In this, the end of our Jonestown series, we cover the last year of Jonestown, from the myriad stressors that led Jim Jones to do what he did to November 18th, 1978 itself.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
There's no place to escape to the does anybody else feel like they could draw Jonestown from memory in their head now and like I like, I could do a Google Street 3D map of Jonestown like a really sad Noah's Ark Pamphlet, yeah Water Park in Wisconsin. I'm feel like I'm shuffling around Jonestown right now. Is that bad is that depression? It would be a horrible place to be a Google map are over. The hell would have that gig. Just the dude, with the Google Segway just waving. Welcome the last podcast on the left over when I am Ben Kissel, as always staring at the face of Marcus, poorly Ben and Henry Zebrowski. I
I've been sick for fifteen days ago re sick? I was sick and I still haven't finished being sick, and now I'm reset, I pinched a nerve in my shoulder drying, my hair, it's a middle aged Pudgie's, sometimes my ankles swell- and I can't get my up my special doctor socks, above my ankle? Oh my god see we're we're get in there guys were getting to special socks. Oh I already have a couple yeah. We got a kid. Did you out here with the Jones Dowd Series ROD to part five war days, some of the audio that we're gonna play later in the episode? It's disturbing, as you can imagine so, just before ward and, of course, we'll treat it with a lot of respect and things like that not just continuing. This is the end of Jonestown. It's not like up like a fun, like
in this number. No, it's not like was it nine weddings and a funeral for weddings and a funeral nine innings in a funeral. It's not one of those. That's not like you grant is not going to come out like he's charming, it's very rough, so peoples Temple grew for twenty, years before Jim Jones arrived in Jonestown in August of nineteen, seventy seven in one year and three months, Jim Jones would tear down everything. He'd work for this last of our series is about that time in the end of it all honestly, it's it's a will trip 'cause, Marcus, and I were talking about the breath of Jonestown over the phone and part of it's like really. You sort of thinking like wow he's been such a long time a we said. So when the seas been super cult, leader speech it, which is what he should have been, and he did great you're doing great for a long time, and then it took a year for the
mass suicide happen, and in this year we're going to cover here is very brutal and it got dark very, very fast. Absolutely it is the opposite of the future so bright. I gotta, wear shades because in reality, in the future is very dark with the people at Jonestown after Jim Jones himself and Mister bugs, but he still wore shape now and import thing to know about. Jonestown is that the people there had become quite used to Jim Jones as a constant presence. Jonestown was Stick with the sound system complete with loud speakers that were connected directly to a microphone in Jim Jones is private cabin. This is, I mean podcasters dreamed. I did not know that constant time to be able to tell everybody be, like I thought, store. Movie was, fine, but also I thought the last jedi was pretty good. Also phantom thread was pretty good, also get out
is good, but it shouldn't have been nominated as a comedy for the golden globes just for hours and hours and hours Norman is a comedy. Was it was it? It was. That is news to Maine little releases they're very funny, but that was welcome to the newest segment called a news to Maine. I bet Kissel. I bet he puts a horror movie. Yes, of course he drama. They didn't know how to categorize it, because there stupid might go in a little side right here. Every time there's a good horror movie they're like no it wasn't. It couldn't be because it couldn't be good if it was a horror film. That's why So there's no good horror filter would only get out so frickin, comma. Yes, horrors drama, that sort of people whose drama it's just got monsters in it. But this so remember, though, before the five meter my five months leading up right. So these sent a bunch of people that are clear out the jungle and they say that during that time period in Jonestown and like they were very peaceful, they were connected to the
the film very like with that they work in the in commune with nature the with the. Rather they said that the the people. There was really hard work, but they were, they were feeling the rhythm of the jungle. Which is why I think it's kind of fun. They were all like Peppa temperature until that rubbing, their life is playing. Like lemurs and shit like they're, taking macadamia nuts out of their hands and then Jones shows up and it he becomes a Jim Jones Show and he is such an exacting, a micro manager to use to a pedantic term for him use crawled up their asses and then it's twenty four hours of his face in his voice from then on. It's like every single person who in an office that manager is gone on vacation for a week trying to quit smoking in the Bahamas. Everything works totally smooth in the office. Everything is finished on time and that as soon as he gets back, it's just more difficult. When he's there yeah, that's exactly how people describe Jonestown
sometimes on these loud speakers they'd play music like they play like earth, wind and fire. We look super fun or they play like Perry Como, which isn't as fun. It's relaxing it's relaxing. I guess, but mostly these people would have to put up with long diatribes from Jones himself, and this was throughout an eleven hour work day wow. When Jones didn't feel like talking or he was too busy, or he was too fuckedup on drugs, which he was a lot. He pulled one of his old tapes out and play that just to keep the constant bladder going. Could It's got to be like living with Sinbad the only people all I'll ever allowed to complain about millennials work ethic or the people of jobs, because that you're raising no, it is very, it was a lot of work. It was back breaking work. You need to listen to him all day, long, which is the colt thing. Which is the idea that you could call Mister whole consciousness. Yeah yeah! Well, Weird thing was those that, when they were starting to kind of get towards the end, every
once in awhile. They turn off the speakers and just let him talk any notice. He didn't notice like the fat kid from the movie heavyweights, who is it heavy West where he was never connected to the? He was just talking into the microphone, although I think your tummy a wet hot american summer, yeah so went out Erica summer. Yes, so that would be great yeah if he was like too fuckedup it just like turn it off. Just be like wow thank Christ, so, at the end of the day the people after listening to John speak for hours, they all go to billion to hear Jones? speak some more. Oh, my gosh, these meetings, Norah Jones, truly so the seeds of paranoia and his people. We listened on the last episode to a couple of these means to some of the punishment meetings, but that all it was, it wasn't all punishment. This isn't an example of Jones telling his people what direction America was heading because he had to keep them on their toes, like you think, bad here you are What's going on back in America, all these tapes,
not always the best quality, and there is- echo on this phone, but I still think this is important to hear if you have any mistaken feeling rings to look back to America if you have any idea that America has anything to offer offer you need to Perhaps you need to hear the housing director of arise arise. But I promise I tried at They ended come from minority, I'm just taking out want anything so find it find it off hand, hand. Had quoted test word for word. He sent me a letter letter Ann saying he said I hate to say eleven,
so that all you said about what was going to happen to minorities, taking place for eyes. It does sound like an audio sample from a butt hole, surfers song yeah little bit. It also sounds like if Lou Gehrig really went a different direction with his final speech there Yankee Stadium, he would sit on stage so have you seen the movie, the sacrament. They do really good job of setting up the the actual with the space look like it was An elevated platform, that's at a bunch of loose chairs and tables that people would say in its Aaron behind him. He had this big and it says those that forget the past- do repeat it. It's something like that, like that will remember, the past are doomed to repeat condemned, to be true so which is
listing under? I don't it was a misquote in the first place. Even if we are misquoting it was he misquoted it as well, we're doing a double misquote yet, but I'm pretty sure you cannot miss calling this quote. You can't, but he there he just pick up the newspaper. I need sir start doing bits like he is. Dave Chappelle, like he's just doing his extra hours were. He is interpreting the news for everyone every single day at the end of the day, and it sounds maybe is fun yeah. It's sort of sounds like if Lenny Bruce met Marlon Brando from what was that horrible movie that he was in where he is covered all why the island of Doctor Moreau, Marlon, Marlon, roundup, brand over the island of Doctor Moreau meet Lenny Bruce the entire time, the Wayne from the flaming.
Is playing bass also with kids. These should marks the slow descent of when Jim Jones begins to sound, like droopy dog. You will see in the later. In the day when we play that some of the more horrible tapes we will bring a smile to your face to imagine it's droopy dog we got to get through it so that you might think that people would try to verify these names with their friends and relatives back home after all, since black, over the majority in Johnstown, the friends and family. Will probably have heard some about like this going on, because you don't just tell them they're getting rounded up and put in a concentration camps in the KKK is to taking over towns in America, but uh going out with censored and all well coming in, was opened and read anything that went against. Owns his narrative either coming in or going out wasn't allowed and that's if people even had the nerve to ask, in fact, most letters were filled with out lies meant to soothe worries in the United States when family members, whose loved ones
on the Jonestown got together and compare notes, they found that many their daughters had all claimed to be engaged to duck Larry Shaft, fulfilling the age my daughter is marrying a doctor dream. Meanwhile, it's Doctor Lariche ACT who looks like riff raff from once. His funds from the rocky horror picture show he's got this like long blonde hairs that either side of his head he's fucking balled up. Please walk around that. He is there, so you guys are dating old at the jet right right now I mean I know it's fake, but on paper, it's as good as, if you're dating me, you're my girlfriend you're, making your my girlfriend here, my boyfriend, I will not physically touch you, I'm not allowed my dad, but but on paper it sounds like Donald Trump's doctor people in the USA we're by buying that line of horse or any other. So they
coalition called concerned relative from I got. It sounds like a basketball team from Southern Florida, Boca Raton concerned right, but he did a very good job. These are the ones that essentially brought down Johnstown yeah they're express purposes were the rescue their family members and hopefully take Jim Jones. In the process, these people were joined by Greystone Stone begun to turn. The heat in the custody battle over her son, John Victor AKA, John John, who, by this time was being referred to. As the child, God in Jonestown, which gave the fight for his cussed even more gravitas. All right, then Jones was faced with its highest profile, the and yet longtime lawyer TIM Stone, who had finally gotten tire Jim Jones, is schitt after gym, accused him of being a CIA double agent. That's what got him Matt was, after all, this bullshit. After all of this bullshit he got mad because Jim Gill
he's decided to paint him as a fake villain with TIM stones, knowledge within the cult we're finding out here. Is that number one. Tim stone was never really happy with the fact that Jim Jones sucked his wife and they had a kid he, it's never a sign that affidavit get over there. No, it's not bad, but that little hurdle there. It seemed to always come up, especially when you watch your fat, weird, boy being called the child God and you're just standing there just be in, like you know, I made, I wish I could. I wish yeah. I wish I'd give it a shot to make, but We got so mad that he went back to Greystone, so he would go on these trips for Jim Jones like doing various coordinating things and he started taking more and more time to do his own bullshit, and so he went to grace and said This in I know this is a problem we gotta go get John John out and they joined forces and
stone being super fucking aggressive lawyer that he was which made of such a useful tool for the peoples Temple as now make it made him at like only real true enemy that Jim Jones can't handle yeah. Okay, so in response to tens defect, Chicken Jim Jones, I mean he's going against this high powered extremely aggressive lawyer. This guy was an assistant da in San Francisco. He's not fucking around, but the best Jim Jones could do was like he, describe to gay, porn magazines and stones name and had him sent to his address Bart Simpson. What is going on? He released an affidavit saying that stone had made fun of the guy in east. Prime minister, I mean he did
big feet. Long thing they like to play glass. How do we work it? How do we roasted Grammys? Prime minister he's got big feet? Yeah Berkeley got Pompey Castle and write. It write it down right back now, that's a good roast! That's a good win, even though he's joking, but he did that and cut the roundabout sort of way. Tim Jones got him. Together all of the people and had M, write essays about how they would kill TIM Stone, and then he had to read aloud during meetings. It's kind of fun. It's better. It is yeah, it's nice to get everybody together with an activity and not the worst of all. The activities they had to do their as oppose, but we king Jones talk to his people, about TIM, stone, he'd, never say it's stone and, by extension anyone else could ever hurt TIM Jones. It was, about what stone was doing to them peoples temple. Here's an example.
I could kill him. I could really kill him literally he's, a son of to do what he did to me. Do this people to do what he did I don't give a God dam to me because it's music, he can't hurt me. I wish it would just me and him God, dam his as I did not drive him crazy, but I've got to watch every move, because it could hurt the gene Brown on Leona back there or die young or a whole host of other people. Lots of people back there at the but need to check, Dennis it needed chance on down the line Movie Davis on on on on on on. I get him tonight, I've got a bag at an annual get him all. I gotta do I love you people too much. It's not worth it is white as in worth it let it live, yeah, but the only only one little catch to that it's in a court of law. He can hurt you more so,
dad's always moving back and forth like the pendulum, wonder but it it's not an easy decision. I am pendulum pendulum is interesting. You could see him makes it up as he goes. You could see him do the thing where you go. So glad now go, get him right now, but no games. I want you he's right over the edge. Can you catch him he's just like Spiderman? That's? Why were they sunglasses 'cause? I could see his invisible spiderman and you better watch 'cause. I've got nine more invisible spiderman all over this compound, he sounds like he they carry function mansion or something. It's very weird. When you hear a lot into, I mean that was a minute long clip, and you hear a lot of Jim Jones- is tactics in that minute. Long clip he's called people personally he's doing that politician politician. Thank he's, frightened numb Done with one hand and he's bring,
closer with the other and he's also keeping them off balance he's not quite making a decision he saying like. While I could get him if I I did too, and he said like I could kill him and he But then it he's also saying look, but there's only one problem with that. What if he gets, court of law, but the thing you just said you kill him where can't get into a court of law. Well Mark is you mentioned how he couldn't take him to court if he was dead, but now I'm thinking about a great new movie ghost court, which could we could avoid afterwards. That's Agrili go ahead litigation ghost yeah that's kind of fun. It's like night court, with ghost, with ghost yeah that was not all bad days in Jonestown fielding Mcgee. This guy, who filled in You had a conversation to to our conversation with him, which is great you with what is the answer to that he's. The head of the Johnson is the guy he's that he is the principal researcher for the Jonestown Institute, which is it is an h If of research
this guy. He He has been transcribing these tapes, these Jonestown tapes for decades now he's been going through and transcribing him. He sounds like it you and I listened to the interview that you guys did and I could not have heard more nerd kissing in my life, the two of them just so interested in there so excited to talk to each other and fielding could just game off tapes. I know it's like oh yeah That's the tape for May 15th, one thousand nine hundred and seventy four needlessly it's crazy, his knowledge and he a shed a lot of light on the story freak when it's like when Tori spelling's character from saved by the Bell dated screech, isn't that nice remember that I do understand fundamental love there after I do remember that, but I mean he showed a lot a lot, especially on the last days, and he pointed me, looks like a lot of really great resources to really try to piece. The timeline of what really happened here and he actually gave me-
a little tip on a story when I asked him what about the good times? You know where they're good time, in Jonestown. It is something that especially Henry was interested in what what were good times in Jonestown and Fielding was game night like yeah and and feeling he told me. There were good time they were babies being born. Kids were playing all the time the kids were happy. There was genuine love there and there was positive laughter to you know: it's not just the cruel shit that we heard on the snake. That, apparently, is you know that was not uh, their thing right. You know there are people here who very much loved each. And as an example of fielding. Pointing me towards this story? Called Ruth's teeth that Recounted by Stephen Jones, Jim Jones is son this story, Stephen wrote about
time he helped a girl named Ruth fish. Her fake teeth out of a latrine after they'd been popped out by a violet spray of vomit. Frequent vomiting being effective life in Jonestown, this was the good times good funny story. A guy named Ronnie rigged, a harness in was lowered down into a fifteen foot deep waste pit full of socialists cat. Oh, my goodness, what is this sound more disgusting than capitalist? Do the Republican runs the Republican running around and I will say that the republican runs are thicker. A socialists cat is a little bit more water right, this guy Ronnie working with Steve and he managed to swing down and he plucks the teeth that rest on a pile of goo. Girl, you know, and they said they were laughing the whole time just like. Can you look at what the ridiculous ship were doing
like this is what we're doing down here. It's like a deleted scene from the animated movie, the rescuers with more miles of fetid jungle shift. But the point of this story is that these people would do any for each other and they would you know it's sweet in that way that these people would do absolutely anything for each other, but these were the good times like it was a hard hard life yeah, and some didn't mind it in some people loved it. Some people like took to it you're, saying like it's weird how these people from Indiana, like that with a part of the five before right do people like I'm a jungle person
I thought I was a Gary in person right, but in fact I love palm fronds. I love bugs. I love sweat all over every single crease of my body and they love it. Yeah the absolute many people did not see. I watch planet earth two last night right, yeah, it's great! It's a little Jonestown e there because of the forest. Well, the people who didn't love it Jones made it very difficult for them to leave. First of all, he all their passports, all their money and all their valuables. Some. Even leaving regardless just going out into the jungle and see what the fuck would happen because they knew there was a railroad too far away, but a few miles out if they got to the railroad they Maybe someone would pick them up. Maybe they could hitch on a train, but a lot of times these people were brought back quote unquote for the good like in fact like to teens, who tried to to the jungle they were caught. They were brought back and they
you wear leg irons per week, so I don't really understand how they don't have things like? there are certain foods. They don't have their stuff that they can't get out on the like. They can't get toilet lids right, they can get leg. I did yeah that's interesting, huh, it's very difficult to find leg. Irons. If you don't have access to an Ebay. I don't even think you can you even get him on Ebay? I love you. No no yeah yeah yeah This was also just casually mentioning in meetings like, for example, when he was talking about TIM Stone that people betrayed him should be killed so as part Jim and he should be killed. Gate simply said my experience. He should be killed in this possible. I just waving a fucking gun around, which is throw in this shit like an out there, like it's casual
yeah honestly sounds like a dude running for the Alabama Senate. Maybe the God like they should be killed, yeah and that's not something that we really mentioned. Is that Jones had a gun on him. A lot all right, big, big, three, fifty seven Magnum and he sometimes just kind of twirled around during meetings in one night. He was speaking to me. It was like one a am these people at work. Eleven hours he'd been speaking for hours upon hours, it's so or falling asleep. So he just fired the fucking gun into the air and said y'all you awake now, that'll work ready to listen to me. Now. I had a history teacher that had a big stick. It this big bamboo, stick that used to keep next to his desk and if somebody fell asleep in class he'd smashed the stick down on the desk and wake him up.
Who is your history? Teacher saboo from ecwj was Mister shabu, doctor Sabu. Ok, she got it. She got it well. Jones was casually mentioning that he would kill anyone who betrayed him and, of course, leaving was a betrayal right. You know a lot of the rank and file. They didn't give a shit who left they were saying. Like you know what If they want to leave, let him get more food for them more food for us. We love it here. These people who don't stay here. They are nothing but trouble, we're spending so much time, punishing them and trying to get them to love it here. Let him go by the way update on nothing but trouble. I it's uh,
percent and run tomatoes. It's actually gone down. I think it's because I don't know, I think it's clear driving people to watch it and they're actually giving it the score of tomato at rod in five percent that we've got back up now. I think we are actively making the run tomatoes score. Although Jackie Zebrowski from page seven, I don't believe she'll need to get that tattoo, which she has been entertaining for a long time, so very good. For most of these people they could have lost two three hundred people and they wouldn't have cared shut down to the true believers, but for Jones even one was too many as we'll see So when the legal pressure from the custody battle finally made its way down the guy Jones Step, things taking his old assassination trick to the next level, with a full, fledged fake invasion and if it wasn't so fucking horrible, it would have been
fine at this? It's again, you got a couple soul rifles. You got a bunch of people out in jungle compound anyway. They are cutting itching for some action item. I could, maybe would you be kind of fun to walk around with like like little like the black marks, camouflage on my face, jump out of things we like to jungle, cat monkey like intact, and things like that will be fun. It wasn't like that they're just kind of war game in yeah, they're they're kind of war game in, but they think it's real and I think for a lot of these people. I think Hillary hits on a good point. There is that I think for a lot of, these people, like half of this, is the sense of adventure right. You know it's adventure that bed in the jungle and that there are are from Indiana people. This is exciting. Schitt yeah, you're down in the jungle you don't what's going on? You hear these kind of half convoluted stories from Europe. Your pastor, your
Other now. You now believe they may be touched by God. He is there telling you all of these truths about America's turning into a concentration camp like warehouse beverage is what's happening and so in Guyana G Jones on the inside. They don't really know about the custody battle. They even ski like there's some kind of leaks of information here and there, but they don't really know how serious is getting because TIM in great stone, you're constantly filing these court hearings for Jim Jones to have to show up at in the states and then he's not so that the legal pressure is mounting and mounting so one day he calls one of his normal meetings and then should just goes ape. Yeah because Jones have been ordered to appear in a guy in the score. Okay, because up This point it all just been american courts, but now it had gotten all the way down to Diana so Jones called up deputy Prime Minister Ptolemy Reid, to see if straighten out, because Jones, Jim Jones and Diana Jones had become
a pain in the Asta guy and you still had political clout, though I mean he was able to because he had political clout in America. So eight translated down to Guyana but Reed was under he was in the United States on business and that's a part of it would meet him kind of crazy. Because, first of all, thank you why the United States is the researching on me because it all has to be about Jim Jones. Also, he used to have access to the minister himself, but now he's been kind of like downgrade Did you just talking to the deputy prime Minister, which is who he should have been talking to anyway? And so Jim Jones also believes that there is now an inner conspiracy in the guy in EAST court system coming to get him and also guy knees. Court would Great sister showed a ghost court. I did not like. I honestly think that would also be a very fun night court go score. Kinese court would all be would be all on yeah yeah I mean
and Jones I mean irrational person would have thought it's like. Ok, this guy is a high ranking government official he's, probably in the United States on business. That has nothing to do with me, but Jones could imagine these people to be going to America for any reason other than Jonestown. Ok, he in his mind in his paranoid mind that either- It had gone to the US to collude with United States government in or he been taken prisoner in United States back yeah. We always want the deputy Prime Minister of Guy on that's a big get yeah and it, but it didn't matter which one because the reason behind either was singular. Jonestown right and so Jones called out the troops to make things real settlers Jones brought out the false
and had his son shoot in his direction from the tree line. Guy that's got to be so fun as the sun. Is you get to go? Shooting guns, I think. Finally, they have. All these guns are not supposed to use yeah because technically their code name for them is bibles. That's what they think, that's what they call them on the ham, radio, so they've got these cool It's full of quote unquote bibles that you finally get to go play with and so he's I think yeah and go out there and start the revolution, and so he runs out into the jungle and start shooting at the shooting at the compound and then he's like bucket. Alright guys we got it, we got it worked. So either his son is a horrible shot or a great one. He's a one at Edward. Furthermore, Jones didn't tell his private guard that his son was taken the shot at him. So when his son took the shot the guard, started firing in Jim Jones Junior's direction, so he could
very easily been killed here. Well, if they were the animated bullets from who framed Roger Rabbit, that's kind of fun. That's the third time you've ever brought that up on the shelf that I like you. That is a reference that I don't understand why it is that is logged in your really love that movie, so do I Jessica rabbit so for the next six days Jonestown was under siege as far as they knew Jones said that the guy and his troops, working with the team of mercenaries, were on their way at that moment to take away John Victor, Now remember this sweetie. So this is what the what's happened here: the Red Guard. Which is their their group right. The guys that are like the security team is grabbed all the AK, forty seven, so they have hidden most of people. Most of the people in the group didn't even know that they had all of a sudden guns are guns, are everywhere. They are being marched in
Terry formations in front of an around the the pavilion and on the grounds of the entire jokes and compound how many go. One is a lot, this lady guns, that they have not as many as you'd think: okay, not victory like everyone else loaded. It's like it's already: five gone yeah, okay, twenty five to thirty gone, it's all range to Bdn, o, okay, all right now! Yes, it's it's just I'd, say: he's sick short of a stockpile give me a stock pile honestly to stockpile. Officially is one hundred. Would you call that legally maybe so? This is a test for Texas bakers. Dozen of guns, smattering is six and I would call a smattering of guns. They had like a standard pile of Gaza, pile of guns, alas, collection, okay, yeah, and so you everybody is running a military formations and they're being kept up or we don't want? Is allowed to go to sleep, this is everyone's on full alert.
And then nothing happened for two days after nothing. Ben Jones told his people that they were all to go to Cuba, because you just made shut up everybody staring at him. Everyone's been up for two full days. He finds his like. Remember, young, there's a there's a bone that one because all to Cuba and feta cheese made this shut up saying we have to go to the port Kaituma and there will be a boat waiting for us. It's going to take us to our communist homeland yeah, so he mobilizes all these old people in the middle of the night to march through the jungle, to portray two more, which is like a two three mile hike through salt jungle make it was longer than that. I think it was more like five to ten, but you
he's improvising, because, yes, we do something reasonable is the idea that they can code that they could go to Cuba. I mean somewhat reasonable and that he's telling people that Cuba is a reasonable idea. They thing, but it's not it's not okay, he was the guy. Was there look nice yeah, so he's improvising is like are at work, we're going to Cuba, everyone get there any takes in a park, I to me, and he actually starts loading them up all two of the boat, but then an old lady fell and broke her hip and the whole thing was called author light. Alright, everybody back everyone, to Jonestown, which you know sometime Jones. You know he was a master improviser, but just sometimes it just didn't work. No kid! I just I wish we could get across 'cause when I first read it in roadie John Sound again, if you are really interested in the subject this stuff, there were even kind of glossing over that's in road to Jonestown. Also it ravens a fun read and if you go the Jonestown Institute, you're, going to see a lot of
so even more what road did Jonestown kind of, even that even glossed over, but a part of what this part of this night was the true panic of it. These people were whipped up into a frenzy. This trek across the jungle was a panicked. Like half run, people were running and really really frightened. People were going to shoot at them from the jungle. They did people with guns right next to them. So a part of this would look like she just ordered this chain reaction where he was like. Ok, everybody we're going to support and every is ran out into the jungle and it became a very scary chaos. Is it fair to say the age of the average age of the people running would be the same people of the average running Neil Diamond now, but they saw him like performing in Dollywood or something that would if I went to a soup plantation with a gun and try to get all those guys going. That's the same equivalence like a fifty five to seven hundred and fifty five to seven well. Well, Jonestown was in thirds who's. One slash three!
elderly, third adults third children. Ok, so it was all kinds all kinds of people. Uh tell him that he and Jones had been telling him for days like there right out there, at the tree line, they are waiting for you out there and all of a sudden. He saying go out there and we killed at any minute, but they got You don't Jonestown. Nothing happened and Jones He gets on the ham, radio, with Marshall, with Marcelin and by the way it is Marcelin, not Marcelino. I learned that from feeling that you know it's Marcelin all right, but he's on the ham, radio, with Marcelin back in the: U S, she's back there. Still trying to take care of peoples, Temple Business and he told her what he thought was going on, and he I told her we're all prepared to die. We're going to fucking It's time, revolutionary suicide is going to happen. Firstly, Marcelin knew this was a threat to take seriously so she, along with a few other peoples, Templeman members, hustled their asses off and managed to locate the depth
Prime Minister of Guyana in the home all of America and found him, coincidentally, Indiana Man we got on the ham with Jones and assured him that nobody was coming after the assurance, Joe call everyone back to the pavilion and told him. We but I didn't know there was an option to win. Just hang in there, like oh wow, Congrats old lady idea, well, she's covered in bug, bites and ship broken hip. You, didn't tell him that what they'd won he didn't how they want it. He just said we want all the people and all they cared about was that the six day siege as they started, calling it was finally over I'm gonna do that, every time the Knicks lose I'm just going to say we want, we want. You feel so much better. That way, this way
Marshall and Marshall, and was a part of the idea. Like a party to the idea that everyone is going to kill themselves right or she kind of like playing along a little bit and because she seem to always kind of fight the Arctic, round up like every single time. There was one of these, but we're now going to find out. It's called the White nights where every time is one of these kind of the one that says like no, no, no, no, no we're not really going to go all the way. Well, uh the way of feeling Mcgee put it to me. Was that this whole was a runaway train. Anne Marshall and was in the engine room tinkering with carburetor she's. She was trying Scotty, so you're, saying she's Scotty of Jones in the dark struggle am not saying she's Scotty. Essentially what it is is that like Marcel, was trying to do what she could, but it was too big. It was too much. You know there was wait, there was way too much to do and way too much to stop, and she just she didn't have the power. Is power had been taken away from her years
for and given to Caroline Layton. It sounds like it might be. A runaway train on a one way track uh and Jones Pinwheels, oh no one which feels like we should be getting so fat no. It is not a here and all of a that's honestly, a really good soundtrack yeah. I love the way Wesley up. We begin the episode as old man and we've middle the episode as all we're just representatives of the lithium general simple rule holding the line, but the beginning of all of push it the beginning of the six night siege when Jones called his people to the pavilion. That was the first came to be known as the White nights. Alright and that's nice and I g h t white nights.
We're emergency meeting something Jones called when there was a defector or there was a problem back home or whenever he felt like he just had something important to say. Oh, I feel like it happened, a lot. It did well why nights were like the elevated one. He always had. He also important things to say Marcus, so he was always talking late at night. They always had the night sessions. Whiteknights burpee came up. I mean again we're joking around, as always, were we're bit of jokesters. But The serious quality of the White Knights is something we have to get across to where it's like this. Scary, shittin. This six day, seed should became known, was six days of pure panic that drove people to the edge pure exhaustion, like a part of happening here, is that people are so tired and so brain washed and upset that day,
they really know what they're doing they're kind of moving automatically they're getting guns, putting their hands they're getting pushed twords the jungle, they're kind of running back and forth like deadly in these weird military snare. So these White Knights, every single time happened like they would say it felt like you could feel the feeling in the all the whole compound kind of wash over the Osis like where it's like when it Ian does been like now on a serious note, that's like what Jim Jones was doing so is my favorite part of every comedian said. I always love a comedian's lesson are philosophers and they are very important and they're the ones that really their role models, and I think it's I think there important to be. We should be protected by the government I agree and why isn't the plane? Why isn't the whole play man on the Black Box in the whole, playing the Black Box yeah
Eventually these white nights. They would take on a much darker purpose than just scaring people. Now white night was not the first name. Develop through the Jim Jones Method, which was just keep saying. Yet until something sticks, the first name was omegas But that signifies an end which win against Jones is whole reincarnation, bulshit bullshit, then he tried alphas, but that have the same pizazz. That same element of danger is like omega. That sounds tough it's kind of fun. It's going to be alpha, but alpha. Four Chan next with black knight, much scarier, but he worried about the racial connotations in that okay, but he finally got it with white knight, which sounded mysterious, foreboding and again that little racial edge to it suddenly sing, the race of the people who are coming to get up
It also kind of sounds like one of those things that that party monster guy would go to and then laid in, like one thousand nine hundred and ninety four Michael Alig, yes I'm fine. Now he can graze out he's doing great yeah white knights of the Excel the purposes of terrifying members and keeping them constantly off balance the point was to Mentale, exhausted people to the point of Ult surrender. These people never knew which white knight would be there, Aspen is Jones, always made sure they knew the end could come at any moment. One meeting and who knows if this is accurate, because Jones, just spouted bull shed Jones, said that these people gone through eighty four white nights together over the a. Can you imagine that multiple times a week, these people are doing this Jones even made them write essays. Titles like what I would do with this was the last white Knight did you speak? obsessed over it and they were terrified of it
I tell you what I do. I'd probably ask Becky to dance with me because I never had a chance to dance with Becky with alright. Oh that's enough! That's enough time! You asked me what I would do if this was the last white knight, no love singing Tom and part of why they were so. Terrified of him was because the first one lasted, as we said, says that six days of constant terror, all because Jones is go. Could not imagine the guyanese government doing anything that didn't have to do with Jonestown? Can I ask a question: how many of these things do. You think came out of a genuine concern that there was a real conspiracy going on, or was it about Jim Jones essentially needing activity? I think this may be a fifty the slice here between him being truly paranoid and driving these people, and I do think at some point. He does believe the thoughts that come to his head that he thinks that he's channeling leash it for
part of me thinks that he just likes the action yeah and he likes getting everybody revved up, because it makes him in get some for how much power, yet how much of his own bullshit has he taken seriously it's hard to know. I me eight and that's why that's one of the things that it's impossible to know how She was actually taken seriously weakened gas, but fielding Mcgee said that he thought that he was taking himself pretty seriously until Purcell until he failed over there. Okay well, take him seared take himself seriously as in he was a Christian. I believe that, like that Jim Jones did believe in everything and that- and we talked about that in the first or second episode as Well- that you know Brazil was the turning point for Jim Jones, but at the point and another thing that Mcgee said, is that, like you know every time, time. You talk about Jonestown you're, faced with ten, more existential questions that will never be answered it's just such a gigantic mystery yeah. Why do you park? driveway, but you drive on a parkway, yeah yeah.
The Guyanese they weren't the only government officials in Georgetown to have to deal with Jim Jones per they come over there. You don't really get it to stick to the tap on. Do you know if you're over to combat the beds could be double what the heck was his name again MIKE Warnke Bike working. Can you hear me bird, but such is the Guyanese The russian ambassador was also besieged with calls from peoples Temple. The Russians gave the people's Temple little attention because they were fellow communists, they say a russian reporter, but the only question the reporter asked was well. On the tv's the. So this is so. What happened is that Jim Jones was looking for his limited ridiculous because also assumes cousin american compound is it's like the delayed or good?
the lease on your Jean jackets. Everyone knows the gene, the judge in the bed of Levi, I turned the value all part of what he did. Jim Jones was obviously looking for like what we talk about with every cult leader. He needs what the next chapter what's next thing we're going to do so he was looking for possible socialist asylum in whatever country that he could keep it reach so started sending letters to North Korea. He simply to China. The chinese embassy, the north korean embassy in in Guyana he said it and all of them were like cool I know. Thank you. Look at all like as soon as I got the letter, they just barely respond. He said, like a form response been like. Thank you for your interest in the Communist party. We Don't need you, but the Russians were down. When I see
The Russians did it just to make fun of us all. This ship was put into words like also for the election. I think it's just because they think it's hilarious to folk with us yeah, because he showed up and they literally like they went all the way down to Jonestown, with no like this is after the White Knight had already happened. They have no fucking intention of taking them, but the guy went into the full inspection he did the fall. He did the full thing he walked around. He looked at Jonestown but the only thing you said was jaw this town is more socialist than us. We should be taking lessons from you. Oh my gosh mironov, please my compatriots or leaving. Now because of this place,
and I've lived in Russia. Ok see you soon. I do want to update everyone on my Gamecube experience regarding freedom fighters. Two thousand and four- I have defeated it, so I did beat the Russians in my own right, I'm playing a game. I'm a gamer now on cable good deal good, but really like Russia. It was false hope. You know that Jim Jones New Russia was never going to take him. He just used it as something for people to cling to, and things look grim and bad. You know she. It is not going well when the Soviet Union is your happy place, I don't Russia is kind of fun there like they have footage of like draft strive in taxes, yeah I like and and a k, forty sevens being used to cook a fall in place. If you want to have a great you, too, bowl experience russian, but I this is dash cam videos, yes, the amount of rage that they drive with. I don't even think they have gas in those cars. It is simply hate. The state department was all
get involved, but in a very half capacity they a sitrep it is to see if people were doing, ok, but all they got or stock we're doing great everyone loves it here, type of answers, peoples Temple they actually had public rehearsals for when people came investigating, whether it be the state, department or repair with the questions being asked by Jones himself and what he called his reply. Voice. Alright, tell me who put people in boxes here and bear them in boxes have ever had everybody in boxes no I look for shorter I'd, look more shocked and then no hello! No, I say by hello: are they not? I think what the hell no leave somebody media, what what what prompted that ok. So some of these new stories, so the first place says how you gonna put somebody
You know we got ideal temperature, seventy six degrees with tradewind how you go put somebody in the ground under the litter box and keep alive. That's silly man, that's crazy. It'll make no sense You can put your body in a box under the ground like Debbie lied. You can't do that. You couldn't put nobody in a carpet spicy food ship. Anybody with the right mind to okay. It got I am thirty one of now. First of all, it's a blank slate. If you need to get out of anything the standard it's got to be watt watt. Hell, no hell don't play you just say: that's it! That's how you know. That's how you know for a fact that, I don't believe in what they just said: hell no who is stone, cold, Steve, Austin's, catch phrase when he ran out of ideas but has no fault of his own. He had a lot of good ideas, but eight The thing to remember here is think about you He just said he is coaching
come to tell reporters how insane and horrible it is the idea that someone would put somebody in a box and you would through them, and yellow them outside of this box and put it in the ground how insane there's no way you have that, but in but it already they did do that they did. They did do that. So he is. This is the kind of control he has is that he is telling you to tell everybody how insane the idea is of the thing If you already did and it's the Target of dissonance is insane like what you do care putting him in a whole other world, like that with somebody else is like you're compartmentalizing their whole reality. Now the State Department said The reasons why they never push too hard was because they didn't want to impede on the religious freedom of the settlers. Okay, but I don't think there's really a lot of truth to that. Honestly, I think the reason why they didn't push was because the government didn't want to deal with a bunch of San Francisco hippies living out in the jungle, and they just hope. Would all work itself out. It could have been
that's a logistical nightmare for them. Also, right with that look like I mean lawyers have to be brought in. You know, there's all kinds of legal ramifications here like constitutional ramification. Here. Well, you can kind of almost see the line of thought about how maybe this is, even in flu translator on why they dealt with Waco the way they did where it's like Ascension He did a hands off policy with this one in the nine hundred people died and they kind of assumed the jungle will handle everything and they were afraid of the legal ramifications. But then with Waco Waco was a total fo two. But it was the opposite side of the Fa Cup. Words like this is just them trying to figure out what to do and they don't they don't handle this share They actually got it right with the with that old Bundy Clan member, that was in Oregon in Oregon yeah. I mean they just kind of waited him out and I think the most important. I mean Jonestown was too soft and Waco was too hard. They went way far in the other direction, because-
I mean this see. I was not after Jim Jones because the CIA usually didn't waste time with failures I mean they might have paid attention, had Jones reach national status and actually started changing ship like what happened with Martin Luther King, but I seriously doubt the government gave even the tiniest fuch about some Raven Assehole shout in the boonies and South America. Ok, do you if you would have stayed in America, maybe yes, yeah yeah, I mean you move things were mounting in America. Is you at the that big article and Cisco, he came out at night in America. That's a part of what's happening here is that the pressure from America is really really increasing. Ok, there's more and more people looking into the colts, the colts had a uh becoming kind of like the topic of the day in America. People obsessed with peoples Temple yeah. And people's Temple did have government agencies after them, but they weren't anywhere near as sexy as CIA agents hiding in the jungle. It was like the social.
That's not that sexy stages is that I'm in movies, CIA agent of the CIA agents are Gerard, Butler and Gillian Anderson, but in reality CIA agents are. Are me yeah? I look like a see. I was kind of fun, I'd kind of like that yeah Joe they're just to see what it's like on the inside. They are the most boring people. You could possibly imagine or not allowed to talk to you yeah yeah, but the people that were actually after temples like the Social Security Office that we're delivering the checks to all the old people and custom. Checking their supplies and the FCC getting on their ask about using the ham radio for business, because you're only supposed to use the ham radio for fun it against the rules, cancel you.
That'll be having fun when you're, using a ham, radio, you better, be giggling and given nicknames, are truly trying to work. My love, my job, my dad's truck driver, nickname, was be crowd by the way grab it grab. It's really cute. It's really cute and these more serious problems. You know it's threatening their money and their supplies and their communications, but the deep state it was not. It was postal service work, yeah. It was the post service in the Social Security Office in like dude that works at the FCC like yeah. These are real problems, but it at the CIA and the FBI do love the idea of a post office worker just every morning, just be like last line of defense. As you put out, this little looks like Laurel from get out nicely whole tsh, but part of it is can you imagine other guys of the FCC just been like. You guys know how fucked up This is like trying to call the government like there's like fuckedup
It happened in there saying bibles, but I know for a fact are talking about guns and ham, radio supposed to be for fun: there's nothing fun about lying about guns, it's so subjective, yeah, ok, but in the mind of Jim Jones and by extension, the people who are getting the info through his filter. It was all the same. These people were coming, they were coming soon and so they better prepare. That's when the White Knights took a dark turn it's when on February, 18th, one thousand nine hundred and seventy eight Jones, Everyone together and told him that the guyanese government had been infiltrated by the CIA. The real this time and that soldiers and begun gathering at Port Kaituma Mister Jones. I don't want to interrupt her monologue, but is this this is this time singing Tom. Could you just sing that back to me,
This call NEWS Tom Hall Home home. What do you got to believe? I atop this time, though, nothing was done. No troops were deployed. Centuries were mounted know. Exodus was spoken of and after a few hours of making people wait. Jones left went to the radio room and came back to tell everyone, but the troops were advancing, they were coming and they were coming now. He might as well picked up his hand and, unlike the phone motion which is like pinky and thumb be like I called the guy knees government make sure I know what's happening. Baby boo, boo, baby, boo, baby, boo, boo, I'm serious, he died on the phone y'all yep yep hello, yep, yep yep,
We gotta, kill everybody now, there's definitely a thing happening is if they're, all over the place, the I a's everywhere, I saw a ch addresses the monkey earlier trying to get up closer to Mr Mug. I did not. This is not I'm not a part of the dance. I am being dragged into this scenario. All yeah, I'm just trying to enjoy about now the lady that monkeys enjoy about at all from the bottom up. I love Mr Mudd. Well, I mean that's kind of what happened. Jones declared that it was finally time assistance brought up vats, filled with dark, liquid and told everyone to scoop out a cup and drink deep within forty five minutes. He said they would all be dead. Does that argued were pushed to the front by guards armed with guns and crossbows, and those people were made to drink first setting a precedent. These people knew that this could very well be a test, but when it did actually happen, they knew there was
not going to be a choice after the forty five minutes were up Jones told them that it was all just a test and that everyone had passed. We won, we won and again nobody said shit fact it seemed to strengthen their resolve 'cause. They didn't blame Jim Jones, he blamed the outside world for making him do it well think but that kind of shift to where you you're being trained. Take the poison also, I think, at a certain on a certain level you be there will always be a test. I don't think hello. I don't think that they truly let it digest that it really going to happen. They thought it was a thought test. I think forever. It wasn't until will say on the final one was the tenor was so tense, mostly just because of the the of armed guards, that was forcing them to do it that the
as it was for real, but I think up until up until then they thought it was always going to be shipped like this. Where he's just teaching us a lesson now, we don't have enough time to go through every stressor that led to November 18th nineteen, Seventy eight Jones had lawsuits threats and steady drip of new stories out of San Francisco all these coming one after another after another. So in an effort to relieve stress Jones, to any Ave, including Jimmy Carter, really yeah Jones wrote Carter a five page letter, titled urgent, urgent, urgent, that told Jimmy about the problems he was having with the custody battle, making sure to let Jimmy know how and why he had sex with gray stone. If you want to get his attention, you say peanuts, not all meals, the sample, peanut farmer and I Red Deal Kona little phone, we'll miss Jones, but I have to say I am good. They stone has been dutifully sexually satisfied.
But I'm trying to put solar panels on the White House and I'm getting much push they don't like it. I don't understand. Can you help me Jim Jones? This is my make an impression which is getting worse and worse he just send in those sunglasses out of the way it was a day. Jimmy not respond, he did not need it was busy as president. He was busy president didn't respond, that's weird, but the drugs were take. All is well. Once Larry Schacht caught bones in his room Coleman is her saying he had to make sure he looked good for his upcoming visit with King Hussein of Jordan, who is coming to visit Jonestown, ok, yeah, once you wearing pants, that's my question. Defectors also continued to uh hi profilers, Debbie late in the of Jones is right hand escaped and told about the poison test which caught the attention of Congressman LEO Ryan.
Jones is sons were already on their way out the door to they, along with Marshall, and saw him for what he was more than anyone, but Jones didn't really many more. He had Carolyn Leighton Maria cats arosen anymore and a dozen others no matter, what's the ones who doubled down every time, Jim Jones Dead, crazy, Shitan, but Jones, with gaining allies as well. One of Jones's, favorite movies was executive action, it's like it's a conspiracy thriller, it's about like the JFK assassination, it's about who was in there. Also another movie called executive action, negative decision, rustling, executive decision thinking about it Jones contacted one of the screenwriters. This guy named Donald Freed and free. It came down to Diana and found he like the cut of Jonestown Zdeb big fan of your work, Sir bolted. This series wrote the bulk of the series now through Free Jones, was put in contact with a lawyer and author named Mark Lane, Lane
the conspiracy theorist, who swallowed joneses, claims that the government was working against Jones. Line and sinker or more likely lane saw something he could exploit much like and more modern conspiracy, theorist named Jones. That saw the same type of opening an seeing a meal ticket seized on it. Ok, ok, being a sadly a selfish, I would say almost former more conspiracy, theorist 'cause now the time the times of change- and it's been taken from me- is that yeah. I can't imagine anything more exciting than a fresh new conspiracy. Yeah you get We drop down into a whole thing and it's kind of fun where you we show up and look and see oh. I can manipulate this kind of like what would happen if we had really gotten into Lord real back in the day when we found him anyway, we gotta take a quick break here. I need to hop in my tactical bath purchased, not free,
and lane listen to Jones's rantings about the intelligence community coming after him for what Jones said was no reason whatsoever and took them public and it didn't matter if they believed it or not. These two guys they created a feed. Back loop, making Jim Jones is claims quote unquote real when reporters asked Lane for concrete evidence lane Where is the CIA? Not bad yeah? I got up and then like in God, it's not a that's, not an answer like there's. No there's no evidence like we're asking for specifics, you're giving us you know. Given this conjecture like do you have any specifics that 'cause because this was a time when, like you know, that the I in the c I a were villains yeah, you know, and there was coal Intel Pro and all kinds of so the
meteor villains until fucking six weeks ago, Marcus now, I'm at autumn and all of a sudden they are not villains anymore. Talk about that Abe Lincoln, stop at never forget, they're, still kind of villain. Well, the people were at the media, who is looking for any dirt on the CIA and the FBI. Looking for anything, they were saying like dude give it to us like it, give us something and layers just like draw your own conclusions on this one bud. All I got is this dress from J Edgar Hoover's closet must be's wives or something I don't know, but you want to see a fun little secret. He puts a mask on that just says, see on CIA on it. On the CIA now, you could just do that. What hell? No it! Apart of what he also imagine Mark Lane is wearing a hawaiian shirt, looking like Nedry from Jurassic Park, but it is have fun. He had a fun opportunity. Here is a conspiracy theorist and I believe he milked it sufficiently. Alright, so we're going to take a quick, five minute break.
Some sponsored content that is still full of information in which we talk about a gruesome, ritualistic murder, but will be right back with the day itself this segment is brought to you by the ritual. The hit film coming out on Netflix very very soon to a film cannot be a hit before it's released. According to rotten tomatoes, it's absolutely crushing it so and run tomatoes is a snarky website. That is, I believe, it's at seventy two percent right now, so the ritual doing very well. All movies nowadays are pre supposed to be a hit like it's supposed to be an honest what I liked about the ritual immediately is that it reminded me of my friends. Why could you want us all dead? No, I don't want us all dead, it be fun to die together and it's. The ritual will make a wonderful addition to your Valentine's day. If she likes horror, movies- or I feel like horror movies, make sure they're into the John Rhe, but if they are they're going to love this movie, this most things it's kind of it's kind of. Like the other thing we did where it's a story, that's inspired by
the media that's coming out. This was inspired by the rich, also we're going to a useless this? The ritual as a kind of like little jumping off point, to tell you story of a mysterious disappearance in the woods. Ok, this is the murder of Cowden family hell yeah. So now thirty of nineteen seventy five Richard Caudan took his wife Belinda their two small children. David and Melissa and their basset hound groupie on camping trip to the ski mountains, near copper, Oregon. I like Basset Hound, because they named themselves this yeah. That's nice. The person is the any of the Calvin's was the proprietor of the local
little store who sold Richard and his son a gallon of milk as they were on their way back to the campsite on their last day September. First, I don't know if milk is a camping, drink, always bring milk on a camping trip. I think you always do you always do. I believe that the parks always picked up pickles and milk for every camping trip were milky family. Now these people had been expected at Belinda's mother's house that night, as their camps It's only a mile away and the plan was for quick dinner on the way back home, but when they failed to show up Belinda went searching when she got to the campsite. Family was nowhere to be found and it seemed as if they just walked away. Their car keys were on the picnic table along with Belinda's purse and the gallon of milk. They bought earlier that day sat half full next to
so actually quite a bit of milk to drink yeah, that's his first like couple hours like like four or five hours. I don't mean to be focused on that. No, it is not like they. They sat in a chug milk for awhile, like it was a family game. Well, maybe we'll see you Belinda always wins. Why not with this is mysterious disappearance, so any clue could be the secret to unlocking it. So maybe the empty half gallon of milk could be the key to this all big dairy did. Is that what is now what's happening here. Is this a big d remove because to me they're always trying, are you only way they would be? That is, if it also they'd, also purchased grape juice and some others like Sun cast. Was it what's it wherever the orange stuff, or was it the sunny day, sunny days sorry delight. I imagine big deer want to kill a family to keep them from drinking sunny, delight for sure, well, strange, still was Richard's belongings. He had a wrist watch expensive,
and it lay on the ground next to his wallet, which contained twenty one dollars, not a small sum in nineteen. Seventy four money- I mean it's still, it's not a big sum, yeah it's big in the country, I mean you specifically saying twenty one dollars. I guess, if you're going to kill the family and not take the milk in the leaving the twenty one dollars like, because I mean something so they would they just laughed tell you. The came back in an old camp, was just set up like they were in the middle of schitt. Then they disappeared. Well, not really. The strangest thing was that the only miss missing items where their bathing suits. What yeah. That's all that was missing. Everything else was there, but the bathing suits were gone. Okay, so Belinda's mother call the cops who of course waited another full day to begin investigating, as there were no signs of violence. Ok, it wasn't until the Cowden's Basset Hound, droopy showed up scratching at the front of the copper general store that cops finally took the whole thing seriously.
Was it covered in all the bathing suits with the dogs feel the bathing suits. That's a good question. For eight months the police had not only know leads, but no evidence that anything had even happened. It wasn't until eight months later that people found out what happened to the accountants, although to this day nobody knows exactly what happened or why two gold sectors still apparently convinced they could still find gold in nineteen. Seventy four found yeah that's right now it doesn't open mind out of there. They found Richard Cowden's, desiccated, corpse, tide Nutri, seven miles from the campsite from whence they vanished? Well, you can come over see what I found helped them in their heels, come to oh shit that is not good can we sell this? No, no.
Dead Father little legs, so they go for very little. Money of further search of the area uncovered a cave whose entrance had been blocked with rocks when the rocks were removed. Investigators found the bodies of Melinda Caudan and the two small children. Although there was a supposed confession from a criminal out on parole at the time named Duane Lee Little, it seems highly unlikely. He was involved in just happened to be in the area that day, it's likely that what happened to the accountants wealth remain a mystery. Alright sounds like a thing that if Jesus came back and he was really pit, and yes, I did take, take it out on people that he would kill people just like he got fucking killed, listen Jesus was a serial killer when he came back and he nailed it like plugging the father to the tree like they did to him, and then he put him on the cave and you all put your rocks in front of it like they fucking did to him. He's
Jason. I want to say that is not the end of the movie. The rituals, so there's no spoilers happening here, make sure you go and check out this film, oh yeah, the ritual now streaming only on Netflix watch it on Valentine's day, grab your lover, real, close or grab yourself because you're completely alone and now back to Jonestown what a great segment, and I can't wait to see the movie the ritual market. We already did the and then we don't have to do it again soon. Number of nineteen. Seventy eight LEO Ryan finally decided it was time for him to visit Jonestown on behalf of the United States government supported by the concerned, relatives group in addition to hearing the test stories from Debbie Layton Ryan represented a district near San Francisco, so he had a vested interest and ironically, Bryant also traveled to Jones because he was known to fight against social. And justice which he saw in spades from the stories coming from Jonestown. Ok, now I'm only
Do this once because I know it gets really sad, but I think Jonah, Ryan from Veep every time you think Congressman Ryan Joan AD, which makes it fun so many v preferences reboot the best show it's an actual comedy, but yes, but I'm not going to think about that again also. I would say that this LEO Ryan moved to Jonestown and what happened to him is pretty much chronicles. The last time account Just never did anything like in terms of actively leaving or doing anything for any sort of constituents whatsoever, because it kill sometimes 'cause. I guess they're, not as popular yeah. A b as they think they are. I guess the Ryan sent a letter to Jim Jones, informing him of his intentions weeks in advance, so Jones knew he was coming along, with LEO Ryan, went to staff members, nine members of the media and thirteen concerned relatives members, including TIM in gray. This Jones telling his people what was being said about
back in the United States in advance of Ryan's visit. The endured weeks of this show. Which only served to heighten tension also rely filled with hate, they say We people here email I have to cool and every female I group, and that we cut up people bury them Easton, What are all kinds of vicious lies anything that fits the purpose, We have been burned alive. They don't I'm telling you any kind of lying, they feast on lies each one of them feasting on lies they spend everywhere. Moment every moment they're not of a job talking about us obsessed by us. We are, there devil they have to have something to keep them going because their life is so empty. I
It's like people are also thinking about the Hoosiers had I known Wisconsin to think about the pack attack quite a bit. This is just unbelievable. The self obsession here because I mean obviously he's a he is a narcissist and he's making everybody obsessed with him as well, because that's where again, we told we talk about that when you're in a culture in the cult leaders, brain you're, now a part, an extension shirt, but also there are no good truth in what he's saying, which is the he does off them, and all the men and everything else is like everything else is lies, but it was kind of. I wonder how that is for people in Johnstown. When you hear it saying like there and all the lies saying that I'll make love to every man and woman and they're like oh, you do dead
but I mean you suck Maine also. I do want to point out to the audience that Henry has lost his shirt. He has at some point during this recording now you are fully, however, more closed. It looks like an account of your hair, but I do spilled some of my coffee and I didn't want to get it on the computer, so I had to use my shirt 'cause. We were out. Ok, alright, just want to keep everyone up to date on the short status of headers broski. Well, no one back in. It's safe to say that they burn babies are killed, babies right, eat babies or anything like that. No one's saying that, but and Jones is telling these people that they're, saying that and they're saying that people like Ryan is coming in saying that, and on top of that, like stones, TIM Stone is coming. This villain that Jones is and for such a long time like all of the villains, are coming, and we know they're coming they're absolutely coming this time, there's no! If ands or buts about it, so people in dear they for weeks they hear every single night, so by
the time Ryan shows up. People are fucking terrified, they're on edge Joe is walking around with his armed guards at all times like these sh, it is reaching a boiling point by the time Ryan before Ryan even shows up, I mean if your congressman Ryan, you gotta be like. Have you been saying bad shit about me or something 'cause? I just really don't like me at all even know. Yet, if I bit off in here, it's like, I had a bad opener. Can I do it's like an opener can't be that good, but he also can't be too good right now. It's got to set the stage for the headliner, but when LEO Ryan showed up at the that's. What he'd be doing right is even tell all these lies about what was going to happen when he came, and for for a group, I was kind of getting normal correspondence from them. Yeah I like it like they were. Like a normal thing. He said that they were planning to come. He didn't realize the inner debate,
happening inside of Jonestown to like even should be, if he, if he even could come to the compound. But a part of me wonders if Jones New, the second, that marshland convinced him that We should let LEO Ryan in as if this was going to be the final, the final couple I really wonder if he knew or Ryan didn't, even go into Jonestown like he. His entire plan was, he was going to go. He was going have a nice little trip to South America. He was going to go to the gates at Jonestown, they'd, say you're not coming in, and he was going to go back to America and be a politician. He was going to open a congressional hearing and then it wouldn't be his fucking problem anymore. Also, being a politician means she's getting together in a room with a bunch of other fucking idiots and doing nothing, but if you feel like you did something, because everyone had a good long talk about it and then he also got a free trip to South America, and you know I mean you, don't think that he would just go to Guyana and dip us to it and Joe said and leave
a party and a little bit up, all your I'm not sure how the party, but there be a lot of drinking Sambuca. Actually I don't know when or with a drink in South America, but stuff like that it's like he had bought a vacation to fuckin' congressman peace I always find the time to party. Well Brian, I mean we. We can't malign the name of Lee all right. He was actually no. I I'm just saying I've just paying for congressman in general, they get just press yeah. We were. I was a good dude, but unfortunately for him at everyone involved. Jones decided after a lot of picture from his lawyers and Marshall. That Ryan should be let in because they believed that Ryan was there the key to their survival, because, like Marshall and she was a good woman, she didn't want anyone to die and the lawyers they don't want to lose their meal ticket and presumably didn't want anyone to die either. This was the simple, Jonestown contingent, because there was still reasonable people there? That's where you here again especially from people like you know, TIM Carter being like,
was not a Uh like this was, not necessarily a huge hive mind there was some sort of hide going on, but there were a lot of reasonable people around going like hey wait. A minute like we need to slow this shit down like we what's going on here with the socialist society, but All this other shit. We don't want me when, marchali was she not involved in choose not involved in the first white night, she was out of town right. I think she was in the United States. I think that was before she came yeah by the time our swing out there. It was way out of hand. Ok so, up until then the report it's a rich 'cause Morrison was a part of the original, like the burgeoning like cutting the jungle game, Jonestown in there. A part of their big argument was like we have done this beautiful, we're creating a pure socialist society where everyone takes care of each other. All of the best qualities of everyone is being used. She did.
Really understand quite how dark it's gotten so part of her big never in the inside being like let Ryan see what we've built like we have this thing. We have a what's at the city the sky. Where is it was a term like God like on the mountain top, we made the pl, we made the promise land yeah, but the she fully understand the extent of how bad thing really get it yeah. It sounds like when your college roommate is like come to the bathroom. I got something to show you it's just a turd. Ok, thank you, yeah! Well, I think martial, martial, martial and also some willfully ignored a lot of the bad that was going on. I think she thought that Lee Ryan could come in because it it happened before where people had traveled on to Jonestown, like family members who traveled down and they clean up their act when those family members there, when the outside people are there, they clean up their act for a few days. They don't do anything awful and then the
members go back to like. Actually, it looks pretty cool like everyone's have everyone's really enjoying themselves there, and they could have done the exact same thing with LEO Ryan, but There was another contingent of involved in town, the ones that preparing for Armageddon, or at least their own personal armageddon, you think they get off on the lie. Take the whole community when the person comes in. They pretend to be so nice, like the movie house of Wax and then as soon as they go then they're like, and this is like, do you think they even they like it? They get away with. I think it's it's the part of which I think when we originally started talking about Jim Jones. The first couple episodes we kind of use the idea that he is like a killer that used a group of people as a weapon against itself This is where the serial killer part of the? centralization of his personality, I think comes in because a part of it's the joy of getting one over on somebody. There is a good thing here that we are we're. Hood winking people worked we're living double lives and the three All of that is pretty intense.
He loves that one. We have all these inner sanctums. There are people on a need to know basis about what's really happening here, but I also think the also openly express it that a part of having LEO Ryan COM was. He thought they could relieve from some pressure is, if He comes and takes out the people who don't want to be there Marshall. It actually wanted that to happen. She wanted People who didn't want to be there to get a chance to leave and that LEO Ryan would be the kind of ticket for that it would be good way. It would soothe Jim Jones. It would be like a thing where he comes hopefully, give the blessing everything and takes just with small quotient of people who want to leave out and then with Do allow the rest of us to kind of live a peaceful life here with all these people complaining all the time yeah, but there were a lot of people that were not into that specifically Carolyn late. She, a memo called analysis of future prospects in which outline all the reasons why Jonestown had no chance of survival in any way whatsoever in a subsection titled
final stand. If decided on, she casually wrote about final solution. Should things go S, Congressman Ryan Outline mass suicide could most efficiently be carried out casually. Well but maybe will be head each other, maybe we'll shoot each other. Maybe we'll take pills. What do you think guilty they always taking into the act like a guillotine? First of all, it me, seven hours to put together the the clothes Troyer like the center drawers. I have for my KIA in my in my bedroom right and I'm a moron and there's a new set of instructions. If you order a gated team, it is not only going to come disassembled, but I don't think that they are going to give you instructions on how to build I think a dexateens like well, if you could figure out good luck, also you're going to need to find your own guillotine blade, which is the it's part of a KIA team. So you wanted you act like it's the simple solution, but it's like hundreds of
hours. Did you just casually wrote down Carolyn yeah? We could just build all these guillotines lickity split, well, Golly Orion, coming in a week. That's a very recent, relatively recent Alex Jones Conspiracy, as a matter of fact that the government's going to kill us with kids, which is not even known, effective way to do it, that's not recent at all within five years, or so I guess so, it's great for me. So it's so stupid. Now Dude Bill Cooper was saying that was Bill Cooper. It started with Bill Cooper. Dole pointed guillotines. Do the Massachusetts? What does this build up? The organ enerji of people like in terror of the blade and when the blade drops the spurting of blood requires a lot of magic energy, and that is what they're supposed to be using to open up the pyramid. Select the reptilians and it all makes perfect sense. This memo from Caroline Latent, like it has echo there's a correspondence you read between Nazis, about, like the concentration camps, the best way to kill everyone, it that banality to it. They talk about this shit like we talk about like planning out a fuckin' episode.
We're fairly serious. No, I think we got like a Can an egg situation here. The latent plant, of inevitability in Jones's, mind with a memo or did Jones the seed in Layton's mind, which leads Layton to write it feeding back in the Jones his own deadly desires. Do they hash tag released this memo, or did I mean? Did people know about this or no? That is a top secret. This is a this is a a top secret like a- and I don't even know who else thought it might just been between Caroline Late and Jim Jones, because they found so much documentation. And so many tapes after everyone killed themselves in either. Mayweather Jones Planet, it enlightens minor, Layton, Planet and Jones. When you look at how fast and efficiently all this happened, it was obvious that this seat had fully bloomed before it Ryan. Arrived just
before Ryan arrived, though Marcelin insisted Jones, let their sons travel to Georgetown. For a week of exhibition, basketball games, 'cause Jonestown at a basketball team. They did. What are the James Brown boys with her name? It was the South Guyana on a very malnourished and they would show up, apparently the they would go, and we would lose their very bad basketball team, but they loved it. It was up there with it, but Jim Jones would always out the scores from the games been and we walked up again. We will come in. That's all we do. We, woman, woman, woman and whip across play country. Meanwhile, it's like they are. They are traveling The ball concert, because they don't have the energy to drip and everyone else is. Let them do it because they know they're from Johnston yeah they would. They were terrible. They constantly lost in view they are having to come back after Jones, told everyone that they had one
and eventually like they lost so much. That Jones would just lie about how much they lossed bio, but he did it truth. It's so sad. Can you imagine being honestly going through all of this ship? You love basketball and then you're sitting there I mean. Obviously one of the chosen ones you're hearing it out in the in the in Jonestown as a child, so you're actually having like an okay time but have an ally like that level of lies. Gotta be depressing! It's ridiculous! Well, this brings up the question about Marshall and sending the boys out was this a calculated move on Marcellus part to remove at least a couple of her children from ground zero the place where ship was most likely to go down? Was it a calculated move for her to remove some of their children ground zero? Or was it a coincidence I don't know I actually. I wonder the more and more we learn about Marcelin, especially from Mcgee.
It seems like it may be calculated out, and I mean either. Teams like she may have sent them out, because she did this a couple times with the other kids. She always kind of like whatever opportunity she could to get the kids out. She took right. I mean either way it's a tragedy, Stephen Jones himself has said on multiple occasions that he and his mother, together with the only people who could talk Jim, bones out of his dumber ideas, leaving owns, save the lives of Stephen Jim Junior and a few dozen others, but the absence of their cool heads may have doomed everyone else, and this is no fault of their own. I mean this just a tragedy of but been there it's possible, they might have been able to stop it. Me. I don't know. Maybe delays like that, a train once that train left the station right. It seem like a buy it by the end, especially we're gonna find a with the fates of everybody involved. What we see and up happening is that whatever
would have been. It would have been delaying the inevitable yeah until either they really truly did get in trouble with the US or guyanese government or they I just did their version of the final solution: yeah it's like when they cut the brakes of John Candy's car in who framed Roger, who killed Harry Crumb Who is harry? Who is harry? Does cold brew, Syracuse area crime movies great, but once he starts going you're, not stopping. You know what, when I sat down in relation to the death tape again, the only thing I could think of was John King. Analogous guide, you brought him up like gobbling. November 17th, one thousand nine hundred and seventy eight congressman Ryan in nineteen others chartered a plane and flew to small potholed airstrip in Port Kaituma after being greeted by settlers. Only when Ryan and aid in eight members of the media were allowed to go the ninth
national Enquirer was refused admission due to an earlier beef with Jim Jones. He had a feud with the national Enquirer, that's great and when, group arrived in Jonestown. They found a near paradise. The settlers. Even harder than usual in the days leading up to the visit to make it seem like Jonestown was a loyal machine full of the happiest people on earth in the rehearsals had somewhat work to this. Here is a couple of statements from settlers on that day. As shown in the PBS documentary, which is why there's the creepy music underneath? Are you happy here never been any happier in my life you wanna study. Definitely I've certainly do some people have said they couldn't leave what they wanted to do. You think it could? Yes, if I really wanted to help, I'm filling up problems with it and you really wanted to be able to
So brainwashed at this point brainwashed, I'm not sure I don't know if it's brainwash know now. I I don't know if brain washing the isn't the right word. What's up, I mean it's a g thing I knew that they were lying in that situation. I think so I think so I think they know that they're lying, I think, a part of it in the end is what they've been indoctrinated. Actually Marcus. I think maybe, not that you're wrong, but I think that this is actually the face of what brain washing actually is. You're not actually in autumn it- and I think That'S- that's kind of the thing that everybody gets confused about by cults in General- is that they think become this kind of like brainless like robot. When omission Rico is probably the closest yes that this came to that This is the people making a willing choice. What they have now been constantly indoctrinated to believe is a means to an end that we have to do this to keep our perfect society alive. We are now when the growing pains of a perfect society. That's why it's not good right now, that's actually to
the brain washing at its most insidious or they have been there They are fully convinced that what they're doing is right and that and now they'll do anything to protect, including lying. So, apart of its they're actively lying but brainwashing. Is the layer deeper and there I mean. Maybe there were some people there. I mean they're definitely work people in Johnstown that were of that ilk that we're definitely true, believers that were like that are in the line, but I saw or heard that thought that this a means to an end, but I mean I think when you start to see like the defectors coming out. There were definitely some people that saw something wrong going on here. We wanted them wanted to get the out. I don't the it's the hold on the Jim Jones had on his people. Is, it was ten and strong? At the same time, it was very strong on some people and very very loose on others. Now that night, Jim Jones met this whole group at the pavilion,
Everyone had dinner in honor of Congressman Ryan, even a couple of concerned relatives, but they didn't, the usual rice mixed in with sex and meet that was the norm at Jonestown. Peoples Temple dipped into the bakery, as they did Only when guests came and served a nice pork dish have, I made joke about how that sounds. Like a bank run by pig many times many times, but I will say is that eventually I will own a bar call the payload going so that we can always say that I gotta go, take a dip into the piggery. Can you go man that would be so much fun and like make a cop girls dress up? How long will you get a bunch of like I'll make it like a bikini bar and you get like hot dudes to trust He knows this little piggy years, that's kind of fun right, it's good. It sounds like you're like a ukrainian
like billionaire yeah, very weird? I ever get real money. If I get a million dollars everybody's going to be fucked everybody it's about Elon Musk, talking like I'm, actually pro Elon Musk. I love the set of cards space because he came at US billionaire and when I'm a billionaire, if I'm ever billionaire, I'm wearing it Exo skeleton everywhere. They go one of those big mechwarrior things and I'm going to terrorize people on the street. Elon musk is the only reason we have a space program. You're talking about having people wear, pig costumes is serving beer, so I feel like one might be: a billion dollar idea stiff and the other one is a pig costume, fiercer Ma Modern Day, Elon Musk, I'm next Jenny, oh ok, well dinner was follow with testimonies and a special performance by the Jonestown Express' who cool they were really good or great. If you listen, if you go to the beginning of this chapter in the PBS documentary and they show some singing from it there So was it lead singer of Jonestown expresses fuqing incredibly and
visible, that Congressman Ryan got on the microphone and said a few words do you know that I'm here to find out more about I'm going to about your operation. Here I tell you right now that from a few conversations, I've had with some of the folks here already in seeing that whatever the I'm sorry there's some people here who believe this is the best thing that ever happened, and there are a lot leads that plan or something did I cut the cheering off? Okay, it goes on longer camera. Man said that I'd never never seen anything like this. Like you sat there, this relay the the the came out of out was. I I'd, never heard anything like this, and one The followers turned to him. This, like it's, because you've never seen anything like this. That was Yes, it's really intense, it's very, very intense, but also, I think That noise, you hear most a, I think every we kind of write a little bit of the writing on the wall. Thinking that this was going to be,
the end times and I think a part of what we're hearing is relief of Okay, he's cool. We don't have all kill ourselves like this is like we. We just bought time we're just here. We did it. We did the big hurdle. What we thought was going to be the big hurdle. Now we can really start living. Our socialist utopia We did it. You know like they they a huge victory right in front of him they he would leave and everything would be great and no one was going to die, but All these good times were happening. A settler, Vernon Gosney had passed a note to Don Harris of Mbc 'cause Vernon thought that Don Harris, congressman LEO Ryan. The note read burn in Ghazni and Monica Bagsby? Please help us get out of Jonestown? Oh it's chilling. Now. Yes, now burn and tried to be smooth with it, but since he was nervous as hell, he Butterfingers and drop the note he was passing it and when he picked it back up
handed the note to her as a little. Solomon said he passed it out. He passed it, ok, which is what all of the kids were trained to. Do. The kids were train, to rat on everybody which is another strike against having a child, but it's very similar to you ever seen the movie white ribbon. No, no! It's about uh. Did not see parties rising in Germany, and it's about, like the kids in this school, we're essentially like the thought process. If the Nazis had kind of like boiled down into kids and the kids became really scary scary because essentially became informants for the state, which is basically what they were going for with the Nazi youth movement. And you see here we're in this well moment where you could see how like a child, is weaponized with thought right. It's very intense her Jones did nothing that night. All almost certainly knew about the note. It's almost impossible for Jones to not have heard one of his settlers passing a note to one of the reporters and the media.
Go back to Port Kaituma to sleep, but Ryan spent the night in Jonestown without incident, If the plan all along was to just kill Ryan, he could have done it then right very, very easy, slit his throat and sleep. That would be it once again. Jones was improvising, but he was prepared the next day on November. 18Th, one thousand nine hundred and seventy eight. What Jones had been preparing his people for over the course of almost a decade finally came to fruition. Ryan awoke really. It was almost immediately met with people ready to get the hell out of Jonestown. In fact, people already started, go overnight. Eleven settlers had seen the writing on the wall and had escaped through the jungle, but so. This shows the true congressman spirit of LEO Ryan, because when he showed up even show up with any plan to get people out of their features.
Really expecting, I'm not even be able to get in there. I get to go party in God and then leave. I know it's his job and you know he was technically doing a very good job and he was he was very I'm just trying to malign him. But what we will say is that he had no backup plan and so when he showed up he all of people are now coming at him saying like hey, we want to get the fuck out of here and he's like. Oh what the fuck do. I do now. The Jones himself didn't appear until noon and as soon as walked out of his hut. He was told about the overnight escapes and the defectors Hood Approach Ryan. Jones and Marcelin took some of the defectors aside, the ones who are still there and try to convince them to. But no more persuaded. He especially try to use Marshall. Sounds like we're going to reforms were change everything? I know you're not happy here. I know you've had a hard time, but we're going to change. Believe me we're going to change yeah maybe just change the name to like Uncle grumpy Circus fun. That's how you do you start without changing yeah there were
families that were leaving like the parks family they've been with Joan since Indiana, and they told right that, they were prisoners in Jonestown and beg to be taken away. The Bogue family, who counted six, said pretty much the same thing, because I mean the bow: the head of the boat household he'd been getting ripped by Jim Jones for weeks, if not months. At that point, he was one of Jim Jones is whipping boy, so he was like we can get out of here. Let's get outta here. Parents took children, they left their spouses behind they caused just a complete and total chaos. Loyalist verbally attacked the defectors and they were calling them traders and then the news crew Corner Jones for a torturous, desperate. Forty five minute long interview, here's an excerpt last night,
someone came and passed me. This note he's the one that I'm just talking about this. This is the matter once a little sun here doesn't concern. You, though, that that this man, for whatever reason, what are the people in your group lie lie. What can I do by larger? You? People don't leave us. I just played you. Please leave us bill, we will bother nobody. Anybody wants to get out of here can get outta here. We have no problem getting out. They come in real time. I don't know what kind of game people like who people who basically some people, do I don't something like purposes, but if it's so damn add, or is he living in sun here? Will you give me a good reason for that? Well, you're also here Listen that remember hear that for the background at this point, it's falconer fever pitch right,
seeing Jim Jones he's lost kind of a lot of his powers at this point, he's is saying weird domscheit about him playing a game and do stuff, which is obviously he's been kind of been exposed. He is sitting there with these talking people, while everyone around him starting to fucking freak out because they are, kind of pull out likely arriving in the cruise trying to leave, and people like take my foot, Kincaid and and and trying to like jump. With them on the party, but LEO Ryan doesn't have any fucking room on plane here, they're the role of like having this like ongoing negotiation at the at the foothills. Jonestown trying to get out. Meanwhile, Jim Jones is doing whatever frantic Chucky can try to keep everybody in play now, as people continue to scream at each other and have these very, very public fights. The rain came a false warm, descended upon the settlement, torrential rains and howling when TIM Carter in an oft quoted line said it felt like evil blowing in the,
By the time the storm had passed. Fifteen people had decided to leave along with the eleven that had escaped overnight. The total number of defectors stood at twenty six now to put that into perspective. That was less than three percent of the Jonestown population. Now the lawyers they were fully prepared to lose three times that they were like yeah if we lose ten percent great consider that a victory. Twenty six that was beyond their wildest hopes, yeah. They did good they've technically, that was that was not bad. That was not bad, LOS and honest. It would help some shit because there all sleep and focus on for each other, probably really good to involute LOS, like thirty bodies, so that there's some more room out there yeah and the lawyers in marshland also figured like hey. This is going to take the wind out of LEO Ryan sales, because down, he did his due diligence
Twenty six people left me up. Three percent left and so Ryan's not really going to have enough people to go back for a congressional hearing, especially after gym, like let a man like Marshall and the lawyers plan it worked. It totally worn by everything was on track, but Jones didn't see it that way. He saw it as an ultimate betrayal. One person would have been too many much less twenty six to him. The twenty six. Only a beginning and he very well may have been right, we'll, never know either way he wasn't going to give them the chance to leave. Not the twenty nor the nine hundred and eight who decided to stay Jones decided. It was time for the final white Knight, the original,
and was the Jones would send Larry Latent Carolines brother, along with Ryan, as a would be defector and Larry Layton did go along, but he brought with him. His gun in the plan is as soon as the planes in the air latent was supposed to take out the gun and shoot the pilot in the head that would crash the plane into the jungle. This had nothing to do with keeping Ryan from telling a story and everything do with giving Jonestown one last push. What's with brothers in law. Do like honestly, why is it always like my brother in law? He You know, like my my sister's first husband, I had to go in Imran booze one time into this dry county that his body was in in upstate Florida, and I do that he also had a whole pile of nugget and but magazine I would think all except it's like in a big.
Hashtag? Why is it always brothers? And I think there might just be more of your sisters dating choices that one but yeah Laree late was Caroline's brother in law, yeah, ok, now this action, only Ryan. It would make Jones's oft repeated fantasy the United States was coming after them a reality, a dead Congress would ensure that yep they were coming. The problem was, there were more defectors than Jones had planned on, as we said, that meant that Jones had to call a second plane to bring them all, and now that there were two planes there was no guarantee Layton would be on the same plane as Ryan. You too, there's all of this chaos happening at Jonestown story comes now nobody's leaving history shut down. More people are freaking out Jones and his contingent is gone off to the side, they're already putting the final white knight into order LEO Ryan's, got to figure out how to get a plane to poor kids liked it back to the airfield
and so he is to arrange all this shit from offices of Jonestown. He is called and the guy in his government. Doing all this shit. It's like it's massive k, yeah then at the last minute. And decided to stay behind, just in case more people decided to defect. So once more Jones improvised now we don't know for sure which order Jim Jones gave or if Jim Jones even gave an order, but some believe that took to side a loyalist named Don Jara Sly and hold him to cut the congressman's throat then, and there That's how you know you become acclimated to the jungle as if you change your own name to huge aura and you're from Indiana. The slide walked up Ryan and Albin knife to his neck. But sly hesitate. And in that moment of hesitation, TIM Kerr and MIKE Lane. The conspiracists lawyer wrestled him away and then, when
yes in a way they accidentally cut slice hand in the process, an showered Ryan with blood, which is why, in the pictures you see of LEO Ryan after he left, while he covered in blood. Well, they said that he acted. It was kind of haunting. The way that you Jora acted is that he showed up, and he was like oh Manchurian, candidate, where you walked to LEO Ryan and just said the words mother, it's time for you to die, and then who's crying viciously crying. He went up to like slowly put the knife up to his throat and then just froze, and it's just he didn't. He wasn't prepared to kill like he, he could kill like he couldn't do it, and so the the pull them down, and it's just how insane is that like? Because I don't know if you've ever have been mugged, Kissel or Marcus been mugged. When I got mugged being like us, assaulted on the street or something up which I I don't know, people know what it was like I'd like if they we could almost feel like in shock, we're not even sure what's happening. We like look at me like
am I being mugged right now. You have to like ask a question and you could see the look only a in space like oh, I It's just like almost murdered Great, so I mean I was just thinking about is helping people out in the black community with electricity bills and stuff like that and how it got to this point. It's just insane. That's the great tragedy of it, my goodness now for that Ryan figured. It was about time for him to get the fuck out of Dodge that's what you know, what do you think ahead of time to go check please he's the first person actually use check, please in it work because they're playing sure Ryan caught up with the They have been carrying the defectors and the media back to the airstrip he hopped on, and he told him drive as fast as you can and get us out of here now, possible. That Jones was trying to take Ryan out on the spot, but it's equally as possible that he was trying to scare Ryan away, but either way
Jones was not going to let LEO Ryan leave. Guyana, alive on Jones is command. Heavily armed crew of eight, the Red Brigade hopped in a tractor trailer and took off after the congressman Jones, then all the Peoples Temple offices in Georgetown and gave the code that it was time to die. Steven and Jim Jones were in Georgetown for a basketball game. Steven was Georgetown headquarters at the time when they received this code. A lot of I've gone to see. Mister Fraser, I think, Brownfield has offered to help a translated that meant people were dead and it's time for you to die as well. So share AMOS wanted Jones is most loyal, relate the message to the Peoples Temple offices in San Francisco Steven Jones. He tried his best to save everyone in Jonestown. He even wanted to go back to Jonestown town. He knew what the code meant, but he one. There wasn't enough time. They have to charter a plane or take a boat. You know and get all the way back there, and even if there
enough time. They have any weapons there were twenty five armed guards in Jonestown that would have taken them down immediately and Steven almost saved everyone in the capital, but in a moment of distraction, when Steven wasn't looking sherron AMOS locked herself and her three kids bathroom along with a man named Chuck, Beekman and slit her kids throats before opening up her own back in, jungle, LEO Ryan and the others had reached the airstrip on unharmed. But as they were, loading into the second plane with one plane Eddie taxiing down the runway. The eight gunmen arrived down the air. A group of guyanese soldiers watched from a distance where they were guarding a broken down chinese plane, completely independent of this entire situation, they're, just sitting just fucking, with just hanging out just doing their job and all So in all these people start opening up fire at each other and
interested intervene because they didn't get him one. They don't want to get in the middle of a bunch of Americans fighting each other, which I can actually sort of understand weather, just like his above my king pay grade. I'm not, I go into that. I don't know. What's going on over there yeah I mean the guy any soldiers get involved in all of a sudden. You've got a diplomatic incident right got a you've got an even bigger problem than these people killing each other, because now your guys are involved. At this point, the guyanese government and say like hey, listen, we do game the land we didn't. What they were doing, alright, so the soldiers just watched as the gunman opened fire It was a good thing for Jones that he sent the crew, because Layton was already on the first plane without Ryan. That plane was about to take off but even though Larry Layton at this point really didn't have any reason to he took the cue from the gunman and started, shooting his pistol anyway, an he wounded Monica. Bagsby inverting Gosney, those are the one would pass the note in the first place. Latent
was disarmed by defector Dale Parks, but by the time the and drove off nine were Woon and five people, including Congressman LEO Ryan, were dead on the ground and the gunman could have easily finished everyone off, but instead they focused on Ryan The reporters, the ones who had pissed off Jones, the most they pump Ryan's body in particular full of bullets, shot him in the face to make sure and drove back to Jonestown, where the final White Knight was beginning. The settlers were called to the pavilion in almost calm tones, so calm that people assume Jones just to talk about what happened that day. They didn't know about Ryan just yet, but they would soon find out armed guards surrounded the pavilion. This had been done during previous White Knights, especially during practice, runs. But this time it felt real. The Energi was different and so I heard Jones ask: can you make it taste less bitter
So, with most of the settlers present Jim Jones turned on his microphone and began speaking. Very much I've loved you have very much. I've tried my best to give you the good Life Try again spider. All of that I've tried and of our people. With their lives. Have made our life impossible, no wait attach a cell from what happened today. Not only a in a compound situation Not only are there those who have left in committed the Rail of century some stolen jewelry for mothers and their right now to kill them because they their children
and we are sitting here waiting on a powder keg as Jones gave his speech. Larry check continue to prepare the potion, somewhere in the camp already laid. The bodies of those who had been doctor shacks test subjects possible. Volunteers who gave their lives like they used to give blood for Jones is stigmata. It soon became clear what was happening and only one person stood up and spoke out. Sixty year old, Christine Miller back in California, Dean had been a successful real estate broker. Just like anyone you'd meet on the street, she had more than a few times publicly disagreed with Jones during meetings, and it once stood to quietly demanding Jones respect are all while, He was holding his three hundred and fifty seven magnum to her head screaming at her. She one of the few people who wasn't afraid to tell Jim Jones when he was wrong, stood up on the last day and asked him why they couldn't go Russia, as he promised you think Russia is going to want. I know not gonna hit it.
Whatever you think she's going to want us with all this stigma We had. We had some value, but now we don't have any value See it like that. I mean I feel like that, as long as there's life there's hope, Welcome everybody dies someplace that hope runs down. 'cause everybody dies, I'm stealing money yet didn't die. I like to choose my own kind of death for a change, I'm tired of being tormented in Hell. That's what I'm tired, I'm tired of it there were some seniors in the back who agreed with Christine, but they were in the minority. The only responses on microphone. She got in support of the plan and in support of Jim I still have a right to my own opinion. I'm not taking it from you, I'm not taking it from you Christine. You only standing here because he was here in the first.
So I don't know what you're talking about having an individual life. Your life has been extended to the day that you're standing there because of him then, after Christine had been shouted in Jones continued justifying what was about to happen. The assassins returned and deliver the news that their mission was a success it's all over all over. But I think it's a what a legacy the Red Brigade, the only one ever made in his tenth anyway, our privacy. They they came into our home. The thousand miles away. It showed them justice the congressman's dead. With that doctor shacked had his q, he flanked by his nurses, walk out to the side of the stage with syringes filled with flavor aid and cyanide, the children were to be first
please get. Is the medication temple there's no convulsions with it? It's just simple. This! Please get it before it's too late. The Gdf will be here. I tell you, get moving get moving fifty people land out. He does they'll talk your dumb Bargiel renew their dark job. People don't talk the years. We cannot have this the first one to go with a woman in her twenties carrying a month old baby in her arms. She went willingly and took her child with her, but not all the parents were so eager armed guards, forced them to the front, one by one nurses plunge the syringes full of cyanide into the children's mouths. Parents were given the choice to go at the same time as their children. A choice, Jones unironically called humane,
And despite what Jones said, it is a terrible death. It's cyanide, you convulse, your mouth fills with a foam of vomit and saliva and blood suffocating you drink to death. It took each individual member of Peoples Temple anywhere from five to twenty minutes to die and as this was turning as babies and toddlers and children were lying on. The grass foaming from the mouth people still praised Jim Jones Thank you for everything. You know you are the only you're. The only appreciate you until the end there were people almost fighting to get to the microphone all to thank him and the banality continued. This is Maria Casares. Giving directions to the people standing there in the.
Ghost in the radio room yard, but everybody get behind the table and back this way? Ok, There's nothing to worry about there. Keep calm and try and keep your children come and older children can help let the little children in reassure them. Hey, it's just a little better casing that that they're not crying out of any pain. Then when people started seeing what was actually happening. Scope of it- the enormity that this was actually real- that whole families were dying before their eyes. Jones rush them. Pray hurry. My children hurry all. I that in the hands of the enemy hurry my children- hurry. It figures out here that I'm concerned about hurry. I don't believe my teen years to this math
Click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click there are quite a few and it's on the tape. So it's hard to put forth a specific timeline Jones had a pause button on his microphone, which you seem to turn on and off without reason, and we don't know how long it took to murder all of the children in all the number of kids killed sit two hundred and seventy to put that into perspective. That is fourteen times more than the number of kids that died in the near a building in Oklahoma City. We don't know how long it took to kill the kids, but we do know by the time the adults began. They were still in the process. These are the last recorded words of Jim Jones spoken as the
belts began, scooping cups, full of poison out of a bat with a big green, see printed on the side. Please set an example for others: we've set one thousand people, so we don't like the way the world is. Ok, take her life from us who laid it down. We got tired, we didn't commit suicide, we came in an act of revolutionary suicide protesting engine seven engine main world, it's estimated that from the first syringe to the last cup, it took about four hours to kill the vast majority of the nine nine who died the number of survivors that day at Jonestown, stood at seven.
Four hours of that. It's for four hours, the worst time in your life and so add that to the actual death by cyanide. This is just it's terrifying. It's terrifying. What what we can all lead to like all of this started as a guy just- I just wanted to help people in Indiana, I guess or a person that you know you remember when he was into airplanes. Jim Jones was really into airplanes at seven. He could have been you gotta work for Delta Lot's changed now the Carter Brothers TIM and MIKE they were sent with MIKE Procs to Georgetown, with a suitcase full of cash that was to be delivered to the russian embassy. Tim Carter found his wife and child moments after they'd taken the poison and they died in his arms and, as he died, he decided he was going to survive well, he was working on it, a plan to try to get them out because he realized what the fuck was happening when he got this detail allowing believe he was going to try
take them and when he found like, essentially like mid dying way he described his. He said his wife looked confused. Like that's the thing. It's like it fox with me. There's a the thing about a bad idea where she was like what did I do like in the middle of it yeah Odell Rhodes had simply walked up to the guards and said he didn't want to die. They parted. Let him pass and said: have a nice life Jesus Christ? As far as like how many people like we could have I've done that I mean that's a there's a lot of debate on that and so like how many people could have done that? How many people would have done that? Yes, as far as well,
Odell saw that day. He said one girl refused to go quietly. She just kept spitting the poison out again and again and again other survivors. Like Stanley Clayton said he saw people being injected. Now, bodies were found with needles bent in their arms, obviously injected by force, but over Davis who saved himself by hiding in a ditch said. He saw everyone go more or less willingly. So I did the letters that we have that were there that day, these seven people there are different perspectives. Of course, the Alex Jones Prototype Mark Lane talked way past the guards by saying he needed to stay alive, to tell
story of Jonestown that piece of shit hidden the jungle, while the people he helped get to that point were dying on the ground, thousands of miles from home. Now the documentary Paradise LAS shows Marcelin Jones being dragged to the vat. It's almost certain that it did not happen. That way. That's something that field in Magee pointed out to me as well, most likely after seeing the destruction of a life she took her drink willingly. Her body was found amongst her people, the last group to die with the leadership and their children. Thirteen of them, including John Victor Stone whose custody status had helped precipitate this entire mess. They walked around the compound with guns taking care of the animals before they went. The thirteen met their end in gyms cabin some drink from a thermas filled with a potion. Some injected themselves in some did both either making
stuck or proving one last time how much more dedicated they could be than the others. Then there was Jim Jones himself when they found him. He was sprawled out on the pavilion his eyes. Longer shielded by sunglasses were staring upward in his head was resting on a pillow. He had been killed by a single gunshot wound to the skull. The only other person to be killed by gun that day in Jonestown was anymore, the last to die most likely the one who killed Jones. According to the survivors who lay listening in the jungle, hours passed between the last and the second to last shot any seem to have been given the detail of of wrapping everything up. It seems that what she did make sure all of the the inside circle was dead. She administered probably shots and an gave a helped, give out all of the poison, and it seems like she,
kill Jim Jones and then put his head on a pillow. Are you guys? She must have done that at the very end, and then she was just doing last minute: shit, yeah and those hours. On any lying and Jones is cabin blocking the door, she either I'm wondering the grounds for hours taken with a done or should spend our time inside crafter suicide note either way she seemingly went to the grave still believing in Jim Jones, the last line of her note written in different color ink than the rest red. We died because you would Let us live God, counting the people on the airstrip and those in Georgetown. The total dead on the order of Jim Jones was nine hundred and eight teen, that's where all of this ended. Thankfully Steven Jones deserves to be hailed as a hero spent all night on the phone with San Francisco office and no one there took their lives. So in the end
Jones got only half of what he wanted. He wanted to die and he wanted to take people with, and he got that, but he didn't get the legacy. He wanted a grand revolutionary gesture that would inspire others. That would make people see him as a great man. What he got was a joke and a bad one at that he got pundits and politicians and writers smirking, as they casually shrink this tragedy down to one stupid, thoughtless fray, It's become Jim Jones's, biggest contribution to the world. Don't drink the Kool aid, its flavor rate, it's well don't drink the flavor aid either should be drinking flavored honestly because of the sugars with the absolute man. Honestly, I actually, I really love this pending Marcus, because a part of is that is that that's what he left the world with. In the end, he left
world with the shitty joke. He left the world with people like us, making commentary on him. It's like it's like the week become it's become genre of entertainment with it were sitting on the we had. No clue was going to be a genre like this his whole legacy is, is garbage. Who killed nine hundred and eighteen people, and now we have like. I have a collection of pin. With this face on it that says the Kool aid man, oh yeah, underneath it and all that shit where it's like, what a waste or gigantic waste Well, all sport is a horrible drink too yes number, all sport catcher or drink. Had I had a bit of a thing for all sport. I, like carbonated, I mean like gatorade- is the best of all, but I'll, take all sport overpowering any day of the week. Alright, everyone there. It is the five parter. I tell you what I'm really excited for the next.
So yeah, I'm excited to do. We got it something coming at the of course something that's near and dear to my heart that I think it's going to be a lot of fun. Yeah, it's going to be. But, on the other hand, men like most the time we get to these long series like I'm so like, oh god like please, let's move on to something else, but with this one like I'm, I'm fascinated like This is uh. I could have done for me. Episodes alright. Well we'll call this point: counterpoint, I'm good Jones Town Park, DR finishing up the series, great research, guys, unbelievable information do not get into this, cult, mentality! People! Do it all the time and it still happens. You gotta make sure if you feel like one of your friends is slipping away. Make sure address it and take care of it early on yeah, because I get totally separated from you there's nothing you can do. I just did my. Yoga class. This, like ash ram getting yoga, could thanks fun. I want to get more flexible. I like it, but I've definitely like. I feel I've accidentally joined a cult immediately and I,
it turns out. I guess that's like ALA thing as it pretty much. Everybody just accidentally joins a cult like three or four times, and you go. Oh I'm sorry, I had a lady sure that Jack plays Jack. Please I think Frogurt suckled Kroger is frogurt frozen. Yogurt piercing the cult of Pinkberry, how many, but how many bodies will they leave we're trying to tell us that the future of ice cream is dippin dots. I mean don't: do it people mentioned research, and you know I really want to. I had a lot of help on this one of first. I want to thank research distant Rachel Sue for tackling raven. I want fielding Mcgee at the Jonestown Institute for speaking with me, and really opening up our eyes to a lot different perspectives on? in the last days in the last year. And I also want to thank Carolina for hours, searching through the transcripts of Jonestown meetings. To find
eggs that we played on this episode. And finally, I want to thank you, the listener coming along on this very journey with us. We very much appreciate it. Thank you guys so much at. Thank you for everything. Thank you so much Catalina legally married after that. Is that, like a thing, I did so I'm legal marriage. I think after they split their one, thousands pickle together. They are legally married in the eyes of the polish I'm alright everyone. Thank you so much for your support. I thank you for all the patreons subscribers. Without you, none of this is possible can support everyone. Here, all the shows are on the lpn network. Abe Lincoln stop it. I want to thank every for being so kind. We put that in the feed for the last podcast on the left podcast, We were a little bit nervous about it. It's a different show, but it's Marcus and I talk in politics and it's really fun. We had such a great feedback from it. So, thank you Imagine thanks for supporting page seven and all the other.
Great shows here on LP, and we really appreciate it. Yeah says always honestly and now follow us on all of the various social media bullshit, twitter at Henry loves. You at Marcus Parks had been castle on Instagram. A doctor friend at Marcus parks have been canceled number one. I'm on the left. For all of the horse ship that is to speeding a stored, the dystopia, I think we're living. We are living here in scopia. We are, we are we are in it. We officially will be possibly having a military parade, because Isn't love a parade yeah? I think we entered it about six months ago, world so well. I I think the moment we got. I got into the top five podcasts of Itunes, that's when the dystopia, perhaps or maybe was on when maybe This AMA Rosa spilling the beans on a reality, show big brother who knows we'll talk about that on top at what I will say is, if If this is a dystopia, my favorite dystopian character
I wish you could be as Michael Caine from children of men or I want to be the guy. That's got all the water in, like he lives in a world of like of gates like in make slided gates, and then I wear like a big tub of water on my back and I suck at around like things in bed in the dry land for twenty seven generations like I want to be that guy, but if we don't have a lot of water, if we get all the way to post apocalyptic, I just want to be three dog breed. All the chili hail yourselves hail Satan tell me if you have the energy Is there anybody not sick right? Now? No, I know there anybody out there who doesn't have a cold. I don't have but I do have a pinched nerve. Everyone.
Transcript generated on 2019-11-15.