Joe Rogan sits down with the founder the former ONE Welterweight Champion and the former Bellator Welterweight Champion, Ben Askren.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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on top of the home page and type in JRE, that stamps dot com and enter Jry all right. My guest today is the great Powerful Ben Askren Ben is world class wrestler. Who is competed in many international competitions. He is uh defeated as a mixed martial arts fighter and is one of the to me. One of the biggest disappointments that this guy, in MMA that this guy didn't get a chance to fight in the UFC and he's kind. I'm semi, retired, retired right now We get into that now. We talk about it, a little bit in the podcast and a lot of other things. Just I really enjoyed talking and I hope you enjoy it as well. Please welcome the Joe Rogan experience trying my day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day, then asking LISA gentlemen do not talked about you in this podcast. At least it doesn't times
you are the number one guy that I'm most disappointed, never fought in the UFC yeah I uh just get. Whenever you talk about me, I get like fifteen text Joe's talking about you now and you know, they'll send me clips or whatever so obviously appreciate that, but you I never. I never really got to fight those top guys and it was for reasons beyond my control, yeah and you're done now. Yeah I saw I said. I said I don't want to say I'm done period. I said I'm done excluding the fact that I get. Fight, improve I'm number one. That would be the excluding fan. So if you could get in the UFC you'd be willing, But again I mean I don't care where it is, but I I really genuinely don't, and obviously that would be the thing that makes sense. There is legislation like the Ali ACT and things going through. So I don't know that. Maybe you know I'm still thirty three, so I'm not old, and you know food GSP took four years off from one flight to next fight. So I'm not going
rampage overnight, while your style to you avoided so much damage, I think it. I think it once in two two thousand and seventeen so yeah. I think it once in three fights yeah. I I that was she told me. We were fighting and one FC, which is a big asian organizations like the asian version of the UFC yeah. So what once he started in two thousand and twelve, I think obviously my contract Belcher twenty thirteen and then there's a negotiation process since I've I've seen with south and what happened to you in the Chapel Bell Door and also- and you left in areas like so you're out, you're still undefeated right on Monday, what the happened that Bella tore, let the champ will go that wasn't what happened cell now, there there's there's so much misinformation out there, and you know I I'm popular, but I'm not that popular and sell a lot to times. My story gets missed, told because I get spoken over by other people right and they don't hear. I say so. Here's what happened obviously so, prior to
me and Bellator Hector Neddy Eddie were the ones that left right. There were Hector Dumbarton yep at E L, L rose would have see both of them both the men What's happened in the light weight champ and they both got taken care pretty well. But if you, if you remember any situation, I don't remember this. He got an offer from the F C. Still under the matching period, Bella tore filters as we matched right and Inter of what was in the contract. It was matched right, but because Bella Torrez venue! Well, if you have pay per view well, we will too, but that's real life right right. That's it they've done to paper. You shows ever and they've never met any type of threshold, so you know they say imagine it doesn't say average member, they went to court over it and the one Eddie, had got the right to I'm sorry, he didn't when he. We somehow did like a one, more fight in Bellator and then went to the I don't know exactly what the fonality of that case was. But anyway
is when that happened. His his contract became public knowledge. Right and so a lot of UFC fighters were pissed because he they gave a whole bunch of money, and so when I was twelve and now I have my last fight in Bellator Guns under Khrushchev July 30th May 31st of twenty thirteen beat him up pretty good, and then I had a twelve month matching period, and so what was it? Custom made by the UFC Brass was that you need to get rid of your matching claws and we will make do an offer, but we will not make you an offer until that happens, get rid of your matching. Yes, how do you do that? Well, here here's how I went about doing it. I exist twelve months right the freaking, I'm not going to say over twelve months, so I'd call border I didn't say: hey Bjorn, I'm not going to resign. Please log is the guy was running belt or correct. Yeah and now you got fired had terrible reputation, but I never
a decent relationship with them. I never liked butted heads too bad, so everything is it Bjorn. Let me go, I'm not coming back and then so says it will. Bellator didn't want to re. Sign me. Well, that's, that's! Not true! At all, every day is Bjorn. Let me go Bjorn. Let me go because you I love challenges. What I love more than anything in the world is challenge myself. You look in my wrestling career, that's what it's all about! Taking the next best thing, every single time and so yeah. So, finally, in all this time, data in the just saying we want. We want the national make seven in the world or somewhere around there. Twelve and l- and so I remember I was going to asian food store- is going from Tom Kha Soup and Bjrk calls me said you released full full, you released, you can go now, but I appreciate that so Friday morning, Thursday night Friday morning, it's in November, sometime, maybe MID November, more they fax over the release, my management, faxes it to UFC headquarters and all sudden that afternoon,
there's a you know like a little scrum. Where was asking the questions Ben Askren way what just happened there right, because for the last you might see him. We were interested weren't your words arrested. Now I finally produce this full release Bellator, that I got and now they're not interested and so started wow. I just got caught in the middle of this and was there a reason given? Well so ok! So then Monday, so then I say f that I buy my so I bought a plane ticket to Vegas for Monday, so it's Friday that happens, they fucked, but I'm going to Vegas, not taking this shit. You know so Monday by plane, ticket to Vegas I fly out to Vegas to UFC headquarters. I met with Lorenzo Data, was on the little speaker phone dele and they offered me
the zoo for contract, but it would be confidential and I would have to fight one fight for the world series of fighting which is like. Well, that's bizarre yeah. It is and fight for the World Series a finding that relationship with the world. Here is what the worse. I don't. I don't know like a feeder organizations that time something yeah I mean I had a way yeah. This is Marlon. Ronnie's just engage you both those guys down from champs over there yeah see I I think their relationship is very hazy between the old World Series of fighting UFC, because there was also people want the other way right, Andre alarm. Ski gets. Dropped from the FC goes to world series. Anthony John then boom all these people, so they say one fight one fight world share. The fighting we will pay. Zuffa will pay you. Would you do one fight? I say let's eft up but okay, I said I don't think was gonna go for Paul, do it. So I leave and uh six hours later I got phone calls is the
deal is no longer available. We are not going to make you an offer yeah, so why and you have no idea why. Well I here's my guess. I've never got to sit face to face it and say what was your problem with me? Think, there's four things my mind number one. He You really like me stemming from the I called him out on the steroid thing. You know where he said it's impossible, and this is where I disagree. It is impossible to test all uscf, yes, I said: let's not true, you saw it it does it all over the world for all kinds of athletes right. You can do it. It's just expensive! but let's just call: what is your private business? You don't have to do drug testing, it's obviously they do it now. So we're doing now. You do it through usadas. You were totally right yeah. So I was correcting now, but that was you know when data is wrong. An argument and he's got this army that follows him and he said I'd rather, I think is quote was back and I'd rather watch flies. Fucked in badass can fight. You know, I think he said something like ambient
tags. Ben Askren. You go to sleep yeah there there's a few, so the personal attacks are right so that that's number one number two, my file, heading styles not highly attractive, but I also think that a little bit of fake news, because it we look at George Shape Here- is that can insistently Knowledge Macgregor's Trump him, but only a couple of times. But if you look consistent basis, George Saint Pierre is the number one draw of all time he heavily relied on takedowns and ground and pound. I mean he didn't have a finish in like five years or something. Let me say what my take is always been on you and that style is that it's important. And that it really really works yeah. Well we're able to do really works, and I've always said this. It was proven Sun Saturday night in this debate me chick friends, got a fight. Wrestling is most important part of me absolutely ability to take the fight to the ground. Obviously Steepe has a lot of other attributes. You took tremendous punches in that fight. I mean, I know you do
get a chance to watch it, but I saw some highlights the holy shit. I mean the first round. Was chaos mean Francis in Ghana is a terrifying I Anstey pay took the shots, use great movement, you striking of his own, but most importantly after awhile got his wrestling going and then once you got in got into the ground- and I didn't have any answers- he didn't know what to do. But what you been able to do to guys like Douglas Lima, who just fought Rory Mcdonald for the Bellator title really good fight course. Golf who is another fantastic fight who you know was beaten a lot of really top flight, guys you're able to use your wrestling and completely nullify all their striking an offense. That's a huge part of fighting fighting is not what's exciting, for people to watch fighting is what actually works and what you, I've been able to do time, and time again is take these guys who looked like world beaters, and completely nullify their offense taken to the ground and beat the shit out of him. That's huge, that's very, very important yeah! Absolutely so you know. So we can.
Back to the UFC thing and so yeah I mean when I started fighting right. It was just like hey go fight, I didn't really make coaching and so I did move till dukes until two hundred souk Rufus. Yes, until two thousand and ten, I think so- sort of no two thousand and eleven sorry that in Arizona I was coaching for Arizona State University. But when I moved there I know hey there's a lot of elite strikers in this gym. I said, but I'm never going to believe striker. But if no one can hit me, they can't beat me there not going to outlast that kind of crap on main they're not going to beat me if they can't knock me out. They're not going to be plain and simple, so my whole goal was: how do I not get hit but I don't need to be a great striker hitting people I just need to not get hit. If you get knocked me out, I'm going to eventually show on the ground and I'm going to beat your ass right, and so that was kind of my whole goal. When I got them, how do I not get knocked out right, and so you said, have you found a really good way to do that and it added a lot of longevity to Mycareer, where I wasn't taking damage that a lot of other people were taking a nap.
I think there's also a lot of other things to being a really high level, wrestler that you know. Besides, obviously, you can control where the fight happens right, but there's a lot of other things that high level wrestling provides us is that came from that world that other disciplines don't get a lot of competition weekly compete Thous using the times right. How to get our mind right. These wrestlers are just strong and there is a different strength. That is actually I got to go workout with charm. Girls last week is a min time. World champ and it's like you, forgot how strong wrestlers are like you grab nearly good God. This. Is like you know. I don't feel that for many people like grab him and Michael like everywhere, play. There's no worries weak very, very, right because of the wrestlers, like we've been in the system from you dress in the high school wrestling to call Justin will were under you know. Coaches in
have a very strict training plan understand how to put a training regimen together, where a lot of other martial arts don't have that kind of structured system. So I think there's a lot of advantages that we as wrestlers have when we come in mixed martial arts, and if I could add to that, the intention is pure. It's pure for competition, because there's no financial reward, there's not a bunch of people that are getting into wrestling because they want to get rich. It's a bunch of people that really want to prove that they are the best, and so you have so many top flight guys that incredibly mentally strong feeding off of each other, knowing that there it could be competing against each other and all almost no financial possibilities, except for coaching well yeah. I mean now so two thousand and eighteen to twenty two thousand and eight. When I was wrestling and then when I decide to make that jumped MA, there is alot better financial structure for senior level athletes. Now none of them are getting rich and there's only about a duck. In the making like a decent living right and so, which is
easy, there's thousands of wrestler exactly so. Your points mostly correct, but there are a handful of top United States athletes now who could do nothing wrestle where, when I was in two thousand and eight, when I was trained that wasn't even the case, I had to go do camps. I was coaching Missouri, so I was doing other things in addition to wrestling so like a top olympic athlete. What else would they do to make money will still like in two thousand and eight I was doing a lot of camps right and travel around the country. Do can't make money, coaches, big money that way so cool things that, like I wasn't just wake up in training every single day, but the athletes of today that you were saying now, that's what they're doing! That's it aging and yeah, but it's different things and I don't know, there's some don't have to say that just do it from a place where the getting the money, Jordan, Burt Cousin, James Green, for example. Sponsorships are slightly more lucrative than they were then there's something called regional training center system, which you know most made,
I'll just have one. That's a lot more lucrative any that that's fundraising, right, they're, not they're, not earning money, the the Rtc people go say: hey, rich guy. Would you like to fund this program that help us develop will be the left leads sure? Okay, right and then the United states us c has slightly more funding given to USA wrestling in the past. Well, it's the trash. The story of John Dupont mean that's literally. Why that whole? If people have seen that movie, what was that movie called Box, get Foxcatcher awful to crazy story of Dave and Mark Schultz and this, millionaire billionaire crazy guy who wound up, shooting Dave Schultz and This is weird guy that was running. This campaign is guys kind of got stock training at with this yeah, because I mean and that's ninety six when Jill got shot right in so that's twelve years prior to you know my olympic berth and and but then it's even worse, I mean these guys are literally making
nothing, and then then then, then we go back to argument amateurism in the Olympics is stupid, which was abolished like ninety two dream team was kind of totally abolished amateurism because those guys in that error that eighty four eight thousand eight hundred and ninety two now we're making nothing, and so when this guy John Dupont offers them money and stipends and places to live, they don't They have better option. It's freaking sad to be honest about it and then obviously, USA Wrestling sanctioned him because he gave us addressing a lot of money so yeah it was really bad thing, and so we're doing a lot better in two thousand and eighteen. Then we were ten years ago and way way better than we were doing twenty years ago. Yeah. The olympic thing where they try to treat the Olympics like it's an amateur sport event, it's a business, you capsule billions and billions of dollars off these athletes who get paid zero is to me it's disgusting. I think it's is this: relic of ancient thinking and These guys are using it to steal money from young ass. That's what I think. I think the other thing is theft
yeah, I I usually don't know who Mork was more evil. The Usoc are the I o c or the NCAA, because the NCAA runs right along on the same lines and I think both are pretty evil in both archaic and both need to be changed. If you get a ball, the Nc A and the I o c that be fantastic for athletes worldwide. It was specially when you look at the football teams that are getting literally billions and billions of dollars every year and these athletes are ruining their lives. I mean yes, football players that maybe play one two seasons. If there lucky they get their back blown out, their legs get blown out and then they never have an NFL career and meanwhile the university is made tons of. Tons of money and they make nothing yeah and it to make that even worse 'cause I actually had. I had a whole podcast about this argument with someone and to like that anymore on the same side of this, but to make the even worse, Oncf Lee joke! You can't even make money off your own image and likeness yeah. You have a Youtube channel, it's ripping and say that's crazy, so not only Will they not pay you anything which I think we
can debate and argue on that, but the fact that they can't make money so name only image and likeness. That's should be criminal for that to happen. Jimmy you were telling me about this right, like a guy got in trouble for having a Youtube channel where it was not punter for, like in a college football team or a kicker remember same number, and there was there was a wrestler from the University of the Universe Minnesota. He made a rap album and he had to either quit the wrestling team or donate all the money back or something like that? It's like rap, they're at Rep in wrestling. Have they have nothing to do with each other. The fact that he can't go make money off freaking Requ an album is like mind. Blowing it's disgusting cause you to be a kid from being industrious being a young guy was trying to find his way to the world to keep him from being successful and but those that kind of success like figuring out a way to make some money off of your name, doing rap. That could lead to all sorts
pass in life. Like he's he's learning as a young guy, like hey look, I could be industrious. I could go do this, I could be creative. I can go do that like this is what we we encourage ing people to do to take chances make money the idea that you're saying like somehow another this spoils his amateur athletic standing. It's just stupidity! I think it's disgusting it drives me. Nuts agreed it just drives me crazy. So we're back to your situation with the UFC, so the UFC says we're not interested in. You know, offer no offer so ballot or is released you so I add spent three months telling Bellator. Do you think you not claimed you do you feel like the US? You might have played away, they played her cell. Ok, so the reason stated doesn't, like me, number one number, two, my style ad, not not great right. Did you say something like keys or bald steroid id. So I do not the fact that you know after that went down that really torture, I'm, but you know that, but the
original one was he's lying about this that you thought of things, so that was that this December, the so those people who say me and Dana had beef prior to me, not an offer. Have you met him, yeah yeah and not talk to me. Never had okay at length conversations he's a great guy a lot. Well, the wrong impression of him. I mean I really love it yeah you and I have had different experiences. I'm sure we have, I don't feel like. I should be there with people of experience. Let me let you know the Dana. I know yeah. So that would be two three. I think. Obviously stealing a key piece away from Bellator was important to them. Then four, I think, They thought I really had the ability to be their champion and if someone can be a Bellator champion and make this transition directly do you have then be the UFC champion. Mm this when they're, when they're else is on spike. Now that belt or use that to say look we're the same. He was a champion here is a champion there, so I I think those four things are and I'm
I've never got sit down face to face the day in and say. Why was there no offer down? I've never got. You know like when at the palace, the champ, the champ, and you know I'm helping coach and more Tyrone was I I've had more five words a day in in passing, right and so it would be really interesting to sit down sit. What was tell me for real 'cause. I have my assumptions on what the deal was I don't really know, and then, if I have to number five number five is, I think he got the did that I would never be a yes man which I'm not going to be, never would be where Dana really kind of like the yes man champion. Musees got he's, got some heat with tire and he's got some heat with the pay, as we saw on Saturday night, and he didn't really struggles with the analogies that won't cater to what he wants to happen, while fighters very rare, our yes man done. That's bad nature of, a little bit yeah, you know, especially the really good ones, specially, as things start going well STAR going their way. They realize they're, the man I mean the US. If you're the guy was run
the division you're, the guy who running the division and you're not going take any from anybody yet, but that and you see as some these guys send right up the ranks and they do what John Jones started, having trouble with Dana right but didn't have. But until now Jones was having all day and looking at troubled everybody's. His problems, I think, had very little to do with Dana and more to do with his actions outside of the cage mean inside the octagon ease and the way he was promoted, he was promoted fantastic, but just crazy. Yeah John's crazy, John is John, is a babysitter. That means the baddest motherfucker at two hundred and five ever he just how anyone let him drive a car anymore when you got that much money is beyond me like paste to pay your the forty grand a year tackle and and have him drive you permanently like why he was driving his oak or that one is beyond Maine. Well, they didn't know until they bought him a Bentley and he wrapped around tree, but that's when that's when they should have known and then but
there was another one where he hit and that was at the hit and run was after that one up the hit and runs after that one, and then there was another one. We got pulled out, speeding it that he told the cop to go himself all decisions without even two he's a fucking wild. Do this? That's. Why he's so good? It's one of the reasons why he's absolute, but then you put you gotta, put safeguards in place right, like your make, how many million a year, multiple, please for sure you can't pay someone. Forty grand a drive you around this and you're you're preaching to the choir. I mean the bird I wish I could clone me and send me all to all the time lets me everything before I got a driver got a Cadillac Escalade out here, wherever you want to go where we going places baby we're going to have some fun, but no driving, no driving. No, no! We don't need driving. We got music, we got fun,
let's go! Thank God! I mean fears, yeah! Well, that's what you would have. If you know you had like you know it's, I don't know what he's doing on on that. I never been Albuquerque. I don't know yeah how is live in button a bloodless, yet baby sit, everybody got the UFC has five hundred fighters on its roster. I mean how many those guys are prone to wild behavior of taste, yeah yeah, most of them right yeah. I risk males at Finance board where you have, that has to be heard every single time the stepped up job yeah. But when you making millions of dollars you gotta, put safeguards against yourself yeah, but I think also, what may John so good is a self confidence and he probably like I got it. Fucked up before, but I got it now, so I'm really into sports psychology- and I will not someone write this book- 'cause no ones ever written it, but I think there's this uh. I called the hypocritical elite athlete so there's two sides to every coin:
and, if you're, a really elite athlete you need both sides of those corner. I'll give you great example, 'cause it's kind of what you're talking about. There's these guys or elite, prepares to eat right they sleep right. They train right. They do everything right right, but then, if one thing goes wrong. It messes with them right. If they don't get the right good, are way weight cuts bad. They they start panicking right and then the opposite side of the coin, there's these cowboys right and there is like I'm not going eat, right, I'm not going to sleep right, I'm not going to do anything right, but one time step in the cage, I'm uh my ass off and nothing's, is going to bother me right, and so you You need both sides, those coins to make it whole, and so you, not someone, ideally, who does everything right, but the same time. And when something goes wrong or their toe hurts or whatever they could just say. Well, it doesn't really matter I'm going to compete, anyways right, you want to both sides, those that's why a lot of the UFC fighters are more on the cowboy side of it like. Well, I'm not really going to do a lot of things right, but I'm just saying uh
my firearms fight, like cowboy my account, which is example of this yeah, the namesake of my argument, yeah yeah, that's point, and it is it's probably one of the more fascinating things about any form. A high stress, high level. Competition is there's no real guidelines of how to prepare your mind You know I mean everybody teaches you how to wrestle every teaches you how to kick box these. All these martial arts, schools, a technique, is Very few real, like rock solid program, yes, and of a how to how to manage your mind, absolutely like, like, I think you should be taught almost like in in in a step by step bases like hey, you get a flat tire. Do you pick your car or do you just go? This is what it is and hey. I could have been born in Ethiopia with no right. Could be living in coal, mine somewhere now I'm! This is nothing. This is a minor set.
No and so like I- I actually started going to graduate school for sports psychology. I got nine of the thirty six credits done and then I I actually got a scholarship to go further and you get paid for, but I was just I was traveling so much. That was two thousand seven a when I try to make the olympic team- and I was gone all the time and then once I was I was cool for a year I was just like there is no freaking way. I'm going to I'm not going back to school, I'm not going to sit in a classroom not going to freaking write papers, I'll still, study sport. Psych on my own right. Actually, every Monday I do get some called a mental Monday. I want my facebook pages and just people message me questions and I talk about the the last time because you're right there aren't enough people to talk about it and then Yes, it is actually it's come. It's been, has XSL called resi mindset and they have a training program for athletes minds because you're there's nothing out there. This website for this yeah. It's resting mindset, dot com, no kidding, that's great and there starting this. That will apply to everything. Well, they're starting explain, expand a different disciplines, but you're right. I think I think, there's the general principles of sports psych, which can kind of
go into any domain right and your your harbor six correct that every single individual different right and one of the like for me- I I'm I'm a think of right, I'm obsessive I'll do something over and over and over and over again right and so like when I was fourteen, I was at the Big national tournament and I was obsessed, in about who I'd have to wrestle and all the stuff and it wore me out mentally. I got my ass kicked right and my coat said hey. I was that person many many years ago and it helped me just talk about fishing right. That. Maybe I could I, if I don't think I don't want to think about what to do not one of those guys, because I think about too much obsessed and so ever since age, fifteen I've always taught myself to train myself to not think about the competition within, like you know, six hours right so maybe the day before I can think about it couple days for think about it, but like even when I'm in a lock room. I'm not thinking about my fight, my minds off of it, because if I'm not better understand what my strategy is going to be by six hours before and I haven't trained myself,
six hours before I right. I'm already like I got to get better friends who have no intention of telling me what to do: MMA, wise and just wanna bullshit backstage right, because it's really small He's me really call, because otherwise I obsessing and that's going to lead to some really negative stuff, like one thing is where, but people are the opposite, like the F off too much, he kind of got to bring it back to focus right right, you know another and sports a concept is, is CALL Erin. Do you want going into competition some people to get him amped up some people, most people, you gotta calm down quite a bit like, let's relax, look to execute because we need to end up. You know execute. So I think, there's a lot of these sports site concepts that crossover many different genres, but you're right now in trains you about it. I think it's a huge part of the sport and it's it's it's overlooked, because the sport is not
just and I think this is true with every sport sports- not just the movements that you make it's what's going on inside the machine who is the manager of the body is the mind and if the managers like poorly formed in structures all out of whack- and he you you have like whenever a problem, because top. You fall right into a pit. All these things should be addressed and you should develop. This mindset develop the the manager mindset said that I think at a young age. I think it's it's really critical yeah I totally agree and you, I think I think one interesting thing which I do nope. It's gonna happen a member or will see right. There's very few. People who came from a wrestling background, their head coaches of mma teams, right who came from this very, very structured environment of call dressing, it's like you go to. I want to remember my first training camp on to american top team in Florida, and I sure it's one thousand one hundred o'clock practice show up at eleven where's where's, everyone at right and then we started one thousand one hundred and forty five, like forty five minutes. Late and that's the next time like
well amazonian time at one thousand, one hundred and forty or show up at eleven, we say one thousand one hundred and forty five. I can show more sociable one, thirty, and then they started one thousand one hundred and twenty. You know like what the hell, where is in college, wrestling Dura minute late, you're going to get punched. The college wrestling right right at very structure or system, so I'm very curious to see the day where there, an MMA team that is very structured like a college wrestling team would be, I think, would be very effective towards performance for athletes in. But then again you are going to have is a different structure because call dresses are poor. Were you in a mma fighters who get rich and then say? Well, I don't wanna. Do it you're, saying right how you going to make right right there, the one paying your paycheck, so it does become an sting circumstance by if there was someone who ran a highly structured mixed, martial arts team, as structured as a college team. I think they would have a gigantic getting as I think the guys will get a lot better, a lot faster and I think you'd see
really interesting dynamic develop between the high level athletes in the coaches. Well, I think there still trying to trying to figure out what's the best way to coach fighters, and I think everybody's got their own way of doing it. You know Feroce Hobbies way is different than the way they do it at american top team, Matt Hume was doing different in the way do does it everybody's got their own way and the only way you could tell us how well the athletes compete. Yeah I mean that's the only way you really find out who's corrected, whose need who need to make it just yeah, and it's really hard in fighting, because I mean even your highest level camps. How many say Bella you see how how many high level mma fights to they have per year. Maybe thirty- and I think that be a lot for most these teams, ranked as the only get thirty sample sizes right where the college wrestling team you're going to have between everybody on the team. The all forty guys you to have at least a thousand matches every single minimum right and then obviously every event is scored by t every. Do me, the by team, every NCA Champions score by team to get very good indication of
what culture is doing, a write in web coaches, doing it wrong and then obviously the critic process culture. Doing right now get that the next crop of the best talent right. Do you have a very good idea of what's working what is not working more mma. I think we struggle to see it because the sample size isn't large enough to give us a really really direct correlation. No you. We were able to instigate your strategy in pretty much every single one of your mma fights only fight when you really struggle to J Harare face yeah. That was that was a close fight. What was different in that fight? Well, this that was of my first forty deuce. I was a J runs pretty and good too, but we don't take that away from. I think he was right number sixteen in the world or something at that point in time. So my if I do so. I think the biggest mistake I made I mean- and I was at that time- I'm too literally two years and I fighting career rent sell, might stop dressing completely. I did.
Do one wrestling practice. I moved to Dukes August for Wisconsin August. First start raining dukes August first, I fought three months later than October I literally did not do one wrestling practice. So what were you doing? I was just as striking like six times a week. I was doing a handful of times a week and then I was doing conditioning and after that fight well and then. Actually, I went to my brothers in New York at the time who my brother is also intended. Champ went to visit Thanksgiving he my ass. And wrestling like you know like I went cold turkey, so it's like. Ok, I don't need celebrity to be great rest say more, but I need I need to wrestle once a week twice a week with high level competition. So at that point time and for pretty the rest of my career, I would go to one of the local colleges once a week or twice a week just to keep my skills sharp, and so I think that was the biggest mistake, I made in the raw files that didn't wrestle at all prior to it, but Jerome was good who's. Also individual call
dressers v know nobody's he was doing also, but I think I, if I to pimp one thing that that would be it. Isn't it fascinating that a guy with his much wrestling experiences you have all you have to do is take some time off and everything degrades. Let's timing, it's all timing right! So you take three months off your I'm going to she. I amazing tale what do one practice and such like, but I was also will help me get the striking thing down, as I was doing- and this is what I think You actually made this point who the hell are you talking to about, wrestlers are willing to go environment. I was striking six to seven times a week. How much strikers going wrestle, six or seven times a real problem, none of 'em do they felt that they literally they refused to well. There was Francis Engano is training camp. When I talk to people outside afterwards, it's crazy. For everyone saying all my guys in tremendous shape, everything's, amazing and then afterwards I was like doesn't rain in the ground. But what he does the ground yeah I got all he wants to strike yeah. Well, you can
let him do that, can't you can't let him or he's gonna fight and the division. One wrestler yeah like how's. He going to do this. How how's it gonna house going to stand up somehow another magically stuff, all the takedowns, the train, that you have to train it yeah and well, and but you gotta train it, but then, even when people train it these striker the strikers, they don't want to do it right right, like I said when I go to Duke's when I started dukes and it went down to four times a week where we striking right by the beginning of six or seven times a sessions a week, I'm striking right, and so I'm immersed in that culture. I have to learn. You can't only doing six seven times a week right, but the strikers they want to do one wrestling practice a week to wrestling practice a week. Well, if you're here and there here, how are you going to catch them by doing one practice a week, it's freaking a possible you need to? I mean if, if I got to like being
charge of an MMA guys camp and I don't know I coach wrestling. I love coaching, the kids, I don't know if everyone ever want people. I would consider for someone consider high level, but you got immerse yourself. You will have to take three months and freaking wrestle every single day because Russell you got You have to build those skills, you're not going to you're, not going something well. Do it one time a week you are going to do it. I crew! I completely agree, and I think that it all depends on what the athlete bring to the table like some guys, like a little bit of wrestling and then maybe they need to work more on submissions JB. Some guys need to work more on the striking the get hit too much I mean it's it's every single fighter. Is it there's a different recipe and you have to yeah. What that recipe is and it's hard because it's like you only way you fuck and is how well they perform in competition and how many can't even get a chance to do that three year, three year, yeah, maybe yeah, and so that you know that's, that's that endless. So I'm not saying I'm not saying a striker has to do
sessions a week for three years straight, but I'm saying take three months. Take six my immerse yourself in that be obsessed. Be obsessed, learn those Gilles figure it out and then, after that it might be once a week twice a three, but then, when we start considering the the t fact is which I'm not totally sold on CTE yet because you don't get hit. I know you know this you're, the poster boy for wrestling martial art. If you really think yeah, I don't know for sure, but so I watch I watch concussion well as I actually finding my fight in April of twenty sixteen. I watch that shit, that's scary, ice part, two more times the rest of my career, so my crew is nineteen. More months I spot vice I didn't. I didn't do it just because you want to get it yeah. Felt as an add an unnecessary risk
There was a a recent study that came out just a few days ago. That said that it's repeated sub concussive hits analyzing c t e, not concussions yeah, so the, but the study that made me really question the c t phenomenon was they: they do that study where they stay a whole bunch of professional football players. There was like a hundred hundred percent like ninety nine percent have c right, but then they stay people who had played football for any length of time, yeah any length of time. It was like still like eighty percent of the people yeah it's like we'll have. I can't live my life in a bubble like are like how can eighty percent of people who never play football? That means american males what percentage of american males it's like got be. Eighty percent so tell me: seventy percent of Americans Washer LCD Ctr american males, like that's crazy, know that, but that's real come on really is what's happening? No, but you got you gotta. Think there's gotta be some kind of low threshold, because otherwise four
is down the road. If everybody played football and everyone who played football has c d e everyone to walk her dog there were a lot of people are walking around like that. That's what's going on or is it might be, the diet, coke? The we little, I think way more people have some form of brain damage. Then relearn, yes, yeah. I do well, I think, in the world martial arts. I know some any guy yeah, but let's talk about not martial arts. What do you, Marshall, just regular people, football players? I think football players, it's even worse, because you running your running at each other, yeah heads mean you watch football. I mean yeah damage. Those guys take is crazy once the UFC you'll see like a wild, Headkick care boom and football games. These guys are literally running at each other. I mean it's crazy. One teams run in this way the other team's run in that way and they slam into each other, and these these guys are to fifty three pounds that that impacted pong, the joy,
airing of your brain plus they have helmets on which allows them to be more confident clashing into each other. I think a percentage of those guys, but you think, but so I said so that one study said it was eighty percent of anyone who ever any level Football Freeman length of time right on like that yeah I e that, yes, like I mean if we take the american population at least eighty percent of american men play. Football at some point yeah I sell they have CD, so we're talking about like yeah, I gigantic population. I think there's levels a c d either I mean I think, yeah. I know you get to the point we like Joe Frazier. You could barely talk before a doctor
rest in peace, but then you, you also get to guys that are just like a little forgetful and don't know why or impulsive and don't know why you know I mean there's a lot of that yeah. There's a lot of weird stuff that comes in t e: I've studied it pretty extensively: okay and the more studies of red on it. The more of d gotten really disturbed! So do you think, there's a maybe just a low threshold for what they call C t E. What is also genes that certain people have? What was that gene? I'm a brownie Patrick talked about it, the I don't remember what his she's amazing idea and she was taught, king about some jeans, make you more susceptible for traumatic, brain injury than other ones like. If you have it, you many is more likely to develop c t, but then also and then so. The other thing that I would is out of curiosity to me when they do C these days, especially with their doom after death, with these football players right were so now, they're dying their pie, plate in the 60s seventies 80s that time period, steroid use
very, very high and drug use is also very high in that culture and sell and and alcohol mother of a two thousand and couldn't drugs. So it's like did those things contribute contribute. Is it you know? Is it like a mitigating factor, or is it like going to create this crew, easy storm of brain damage that you're going to freaking running into people like this. Then you're doing steroids, then you're freaky and a pack The beer then you're doing some cocaine like that. That can't be good for you. Right cannot be good for you can't be no, it can't be yeah yeah, especially the pills, a lot of them get caught. The pain pills you caught up on pain pills, that's a big one. We just found out a Tom Petty died from fucking pain, pills. My wife and I would have said that was that man he could have a sense of my wife and I both of Tom Petty's music. But how did? How is sixty six years old? He was still like, not so,
okay with himself that he was Jammin pills down his throat. You know that he didn't have a sense of. I have had great accomplishments. I've had a great life. You know I people around me. They love me yeah that you know I mean it's got to be it's sad, lonely thing when you're overdosing on pills, I would have to. Assume I would want. I mean I don't want to gas, but I would, I would imagine, he's in some kind of pain if it was freeze taking those opiates hip fracture was covering for will tell you something man, my friend from Amber from the? U of C she hurt her ankle recently she blew out her Achilles and she said that doctor immediately try to prescribe Oxycontin like get the out of here slick, yeah she's, like I'm, not taking that now, and we know why it happens. Man, doctors, just try to shove, pills down your throat yeah. It is it's a real common thing and if you have any sort of serious injury- and they put you on that stuff, one of things they put Tom Petty on was fentanyl and fentanyl. Is that shit? That's
king killing everyday math thread- motile math are very similar. No, not heroin. It's it's a extra yeah. It's an extremely potent opiate yeah! It's it's much more much more! than Heroin Heroin, many many hundreds of times more Podia, and so they give these people patches and then they're taking taken oxy too, and who knows what else might taken. I mean I I'm. I feel terrible for someone who has bad pain, like you know, from a broken hip or something like that. But Jesus Christ take the pain rather than death, zero But this shit, you could take Cbd, you could take Cbd, doesn't even have a psychoactive effect and as radical pain, reducing proper yeah yeah, and I and I I have the I don't- do drugs, but the fact that people are so actively prescribing the these heavy really heavy hard drugs to people killed. Weed is still illegal and I don't smoke weed, so I'm not even like for myself, but just for other p
people. Well, I've never found weed to be a pain, reliever. Really I've heard a lot of people say there are a lot of people do say that, just maybe I don't know, I'm one of those people that you're in pain, if you're in pain just been paying to select just just yeah it sucks so just relax. You know I mean I remember one time, though I got my knee operator and I had a a sealed, Rick reconstruction and they gave me one of those buttons in the house. Oh you press it. You get morphine and it was when they had my leg on this motion machine. It's so like right after surgery they trying to get your blood moving, and so there's a couple. Screws in there, and they take in my patella tendon cut it and put it inside and drilled it all in place and everything and then I'm sick, That's this thing's. Just it's just throbbing paint and they gave me this little button. I might but I'm like I'm in the hospital, I'm not going to overdose, but I remember
take it while this could be really fucking dangerous. If you had this in life like it was like a little button on your camping, just press it and you get a dose of, fifteen, but it was a wonderful feeling. I've only done it once that's why I was in the hospital, but I got it for that brief moment. I was like wow. This is an amazing feeling. Yeah feel like like you're floating through a cloud of love and just flying through the air. Like God, I went from being an exacerbating pain to so How do you feel then? So we got in this discussion without CD so, but now like. Ok, I think MMA is a terrible career path. Last of all time, as a professional, don't do it if he'd ever made prior to the right two different of of organization for like a couple people to pry the right career path for majority people probably not agree for path, but so you know how you feel about it. When you think that you I mean your office is saying that I'm on the fence, the you're saying I think a lot of people are getting C. T clearly are:
how do you feel about your being involved with excess like in my future? I could coach MMA, but I struggle with it because it's like, Well, should I really recommend this person to have a mayor? Should I not because are they going to end up fucked up and not be able to take care of that? kids are where I don't think you should ever recommend me to anybody. Ok, good. I usually doubt I don't think anybody should recommend, but I think some people is there: destiny yeah, there's a few people out there that they want to. I don't you should recommend skydiving to anybody either though you know they've created that I mean my friend. Andy stump is world holder on that set world finals and that's that this death they want. Did you read there? Is the book called uh something chasing Superman or Europa you about people like him and how it almost always ends up very poorly, because you need this big,
Russian, this bigger russian, this bigger russian. It's not big wave, surfers and the flying suit, and all this I was talking about the psychology behind it and how like it ends up poorly, very, very, very often, because these people need bigger, rushes and more challenges? And then they end up fucking themselves up. It only makes sense yeah. I would never encourage anyone to do that, but for him I mean he's a retired navy seal, and this is just another level of psychotic shit. We can do to fill his time with, but he's got a bunch of sponsors and he actually makes a living doing that. I would never recommend that I recommend skiing MIKE kids. Like skiing, I don't even like skiing. I go skiing with them. Every time it seems like it, hurts key, but no I've never gotten hurt, but I'm like fuck that every come up. Skiing, though I'm like don't get, hurt, don't get hurt, don't care who wouldn't get hurt, told her don't get hurt. I think, is Sonny bono Swat trees, one of the Kennedy Center tree right then maybe they was that could have been false flag now.
So we could have been right. Someone push him into the tree, yeah fuck. It took its key out with a sniper rifle right when he got too close to the woods yeah. I think that there's a lot of very, very dangerous careers sure, and I think, if you feel compelled to do the but no one? No one should be talking you into that, but I don't think anybody should stop. You like, I like the fact that boxing tests you know would never want to tell you know: Facilement Chanco, don't fight sure. I would never want to tell him don't fight, I want to see him fight, but what? If? What? If it gets proven without a shadow of a doubt that these things 'cause he CTE? Do you think the government is going to ban them? No, I don't think they can really, how could they be another going to band the domestic like spending everything they really do, they like banning things that cost them money or that cost people who donate to them money. You know the ban of the drugs is really tired to pharmaceutical drugs more than a year they're, not banning it, because they're trying to save us there,
getting it because someone is putting pressure on them to ban it or had put in the past and there nobody's banning skateboarding, no ones trying to ban Bmx ride those guys get fucked up. I mean I was watching this video the other day of those guys doing the ramp with a skateboard and the guy got to the top of the ramp and didn't catch it right and fell like one hundred feet awful, oh Jesus Christ. I mean they get beat the foot that that's another one. Where the damn book chasing soup, her being Superman and something having Superman Coding, Superman decoding superpowers called the Superman. So you I can watch the original x games when I was a kid I don't remember what year it is 90s at some point and uh. The ride, the Superman decoding the science of ultimate human forms, this this, the freaking fantastic book, yeah. I mean it's like it's possibly, I have some obsessive sports like, like, I said, I'm sure Steven Kotler, yeah that guys interesting yeah, but so, if you look like the original x game stuff, and then you go
like the exams. Today, our house is different world yeah, totally different events, so much more extreme because you there has to be this advanced advance, advanced advanced but then also in people getting EFT up. Yeah. You get to a certain point where you can only do so many flips in the air with your bike, apparently with their dog. Trying to go home today would do one rotation every go. This is crazy, but somebody comes wrong with two and then now they're doing three. Wasn't there. The movie about Tony HAWK was like the first one to seven hundred and twenty or something, but now take away more. Don't they yeah it's and they're going to be more every year and if you watch any of those parkour kids that are jumping from building to building and and we've had one of 'em in here who is his name James? Who. Find it. I don't remember that one dude, mostly your political ones. I think some of the people who are highly fascinating yeah
It's an interesting time. What will I get labeled all right, I know times are it's it would, but everybody is so quick to label people today such a strange time finger pointing and putting people in boxes Do it disingenuously it's more divisive, Pedia the alot of these leftists. They want to You know they want to say well, I'm trying to make people less racist, but what they're really doing their being very divisive, you know and like I would, I think you identify it- for Terry and I identify more as a libertarian and republican or Democrat, but yeah a lot of people say I'm yeah, alright or love trump. So much and it's well, I'm more libertarian than anything. You know, I think less Gov. Meant less invade invasion into our lives. But people want put you into a little box because you don't agree with what they're saying
it's a weird time for that and that that's what I think what you're saying about shaming they try to shame you and yeah. That's racist or shame, but you're not doing that if you're, pretending, someone's races when you know they're, not yeah or if you're pretending that someone is a sexist or homophobic or whatever, when you know that you just it did people are there d ignoring new wants yeah I am, and what to what they're really doing, also they're making they're making people afraid to speak their? signs right and really how, if you and I had a disagreement on something how we would come a common grounds by discussing it yeah I'd say: well, I think you're person? What do you believe you would say it is well. I don't agree with that, and this is why, and eventually we would talk get out, and maybe we still disagree, but we come to a common ground right yeah, but instead those people on the one side. There not saying that they're saying what you say: your sister sexist homophobic, your grand Nate, Nate Name, one right and then ended discussion. Then there's no discussion at all right, yeah they're trying to win yeah exactly they just send when they try to label you in and get the upper hand in hand yeah. I I think this
a real problem with people not being reasonable, and I think that you should be able to have conversations like I've had people of criticize me, like even person, talk like. Why would you have that? Guy on your show, which any guy, like Milo Yiannopoulos Perfect example, and I'm like well look what happened? We got to see how the guy thinks yeah. I mean all the all this weird deal with the issues that came up in his book deal falling apart in a lot of that had to do with conversations I had with them yeah it's like I what you've now you get a chance to see how the guy actually think I Something is anything wrong with the way things. I think it's he's a Provoca tour. I mean it's not how I think, but I think that everybody he has this perspective on who he is that is it saturated because of this public persona? He does have to be outrageous. So I think I think that the double is so big that they, I think, Alex Jones. Does it as well house where we create your well but okay, but it's it's a
My idea right is like yes, part of their persona is a show, is a show it's making it more extreme yeah, because they want to say that one thing, that's totally Epping craze hit on the head to headline somewhere right, and so they have these beliefs, but they kind of go beyond them, because it is a show yeah because they will make more money if they get more followers or more people clicking on articles. Are there videos or whatever right? So I think it is. But then you don't you go some alike. The brat Weinstein guy, I think he's fascinating yeah people calling him a racist, and you know he was strong liberal, but he's is progressive as a get season is far from a racist says you could ever get yeah yeah, there's there's. This need to label people well boxes out of showman in a lil Wayne. Yes, but also like he says some things that are pretty fucked up, like the sandy hook stuff saying that sandy hook was he's looking. Sing for conspiracies
everywhere everywhere he finds them someplace. So sometimes he's right exactly sometimes yeah, but the problem with looking for conspiracies everywhere is you're, going to you're going to make people feel terribly Yes, I mean if there was a article that I read about a guy who is a conspiracy theorist and till his son was killed in sandy hook, while people we're telling him that is so, wasn't killed and then some sort of a government actor and this guy was devastated. Of course, the people that are really the nutty conspiracy theory. So you spoken undercover still, he still undercover there's people out there that looks conspiracies yeah everything and it becomes a real problem because it muddies up the water, but I I think I think at the same time you really at least for me and I think, we've similar thought processes. You can't just take what made you made it tells you and say: well, I guess that's how it happened right.
So at ten in some situations, but in sandy hook you have dead, kids have people grieving. You have bodies autopsy reports, yeah it has yeah, but I you had guns, you had a mentally ill person who had access to these guns and if you take that same thought process an say, Stephen paddock in the LAS Vegas shooting. Well, we we still don't know how that turned out. The LAS Vegas shooting is complicated because we One guy did do that. Well, no, we don't you know that are coming out on this. The other thing, too, is other people and all that he might have gotten help from people, whether it's willingly or unwillingly, but or wittingly or unwittingly, but I don't think there was other people shooting. I think they've said that, so I don't know that's what the loudest conspiracies. You have to understand that you're never really going to know the real truth right. You have to keep it open mind and you say: ok well, this per and says this. What is this person say? What does this person say? Do these things check not with each other? It's like how many different Does it change the LAS Vegas Shootings Timeline right and then it was kind of weird that it went
way out of mainstream media, like also you heard about for a week, and then you didn't hear about it. I think that's a sign of the times. I think the new cycle, today's about ten hours yeah, but could do that. People would want answers. I mean that's the largest mass shooting in United States history. You think we'd want some more clear answer and what really happened and how it happened and why it happened. We never really got those, and I know, there's been a few new articles on it recently, and so maybe we find out more information, but it's in it's an incredibly confusing story, because the guy was clearly a psycho and clearly fucked up and clearly plan this out for a long time I mean he got hotel rooms overlooking music festivals in other places and like was planning out how to do this for a long time. He had a note. In his in his hotel room that had all the ballistics calculations, so he knew like, like bullet drop from x amount of yards, and he was,
okay, leading how to kill all these people yeah. He was on some weird anti depressants and anti site, not into anti anxiety medication, which does all kinds of weird to your head. There's a guy that was a problem. The fits of rage he was a calculated professional gambler, there's a lot of weird stuff with this guy yeah the fact that he accumulated these weapons over years. An maybe did it, knowing that he was going to do this, so you don't there's a whenever there's a mass shooting or anything, that's crazy. You have two things happen. One everybody wants an's two. Everybody forgets about it really quick, because some new shit happens in the news and if it wasn't your family that got shot it wasn't someone that you're closer that got shot. I know people that got shot there. You know people that I met them. I met people in Vegas that got shot there. I talked to them after was over. It was complete and total chaos and There's is complete and total chaos. You get all sorts of conflicting reports. People run
into other casinos, saying that there's a shooter because they ran out of that area, and so then people were calling in police reports. There's a shooter in the Monte Carlo, there's a shooter in this and so those things get reported, as fact when many times it's part of the confusion of a chaotic mass shooting. Like that Vegas event, I don't know what happened other than the fact This one guy definitely killed a bunch of people, but whether or not someone was helping him or whether or not there was other people involved, or I think there still invested yeah, but so I guess my greater point. There would be that if you're an intelligent individual. You can't just take what CBS tells you to be complete fact. Right you, you go. Do some investigation yourself? You try to read from different sources and then hey sandy hook. I think, there's like a ninety nine point. Nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine percent chance that sandy hook was real right. Is there some crazy in the
If it is a small chance that did happen sure right, but I think I think there is, I think it's very unlikely in this survey. Zero percent zero send hook didn't happen. Yeah so looked into a pretty day yeah. But you know it's just sad to me and your dad. You know you, you know you the idea of your kid going to school, getting school getting shot up by some psychopath. You, imagine if someone was saying that that was fake yeah after your kids dead would be frustrated infuriated? You wouldn't even know where to turn, and these that's actually happening to these p bone near the getting labeled as as frauds and people are emailing them, and you know saying how could you do this? Your your defrauding them and people you're apart of the Illuminati or yeah so well, I think so. I think there's obviously those people who are on right the way one side of it. So there's this. So if, if you go a spectrum from a ride home, there's the American he's drinking diet, coke in the frozen pizza and listening ever CBS, says Brian, and then the total opposite spectrum. There's the group that thinks everything.
One thing that ever happens in America is a plan conspiracy by the new world order right. So those are two ends of the spectrum right now fall anywhere in the middle there, but I thought so. I think, as it tells individual, we look at situations independently and say: well, there's some sketchy things there not many things there, that's probably true right kind of independently think about stuff by ourselves, and that's that's how I do it, and so you know that's a wise way to approach it and uh. I think see yes or NBC, or do you know any name, your new source, the run by people and they weren't there? They only have access to a certain amount of information, and sometimes they get bad information and sometimes they don't necessarily know I'd know how much of it is a part of some grand conspiracy, rather than how much of is a part of the chaos of these moments. The lack of information and people drawing conclusions and then also witnesses on the scene, people on the scene of something that's crazy. They give all sorts of weird recounts and they're just their field
the adrenaline they don't know how to handle the situation. People. You know people don't handle chaotic events very well yeah, but I don't think the earth is flat. That's very good for you. What do you? What do you possibly believe in that might be crazy? Can I take a pill This is not here right fast, no worries, man. I wonder if there's something wrong with my bladder, but you can hold it yeah. Do you think I've trained it yeah I mean sure just that guy is going to try to shoot himself to see the flatters in a couple of days, so you guys shoot himself up into space dumb, fart. Second, James Kingston was that guy by James Kingston. Thank you. Sorry. James. Yeah, it's done bar. There is dunbars number brother. You can only keep one hundred and fifty people in your brain at any time. Look at that fucking pig. Sure we're looking at a picture for the audio folks of James Kingston on the top of this tower- and
I don't know how many stories he's up there, but it's insane because below him- and I mean war way below him- our sky scrapers, that's probably to buy or something right. Do you think that dumb bars? No member could apply to other things besides people like websites or shore numbers of instructions yeah yeah yeah yeah. I think so. You know I think it it apply, is to too many things it applies. I just think names names of people, I'm drug ling, I think I'm getting like. I have a uh flowing pot like Shane, Burgos and Calvin Cater were fighting this weekend and I called Calvin cater Chris cater after we want, even though I'm a fan of his like he wanted. I wanted Calvin, dumb Cunt, I think I'm running out of space in my head for names, so my apologies to Calvin cater I'm running out of names and we're talking about uh.
Dunbar's number. How you can only keep so many people in your brain? Ok, my brains, overflowed. I don't have any hard drive space left, I didn't know so I thought it was. Is that the as you can only like, keep track of one hundred and fifty people like what's going on in their relationships and that kind of stuff you only have so much room in your hard drive space yeah, tribal societies like you, our brains are sort of designed to keep track of one hundred and fifty people, that's how we evolved and then I'll the last. You know x, amount of one hundred years. Now, all sudden, you have to keep track of many many multiples of that, especially if you're someone like you are, I mean that runs into so many people who you you. You meet on a regular basis, going to keep those people all your brain, but is it is it so? I guess I haven't read that british much is it that
if he does know their names and faces or is it that you know like what's going on in their life, I think you're supposed to be able to track them like have a some sort of a it? Whether it's intimate or personal relationship with these people know them yeah yeah, it's like there's only something like, especially if you think about commentating on fights. I have to pay attention to these guys and what they're doing in their career and there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds at five hundred fighters. Now five hundred fighters that's active and then many even get new. They come in old guys, go away. I still keep them all in my head: hey! What's Sean Sherk up to these days, they're all still in the head, it's like there's, not there's only so much room and after awhile you'll wonder you like wow. Where are these people going? I have found that obviously with sad like college and it's like. You know it's good 'cause. You see him and it's like no times past right, but it's like I
If I know, if I was living in two minutes away, would probably best friend still right, but now I get to see you once a year twice a year. Maybe I can't keep up Do it do it super challenging? I totally agree now max and I run the wrestling Academy is my brother. We have three in Wisconsin and it's like this follows my first wife. Full time worked at one, and so now I'm really immersed in the one academy, whereas I was kind of loosely keeping track of all three, but now so I'm kind of totally immersed in the one. I find it a lot harder to keep track of. What's going on at the other two, where I was kind of bed right, before when I wasn't so immersed in one yeah, I can only imagine Eddie. Bravo, one hundred schools, that's crazy! There's 110Th Planet Jiu, Jitsu's worldwide, like how and he can't keep track on Kenny. I don't know I don't know I would have to ask him. I know he travels to all of 'em. He travels constantly traveling already traveled. All it travels constantly is doing seminars at all of my guys, always traveling once it is
it is you do like one time a year for each facility or something I don't know, it's good question with only the Columbia he's going to he's going to be probably be once a year. Yeah he's actually got one in three years: Singapore now yeah yeah. He is it in Singapore. When I was there enough one of my fight this year it was maybe the maybe the may fight you think he was out there doing his tent semoran. Now that now they have a tenth planet program at evolve is crazy. Evolve is supposed to be amazing facility. I've heard too many things I mean. The nicest mma facility I've ever been to, and so they they actually just open their fourth location. Just in Singapore, which Singapore is city state right, six million people in on a really really small island, but some of their son, their academies are only a mile or two apart. Like there not far apart, but the population density is such that you know the list and they start classes at. I think it's six hundred am, and they end classes at one thousand. One hundred pm
well. You can freaking stop in anytime of day and there will be a class, that's full with movie. Buy or digits whatever you name it it'll be going on. That's great, readable, yeah. Well, Manhattan is kind of like that in a lot of ways, right, Manhattan's how many Jews the schools are in Manhattan. I mean Marcel as hundreds but yeah of Brian there ones handle go down. One by cells, get huge one yeah yeah. There's a lot right, there I mean handles is huge. The place is enormous, hundreds and hundreds of students. I thought that I thought I was thousands. Could big? Does a someone someone told me hands or the over thousand students in the main New York city location? And I think it's you know it ain't cheap 'cause you gotta to pay for rent and so they're, probably paying a couple hundred bucks dollars a month of of evolve is I think, three hundred fifty dollars a month, wow but obviously so Singapore is one of the most wealthy countries on the planet. So you have to take that new
temperature. When the lives there has a a decent amount of wealth and you know it, they they spend it different and Singapore is a fascinating country. If you I I get a you know, I was there fifteen times, or whatever. So I got kind of immersive culture and then reading books about Lee Kuan Yew, the guy who started the country, and so you know there was a whole much of those asian countries that got independence in the 1950s and 60s and sing why Blue was founded in nineteen sixty five, it could be off by one year. There may be, but you know a lot of Countries are not doing super well, economically and Singapore's like this is freaking standout country, whose, like top five world per person wealth and why doing so much better, and so this is me from an outsider's perspective. So really do a lot of it's kind of like self tracking right and so every month a bunch of your check comes out. To you know like we pay taxes right bunch of those other check, but so they can spend it
is fasting. They spend their money on three things. It goes within this fund, right, education, health care and housing, and so if you want cheaper of any one of those, if you want the cheapest form of it right, it's very government subsidized and it comes out of your fund right. So only a little bit of money comes out. If you want the nicest healthcare or the This is housing and ice. Then it's only a tiny percent government subsidized right, so the more expensive the stuff gets, whether it's education or housing or healthcare, the less subsidized it gets in the cheaper, it gets the more subsidizing gets, and so everyone kind of you know they pay they pay into this fund server. Has this personal fund that they can use, and then you know into those three things, and so I think a lot of people have, I think they feel like they have more troller their lives and you obviously it is very strict ' relations and laws, but from what I've seen and I've spent a lot of time there. Everyone seems pretty happy. That's interesting, yeah,
that's an interesting way to I mean I don't think, there's anyone good way to government to govern people, and I mean I think we have a pretty good system over here, but it's obviously filled with bureaucratic bullshit and regulation weight too much government there's way too many people doing stupid jobs and again pay too much of them, and I mean it's. The like you know find a chase down medical marijuana in twenty seventeen trying to stop legal marijuana and like why the who's paying you Do this like? Why you? Why you doing that doesn't make any sense, not what our tax dollars should be going towards. You know it's funny when you go all way back, I think about it. So we talk about that process of who's, keeping them from doing this, and you have the pharmaceuticals with weed, which I think is true. You know what a funny one I think about his John Mccain and mixed martial. Who is sponsoring John Mccain Budweiser, who is like the main advertiser boxing? It's like you can
not make it argument that boxing safer than MA. You can't freaking. Do it like it's impossible possible impossible, but John Mccain's over here, getting paid by bud is there in saying MMA is awful. Let's ban it at the same time he's promoting boxing. Essentially it's freaking mind blowing well in his defense. It was MA from along time ago and it yeah. It wasn't really the same as them may now and he's turned the corner, and now he supports him. I meant, but also you've got bud. Why bud light or sponsors now of MMA, so it's like, but that's a real problem with politicians dirty dirty there So many dirty politicians, I don't know what percentage is, but it's hot. Ninety, seven, it's probably it's probably a fucking high. You know what crazy shit that what crazy conspiracy do you believe in so the one that got me started really like in dependently thing for myself was nine hundred and eleven, which I think that was that was for a lot of people
via yeah. What would what do you think about nine eleven? Well, I know I know I don't know all the answers, but I know with give an explanation. I don't believe what give an explanation, the one that came. What's the damn report, that they wrote the next report now I wasn't one was was yeah. Well nest is the one who did the report on Tower seven I'm saying now. What was the other report that came out with right away, anyway. So I had my body live right by the airport and he played loose change for me and I said you were out of your GD mine You are insane man and then I start thinking well that doesn't maybe maybe maybe I should think about it. You know that it was an inside job. Not totally I mean so I think obviously, the planes flew into the buildings for sure, there's no doubt about that, but that may be. The there was in clings include
that that was going to happen and that not enough was done to stop it. I think this this one. This is another thing where you have a gigantic tragedy and because of a gigantic tragedy, there's a lot of people that draw these conclusions based on witness testimony and things that are happening, but I think you have to realize that anytime there's some something that happens. People start looking for all these different, correlating factors right, hey look, you know. Well, there was a local tests that were being done. There was they were looking at out for planes that were potentially going to fly into building. They knew this was going to happen in advance. But if you talk anybody there is in intelligence there dealing with that shit every day, just one day, some thing happens, but there's always warnings about terrorist attacks. There always warnings about things happen a lot of times these warnings get toward like the fb.
I stopped that last week there was one there was one in San Francisco. They had bombs in this top emerging secure area, and this is happened many times now when it doesn't when they don't catch it and it goes through. Then people start thinking Oh, there was some sort of conspiracy. They allowed these planes to fly into buildings, uh a missile hit the Pentagon and people. Look there the video came out of that last week, but I might have been fake news, the pentagram There is a video of the pending something hitting the Pentagon, which looks like a missile and not an airplane, but I don't believe it was you. I was like this interesting. I've never seen this deal before and obviously there's no video. Evidence of what hit the Pentagon well. There's a video of something. I know there was one camera thing or security camera video that was released, but what they did have is all sorts of pizza, pieces of aircraft all over the fucking lawn mean in a blown up building and a plane, that's missing and all the people dead like I'm going to guess it was a plane yeah. You know I just I think people
look for conspiracies and everything 'cause, it's exciting. What that means of stimulating about it. There is, but and obviously be. I know that you don't believe that everything we're told is that Ruth right away right I mean if we go to something like Gulf of Tonkin Incident right, I mean perfect, improving beef false or the fat like the banana republics right where Dole asked us to go. Take out one of their. Taters because they were going to nationalize all the banana plants in that country. I mean those things have been now proven to be totally faxable that the United States government went and did that stuff, so the fact the and you know in 1960s or 70s those things were reported, the opposite right. So we can. Obviously the everything that we've been reported is truth. Well, there's definitely been conspiracies that have been put together and execute it, and these conspiracies have greatly affected the american people, the Gulf of Tonkin's, a perfect example another one that they were planning on was operation, Northwoods, operation n
this was one that they were planning on blowing up a drone jetliner blaming it on the Cubans were going to arm wooden friendlies and have them attack Guantanamo Bay they're, going to sacrifice american troops american lives and they're going to do this in order to get people to be excited about a war with Cuba, and this is a real thing that was signed by the Joint Chiefs of staff. It was released by the Freedom of Information ACT and it was vetoed by Kennedy. So we know that there, where people Elise in nineteen, sixty two they were planning on like this yeah. So that's a real thing to in the idea that that just went away and no one does that anymore, this crazy I'd. I don't. I don't believe that I think there's there's most certainly evil people in all for sectors of life. Yes, absolutely now, so it's good to have an open mind, but the there's also a lot of fucking conspiracy loons. It look for nigga consumed with it. That's that's the issues they get consumed with nothing that I've been, hold this true, which is obviously the one part of the spectrum and
to that end is crazy. Also yeah. There's people out there that think this satellites are fake and a thing the moon landing was not real and that the earth is flat. As once, why I just shake my head like the moon, landing ones, my favorite really. I got balls deep in that for years. I was complete. So you think I did not go to the moon. No, I don't. I don't think that anymore, but I I we, but I think now I think I don't know, but I do I think that it is one of the more fascinating conspiracies that between one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine and one thousand nine hundred and seventy two they had seven hundred and seventy seven attempts some successful when they went to the APOLLO. Thirteen was the one that they didn't apparently make it they had to come back, but that the only time in history that a human being he's been more than four hundred miles above the earth surface. All this a station missions, all the space shuttle missions and all that stuff is, is within our it. Yeah it's low did some very low. They went to sixty thousand miles out and back in a deep space, but they had never even flown a chicken out
there and see if it comes back alive like we really do it yeah, I'm not into this this space travel, and so I mean they did a couple of fly- bites look at the went around the moon early before they landed on the moon, but other than that without unknown then drones like what we have on Mars and things like that. We've never really sent a living thing out through the magnetosphere through the Van Allen radiation belts into deep space. Have it you know, I mean. There's all these possibilities of solar flares and anything that would have killed them instantly and they just did that and then haven't been able to do that. Since one thousand nine hundred and seventy two that's the one way I've never looked into the moon landing. I think it's kind of goofy right. Well, it's weird! It's a weird one. Why have we never gone back? It's been Surely our technology is far superior to what it was in nineteen sixty nine right, the technology is far superior except that they're not using that technology for manned space travel into. You know deep space like that yeah. I want to move it. So it's like the our technology
in all these other areas is superior, but they haven't really worked towards that because they haven't been funded. So the big issue is in many ways: it's money right, it's how much money. Is there and going to the moon, and it's also very risky to send him humans out there. We were talking about manned missions to Mars now, which may or may not take place by two thousand and thirty they're talking about doing that, but its way cheaper in the for to send robots out there yeah, I risk human lives. It is very retro the moon right and if it were about the Mars yeah yeah, the rovers, the rovers on Mars or most that that's the most interesting, because there sending these really high resolution photos of the surface of Mars and they're running tests and checking for biological it's really really interesting stuff, but between sixty nine and seventy two when they did all this stuff. I mean: there's the technology, back then it was nothing compared to what they have now in terms of calculations and computers, and- and it's also there was
unquestionably some stuff that whether it was images or video. That was faked and, I think, really yeah. I have no idea, I said never looked into this at all. Gemini fifteen is the big one, because there's a photo of Michael Collins, it show with him in deep space and they use it as a press release saying that he was on a spacewalk when it was real. An image of him from a test run where there was all this stuff in the background and he was on his harness and they just blacked out the background and try to sell. It is him being in space, cv, vine that might Michael Collins for what he was looking at, how much it cost to send somebody to space. So it's insane seven, not at these seventy million. For a product as a NASA astronaut to fly on a russian shuttle, well, there's all diesels. Private guy
is trying to sell tickets to places that mean yeah. There is always a try and do it musk. Obviously, but that's not the case, that's just that's just lower earth orbit. That's that's still inside four hundred mile number trying to go anywhere now. Well, they might in the Future Branson. Well, I think that's also, I think it's all lower through, but but but they are talking about future visits to the moon and to Mars, but a lot of times I feel like when they say that you know George Bush Senior said that they were going to go to the back to the moon again in like fucking, one was at one thousand nine hundred and ninety, or whenever that was people have always said, we're going to go back to the moon, but we haven't been back since one thousand nine hundred and seventy two that mean that we never went no but Denick? It's weird: when you find out that Wernher VON Braun was a fucking Nazi. Who warned of from the guy who was the head of NASA. He was the guy organized the moon landings and he was the head rocket guy he was that guy was a legit Nazi, like he's wanted by
the Simon Wiesenthal Center said that he was alive today. They would prosecute him for crimes against humanity. They would hang the five slowest workers everyday info. His Berlin Rocket factory yeah no one hundred percent mean that's what they did the what they did was they took. This thing was called operation paper, clip where, when we won world war two they took all that uh nazi scientists and they seek. We brought him over to America and they did on the down low so that no one would think like hey. Why do we have a guy named were? VON Braun, running the American space Program because the nazi scientists or insanely advanced. So the question is like well Were they really Nazis or with a scientist that were under the boot of the Nazi administration? Well, I don't know I mean I'm not around that yeah, but I do know that these are the people that were head engineers and the people that designed it. Werner VON Braun himself
was saying how impossible it was years before they did the moon landing in years before operation paperclip, that it was impossible to go to the moon or how ridiculously impossible would be, but technology advanced from then to when one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine happened to when they did it. I stopped and that we never went to the moon, because I really don't know what the fuck I'm talking about and that's that's part of the understanding. These conspiracies is hard. You have to what you have to really know how my do I know about rocketry. How much do I know about aerospace, Z, zero yeah. So if I'm running around saying I don't you know, I don't believe people went to the moon. What is it based on it's based mostly on ignorance, speculation and the excited excited feeling that comes with a trying to uncover conspiracy. Sure, but they I think you do have to be a little bit, discerning, what you hear and then let it is frustrating and that's where a lot of conspiracy guys they they think they know more than that yeah do because a e
you have to come to the realization that you're probably never going to know the real answer. With all these things very likely, I mean some of them come out many many many. Many years later, we turn the gulf of again right now or operation Northwoods. Many years later it comes out, but you know there's a good good, that I'll never know the truth on stuff. I read a lot about. I think the moon landing. It's way more likely that we went to the moon, but that some of the footage is fake, and I think they probably did that because it's incredibly to called the film things on the moon, I think they film some stuff in test, runs and then try to pass that. Should I thrive on, they didn't have it back. They had the Cameras had in the center of their chest. I think they've to take a selfie on the moon. The kidnap, Justin chatting it. You have to take your shoes off and then you would die yeah. They didn't have a camera that you can put in front of. You may have the clicker button. I could have with their big loves on the they know they put the thing out and they like it and then boom snapchat. I find the moon. Well, that's what they said. The world was that they did it right.
Remotely that's how they captured the video of the lunar module, leaving the surface of the moon and panned up and watched it go that they did all that remotely it's all this I'm squarely footage ever see the video of them jump around looks like they're on trample, yes in a like they're, just bouncing in the air like well what the fuck is that how come the physics are different in different it's like in some of the some of the fights like APOLLO, eleven they're, barely getting off the ground, along with their like they're walking, but the candle do yeah like that. Well, there's ones like that and then there's also ones where they fall down. It looks like they're getting yanked up by wires. I think it's entirely possible that some of that stuff was fake, but I don't it's way more likely that they actually went to the moon. Then they didn't but way sexier to think that they fake the whole thing. It's fun fun to think they take the whole thing that everybody was quite it about it and you know Neil Armstrong, strong. This real cryptic speech on the 25th anniversary of the mission saying that you know
hidden truths, that what is the exact quote that he said so the great truth that could be real revealed, removing some the truth. Hidden layers like he was he was given away. It was real cryptic. It was like what he's see if you can find it yeah play the of might give it away. Well, it seems if you were conspiracy theory, this would give you a rock hard boner. Listen to this. I made a public appearance next generation of taxpayers. We have no, no just play the whole thing, so you don't confuse everybody in nineteen. Ninety four Neil Armstrong made a rare public appearance and held back tears as he spoke. These brief cryptic remarks before the next generation of taxpayers as they toured the.
Today we have with us a group of students, among America's best to you. We say we have only comply. Did the beginning. We leave you much that is I'm done there are great ideas: undiscovered breakthroughs available to those you can remove one of truths, protective layers. What the fuck does that mean? I mean what, you supposed to say YO. I went to the moon Bitch, not supposed to say Bro through the baby, give it away truth protective layers like I don't even understand what that means they cut. The press conference is one of the more fascinating things if you watch the press conference again, I was balls deep in this stuff. For years, the press com
and from nineteen sixty nine when they return from the moon, is one of the most cryptic weird things. You'll ever see these guys look like they do just stole something and they're being questioned. It's it's! It's I've, never seen a video where people look like they're, more full of shit, that video of the press conference from nineteen sixty nine, weird bad. It's weird they're Judy, looking nervous, I they're getting away with something and they might have done it. They might have and forced to say some things that they didn't want to say and that could be part of it. Absolutely they could have done it, but there's a lot of weirdness with the moon landing. It's it's! If you wanted to have like a conspiracy that rap your head around. It's exciting it's one of the best ones. They have Bennett who benefits from it. The United States government did because it the military superiority over the Russians and we were able to do that also, next administration people just flat out full,
yet well yeah I mean they were just lying to people left and right back. That's government, though yeah, but even more so than because one check there was no media for me, yeah, nothing that would expose them for this, and this day if indeed they would air it on tv once in nineteen, sixty nine that you never see it again and let you watch it on film. There is no Youtube, we can go back and watch the not on trampolines video, that's favorite one! You watch that you know what in the is happening there, these kids are bouncing up in the air, how you doing that like they never did. If you were watch APOLLO eleven when they were moving around on the surface of the moon, it just they're moving in slow motion and then you go to whatever was like APOLLO, fourteen or fifteen when they were doing the trampoline thing they just fucking flying through the air Have you seen it? I know I I've, never gotten the moon thing, the fire I is a huge and it doctor feet are hidden. Look at this watch. This
bounce up in the air. It's like they're on some sort of wireless. They could be being yanked up into the air yeah like what the fuck are. They do and they're playing play falling down, and it's very weird could have been that they were really on the moon and these guys are cowboys in Yahoo's and they wanted to buy a house around. Are you opposed to your? post, those videos post those videos. Back in the day, I had a debate on Penn Jillette's radio show with a guy who is an astronomer and he wasn't willing to admit a lot of stuff. That was a fact like the fact that Werner VON Braun was a Nazi, and why is the flag? Look so still there. Well, the flag had a wire first of all on the top of it that stiffen it to make it, but there's videos flag, moving in a non existent breeze, which is why two and they tried, make some logical explanations for why the flag could be moving in a vacuum, and some of it makes sense, but some of it doesn't like the
wires. One is weird: if you watch them fall down like go to that one right. There Jamie like, if you it's like, sometimes they're falling down and when they're falling down a looks like they get yanked back up, but I think it might not have been real footage. What they might have done is use some test footage like right. There, Jamie right there. Let it go. I go home boy falls down and then looks like. He is yanked back up, look as well. He did that was standing up yeah. What is this? That's not in standing up, you can set up like the right but you're on the moon, so you realize you're in one six earths gravity, but there's there's nothing to make him go like this exact. You can't get up without exact. Now we go back to MMA, because that's what these freaking folkstyle wrestling the next generation of ever make it once, and you can turn your base to get up. You can't look at there's no and on the ground how's he gonna get them amazing. Yanked up. He would have super abs. He would have to be like the because, okay, maybe a breakdancer, maybe a break dad.
You can't get up without putting a base down. Yeah yeah was really weird. I guess, there's no watch it again. Watch him get yanked up, he's got little pieces played in reverse, almost does yeah. It almost does yeah that he couldn't stand up with, but the thing falls down right afterwards wasn't reversed. I think it's in highly possible that some of the footage was bullshit, but it doesn't they didn't go to the moon It means it over zealous people in that he only oppress what on the ground there too right yeah this truly this watch. So eastern, like that's ridiculous, you can do and what is right for his dad's left lets up, but he just goes straight out of the year. That's fake, but I've never been in one six is gravity, neither of you. They will do it. That's right you that that says we never went to the moon. I saw that it was fake. No, the, but the video is real. That's from television! Ok, the video that guy standing up like that
He got help some yeah. Well, you can't up like that very well. He could have on wires. It could have been that they were using that to simulate what it would be like, as they definitely film a lot of simulations they get a lot of. Because they wanted to prepare the astronauts it's in. Really possible that some of those simulations gotten passed off as being an actual video of them on the moon, Sir yeah one of or the fake. The whole thing I was in there I'm going to what I think I think folks wrestling is the next. That's the next GEN this of MMA right. What's next yeah like that guy standing up people, don't because, if you watch the Leroy fight, it was is incredibly frustrating to watch for me because Lima, was literally just laying on his back and guard. You know, and guard is almost nonexistent. Existent in MMA now. Well, unless you're, Brian Ortega, okay, there's a there's a like you guys kind, yeah right, I think those, but those guys are like you, like your
wrestling is so highly effective in MMA some people could say you can't get by just with wrestling. Well. Well, hey! I don't just read so I'm a black belt jujitsu right yeah, but you use a lot of rest yeah primary yeah. I mean it's not that Brian or take it can box to. We could do a lot of other things right. Yes, good, solid striker, but his guard is so dangerous. It's just another level of danger supposed to most MMA fighters, including lame yeah, and so you know people actually going back to their base right, which is been. It's been a no no forever. Anime, you don't go back to base 'cause. You expose your back right, but then again you know what percentage of two are sitting in guard, actually gets emissions from the guard. Now at the the numbers really small, really well so you're going to have find out now. Okay, like this, is so fresh and so in in the Lima fight. Rory winds first two rounds, it's competitive, but he wins pretty clearly, but the leg kicks or stay I never been kicked as hard by anyone does Douglas. He kicked me one time in the leg I freaking the market for a week- really, oh, my god
so hard. He check so hard, so hard and so third round is this accumulation of leg kicks and also Rory's legs really aft out from getting kicked a handful of times right now he's doing that low Kathleen? Yes, William checking account all over the sea. Roar Royster art turned you this one and you know stay checking it. So we mister is taken. It control the fight, the I think he wins the third round my opinion fourth round in beginning. He like kick him once and Roy. Pause, Downey Hopsin amount and starts beating up like holy crap. This fight might be over and and so recovered. But then the fifth round Roy goes right. Like add single, like double egg, like immediate we're talking. First ten seconds, en going in there. I think he might give finish this round. I mean he can barely walk. Look at his leg right, and so we you taken down ten sek s into the round. He Playstation Guard for four minutes fifty seconds and you like at some point. Is he going to try to get up because he has to
if you can step in and lands where two more kicks again taking down the fights likely over while you know, but he refuses to turn to his base, because this is anti jujitsu. You shouldn't turn your base in Jujitsu Clyde is back choked yeah it Joey at you're losing right what else gonna do well. He never hi, to sweep from me never tried, try to submit a modified modify sweeping a couple times, but so at this I mean even at I, I thought was two two rounds. Two rounds right right use the fifth round. You know you gotta, try. Get up at some point. So was around that did it for Rory, so you He won four thousand nine hundred and forty six on two scorecards in four thousand, eight hundred and forty seven on one. So what it was three to one so then, even more even more reason to get up right losing by that much but yeah lemur go so that's one thing: hey! Maybe Lima thinks he won or something I don't know but yeah. So what did you? The people are struggling with this fact that in modern day, Anna you're going to have to try to get up, because,
Guard is no longer that affective and you just get punched in the face over and over and over again and that's terrible. What are your feelings on going to half guard and like going for an underlying same side and try it? But it's not, you know, uh. Like me as a as a top guy, I would rather be in half guard then guard. I'm gonna land a lot of damage from half guard and then you're, also, if you're in half or your me, trying to work in your yourself, tired, you're, very unlikely to sleep me run so I think, have cars better than full guard, but I think I think eventually, where people are have to it too is there going to actually get up. You don't have to get up and put your feet on someone's hips and kicking them. Is no longer a great solution. It works every once in awhile, but it's not like you can do that. Every single yeah, it's pretty rare, so dear, So everybody so aware of it. Yeah so bottom bottom and top folks out. Red I think, is the next genesis in MMA where people are really going to have to have a deep understanding, because once you do get taken down or
once you get it take down and there's some you know: Yo Romero is the perfect example. He never did Folkstyle wrestling in America right he's very, very elite, freestyle wrestler, but he gets his takedowns and he can only stay on top for fifteen seconds right. It's like you did all that work to get the guy on the ground. Ladies leather, back up what what? What was the point right? What was the point of it? Well, he smashes some guys in the ground like Machida when he got him down on the ground. He some of them and put him away. He's he's a freak athlete to that He's it's hard to say: hey do what he does, because like no one's built like that right that guys, the he has the weirdest body, I've ever seen. Really. Why? Because he looks like he's two hundred and thirty pounds, anyways one hundred and eighty five anyways in it's like how the fuck is that one hundred and eighty five, I always look at him like I don't even understand it like. Where is the weight going and you would think he's well as guys it's on PD's butt looking, but then, when you look at him like he won old title in ninety eight hundred and ninety nine somewhere in there he looks the same.
It's the same at age, eighteen or nineteen aliens, incredible 'cause, then you think will VSOP dies. It had to be prior to age. Eighteen 'cause, he looks the same well. What are you thoughts on like corral? In you know the Korean is yeah, but they used to call him the experiment and his pal. Answer tiny. You know parents like five thousand five seven and then he sick, What whatever the he is, a gorilla again, man yeah and I always wonder like one day in the future, whether it's eight five years from now or thirty years from now they're going to be genetically manipulated people crazy right. We watched it. Chris yeah yeah, it is to all you know you had a car again yeah, and that was fast thing that pretty much is I mean cemented the Russian that anti doping program, every single state sponsored doping doping program, everybody for every out for everybody, everybody is crazy and it's like you had. That they were likely cheating you know, but then someone who competed against them. May
that's a tough pill to swallow. You feel I mean now it's like what she I guess I should be one way or the other, but to that you're, a leg down and like go in anime. Now I I it it. May I do everyone's cheating for sure right, so I'm gonna fight, em the cheating or not like the pride days. It was essentially sanction that was like they tell like hey. You know when this contract it says you can do stare, How does one FC handle that so they don't do drug testing yet yeah I mean I should be fine. I've been pushing Did you sell? You know in my time there and their thing is that a lot of these countries- it's not Evelyn in Indonesia are Minella or wherever well just kill find out just get the out here with that? That's my take. That's not nice, yeah yeah thing that that there is only as Joe Rogan saying that get the out a cell there, but there I know you thought you've. You've talked a couple times for you, but their way in program when it's. Yes,
I think it's fantastic and I think every every MMA organization should do it at high level. One you explain it yeah. So it's so you do hydration and you do weight scale same time. So you can't cut wait out right right, it depends get on the scale moments later. Like you go in the bathroom, you pissed, they test the specific gravity you go get on the scale right, So since everyone moved up one weight class, everyone of their champions, bumped up a weight class. Like over there. I fight when five, but you know it's essential welter. They they even call welterweight weight because it's the same thing. Cut any water where they just it, so they just they they everyday low, so I was about to champion- are still which, what mother weight champion they just move. The weight class is different, so there's the day of the fight today before the fight she is for the fight. If you make the two days before the fight, if you make both the weight and the hydration, you do not to wait test or hydration test unless that you're you're clear, so you may get both those days.
Because you do not gonna be there's not gonna fluctuate money for our to listen. If you can figure out how to cheat the, I can't figure out how some of the past, which she detests, because when they first I said well, how is someone going to cheat on this or how could someone cheat? You know what it's like they look, they watch a pig. Yes, you know you can't have like a whizzinator on or anything. So I don't. I don't know how you achieve. I don't think you can. I don't think you can. I don't think you can't so yeah. So it's fantastic because like fight week, then, instead of making this an so what I would fight one hundred and seventy, I would be one hundred and eighty three to one hundred and eighty five to start my water weight cut out, cut the water weight to one hundred and seventy or one hundred and seventy wanted title or non title, and then I would hydrate back up so now I don't have to do the dehydration process, I'm literally the exact same size I was prior and you know, media obligations during week are obviously a lot easier because I'm not worried about cutting my weight or I'm not feeling miserable or whatever yeah. It's a lot safer, and then so someone misses some Obviously there find the same as in America. If you miss what you're fine. If
you miss hydration, so Joe your one hundred and eighty five and you wait in one eight five, but you're dehydrated, you didn't make it right. You have to get hydrated and so wait! So if you miss you made it so it's the last day you have made it used to keep drinking until you piss hydrated, then, whatever you way, there is what you weigh. So that was the parameters when it comes the hydration or not hydration. It's the it's the same skill use for C job in America. At the beginning, the college wrestling season or high school. You deserve every test, a I, I might mess up a zero by think. It's one point: twenty five is this specific which no the same. They use for hydrated, not hedges in wrestling in America to anything under that you're dehydrated, no you're good. So you want to be able, as a one point, zero zero, zero, zero zero is water. Okay. So you want to be close to that right, and so there is like you do have to just you have to drink some water major. How much are you pass it out? You're, probably hydrated, but if you know if there
have been a couple of times like so in the early days they did they did tests. The first two days are actually just testing to see where you were at the there was the one that counted, you know it's like if you, if you ate a bunch of like meat or something you might show up as the hybrid, even though you that's what you walk around every in today day, she had to make sure you just a lot of water. So it's coming out nice and clear. That's a interesting way of doing it and I think that's a great idea, because I think that is one of the biggest problems. Animated image you RIAA Hall and Vitor Belfort got cancelled last week because you're I haul was like literally having seizures on his way to the way and crazy right. It's fucking insane. It is- and I think it's one of the worst parts of me because I think mmm should be about who's slickest in being able to deceive the weight. Yes, I mean it should be yours versus your point skilled you. Both the same size, the whole the whole point of it is the open the way if the fights same size. Yes, that's the whole point of it yes, and so why people would fight.
Back against the system that one of these using this beyond me because listen, the most miserable part of my weight cut. I'm fine dieting! That's all good right, but when you gotta cut that last twelve one thousand three hundred and fourteen pounds of water weight out its miserable everybody knows this miserable and it affects your performance. The next day. Yeah I mean my my thought, processes effects them more effects me, maybe that's just me being pie. Right now. Why is that because you're a wrestling background and I'm not right- or maybe it's just me, smite myself up to my thought- rises on. Everything is anything it goes wrong will affect my opponent more than it affect me let's go, buy a more stable. I can deal with shit. That goes wrong. Most people affect them, and so maybe that's just me telling myself that, but that makes me feel
about it. Well, a lot of people feel that way about weight, cutting they like weight cutting because they think that the other guy is not going to be able to handle it as well make him go through some adversity and then the next day he's going to be troubled. Sure exactly. But I think if you take that process away, I think it makes media obligations a lot easier. So it makes people lot health and yeah. I mean how many fights have you just from a business standpoint? How many fights have we had canceled this year because of the weight thing I mean How much is quite a few. Did it change your performance? How, physically? How would you feel the next day? I think I thought you don't honestly for me. I know they said those studies that you don't really fully hydrated. I believe it was thirty six to forty eight hours after man. I've always felt nine, and so I so when I graduate college the weight class in the United States for the deliberate stuff was one hundred and sixty three old weigh, roughly one hundred and seventy five on a day to day basis, and then water cut down to one hundred and sixty three and then I was fighting one hundred and seventy, I would be sit between one eight hundred one
five and water cut down to one hundred and seventy. So my water weight cut was very, very similar every single time and I was disciplined in that manner. I want. I want to be flushed so my goal is actually to get down to my target: wait six weeks prior to competition right, so I'm walking around one hundred and eighty three to one hundred and eighty five six weeks prior. So I'm the same exact person every single day, whereas I think the part that a lot of these people F up and it's because they're not disciplined enough is they try to descend while they're training right? So you know, maybe I get to one hundred and ninety five, which is that's a small bump. Some of these guys are the discipline they get way way way way over weight right and sell. During that last six weeks in the last couple weeks, they're trying to bring them, the way down right. So, in my mind, there's two ways lose is what you can diet and lose body weight right, fat mass, whatever and then there's the water weight where were sweating and we're taking that out of us right does the two ways, and so I think a lot of guys-
and I you know, I don't know if you are cut which, but I know so that I did for me- was in college and in the summers I get really fat and then I'd bring my way down the fall. You feel it when you're, not when you lose the more calories are taking. It's like this weird feeling in your body, and you feel like shit all the time and I think a lot, fighters, are doing that really close to when they're fighting as a now the water we cut makes you feel terrible, and now cutting everything out, calorically also, is that, like a double whammy, that's what I think about it. There's another thing that benefits wrestlers in the wrestlers seem to take pride in being the push through discomfort, the more miserable you are, the more you just fucking bite down office and deal with it. What you get used to doing that: all through camps all through college in high school you're, always Dehydrated you're always losing weight. Well, I mean the college dressing. That's not the way cutting is weight that bad anymore, so they had the system and people are starting to change ninety seven, I think couple died and
but you know the names to the same thing as one of see that sort of a russian toes once you do it to be a season, find your minimum weight, but I think more, they think what people, if I it's a one hour when see, is so if you're dual meat is at one o'clock, everybody weighs in at noon right so what people have found out. You can't cut way you can't wait. We wrestle like shit so the problem with fighting doing that, though right injuries yeah. So that's what he wants. The best, but in call addressing when you come up. The discomfort thing part of that is that you know when you go college wrestling program. Again, it's very structured. You can't skip right. You have to be there every single day right on time, and then it's like you, forty forty black belt, jeep, black belts, not even just black belt, like world class nineteen to twenty three in their physical prime fight each other every single day and see you get used to this grind dealing with people battling people discomfort every single day of you know a lot of it. He also deal with injuries like you know, I chill so to talk about a lot that hate and I was talk to my kids.
Listen. The national tournament for NCA is March 15th through 17th, and you cannot guarantee me you're going healthy on that date. Cannot guarantee teammate year be not sick. On that date, you're gonna have to compete March, 15th to Seventy, the matter. What if you want a world, a a national title and so wrestlers get used to this? Cried? Where e? Just don't see that in other sports yeah, I think, that that aspect of wrestling is one of the biggest tools that they take into the octagon, the mental toughness and ability to. I mean the grind: it's again: it's it's a badge of honor in wrestling to be able and the grind it's not really in kick boxing or in more tire, any other sport. Well then, I really forced to I mean how many, how many kick by sooner or Jiu Jitsu What's your name where there's literally forty black belt, I mean it's been it's been borne out through high school wrestling. You got all these national term to stay terms you find out who the best are the best of the best get recruited. They go to these
institutions to train with the other best of the best of the best known you know, and then, and then, in addition to that, the other, the the post collegiate guys who try to make the world teams in olympic teams there stick. Turn on trains. You you have this, like melting pot of freaking, really great their train with each other. Every single day for five to you, don't put plus five years of you, hello, world championships right yeah. There also seems to be like a much more systematic approach to training PO and a lot more drilling yeah. I know and a lot of judges to schools like us, so they are barred from the guard here. We the arm. Okay, I under here my lead to make my leg. I live for up. Okay, you practiced everybody get together. The japanese media saying it around a few times saying like I'll go. Did you two classes sometimes and the literally go over to techniques you drill it twice and then the last wrestler classes, just people Roland five minutes, yeah five,
I've been a goes. Maybe a drives me insane Joe, because I come this wrestling background and then I also like sports psych in the study of high performance is lying. That's what I love yeah! I love. I love study. People are the best in their field at whatever they do, and we know without a shadow of a doubt. Just saying go for five minutes is not the most effective way to train someone who does not happen so wrestling there's a whole bunch of you could do some. You might do matches some. You might do a thirty minute. Some days. You might do groups of three woman. It goes some days. You might do situations. I start on the single leg. I started a high crotch. I sent a friend lock right, so there's all these different sin does that we might try. I mean if I'm coaching my academy right and we're working on it. We we do offer had boxer. We call me at the Disney go both armpits and bounce and go for John that We don't just say: okay, now go five minute, the closest, how many, how many tries do they going to get it going in the Mets position, they're, throwing a maybe one maybe two, but essentially most people use. You say: go for five minutes. They're, not disciplined enough to
in cells. Do new skills. They revert to whatever they do best right and it is do it over and over and over and over again right, So if I want a kid to be good at a frat headlock which, if you're there's a lot of high level. You need a good for headlock period factual. You have to have it, I'm going to put him in there fifty times in that crack. This he's going to get it over and over and over and over, and maybe the next day it's single lights and then maybe next day it's double legs right. Yeah and there may be some days you say: go for ten minutes. Go wrestle right, 'cause! You want to change it a bit but saying go for five. Every single day is very much not the most effective way to do it, and it's so in Insanely frustrating for me to have that happen at almost every Jiu Jitsu school on the planet. Eddie Bravo is talked about this a lot and one of the things that he says that You just you so fun to role that people just want to get to the rolling part real quick. I don't care what they want. He could Freaking care Joe. I want them in my tell me all kinds of stuff. I said I I run in prayer.
Yes, I went to the Olympics. I want to live trophies yeah your at my school because you want to learn how to do the best number to be the best job in nearly the I don't care what you like. I don't care what you like Sundays, every once, awhile, hey, you guys a play game. I let's play a game right every once in awhile, just to keep it fun, just keep a fun right! Yeah you want! Yes, let's do that, every every once in awhile, okay, I'll indulge you, but most the time your here and so you know we don't look for our for our young, that we really push our young kids too hard, but like special loads up to about high school guys. You're telling me you want to be a state champion, you're telling me you want to go to college. You tell me all these things you wanted too. I know what it takes to get there. I've there myself, I've seen many other people achieve those things, and so you and there's a lot of you know, it's really funny. 'cause people choose in this. Even mma man, the life people choose what they value right now. Just give you a simple example. I got this. I got this one cubed listen to show right now. Cuz, I know he loves you
Is there a like if one of my kids shut up, not all of them, but it's probably know who you are he's gotta know who I'm talking about he he goes freaking hard, just boom grow find grind just I couldn't. I couldn't ask for a kid to work harder, Joe, but when I start teaching technique He tunes me out and then we go to national tournament any places, but he gets. He gets scored on a whole bunch by the technique. We're just drilling and then I say: hey bud. You just tune me out the last three weeks. We were just drilling that thing and you got your ass kicked by it, and so I love the fact that you go hard, but you need to also value the technique. Right, There are some people who value the technique too much and they always technique, and then, when it comes, is going hard. They don't go hard enough right because in wrestling or in any in any venture. You want take in life. There's not just one way to be successful. You need a bunch of different attributes to be successful, and so
if you overvalue one or another, and you devalue other things- you're not going to be as successful as you could. You might still be successful, but you're not going to reach the pinnacle because you're not put your. Often the right situation, it's funny, because in a lot of ways it's like what you were talking about earlier, the two sides of the coin of a fighter being away. I'll person who doesn't care the cowboy and then the other guy who's like super systematic everything, is controlled. Yeah you I have to have everything and the fighters that have those really strong attributes just have to be aware that those attribute They are strengthened even further by technique, yeah one hundred sentence, and so again it's both is a quantum another. One would be the call beginner's mind and then know what all right. When you, when you come to practice, you need to have a beginner's mind. I mean yeah, but I got to work out with three or four time. World champion will be change Org girls last week, and he was asking me questions. It's like this guy really cared about learning from every possible source
and he's already he's already at the pinnacle, still trying to learn interesting thing to Dominic Cruz said during the broadcast about steep Ameo chick that Steepe. We went to alliance in May was asking everybody every you have to yeah. But then, when you go into a competition, You can have the same mindset. Thinking I don't know. I need to ask right, and so like kids, who kids, you have just the beginners mind, dub their great in practice, and they go in Imagine I culture, which I do hear what you do. Would you like to wrestle wrestle you know, but then kids are coming. Text like, I know it all is very unhealthy mindset. Also 'cause. You know it's great when you compete it's great when you compete, so you got you gotta balance, both those things right like you can't have just one 'cause if you ride no at all, I'm a badass, oh that's great for competition, but you come into practice you're, going to stop your learning now when you are coaching kids, how much time. If any, do you spend on mindset?
Well, every my facebook every Monday do this mental Monday and then I repeat, repeat repeated or something fairly similar to the kids in practice, but I also think it's a lot I think competition is where you get your really really good teachable moments, because that's when kids care, the most and so like, get out when he loses because he didn't want yeah, because it will look at look at this. This is a great example yeah I said with I. I did this by deprive us of this fourth and fifth grader their brothers and and like five weeks in a row, you're doing this wrong. You doing this wrong you're doing this wrong. You're doing this wrong. They don't want to listen right. Then they do they have a match last week. They do it wrong. It didn't cost in the match, but it almost cost in the match, and now I can say every single time. I see you doing this wrong. I can say it remember that time in that match, when you put it back because you did it wrong and you refuse to listen to me, so I think that matches create great teachable moments. You know like hey, remember when you wilted under the pressure, because you weren't tough enough well, you need to practice a little harder, so you get used to that pressure.
Member, when the referee made a bad call and you flipped out because he made it. CALL Ann. They didn't think about. Well, I still dress dresses match right, so there could be all these. These all the teachable moments within competition, where you can say point to something very clearly and say: well, look at this, and see how this affected you and see how you have been more successful. So I think from mental aspect is a lot more on one on one basis and sometimes I'll use it in front of the whole team. I don't like really picking on people. Every once in awhile I will, but so I think that I do. This. Competition provides a lot of teachable moments for athletes to see Well am I stronger here would only work on because we again we can't you can't say: one mental aspect makes a guy successful. It's this conglom creation of many many many mental aspects that will make you highly successful. Now, when you're coaching, whether it's coaching, wrestlers or MMA fighter collection, movie, theaters anymore, none zero
okay, I I help a couple buddies, but I don't you don't consider it and really just help out. So we could say just say when you coach wrestle yeah, do you do you concert, create it all on strength and conditioning, or is it from the wrestling that you get most of conditioning? So we only got you know an hour and a half three or four times a week, and so we don't do large changing. I know Iraq specially with the older they recommended do some on their own. You know for a college program for high. School program. We're getting him money through Saturday, maybe twice a day, possibly obviously were and do that. But you know we're an academy. You know we're kind of. Can we get him three or four times a week, so it doesn't trump. We need to do in that short time window. How do you balance it out, though, like how do you know how much strength and conditioning to do versus how much technique and skill work I mean at the call? the level are we talking about her 'cause? We do not. We do know straight conditioning and I reckon
Kids are their own and you know it if I had twelve hours a week with them. I would do that, but we can we don't. We don't have a bill that you. I mean, I think I think it's important. I think it's really important. I don't think it tries, I don't think of Trump's, especially knowledge and then, if kids wrestle really hard against each other in Cal. Had that one saying like wrestling is the best strength conditioning already said something if you read so really hard against each other. You can develop those things. It's like, I think, like people when when I grab people are squeeze people they're, like oh, my god, I've never felt anything like it and I think that comes it doesn't come. If you put me in a weight room, I can do nothing abnormal. I am not abnormally strong in any exercise. I'm actually like on how individual calcium I'm significant less strong than most people right, but then, when they estimated holy shit. I never felt anything like that and I think it's because a lot of those things that I do You are very, very, very wrestling specific, an I developed.
Strange, because when I grab some more practic Freaking grab as hard as I can. When I squeeze them, I squeeze him as hard as I can, and so now, from doing that, thousands of times I've developed that squeezer that strength. So I think strength is important, but I don't think it Trump's doing other stuff and if I had all the time in the world and these kids don't have to go to high school or middle school. I put them through some, but you know we don't have that luxury What did you do when you were fighting in MMA? How much did you devote to strengthen getting twice a week cash and It may be three sometimes what kind of stuff so I had a personal trainer since I moved to Milwaukee actually and then I actually help the moment but Crossfit Gym and it wouldn't be specifically Crossfit workouts, but that type of work, nothing slow. One due in three sets to ten and then to set a you know: nothin slow, like that. Potentially you know one one or two days in my two like a slower start and then, but you know, I think, fighting you knew.
To be very highly active? You know you need to be in really good shape need to move a lot of things really fast, so kind of Crossett type stuff, I think, is prob. The right direction to go and now when I go back to college programs besides, like the heavyweights that in season stuff for college programs is mostly higher pay stuff, which I think is very relevant to both dressing and fight, So what did you do when you're saying like you doing like Crossfit style workout, so we doing like Kettlebells box jumps? Well everything me just as to what I said that I just meant that we know we are moving at a high pace through a lot of stuff. You know it will be like he would tell me: hey. Do the distance discipleship do this, do that right to that no What about like your diet and nutrition and supplements things on this? I have never been that much into nutrition. Ok, I saw that. I don't ok, I was fat. When I was a little kid right play too much! at age eleven. I said I'd only fat anymore, so I went from one hundred and thirty pounds. One hundred pounds in Tampa
thirty pounds. Eleven is sixth grade create six when you're one hundred pounds. That's a lot of weight that thirty percent of your body battleshit everything and you're wrestling into yeah, and I you know I was. I was having some success because when you're fatter there's not many people to compete against right right, so anyways I lost thirty pounds exercise like I stopped drinking soda and it had this. I'll hold less this stuff. I just kind of discipline at eleven yeah. I know- and that's that's so now. When I look at kids, I think I think the mental maturity is huge in long term. Success being able to make like see the future and make decisions on one I want to do at that young age so lost thirty, and so now I've slowly started like e reader do some lot of stuff by it looks like sodas gross. I haven't drank a soda in forever. I you know what their crush fast food I cut out fast food- I don't I don't. I haven't eaten fast food in twenty years. I mean it's just disgusting, you know, and so like I eat,
generally healthy. My wife and I cook at home a lot. We make really healthy food, and so, but I don't take any supplements, o no multi vitamins, nothing nothing. So you get all your nutrients from your food and I just figured like so I tried a couple supplements in college. I never I never felt anything from them like I didn't feel any different. You know, and so on like. I know that I didn't feel anything why why my angle take that I don't need to take it and then so then, obviously came like this Anti Pd D crusader by chance and by chance it's like now I really can't take anything is if I go take something and I pop hot, because these idiots are putting something in the supplement should be there, I'm going to the total asshole, so I literally didn't even take protein. I mean it took nothing. Yeah, that's crazy. So did you make sure that you ate the proper amount of vegetables, green leafy vegetables and food and scrapped?
I mean you know like it's like healthy food, like read in salads in right. Of course, you know I'm not eating cake and ice cream and bright said, and that kind of stuff we're in Hell. The food at my house, you know, but I'm not measuring the grams of this or grams of that, or so I re I think one of my- and this has been proven by science- that you only a certain amount of time every single day to have a high amount of mental focus on stuff, and so I think my training is more important than focusing on nutrition and stuff, and so I want really like really zone in really high level focus when I'm training and stuff, and so I think I worry but also said They'Ll- take my focus away from that right, right or wrong. That's kind of how I thought about it and that's a smart way to approach it and it never really affected me. I mean Lee said that you know even went to the supplements in college. I never really felt them at all, so the right law, if I I don't feel
Why would I do it? You know it's kind of ironic, though, that you were an anti drug crusader and you went to the one place it doesn't drug test. I know right, it really hurt. It hurt me kind of crazy, but they there is, you know, and it is if you look at so we talked about like Singapore being so fantastic and I'm a really high gdp, a lot of the countries over there, Indonesia Minella, you know they die Manila Philippines, they don't have huge high gdp is right. I mean that they're not super wealthy countries, and so we think about you know how much it costs to buy a lot of the steroids that are readily available in America, they're just not as available, and so I think they do have a point. And if you look at their athletes, there's not a lot of athletes that look like you. Romero not yellow rose, probably not using. Like I pointed out earlier, while he's tested, clean except one step was tainted supplement, but It proved that it was a tainted supplement. So when you look at their athletes, maybe except few of the russian ones, they look pretty.
Normal, like it's probably unlikely that they're using for my for fewer a russian ones there from Russia. They can't help it. It's like part of the culture. They cannot crazy, yeah that one Russian, the one russian guy that I fought in April of sixteen. He was Freaking enormous, and you know the other thing yeah. I think a lot of Emma Mae people are using some the type of my gosh, I'm blaming what gives you insurance PPO Epo that type of stuff, because if you want to call dressage how tired people get in seven minutes and then by twenty five minutes and you're not going to get tired like that's, not normal. Well, people have definitely tested after that in the UFC many miles, yeah, there's agatino Russia, yeah crazy, so more people are using that, and I think, if you you know yeah, I don't have any conclusive evidence. But if you look at when you sort of started and then how somebody's fool fell down straight down, their bodies look different than they look
different their company, I mean Johnny Hendricks would be one that comes to mind. I mean what's his freaking record, since you saw a very good I'll, tell you that much and also need can make weight and you know it Remember is Ann Arbor, so obviously I watched Johnny because he was I couldn't stand Johnny. He beat me over seventeen, and then I tried wrestling myself so we're different. He was one hundred and sixty five hours, one hundred and seventy four, and I wanted him for the all star classic and I called the people who put on it that I wanna wrestle him and they turned the match down. So I've kinda, like to get that one back, and I never got to get it back when I was seventeen, so I've been following giant pretty closely if you watched Johnny like a Condit fight prior to that he gets so tired in like two rounds right and we just exhausted, exhausted and then also he's going these five round fights like how you gonna get tired that exhausted two routes, and not even for five. Shining like what's going on here I mean in his defense. I don't got any proof team takedown. They implemented a pretty fantastic,
program over there, I mean they spent a lot of money on it. That was the whole thing where they were paying him, but then they wanted fifty percent of his earnings. I got the same offer right out of college. Did you yeah? We both graduated seven? How does that work? I felt like I was betting as myself They pay you one hundred thousand dollars a year for seven years. They got fifty percent of your career earnings, and I said my thought was well if I ever make it really big, I'm going to make a million dollars a fight and I'm going to pay him back in one fight. You know like it would be like hedging. Your bet against yourself and I don't ever bet against myself yeah but for them. I I get it too. It's like they have to have some sort of a reason to put out that says when it's a big bat, whether or not you're gonna be able to be a success story. So if you think you suck it's good to take that bet, you they got an Obama, make it dog com. Okay would make it a little bit of money. Yeah, it's a good bet. It doesn't seem like the best strategy. It doesn't seem it's it's interesting and I think I there's probably somewhere in there with you know. I know a few minutes where you go pick out. This pretty proven that high level college,
Those are going to make really damn good fighters that that's pretty proven self going to try to find a couple every year, spend some money on them and then getting a percentage of their earnings. It's probably a pretty. I don't see a safe bet for the people putting out the money, but it take down. Take a hike, Jake Rosholt, who is an amazing wrestler for every everything he just in transition great to fighting right. He was good, but he wasn't great and it was like for as good of a wrestlers who was priorities can be a little bit. Yeah. What do you think is the factor like if you had to look at it on the wrestler 'cause, there's, no outliers like that, like there you know like, and so when we talk about how good Jake right still made the UFC. He still won some fight, so it wasn't a bad fighter, but he's a three time, NCA Champ. So you expect him hey help. I go challenge for UFC title. So I know in his case I don't know what the factor was there's not a lot of outliers like that where it so there are really high level wrestler and they don't have any success MA. That's really unique! You don't see it a lot,
yeah. It's it's interesting, like I've looked at it from striking from if you be like really high level kickboxers, some of a style that would readily translate to mma and some more fantastic boxes, like maybe Peter hurts example or Nesto who support. I wouldn't really think they would translate that well to MA, whereas Mirko Crowe COP, who might have in like a slight notch below them in terms of kickboxing, translates perfectly to to make. You saw explosive and quick, and I would want decent takedown offense to develop for awhile developed it, but the thing about Mirko was unbelievable power and speed, and he could just close that since quickly in black, and I think that is a difference, but I mean that in a guy who's like a methodic all set things up, yeah those guys didn't do as well. The translates well to get to conduct it taken down to Holly what what would you think would be like the stuff
it's it's different guys. You don't want other things benefits US wrestlers is the fact that g people are stuck on doing jujitsu that due to weigh right and strikers are stuck on striking when we mma. We know we can't win a match just by wrestling right. So we know we know I got gotta add striking. I guess I going to add you and I'm open to that idea right open those ideas that have to add those things into my arsenal or do some digits. You guys are like well, I'm just going to submit them and they don't they don't develop there I mean, There's there you can literally not name me Joe Jiu, Jitsu guy, where are striking guy well, maybe Jose Aldo, who is developed, high level red, but you can name a lot of wrestlers who develop high level. Something else right I mean when you see the crossover like John Jones was a wrestler. He can strike with pretty much anywhere on the planet. Right I mean steep Ameo Chick wasn't wrestler. He could pretty much strength
and on the planet I mean so you have these wrestlers who are becoming high level at these other skills. You don't have a lot of other becoming a high level high wrestling, and I and I for me, I think it's. The stubbornness of people who come from those of their backgrounds are two stubborn to want to work a lot of wrestling, whereas wrestles, like okay, he's teach counter strike. I think it's a it's. A recognition of what's important like George Saint Pierre, is a perfect example of a guy who started off to kill christian background. Didn't wrestling college or high school came a fantastic recipe in bed, yeah and I figured it out and realized realize what a critical skill it is too yeah absolutely There's a handful of you know very small handful Jose all would be like a he wasn't off as a wrestler behoove, you like, he was so what Rick D callously hard to take down. I mean fantastic takedown defense. Is there there's a handful, but there's not a lot and then, but then, if you arrest was going opposite direction in two digits to are striking, you know you. Can you can name quite a few that were
to do those things really. Well, you know it's interesting when you see a guy like cab number of Medoff and you see, is fantastic fuck yeah and his his mauling aggressive wrestling? I mean you see what a massive factor it is fights like the Edson Barboza fight yeah like that to me, is one of the the perfect examples. When I say look, the ability to take the guy down a control on the ground is the of it's the bottom of the pyramid. It's the most important foundation. Yes, because he dictates where the fight takes place. Yeah, you might catch a money coming in trying to get you might, but if he gets you, he was like a frickin, I'm just going to come. Get you yeah, you just kick some butt moving forward in chess. You have no hope, just a constant, chasing a marine chasing him right. It was. It was insane yeah now he's fantastic yeah, but now I would totally read that at the bottom of the pyramid, it's like the is the Trump card if like. If you fighting arrest, when you can't stop it take you're going to lose ninety percent of time. You know and if, if you're the Red
and you can go, get a takedown really easily you're going to wait. Ninety percent of the time, the only wildcard in that equation is a guy like Brian Ortego fights oh well office back, but how many people get submissions from guard? How many of those may even like in Anthony Pettis, who got a lot of submissions guard? A lot of that was transitions off of I body? Kick Benson Henderson, I body kick business in Bensonhurst, his good body kick to dive in for a take down his arm bar right, right, Gil Melinda's gets cut, getting getting show. Yes, he got jacked a few times right, so there are there's a handful of those, but strictly like I take you down, Vanguard that I submit you, maybe for ever do every once in awhile yeah, they better take it, but the numbers pretty damn small. It is very small yeah, it's smaller now that I think ever before, because people understand the take down there. The the guard defense yeah, even like this guy- that I so one of the things that for actually, the most more than anything else. Ma is bad strategy. Just like drives me up the wall like the Lima thing, but this freaking knucklehead default Michael Chandler on Saturday, I don't see it names going
Gordy Yamauchi ride. Damn name is so the first round he pulls guard like fast gets freaking hammered on. For like four minutes, and then he ends up on bottom in the second round. Third round. He gets taken down and I don't know fifteen seconds: did he try to get up one time now? He is laid there in guys ass with performance in forty five seconds, like everyone's wild come here. Everyone will try a triangle, but it's like dude you're. Getting your ass whip, your down two rounds and nothing try to get up I do something change your strategy. If your strategy is not working, you can't just stick with same bullshit, your asshole for another four minutes. Forty five seconds give me a break. What do you think is going to happen down there more things? Some guys get locked into a defensive position like they realize that getting overwhelmed, and so they just try to survive. You think so. Really you don't think that way, because you're, a champ, champions. Don't think that way, but I think some people there's there's acceptance of their there.
Fake ass weapon. This. This is just there getting their ass whooped, and so they just try to stay conscious. They try to just protect them selves as much as they can kind of like it's in Barbosa, but then you know innocent atom, Barbosa use once he realized he was going to survive like when it was like two minutes left in third round, maybe ish inside the first round is I can't get brought down, I'm just going to survive, but then here. Come inside he's like nanny was like ok, I'm going to fight again. I want to through this shit I might as well. If I want to make it through this, I might as well just fight back yeah right, and so he started fighting back really hard. Like the last two minutes, if I tried he certainly tried, but there was appeared in the middle where he had resigned to just taking an asshole, but I think he was just body was just not responding. He was getting so fucked up and you could see the pace that have put on him hard in the first round, like halfway into the around barbos is like Jesus Christ. You look in his eyes, get that one thousand yard stare is like whoa. What I signed up for yeah
this guy is on another level. I mean he really is. I don't know the level I'm fascinated by him. Fighting Tony Ferguson apparently going to do that now it's didn't happen April yeah, they don't know if it's going to be for the interim title or the actual title, whether they're going to Strip Conner there in a weird, I think he beats up Tony. That is my and I've underestimate Tony before so I could be wrong again. I just the I think. It's the trip again Trump card. I think Tony's kind of one of those guys were he's pretty good everywhere, is pretty damn solid wrestling high level Jiu Jitsu, but I see, could be but wrestling being better than Tony's wrestling. So it's going to end up on the ground and I think Tony's going to think he can submit him because it chooses who is very high level. But I think if we want things, work could be just good enough not to get submitted and then he's going to land damage and land damage and damage inland damage. Until you get close to a submission and close to a submission close to a sub mission, but not quite get it and then all this damage is going to accumulate in accumulate, accumulate it that's kind of how I see it.
It's fascinating and I also think it's fascinating now that could be but has changed his training. An has. A real nutritionist had no problem making weight so all the factors that played into him getting removed from the last time they were supposed to fight pulled out of the car those kind of overblown he missed weight. One time he only miss just wait one time, but his body shut down when he's making way for the Michael Johnson fight in a similar way. But he still did the Michael Johnson fight yeah, but it was the same thing. It happened on the way and it was a rough way in, but there's been other guys have missed weight. Many times I mean if we go to Johnny Hendricks Johnny Hendricks Melvin Cartel Kelvin Gastelum, and they miss it by a long. So I thought the key thing: kinda overplayed. He missed weight. One time he had some injuries which suck for him, but it was that was happening for a world title fight fighting for in time. He misses weight. Yeah I mean and says well, it's very pi, just like it was like okay for him to make it but be difficult in these got just a little bit too big for us. It wasn't for world
interim title when he was supposed to was Kevin Lee right. That was with the world or interim yeah. The whole division is kind of up with Connor, not even knowing whether or not he's fighting it going to strip him right. Yeah, mostly, I think so. I would imagine less Connor says fuck it I'm in best back pocket pocket focus. I want to keep the belt. I know the best course of action Strip, Conner Let could be been Tony fight it out and then Anna wants to come back in the title. Shot, that's going to happen whatever! Well, I think would be the most lucrative thing. Connor versus GS. No, I want to shut up Jello to fight GSP. You do yes, I want to be number one. I don't want to fight Tyron 'cause, we've been friends. For twenty years. I want to fight GSP. That's who I want to fuck you. They would set that up. They would they would try to set up GSP versus Tyron right. It would be. The big super GSP doesn't want to fight anyone who can hit hard 'cause he's worried about the brain damage so yeah. I don't hit that hard right.
Interesting way. Looking at yeah train, which is being I've, never chase I've trained with almost every top. What the weight of this era said: GSP really yeah well Justin right, but Shields Fitch D as a couple times tire, and obviously they don't go down the line of treatment for much of in this era. What do you feel like if you do wind up retiring? What? What do you feel like? You'll? You'll wind up doing just coaching restaurants and as I love doing it really enjoyed a lot. So I could I I think I don't think I go back to clean your level. It's obviously always an option it for the four years I coached called Russ and I loved it. You know, and then it was like. Hey I want to build is making a lot of money. I should probably try to be good at this instead of just doing it halfway and so Did that and then we open the wrestling schools and now it's going to London. I really enjoyed that a lot and you know, there's
positives and negatives, like I love coaching at the highest level being able to talk about his level to the college guys. So I missed that part a little bit. But then, obviously, if you go work for an institution like that, there's a meal out of bureaucracy- and I worry about that. I don't like that. I love only a mile. This is a heavy metal freedom and not having to worry about what I tweet or what I say or yeah having we tell me what to do or where to be or what address or whatever you know like. I don't like so I love that freedom, obviously then running your own business has its own challenges, also so uh. I think I will cook dressing for the rest, my life, whether I once more with I, don't find once more I'll, probably could resurrect my life awesome, yeah, Listen man! I'm glad we finally got a chance to do this. Fun really fun and tell people about your podcast, so have a wrestling podcast called he rolled funky show that's another. So what T Rowe and funky, shell, T, Rowe and funky sure how you spell that t dash r o w okay, funky, so tired, tired and
Tommy Rowlands- is two time NBA Champ for Ohio State made a couple. World teams was really close to me. Olympic team- and you know we on the phone one day, and I said I want to do a podcast, something that I want to do a podcast too. Let's just do one, you know, so it's not like a job for us. We just do it for fun. We enjoy. We love talk about wrestling and you know for me: it's really nice, like don't know ones on the same schedule as me. Now that I can talk wrestling with so to be able to get on talk for an hour a week about wrestling. It's it's a blast. Awesome, that's on I tunes and I'd everywhere. Uhhuh, hey the Southland. People want to find you it's Ben Askren on Twitter and Instagram hi, like I'm on Instagram, but I don't really care do it. I don't I don't know. I can't I can't get in is ram. Just pictures like I get it, there's no banter back and forth that struck like post every once in awhile, be like twitter of tourists, arrive on it and secondly, gentlemen, thanks brother appreciate it was fun thanks everybody for tune in the pod,
fast. Thank you, Ben Askren, for being an awesome gas to I'm so excited that we finally had a chance to sit down and talk. I've been a fan of this guy for years, and I think he is one of the more interesting guys in the sport and the fact that people didn't really get a chance to get to know him really bums me out and who knows he's only thirty three, maybe maybe so it's more and maybe he'll just ride off in the sunset and continue coaching, but I really enjoy talking to him. And Thank you to sponsors, thank you to square space, Head Squarespace, dot, com for a free trial and when you're ready to launch your new beautiful website, use the offer code. Joke save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. Thank you also to square cash. The simplest way to pay people back, download the free square cash app for Ios or Android. Now and now, when you download the cash app enter the
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We got a are well header tomorrow, ladies and gentlemen, we got rose Namah Yunus, the champ in the Us Flyweight division and a beautiful human being she's a she's, a great person. I really enjoyed talking to her and I'm really excited to sit down and talk to her on the podcast and my good friend. Great and powerful Whitney Cummings is here as well. We gotta double header. Oh shit should be a lot of fun and a lot of estrogen. So we'll see you tomorrow, thank you everybody appreciate you Bob Bob Big, kiss,
Transcript generated on 2019-10-14.