« The Joe Rogan Experience

#996 - Dr. Andy Galpin

2017-08-09 | 🔗
Dr. Andy Galpin is a Professor of Kinesiology at the Center for Sport Performance at California State University, Fullerton. He has a Ph.D. in Human Bioenergetics and is the founder and director of the Biochemistry and Molecular Exercise Laboratory. His new book Unplugged is available now on Amazon.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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in mixed martial artists and moments all about what makes you better and he has a book out as well damn it he left in the other room with the title his book yes that's his book a big fan dude that is getting a very interesting twitter page doctor andy galpin and who is a great guest i really enjoyed it got a lot of interesting information it's very very honest about what we know what we don't know and what is good for you so please welcome doctor andy galpin the joe rogan experience trying my day joe rogan podcast by night all day yes what's up man how are you fantastic thanks for doing this appreciate it shit let me come up so i want to tell people what you do
i am a muscle physiologist so i'm a phd in human bioenergetics and i'm the director for the center for sport performance which all that basically means i study muscle physiology why it grows shrinks repairs dies and all that crap now when you're dealing with athletes and you deal with like state of our performance how much that stuff change like year year like protocols like what people you just think was the way to go what's the new way to go well if you take a look or if you examine just the idea of science in general it's the understanding that were wrong that totally what science is if we knew and the answer was we wouldn't look into it like what's the point of doing study if we know the answer right so bye definition we're always evolving in that sense but it's quite funny how the central tenants are really not that different
you take training the vast majority of those things are of similar to what they were twenty thirty eighty a hundred years ago so the bulk of it what matters for the bulk of athletes is fairly standard what where differs is the last few percentage for it's it's getting us that last ten percent gains or being very specific so you on a personal level need this little bit of difference and then you need this tiny bit of difference but the bulk of it really is not that different well when you watch in mma fighters in particular you see so many different methods mean so many different ways to approach things and i never know who's right you know is it really depends upon who successful and then you go well that guy obviously has it down yeah that's a major fallacy called the fallacy of authority so oropi so authority which is somebody really good did it or somebody who coaches somebody really good they did it or a lot of people did all three of those are examples of major logical fallacy's right to breakdown aristotle's reasoning that's not what we do
couples with some ideas of where to go but that's a really bad approach so we have to under and like what works for somebody at a very high level is not necessarily going to work for the bulk of people and particular if like the great exam this is schwarzenegger so when he came out with this book of the encyclopedia of bodybuilding everyone was like fantastic i'll go do those workouts you're not aren't and if you should be doing what arnold did when he was at your stage not at his stage will also in a bucket of steroids all that too right that's a big factor like if it especially back in those days they didn't come clean about that stuff now so guys are like hey i called my biceps are ripping off the bone right or how come it's not working for me yeah yeah all is is really important understand with the context of recover free the nutrition has all the other stresses that are illuminated from his life all of that change is what's going to work or not work for you now there's a bunch
different ways of approaching things like i've always been fascinated by the mark moran of its method and now nick curse on takes that method as well and their idea is that strength and conditioning is especially when fighters in camp is more important than anything more important and skill work right because you already know how to fight just so strength and conditioning should take precedent get all that done so get your body to the point where you have the most horsepower the biggest gas tank the best tires you know the is handling and then you already know how to fight so just approach it that yeah so the the guy that actually trains marv michael you this is a fullerton guy and so he was the the cycles yes this yeah that's the name yeah y e s s russian name he's awesome is like eighty five now or something and if you wanna get massively entertained by somebody the key is a good one yeah because he's just very opinionated but nonetheless yeah that is i think port and if you look at joel jamieson a friend of mine
who trains demetris johnson like all those guys they have very different approaches i don't i think the massive fallacy fallacies actually goes back to original question is thinking that there is one single answer that's the problem whether we're talking training nutrition recovery any is modalities the the major reason we have so much internet fighting between experts and why it makes it so difficult for so many people to figure out like what's the right answer is because for a right answers the problem to begin with were having the wrong conversation with all of this crap it's not the right place to go so the those are two very different approaches a lot of the strength conditioning they do during camp because they want to very good with the train with the fighting so all that stuff it's gone so joel believes in training as much as we can prior to camp and then in camp it's time to get better at fighting someone like nick is apparently has the opposite approach yeah i don't that either one of them is more or less effective than the other it really comes
and the combination of coaches as well as the athlete so some athletes and uh attest to this and i've seen this a bunch of times and if they're times sound three days out a week out some of them get the anxious if they don't get to practice this skill like i want to be really sharp with my combinations i want to be really good with my transitions etc and if you take that away from him they get very uh just i don't like it so almost have to do is program it based on this combination of physiology and psychology get outside of my realm but this is what makes coaching so complicated is saying okay well you know what for you one you're going to do the opposite approach athlete to we're going to be doing the other approach because you do it feels good you know is confident you're not filling the smooth and and more than anything when they walked down to that cage or particularly two or three days before they have to feel amazing yeah you have to have the
mission yeah it is weird that like you there is no answer now you know like there's one alike on mark hunt is going to have a completely different set of requirements then you know derrick lewis or a mighty mouse johnson or anybody it's like everybody's got different needs and and everybody's to the table with a different set of skills in a different set of problems especially when you look at experience too so what worked for you in your second fight when you were twenty is maybe not the same approach you to take when you're thirty i just got back from new york i was in the last three days and i was with one of my guys as for me this we had this conversation when i first started working with him we had to take a very different approach the week of and especially even you know the hour before the fight 'cause the way that he got ramped up for a fight is very different than some other people that i've worked with to realize i remember he called me right after one of his recent fights maybe four hundred and fifty five
and he's like i'm freaking out because i didn't freak out in the cage this time was like what he's like you know i'm usually like really freaked out the cage and this is what drives my performance but this time i was really calm and collected i saw everything i'm i'm nervous that i'm not nervous and so i had to get him and with my good friend we're somoza sport psychologists who sports a lot of combat more at ease and say ok we need to get you in a place of optimal arousal 'cause if you're under arousal but if you're over rows it's a problem as well so we had to change the tactics of a bit between everything from his walk down to the week of before the queuing that things that we say to him to make sure he's in and uh normal state yeah that'd work like all those approaches are completely different we can't have the same thing how do you train a guide to do is walk down all this there's a lot we can do really oh yeah and i'm not sports psychologist so go to my you know what they do absolutely everything from breathing drills right to the queuing the words you use so for
sample in the back if if your dennis bermudez five years ago ryan parsons would have to say like real vial horrible shit like rip his fucking head off only to bring it back in a plate like murder him rip him to shreds that works for some guys for dennis at that point at that point not anymore right now it's a little bit different approach and ryan could tell you the details of what he does now but some guys that he told some other people that backstage we're going to like what like don't don't hey that's just like right tell me what the focus on remind me mike using my timing and so the guys that are too ramped up pacific breathing drills for example we can have them do as they're walking down the cage as they are in the cage especially if the first one down to the second one down so there first sometimes that's a ten minutes between when they're standing in the cage and when they actually start throwing if not taking advantage of that time or if that time is getting taken advantage of you not going to real with your energy especially if you get a guy who's really savvy like a con
or a john jones who takes their time coming down and they mess with you they do different things on the way down that really influences what's going on with the guy in the cage especially if they're less experi in store maybe attach the underdog or other things like that so that can all be messed with now garland as for me this is a good example are you what you're working with him he's obviously a world class fighter but he always seems to fall just short on these big fight yeah there is you know this this is where it's outside of my expertise muscle physiologist not a psychologist right but with his last performance silly against darren elkins yahoo is a really tough guy very awkward really just blood and guts type charter but that was a good match it for very good fight good match up skill wise it should on paper suddenly good match it should have favored dennis in a lot of ways where there's no way to beat around that i feel like two things are happening that fight one i feel like darren elkins is getting better for sure anyway
super motivated and energized by is it's over merseyside back deck which is an amazing comeback from a credible crazy yeah so but a lot of people felt like he was the favorite that dennis is the favorite going into that fight i on paper it clearly he was from a lot of vantage points but really difficult without telling too much a dentist story for him it's quite funny what happens with the game plan sometimes and what happens when they get in there even with the season guy like dennis and i don't know if a part of that was because it was in new york and dennis is hometown or if that was because of pat who is good friend right before and want to really crazy fight in the fight before if you saw that you just don't so it goes in and then you know sometimes like in the middle of a fight you're like the fights over here why we did that i could just we got in this weird rhythm thing and we started doing this and that was know what and happened
the rhythm can kind of take over the fight and darren fought an amazing fight he did exactly what he needed to do but the it was just the from my perspective as a scientist when i try to stay away from those things is not my job but it's fun what exciting for me is why work with these folks is because you can have the have the perfect camp physically and sometimes you win sometimes you lose and so then you go back to the drawing board you go do we throw everything out do we try something different what was it those it's psychological is it physical that's the thing that he was physically fantastic what was the physical game plan like you planned on you must have planned on knowing how darren fights a super high paced in your face type of fight that that part is not a problem for dennis he doesn't really get tired and the vast majority is fights look a little bit like getting tired in this fight again he can say that but from the feedback and from what we saw like he was like no he just maybe had a heart
focusing on and tab and ask them very specifically what was going on there kind of give them a few what weeks to kind of get that stuff and we start going back alright let's watch a tape let's go through it like running went through so i want to be careful not sending him or or his direct conscious like that but yeah i mean from my vantage it was like this was not this is not what we were looking for he should just been more active in the second round which is what really got him he's on the third round once you kind of got into a dentist dennis in our eyes list pretty donnie that round or was the least clearly had yeah where one and two were now not so good for him but yeah i just potentially a focus potentially a lot of things he wasn't no thinking physically that happened him in the fight that he was he like no we didn't prepare for this we think is going to happen uh this is throwing me off he was just like i just i just didn't go and
around so it's a weird job you have because you're kind of relying on someone else to pull the trigger and you're relying on someone else that'd make the moves and you could train them all you want you can get him in incredible shape but then you know ready go there on auto pilot there they're doing their own thing especially me because i'm not the guy who's in practice all day everyday with them right like i'm not that nickerson i'm not seen them twelve hours a week right i'm out there i'm just like dennis i want to see all camp sometimes 'cause he's in new york and i'm in in la and so it's like so what do you do you give him a protocol do you give my schedule so my role depending on which fighter i'm with is completely different so sometime this one phone call the beginning of camp sometimes it's just like hey this came up when you think we should do how do we go about this sometimes it's a text three times a day everyday for the whole camp sometimes his phone calls like i try to do this is not my full time job my full time job is to research muscle physiology i work with anime
matters in combat sport athletes is because i love it really so it's a challenge almost like a side job aside hobby yeah yeah if you want to give it that way because you know my full time living i've got multiple labs to run like this is what i do is publish research i take biopsies of people isolate one hundred and ten the thousands of muscle fibers at this point my life and out when i can help if i think i can i will but i try not to i don't work with general public what do the type of muscle research we do are focused on disease prevention or treatment how do we fight cancer how do we get people back i'm one of the few actually do this on the other spectrum which is well let's study optimization drive how do we not just get to eighty years old but how do we kick ass at eight years old background that i have my athletic background so much sense i didn't come from martial arts background at all like i didn't do anything until much later in life
but i once i started paying attention ma i was like there something energetically physiologically far different about the demands of this sport and it's really exciting and it's a really complex problem to solve hang out shipping in and then once you get help a couple of people in there like this is fantastic etc kind of the ball gets rolling so right now basically what i do is like concierge service if you if like i don't i'm not like you can email me for training program like i don't have an online website you can buy stuff from right now i'm here like if somebody that katie i know a friend who could really need this or something maybe so you could go for da tired as well do you go through everything with them depending what they need and and how do you like how do you decide like what a person needs like a save if you know darren elkins came to you you might be very different and john jones like yeah how do you how do you decide what a person needs so it's depends on if their local or not blood work is the easy one but the vast majority of what i do is a lot of conversation so i spend
a lot of time on the phone calls and skype and then saying basically walk me through what have you done where you out how do you think i can help the number one thing i do then say okay do you have who else on your team does this who's helping you let's get into for them not so i can tell them what to do but just let me know what your world is like and then i'll see if i can add some advice maybe will try this i can help you track them so i can tell you with my experience about i've seen this and before or i know someone that's happened before this is what happened with the best example was you remember last summer at the rio olympics when that helen maroulis won the gold medal the first american ever female to win gold in wrestling no i was paying attention all to each of the go read the art open sports illustrated that she wrote afterwards she beat i think your shitter was her name but she was a three time defending gold medalist anna fifteen times straight world title it was just like room on gardner when he beat karel and but the female version so helen went down there it was crazy
down to the one with like thirty seconds to go in the semi finals came back and won she was down a point to you she in the finals ends up ends up up setting her first american everyone gold well i worked talent for about a year on straight nutrition because she had to cut a whole bunch of extra weight for the first time the whole wrestling community was like you'll never get down to fifty three kilos like don't do it you have to go up because what happened was something is really weird thing where world championships is a different classes then the olympics so she was a world champion at fifty five kilos and either had to go up to fifty eight kilos for the olympics which had a three time defending gold medalist in a fifteen times for a world champion or go down to fifty to fifty three kilos to russell somebody who also had that fifteen times sirte world titles pounds wise it's like flaps like six pounds roughly which is not a big deal but when you're already like scraping to get there and so she i had to make the decision to go up or go down
well she had a nutritionist eric rebel who you may know eric he works at barnett he's been around josh big huge dude pressler but eric was for nutritionist in eric reach out to me 'cause he's right down we're not nor hell is down here i know what i'm doing obviously but like let's get as big a team as possible that make the right decisions as possible so that's how i like to us so when a new person reaches out to me i go like what you have on board don't fire them i don't want anybody get fired let's all put our heads together because with mma specifically they're not making any and olympic wrestlers in the same thing she makes like fifteen grand a year or something she's poor so it's what you have to understand when you're coaching them i think it's not team doctor anti like its team helen and all of us have to be focused on her and it doesn't matter if anyone knows what i do with her or not or anybody i don't care if you get the credit and other nutrition is good credit if you want to actually help these professional athletes you have to let your ego go completely out the door and say why throw
people out let's take every information i have about everything you've ever done and come to those solutions and if so he also has an idea that you don't like that's up to you to figure out and give it to the outlet ok so would you find out with her like what was the issue and how did you get her to lose the extra i was like a year of issues of yeah me like every day every week every month something else came up so it was like tackle this problem and then we had another problem iron was a huge one for her iron as in deficiency and we she was basically almost flat lined on her iron like anemic and we had to come in and go ok well we're going to add this but she was also traveling to mongolia she was going internationally so she kept getting sick mongolia for tournaments 'cause she had to qualify the spot and she's cutting she's not imagine wrestling a mongolian shake is terrifying when your world champions not that terrifying dirt hardcore though yeah they scare the shit out of maine she we had to put her on we had basically
the game of saying if we give you the things that keep you from not being sick that's also the stuff that actually harms iron absorption cheap you the things like vitamin c for lemon seed to keep you from getting sick right so that can help you are talking about while she's dehydrating is that we're saying anytime so if you're going to travel internationally for long time you can take a big bowl of vitamin c and it may help you from getting sick from getting cold does that really affected better than probiotics to help because we were on that too but the point was if go on like a two week thing to eastern europe i'm going to give you every advantage possible to not probably get a cold right but when can you do that on a regular basis like why would you accentuate the diet on traveling trip and give it some stuff that mean would you want that loose everywhere so the probiotics are basically no brainer all the time but i mean even though i don't see and everything else yeah we have to be careful because anytime you go with the vitamin specifically you're gonna have potential toxicity vitamin c absolutely really yeah what what what's the
toxicity rate of vitamin c like it's not actually well put it this way at anytime you're getting a vitamin from a food source your probably nowhere near toxicity level so natural consumption of food you're not going to be in a problem but you start taking three fifty six grams of vitamin c at a time you're potentially going to have problems and a whole host and what makes it really complicated is there's interac and with other vitamins and minerals so the iron for example if you give them with vitamin c is going to help absorption but zinc is going to do the opposite if you do these other combinations you're going to potential problems or potentially safe and so we see the opposite what does that mean you mean zinc doesn't help vitamin c absorption or doesn't help iron absorption iron so link actually messes up your iron absorption anytime you have an end of it vitamin or mineral you have potential either call absorption or you have a complexion so you gonna you know cut things off how does zinc conflict with iron i don't know the chemistry behind it that's weird yeah the you have
a lot of that i mean you look up basically vitamin a vitamin d vitamin k magnesium vitamin k bone absorption so you have to make sure that let's say if you're eating one at breakfast yet another one at launch is that if you get it from food you're basically safe right like we don't really this is stuff we don't worry about even if you supplement like during your lunch or during your breakfast this is the general answer is don't supplement with vitamins and minerals unless you have a very specific reason and we did that for the vast majority camp but she was continually getting sick because a variety of reasons some that i the ocean say button so we're like okay fine we we address that and then i was like okay now you're super mnemic so let's get away from that but we did and back to a decent level as soon as possible and then go off of everything and go right back to food how are you feeling and that one she was so low on uh as soon as we got her a decent level within days it was just like tears of joy it's like i feel so much better i'm not lethargic and not sleeping all the time but it was continually the hard part with her
it's getting her down and then you would be shocked but the food was like in rio yeah at the olympics oh my god like that well then you have a b c d and we get down there and she called me the first day and she's like that they have nothing we've got mcdonald's we've got popcorn cookies like there's nothing down here while she's like five olympic all horrible i mean the basketball players probably had something but i think she's a wrestler she didn't have anything so they they had better food for the more prominent sports probably probably 'cause they probably bought their own chefs yeah oh ok she's down with the team and then she had to be shipped out of rio to some other city two hours away or an hour away or something and she's like there's no grocery store here i can't even walk to the store to get any anything decent so we had real problem she was about to the opening ceremonies you know for food like basically we're going our by hour how do you feel like where we at these types of things and she wanted
opening ceremonies and she called me she's like i want to go from ceremonies like fine cool no problem is what i want to eat and whatever it was with the next she's like i'm right next to michael phelps i'm in the front i don't want to get out of line i don't go back out and me 'cause i wanna lose my spot next to phillips in the front i'm like ok fine e whatever fetched boland and food and fat source we had i don't remember but she's like all they have is cookies and popcorn like i guess we'll just like star and we actually that was one time we didn't we didn't want to do that because she was at a problem where she was so calorically underserved so long her body would crash quite often so we had to keep nutrients really really really high or the minerals to keep her in a low calorie count but her body not freaking out he was like what do i do not eat and we had to actually go to the popcorn because the good fat and there at the butter that i had to keep her from not feeling terrible
surprise to go to for popcorn for nutrition at the olympic and she was there for like six hours they were supposed to be there for like an hour and go into it was a shit show that's a mouse now what about other athletes forget about this specific requirements or someone has to lose a ton of weight now when you deal with most athletes like what what what kind of like strength conditioning protocols do you have the mom what kind of recovery protocols like are using cryotherapy or sauna like what kind of stuff are using so all that is again i think it's uh problem is thinking that there is one answer there i don't have any athletes that i'm like this is what we do hey this is our method this is i think a generally a terrible approach it this combination of where that where they with what are they done what's their past history what do they like or not like what do we really need to get so i try to identify what's compromising their performance and let's pick the best solution for that issue so you show up in your like your problem is agility your footwork you're just too slow on your feet or going to have a different app
should training then when someone says you're getting out straight you're going to strength here like someone pushing around too much i don't need to rebuild in feet i don't need to improve your maximal speed because you're already there this is the division maybe your strength is your issue so do you do a bunch of tests on them when they come to you and then you try to like what kind of test do you do so i have an entire center for sport performance we've got six or eight laboratories in it with a whole host of equipment and another thing we put the mask on him make him run failed to max if we need to do so we can actually measure the amount of oxygen and carbon dioxide coming in and out of the body which allows just to get a number called the v two max which is the maximum amount of auction that you bring in and exhale so it's this is basically your maximal cardiovascular capacity and it's pseudo important for mma so the average person is like at four thousand and forty five just to give you some context that number if you continue to go up it's not going to you fight me better so that's one of things we did
we found doing all the research on anime folks is kind of diminishing returns somewhere around sixteen so if you show and you're a ellenberger and you're at fifty two and i can get you to fifty eight they're not gonna help your performance a lot but when you show up in your pack commons and you're sixty six when i get to sixty nine that's not going to fight any better that's not your problem what makes you lose in a fight is other things that you need to spend that precious training time on so when you get a guy or girl and you have 'em your studio and you start work like what's like the first thing you do with them so it would honestly the first thing would be well what did the manager or why do they reach out to me you could you when they come to me it's problem fixing they don't come to me when they have one seven foot center feel fantastic right usually it's this is going on i'm losing because of this reason that's going to be frustrating though because when someone is losing the problem is like a slippery slope it's hard to catch yourself oh yeah yeah well it's it's the game two of like sometimes
just want another answer which is not like you just not good enough ruffin i'm not telling them outright right but i'm not okay so we'll all watch the fights of just talk to their team this is so i'll give you a specific example so they come to me and go hey like i don't think we're fast enough on the feet this is a problem ok well we've got four plates that are really really sensitive measurement equipment built into the ground and we can have do a variety of of jumping test moving test lifting test force plates how does it work so it's a really expensive scale basically built into the ground how much is it there is big as your laptop or as big as the table so it's fair too small as big as the whole table yeah they can't not ours but we have and this may be the size of i don't know small coffee table yeah and then there's two of am back okay so we can do your right foot on one your left foot on that one so we can test everything from not only your force which is like
if i measured your maximum deadlift strong your back is your hamstring glutes but how do you produce that forces the big key so a good example is years ago we some fighters come in and one of them was clearly not fast enough but he wouldn't believe it so he was strong it took him a long time to produce that force we give you a number let's say you could you could produce one hundred newtons of force just making the number up and i produce one hundred newtons of force but if it took you one second to get there make me one hundred seconds or half a second to get there in an mma fight i don't have one second so you don't have a hundred newtons of usable force in your sport sing you just said he didn't believe it so he didn't think he was slow he thought the problems were other things what do you think the problem who knows coaching like i'm not getting right things to you know they have
walkout song wrong so you told him you're slow dude that was my thing i don't think so his coaching staff was like we think this is a problem well let's put him on the floor and let's see not only how much force you produce because district numbers were high squatter line does that a lot but the time it took him to produce that force what's called the rate of force development his peak velocity the time it took to get to the velocity all that when i compare get him to the other athletes in nfl players and stuff was just like off the charts bad so exercise do you do to measure that so now that's a great example so we have two individual athletes they come in so say one is the opposite so one of 'em really really really good at producing fast quickly and the other one takes a long time we would put them on a drill where we say ok the goal of your training is to maximize how quickly you produce sports i don't care how heavy you get but this is a reactive strength thing this is a speed thing so
going to do maybe little bit better squats but you're going to explode going to transition out of the bottom you're going to bounce we use momentum to swing you're going to generate fast as possible not going to go to maximum strength to sit we would take the speed advantage away from him or her and say you need to be able to produce more strength without taking advantage of the speed and it basically comes down to using the muscle for force or the connective tissue for force that's really what we can tease out how much of speed and athletic performance is genetic and how much of it is what you've been doing and how much can you improve so that we actually just completed a really cool study on monozygous twins psychic twins means you the exact same dna so it's sperm implanted to implanted one egg the egg split and you became identical right so we found two twins that were the exact same dna but one of them had been doing like
the fonz and endurance stuff for thirty five years so we had this exact question that's crazy identical dna one variable different one huge variable though one is a super endurance athlete in the end and the other one is a lazy bitch or maybe studies a lot yeah something i think is a truck driver wow it's so weird that see that's unusual isn't it like they don't really unusual that usually kind of share similar interests if not if their difference there are differences mild yeah i kind of do this and you do a little bit more but so what are the differences in their body type so we tested them for everything cardiovascular the field to max strength all these same tests that we do with them fighters muscle biopsies fiber type how much fast how much slow twitch all the ones in between what we found was of course the endurance athlete had higher v two max
no brainer you run one hundred miles a week for thirty years and your brother doesn't do anything you're going to have better cardiovascular system blood pressure cluster all that crap better in that trained athletes but the strength did not favor the athlete the muscle call city didn't favor the athlete the total amount of muscle didn't fare the athlete the speed didn't favor the athlete really know and want to her crazy part is the fiber type the trained athlete was ninety percent slow twitch ten percent fast twitch the untrained was forty percent slow twitch about thirty percent fast which then about thirty percent of some of the hybrids in but does that make sense to you because the guy was just constantly running work now that's really weird that the muscle quality didn't favor the athlete i think what it
i mean what do you mean by muscle quality when you're saying that so yeah that's a good question you can take an ultrasound and you take an image of the muscle it looks at it like a combination of how much mention muscular fat there is with how much total may master is in the size in a bunch of different things so you get this rough idea of quality housing not favor guys exercising constantly well you have to be careful to only one subject to so we don't know but the one application could be that yes indeed running and cycling is great for you there's a clear health advantage that but if all you do for thirty years i have to save the muscle capacity no things that are that are actually going to predict mortality field to max strength is one of the most significant predictors of how long you live leg strength absolutely how we well sort of tom platz should live forever yeah right
guys it's quite nine hundred now obviously there's diminishing returns right he's got four hundred and i take you to four hundred and fifty not living a day longer right but think about it this way what's the one of the big reasons why you go free living by yourself to an assisted living home can't walk can't walk yeah i can't stand up and the biggest one that they're actually trying to look at now was foot speed if you trip your the phone you can put your foot on catcher psalm you have to have the foot speed to get yourself out there but the strength to stop yourself from falling that makes sense so balance and yeah well it's essentrics strength ability to block all those forces into the ground to catch your whole body mass from falling or the can be also your ability to manipulate your body like yoga absolutely to be able control yourself in awkward positions at everything they see is huge increases in general just physical activity when you're stronger so when you're really really strong in your seventy you're much more
to go to next extra yoga class i'll go take the dog for extra taco go grab the thing but if i'm super weak and getting off the toilet is a maximum effort squad i'm more likely to just keep in my chair just stay on the toilet right wow that's incredible that there was an inch reason muscle quality so that well that's also one very specific type of exercise right rinse work where it is like i was a body builder who knows so that's x to the point when you first i think the first question you asked when we started talking was you know what's the best type of workout where we or the new age stuff right well it goes back to i think everyone of us would agree if you want to be as healthy as possible you need to do a variety of training yeah it can't just be one modality so if you've only done yoga your whole life you're probably going to have strength problems were full speed problems if you
they run if you only lifted weights if you've only expose yourself to a few of these stimuli you're probably in a real problem what we've done recently actually is expanded that thinking brian mckenzie night have a book that we just came out a couple weeks ago on this whole idea called plugged where we need ban passed just lifting and running and think what other physiological exposures do we need that are important for longevity how well do we do when we're hungry how about cold how about thursday hot how well do we do yeah meaning performance wise meaning everything so like are you manipulating diet to make people perform better when they're cold like what are you doing every combination so if you
i want to be able to sustain and perform as well as we can throughout life we probably need to be able to handle a bunch of different challenges so you're talking about long jevity now not like necessarily athletic performance and willing to kill athletes we would use this under an umbrella but very very carefully so for example i would not recommend extensive fasting during the middle of a six week camp prior to ufc fight like this is not at all we're saying but this is something maybe we implement outside of camp so for example we have somebody who's very very carbohydrate dependent but i'm using fat as a fuel source maybe during that six week camp before you see fight i'm not messing with the tremendous and we're not going on a new diet five weeks before flight like that's not going to happen maybe you got hurt you gotta extended layoff now we start work on another part of your physiology so that next camp we've got more it's called metabolic flexibility so we have an ability to switch back and forth it for between fuel sources right so when you prepare and someone for a very specific
exactly here you're ramping up for september 12th boom this is we have a protocols get ready but then after the fights over the then you might be working on very specific balancing exercises or that kind of stuff exactly so i'm of the belief that during those last few weeks you need to be very specific to what going to do get on wait get focused get all these things but now if we because if we uh specify for too long we have this complex these five forces called optimization adaptation so generally when you're optimizing your not adapting and vice versa how's that work so for example yeah you brought up ice earlier so we do the stuff a lot we've done a lot of studies and published in this area we're just learning some of the physiology behind what's going on with ice and a lot of people ask me this like well you for ice or pro or against it
i don't so what we have to be in once at a camp well there's some this one guy who does who's who doesn't believe in ice me should pay to have them on our podcast like the anti ice guy is like saying you shouldn't use ice but i've looked at some of the med studies and some of the various things there's a lot of benefits to uh it's like i don't understand why anybody would be anti ice does it make sense at all to know it totally does and this is exactly where i'm going anti ice make sense to you or not you can can yeah well in what way 'cause there is there's good scientific evidence to show that there are consequences of the ice as well and for injury or post workout for well it depends on the workout context so we'll go to easy examples so it's not so vague and like theoretical post workout that you try to bigger and add more muscle mass you don't we do that right afterward bingo and why well your body is time to recover and the actual inflammation is supposed to be good for you exactly it's not good for
it is the signal to grow right so people have this really weird they like to personify your chemicals and physiology like it doesn't know what's not good or bad like inflammation isn't great or bad like it just is it's a chemical like it doesn't give a shit at all it doesn't know it's not conscious right so if we want to do and hop in an ice bath post a lifting session when you're trying to add muscle mass is going to fuck up your game probably yeah but you're supposed to wait like two hours right is not the number the more the better probably more probably four to six why not nasa that and i am ready i read something about to that two hours is good after a hard left we don't have any numbers that this optimal yet on a good take a lot of studies to figure out what to do is not good but three is better so how would you know rough we would have to titrated up we have to do is now it says one group gets two hours one group is three hours and then you have to like concentrate our effort like how much effort
i put in versus that they don't have to be in the same training program we have the biopsy them all pre impose take blood marks damn you got a lot of drop jobs to do and there's a lot of work so i'm so busy and there's creativity involved in it too because you have to kind of like manipulate things and figure stuff out and contemplate and well that's why i'm the director of the co director and i am run my own lab and i've got a fantastic post docs and students that are actually operators that execute but it seems like everything is constantly evolving and shifting and changing it's like self honestly spending more time being in the middle of saying like let's stop all the fighting between things and let's spend time saying what was good about this and what was bad about this now when it comes to ice what about an entry like what are some the twister rank or something like that do you do you believe in it and i sing it right away i have to defer i just got my area but to finish the example so post lifting session maybe not great but maybe if you wait six hours or do it the next day
i mean we're talking like i see we're talking about ice baths that we talk about are you talking about like crouching but we don't have a tremendous amount of crowd chamber research so i'll have to say well actually i should say this with everything like this is as we know it now right but i started the show with like well if i'm wrong in a year i'm going to say like actually all that was wrong yeah this is part of it so what i've read about cryo chambers is the big thing is the anti inflammatory markers in the blood or the reduction of inflammatory markers in the blood improvements in side achenes called shot proteins things along those lines that those would be beneficial but if if you're saying that we gotta be careful beneficial so benef so for some things but there are always going to come in a compromise is something else so maybe non beneficial for a powerlifter that may be beneficial for an endurance athlete does that make yes but i'm not going to make it worse or no
you have physiology which is what i do right and this is what science is we biopsy we took blood we measure one mark but that doesn't take into context anything else in their life right so for people if you get a lift in and you're like oh man my elbow always things up on me after i left and i but i the competition in eight weeks or a show in eight weeks this would be like a powerlifting competition or a bodybuilding comp and if you get in the ice that takes that pain away from whatever reason physiologically or anna glisic or anything and that allow to train more i see that that was bad for you or if you were like some my fighters like they feel more accomplished when they do they feel like they've done some work so they feel less anxiety because like they got in work well then now we were playing a game hero physiologist at comp lish when they got in the exercise or the ice bath in this example the ice path but it would be true of anything right so setting them up for a psychological win oh that's so you factor that in you have to like with human beings right but it might not even be real totally
but really is my but he was perceptive right right yeah i guess so for sure i mean confidence is is a giant factor absolutely with combat athletes and there's some preliminary evidence suggests perhaps an ice bath i think specifically post exercise include increased model condrey about genesis yeah so now you say like well it's bad or good post exercise well i'm a cool what's the goal of the training session now what you see increase by mitochondrial biogenesis is that within a certain time period post exercise or is that just period b l a v when they took the biopsy the blood marker right but i'm saying like within an hour after exercise with the dinosaurs yes yes so this one i believe was immediately post exercise and selling finishing it yeah ha wow so now you get a conundrum but this
physiology right it's crazy this is why it's so fucking irritated when people say like now this is the thing and then they pull up plant flags about like this is we do what we don't do it 'cause i see in the middle like you're going to be a terrible coach b you're going to be in a situation where you're going to need to violate those rules dutch it's complicated it is i mean this is why were totally wrong do you find that that's the case is diet as well look i am absolutely big proponent of variable diets and i think that there's a lot of bio di versity and well obviously there is where people are allergic to certain type foods but i just think this one size fits all approach to die it seems the more i study diet the more it seems crazy so i would ask you this what do you think about if i came to you and said i'm gonna do one workout style the rest my life everyone to be like that's that's stupid well if you want to be a yogi at says where to go all right
but most of us would say yeah no i also i just don't think it's fun but why do we so why is it acceptable to do that with nutrition that yeah why is that i have to be magic and this is what i do the rest of my life or i have to be paleo or have to be anything else whi in fact is you when you said variability i assume you mean having a wide variety of foods in your daily yeah i think also why variety of who's in your daily life but i also i think what works for you you might not work for jamie or might not work for maine yeah i think that's the bio variability but we're going to inception on that one because you ready we're going another level that is absolutely true and most people recognize that but what we don't appreciate is the fact that there's not one diet that works best for you right so it might be one diet that works best for me from powerlifting but it might be different if i'm running hills or it might be the exact same foot the bro
i mean what you're highlighting is a real you and it's also one of the reasons why there's a lot of what i would call confidence men out there and i don't use that in a good term okay i mean if yeah i mean in confidence men like con men there's a lot of people out there that still tell you like this is my diet this is the way to go you gotta follow my way and you know and they all always mock other dietze which is yeah how helpful is that not good now it doesn't help anything big issue in the mma community i see a lot of these guys popping up where they're trying to make a name for themselves it seemed super common that one wants to diminish the the the other of people out there doing different things and like this is our way and this is the only way is the right way and and that's a straight ego shot while also i think with the plane two is that fighters in particular want some now come along go andy i got the fucking solution ok you come to maine this is
joe's fucking house of power we're going to get this shit right we know what we're doing we got a team of experts do he's got a team the team yeah and then you get you go i'm i'm with the team yeah yeah yeah i stars i signed up joe's team and and you you really start believing like ok this is going to work but did you think you think physiology is that precious this not like that it is you can i mean in terms of like all it has to be lined up perfect and there's a one magical combination of every dollar no i don't think so but i think for some people clearly like some diets sure fit better like i had a bunch friends that went plant based and uh not met maybe not even a vegan but the majority of their food is plant based and they just feel better yeah their body just works better i in the vast majority of us would yeah and then i know but i know a lot of other people that went fat based they feel better to mean like a lot a lot of coconut oil avocado's stats
seems to me especially true with people that are in intense exercise and i don't know why that is but it seems like a lot of dudes that i know that lift a lot of weights or that are involved in jiu jitsu or wrestling or anything over there is a lot of explosion this is me like a lot of fats and a fish oils and things along those lines when they add those their diets fishel in particular seems to have a big effect on grapplers it seems to help them with joint issues and a lot of pain and maybe inflammation yeah i could i would say that most people are going to far better on a more traditional carbon and right diet that are in the more explosive power strength stuff especially at the volumes at mma fighters are on because of the amount of output they're doing less amount of the glucose req apartments of the muscles exactly and you have to be careful because this is exact same principle either you're adapting or you're optimizing
and if you're on my as in all the time then you're not adapting by vice versa so if you push yourself to one of the spectrum you're gonna probably comp the metabolic ability to go back the other side of the spectrum spectrum meaning what like when you're defining it in any okay but in this particular case i mean so say for example you get very good at metabolizing fat as fuel that may come of the consequences then of being able to use carbohydrate is a fuel so if you're in a sport that requires that that's potentially problematic what sport would require you to use carbohydrates versus ketones anything that's an aerobic so almost definition so anything that's maxima intensity difficulty is going to heavily carbohydrates man i wish i had got you in here with dom d'agostino oh we just had him on yeah and he's off at based i mean he's one hundred percent chido and he believes that ketogenic diets have a host of benefits and that the human body just a functions better
on them well so he's a good example i mean i don't know dom and i wouldn't standing by without him being right here it's not not fair but everything i've seen it has been fantastic like i item and very much supported the vast majority of what i've heard him say but he this main lenses is being focused on cancer prevention apple epsi these things but if you look at some of the research and i'm not an oncologist so i'm going to speak a bit outta turn here but there are now actually identification of several cancers that thrive on fats rather than carbohydrates really yeah i have not seen this 'cause he was talking about a host of different cancers but on i'm sure he's sugars and you stop them dead in their tracks by i'm sure he's fully right i'm sure he's totally right on that but i did read something about a type of brain cancer though that is not does not feed on sugar right so
it would be like well good for cancer what kind of cancer ryan i'll for prop maybe eighty percent of he's right maybe maybe in ninety percent i don't know the number it be environmentally cause cancer or who knows right but the vast majority of high intensity exercise is powered by carbohydrate for most of us know why would he be carbohydrates this is key to its more efficient and it's faster man see i wish i had you in here with him but i think he would disagree with you well there's not really i i gotta be careful this is faster and it works better like well you have carbon directly in the muscle cell muscle glycogen okay and so it is an immediate fuel source so when you're having ketones work done those races i think those are coming from the entire circulation use carbohydrates for fuel you're using the carbohydrate in the muscle that is exercising if you're doing bicep curls you're burning glycogen from the bicep fiber not even the muscle but the individual fiber that's contracting and how would that be more beneficial than systemic so it's faster i'm right there can
anything i don't have to move it throughout my bloodstream when i use fat as a fuel source it has to be has to be go through life policies which means it's a it's stored fat in your body so people now listen this podcast your i don't know who the to believe it's not a big to do it on monday says one thing you got to do it on wednesday which is another thing yes yeah so that's a i guess that's what i i'd say my biggest messages is not like a right or wrong thing that's the wrong question entirely issues right or wrong do you have any athletes who are on a fat based on early who totally not public those ones i should said that there was medicine i got it now they're just like hey don't talk on my diet stuff really this is yes some do okay and that's what you're doing allen did i heard about talent we we go through that with her for sure for a lot of reasons the it's very successful with her kids of that but not when she's competing even during training but not much she's competed yeah not like on competition day now but sometimes the week so of
different day no because you feel like the glucose based diets are more efficient for in terms of actual physical performance well most specifically for rehydration purposes is to because she's dehydrating heavily and if you don't consume carbohydrates in the rehydration process you have a real problem ok that makes a lot of sense so we don't go there but will do it even maybe like five days out or the picking up or something but where we have to be careful there and again this is no i'm not bad mouthing dom at all no nothing but he i'm not dealing with somebody who is generally hypo chloric through an athlete who six weeks of coming down in calories and if we start cutting out carbohydrates we actually did just that he was saying that when you're talking about ketogenic states in particular when you're talking about most p full during a regular life fifty grams carburetor carbohydrates would keep you in kid genic state but when you're talking about like some
you know pro athletes power lives in the hundreds one hundred two hundred and fifty and you're still kita genic because your body is much more required so like i told you he's smart got like i'm generally i'm bored what he's saying is a scientist just like you but and the problem is micronutrient quality so if an app it's coming down in calories that and especially those calories are coming from carbohydrate carbohydrates or their main source of carbohydrates are plants so if we've compromise that and the really long calories then they go down the nutrients chemicals and that's a real problem so we have to be very careful with getting them into keto if it comes of the nutrition right without like cold press juices or anything that's exactly what we do actually a lot of the times we did that specific in fact that almost single handedly saved rio for it was a no problem she had a real physiological crash like just sucks to think that the highest level of amateur competition they have poor food yeah well we had
we had to do like 'cause specially 'cause she was basically broke we had to go out real struggle define the cold press things we could get to her 'cause we had she was only forty ounce the day that for awhile and it's new it's funny we did that and that's i don't know you could do the math but two hundred grams of carbs or something and the second we did that per weight just started falling really oh interesting so we added to into grams of carbs and poem wait just flew and would attribute that to combination of physiological and psychological factors psychological she felt better so it caused wait to drop yeah she was stressed out she was freaked out the quarters level capture way higher absolutely interesting so she was panicked and she was freaked out and she was stressed 'cause she didn't feel good and she's like i'm not losing any weight and once part of it was we gave her a system that she believed in aka and so she michael okay we can do the oh now i also physiological pump some nutrients into you so i don't
like honestly i don't know what part of it was it could have been all psychological kitten visualizer i don't know but we know is it worked and we gave her a bunch nutrients were like forty ounces a day or up to sixty ounces a day of of fresh pressed vegetable juice and just like clockwork every day you know this this is such a complicated subject and it's so nuanced and there's so many different variables that you have to be a scientist to really truly understand this i mean the sl it's one of the problems with the bro science people the people that do not have the real education in this stuff that are out there you know coaching athletes and teach them what to do and what not to do it's like you don't really know what you're talking about and that becomes a real problem you have to get like it's funny because went down like so but he's example i've never heard him plant a flag and beyond movable movable an idea and it's fun because those of us that do this for a living yeah rarely do we do that right it's the other dicks that do it i think you
it's like everyone else is like what do you mean i get this one on fiber type more than anything in the planet fiber type that's what i do for a living right like i could tell you more about but the vast almost anyone of them and then yet i'll still have people who like i read this guys instagram post you're wrong hundreds of people of isolated ten thousands of fibers and random wonderlic lasers and study them and you gonna tell me because you read one instagram post one review from two is what put the four people all love doing that though i mean nuts and they love it because of that reason i know a love to call bullshit on you not a response of that but it still gets yeah now they know yeah good luck well i know because i bomb them with you two videos showing i'm walking on through the science and it's like our yeah but they don't read or watch the the like blah blah blah to your arm instagram post i had somebody on south then a few weeks ago some instagram or something was like going through she's we see the spectral so i don't mind like helping but i was
ok we're done here because i already told you about my three hour video on this and you didn't watch it right fuck off bingo but you know this is reality videos are hard man i don't care either way three hour video is a god damn gift from god because if you stop and think how much schooling you would have to go through to get the information and this in that three hour video it would take a decade and it took my career boil it down to three hours and people like man not interested well what i would do it instagram paid exactly guides and should the said you're on your own well i did a four five minute videos why my first one is like a five minute video and i just kept getting so much like bob i hope you didn't do this and i'm like you think i really think i missed that you think i didn't read that one i was like fuck this like here we go here's the whole russia bombing an area go there's the link that's it i'm done and threw it out there and i still get
they don't change they don't change when you train like oh my god here we go again now so someone has like a lot of fast twitch muscle fiber like let's see like mike tyson in his prime as an example is like a ball of fast twitch could you you turn a guy like mike tyson into like an ultra marathon number no i mean he could maybe complete one for sure but he couldn't really okay so genetically he's a lead at fighting this explosive individual but making him like you know filling the blank david goggins type character now i mean you have so the easiest way tennis is plasticity your ability to change your adaptability is far higher than what people understand and in fact there's almost a direct link between the increase in technology and the increase in our thoughts of why change and how much they change so ability to measure it bingo
so the reason why we didn't think fiber type change twenty years ago is because we didn't have the technology to actually have the fidelity to measure all the ones that we were missing and it is also a the psychological factor in there as well as from the people that are measuring it's probably easier to say that doesn't change them to say that it does i don't know that it was just more of like that was we have it in stock com yeah right so it's confirmation bias the first ten study said not showing it so therefore you're not looking for it really hard ok move on otherwise would be chasing your own tail forever on that well i can tell you right now it's hard to post to get things into into publication when they complete the challenge an entire the entire thought what do you make sample so for example if if you were the for just want to try to publish a study that fiber types changed's response exercise training and twenty years of research suggesting otherwise you have a very hard time getting through review they would hammer you for every little thing that like why did you do this and do this and it's going to be very
the ball and ran yes that that's how it should be that's how should be right extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence right yeah so i have no beef with that is what the problem is when the other people who aren't scientists and don't pay attention like if you don't know it like i do then you need him like you can talk about that's fine i talk about stuff i'm not an expert about all the time but you be careful when someone else walks in the room and goes like why do this for a living you know just concede the point but you need to be a little more open with listening and gone oh really bright didn't know that yeah that's that that that's interesting can you think of anything that has changed other than the of fiber types that's change the way people look at things recently because of technology yeah i'm that's a good example of the hyperplasia is probably the biggest one and what is that so when your muscle gets bigger you the die each individual muscle fiber gets larger so it just well write
the place is a concept that you actually add more muscle fibers total so you add cells to the entire muscle and for decades basically you say that doesn't actually exist in humans proving our fidelity of our measurement techniques it looks like it happens a lot we know what happens in other mammals how would he comes in humans when it does it's going to be very difficult and probably impossible to ever show but we have more evidence because we know the mechanisms now behind the cell growth so we see the physiology the mechanics behind it and the molecules and the gene expression and then we say it lines up with abcde we just can't show with f because of technology now we need to really rethink our position here that's probably the biggest one now when you're dealing with athletes and especially athletes that are trying to make weight like like a fighter and
do you ever tell them like say like a jake ellenberger was a pretty thick guy gets done one hundred and seventy pounds and you gotta exercise reading and doing all these things you do a body composition of them do we tell them like you got to lose some muscle like there's do you ever say that like you two hundred and five sounds getting down to one hundred and seventy is really going to kind of fuck you up we a little bit the past people have come and said hey you test me and tell me if you think i can go down to fifty five or yeah i'm an eighty five or something my general approach is the you're better off staying or going up it's almost almost always better if there's going to go stay at weight class or go up awake i could not agree more and you've seen the performances of fighters when they do go up they look so much better hor hey mazda dolls are perfect after five hundred and fifty five forever four thousand one hundred and seventy one the best in the world now donna cerrone another good example there's been a ton of fighters that move up and looks so much better because their body kelvin gastelum he's another great example yeah he's
that one though for the most part like he's he gets that dialed he should be able to make seventy no problem but but god let's get eighty five looks good when you see it the tank he's awesome but when you see it like him and you know you gotta out powered by a guy like chris weidman what the line in the sand you draw we say ok calvin let's put on some muscle and sub strength so you could deal with the oil romero's of the world or let's lean you out and get you off the tacos so you can you could fight guys that you're supposed to be fighting right yeah that's it man like that's it internally question that if they if they really buy into what i say it's another conversation but a lot of them won't which is fine like so i don't think you good answer there man like it's tough he said example like there's is almost i don't know his camp like i've met him a handful times handful we've never been never my lab i don't know like how bad his stuff is how like if he's got maybe medical
that no one knows about or other issues that are going on to make it hard so that happens from time to time so i want to eat ice cream there's a lot of guys that are super talented is love to eat you know man it's crazy like a lot of those folks will go to food for their i'm for it for that and for the control like that of a control yeah that makes sense especially in such a query world of the world of competition in combat sports espeche in this sport where like winning and losses so finite and when you get to the top like nobody rarely people win more than they lose right like it so hard so hard and there's so many with you know like an nfl on julie baseball soccer there's a clear pecking order you beat this person then you beat this team then you beat this team then you get to play for the championship or an anime it's not like that well it's definitely not anymore you know ufc it's really weird like especially the one hundred and eighty five pound division like good fucking luck now everybody is waiting in line to fight michael bisping he's probably going to fight
port saint pierre and people like luke rockholds all these other guys like what the fuck when he repeat rockhold that's my single favorite mmm moment history really i'm not like a obnoxious bisping fan or anything but that was a culmination of a dude who put in so much time and he did everything to make it a business he and everything and then he not only steps in and fights i just pick a killer and rockhold well i thought it was been underrated his whole career that keys is insanely good but he already he already lost one convincingly like batman subs in the first round an older guys don't come back and beat younger guys in rematches ever write special short known on short notice when he had a whole camp and has every reason to not have confidence in like now eighty percent or more fighters would have been like normal like no way he takes a flight like no one would fi because if you lose twice the champion you're done right you're going to third every risk possible and he just nails like this unblock lips
max amount amazing like i loved rockhold book that was this incredible it really was crazy and you could really tell that rockhold just thought is going to win to fight no matter what right does a done deal totally uh or estimated m bisping scrappy like he's one of the most mentally tough guys in the sport because he doesn't have like some issue our merril athleticism or anything he just hard work he's not particularly fast he's not like he's not super mobile he's very skilled and he's got lot of physical issues to came and see how to one i you know is that about
have issues with like joints and discuss and he doesn't move well insurance now and he's not a big for the division or the things of the howling people always worry big twenty five well not like amazing is not like towering over white men or rock called like no he's not be those guys are giants yeah those guys johnny doesn't have some amazing skills that either way you can fall back on a world championship in wrestling to graduate like he just as like pretty good everything yep now still this finds a tough kid he's a guy would love the biopsy and figure out like how much lotus and faster to we have thirty four beats per minute resting heart rate is fit yeah he's a big factor it's a big fat and then he could push a tremendous pace and then keep it going like one of my favorite fights michaels was because only owe you 'cause he's overwhelmed them and just you see kong starting get tired and bisping just poured it on just even a beating and that was sort of in a lot of ways like a shift towards i mean there's always a world class fighter those a shift or
like the upper end of the division it's a big moment first career two 'cause if he lost that that's probably about night night for him in terms of yeah you could say that but he doesn't give a fuck all you know he had knocked out by victor comes right back got knocked out by henderson comes right back he's one of the guys i've been around him a bit he's hilarious but he's one the guys were again like he doesn't he i'm not going to take him like that no not at all he's undeniably tough and undeniably like when he says like all fight that dude he legit yeah he's there like all he scared romaero now is not like still scared any of these do know he's trying to cash in when he should like well i think the bisping gsp it is a fascinating fight it's fascinating first of gsp is never far eighty five comes back he fights for world title it makes it compelling i'd it's wonder if this is unfortunate but i wonder how many of these young new fans i would like to say like pose rhonda rowsey fans how many of them you know who fuck gsp is
yeah it is a lot in my wife definitely does well she's yeah but i mean i wonder of how many of the new ones you know the people coming up actually know who he is and means for a long time a couple years right more than that and when did he lose to johnny hendricks i want to say is three years ago at least at least yeah well beat johnny hendricks yeah i'm not i'm not a big believer in that decision i feel like at most that was a draw i felt like hendrix got the most of my buddy troy his brother had dk on hendricks on that fight during and afterwards he's like here we go we're done hendricks thing was interesting because hendricks this is one of those guys that like you go like what happened to that guy you know like what there's a lot of speculation on that where you can all read between the lines there well that's that's the problem right
there's the usada speculation is the motivation speculation there's a lot of speculation you also have that thing too with guys like that that put in that many years of wrestling and you competing that hard that young like people believe is a nine year window as a world class fighter i've heard that before it depends on the sport but yeah that's probably fair as a fighter and that as a fighter can can get to mma in particular guys have like nine years to compete a world class level and then the wheels just fall off yeah get your money get out yeah if you can if you can yeah that's why it is thirty eight i think this brings thirty eight dead yes before it's the right move oh for one hundred right move anyway what is bisping typically do well with like the fighters he handles rustlers decently well he's a very good defensive wrestler his style is going to be fantastic doesn't get tired which is what tsv relied on a lot is conditioning was great but
that stamina like is dependent upon activity like do you even here just physically fit but you haven't fought in a long time i don't necessarily know if it's applicable yeah well it's also going to be different too with we'll see what he does weight wise yeah so what people do understand about when you watch professional athletes fighters apart clear is a lot of what happens in that fatigue is either psychological or it's bad weight cut stuff so now he doesn't have that but if he's lugging around extra weight right there's not used to potentially but depending on how he does it now he's got some smart people in this camp so he's probably going to be fine but that's a real problem that he may we not be ready for ya if he's lugging around extra weight but he was always walking around somewhere around one hundred and eighty five one ninety he might just decide to compete at that weight that's what i mean like if you say is there is probably fine but if someone gets in his head and tries to get him up to two hundred and two or something and then come back down like he's probably not going to feel normal there but she's not going to run out of gas because is that like having more muscle doesn't make you fatigue more it's the training that does
now do you have fighters use cardio machines like you have them use versa climbers or treadmills or anything in those lines i don't feel like those are super important differences in terms of generally trying to get most of physical activity from training like if you i have an extra hour worth of training we could get in the week you mean by martial arts training right really interesting so but having said that if we want to do a small circuit or something that incorporates one of those things in there sure but i'm never going to prescribe if they're not doing it like hey let's help let's get an hour on the elliptical like that's never going to come out of my mouth not to say i would never use it right now anything out on a program but that's chipped only not where i'm going to go because it's far easier for us to help them lose weight through food is adding on an extra hour and then adding on of extra hour of activity can be real harmful for the mosque early right but we're not necessarily just talking about losing weight were talking month increase increasing perform
let's do you do believe in any of those machines it's not believe it or not believe in i would go to it if needed it i don't feel like in camp it's a huge need with the option of maybe like a recovery and you want to do like hey let's go and easy forty five or something on the bike but as like a forty five hard with the exception of when you start moving the championship fights i do think there's good cause for doing he once a week of saying like we do this with dirk and all that i'm like hey most so go out in the mountain don't know but he that's because of it is because he loves that that's like his real mental release mountain budgeting yeah it's a great workout too fast it's he gets in the sun he gets away from people he gets to breathe and we're not counting things which can be a problem but if i had another app that was like i absolutely hate jogging like it's the worst thing here's my back i'm never going to ask them hey go joggin hour
but if you do like what if someone's knee problems and you want to get him to do cardio forty five minutes something like that maybe in the pool a lot of homework can be really helpful if they have access if they can't no one has ever not of the air diner air assault bikes like those are fantastic versa climbers are great and i got no problem with those thing what is one machine that you is like your standby or go to when it comes to like cardio machine well those would probably there are those are the rower diversity some of the rower in the air dyne yeah air assault any of those things anything that allow them to move minimizes the amount of technical teaching have to do so that's most people run horribly this is like a real real real problem especially wrestlers if you ever watch run so run it's like you need pain your busted ankle waiting to happen
i'm not gonna throw that on them and they try to teach him a new movement skill right this is not needed there's a thousand ways we can get there if they already run will never running background then we can go there if they want if they want some of them do like it okay fine we can get there but if they don't run well i mean technically well landing in if positions landing the fear out everywhere and fear don't want to time to go to running like brian mckenzie or something then we're not going to add a new skill they know a lot of greg jacksons work a lot of his camp they do these hill runs in albuquerque yeah going up a hill is a little different though yeah because jenn only the foot position of the hill is much easier to get to and it's hard to run bad uphill than it is on flat ground generally so it is something you go to that's also probably something where two so that by itself is going to reduce
how hard you work which is going to reduce the stress on your joints and bones and ligaments so that helps so all that can be integrated where you have you reduce the likelihood of them lower back or knees because you added some forty five minute running on there that didn't really have to happen well hills need to reduce that anyway because you really almost like doing squats it's almost like doing lunger simply facts you just kind of running and pushing your body up is yes instead of like the pounding the centric pounding is gone yeah this is a very good one of my it's important things we stress during flight campus you want to minimize the e centric contractions 'cause that lead more soreness if you got really sore legs and you got a gun we tie practice and somebody checking the leg like that that's a problem and so you have to be able to get working without getting extremely sore so hills are great exam well aerodyne is like the same thing right it's pushing the whole time it's not landing an impact swimming rowing all these view climber that's why there's so good or one of the reasons
you can do a lot of work is air dyne or reverse comma those things limited in the fact that like the movement is like very specific and that is in terms of doing that versus like maybe like a kettle bell card a work out yep you should that's why you need to do a combination okay so it's a bunch of different stuff just like we talked with attrition it's variability that gets this is what we're looking for especially when the goal is not that modality so for example if you're competing in a swinging competition like you should be focusing on that right but when you're using that for another modality that doesn't transfer over then you need to have a wide range of stresses how do you know like what to tell him to do though so that's the thing is i don't i don't think that stress is necessary like who cares what you mean so what the stress of worrying about which one to do is not important you shouldn't sunbeam like oster big first a climber today or should be at they should be what's the training outcome we're looking for right
oh we're trying to improve your ability to repeat maximal sustained fifteen sex intervals with short rest and all at the same time keeping your breathing mechanics okay that's the now what modality do we want to use today to introduce that insult and so you think the good move would be to to introduce a bunch of different things like one day yeah one day do the kettle bell cardio workout another day do the air assault is that air assault bike but across all airline paradise punch another they do a verse climber is a general quick statement yeah absolute but i would say that the smarter approach would be to step back and say well wait a minute what's the goal of that workout what's the goal of today this week this camp this fight that then that guides guide you to make that exercise choice so don't like you should know choose the exercise because you love the exercise that's a stupid reason you're getting angry yeah he no
do you measure a resting heart rates body fat all that jazz not really no no some folks do it's not super important for me you don't feel like it's important in terms of like finding out whether not a fighters overtrained that's a little bit different question so you use things like hrv to track those things let's that heart rate variability so it'll effectively think of it monitor but it's going to look at how so look at how your heart doesn't disco beat has b b b b b b actually has some relationship with your autonomic nervous system so if it's really variable you're in a good spot if you who's your variability and it becomes beat beat beat beat beat your actually potentially being overtrained so your your nervous system is a little bit shot there so you can use those in joel jamieson again it's not a ton of this work and you can look at
to have an ideas of what another there overtrained so you can use that don't particularly use those things for a couple of reasons number one we know what's going to happen for the most part over the six weeks like ass camps going on like it's based on performance the coach they out when i've been around them like we plan it so this is the volume this week this is the volume this week this is the volume this week so that we don't get ourselves situations and how do you know how to plan the volume out like say if you got a guy like you know fill in the blank chris weidman come into you and wants a wants to train with you he's getting preparing for five round championship fight how do you know how much work to give him like how do you how do you sketch all that so i would never have the eragon's to step in and go ok this is the volume you're at chris' i've never met she agreed to meet you but here's your volume right like that be stupid would you have him come and do it test workout for you i would have a conversation with him anyways coaches an honestly the first time i work with them for something like volume i generally would
shut up and watch here's what you're going to tell me you did so i on a piece of paper what you did for the camp what's your plan for the camp would be done in the past can we can assess some volume tell okay this is normal for a person caliber of your age and your experience or like your way over what's normal how that lands on you and then i watch and as we go along and it's conversations continue and go on this is happening your other show me this your time this is going on don't know for the right spot here and then the second or third camp around then i can have a feeling i can go back to the previous notes and go well this is ten percent higher this bar three more times here and then it always almost always matches up with building terrable etc etc what do you thought some like plyometrics fox jumps things along those lines blocks jumps are really misused so people don't know
especially in crossfit or an mma or wrestling people use crossfit for condition for the most part which is fine but they don't get the the biggest bang fill out of it which is strength speed powertrain the reactive part of the system training muscle spindles so absolutely fine as a modeling but they don't get that out like how do they know so for example someone does a box jump thing like ok box jumps i want to get better power in my legs so go and do like all right let's bar for five rounds and then so do you want a box jumps as fast as i can not getting any faster like that you just getting more tired that will not improve your power at all it won't know 'cause you're not jumping half assed actually jumping at a very sub max speed the whole time oh i see what you're saying so if you want to use those for power now if you're using it for conditioning fine no problem but if you're you
for the sake of improving your foot speed or your power or strength or your explosiveness you should be w rap well rested yes yes one hundred and twenty three reps take break etc what do you think like that strong first protocol do you know the pavel tattoo lean idea that you know he feels its strength is a song the same sort of lines what you talking bout strength is essentially a skill you should not be doing things to failure that the best way to do it in his estimation is to do more sets with more more break in between them that is that's like very strength one like you would have a hard time for a true strength person disad with a lot of that it's hard to get stronger when you're tired so going to failure is not as now i've talked to a bunch of people about this though started doing this recently like within the last year or two and they've all experienced great results and that the idea
being that you used to go to failure and then he'd be wrecked like three or four days instead that like say if you could do ten reps or something you do five and then you take a big rest and you do five and any took a big rest and then you wind up in so doing fifteen wraps right you do you wind up doing like thirty over the core so an hour and a half and then you find the next day well i mean louis on the simmons restless is classic maniac that guy is he was awesome i love that guy i always tell my kids my students to google him yeah i'm not gonna get like i could get bored out live one of my projects with him it's one was entertaining things i've ever heard in my life he was such a character the basic idea well it will have to back up for a quick because it depends on the goal strength if called pure strength is the goal failure also has to be defined so it what do you mean by failure now my family because of fatigue right then he's totally right right in my feeling though because the two heavy will you do want to go to that failure for strength and also though so you
need to at some point pick up something that you can't pick up or really close to camp pick up to get stronger really close to it you can do it right but you can't do a second one put it down or maybe you could do two but you can do three or something like that the very textbook answer is anything below five repetitions ish is going to be good for stress yeah so the matches anything more than five is body building that's what powell says that's that's pretty dead on i mean he's not the wrong there and would like what a reason of robert louis up is he's he's classic for saying first wraps so if you did three sets of ten right well you had three first deputy oceans right so you have three reps that you did after rest but if you did ten sets of three now you had ten for straps interesting
he did the same total repetitions but ten of them were done after a full rest which means you're going to have more power and more force that makes sense that it seemed smarter that's basically it so your bed what do in ten threes than three hundred and ten for strength first ring or power or speed and taking a big break in between them is sort of counter intuitive to a lot of people they feel like i i want to be a pussy and let myself get fully recovered i want to fish warm still outcome oboe come out broken going to failure one more one more and they'll help you up come on come on yeah i see that all the time meatheads in the gym and they think that's way to go and i'm like man i don't know and they get well they're going to it's the way to go if they want to get or if they want to maybe improve muscle mass they love to walk around sore you know it's funny this is like the number one reason i got into mma was that that question like right there people kept sing to me with this and you don't know basics be training or strength training and the image
guys are so wrong and then that's how i got into this for the most part is people are like oh my god this is changing like everything well training is it's weird was really strange because mma training is essentially it's still in its infancy right it really didn't even exist until one thousand nine hundred and ninety three and then it didn't even really exist even then until like i feel like frank shamrock was the first real professional mma fighter as he was the first guy to figure out that you have to be an insane cardio and he was the first guy to be able to strike and also be able to grab old and be able to fight off of his back and piece it altogether and if the cardio is was it was a huge factor you know he he was like the for like when he beat tito ortiz was way smaller than but he beat him because of cardio but one of the things that i used to see early on that was so confusing to me because i came from a striking background was how
these guys were willing to beat the fuck out of each other in the gym and like that they were just going to war but not even going to war with like good skills by going to war while they were learned for the sake of war yeah i mean i'm watching them getting coached in there beating the shit i'm like you guys are professionals this isn't like this isn't like some idiots at the y like you guys are you supposed to be pros you could a damage yourself the van does it take years off of your career the vast majority of me sing with athletes is doing these very very basic things like i'm not i'm honestly not the guru is like oh i know the the eighteen point blood tests are going to get these vestment what i do is go ok i see the problem here we need to do this basic thing you haven't eaten vegetable in a week got it get that as not as much anymore but i used to really a week
a lot of the pro athlete it doesn't even as to you know we get is honestly is because probably because like you and i watch your show or something if i tell people the vegetable long time no they watch this and then like ok now come with me with one thousand nutrition questions or something really weird advanced training ones 'cause i went to seminar or something and i'm like back to train up like your sparring six times a week we've got a whole another conversation like oh we don't do that now that's not normal really now okay are you doing that or you're running thirty five miles a week got it a kid that's the bassman what i do is bring this guys back to life and go like let me help you sift through all this internet stuff that's really complicated and let's take what's actually good and bad and dial in a very usable system just get overwhelmed with options from the internet absolutely because too many people
non exposure i get on shows or platforms and they try to make sure that they are known as the guy that knows something different right right right well it's like it's excite if i come up here to angelus pros cons everything great michael that's not fun but it's good i mean i think what you're saying is very important for people to hear like they don't wait they get bogged down in the details way too much of things that really don't matter your body is not that sensitive or insensitive enough where it can't convert something just from something that something else and if it needs it it will do that for the most part so there are some real small things at the end but a lot we can do is like this is like reasonable program that's actually possible for you to implement and that doesn't drive you so crazy or so is so difficult so confusing for you that you get halfway into it you abandoned it and then you want to start over but you know i was thinking dan gable when dan gable was young he pretty much our to anybody and he was
just an unbelievable savage when it came to his training and then that manifest itself in the competition he was just like the momentum behind him because of his ruthless training was so intense but how you can walk right when his hips are gone as needs our guys got artificial everything you know he's just fucked up because of it and some guys are willing to make that sacrifice yeah but is that here's the question is that sacrificed necessary like but can you be too tough verse is smart in your training it possible to say right because like you said that where so tricky is physiology versus psychology so if that gave him that extra confidence that he needed to perform better well then it's hard to say that it wasn't necessary like you is always talking about guys on steroids that he liked competing in sky zone steroids he knew they were mentally weak and they would break right
so who the hell knows right like you got you have all this conflicting stuff and you try to do this dance which is why again you need people you need a team to do this stuff and ok this is what i think so people have a really hard time with and implementation so a very easy one sugar right now don't know anyone in the world who advocates adding sugar your advocates a good thing like no one's going to say that what you tell somebody scientific truth vs what the message you spread spread to either your athletes or a bunch of people that can be very very different because because of unintended applications or consequences so far exam well there's no physiological harm with sugar it's not bad for you in anyway but as a message to the general public and so most of fighting goes back and forth between any conversation like this is
people saying yeah yeah but the actual fact of it is good yeah but the sciences wrong and they're not conceding that they're actually talking past each other far more than they are talking let me celebrate that you don't think that sugar is bad for you no it can't be it can't be now we've in your diet no it's confusing exactly 'cause i want to breakdown having sugar in your diet eating sugary foods and snacks having an excess of sugar has dire health consequences absolutely but there's a keyboard you said there access access ok so meaning a piece of through like a nectarine not bad free at all no course good for you and plus fiber absolutely yeah but process sugar with its removed from that fiber and put into a coca cola that becomes an issue because concentration issue because now you can consume at a concentration that probably wouldn't happen normally right
quantities that would never happen normally bingo so now you can have person in the corner of left who that says like no you're an idiot look at the science sugar is not bad for you for a thousand reasons and they're technically right but and we have conversations to three hundred and fifty million americans they don't want all that day tell him between they want do it do it do it or do i not and so if i to take a hard line and i go you know what sugar is bad don't need it that actually cause this is a generally good effect on people they go ok i didn't know this adding sugar to my stuff is not good don't do it right which is a net good thing although technically individually it's not true ten so sugar in and of itself is not bad access sugar and processed sugar and added sugar in mass quantities is bad exactly that's what you're dealing with the average american diet whether it's through breads or pastas or actually sugar and soda itself right or sucrose or super low store any of those things and added to it and so on
people like to the poor souls go on the internet and they're trying to figure out like while gotta carbs bad for me or not it's like well your fighting over stuff that's not important and a missing the message because people want real answers and you're not helping them i won't give it to them anyway i don't care if it makes you look right on the internet we need to come together and say ok well here is good here is bad bad here the pros and cons etc now here's the information for you folks and it doesn't matter who's book it is or who wrote it like that's not the important part even having this conversation though is going to be really confusing to a lot of people because you're talking about so many different variables and buy you're being actually honest about all the stuff and saying well it's you know there's no real good answer and it's different for one person is for another person some some people might get over really well unlike macadamia nuts and almonds and get there protein from you know and uh people they my actually have an allergy to those things and
trust me try to be my students they get irritated his shit when i do this to him but it's probably a good thing but when a fighter in particular is thinking about their career they sort of exist in the six week to eight week lifespans their whole life unfortunately yeah or fortunately it works out well that they go through these ruth was training camps an to have any variability have any unknown to have any so this is yeah i mean you look good point this is not the kind of conversation i would have with the fighter right not during not specially ten it's from a fight overload their brains possibility no no no it is very is very what do you do what do you like to do what do you hate to do what have you done before what's worked well etc ok so have analogy called the cook the baker the chef and give you a very quick story of it you can listen to the whole episode of my podcast if you want the podcast called the body of knowledge so
it's on itunes alleged yeah office of putting all dot com it's it's actually not to talk about that too much but it's only nine episodes is not like a non running podcast it's radio lab dan carlin but for physiology cool conditioning so not to that extent but you get so i like to look at people as either the easy one is either baker or cook right so do you know between baking and cooking is no cool most people don't baking is chemistry basically right you can't like i'm at low tables tablespoon here maybe teaspoon baking soda baking powder out same thing that does not work you can't break like that right you will not anything your you would have a much of crap and an baking is chemistry this and this oven and this and you add this and you cannot do these in other orders it's very specific cooking is like well what's left i get some oil get some hot kind of dice yeah throat so some whatever that you give a mishmash right
well generally i find work well with nutrition information either one of two approaches so if i said joe i'm going to do a nutrition program for the next six months whatever you want an ice you can do this one two ways together every morning way every single thing you eat on the scale text it to me i'll tell you exactly how many prices of avocado have how many holla does and we would i tell you exact weights and volumes for everything or we can maybe to once a day or once a week and we would just go over concepts and ideas here's what we're trying to get to do what you want which would you like i don't know what should i like it's not assured it's a personal preference so so people would i cook just ideas the concepts like one or two things to work through cool no i get anxiety with all those rules all that info asian like i i implement it like it's too complicated i don't have that much time etc i call people cooks
other people get anxiety like my wife natasha when i don't give her exact numbers she's like well is six grams eight almonds at nine hundred am it's like what is it right so giving all the information in the way that they absorb it is important so if you talk to a baker chemistry details weighing everything out and i go i i just he's going to a little bit fat little bit of protein some greens and it's not going to work for them you have to go with a very very specific system even a cup of this tablespoon of that even if that system isn't perfect but about a chef so a chef is someone who knows the chemistry of baking as the years of experience of mixing it in different ways now go ahead and break those rules right just break camp cooking rezultat baking roles chef is like anderson silva well of fighting yeah
yeah but a chef would be maybe where you're on your trip from you do you know what like i can do that i could fall very specific die but i know the concept and i know these rules let me experiment here and you have room to maneuver the problem is most peop want to jump in and be chefs right like anderson silva their first day and get over well i see what you're saying so get a detailed understanding about how your body functions under very specific protocols and then start fucking around with it or the opposite start off with the cook a pro to say let's give me let me give you one or two concepts this week i want you to eat one fresh green everyday and i want you to make sure your protein every time me that's it my only real okay next week we had a rule maybe we had a concept and as you get better and you get more confidence and you get more comfortable you can go cable how much protein exactly now let's try hundred grams alright well that's on that list around fifty and we've we've slowly pushed you but generally being a baker
all those rules weighing everything generally that's not sustainable for most people now what when you call do you coach them as far as their diet goes do they actually tell them what they should and should need depends on if there are cooker baker so a cook i do not i tell them basic concepts right so i talk to them how what's going to be helpful for them should i add more carbs or should i these feelings when i'm i'll go out like yeah let's add more cars i actually do this or this this one do you generally tell p to avoid any specific foods or are there any things in a row training or get into the way now the obvious now now i mean the basics candy pizza like not really unless we have some very specific history with them that hate remember you don't react well when this happens but generally
and then when you say like protein do you specify fish or chicken or meat if it's a cook know know if it's a baker absolutely absolutely and whether it's important that i chose fish or chicken almost doesn't matter as much as telling them that the fact that they all go he dial for me create i got to you eight ounces of how a bit there it is bam right right could you be like the vast majority of the ones i work with are already pretty good with their nutrition and it's really more concepts some of them just want the stress relief telling him what to eat and they want some to come in i do you know anyone who will come in and food prep meal prep for me and yeah ok we can do that but some of them like it some of their distress some like that control so i try to help them again it's not about me i don't care if my system worked i don't have a system my system is what do you want to do how can i help you and your team what can we do that's the approach right wow god that seems so it there so
many variables and it's so complex which is why i get so irritated you're teasing me earlier bucket and all fired up about it i could understand but i appreciate this intellectual honesty about these variables in about how there is not one approach because again there's so many kids out there that are teaching their method in air quotes so here we go let's take those dickheads right if europe landing on one of those systems is going to be fantastic for you five star review and you're going to get everybody is like this right you're a baker the did a system if you're a cook though your hook there's an if a scientist could step in and go like well and this and this and this and this and then everyone's fighting back and forth like walk do i and i felt like i'm so confused the right question i think what it's a lot of people is that some people are finding
and they are exploiting it by tell exactly what they think is right it's human nature right we want the next solution we want all this stuff we want it all dialed into one it's fallacy of unicorn like i'm just searching because there's there's this one thing if i fix that one thing everything else alaina doesn't work like that yeah now what about vegetables like do spesso divide the type of vegetables you like do you prefer a dark leafy green vegetable general statement beats or the more color the more texture the bedroom right and like you said actually earlier it's the variety that matters with these folks is sustainable now having said that here's what i'll do outside of camp the conversations were having like in many different vegetables as you possibly can different colors different countries different seasons all this stuff right let's cook him sometimes let's team let's see him fresh let's eat them raw there's pros and cons makes us exactly now you got a fight in four weeks
and for twenty five pounds overweight sometimes uh will take those options away in the control numbers ok here's the approach you're going to have a in c at these three meals every day every other day will rotate then i've just removed once a variables from there and they can just refocusing go okay ball and we can watch the weight we're down half a pound or down half pound on a quarter pound were great let's maybe exchange out kill for spanish this time or something but the hard part about extreme variability is lack of control so sometimes if you're like wow i mean not anything you're telling me i'm eating a bunch of different stuff but i'm not losing weight well maybe they don't understand yeah but this time vegetable has a lot more calories in this type of vegetable we're getting really high up in your numbers or when you eat this the way you prop it the way you like it is gloriously dense so i will reduce so it was funny 'cause if you look one of my nutrition programs for my athlete you could look at it and be like
as an idiot he doesn't have this this this and this stupid doesn't have any of this and you like dummy you think that three day play what we did the whole year round your argument someone is not even real oh they're real you of all people know the real now i've always wanted to ask somebody this i hope you know the answer there's all these these will ways to treat water alkali turn water on sense bullshit right mostly yeah order soon so we've actually a study on that six weeks alkaline what does it mean like what the fuck is alkaline water that's ph acid alkaline space but i mean how do they make the water that way like what are they doing to it so generally water comes probably a little bit acidic especially our tap water and so i would imagine they just do some sort of combination of salter or salting pretty easy where in chemistry wise so to get it a little bit technically but i think it's fall to your water i think somebody did actually didn't
any of a bunch of those alkaline waters and tested them in the store like bon different brands and they were all over the place is cedie wise yeah imagine that when i'm close to alkaline but it's also like remember it's going change when it's on the shelf most of sunlight all that crap i call it holy water yeah it's kind of then i mean i'm i always feel like like oh yeah that's the blessed water like come on man it's fucking water i mean i'm open if studies came out and we kept doing like oh shit there's something here but there's no studies that's happened before with things i think that's nonsense that stupid i mean a bunch of things the training mass is training mask absolutely is it good well it's not good or bad depends on what you use it for how dare you yeah i need an answer i'll give you an answer so what i like to do is give examples of of one good one bad right and this is brian mckenzie keep bringing him up but he taught me this lesson this is a great lesson in humility so he's if you don't know him he's a
disruptive in the running community in the movement he came up came up together so i wasn't interested in him people kept getting at me like look at this stuff and i'm like crossfit coach out like not interest crossfit council has nothing against that but at the time i was like what this crossfit coach now again arrogance on my part mistake and second we're running coach like i'm doubling on uninterested again this is me highlighting my mistakes so but then i actually enough paid attention to what he was saying and it turns out there was something there so it's fun how much you hated someone when you don't actually listen or read their stuff so he was the training mask and i'm like you know like everyone else it doesn't work evidence doesn't work etc etc etc and then i listen to what he was how he was actually using it so he wasn't using it to simulate altitude 'cause that's not really effective but he was used
to teach people how to use a diaphragm and that's what i was like oh i get it here so i'll come i can finish this in but the quick analogy here would be if i handed you a pen and said you know like does this pen work well it may not work as a dagger but it worked pretty good as a pen so the problem with mask was it flipped it didn't work for what he was told you to work for but it worked because it is in this case the active restricting people's breathing sometime can help them learn to use their diaphragm people who breathe with their shoulders up and they don't use their stomach in their diaphragm a lot when you put that in article in front of their face i don't have that option so they learn to breathe through their belly and user diaphragm interesting and so i didn't give him the time of day 'cause i'm like training mass doesn't work elevation is such a etc
oh that's not how you were using what's the benefit of breathing through diaphragm with a mask on it's not the mask that's important is the fact that it it's a quick way to identify if you bring this so you figure now it's like a white belt boss fruit and has some sort of a breathing device and he he was telling me about some studies that they did with it i would showed was beautiful my lab what he was saying is that what makes his better is that it's easy to breathe out the valve open so you can exhale really good dump your carbon dioxide whereas other ones that have just smaller holes are not is good so we did that study this is actually that's why turned me on to brian initially because i'm like a boss came to me with the to trainer i was like like the stuff doesn't work bro turns out of this here's a good example so his device restricts air flow in right but you can change this setting
it can be a lot of restriction or a little yeah he's like filters that you put on it right there boss rutin yeah the two trainer i saw all those little valves on the left and right hand side thick they no he increase air flow or decrease their full so what we did is we have people come in four times and they either got the high restriction low restriction medium restriction or no restriction and what we saw is in every person and either they did some reading drills like and blowing it out hailing sars a can blowing it out they did that thirty times and they did basically the two max test so they ran to exhaustion which took a five day thing so want to see like i was interested performance like does it actually make me perform better and so they either got a lot of restriction in the restriction medium or none
single person got substantially better like twenty to thirty percent better but they also got worse under one of the conditions as well so what that told us was this for example you went under the high restriction so you're like and you can't get any air and it actually fatigued your intercom schools which are the muscles between your ribs that open up your ribs that allow air flow in diaphragm and those got fatigued so when you did your performance you got slower 'cause you were already gassed but if you have really strong intercostals the lower so the real open valve wasn't enough resistance to actually cause those muscle to warm up so that didn't help your performance so what we found is my point here basically is the individual ization of the approach here is really really important so there's something there for all of us but you're going to have to titrate out you might need heavy you might need
you might need middle and one of those questions might actually make it worse for you so the individual the ability is important point there how would you figure which one you needed a performance test and what kind of performance s would use in this but you could do anything you could say i'm going to run a mile and a half and for my time and put that thing in your mouth as you're running or as azure as warm up as you yeah so you sit there and you put in your mouth and you do you you only use it to do drills you don't necessarily do use it to actually work out the vast majority the time that's what i recommend and you could do it when your work out but it would be for different reasons so when you do it what would you recommend do like say say if i gotta know two trainer i put it in like what kind of workouts am i doing with this thing in my mouth breathing exercise again you're going to hate this probably some fancy near to the by now but it depends on the gold work out down at so
if the goal of the workout is to get the best score possible then you do probably thirty or forty breasts with the optimal resistance feel great but if the point of the work out is to actually improve your ranks of the diaphragm bingo right thing you did you put your son in sub optimal positions it's right back to what i said at the beginning adapting or optimizing so we're talking about but their muscles in between the ribs can you actually strengthen those to the point where i mean that's our huge issue with guys catcher injured absolutely you can strengthen those with bo2 training point with that's one mechanism but you can do it a bunch of different ways you had you had off on action so i've been working with him for a couple years now so doing initial stuff with him and it's very clear like we can mess with a lot of different breathing protocols and get you a lot of immediate and the late up sorry brian more more time
he had his conversation with jon jones on wednesday before the fight first time that ever met so i'm gonna put him can't brian put him through some of these breeding protocols the soon as they are done done was like hey we fly down here on saturday blow him down that day adam this corner walked mother down was right next to it probably you and dana but he's doing all the things so that this is how for some of these breeding things are women was great to get us like started bosses vice was awesome the train mouse work work concepts but now brian is really involved in development set actually there's a bunch of different ways we can do it and he has protocols you're going to have to ask but he is the one that can say like do this for this thing to exactly this way for this thing you want this adaptation you want this effect then i'll dial that i go to the cryo chamber cryotherapy place where you put a surgical mask an ear muffs and your whole body is immersed it's not just
below the neck yeah yeah we've seen those and when i use the wim hof breathing method it's almost like somebody made it fifty degrees warmer oh yeah it's ways i just got back from montauk i spent three days and jump in a nice best all time out there but we actually have multiple protocols so that's more akin to someone called the breath of fire is this when you're with dennis so yeah we're at an event there with layered hamilton and those folks will brian also they layered in gap even bryan gabby reece hamilton layered a company a xpt that's a lot of this lifestyle stuff into practice and so they put on these live events they also sent me some of their new super food stuff that they had a plan see the creamer stuff it's really good amazing yeah it's a little espresso based powder plus superman dairy queen too i like it it's fantastic so i can work with that company for a couple of years since they got started but
we go out there we do these things and so we can say okay we'll get to the birth of our protocol and you'll feel like wow you get hot it warm there's other ways we can do it that will bring you back down when you're like yeah i'ma take a nap there's euphoria ones where you can get like wow feel like i'm on psychedelics right now super high school intro pic breathing bunch apnea stuff proteomes stuff all these things can have different outcomes depending on what you're looking for so they brian's has got the system developed now where like it's what he did john first when he did it was like one thousand o'clock at night and he's let me relax you kind of bring it down like this amazing things i actually got train right now so i can give you back up let's go back to the way inside him back up so is there any benefit stuff too using those breathing techniques versus an two to trainer or is it different situations exactly
location based there's things i like so you mentioned what boss says the opening valve at the end of the two trainer allows you to dump out carbon dioxide the training for example wouldn't right so it's not right or wrong it's just and what you're looking to do because one thing you can train your body to do we perform when you generated carbon dioxide so in oxide is what actually makes you feel like you want to breathe right it's not lack of oxygen right so i can put you in a situation where you get a bunch of carbon dioxide build up and if i don't let you dump it then you're going to fatigue a lot faster but necessarily a bad thing you could learn to then deal with a lot of fatigue deal with it mentally science as well as physiologically there's going to be adaptations so because of the fact that your body has more carbon dioxide in the system your body a dead
the process that carbon dioxide more efficient this would be the assumption right yet to be scientifically shown arm but this is you know where we were this is the thought process you could feel this intuitively you're like wow and it's also a way for us to get a lot of training volume in or sorry a lot of cardiovascular when is your heart rate goes way up with actually doing a lot of physical work so for mma guys this is what we're looking for sometimes because of physical work in their training camp so high we can't add anymore tony's is to beat him up so now we can get them a weekly workout in that's easy on the joints and ligaments in the bones so the other approach would be dump all the c two or do other things like nasal breathing only but we only allowed to breathe through your nose when you breathe through your nose it actually can release nitric oxide so this is why when you only when you breathe for you
not only but especially when everything else huh why and what is your body produce more nitric oxide brief you know i don't know i don't know that's weird because you would think they just breed wim off i was asking but brief yeah he's are bringing out doesn't raise any holidays yeah he says like any hole i don't care yeah but so again what wins not wrong or anything like that but whims the style is great but that there's many styles is the point i guess like is great we've done some sign stuff together but how do you feel about saunas same thing amazing benefits there potential but there's no free passes and physiology so when you get something you're probably coming at a compromise that something else what would the compromise bill we just don't have enough on the stuff we know we focused on the heat shock proteins that's like everyone knows about those by now graham the ability to deal with on comfort the tv guide there's a lot
stuff the difficulties when you run a scientific study you get one or two or three variables you don't get one thousand right so we folk on the one or two that you like while this is moving something here but just like the example we went over the cold so yeah it's great for this or it's terrible and the people say no they want to make blanket statements like heats good or colds good or colts bad so we study it more we start finding out well actually it's good for this is good for this and it's bad for that nothing nothing that so we have to assume someone would be the same way there has to be consequences to it depends on there's got to be some sort of benefits in terms of recovery right so do you think that someone should do maybe like cryo one day song of the next should they do it in the same day like so for example weather in camp i generally don't go out of my way to recommend sana because they already get really hot in training your grappling if they're doing stuff they're getting heat shock protein
i need to go to hot yoga in particular right there's this study they're doing right now at harvard apparently somebody was telling me about it the other day where there concentrating on high yoga and the benefits of hot yoga in heat shock proteins yeah i'm sure they're going to find a lot like that's pretty the ship sailed a little bit like we're we're confident something there's a lot of detail the workout plan is going on there probably something similar to sauna right so i gently say for people like you and like me i don't go out of my way to do too much sauna work because of way i train i get really hot and sometimes will it rain specifically with a little bit more clothing sometimes and like one set of seeing a sauna for forty five minutes let me wear a little bit extra clothing during my training session get real hot for the average people i think it's a fantastic modality because there may be only working out once a week or less and you can get them hot and we actually work on those health benefits
our building good quality habits and we can eventually lead them down the path to more exercise manual stewart used to run the kronk gym he used to crank the temperature up in the gym over one hundred degrees that was his thing like you wanted guys to box like in this it's like a hot yoga room well there's a couple of things to that i've done a lot of that in my life and i used to hate it we used to just fight for the door like wait around to go over wrestling wrestling practice theories how it really needs to do mma with it all the time and like the problem was it was scary because the floor is water and you're like i'm not kicking you're terrified miss not not good it was awful hey i hated that's real bad for kicking the skip those practices a lot you but so example i don't think that's typically needed what the exception one time when pat cummins fought in brazil it was like one hundred and ten outside and it was eighty percent humidity or something which was it was hot
televisual yeah i mean that was that fight i was outdoors i think no it was indoor but if everything was open oh that's what it was yeah so super super hot now we didn't like train for that aren't dissipate that but could see if you knew you're fighting a venue like that like what they used to do in bodog costa rica oh yeah they would fight on the beach right just horrid side so you could see like well in that situation maybe it's needed but you're fighting in vegas something indoors and maybe we don't need it for that but that doesn't mean you couldn't implement it once or twice i wouldn't go on my way to do it though so it wouldn't be a daily thing no 'cause what's going to happen is you're compromise performance pacing is a real problem biz brings a great example this to dennis was up a bunch of people if you fight environment like that your pace and the amount of output you can do is going to slow way down in the gym right can be hot to gas out
you gotta fight in your fight in its temperature controlled you're not used to that pace so if you just fighting at the pace that it takes for you to sustain ten rounds of sparring in the gym at one hundred and ten degrees and then we come in and you and i fight and i'm ready to go with this but you're not ready for that pace so it's not you we have a condition but you just like all my i'm just not appoint skies is you know we don't feel right so you have to be careful of training to so far outside of what you're actually going to encounter which is some these guys run those problems and they do you know thomas park ten rounds that i can go five easy yeah yeah but your pays for your five is way different pace for ten yeah so you have to be careful there lot of questions man physiology doodad that is part of the problem right but there are so many variables there are so many questions that there is no real definitive protocol to follow now is a bunch of different ones the pursuit like the way i would say it is the truth
is mostly a lack of perspective so when you think that you are on some on breakable truth it's because you haven't looked at it from a big enough perspective for the most part right and there are some that will put us way in in biological truth that's almost always true in physics truth of that's a lot less true like we're pretty sure gravity's real they could pretty sure right and we can we can be sure what is good for it pretty sure now one of my cat physics and those get kind of weird right but for the most part that is true but science in terms of biological or medical is a lie lot less i mean how many times we have to see that where it's like this is true this is true for fifty years oops it's not is this also and for you do you i mean it seems like you're very passionate about it but i mean it also seems like wow it could be kind of stressful having so many variables and possibilities and i don't i don't think stress is even close i would say ninety nine percent fun like it's
yes for me in terms of i don't want i i like it would break my heart if i give some of the wrong advice and run their career i can that would be the stress dress in terms of being right or like saying much jumps up and be improved i don't care about that all yeah that's an issue with a lot of trainers right where the given bad advice and you see it play out the fight i mean what the reasons i i used to do a lot of professional athletes in other sports or because of the ones i gave that almost up entirely and i gave up i've done some actors and things like that but gently she away from that even though the the money is far far higher for me and those things but i did it because like these mma folks like i have a real passion for someone who's going to put all that on the line and they're going to risk everything and go out and that is more exciting to me and i'm like that's a fun a really fun me in it and it's worth me investing my motion i mean when helen one the gold in rio like i would just lost it like emotionally i was like gone for weeks like this exhausted
because i invested so much into that i don't want to do that for somebody so that they can make an extra one million right on top of that thirty million like it motivate me that much so i like working with these folks and so because like it breaks my heart if you're like man you gave up everything for this kind of a living and the best come for you was it you made 20k instead of 10k and then i lost that for you 'cause i gave you really bad rehydration advice for something right that's a stress for me but the rest of stuff man like it's fun it's invigorating for me to continue to be like well we we but now we don't know this or this like it's continual progress and by karl popper stance on this one in terms of science is not about identifying truth it reducing uncertainty that's a good way to put it that's all it is right i wish i could take credit for it's a good way to put so
which is we get closer and we know more okay we know this is an innocent but we're still anticipated day when we do like is when it comes by a mechanic sir well they're all edgy there are some things that i would be confident saying like basically we know that this is true now you need to drink water like are basically said that that's true we need to have a lot of regarding like the very standard stuff then those are thing comfortable saying this is basically true and we go on we only keep adding to that list some things get pulled out now we know for uh i told this story also on my podcast about the history of strength conditioning 1900s to where it is now quick story is there was a guy named peter karpovich dentist and he was extremely he was the guy who started the idea that lifting weights causes you to flexibility and it's for your health and all these things right this is one thousand nine hundred and fifty two fifty four something like that
he's a scientist phd and he calls in a guy a guy named bob hoffman is and you member bob hoffman you're from the generation you may remember york barbell muscle and strength the magazine okay american as all this stuff but basically there was a show and ice bring in this these weight lifters back then weightlifting powerlifting bodybuilding was all kind of the same thing in and let's put on a demonstration and so they bring in all these lifters and they put on this ministration in front of the whole school in front of dark karpovich and everyone's a call great their strong and athletic and everyone knows like the showdown is coming like everyone is there to watch the show where everyone is really there to watch like the like the internet now it's like let's watch the shitshow afterwards so everyone's done and carpet stands up and he's like it's great you're strong
in a lot of muscle and all that but let me ask a question can you scratch your back i think i was like sure you know where at the court where he sits scratching ball plan everywhere we want to do what you wanna do drops into a full splits grabs fifty pound dumbbells as a standing back flip at this point carpet is like my entire career is that strength training is bad for you it's on healthy you lose flex lydiane these dudes the strongest thing will just showed up not only they are they not inflexible but they just did it splits their their body builders remain world champions throws right there in his career to say like do i admit the whole world about how wrong my entire research line was find some excuse well you that well he does the honorable thing and goes i'm sorry i'm wrong and change his entire career research going on to actually studying strength training and of course that doesn't do any of these things we do
is the nature of science is were mostly wrong so that's really where we're at with everything that's an easy example but if you told somebody fifty years ago people still like well i don't know they look at this study look at this study is i used to be an issue with boxing running things to always say boxers should never strength train tell vendor holyfield came along with mackie shilstone right and won the title of the heavier yesterday at the airport he looks great oh man crazy huge he was like walking out of the bathroom by himself and he had like a cell phone up to his ear like i'm on the phone but i think this cell phone was dead but he's like didn't want anybody talk that's fine but i don't blame him now he looks fantastic i just found a buddy minder his he's doing do you know he's he's like coach or managing fighters now something easy yeah i don't know like by the biggest house that exist yeah yeah that fucking stupid this mansion in atlanta it was like one hundred and fifty brooms or so
did you put that much money in front of people in sport like that when you born in other people bowl and you're trying to pull harder you gotta do what you gotta do yeah i don't think ma's ever caught up to that in terms of financially yeah it's getting close with conor mcgregor honestly his biggest windfall right now is a boxing match so does the the thing about a vendor that's weird is that he never got out of shape he looked fence yeah you still fit he's gotta be sixty plus he's one of the rare guys and i think he had a fight as recently as a year ago no no yeah yeah oh wow find out when a vander holyfield's last fight it was i really wanted to say you had to fight like a year ago oh that's terrifying yeah but he's ok it's weird it's not like help what's this dude just retired or just got smashed really bad yes that's amazing yeah that was a freak incident man that's why
things about like why don't they have pads around the ring case guys fall through the ropes like i can't imagine that they didn't they've seen that happen before guys again up through that before that's all flights out of sight right yeah yeah blows like a fake charity boxing match what it say in terms of when last fight yeah but that's not real i think you're lying joe like you know just pull up his his record's wikipedia record i'm sure there's a wikipedia on a vander holyfield brian nielsen phys is two thousand and eleven ok still six years ago yeah that's pretty recently and consideration oh you know what it was i believe he was planning a comeback a few years ago and he was having a really hard time getting licensed i think that's what it was
but still say if you would ask me out i said twelve years ago i would've guessed way longer then well how old is he now sixty sixty no it's not sixty two and six thousand and fifty five so essentially had his last fight when he was like what four thousand eight hundred and forty nine something like that well i don't know i don't really remember his style that much he didn't take a lot of shots do you oh hell yeah bruiser yeah i mean he talked took some he just a tremendous chin he just unbelievably tough guy in the unbelievably fit you know that was a thing about holyfield was that unbelievably fit unbelievably game like when he beat mike tyson the first fight like i remember you know kevin
kevin was actually over my house we were watching it together would jumping around screaming like a bunch of school girls can split it was insane yeah 'cause nobody saw that comment right yeah that was amazing he had a spectacular crew though i certainly did yeah hope you still got it together there is like that's just a tough one me yeah it certainly is yeah that it's gotta be weird i wonder what do we have conversation with a fighter i do not my role so i don't get up at all but if they ask me on like a friendly advice thing and look it will be very careful zero but i generally tell them all to retire like regardless my this is this is the risk is not worth the payout in the ufc this is not like is the occasional connor but this is this is the anomaly that proves of rule actually so my advice all of them is if it's not a good investment like it is not worth
risk because even if you get the win bonus in the fight of the night one fight like that is potentially years and how much income could you make in those ten years of working probably more than that 100k well in terms of income for sure but for a lot of them it's not really they're doing is they're doing it for glory so i mean that's but i'm taking it from a logical perspective telling you what to do i'm saying though like me as your friend i would love you to never fight because is great but having so that you do that so let me help you as much as i can to get there but you can tell to like if you're if you just don't if you're not on charisma wise and stuff you're never going to make that real like life changing moment we're just talking about money though in terms of damage do you notice in terms of physical performance you're seeing an athlete move around i haven't gotten to i haven't got anybody like that where if had someone come to you and say hey i'm thinking about you know when i get out
not exactly sure when what do you think yeah i mean i would i would look at them from the performance side of it i wouldn't look at brain damage and i would say well here are your numbers in the room stacked up to other folks we've had in this room and you're far below performance wise i would say you might have a performance problem in terms of you might not be talented enough physically to compete i can i can make a comment about your other reasons retire but if you have if i tested you across the board and you were terrible at everything then i might be like well physically from my purse if i don't know if you have what it takes anymore do you see a deterioration in physical skills from like punishment i don't know i can really say that but that's just because i don't i don't have enough exposure to enough of those folks to make a qualified comment on that over long periods of time yeah i would need dozens and dozens of guys over years to really fairly what's the longest you've ever worked with five a six year probably probably six years
it is and it's not like some i miss not everything i'm not talking every day and sometimes it's like once a camp generally what my goal is is to teach them how to think as much through the stuff as they can and so ideally they don't need me after more than a couple of camps other than the few checkins won't come the lab get this test set i got a hunch about this or we did this type of training for six weeks we think we are addressing this problem can we come to get tested to see if it actually got better and no problem the if i do is like i said it's so much usually helping them calm down through all the nonsense that i can give them a settling presence in terms of you this is not something you should worry about or get to hear so but yeah multiple five six years and we've got data we got biopsy data off them from over the years which has been very very interesting actually that was one of the first reasons i wanted to get into sports as i'm like i wanted to biopsy these dudes yeah that's
that would be really as a scientist gotta be really an interesting opportunity to we had one fighter because he's a he was a wrestler and a very very he went through attrition like that system he's not like a knockout artist and like that and he was almost seven thousand and seventy five percent fast twitch and then we also look this other thing so the things that we measure in our lab is called mile nuclear domain this is what holds a dna and it tells this all the grow shrink die mike repair well like human biology or human muscle is really unique it's the only sells all of biology that is multi nucleated so i mean it's got not only more than one but it's got thousands of nuclei per cell obvious advantages that allows us eight a lot more plasticity so we can recover and repair an adapter just really really quickly which is why we see people
fiber type change in a matter of weeks paper that came out you're showing actually high fat high sugar diet can change fiber type we seen carbon dioxide concentrations altered fiber type things like this so this is really interesting because the more nuclei you have the faster it's also what determines how big a muscle will grow you've heard of like muscle memory so that's man this is was doing muscle memory that makes sense i always wondered if that was real working right now through it a lot of people are but the old theory would be buy sell would come in it would turn into a nuclei and the cell will only grow as big as the man nuclei that are around it or that inside of it right so what that basically means is there's a certain domain or a certain size at each nucleus wilkin
and it won't exceed that size because it loses control so if if you are all three of us we're all the nuclei in this whole room was one cell if we want expand the wall we would have to bring in the nucleus because you'd be like like it's too much area to control go through like about it raining a year or something of heavy lifting and we add those those satellite cells that turn into nuclei and we expand the size well we used to think i could we stop training and in the room gets smaller i used to think that my art like time to kick jamie other and he's gone but now look like happening is he staying around retrain i've got more of those nuclei right there and so it's easy it's easier so i siding at the mike it's easier for me to and my size because the nuclear there oh that makes sense ok so this is actual scientific reason for muscle memory yeah you can increase the amount of nuclei just by increasing the size muscle and that makes
easier to go back to that if you lose some muscle well right the the model nuclear would allow for the muscles task it bigger so little bit universe but based on the same thing anything else to add before we get outta here the book man i got a book out on all this stuff called unplugged avon going from technology to upgrade your fitness performance and consciousness isn't on amazon although all that stuff is there an audiobook available there is but i'm telling you sorry there's a kindle but i highly recommend you don't get it because is the kindle now you mean that's the digital version right why get the hard copy why does the book is real be a guide for how to use some of these training technologies in training how and how can ruin your training so part of that is the importance doing a couple of things getting back to nature and how the behind how that helps as well as the sconce of choosing suffering and
and choosing discomfort and how that's physiologically important for you so a part of the book is built in a way where the photos the layout the quality of paper is all part of the reading experience they don't have that in like kendall with photographs now it's you can close this is all black and white the texture of the paper is different if you have one of those kindle hd's the ones that are digital and maybe yeah maybe that's good but so are you saying now that you recommend the hard top yeah i mean i don't things i don't really care like but you for the experience of the it's still keep it in not expensive what's the physiological benefit of getting back to nature although we have so much in terms of everything visualization eyesight did you listen to that using podcast yeah did one on the color blue also called this is a teaser i'm not going to
the whole story what's it called the the didn't and doesn't i don't know the episode find it if you google the radio lab episode on the color blue let basically we as humans didn't really recognize the color blue and tell the bible one yeah so we had a counselor like the physiology didn't change but we didn't have a war for the color blue until the bible came in so if you look at an impasse there prior to that yeah that's probably isn't the sky blue on radio yep exactly so what that what they do is get in a fight as we don't have a separate color for several words the color blue because we did need frenchay blue shades wasn't a poor and for the world because blue doesn't happen very frequently in biology in nature it wasn't until we had textiles and we started printing making cloth and paper and stuff like that that we had all these different dyes and shades of blue so then we develop different shades of blue in different colours so because
we started perceiving and focusing on different shades of blue now the average person that comes the room would be able to identify all these different blues or prior to this didn't care about it we didn't focus on it so we all just saw that is one blue so things like that are important so what are we paying attention to what are we being conscious of what are we perceiving where we focusing on has a direct influence on our physiology so doesn't make going to nature so if we think about from this what's happening in the exposure when we're in this artificial environment versus being in the external environment like nature so what are we not being exposed to now that we could be exposed to our nature the third part of the book is the consciousness aspect which is we talked to a lot of people tim ferriss wrote a section or the little interview thing for steven kotler did one when i talk about the things like getting into flow state
the stress relief of it and all the other psychological benefits that we have from detaching a little bit from our constant tech exposure dopamine is another great example right so if we look at the dopamine rush that we get from the constant exposure and things like oh i want to look at my likes i want to continue look at this we get out in nature and expose ourselves to physiological elements similar to the cold in the hot and thirsty the hungry i mean you've been out in the woods like you know what it feels like going a full day without food being extremely cold for a few days and getting back in any like the euphoria the sensations like you can't really well he can't but it's really beneficial to have our self exposed to that and it's a problem now the really the the book is about where
twenty years all right and one time with the book unplugged evolve from technology to upgrade your fitness performance and consciousness beautiful thanks man i really so it was great conversation really appreciate it and eat the ladies and gentlemen so you thank you everybody to tune into the podcast and and thank you to our sponsors thanks to anit dot com go to onn it use the code word rogan and save ten percent off any in all supplements thank you to dollar shave club go to dollar shave club dot com forward slash rogan and you can get their sweet deal a executive razor with a tube of their doctor carver's shave butter for only five dollars with free shipping after that the raise is just a few bucks a month
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-05.