Welcome to the jordan, be petersen podcast season for episode. Seventy one eye mc Killop petersen. This was a great episode congressmen and Dan Crenshaw and my dad discussed the fall out of withdrawing from Afghanistan details of a conflict that kept us there for over twenty years, they also get injured works like what life is like as a: u S, congressmen their relations, between social media and politics, modern cans corporatism danzig hearings as a navy seal and more, I don't spoil the rest dan. And saw a republican congressmen in texas and former navy seal officer in one of us deployments to afghanistan, and I e g, improvised explosive device blast led dan losing his right a high. If there is any one I would want to be an eventual president. It would be him in twenty eight and he was elected to congress and serves on the energy and commerce committee, which has the broadest yours

action of any legislative committee, Dan region, publishes book, forty two american resilience in an era of outrage. I hope you enjoy. This episode be sure to subscribe. If you like this kind of content before we get started with the episode, this episode was sponsored by ladder life. Relevant to this episode, life insurance. It makes sense why people get life insurance, especially term coverage, which is surprisingly affordable. Why not pay a bit each month to protect the ones you love, if you're asking of this question ladders, probably the right choice for you ladder is one hundred percent. They saw no doctors, new needles, no paper work when you apply for less than- A million dollars in coverage sharing these some life insurance makes you go to a bunch of tests. If you prefer to talk to a person there too, of licence agents, don't work on commission, so they're, not I saw you just to help

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hello, everybody, I'm very pleased today to have with me a congressmen down Crenshaw down- and I have talked before but, But here we are talking again originally from the Houston area. Den Crenshaw is a proud six generation texan. From an early age. He knew that he wanted to serve as country with the most elite fighting force in history. The? U S, navy seals his father's career in the texas oil and gas industry moved his family all over the world, including ecuador and colombia, where he attended high school as a result, Dan is flute spanish in us extend graduated from tough to university where europe is naval officer commission through knee

our own tc following graduation. He immediately reported to seal training at something very difficult to do by the way in cairo, not a california, where he met his future wife, tara. After graduating seal training, he deployed disillusion Iraq to join seal team. Three, his first of five deployments overseas on its third deployment, two thousand and twelve. After six months of combat operations, he was hit by an improvised explosive device. Plastering emission helmet- Sort, inhuman province, Afghanistan, he was evacuated and woke from a medically induce coma learning. That is right. I have been destroyed in the blast and that is left. I was badly damaged. He was medically retired in september of sixteen as a leftenant commander, lieutenant commander in the u s. After serving ten years in the sealed teams, he left with two bronze stars, one with valor the purple heart in the navy commendation metal with valor, among others soon after it

completed his master's in public administration. At the harvard kennedy school of government in november of eighteen dan was elected to serve the people of texas second congressional district in congress. He serves on the house, energy and commerce committee, which has the broadest jurisdiction of any legislative committee in congress. He also serves on the house select committee on the climate crisis long others. Thank you very much for agreeing to talk to me. oh thank you grab me. It's an honor noted here many times when a very Dela Eurasia appreciates something here. Well, that's really something to hear from someone like you. I can tell you that so. We just have an election in canada and one of the things that wasn't discussed was what happened in afghanistan because canadian served there is well, and I've been put together. This idea that I would like to put four or five, people who serve their together on apart gaston get a grip

I view of the situation, and but I've got you right now, and so what the world where we doing there and what happened and wasn't any use, and what's your opinion about that because, I don't know you know so anything you can tell me- would be real helpful. It's a complicated one met at the same time. It's not, complicated, you know, what'll. I will start with some of the first questions amount. We go in there in the first place there in the first place, nine eleven and the united states invoked article five of the nato treaty, which is how canada gets involved because you're our friends and and we get attacks. We ask you to come help. You say, sir and americans have a long history of working with canadians,

special operations and the now actually, where I was stationed in Kandahar these for a while? That was of a purely canadian based? That's why there was a hockey rink, for instance, and it's so long time partners. But why were you there will because of nine eleven, and we decided that- and I think rightly decided that there needs to be a response to the attacks on nine eleven because they originated from Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda was being harboured by the taliban in afghanistan, and so we decided to taliban no longer should be controlled Afghanistan. I was David, and basically ever everybody agreed with what we should do all day. One day to another. I'm sticking. kind of general terms, but let's call it day too that the question becomes now that we kicked him by do we leave. This is always a difficult question in this. Gets to the rest of the questions as far as that were doing there. Why and

the question people have been wrestling with for twenty years and there's been dispute about it and it's it's. It's not exactly a simple question or a simple answer, because your alternatives are basic. come away with the win. Your call it a win out over too and but it certainly retribution call it revenge by the next question is: ok. Do we have an interest in prevention? We ve been instead interest in future prevention of future attacks and that's that that, at any rate, That question became yes, we do, which is why the global war on terror became the buzzword for twenty years and that the difficult question was always dewey. Let afghanistan just fall back into the hands of the taliban. Where do we stand and try to at least create some semblance of a government that will be our partner. that we can live with and that we can conduct counterterrorism operations? Let them

That's it I'm on another nine eleven and I became the choice for twenty years now so we chose to do and we can argue in people like to sort of take easy swipes at that and say well, what they they were, never really prepared. We reduced, it seems like this war or just sort of it the two, the war which is doing the same things up and over again, but they forget what the altar Events in life is always about assessing what the alternatives are. It's easy to Zizi to be disenchanted with the present or that the current choice a little bit harder to actually think about it and assess what the alternative is and it turns out there isn't really good alternatives in a situation like this, you can stay at war You can say that you ended it and refuse to adopt So there is actually an entire ideology out there that has no interest in ending that war with you, you know what I people is, and you can kind of get what side of the debate. I am on your coloured and swore call it what you want. The fact is, you send guys

me over there's insurance policies so that there's no more nine eleven and now what do we get for twenty years of war enough? so what we got no more nine eleven and that certainly not nothing is actually pretty significant and you think, that's a reasonable causal link. latin or we did, I suppose, is another way of looking at it. Not that I'm taking any credit for that, but so that did happen, as you said, there hasn't been another major attack and the incidence of terrorism worldwide. That sort of terrorism does seem to have declined choice, a a trick to attribute the cause of that correctly. So it's it's hard and in its by that, of course, the kite is, an organization that exists primarily to externalize their operations. They exist to attack land, whether that europe or the? U s or Canada. Isis, for instance, is an organisation that existed builded islamic caliphate.

Now they're, all kind of under the same umbrella mean any taliban isis Al Qaeda with to the extent that they fight with each other. It's mostly about power structures, as opposed to ideological differences, are all on the same team there. It just might have different strategies, and so we decimated AL qaeda and Al Qaeda, tried to move to Iraq or try to had tried to move. Yemen. Are we just go after them and what that does? Is it? Is it an endless work here, because these people are in an endless war with us. You know we weren't at war in september, twenty thousand one we weren't of war in the year two thousand, when the? U s, s call was set, we weren't at work and our embassies in transit in kenya were hit and nineteen ninety seven and we weren't at war in nineteen. Ninety three when the world trade center was bombed with somebody was at war with us, and this is what I have to remind people. and we can say we ended a war couple months ago. The leading and any war The entire suggests that Al Qaeda is rapidly reforming and and is now now they have the space and time because somebody like me is not going after them any more and that that's that

He ingredient there. Are they on the run or are they? Are they kicked back and and planning the next, the blacks, big operation? The next really really the labourers operation, the really dramatic attack that they like to do now, that's better than just a underwear. bomber going on an airplane so do you think they have that they are that space now in afghanistan, and so I am going to tell you a brief story. There is a canadian federal elections not too long ago, and maybe a month before that are so one of the cabinet members of our prime minister's government. He was re elected with a minority government just intruder. She referred to the taliban, the new government in in afghanistan, under the taliban as our brothers- and you know that wasn't so different in some sense, from some of the missives that have been coming from the: u s state department, but many people weren't to thrilled with that description, and you know that the feeling of more hard

added people, and maybe they're wrong. Is that you know it's the same old characters now that have obtained power and we better watch the hell out and so is that over suspicious should they be offered an olive branch psych? What's your sense about the right way forward with that new government? I don't think it's overly suspicious that, although these are certainly the same people that if my eye isn't the same people now granted. I get to wear cool eyepatch as a result of it. So I'm not complaining too much yeah. You do look cool, it's not there's! No doubt about that, and I read a comedian's comment about you. I think he apologized for it with something like a look like what the private eye in a porno flick or something

which is a good job, but it was that that part without that part, with a good job that, with that that was the garage I actually was pretty funny that doesn't kind of sparks the history of my er of the birth of my political career. I guess we could talk that their money well, let's finish off with the taliban and then, let's finish, serve with itself taliban. Our finnish taliban are terrible, They haven't changed one bed if anything there, emboldened and ruthless, like that, Conny networked again, a ruthless ruthless terrorist organization and drug running operations at the head of that, I think, is the its second in command for taliban right now that the people in charge, others there's groups that will really tat their groups in charge of security around the Kabul airport. The taliban groups were for suicide bombing bird submitted it these people come there I'll cut from the same cloth. Nothing has changed our seen plenty of video

of them hanging people murdering people executing people rounding when selling them off, you know what women are under attack and afghanistan are very serious way. So, unfortunately, here yet the state department is calling on them to be diverse, inclusive and equitable. Then, it's an. I did something nasty about that scared. I think it's just it's like. I am not opposed to working with you questionable characters around the world. I mean I I come from. The special operations community also come from the intelligence community. This is this is what you have to do sometimes, but this isn't necessarily one of those cases. This was this was the time to put your foot down. I refused to let this happen now, when you let it happen, and the question is, what do you do after the fact cause we're not going to go back in and invade, so you do have to work with them to an extent, and it was the sort of deal with the devil and I do understand them by, but you don't have to speak so favourably about them either.

Let me come on emitters. Theirs is at least some is italy. dignity that we might preserve. I would hope, but our stated while you're so maybe might not. You might also not say things that would lead them to avert the mark. You light yeah diversity, inclusive, indian equity, missives. That's a bit needs, let's call it naive side to say the absolute least yeah. It's it's outlook. Ism is infected, serious people, I mean to say the least. It's it's it's infuriating and it's it's it's caused. You know quite a bit quite a bit of angst in the united states of people on both sides of the debate, and both sides of the aisle are deeply unhappy about it and we feel deeply embarrassed and as we should, especially because it was so preventable,

one of the key takeaways from the hearings this week, where gen millay is the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and secretary of defense are testifying before the senate and the house in front of the armed services committees, I'm not on those committees. I didn't get to and get to ask them questions, but the one thing that really came out that I hope to come out was the art. Our defence department told them very Really, you need to leave at least a few thousand troops there. There's a very it's almost guarantee that if we go down to zero because you know slogans right is it. This is where I get very upset with the debate about all this, because I feel like the the push to remove troops. effectively based on a slogan, an emotional slogan, maybe too What slogan even see the derivation of that word, sparing into Alan

it's from slag garabin, it's well slew egg guarantee it means battle cry of the dead. That's interesting. He asked her perfectly. And if it's perfectly, what how I'm using the word slogan now, because it I think it caused these- I think these emotional slogans were effectively political battle, cry cause deaf and dumb when you set. You know this emotional cries to bring the some as if I need your help right as if I is, if I am not a smart visual that volunteer to go and defend a man Because if I need somebody sympathy, I dawn the other slogan, no more in this worse in our own interest, it is. It is reduces a very complex and important topic into a very foolish debate and I think that's how Did up in this place. Where were the number had to be zero? It couldn't be twenty five hundred couldn't be five thousand. Who could it couldn't be something reasonable?

Is I'm not saying we have a hundred thousand troops there like when I was deployed in Afghanistan might have been a hundred twenty thousand troops there, and you know It made me as a surgeon in it is debatable whether that's necessary or not, but but it certainly not sustainable forever. And I think what people became unable to do is distinguished between this enormous resources being expended on nation building. Let's call it. I think that again, I think that's an overly simplistic term, but they don't like hundreds of thousands of troops there fair enough. I mean why. Wouldn't I totally get that and I think we should do it either, and I also think that we should be trying to export democracy, but that's, but that's been of a book of a straw, man argument or a red herring really obviously related terms, but it's you this whole idea that we're trying to export democracy. That was never the point it. You know what it's it's an unfair. Criticism of the bush administration. They were there. Their goal was not to export democracy. Now you might make a different argument on Iraq. I think they got all over

skis on that one. The limits of that debate aside when I can't stand it was never the points it was just that on day too, like I said, you have a question to you: try to build some semblance of a government that you can work with, or do you just let the taliban it over and then in the euro. Where you are right before september, eleven, two thousand one, and what have you gain? So what do you think? What happened? A few were left five or ten thousand troops. There would be a very situation right now. The afghan government would still be up and up and running and there'd be little skirmishes little combat operations, for while they're just would and why is that? small number of troops. Sorry, we may have a bit of a leg, so I'm busy and with a rude here. But why are you convinced that a number five thousand ten thousand something like that? Why are you convinced that that would have been sufficient? Well, because its efficient enough to hold certain airfields commit sir,

air power to our afghan partners and honestly, Then the morale boost that they need to go, find it on their own, but also provides logistical support to them. I mean through truly modern army, is five percent combat ninety five percent logistics? That's what makes the american military so unbelievable is that we can deploy anywhere in the world and our logistics are second to none and em. You know that's something. That's not quite real.

is they we're also not all syrians. I watched an extensive series on world war, two that concentrated and it was narrated by eisenhower, and it was a concentrated, a lot of logistics, which I found absolutely fascinating and it stunned me as well just the sheer difficulty of supplying tanks and men with gasoline once the english channel was crossed. That was amazing operation. They built these huge spools out of with as much steel in them as battleships and unrolled pipelines across the english channel. It's like, and that was like one amazing- got a osama absolutely beyond comprehension that it and and that it was possible that it worked so that logistics, this the supply of the army. All of that that's that is really something in people. Dont know how complex that is so So you figure, in my view, to conduct thousand, and in that way your guy slogans, it was killed by slogans. It was killed by emotional slogans. Is Emily alexey can't overstate the importance of logistics?

and people say what we ve been there for twenty years, and we, why can't they handle it? I need you you handle it being a new country after twenty years. That's not exactly a long standing a long time. You know it's, it's difficult! It'll give these these guys. Some slack mean they ve been to build a plain while its falling through the air for years, and it's not easy Adam and you ve got it insurgency, that's ruthless doesn't play, but at the same rules now they ve got ideas set up everywhere. This stuff is hard and it takes time to remind people. We earn south korea. it's the fifties. They don't have an election until the eighties. You know takes a while Would anybody say at this point that it wasn't worth it that we should have just left and and let that fall to communist china control the way north korea is. I don't think so

I mean after italy, so curious. Our draftsman yeah, absolutely thrive away. Man her ended and that would have never have happened without our presence there. Just never and it's not like they are stopped. The worry that their tax it's still at war, so I didn't. I just think the arc now now look. Are we losing americans there now, but we also haven't lost an american in afghanistan for a year and a half until these marines were killed and just a few weeks ago. So in a way in before that people like well, that's because of the treaty with the taliban and possibly possibly got now there time on their hands there, their strategic thinkers, but before that when we didn't have a treaty that an average of six or seven deaths in Afghanistan every year until The US military loses a hell of a lot more than that suicide and random accidents so You know it wasn't. I wouldn't call this a war in the traditional sense it. It was not what I was dealing with

and even what I was dealing with in two thousand and twelve was certainly not like two thousand and ten. It was you know it's it. War is relative. And I don't see what was going on since about twenty fourteen is a full blown or by any stretch its case. Let me summarize what and see? If I got it right, so you think that twenty years of involvement kept terrorism at bay pretty effectively now that's done with, and whatever was there before is mounting again and has been emboldened. That was your word and on board. By what exactly well by the fact that they took over the government of afghanistan instantly in and are back in control, and then I have some parallel questions long with that. If I got that right, what is this endless war that wherein apparently about and whose underneath it, because I have been watching american foreign policy for a long time, and I keep wondered about pakistan

keep wondering about saudi Arabia. Has all this immense wealth and has the proclivity too, fund, rather radical ideas all around the world continually, and so I know those are terror thanks to ask you about, or even to talk about that, I am not an expert on this, but I, but I know enough what we're dealing with is is islamic extremists that really originated from Saudi arabia. Them addresses of saudi arabia. Mojave Islam, which is a very extreme form of islam, materialised over time and I think what s interesting is that I'm gonna get the year wrong in the exact attack wrong. There is a major islamic extremist attack in saudi arabia decades ago and everything that moment, the saudi arabian government sort of had this deal with the devil with them leave us the hell alone and we'll we'll leaf harbour. You,

right. So that's why people can look to saudi arabia. Is this culprit, even though a governmental of older an ally and again it's deals with the dome. news because, like arrange its in it, You know why realize that saudi arabia will because they're because they're the only geostrategic to turn to IRAN and they're worse, and this is life you know this is this- is this is realism and as opposed to who we wish people were but that that sort of where it came from- and this has been around for a while- they hate us because they hate us now what There are always looking for this sort of this. This logical reasoning, why why do they not like us? It must have been something we done must be our foreign policy, and so I asked my ok well, what's let's take them, that's take our biggest examples. Take some have been line. What exactly did we in the sky I mean. Was it? Was it us aligning with him and the mujahideen and afghanistan against the soviets in the eighties, when we helped him it was it was. It

or was it when we defended his homeland of saudi arabia from invasion from Iraq from Saddam Hussein and the first call for that. We stop saddam Hussein from invading saudi arabia and and that was actually he so claim that our mere presence there was enough to two radicalized him and start Al Qaeda. If that doesn't make any logical sense right, because we're always looking for this sort of transactional relationship to help us understand as westerners but they're not westerners, they don't operate off the same logic. They think we're infidels They hate us, because if we are any need to accept that and that's why it's an endless war, there will always be a war with us. And anyone that whenever he snuff it out, it's a reality that we have to live it. Do you think about it? A just struggle or as a criminal enterprise- that's essentially organised against the west. U s in particular,.

It certainly seems to me like a religious struggle, at least that's how they paint it and- and I you know, I can only go off of how they operate and how they have it's an inch. in question a minute. I don't know that. I distinguish too much amid a it. Oh it in a sense, it operates like an organized crime in our prize for sherman. That's how it track than we tracked them through financing retract them in all the traditional ways that you might not down a northern ice crime unit soap in practical purposes, we can see at the same time and in the religious side gets into it. It goes back to the old adage, winning hearts and minds, and you know turns out at any other it daddy, daddy easing and indeed that we're never gonna win over muslims. In this sense, it is just not gonna happen when we're over their remunerated that the alliances that we then we get when we're in a place like iraq or afghanistan under other their based on practicality and endless debate

the directive of muslims are just not that extreme, so they don't we're fine aligning with us. They don't necessarily subscribe to this idea that you can't even speak to a christian, and so it's it's complicated. It's catholic life is complicated, so tell me about life as a congressman. You've been in congress were know for three years, and I spent some time in Washington and I was surprised by many things and overwhelmed by many things and impressed by many things, but what's your what's your day to day, lifelike and you're, so I guess maybe what we first should do is describe the difference between a congressman and senator for everybody. That's listening and then I'd like to What you do day to day and what your fellow congressmen do, mostly senators are just much older. Have the look, the the the american system that I guess I'm just

you know what speaking a whole audience. Gesine, others know, there's out of the americans that quite understand the origins of our system, but it's not apply. element in our in the room. In being our founders in creating republic, they wanted it to move slowly. They didn't like this idea. This notion, that than in the decisions of An entire country could be made very easily, so they created sort of these national structures and that are all structures, The house is a national structure, the senate of federal structure and we ve got to change over time and with with sorted destroyed that by changing the content sure, but it was originally intended wherein the house really represents the people. It's the people's house, election is every two years. It's very emotional majority rules. Absolutely. I may Nancy policy only as for votes majority and she just kicks our, but

we can't do. We have no power in the house because this matter, tarion and it's emotional and it just it. Just it's the people. It really is the people and the Senate was supposed to be this sort of canal. It's like the house of lords sorta in the great britain, the uk, and it's supposed to be the sort of slower or methodical decision making process and the constitution was actually written where there is no popular vote to elect your senators, where you're state legislatures actually choose your centres, because the entire pointed the senator you get to her

her stay, and this is important to say, federal and national right, because national implies that europe say the people see represent just based on numbers of people with the senate, isn't like that and others to senators per state, and the reason it's like that is too is too well give more power to states that are less popular it. So they just give run over by everybody else, because the foundation of our countries, the united states, america, the foundation of our country, is this idea that we can all kind of live together peacefully if we leave each other, the hell alone for the most part, and let's states do it states do I've have like that idea. I think you would a sort of a lot of our problems, but the idea was then that states have representation. And ah, and then they choose that now that got changed nearly nineteen hundreds in an amendment. So now it's a popular vote, so the Senate got a little bit more populist. It got a little bit more nationalized by still a federal entity, still two two votes per state that that matters, and

a big difference in the senate. Senator has more power in division senator has more power to block legislation than in. I do in the house and what that power comes more responsibility, see your hope that senators, believe in that responsibility, as one of the worries I have is that we were getting a little bit more of a kind of a wild west type of senator, getting elected to congress and a little bit more radicalized, How do people you see in the house because it's easy to be these easy to be upset, It's easy to be a little crazy when you just have no responsibility, and it's easy to kind of the the diffusion of responsibility is quite significant, and the house was four hundred and thirty I've members, but in the senate there's only a hundred sayer status actually mean Is there a little bit more and it act like an adult and for the most part, that's how its operated. I also has a lower here. That's a four year term, six years, six, you

irma sixty sanctuary has howitzer save on the whole lot of people than others, Is it just allows you to escape the political ramifications sooner. The emotions of the people for a while and just gonna make adult decisions, and that's it that's a good thing and I think the house should probably be a little bit more. You know if I were to change something I'd say: the house should be three years because we're running for election constantly, it seems like in it, that is why that is- and I wanted that something. I really did one ask you, but I just when I went to washington, admit and a number of congressmen congressmen both democrat and republican. The first thing I thought was there is no way I would want to have this. bob and they're part of it was well when are you not running for office and that's really hard and it's really expensive and it's really demanding and then but you're also supposed to be working, but then also you have to fundraise constantly

and that that was really shocking to me. My my sense of it was that congressmen we're spending like twenty five hours in an all. first that wasn't their primary office on the phone raising funds for their party, and so that's like they hours a week, and then you have to campaign for like yahoo nos ten and then you have to fly. As you know, you don't live in washington necessarily Well then years then there's your job, so that's gotta take up a few hours as well. So I have no idea. I have no idea how you do it and do ten. People do it disappears. proxy wily seem health leasing was founded by mit S, doctrine leonard guarantee, one of the first listen, aging science. With over thirty years of research in the field, they have The world's best scientists working with them in eight of them are nobel prize winners. A science dream team come true probably heard me talk about Lee seems product basis in the past there seconds

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amaris and a people ask if I enjoy it, and I say what would he mean by that, because I really enjoyed the way I enjoyed the seal teams. I mean I got blown up in the seal teams and I still rather enjoyed it quite a bit. This is not joy of all. In the same way now I personally people follow me. They know. I do a lot of fun things associate with my campaign that make it enjoyable like are big parties. We have big fourth of July celebration and we do a youth summit which, of course, you are you're getting at like do fun things to to make it enjoyable and the reason I say it's not It is balanced people reality. You are correct that a lotta alot of folks would shades about twenty hours a week and I spent on the phone on raising out. For me, it's not I don't do that at all. I might spend an hour. How do I get away without, and why do other people do it? If you can get away with not doing it, Why didn't anyone do it, because I put so much efforts in

to enter just trying to. I try to be somebody that somebody just wants to donate to that makes sense. So I put a lot more accidents if it works, and if I I I under the understanding that congress people were under congressmen were under tremendous pressure from their party brass to to do that sort of work, and you can understand why is it so expensive to run, and maybe it doesn't have to be? You know that is a question but and I into all other set of questions didn't so it does work, I'm very it works for me, it's it's it's hard for its hard to replicate it to be perfectly honest it works for me because I don't I know you, social media, pretty well things like this s right a guy I have my own rank ass. I know well that I want to ask you about that too, because you wrote a book in just a couple of years ago

What you are doing all this, and then you have this podcast as well, and so you are using this new media to speak directly to people, and so that begs one question, which is how in the world you have the time to do all that as well, and but I would like to talk to ask you about your experiences with social media like always that working for you politically and what do you think it? It signifies. Let's say for the future of politics because who need the legacy, media and thirty second soundbites direct, like anyone, does yeah and enlisted the entire point of being a representatives is too well there's a couple points to it: craft logistics We should vote on that legislation, so I'm in the minority, which means I'm not really crafting any legislation. I mean I have legislation I'd like to craft, but I have no power, so my duty is effective just a vote on it that doesn't take up a whole lot of time and die.

I think, a lot of members are to mislead the public a little. when they say I don't have any time to read anything like look, there's ways that we digest these massive bills, we're following their development over time. Staff is coming through it. You know that their there, The reason there so long to the field of legal jargon and then you have to break apart the substantive part of it, but there's ways it too I used to absorb it. So I never use that as an excuse for why I'm voting against something, because you basically know what's in it and anyway that sort of a of side point, but but you anyway, you gotta relieves. That's true, yeah yeah. It is I don't like using that as an excuse. I could be an excuse. I just don't like using her up the butt, but another big part of your job is simply to communicate with people and because you're representing them,

seem to communicate both up and down right now to communicate their voices and what you said you would run on. So obviously you don't perfectly represent everybody. There's lots of democrats in my district who don't feel that I represent them. That's fine, but I represent a majority of the people in my desk. and so, and I represent them based on what I ran on a set of values, set of conservative, limiting principle values and my job, is to is to explain things better than they can themselves it just sort of why they a lunch there, like they kind of once be like them, but just to explain it better, and I new, and I knew that's what I wanted, because I wasn't. I was never political, the first. Mt. I got involved in politics was the moment I declared running for office, and I ll. inuit. So I was a normal guys. My point, like I, I think, being involved in politics and being an activist, can kind of change the change. The way you think about politics and I think, get you detached from regular people who are just aren't thinking about,

it all the time, but I was just one of these regular people, not really thinking about her all the time. I was very interested in policy, but which is slightly related but different than politics itself. So when I- This point is this: I was gonna write of regular guy and I knew what I wanted and I just wanted people to to explain why there They were doing what they were doing. It don't talk to me in talking points, so an end to do You do need long for discussion and then you gotta, find you gotta communicate with people where there s a. Why do about gas will, so I can dive deepened issues and and and be willing- and no no things well enough, so that you can have a long for conversation. Other people will struggle with that, and so that's number one, but not a realist. the podcast, not everybody, wants to listen to anything for an hour, and so you also have to be able to communicate your points on twitter in our nets that great, but it is something in sets. Some people follow, you answer communicate something there. Instagram is probably one of my

favorites, because it can kind of do everything on instagram and it's I have the biggest following there and you know you put out videos. I'll explain or videos and I'm not I'm not giving a twenty minute. You know info. National episode on if an issue act but I'm trying to do it in a couple minutes and go a little deeper than just Democrats are bad. You know and they want to kill jobs. Will we do they want to kick start. This is this is explained it a few layers, deep a few more layers and that's what people are looking for and it's been very successful in I can spend my time doing. That, which is also my job is my job is to communicate. I can then my time doing that and and mean creative with that and being good at that, and that takes us all those hours of fundraising that I have to do it's not like. I don't do anything, and I can't I'm like I'm like one of the number one fund, razors and house thought as part. I resign get away with it

we are doing, is very effective right right, so tell me about this youth summit more about the youth summit and how that got started and why you do it and what you saw there. I I know I did this q and a, but my staff give me and I do it and I don't know the context is much and I would like to especially with something like that. I wish then been there too love to get you there next time, we'll do it every year and it's it's a very cool thing you're conservative. You know that one of the biggest electoral problems you have as young people and this is an all that surprising. I think I think the promises of those utopian laughter, a very dear, to a young person and info to a certain extent, you'll never escape that. But my goal is to is to give them the tools of conservatism. Does that there's a lot of youth groups out there? Your problem familiar with you spoken at a turning point and then

and you may be used. We may be dealt with the ass to a young america foundation of good organizations, but this isn't what I doing my doing either one of those things and trying to do a mix of both, because what yeah does is it a very intellectual legates spent, been shapiro pretty much their main headliner. Of course, you know been well, and so bit more intellectual there's, not a lot of fanfare to it. It just somebody on a stage in which gave a speech on the answer. Some questions that's only like turning point, which is a very high production, lots. It's like a kind of a concept very much a rally, and what I try to do is a mix of both so good cause. I I want to give you that experience and I'm also a one hundred per cent only focused on high school and college kids. So that's a and you have to have an age limits of mine was twenty four and- and I want to give them both intellectual tools that they can come away with, which is why I invite somebody

if you to speak and- and I want to also give them a good time, because I know I need to grab their attention and eat and have fun I need to need them the come away with an experience of they're, not gonna, forget, and so we I it's, it's a high production, fun events: it like. If there's, there is even a concert in the middle of it, You know, I don't know, what's going on with thick with you conservative types, because you got comedians now and you ve got entertainment and no you're talking to young people. It's like this is very strange so I have a question about the about this issue of you, young people, because I've been talking to lots of conservative folks in canada because we have a conservative party and their boat as popular as our government, but not quite, and it I've mentioned that. I believe that their fundamental problem is that they can't figure out what they have or for the young people, but seems to me that what they have to offer is this no

something like encourage something like paternal encouragement like. We really think you could be something if you behave properly Some essential sense- and we really believe you as an individual in alignment with europe, issues more than we believe, let's say in the utopian promises of government per se as a problem solving enterprise and, I think, one of the things I ve really noticed, and I get a lot letters from people is that in this just boat, killed when I was on my tour cause, I'm offering people words of encouragement as individuals, and I have no idea how much starvation there was for that, and that was pretty generally true of young men, but not only true of them- and that is something conservatives can say is like look. You know, we really believe in you and weak we'd. We are sceptical of the claims that

big organizations per se? Especially government can do what they promised, whereas you as an individual, especially to get your act together. Man you're really something deadly so in the best possible sense, and that's that really attractive message big, especially the young Now is the already hear that when they hear that their despoilers of the environment or some guy wrote me. I just told this letter today, he'd been in prison suicidal. He wasn't it guy and is he sort of design? when he was thirty about he said he encountered my lectures, unease opt regarding himself as intrinsically you like an intrinsically dad despoiled of the planet. Something that I am not exaggerating in here I had no idea that maybe there was something to the idea that he had intrinsic value and he quit all his idiocy stopped, king and stop taking drugs and he got married. He had a kid and he's got a job and you know it Services have something to offer young people and they

don't know how to get it across do something, What you're doing that? That does that its partly worm so interested in talking to you. Why do you think the turning point thing is working exactly it's it's different than what I do. I mean what turning point does with charlie does. Is it that they, just they just were the first ones, to give the conservative kids a place to go, hang out with each other frankly, which is pretty meaningful just looking for, especially in our universities. Setting learn are desperate to find like minded individuals who feel the way they do, that give them that you, the republican clubs, we're just kind of outdated young people don't go joining these clubs anymore, so we sorta just look for different ways to do it, and I I think that's that's that's what it gives them. I mean it's. I don't think it's marked much more complicated than that

they met midwinter jump off of what you were saying about what conservatives deliver. Was somebody asked a question like that always It kind of depends on my audience on how I want to answer it, but the jumping off of what you said. You know do it because you said you use the phrase paternalistic and tourism and encouragement endeavours and of course we have, which is different, of course than paternalism, which is, I think, a leftist attribute but what will we do and what I want to jump off of? There is what I often say, and actually it was a speech I gave to that. Eu summit was because I'm always trying to explain to kids like how how how can I'm giving you tool, I'm giving you a way of explaining something, simply so that when you are confronted by your classmates, you can have this tool now. You ve got a tool in your to look at that. You can use, unlike here's a way to think about the different street conservatives and liberals and like it, goes something like this. The conservative ideology is like it's about love, cave it's it's about the kind

love that your parents give you and that's a little different then said the kind of love that you're, like crazy aunt, gives you a she loves you, but she wants to just spoil right. She just wants you to love herds, really important to her. She doesn't, we have a lot of responsibility over you either to your parents, create around you when they tell you that your actions matter, they tell you that your accountable. They tell you that you better work heart. If you want to succeed in or not that nice about it doesn't feel like love, but it is in a very profound way, that's love and in your crazy ants, like you're, perfect way, you are, in our view, the change. You know, you're, fine, and, and it's not your fault, that you got a bad grade. I want to do things for you like. Let me take you to the shopping mall. It doesn't mean she's a bad person. It just means that its that's that's not There is nothing I wish that you can tell young people, especially around sixteen or seventeen

if they're fine, the way they are it's like yeah, but they might as well just die right there and then then, because they've hit perfection, it's like no you got lots more to learn- is way more to you than you ve explored, and it's really necessary that you find that out and and develop it, and that's why more encouraging than you're. Ok, the way work, but you know I get it in some sense because its associated with the idea that people have intrinsic value in. If you have children in some way, they are just perfect the way they are but in some way? They're, not because they're, not everything they could yet be so yeah. So the message is easy to get the message mixed yeah and it's like there's a difference between not being fix and being bad. You know, and we shouldn't tell kids if they're just bad, but yet we also have to give them room to grow and something to aspire to, and in it that you have a that's the thing right there that that that issue of something to aspire to you, no one part of the woke. What would you call it path

Oh that we're all engrossed in at the moment is the idea that you know that something wrong with judgment per se and that such a preposterous idea, because to do it- and I could speak about that psychologically because to do something like look at a room, you have to make judgments about what you're look out and why you can't do anything without you when there is a hierarchy of values, its tied to our perception and- and there has to be- there- has to be something at that up in some sense that unites us, and we should strive for that. And that is the sort of thing that conservatives can with warnings about the overreach of government, because people who are conservative are tend to be more concerned about that. And so I think the two things that I like to say are foundations of conservatism when we just hit on which is effectively personal responsibility, a sense of accountability,

very, I think, that's important as an important bedrock for any civilization. I would also say that the precursor to freedom- I don't think you can be a free society, if you don't at least have this sort of sense of personal responsibility ingrained in it, and I ll see how it's possible right, because that fit for the for the simple reason that freedom requires a sense of responsible buddy otherwise, you're just asking other people too to be taken care of you and, if you're, asking other people to be taking care of you. the definition your infringing on their freedoms, we're asking a politician to infringe on their freedom. Soaks is these are now this very foundations and innocent. What concerns our daughters, this freedom, nor amply cairo? depriving as you're also depriving yourself of the adventure of your life. Yet has one one of the things that's been so successful for me in some senses to draw connection between responsibility and meaning psyche, some meaning to set against the suffering while, where you gonna find that well

I only one place to find a dozen responsibility, because that means. Shouldering something worth shoulder. And it's a burden, that's actually somewhat significant, and you can you know you can comfort yourself with some sense of your own utility. In the face of all your sins and stupidity, and that's that's? U can? How can you live without that? It's not possible. Yeah the struggles. I have is this: how that's not more persuasive, because there's there's just a lot of people who just, I think fundamentally disagree with what we're saying right now that they they would disagree that free as a virtue in and of itself there is even a virtue in and of itself, they were not to define freedom. Very deep Thirdly, they would say: well, you can't be free unless, unless you have housing, unless you have helped free healthcare, unless you have and they At least you some living wage than you can't go be free is over. There

defining the word. Freedom completely differently right, because I find it troublesome on it. Is too because you know you can certainly see that there are levels of absolute privation that are so severe that your freedom is restricted and in many ways Norway's and maybe in the most important ethical ways mean a lot. I read a lot of literature written by concentration camps, survivors who were pretty damn rough situation and still insisted on their own. What would you say? Ethical responsibility certainly solzhenitsyn conclusion in some sense he thought that was all you really had when we everything was stripped away from you and viktor frankl, who I wouldn't regard, particularly as a conservative very much came to the same conclusion in those are pretty powerful box. It's hard to read through without being you know, some convinced so and in an era,

One of our challenges is convincing people that freedom is actually a good thing, and I know it maybe not just not libertine freedom, I mean, like ordered, livery freedom. You know freedom within a moral framework, which is what makes me conservative and not a libertarian, and it is difficult difficult than you might think to convince people. Well, I dunno, I think, youth. I think you understand it. I think it's a conversation you have pretty often, but it's a convincing people that freedom indeed, even though its risky, and even though its messy even though it can allow you to fall on your face, sometimes and an uneven, do suffering even suffering that you might think, is unjust. Still in the aggregate improve things and improves everything in its heart. to see that at the moment, and so what people are swept up by is the sort of false promises of of immediate action. Immediate action to save something just fix something to take that per turn. Illicit government view that site,

It is you of something, but the thing is: if we actually took a step back and saw the forest for the trees and looked at the longstanding history, it is, it is always- true, that more freedom leads to more prosperity, overtime and less of at least two less. It is, if not it, if not complete another decay. In fact, nor do I think diversity. Argument is actually a weird. What would you call it's a weird warped version of that in some sense, because, speaking as a scientist, I hope Part of the reason that freedom works is that we don't actually know what problems are going to come up next, because things actually change and they change and unpredictable way, and so we have traditions to guide us and thank god for that, because we'd be making endless decisions all the time otherwise, and we wouldn't. We will be that we would be incomplete disunity, but we still that's not a perfect structure from being ahead into unknown territory.

and so you don't know what the problems are, and you don't know what the damn solutions are because you're, not that smart. So what do you do about that? Well, biologically. What has happened is that human beings are possessed. very diverse, individual temperaments and that's the diversity argument. That's why diversity is necessary, but its temperamental. So there are creative, unknown crew if people their extroverted, unknown, extroverted people, there are compassionate people and there are tough minded people their cause can't just people- and there are people who aren't burden down- my duty and sometimes that freeze them up to the artists. Let's say who's right: While the answer is it, on win and ok. So how did? How do you cope with that structurally, while you let these diverse people be free, so that they can think up ideas that might be appropriate for the problem? And then you? Let them talk, which is why free speech is so important. It's like, without them We do not have a problem solving mechanism. We can't capitalize this

biological diversity, this the manner in which organisms themselves have adapted to the entire structure of reality. Mess with that. You certainly do Do it politically and you need free speech on its part of the part about- is also opponent processing if I want to move my hand as smoothly as possible? This way, I put this hand up to stop it and push, and then I can do it and the processes that occur biologically or like that opponent processes they make four percent vision and control and a lot of our political structures in in the west because we allow, free discussion, our opponent process there, opponent processes, so we have a problem. We get a diverse range of opinions, god only knows she's right and then we can talk them through then maybe we don't implement something, you know catastrophically stupid, and so

and I think the other point to extract from what you said is its diversity, its outside the decentralization and so gap is rightly decided. This is a key key elements of conservatism. Is this? First of all, a sense of humility, conservatism is about a sense of humor. a sense of humility about what you can really know and what you can control. And in my experience dealing with my colleagues Democrats said they have no no such humility and do believe that they can solve every problem, and sometimes I think, that's one gender. Sometimes it's not. I think it's just important to kind of extracts what what they want, but then that then let us figure out how to there. You will know that the actually that works out temperamental, that's exactly how things should work, because liberal people, all you know in so far as cycle just have been able to determine this and it's not exactly accurate, because psychology as a field is prejudice against conservatives, so some of the science, measures arise, yeah, stare

especially in social psychology, but but none well, let some so. The debate well, who tend towards those more liberal, utopian and grand scheme views, are. They tend to be high and openness, and that's creativity, divergent thinking, and low in conscientiousness and are very detail oriented, whereas the it is of the opposite types, and so what you see here in businesses is the open. Liberal types tend to be entrepreneurial, at least in their vision and the conservative types implement, and if you don't get that right in your business than it doesn't work because they are when people are everywhere, they can't settle down. They can catalyzing identity, easily cause they're interested in everything and their full of war schemes and great because hey some ideas, but if you want him contagion and then the other problem the grand scheme. Thing is, and conservatives We say this and it's really hard to teach young people about this, but it's really important and that's the law of unintended consequences is like wire, so sure that you're stupid idea, we'll all

do what you think it will do an order, weird things that you dont predicted all that are worse than the original problem, and this this could lead us into a discussion of climate change. Politics, for example. Watching the spot price of oil and natural gas. well what's happening in china, which is just cut power to millions of people, because coal prices have gone through the roof and they're trying to meet their carbon targets. So it's like yeah. Well, that's a solution! Is it well? Let's talk about that a bit? Maybe if you don't mind you're on that committee. yeah, I or long burke. We shall not cast it. Some at the summit, primarily dealers must be properly think a month. Armed services committee and primarily deal with national security issue but the month my two issues are health care and environment. Mostly I don't know. I've always tend to have a two gravitate towards weaknesses, and I feel, like those are the two subjects that

conservatives are weakest on in our messaging, even if only one correct correct about our assessments of them. Can I say one more thing about the decentralization our yes doesn't analyse. Let's move into climate change got to say about climate change, but the light one of the reasons. I think this is so important, this this sense of humility, and it also it also helps people under stand, I'm always trying to help people understand the philosophical underpinnings are why you're a conservative is, I think, is a really rich tradition there and I don't think is one on the left right. I think the left is about what you want right now. I don't see it guided by any kind of principle, or especially in it, there's there's no guiding principles in their either no limiting principles, and so that the decentralization argue important and it gets to the diversity argument, because it's it's really why we come it's right, it's why we end up supporting the free market or it's why we think that is important because like while it will never be

perfect, and while you can always imagined a utopia where the centralized thinking just makes things better than ever works, it has good reason it never works. An entire pointed that diversity and in the free market that underpins it, is the ability to to do something and then stout, whether its creating value were not because you, you can be there whimsical artist if you want, but if nobody cares about it, then it's a good indication that you're not creating any real value, but of course some people do and they find a way to do that. I just think that's it's a good indication is, you can get in. That's that they bring them It's so tough is that we produce these decentralized process, isn't there actually cognitive computational devices the its unbelievably complex, it's impossible to keep up with it, so you distribute decision making. That is a fundamental conservative principle too, to the in the most diverse, possible manner, right right down to the level of the individual, because you're too dams.

But to know what's coming, and so you need to build a mutational machine and that that's really perhaps how conserved we should talk about it, because that link is very seldom really made. How do you keep up with an infinitely complex environment with a infinitely complex mobile economy that so ivory that you can't predict when it's going to do. You certainly can't control it and you shouldn't and maybe someone somewhere will keep up a bit and then you can copy them. How does a real man- and I it's a good one and it actually good, as it gets away into the climate change debate. So so, because what the left will say is okay. Well, there's market failures, free market seems nice, but there's market failures. You have to admit that I would say yeah. I can admit that it can happen and that's where environmentalism comes from right, there's up there. He exerted lies costs in europe and in that's that's effectively the arguments about climate change, but then He got up at your conservative that back on and say, ok again, a primary tenant.

Conservatism is assessing tradeoffs, because I I would, I would say conservatism is a the governing philosophy. It's a process, oriented philosophy that says that seeks to solve problems within a set of limiting principles and limiting principles means we ask questions like what are the second third order consequences. What's the cost benefit, and that's really what the climate change debate should be about unfortunate? It's not about that. It's about you're a denier and a killer, or you want to save the planet like a good person which one do you wanna, be they moralize over us on it, but it really is fundamentally about about trade offs and so that they can see that the republican mainstream. Action on this, isn't denying climate change shredded its assessing the facts and saying ok only some warming going on the stern, similar warming, I would say I'm just gonna use same data that everybody else's using. Let's use the? U n data which use the intergovernmental panel on climate change and what

what they're saying the costs are: gonna be and so their causes. The simplest way to put this is gathers a cost. and how do we are we quantify that cause? Well, you can look at it this way according to you and began to sign it consensus: we're gonna increased global gdp by forty and fifty percent in a hundred years, well by twenty one hundred with climate change, cause it's gonna, look more like an increase of only foreign and thirty four percent so has a cost, but it ain't that much I'll cables, and so we can we're not denying it, but we are saying look whatever action we take need into being somewhat proportional to that cost, and that would be a good place to start

no, not like lombard. So much is. He was the only and I really interested in environmental issues. I studied them for a long time and tried to figure out who knows what? What bothered me about most of the environmentalist discussion was. There was no rank ordering of priorities, and that was that a really if you want to implement some solutions and I came across lumber going. I thought, hey look, this guy he's gotta he's got a sense. way of actually generating policy out of this rate, put his teams of economists to work and does cost benefit analysis and tries to build. Something approximating what would be a policy generating machine he he takes projections of precisely the sort that you just made into account market failure idea we could. We could talk about that little bit, it's like, while, of course the market fails, because even a d centralized cognitive machine made up of all these millions or billions of human brains isn't going to be perfect, but that's not

issue. The issue is what makes you think that you can jump into that gap with your theory and fix it if the bloody market can't do it, why in the world, do you think you can work as I have, maybe ology yeah you and everyone else and in doing with market failures is, is essentially what politicians are supposed. It is why we create a government to to deal market for those who deal with poverty me. You could argue that poverty Excessive poverty might be a market failure, it's just not getting fixed now you really think about it, you know, there's there's always going to be somebody at the bottom, but you don't want it to be too far at the bottom and so, and so this is. This is where you have a value based judgement, and you have a political arguments about it. You kind of figure out what to do, but you know that the the problem with what the left Does it say this is an indication that the entire system is bad and we need to throw out the foundations are conservative says

occasion. We might need to take some action and we should- and we should be very careful about how we take that. Actually we should so within a set of limiting principles and its that's it. would sell because it gets back to the climate change debate because it's a difficult sell because, because of the liberal will say what do we want action? When do we want it now? What does the conservatives say? What are we? incremental change. Or do we want it in due time, vs exert distributors advisers that that exciting, especially young people, So you know there's a principle in science outcomes. Razor right do not multiply explanatory hypotheses beyond necessity, which is the simplest solution, is by default, the most appropriate. Now the same thing play with regards to problems and that's another conservative advantage in some sense, like no, no, the smallest possible change that will produce the end result right because you don't know what the change is going to do

and and that uncertainty. That's part of that humility of conservatism that you describe. That is something that's communicable to young people. It's like it's not like. We dont think, but will we dont think there are problems, but we're also quite skip call of grandiose solutions and even more sceptical of the people who put them forward and that that's not foolish at all. a much more afraid it, the people dealing with climate change than I am of climate change, as you should think, because what we I mean overthrow this week, were debating this reconsider. sean bill and reconciliation just means that you can pass into the senate, which only fifty one votes in two of the sixty vote threshold required to overcome the fellow buster. and that means it has to be related to budget items. Okay. So it's not that anybody cares about that, but that's what we're debating and within that big three point: five trillion, which is actually closer to four and a half trillion spending.

estimated there there's a lot of its called green new deal provisions and will the green new deal basically, as is massive subsidies for solar and wind massive incentive structures for only solar and wind and renewables, but renewal. They really just define as solar and wind. Okay, they don't like hydro, they don't like nuclear and we'll get to that. So it's that and also a fall. an attack against the island gas industry, which should also trouble canadians pay work were plenty troubled by it should have a share in it when he would even shrewd out is like a wide. You guys cancel the acts of the keystone pipeline. The aberdeen secretly happy about it. Yeah, that's true, but the so is so. The simultaneous attack is is unbelievably dangerous for the well being of people across the globe. It's gonna say

so right away, you're going to see increases in energy prices. How much? How much? What are we gonna see in two years? What do you think three hundred bucks a barrel of oil jeez? No! No! I don't that the the day I see, doesn't see that, but you could get up to ninety, and I just read a wall street journal article today and some estimates are at ninety by the end of the year, just pretty damn high about three hundred I mean, but but I don't know if they pass this bill and it was with and implemented their natural gas tax, which would a lot of our medium sized producers at a business gadget. And also take away, take away the one thing that is decrease carbon emissions, I don't know I don't know, honey ninety levels, that's tracking! How racking now, which Democrat would have predicted that zero at it? Nobody one predicted out man, and you know how that noble

the eye. Nobody electoral note, because it just gonna happens to get free market had just it just gonna happened. It happen because of a government action but the government action was just liberalizing it. It was just irresistible moving a barrier to it and they the export ban that even obama signed, was when we removed the oil export ban of the united states. What did you just create while you created a powerhouse of energy in the united states, and why is that a good thing does that make climate change is worse or better? Well, the question isn't the wrong question really is the question is what is demand for energy around the world and so turns out? and for energy in the next twenty years is gonna, go up almost thirty percent. That's a guarantee, so who's gonna provide that energy gonna, be solar and wind they all estimates, show it's gonna abounded same same proportion, the energy mix and so on,

we're going to be the united states and canada that actually care about environmental regulations and put all these restrictions, and you know on a per unit basis- and this is a this- is unscientific estimate. I it's not the e p, a that did it. It was one of our national labs that did this estimate. A unit of natural gas is forty two per cent less emissions than a russian unit of natural, ass so were cleaner, were like, where objectively cleaner. When we're, when we are giving you oil and gas, and yet this administration, and counter intuitively in an effort to reduce gas prices once opec to increase production sort, attacking us, oil and gas and and trying to get opec to increase their production. This is if you're, trying to solve the problem of reduction of emissions. Does your old had to sit up? They're, not exactly our friends, always know and if they want to put up with very little canada madly in love with you,

it just came from travelling canada. With regards sorry, sorry, I'm just saying you for if we're trying to solve a problem of of. using emissions and then, finally of the problem and the other thing I will, as republicans railways wondering as they second, if you really think this is an existential threat and were done in like we're cooks of years the world was on fire as they always set. Will then, why not just save the trillions of dollars towards the bunch of nonsense Why not just build a bunch of nuclear plants barely one? I just got a bunch of nuclear plants ones. his government. So what's the answer to that now Y know, I, like France, did it their answer is others. Does the true for answer that the public answer is that the real answer that I it is true, but the republicans here or there, their answers, what's expense, Is there safety issues I'm like yeah, but are on a per unit basis? It's it's still a better deal again. If you think I thought I thought, no cost was too high because we're in a in an existential crisis

and so I would assume that you think it's prior to have reliable energy and you don't ever live ones from solar, wind and you'd. Never well. This is impossible and I don't care how far on the battery technology comes it'll, never meet where we needed to meet the just. Won't its physically not gonna happen, and so you need nuclear and you need gas are against it, letting down gas nuclear plants in california in new york- and it's you see it's just it's really mind blowing, so it leads me to believe that they don't actually one they don't actually think it's a crisis and into that they're, mostly driven by special interests in the solar and wind industries that have we captured them again, I'm not against solar and wind. I just think I just think they should fit in where they fit in. I don't think they should be over subsidized. At this point, I think there should be technology neutral subsidies for carbon reduction. That involve nuclear and also involve carbon capture for oil and gas image that if the entire pointers reducing carbon emissions and let's make that the technology goal as opposed to just renew

those because it makes us feel nice- and it really is about feelings- I mean I, I I don't think, there's any other reasoning behind it- father? There is another reason I think is that the media lodge who morass out, of which such ideas emerge is extraordinarily confused and its in over thirty percent anti capitalism and twenty percent. What would you say, resentment about the nature of humanity itself and then forty percent can, about the environment and our depredations, and so you have that makes you can't think. Clearly, it's like well arrest, having the environment yeah, but what about capitalism it's actually the problem to begin with, and so then you get these sorts of solutions emerging and a lot of them are tainted with this terrible destructive anti capitalism and which, to be often more and more important crisis than the environmental crisis itself. You I mean, look at

renewed deal it what s he rode out this sort of like children, science project, It was very little about huge fire better and much more so about the substantive change in health care and the economy, and I It was kind of just kind of saying the quiet part out loud, which we all suspected that this was mostly about. You know the sort of great reset that people talk about it kind of it's kind of more about that than it is climate change. But for for you to to get you to agree to these really substantive, reforms to the sort of revolution in thanking need to scare the hell. You just why Use terminology like the world is on fire and why they point f hurricane and wild fire like this is what climate change looks like many here that all the time, but it's really as if we ve never had hurricanes accounts, if you'd never had wildfires and as if there is not actually a much better explanation for california wildfires, which is poor forest management, Every study shows I did like. Let me get this straight. If we all DR electric,

it goes today every if the united states stops producing carbon today they attend there's no more wildfires. Are you telling me all of our weather starts to look like san diego? You telling me houston's not going to have hurricanes anymore. I think that's nonsense. I mean that's complete nonsense and it's it's not data driven, it's not fact, driven and and and truthfully again go back to un intergovernmental panel on climate change data. If the western world's leave all developed countries the stuff- emitting carbon right now for good. You might get a reduction in temperature of think it's like point eight degrees fahrenheit by the twenty one hundred nor eight rate, that's? What that that's actually within the error bounds? So one of the problems with these climate projections is that if you go over fifty years You can't even tell if what you did fifty years ago had work because the urban become our so big at that point, and that's actually a huge problem.

Is what it means is: there's no way of testing whether your damn solution, your large scale solution, had any effect whatsoever, so how This was to solve a problem like that. It's you can't and better If you care like it's, we don't want to do anything right of men. I listed some things that republicans are in favour of end up primarily nuclear energy and gas. I think think that's a healthy that puts us on a healthy glide path towards reduction in emissions and then looked the other choices The more a country develops the more you industrialize it the more concern they become about the environment, that's another truth, so maybe focus on. Yes definitely also. You know that with the lefty types you think well, they are concerned with poverty reduction. Ok well to do that. Well, how about you make energy real cheap? How about that? Because energy is what does work, and so, if you give that to poor people, for as close to, nothing is possible there. They can do almost everything free. How would that be? So?

Are you? Are you so sure, you're concerned about those poverty stricken people? If you look history, Can you really imagined anything that has done more for them then cheap, Energy and how would that and be possible even metaphysically. She Gee runs everything so cheap Energy means wealth directly virtually no intermediation snarled gonna make every energy all more expensive to produce these trivial. changes in in climate there, we build a measure. What's up with you exactly it's true attitudes that, with such a frustrating conversation, I do think or winning the debate on this, because

It's not a winning argument to say: there's no such thing as climate change, the environment doesn't need our help. That's just people don't want to hear that, but but they will just want to hear something and- and so and that's I think, that's what we've we've we're we're offering at this point, and so I think we're on a healthy track. As Republicans I, I am still very worried about this bill. potential passing, but you know hey, let me ask you about that infrastructure bill. Ok, cause. I mean I've, thought and and talk to many people about this- that you know if the Democrats need something to do because they need to to do and therein power and well maybe infrastructure is in such a bad preoccupation. There's something real about it. Hope,

at least maybe thirty percent of it, which might not be bad. Given you know large projects, waste a lot always and so pros and cons of the infrastructure project. As far as you are concerned, yet the says is two things for for people's understanding this, this reconciliation packaging. Here the number three point, five trillion associated with that's, so that's one thing, then there's the infrastructure, the bipartisan infrastructure deal. It's like one point, two three chilean so lot of money did did the bypass it in future, if your deal substantively is not bad. It has a lot of good things right like what like what? Where do? You see? That's good, it's it's! Just your typical boring infrastructure stuff like like highway funding like port funding, sewage treat, and this kind of stuff, okay, yeah. It's boring when it works. It's legitimately that has legitimately decent infrastructure, our opposition to it and again it's not everybody's opposed to it. But my personal opposition to it is it's it's about four times,

four times too much money, but what do you expect, though, He noticed it if it was cut in half way. At least you could get me scratch my head, like maybe It is important for people to know the substance of it is not bad. It's if the price tag is just too much considering we've spent six trillion on on getting our economy back on on track of her coven, which frankly, was mostly money. Well spent. It's probably some of the best work government has done in crisis, to be honest, especially with the small business loan bro, graham, that we instituted here in the us, but it's In any case, it's not the time to just be throwing money out. The door you know with hyperinflation coming about You just need to be more careful is really are only opposition to the infrastructure bill. So that's what about the three assault- now you separated out the one point two trillion which you're speaking reasonably positively about, for you know a space, suspicious conservative type and then there

three point five trillion, so let's talk about that and you know we give. The fear was that everything would be put into the basket right. Of course that's going to happen, so damn tell it to deter out that yes, the reconciliation package is a series of tax hikes up to over to train. dollars in tax increases, recorders of which will indeed, despite what the Democrats that are lying about this, because we have liberal, think tanks that have done assessments and it will. It will increase taxes on At least three quarters of load of lower to middle income. People will increase your taxes. Is it causes, so many different types of tax increases. I know it's gonna hit you somehow and if it doesn't hit you there's bognor reduce your wages, have already seen how much. Mature people have been hit by about one percent, which is it's not the ton, but it's something, but I think I think, what's worse, about the way democrats to economic policy. It's not like it's going to make your wages noticeably decrease.

Immediately but I'll tell you what they're not gonna increase and- and I have proof of this in if we look at the last fifteen years of data posts. So it's like it too major recessions one covered in one's two thousand, a financial crisis in two different types of two different types of economies to different types of governing philosophies. and the first time was under obama. Will we be more tat when you tax the rich? It is spent money on restructure. That is nearly trillion dollar infrastructure package back then turned out. Everybody agrees. Doubts that turned out to be a wasted did not contribute to the economy. The way we what the shovel ready masked. Ok, everything! That's that's widespread agreement on that in hindsight

At the time may I can understand why you might think that stimulus is important, but an insight didn't work out. Ok, but they are also increasing taxes, you're you're threat to businesses, because you like to regulate them and you knew detained, they tend to see businesses. It is more of a bad actor than a good after that creates investment, jobs of cave and so then so fast, and so what did that create were created plenty, a wealth for the top everybody's mad about inequality under that system, the top still get rich, as they could figure it out. The bottom quintal of earners is stagnant, so that's not a myth. That was true now, after the tax cuts and jobs act and plenty, seventeen sixty trumps, major accomplishment, obviously

anyway. The tax cuts and jobs act. So what do we do? We cut corporate tax rates, cut everybody's tax, cut, cut taxes everywhere, right, tax cuts rapidly and what happens to wages? Well, if you look at the wage growth and the bottom quintile of earners skyrocketed- and it doesn't mean they didn't like drastically reduced inequality. Okay, but as far as the purport proportion goes, a percentage goes. The bottom people were growing much, faster than the top one absolute terms, obviously not, and that's what everybody looks at rather than want to take the data that that they care about. Then it makes their argument stronger, so they'll say yeah, but they made four million dollars more cable there were fifty they had fifty billion dollars of percentage wise. They make that much more, but the lowest quintal in doing this particular

but you know, I don't know what I'm the universe, you could imagine without particular jobs, making that much more, but they were growing. Why? Because? Well, pro growth economic policies create a tight labour market right work to businesses that to compete, ire people who are very tight labour market. Now wages are now thanks to abiding by emotion the pandemic and a few other things better. Wages are pretty high and it is still hard to hire people. You know this bill could reverse that, because I reality is abiding economics is not really hit the united states because they haven't done any them past anything either there they ve created this sort of them. What their general view on business. That is bad and and the increase in regulations has, I think, decreased, invest, but that's hard to measure. I think it's him it is an obvious, but other than that there has been a major shocked at the system, are at a lot of the lot of the shocks or maybe too much spending and also supply chains, problems

which are more related to the pandemic, and maybe it may be a refusal of this administration to do anything about it and loosen certain restrictions. That's a long long anyway, point is, is pro growth send it actually helps increase wages for the low squint. Oliver sets a second ass, a data driven in fact that we can look at over the past decade or so so getting back to Israel aviation package is just doing the opposite since doing the opposite. Circular, reduce wages, more importantly, reduce their potential growth because You also creating an environment. Is your raising corporate tax rates of businesses are just gonna higher less over the sea, oh that gets hurt because of a corporate tax hike. This is absurd, notion that that you're, just like taken it too there were taken into these mean corporations are what these corporations that employ hundreds of thousands of people. They were what what is it

it doesn't mean they should just do whatever they want to know. What is it is the inequality in some sense that the british people, but I heard with regard to two leftist policies that they actually underestimate the severity of the problem of inequality, and assume that restructuring capitalism would remove inequality, and there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that that has ever worked in any way other than the opposite, because inequality is not a consequence of capitalism. It looks like it's almost like a physical property, of the of reality itself. Instead, there are physicists model, the unequal disk fusion of money using the same equipped Is that used to describe the dispersion of gas into a new environment like it's a real? something fundamental it can't be overstated, and it's a real problem right, because who the hell once terribly poor people like that such a catastrophe? But it's not like it's a consequence of

capitalism. It's like come on guys, the didn't think about inequality. Just its look, let's look at the following: math. Bravo, If there's, if you and I are the the sole citizens of country x, you makes it thousand dollars a year, and I make a hundred thousand dollars a year or there's a delta between us of fifty thousand dollars outlets, both double our income. So now you a hundred thousand dollars and I make two hundred thousand dollars all the crap inequality just doubled, because now is the. thousand dollar delta? So it's not always what people Thank you to the question is essentially about because it I don't care that there's a lot of people who were way way wealthier than me doesn't necessarily I mean what what would bother me is if I have no chance of ever being them. If I was the most talented smartest person on the planet, it would bother me if I had no chance of ever being that person and I'm sorry, but this is not the world we live in. You know, there's there's! If we look at it, what keeps you out of poverty and things when the brookings

the truth is like three things: it's like finish: high school have a job, any job it and don't have kids before you're married and you ve got like and ninety seven percent chance of not being in poverty. So it turns out. We do it. society were choices matter in an end you're in the value that you provide matters. The society we want to live in. Is it perfect? No, is it the best we can do yeah, I'm pretty sure it is, and should we have a safety net for those who just can't make it yeah yeah there should be a safety net but later when we should argue about how much of a safety net and ended. The fundamental the negative consequences of that potentially is well right. As it you know, depends safety, nine doesn't make things worse say makes you depends. and makes you are unable, or on wanting to find more work and be productive right. That would be the fundamental question of the safety net, and, and I think they're democratic policies, just generally don't care about that. so can I reagan? Can I beg into the

weeds on the threes. I still don't understand the differentiation between the one point, two trillion and the three point: five trillion. As I got, I got a long way to go on the ladder, so let me let me do it more generally, instead of getting too much into the weeds on the on the taxation, stuff's, okay, so a lot of increase in taxes, lot of increase in spending. A lot of that increase in spending is on things like expanding medic cade right. Expanding medicare, like making medicare benefits more generous, even though, like ninety six percent of the medicare population already gets a dental and vision and whatever. So it's just it's a lot of it's to me. It's a lot of bribery. if they were giving you stuff we're going to fund like the pre k, we're going to fund all of these things to the government governments to do so many things anyway. They ve ever had sticking in this bill again to subsidies, subsidies solar and wind. It is now a new climate bank, whatever the hell. That means I mean for with tens of billions of dollars. Candidates it stuff link.

That is, you know, some of it is extremely threatening. I think too, because of our policy perspective and some of it just credibly waste. So that's where you see the over inclusiveness of the infrastructure development practices. That's where I thing is shovelled into yeah, So again it is separate from the infrastructure bell what we call the infrastructure bell in the reconciliation package. A member I remember when the swift, if you remember when the democrats for talking about human infrastructure, like everything, is infrastructure right right, They put all the human infrastructure into the reconciliation package and the real we kept the real infrastructure in the infrastructure package. So again, substantively speaking, I think the infrastructure package is good. I just think it's too expensive, and so to speaking. I think the reconciliation packages is complete insanity. Ok, let's

close that off there, because we're going to run out of time here I there's some other things. If you don't mind, I wanted to ask you about: will pop out of the political domain to some degree to to begin with. You have a book, he wrote a book not too long ago, and so maybe you could well tell everybody what what the book is and and then talk about that a bit if you'd like to share appreciate it. fortitude american resilience in the era of outrage and came out with this book in April of twenty twenty an interesting time to come out with a book as you can imagine, that was the start of the band and they never really done a book tour. And but it's done pretty well and I think it's done pretty well, because it's sort of you know I I'll be honest. I kind of describe it is like a Jordan peterson, twelve rules for life, but like the JV version, okay, it's like the it's like you get if you're, if you're the, if you're the postgrad level, like I'm, trying to give people a bit more of a highschool level of the similar thing- and I have a very in

typically trying to guide people through how to build more fortitude, more mental fortitude and- and I use a combination. So every chapter is a different lesson- sort of a different concept that I'm trying to ingrain and it's a those lessons and concepts are imparted to the reader through a series of stories from seal teams and through some philosophy for some bible verses and through some pop culture. In a mix of everything I have to. I think it's multi disciplinary and I think it's interesting. I I think it's nick, and I think that's why it's so pretty well and its. Where did you learn? Where did you learn to to be resilient mean after you are terribly injured. You went back and continued in europe or military operations may not seems too I mean some resilience, you know it's. It's your healthy and you're toughen that's part of what's built into it's a gift in some

But then there is the rule that attitude plays and and education, and all of that and I'm I was forged. Enough to meet a number of navy seals in california and got to know some of them quite well and you know, there's a respectable characters and they go through Hell. become navy seals. That's quite interesting. It told me some pretty hair raising stories and Where did you learn to be resilient to the degree that you learned was that mostly military was that mostly a meal, you're a consequence. Of course I can eat development. It gets a consequence of a lot of experiences, but I would be what I write about the birchall. My my first experience and this experience is laid out in an in a chapter called perspectives from darkness and I'm a natal that that chapter, because one of the first foundations of fortitude being you know if we define fortitude as resilience to it and the ability to overcome adversity and

perspective is a pretty good place to start, because if you think everything is worse than it is you're going to have a hard time mentally coping with it? If you have a sense of perspective, you're able to you know what this isn't, that bad, like one of the one of the things one of the things instructors in the bud, since it's seal training repeat to students instantly. Look there's ten thousand men who have done this before you start your complaining. You can do this and that's it. That's like a quick gacek like I don't want to be one of those who just quit him in his ten thousand that have done it before. It's probably more than that to be perfectly honest, but self, but but what I write about is is on my mother has yet I think that was my first real interaction with some time for it Did she she lost her when you were ten yak right, and I also know watch your deal with breast cancer for five years and and I had trouble recalling real suffering on her part, mostly because she hid it from me?

and I have trouble recalling her complain. I have trouble recalling her of a bad attitude. I have lots of other recollections of her being funny of her being nice of her being a good mother like in its That begs the question like: how does how on earth can someone do that? It's extremely difficult and not show that kind of resentment and bitterness and just raise your kids? And so that's that's sort of that's my first hero, your first here to look that's out of all chapter on heroism and, frankly, I got at the summit that philosophy from you on another. I build hero, archetypes and and the proper way to look up to people as as a way to develop yourself in a better way. By- and I say like don't, take an individual like you- don't want to just be

like, Jordan peterson? You want to see what makes them successful, see how he's done well in his life and maybe copy some things from him like. How does he talk to people? How does he think, through things with the thought processes use and how does that apply to the hierarchy? You want to be better at it might be different. Like you know, you might be an academic and you might be in media, might be in sports tickets. Did that the it's different, so you gotta look up to people within your own? John or a relay and in the seal teams is no different, because your. What am I trying to be a better, better seal, the better leader? What makes somebody something that I want to follow? That's like that's chapter to, for instance, when my favorite chapters. It sets a good way to start like I did. You gotta know what you want it if you want to be somebody lives with four dude. You gotta know what that looks like first, but you gotta know it, aspiring to that's a really important gone. You can look at. You can look at what you admire spontaneously like

Obviously you admired your mother spontaneously, and so do that's an instinct. That's not that's, not rational, exactly, although might be hyper rational, in one. We all have that instinct to admire, and that does point us in the direction of what is better yeah exactly and it's just in a practical way and kind of a materialistic way. It's like well just what works and what are the outcomes that actually work for people and what don't and one of the problems with post modernism is is trying to make the things that don't work make them work. Socialism hasn't been tried. You know it's like that kind of thing. I guess it feels get, and- and so you know them than my second rill interaction, I suppose afore Today I would be the military. Amend. Buds is a trial by fire. You come out a different person. You went in and how were you different? How are you begin with risks. Then how do you different languages,

If you come, I mean a luggage. Is, I think, maybe I'll, maybe I'll. Take that back a little bit, I guess I'll say is one thing we've seen this show seems is You were sealed before you got here, we just made you prove it, and then we trained you about that so capacity. It had to be that actually wouldn't make it through how weak other was so yeah at it, but you hadn't, proven if anybody- and he hadn't proven it to yourself once you prove it to yourself- that's something I mean you. He become something a little different, not too different, but it's a little to frank and some people can become cocky right. You want to be too cocky. You want to be confidence, so you definitely become more confident. I don't think you've met. Many seals aren't very confident themselves and so that that's it, but that's it they weren't cocky, they were most of them were unbelievably funny, their unbelievably humorous and- and I think I'm very funny to vienna and I'm not being overly confidence. I think I'm very funny.

I just thought she'd be humility is not an attribute that we have very much of it. So it's a yeah it changes, you admit it. There's a culture like I can identify a team guy really easily. First of all, there's definitely a luck right and there's that in its but there's a witness, thing in their eyes like I can just tell me what you I can just tell, and I don't how to describe it and to be honest with you and because we all kind of come from the same place where we wanted to do this particular job and wanted to go through the hardest training we could find and be in this elite team. Instead

that said? I dunno it just it makes you similar in some way, even though there's, I think, a decent amount of diversity in the teams and as far as backgrounds go as far as backgrounds and wealth come from. I mean it's, it's very, very difficult to it's also very difficult to see who's going to make it through it and this through another chapter, which I call no plan b, and you can't get through buds unless you, unless you decided that you would die before you quit. You have to you, have. Have given yourself no choice in the matter? That's the only way you make it through if you're, like you know what I'm gonna. Just like a marriage. Ok, that's funny story. because one of that one of the things in in the seal teams as the uneasy day was yesterday and that that state motto is plastered on the buds, grinder and so what me and my wife did knowing understanding that that there's somebody somebody could parallels between seal trading, marriage, we went

Furthermore, weddings out has ratified it outside the OECD was yesterday at its it's. It's sort of this quit attitude in this understanding that, like it's, only things get harder? If so, what deal with it? That's than an embrace it, embrace the suck and I'm just kind of using slogans from the seal teams at this point, but but they had they have quite a bit of meaning associate with and embrace the was that mean fundamental? They have meaning because people are actually acting them out for not empty slogans. It's so they might be comical represent oversimplified represent. stations, but there's something actually happening, and I like that particular one embrace the because actually gets to another chapter in the book, which is simply called do something hard and the whole point of of this discussion is embrace suffering. I'm not saying embrace like swimming with sharks cause you can suffer swimming with sharks and getting bitten like that. Would suck, but I

self imposed, suffering right and so like budget, and how weak and everything we do in cetera it all is self imposed like you do, you do have it in the back of your minds like I'm not going to diamond actually going to die, feels like I'm going to die, feels like they're trying to kill me, but but I know I know that they're going to save me. If I start drowning and people do drown and up, but we saved them, that's funny, but it's it's it's it's it's horrible, but but that there's that, but there's a real value to seeking out challenge and suffering. This is why people do spartan races. This is why people comes again. They love groups suffering too. This is why people go go organize themselves at crossfit gyms and do these crazy things when you go climb, a mountain right is it for the view that you climb the mountain for the view now I know you did it did the means or the entire point like that. The path that you took was the entire, pointing it's hard and on that I think that

pretty normal an intuitive, and I think that's been really fundamental tenant of americanism for a very long time and I think we're losing it, which is why I felt it write about it more in his car, remind people of why these things are important. I think anything novel in my book at all, Well, you know our conservative right I just I just really gets a height is they got. I did was take all the best ideas from history and try to leave him out for people, because you know if you, if you're trying to, it was something novel. These days is its second chance that you're probably just wrong about it, because it has stood the test of time. I think it very air that there's gonna be really new insights and in today's world, and it might, I think, I think the new insights are really just the old ones like personal responsibly, what and doing hard things and challenging yourself and just in feeling good about a challenge, even if it sucks, even if it's an injustice, I dive into that quite a bit in that because he's that's people's next question. That's like work, how can you say

suffering is get like even injustice, even things that happened, you like what? If what, if you lose your eye and go blind man like words out well, then just look at the silver lining I fitted I'm over, simplifying it quite a bit. I there's a much, I think, deeper discussion in the book, but it really does to simplify to look at silver lining just because there is an injustice done against. You doesn't mean you have to tell yourself that story doesn't mean you have to tell yourself a story of being a victim. You can be a vector even if its false, like, even if you really are victim now. I think people over victimized themselves these days to an extra

or degree. I think they they'll either lie about their victimhood or they or they associate victimhood with bad luck. You know and there's a difference right and in either case, though it doesn't actually change how you should react to it, and you can react like a person with fortitude and tell yourself a story of of being better for it and being a vector or you can set yourself story being a victim and see where that leads. You and I promise you won't lead you anywhere good. I think that's a perfect place to stop. There's a bunch more things: we'd like to talk to you about, but you know we we, we traversed a lot of ground and you can have a bad anytime. You now good diet, you you thanks. We for coming but I'm pretty sure I was I can I come on your podcast stored. That's actually what happens? I appreciate it.

I am really pleased to have you on it. I I really appreciate it talking to you and there are other things I'd like to talk to, but in the future I didn't archie, but you know potential political ambitions and many other things, but let us this was good so and that ended well so They drank slowly and really appreciated. Thanks for your surprise, you no thank you they are really I know I m mix were protected by a ring of people who put themselves on the line to make sure we have the freedom to complain, legionella. I never really thought of seal teams a service because there was there was this adventure for us. If you like it, if you know that best, he was actually the part black rifle coffee with them wrote a book called. Thank you for my service and I think that actually gets really to the how a lot of veterans feel about their service. Like I gotta go,

that of aeroplanes and go get a blow things up with my best friends. I don't understand how this service- this is great and yet sometimes illusion I but you signed up for it. I will say politics fizzle out what like surface the facts. Say that puts a zero glory at it. But it's important- and you know that's that's fulfilling- that's why I do it. Hey man thanks a lot and for the invitation to the youth summit yeah they were going to keep when we get dates for next year. We're going to keep bugging you about it. So loved up would love to see you there, hopefully how's your health. Are you feeling better yeah, I'm still like running about seventy percent, but that's better than two.

It's a hell of a lot better than to his yes, so thanks. Seventy four use the lad a lot more than most people, but we need you. The world needs you please, please take air was good luck with your political duties and hopefully will talk to him all right. I need it. They started.