« The Joe Rogan Experience

#897 - Hunter Maats

2017-01-10 | 🔗
Hunter Maats is the co-author of "The Straight-A Conspiracy" and also co-host of The Bryan Callen Show podcast available on iTunes.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
february seventeenth and eighteenth i will be at levity live in oxnard california and marched third i'm gonna be it the car theatre at the empty em in las vegas and then on april twentieth for twenty two shows in portland first one sold out at the arlene she knit sir concert all this episode of podcast is brought is brought to you by movement watches you wanna slick watch and you don't want to pay a fuckload money but you want to watch it looks like you paid a fuck money most atomic buying things and we found this out about so many different products on the internet you you're paying retail middle man money there's a lot of work if you buy something it's x amount of money huh what percentage of that goes to the fact that they have to say in a store they have to leave a big ass bill higher salespeople all that shit all its
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and tools together in the form of our new iron man waits we have an iron man kettlebells we have new marvel marvel shit we have captain american yield barbell plates which might be the dope is fuckin wait plates euro senior goddamn life there killer their captain america shields that are actual barbell plates how about them apples and they go up to his eyes forty five pounds yeah and we'll get you have complete sets available to have a two hundred ten pound complete set and to an ten pound complete set with barbell soon get so all and of course the iron man
care about which is new the iron mantell bell is sluggish yet i love it ah it saw forty pounds and it's perfectly balanced excellent room in the handle and it's fuckin iron man brow not set go to the academy link if you're interested in what it is all about enable give you the best example the best looking at this iron man we so cyclopean it'll give me the best damn the best definition of what on it is all about if you go to the on academy link you go section the site that has two hundred and thirty seven now pages of awesome work out great articles the science behind nutrition and exercise physiology motivational articles work out of the day and there's a physical on an academy which is in austin texas which is an
some state of the art jam with excellent instruction and tenth planet jujitsu we have a shoe ups up laments strengthen conditioning equipment like battle robes steel mesa's wooden indian clubs wait vests all kinds groovy shit too much dimension go to on a dot com that is oh and an eye tee use the code word rogan and you will save ten percent off any and all supplements my guest today is hunter motts hunter months is brian cowen co host and brian cowen show and he's bad motherfuckers very smart guy very interesting guy and we had a good conversation and i hope you please give it up for hunter months will gain experience
yes my lord put up onto are you doing i'm doing good now that we're actually live she feels more formal we're just talk about crazy some of the people and brian counts passion what does the like do in his show man you you guys you like cars you keep them on the level well yes i mean what happened was that a couple of years ago brain and i were talking about books and brain had just started doing his podcast at that point and i you know you sort of interviewing strippers lot of strippers or like porn stars or like you know mme guys and that is fine but you know i was like brian if you enjoy these books so much why don't we get on some of these professors and he was like really like prefer this would talk to me and i said well you know what your download numbers and you know he told me them i went off and i like the professors and link doubled or tripled them area so do it and then you know
the result they were all like that's great cause if you are a new york times best selling author you usually have an audience of three and so a chance to like actually reach a decent number people than yeah you're gonna come on this weird podcast your like i've heard of podcasting what is that why not right and so we started getting all of these professors and academics and scientists and all that stuff on and you know that sort of being the journey and were now two hundred plus episode then yeah that's brian loves that kind of stuff but i was so like how can we never talk about that on stage he just wants to be captain silly face age if we're joe are we willing to wandering dark dark place that is brian cowen mind dark place yeah are we you too you ready go their job in their don't get my member so i mean a lot of it comes down to brien's own personal insecurities like he loves it but he does it feel confident engaging with him
i wish they disagree with that i would say that he's just his comedy he prefers to be silly you know because like there's a differ dream cavity in mind brien's mine especially between what's really funny and what's really deep right you know he doesn't find deep things to be very fond he's not he doesn't mean he's when he gets into deep subjects he qana gets into them just for what they are and not like tries to translate those in the comedy yes i make sense it does make sense i mean but part of what i've seen across the course you know these two hundred episodes think that brian cowen is growing finally like whatever eighty is there at five hundred and fifty five there is tomorrow yeah there's the new starting to be in evolution and part of it is just sort of having actually talk to some of the smartest people in the world he's like all these are
people and you know they know certain ideas that i didn't know and now i know them and you know maybe i can and has even started experimenting with you particularly got really excited we had a guy called joe henrik on who wrote this great book called the secret of our success which is all about cultural evolution how cultural evolution works and what things he talks about in their is you know why do we have black people why do we have white people and you know it comes down to vitamin d in full late all these allegations vitamin where you ve i remain honest i shall allow spent a lot of time in england and they got rid of most of my act but there are weird were in the country like vitamin and bein and so sometimes people think i'm canadian which let us not because they literally can't place it besides story when i was when i first went to college you know i wanted to major linguistics for a while and i met with my linguistics professor and he sits me down and we're having a conversation just like this and then all of a sudden he stops me
just like you didn't and he says wait a minute and he proceeded to like asked me this really fucking bizarre questions like he's like if you and jane or in a race and john comes fifth and jane comes and afterwards what position does jane come in and i was like sixth and he goes british receipts alike to all of these tasks to basically spot my accident sixth sixth there's no asses yeah yeah it's super weird and ethnic met such is the other one they don't say medicine they say madsen ah sir by sick wow that's interesting that's interesting because the sound is really a k and then an area even though we representatives and acts so he basically had although these tests and he figured out pretty quickly that i was trying to passes in america like sorry white boy not so much how long did you live in england for ten years ten years till your ten from the age of eight until eight tokay
so if you were in england so you started out without adding saxo yap by its so you learned english here and then when you started speaking in england did you sense that you are shifting overturning while and i sort of fine i fought it ran his gazetted what happens is that people naturally sort of start to you know you're in a tribe and you start to like up the values and the speech patterns in all its four to suffer the tribe and you know i really thought of myself as american enlargement because i identify with my mom more than my dad and so what happened was that you know i was like a british and creeping in and so i bought that with everything that i could but in spite of fighting the acts it with everything i could these words lit like being and vitamin and medicine and sick that i wasn't watching for that no ordinary person would watch for crept into my mind is always interesting to me there's an added insight that you get from people that come from
another country and then live in america there's something different about like oh guys aren't know how weird this fuckin place guy now i've been scotland i live there you know like those people have a different insight very different insight also i think we are so established in america in in so far as thinking that this is how people live in the world i is where you go you go to bear gang it's right over there you get on the highway its right to be here and we see our landscape and we see our cityscapes and we see it as being normal if you don't go to another country we don't go all this is normal to normal for them all this
over them the others you really need to be there and i think that's another does absorb a bull from a dvd no anne and part of it is a mean this is a large part of what we ve been doing and what joe hendricks work is about is the fact that you know when you're in a tribe whatever that tribe is whether its america or christianity or mormonism or is law more minos some popular guinean in the foothills of you know papa guinea whatever you do you're like that's our way that's just the way things are done you dont question it right the tribe creates the sense that this is what normalcy is and then the second you go outside the tribe whatever that tribe is you're suddenly like all our tribe is fuckin we
there are other ways of doing things and that that sort of being a large part of like the experience it brian i had growing up because brien's dad was my dad's boss that's i've in the first place that i went after i was born in saudi arabia was brian's house like that while i went to brien's house and so for the last you know and then we moved around and we moved to different places he did you know the philippines reno whatever whenever wherever i did saudi arabia greece brazil england now my parents mute france and libya and the usa and then i came to the u s so so moving constantly between tribes like that was a large part of my experience growing up the kid was i was constantly like people are all the same and yet they're fucking different and how does that work and because i come from the background of science my first response was like a while there must be science of
this right why not go and look at that science and see what the science says about that turns out there is a massive amount of science all about it yeah there's a massive amount of science all about in itself fascinating when you stop and think that there are some people on i'm sure you ve seen the most recent photos of that uncontacted tribes now contacted seriously in the amazon like really recently over the last couple we know it's amazing yeah really cool i mean these people were there they don't have american sometimes a sea like these tribes their deep in the amazon with them like a cook satellite get their ears some sort of interaction with these people there's none there's been no interaction with the west they have stick bows they have made and the other all barefoot now wearing leaves and shit it's you know then these people very here they are trotted along two thousand seventeen and here i think
fifty sixty thousand years ago they probably reliving exactly the same way you up and the woods fascinating is just the degree to which those people have so much to teach us cuz you know a lot of what happened you know in the beginning of the enlightenment is that you know if you look at lock and rousseau and all these guys they're trying to imagine the state of nature but their group of people who are sitting around in europe it never met somebody from the amazon or someone from papua new guinea and now we really have a pretty good idea of what what was life like before civilization and and its i mean it's pretty damn fascinating chaired diamond has this great book the word
until yesterday which is literally all about life before civilization and water the things that we can learn as moderns from these people what are the things they get right that we get wrong but what was his examples well he has there's a bunch of interesting ones when my favorite ones is constructive paranoia so what happens when you have tribes people and they go outside of their village suddenly become massively paranoid like incredibly paranoid and he's like you know these people are more paranoid than your average new york jus right like suddenly wandering around the forests and their like shit is this tree gonna fall down where can we sleep like they go and they checked the trees they look for footprints oh my god are those the footprints of vetoes some other tribe like what's going on what does that sound and he's like what is this paranoia about for a long time he thought this paranoid paranoia was just miss place that it was an appropriate but then he had this experience where he had a couple of experiences one
which was around you know somebody some other tried that was potentially trying to kill him in papua new guinea and then the other one was around he basically you know is getting on this boat and you know if you're in the west and you get on a boat at the new york port authority or whenever you feel like this boat safe like there are safety rules probably someone would check it whatever so he gets on this boat boat goes out into the ocean unlike cap sizes and sinks and he almost on to death and its basically because these kids who are running the boat were running it way too fast and the water kept sloshing over the side and high ways and a certain point there's so much water in the boat that the boat goes down these and you know when you're in that kind of environment one of these societies that doesn't have protections and doesn't have rules and all its were stuff being paranoid a super smart it's the most appropriate thing you can do and he then talks how you know he's in seventy eight year old man he's like i need to be more paranoid because the right
quality is if i go down it's probably because i slip in the shower you there are all these things that can actually kill me in my environment that i sort of take for granted because my world seem so safe and so one of the things you learn from that is is that paranoia as a tool and run other than a lot of people have trouble with paranoia where their indiscriminately paranoid but the key is figuring out what to be paranoid about when to be paranoid so that your hyper alarm alert to threats or totally make sense yeah mean that their vote vulnerable there so soft and fleshy most of their bodies exposed in and around all sorts of different poisonous they and predatory things cats and dogs and spy there is and what the hell's out there and if you break a leg in the jungle on your done there and that's the point as they don't have the luxury of oh i was you know not paying attention and cross that i dropped a barbarian my foot i go to the doctor i'm out for a few months now deal yeah shorter life
doesn't seem like nearly is fun if one of the interesting thing is that in many ways it is actually more fun because they have such a strong like you know part of what we don't have an obviously part of what your creating with your podcast in what we are trying to create on a smaller level with our podcast is tribe right like we you know a strong sense of community a group of people that you belong with you know you're at in it together all of that sort of stuff and you know american he critically talks about the elderly in only talks about what is the experience of the elderly in a tribe and you know you're super valuable until death everybody respects the shit out of you you always have things to contribute to a tribe what do we do with out the elderly hearing stick em in a fucking old persons home and leave him to write no they don't have that sense of belonging to a sense of purpose late in life do you think that's a sheer volume thing it's almost like we dont value life as much because we're overwhelmed by it rightly we're talking to the last point cast about the number of people in america today verses when i was a kid yet
was fourteen there was we figured there was two hundred and thirty two was it twenty five to twenty five million now there's a hundred million plus more just sheer vote seems like if we live in a small town and there was some guy that we know we really loved and he was starting to die would want to take care of them right but if it's that cry ass all its down the hallway your apartment building in every behalf too that dude because there's a thousand people in your apartment building that you never talk to write well part part of it is at the ingenuous there's what's called the dunbar number and the dunbar number you know it's like ones the dunbar number and the dunbar number you know it's like one to fifty one fifty and then there are serious to explain that without as for people haven't heard the assets it's very simple aid that the easiest way to understand it as facebook right like you may have four thousand friends on facebook but then you constantly find like who
fuck are these people that i friend it in some sort of like rending phrase almost like a song yet work now hopefully not hurt you're pretty bad i think that if things go take up but you you find that like oh i only really know a few of these people the majority of them my brain can track right and you even get into that experience like that's what i always find fascinating you run into someone you haven't seen in a long time right on the street and your kind of a voice the interaction monsieur le we are therefore going to ask for a year and you also then if you like really get into it then you have to like dust off the relationship we have to invest fucking exhausting right so there's there is real limit to like how many people any one human brain can handle isn't it more sort of like the top nine on my space where we might think it wasn't nine and visit and i and people yeah when were you ever top nine and laugh those those people the euro pretty with yet have you boys friends the top nine will there
there's a series of dumb low numbers right in and there's like you know there's essentially like two or three people who are like you would tell anything to write and then their sort of like your top nine right you're sort of like we're cool we can all go hang out if i was gonna have a bachelor party these are the people i would invite ran and then you know you sort of get onto larger and larger circles one fifty is sort of the size of a tribe but then you know even though there is one fifty there's no whatever four thousand people five thousand people whose like you'd recognise their face like an old totally fucking know you yeah yeah so there's there's a series of all these things but whatever the numbers are it's not seven billion clothes yeah what's what s interesting about small towns there's a theirs and a feeling in small towns of an invasion invasion of your privacy who as much as there is a feeling of camaraderie there's also a god knows venus yeah so like we there's two thousand people
living in an apartment building nobody wants no shit about any yeah but if it's two thousand people living in a town that's the whole town and everybody needs to know everything about everybody else that but that the boy period ends up and what about that brian cowen always whack you want i would ask everyone and exchange information were an and gossip is what dunbar as work is really about so his big book is grooming gossip and the origins of language and so dunbar's whole thesis is the big question is always being like why do we talk right like wider humans have language what is the function of language and what dunbar did was he basically looked at what's the natural group size of different primates right so you know there's a natural group size for apes fortune pansies and you know or
and hands and all this for the stuff and what ends is happening is that when you if you're chimps right you know you can groom all the members of your tour of your troop right that's not a big problem but if you're troop is a hundred fifty people like it is for humans there's no way you can physically groom all of those people so becomes too many people physically groom so essentially the ideas that language is how we groom each other without having to do it physically and that's what gossip is about it's really that were alike rooming each other where maintaining social relationships and were trading infirm nation about whose trustworthy who's not trustworthy who did what too who and passing information around in the tribe a total make sense yeah made seems also when you think about how women are really into gaza being chatting words men really appreciate quiet and then get up people to flashy young it's about men going off in a hunting parties right up in the women's
back in going this crazy motherfuckers known when no one is going to have to try to assess what the dangers are their environments yep and specifically men like you're saying about like making sure that nobody is getting to flashing that's i mean you that's a real function of teasing right the real function of teasing is is that you know if you look at these hundred gather tribes who have all these mechanisms for making sure that nobody's head gets to back right so for example you know little do things where for example i'll give you my arrow and you'll go hunt with my arrow so then even if you kill a dear it's actually not your kill because it was done with my arrow it's everywhere everybody's kill so and then also you know when they for example they have all these rituals when someone is elected the big man of the tribe or whatever it is they will then all the we'll get around and make fun of him right no sort of humiliate him and it's a sort of proto democracy its away of like keeping him
his ego in check so this is what doll travers avoiding the exact this is his hands avoiding this inevitable reality of being marked so mad it out baldwin will any should he should embrace it i mean that's right he should because i mean that its that's if for his social function right the leader social function is to be humble rain because we u no power corrupts like that's what it does you human psychology that's enough donald trump that's just a function of the human brain right and you know that we we know that mean that's you know that's being studied now there's a guy at burke add you see berkeley dagger counter whose also awesome whose studied power and specifically you know there's this old quote from lord act and power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely he went and studied that and he got more specific and he found out the paradise to things that makes people more impulsive and it makes them less sympathetic so it makes people good impulsive and bad impulsive in the sense that you'll have celebrity
it will be like i'm given away all my fuckin money your life outspoken dumb or like wesley's nights had that great idea like i'm just gonna do not pay taxes writing in his defence and he just got one those wacky attorney general there some loophole in the constitution they don't want this constitution loopholes will the mattel something that they found out and no one has to pay taxes will make goes down people there's a lot of people who actually had a conversation with me oh you're telling me that you don't have to pay taxes and that the cost she says that in time we supposed to pay taxes is during war and that's when they came up with fair taxes in the first place and it's not legal that's why they can't really charge with it if you just resist like bitch they will put you in it take all your money and they put you in a cage up where there is a war time there's two really fascinating thing it comes to money that's really fascinating one is that if you do don't they
your taxes is one of those debts where it doesn't matter you go to fucking j like you jail jelly take everything you have they not even if you have no ability to pay it when you get out you still owe it whom you go to jail that's fascinating just pay just pay it off its knowledge oh you owed fifty thousand hours back taxes no you fuckin lied to us about paying money so now you go to jail you weren't honest so it's not just you all the money now you pay it now you're clean not gonna let you go to jail we take all your money and you get out and you had made my along time and now you gotta get back on their feet and fuck you yes fuck you and the other time the peers you as student loans so one thing that you can't fucking go bankrupt wealth that's it horrible death the worst idea ever saddled down young impulsive children who are just getting out of there parents grasp saddle i'm down with debt and then have them entering to a diminishing job market if you start off some
in two thousand sixteen point of the fucking odds especially with tech related that anything he learns gotta be applicable in four years well i mean if you want to talk about the universities some i mean you know there's this there's a ship that is sinking pretty damn fastened a whole lot of that yet having jordan peterson on your podcast you guys before i had a mind and i've been paying attention to his work for a long time one of the few people that are out standing out there in the river scream you know i mean that's what he's doing is like this is you guys are this is madness that right you guys are being honest about things here did you see this recent thing women's march who was in the new york times near separating the women by color and white women being told to check their privilege yeah in this march whereas it is undermining shuns privilege we're gonna find a c i put it up on my twitter pull it because it's fucking hilarious and this is some fringe newspaper that our times printing this and
michael shermer posted it women's i on washington opens contentious dialogues about let's does the war was the headline that was on my twitter thing about it is at the house lights hilarious link it what shermer said to pray just racism now dividing women by skin color whites told to check your privilege get the fuck out of here and that's why you were talking about with power and power corrupting that is power that's one thing that's going on with this social justice worry movement is not just people decide saying that some people should be more ethical or kind or loving are open a progressive not enough it's exert said giant problem that's what jordan peterson's fighting well in its the power of a just cause right ok you're fighting racism you're fighting sexism like these are things to fight i am i'm all down with you but the the fact that
these are things to fight i'm all down with you but the the fact that you know if if you have any problem with it right jordan petersen takes issue of course no less i saying that and as the stupid game they play exactly they try to paint you into a corner in slovenia asleep no less i saying that in that the stupid game that they play exactly they try to paint you into a corner in seriously with their opening stay and while you're a big it so in all ahmed egg what's really going because we disagree on things i'm a big it yeah and if you look it i mean i led the argument i think critically about pronouns it really comes down to a linguistic one in the sense that you know words or tools right and so if you look if you want to talk about pronouns look at english in the timing expire right they had this this thing vow right whose another pronoun and then they got the fuck rid of it right and why do they
read of it because there are like man doesn't really add any signs good when you say to thine cells algeria sounds pansy but it's not it doesn't practically add anything right right though it was it was it's the same thing as the romance languages were the distinction between formal and informal you an essentially we decided we didn't need that distinction so that pronoun dropped away and in general that's what has happened over time that's a big part of new joe hendricks work is that land simplifies over time the tools become more and more powerful and more refined in the same way that say a stone tools you see the early stone tools there shit and then over time they get more and more elegant and more refined the same thing has been happening with language for the entirety of human history they get whittled down so what the fuck do you think happens if you introduce seventy gender pronouns well you might equality in my fuckin raises three hundred pieces shall share
forget it you i've that's problem shows for guys like us we have so much privilege like we're gonna be there like checking it s like half an hour and well are you did he have we have to even out the world that we do the world must be evened out so there is no more petition by the way which is one of the more hilarious people that actually think that their communist just shut your mouth but if you are and he's really do subscribes i guarantee you not contributing healing while as hip is that always once we d never bring some come on man that's all share about you bring your own we you forgot they never have it right that's the communist people that we really into the idea of communism and on theory everybody sharing and not worrying about money though be great clues the three of us through the only people in the world is my example it i would love to use if those are three us and there is like three million dollars in the world and we also bold sawdust split it up like and then money won't be nothing just what is trade back and forth and everything should be even ok cool and we'd be fine with that
can we go on about our mary way but there's too many fucking people and is inevitably get him it's gonna be some form of competition and in some form competition some people get out ahead and it's gonna be some people that are upset that people are ahead we all sorts of reasons some people going to be at their head because our assholes some people going to bed because dig it up five o clock in the morning while you sleep too fuckin noon that's to these are all some people that are totally ethical and they just do a lot of work and do better yeah they're going to do better they didn't steal from anybody didn't hurt anybody up but this narrative keeps getting repeated by people who don't get up at seven o clock in the morning or don't have the same kind of ambition or feel bad because some people do want to fuck private jet and fly all over the world and ball again those areas is all these things are true i mean it's it's both things it's like you can be in
legal person and be like a super ambitious crazy person wants to succeed in business for some reason there not mutually exclusive no so when everybody says capitalism is evil if the problem man no no you saying that is a problem it's not a problem the whole reason when you have a fucking laptop to complain on is because of capitalism right and the point is that the the lesson of twenty sixteen is that there are a lot of shit ideas out there and there should ideas spread all around the political spectrum right here and there i think the challenge of twenty seventeen is how do we kill those ideas but also in the defence of the people there anti corporate anti corporation there is an issue when these own gigantic groups get together in their own me they're only motivation is coring more money every year right that does become a problem and then there's a defeat no responsibility when you're a locked into that giant system and yours the middle manager of some exxon group that fuckin kill and seals and you know give a shit in all those portion
why are they live in the art of getting its world oil is stupid forgets videos covered under the oil you know i'm yet it becomes that right it becomes you're just apart the saying but look out and be w drives itself guy we get out hamptons everybody's happy and that's problem do so there's there's two problems there's this well there's a million of them yet that's that is a problem with money too it's like might there the issue might be corporations in itself might be a problem like like that is a power thing like your target an absolute power will look the problem is not power per se its unchecked power right right
and so i mean the founding fathers understood that that's why you had you no checks and balances and the problem is is that a lot of the checks and balances on you no intellectuals right what's happening at universities have broken down right and then checks on corporations which is government right is broken down and the check on government is the people and it's broken down and so what's happened is it a lot of the checks and balances have failed in the ultimate check and balances the people but the problem is that you can't get the wisdom of crowds if the crowd is unwise and it's not real big brown eleven and sell goods statement and that the problem is that a large part of this disease or large historical forces namely specialization so you know if we get you know the three hundred million people in him it's not that everybody's is an idiot right it's that oh your lawyer and you know the law and you know nothing else right or you are a teacher and you know your subject you know history you know whatever right or if you go and
academia and you talk to a bunch of scientists you'll find oh you know your sub discipline of psychology of biology of chemistry of whatever and literally nothing else that is happening in science so the problem is that when that happens is if you look at the founding father they they read really really widely and no i was recently involved in intellectual dispute with some libertarians right and so i went to libertarianism dot org just run by cato institute mosey intellectual dispute regarding so might the big beef that i've been taking as with fundamentalists across the board across the board i dont really
the care i don't really care what kind of fundamentalist you are i have an issue with fundamentalism in general and if you look at what you were just doing joe is is that you were able to hold two contradictory thoughts in your mind right i think is important rans incredibly important you are able to say there is a problem with people who oppose capitalism and there is a problem with much of what corporations are doing and then that's how you know you start to figure out reality is your like oh fuck there these two opposing things how do i reconcile them and you have to go around thank you to read your talk people you have to do all that herself fundamentalists are burdened with that problem they have a much easier time because they know that they are the good guys they know that their is one thing that is the answer to all of our problems and that there is one thing that is bad and whatever that bad thing is that we can just get rid of that bad thing than all of our problems will be solved
and then they go about figuring out how to strip away more and more and more of that bad thing right so you look at the obvious example is islamic fundamentalism there like it's the way of the prophet we just have to live the way of the prophet mohammed and so then we have to strip out anything that interferes with that like toothbrush and kites and women's education where driving raggedly only problematic things right and you know it's not that the prophet mohammed didn't have a toothbrush it was just a stick toothbrush and you know i'm not dentist but i think that an oral b is better than a stick to domestic here they had like sticks though that we're like bristled the end or something and they would break up the stick men vienna just get that stick in their yeah mostly used today to this day well if you send to summon moms yeah wow i go super super deep yeah well exactly that's the point it is always about going super super deep and it is not the case with christianity and all religions that is there's people that are just you know i kind of like
zero christians is unusual that are casual muslims and then this we were there the whole hog that's rain think that does the reckonings coming jesus is on his way and that's right better pack your bags because you got any clothes and haven't like these people that are packed and ready for jesus take them away and those people give the rest of christine and here the rest of his long bad name but they also give us amazing movies behind and left behind the two of you seen them with their current cameron's greatest work they are good and radical work of comedy that he didn't know was comedy while you may go dude it's so bad have you seen it left behind and left by two it's so good i bought it on many tests i sought at walmart snatched it up like a greedy child i'm gonna write this last year i left by two i'm sure we can probably get it on like i too or should i say this on itunes or netflix find out where people can watch because it's fucking
unbelievable that you tube amazon video work ass an it was based on these cataclysmic books there were written by these loony tune dude is it one loony to induce her to loony to induce that road the left behind series he's christian gus the way they ve sold like a hundred million copies of the delicate shit so dark about me yeah what's up to get to guys but i might have here and second each other off and i made the gay don't get mad gay man don't soom amsterdam books amazing books there were still a very bad thing you know i'm gonna be i'm never forget some of kurt cameron's best one that growing pains as best work is avoiding digs how is this it oh wow it's amazing others but the system
yeah this is kind of a tiger for the fact that this is made in two thousand and that's a cinematography like that's really impressive adorable he's adorable religious have you seen the one we are re comfort whose his body in all these videos describes banana as an atheist work worse now are we how wonderful that amazing outlets which one avignon that's his right hand man like these i got designed to banana vernon specific purpose this bananas and these night what ok but what is called the thought had a colored events are more nutritious that bananas guess you can't face foolishly beating bananas she like one of many day their sugar ok really shouldn't be bananas re but wouldn't the amazing if you manage to convince christians that like you know actually instead of the eucharist you should be eating bananas we know some people to believe bananas like schubert ollinger potassium something to him but a coconuts better for you and you gonna break that fuck it
no i've been getting it through that husk yannick somebody had to figure out that husk yeah and then in the hard part you oughta be so hungry banging on a broad and then luckily for you there's meat and water inside like well what are the odds you had to do a lot of what i bet it was probably somebody who's loved one was killed by a falling cocoanut and got fuckin pissed smell that cocoanut with a rock thinking that coconut killed there mom or some who killed there mom with that fucking cocoanut that two hundred fifty people die every year because cocoanut foreigner had what a way to go to one people in america by marm toddlers every year i think what would you rather go by cocoanut or toddler cocoanut take a drop in iraq and i had been all day to be shot by a one year that's really just a one year old you like why
i know you're tired why'd you leave a loaded onto your personal crazy and now you get mom but maybe you should i keep that guy your hip relieved and purses namely the kids with the guns and the kids porto i seen anti a ban and they shoot mommy twenty one people here think that that's that's not a good way to go but in general i may do that's too a month yeah bang one just pray heaven now it's like visit a timer that's gone off like we're waiting in the slowest national dialogue back we should have arm tat or you get a notification and every time an arm toddler kills a person twenty one year just in this country where i think proper we primarily in this country folks get on that who are out promote your app please sit i lied to me tat man instagram make that app or promoted the arm
toddler app margaret wilmot toddlers shootings in two thousand fifteen only thirteen specific killed more oh my god is at its thirteen had inadvertently killed themselves thirteen kids have killed themselves of firearms thirteen more injured themselves ten your other people and to killed have also as i too this is this thursday mammals tyler's killed more americans and terrorists in two thousand fifteen but we're how many they kill it says they only killed two to account other p or to killed other people so toddlers thirty later they were suicide bombers who killed her that's the point okay so when you saying that they killed fifteen people thirteen those fifteen they yeah that's not the same right that's not them but i've read
where is this where you getting this from was on smoking arm toddlers due notice didn't we talk about snobs but the guy married a hooker think yell you're the guy who own snobs left his wife married a hooker who had a website that active escort website with reviews as recently as two thousand fifteen people review so nothing rabin hooker now at school but it's the oldest profession but when i think about a dude marrying a hooker i think about a dude whose off the rails wearing duties these who marries an escort like he might there's a fifty fifty chance that guy the out of his fuckin my so like one of the criticisms of snobs during this election was that it wasn't there is a pro hilary biased to some of the information that snubs is reporting on an appeal lee she had been involved in some sort of an anti bush anti saloon anti republic
website in the past and in a wins left told you deal so snobs mobility worthy or not maybe beside all those things they still stick to the two sides one other thing i mean you know wouldn't it be nice of people actually stuck to the seller six the facts reality i would weigh rather have someone who goes off a merry some crazy s court lady and they both to ecstasy every night but when it comes down to this what i do solid worked as unbailed allow are about all this husband and wife now married and that's the only ego go happy happy couple have a good time began smile and gives a shit if you get paid for sex palazzo goddamn prude that's when she was at our best to preserve creek i mean that's also like the weird thing always with like fundamentalist than like what mary virgin like d you want somebody has some experience does when the old wife though this what she's mad due to their she mad
this feeling i mean just ass she yeah where again see i want wanna know someone's experience for sure you want someone who's worked out all the tooth blow job so that when they get to you they know what they're doing right in his there much of a difference between a woman who gets paid for each individual sexual encounter verses won't amerika guy from mine which is pretty much the same thing called the same thing yet yeah i mean just have one john for life there are at least until your looks run out anti castro exec millie up grassy number four exactly those guys like that's that's the trap move soup rich dudes dickie keep bauer and more bawler wives but the new one is like god damn well but at a certain point like it that's the problem he can't really i don't he can't replaced wanna novelties president with hotter one bia yes you do you think you can figure the eyes the king of the assholes thank i think of them
have you come out of the closet as assholes yeah you know what i mean this is a rare time what's not just that he doesn't know represent a lot of people there wanted to lean more rights and also represents a lot of men that a kind of dicks yeah right right they get excited about this disease is just definitely more overt asshole leash behaviour in the name of tromp yap in out like he's tapped into that way which i didn't really see i don't remember seeing that from any other candidate ever well i think you know that frustration has been building a lot for a long time when those guys they didn't get their representation that's got kicked his wife out if she's at some stupid oh oh she said i'm tired of his breath yeah fuck him to accede to the curve and i mean people get j wherever donald get a new one or it be like a gigantic like nationwide woman hunt defined
the perfect person who just just knows do what she told the r and d just adjusted obey the donald and is to take care of them and as long as she doesn't look too much like a vodka right scott cod is fuck yeah sure mean he's a goddamn present and that's it and his wife is artists fox on he's gonna go down now he's neo yet alas has only to go down and age because it keeps going up right he went with his first then we might milo papers maples she super hot and in this way is even more super yet this one's off the charts eastern european women about whether i think actually like a large part of it is i think also cultural writin there's a certain like arrogance that eastern european women have where their sort of like who are you like our you good enough for me there's a throne haughtiness right and a certain scepticism like
availability emotionally your racist what he's all i'm i'm such a naturalist nobody speaking about culture this is outrageous well do you want to of outrageous conversation i mean you seem like a guy who likes them i do yeah i do but do you think because of the war a lot of those russian man died and the war i mean there is a mass culling of males frame it's already a much much older phenomenon in the war right so in terms of cultural lucian the way that cultural evolution works as we all have certain mindsets right so every human has optimism and pessimism rain but for example we talked about americans earlier writin how outside or see americans and americans or a you know historically massively optimistic even alexis to tocqueville when he came here red french guy comes here he's like americans are so optimistic what is up with that right troika gas on well but it is i mean honestly like because there are
some has certain benefits which is that it makes you super productive right super happy and these have always been a large part of what american successes about but optimism does have a problem which is that optimism has a tendency to me you delusional right ah problem that's a problem and so if you look at what is the most optimistic group of humans on the planet its actors and loss angelus right aren't i really the most optimistic you think why think the people who were to move to allay right you have to real i believe that out of all the people in the world that somehow you're gonna make it right so optimism is what attracts people out here but then would have is a lot of them end up sort of sitting in optimism right there always sitting
and being like i'm going to get discovered i'm going to get discovered i'm going to win the lottery right essentially it's that sort of mindset and then they're just waiting for things to happen they don't have an actual plan for going about it that's obviously not true of all after some people are like man okay i'm out here now if i'm going to make it i need to hustle and he's do things i need to do all that sort of stuff but there is that trajectory actors who come out here hoping they're getting it discovered you know are waiting to be discovered for forty fifty years and then like oh shit i'm seventy and then they crash and then you know they become the super depressed cynical actors who sit around like you know being let fuck the industry the industries that involvement the exact labels who arrive rough to be around they are about to be around the bit it out its own to coming out of them like sprinkler system and that is where a lot of middle america's right now because they ve had this hope of the americans
in the american dream the american dream the american dream and then there's those hopes have been crushed right it hasn't delivered it hasn't pan out the way that it was spoke two and so you're seeing a lot of pessimism and media which is the opposite side and pessimism has certain strengths and that the strengths of pessimism it's that constructive paranoia we talked about that they put practice in papua new guinea which is that your super alive to threats but you're actually so alive to threats that you see threats that aren't even their right you're maronite right but the problem is that it also comes with substance abuse so you find that you know for example of tap in the middle america's there's a lot of substance abuse going on on all these opioid addictions all that sort of stuff right but don't you think that's a function of being both those things as much as a function of the society that we live in its those things are super dangers to be exposed to and because of these corporations are we talking about the consequent up their bottom line they are selling these things like
see my doctor sorts i mean that could be as much as of the cap oz of despair as a symptom of the issue well right will of course of course that the factor but at the same time look at russia right russia's if place that is famous for substance abuse rain thirty point five percent of russians die from alcohol related causes and that's as compared to say three percent in america right so ten times as many russians are dying from alcohol related causes and they drink fuckin anything right like they pioneer weird fuckin drugs like crocodile men are just like flock zeilinger yadda yadda yadda exposed bones and there they appear
equally there is all this weird stuff that happens in russia where for example will drink like you know some weird detergent some glade plug or something like that cause there's a tiny bit of alcohol and so there is a certain psychology that comes with that mass of pessimism and that massive pessimism involved because of the context of russian history right so russian history if you ever want to truly be depressed just read some russian history right that'll do it for you and you find that like me in russia has always been a meat grinder right it just choose people up at spits them out and so the can you survive and that environment is being massively paranoid right the winter will kill you right the leadership he'll kill you there is also does things it'll kill you and so the eastern european mindset tends towards this massive mass of pessimism and the pessimism is useful in the same way that
as for the popular guinean where your massively alive to possible threats but it sets up these problems and the problems that it sets up our substance abuse and it also sets up the problem of sort of anticipating threats that aren't actually there and just overall despair he up and so what s happening is that there is then the problem that pessimism optimists misunderstand each other right they dont give each other right the optimists is like you're just fucking depressing and you know sort of sea threats at aren't there and like your life sucks and the pessimists looks at the optimists is like your fuckin delusional do like you gotta get real you gotta understand how things really work so if you look at what happens in russian and american relations what happens is that you'll have to the same situation been interpreted in two totally different ways so after the fall of the berlin wall the united states made some sort of promise or some sort of information that it would not expand nato any further east and the russians were took that as
hey you're not expanding nato any further east right but in fact would end up happening is that the united states in the west in its four of oblivious hopefulness dislike let's keep expanding nato right they didn't take this comment very seriously and they move nato all the way to estonia all the way to the russian border and the russian sitting on their site interpret that as a violation of the promised so sitting there is the pessimists they are there tracking each of these moves like ok your move in another country over your move in another country over we see what you're doing and that's a lot of what the tension that boiled up between russian america was about well don't you think right now russia's in the weirdest place ever with putin because he's essentially a dictator no using dictator right right in front yes a dictator and olive is all of the people that are opposing him the one i'm getting murdered yeah really publicly yet but that's because the dictators are godfathers that's what they're they are and you
you know fathers are so well on the sending an eu russian culture but no justice who could daffy who is saddam hussein who are any of these guys they they function as the godfather of their society so there is basically you know what you what the there's an i should clarify just so that people know whereas as all coming from the saw coming from books and interviewing academics and if you are curious about anything tweet me let me know and if there's any comments that your curious about direct you to the book and you can go read it and you can work your way up the science chain and figured out here for an onslaught of didn't pay to between italy exactly order or dick picks i dont know what to do with those but you know save him you don't really want to set a bad example gifting so brushing civilization where worry zone so there's theirs
centrally if you look at if we talk about those hunter gathers rang they have two big problems right and one big problem is banned level genocide so what'll happen is that periodically one tribal just go and wipe the fuck and try right they'll kill them down to the last man they'll kill the baby's will do all that sort of stuff and this can happen super super quickly so what'll of jared i'm and when we had him on the podcast he told this great story about you know there's these two tribes in public guinea they been living side by side for years and years and years perfectly happily they love tell they get along they cooperate all this sort of stuff and then resources get scarce right there's some change the environment suddenly there's not as much food around and as people start to get hungry one of the tribes goes off and four in the course of half an hour they tell each other made up stories that get increasing
fantastic and by the end of the half an hour they have convinced themselves at the other tribes are vermin that they need to be exterminated that they are a scourge on the land that they're not really human and they go home life than the fuck out and that is one of the dangerous potentials and human psychology is the fact that when resources get scared scarce we like identifies some sort of threat in the environment some sort of group of humans and we go we wiping the fuck out so if you look at for example what happened in germany in nineteen thirty three right there's the great depression there's hyperinflation they're all these problems and new note that old psychology that hasn't changed and tens of thousands of years is still there and so naturally people start looking round for scapegoat me anti semitism that a sort of already lingering in you know the german cultural environment you know suddenly that becomes the target group and you know hitler the political opportunity comes along and says oh you can blame it on them that's the source of all your problems
like there's a death mode locked in the human consciousness that when things get scarce and like oh you might die yet we are now on death mon that's right and death mode me to kill other people quickly that's right end and that's in it and you have to understand that this is the brutal reality of evolution is is that in that hunter gatherer contacts that's fucking useful it's really useful if him if resources get scarce to be the one who acts first who were epps out the other tribe first what's interesting though we even think that this is unusual bizarre when we look at nature when you and all the different system in nature that are set up how many times lions will kill cubs make sure that those males don't grow up to dominate that's right specially cut it out there's
and then i mean that's a big problem of sort of what's happening on college campuses is that there are a lot of unpleasant things in human psychology and unpleasant things in human nature and you know for the humanity really the good things come from being realistic when we're realistic about how disease works we get to control it when we're realistic about how doctrines work we get to control them let me ask you this because he has a really important this subject that this issue marxism spreading across universities what do you think is the cause of that like we're why is that so active to people and young people so confident to openly proclaimed proclaimed sounds as marxist without understanding how ridiculous at as well it's you know so john height who you know is and why you he has what's called moral foundations theory and essentially it's that we have we all have the sort of basic impulses of morality so for example fairness right
so you know you can watch little kids and they're like our tracking fairness what's fair who got more who got to play with claymore and all that sort of stuff that doesn't change right but we have these notions of fairness play out in different ways as we're adults but different political groups and different try favour these other notions of fairness more than some other so let take for example the issue of pro life versus pro choice right ok so you have let us here's the question are liberals pro life or our liberals pro choice there more pro choice on the issue of abortion your eyes so on abortion it's about freedom right ok it's very much about women's rights yet women's freedom it's a big it's not it's only me thought of illegal a human freedom because its about the woman not about the child that's right so it's about the woman's freedom so sedate hooked up to that idea of freedom right yes and then you know conservatives are pro life
this is about carrying in protecting from harm and all that sort of stuff ok you talk about war impress you're talking about war and that's exactly the point is that you know are all humans hypocrites or is it that we selectively use these same intuitions that we all have four different causes so if you look at for example gun control are liberals pro choice or pro life their death lay pro life a so what you see is that on abortion their pro choice and on gun control their pro life but in when it comes other way exactly lagoons are proud choice when i don't write guns so we all have these same intuitions but we use them in different ways to justify our political arguments what's interesting to is that there's two positions that are taking place in the american psyche at least that were almost reluctantly agreed to and that is that there are applicants are or the conservatives are more a realistic more hard core raided kick ass raw
to fight for what's right yet whereas the liberals are bunch a wild cry babies looking to give away their money and they creating welfare babies will that sir ages there if it wasn't for if it wasn't for the conservatives these fuckin people would be speaking and live in vienna accolade right well at all tribes the nature of tribes you tell something that makes your tribe looked like the good guys right right so of each drivers that's that's the conservative story and then the liberal story is like we're fighting racism and sexism to shoot a golden globes i did see the golden didn't see the merest troops i did see the magistrate god ass god bless my would use dog it about me martial arts people get so mad and those like of course it is a watch cage she's talking out of her ass for sure but she did you not to say that some people aren't artist marshall artists are an artist did that's completely to interpretation like what do you think is beautiful you think they're fucking stupid moving
replay that rockstar was that one that nobody want to see ricky get your gun or the fuck that is less than that was an art that was an r an anderson silva front kick to the face is a thousand times more beautiful than that piece of shit movie put out lady i'm sure she's a very nice person she probably thinks she's she's standing up for what's right get ready for ricky get the fuck out of here three people that we want our later there is such a movie did you see that movie ever heard what it s like what are they doing the eighty year old ladys gonna be a rock star ricky's come back and but it's also like such weird casting for her to cause like he does like these emotionally difficult like sophie's choice movies and yeah she's like trying to do the poppy rockstar movie well she was interested in it you know she's amazing actress gems amazing artist in her realm and i just think it's the eu can you could sort of say that without disparaging what other people enjoy
including disparaging what a lot of women enjoy like and foreigners like one thinks you're saying is that hollywood's crow with foreigners if you take them all you have left is mme and foot long i'm amazed mix martial arts not the arts but you wouldn't that's all true because like eighty percent of fighters in the sea or from other countries there from ireland like com macgregor there from brazil like amended nunez i mean there's the good incredibly a verse line up of people from all over the world so far you say that is like so silly but i've academic stand saying that you don't think it's an art by your interpretation i understand that but the larger point is that humans are really get right usual in general are silly and we're not individually that smart i think performance arts like as far as dance i mean there dance is clearly an art right if you watch mikhail version of off that's clearly art and i think
in many ways competition in performance like gymnastics is also an art we don't think of as an aren't we think of it as a sport when you look at the ability to execute the spectacular moves you maybe that doing it too concerto but it's still are in our view we see some amazing gymnast fly through the air and nail a landing it's beautiful its glorious well that's art in competition but it's not one on one competition now art in one on one competition is edson both are we'll kicking terry adam i know it doesn't look like art to some people but to me it does well it's a technically extra we difficult move it is quite a lot of time to practice and get good at which just the fact that when he does his beautiful pair wet it just now in someone's face was someone has to suffer because someone has to suffer and perhaps sometimes both people have to suffer in terms of a very brutal fight right
if you look at like amanda nunez is not out of rwanda rousing of urine amanda nunez fan that is a beautiful work or yeah could she didn't get it promotion for that five she was looked at like cannon fodder to go in there and fight rosy a lot of people are predicting a first round victory and shoe out there and fucked her up and forty eight seconds diet art to out to some people might not be to her but well but so i mean this comes down to you know liberals right so in general liberals massively over favour the notion of caring that's like their big big moral intuition great so they care about the environment bright they care about protecting children toddlers from dangerous guns right they just sort of everything is interpreted through bearing in wanting to protect so understandably when they look at and am i may fight there like oh that's bad because there's not caring and people are getting hurt render getting their feelings are and so when
petersen is on here any saki about how its is very sort of maternal thing is very maternal thing and the press is that you know what ends up happening is that when you have an echo chamber like college campuses which are incredibly liberal with very few outside opinions that that's the rabbit hold it they go down they go down the caring rob hall when you go down the carrying rabbit hole you end of marxism and no when you're surrounded by people who essentially think like you there's no one to likes it you down and be like that's fucking nods like let's talk about you think though there that is why do you think going down the caring rabbit hole lead you to marxism because you know you don't want anyone's feelings to get hurt you want everybody to have enough you know you want to share and it's important to realize back to your point where you said like you know if it was the three of us communism might work right there comes back to the dunbar number if you actually look at hunter gatherer tribes their communist right there really really socialist and and what they do is for example they have these behaviors
for example will drag if you going kill a dear we drag it into the middle of the village so everybody can see the deer and then we divided up and then you make sure that you give it to everybody else first and then you take the last piece and you take the smallest peace so it's you know what do with birthday cake your trap me sure everybody like i being super sherry here isn't this great i'm not thinking about myself and at the level of a tribe you and i can track all of the interactions we can attract we can track the fact that you know you no fucking hung over there is not pulling his way such and such a piece of shadows and that's the point we gone we talk about we talk of shit and then we go we go and we confront on and we say you fucking piece of shit like weeds all hunting all day and then you sit around and you know this
can it be in and there is always gonna be an arm and if you have enough people for sure you can have one hundred people this can we want and that's just evolution it's a strategy that works more photo fat am i certainly come back nor the blog would you ate all of the head nurse and you have to plot kill on well or to get onto pull his way park him now you just they kill em taken take him hunting and have em evan accidental moreover the fucking yeah exactly look over there dude waterfall by getting to hang out with a toddler with a gun and that's not gonna work together with the one area where locked little kid that's too much therefore taken it now gives euro worry about a sharp eye on our from a toddler another reason why arrows superior some so but marxism marxist being like a car
in its ideology marxism being that you know everyone should be more equal sharing more but as jordan peter and pointed out so eloquently on your podcast in on my ipod gas that doesn't really work and it doesnt work at seven billion people north hundred million people my word is fifty it works at fifty or a hundred and fifty i guess that's what our brain contract right the problem is that i can't track all the uncle it works great with technology it works great without access to people all over the world works great in consolidated environment suddenly all control contain environment but it doesn't work when essentially there's you know you're an apartment building of two thousand people in your fuckin talked anybody right repeated people say well it should work and we can make it work it's just this old outdated mine said the you fuckers grew up you you go you guys drew up way back in the day before the influence of the internet now understand at sea is a very respectable pronoun
do we use in exile are highly say that zero zero zero i think so i don't know seventy five they ardashir on nothing whatever the fuck they argue nutty concept that well i mean i think blocks words of making people use it well oxford again also gone down the rabbit whole but that these you know colleges and act you are not going to go back out of the rabbit home there just get they're gonna keep going down the rabbit whole until the larger community holds them accountable so do you think that that's happening at all now i mean there was the present of chicago university that said hey listen there's gonna be a safe space is this year is going to mean a trigger warnings to shut the fuck up and get to work and learn the marketplace of ideas that's right
express yourself get your ideas challenged debate these ideas let's find out what's right rather than what safe well and i think a large part of how you do that faster i mean firstly people already doing it there's the there's the guy's chicago there's jordan petersen you know the larger community is having a conversation about this but the faster way to do this is science right you front people with science and then you force people to either are you either accepting reality are you denying reality denying reality then you a real problem because now you look like a fool what you do when you talk about science you ever eat you run into a real issue when it comes to gender gap gender and science like would gender as is discussed on campuses today things they gets things get really and then it gets real sort of loose and open to interpretation and even though your biologically a mail you can identify as a woman and the correct way to treat used to treat you as women so we're we're gone well
are the realm of science now well born into the world of social constructs and agreed upon behavior but the science exists it's just in journals and it hasn't being brought and made accessible these children and there are ways to do it very simply so for example do you know the story of david reimer no ok so this is a kid in the sixties who i think of the canadian and for some bizarre reason right at the hospital the surgeon decides to use an electoral cautery needle to circumcised him and base equally there is a huge botch up and he manages didn't yeah he manages to chop off most of his dick fright and so the parents are like ok can't put that back on water do and so they end up going to the world's leading specialist in the nineteen sixties or whatever was fifty six years on and identity and all this stuff which is the sky doktor money and they go into
doktor money choose is now in the middle of march i sticks doktor money convinces them to castrate their penis list sun and to raise him is it and so they have to go and units take their son in and a day and who is now to be raised as brenda is you no doctor money is showing pictures of naked men two brenda and sang like this is what blogger like in all this stuff and you oh is forcing him to wear women's clothing and they're gonna do hormone therapy and all this sort of stuff now doktor money is meanwhile publishing but that is saying oh this is a tremendous success it's amazing like gender is all construct you know blah blah blah blah you know perfectly adjusting to life as a girl all this stuff in the plan is that no they're gonna need you surgery and given the vagina and all this sort of stuff not something
now meanwhile what is brenda doing brenda's hitting things with sticks brenda has no interest in playing with her sewing machine except for the one time that she takes a screwdriver and picks it apart to figure out how it works and doesn't want to hang out with girls only once hale with boys only wants to play with her brothers toys and you know so all these sorts of things and at some point you know and when the kid is like thirteen fourteen the jigsaw they figure out that they better tell brenda the truth and and to find out the truth and proceeds to essentially you know have a mistake to me to remove her breasts so just to male hormones and you know instantly goes too living as a boy now what happens is that you know brenda now david grows up man he's a woman and no has a relationship but unsurprisingly has a whole bunch
psychological issues and ultimately goes into a supermarket grow a parking lot blows his brains out now the point is that i think that if you really want to talk about gender you should force anybody who wants to deny gender to talk about david reimer you make david my household names and we're all going to talk about what lessons can we learn from the tragedy of j david reimer and if you get for example you know how many listeners you have at this point a lot lot joe if you get your tens of millions of listener thirty million plus listeners talking about david reimer and you're like we're gonna make david reimer household name working to make sure that the tragedy of david reimers something that everybody knows about learns about and the everybody's tweeting and talk david reimer then suddenly it becomes very hard for anybody to say that gender is purely a construct there may be spectrums and there may be like you know weird in between areas but the reality
is that a lot of gender is genetic in the sciences there and you're not going to get a bunch social just sorcery science is most people don't actually read science but you will get them to engage with the story of david slash brenda reimer while there there is most certainly is a spectrum yet but there is also a high percentage of people that operate in a very specific area of the spectrum and you're gonna get some kids that are convince did they are boys that's what i guess what some of those kids grow up and they change their mind as they get older and that something that we deserve the shit out of me when i see nine year old that are on hormones and unlike the seems crazy like this kid really thinks he's a girl let him think he's a girl like as is like why adding hormones to the mix why he runs right why you suggesting surgery many turns fifteen or whether i fuck the ages like this seems like something that should be worked out by a groan adult with a fully developed frontal cortex no it doesn't see and i also like the influence of the parents to change change how this kid if you have a kid and you have a daughter
your daughter just once curly hair off and climb trees and like let her do that yet like if she wants to be a boy let i think she's a boy in work at all out one day that's right but to work at all out and to encourage that behaviour or do say we're gonna bring you to a transgender specialist right away and they get a prescribed this now how many of these people are gonna be like brenda reimers original doctor those that mail name was a male namely night david data reimer david reimers original doctor who fit who were denounce proclaim meet with such a success well natasha in general rat reality denial leads to tragedy cats and you know so what we have to engage with his what is reality and you know it's not that i sit here and i've read literally all of science i can like it's it's far too vast or project and science is it supposed to be an individual project supposed to be
collective project we're all trying to really figure out what is this bitch known as reality that is evaded us for millions of years right tens hundreds of thousands of years and you know the the point is that if you want to talk about like gender for example let's talk about people who are in her sex there are some people who are born and it's not you know their genitalia birth are clearly male or female and what they now do you know the medical community is is that you basically find out what are they genetically are they ex why are they acts acts and then you raise them is that but you don't do hormones and you dont do surgery precisely because you're gonna let them decide right and if you are i mean you know how much better uk so why is this so using an electric hotter kneel to needle to do circumcision who the fuck knows right like it's a dumb choice by a surgeon but imagine if they'd said ok that fuck up happened we can't
on fuck that up but we're not gonna now make it worse by chopping off his balls with his what year is in the sixties sixties the amount of data they had backed them so limited and we ve now we ve got a lot more data and munich david brenda reimer is not an isolated incident there have been other incidents like that and you know there they very like it's not it's not that everything turns out like david brenda reimer right but if you really care about children and you really care about people and which is the sort of the big liberal value then you know and the hippocratic oath the whole point of being a doctor is their first responsibilities do no harm right you're not supposed to make things worse right if you can make things better without you know really possibly making things worse than that's great and so again again you we'd we dont let children vote we dont let children dr why would we let them make such a huge decision at such
young age and i think whatever the decision ends up being you know people are going to make their own individual decision so be it but you want to make sure that the decision is an informed vision this also there's forbidden territory when it comes to under and gender identity as far as like what you are allowed to debate or not allowed debate there's a lot of forbidden territory and it becomes pretty obvious that the origin of that forbidden behaviour forbidden thinking is that people there our transgender or gay or marginalized in any way have been discriminated ganz entreated poorly and and we recognise that so we order we automatically stop any critical thinking when it comes to those people it can't be crazy link they must be the inner it's just a transgender issue yet it couldn't be their crazy end transgender without never discussed it can't be he's
and stupid it's gonna nogueira more wonderful the other all amazing because they ve all been discriminated against right and the point is you don't i mean yoke human beings are human beings and so for example when we had jordan yours and on one of the questions that i asked him a which i think is a super important question is jordan's a psychologist right and i asked him ok so let's imagine you had a patient who came here and said you know i want to be called by one of the seventy pronouns right what as your patient would you then do and he said well if you came to me and said to me that you were jesus christ i would have to as a responsible doctor first decide that it was in my best interest to call you jesus christ so i have to figure out really what is that about and is it going to serve your outcome to be able to do that and again do you know there's unaccountability for any human whether it's a celebrity or a sports star or rapper or a gay person or a transgender person or a politician or a scientist is bad
had like humans need accountability like that's just the rally otherwise we go fuck and not balls so if for any reason a human is denied accountability to other humans you ve got a problem right yeah you're doing damn it disservice by i thinking that your in somehow another helping now or you know like that stupid article earlier today that we are talking about about these people shown over the racism com france and then why people being forced to check their privilege like this historic you're ruining the whole thing with this kind of short sighted shitty thinking do really go down the rabbit i will allow let's do it i'll do it so you know thomas soul i know that
why don't you get it named thomas soul is a big famous conservative he's at stanford he's at the hoover institute i think anyway so you know within this i mean first just to set all this up we should set up briefly how does culture work right and the way culture works is that it like genetic evolution it works based on blind copying so what ends up happening is that you are in all of people right you look up to people and so you blindly copy the things they do and civically you start by blindly copying from the outside and then you work in so the first thing you do as you see someone in your like oh that person's fucking amazing that rock star that sport star whatever and you start dressing like them you start walking like them and all that sort of stuff now a hunter gatherer contacts that would be you know somebody who is a hunter or is a gather and you're like man you know she finds all the best squatters how does she do that then ung fuck and eat
yeah and so you know you would you would like hang out with her you'd sort of like shimmy up to her you be seeing what she'd be doing i should like to say that she looks for a very particular color of guava she minos squeeze them in a certain way and over time you learn what she's doing and then ultimately you even learn how she's thinking but in a large scale society like ours i don't meet michael jordan right michael jordan just becomes the sort of distant person that idolize and so advertisers have figured out how to hijack these mechanisms and they know if you put a burger next to michael jordan's face that i'm like oh i want to be like michael jordan slime guinea he's a big mac right and little children or diamonds so they blindly copy that or oh i want to be like james dean his cigarette in his mouth i wanna blindly copy that and we don't understand that the berger or
cigarette is not actually the key to being a successful oars cool as or as good a basketball as michael jordan james dean right we don't stand that that's where that comes from so we have this tendency to blindly copy anything we can write some accents pierre yeah and in in a mass society we never work our way and we never learn the mastery right we just sort of remain at this sort of very superficial level so what that means is that where where did this also that's a good question where are you going with us while we're starting culture how culture world yea our culture works ok now we're gonna talk about black people crisis cries so that on this topic thomas soul is black guy greyer and thomas soul has
for years and years and years been trying to fight racism but he's been trying to fight racism by having a conversation about culture right and the fact that there are essentially two difference or of a you know too were speaking broadly here right but this is for the purposes of communication were intel simple story to start off with right so broadly speaking he puts to different cultures of people with dark skin next to each other and one culture is these people from the west indies and one culture is as people group of people who grew up the south with slavery in all that sort of stuff now what one group the west indies group does really well so although a lot of the successful black people people at colin powell originally from that cultural heritage the other group is the group that you find in ghettos and african american communities and all that sort of stuff they don't do well right they don't good education the euro should each other there all these sorts of things and the reason i saw his
telling the story is because he's been trying to say you know when liberals look at the people in ghettos they say ah racism that's why they're not seating and soul is saying no its not because if you look at this group from the west indies they also came from the experience of slavery there was slavery in the west indies they are also black so they also face racism and yet they do well so it has to be something else and the other thing is the fact that these black people who were in the south there's always been a big question were black people robbed of their culture or did they preserve their authentic african culture and what soul is saying is that they were robbed of their culture and so they picked up the culture of the people around them and the people around them were rednecks and if you look at the white redneck call
and the black redneck culture they have a lot of the same values they dont particular respect education they love jesus they use violence in their conflict x and day you know there's theirs you know a lot of the same values and a lot of the same outcomes and even at bonn x which is munich black english is actually off from the west of england so it's actually disquiet it's from the west of england so for example if you go to pay it is like cornwall there used to be this amazing these raising ads on british tv right for this this devon custard or whatever and they will we say devon news oh they make it so creamy and they all talk like this right and so it doesn't sound like black english but they do say things like we do not and we be doing this and you be doing that and they be doing that and so there's that use of that cop you'll be right where it sits saying i am you are he is she is they are they just say i be you be we
be they be which is the classic feature of black english african urban tackling right now the point as is there how in blower my blog now let's imagined that how do you think that thomas or has been received by liberal america not well try were not well and so for example soul has a book called black rednecks white liberals okay and his whole point is that you no if you actually and you know again like soul is you know he researchers their shit out of this stuff you really does his work now if you if you look at the experience of african americans after slavery after slavery they do really they they start to make real progress right and a large part of them reason why they make progress is because you see to get a lot of people from new england either you know black people from new england or why people from new england who come down and sort of reshape the culture they create these schools and their teaching
those new england values right it's his puritan values of hard work tenacity all that sort of stuff and so there's all this progress and have people like booker t washington and booker t washington was an actual slave and then after he got his freedom he got to go work in a salt mine which is literally the worst job ever and in booker t washington up from slavery he tells this great story about seeing a schoolhouse right and that you know he thought that going into a school house that is close to heaven on earth is you could get like this is a dude who wanted an education really really badly and that's a lot of what you find in the you know early black experience in you know the post slavery period and in fact you know the blacks you know before sort of world war two actually had higher rates of marriage than whites all of these sorts of things that you know are now supposedly a problem and then there's turn around right the black experience starts ago south right it's
to get worse and what years is around this is post world war two right so so post slavery by people experience a rebounding they're starting demand here and there and ambitious bulgaria and i mean you know if in terms of books to read like lino just because a large you know a large part of what i am trying to do in general is really let's move to the place of all people are created equal like let's remove ali stupid distinctions right and really live that principle and the problem is that in order to really live that principle you need a new narrative that beat slavery so you know it's not if you go and talk to racist you can't just say racism is bat like that doesn't destroy racism bryant right what destroys racism is when you make sense of the things that they no right they see you know people who are violent in the ghettos or they see crime or they see a lack of education where they see that africa is poor and you're able to tell a better still
that makes sense of the things that they know but also comes out with the conclusion oh we actually all have the same potential but if you have this issue with people imitated their atmosphere and yet retaining their environment this southern style talk with the southern neck in yellow ends on the african american slaves former do how do you patty stop that and hurried turn that around will in general for humanity minister the big problem for humanity in general is that there is not a culture alive today that is well suited to the world that we're living in and that's because you know culture is adapted to environment in the same way as any evolutionary thing right so for example you know if you look at like let saga his hunter gatherer is right the animal or something like that so there's a grey
and all of a sudden the fish flowed up to the surface upside down right they ve been a nest the ties by this this whatever substance leaf and this little boy goes into the river and he plucked out all the fattest fish and then as the milky cloud dissipates the others fish swim away there's this group of tribesmen in the amazon and what they'll do is there's a special leaf and they go and they squeeze this leaf right the crush it up and this milk substance runs into the water and then all sudden the fish flowed up to the surface upside down right they ve been anesthetize by this this whatever substance belief and this little boy goes into the river and he plucked out all the fattest fish and then as the milky cloud dissipates the others fish swim away bright impressive his fuck like how the fuck do these tribesmen who don't have science don't have any of these things figure this thing out and its cultural evolution that's what happens is that that's a nature of evolution that's that
true of markets because markets or an evolutionary process you know intelligent and answers and intelligent solutions can emerge from just sort of competing forces and so all of these cultures are well adapted to a particular environment so if you know if you like we talk about american culture and we talk about russian culture russian culture selects for pessimism american culture because you had to move all the way across ocean right if you ve got villages in italy in vietnam whatever it is who is the person in that village who says i'm gonna go across the ocean country i know nothing about you don't make a fortune right it's the most optimistic individual and so it's basically a magnet for all the men stop domestic individuals in the world that the analogy always use this year american tail the like old made movie from like there must be the nineties or whatever probably i think i saw the well it's about a group of animated
its animated yeah who made it i dont know trying to remember it's not disney that's it now i dont think of students milburgh anyway it's it's sort of about the it's about the immigrant experienced more generally and then specifically sort of about the russian jewish experience and it's about this family the mask of its is and right there on that on that trunk there's five mask of its and final bible mouse covets you know in the first part therein russia and the they're all being persecuted by cats right cause they're mine and five will now ask of its sings a song with all of the other mask of its is called there are no cats in america right
which is so much of what the american immigrant experience is about right you're like oh it's all going to be perfect land of opportunity the streets are paved with gold except in an american tail the streets are paved with cheese american t alia exactly or t i'll t eight is he all right exactly plaster so so the these different environments right just as you have different environments select for different different you know beak serve wings or you know whatever it is select for different mindsets different ways of thinking different cultural traits right and what ends up happening is a weak become well adapted to a particular environment so what happens to the point of the lost city of sea is what happened to all of these european explores who went into the amazon wall a lot of them
can tide and that's because they're doing things that are well suited to england like walking around in wool suits and eating cans of chip beef but suddenly find carrot in the hundred degree heat of the amazon and there's all these animals you don't understand and you don't know how to use the plants that you squeeze in the anesthetic in them in all its or so you can't survive right and what they called in velocity z all the explorers they called it the amazon a counterfeit paradise it looked like a paradise so lush it was so tropical but there are like there's nothing to fear could eat except clearly there was because amazonian people had been living there for tens of thousands of years they just the westerners didn't have the cultural software that was well sir did to surviving that environment so how does this translates into african americans so what
the environment that created that southern redneck culture and the environment it turns out is hurting right so raising sheep raising goats and all its research is most people who are in the south originally came from the scotch irish and when you look at hurting cultures around the world they all have certain traits in common right so if you heard or will you have a big big problem and the big big problem is property rights so if you're a farmer there our clear boundaries on my land now there are ways you can try and fuck me you can try and move andrey stones on my land slowly into your field over over over over but you know what we usually have as we have some sort of government there's a local town official that we go to and he is responsible for policing the boundaries and so towns would do things where you know you would essentially all get together we go walk the boundary stones and make sure that
those boundaries stones had moved so the intuition of people from the north puritans people like that is if we have a problem we go to the government we resolve it through the government right in the environment of hurting you can come over and you can steal my sheep and you can mix the sheep in with you flock and i have no way to prove which might shoot which sheep are my sheep so we evolved things like branding right where i have a brand i put on my sheep and all that sort of stuff but is another strategy that is used that evolved before branding and that earlier strategy is being a crazy mother fucker you establish a reputation is the kind of guy that you don't fuck with you come on my land i kill you you touch sheep or my women i fucking kill you and i use such an aggressive level a vial once that you know that you know
there is no point in fucking with i mean this is not plausible cause i'm saying it but let's imagine rach tougher person conor macgregor for example is a great example you don't fuck with conor macgregor right he has a reputation is just being a bad s mother fucker who'll fuck you up right right so that's our key people off you and that's right and if you look at let's look at a couple of her culture so hurt or cultures could the scots irish who are the rednecks hurt or cultures include the mongolian right the mongols notoriously a very gentle peace love people right and they include the bedouins who are the arabs right who had camels and all that sort of stuff you'll notice that there is that same use of violence and mostly they fight amongst themselves there's a centre clan warfare but periodically a charismatic figure emerged is who unites the clans so genghis khan manages to unite the mongols and then what are the mongols proceed to do you proceed to go use that aggressive use of violence they have those horses which allow them to me
quickly right now really effective and they go and they fuck everybody up right because you know that till farmers of china are prepared for that in the gentle farmers is a persian repair that what happens with the arabs the arabs are mostly fighting amongst themselves but then along comes this charismatic figure with the new belief system the unites the muhammad and human i'd them and suddenly they flock everybody up and they create this great empire the caliphate right that spreads all across central asia and the middle east and all across north africa right and in many ways that is what donald trump is they ve been you know the red i have been fighting amongst themselves for a long time and then donald trump the gang khan of amerika the mohammed of america has six in uniting the glance and you know in our time you don't do it i'm going out and like raping and pillaging you going
you see the ballot box a new vote and you know you really like take back power and so that's what they ve done but there are if you look there are certain problems that occur across these heard or cultures so if you're at you know is of a friend of mine who you're so essentially saying that the south is that the reason why donald trump has been elected because the south because of the herd or culture well and its also swiss if you ve read hillbilly elegy jade events as book nights its excellent right but he's really talking out this hillbilly culture and so it's not just the south right so what happened is that its redneck kids rednecks which is of or you know whatever or hillbillies or whatever you want to call him oh folk whilst not even simple folk it's just a particular culture and they have certain values and i just it's also worth clarifying is the way that i sound and where i come from in the fact that i went to harvard valentine yeah and video then i'm not a part of that tribe that you know americans though a tremendous debt to the hillbilly culture and that from
this debt is that overwhelmingly there are the people have served in the military and they overwhelmingly the people who have fought or wars and bled and died and all that sort of stuff and that's not a stuff that i may sound like a liberal but i dont really sit in ira those cultures sporadic and good critique the liberal culture and i can critique the hillbilly culture right and in a white liberals the whole region started this thing off because white liberals have their own weird things that are dysfunctional in that aren't helping black people and all that stuff if you just war a bow tie people think you're a service that i have to do in there you go or maybe it's in the museum or low tie a bolo time actually i would like to do that like i liked the text you're out of your answer yeah rancher lighted jade right there in polish george w bush beef in connecticut but dress like it i like you mean more i really mean is i mean cannabis poor yasser there from that is the widest why a northern people ever live at french folks young man is filled with french for maniacs
also originally you no more your neck of the woods the ice boston doubt i did a lotta gigs and main yeah means a fascinating place because it's entirely abandoned yeah there's i've come the cities and you have to drive like a vast difference says in between them when you go from portland bangalore here's a psych fifty plus mile stretch were theirs nothin on the road it's a two lane highway there ain't shit on that road no gas no nothing if you don't have gas you're fucked did you ever not again did you ever hear there's a friend of mine her dad's from main and he has all these great main isms and one of them is oh you gotta go up past soyuz ban and pass sawyers barn is any place that is far away which is i think fucking makes a sort of like the version of the islamic seventy two virgins yeah right like seventy
this means a shitload of virgin yeah doesn't really mean the number seventy zero yeah well you know what you're saying you have a parcel of virgin like there's a good chunk of virgin recently we get back to this african american culture so how does it how does it corrected so what s happening is tat what you have to do is is that you just have to have a much larger conversation about culture and you have to talk about how culture works you have to say it's not your fault right because i the point is that unanimity in our atmosphere we may our atmosphere and the reality is that you know these cultures are very old that hurt or culture is the same one that's the big irony is that you're not saying that it's about black people it's about rednecks whether their white rednecks were black reddened and so that huh culture has just inexorably tied itself into the african american culture without the african americans even knowing that it happened exactly which is then
nature of culture and is also it's only tied itself into this very specific subset of africa of black culture which is why the people in the west indies have a complete answer at all why and if you talk if you talk to people who are literally africans who emigrated to america like from ethiopia kenya or anything like that you know if you get an ethiopian cabdriver so hard work and yeah talk to their talk to them about how they feel about that sort of ghetto black culture those black rednecks they hated ay fuckin hate it and the point is this because a gives them a bad name right you know if people see a black person and they're like oh you're like probably this this this this this because again human stereotype because of the dunbar number cuz we can only track two hundred and fifty people and so we have to make up stories about some yelling half fit into this rednecks that's right oh you have
dukes of hazzard t shirt on there you are and we do that and you know that's the point the listeners are going to be sitting here and they're going to be trying to categorize me and all of this sort of stuff and you know part of what you're dealing with its you start about gender or anything like that and social justice worries train put you into some bucket near like no all belong in that bucket you're constantly trying to say i'm not that bucket so you can imagine if your ethiopian right you moved here and you really sort of believe in the american dream land of opportunity and we work hard and we all do this sir stuff and you keep getting put nap block will all sort of rap culture or anything like that you're going to those like a euro seek and people want to be iran's right muslims bombed yeah nine eleven i've been sonny near the same part of the world oh fuck nope totally different headgear about to the person on the outside trying to categorize that's right they're trying to make an incident but but then that's the point is that when you started
the conversation that is about culture then you start to realise that race doesn't actually matter and you'll find is so let's take a look at for example agents right asians do very well in school there very productive and all that sort accept further hmong right so there is a group of people called the hmong and their there the big asian exception and you know they do things on hunter's big time hunters you know and there is a lot of violence not a lot of education right they don't sort of fall into that sort of you know stereotype of becoming engineers and dora they from what part of the world there like cambodia vietnam like what used to be called indo china on how their own country now now there are their tribal grouping that sort of exists across national boundaries because in general you know one of the great destructive forces in human history is the bridge matt maker you know what i mean like europeans just love a straight line
may i just can't get another the straight line so they re just slowly and you know like that the straight line works in middle america because you ve already wiped out all the tribes right but it doesnt work so in africa where there are still tribes or south east asia where you suddenly start like drawing a line right between two tribal groups or across a tribal group and so only now shits all fucked up in there what they're trying to do when they're having all these civil wars there trying to unfold the boundaries it lies are annoying yeah they i was really hilarious when you get busted for transporting something prostrate lines like my allotted drive around this what what's the flock and law let you have you have pot in particular whom you cross state line you from being someone who is innocent a hundred percent to someone is guilty a hundred cent yup of a felony yup live there so bizarre i mean in one one tied states rights an amazing idea protesting ideas out sure in our testing our like with
our ato and legal marijuana again that's right it worked out work etc great people when looked at working off it of all it helps our re let's go yet and then it's it's sold the idea to other pay of answering other places like open carry hey are you sure you sure conseil carry ok you just have a gun on you everywhere you go the other movie theater but where are the places where that's true south and that's because it it's again it comes down to the what this is being driven by its being driven by old cultural baggage that doesn't necessarily make sense so the guy who knew so there's really in terms of honor cultures therefore box right that i think that if you want to go into this like don't get angry at me just read the four blocks rather those books those books are black rednecks white liberals thomas souls books a coup
sure of honor which is richard news bits book jade events is hillbilly elegy and then a book called the short and tragic life of robert peace and those for books essentially if you read those four books and you're still saying that what i'm saying is unsubstantiated me you know well then we should talk about it or their allow liberals that are up in arms new proposed things are scrutinised our brain up their herd or culture know what are the patriarchy racism would actually know race he can't be racist or re people that's why my favorite things of people saying today what are you can't be racist white people yeah there's a lot of avery things to say people are saying a lot of weird and wacky shit that's one of the wealthiest like of course you can that's the racism only works when someone has power while when you're races to someone you have power over a period
general power like what presumed across the board yet my black and white real real simple yes or no binary one or zero is our doing is that people of course not enough coarseness of course not of course you could be racist judge someone prejudicing well and in fact that is the key thing with richard nisbett book the culture of honor so nesbitt was a professor in the nineties at the height of political correctness and he wanted to study culture and the problem was that he's a white man from the south and he knew that if you studied any culture you would have to say bad things bout it so what does richard and do he says oh i know one culture that i can say bad things about on a college campuses i can say bad things about southern call sure dancing culture i can criticise freely and so what would you do and you know this i think it's really down to one of the strengths of units would have broadly northern and southern culture right and you know kennedy had john f kennedy had this great line about washington dc he said that it was a city of
southern efficiency and northern charm a number of passengers yeah and you know that the potential for america's to be country of southern charm and northern efficiency but we're kind of got it backwards right now right but so what witness bit is doing is is that he's charming the liberals right which is what southerners do he's like i'm gonna study culture but i'm in a steady white southern culture and i'm gonna show how bad it is right and so there are like okay that feel safe and comfortable right that's essentially how he works this way into the conversation and specifically what he knew is he knew that southern culture had this very particular problem is very particular problem was that it had higher rates of homicide in very specific categories so it had higher rates of you know basically killings round trespassing and then killing
around you know lovers triangles and so for example in nineteen seventy if you found your wife in bed with another man in texas you could shoot him and it was justifiable homicide nineteen seven is a really only seventy i thought it was really recent by maybe i mean that was that's that's my recollection but i think that might still be a law theirs give a crime of passion law in texas i feel like that for some reason though they may just move move the name or something i don't know maybe i'm wrong but i know that people have been exonerate aha reaches of what you know crimes a passion because of physiological pissed off and shoe people yet argos crime of passion legal deaf in addition there is sometimes gotta love taxes since injuries net state are supposedly lenient to cook hold it love love that who wreak there on vengeance erector on vengeance the benefit
eliminating premeditation is to lessen the provable homicide to manslaughter with no death penalty and limited prison terms so that's crimes of passion so it's not illegal but it's a much lesser crime will i think in until seven it was actually just straight up justifiable homicide whistling straight our legal crime of passion and now it's like a homicide the man slaughter and i m going to jail for six months yeah but when you get out of the fuck is that surveys they stay have allowed exactly dammit it's that same psychology that plays out and so nesbitt and you know and by by contrast in the north there are a lot of what are called there are more seven eleven murders which are basically murders or instrumental murders which is where people kill people trying to get cash rightly trying to get rich right so there these different it's you know there's homicide in both places but their different types of homicides that predominate and nesbitt essentially you know that the big
thing was to figure out why is that true right and the answer is that it's this culture of honour that comes out of hurting and so the irony is that southerners hoover we often are the ones who feel most strongly about how problematic muslims are have the same culture and they do all these things could they don't do it to the same extent because in general america's much less violent place where it was more violent than they would be forced to adapt to the new culture as a right which is mad max die that's right and what would happen the liberals and when your resources are extremely limited like you wouldn't fucking desert you're forced to become even more vicious and i thought you were protecting your boundaries in your property and your resources
car so again how do we straight now the african american and that's the point it's about problem with crime and violence and terrible atmospheres they have to imitate well that's the point is that with a thing that allows people to move past their cultural baggage is under standing their cultural baggage that answer of why it storytelling i did this this environment because it made sense we are no longer in that environment now it is problem attic to me therefore it screws me so now i should behave in this way and then you can start to retrain what you're impulses are so you know somebody bumps you you know somebody comes on your land and your first impulse is not to go grab your shot gun and kill them right and you dont worry so much of what it comes down to is crucially like their honour killings right so those cultures are obsessed with honour and pershing particular what you hear with african about
just don't dismay dont disrespect me right so there is a real policing of one's honour and really making sure that nobody is fucking with me and it's the same thing with you no white red next week suddenly right right that's right texas ride don't mess with taxes noise delaware prime well that's because if you mean today aware there's main undermine pride although do love main those fuckin porforio they do trapped up there frozen with blueberries and lobster and stephen king and saving king yeah gun lesson is up for the summer summer winters in florida snowboard yeah it's in many ways bad to not talk about this so that is around people that have the issue with even discussing the origins of certain types of behaviour and comparing different types of black people and different types of african amount
and trying to figure out or africa former slaves like why did the people the west indies behave differently than the people in america and you know it opens up this weird can of worms are people are are not willing to discuss it openly and that's taboo and that is why cell called his book black redneck white liberals because the problem is it because white liberals were not willing to discuss these things what ends up happening is this that you get african pride write it and you know it was sold points out right way his pride ever a good thing right pride is the feeling of that you know it all that you have nothing to learn great it's that feeling of arrogance oranges habit of blue from more actually you wouldn't about all that live in your day dream angolan when europe shit but you'll have to in england the problem it is a problem there just cabbage rusted that's a lot is melting ice age i actually you what that what would the we
the siberian candidate what's things siberian ten while people are saying donald trump as the siberian candidate the harmonised what do you think about this whole situation with russia today because it seems like that pork jerry does know how to fuck and get rid of that one guy who's their main do as much as gary kasparov talks about that here that is wondering that is going on in tell chiefs present trump with claims of russian efforts to compromise yeah woe around this afternoon like breaking news sort of thing and on the hop britain russian efforts to compromise him well they're playing to his ego look at us is eyebrows do you read the thing buses of but hold on a second back up their picture tell me there's not a doktor shoes character that's them who's that fuckin mayor i mean he's just what's happening here
what is all the while they're presenting him i wonder what he's going to do about all that including alligator that russian operatives claimed to have compromising personal and financial information about mr tromp multiple u s officials with direct knowledge the briefings tell cnn whom the allegations were presented in two page synopsis that was appended to report on rushed intelligence the two thousand sixteen election the allegations came in part from memos compiled by former british intelligence operate whose past work u s intelligence official official officials consider credible the fbi's investigating the credibility and accuracy of these allegations which are based primarily on information from russian sources but has not confirm this is a weird time and it is a very weird time so fuckin so crazy to think that we're in a cold war
like how did we would duck that forever i to the whole clinton administration that was a non issue yet through the entire bush administration non issue through the entire administration non farc and issue until two thousand twelveth and then he started here about it again well a large part of what's happened is that our environment has changed but our culture has not so if you look at in the nineteen fifties rate if you're talking about them it places ideas you had these guys like edra edward our moreau and walter cronkite and they had a thing called journalistic integrity right brian williams and william yet guy he's he's just this goes any alarm the guy i can tell a good story yeah exactly but journalistic integrity
is now don lemon don lemon exactly what act lemon stepped back and respect him who is the czech people on our view no no he's had a czech people had it's my favorite things over seventy there some was talking about something knows something about i remember what it was what was it wouldn't download samia czech people had check some people my life was like people caught up talking sexist or something like that he was just telling people he had to check people in his life the fuck up don lemon yard checking anybody anybody act tells you shut your mouth what's so funny art i guess something in this report that just came out which is also going around now you got married this report trumbull allegedly hard prostitutes for a golden shower party on writs moscow where obama michel slept well this is right out of the report this highlighted ok here's as it were
picked a trumps engage with russian authorities one which had borne fruit to them was exploit trumps personal obsessions with sexual perversion in order to obtain sustainable comp matt compromising material on him according to source d where where ass he had been present trumps perverted in britain brackets conduct ask included hiring the presidential suite of the ritz carlton hotel where he knew president mrs obama whom he hated in parentheses had stayed on one of their official trips to russia and defining the bed or they had slept by employing our prostitutes perform golden showers urination show in front of him the hotel was known to be under f s be control with microphones into field cameras in all the main rooms to record anything they wanted to holy shit just go
the ritz carlton and they set up microphones and cameras oh yeah that's the russian way off but the real carlton oh yeah that's a crazy but that's nature i mean you know that if you jerk off the ritz carlton what do you put a blanket or what i think that they raise the buggy camera you have to put a bleed after but a blanket over everything is there going to be a lot of cameras in that room my friend mike but mike's wick whose affair we see fighter worked in russia with the american secret service long time ago and he said they found these listening devices it hidden inside bill things were powered by the movement of the building during the wind like what
they have their own their power source is literally the building moving in the wind was pay said it was so far beyond anything yet they had ever figured out that the americans at figured out at the time and that which is all about surveillance well that was the things that the soviet union did well right they do there were few things of the soviet union really put their attention on like space and surveillance and you know espionage and all that through south and the military and they did those very well sounds like horseshit to me sounds like something somebody would say you try and make it is from buzzfeed but it sounds like something someone woods but but the well it is not the right where's the quote from the courts from the story was from buzzfeed from other that's just the actual report is where that was from that report that out they were talking about the previous article we brought up from the roots from the intel o shapes yea but elsewhere
this is the report here it's a good company intelligence report along u s presidential home i'm sorry rebecca theirs hundred percent factual but that's the problem and that's the problem in general is that like you know that the cia engages in that sort of behaviour of course you know that the efforts be the russians don't we have to talk about golden showers apparently there's a thing we know we know we always known that intelligent agencies will distribute propaganda we know that that's one hundred percent factual but that's that the problem and that's the problem in general is just that like you know that the cia engages in that sort of behavior of course you know that the fsb the russian security service engages in that behavior of course who do you trust do you trust and that's the basic problem of twenty seventeen twenty succeed one hundred percent who the low floor trust you gotta know that if the if someone from any agency
telling you something and why what what would it serve them to tell you one hundred percent the truth without end manipulation whatsoever in order to gain favour in order to gain influence in order to gain and what what what would the see i have any motivation to be one hundred percent accurate about it why well i mean you know i mean the cia obviously donald trump is not clearly a friend to the cia right he's already made it clear that he has issues with the intelligence community so why it sounds so crazy is not even in the area and he hasn't been briefed by them and he's been rejecting that and i mean that's the point we live you know the old chinese curse we live in interesting times autonomy i think that now when if he if it comes out that there was a bunch of elsie hired the piss all over the bed people going to cheer him in the street well well there's other people that loved them in the first
yeah another me a ton of m o cares the guy had a good time yet another that's because again it's clan it you know it is culture of authority and grouping around and being loyal and all that sort of stuff horse and those those are the big sort of conservative you know hillbilly redneck intuitions right as opposed to liberals are like let's care for everybody amazing let's not hurt anyone's feelings and let's have trophies for participation lets herself himself a long time you know the liberals have had a lot of power over the media and politics and all that sort of stuff and so that's the rabbit hold at the country when down and now you know the conservatives have sort of you know gotten pissed off and you know have you know it's sort of like i mean in the ideal situation the republicans democrats work like mommy and daddy and you know it's not that mommy and daddy have it all figured out but if mommy and daddy have a productive working relationship than the can then these sort of like take
personal responsibility you know man up like do all these sorts of things is counteracted by certain understanding compassion and all that sort of stuff and then the poor funding that emerges is better than what they would either of them would do on their own more they can both get dysfunctional as fuck mommy becomes an enabling you know snowflake machine right daddy just becomes an abusive asshole who won't pay child support and just moraines is children in as like what the fuck is wrong with you grow the fuck up crack pussy come on pussy that's that's really where america is mommy and daddy or fighting
i know and fundamentally like mommy and daddy are having the most dysfunctional relationship possible russia's are crazy neighbour whose like what a great opportunity to come in and fuck money right how russia triumph far more temperately sense but it's also it's good for prudent because what does the godfather one the godfather the did so i think it's important understand like the disaster of american foreign policy would that about right and it's because modern americans have grown up in you know essentially the most successful most productive most stable country history right and so you know if you're you know as many generations into democracy is you are there is not enough
understanding of how you get to democracy right we just sort of inherited democracy and we're like my i don't know how you make one and then you get these ridiculous fables that americans have about themselves where they think that essentially you know king george the third was this awful vicious dictator and then we kick the dictator and then democracy and so that's all you have to do is you have to go in and you have to remove dictators and if we just keep removing dictators than democracy will emerge will what happens when you moves saddam hussein fact yeah fills up with i say doesn't adolescent right or you know you remove gaddafi right what happens vacuum yeah and then what happens i say ok now these sorts of things so that the big question that you know that has always been in political science and that france fukuyama for it frames as is that it's always been
what it why is it that the american revolution succeeded and the french revolution descended into bloody violence and the answer is that they were actually at two different stages of development at anchor the answer is america a major area and french bunch applause i couldn't paul it actually that is good that's how free for every fries kickback gulags yet so that's actually the answer and i'm sorry take back if you think that earlier but it is the blaming of you know i'm not not necessarily blaming but understanding the router the behaviour as being cultural and that we have these ideologies a big becoming prison too patterns of behaviour that we become imprisoned and that we're all such to anyone with an accent understands that this is where it comes from the wee wee imitate
behaviour that its around us and if we're in around an area like we're talking about the middle east with poor research and was scarcity in a lot of violence this is the time behaviour that we're gonna we're gonna control our women dress him up cover my like beekeepers gonna keep em keep away from me at a swing index that's fucking assholes we're gonna come over the hill with swords and horses that's right gazettes has been going on for ever exactly if you look at iraq one of the crazy stories about iraq was iraq's be both baghdad being invaded by the mongols and then killing everybody up and running the streets raw red with blood and black bank though the rivers would fuckin be filled with the the lastly in all the writings from all these islamic of fear in all these different different scholars who were far ahead of that asked the weather the rest of that part of the world at the time that's right i mean so much mathematics so much philosophies some some
knowledge came from that part of the world it was totally lost when they were invaded and so much of it is that you know that the old there's an old quote that floats around which is that if nobel prizes had been given out in the year one thousand they all would have gone to arabs downright amazing as they were at the forefront in the point is that tells you something which is that success is not a permanent condition bright cultures can gain it and cultures can lose it and you better figure out what is it that makes a culture successful so you can preserve those values fight for those values and still them spread them all that sort of stuff and that's why putin is jockeying for power because he believes that there's a turnover gone all right now they hired a fuckin reality star to run the biggest nuclear arsenal the world's ever known holy shit this might be the time the and there there and that the
instability that has been created is that you know if is that you know you gave everyone a microphone that's what the internet is rang like we're literally sitting here right and you know you can start a show and if people resonate with the show great and the point is that there are some people like you who can hold two contradictory ideas and there had right and you like wrestle with that and you're like man how do i make sense of both of these things that you know capitalism is you know fundamentally generates wealth and prosperity and all that sort of stuff but corporations can do fucked up things right how do i reconcile those two different things and then a whole bunch of people out there on the internet where a fundamentalist or who offer some sort of there very simple narrative that is very easy for people to get and people go and go down the rabbit hole of their prejudices they can go down the rabbit hall of you no care
and compassion in the end up at marxism right from when people can go down the libertarian rabbit hole of freedom and so they come up with his idea called a narco capitalism and a cap is the idea that we're just gonna remove all government and then the free market will solve all problems clearly going to be minimal or no government there the most annoying people their credit and annexes to me the most annoying people like you you don't know that that's gonna fall the shit you don't know the people are gonna fix the streets where money for education come from who's gonna higher cops anybody know laws all shut the fuck up well but what i love battalion so stupid well i got in a big fight over the christmas holidays with a group of an arc of capitalists and was literally because one of them there's this it was there are two things we interviewed there's this guy peter chef in peace
ship is a little out of my i am so anyway so i interviewed peter chef and we knew no part of the experience of doing this podcast with brian cowen as you know we interviewed in all these academics right two hundred and you know six of them right and then we had episode who oh six weeks there are two things that we sort of noticed a there were all these amazing ideas be you would find that any academic new about his amazing idea and nobody else like that about anything else that was going on in science or anything like that like merrill's troop doesn't understand mme exactly so the marrow streep effect through i bet that academics are like and it again it actually comes out a sort of what the western cultural biases which is towards this thing called optimism right like scientists are soon were focused on a tiny tiny question they don't look
the bigger picture and we reached this frustration where essentially we were like these ideas you can't you know there's an old george bernard shaw joke about economists he said all the economist laid end and would never reach a conclusion and it's the same thing with academics all the academics laid end would never reach a conclusion all the science the piles up all this sort of stuff what does it mean like what should we do how should we live our lives how do we solve the problems of people in get us how do we solve the problems of the people in the middle east how do we saw make liberals have some sort of perspective legrand how do we do these things and that's you know science should turn into practical things
in some areas it does right so you know there's a good sort of you know there's physics has said jason profession engineering right and engineers go and they look at the laws of physics and they figure out how to engineer quantum computers and all the other stuff right but when you talk about the human sciences the adjacent profession that supposed to be there storytelling so there's was called the science to narrative chang where you're supposed to take science all of this research and supposed to turn it into simple stories that people can understand and get and there is in fact just to give you a sense of this problem like everybody knows that scientists aren't the best communicators right like the ones that are people a meal the grass thyssen right you get on the show cause you're like man a fuckin scientists who can communicate like a human right or carl sagan orbit unit these people are fucking unicorn right are very very rare in the scientific community so i had my very expert specific experience was i i when a graduate
college i started tutoring just to pay my bills but i was really trying to figure out i had this weird experience where would you working with kids and i would hear them say things like oh i didn't get the mass jean i was like what the fuck is that marin cause i was about chemistry major sunlike remit like you're third pain and failing biology you're telling me that you have a math gene and i just major biochemistry we don't know about any matching over there so what the fuck you talking about someone's telling them some somehow there picking that are getting this idea that's right limited potential that's right now so that was a detective hunt that i went on was like there because there's a lot of these things i don't have a natural ear for languages red that's another big when we third and you know
oh i'm not a natural rider and all these sorts of things and i was like water all these fucking beliefs right and i could tell that they were they were problematic and that they were self defeating and specifically you know having moved between all these cultures i'd seen that different cultures have very different ideas about intelligence so especially if you like my mother and my father's side by side on the issue of learning languages my dad is dutch ok now when you're dutch you grew up with one great certainty in life just that no one will ever fucking learned when there no one has ever gonna fuckin learn dutch so if you want to get a job and you want to be competitive you better learn literally everybody else's fuckin language so you know a routine and holland to speak three for languages and you know my dad spoke and write he studied tender for islands in his life that's crazy well in its it's actually there anybody who from a lot of these minority languages sort of smaller shitty languages you finally do that so poor
is routinely learn a lot of languages people from south east asia routinely learn a lot of languages and again it's that environment like you lost the language lottery and so you better make up for it like you're just gonna have to do that and at a certain point when you learned three or four languages it's now like oh you'd like sus this thing out you're like oh i get how this works like this is just about work and their certain techniques and certain approaches you start to get really really good at it so you know i really sort of from my dad picked up this love of learning languages and my dad is you know sort of especially into languages like every time they even really like school and every time you would tell him he had to take another subject he would look up another language to take so for his temple he ended up taking swedish because in the sixty
seventies all the porno were made and sweet and he wanted to know what they were saying between sexual thrusts larry so he learned swedish she learned all these fucking weird language is right because there there are like ok you need me to take another class i'm gonna do something that i enjoy right but i'm pretty nor an accent but then on the other hand my mom's from kansas and in kansas they don't speak foreign languages like that's not the thing that's done and so there would be this experience of like you know i japanese in high school and i would be like oh yeah i'm taking japanese and they go like what the fog like who are you and you taken latin in ancient greek and there like that's fine can weird and you know so you're moving between these two different environments near like i feel like the issue here is that you just think about languages in different ways i don't know that it's that you have different potential you just have different attitudes to write so
hearing all these kids say all these bizarre things and you know at the time i was doing a tutor in company with a friend of mine from college who is from new england and you know the new england is that puritan culture right it's you know all self nile no fun work hard all that sort of stuff so she also heard all these weird and wacky beliefs and she was like you know reacted in the most puritan way possible which is like you just being fuckin lazy for what is happening in europe are going to work no excuses right isn't that boston attitude at so evelyn attitude and so you know you ve got this bostonian and then you ve got this half dutch half american you know lived with the lie means you know all this sort of stuff right and where like where the outside or its that experience you talked about of foreigners who come to america or anybody and we're like this culture of l a is fuckin weird know what brought you here
well i always wanted to move to the west coast so you know i watch triggered last night and i grew to california is the best place on earth but burton really cause i mean you know i mean it is the what part of what i found like a lot of what i was racking against right you leave places cause there's like something you dont like and the road at the most opposite place you can find and so i didn't like the culture of england i didn't like aristocracy it didn't like that whole class system i fucking hated it and then when i went to boston in new york i felt like there is still a lot of that sort of hierarchy and i think that a is the place where it's like nobody gets a fuck where you come from like there isn't that hierarchy you know all that the doesn't matter it's the wild less and i love that it definitely has a lot of ways and means to me i think it's the last place that people we know
landed on the east coast they made their way the west coast and allow women why yes it is well say exactly nets litter and the people that did moved to hawaii that's why yet mean i i fuckin love hawaii wanna things i love about it is the ex paths that are able to go you know what man fuck it yeah fuck it i'm just out here now yet and that's that's the culture that i always wanted to be a part of was the culture that it's like who the fuck cares like we're done with that shit but hawaii too much right well you know i mean i probably should have gone to hawaii zadig it's hot while at sea like now it's more viable than ever before yeah gives the internet in jest of a pretty much access evenly to everything other than like what's immediately in your area but also and i think also its import to talk about like how to humans actually work right and it's often that you know i mean so a large part of what comes out of the sciences that thinking and feeling are always linked written so often driven by feelings that we can't quite explain
so you know the why was i also motivated by allay i think there was some attraction to the entertained the mystery comedy storytelling i dont really you know like if you being really honest like why the fuck do you make any decision that you make when you're twenty to twenty three right right leg you just announced their stand there some sort of cultural baggage that's dry having you there they watch baywatch like exactly what you have some sort of fantasy version it is the final mask of its assent or where do you think there are no cats in los angeles constraints are paid to achieve and then you get you're like they're fucking scientologists everywhere will do that's the one of the things i want to talk to you about before we likely i wanted to talk to you about your you're calling richard dawkins scientologist yap so that the larger so we ve now gotten a taste
some of the things that are going on across science right there's lots of really exciting stuff can actually change and improve and help peoples live but one of things i think he pointed out that's incredibly critical is that two or in order to be at the top of your field yeah you must be completely absorbed in their particular subject and oftentimes a lot like all the other systems that we find the limited resources and i really don't have the time or the end or even the inclination to study all these other comparable sis arms or different disciplines or take mean that theres many many many many examples of that but singular folk says which usually leads to greatness and when you reading about some professors peer reviewed that's currently groundbreaking oftentimes you're dealing with a form of greatness and that requires massive tunnel well it that's the interesting thing so we should talk about what tunnel vision is right so
there's you know just as we have optimism pessimism there are these other two might sets optimism and wholesome right and adam is the seeing the tree right you like ignore the fucking for rest and you're just like i'm gonna look at that one fuckin tree and become the world's expert in that and then there's hole is in which is seeing the big picture seeing the forest seeing all that sort of stuff now again everybody has these mindsets but different cultures favour them differently again because of the environmental pressures of that environment so the greeks massively favoured optimism and if you look at the behaviour of the greeks right the ancient greeks are constantly picking everything apart right because they were pirates heightening pirates and traders and fishermen and in that environment it's not about co op nation or anything like that it's about everybody just trying to get ahead for themselves and all this for some very individualistic all that stuff and so when they would at least have leisure time what were the things they
dead while they would go and they would go into the market place and they would argue with each other and pick a part each other's arguments and they would just pick pick pick pick pick pick pick and that's what logic is in rhetoric and all that and then they would also you know when they had other ledger time they would go and see who could throw shit farthest right like who could run fast as it's all about standing out it's all about trying to excel and be the best and what happened is it that you know the is during the renaissance the they salient renaissance or falls in america's renee sounds were so what word what is one of the american way i want to fit in grasslands renaissance renaissance rain authority paris lower like the renaissance batty harris paris france safer ass now
france from france legislator really channel my inner kansas out are the renaissance well when every one of fuckin caller right what are you birth the writer threat or they basically were obsessed with the greeks and they were absent the romans were obsessed with the greeks and then when the rebirth of one s also happened they were absent should the romans and the greeks and so they became obsessed with this culture and that's how you start to get this culture of individuals and that develops the founding fathers were obsessed with that and so that becomes a lot of the spirit of the way last right is this real atavistic culture meanwhile overrun asia right they have different incentives which is rice farming and so what happens is that rice farming is you know you have to be super cooperative because the water runs down the mountain that runs through my paddy field but then it runs through your neighbor's how do you feel that all that sort of stuff so i have to have relations with
i neighbor and that neighbour and then i have to think about how it affects the next guy in the next day and the next and the next so they favour whole ism how does everything fit together and so if you look at what is eastern culture about what are those an asian cultures about its all about union yang things fitting together in complimenting at all being part of a larger system and confusion is was all about the family relationships and everybody has their proper role and you all sort of to belong and all tat sort of stuff right so which set of biases do you think that science has baked into its culture adamant yeah and so what when you get the structure of scientific culture as it stands today its super animistic right now if you look at things like economics and psychology in you biology in all of these sorts of things there all studying natural world and in fact there is a whole bunch of disciplines that are all studying humans and
they behave and all that sort of stuff and yet there all broken up into separate disappear and now there should have doubling down on those intuitions and there now breaking up those disciplines into sub disciplines and smaller disciplines and smaller disciplines and left to their own devices still just keep splitting up from getting smaller and smaller group where does feminism i well but they that's i mean out the what what happens is that as you smaller and smaller and smaller disciplines that it doesn't necessarily make the science better it can make the science worse and the reason why it makes a science worse theseus wade understand it is the story
blind men in the elephant right so this is an old story about from india about religion so group of blind mendous i come along they decide to figure out the elephant so this what this thing is right they don't know it's often so the first one comes up and he feels the tale any filthy ended any feels little hare is at the end he says it's a rope right in the second one goes along and he feels the trunk and a rise in his hands and he jumps back start on these like it's a snake right and the third one feels a leg he thinks to column the fourth one feels the side he thinks the wall and then the fifth feels the ear and decides that it's a palm leaf and then they all proceed to beat the shit out of each other because clearly everybody else a fuckin idiot and they need to die because they oh that it's a rope it's a snake it's a lag it's a wall it's a column whatever it is right now if you look at something like feminism right feminism is making certain claims about biology riots
can claims about how male gender works how female gender works you know they should be looking at things like genetics and they should be looking at you know chromosomes in there be looking at evolution to see how evolution might have selected for differences in men and women because there are different competing sure as for men and women and in fact if you go into you no actual science you'll find that there is actually lots of science about that but what's happened is that feminism has become its own tribe right and as a tribe it rejects the findings of other try right so i if i go into you know the circles of feminism or sociology or you know any other tribe and i start talking about you know the evidence of some other tribe there like oh that doesn't count right it's easy
rationalize it away and so now we are no longer grounded in reality and what we can do is we can take that tail and we can convince ourselves that it's a rope right because we're not accountable to all of these other fields that surrounding it so make sense yes so what if you want to solve the problem what you have to do is that you have to make each discipline accountable to all the other disciplines you have to make people responsive to evidence outside of their field so if you take someone like richard dawkins right has richard dawkins gone down his particular rabbit hall of fame
hang out you know his tiny piece of the world yes he has done that and what makes you think that well i can tell you so in general what you're going to find is that there's in a lot of different fields you're going to find that there are two competing theories right now so for example if you look in economics there's this idea you know there's sort of what are called classical economics and they have this idea called rational agent theory and they basically think it's a reasonable approximation to assume that people are national right that the act as rational individuals and all this sort of stuff and then meanwhile there's another school called behavioral economics and because of an economy in an aim is diversity who were these two israeli psychologists the nineteen seventies restored to study human rationality and i am sure this will come as a huge surprise but what they found is that humanitarian tat repression
right and so there was a group of experts economists who say hey our whole discipline is based on this idea of rational agent theory but when we look at psychology that assumption doesn't check out and it leads to a whole bunch of bad conclusions so they formed a new school of economics called behavioral economics which is based on all the findings of cycle gee how humans actually think and all that sort of stuff now these two schools or warring right there to fighting tribes but what ends up happening is that they can't solve that discipline they can't solve that acted act but in the context of academia right they fire papers back and forth lots of discussions or had in all its forms but essentially you have a recurring problem in science which is that scientists won't let go of their pet theories they won't let their theories die and max plank the physicist had this famous quote that he said science proceeds one funeral at a time
an essentially what happens is that science isn't progress because you know people are like hey new evidence came out turns out i was wrong now i'm going to change my mind because it's their theory and so they keep on fighting for funding their theory until their dead and then the discipline is like ok now that that guy's dead are that was dumb all along let's move forward interesting so ego becomes a sort of trap huge problem huge problem for science and general and so if you look at for example that rational agent theory dispute there's a that one of the big founders of behavioral economics this guy richard sailor basically you know he tells a great story in the story is that he's at a dinner party and at this dinner party there's this famous economists on the whole rational agent theory camp and this there's also like a bunch of other academics like a psychologist
and so the guy who believes in rational agent theories going on and on about how fucking dumb people are right how a rational they are so he's hang on about his own wife he says my wife is so a rational she i bought a new car but she won't drive it and that makes no sense cause she's worried about dinging but she's already paid for the car she should use it god humans or saw a rational and then he goes and my students my students so fucking dumb right they can even understand the most basic you know economic concepts and all that that's herself and so the psychologist pipes up and says how come all the people in your theories are geniuses but all the will you know in real life are idiots and that's a problem that's a real problem for your theory right because you
arabs observations about reality do not fit your theory but what is this guy do does this guy say you know what i'm going to fall on my sword i'm going to throw out thirty forty years of work on a bad idea so he's not going to say that instead what he does he does what rich taylor calls the invisible hand wave where he proceeds to waive his hand and say well you know there might be some ash banality blah blah blah blah but in the end market sort things out and that's he's rationalizing scientist rationalist humans rationalize they wanted to send their own most cherished ideas and so that's not this is not a problem of richard dawkins is a problem of humans right and if humans have power and intellectual power as a form of power and it's not act they will continue to rationalize their bad ideas so specifically what bad ideas is doc international as well so there's you know the intellectual dispute is this so in the
nineteen sixties there was this idea of group selection but it was very fuzzy and it was a shitty version of group selection right which is the idea the natural selection happens not only at the level of genes but also at the level of human groups and the idea that slut it is happening many many many levels and so dawkins in nineteen seventy six rights this big important book the selfish gene and its basically that you actually don't need group selection to make sense of a lot of behavior you can just use with called kids action so for example you might do something nice for your sister or you might potentially you know die to save your sister but we can make sense of that at the level of genes because essentially you know you sisters shares many of the same jean so you know you don't need this idea that groups matter now since then what's happened is that there are and this is a large part of what the problem is that some people read that book including jeff skilling and they concluded that what they
means is that the way to get ahead is to be selfish just going the ceo of enron writing you'll hear in business circles you'll hear this this idea of like oh it's all about law of the jungle kill or be killed like that's how you get ahead you know survival of the fittest so confirmation by so the exact confirm their ideas about cuts riding in business that's right and skip you know that's what killing probably wanted to believe and so he read dawkins block and he's like ah now i have intellectual credibility for what i wanted to do anyway and so soon lying runs enron based on those ideas and what has that's what he said what skilling yes so he said that he based on darkens idea well i said that the selfish jean was his favorite book ok i've unite to find out i don't know exactly everything that skilling his right but he said it was his favorite book and it is in general a big problem science is the big magic of our time right like its if you want to justify like them
when they try and justify their if the sort of feminist who try and say that cheap nor does it matter it's also for constructive they try do it all in terms of science right when the not do that win what what science to that point too well they have you know some sort of idea of culture or whatever but these other alot of i is that masquerade as science right so you know the knots the eugenics movement you know the nazis that was tat was based on some sort of idea that they thought was science at the time you know the soviets had this guy sancho who was the opposite and he believed that you know genes could be like he thought you could literally shock and electrocute seeds to make them do what you wanted them to do cause genes in really matter and it was all conditioning right or you know behaviour ism right was bf skinners idea which was the idea that it was all stimulus response the human minded and eggs
there were no beliefs and all that stuff and a lot of the way that education for example that a lot of the educational pace choices that are made in the fifties were based on skinners ideas which then fox up ahead a bunch of kids you know either what ends up happening is that either science supplied or its misapplied or its misinterpreted or people you know read a particular scientific study and dont have the contacts on it and so you know these bad ideas permeate and their applied and all that sort of stuff right and so the debate for example of round rational agent theory is not some act is an academic debate but in addition to being an academic debate economist supply those ideas and we know the public needs to if the public once it's it's experts and its leaders to make the right decision
that has to hold them accountable on their ideas and so you know if if you have you no science also has to police who has their backing right and it needs it has responsibility to communicate to the public what is the best scientific understanding available today so skilling takes the sun the genie runs with that and clearly that's thinking that was very popular in the seventies and eighties the me generational lets herself so that selfish jean sort of slots into a culture that is already sort of looking for that to be true right and it lends this credibility and what has happened and is that the science has now moved on to to decide
you have multi level selection and a lot of what we ve been talking today in terms of how group's work and how culture works is all based on those ideas and there's a whole group of academics and a whole bunch of different disciplines that have these ideas and you know their people like john high people like joe henrik people like david wilson who's the big multi level selection guy and when you put all of their words daniel common right amos diversity nautilus on and on and on but when you put all these ideas together you get a really really compelling narrative now dawkins says that his work was misinterpreted and that essentially the you know just killing misunderstood as work now doc and says very clearly in the selfish gene that you know our natures selfish right so i mean that's that's seems pretty clear
i don't know that just feeling entirely misinterpreted but what david sloan wilson and multi level selection people are saying something very simple and he'll wilson said this is well which is that alturas selfish individuals be altruistic individuals but altruistic groups beat selfish groups so if you want to get ahead right you can get ahead by being a selfish ass hole and fucking everyone right but if you have a group that is based on selfishness and you're trying to fuck everyone then your group going to fall apart and it's going to lose out to an altruistic group so if you compared side by side a company like enron and a company like pixar which you can read about in creativity inc you're going to find that they have two very different in byram
right pixar is fundamentally a cooperative environment is a high trust environment everybody works together you know all of that sort of stuff and it's a sustainable company that year after year turns out great films and does great work and all that stuff enron is a toxic environment because everybody is just trying to get head there is no eye and team there just fucking each other and so the thing blows up now again science has a responsibility to communicate clearly and watch would happen i think in terms of our economy not blowing the fuck up right in terms of corporate nations not engaging that's where toxic behaviour is that you know i don't have the authority cause i'm a nobody right so i can't come out and say this is what science in fact there is literally no human alive today that can come out and say what science is because people can only come out and speak about their tiny field right there's no consistent message
signed by solar stamwood dawkins is arguing against because didn't he also argue for cooperation in this public wasn't one of the chapters of his book nice guys finnish first well but he refused to acknowledge this idea of group that group selection happens right he's refusing to acknowledge like what is is as actual statements houses well i mean the the larger academic debate is like so specifically he rejects the idea that and it's important to realise that the group selection people are not denying can selection so they're not deny darkens is work right their building off of dawkins is work and staff there's this extra fact right
but how do they describe that extra for they described that effect as selfish individuals out compete altruistic individuals now interest groups are compete selfish groups right but if you if if you were to have richard dawkins in this room to day he would not agree with that statement what would you think he would say that selection does not happen at the level of groups and will be the evidence prone con well ultimately what i would like joe and the reason why i called him a scientologist is because you know what should happen in academic debate is that idea should die right that the point of scientific progress is one should live in one one should die right it's thunder dumb too it is enter one ideas leave right now the point is that that's not happening in science what's happening what happened at that dinner party with richard thalers two ideas entered and two ideas
and in general that's a big recurring problem in science happening in economics and its also happening in evolutionary biology now the point is that i'm single individual i can't be annex an expert in all the nuances and all the details of all of these things but what i can do as i can show you the general pattern that happening i can show you what the consequences are for you of these beliefs not changing so the area in which i do know the most right is the area of education and you have some daughters i believe that true yeah so these beliefs that your daughter's have about their intelligence whatever those police may be as of today will have a huge effect on the choices they make in school the choice how they do in education what their experience of school is whether they're happy in school whether there
reductive whether these successful and whether their set up for a knowledge economy which is all about constantly learning to they emerged from school hating school or do they emerge from school loving school did they emerged from school with confidence they can learn what has ever is required or do they feel it they can only be good at some things are not good and other before we get too far off track are distressed i'm still confused as to how you feel dawkins is ignoring the arguments against his work like what what what are his old hastens he's denied is denied this idea of groups election but he had a debate with him but ass they have had to seek an watch somewhere listen dwell there have been debates and you know what has happened is that you know they like for example the what the debate is currently his the debate is currently about how many people are on each side so john height for example on sam harris's podcast and sam harris would agree with richard
darkens right and john high you know they john heightened sam harris disagree on multiple things right they ve had many disagreements in the whole point of their pod cast was to try and have a civil conversation and you know john high said in a difference between you and sam you and i sam is that i'm an an intuition senor rationalist right so sam john john height believes and if you look across the science i think this is what supported is that a thinking and feeling are always linked so we're always being driven by his intuitions even if we don't always understand that there is on the other hand this idea of descartes's error which is the idea that descartes came up with that reason an emotion or separate and there are a lot of that's what the rational agent theories about the idea that you know there's reason its separate from most are these mutually incompatible though yes then that's the point of science is that you're supposed to kill certain ideas so others descartes's errors
typically comes from there's this book by antonio di at usc and it's its based on a series of experiments around this guy named elliot and people like him and so elliot was this munich banker financial guy happy family man all this sort of stuff and he had a brain tumor and so they chopped it out the brain tumor was right here right up at the top of a basic knows and at first it seemed like chopping out this piece of his brain had done nothing right hadn't affected him up totally disposable bit of brain didn't really have a function look at that it was just an optional accessory like the appendix of the brain but then what happens as they come to find out that all of a sudden elliot has all these problems even though his i q is unaffected even though his verbal intelligence is not affected right what's happening is that he is he's making all these terrible decisions
he believes is why first stripper he snobs it that's out actually who elliot as he has this now this guy and it's because you had cancer so don't make fun of an air yeah but you know he his business research we keep spit decision making falls apart he falls for all these con man he's making all these horrible choices any can't decide where to go to lunch so what ends happening is that eleven a m he'll trying to side where am i gonna go to lunch and now by four p dot m lunch has passed and it's because he sat around and tried to calculate rationally where should i go to lunch right he thought about oh you know should i go based on tables and calories and all this sort of stuff and he couldn't make a decision and the reason why because this bit of the brain that was removed turns out is what links thinking and feeling it's your ventral medial prefrontal or tax admit deciding where to go to lunch is influence constantly by our emotions because you know you have you feel like
i or you know you feel like something light or you feel like a meatball sob or whatever it may be where you feel like if you go to this restaurant you run into that really hot waitress or whatever it may be so that alone with the work of daniel conniston and amos diversity and the work of people like john high there is now an immense amount of information that basically understands that descartes who live four hundred years ago was me king shut up when he came up with his theory of the brain right in his theory of the brain of this idea of reason and emotion which floated around in the west for ages and ages and ages it doesn't fit the evidence now that's the basic problem is this that and i will tell you having worked with students your ability to improve their lot once you understand that thinking and feeling are always linked goes massively up because now students are time you i don't have the math gene or i don't have an actor
you're for languages i don't waste my time dealing with that rationalization instead i asked the kid how do you feel about math right how do you feel about your teacher and we start to deal with the feelings and we start to soar through the feelings till we get the feelings lined up in such a way that you are making the right choices and that's that's for me the heart is that their that's that's the problem that i first came to this from was education and all the when you talk about these kids or sort interrupted but it seems almost like you're talkin want a user operator error it's like they there just programmed incorrectly didn't know how to view the world by their culture their cultures fucking them and thereby saving and no in its end and that's what you have to understand is that you know that's human hardware doesn't human hardware has not really changed in the last hundred thousand years but human software the culture that we picked up has evolved over time rise constantly
change and its constantly changing and now especially because the environment is changing so fast because of technology in all these sorts of things up tat filters we need to change the culture fast and we need to change the culture intentionally and they're so but who decides how their culture gets changes is donald trump or in our minds in its and it's not either of us it's should be the group right and the point is to spark a conversation so that we can have this conversation but the point is that there are certain it democrats who are going to try and stand in the way of that conversation and will use their authority to try and shut down that conversation because they're trying to defend their pet theory in whatever discipline did it and as we come back to documents and this is darkens but the point is to recognise its not about dawkins particularly and if you want to get into the woods on like you know of the nuances of all this sort of stuff you should get our either do its own wilson or john hydro joe hen reckon they can like take you through the whole thing but and the basic problem is that there is a lot of science that is really really
useful but you know one man can't figure it all out possible impossible it and you can't hold onto a theory now you have to expose it to the marketplace of ideas it has to be tested and at what i can do because a lot of this comes down to what's permissible in the culture science so if you've got guys like you know you can go if you want to go and like read about what david sloan wilson the saying and all of these guys got to go read their books with your excellent you can also go to david sloan wilson because he has also seen practically how much of these ideas can make a difference in people's lives and actually make people's lives better he's also trying to popularize this so he has a whole website you know this view of life and evo and all this sort of stuff if you want there's a great article by peter turkey whose another guy and he'll take you threw some of this stuff around dawkins and all this stuff but what my my goal with all this stuff with thomas souls work with
you know davidson wilson john high you know karel de waxwork which was launched this education stuff is is that i know that it's not realistic to expect people to that i can't justly put a list on the internet of fifty bucks and be like everybody has to read these fifty bucks like people have other shit to worry about right but if you just subdued daunting concerning offer that just suggested enough people will the ideas will start to permeate will you also what you're good at what you run into and this is part of what i ve run into with education right is so you know along with katy my bostonian friend we took seven different fields of neuroscience and psychology and we condensed them all into one block that we wrote to the teenager as we wanted to have a message problem is most these books are written to adults and you write the book the adult they don't read said the parent reads it nearly all is so great and then now they're in the uncomfortable convert position of like having to have a conversation about school with kids and then the ideas die the ideas don't move so we were
i let skip the middle man and le or middle woman and let's right straight the kid what's the book is called the straight a conspiracy and the reason why we called it straight a conspiracy is because we at the time were working with the son of a guy named stand rojo who was the executor produce run lizzie maguire and we'd being this is the power of emotions by the way like super brothers lizzie maguire lizzie maguire was like that hate hilary duff kids tv show in the nineties it was like super big it was them cyrus low like or early two thousands i think they re so we'd you know we were struggling with how do you have a conversation about education and school in your potential
all these sorts of things with kids and you know our intuitions or worse or of the classic teacher intuitions which is like you can do your main saying like you have so much potential and we were hat was sat down withstand and stand said listen ivy making kids tv for a long time and if i've learned one thing about teenagers it's this their lives suck they may not suck in any sort of objective sense or any sort of geographical sense for any like that but an emotional subjective level they suck and so the only thing you can ever tell them that they will believe is that they ve been lied to and so that's what we did and he said you're the title of your book is the something conspiracy i don't know it is right and so we went away and we did the straight a conspiracy and run other than getting kids to believe them believe in themselves we got them to doubt their doubts and once you got them doubting their doubts then you know all the things that they believed about math chains is that really true how
no that brow like is that really you know i'll etc and then you get that process where are now starting to question things and you know we did the first chapter is all about genius myths which are you know i sense very clever marking schemes that again rely on that thing of all so if you look at some one like steve jobs right steve jobs was very smart marketer right and he created this image right this you know cult of personality around himself which is that you know he made himself seem like this gene yes who out of nowhere came out of all these things people called in the i got in the cult of mac and what is the effect of all the effect of oz blind copying we just had to have that mac product and in that he was copying the play book of another guy much much earlier thomas edison who in his own time created the so called of personality
round himself and at the time was known as the wizard of menlo park but in reality did s and invent the light bulb know he did not the light bulb was around forty five years before he was even born edison ripped off tesla leaves it act blockhead you watch drunk history recede duncan brussels version of now history its on niccolo tesla thomas edison yeah thomas as being a cunt yet amazing and so and that's the point is that you know these these these people were people and you know the myths that you have about geniuses are actually clever advertising schemes but the problem is that it's an ad jingle that that is so good that we ve centrally had that jingle catch trapped in our heads for hundreds and hundreds of years so there is i d is that are passed on like edison had a thousand pants whose name before heat by the time he died he did that's because when you set up an industrial research lab you make sure that your name is on all the patents because that's the whole point of employing a bunch of people is
you know you wanna only ip and that's true for you know mozart was the michael jackson of the seventeen hundreds isaac newton you know they basically knew that they couldn't sell the idea is of gravity so they sold newton is the man the sky who had this great vision blah blah blah the story of the apple and all that bullshit and then einstein you know they needed to package the new physics that was being done by lots and lots of physicists like heisenberg and plank and all that sort of stuff but there was this guy arthur haddington who knew he couldn't sell that so he sold the idea of a boy wonder with crazy hair who had beaten newton and was displacing newton point as you go and you talked of physicists and i'll tell you well not true like einstein didn't really displace newton right we still
use newtonian mechanics we only use einsteinian mechanics when we start to get near the speed of light right so there are all these marketing these marking schemes right but in the market place of ideas part of what happens is that you know there are these big public intellectuals like richard dawkins right and they have a lot of power and it becomes very difficult challenge them and in particular i dont think that anybody particularly wants to go up against richard auctions right here is a sacred cow he is a sacred cow and if you go up against the new atheists or you challenge anything about the new atheists and i have you know i like the the whole rationalist intuitions thing because i've been trying to talk about emotions on our part podcast and i said no hey look you don't have to believe me there's this guy john height is a big famous scientists and all that stuff there's this guy sam harris who has a phd in neuroscience but john high is saying rationalist versus intuitions there's a difference right and i want
talk about that and i'm gonna tell you that i think that in light of the evident sam harris is wrong and i got a whole bunch of angry tweets from a guy named at atheist sense retaining the tell me that i was a fucking idiot blah blah blah on what did i know and how arrogant i was and how dare you and all this sort of stuff but what do they understand your argument i didn't really so what did you just jump out you because the five year questioning his boy you right here the terror that reason emotion or separate and then i moved out to allay and i was in an acting class and a move from an invite is like he said what do you even talking about sam harris knows that most people are being emotional most of the time but the issue isn't what sam harris knows about other people it's what sam harris believe about his own brain right and sam harris muse really and this is not sam's fault as an individual just as none of the cultural stuff tat we ve been talking about his fault i went
i was in college i also believed in this whole idea of descartes error that reason emotion or supper and then i moved out to allay and i was in an acting class and i move an environment that worshiped reason to an environment that worshipped emotion right that's what actors do all day they fucking talk about their feelings and so for somebody who had come from that environment it was super fucking annoying i feel actors really really annoying because they would not stop talking about their feelings and piss me off a piss me off a piss me off and this the point i got so annoying i was like you fuckers don't know what the fuck you're talking about the real authorities are scientists so wanted do i went off when i read the scientists and i found out that the actors were right and it was fucking humiliation and urge them while they were right how they were right about the importance of emotions emotions are hugely important they drive thinking here but that's not what these actors are doing and that you know
just being emotional because its indulge their either being indulgent and they're not managing their emotions were what you're supposed to do right but what you find for example so here is a simple thing you know why is a reason why we say that in it and then you know that intersected with working with students right so if you say example students say i feel stupid turns out that stupid is a feeling specifically its the feeling of shame and care and so on and also being ineffective in your intellectual pursuit and a sense of our house will assess all that's research must feel inadequate that's right and it is specifically to feeling called learned helplessness right enough in academic circles there are terrible names for everything right so but the the feeling of shame motivates a very specific behaviour which is that you avoid the source of their shit you're sheng so when students get back a bad tasked what they do is they want it up and they throw it away and they avoid man they avoid math right now the point is that
that is that behaviour is literally the worst response you can have to failure right refused growing up in math or any other subject what you should be doing is getting out your mistakes analyzed your mistakes and using them to get better and so that very simple thing is what we did with all of our students we sat them down we made them confirm their mistakes we made them say ok number three why did you get number three wrong and then you figure out why number three were is wrong you fix that now how suppose what sam harris believes the point is that does sam does if if an atheist send say and i will tell you that i think that i read your senses pretty rightness a sense in his assessment of what sam harris belize about like most people are emotional most the time but i dont think that sam harris believes thinking and feeling are always linked so that his brain is all know this for a fact of you discuss this with him because i'm not gonna tax from him and bob fuckin filed fucking file and tell you for example okay so
how does sam harris feel about god or how to sam harris feel about religion though pretty open ended question will lend taylor doesn't believe in religion and thinking sir believes in any form of a deity well sought as no evidence for that let's talk about it i know that you have a relationship with sam but k but i am forget about that will all i why those questions and will also if you look at let's look at for example you know you're your friends the inertia capitalists right libertarians right who just want to get rid of government brain and they're just trying to get rid of all government writer so what is that what is that thinking about what is that psychology about or any sort of or muslim fundamentalists who just want to get rid of these western influences they basically think that a certain thing is bad and their constantly trying to strip it out strip it out strip it out strip it out ok that's the nature of fundamentalism coca and richard dawkins and sam harris are eighty
fundamentalists and specifically richard dawkins has talked about militant atheists and they you know and richard dawkins has said that religion is the scourge of humanity and that we need to get rid of religion now in reality if you look at the scientific evidence what you're gonna find out is religion has a very chequered past right and then it's you know that legion has you know in terms of the history of violence right steven pinker has this book the better angels of our nature and he talks about the fact that you know the what the new atheists are saying about religion is not supported by the evidence right that in history religion has not been any one thing right it's just a tad some good things that had some bad things that's not a scientifically appropriate belief to go around and saying that religion is the scourge of all humanity or to be aging war about over religion new dragoon darkened and specific hawkins and you know sam harrison all that's herself and critically dawkins crises the most militant item right separately
in a wider people believe in religion what is religion really about right it's because people don't understand how control their environment and so their minds fill in there trying to make sense of how do we get there the is also like all the rest of culture its passed down that's right learn behaviour and imitating atmospheres and adopting predetermine patterns of behaviour and thinking exactly and so if you if you know dawkins and sam harris their stated objective right as they want to promote evolution bright now i thought i had to tutor some students who were at a christian school that talk creationism and its oaks christian and you know thousand oaks right and i had never like honestly like pre doing that experience i had never thought much about the new atheists like they just weren't a big deal is like ok those guys around doing
ever they're doing right and then i went into this christian fundamentalist school or whenever it is or school the teachers creationism and all they could talk about was richard dawkins and sam harris right they were talking them constantly and in their minds richard dawkins and sam harris represent science they are the face of science in the same way that you know some guy in the mid west when he thinks about when ethan about islam he's thinking about isis or i'll kader all that's were so he doesn't understand those people don't represent the majority of muslims and in the same way in this school right dawkins and harris were being used to represent science in general and who represent evolution in general right so they are essentially for a lot of people forming the stereotype of science now the opposition to them a meal with eight soaked through their in opposition to dawkins and harris and there are certain things they did in their teaching like they would do you know that for
the school i mean it was a weird experience because one the school had the very best rhetoric department that i've ever seen of any school because they knew that they were gonna have people attacking their police for their whole life and so you have to know all the logical fallacy straw man you know too quick way all that's herself and the worst science department fact perfectly seen in my life sure yeah wonder why well exactly and so you know did all sorts of things like for example they had a whole unit on isms right they were like narcotism fascism communism and how bad those were and then right after that they taught the controversy around evolution so they are alike while there are four different theories of the origins of life right one is young earth creationism one is intelligent design one is earth is metaphorical day and then the fourth one is evolution ism right she's create so evolution
ism right so altered telling you the evils of isms that's right so so you got a long circuitous route here so his boy now accusations about hair so well but the problem is wrong with his views on god and what's wrong with his views on religion well that's the point is that religion is a set of beliefs and accurate many of these beliefs are adapted to their environment even though they seem cookie and there also ideologies that are strictly enforced and that's right that's one of the things he has a big issue but the point is that is the issue if if you want it so this comes down to our future
people's minds and what is the science say about how you change people's minds and how do you move ideas okay so you're saying that his marking of these ideas is contrary to the expanding of knowledge its people are going to resist it there and its it doesnt per dumb promoted from productive exchange of ideas between tribes that's isn't that debate about because a lot of people in listening to really excellent constructed arguments against religion will change their mind well like everything right so you know rule thirty four right right so rule thirty four if you can imagine it there is poor if it is not so in the same way if you can imagine it they're a science of it right right but hold on ok so there is actually
and on how ideas move there's a whole field of it and there's this book of called the diffusion of innovations right and i had because i was working with these students right i was trying to figure out how do we get these ideas to move and so i was like oh thank god there's a book all about how ideas move right and what you come to find out is that all of the research shows there's a whole bunch of things that make ideas move one thing is they have to be compatible with people's existing beliefs and then also they have to be paid practical so they have to confer some sort of practical benefit right so if he in terms of moving evolution the first thing is to recognise that you know if we really want to like not to spend another hundred fifty years it means having a fight between site some religion all that's stuff the first thing to realise that what people like david soon wilson are saying is fundamentally compatible with christianity right because they understand
that you know that altruism matters right all the sort of stuff right and proper that the sort of dock dawkins type notion of its all about selfishness and everybody just trying to fuck everybody and all that sort of stuff part of it is that doesn't fit well with christianity right doesn't fit well with religious notions right secondly all this stuff than on time out with cultural evolution is deeply practical right you can see that if we have a conversation as humanity about culture and how my choices are being driven all that's for to somehow so that i can change my culture in all that sort of stuff that we can fix a whole lot of things that notion of culture relies on group selection bring it relies on this multi level selection idea that dawkins is not on bored with all that sort of stuff and sam harris is not on board with so ultimately what i want to do as i want to move these ideas but the whole point is joe with that part of these
why you brought me on this podcast today is specifically because i called out richard dominance now now brought yon because brian cowen recommends you and i will listen you honest podcast ok had nothing to do with our southern reinvesting topic of discussion ok but i still don't i understand you're saying that essentially sam harris's fusion or refuse rather of religion and his ideas about spreading what he believes the empirical truths about science in some how're another causing a resistance to these very ideas because of the way he's presenting because that he's not presenting them in a form that psychologically digestible is idle you're saying yes and also fundamentally he creates us the stereo type of scientists that is being formed around him and what is that well is this their angry aggressive they doesn't seem again
so lonesome degrasse it's not it's not about really mean that was the point of like spending time in italics question about how i was perceiving them because i wasn't thinking about them before these are people that are pushing a ridiculous the algae and the enemies of that ridiculous ideology they attack but you are attacking but the lazy eyes but the basic problem is attacking right but it's over small segment of mean schools doing this right you're dying mother how long to enable these christian school how many people believe in evolution is probably a giant number well i mean you know i'd worry you can look at different peoples but it's like fifty fifty think i think forty so forty six percent according to recent gallop over my joke was always like who the fuck answers for
exactly is it like one out of a hundred well exactly like on triggered last night at our idea that people dumb enough to answer pole sets right one percent but but ultimately that's the the you know the sort of the larger thing that i would like to achieve rain is a scientific reformation right so you know you the you know martin luther triggers this this reformation with the catholic church and all that sort of stuff at the cornerstone of the core of the catholic church was this idea i love my neighbors thyself and basically martin luther said the people in the power in this in the religious establishment or not living that principle right at the core science is the idea that we should be responsive to evidence right and the scientific aside fishermen is often not living or the academic establishment is not living that that that you know principle right so and part of the problem is that left to their own devices they will can
new to remain in their tiny lanes and a lot of these academic disputes can only be solved by going outside their lines so for example if sam harris was here right now said the sun the pub with brian the one thing that i wanted would want to talk about the only thing that i would want to talk about is this rationalist verses intuition ist idea try and reach some sort of definitive conclusion on that because if sam harris thinking and feeling are always being linked than he has to decide how his feelings about religion are driving his thinking and where his feelings about religion are appropriate in light of the evidence or they're not appropriate so make sense religion as itself tell when you talking about evidence its dreamily lacking in that so when what he's talking about is people that are subscribing to a very rigid ideology that he thinks is compromising growth in the sea get out john heights book the happiness i pots this right which is this is something that jesus talked about a long time ago right just that it's easy
you understand i understand this but with this religious discrimination is based on an ideology of course that's written animal skins from thousands of years ago and extreme ignorance so there's much more or two then than just saying that it's it's a similar racism will over what i'm saying is that you know in this is again so there's a there's a larger principle here right and again you can find it in you know john heights book the happiest ipods us right which is this is something that jesus talked about a long time ago right just that it's easy to see the split in my brother's eye but hard to see the login my own so enjoy well when you talk to people write like if you look at jordan petersen right jordan petersen criticizes people on college campuses right and he you know that us right you comes on my show it comes on your show and ever we all chairman we're like that so fucking great right ah what is the reaction of jordan petersen gets on his campus mixed
mixed jumping some people are suited him these already loader upset at that's right and so for example when i took when i challenge these you know the unesco capitalist libertarians all that's stuff i got some people cheering me on and then a lot of people calling me intellectually dishonest or whatever and all tat sort of stuff right these arguments notice these arguments as they currently stand are easy there's a lot of material to try right and you know in the end like my job is to communicate them as clearly as possible over what i'm saying is is that if you want to move science like science has a communication problem right ok now if you read people in i would like to go on day hill just be like people you're fuckin dumb science is complicated right you me you going you go on these big broad journeys rifle come back so so so what i'm saying is that so harris and richard dawkins are the kind of friends it
friends like sam harrison richard dawkins signs doesn't need enemies they are alienating they are not helping us and they are getting in the way of communicating science i understand because of the very approach that they're taking if science was to adopt the approach of we are here in light of the diffusion of innovations which is above all about i feel the same way about milligram thyssen is open criticism of religion while i think in general that i don't think that the criticism of religion is helping science it's a hundred and fifty year old science has been at war with religion four hundred fifty year so you don't think that science should be honest or that i think issues will thus scientists should be honest about their own personal but we all but the point is that i believe that scientists should read science widely and if you look at someone like john high part of the reason why on height and sam harris have fought is because john he doesn't have a problem with religion because when you update your view of the book jane you come to realise that what's really going on is that you
blindly internalize the beliefs of you no science in your community and all that sort of stuff and they blind the internalize the beliefs of their community and that if you want to move ideas if you want to move scientific ideas what we have to do is establish trust what specifically are they blindly interpreting but what is this idea of that region and emotional separate but what how does that apply strictly to religion is beliefs on religion being incorrect because if you look at the behaviour of fundamentalists right they get very into the the literal taxed in the wording in all sort of stuff right and it's the same with sam harrison richard dawkins right there super in two like breaking apart what is the koran say what is the bible says
all the swear to stop and what really matters is what is the spirit in which is being approached what are how do you feel about these things so if you look at something like gay marriage right or homosexuals right what is the bible say on homesexuality well it says two totally different things there's what's what it says about saddam in gomorrah and then there is what it says about you know love thy neighbour as thyself and if you hate gaze you're going like all saddam ngo more that's the thing right and if you like gay people you have a nice gay neighbour whatever you're like all lovely neighbours thyself rang right so you she was not the text the issue is what is the person feel about the thing right that's that's the psychology that is driving it right i so the point is that if you want to fix the problem right you don't work about the text right you dont worry about what are the little if the taxes preposterous that should be discussed well me of their bid the text promotes
violence against women or against any particular group that doesn't believe what you believe it's discussed because its problematic right but different people like has the bible changed in the last four hundred years but different peoples interpretations of the bibles have right right and so for example you know if you look at if you look at for example where muslims now and where christians now roca look at christianity and sixty nine well this is an issue that michael shermer wrote about recently about islam not experiencing the enlightenment that other religions have gone through this well it's it's been specifically about islam experiencing a deal i meant what right does in the year one thousand they were but so the real thing that if you want to fix islam and again like me you know i was born in saudi arabia my parents live in dubai like there are conversations happening about this
will you have to do is that you have to change the intellectual climate but the but the intellectual climate has nothing to do with the text it has to do with a lot of what people believe about learning what they believe about themselves whether they find ideas threatening and that the text that when is long in the year one thousand right was the most intellectually advanced place on the planet and the text that is long is using now has not changed so what happens is that people like sam harrison richard dawkins they get super caught up in the text but really if you want to fix these problems you have to talk about you know what are your beliefs about your intention intelligence how do you feel about other cultures you have to talk about feelings and that's really where the conversation changes and the point is that rationalists don't talk about feeling
so that's the real i mean that is the core of what needs to happen and the science is there to do that but the point is that you know let's put these people side by side john high has a following of essentially zero rights richard dawkins has a huge following right sam harris has a big following someone like joe henrik might probably maybe has three twitter followers so the people who are representing science right and meal digress thyssen you know no one's quest like does near the grass thyssen no way the fuck more about astrophysics than i do one hundred percent i don't know that neil de grass thyssen has for example read the diffusion of innovations because i will tell you that i've had numerous academics on the pod cast for example david sloan wilson davidson wilson right i asked him you know he sent me this thing back in two thousand fourteen and it was a sixty
seven page paper and it said you know it was towards the science of intentional behavior change or something like that and i read the sixty seven pages and at the end of the 16th seven thousand two hundred and sixty seven pages i'm like i feel like what you're actually talked about his how do you move ideas and wasn't that already solved with the diffusion of innovations and he said oh i you know if obviously heard of the diffusion of innovations like every rogers is literally you know famous work but i've never made a close study of it now that innovations was written in nineteen sixty seven it is an inn nation that hasn't diffused and that specifically because even though it set practices wit preaches one thing about how ideas move it's written in that dry scientific technical style
so a guy like neil degrasse tyson you know or sam harris were richard dawkins or david sloan wilson or john hyde or joe henrich or any of these guys often have not heard of ideas that are relevant to the conversations that we're having like i do not judge that the ideas are moving between signs is thus a bizarre conversation have you dont know whether or not they have read that well but you can look look at people's behaviour and you can see for people's behaviour whether they understand certain things are known whether they agree with certain things mean yeah because their behaviour doesn't isn't compatible to that paper doesn't mean that they haven't read it and just decided that they don't agree are they haven't another point of view well i mean that for you know the okay if mean if we're going to really get into this
really camp we will where we're way over were left twenty five minutes oversight was trying to figure out a way to skirt out here quick but but i mean the that's the point that i'm trying in the large i think the main point is that you know from all of our conversation about culture rang there are ideas out their trapped in books which is the whole point what we doing on the brain callin show that have real practical value to improving people's lives those ideas are not moving
and part of raising their all kind of moving a maiden while it had ewing right now everything is moving well but while so part of the diffusion of innovations right so the book opens with a story about scurvy right so scurvy is you know this problem that killed two million people right and you know it's all comes down to victim in seed efficiency and it's the simplest solution in the world you just suck on a line so between scurvy being figured out right in a sort of academic contacts and between it being applied one hundred two years passed a hundred and fifty years so the point is that ideas don't move or they didn't have the internet but it's not even about that it's that i isn't it i mean is that the best way distribute information as the internet the barren areas it took a hundred fifty years to first scurvy too curate even though the information was there do you think that directly concern
words with the lack of the ability to express and information it has to do with him at the point of the diffusion in the nation's to have to do with the ideas being packaged in a way that is culturally and psychologically compatible with what people believe and it being shown that they have practical value the basic barrier is this why have idea heavies its unity this the science of evolution has been around four hundred and fifty is that vitamin c example that you using your talking about an extremely limited amount of education available when people were not expressing this well what eighty forty seven comparison two thousand sixteen or seventeen let me giant difference here but you got two million people dying right there were two million people dying was a huge problem they didn't know how to solve it and these ideas didn't move right but how can you pair that today well of what would the mean that the text that mean you know women joe we can't do the we can't do the experiment where you know why
we have one world where we don't move that we don't do anything to package and move the ideas and we have an a world where we do actively worked train package and movies ideas we can't do that but it's a hundred sixty years difference in time the world is a different world while the technology is different but the human mind hasn't changed the human mind hasn't changed really in ten thousand years the human mind might not have changed genetically but its understanding of the world has changed radically less understanding of what a vitamin is well but not today ethically different between you understand well but that's also important is that it's important to realise that when this whole scurvy conversation was going on they didn't have the concept of vitamin a narrow thick concepts that you don't have right now in terms of this idea that king and feeling or always linked right this idea of descartes error that's not our culture doesn't talk about him oceans in a way where they understand o this behaviour of the student where they want the testing they throw it all away that is being driven by an emotion alot of people understand that though do they shore
sure a lot of people understand that people get humiliated by failure and that it makes him pull back ok so you don't grow and would people teach people there's a lot of things that people teach about learning new information to make an encouraging and to make it enjoyable and to express boundless potential not express in a very clear jude boundaries that you're never going to cross and that you can import these very limiting ideas into children's minds or you can spanned upon their potential horizons by promoting this idea of accessibility and of of massive potential of course but is it is standard practice in america schools today when a student or though one student gets a bad task that we all work through those miss takes an analyze some i dont know what the standards it is now today started ass a shitty teaching where are they not a matter of lack of understanding amongst certain individuals about the way people are motivated and not motivated well there may be
small number of individuals but that doesn't mean that that is the general consensus i don't even know if it's a small number i think it's a very large number i'll just not the consensus why do you think that asian cultures do better in school then american culture probably discipline where a lot of it is that faith and intelligence they really believe practice makes perfect anything work hard at something you'll get better is also cultural isn't that is culture art and for you americans don't have that culture today they don't have that faith it if you bust your ass new really work hard that you'll get better they did have i don't think that people have that idea do that's a giant generalisation women look at their american don't have but look at the results are met what is a massive hotbed of innovation and creativity are which is the part which is part of america in particular is a massive hotbed of innovation which subculture its silicon valley so in values one it's incredibly innovative what about the artistic community what about musicians massive amounts of comedy massive
mounds of writing literature fiction lot of its coming from work up total all corners of the spot totally but at the same time is the you know wires american students doing law school shitty stewed or should he excuse me shitty teachers rather shitty culture and malta that to an obvious lack of a lack of resources being applied to schools i mean find out what a teacher salary is you found a how little their respective when is a real issue for sure yeah we're not we absolutely agree on that and a large part of it is is it there are you know there are complicated fixes like fixing how much we pay teachers and all that sort of stuff and there are simple fixes and things that we can fix pretty simply and ideas that you can promote our you know embrace your mistakes analyze your mistakes fail forward and that is the eye that is the cornerstone value of hey i which is why are safer flying than walking is the cornerstone valley value of silicon valley and i will tell you
having worked with lots and lots of students and travelled all across the country that is not the core value of a lot of american students we gotta wrap this up yes are it's already five o clock i'm in trouble thank you very much man i gotta do it again it seems there is a lot more exact there's a lot of shorter argue fucks sumatra by thank you everybody for tuned into the podcast and thank you to our sponsors thank you first world caveman coffee for half in aiding me through this experience caveman coffee c o dot com use the code word rogan and you will save ten percent off of any of their awesome coffee or awesome beverages are awesome she's thank you also to square space build yourselves mother fucker of aware besides with square space you can make fuckin killer website all on your own you can do it it
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Transcript generated on 2020-03-13.