Hey everybody what's December thirty. First, I am at the Orpheum theatre in downtown allay with great Joey, Motherfucker, Indians and Tony hinge live the old and pony and also a man, on her also a mat, the what is the name that Arlene Something Concert Hall Phocas enable their place anyway? No, our Lynch Bitter here I'll, tell you who also only looked through my phone here. The point is Portland Oregon for twenty April twentieth, the early English Knit Sir Concert Hall, that's what it is First show sold out, but we added a second show I say sold out. I think there's like sixty random weird tickets that are all over the place. That's how goes with concerts

and that is able twentieth. So show sold out I can show their stilson tickets laughed does can be fun. That's the legal we show because we're getting duties every four twenty and a place that has legal we'd so far, there's nine states. I think that have it recreational California, in Massachusetts, being the most recent one but Portland Oregon in the house, all right. That's it for those. This up brought you buy em the empty watches movement, watches movement, judges are founded on the belief that style shouldn't break the bank that you could get a really nice. Sweet lookin super well made watch at a fraction of what it would cause from a department store because they don't

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production, also to awesome classes and tenth planet Jujitsu. Do not sleep, go get some on a dot com, au and T used to go where Rogan save ten percent off any and all supplements my Yes, today is a good friend of mine, a fascinating guy if you've listened to him on the package before he's one of my favorites easy favorite of many many people using incredibly well read an interesting and he's a hunter in a conservationist- and there is a background I think is back and while my biology and in journalism might be wrong about that. Maybe around the world while our biology stopped, but he knows a lot about it. Give it up for my friend, Mr Steve, Ramallah, Logan experience alive. That's it. You know

the only hunting show ever in the history of mediator or excuse me of Netflix of Mediator. That's out, awesome accomplishment, man, you're the first hunting with sea. I tell every I think that if you want to watch a hunting show like people watch. Honey shows an all these with the fuckin. These guys doing this around I go. Look let loose the size of this book. Man is amazing. Your share is so different from all those other shows like it belongs on something else. Belongs on like the history Chan orders. Every channel thing more mainstream, I'm glad that Netflix picked it MA am delighted. They picked up thirty two episodes I've got to this plugin part right away right away the butter, People often too now they'll, remember the great water a backdoor right now. How many have ourselves, if you guys done all told

but more than seventy five way more than seventy five a thing so there so maritime day we had a little a member one day. Us here Drink to sell we thus have a rap number. Fifty you now is a long time ago, sober way pass at no wow. That's a good question time. We upwards of seventy five to last week's out in the field. There. The hundred there will try little party on the hundred episode, but not by Spain, great man, I mean the Netflix thing is really do I mean it really yokes exposed to a lot of your life. People in those corday instead of starting with seasoned one really put up season? Five and six are Netflix, which are is nice It makes people real curious about the other ones. Theirs. One episode this prior. When my favorite episodes you ever did worry you never shot anything. So one up with you alone, deer hunting and start talking about your dad Yacu his air constituted area, no music,

lotta ambient sound who allowed wind, who makes those choices like those editorial choices that was You know that after one of our uttered a kind of one of our, corridors editors- that's been doing it for a long time ago by the name a guy young. Yet he did that and at first I was what What do you want to do? I know music, there's, no veolan it. And we're pretty veal heavy sound creep to be a voice over the area. The Assyrians, I gotta lotta narrating you now. In fact I was just brightens Mary through the hunt. You not the recently by do lotta narrating and we just given what is no narrating etiquette. Large as it comes down how talkative I'm feelin in the field. You know. And yeah I, whatever forever ease our was suffering of exhaustion or south exhaustion or something

did a lot a rambling and then, when he started caught together, he does want to run it like that with no sound at all. We You are not with no music at all no vote. No voice over night. No, no narration, just all spoken to camera, no other people, their sovereignty. Everything just not rivers, dialogue, but dislike to camera. Addressing we talk. Now about doing one has no words in a bizarre music, maybe eagerly hours working, birdlike excitement to register on GEO Space, and I got the job as well as one of the things that I think is the most ridiculous about a lotta. Honey is hot, terrible music does so in the music. Just like we did, you just go to fuck and what is that a programme that you have on your MAC? What is that? A garage garage band pick up some beats, and I know the name of the system that we use but it's out

it's a searchable database of music like a cattle, museum. The documentary we're doing where we were beginning now to work on when the initial stages of be no haven't, it scored, which has fallen since November messed with you know I think we're very rarely in and tell his authority have. A television show scored, no, usually use library, music are licensed, music and yeah. I was watching West world the other night, which is an awesome, showed you haven't, seen it, but there's one scene with his music start plan on like this, so bad. I hate this. When I'm being manipulated by music during a scene. Like the music. Tell me the what were they about their like man, you're not feel like this isn't making. You feel how we wish it made me feel. Perhaps if we played this you'll feel this way more, yet whether we like it or not, this is the part where you're supposed to feel you know.

Kind of like feelings of nostalgia, and you know like these remorseful feeling that we have no idea how to invoke that an audiences, but this musician did a wonderful job. Some years ago, play this. It's always like violins shit, piano it there's something about that it's just, I feel so manipulated like. I should give in to ride makes Urim accepting deserve this crisis. Acceptance of, like your net you're, giving me a programme showing me something in an hour you'd be there's, always edits going back, and why can't I just accept that others there's a musician. I like quite a bit, nay MIKE opinion. And he's tease out at Abilene taxes, and he has song the day. Taxes sank to the bottom of the sea and a framework the screenwriter we eyes have joked about Sunday. Writing a movie so sad that you could play that song at the end would not feel manipulative

like so sad: it could earn to have the day text saying to the bottom of the sea played in the end of it. What's his name again make a p hints and mica? Am I see a year a h, h, yeah do the young fellow I don't know, she is a young enveloped seems like he's, got a bag ground and drug taking one of those guys. I really he's good musician man. You have some than about music, in movies that we ve just totally. We just totally accept it in television shows music when there's a scene and they want to manipulate. You may want to establish some sort of a feeling. This poster invoke. They just you know. I've been there. The Radiohead out, motorcade computer has a song called exit music for film, because spell I go to their trying to send a message to the licences heads I wonder who was the first? I guess they did did that back in the movies before there was talkies

you know it was all one movies were silently mean, that's how they sort of manipulated you in and they showed the screen and they have on, and that does not determine the night. The Peter in the wool thing nature carried over, but it yet you're gonna on the show, with music. I've had a hard time describing visual stuff. You know like I'll, often see something like a visual treatment for somethin. You know, or worker ever am I I don't know I can't this year. I know when I see it on Oda like, but I can't tell you what I like and what we do, when I listen to music Una editors. Put some Mcgowan. I hear music, I never have said questions, hours have. No. I think it's me it's like this is yes No, yes, no one! I never could be they make it more. You know, I don't know he has had to hear now- Billig. Oh, that's it's too heavy handed or not,

I saw one show where they were: deer hunting and there's electronic music playing, as I who chose this, it might be, trying to create like a weird tension make you upset now now where you want the dear to die at Florence, some of its music there's a guy compilation of hawk setting there five legged hawks. Maybe I can remember wartime, but just bit slab mallard docks up in Canada and the guy sedative else. Bells now risotto fast, obvious choice budget has a great effect. Watchin hawks killed dogs to health bells brother. Now I like it to be is kind of like it to be not obvious, like like us. Are you doing ashore in West Virginia sounded like I'll? Kick it off.

Banjo me right. I hate that kind of decision made in our cliche yeah n n I don't like it to be like electronically to deer hunting you can't. I want to be sort of like not obvious, but right who was it? The decided outer space sounds the way it does like no shows images the outer space to banjo music point: you show images outer space like doo doo in our it's gonna, be like star wars. Symphony time you darling, someone decided in outer space feels like a kind of music of I was doing on about outer space out, want to find something: knit you'd, never ass was outer space he sounding, but in the end, You're like a you know what that's not out of place for outer space, harmonica sure sure. I know when I hear it you'd have to like enlist

bunch of the world's best Herman the players who come up with something spacey net, to watch outer space stuff, I think, like I did redo work for space. Now you could do that, but that all the effort, all the adders, used all that music off. For when I got a cartoon Australia thing, that's true right, what's Australia soundly eyes right degree do but you may netflix it's it's. Scott Lot emails. Some people kind of stumbling on the show is vertically make a show by hunting and you wanna in your head. You like people that, like the hunt would have found it. But an you hear from people Hunter asses off and the like are discovered. The show its and you realize this all people like all the untapped millions that are out there yeah there's a lot of people like me before I restarted hunting that are interested in it. They think it's interesting and I think the gateway drug for them, as those Alaska shows

does exist and shows, alas, frontier in the mountains and chose this show. These people, while our school year now and then I think the next step- is to switch off the sportsman chain or something yeah, it's the intricate, but you can it turned off really easily you could go to the wrong, I show and it could be boring or you can stop. Bull upon, like I would say about uncharted the gym Shockey show of using seen that show a great great show it to me. It's really a honey show its show about culture, trial uncultured about a really curious, open, my the guy who loves to go to different cultures, and he there. You know, I need the premises, he goes there too hot, but he's he's travel Some really really incredible places and film. Some amazed Did you see the one where he went to warm? I forget what river was in Africa, where these people have a significant problem with crocodiles eating people. Now I didn't about artists people about them.

Everybody in the villages like Miss in an arm chair, a hole in your head. This everybody had been jacked and why he, was there a woman yet taken now, this crazy watch, these people, wailing cry and sob, whose roots we really tat you and I was enough. Seventh grade, we had a teacher name, MRS Merkel,. I know she's alive murmur. She lived down the mosquito river she's in the peace or in one day look at this one or through the has on your kid, and he realized layers we're in one day she brought in a photograph of her eye bluebells or fear her fiance at the time of his body after it had been removed from a crock our stomach, to show us now to set that to set the tone

times I also when I was in ninth grade there was a teacher name, Mr Right, and he wanted me to re, blew a shock on farm bluing on Sadly, the coding unshackled red Blue it How do you do that? What is it the chemical did you strip an end is like a comical treatment. Bluing blue Gonna fall out of fear of whatever the usb blue and ways to set seem like for what you could do back. Then you don't do now give a shock unto a kid brought shock and school gave me the shock, and I took a homely blurred- nordic paid me back with what he gave me a twenty five caliber semi automatic, hang on in a sweat sock at school. I brought home in my dad palisaded from you. Never again. Why? So? The teacher gave you a handgun there and what the fuck is teacher don't give me that yeah. Why twenty five caliber Semi Otto in a sweat sock as payment for balloon is shocking,

the transaction all happen. Respect for that in Michigan, my high school, So when I say this here, she had a photo of guys body count crocodile it's like does the the Sunday Logo Non Forty three now lemme forty two times have changed radical yeah, I'm instituted the rule? You couldn't have firearms school Goin down and talk and Mr Batman in Vienna, hay and only then oh yeah. Of course I mean no, you guess haunt everything, so you can stick. I got a new long argued haven't new car in the parking lot, though, why? How now from our committee, we interviewed a guy who used to get on his school bus with his shotgun holy shit in my Martha's vineyard of all places and he would get on the school bus with a shotgun wow

So why is it so you get hot dogs after school blow holds this guy old. He's Vietnam better. What happened? What happened started? Shooting people had school for the forgotten that now that we can, as that I've been talking, but this unstable out what happened to go and postal. What at the post office figure out how the post office get it together Why did it stop? Have now gone many real? How many chaotic was it was a huge issue. There is a game called postal does video game that you could play in the early days of video game. Called postal doesn't the thing they probably couldn't do today, but those events, Your game based on mass shootings, we'd go to a post office, just fuck everybody, but was removed. I know. Of course I remember that, but remember worthier actually like me, more than two years.

Can I say it's called running with scissors? Is the company that made it look that this is the fucking game You just run around this guy has shown and people and chop a mob and got him down with his terrible graphic this is the early days of gun or excuse me. Video games not less like my six year old did the pictures, but this The game in this is like the original grant s daughter Otto. Really. How can you just go over the roof light that shitty ass physics yeah mean going poem store, was a thing that people used to say all the time? But if you said he went postal, take a tie. I know that now you know what you think. People use use it as being got real mad. I think it's a murder nine over also, but once it became in the lexicon. You know you could say go here. You know he wouldn't pulsed all about me. Not. You know right,

sending them the Czech, but you could say gone postal cause you're forty two, but could say pulse of your twenty to twenty two, the Oda. Any idea. What you're talking about something happened? It it ended. The phenomena What are the post office do, but what I find lacking is what was based on two things: three monotony inbox outbox in box, Bow Box. I mean how many postal How may know how many exam ass going over there at Post offices, James Bond, apparently this issue Nineteen. Eighty six, ninety ninety one, ninety one again to events in ninety three men took a thirteen year. I am that it came back strong, two thousand six baker, city

organ two thousand six. So two thousand six it. It seems like those in the last postal that says that was based around these ones and nineteen. Eighty six is where the term started. So they probably just a novelty thing like one person, did it and then a bunch other people. While I wonder, if put is it there's a disproportionate amount of mass shootings in post offices compared to other warehouse, jobs or other, because he's been mass shootings at work for, for some reason that distinction yet put on Post office said thirty. Five people eleven incidents that is high its fairly but when you are dealing with the number of people that come in and now the post office, I rate, but I would just it's one of those. Weird things like why? Don't you see that about Jiffy Lube? There's no Jiffy Loop, Mass shootings,

now gag answer that I bet there's people who studied carefully I read the bone. Columbine read a book. No, I didn't, but I just got a book for one a kid who survived met him. He was with Maryland Manson at this podcast. We did for the election night, the end of the world podcast, and I gave me a copy of his book. He survived. They came up to him right before the shooting. They said: hey man, we, like you, get the fuck out of here real and he laughed and guns started. Isn t he survived. Let me get gotta have on your show and went out my together. I am no known. On the other hand, by me, the gathering columbines good boatmen, these fires, psychology of of in a second, Jim background context of shooters, it's so good, but it's an intense phenomenon in other. Does it

We did to North America more than anywhere mean you start to see a lot more mass shootings all across the world, but a lot of them are religious related. But it's it's! It's a very this. It's a very confusing one, two people, because so many factors involved you now and it's one that gets lumped in with a gun culture is a tweet. Did I put on my twitter page. While back- and I say this- a mental health problem disguises the gun problem new, and I really really believe that I just I don't think you can tribute there, so many guns in this country, and so few mass shooting through so many guns in the number of guns, exceeds the number of people and the amount of mass shootings in relative Obviously there are horrific and terrible, but relatively it when you too, that it to the amount of people that we have its relatively small I think the the kind of person that can engage in something like that. There's somebody factors and you can't blame it on guns like blaming forks on people.

Fat doesn't make sense. I, when you look at the tendency to wanna demonic, like grass bond a somewhat easy solutions for stuff is something people go to because it's like a scenes comparable in our view, a go you look like a really complex thing. We saw so much this during the the round of the presidential election. Worry you to make a point. Fast. You look at something: that's terrific, complex and is not just that you want the magic solution, but you will kindly, but what could be pot? What possibly could be done and other people move in the direction of move in the direction The second amendment is also this agree. It sort of an agreement people have been discussing it like gas guns, are a problem and that guns are a problem, because these things happen. They all start talking about guns and then the it we get lumped into two groups lumped in Nepal but at a pro second amendment

ago, not announce, not guns, and then the people that say, while those crazy people with guns, they know Obama while the famous expressed when the same statement that he said during his Illustration is how people so attach their guns and end the secular men. People got so man. And our people means are like they cling and religion and guns. It's you know. You just look at the sheer number of people who actually have guns in this country. It is a little crazy means that the volume is very, very high there. They are a number of firearms and the thing going, it's me as they dont it's not to stop making them they're making guns every new a lot less. Now since the election really. Yeah, it is perhaps friends or so convinced that in our like, like mostly on the contrary, what he likes it or not. We are convinced that the current was gonna win a bed.

I got it. I got one four and in particular the one I bought a bunch of stocks for company in a firearm companies They they talk about here after the election, because people relaxed they didn't work. Both stockpiling ammunition warrant, worry about star bomb, and we are all talking about is like that than the that. The stock everything is self perpetuating where they are but like when I was I'll look kid. You know in Christmas stocking? We were given bricks, a twenty two shells, you, try to read, hunt smart, we not squirrels unravels twenty two's, just like you. All the time you shells and we could go anywhere- get twenty shells Abbadie mine, one of our camera guy, as he grew up on a ranch and at the ranch store, they had two items chew so tins to chew. In twenty two shells, the you could get on credit at the ranch, toward the racist or was it like had a very low? when an inventory, but that's like how just pervasive twenty two shells were. Now, one Obama Babo one

your nose in use a twenty two. Twenty is not a go to caliber fur fur, do inflicting harm on other human beings city. Us not a great the very small small game round, but the hysteria about guns, draw people to gobble up twenty two ammo So all this and then it was you can find twenty two ammo and not being able to. Finally ices bodies little boxes of fifty right. If you go, oh it's hard to buy an enormous and you got in the need we wanted to buy all you could get because those in your head, you couldn't get it. Need see a thousand of them and black one by it everyone's buying it, and I think it was self perpetuating Now I got shitload twenty two, because I had no need for matters that I felt in the same light. Does this thing that lies in access to and I want to access to it. You know in any more came from, and I think that now off,

the last eight years there's been justice does have been as a great arming of America. I feel exley people were worried by having their rights. Infringed does like Does that at least now and that community of which, on a part there's a sigh of relief. You know he added. Rate relaxation among sports when they think that Trump is gonna. Come in. You known, protect the second amendment rights, but Allow me to give you have you worried about private land? Are all gland yeah. That's it think that I'm really watch and I'm curious about it. You know at this point in the talks right. The rhetoric Saellvertu now. Before whether someone border against it for against trumps victory. I think now, like the responsible thing to do in my mind that the realistic response will think. Do my mice

there are so many are knows its approach. The administration with an open mine, I'm not made like now make ok talks over Alec. What's gonna, what's gonna happen like what sort of things arenas d come and I don't know if anyone really knows the answers- that an like in my outward public, facing way I dont generally talk about politics outside of issue who's that relate to wildlife issues that relate to owners and fishermen right. I got kind of focus then, because politically I'm a mass and I'm all over the place, I have no use for that no you don't either. I have no use for, like classic definitions of conservatives. Liberals are just that that it makes no sense to me, like I don't get. Draw my viewpoints from going and looking in finding out I'm supposed to feel about in order to be like a consistent, partisan, individual last January, though verb you are, if there's a for, I love you

I this kind of a quick run on public lance, so the federal government has the whole owns millions and millions of acres of land in the who ass primarily in the western? U S and there's a hand, different land holding agencies? the bureau. Land management manages lands the. U S vision, while their service manages lands to the refuge system. So when those boys, is in Oregon took over the while their refuge there. That was I was actually young. U S! Fish and wildlife service life and wasn't be land. You have national forward told land national for service, which is the USDA are said to be a lemme yeah. Of course you have you, no states on public Lambeth, but the federal Land management agencies, of which there are several hold deed, billions acres, land and in a wrap it, owned by the american people and its represent. Through me, my of his report,

and through a trust and trust, is administered by the federal government on your bath. That's our public lands where, where people recreate another large holder public lands. The national park serves dimension. Alan in law? Forty, eight, you don't you don't point now a park fish on national park, land Journey, haunt National Forest Land Bureau, Land Management, Lamb refuge, land and there's a push right now. To the people feel that vision that the federal government should be dump in a lot of federal land. Now that the for what reason way ass it s arm get out so people get frustrated with dealing with the federal bureau accuracy and the reason it is is generally the feds are pretty is the gross generalization generally. The feds are parties are much slower and exploitation.

Natural resources, less responsive to demand for exploitation of natural resources. Van state agencies are so federal lands in older their day. In exercising the will of the american people. Federal land agencies are. Not as easy to deal with when it comes to mining in development and other issues. A state agencies are so people who are who want to see a more readily exploitable system in place for fur, developers, minors loggers others. There was people able more readily make a buck off the land they like see these lands. The federal land they like to see him go into private hands like this, I'm going to state hands because no they're, not either way a girls, they go into private hands or state lands. They're going to bed much easier time doing this

active industries in development on those lands. So that's what that's like under the surface, what's goin on in France is like the guy you're one of the reasons the guys it took over the refuge. The malware while they refuge in Oregon more their gripes? Was they run cattle on public property right, so they pay a fee that, One of those families is heavily involved in running cattle on federal land in a pay a fee for are below the going rate took too run cattle on public land. So this what you'd go pay a branch or if you want to run cat on his land, they pay about ten percent of that by some estimations to run on public land and federal land managers Dont want to renew those contracts because again because people think about other The other uses for the land or whatever they want to do with it. It causes intense amount of a serious matter, frustration people, so if you will want to dump lands now iron Donald Trump speed

last January so almost a year ago in LAS Vegas, and he will stand forty yards away from me and was tat- in about the that. He has no desire to see them, he has no desire. To see our public lands privatized. However, he's. The one might argue kind of my name. Only he's he's look, I'm he's not a deadly hasn't demonstrated any sense of being beholding. The party orthodoxy I mean he's like he takes it issued by it. Stance on things and doesn't really care for how things are done at the party level, however, his party is very much. I know they ve. It's it's right in their beds, warned the planks platform is right in their agenda to see us dump federal property does, offload vaterland tissue offload american public glanced into into state or private holdings, so

I hope that he has good. I hope he has lock and resisting that is in fact, if in backing is still standing by that statement. They made, I don't think, most people, I understand how unique need this situation is that we have this these massive swaths of public land. No, they don't that this is one of those things were it, and even the people. Do you people that? No don't really conceptualize like I grew up, I grew up. Two and a half miles south of this. Southern terminus of Manatee National Forest in Michigan, a significant portion of our outdoor activities took place on their national forest. We took it like it fell from like our perception of it was that it fell from the sky. It was it it just existed. Just they had always existed. We took it for It granted like how you look at the sun and, like the sun, does there you know something they even people,

public lands, users, don't often don't take time. How is it that I am able to beyond this land right? Why Margaret I never considered it around to hang out with you with, but I'm saying I hung out on public lands, it wasn't for it wasn't so ass to meet. Twenty five years to start being like no harm and now what is now the glands? You speak out yet that you hold d like the as an american citizen at in most ways as a global citizen, because our national for our lands, are open. Anyone, american or not bright,. As an american citizen, you hold deed to hundreds of millions of acres of land. Now there are conditions to your use. You think you can and cannot do, but your for the Rome camp, haunt fish look at the stars whatever your store narrowly wealthy, and these things it came

oh like they came on various ways. Private most influential person increasing the publicly system. We have now Theodore, Roosevelt and. He was controversial in his time for creating our put for helping to create our public land system he had the same resistance when he was doing it from India, three from extractive industry. He had the same resistance that we have now to public glance, and everyone. Chiseled is based on a mountain because everyone like now everyone- Every politician would like that making himself to rosville right right. He's like one of those do that you can just be like, like Teddy Roosevelt Gap, positive feelings, positive feelings, because it has achieved Rushmore way this was a guy who's like a radical. We see a little bit of those Reagan during the Reagan administration during that time, where he was actually President Museum, massively polarizing figure people hated him mean there is still so much going on during the iron Contra hearings that, whereas, like oh, my god who is his ass,

All that we let run president the attic around the time lag behind he died, he had a sort of ascended, the political haven't, yeah we're you can't make Kennedy enjoys opposition. I mean Kennedy barely one day election YAP, it's it's debated whether we actually want clean fuels aid all these votes, one up and Lake Michigan. Well, there's a lot of fuckin shenanigans going out that election with the mafia is a big part of how we got elected. So but later in life, we like to look and say now, there's a guy right and so rules about creating our national forest system. Yeah. He was considered a radical yeah. We are using this outlandish. I d, like you, mean to tell me you're, just gonna, take huge shown a land. They could earn some Individuals in extraordinary amount of money right now,. And just set it aside for Jews. Joe blow future person to enjoy then even at a point where he went on to say at one time that that he was doing it.

For those in the womb of time. Well,. Is at the time you were arguing like ok, if public lately It is here that we are the kind obtains it is wildlife in America's publicly owned. Does not like me countries not like that, like while leaving you ass his public beyond EU. So dear so dear stand on your neighbors place, you as not a federal sue citizen, but you As a citizen of your state owned net near that person can control Access to a but has not, as dear he can prevent you from going up to execute go on his lamp. He has no more right that dear than you do, generally speaking, so People said the roles but like how are you boy, in industry all these lands and how are you block and industry from get near the water, the wildlife? So we can sell the wildlife back. We commercial hunting, yours if you're, if it's for the people, give it to us

And that's when he had his line he's like the others for the it's for those still in the womb of time. That's deep! Now! That's the people like em off shore, somewhat tragedy, today dude he had a thing one time we had a timeline here he had dropped. There's a there is an end when he could. He kept a stone. Shit and a national forest. I mean that for every day that goes in office. I think he saved about some like fifty thousand square miles land or something else certain my land for everyday. I could be wrong with that, but in a certain model and for every day is an office and it there's a thing you did the midnight forests where he had a deadline that expire. Like his ability to keep drawing up big chunks, a national forest was set to expire at a certain time, are midnight and he was up. The last minute midnight with a couple AIDS, Marken up maps making giant national forest? Now we celebrate of all. Why right, may now really media. Also national part B were pissed, I'm sure Mineral resources help is today timber sooner but

All these big decisions, like These decisions happen that we create a public land system in America, like the decision happens. Generally, people looking go allow what foresight it goes insane idea that you would have a country is prosperous tsars. You know with our GNP three fifty million citizens right to have the second. This thing is huge is us we still have an inn, tap sweet of megaphone, no one else pulls out off so we ve accomplished lava than now, and people just get pissed because they want to be able to do so. While the amount of theirs I entered, that want to make money when they want to make money- and then someone tells you know they get, look at pissy and in the small ones of them, and I will know I did. I would never detract from their intelligence the smart ones of them right

then walk and away they go like is this law? Why is the law this way? And what can we do about? It and right now those folks those goals I have an idea that The solution to the problem is that we would begin undoing. The great work of people like Roosevelt four pin and Elbow Leopold in these seminal american figures that we would we would on? Do their work in and go back to a system where, where these landscapes are privatized,. People have never been Yellowstone and even if you're not a hunter, you should go once you anyway right. That's the point. I have probable that. Do you actually, but it's it's maybe just forget about hunting. Just a fact, We have this immense state park. Did you go to Why won't took my kids there the summer and

We hung out with Buffalo standing there, but there was a buffalo. There was a hundred yards away, which is looking at these giant huge prehistoric animals get as a great place for introductory wildlife viewing, We took a allow selfies without because the Elk, because the Wolf population, it is increasingly else on the alcove decided looked as one spot, hang out the Fuckin visitors centre stage by the visitors centre. There's a Coca cola machine is event. Machine and right next to the vending machine is Fuckin Elk, just children laying down there. I mean they have zero fear of people. It's amazing how they become a sort of acts. Made habituated adding habitues work, which is. Finally, we look at that. There's a problem identified is most of them I love you also. In my perspective, that is, as I felt it does. What I do for food and in in enjoyment, which is too hot,

I look at it from a grand while live thing, and I look at it as it serves the purpose of being dislike, fantastic wildlife sanctuary. Everyone, like you know, are our our mutual friend dog even on his farm right he has established, like a sanctuary area like on his farm, a place where you don't go, there's always a spot. We're dear going don't get harassed in that area like a self imposed sanctuary, and so you have Yellowstone provides that. But if identified this sort of thing an idea. I've been working on called Yellowstone Syndrome, no is where people Americans, some some in their only idea about wildlife and wildlife, politics and wildlife management come from the Yellowstone story that they went up having a difficult time I'm understanding, wildlife, wildlife management in situations that are outside of a national park setting which is to say they don't have a very good green. Ass by the inevitable conflicts?

Gonna arise. Between wildlife and society? and that's a large chunk of ground, we just do not have those sorts of conflict, but what kind conflict we talk a lot like, for instance, a thing has been very differ. Very vexing for wildlife managers is what happens to what what happens to Buffalo when they leave National, the Yellowstone national part. Just The tobacco bundle on the alternation goes to get sense for how Revolutionary that idea was, you know there was the indian wars weren't even over when they made Yellowstone Yellowstone. Now we We're still battling organ Indians on the great plains. When yell someone to effect Perfect Yellowstone was a park when the Nez per nurse were chase through by the? U S, army and actually killed a couple tourists in Yellowstone right as some of the buildings that are still near

see you when you are yellow and got shot by, Indians who are engaged in a war with the? U S army. While it was like a It was ass if they had even in the west, have even been in some ways that the Centre West had even been settled. We may in they made national park and minerals vote went there are no other commemoration. There was no went there to applaud it, so it is essential. Let me just. It was just an outlandish ideas so far ahead of its time, but with the out like the buffaloes situation, for instance, how it's kind of how Service colored, the broader conversation would be also as one of the few places were theyve worthy animal Buffalo or a bison, you know, they're they're, Linnaean name is bison bison. Some people say bye.

And Bison bison, as opposed to bison bison at the at the baskets but Buffalo. A buffalo, I M very controversial the calm you not cool, become Buffalo. Really nice was calm bison. We hang out with old time evoke they use Kayo, yeah yeah, we'll Kyle. So today yeah we're combo arena Dan floors, burgle yard malls, going good work on this continent have now you know, you're combine motel, so it's. What you also know the few places were buys always existed now at a time I'm the ones there were fence than fed, but they ve always been and you're than you have there? Is you have age? ethically peers, strange? There's been no cattle, intro aggression in Animals is only a handful of herds in the? U s that, were there men some amount of catalan progression. You can't see usually but their oftentimes,

there's some new MAC scalded. Don't you some the decay does that do not, and yet stone ones. Do not they ve, never interpreter bending inner bread with cattle, so their valuable? Now I don't know Science is a few thousand of them in the park in this those pile up in one the things they like to do when it's snow piles. That I believe the park They go out West Yellowstone, which won the primary entrance points into the into the park and no go out and Gardner in the late at the gardener entrance in the late winter. That would prove that would be fine, probably maybe be kind of fine if it weren't for a couple issues. Theirs it there's a livestock disease called the losses and it's a eurasian disease. Ozone is, and I need you know we all know everything of diseases has been native or non NATO, but it's a non native disease called Bruce losses and birth losses causes cattle. You causes us, heifers accommodates, hasn't me with

but just one young, so heifers unbuckled, as you have in your first- have guenever. First calf. It causes have her to abort their foetus. Now they ve gotten Bruce losses eradicated from cattle. Its generally want to state is getting Bruce a loss of cases they have to pay for testing. So it's expense to get our cows test above you have Bruce losses in your statement that producers gotta pay. The testing to test the major, not Bruce losses, positive, welcome, a long ago Pass Bruce losses to the bison. When the bison leave the park, they carry Bruce losses with them and could reintroduce it into cattle, words, though, that hasn't there's no known case of that happening. I dont hasn't spread their wild animals. The priority we spread. His animals eat their own after birth, Nellie after birth of other animals.

That's interesting thing why they you throw some folks either. I propose that my wife, she was not down at all, but I've got friends taken a center. I got some bodies their pulls Blair wise percent is made into pills, the other some gal dries up in prison capsules, for you have heard of people cooking it with carrots yeah. I wanted Kirk some man, but there are thing, is when my wife, I swore up down the thousand drink, the breast milk in August body, the puts brow smoking is coffee in everyday man. You know and do me and I couldn't go near. Does you were a diaper to know by his like you're going you if he's gonna have coffee on what when women are breastfeeding? Have, though, bottles in the fridge in area? Yet he does their grandmother, those put in this coffee Jesus drink it. I tried it just a taste, but I felt like I was stealing from my kid. I felt I gotta be a cannibal is one thing. As my to draw a line that region will you eat a monkey yeah? I know when horrible did you have a real bad one?

so bad and eat it by it, was like emotionally complicated for me, but so we get back to that. Yet a brutal losses deal. I'm, trying to get China Zone Yellow the untried, explained the Yellowstone Syndrome, so the bruise allows the steel. Is a real issue for some people, so it conceivably a buffalo could leave Yellowstone give birth the after birth could be. They are Kalkhi that after birth nibble resource near and like everything in like everything we're talking about. This is so there's so many caviar and complicated things such as EL kept Bruce losses but outcome and go as they please write so the minute Buffalo or bison, when he leaves else national part. If he will in the Montana, now is not a fence right is that he does now, but when he crosses the line He goes and be in a wild animal being native wildlife to being livestock

so he goes and being the property of under the administration of the National Park Service to the Ministration of Montana Department of Livestock native Annabelle, now how does it work those of the native animal crosses over to private property? Is you only animals that happens to so coyoats? ass would ring. Grizzly bears black bears Bighorn Sheep Elk meal dear wait till dear moose, they leave their wildlife buffalo leaves he becomes errant livestock. Why Therefore, every year there's a the others, a perennial story: every year, where a bunch of Buffalo leave the park and git Rounded up by the departmental livestock and sent to quarantine ass usual sent off to slaughter there. They just kill the bunch of em, they killed two thousand of them and they did. They get a lot of

better place cranks our lot animal suits us like their eyes, thrown out these humongous numbers of animals. They ve gone in every year. You wanna haven't quite a few animals in the park. So but it's a thing now, people point out this, because Elk have Bruce losses and Elk. Calving in proximity to cattle and there and is, as we know that does not like ironclad cases of cattle of L Trans, hitting Bruce lost to cattle people wondered the wire bison picked on and why them in one thing might be set to say that We got this is generally true of wildlife in Amerika. I think there is a brief period around nineteen hundred when we had no, maybe about seventy five of left in the. U S, people got very uses. Sort of like not being Buffalo vice and

Now this becoming like and a player again, is that the animals becoming a plague and that we now have. We are down to seventy five. We got a five hundred thousand in the. U s now, ninety four percent of more privately owned, but we have a pirate of a half million buffalo in his country, so but we got really use them not being around and saw a thing like this additive thing like I think, if there had been long peer when there were no elk and then all of a sudden, someone said: hey, guess what we're bringing these big ass, undulates back, the Eet tons of stuff and their huge and they might have a disease. Who's gonna. Let tens thousands of cut loose across landscape you open up in arms, were they were used to cause Elk are always on the ground. So that's why Buffalo Recoveries Benzel hard discount colleague, you're try to sell people on this new thing, even though historic. It's hardly knew that they ve been around, but there's there was a period of.

In all of the century, not quarter century when it wasn't an issue, so it's really hard to get livestock interests in private land. Owners around these areas to unanimously get on board, with the idea that we're gonna have animals, Roman out of the park that are has been proven to happen that will get into Your corral and kill your horse or, take out a school bus. If it hits m or possibly transmit disease, and the big thing that people dont really talk about, but which is a huge issue, is impact grazing rights they entail cradle cattle. Raise and get back to kill the horse, yet Gore, they Gore stuff. They just. Go into the horse. A stable fuck amounted. It's happened when they re rotten, balloon crazy, yet a rotten the summer and a boy in the bulls get very. They get real fired up, and

fighting. They are too with with the Yellowstone ones. You deal with animals that are a bitch waited, so it's only been like you know. It's been a hundred years. He can't yeah mill. Hunt in the part by animals have gotten habituated humans. We liked look yell, don't think you're, seeing something caught a natural, but you're actually seen something pretty unnatural, because that landscape was hunted for twelve thousand years last hundred years notwithstanding so what the people always hundred yellowstone the unnatural thing as these animal, the lash more comfortable being habituated humans is unusual, but we go there, but this what animals were like em, like you draw linebacker. When humans arrived in the new world, that was one of the more fascinate things about Dan Floris on your podcast, where he was talking about Buffalo and that one point in time, the Indians or the native Americans. When they had guns and they had horses, they were on their way to extra painting. The

follow on their own year before the market. Hundreds came in a pleasant, so incredibly controversial idea. That was it yet, as a controversy idea now put four again, not talk, book that our role in and I have a book American Buffalo about the history, the animal and in My own personal experiences, hunting for the animal and finding a school of one that I found at Aksarben Journey that led me down, but in working on that book. I spent quite on reading the work of damp lorries and he was and tore mine in graduate school and Any wrote this very interesting piece called eyes and ecology, bison diplomacy and what he looked at was used rifle was there a period when autumn. When planes tribes. Again, european native Americans had actually reached equilibrium with the bison herds,

and he argues that there was not that they had not achieved equilibrium that, even if that one of them one of the points he makes many points of sale, I don't sell. This is p short. It's it's a very large piece of scholarly work, but one of these talks about is just that. The introduction of the horse. Had humongous impacts on the animals on Buffalo for have reasons: grazing competition guy, so enormous heart, herds While horses and the horses distribute so you trace in enforcing we that is as well. You can trace horses in to native american tribes on the great plans and elsewhere they go back to the Pueblo revolt so that the Spanish concur stores lost a lot of their animals in the end are traded up. The east earn face and up the western face, the real He's never distributed all around and saw year when,

Get this idea in your head of of em of planes warrior right mounted on horseback hunting for Buffalo. That was, a very distinct phenomenon that didn't last. Nearly didn't last, as long as with the. U S has been a country like it did not last long between the internet, of the horse in the Indian worse, they wanted like largely rim, removing free roaming, Thomas tribes off off the great plans? It is then, last long even those became the iconic image of the mountain planes Hunter and what argues. Is the advent of the hall change hunting practices so much up until that point, you had tribes that were, a were partially or largely agrarian coming out of it. Mississippi River Valley very River Valley, there would grow crops.

They were during the summer. When the buffalo herds were gathered into tremendous gatherings during the breeding season, they would do trips, they would do buffeloni trips once they had the horse, You had all these cultures Turning the nomadic cultures there, Have it your boy and a horse and just follow the herds and it was a tremendous amount of pressure put on these animals to support that amount. You tribes migrating out onto the great plains and riding over those resources and I think he was one- is graduate students later looked at this peace, where, when Lewis and Clark did their big westward journey In the early eighteen hundreds, the places where they, talk about seeing the greatest amounts or there is blown away by how many buffalo there are seeing were generally fought, fell upon. Sort of no man's land areas between warring tribes, so the buffers of Zone buffers of traditional hunting zones like we're the black,

Feeding the Sioux met up that the edge habitat There was where you had long animals and work and exploited by people so used. Two cities like regional extirpation of the animal and then firearms. What was another big blow? were even outside of, why hide hundreds just showing up, but just those those those european technologies of horse gone. You seeing a steady depletion that would have not an end in a scene. Like the resource, would not? Alas, it ain't. You two had the same outcome what was interesting about his paper was it. He was saying that the early settlers are the early explorers, of the United States and the fifteen. Sixteen hundred they didn't talk about Buffalo know. Someone the Spanish, the Spanish go through places, and they would they would name wildlife. Now, like some Spanish came through the other In the end, the floor is on the first guises doubtful in Florida

the top everything they see right down to possums guy there not describing buffalo The other describing everything else, the English when their to underline they're, talking about Buffalo so there's sightings in was now new Orleans Cabezas aid. I ran into Buffalo around. What's now Houston their sightings, Buffalo was now wash in Dc Simon and Daniel Boon figures like TAT were hunt them around. The sight of Asheville in Memphis. They were all away to the EAST coast, it seems, are only a handful of states, the ESA point time didn't have any my home state of Michigan doesn't seem like there any for a law. Time, people thought that there had been Buffalo in New York, but it turns out the the evidence for them paleontological and archaeological record is to schools. Both the schools have cultural markings on them, and it seems they were the same way that the

me in and Joe here will like on an animal and bring the head home that they might have been just think someone had trophies. There are traded reverences nor their formal remains from the animals in the art, but most places Adam now the mound builders, so you have always like Mississippi and cultures. Long, the Mississippi River, no higher revised called the mound builders. They they may these giant effigy mounds. That people, realize they were there until we had aeroplanes to get above and see the snakes and enact serpents endear and all these creatures they are building on earth mounds that were so big that guy's would like live around the mountain, never recognise it for what it was until they can look at it from above things with satellite imagery. They never built Buffalo mounds, but once we emptied- and this is one argument scouts to pack argument- once smallpox and other diseases carried off ninety percent of native Americans. Ninety, that's an estimate. Cheese made people say that

I think it's a prodigal like the scar The consensus is it is that it's in that ballpark. Wouldn't what are the numbers? The estimate, the actual physical, but you know I've seen a blot on orders. I think that there was a number that was floating around four while ten million, but a member lobby criticise a number has been high. I don't know what the fashionable number is now, but ninety percent approximately. Why down my diseases from the Europeans and that this, was primarily responsible for this explosion in the population, the Buffalo. So that's why? When the Spanish would go into places, this is a theory. Now the spanish we're going places first, contact like people's traipse area. They would go to places and they were describe village after village after village after village k, and they never talk about Buffalo, the English, while later, though, down somehow go down the Mississippi River he'll see shit for people, but, as Buffalo crawling everywhere

so in another issue, and I think we will talk about changing agricultural practices- that slash and burn agriculture was becoming used and slash and burn agriculture was conducive to does to the spreading to it was conducive to Buffalo execrated, open spaces. For them That's another thing. People look at a slash maharajah, but either way that its proposed that the apex of that species was at the moment we found the fashionable number used be sixty million and that was that was put forth by Ganem. You know Dodge City doubts it again. Is the Goddess naval Ganem, Colonel Dodge, Colonel Dodge Architects of Europe? as how he came up with it. But Colonel Dodge is the one that floated the idea that there were sixty million Buffalo the fashionable number is enough, ready to you here. Thirty two nine year, forty million and people say that that was that that was,

extraordinary amount of those animals and we witness the at its apex and at other times in the history of the continent no ties of the natural history of our continent? There weren't near them any the animals tat such a fast then in concept I never heard it before I'd. Only her That there was a giant numbers of them and that the Europeans came over, the Americans wiped amount because we wanted the skulls and the fur we wiped out the tail end of em. So if you get like the end of the week, once you get to the end of the civil war. You know at that point is maybe fifteen million and that's when it was an, it was an one thousand, eight hundred and seventy one and one thousand eight hundred and seventy two, that the what you might call the commercial scale harvest. Of the animals happen, and it happened in the south was called Southern heard, round. Eighteen, seventy one, eighteen, seventy two

in areas surrounding Dodge city water is in a large population of them, and then it took ten years by one thousand eight hundred and eighty two you can find one. So the last big slaughter happened around City Montana, and it happen- when the railroad the railroad made two mile city, the northern persists, made it mile city in provided a re way to get hides the market and they did the last big kill and killed about a million of not there an end a year later, roles came out to Madeira North Dakota, their thereabouts hired I'd in scoured the crop countryside hunting. Through the carcasses of rotting animals. Try define one last one. While so they could save him. Now he wants to get one. There was a pity he got to think about that guy he kills one and does a war dance around it contents is that of others,

her describes. Wardens who holler Dance Malaga Hutton show so, but then that a fact ahead on he then went became them Influential conservationists, we read in the countryside struck him somehow, but as a young man yeah, he was a man. I missed it there's gotta, one left say, found one. He got one killed it. Why the Mai Dana North Dakota Border there, and then you know one on- do all these kind of amazing things, but that was that was the. That was the big slaughter. What what's cool bought at the time that worked out Photography has just come out pure start have portable cameras. There's a photographer named Ella Hoffman had been sent. Doubt. The mile sitting here she took a lot of images of those hide honours. Working the last big hurt. The last big shoot and then shortly after that there are some number animals laughed

and any led a bunch of. Are they allowed much planes Indians to Lee when the reservations and they went a little bit of mop up, but yet Surely shortly thereafter, there's a guy named Hornaday who kind of writing letters around trying to find out who had one of these things land around, because it all fall into private hands. You know those guys pop buffalo hunters would kill him. Holy shit. Does like none left in some guys actually went out caught a couple, those Ganem Buffalo Jones down in TAT, assistant that went on last sold. Copper calves raise the monarch, cow's milk and that's how worthwhile We even have some now now it turns out. No one knew this. Turns out. There are several hundred in Canada that no one knew about real data about a much much less and how they get to Mexico. They pay we always roamed into Mexico. Now the first book now that a European ever laid eyes on was in what now Mexico City

it was in it was in. Who is that who is there that the emperor there you know Joe was I do name the the aztec leader, Mexico to National, to not Kevin? What he? What years? What your document on the fifteen onwards, Cortez found? one in Mexico City of those in a zoo, Montezuma, try saying that the city of two nonchalant? Ok, so two thousand and one which is in which is now Mexico City they had, he had one in a zoo, the first one described by european while, but he was here miles away from their native range. They had one as yet all kinds, yet a menagerie. He had all the animals that he'd collected from throughout the third domains so does? first one described by European, but he didn't realize at the time that it was from far north there, but they did strayed down into

into Sonora than this. Well a ball. We appeal stew, today we have more by great slave lake. You know they extend well up into can so there is a number of somebody who Cottonwood Buffalo. Some people accept the idea that there's sub species by narrow I'm up bison bison at the Basque, only eyes and bison bison planes, bison would bison there's morphological differences. They look different there the Boreal forest, there were hundreds that we didn't know about. I know some of those populations are still and now in Canada, so having a leg like like in all, things with Americans. We have an american centric view of everything we have an american centric view of wildlife will say, there's only seventy five left, I feel like our canadian neighbours or oftentimes being like you know what quite handle it quite as badly as you folks did Oh yeah.

In all its alarm bizarre picture. I came in what the hell we get. What are you gotta sound subject? Dance floor is our membrane near public lands, yet Oh Yellowstone Syndrome, Helstone broke, Bruce losses, so does the train his background, the bustle story as export and work If you follow wildlife, politics is a conversation happening in places or allow Ask her, which the hold a long story, but how is having there is happening, Alaska as having a montanans having an Wyoming as having in the decoders, which would be do we welcome. Are we gonna welcome this animal back onto the landscape as a free roaming, wild animal Like all of our other earlier mentioned. Now this country, we have an intact suite of megaphone, like

we have lost. We might have damn few of something. We have lost any of our large mammals, kind of my motto during the colonial period, Western Europe having lost five or six species, a large mammals, the oryx, many we haven't, we have lost any large mammals. We can pretty close to. Her they, of course, with the Buffalo in particular, and we thought we lost birds without the passenger pigeon we lost diary bill, woodpecker and ill. We lost many things of many kinds of aid, not many, but we ve lost substantial numbers. Things we have lost a large mammal extinction is terrifying for us right, that's that's. One expression extinction. Man made extinction. Yeah! That's that's terrifying! To me. To me, it's on its moral syn

This is like you know. We have always conversations and bio ethics and other things about playing God. I think to extinction like human cause. Extinction is, is it's terrifying, do so or if there is evidence of human colleagues to human caused extinction, if there is the opportunity to bring something back through scientific methods through, like some sort of cloning, do support that you think it's gone, it's gone man, the defence about it and, in my understanding of the my understanding of the technology, is probably too limited, merely speak to it with any authority, but it, but that most interesting aspect. That is, when you get you the into the extinctions where you know it's just a kind of bring people up to speed on that means, if you just look globally at where we lost that, where we live where and when we lost pachyderms, so elephants, including the woolly mammoth now Macedon in our own on our own continent. If you look at

like where we lost package. We always lose pack terms. Write your own time, human show up the excitement like we lost like we law some in all humans arrived in the new world. It's a hotly debated number four in fifteen thousand years ago, and I M kind of contemporaneous but the extinction of woolly mammas. We know to some degree, human were preying on woolly mammas, preying on mastodons there's context of of hunting equipment in contacts with with woolly mammoth remainders butchering sites is all authorized stuff and they ve in a red around them. Yet reach an island out in the Bering Sea till four thousand years ago, and there was a woolly mammoth on that island till four thousand years ago and then Dude show up. It's gone. So some people look there's a thing called the blitzkrieg our which hold that all large mammals, nine general of law,

mammals went extinct when humans arrive in the new world that they were somehow human caused extinctions? That other people argue that those other things climate change issue. Randal Carlson's ago, Vida Evanna, my part ass before and he use that its due to Asteroid Olympic yeah. I saw him with a guy who is doing research on whose alot evidence not evident disguised as an aim that Gaga found anodyne, anal diamonds. I think you see it's called trite night, but its nuclear glasses exact glass that they get on sand when they have nuclear explosion. Yet when they do test sites, they find that all throughout Europe, in its all around twelve thousand years and is also more somewhere ten thousand, so it seems like some between twelve thousand and in another thousand years or so later there's another series of impacts, and it has to do with this. Asteroid belt that we pass through, and it was fuckin fascinating, but terrifying conversation is. I want the guy that does it there's a famous

paleo indian site, north of death were called the linen Meyer site. And the Linda Meyer Sight was one of the few. Not one of them We place that we now know we're locked gatherings of the of the Folsom culture large gathers of the false and culture you had, perhaps hundreds of Folsom hunters in one place at one time and the site is marked by a large like a like an easy recognizable escarpments and is presumed, there's a place you could describe and people could meet up, but they state that the The linen Marseille has been studied extensively in tons of radio carbon dating, as happened at Linen Meyer site. Now, with a guy there who looking who is working on that theory? Then? Yes, three with the astral impact and the Nan or diamonds, because he was able to go, draw samples from strata there had been tested and studied so much

which is an expensive, laborious process to get date lines. You know who's there drano things out, and then I had other people who were professionally in this space. Talk about how concerted ridiculing the idea and saying that, just like one of these ideas, it never dies and never quite lives been required Eyes and by We look at it so hard to believe they Hahnemann to extinction so quickly, where the Master Meadow Mouse, sixty five percent of all the north american mammals died really quickly, and it wasn't just big stuff that enlargement is like. We use it what we want is to do digs right. Hd like archaeological digs yeah they would use, pressure, hoses and shit nearer. They only had an there. Only look at the big stuff, but many many things when extinct. Did you see the earth species small species in oh yeah? It is it's kind of hard to picture it just so hard to picture what eggs, actually happened. Just got. Conversely, in

He will kill him aunt Adeline models now those goofy things which we have far, can you thrown at a level that people kills them authority. Arts gets of real raises. There used to be like the hulk, but the thing they say as you it about wildlife, and lost on being habituated that wildlife. I would have been the other extreme. They products, then, like the l, and Yellowstone. Wolves showed up with alike homosexuals dog right. So and then they have very low fecundity in I'll pack in terms of but we're not just Tom. That's that's prompt right, just Tommo packaged symbolic, Face bears the american Cheetah great giant grounds loss not another. Do these guys really hundred all their extinction is hard to imagine what also hard to imagine it should go under extinct for any cause? Well, it's

also coincides with the end of the ice age. Has something happened, something radically ever created a greatly under the ice age is just an idea that we ve created right. Like we note, during their interglacial periods like if you look at the ice age, as are the pleistocene right, there were any glacial periods where the water was much higher than it is now. There were interglacial periods when the water would have been up over the pedestal of the statue of liberty. Really an shit froze again as I, but Eddie that the Pleistocene Holocene transition is is like it, it's just that point we divided in our heads we endorse many glaciers, Asians right will only tell if we ever see another glazier asian again, but I dont know that's one of the things that that's one of the things that makes that implies. Holden's people who contradict one of these and emboldens people who contradict human cause, climate change

we ve been through so many cycles. They'll and point out and say why We know this isn't a normal. Another warming trend, tween ice age periods and then allow Your point on go because there's no evidence that they ever happened. This quickly dislike radically fast, these are things are played all over ten thousand years. He's aren't things that played out over human lifetimes in all interglacial period? Being ten thousand your thing in seeing the interglacial periods really important to understanding all these issues, because interglacial periods in glacial periods, mom moments when wildlife could have come under the new world. No one wild life such as yet Buffalo and then lay Eleanor things when they would have had the opportunity to come from Asia and cry, the bearing land bridge. Come down into are on our continent and when it would have when they could have not done that. So neither like wended human show up. When did these?

are things short like minded horses disappear? When could they have come down? One of Buffalo com how did I get here? You survive. Looking at a suit We didn't come down when the entire north of swathed in forty feet of snow and ice pursue. They came down when it was ice free corridor, and so you can kind of to all these comings and goings by looking at moments when there was an ice record, to come down, and so it is beautifully intertwined men is so complex and there's no way to really lock it down yet has no it. Totally figured out yet, but it so fascinating. When we find these animal still, they just pulled out a big skull with tusks a ranch in Montana really recently. I think I tweeted it. I think it was saving you on. My body found a job with the most, in it, but I went to a museum wow where he just got a couple years ago. He found in the tone my

and John. His buddy owns a ranch in Montana and he was talking to some swimmer. This might be the same guy. You know he was now and on how this time I tossed on em they they for they found a dinosaur as property said, the archaeologists, came was paleontology, paleontologist paleontologist came to his property. He said he went for a walk up the hilly stopped he found. Some on the ground he looked around. He made some calculations and came back them use can gradually, you got a dinosaur new property. He was what they came back ever fuckin t Rex on us operating, no guy get a million and a half hours because they pulled a fuckin t rex from his proper does I have ordered a paleontologist founded litter founded in five minutes, said he's our walk around the property he found it the two are some sort of chip, a piece about he reckoned. It immediately is banned dinosaur made some phone calls called some people, and next thing you know like within weeks they start excavations, no shit.

Found a fuckin t rex. I was probably because, because those on private land could sell a million and a half, on public LAN thought once sultans, fossilized can't touch it yeah. That's interesting! What do I agree because our escape your question about. On doing human cause right extinctions. What else getting at is The animals that are most interested in just from a boy in a very boyish way I those place, seen critters and if I new enough. I had the diamond bullet right. They would tell me that, yes, absolutely, we lost the mammoth cause of human hunting behaviors at the place, a scene housing transition Our delight was bring them sons of bitches back right now. Why? If you prove without a shadow of a doubt,

human hunters created that problem, and I know that take now. Let us say the technology is just failsafe where you controversy People are up in arms. Boston, Buffalo, run round cut loose, loosen shortly: bears. No doubt the giant initiating the wolf reintroduction once was shaky with a sharp lays bare the scary idea of animal as a huge bear. Very fast really knew they were. They were fast runner and their bigger than polar bears. Nanny, no others, the american cheetah yeah the kid the reason why antelope or so fast that theory that the animals are ridiculously fast for any predator there's like their speed, doesn't make sense through the on tax of what's chasing them right now. Why do people com, speed, it's what they the. Why goat, because the there, because there's a there's, a dumb ass, reason enters a tax now mockeries and I know

dear friends of mine, on both sides that spectrum whereon fast. If I put my brother who on occasion calls and go till talk about tax anomaly, there the other, distinct like they're, the only thing in there they're the only thing in their family right that I have Nicole's relatives There are, therefore there are only there here and animal that sheds its horn antlers shed L moose dear oh sir It's like antlers shed horns, don't shed animals care their horns for their whole life, like a crack in the sheath, but antelope shed their heart but it turns out that there's somebody like to point out that they're, like close to a vote, that the goal is close. Although we'll say this. They can look like goats. I don't know, I think it's a derogatory term. I don't like it. Really, I don't like derogatory animal term, so wised goat, a derogatory tome load goad, is what people call the grace of all time the goat. Now a mountain goat is a noble, majestic animal rights, a barn

go, I don't think is noble, majestic and I don't think they're equating it to a mountain goat. Why the Mount oh being as beautiful white, fluffy, goats, lobbying, a wild animal? Those are awesome, nance, awhile, em, and to be like speed go you say like all it's like a go a lowly barnyard go the halls Ass, I was just in that I feel. Are those drugs or this is a minor issue all point out, but it does bother me. I don't think it's derogatory to call to go I do, think that- and I have a moment Emory does I've met anyone who does things derogatory its funding because and go. You agrees and noble animal. I don't uninterrupted. I was in Hawaiian, goats are everywhere bizarre driving on the road is fuckin goat You won't get wild goats and like there like, a wild animal yeah man, you are top a while politics Hawaii. Thereby getting that yeah. It's crazy! That's interesting shit. We have your

sweet of mammals as your whole, suite of mammals, all non native yeah, all of em, but here's the peers- were it's interesting, so Polynesian colonise the wind out of the first people, the first humans to colonized the wide islands polynesian who carried with them, rats, dogs, pegs right. We have native Hawaiians like collide and indigenous Hawaiians people or carry native rise they regard themselves, NATO lions, yet people are he's telling them that the wildlife? is non native, so you leave. People showed up with pigs, and now the nature conservancy will get chunks of land in Hawaii and eradicate the non natives. And the native Hawaiians Blake, but we're contemporaneous with these animals. How my native right- but you tell me that

thing I like the hunt is not native needs to be gotten rid of ridiculous. They should think it is worth I mean to say they like it's a unanimously held viewpoint, but people who the viewpoint of the day, the deck they hunt pigs, their father hunt, pigs, their grandfather, hunt, pigs, their great great, great, great, great grandfather hundred pigs no, what's the pressure coming from to eradicate them from agriculture, no it's from People who are worried about losing yet more and we ve already lost, doesn't know speaking regional, exciting since our expectations and in some cases extinction extinctions? We ve lost dozens of species, of of hawaiian flora and fauna too considering at a wide range of ground, nesting birds have been lost, rats and pigs so Now is not so much focus on the ales, what the butt of flora. So there are people who are trying to re. Who would like to add that I get were there come from? Who would like to

store large areas of of native meal plant It is in the hawaiian Isles, because any when you go all the fruit. You see, the cocoanuts are not native papayas, mangoes breadfruit, nonetheless, thus native, while all introduced its appeal place, a petri dish, man, They are therefore a turkey's pheasants Jocker His heirs is dear everything there, but none of that shit's from there are some people who look and say that we have a job. We have you, no ecological responsibility to try to salvage some part, but meanwhile yeah another person active would be like we made this place bloom, Ways oozes with life and his people, who the other get off there. They are able to glean all of their food source, from the island from things that their ancestors have established on the island and is offensive to him? Do you

no about Darwin, visiting the Galapagos silence and that one of the ways he sort of formulated is theories about evolution and, although the various variety of wildlife through visiting the Galapagos Islands unintentionally, p full of had seeds, they brought with them on the bar. Are shoes thought I'm sure is really crazy and all these animals and plants, rather a growing that are non native and this debate pops up as to what to do with them and then there's all these turtles that live there and this. This debate props up as too like how to protect these turtles and they brought in goats to a rat Kate, some of the sum of the plants, not it's not over our dna. Some people brought goats over there, like some sailors broncos over there is a food source left him on the island for enables back we need food and other guy got problems.

Are they trying to figure out how to eradicate the goats and gray radio year? You know the Jew S. The ads Judas go the diver while they take one goat and they are they sterilised that goat and to that can't breed, but that go. Will find all the other goats and hang out I've gotten a parade yo collar on the little fucker, and then he let them know where the other goats are than they ve gone down. Those go there and let us one you're totally gave and he goes well. Gonna go find mother and he goes and finds the other one. I got we found them and the poor thing is afforded had only been know. If he's like is a man of my lucky chauvinists helicopter! That's what I thought I had taken him out like petunia. The writer Tom Robins she's alive, skinny legs and, ah, I think, he's u, thereby perfume yeah. I think he's alive, about and what was worse, he talks about Hawaii Hawaii had a rat problem. There a broad in the mongoose.

Now two mongoose problem and he makes a joke to. We had a crime bar we brought him cops, let sort What Australia didn't. I mean Australia brought in Fox to deal with the rabbits they brought. Rabbits, the rabbits got out of control. They brought in Fox do what the rabbits through the fox hunting, ground, nesting, birds and they brought in cats as well. They have a huge feral cat problem in Australia to the point where their hunting magazines are really bizarre, could show I can't hold another cats. Why, like my Adam Green Tree lives in Australia. Now it's it's crazy plays its similar in a lot of ways. Why is a lie of the animal Rihanna not live their hunting magazines or fill with fuck and dogs and cats, and shit

where is reared. A wilderness shaken Ameriky level laws on aeroplanes of next passenger define what I was looking at it on an airplane, and I got to the part where they got hold of the cat grip and grit and to turn the page real, quick, fuckin Jesus, it's heavy. Yet it then native thing is it amazes me our inability to anticipate- I guess it's kind of say something is like weirdly contradictory, are in a bit ready to anticipate unintended consequences, which doesn't entirely makes sense. We see them Gaia right back. I am air while there's no forethought to bring and foxes or cats like in say, while they're just gonna eat the rabbit that we left by now, yet it fuck em, and they can eat every event like. How do you not see their common? Don't you know what a cat does not have killed them, You can you throw a ball yard in front of a fucking. Tat kind doesn't like we're doing we're doing it now somethin.

We're not we won't know yet. In ten years will be twenty years will be goofing something we're doing right now. That we think is a good idea. Probably right. Well, we'll keenly those dumb asses yap into doesn't sixteen thought x. I wasn't there but what those things might be, but I mean you were not done all commercial lorries, gales, commercial, large scale. Agriculture in a way is not only just really really reason: it's completely unnatural. Of these giant swaths of land is filled with corn. Monaco elegant monoculture start very unnatural, so people to think about Lego, Armenia, meaning vegetables, are meeting natural mom, not a part of this whole factory farms system. The fuck you're not you're, part of factory agriculture system here, eating corn, if you buy in corn Euro eaten corner cod thinking, you're all healthy. That shit is key. From a really unnatural place. It's coming from this ground that has been filled up with all this nitrogen that's been,

out the air to the harbour method they ve been dumped into the earth. Is the earth earth been deployed? they with minerals are the power that no longer supports growth of plants, unless you add stuff to it, and then you have these the law hard scale, machines of the need to tend to this stuff and there's nothing actual that large scale agriculture. No, we just don't consider it because we consider factor farming when it comes to living animals as being horrific in a way that its pigs or cows, or chickens that sturbed, almost anybody with a conscience. We don't think twice about the consequences of law large scale, agriculture on actual wild life and oiled ground. When you picture that, we have a me much asked than this, but we have entire counties that support, a single species of plants of plant oftentimes. Is The species of a non native plan could now be lowering outside corn is

It is kind of a native knows, derived from maize. Is that kind of native species oftentimes it's like tire counties given all or to a single non native plan well isn't: corn sort of like looking at a domestic dog and saying, while that domestic dog is a wild animal. Yet really, I don't even know leg if you took someone from pre colombian Times and short a may corn. Not another there, they. I don't think that they would probably recognise that everyone would. In fact I was. They were deal with a corn. It was more. There was that smaller than when you are making a stir. Frying get the little baby corn things when it acts more small things. Why are you telling me this and tell how even came to be somebody the theory that it was bred from a grass as they did their that they get like the lineage of corn is hard and track wow. So

Oh, that was his native Americans. It did this where they figured out how to spice these plants together and tired. I know: there's a book, a camera, the name of the book the gets into it, but just trying to like track down sort of the history. Corn and how it can be your they oftentimes points you would domestication of of animals and plants, sometimes those urban, accidental domestication. You know it, you got gather something right. You bring home you process. Sit near your home, you're sick uttering seed right and innovation? here like creating any things, be corns difficult track. The lineage of corn is not clear. It's so bizarre. What kind of a foothold it has an american culture tat really meant. X. Rays, obviously interviewed for some of the document. Work on. I interviewed animal he's accused from California Visa Animal rights activists in Asia. He teaches animal ethics and um. He has brand of egotism that I think, would be refreshing. You should have this guy. I keep telling you should have an issue, but he has it very well.

His name's Robert Jones. He has a very refreshing sort of vagueness them as do over dinner really, but but, He doesn't. He doesn't hold out ideas. The he's peer because of what we're talking about right he's he's educated enough about agriculture and educated enough like the inherent straw, all the inherent life and death through all food production did. He doesn't think like. Oh, I have all the answers. I am the gentle kind. One could be seen cornfield right look, he knows. Work you're turning your violently turning the land with equipment. Things are dying when you grow vegetables like weren't work, enmeshed in a cycle of life and death that is inescapable his point. We want Tully steal the guy's point

you, better job of himself self. His point is that if we agree that we should minimize suffering. There are steps we can take to minimize suffering, not saying that I've got it. Answers not got figured out, but if we want to minimize the suffering of sentient beings, then that's a conversation. We should have the best thing that he said that the best thing that that he said in explaining the animal Rights Moon, which allows the liver baffled by is he gets into this idea of He used the term species ism you that one year, so you know we had we ve dealt with and deal with racism, we ve dealt with and deal with sexism, and we are, he would argue, I think, you'd say around the cost of of tackling our pride. Of species is, and he would say like if you went to someone. Like it, you know. If you want to the Mississippi Delta.

You know in the end seventeen late. Seventeen honors in. To someone like hey. No, have you ever thought about the fact that, no you kind like and abuse these people. Have you ever thought about how their like people, too believe me. You sound like the guy when built to cope with what you are saying he Blake out. Clearly I mean come on. Any idiot could tell you the debt slave is not I mean come on right he says, we're right right now of animals who reside when I say it to you like more clearly were so Does he aim to stop animal on animal crime? You know I asked him about that and now That was one of the things I at the end of our conversation. I said: oh Mamma, you get a cup of things need to work on that because he didn't have a great one

For that another one that he didn't have a great one for us. He had another. He had a great one, other those like trying to stump him. Could he either he's is a very intelligent? Well thought person various back for the people who saw him, do imbue the disagree with them. I have nothing admiration for the guy, but we had a conversation that I was not totally satisfied with. Where He has a deal of reverence. It seems again at risk, but words is now he's as a reference for like indigenous hunting cultures right that they had like the sort of respect that they had a respect for animals that we don't have in some of that made okay for them like they had a spiritual connection, and so that made that ok, in don't have that. So we're not ok, and I ask about? Are you able to identify the point in human development and cultural development What is the point when you're supposed to give up the chase like at what point you have a risk possibility to stop

hunting cause you're, saying that it is ok for some people. It's Slowly, not ok for us now, winds, We have made the jump because return bout like the Spanish there's a there. A situation where the Spanish had gone into in american Southwest we're trying to as they can civilize southwestern tribes, and they were building homes for them. Trying to instruct them in religion trying to create schools for them, trying to provide them with Tools of the agrarian lifestyle and they would write letters back to the king. Complaining about how these people refused to stop go hunting like you, give him a chance and his sons of bitches. Got to go hunting here. We are giving them everything they need to be sedentary and it won't get with the programme. So there is a struggle or, if you like, you're supposed to be like, I think some people expect

Do you like, if you're human, they think that the end result of humanness? Is it you like wind up, not hunting, that sort of like the goal of civilizations, to make you not a hunter and these little the guilty of that because he thinks it is ok, for some people and where he runs into troubles. These talks about that. I asked about ethics is, but the animal doesn't care about your ethics to him he's dying if he D, eyes, and you have such a good feeling in your heart. Earthy dies. You have a bad feeling in your heart, he's dead, it doesnt matter. They don't know what troop euro you're caught. They suffer the same regardless of your motivations and which leads me to want to point out. Ok, but

Indigenous cultures, that you say it's ok for them to hunt for animals are suffering to the animals they killed, don't know that their being killed by indigenous peoples and therefore it makes the suffering more palatable for them their dying. So there are some traps there that that that me were answered in a satisfactory way. They don't make sense of absolutely it's a very messy situation. If you want to try to confine behaviour that way. Want to impart moral judgment on people, because what we do with people with pets we do it. Who have cats and as he has companion animals. Yes, yes go up, say about that really. The is very interesting so say because I have to say with those animals that are mistreated and confined and ground up and now he would like that. But I don't know if you feel I would imagine I feel I feel kind of

Fiji has a very vague and diet, and I imagine I know a bit my act about it because I got into it because I found I gotta get harassed by someone online. I wanted a twitter page and it said the hashtag vague and cast it. You gotta be fucking kidding me and then I found this entire community of people that feed their cats vague in food. The problems cats go blind, those they die Robert, not unlike that he didn't. He wasn't that interested in an argument now say no light. Would you do feel that we should separate, predatory animals from pray and put him on I saw a diet and he does thought out Is that why you thought I'd be like ridiculous for the sake of everyday? It is, but how long hats? It's a real question. We why you you're you're you're taking this cat and you're putting this cat above the animals that it eat your deciding that these chickens in the fish and all the different things you need to grind up make cat food. That's ok, cause you love, can you have a hierarchy of animal life and we all have a hierarchy of life visions?

inveigle slap, mosquitoes I've seen it. I've seen that I see kill ants, you know a lady I still have near not from the lay there, the ash Ramos sprained bugs break with an it's a buddhist temple. It's ok She was a live in a next to our next locks. And she she's spray bugs prey on the ants and other good fucking on the ants kill. The ants should kill him my what he don't strike while we don't like to, but they get in our food. Holy shit like you're, a vegetarian who is committed to a Buddhist live of, do no harm, but yet you're you there's no way around this. You have to poison these fuckin ends with death from sky that comes out of these Energy is metal containers, aerosol containers of death yeah, it is this bizarre lines that we draw, but as long as I am putting my taken, the liberty of myself and in Robert

Joanne, Lattices Robber Jones position. I think that the that he would have some interesting stuff to say about about this conversation we're having were like, because harm happens, then what you say: fuck it more open up the gates. Well, no, but let's talk about life, is, is life in a small form, more insignificant or less significant than an elk, A coup decides that an ant is less significant that it out. If I one else. I can eat it for a year. It's one life, one life for a year, you lie, ants getting on your peanut butter enjoy sandwich seas. Spray a whole colony. These fuckers you ve, killed the house. Of life forces even ruled out the insight that other guy that road

priests, scathing review. I think he might. You might have been an active efforts in the Wall Street Journal or somewhere youths Guyana, priests gaining review of my third book an end there is like just that. The number of animals disguise kill about me right, rethink and if you go and get a twelve pack of mcnuggets homey chickens any sorted out the parts Europe probably eating hundreds of chicken probably does it's all scraps, it's emulsifier scrap, do not like will carry it this chicken here Irina produce. Thirty nuggets, while my problem: is they never turn that force themselves and never turn that high powered vision of the consequences of their actions on themselves. If someone's talking about like this guy's a view

can and he's a vegetarian is talk about how many animals you ve killed. How many animals are you response before for your fuckin you're? Here We probably he wasn't. Even he wasn't. He So he was a mediator. Let's preposterous normal debts, Ricky Jervis its wreckage is constantly talks about hunters in and hunting the guides me like, there's so many weird laws and I get it that he doesn't think people she to hunt animals just for trophies- and I agree, but it's very rarely do these animals get hunted just for trophies like you. If you shoot a fuckin elephant, the village eats the elephant, beer feeding hundred of people with that elevate, not point out too and I do our pro elephant shooting is illegal, nigh I'd like.

We talk about Yellowstone Syndrome, nihilists, I'm always having a personal. Almost I'm taking a couple year, long break from discussing wildlife in Africa. Really I point out the your article that you rose one of my favorite on that subject, and it was right around the time that the seas of wine things going down and it all A reference does that Kendall Jones Girl, who got a lotta hate online, which she had she's a Texas chew. Leader and choose really cute. I think yeah people hate a good looking woman hunting However, the big smiled or phasing lead you they do not like asunder, like did a real good and heating and cooling

why do people? I am like a girl rise, hot girls. Had american girls, don't roster wanting us also like what are you shooting if you're over there and you shooting a koodoo and you gonna eat it in year you feed the villages every as well. It is an antelope. That's ok, as is its traditional, something that we are where we are asking about the hierarchy, because we spend The time at work filmy mediator. We spend a lot sent out the hierarchy because, for instance, we have occurred, The guy work with Rick Smith, long professional history and work with wildlife and wildlife and then grow up haunting the issue he's coming arise curious about it, but he asked a lot of good questions and we looking, we had killed moose and the next day happened, we're up in Alaska, we kill removes the next day we rolled off our camp and having to go near their owners Wolverine. Dragon off moose parts.

You talked about this on your part and yes, yeah great story. Rick was like and you're law in that area. Between September one march, thirty first you're allowed to kill your lot o and my friend but Boden in all. He has eaten and enjoys Wolverine meat and the high, as we all know, a phenomenal. I think we all know that more usual isn't activism. Like we all know traditionally, parkers are true with worrying, because Wolverine will not freeze up when Scott Frost by trimmed mean the around the hood round, her down you when you're Axion, yeah yeah yeah suck is fraught lorries doesn't stop wiles ices areas. Are you not of oil in the hollow hair brentano what it is about? The resistance from resists frosts always working around the first they wouldn't the rainbow we're just talking about in the week legally could have gone. Take crack at it did you have,

an opportunity to do so. Yeah they were utilized art. It had to have acted quickly, but yes or you could staked out this way. To come back on. It is a little thief he's doing. Moves, so we already budgeted right, taken the hooves. Ok got right but your marrow eater so he's taken bone. He ass she stole to our marrables because we then are the fuck. Is he we took. We took the form marrow bones and he wound up getting over on another night at dark installed somewhere marrow bones out of our cash. But we didn T have any out Rick's point now. I dont think you should mass with like he's like that's a animal. That thing is off Why is it? Is it? Well, they room one other thing you saw him out is like man, cover so much ground. You know I have a whole range of they'll. Go to an fifty miles as like be ever witnessed, the Cariboo terrible, go a thousand miles, hundreds of miles, those not distance travelled, no use

Just do it just something like yeah Something will Peter hours at around bears worse you. The way you describe charismatic megaphone yeah step does not my term, but it's a great hats off to ever did we can who invented charismatic megaphone. Yet we are attributed to somebody leave it with you not come over that Ireland was one day. You'd find it are telling us one day talking about. He was interested in tracking where things come from Thou being easy. Haste, but you're using arrested and tracking was waitresses saying, are you still, working on that because, There was a time when no one said that and then all of a sudden Everyone said it and use interrupted. Where did? Are you still? working on that come from the one mouth that it first came out of soya about it. I didn't care is no megaphone great, and I think that there's Things are so charismatic wolves in as these that, like new

who Jersey CAT Ladys know about him. Did you see that the billboard that they had up we're all Cecil There was a bubble lion. Hugging a bare has turned the stop. The bare hunt in New Jersey, well- you never thy. I know there's yearly report, I somewhat peddled obey drastic Schumann's shot petals rude. Whenever someone they have with my marina right right. When I wrote it came out like up the fish and game agency there, just little bag owners a bear, their common neighbourhood bear in New Jersey and he had had some kind of injury or possibly birth. The fact where he was item he spent a lot. I'm walking by repeatedly here he's not uncommon, which is probably. Why did you come here? He had obvious injurious and is in his front section. So would would walk yet not uncommon improbably. It could be a lot of.

Things. We have about harmony like like large mysterious hominids could come from August, bears walk around their battery but your New Jersey had. They have of an ex. I don't wanna see I don't want you had this me in too many, but they have a exploding population of black prisoners, reluctant to say something over populated tsars. Gotta ass, like according to whose definition right is like the autumn we'll insurance cup, the industry, because they ll say everything is over I am delighted that you might run over with your car agriculture. Interests have a different definition of orbit, so they have a shitload bears that's affair statement, Hunt season turns out. Some guy comes in new Czech station and he had shot this bear that walks run on his back. It gives them the name petals because he taken to scavenging bird feeders and stuff around a neighborhood. And so I came out of the magazine, one of those those dipshit he knew.

We're gonna lie magazines. It is based the coals basis, steel, shit out of the New York Times and rights, a own interpretations of New York Times. Articles wasn't gawker will some like that said the paddles had been assassinated, I read what those websites that all they do is like hack traditional media. But then they just write articles comment. Non traditional media stories. I do not like generating leads. Lay this board ban the baron. There are also saw their crying the crime they have cartoon tears like literal and look out the bears hugging or the blind rather's hugging the bare poor babies. Nurse in nice, billboard what will we were to read more about petals, all the people that did the charismatic megaphone here because an early retirement or park has recently we had a biologist on who works for the Kalis Bell tribe

an indian tribe, and that his dorkly urine idle portions of Washington portions Montana, in there involved in cariboo. Mountain care were recovery. In the? U S, a most people do not know that tradition of it treasure we had a care urban population, they drifted down from drifted from Canada down in northern, wash To Northern Idaho Northwest Montana that now at all laws, but it does not can re at this. Moment it we're talking right now, there are some a couple miles from the: U S, border inside Canada, but These, be that the last legal one to be killed. Wasn't it was back in the nineteen twenties what happened? Images disturbances, the habitat there always a small like not a large number of them, and we had a lot of

that mess with their travel corridors, development, road, construction, logging activities and now They they rarely ever drift down into the? U S, but as an act of recall, ray area there so yet about a dozen caribou did arc tenders to be in the? U S: net sometimes will actually cross in coming to the? U S and the Selkirk mountains. No one gives a shit about mountain care The amount of lake energy, the amount of mental energy? goes into people's favorite animals at the expense of other good profit. We can be other good while their projects, we can be work, not kind of bottles. My mind black bears, you have so we have Enough blackberries. We have black, bear hunting season. I think thirty six states, while rapidly

spanning population of black bears and people, expanding enormous amounts of energy resources because it's like I dont, understand and they're just and they just like our wilfully, ignorant about other wildlife issues that are much more important because it's like us cuddly doesn't look buzzy. Well, they don't have a stuffed one. I don't know what it is stuff Teddy bears. There's a lot of it in the bud, We ve got accustomed to think of these things is our friends. That's yogi bear near you. We ve done he's anthropomorphic relations with these cartoons and television shows and its ingrained in the consciousness of a lot of people, no matter what you do, you can get it out of their there's. There's some legitimate differences between us. Animals. You know we were talking about that. Yesterday, we going about the differences between bears endear like how dear looks at in a bare, looks at near you now about how we're lost

before the show about white tailed dears like catch either, do you know why not overlooking look at you? That's and tender electric their eyes are like day like no, you there to kill him, and then I call that fuckin person I gotta get out were bare. Looks at you like going on here. Can you hear me? There's like weird sort of relationship the people have with bears D. Look at you, it don't look at you with the same sort of intense fear that a game animal looks at this. Is the blurring of the lines there, and I think that when we think of animals that we eat. We have very distinct classifications, you tell people a bear, they all knew, and I did you know what first hunts you try to take me on, was blackberry, hot and also now go yeah it getting used to now when, when we go on, let's go get some blueberry bear Yet I have

I have the same. I had the same problem. Why do I do create a hierarchy, but I also try to like question where the high turkey has come from the comes from into sauce out contradiction, but really proud of me where, where gets problematic, for me is the way that in which it seems the and get some American so excited about. Voting any kind of exploitation of a handful of species, yet there Yet they remain completely uninvolved with the with the shoes in politics and recovery efforts of other things that need it really that need it right now. The fact it with wolves in Greece Certain populations of Grizzly bears, sir, Regulations of wolves have reached recovery, objective still cover them on the endangered species act because people wanting use the endangered species act to save things from any threat of exploitation at all, like nothing to do with what it

nothing to do with what the legislation was meant for its become our is become the favourite animal act, If you want to initiate something called the favor animal act and try to get it passed by Congress, feel free, but don't steal the USA and take it away from its intended purpose. In order to protect your stuffed animal animals, you intervene, important point on one of your party, ass. We talk about population numbers population objectives. And you were saying that will like. If you look at Elk for example, in some places. Elk are extremely common in Colorado. France interests more Elk in Colorado that I think any other state but yeah by by ethical, almost like a factor too there's a lot. So tell people in Colorado that elder endangered, like fucking talking about go to Florida, there's no elk. Now gone wolves, same thing right, Elk or gone from ninety percent of their historic range in the? U S, while ninety percent,

yet. No one has a problem with L cunning seasons bright exactly, but we owe them It's a thing who loves. Well, that's the problem, What looks like dog needles I always egg. Its nordic explorers is farewelled. Me plants loved eyes, a cycle. Do you know any aid to Carpio. He ate found a desiccated whale beached. Had been like in this in an assault and its tongue was dried out and he caught the tongue now, and then he said to how they boiled it repeatedly repealing target assault on events it then he ran to some eskimo hunters who said that thing than land every three years, Jesus Christ, here? Is our Gore other funding? Even three year old tongue, just like you said you get boiling rebounded due to his anyone. If you want to make a have s sombre genuine,

guess he made Stevenson, he's gotta put my life with the Eskimo, so he made first, contact with a lot of people in the high Arctic, They knew he was meeting. People who knew about whites but had met NEA and was voiced about the steward is how frustrated he would get with trying to show him his shit, which he thought they'd be blown away by so he'd like get out a gun one days, one days is painfully. We we can do is like my people going into surge. What year resists, he would make a first contact in the early nineties. Hundreds of lake like Coronation Victoria Island. We have in the Canadian I art again, then new. They knew that there was white they had met. Me. Wait here, He'd, come Newman and he'd expect Beaumont lucky. He shows him guises firearm his gone. And this duty as cool Brown. There and shoot his bow is air will too?

apple to the far side of the mountain and kill a care, but the can't even see or he was saying we can do. Surgery on people do appendectomies and he says I know a guy that can take your whole spine in school and brain out and put it back in again somebody telescopes and that you can see the moon craters an airline Otto guys bend the moon in haunted there. So one upmanship dude is lacking. Is the greatest book may how frustrated against one of the things he describes as he describes how they would kill when they killed a polar bear. They would bring the head back and put in their large sort. Draw- and I want to push this too far, but much in the same way you might bring ahead. Homan hang on your wall, the Brown put in their lodge and the thinking as explain.

The staff, and was it and bring them home. So the We can observe me and my family and see that were good people. And when he goes, the afterlife he will tell Polar Bears, if you gotta get killed by somebody, Not a bad gotta have that guy's! Ok, I would point out about the animal schools and hides in my own home that I feel, like you know that a lot of may myself seem to spirits and in some ways I think of that. I think of that with animals. I haven't just a concept that you run in your mind that I run on my mind. I think my while the topmost have loved wolf, so he ate every damn thing like Moscow Caribou. War. Is he ate everything and in talks repealing about his preference for Wolf me preference? Above all,

Tony RE, my life with the Eskimo when you ate a coyote yeah. What was that like like, but here's the problem that I run into cause. I in Vietnam, I a fair bit of domestic dog ate Cairo, and I monkey. Read how we're monkey, though my big, my big tree, grasslands of me We are like, I said, I'd middle earlier to having my own animal hierarchies and those of the times when I have sort of strayed into uncomfortable ground for myself, canines and hominids, they hominid now not a primate pregnant. So. Yeah I get like a I give are currently tell when it tastes like is difficult to actually tastes like cause you're feeling that there's so many other things going on. Emotions thoughts and in it, and I get like a hot hot guilty feeling

born out of Vietnam. They described dog as a hot food, and I kept ass in with that man, I don't understand what it does it like makes me sweaty, I thought was a gilt thing, but people would then they would eat it and serve it. Around the TAT holiday so the lunar new year. It was auspicious specious, its awesome she's. The dog me in the days leading up to the lunar nuclear and it's a game. It's a food that you have a risky enterprise in some areas. Vietnam is kind of a risky enterprise to eat. Dear, maybe like a dead dog downside to eat, dog has examined the people like these restaurants, open up their only open Tommy here and his people coming into like bring in good luck, risky enterprise, Hausa a guy, told me that one of the guys I interviewed Tommy

He was unable to get his is unable to have children. And they determine that it was. It was on him and his wife is fertile using for he ate dog and it changed his fortunes to changes, luck and he got his wife. Pray now. He says I will naughty dog again for fear but I would undo what I did. It's a powerful food, this The sentiment held more in the north than in the that held more I spent time in Hanoi and I spent time and inside our horsemen city as the sentiment there was expressed more like in more of a semis ouch away, in the north than it was in the south. Now a translator that add hired told me out only dog he said dogs. I have a dog. I went to his house to see his dog I come in.

In the dog is in a small cage. Probably as a means, probably maybe two feet by three and a half feet, it's a wire mash cage and luggage drip pan below it, basically to collect the animals waste. And there's a ball rice in the dog just goes ape. Shipment we come in and it is they look at doggie itches was not. It did not seem like a well dog, I said to him, and he was very busy street in Hanoi walk out just for Vietnam mayhem. Scooters is just like insane and I said, Durham So you just take em out, you can just go welcome here and you can Simulated as matters stand on time and it turns out the dead,

had out of that caged since he brought home. That was his pet dogs, which he kept like a cheese, Christ he said I will need now. Conversely, in the train I went out to a farm guy has a small plots of land. He is there there they have like of bases. This narrow, the very poor farmers you don't own laminate state owned land terminal land, but they have subsistence farms in this guy raised a sugar cane he had a Aragon can have a regular gun, but yet God and he would haunt various arboreal marsupials and and things to eat. He had some water river flowing through his place and he had

so small on livestock and in race and crops and peppers and various things, and yet a bunch dogs run around on his place. Just pet dogs. Here's explained to me they now and then, when the dogs are bred up to number. That's hard to support him, the dog buyer comes and the dog buyer will give you. Some cash for your access, dog population and those of the dogs they go in to the markets of Vietnam other countries actually have places were there like breeding, rearing dogs for slaughter, but that was the vietnamese system, so it might be an eye of a uterus things about this all, because a mafia like comparing like this guy's pet. To this guy's livestock. I've got to the things of which is the more envelopes which is more enviable position. Livestock I'll take that life over them live

the caged shitting onto a great and I went to visit a guy that actually wholesaler who buys the dogs from farmers on the countryside and he comes back in a fat and they would fattened dogs on beef, stomach beef tea, basic stuff. In the: U S, we send a rendering plants like a like one when they slaughter slaughter cattle, most editing once the Medes having to go to rendering plant. He would by basing what you production facility. Send your rendering plant as what you'd fattened argon and you go to the markets. Native dog stacked, like just dog part, stacked up and pyramids at mark. Does bizarre to see man, and I tell you I went out in different places and with different people, Different things I went out for seven nights in a row and I could never get beyond. I can never get back beyond

my own biases, about what's food in: what's not food! It was just like very difficult for me to her eat it and fake my way through and it will. It was hard So I do understand when people call me in there look there like, hey man, a bear in our honoured I've? I've pondered great I've got a neat hundreds and hundreds of pounds bite where meat when people coming as I do I just like. I don't want to act like that. Their common. What one people economy an express disapproval right. I don't want to act like I can't understand where they're coming from, because I had the same thing. I felt there right I'll, make an argument. Another fact checked by feel it is. There are more people in this world who live in a country where it socially acceptable to eat dog meet the. Not I haven't, formerly fact, check that will remember looking at some basic figures in thinking that was true:

What is interesting that we choose naughty pigs, but pigs are probably as intelligent. If not more is the pity Tuesday pigs, rather probably as intelligent or more than dogs and dogs are probably more dangerous when their Pharaoh, then pigs are when pigs are fair they generally avoid people when dogs are fair. All they know always mean there is an instance, copper, ago, outside of land I weren't elderly couple was attacked in some was killed by wild dogs. The australian Dingo traces back to being out a dog who owes its ancestry due to human rights. Nobody's cell has really so used to be. It just get it animal was yes very early form well to check that out makes rubber. About that. Wasn't a genetic history that the Ngos was there, while dot com the Dingle reading. I think it's some kind of like a

Dog Breed probably find Adam greenery hold them one by his ankle. Fuckin bowl era hole in it. It's a wild dog says wild, but Lupus, but what's its what's, its ancestry Distance is Google and dingoes were once domestic dogs domesticated animal. I'm looking at the genetic status origin for indian, Wolf and off evolve from here. Man don't feel like I'm wrong. Interesting, widely veneer held the dingoes evolve, read from the indian Wolf or their six thousand ten thousand years ago, bread from

was assumed for all domestic dogs. The theory was based on the moth morphological similarities of the Dingle. Skulls and the scars of these sub species of walls. However, genetic analysis indicated that a much earlier domestication also, there is a domestication studies suggests dingoes marriage in South China. So you are where we arrived with humans interesting, so they were originally. Domesticated, then cut loose. The we I mean I've told you I mean I have my own. I had my own thing about bare and then I hunted baron bear. Then that thing went away yeah, that's what it is but it still doesn't seem the same. To me, as a deer yeah. If you gave me a choice, hey would rather go hot access dear, which have never hunted seems much more natural than me and go hunt black per year in I have such a complicated, a complicated sets, a field,

things about black bears and as a hunter strange? I have gone through the thing where I'm maybe before him saying as they wise not quite strange. I have found that a lot of big game hunters will do some amount of bare honey git. A couple bears and then drift away from bear hunting. They still respect how difficult is and how much you can learn about bears by fine at blob you ve, gotten, some bears are always excited, gone a bare hunt if its someone's first baron. Lady like and I have no desire. If you want to go, I would love to go along ran for its own him, but whereas, like someone like Elk

The more you get in the more you eat the more you want to get in the more you money right, but you don't you think, that's a public pressure thing, no and in a lot of ways, Barberess, because I have to grab given to my friends the about hunting bandages. They put their head back. Their fond of me, honey, dear their finds me honey pigs. Everybody seems to be in support of honey, pick no, but you know my brought. You know my brother put. The bare thing is for you here's, the conundrum grimness pre simple A bare has a very beautiful, very usable, hide cap so dear hides you can you can through processing, get like a buckskin from you get some rising it pretty good you a bull leather that that you know these used to make apparel in fact Nobody knows Dana Boon right. Dana boom was much of his life was spent in the business of trade. Dear I'd, Dana Booze, a commercial honneur he'll go out shoot white tailed dear in

summer when their hides within and sell and it was used for industrial work. Where is used for work, apparel, catlike, basely thee haven't fifties version of car heart clothes was made out of deer high summer, dear I'm not follow that term car heart. What does that mean? A car work where car Jack s car? Students drives Joe no dickies. Yes, I ok the car hardness. The rate of Jamie Lloyd like work pants, Galileo will holster for a hammer and genocide of NEA ok, so used to make em out a buckskin, chaotic, work, work apparel in his time was making bucks inside those thanks. Smelled great Don't do my dad had my dad saved a lot of his dear and had a and had a sport court made out of his own dear. Do nothing is amazing and smell. Good really out there is a nice is Jack he's dead. I should find I should go dig around stuff.

Use died, black is beautiful. Comprehend lotta had one made eve, shot a lotta dear, but Thou vessels and get it is it's like. Yes, you can do so, but it does not really isn't in today's age of other fabrics is not practical. However, a Bear hide. Has time was beauty and timeless application have you ever, about making a jacket on a bear. Hunt. Yes, did you ever do When knows what I was doing for long time, saving up my bare ads- and I want caught him in the leg, nine or ten in squares and have a very large comforter made out of many different bears cut into squares, stitched, I haven't given up on an idea, but I give a lot of my bare hides way to people who really like I'm anyway. When you get a bear s eye, No one in their right, mind gets rid of a bear. I'd right, so you get one it at and you gotta bareheaded, and once you

bear I dislike on the floor and he got bear hide over the back of the college and you have to bear. I hang it on the wall. You get to a point where You don't need me more bear eyes. You eat me in have the highest, but you don't need more bareheaded and when you get a bare there's an expense to getting the hide prepared. But you feel peaceful, not using the hives, those very hard to shoot a bare just for me right because you feel like you're wasting something that people really want, and it's beautiful people like to use the decorate their homes and use it as a told him of the wild as opposed The white tailed deer were very few people do anything with yes! So now I one day Danube, like the last bear he got. He got up to the bare and in and found himself just kind of, because I I don't I don't need your like. I look not like. I have a good that of obligations, that is animal. Now and now I'm not excite about it anymore. I don't want to

other the bare I'd. It's it's an expanse unheeded. They never kill marbre while he's somewhere, hardly loves, but you just stay just got to where he's got enough. Other stuff to eat is a moose. Because moose every year, like the moon, Meet feeds family me his feet as family salmon, primarily kills a moose every year. The other problem. That is your talking about like six hundred pounds me right now, he's got family forty burns through a plus musicale yeah. So that's a scholar where you got a new lobby. Will forever is nice on bears milder brother in heal? like when he's out, as it is when he's out at his wife's ranch, he'll see, bears run around or embarrassing, and he has even think about going on form but he's the harbours. What is your favorite artist I was on the Prince of Wales, island where you, had a bear in your site and use decided our sheep spare here. It is,

I really am. I enjoy watching them, I enjoy hunt them, I enjoy making small black bare hands out of, but it's like Would you We do that with any other animal. Now do what look at it and saddle shoot this, like a mature of mature mule. Dear hundred eighty inch meal there. No, no right right, but I could picture like with with you know Is it there's a handful animals that Europe is you can't? One of is one of the things this. I can't help but watch a bear if I'm out and eye glass up a bear. You know what I am out glass about me like the firms that not a big glass into or glass a knob up, some. I will have a commanding view of the lance glassing, meaning user benaco slope of the landscape. The way that the way I generally on

thy heart lot open country in american, western Laskin things where you have good visibility? The bulk The time I spent awning I spend on a good look out point, I point we can see no good hundred eighty degree viewer or maybe not always ornate, sometimes three sixty whatever your com. In view of the surrounding landscape, and we just behind by sitting there in jobs. Arriving with binoculars and is watching watching. Watching too. We're sometimes will spend days doing nothing but watching animals through binoculars. And when you get good at this you? U fine animals that people would never in a million years, find the other we'll never nine years locate when I'm doing that and I find a bear Observing a bear you,

I would never leave that bear to go. Do some other thing when you find a bare like when I thought about, I watch until he's gone, you can't turn away from because always feel Leg at any point, he's gonna do some amazing thing that would blow your mind. What I like crushed, something skull, I don't know They, like are always doing weird things. I e of vat. The array of things, my friends on Dudley, was watching a bare through binoculars and he saw bear run upon a moose and smash it on the back and crush it. That's what I saw he saw a grisly smash moves on the back and break its back literally hid. It so hard that its now the moon, is back and they need tackled at once. It was down thirty I have seen that, but that's what I'm looking for her. So you for their language, arrogant dose it are encountering another band of Doze- have a body language they use

here the very interesting and I in the end, the more you wash and the more you learn a bottom and anything that I've always been fascinated by. Was talking about with some friends. Mine recently was on how rest. I become in la interpretation. Relationships among meal dear, like the body language they use and how you can locate dear, that you can't see just based on body language of dear that you can see. That you watch them and you become aware of things there are aware of and you learn where other things are, that you'd that are out of your view, just by how just by what it's doing, both male and female journalism, its dough, not sometimes in general, with the most obvious. One is doze that no there's a buck around each other, before their language area and those that are encountering another band of doze have a body language they use, and you just get you

to this end users. Why did you not a base, and once you see, if you like, all he knows about it there's a deer somewhere, that's not net group, and that dear, is aware of the fact that there is not in the group- and it's like wondering about it- you see, that's all, and s neck and stuff, but I can walk away from dear. You argued legacy there, dear- and I can just go, look at in our direction- something about me makes me stare at bears. While I can give up on God it's like I'm watching and watching a wash them do the same. On by Wolverines The first will renew oversee my whole life there. The without the thing on my checklist, like, though, is far that, if you lie, large land mammals. That was the one was missing? She'd, never seen Let me now large, like american land mammals. That was meant. That was the one missing from my life. Do you think you feel really of remorse? If you shot the one you the only one, he saw that's. Why that I wasn't in touch their rearing because of that year, said right, they're nervous, I'm not gonna shoot. The first one is something I saw does ip lately

it s all about the black hole of Africa is Madge like guys go in Africa being like notion that's one of those shoot look like by am let us wait is yes, I does. It has built up a context, but so that we are like talk about serve. You see another one. The odd I'd read sooner, but not at my shoot, the first Loreen I relied eyes and as well as trying to get You know your highness, see now in our he's, been care behind and watch Wolverine scavenging care, but carcasses and says I can always the first one you saw delay dallied, not so he can a shot it because it was the first when he saw a rule, but no there was feel in any is just one of those things noticed anything I felt the great soon a member watch, my you double the way away. Till dear looks, I M watching the first links iris on an item. I feel that a manual for more finding a fair bit here but

he was the first links that I ever saw, and I just the strong feeling that I was the first person he ever saw a look of arm. Look like shit like on comprehension for using LA and he's like he's like, is as good as a bad What does this mean that you see I run through all these calculations in his mind and is drift off like active. Eyes like her sound about it. Things got its eyes Can I me like his eyes are centred on his face right, like a predator may me yeah, damning Austria for saying that tells me somethin you now and looking at me very entails not trying to act like I'm, not there and therefore he can't seem here. You know and you just you're gonna run through the head: Spi, their nuns. Does nothing good

The combined go out your direction, but just base our I was. The army is very safe, say you'd, never run a new person and I'd never run in your legs. Me has had this moment of I carry a cultural awareness, saw these new about when I look at, but for use, this point of view from just in our processing. Unlike the wide scale, that you encountered? Who damn sure knew what that that thing carried with yeah, we talked about it before the pod gas started, but I was hunting with my friend John Dudley and we were in the tree standing we're supposed to get down at one thirty, and at once five. Oh my god, you on your call it nobody lunch is, I guess so. I climbed out first and that in a one twenty five like five fucking minutes before we said it, and this big your white tail walks through and John signals to me. Does the Bullwinkle thing but put his thumbs on his head. The eastwards pointing and then I realized, is a deer coming down the path.

So I cannot hide behind the tree, but it was always branches in front of me anyway. You really are the story, but for the people using the dear locked eyes with me, MRS intensity, like immediate intensity in his eyes that I'd never expect it's an animal look at me like it was. It was very Mary tuned in. He knew exactly that. Shouldn't be there and I just froze as weren't camel he's, ok right and a face like right. In his eyes, were bulge out of his head bolted, but it's like electricity to them like they know. I am very vivid memories of ours twelve and had just tube legal awning age Michigan and I was sitting on the ground. Cunning squirrels on a fee arm owned by a man DA there are a lot and

leaning against a tree and in half an hour of for corn white tail common through the woods and afford like this, like a book like that, this always eugenic, a fork and white tells a year and a half old way. Even at that time you start squirrels September fifteenth Michigan, something that dear was you know he could have been as little as fifteen sixteen months old, he locked on me. Saw me and knew TAT looked in my eyes, but you know what the hell I was over him coming at me in common at me, in common at me, in and so scared and I had always know like use like there's a thing he just like you, don't yell and the words again make noise in the woods, Charlie, QUIET and was a member graven sticks and trying to snap em to make a noise and make that dear spook off you know four b, unlike conflicted between

just being scared, shitless and doing do thing. You don't do like as a haunters, you'll learn like don't make loud noises in the woods you may loud. Noise in the woods makes me cringe man bullets, just think about this mature dear. That saw me in freaked out when he saw me. Is that literally a minute before that, because I was down I was down that dear came through with two other dear, and one of arm looked to be. Like maybe a two year old, dear one of whom was baby. What it was like one Europe and the one year old got within fifteen feet, and now I just pinned up again the tree in the one year old, walk right by me had no idea was alive. The other one that was the younger dear walk by me look my direction all the old one looked right at me like fuck this. He knew right away. He had seen people before may be serving their in Iowa, and I was really different, because I was a great

for both hunting, because they have a very short gun season, it's only shot gun saw. You know, get big rifle higher right as a lot of what their dealing with his bow hunters silly and me he might known that add above mean who fuckin I saw a bow and say I see no fuckin thing before somebody shot me and ass with one of those years ago. That's what The thing that, like about Big Box, that you know like that culturally and in this country, were kind of getting words almost like this. They accepted idea that you spoke like hate trophy hunters right but I eat everything I kill and I will even talk about this egg meet Boxing Shooter box right and mean letters like big, huge box at a cool and meet boxy, but I always eat my shooter box. Psychic. Court? Not, I should think back as ITALY once illegal to I love em. We even Patsy Challenge, em, I capacity a five year old dear and in a two year old dear, and you can't Well, you can because you're really going to cover yeah above sanskrit yeah we're leaving

caught it and trim itself their great right yeah. So point being, I do like to look for big animals K. I, like I like it. If I have to dear, and I can go after small undergo after being on, I d go after the big one, one of the things I like about going out they won, and the challenge of it is that they are harder to get and the reason the harder to get is because they have learn from mistakes, a big bach to to tour to a experience hunter. When he sees a big bought. He sees more than the antlers the antlers one up kind of becoming like symbolic of something of a very worthy challenging quarry, because he hasn't made any mistakes. Yeah right, you can have big box in areas that have very low predation and low hunter pressure, and he could get big, instil me some mistakes because he doesn't have as many mistakes that could be made, but a really big boss,

in an area that has little lions, lotta coyoats, wolves human honours he's big because he doesn't has messed up hasn't. Fucked up does a pocket. He remember stuff you know we had occasion to watch the weird in Colorado Mueller this year and we watched Eyeglass up Very nice balcony went up into an aspirin grove used travel, the bunch dose and they all go into an aspirin grove Later Janius was looking above, their needs there's some Kyle's rolling down into that Aspen Grove Raw, the dear one, Is now the middle of the day and his rifle season is better? rifle season on and off through a couple of weeks of hunting season, the Kyle's go into the aspen grove all those dear come pour out at asked the girl I at the time common house seem like some like squeezing tuba toothpaste, the waiter. Dear came shoot, not Aspen Grove,

and ran out across a large sage flat, exposing themselves. The one dear out of the group that didn't work out sage. They didn't walk out about aspen groves the big but never budged. He ran a calculation in his head. Where he's like, I get it you're scared, those Kyle's, I'm afraid of the unknown rather stay in here in my little thicket and he stood we could see him stand up and there s some bitch would not move and it does doing the wrong. So every thing in his body. Saint chased those those and breed those dull. That's all he's thinking about his brief windows. A dumb book were to chase those those, if not for fear the Cairo here to chase the duchess cause for fear that another box gonna go breeding, but he resisted that right. He resisted the fear, the Kyle's, but he's like I know that there is

but when you run on the open shit shoot at you whenever you knew why he just sweated, allow Now why so like he'd an egg and he lived, he didn't Massa big buckle down is also threatening to Cairo, to captured, I'm sure, as part of it yeah sure, as part of both just like he there's a threat instinctively or whatever. Could here's think that they will achieve this that they were not interested, those near they weren't Jason. I noakes ac. They lose bonds to him. All the time They cease to die from both sides. Right now that your cup of causes that that time ear using a drag down healthy, find me order. They were named chased them, but he does like. He knew. You know and that's one of the things I admire about, like the old ones. If you can,

If you go into areas, have heavy hunting pressure inconsistently find those dear it's you know it's like it's the highs challenge comment. I respect it yeah our respect, well it's a very difficult quarry in when you're eating that animal mean there's did there's a completely different sense of not just the com. Meant but connection to that animal than buying some Stake in a store or shooting some button buck out, yet it is its such it lesson things, why is it being such an obvious conversation that it's that you sometimes feel I get some the hair That conversation with people who don't get is like shooting fish in a barrel right. I think so, obviously so easy to yours feel like a little bit like, like almost unfair, bring it out what you like. I'd like to hear the zero rate challenged to chase after big bark is a year. Tell me that somehow you

I, if you eat meat that somehow, though, that the Sis them, by which you but go about getting me to farms and stores and shit like that, is somehow morally aesthetically earth or ethically or somehow superior to me eating and am, but I've haunted myself from a sustainable peace. Population as well managed and that I've been decorated, my home with its parts that will be there until I die and then we'll decorate the whole in terms of my children, it you're Tommy, somehow that I'm like depraved for that, I have a hard time engaging in the conversation. I can't I just don't understand without the mediators. It's ridiculous conversation, it's it's a very short sighted conversation and its part of the problem. The people have so many things going on in their lives there, if you

the job and you have a family and you have some sort- a hobby even eliminated. Ninety percent of your time. How much time do you have to actually immerse yourself and wildlife and understand the politics of it understand what really going on out there in the world? How many people have actually. Seen in overhead view the Pacific Northwest and looked down at all the forest and disk done the calculations and their heads but these animals and how many of them there are and how much the wild West, is filled with animals and doesn't stop people from having opinions course course doesn't there's not educated. Is the reason why the reason why, after all these years, I still have no opinion on Obamacare. I do not understand it saw corner.

I have no opinion now trying to have this infectious result on people work. You all stop talking about shit, they dont fully understood hip and now people have used need jerk opinions there, just they lock. A man like this is as a left wing person. I think this is a right wing person. I think that I think, We pointed out you and I both believe it. That's ridiculous perspective. Black holes are the bit of flattery, please You didn't occurred, retards coming down your day, but I've been railing a lot on the echo chamber that we all live in I think that everyone goes and you look at you. You look at your Facebook fee eater everything's, like we surround ourselves with people. Tell us what we think It is going to become very odd and I think that this presidential election cycle really brought it out where you had just to vat. Lastly different narratives playing out an end

both on each side of feeling, like so absolutely certain that not only where they right, but that everyone felt the way they felt right. Age has been a big part. The national conversation, like the echo chamber, thing what I have found what people listen to your show, who come up to me- and I heard you on Josiah Taliban honour- is that you haven't you ve somehow managed defy that where you have the. The right wing, not jobs and the left wing, not jobs, all this to you. At the same time, in the middle of rotors but like when someone, as I was, isn't the Jordan Progress. My city like like what does that make you and it doesn't mean anything

I don't know just the fact that you listen to it. I don't know what that doesn't. Tell me anything about you other than that you'd like to wrestle with ideas, because this is one of the few place. We were talking about shit and you talk about something bring it up, whereas, like people are willing, because of you in the way you handle it willing to subject themselves the disparate views for a minute, What is the formula, if even thought about it, but it's a nice invention. Just how I look at things. I think I don't You know. I have my rigid lines that I won't cross. You know where I think something is evil or something is ethically wrong, but I'm willing to entertain ideas and I'm not I'm not rigid. If someone comes to me- and they tell me that I'm wrong about something I got really- a calmer. What am I wrong they tell me I'm wrong, I'm like our own fuckin wrong, but who knows like I'm, not married, my ideas and I think that's that's real problem that people have where they define themselves.

By their knowledge, did they their smart or there. They they think they're valuable, because they have a certain amount of information that had nothing. That's crazy, kisses especially as you start getting into more things or get exploring new subjects and new topics. You realize it is impossible to know everything it's not possible, so for you to define yourself by The knowledge that you know or the knowledge you don't know it seems kind of crazy. I think you're far better off. Defining yourself, not even defining yourself but far, better off approach, seeing the world by searching for the truth and not being connected are married to any ideas? It's far too often when people get in these discussions are people and it becomes a game of of what you're trying to win in autumn. The one up the person with information and data and then coming along coming offer that with a victory yeah now with em, and that's what you seeing on all these new shows man. They seem like

One of things that I did during the election was while the debates were going on and post debate, bait bounced back and forth spent an hour and fire new within an hour on CNN and also what is the world but he s so baffling because easier. These are just enforced narrowed. Moves from one side and the other, and I think that the country suffers, because that people suffer because that tribal inclination that I think we have to to support one side or the other, or to adopt these predator, and patterns of behaviour, replete predetermine belief systems or their their oars. It is shameful to switch positions yeah that it's a full year, a flip, flapper like how the fuck do not learn? I mean you can't be right all the time and you can have preconceived notions That turn out to be incorrect and you have to be able to recognise those now, that's good. I enjoy like I enjoy it. Aren't you It's always find ban. We ve never do is more often but

think gum yeah. I mean I'd appreciate that perspective that you have. That you are willing to say, like I, don't have an opinion on Obamacare, because I really don't know enough about it. That's Ets is really healthy and really important and for some reason really rare, especially with a well read person like yourself and may sound loverlike dumber sites on working time as all the time, but I'm I'm willing to say you know. You know, It would be remiss if we end this podcast when discussing the revenant cause. You fall EPA crushed me on that I love that movie. I thought it was bad ass and I found I was all pull shit. I only have continents I gotta leave, but I'll look. I explain now bullshit about the revenue over. So I say my dear friend and colleague, more Foulon of the revenant. I love my he was Tides argues because hoping to combine say every season he's in. Where is he? Listen what do parties and know he's an almond right now in Jordan. So here

he loves because the cinema Toggery and as the end of the conversation for him but he's a cinema tired of her right now, as a student of american history and someone who, whose favorite era is the mountain man era, which which ran oh waited to find them all Araby. It began like the moment, Lewis and Clark, made it back to Saint Louis after their expedition and a man named John Coulter turned around and went back out west to trap, Beaver the mountain, began. One. Could argue that day and it ended, when the last rendezvous was held for the free Travers, which is an eighteen, forty spray short period in time. That's my favorite time period, American, his is the mountain man era, and it was that the great accept AIDS and discoveries and adventures them out men played out The air at West

in the willow, lined riparian zones of the american, great plains and interment Hain valleys by taking the most famous story from the mountain air, which is the mauling by bare of how was his name. Not COLT was named glass. He glass by taking the historian setting it in the b c along the edges of the Boreal forest and a happen, dripping landscape of conifers. Was a was just a distortion of of ever be like if you were making a movie about the people who came when, when Washington and Franklin them, one came to go to draw the american constitution, and you said like in the jungles of Thailand K Psych instead of Philadelphia

just strongly the core earning Hugh glass, not have a child. You didn't have a son who use avenging here ask them all by a bare and left him in the protection of Jim Bridger. A very young, Jim reduce a teenager and another guy. You go ass through much struggled crawled his way back to a fort, and he later confronted Bridger. And said just so. You know body next. I'm someone leaves you to watch guide dying in the woods don't even land around by himself, and that's all he did that's it. It's a story of forgiveness. Now in the movie. He does forgive Bridger who cowards, but then he has to go after the gathered the sun he didn't have, and it's like, if you do of the story as it exists to me. It's like the Bible,

I believe you we're gonna, go film a movie about the Bible, but change real big parts of the added aliens yeah like it was how people felt when I was help is pray. How people felt when last temptation to Christ came up. And had the that the Christ figure lusting fur came in here. The is an abomination right. So for me too, like take parts of of, a story that demonstrates sort of the american landscape and american grit turn it into a British Columbia in the canadian farce with just was insulting to me? What about the fact They fell off a cliff and land tree lot ass, though was off. That's all fake. Now that happened now. A lot of the gate, a rattlesnake he did across sees you stole the he came across a wolf, kill and scattered some parts.

From most worthy is doing scroll crawling decree walk at all. You know- and I will point started- Wabi started out crawling to great story Our done damn movie like that. How to call the crawling person sort like Tom, Hanks and lost railways on the island of is a lot of struggle. Ride like he makes his own teletype machine start sending messages to the rest of the world, and I can see how we're went like I've been around and business nerve, racking seed, it there's there are forces at play. Where are they probably went, and they were saying you know what I get all that shit. You better put a love interests in this. Isn't the waterways somewhere to your experiences in Hollywood, when you were doing your first show now? I mean what was it the way? within, while with India when ice. When I saw you for a show- and then I spoke,

with you about it and in order to tell me like they were trying to like let a most loosen than you would shoot it. There lay a captive moves that, while it is early conversation, I am arouse, try and explain. I'm a yawns pretty hard like lots of stuff, doesn't show up in a guy who lay became friends have lot respect for, but he was needed, dawning and was not was not new to tell and was nude awning, and he was so well ass why they have animal wranglers analysis. One of the early conversations we had. I wound up, Logan bit but yeah. I was. I think, that one of these guess reality. Television in trouble. There's a fake anecdote off until about about two kinds of producers: right, is a producer who would say to you? How would you do that? Whatever you don't need Why take this really small? Will knife very carefully you're, really Della. It little incision right here and they would say great

and then there are ones would go, but could you use machete did you know I know two types of the air and locally. In my career, I have now male to surround myself with with people who Hulu that little small knife what you got Fortunate in that you went to the sportsmen Channel, which gives you who essentially free rein there. They don't mess, showed us that the boy address them. Loved working with them in the way that they have. This allowed us to make a slot acid. Do our own thing There is a lot of trust there there's a leap of faith there and I think we have let him down, but you are, deftly onto that trust, and I think that's one of the reasons. Why shows the first show of its kind, to be on Netflix, and I think it's it, its educating alot of people- it's not just a show that in a shop

into the choir. You know it's not just a chauffeur enthusiast, it's it's a shame, that gives you an insight into perspective into an I think, you're the guy to do it, because I think the ethics that you carry in alike support important distinction like even though legal to use, walk talk, ease and certain things in some places: you don't want to use them and I had this. This thought the other day because those listen to this podcast and these guys discussing differ. Lenses for optics their comparing spotting scopes and they started talking about walkie talkie. They get at it became this combination of things. It guys love because guys were like gadgets intact things. It became tech work in an gadget. Talk mixed with hunting I still think, unlike what one is his ends, it and would drones, does it not in not as an end with would mean what, if we come up with something,

forests? It here aiming its ending withdrawn its ending withdrawn, but it does if knowing absolutely what's sending a drone it flies over? Ok, the herd of Africa's. You know a mile to the left. We can't see. From here because there's a ridge over us, but we can that we know where the wind we can hook around this way get those animals. That is in in your eyes. That's cheating well categorically at this point is illegal. Is illegal in every state now, but every stay where every state The state were really the states where it matters because of Heaven like open country, it is. Is becoming, and it's not you not gonna, be it's not Have I mean some states round, frothing thirteen or fourteen states have banned drones, much greater. They got out in front of it. Now certain came out of nowhere and two way. Communication is something where a lot of you some states and are not talkin, like liberal, saw,

These states, man, Montana Lascaux, can't used to make communications on because they decided that that's where you draw the line, because They might even discuss an ethics thing, but it is something that goes back to the great conservationists and writer Elder Leopold where he had said, though, we spend a lot energy, improving the pomp, but not the well sir, so we have a resource, Wherever a resource of wild animals- and if you just, work on improving ways to to pump them out. Without also working our ways of. Improving the well and having there be a stable population m you're, gonna drain that ain't? Well, so we're looking at. As emerging technologies come out right, you have caused. Ask yourself with increased of efficacy like if we get it, or technology means that every hunter is always successful What will the wine of meaning for while they populations is knocking them?

diminishment of wildlife populations, it'll mean a tremendous, diminishment of Honduras. Opportunity you lot like a lot of over the counter publicly and eloquence Numerical West are about ten or twenty percent success rates. So give out a hundred licences, you're gonna, kill about fifteen out the is a buzz don't you get a hundred guy's an opportunity if you Success rates at a hundred percent, homey daisy you're. Now fifty right these ills, it's it's not like you're talkin about ethics, but you're also talking about access in power knowledge, but for you personally, aren't you also talking about the way makes you feel you, because I think it makes everything hey guys issues of behind high fence? They not defence, has never in the picture in guys it radio, haunt the goddamn radios and never in the photographs, rise, re use

you guys. Then there were ten people in the photo, and you know that nine of them were up on glass and tits with radios. Video on the guy in, but they sure should I weren't headsets in the picture, so they can't get to that they're, not proud of it right like I would like a one way to to look at things from years. I'm, like Is it something you cannot talk away when it's all over? Is something celebrated the guy south over the boat s. Somebody boas lane on top of the animal always to add over a year ago, the guy- maybe maybe now nauseatingly, doesn't matter days. I knew I open my gardener might now is not the point again. Never lays out a walkie talkie intolerable, that's very takes photograph is very true. I gotta go that's it mediator it's available on Netflix thirty. How many episodes thirty to thirty

who episodes mediator on Instagram Stephen Vanilla on Instagram and on Twitter, yet go there and you can also go to the meat, eater dot com and by all kind downloads. Next time. We going wish programme rivals a lover, Who speaks of buying and has been issued out? May I go we gotta get together we're going together. Do thank you. Brother, presided by everybody, see tomorrow John Jones, hollow deck here, but if a tune into the podcast in key to our sponsors. Thanks to movement, watches, go to M p m t, watches, dot com, Ford, Slash, Rogan and you'll get fifteen percent off with free shipping and free returns, and that's fifteen percent. Often already very reasonable price for excellent watches, em the empty, watches, dot, com, Ford, Slash, Rogan again I, absolutely where one of these watches all the time I'm actually gonna, where one tonight bitch what's up we're all.

Brought to each and every episode. By on it go to an end. I t use the code, Word Rogan and save ten percent off any and all supplements, Thank you too Caveman Coffee, Caveman, coffee, c, o dot com go there and check out awesome coffee that they sell like this stuff, that I've got right here? The cave man, coffee Nitro, which I got a whole shelf. My refrigerated dedicated to these bitches we're gonna, get it. Aggerawayter when we get the new joint woe, exciting, really fuckin puffed! That's that's hard enough. Over carbonated heart tuna beats per minute is kept keeping you: gotta keep getting caveman coffees, Yoda COM, musical word, rogue in and save, but ten percent sure on pressure to pressures ten percent go, there came a coffee seo. Dotcom covert. Rogan

as it is if it today? Thank you very much to an end thanks everybody, and tomorrow we have one of the best fighter on the planet, Earth John Motherfucking Jones and that should be a very interesting podcast. John Jones. One big fan of reached out reach out to us and down once to come on and talk about all the controversies in his life and clear the air and gets an elm should be fun. So that's tomorrow, then, on Friday, my friendly camp, the camp, who was, I put a photo on Instagram yesterday, I was passed by the laugh factory. I was pleasantly surprised to see that Lee has a billboard billboard for a show rejected, which is on our teeth, so that'll be on Friday. God damn what a full week, then you think that's. It know that

on it, then, on Saturday, a fight companion. Oh yeah, that's right with the full gang Eddie. Bravo Brennan job and variety and mother Bordentown. That should be a great great time. That's Saturday, seven P M Pacific time, then, I will rest, but until then I'll see you guys tomorrow noon noon, most likely John, I might work out first and then pie justly we're gonna figured out. Keep your posted. Alright guy see em.