On the conclusion to our series, we talk about just how the murders went down, who the people behind them were, how we know the players involved, and why no one ever went down for the crimes.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
There's no place to escape the last time I tell you what man, what are generation but
rappers they used words, they got shot. His true rappers were serious and they had the right shift down or they thought about it, but they had it think of clever things to say. That is why there mumbling now to save their own asses. No, I don't like the mumble rappers or not 'cause. It's just memo, Nanalan eliminated shadow biscuit. I could listen to that all day and thousands of rappers out there who still use word. They all use words, even if it's mumbled it still a work anyway. This process Kalamarka very good, very good. All right. This is the last podcast on the left. I am Ben Kissel and, I usually say with Marcus Parks and they were like in LOS Angelus attenders Dabrowski, but today we're all together on the West Coast markets
and Henry Zebrowski, so you alert hell. Yeah man we're here now you're what you're my territory I love it damages I've been walking so much. It's like crazy, because it's like a thirty eight minute walk and, like I, ninety second uber ride, yeah, it's very confusing you're, like a giant drunk Michael Landon from that old angel. Shall we don't have one yeah. I wanna think Jim Jim and Eric for having me at their house this past Sunday for money in the bank, and it was indeed a money in the bank. I don't know if there's any money in that bag, but am on in a mana, do about being eaten, and that is good all right. We a biggie into plug and wow. I can't wait for all the information we're about to hear. This is the end at all, not a a lot of times. Big bursts of gangland violence start off with something small. In the case of the Tupac murder, it started with the necklace and
early summer, one thousand nine hundred and ninety six of blood named Trayvon Lane have been shopping at a footlocker in the Lakewood Mall, an la with a couple of fellow gang members. This does sound like the beginning of Romeo and Juliet right. How? Because that's at the beginning of Romeo and Juliet Walker. No, it was two gang guys who stole my nose. Like I don't I don't recall a flower in Romeo and Juliet ok, alright got it Avon, was wearing a large diamond cut. Medallion featuring the death row records logo, which is a piece of jewelry that should not only gave out to his nearest and dearest. Can we get that one for help? well. I mean like how do we have a diamond budget? I don't not yet! No not yet soon you want This yeah yeah cool down for it. I want to claim what does that mean? Trap oh yeah, that's a good point. Unfortunately, that day the footlocker was also being visited by group of eight crips led by
straight up psychopath named Orlando Anderson, who had been arrested for murder earlier that year. In addition to being a suspect in numerous drive bys, how did he get out? How do you get a for murder earlier. But how does that? I don't? You know I got to stay there for a while. I think you can be so I I mentioned he got out on bail. I I don't know the full story, I'm not sure about the full story either, but yeah plenty times you can be arrested for murder and then they don't, they can actually charge you with the murder all right. What happens a lot of times and specific communities like this is that you look like a guy that committed murder and then they brought you in and they harass you for many hours in the release you that does happen in case. Orlando Anderson was definitely the type of like he was suspected in many many many murders earlier in the year now, or, so also happen to be keep feeds nephew. Who, if you'll remember, is the first of all this information in Orlando, wanted that death row necklace. Now it's rumored that puffy
about a ten thousand dollar bounty for whoever could bring in one, but it's likely, Orlando just wanted it as a personal, trophy puffy has got to stop using the Crips. His murder postmates. He just says random machine over here and there's a bunch of scripts that is going to go. Do shit for him give me dog the bounty Hunter give me dog the necklace Hunter What what is that? Why is this is all over a necklace yeah? All of this all of it starts right here. That's crazy! Well, either way the eight crips stomped three bloods in Orlando came away with the death row necklace with this the whole death row, bad boy feud had reached the ground level. and it was only a matter of time before it bubbled its way back up to the surface, to see. None of these guys had record deals or big stars or anything like that at best they were wannabes. But now you had a crip attacking a blood over a death row, necklace in a street fight and on Sept
one thousand nine hundred and ninety six Tupac voluntarily inserted himself right in the middle of this particular conflict with deadly results. Like Romeo and jrj him. One wears blue in one month is it always dies in the capulet. I think that may have been like a modern retelling by itself I want to get back to that biting your thumb thing. Oh yeah yeah, that's kind of fun because These are pissed me off their thumbs at times may on that night. Orlando Anderson, Kiki D should night and Tupac all attended the MIKE Tyson Fight, the MGM Grand in LAS Vegas who's, who If it was one of his three comeback fights after he went to prison right right right, it would a band
E Vander was. He was a no name guy that I can't remember his name at all, but he was the heavyweight champion, and this was for the heavyweight title. It was Parfait Johnson, not even Oh, that million dollar bounty was definitely on key fees, mind Keith. He did not go to LAS Vegas to kill Tupac and showed he, along with his nephew. Orlando were just there to see the fight. Apparently it was an annual crip vacation that they would go on. They all would go in buses, and that was true. Apparently they would they never missed the fight in place, so they all get together and they get parental I'm not sure how to get everybody on the bus. Or how do you count? Everybody right, because there was ever likey Feedy with the clipboard being like yep yep,
if you're going on the sidewalk, what I say to you throw back I get on and get on it. Alright, that was true. They did actually leave all of their guns at home. So none of these guys were there armed, really like that. Johnny cash song, don't take your guns to town or to the MIKE Tyson fight. You see Johnny Cash song. I say Roger song. Well, we'll talk, show that's another moment in white male. So after time with his opponent in less than two minutes and about that was almost certainly affects Tupac and Suge we're making their way out to their car to attend the opening of Shugs new Night Club Club, six hundred and sixty two, which stood for. If you Look at the numerical numbers on a telephone, MLB yeah. Really, yeah run DMC was supposed to perform and should not,
planning on talking to run D Mc to sign them as the first artists on death row e, oh they're, too nice- for that, no back in the day the liberty wraps were Scorchin. Everybody guess I just I just don't see, run D Mc in the gangster rap world, but I guess so well I mean at that point. Should night was actually he was trying expand. You know it wasn't necessarily that you know not everybody on death row records was necessarily a gangsta rap hope. When you read original gangsters the book you see that there is many other flavors in the hip, hop community they're, trying to act like the it girl groups, the head of the budget for Jethro was trying to expand into trying to add more sound to it, because at the time gangster rap was that was obviously a huge trend. right is one of the trends. Okay, it really wasn't until the murders that it became as massive as it did make sense all right and at that fight, as should night into popular Levon. That's when the violence began, I got to say it's never a good time when
when the MIKE Tyson Fight isn't the most violent moment of the night yeah like that, should always be the most violent moment of any night, the MIKE Tyson fight- but I guess not in this case so Trayvon Lee who is the one who got his chain stolen and was known as a bit of a shit stirrer spa Orlando Anderson in the casino after seeing window. Anderson Trayvon went and told Tupac and should that's the thing about some of the guys that were interviewed. Is Travon Lane. Guy yeah. He never did she ate himself. All he did was talk, shit and start fights and then run away when the fighting started. Ok, he had a bunch of these guys, that's kind of what the outlaws was made out of like the outlaw group that was Tupac's like crew All rose about getting pocket and park there. Only building him up because they're all acting like true, true fuckin' rider die dull, just right and they got. they could be used to follow around a van filled with drugs and guns because to Bach never be caught with the vet with read guns or drugs. To the have to follow me everywhere, like a Blake, I imagine a John Pinette would
chinese food. That is an old stand up bed already. He was large, so they're like Gimpo, can impact just pulls out a quill starts to write because I mean just described like this- is not the guy that should be the most aggressive person in the room. Well, some of the outlaws were like really Agonum on, but others were like men. You need to be careful like some of them were actually like. Looking at what was going around saying like men, with fire here. You need to calm down a little bit. Okay, now it's impossible to know just what to parks motivations for his next act actually wore it could be that to pop was actually stand up. First and with the friend that got his necklace stolen or it could be that he was just hyped up from the fight and got caught up in the moment. Dude. Ok, who wrote the ring entrance song for MIKE I needed so you watch you just listen to yourself play before MIKE Tyson beat this year, in under a minute. Let you under two minutes. It was a crazy when it was one of his comeback fight when he was just unstoppable, come out of prison and so you're all like being
It's like I'm on my way to the perogy festival right in my fingers. Perogy Harper, ok shape you can limo that I'm going out or like outside, because I declared the mayor of Poland for one day and they're playing Bob Segers Ramblin man on there and the God knows what I'm going to be capable just want to eat that perogy car of yours well either way Tupac, put no thought whatsoever, inserting himself in the middle of a petty street rivalry over a necklace man. He ran to the casino or found Orlando as you from the south and punched him. Sending him straight to the floor so should caught up with his entourage in tow jumped in and a whole contention of death row and blood gang members kicked and punched. Orlando is, he was on the ground when they felt it had enough. They ran got into their car went to their hotel. There is very little goofy about shook it right for the footage from that Vegas nightclub and watching shook
walk run because he looks like a bear with a brain tumor that is like on it's like back seat is, like he's, got little arms. You know just kind of swinging back and forth and he's trying to hustle as much as possible. Yes, that's what I do every time I crossed the street in EL, a actually move slower or meanwhile, Orlando was licking his wounds with his uncle key when Puffy's associate zip, show members that yes, zip code, always and since Orlando was already keyed up and ready to strike back immediately, zip. Who was the one who introduced puffy to Keith? He figured this was the perfect opportunity to Cash in on that million dollar bounty 'cause member at this point, uh what the investigators keep you de? Is that keep you of what they Orlando Anderson had been a suspect for a long time. But investigators had spoken to keep d and keep it indeed said like no after they got into the fire
I hung out with Orlando and Orlando wanted to go, take revenge, but I calmed him down and then we went home and then, when T v D talk to Greg Kading, that's when he said that's all bullshit. This is what actually happened, all right and so zip opened up a secret compartment on the arm. Rest of his car pulled out. Forty caliber glock and handed it to keep the d, because remember nobody had got. The whole thing is that everybody left their artillery at home. So this was a this guy I mean. Obviously everyone's got one. It's always like every bit, every comedy movie when the lead dude walks through the metal detector NASA pull. Got out of this back. Everyone's got one, as I said Everyone knew Tupac and sugar headed to club six hundred and sixty two that night, and so Orlando and D couple a couple other guys named Terrence Brown, Andre Smith, hopped in a white Cadillac and went out searching
found. Their targets is Tupac was hanging out of the sunroof of Shooks Bmw without a care in the world now to pocket first been spotted by a full of fans started yelling, Tupac's name, which is what caught the action of the assassin. Now these were beautiful women. Yes, this was not like me. Mister Cooper doing ribbon ride. Thank you so much for making a nice job. No, it wasn't hot chicks, alright. So upon hearing the girl The assassins made a u turn and pulled up next to two Pock and shooks. Bmw key fi sitting on the passenger side
and in the Glock to Orlando, who is in the seat behind him in Orlando leaned across the other guy in the back seat and fired the gun. Thirteen times into the side of the Bmw. Gs4 bullets found their way to Tupac key fees. Car at then sped away in one of two pox. Other guards gave chase a short gunbattle ensued, but Keith he and his crew got away. They then park the car cleaned up the shell casings and walk back down to the scene to watch the aftermath. Yeah really they said they sat. They watched all the chaos a little bit and then just went back to the hotel room got drunk. It's MIKE smoke weed all night. and didn't really tell anybody what they done. Well, I don't think you can now but honestly Those women were called them out, as they said they were and they lossed them for awhile, because they were trying to follow him over to six hundred and sixty two and they lost them and because it's so casual for them of the beginning, 'cause. It's EVA this choice to kill him was casual. They were like yeah, let's go get that one million dollars right now and then they'll awesome. So there's hang out
parking lot and ordered was PAK Pak Pak, but from other women screaming on the street and they're like well he'll come now yeah, it's all over a necklace, and it just happened that fast. I think it was two weeks, maybe one week, how long do you think the decision process It was before they were like. Let's do it like it. Was it just like minutes, minutes yeah we just like. Let's go look for it was like what is it the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, where the assassin wasn't able to like the assassin didn't get there in time for the gun jammed or something like that, and so they decided to scuttle the whole the whole assassination, and then one of the assassins was getting a sandwich. An Franz Ferdinand's car had broken down in front of the sandwich shop right. Alright, well now we can go, we do. It would also chose 'cause, they're young, too 'cause they're part of it. They were young and impulsive and then something that we find out when you listen to Dan Carlin hardcore history. Talking about our or one a lot of that is you know, did the kind of idea of. Like your view, view the black hand. Is this like group of terrorists that started World WAR one, but I actually bunch kids down same in this situation yeah. So she
could only been grazed by a bullet, so he was able to hit the gas, but since one of the wheels have been hit, he lost control and crashed into the concrete radiant blown the wheels out further when the cops showed up to the scene. No, they immediately assumed should and his crew were the perpetrators, so they threw them to the ground, an handcuff them as Tupac set bleeding and the passenger side seat. They said it's a very important role, because obviously I mean again it's one of those bullshit things they showed up and they assumed everybody was a suspect. Like they didn't view anybody else's crew. They thought those are the people that had shot him right. So everybody was forced light on the ground and they said the one. What one of his for One of the outlaws said that one of the, but it was so kind of, pulling, but also weirdly settling was how com Tupac was, as he was bleeding to death because he had been shot. So he's sitting there, like literally just been like, can going to be good like he was
men down everybody else, what you're lying in his own blood yeah. I remember I should knighted said later that he was trying to get in the hospital he's liking. Sugar guy right to buck. You gonna be a you, can be okay and to Buck said man you're the one got shot in the head. Like let's get you, we need to get you some attention because he had a bullet wound on the side of his face from the that's going to be shot grazed him. So he was really lucky yeah. He was he was extremely lucky and it also goes further to disprove the theory that ship was the one who ordered the hit. Is that I tell you I see standing next, those mannequins that special. That is all I need to know about that and when the ambulance arrived, Tupac was still conscious, but he soon slipped into a coma. And six days later, one of the most influential voices of the decade was dead, largely due to a series of events that it start
Footlocker just a few weeks before you mean dead, tired hanging out in a hotel in Cuba, making his post humus album. So what is this now I'll get into it later on? This is the Tupac still alive through? This is quite a bit. I want that to be true, so I might entertain that there's very good, very good reason why there's so much pasta, mystic material, but will get into that I'm excited no tupac dying. Now, isn't the only consequence here since Orlando was a Crip and Tupac was along with the bloods Tupac's murder caused a full on Gang war, the bloods Cold WAR Council and declared open season on Crips weirdly, another symbolism to a weirdly, another connection to world war, one 'cause, it's very similar, but the idea of the balkan powder keg in the idea of all these things are purposely aligned to each other, and basically everybody is just waiting for somebody else to Fuch up and they're like well. We've created this political system, so the fact that it would
war from happening because of war does happen. It's total war yeah, something like this is like waiting for the there were waiting for the moment for to pop that's crazy, a WAR Council WAR War, never changes now, I'm at war what's what's so civil about war yeah. So, in the days and weeks after Tupac's murder, more than a dozen people were including a ten year old girl who was hit by stray bullet, the girl lived, but three people ended up in the morgue. Now this was most likely not directive of Shug Knight in definitely wasn't on the orders of puffy, but that almost makes it worse because the rhetoric had become real. The fire had gotten out of control and regular people were hurt and killed for it, and I suppose it
puffy or use pleased as punch when he heard the news pleased as punch- I don't know, that's it. That's a good term for yeah. That's exactly what puppies said. He said. I am pleased as punch. I tell you what I'm fit to skip, apparently when they called him up and told him when someone called him tell him he's like was that us was that all that was us only show. That's great wow, here's why I think it's possible that puffy was never really serious about this. He never paid the bow. now or at least never paid, Kefi D, yeah that's. Why I keep. He didn't feel too bad telling the story of Greg Kading. It is a mill felonies it anyone to shoot someone. Well, obviously, he wanted to pure hard on the phone phone, like you, hold on the news, a site, hell yeah, you know we did it good work, man that was my that's what my soldiers do and then at the end of it it's like. If you don't pay, it's like you, didn't you weren't a part of it.
they kept looking for the money and then pop you can like. I don't know where all you're never going to get the money yeah. I don't like do, do not shoot anyone for hire me. I'm I'm I can only imagine what puppies actual reaction was when he got put up the phone. What's the opposite of pleased as punch you should but Biggie. On the other hand, he was absolutely heartbroken over two pox death. I mean they said he cried when he heard he wrote songs about it. In fact, let it be funeral. They played the instructor instrumental version of a song that too bad that Biggie actually written for two pox. It's very sad because they were really close in and biggie from interviews efforts. He didn't really understand what the whole thing was about when he, it kind of went
control in the the idea of him, knowing what happened with the robbery like the idea that he would helped orchestrate the robbery or hide the robbery against to pocket when the the when they went to go visit the with the record company, where they would do the recording yeah, the quote to the studio quality suitor studios incident. Is that number one? If he knew what was going to happen? There was nothing that he could even do about it yeah. That kind of that that's a part of is it he told him not to with haitian jack. Everybody said don't with haitian Jack, because he's actually real two parking actually gangster. Yet, just like you can't do this. Well, you have the would be careful you're playing with right, but or he did know it all, and it was a completely just a coincidence, and it was in the use that information against him. So Mickey with, like I was his mentor yeah. How far out of their friendship is this because they were close, buddies right and then they had a split like two year, something like that, and I think, like Biggie, probably always assumed, like he's going to come around right all the ships going to blow over.
it's going to come around and then we'll be friends again and all this it's going to be fine, because it's almost guaranteed that big. He had nothing to do with two pox out, multiple friends of both said in the documentaries. I watch that the whole thing could have stopped if they had just somehow met up in a club and had like ten minutes alone, yeah, where they could sit and talk to each other, but they wouldn't I honestly feel like you, wouldn't let it like he was so now the ball was rolling and he was he was feeling he was feeling the power of having that like touch on violence in being able to like spread his but like be it spread his power and because, when you come from a place of powerlessness when you come from a childhood where you are displaced, and you don't know who you are and you're trying to find yourself in and your desperate for for for money to get the out of where you were in your in your mom's, a drug addict. You know what to do, and so I imagine that the big
intoxicating. You have work again. I understand that she was also got a ton of anger. That he's dealing with like Tupac has a ton of anger, because you know you gotta, remember he's twenty five years old I mean I know all of us were probably very angry people at twenty five and not dealing with the ship that we through when we were kids and we didn't go through an ounce of what Tupac went through yeah, so really, I mean it's hard to judge like kind of behavior like that, so he absolutely like. He got himself into a bad situation, but it's also kind of hard to judge like it's hard to tell him. You should've known better, of course, yeah, but it's still it's just what happened young folks now, even though, We had nothing to do with Tupac's murder in the eyes of Should night that didn't matter, puffy had taken shook's biggest artists, Sona should was going to take his gosh, but shook had a problem, since he particip
in the very public and very well documented beating. I know I understand that happened in the middle of the MGM Grand Casino. No, no, there's no cameras in privacy that I, the judge, found me guilty of bear walking yeah because yeah it was a. It was dead that captured by eight different angles. Yeah sure it's pro got revoke. and because of that he gets in to nine years in prison, no kidding. I always imagined, like Juggernaut when they had him like in the chains in his arms- and he changed his next with the big poles like it actually is like being lead in Evans like inmate, four hundred and seventy nine thousand four hundred and seventy nine and a big fuckin' Volos, are all the doors open up so shook was in prison. How did he make the murder of Biggie smalls happen? That's the question we remember catering job wasn't to solve. Tupac's murder, his first
go to solve the murder of biggie and although no one was arrested in either case, Katie managed to put biggie to bed as well. Okay, no kidding hadn't, given what he knew about the Tupac murder over the LAS Vegas Police just yet, because, given over the information met, losing keep you d as a source and Katie knew the LAS Vegas Police Department's reputation for not giving a about. This can and also came in handy a lot of experience in building these gigantic multi faceted investigations, because it we what we learn about him like the book, goes deep into the whole him investigating the supermarket guide like I could basically supermarket tycoon that was running coke at the back of the supermarkets, all throughout LOS Angeles, and he learned how
how do you properly filter and sort out the information that it takes from a multi legged investigation, and he knows that he knows that he can't give up something precious as a source like Heavy D. Well now that Katring knew that puffy was at least partly responsible for two pot, and it was a pretty safe bet to say that should was behind Biggie. All katring needed was for someone to talk, and he found that someone into Swan Swan was a longtime associate of Should Knight, who is, as many accomplices in the various white color schemes should was operating around the LOS Angeles area. Okay should not wasn't just make records. He also had like half a dozen a dozen scams running at all times, like a super busy guy yeah, okay, yeah yeah should not was a full like he was a a criminal mastermind. We had all these are people like running different, like fraud like car insurance schemes and like
schemes all kinds of shed: oh alright and swan. Besides, just being a part of all this white collar crime, Sheehan shook actually had a daughter together, but in the years After two pox murder, despite the millions upon millions of two parts and Doctor Drake and Snoop Dogg Record sold, yeah death row crumble to the ground will eventually forcing should not to declare bankruptcy. Why couldn't show just make all of his money with death row? I don't understand why he had like. It sounds like he's like stressing himself out, but it's not fun. It's hurtful So I'd like to do that for no not remember record, he had other dreams because, like I said, the car insurance, scam, game, yeah death row records among people focus on the rap, but it's like that. We do this show together, but you also have a secret desire to also go to
town a little later, you want to eat ribs sticking meals, talk about in a television show it's out of bounds. Yes, yes, and I do I want to follow my dreams. I want to get back in to dance by of the tiny feet of a dancer in. Are you in the audience? When were you into one night, when I wasn't good at baseball? ok, so he was spreading himself pretty thin here, yeah I mean come on Ben, like why would you make millions producing records and creating art when you can make twenty thousand dollars on a car insurance scheme? I don't it's just crazy money management she's, proud yeah. We can be like super cool or like if we thought about doing a payday spent or payday loan scam, yeah, that's what they were doing shit like that because he wanted he wanted to do it because it made him.
a lot of these guys you this is because it makes him feel cool. All right guys have with us what we're going to the beach we get a bunch of rocks. Now, I'm listening, how much you're free rocks free right, yeah, how much you're, just even just several packets of a googly eyes- free, no it maybe maybe twenty dollars now you fucking asshole. I don't know this is where you're going to get we steal from the back of a fucking Michaels. loom to the Roxbury. Free rocks, dollar piece right still amount, and we call him something like it like. A friend rock You know like a my. This is my rock life. You mean you still rock one is still rock one yeah honestly that could probably sell that's pure profit. I mean it's already been done because they were stealing everything yeah and then it's rock. When should declared bankruptcy, he neglected doing food. Some death row master tapes in its assets that he neglect
Did you I'm purpose? Yeah the purposely neglectful, yeah, yeah, yeah and Theresa Swan was the one who would help to keep these death row master tapes hidden like they had a storage locker in Minnesota, or something like that really yeah in. In addition to that, She was also under investigation for fraud in one of those goofy white collar crime cases that should not have had put her on okay. Can you imagine being outside of that Greyhound bus station in Minnesota and just watch in this stretch: hummer coming in the electric chair spring practice, putting spray painted on the side of it like rolled up to hit me like someone deals in the secret bank. Again, I wonder what they're doing I hello mister Sugar Bear Abou say again, thank you, calm down yet Tawas, Michigan, lovely Abby around it's a very, very nice bus station, and it was with these two investigations: the bankruptcy investigation and fraud investigation that Katie
brought in the La County, Sheriff's department, on one side and IRS on the other and use those two guys to apply pressure on Theresa's one that'll. Do it yeah good Lord? The choice he gave was simple, help us or go to jail and lose your kids forever. So after the second needing to fully admitted that she knew who killed Biggie smalls, because she was the one who had hired and paid assassin on shows directive, cheese. Well, this guy this assassin, his name was Wardell Poochie Foos and he was an enforcer suspected of multiple murders on Shug Knight's payroll, In fact, it was said that Pucci murdered an aspiring rapper named William Rat Rat cliff just for annoying should night. Why do I think that sounds like a fat guy with
William Rat Rat clip. It sounds like this. I've been working for the God Dam garbage company for three thousand and forty years now and I'll tell you one thing: I've stolen every got damn thing: I've ever wanted. Rap believed key deserve to be on death row records and it started following sugar around town. Even once ordering should in a bathroom to make a very aggressive pit. Should I know you piston man, I know you picked it, but listen, listen! Ok, it's songs! like a softball game, Raima wrapped up in this is Chuck Chuck. I know you're trying to ship right. Why you shouldn't your ownership? I mean you could do whatever you want, but this is she's about she. I would listen to rat rack live rap about she's every day of my life. Well, should not! I did not.
He said he would have been confronted well going to the bathroom now interested and finally, he just should just got tired of it and called a Pucci and said: take care of rat no kidding in the next day. Rat was gunned down and killed in the middle of Central Avenue in Compton. That's power should head. Yes, absolutely I mean money, you can do a lot of things with money. At least it would have been fun if you was just found glue, paper on the four hundred and five and you know what, since we're in Lai, get that Jesse funny Joke or appear at we love you. You could have done great things now. It was said that Pucci would show up. Have a quiet conversation with should get his marching. Orders and leave pretty soon after that someone would show up dead. So if there was anyone, sugar was going to turn to for this job. It was poochie and by the way all of this was corroborate
and checked by Greg Kading. We just don't have time to go into like the methods, because his theories and, unlike you know, Poul his theories, aren't complicated, but his methods are very complicated, the name of the book again. Murder, rap murder, read murder rap, because it is a very good summation of how a cop goes through layer by layer of an investigation like this yeah it's fascinating stuff, but you know we just don't have time we're, not a police procedural show. So if you're like super in a police, procedural stuff, like it's fascinating all right so six months after two Pox murder, Biggie, smalls and puff daddy, were in LOS Angeles on business, most of the time spent, recording and filming the video for the recently released mega hit hit. The tie is always the most fateful events that week was the soul train that was very stressful for Biggie, because when he came into town 'cause partially like they knew they wanted to shoot in LI, because there was a period of time where they're like we're going to try and fix the bad blood. That's happening here right. So apart of,
Me we're going to shoot a video MLA and pay all requisite gangs, in only should that that we have to pay in order to get like like. Would you do with the Teamsters right? Basically pave them to not shut your streets down? Yes, and so you go and you dealership, but he was really, person hanging around his hotel. All the time not wanting to go out also, he was broke, his Phuc If you spent all his money, that's the one thing about having these sizes of entourages and she said mother forget hate yeah right. They all health and all of the should cost money, the cars and the hotels and the and the production in them, and he was also house poor as well. He had bought this huge house. his mom out in teaneck- and he was also under investigation by the FBI. Or other all kinds of other bull shed. So he was stressed. You think it's safe to say that he's very stressed and there it actually been. A couple of there have been a couple of attempts. by the rap community in between the two park, murder and the Biggie murder Put it all to bed, but I mean, but
also was like you know, puffy and snow grown an episode of the Steve Harvey show together, and that was about it. He tried man? If Steven Barbie campers together, how was he killed and they tried? I mean it was fun. It was a fun. I watched it. It was a fun episode and he just made them give goofy answers and then he'd give that Steve Harvey look down the pipe of the camera that all I know is soon. As I get money, I'm going to buy Steve Harvey suits, he looks good. You can actually get them. I can show you where to buy them hello. All right, we'll night knew that
he was gonna be in la that week, because Biggie had been slated to present an award to Toni Braxton on that night. On March, eighth at the soul, train award all right and should knew that Biggie wouldn't be able to pass up the scheduled vibe magazine after party at the Petersen autumn. You see him thing was Biggie almost didn't make it out to the night at all. He was actually supposed to be in London because puffy had booked him for a promotional tour in english in anticipation of his upcoming album life after death. 'cause, that's the thing life after death came out what a week after who's killed, yeah man, it sucked that it worked because they don't want it. I think it went they wind up, but I think both that an ready to die went down, but definitely life after death went went diamond because by the time he was hypnotised like that's what all another thing Hypnotize came out which hit Matiz was one of the biggest hits of the 90s. We all know what I'd like for you all know it by heart, but I think that came out like a week before he was killed when you called life after
yeah there's more than the working title or because it was an image to Tupac all eyes. Yeah I've been banging fuckit life after death, since started doing these episodes. I fucking love that all right, but Biggie had canceled the London trip in part, because Biggie said food in England was horrible is not wrong. I don't know, I actually know. What exactly is it too critical London is was good. It was Glasgow, food is difficult with Glasgow. Is a very fun fucking place yeah. You would also know that into the boarding originally watch the episode of a parts unknown in Glasgow. It was his favorite city get out of here. Yeah it's a great place, but really that's awesome. Yeah, it's a cool place, but the food was a. It was just. It was just at that place that has the Mcdonalds arches, but all it sells is a pureed sausage in a pastry yeah. I guess the same good good parts, no.
This guy was wonderful. It was great to meet everyone. Well, even though Biggie went to the soul train awards, he was and on skipping the vibe after party in the end. Now the promise of networking brought him out. Well, he wanted to be an actor yeah. He wanted to follow into box. That's because me this whole time like to but Biggie is following two pox that's to park is a mentor, and he also really looked up to Tupac as a guy who had made it man. Now the party the vibe after party was held at the Peterson, Auto Museum on Wilshire and Fairfax in LOS Angelus and was by
most accounts pretty good time. It sounds like a really fun time, get hammered and pretend to drive like nice, cars and stuff, like that movie, bbb BBB, D'Souza Broski. Will you please this is my party I'm Mayor Polling day. This is probably pretty fun about that parties, like the breakdown in the original gangster angel gangsters, when it talks with the woman that runs a museum and say: ok, we have it all planned out for one thousand people, we have little outdoor area in case people want to smoke and then two thousand two thousand people yet immediately, and so it was jam packed and there were in also not just jam packed inside, but also jam packed outside, like there were a couple thousand people outside trying to get in So is chaotic. No one got hurt or anything like that, but but it was absolutely chaotic, total mayhem because eventually, like
the overcrowding got too bad, they get the fire Marshall came in so like alright, everybody's gotta get out of here like this is too much, but you know it's serious 'cause. I have my fireman's head on and I will not be roasted. I will not be roasted by the likes of you. Pull up your pants there. I'm sorry! I said it all right: everyone, the details of the Biggie Smalls murder, from the perspective of the assassins, are pretty much unknown because Greg Kading was never able to talk to Pucci the way he was able to talk to Keith PD. All we know is the set up during a visit to the prison where he was being held, should have ordered Teresa Swan to hire Pucci for the murder of Biggie smalls on that night. Specifically, so he did all this stuff behind bars all behind bars, so in biggie and puffy left, the vibe party to head back to their hotel Pucci was waiting now, even though both murders happened right after
huge events with tons of people around right. The biggie scene was a little more chaotic and, as we know, with chaos comes conspiracy. There are so many different storylines because that's a part of with begin to pop, with a part of really wrapping your brain around, which we work kind of rolling out with this the structure of these episodes, as that there were so many it'll circumstances. Yeah, They played out on this night that made many wild theories happen. Hey Greg, Kading had to go and chase down one by one can figure out if it was real or not, and you know there's that I think Who is Chris Rock joke or something like that where they say like? Oh, you know they got shot. There were so many people and nobody saw anything see that's the thing is that that's actually a hindrance, the is that everybody saw something an eyewitness reports is about. You know, according to police officers, I witness reports are worse than useless like they can maybe put you on the track, but you also have two thousand different accounts that all con.
with each other. Hey man, I know shopping yeah, no shopping here is twelve feet tall a hey! It's me, licorice so licorice monster, yeah man, I scare you should never saw something like that. My life wrote a scary book about it called the liquorice man yeah, you should buy Amazon dot com, look up mountain, my name Henry Zebrowski. It's me I would buy that book now. A lot. The biggest conspiracy theories tend to center around two incidents that night and both serve as prime example. To how easy it is to force conspiracy into a situation. When you have a conclusion, you want to jump to ok see for years. One of the big claims about the big E Murder was that there was no way that it could have been perpetrated by a bunch of simple street toughs. The story went that the whole thing was too well planned and too well executed for anyone other than professionals, pull off so fucking condescending, so condescending
Thank you. You know you have to be a train police officer, an order really put forth like the top execution that you see in this sort of case, like regular people, could never do this well. Why was it so good? What what what what happened? Do you trained assassin formalize my little job to kill people by Trey, ok, yeah and that's that said, is that you know having professionals that meant a coordinated effort that comes complete with distractions, decoys and subterfuge, and the first of these was the behavior of a nineteen. Ninety five Toyota Land Cruiser is Biggie in his caravan or pulling away from the Peterson Museum. A Toyota land Cruiser made a u turn and try to cram it the caravan which would have cut Biggie security personnel off biggies tail, making him vulnerable, but that cruiser was not filled with elite agents. In fact,
The passengers were just a couple of hangers on named Scott Shepherd, an earnest Anderson yeah. It literally was the two things that happened. Every single time you are in Lalic, which is a guy that wants to make a movie of your life. That is, terrible idea and another guy that just wants you to come and perform it as birthday party for free one, I gag yeah. It said there was one guy that he said that he had a big plan to turn biggies birthday into a big celebration. We're going to make a lot of money doing this, there was a screenwriter writer. Just like hey man, we sit down together. We're going to write. A screenplay is going to be the biggest thing your life you're, going to love. This listen baby, listen baby! I love love. What you got love your story about love, your struggle, love your music, but here's my thing: what? If you There's a big dinosaur market going on. We get attached, really drastic park release. It came out in nineteen. Ninety four, that's a big is a dinosaur man I wish was still alive. We could see that these guys have been following
biggie since the soul train awards and there are only trying shoe horn themselves in a piggies caravan, so they lose them on the way to the next party, because that is because the next party that big- In the end, poppy were supposed to go to. It was like an after after party at a record producer cell, so these guys were just trying to make sure they got in there because they were taking no for an answer at night and that's what you had to do in the nineties other what you had to go home. Wait for someone to call your lan line, told where to go. Maybe you had a beeper yeah, in which case you still need a land line. Interesting also, they were I'm going to go to that party yeah. They would actually biggie and it already decided he was too tired. 'cause this point he was three hundred and sixty and that he had a Carly phase here yeah he was three and sixty pounds. He just got into a bad car accident, so he was walking with a cane all the time, but I get big. He was not doing well at this point at all and these guys like they were
pretty much like they were trying to shoehorn their way into the caravan. And then, when the shots came, they got sick. And drove off as fast as they could looking suspicious as hell and they send. we drove off and since no one knew who they were, they created a miss sure only got solved in these two fest up and admitted to the embarrassing details online. I've decided to write a movie called the runaway men. Listen me, listen, listen! I will guys 'cause. What do they say? I run away and I live to play another day. This is the other day right, so the other distraction that night put forth by conspiracy theorists Was a black bronco, seen on Orange Grove earlier that night witnesses said they all someone fired a single shot into the air from the Bronco right before Biggie's murder, which would have been a possible decoy. Okay, but the explain
for that one is even dumber than the last turns out. The driver of the car was just one of the thousands of gate who are trying to force their way into the by party. This guy parked open the door to his bronco when he did that his pill fell out under the ground. That's not how the shot happen. It's even dumber than that Hondo, instead of just put it back into his car and thinking. Well, I ball check that out later the dude picked up the gun just fired into the air to make sure it still worked. What does this thing? Do? We need gun training and we're going to have guns honestly, I'm such a proponent of that, although I do love a good celebration that does have a lot of involved shooting to the sky. Like you said, the celebration is the gun still works like when we saw Saddam Hussein shooting the gun up in the air when he was happy and you feel happy people there, because the ball is going to come down there right well, we need a net, I'm gonna make it for
I don't know, I haven't, thought it through: ok, We know about this whole situation because, same dude still armed still carrying the pistol drove up to the cops after Biggie's murder and ask hey got shot. Let's go down here. You know my gun still works, click, click, click, click click I should have loaded it. Big gulps huh see the cops like they searched him. They'd searches, Are they found the gun? and he admitted to it on the spot. 'cause they looked the gun they saw. The boat was missing there like was that you and he was like yeah. Why would approach, the cops after illegally shooting a gun, curious, dumb enough to shoot his gun gun. Despite this, he would still work- and this right here this was a matter of record from the beginning. Ok, because for years this was angel Greg Kading like uncovered it. For years this, as a mystery
like it was one of those big parts of like conspiracy, theory, but Greg Kading. Just looked into the reports for that night and found it and found this report was like. Oh shit, that's the gunshot! That's it! That's all! It was wow the conspiracy theory Wormhole for Biggie and Tupac. His massive yeah. I get more, you go on to you too, but I tell you what man is it? They are serious, yeah, yeah yeah the real. What is what well we'll do the conspiracy? Maybe look at yeah, I think, yeah Henry's got some that he wants to. I couple good factoid. I mean the sad out of all this is that it wasn't some huge conspiracy, orchestrated by the LAPD or the FBI or any other governmental agency. In the end, it was a guy named Pucci.
and here's how it all went down all right. So, following the break up of the vibe Party, biggie and puffy decided they were gonna, go skip the after party and head back to the hotel to get a good night's sleep for some recording the next morning. Okay, a puffy was in the lead car with Biggie behind him in a suburban and a couple, more cars behind Becky Caravan came to a stop at an intersection and as they waited for the light to turn a green impala pulled up next to Biggie, suburban according to a witness. The driver extended the gun out of his window using his right hand and fired six shots in for hit biggie. In minutes later, he was dead and according to both to nice one and other sources at again read murder after all that that driver was poochie. So why were there no arrests when it came to Pucci Foose in the Biggie case, or Orlando Anderson in the Tupac case? Good
you've asked yourself Marcus. Why are there no arrests when it comes to putting his Orlando Anderson in the duplicate sided Kissels bit, there's a very good reason for that, both of them Gucci and Orlando were years before Greg Kading s task force was even forget it. Everybody was dead, most of the key witnesses and all the most of most of the key good players and the whole thing died before the case got re open, yeah, yep, Pucci got it ten times in the back in Compton in two thousand three. She in Orlando he was gunned down over a drug debt less than two years after the murder of two a two part was the death of put she tied to like to be. You know, you're totally different. None of the none of these deaths were tied to anything having to do it like it was just regular game. Like I mean these guys, live long. I know we're gonna cover ice man in the near future. That assessing how many people do you think G actually killed? No idea, no one in
no clue, but and and now off, where in people knew enough for, like put you didn't, hang out, he wasn't like a good time, hang out guy, but enough. Where he came around and show gave him orders where people new like oh that's, Pucci Pucci kills dudes, ok, yeah and also they are. You know, what's interesting about drive bys too a lot of times it's kind of like in war. Again, which is when you shoot, have people a lot of times. It seems like you, don't really know if you've killed them or not. They find out till afterwards. Yes, when you go in a lot of times, drive bys are our mornings and to scare you and they're going to get whoever they can get and so you'll shoot into a car and not know how many people you're murdering in the process. So I imagine he didn't know how many that he murdered. You could probably tell you buy it invoices that he gave to his accounting yeah. They go who's, Haber work for his taxes and looking right, you nines, and you can figure out how many he was ordered to do but
makes sense, though right 'cause folks are like it was a trained assassin assassin, but it really wasn't trained. Assassin I mean Bush was appropriate. Pucci was an absolute yeah and he yeah you shot ten times in the back. He was on his motorcycle at a stoplight, and someone just walked up popped him in the mock up top ten more. She like Pucci Jack, a guy that kills that many people, it's gonna, make a few enemies. I think so. yeah in Orlando is just being reckless. He was. There were a couple of guys that I owed him some money he went up, he started talking shit, he pulled gun, they pulled theirs and they back and wasted him. There is some word that Orlando as well believed in his own mythos aft. Killing Tupac and became to believe that he was invincible yeah. It was it also one of those things where it like it was like. Oh so yeah Orlando Anderson killed two guys like well, who told you that, like everybody, knows yeah, because he was going to actually after he got back from LAS Vegas he's going like yeah I killed Tupac. That was that was me and I was like in the guys that were with him is like yeah. It was him interesting. So basically he's like
three bad criminal who just gets hammered at the bar and, at some point around midnight admits to killing Tupac in a braggadocious way. I will admit it here on the show and a good time, good good. I am dear David. I am the ghost that haunted that twitter user in order to for him to write the- twitter series. It's now. Turning into a film dear David had no, but I don't know that much interesting to look into, and it is me that who did it yeah? I am, but there is a new movie called who was phone, which I'm pretty sure we created with their own thoughts, but no, we didn't create that that's uh my friends all right. Well, that's the thing the Pucci Pucci was killed in two Orlando was killed? Ninety eight! So there's no, no rest here right as far as the actual murders go, but Kading still had the guys who ordered the hits he still had put puffy any still had shook right now. The two Parkside Kading plan to flip zip, just like you'd flip tv and eventually he'd get puffy. Okay, I can,
it's just like go up one more level, one more level, one more level and eventually we're going to get him ok and on the big e side, he was planning to wiretap phone conversations between Teresa and shook hoping for a confession, or at least other evidence, because he was in by no means like I am not going to put that woman in a room should not wearing a wire like we're. Not we're absolutely not going to do that. 'cause. First of all, she's going to be scared, shitless and, second of all, if he finds out that she's involved in this she's fucking dead, but should ill in prison at this point right so in prison. But we're still has a big reach, but everything is being record like all the phone conversations right, yeah, there's code, yeah right right day am: did you deliver the long? read to the president's house, but just as the triggers were about to be pulled on both operations, it all fell apart in two thousand and nine kading was abruptly and without warning removed
The Biggie Smalls task force due to an internal affairs investigation having to do with a completely different case involving a grocery store chain owner named George Torres, although it also known as El Diablo yeah. Really, in the George store at like it's another. One like this is another side story that you gotta, read: murder up to find out 'cause the George Torres cases. It's absolutely. fascinating, it's like a like a tearing murder, assault, extortion, like there's. So much going going on in this case the groceries. I know that's what I do about one slash, two pound of your potato salad, you, mother, shoplifting backpacking, chained to a chair, that's getting whipped with a good looking gun. yeah have any. Do you, those red potatoes? Red ones, are yes, yes, it well.
is one of the investigators on this okay and in that case skating said that he actually, he admits to wrongdoing. He gotten careless and drafting a document, and in doing so he gave Torres his law the opening they needed to overturn a huge conviction on a legal technicality. I see like they overturned a guilty plea, so he messed up big to get up. Okay, he really up, but it's yeah he up, but it wasn't malicious, anything like that an meantime, the press had dragged hating's name through the mud. It also shows, if you it's important when you watch the staircase. If you have milk, upon millions of dollars. Would you can do is have your defense attorneys go through every single layer paperwork that exists. Looking tiny errors, yeah you can manipulate yep, and so, when you watch their case that are spending a million plus on his defense of it. For for his, but the trial on his murder. When you watch it you're like holy shit. That's what money
guys going in tracking down every single fucking lead in order to poke holes in the prosecutor's case and Katie like here, yeah he's, got his name dragged through the mud, price who had portrayed him as an out of control, LAPD officer and those of course exist. Of course, there's dirty cops the only people who ever say that here, of course, of course they exist. Of course they do, but katring wasn't one of 'em but he was not just a mistake. He just made a mistake: yeah, and by that point kading already long since disproved pulls conspiracy, theory implicating the because remember: that's the only reason why this case was reopened first place was because Valletta Wallace Biggie Smalls his mom, had five Five hundred million dollar wrongful death suit against the LAPD. An by this point katring. It already disproved that so, As far as the LAPD was concerned, task force is already done when it was set out to do and pull
he was a former LAPD officer right, so they have a lot of credence to the claim number. He out cop himself, yeah, that's right. That's right, yeah and predictably, the LAPD clearly show it was never really about solving the murder of Biggie smalls, all the LAPD cared about was sinking the one hundred million dollar lawsuit, but the LAPD they didn't just shut. The whole task force down instead, they replaced katring with what's called a unit killer. They brought in this bike by the book guy named Alan Hunter, who destroyed, K Tings carefully. Laid traps by ham fist in the whole thing into oblivion. I have sent a letter to show telling him what we've been talking about him, because it's rude talk about behind a man's back and also what I'm thinking is. I know we have a lot of people in the field today, but I think what we should do is an ice free reading period. You have a magazine, you wanted to read it. Maybe one percent, one of the articles that would be lovely,
we basically did like what the head of the EPA Pruitt like they. They provided the situation. They just destroyed the Detroit TIGERS in the inside yeah. I think they did it in like season three or four of the wire, but it's something that police department actually do if they want to kill an investigation for whatever reason, whether it be political or whatever they'll put someone in but they know, will fail a big Dukie boy. That's like a big. Tv shows up in his only job is to suck it up, and they just did that because they had the five hundred million dollar lawsuit. Well, there's I'll get into why exactly they did it or what they're thinking. Well, I will say it was what my father always taught me about getting out of responsibility in the house, my father, who seem to think that the thing is, is that whenever you mother asked you to do something you do with bad, yeah. She just stops asking you to do things.
it doesn't lead to a life. Long, l o life full of frustration, rage and anger, no way, no, never seething. Underneath the attorney to Sir to the LAPD they got creating offer the case they put a hunter in and they ordered Hunter, to give everything they had on the two pot case to the LAS Vegas Police Department. He was like yeah, that's not they so just give it to the LAS Vegas PD and you focus on the Smalls LAS Vegas PD didn't do interjection with it. There's nothing there like that's interesting and then put it in a okay and with three six. They her way by insisting that she wear a wire tap in the same room as should not because Katie had this like just meticulous plan. And set up like what I said earlier like that was that was great. the oversimplifying it he had. This very meticulous plan set up to trap should night and
Alan Hunter was like. Why are we going through all that? Let's just put a wire on it will be fine how long as it grew it. You know, you guys understand the golden girls on understanding golden girls only on for three hours a day and you gotta check out because they play him in sequence, and I don't want to miss any art I mean my goodness, so they just gave her like a huge pointsettia that had like a massive microphone attached to it. It's just a microphone brooch exactly. Oh man with the LAPD's reasoning for taking katring off the case, that if the case did indeed go to trial, then whatever high price lawyers that puffy and should end up hiring would just absolutely eviscerate all of K. Investigative work not because of how he got it, but because of the whole Torres fiasco, they're not, Yes, there there I would have yeah this they're they're, not wrong, but they also never gave him a check. No, they didn't want to solve the crime yeah because it again, this is the belief of the they viewed
body, as did these, were about guys taking care of the their problems themselves on the faded out again. She's we're gonna shoot each other anyway. So why would we go and figure out for for us yeah if they re he cared about the case I get like them. Looking at and saying like. Well, you know anything that you know this guy comes up with is going to be kind of like tainted, at least in the eyes of the in the eyes of public opinion, but they could have put someone on the case who could have? Actually because that's ok Ting said when they he when he was told that he was off the case, he left and he said like. Please promise me one thing: please promise me you're going to put some in this case that can actually solve the look you there was a big human like talking dog I could solve this case. I'm doing all right now. and so the investigation fizzle. And nobody did any time for the crimes should night kind of sword,
got what was coming to him, but that was only because he actually committed another murder. and he ran over a guy after trying to force his way into the set of straight outta Compton a few years ago. Yeah he definitely did it. Without I mean he could He murdered them by rearview, cam yeah crazy, and that wasn't the only thing that he did like he. He wants paid a guy like five hundred dollars to punch doctor Dre in the stomach. Well, obviously I mean I could drop him. I would pay you five hundred dollars right now to punch Henry in the stuff. You can do it I mean if I get. If he does it, would you do it for twenty dollars I'll give you five hundred dollars right, punch! Mister Henry! Do would you forgive me Please forgive him for three hundred or if you let me whip you thrice with my bullwhip. you don't know how to use that I'll get to know how to use it. There's Youtube videos. I have queued up how much money my pain here.
all around yeah five hundred and three hundred dollars to me to forgive- and yes, I can do that. As far as the wrongful death case went, it was dismissed in twenty ten and The LAPD against the LAPD yeah and lawyer for big state, though, like they made the press release, they were very hopeful, they said the case had been quote. Unquote, invigorated and it reinvigorated until katring was took off the case following that, when press as police. If they were close to catching biggies assailant, they could only spawn with two flat words. Probably not probably yeah, I got it all goes yeah years of investment going yeah, I don't know yeah, that's a that's! The that's! The in the story is probably not because the fact is, I think at this point we can say that not everyone involved in the case got away with it always, get away with it and you know, put
puppies just going to keep on co host uh. You know is it now? Is it raining in Cali Lee with regions in order to Ryan and Ryan and Kelly? I don't know or not. I tell you the reason why they stop the investigation in the end, isn't even matter Becaus Tupac's car a life? This is actually what I want to hear. I want to believe that he's living in Cuba, okay, I'm having those let the little us there, some call. It is a fun thread that I found there's a bunch of interesting facts. One is a picture all right. The date to buck was cortical killed, except one thousand nine hundred and ninety six. The data in the photo is a day after the shooting September. Eighth, nineteen how is that possible? This must be driving and there's no keys in the ignition I would say that one one they're, probably maybe waiting for the keys from the valet into maybe the date was set wrong on the camera that took the photo, the key
be in the car with the valley, because it Valley would need to use the keys in order to get there, but possibly it after the given the keys to the valet yeah. They would be already given the keys to the valet and we're about to head out on Carly the wrong numbers that it has. Two pox wait listed as two hundred and fifteen pound. That's at longer wait, sir, to get that way because, but it wasn't like a lot of muscle. Thank you his license says he's one hundred and sixty eight pounds yeah. So the corners report that he's forty seven pounds heavier than actually is because, probably because he started lifting weights, you know what year it is satisfied with little clues. You're speaking out of your asses, I mean, I know, like you know that, like six years in between licenses like I know, I stayed the exact same way like the entire time and I'm sure both of you do as well. You should have in order to be in accordance with the law. Here's a pic could choose a pic of Tupac's, auto photo man that is in this picture, consistent with make up using one of two box music videos which year with a slip up this mean coming that two pox autopsy photo was fake. All
alright. The date is wrong, or could also be that you know the wounds are just similar to the sorts of wounds that someone has like during an autopsy and to find out exactly counterpoint, okay, two thousand and twelve interview with sure go should all right. He stated that he paid me and who cremated Tupac, three million dollars personally He goes on to say that after his cremation, he never heard from that. Guy again, there's. No one actually saw Tupac point right now: people have seen since I've fallen off the map right. Alright, thank Well. Actually, you guys recently said in several interviews with people said you think the two bucks a lot two pox capable of any- and if you don't trust should night yeah. Can you trust anyone? I got an email two days ago from someone who's out like ants, worked at the hospital and get salt salt so but there is one point who knows how incredibly available ways word against mine. They also asked another uh. They also asked a rap man name, I believe trench
Reach reach yeah Nutrition is Tupac still alive. He said. Haha last I saw him, he was in Cuba definitive that that we noticed up here in a two thousand and nine interview with two dollars for bodyguard, Frank Alexander. He stayed throughout the interview that Tupac's life was playing. Then his death was pre planned by God. Twelve years later, Frank was killed by gunshot wound to the head. Why he spoke of Tupac's planned death, that's not I that actually proves that he's dead yeah. I I think, thank you, Frank. Alexander, lived, a dangerous all know. She's got seven albums and also was cut to a mystical angle. Here. Okay, first post humus angle was that it was an album called Illuminati seven day, theory that was a record
long before. Listen to me, you piece of shape. Point counterpoint, ok, number. Seventy has very important in Tupac's career, ok, alright, so number one is query: lasted seven years from nineteen ninety and one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine to nineteen ninety six seven. He was shot on September, seventh, one thousand nine hundred and ninety six seven died September, 13th, one thousand nine hundred and ninety six at four hundred and three Pm Four point: zero plus three equals. What was the most I just abstract once to the day of his death. All eyes on me was released seven album have been released, seven sims very
yeah alright, who came back to life after being supposedly dead, who in the Bible who did that Lazarus that was the first one who Jesus yeah They don't call in the Don Killuminati. The cover is Tupac being crucified but, and they also but that is like another kind of he's alive. But I think also has more to do with Tupac's burgeoning ego and persecution complex, especially when you actually listen to the album, because it is nothing but sixty minutes of pure anger. I heard you talk as in Cuba and he even like, and human like the whole album assist him calling out people. He calls out haitian jack in like manner there like it's. Just it's like it's a very angry album, but I remember being very like after listen like when it came out. I remember listening to be like
igloo, what's going on with you buddy I just like being pretty like. I think it was yeah. It was at the Ben Westhoff in original gangstas, where he said like when now I'm came out like it was, people were looking for healing when it came out, but instead they just got pure right. Nobody really knew what to do as far as why he has so much posthumous material. He is trying to desperately get out from under Shug Knight swings, that's right and we had had a long album deal with him, so he he was just recording as much music as humanly and they were already prepping the move. He was prepping the move to another label, his own label, so part of it was having shipped to come with him and then get it all it all sorted out, because he was trying to make sure that he would be able to dissociate themselves from Sugas quietly in his peacefully
yeah. He was in his what's that Van Morrison, Album Astral weeks, although one or one that's horrible, where we collect chick pushy, pushy, pushy Foxit. It went like this like in a strong. He talks about something like having the gout, but he wanted to get out of the record labels like here's an album anyway, so he's going through that phase, and that happens a lot and also hip hop guys were extreme. Store nearly prolific. They recorded so because you remember what Biggie was waking up. next morning doing when the night you know the night, he got killed. He was going to wake up in the morning and go into the recording studio and his new album wasn't even out yet, and he was still record stuff is still going yeah. You know what I think is what I love about. Tupac's work ethic with there's like a little speech, were talks about how like people used to gather around him and he used to say, used to teach everybody and one of his things with. I think that's very important to comedy where he was just like book working on it. Real hard he's put it out like essentially like you need to generate stuff like kind of what fuqing IRA Glass said.
which is you gotta, get a out, yeah get all of it out first and you can get to the stuff later right, right, yeah, alright! Well, is that basically I mean that's that's about the long and short of it. Yeah wow, that's amazing, well great job, guys, awesome research. I really had no idea about the the intricacies of the the murders I mean so, but both of the people who murdered them are dead yeah. And also I guess they, thanks to to Ben West- offer, get ahold of us You guys took the directive and went and bought his book. He had a huge spike in say, although you like, sold out yeah, it is just awesome. Yeah go, I think, they're still copies out there, so yeah go to Amazon, go buy it. This guys book by murder, rap bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, Greg kading like that by these an also- and that goes for every author that we mentioned on last podcast on the left. Like please 'cause like these guys, they are the real heroes.
like these other guys. These are the guys that, like we were a bunch of nerds like we read a lot yeah, but these are the guys that actually like go out and spend the spend years on these books. I think Wes Ben Westhoff spent five years writing gangsters so that, These guys like they deserve your support. And they deserve your money. So please please support them. Awesome! Well, I am so excited for our next episode, yeah. I we have a pipeline so take to see I'm so excited, because this is this next topic of the thing that I wanted to broach for quite a long yeah we're going to fill you up with it all right. Ok, well, thank God, and then after that, we're turning the blood spigot background it blow my mother's pain, right! Ok, thank you all so much for giving too our patron will see. You in Phoenix will see you in Boston and we will see you in Philadelphia next weekend, a totally reasonable smart thought
outdoor, definitely well putting it all over the country, not everything out like three different intense breaks in temperature like different time zones and kind of a problem with flights. But now we know we cannot wait to see. You also will see you all next week next weekend can't wait. Thank you all so much for giving to our patreon. Without you know, this is possible. Let's see anything else, social media stuff, all of the other shows and check out all the other shows. We got fun side stories this week. Boiler alert were time hereditary check out top at page seven within the bruiser they got movie sign with them adds internet couple guys from mystery science theater three thousand follow us only behavior modifying our apps that are used to slowly bend us towards the apocalypse at Marcus Parks and Henry loves. You follow us, nice sunshiny highlight reel your life that life at doctor, Drfantasty at Marcus Parks at been Kissel and fall last podcast on all of it at LP on the left, all right,
and so take care of yourselves. That's all we can do and don't forget to also hail yourselves. Hail Satan, Naveen, Magoo, Stellations, everyone held me. What's another thing we see one another thing you said it. Oh, I said: hey, let's look now you see it now, that's the other show that other show. I won't do that here. I can't do that here is illegal, I'm just so. You can help me. It doesn't cost you anything now.