Hi everyone I'm pleased to announce the release of my new book beyond order. twelve more rules for life. I've been thinking for quite a while about What I would do to announce this book and what popped into my mind constantly was that start the announcement with a thank you to all. I viewers. listeners and readers for the tremendous support, You ve shown to my work in all its forms and for the moment intuitive kind and thoughtful and often area date, moving letters that you sent to me and him family and comments that you ve left on you to bend another four. of social media. I've been constantly amazed

and I mean constantly- and I mean amazed by the volume of correspond That has come my way and by the continual support- I have received from so many people, and so I am pleased to have. Been of use. I am pleased that people found my last book. Twelve rules for life Helpful and engaging- and I hope very much that the same thing- will prove true of this new book. I am going to read the twelve Rules from this book and I'm going to read some excerpts from it so that you can get a sense of the book. These twelve rules, like the twelve rules in the previous book.

we're drawn from a longer list of forty two that I published on Quora rule one. Do not carelessly denigrate social institutions or creative achievement rule to imagine who you could be And then aim single mindedly at that rule. Three do not hide unwanted things in the fog rule for notice that opportunity lurks where responsibility has been abdicated. five do not do what you hate rule six, abandon etiology rules,

Evan work as hard as you possibly can on at least one thing and see what happens rule eight. Perhaps my faith try to make one room in your home as beautiful as possible. Rule nine. If all memory still upset, you write them down carefully and completely rule tat. plan and work diligently to maine in the romance in your relationship rule eleven do not allow yourself to become resentful, deceitful or arrogant and rule twelve, be grateful in spite of your suffering, each of these rules is accompanied by

an illustration, as in the case of my previous book this time the illustrator is usually a photograph and she's done, I think, a lovely job. We held a competition for the illustrations and she her work was at least in my opinion, the best of the bunch and she's produce these lovely artworks that havoc classical fairy tale appeal, and so I think they had a bit of beauty to the book. Why be And order, what is the genesis of that title? How did you arrive at that title as far as I can tell in the Will value so, let's think about value for a minute. If you move towards something you value, it. Otherwise, you would move towards it. You there's an old joke about

Chicken is. Why did the chicken cross the road announcing that is well. He thought the other side was better well that's, that's the case? You know them in order. We need a gradient value to organise our action and we have to prioritize, because you can't do everything at once, and so you do the thing that's most important right now. and that means you're in a world of importance and that's a value. That: that's a value world and the value world, as far as can tell has two broad components: the dollar store. About a decision in the egg and, broadly speaking, its order chaos and we're tends to be represented with me. killing symbols and chaos tends to be represented for feminine with feminine symbols. Doesnt mean Order is male and chaos is female and you know I've been

pilloried for this, even though its hardly my proposition, but that the idea of the patriarchy. is a symbolic it its use of masculine symbolism to represent order. So anyways order. is where what happens? order is you're in order win. You want to happen happens when you act, and so That's reassuring, because not only do you get what you want, but the fact that you get what you want indicates that your theory about how to get what you want is true and every If you fail, you don't get what you want, but you also undermine the validity of the theory that you're using to organize your perceptions and your actions. That's partly why people don't like to fail, because you don't know how far back that can ah echo

How far down your hierarchies presuppositions that can echo if your clinically depressed every month, failure means your worthless human being you never know when a failure is going to demonstrate that you know it it can. In any case, and there is chaos in order that the two great domains and you to contend with chaos, because too of it overwhelms you you drown in it. It's the flood that happens when your life gets beyond you and you're somewhere, where no matter what you do nothing, you want happened it's a domain of terror and pain. Now, it's all the domain of unlimited possibility, outside of what you know is everything you don't know, and theirs Untold riches to be gathered from the domain of everything you dont know, but that doesn't mean it,

still needs to be managed. It's dangerous. Now the domain of orders the same way like if, if order comes to extreme. Then everything becomes cramped. It becomes too military in and then that starts to pathology That's the dying king, the king, whose die for lack of the water of life, is the old tyrant can no longer see beyond his own presuppositions, and so my first book and traded more on pathologies of chaos and and this book more pathologies of order there There are matched sat and in that regard, in so far as I was successful in doing that- and you know liberal types. There are very sensitive to pathologies of order and the conservative types, are very sensitive to pathologies of chaos but they're both right? It's just There's, no final solution to that problem. You're stuck with.

it's an existential it's in eternal existential concern? That's why logical languages standard across people is no matter who you are new matter when you live, you always have to deal with the fact that some things escape your competence, And no matter where you are no matter who you are you have to, you have to adapt to the fact. the existence of a value structure that shared across a social group as the fun mental, so those are fundamental, constituent elements of human experience. Can we symbols for them. Can we I understand the symbol so, for example, in pinocchio this is I'm not going to go into this because it's too complicated but. no one box out a puppet. going to the bottom of the ocean and being solved by a whale. Why, It makes no sense, does nothing about them. That makes sense right,

Not it's, obviously not an empirical description of the objective world, but it's so clearly real that a four year old can follow. It. it's a mystery. You know the whale breeze fire in pinocchio. It's a dragon and. Why is that ball? We face dragons forever. What a human being is it's a creature that faces the dragon. dragon can burn you to a crisp, but it has what you need? That's the world. It burn you up. But it has well, you need, and so The question is: how do you start from getting burned up and get what you need and that to that is that you mould yourself into the hero and- the religious story? and you say well, is it true, announcer canaries depends

What do you mean by true Have you been all that's a weasel answer in some ways, but it's not it's, because it's such a deep question that it can be put forth without delay assessing the definition of true, so it's is dead. the question as what is true now you know it could be that the I would say that part of the cultural war A criticism of the maltese of the Hero- that's darrow, does. Fellow go centralism, western culture, His fellow eurocentric, I would say human culture is fellow goose, fell, go centric. I think they're there was about out its human culture, its its man, so to speak, against nature of, although sometimes Man against culture, and sometimes it's man against man- it's manic

Nature and we triumph as the hero, and maybe that story isn't true or is correct, but that's us and if it isn't correct well, then evolutionary abortion. That's who we are, and I would say well before you throw it aside. Maybe you should try. It. you, don't have a better option: anyways and london, and there are. What does it mean to try? It mostly I would say it means it means to It means to practise love and not me, means assume that things are valuable and act accord. To that assumption- and it requires truth, which is don't say what you know to be untrue, when I tried to unpack the first

of genesis in the context of broader biblical narrative. What appears, be happening. Is that. there's a proposition that god is guided by love and uses. Truth to create, if something like tat and Maybe love is something like the wish that all being would flourish. There isn't a better story than that. What effect do you hope you're new book to have another? It might seem like a lazy question, but I'm gonna keep keep it broad just be interested to hear your thoughts. What's what would what would be success? A successful effect

for this book? Looking back twelve months from now twenty four months from where I would light, it would be lovely if it had the same effect on people as the last book appeared to have me. No one, I mean its comforting to me to read through youtube comments, oddly enough that isn't generally place. People would go for comfort. You know what. Untold numbers of people have said to me in person, but publicly and in that way, that they put their lives together, at least in some ways, and you talk about viktor frankl You know when I wrote maps of meaning I said well, I was interested malevolence. I was deeply affected by

counts, I'd, read of what happened in the second world war and in germany and what happened in the soviet union and in china. These horror. Shows that characterize the twentieth century. constrain, malevolence and so study malevolence. You start to understand what the opposite of that is. positive malevolence is something like the heroes journey. You know it It's easy to be cynical about that, but it's not that Is it because if you're cynical about that, then you undermine your own life. And everyone knows this: this is the other thing that so interesting. Everyone knows this, you know teach someone you love to lie, you're always apply. If you have a son were daughter. Your is appalled if they dont tell the truth.

You know in the deepest part of your heart that if you don't tell the truth, the world falls apart. And that's actually true is beyond I order twelve or more rules for life will flip that in the scream not to be offensive. Thank you for sending it to me, but I personally like this one more than the first one. Are you hearing that ally? I'm hearing that more than I expected and unhappy about that, I mean you hope that each thing you do somewhat better than the last thing you did. If your fortunate It wasn't obvious to me that I couldn't tell if was the same quality worse better. I tried to make it better and I would say that's the general response. So far,

Like Michael Jackson, putting out thriller and then putting out thriller two and thriller two is somehow better so good for you, I love it. Okay. What we're going to do today is twelve questions with jordan peterson to celebrate twelve more rules. Are you I always see breeds more rules everybody always celebrates more rules and laws. Because then I get a break. Those rules, just like you, talked about the harry potter characters which are going to get into in my last book in beyond order. I talked to forbid about harry potter and yet a lot of the people who like to take part chance it be took part shouts about, because you know, I don't know they think harry potter beneath notice or something, but you know I kind of noticed the jake, a rolling made several billion dollars, building the biggest entertainment enterprise of the decade and rose herself from a single mother status, unemployed, single mother status to richer than the queen, and then

you bite every movie screen for like ten years, maybe something's going on there. While these complex characters they play out mythology you no one is so. If religion disappears in the culture in general, it pops up in our stories instantly. That's exactly. What's happened in the marvel universe and what happened even have thor. For god's sake, thor is a god yeah yeah, it's not even it's not even subtle yeah. You can get rid of these stories. They may come back, no matter what you do. These stories come back. So what was what was jk rowling doing with the with harry potter,

it's a battle between good and evil. Voldemort is satan, for all intents and purposes yeah. So it's it's it's the battle between good and evil. I mean the second volume in particular, is ST george and the dragon it's Bilbo and the dragon harry fights a giant snake that is under the castle. It's the same story as the lord of the rings and that's the same story as as, what's the original story, hobbit yeah, but far before that? Well it the oldest story. We have of that sort is a mesopotamian creation myth where a god named marta attacks, a giant dragon named tiamat, and that's one of the oldest religious tracts that we have it's symbolic of humanity right. The human being goes out there and encounters the terrible unknown, often in reptilian form and that terrible unknown. While that's why that terrible, unknown is often evil itself and so in christianity. You get this weird intermingling, for example,

the snake in the garden of eden with Satan, not obvious. Why there should be a connection here. You snake is like what what's the worst snake, it's not a snake snakes as such words, not snakes, subjects predators as such reptilian predators wait a minute. It's not reptilian predators such its enemies. Human enemies, it's the enemy in our own soul. That's the progression of the thought, unbelievably sophisticated? How does it go from vainly sophisticated? How does it go from enemies to the enemy, central and our own, so well we're who's your worst enemy. If it's not you who's your biggest obstacle. If it's not, you. And who do you contend with more than anyone else? If it's not you and to the harry potter thing, Harry potter has a piece of voldemort in him. Yes, That's it that's the original sin doctrine recreated, so it's also

is that he can't understand evil without it. It's also part of what makes him sophisticated right, because these touched by it progressive you get twenty four seven protection. Even if you break the space time continuum, time travel to yesterday he weight progressive covers is twenty four seven, but we just created an eighty week and it's twenty four seven coverage, not twenty four eight we got to go back. Are you joking right now, I'm calling them hi. I have a question about time. Travel progressive for more than a great price. When you bought and illuminato, we offer round the clock protection, which literally means anytime coverage from persecution. Companies will use it, thereby insurers and cyclical policy terms, but it is not available in all future situations. Home They say it's where the heart is now also say it's wherever you may get the outside its. Will you and load your stuff get tired halfway through unpacking you, some boxes, furniture realise governments in a box it doubles, is a night stand, don't want to buy a new nightstand and use a tall as an oven, mitt, instead,

But no matter where you go home geico makes it easy to bundle and save on renters in car insurance, easier than grabbing piping, hot ban or the town it's a bit too thin and trying to quickly get it to the counter. So Are we gonna do is just copy the bible like we don't have a choice. Where what you mean by that it happens whether we want to or not I mean the bible aggregated itself over centuries. right. I mean no human being directly oriented that it get. It's not something that could happen over thousands and thousands of years. This is just the greatest hits. That's one way of thinking about it. Yes, and each one of these heads taps into something innate to us. Yes, otherwise we wouldn't remember it. We would

if we wouldn't have conserved, it wouldn't stick in our memory. It wouldn't structure the way we think, let's dive into the book, because actually so many of the things that we're talking about now are are sort of part and parcel to it to all of the chapters here. So so you're one, and what I really liked about this also is the way you organize did that, the new topics, because the questions we would get off in the in the queue and that you would get is was there was there are thirteen to rule that you couldn't get in the book in, and you actually mention this in the book that new, you add what about forty six other was a facility to forty two you had forty museum is douglas atoms answer to the universe, life, the universe in everything, forty two rules which was actually a coincidence, but I thought it was chemical in the aftermath of there's forty two rules, so now I've written about twenty I've written essays about on twenty four of them. How did when you got to forty two? How long did you give it before? You said? Okay, forty two is enough because I know you're pretty good did it in an afternoon. The original list of rules I was playing on Quora

I wrote about forty answers for core or something like that, and I really haven't partaken in that forum for a long time now I was investigating it in. Some kid. It asked what, but you need to know in order to lead a good life for what's most important to know something like that, and I thought well, we know crack and answering this- and I made this list of forty two rules and it got very. popular own Quora, much more popular typical pay no distribution like that one answer got more views than all of my other answers put together, and so I thought this kind of interesting. You know I'd touched something for some reason get out of that when I was asked by an agent who contacted me Sally Harding of of of of cook agency, She asked me if I was interested in writing something more popular, and I knew that those rules,

found an audience so that seem to me to be a place to dive in. anyways I've only written about twenty four of them in the two books. So there have them both. Here you can see how their other structure be ones by it and the others black they make a match set. You can read each of them independently and why concentrates the first one an antidote to chaos, twelve rules for life and chaos does concentrate on the corner, quinces of excess uncertainty and the sex, but concentrates more on an excess of of of order, both of those fundamental existential dangers as far as I'm concerned, in this universe of value in the world of value. There are two major domains and one domain is the domain of order, and you can technically d I it the domain of order- is where you find yourself: win you're doing produced

the results you want- and that's that's already tight formulation because it gives particular idea of water of what a play. in time is place and time you occupies at any given moment, is the place and time that's defined by your current goal and You have a map of value that guides you through that the actions that are necessary in that domain and if the result is what you want, which brings motivation and emotion into the picture. Then, while what you need or want, but you all validate your theory of existence it because it's good enough produce the results that you desire and given you're fallible in that you dont, know everything you have to use. proximate. You have to use pro simple truths, and something is its pragmatic. It's it's a form of philosophical pragmatism, europe

if you make a bridge and it stands up, then you know how to make a bridging. Why? Because the bridge stood up now. Maybe you over built it. You could have built it more elegantly, but is sufficient The true so did functions and we're like that. Like engineers were cobbling together solutions all the time and as long as those solutions work, we assume that we're right. Well, that's That's the domain of order, the domain of chaos emerges when you lay out a plan and into action and something other than what you wanted emerges, and sometimes that can be a catastrophe and absolute catastrophe and in your brain, are our cycle physiological are go, physiology is actually adapted to those two domains. When something unexpected happens,

sort sorts of emotions and motivations break loose and flight among them. Anger among them gets this inhibited because when you don't know what's happening, you have to prepare for everything you get anxious and then you hyper per which is extremely stressful, and so the domain of chaos is extremely stressful. In small doses, it's exhilarating and that's because Well, where you don't win your where you don't know what's happening, you have the opportunity to learn and to spanned, your map and soul, there is always an interplay between the domain of chaos in the domain of order, but they can each pathology, isn't the pathway he's of uncertainty are more associated with anxiety and nihilism and depression and where's pathologies of order more totalitarian and then I would say as well the liberals, liberal types, the more left times are quite sensitive to theology of order. They don't like them there than that

the patriarchy, the patriarchy is Pathology of order- and it's simple quickly masculine something I've been. You know taken too ask for claiming, but the patriot, gay itself. The idea of the patriarch itself is a symbol, the pay turkey is a symbol. That's what has such power It's a symbol that refers to the domain of order. now the domain of orders protective as well as oppressive, but when it degenerated, becomes oppressive, and I would say, degenerates when it's based on power rather than competence, but it can be based on competence? It only the marxist critics and and then at the end of the politically correct types, they insist that, every element of the patriarchy is only a concert one of the imposition of order, forceful imposition border, it's all power, while no, no, it's

when it degenerates. That's true, because you can tell that because the thing is: the domain of order will be upheld by those who inhabited if functional if you have to use or stats already an indication that has become pathological because people playing voluntarily So so, when you say were were in a degenerative cycle right now that the cycle seems more degenerative, then then say a building cycle or you think that that's just the that's just play, that's always going on in and you have to figure out your role in it. Why? the play is always going on. There's like and I dont think, like the antidote to chaos, isn't order and then to order, is chaos. The antidote to both is the balance right and the active balancing of them, and now

we are used to do this a lot. You would say the balance, the struggle between liberal and conservatives. So people see me doing this all the time I was credible. Jordan was talking about you're talkin about this, but so thing that's all- it's really important. It's really important to understand that that the that the the note to chaos in the final analysis can't just be ordering his order itself can degenerate, and so believed that the antidote is active. Engagement with the world, honest active engagement with the world truth- and I it's also truth motivated by love, which is motif that runs through this second book in particular, and love is the desire for all things to flourish in in in the crisis. That you should love your enemies and that that's an into that, What does that mean- and it's really worth thinking about- is you should wish your enemies harm in it's like an bye bye

a night, what I mean by that is that it would be better for everyone if they would Themselves so that they would flourish that doesn't mean you shouldn't defend yourself. It doesn't mean that that soldiers aren't necessary or the police. It doesn't mean any of that. It's not a weak kneed statement. It means that if you're, if you have your if you have your. if you have yourself pointed in the right direction,. You don't wish excess of hormone on the world you wanted to flourish, that's love, so you weren't yourself. That way- and I do That requires a certain courage because- The world is so flawed and so painful, there's so much suffering in it. That's very difficult to fall in love with it. You keep getting biased, if you think this is so terrible that maybe it shouldn't even be that takes you down a very bad road so it's love first and then truth serves that and I do think that's the mode

if that runs through the old and new testaments, that the combination of those two things love is the the desire that being flourish- and And I do believe the truth serves that That's all Please measure that. Well, I also that people find meaning in that and were you gonna, everyone can answer this for themselves. It's like you have to work. And you have to see where it is, that you find the meaning that sustains your life, and I would say it certainly not been my experience that people find that in deceit or hatred They may be tempted by that. They may have the reasons for it, but. Everyone is ashamed of that and wish it could be otherwise

and if they don't know what to do about that. As you pointed out, I'm going to hold up these books. So this is the new book beyond order and it does concentrate on pathologies of structure and the previous book, which is twelve rules for life, an antidote to chaos and the the underlying presupposition there is that in phenomenal, logical landscape. So that's the world as we experience it, complete with emotions and motivations and dreams, and so the full of human experience, including this directive and the object of let's say, can broadly be broken into two domains, and one is the domain of things that are beyond our grasp and reach and that's the unknown The unknown emerges when the unknown emerge, as you too do experience, anxiety and then there's that the no and I define the known very specifically and in very carefully the known is the place you are when what you're doing

result produces the results. You want, and I say want because that bring motivation and motion into the game. So your motivated to pursue something you pursue it and what you want happens. Not only do you get what you want, but you get validation for the structure that governs your perceptions and your actions. Now, if you, you know, imagine that you're. You know. You're lonely and you approach a young woman in a in a social situation and attempting to make some contact with her you, you want to alleviate your loneliness, and so you hope you make a good impression, and you tell joke let's say in relatively cool manner and you get rebuffed, then you will you you you're no longer where you control longer where you exercise control, and that brings up all sorts of spectres in immediately is like what. Why were you reboot

well. Maybe all women are to be despised. That's one theory! Maybe there's something deeply wrong with you. Maybe you're having an off day. Maybe it wasn't a very good joke, and so, when you don't get what you want, then a landscape of question emerge questions emerge and those questions can resonate through different levels of your identity. From the tribune Oh, I told the joke wrong to the profound there's: nothing desirable bout me and I'll be alone for the rest of my life. Now you asked about I daddy- and I use the example of a child's game, but I could go through an identity is so I do this protection indian maps of meaning and sold. For example, let's say I'm sitting typing okay, we could decompose my identity so at the highest level of resolution, I'm moving my fingers, and so that could be my identity. I'm the thing that moves it's fingers and then slightly at a slight.

The broader level than that, I'm typing words and on a broader level, I'm typing phrases and thanking them up and then senses and then paragraphs and then chapters and then, let's say full papers or books that that's it It's a productive unit. So I'm the author of a book or the author of a paper: that's an identity, but then that's nested inside. For me it would be nested inside being a clinical psychologist being a professor being a good citizen and then that's nested in some insights. That's even broader than that, and I would say that that's nested inside a cultural heroism- and I dont mean that specific. To me, I mean that for every one, that's the outermost levy, whether you're playing the role of hero adversary, say: that's that's the highest possible level of identity. That's the level

which fundamental morality is adjudicated and there isn't really anything beyond outside that is its beyond, sits the transcendent itself and you're all of those at any one time. You're all of those levels identity, but those are all practical right. So those are the rules that you're playing in the world. All of those are a consequence of who you are, but in interplay like in this situation with the child. All of that negotiated with other People, and so if you have a functional identity, you see, if you functional identity? When you acted out in the world, then you get what you want and need, and if an identity doesn't do that, while you should either rachel or your identity or you re tool. The world. Your generation on the world well, if you're retooling, you're conception of the

Then you retooling yourself. No, you can actually mean what a revolutionary does is, try to bring world, into alignment with little chain. Earring, yes, litter, one we all do that to some degree, because we are practical engineers. You know I mean not. We do we perceive the world, but we also interact with it so that it does manifest itself in accordance with our desires these limits, obviously to how far you can go or how far you should go with that. You know and what are the limits while there's practical limits, nature won't do what you wanted to unless you're very sophisticated in europe. in your application of your knowledge and other people will object. So now you might say why you should forge forward regardless of their.

Jackson- and you know there are circumstances under which that's true, but, generally speaking, that's not a very good idea. It certainly doesn't make you popular as a child and so that brings up one other issue. I would also say- and this I developed this idea quite a bit in the new book- you for me go centralism, ass, a child. You have to go through this period. you're socialized as child and adolescent, and that really means that, who allow your identity to be more. Been shaped by the group? And you know you about how important peers, friends and peers are to children and adolescents You know your mother will say when you're a teenager. Well, if Johnny jumped off the bridge, would you too and you say well, no, but the real answer is well probably friends or they are taunting you. You would in fact jump off the bridge

not only that, generally speaking, you should because it's your duty, it's your developmental duty as a child and a teenager too. take your your isolated self and turn it into us a function. Social unit. Now you could say why do you petersen want everybody to be a functional social unit, a robot. You know a cog in the wheel, and I would say well that that isn't where development stops, it has go through that period before you can emerge as it as a genuine individual, which means you have to know. The rules of the game before you can break them, but not being able to abide by the rules is not anything like being a genuine creative, individual. Those are not the same thing and there's plenty of attempt to confuse the two things, because it's much better. If you can't follow,

rules to view yourself as a ah avant garde illusionary than as a failure, and it's not I dont know that that so morning crushes, obviously it crashes, and everyone feels that these are existential problems. Every one deals with the tyranny of culture and the fact that it does want you to be a certain way and not other ways and those ways might not be in keeping with your with you're the deepest elements: your nature. While tough luck for you, you, because you are also the beneficiary of culture, and so you have to offer it your pound of flesh. Now shouldn't do that at the expense of your soul, but you should. stay and immature child other either brazil. This notion of identity that were being fed is very, very it's very thin. What are we being fed by various block

well. There is the idea, for example, that your identity is whatever you say it is and that everyone else has to go along with that. No, that is now it works, partly because now one even knows how to go along with it like, let's say just, for example, that europe gender known binary, ok, what am I supposed to do about that man? I don't know hardly know what to do if the rules are already there. So let's say I grow up. I want to being

heterosexual, mail. I want to find a woman fall in love with her raise a family. Have children have grandchildren, that's a game. I know the rules to it, not well, because everyone's a failure at that you know it's very difficult, but at least you kind to know what the goal is, and so does the person you're with. While you leap out of that which is already terribly difficult. You leap out of that into completely unknown territory. Saying That I am presenting yourself as something other than those categories leaves everyone around you and you completely bereft of direction you put it? Why are you just words that I get from your material? So when I heard you just say to me, if I'm wrong is part of the negotiation that we do from the time. We are little kids and figuring out that play were up on the bridge. We jump, maybe because we want you know fit in with our peer group.

it, there is a sense of order to that now. You've been very careful and that will drive me crazy if people respond to this interview, as if you have not already illustrated that it is the balance between two opposing forces, but so we need enough order so that somebody can find their way through the world and that many, I think, a big part of the reason that your work has resonated. So profoundly with people is their excuse me. They are left in a world where they don't how to move forward in a way that serves them, spiritually practically as well, for sure so why everybody both of those both of those practically shades into Thirdly, as you move up into the broader reaches of identity, no one look this. This one of the things I relayed this out in maps of meaning it took me along

time to understand that belief, regulated emotion. So what happens is that if you act out your identity, if you act out your beliefs in the world and what you want doesn't happen, what happens your body defaults into emergency preparation for action and the reason for that is we ve wandered too far away from the camp fire and now you're in forest, and maybe you naked what do you do that and the answer is what you don't know what to do. So what do you do when you don't wanna know what to do and the answer is you prepared to do everything and the problem with that? Is that it unbelievably draining cycle physiologically, I get hurt you and others an immense physiological literature detailing the cost of of of exactly that kind of response, and so people need people and animals. They people stay where what they do has the results.

want. That's partly why you want to be around people who share your cultural presuppositions. Is because you know that, for example, even in small ways, let's say: you're a country, music, aficionado and you're hanging around with your cowboy headed bodies and you throw on a tape, and everyone says great tunes man, you know you're happy about that, but you know you thrown a piece. If and you're you're in a different sub culture who the hell are. You and people of the people in your group will say man who listens to music like that and, unlike that's a trivial exam, in some sense, but I believe it's one that everyone can resonate to. We like we it's very hard on us not to be where we know what we know that what we want is going to happen. We hate that we hate that and no wonder so and then you know there are varying degrees of that. Obviously you can really

beware, you don't know what's going to happen or you can only be there to some degree, but by and large, by and large we're conservative creatures. Even if we're liberal and temperament there's not. We cannot tolerate that much answer tea and you might ass well? Why, in the answer as well, because you can be hurt pain, you can be damaged, you can become intolerably anxious and you can die so it's no wonder you're, since they were very sensitive to negative emotion and so our identities rate, functional identity regulates your emotion, but you do that in concert with other people. Doing as for other people is actually more rewarding than virtually anything else. You can do you know when you hear you should be of service to other people, well, if you actually watch yourself.

You pay attention to yourself and you do something that help someone else and genuinely helps them. I defy you to find other experience. That is satisfying. It's actually quite stunning. Satisfying. That is. and so that's a very useful into realise, and why is why isn't helping and the other person the most satisfying thing for probably most people when they're? If they're, you know out of their ego of like, I want to buy more things to make me happy in this moment. Why is that, such a size. I find favour him beings, there's no better strategy for there's, no better life strategy. I mean imagined I can give you a quick sort of tat. For example, some magic. I take to people- and I say: ok. gonna give you a hundred dollars you have to give some of it to the person right beside you, and they can.

their agree or disagree with this split? But if they disagree, you don't get anything. Ok, so a classical economist would say that the person should take the hundred offer the next to them a dollar and the person should accept it, because I know how to get a dollar instead of nothing and that's the solution, what happens is that if you don't offer that other person something close to fifty fifty there they didn't tell you to go to Hell. Yes, very, linking nothing! You get! Nothing. Do you think I would people do that because they just reject fifty dollars and who cares the answer is well, we don't just play one game with other people. We play a repeating game, so imagine we did this. Imagine it's a crowd and there are watching you and I offer you one hundred dollars and you have to share it with the person next to you, and you say, would you like to.

take seventy dollars and the person says, I'm not sure that fared you. But if it's ok, yes, Then everyone else sees that and now they will have an opportunity to pick. Crews are going to play with the next. Well you're not gonna get pissed pick last. Are you remember what you told me you didn't want to get picked last right, not okay. So you did. Was you turned yourself into an athlete machine, Ok, first, ok, great so, but imagine we expand that gave us and we, you want to be the person that everyone wants to play with the well then You have in your whole. Life is invitations to play or how and how are you going to be the person be productive, straightforward. Generous make everyone else better around you play with you. So there you go and then you get to play

well? How is that not the best possible deal? It's clearly seated. So I saw the region if, if the ethical argument is put proper, It is by far the most compelling argument, so if you want to have everything you could possibly want and more then be the person. The better person you are the more likely that is to happen. That doesn't mean you that you're completely protected against getting cut off at the knees. There's no better strategy, and you can you Think about it selfishly- and I talk about this to some degree beyond order. Let's say you: let's, that I'd you wanna be selfish. You think that's the best possible strategy. Why should I care about others.

Okay, let's say you should only act in your own best interest. While then, it's like, what's your best interest, while what Does interest mean and what does you mean? What's in your best interest, your best interest, three mysteries? What's your what's best, what's enter, ok, bothers you, but you're. Just you right now You you and Tomorrow and you next week and you next month and you in five years and you and here's knew when you're a pensioner. You're a community of selves stretched across time. And so, if you were enlightened and selfish you, in a manner that would benefit that entire community across time.

And I don't think that's any different than acting on the best possible part for other people. I think they're the same problem, so I think, as soon as human beings discovered the future. We we know, we were no longer singular. Individuals were instantly each community and then the community ethic prevails in the community. Ethic is. I want to win in a way that makes you win. That's the best possible victory it. My way I can upload elsewhere. Then was the point. While you think it's a zero sum game, it's either you or me, or maybe I want the comparative status, but I would say, even if you want the comparative status, let's say you just you be motivated by that what

What would confer upon you, even hypothetically, more status than to be the most popular person well being chosen for games mean you think about it. Just think for a second about, as it struck me, that biogas graphical peace alfred out there. Who is the psychologist that I talk you, but earlier he said one of his claims was that many people have a like stark memory that set the course for their life. That's true! a great instance loom, and you have exactly that- you so admiring psychology would be of great interest to you. I suspect. But but partly you see what happened? Was you how to true revelation? You thought I if I'm being picked last, Something is wrong and that absolutely right, it's unbelievably right and you played it out first in the

like domain, but as you have to start somewhere right, so that's a good place to start job. Was tellin me when we talked this week. Is this tough character, man? You know when he got up and I'm not telling tales out of school here here. Being a criminal, no problem, and he knows perfectly well, and I am not a thing saying that as on his character, part because I believe the nietzschean pick dictum that a lot of morality is just cowardice whatever he He's not a coward and so on, because you obey the laws, doesn't mean your moral just might mean you're afraid. In any case, question is what what socialized this brute. Well, he was taught in the navy seals. Take care of your team. That's your fundamental purpose,

and he noted- and we had a long discussion about this this as for guys, man, the You know they ve got your back right then you know that above all yeah and if, if, if who aspire to a leadership position among those brutes. Let's say and you aren't someone They know to have your back there, not following the irregular make it you're not gonna make it and so that this is why the discussions of power that are so prevalent in modern- to bother me so much! It's like you think. Male hierarchies are predicated on power. You really think that, They are when they ve gone rotten, but they're, not rotten. That's not what their predicated on at all passing to exercise power. That's really important! You need that it has to be part of you for you to be admirable. It's like you, could

about our son of a bitch. Yes, I see that and in that way I'm somewhat intimidated by you and that's Finally, a testament to your moral virtue that you have enough force in power, be intimidated, but then, if you can encapsulate that and take that potential for power and harness it to this broader good that's unstoppable and a real functional hierarchy. That's what it is. You book strike a chord with struck a chord with me because I see them as a way, especially for a man as a guide to how to be successful as good as a way to make the most of your life to develop your life

I take responsibility and all these kind of things and one of the things I've seen with men of my age, I'm in my late thirties. I know I look younger you don't have to set but yeah in my late thirties. I see a lot of men struggling with what does it mean to be successful when used when we look at that word success? What does that mean to you and how would you inspire men, have my age and younger, and also to like the atmosphere, is too late for me, but to to actually become a success. Well, first of all, I think it's really worth thinking about what success means, and I tried to do that a lot in in both the books and it's really fun to make other people successful like that's. This is one of the Reasons. Capitalism, I would say, gets a really bad rap and an unfair rob. The people, I've known who have been successful in the capitalist enterprising,

a lot of them. Are entrepreneurs rather than managers? Let's say just it's just that's the population. I've been exposed to. And this was the same among the professorial for that matter. One of the great pleasures, the p, well, that I've seen, who I respect too was in mentoring, and so don't underestimate the radical satisfaction, that's associated with helping other people develop. One of the reasons that good professors, while an good businessman, love to be in the position in is because they can identify our young people who are promising and open up the doors of opportunity to them. It's real intrinsically motivating and so No, when you think of capitalism, for example, or success as only a competitive enterprise, It's a real mistake because there's that aspect of it it's their everywhere in every enterprise, I've ever seen so

excess. Real success means you're successful in a way that makes other people around you successful. You need both of those, and that's also really good for your conscience. Because then you working at the expense of any one else- quite the contrary, right you're, you're lifting the tide, the lifts all both maybe you're simultaneously elevating your own relative status, but it's really it's not unreasonable to put that in as a constraining requirement. It has to help other people It helps you and I would say the way, we're wired now some people are more selfish than others, but I would say. say: human beings are unbelievably social and reciprocal. That's built into us at an incredibly deep level and it can go wrong and we can get cynical and malevolent and bitter and and work at counter purposes to it, but be of service to your fellow man. Here,

Family members, your broader community, there are, there are virtually no pleasures that that compete with that. So, and so that's partly why it is useful to do a critique of mere materialism and materialistic satisfactions are pretty fleeting, they're not non existent, but there they dont have deep and lasting satisfaction of well of successful mentoring, for example the relationships that build out of that. So I thought I don't think there is any success at all without moral success. In fact, I think that success without morals success is actually a form of torture. You know if you don't let's say you don't feel you deserve anything because you're you know that you're being you're not being a good person. That's your own judgment and, let's assume that your accurate

to some people will judge themselves far too harshly. But let's just say you know you reasons tat your conscience, bothering you and you successful well, at least you don't feel the contain. injustice of that. You think. Well, I'm a son of a but I don't have anything but. let's say, you're successful, well, you know- that's all ill gotten. How can, do any and then maybe you have to rationalize constantly to live with it. Everything you could, Worked around, you is nothing but a source of torment and a constant. minder that you're criminal in your fundamental orientation that you ve read and people on your mad scrambled to the top Jesus you dont want that, like you, sir, we don't want out and no amount of relish. Material status is going to even come close to rectifying that you want your conscience to be clean, clear. You want your interpersonal relate

it ships. To be honest, you want to be reliable and dependable and if you can add, exciting and adventurous to that so much the better. But success means to be successful, means to be good and he said that successful means to be good. Isn't that a problem whereby, where in society, particularly our society, where people judge success, they judge it on the acquirement of property, material its and possessions, and therefore this is not imbalance with someone can be morally good and a fantastic person, but in a materialistic society seem to be a failure, because I haven't acquired a great deal well that that definitely is a problem on. You have doctor people, that's that's a problem in how the month it's a measurement problem. In some sense you know economic success is generally,

associated with intelligence and conscientiousness, so there is a rough correlation between ability let's say even moral ability and success. Now I'm not making too much of that, but I do know. Look. if you're gonna be a successful businessman, especially across business person across multiple dimensions. Multiple enterprises- you bloody well better, be honest because it's gonna catch up with you, man and the probability that you can be a successful crook. Multiple times is very, very low. You can do that, but you have to move constantly Right, so your reputation doesn't keep up with you, so there is some association between success and moral virtue, thank god. But it's it's! It's a rough approximation and there's plenty of exceptions. It's very hard for creative people to monitor

their productivity, for example. So you have unrewarded virtue and that's a flaw in the monetary system means we haven't been able to, and you might say, the same thing applies to such things as our inability to pay homemakers. Now, why don't we pay homemakers, while it's because what they produce isn't monetized apple for twenty years, and our economic system isn't sophisticated enough to figure out how to pay people for returns? That are that we know pushed off into the future that doesn't make it right, but we don't know how to fix it technically right image for your venture capitalist and you want to invest in something you want to tenfold return on your investment within a handful of years. You can't afford to invest over a twenty year period and so

that makes it really rough on homemakers because we're not sophisticated enough to monetize it. So it's a measurement problem, but unless you can figure out a better way of doing it, you start with what we ve got. I gotta ask you how many how many more rules are there overall, because it's starting to add up well. originally there was a list of forty two. I published that on Quora. I've heard that yes, and so in principle, there's eighteen more, but of course you know, there's an infinite number of necessary rules. I dont think all publish any more rule books. However, we I'm just letting you know, as well as someone who's trying to abide by the rules, we're doing our best, out here and were glad there's more, but it's also it's a lot. It's a lot to do you know it's a lot. Yeah, well- and you can only be same horse so many times yeah, I don't think

it's actually a saying, but now I've invented it well. I've seen grew up in some merit that a little bit of mild animal cruelty us growing up nothing real heavy, but you know probably. Glad some of it wasn't documented at the time, actually allow Sarah what's wrong, I'm pregnant Finding out you're pregnant can be confusing scary and even make you feel alone, but it doesn't have to calling one eight eight eight life aid. You can talk with a trained and caring counselor who can help you sort out your situation. It's free and completely confidential. Real alternatives operates the state's pregnancy and parenting support program, call one eight, eight eight life aid or go to one. Eight, eight, eight life aid dot com