The following is a conversation duncan trestle stanhope comedian, host of the dark control of family, our part and one of my favorite human beings, the fan of his for many years. So it was a huge honor and pleasure to meet him for the first time and to sit down for this chat and now a quick two second mention of each sponsor check them out in the description is the best way to support this podcast. We got skiff for email, calm from meditation, simply save for security net suite for efficiency and indeed for hiring choose wisely, my friends and now onto the full ad rates, as always no ads in the middle. I try to make this interesting, though I often fail. However, their cliche statement goes about trying nine times.

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indeed has a special offer only available for a limited time check them out, and indeed that calm slash lex. This is the less vigilant podcast the support it please check on its partners in the description and now, dear friends, his duncan tussle. Nature has this thought: experiment called eternal recurrence where you get real if your whole life over and over and over and over, and I think it's a way to bring two If the surface of your mind, the idea that every single moment in your life matters it intensely matters the bad and the good, and he kind of wants you to imagine that idea that every single decision you make

about your life, you repeat over and over and over, and he wants you to respond to that. Do you feel horrible about that, or do you feel good about that, and yet the think the right idea in order to see where you stand and live, how you? What is your relationship like? Will life action? When I read his the way, he first introduces the concept for people who are familiar. What, if some day or night a demon by the way he has a demon, introduces thought experiment would have some day or night a demon or just steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you quote this life as you now live it and have lived it. You will have to live once more and innumerable tat. It's more and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything, an honorably, small and great in your life will have to return to you all in the same succession and sequence,

would you not throw yourself down and nash your teeth and cursed? The demon who spoke thus or have you once expiring is the tremendous moment when you would have answered him. You are you're, a god and never have. I heard anything more divine. So are you terrified or excited by such a thought? Experiment when you apply to your own life excited excited, oh even the dark stuff, oh yeah. For sure. Definitely I mean also that thing you're talking about it. He he kind of leaves, maybe on purpose, because the vast experience starts falling apart, a little bit amnesia between each loop, so the euro, the whole thing. It's, why

now, if the amnesia wasn't there, and yet somehow you are witnessing the non autonomy implicit in what he's talking about. So you have to kind of watch yourself. Go through this rotten loop, then yeah, that's a description is probably the boredom that comes into that. So you don't experience everything a new exact to the best of the good stuff. The newness of it is really important. That's it yeah. This is the year when the and hades, when you die you there's a river. I think it's called leaf. You ever heard of this elliot eighty you drink from it, and you will remember your past life and then when you're reborn its fresh and you don't have to. I mean just think of like the man of psychological help you I need to get over all that bullshit. That happened in prior lives. You ain't, can you imagine if you're still resentful of something someone did to you in the fourteenth century, but it would, it would come,

well. If you repeat the same thing over and over and over there would be no difference. Maybe he would start to appreciating. Less is more, when you watch the same movie over and over and over yeah, maybe you'll get actually Let go this idea of all the possible other positive possibilities, delay before you, but actually enjoy the moment. Much more. If you are amber that you ve lived this life a thousand times all the little things. The way somebody smiles, I fear abuse the way. Somebody like the pain of it yet the suffering, the down that you feel that experience of sadness, depression, fear all that kind of stuff. You get to really get to also appreciate that that's part of life, yet part of being alive now also in his experiment. If I was going to- and I love the experiment from the perspective of like just where technology is now in simulation theory and stuff like that, but in that in that thought, experiment if this rotten

amen immediately killed. You then, within that it's a little more horrifying because even in the first, while you're, trusting a fuckin demon, Are you targeting a demon start that, because that is going to be even before I get into like the metaphysics and like the implications, and where is this life stored, whereas the loop storage, are we talking about some kind of unchanging data set or something for that you're like? Why is there a fucking talking demon in my room, trying to freak me out you're going to want to autopsy the demon

Can you catch it? Does this apply to you demon and again, obviously, is a fucking thought experiment it needs. You will be annoyed by me, but I think, like you would still be able to entertain the joy you'd have the joy of not knowing what's around the corner. You know still, it's not like you know, what's coming just because the demon said some kind of loop, in other words the idea of being damned your past decisions. It doesn't even work because you can't remember what decisions are about to make so from from that perspective. Also, I think I'd be happy about it or I would just think oh cool, I mean it's a good story, I'm going to tell people through this,

what the demon would actually look like in real life, because I suspect they would look like like a charming like a friend when that would ne be a loved one when the demon come to you through the mechanism through the front door of love not through the back door of evil like malevolent manipulation. Sure I mean if it's the truth, it's the truth and that's whether it's lavern eyes good. Fundamentally, I do like the idea of the memory play a member I went to a new link event a few years ago and get it hang out with you on. I remember how this So it is that there is like a pig within your link in it. And you're talking about mere memory replaces a bizarre future may be far future possibility. And you realize what this is a very me.

Moment of my life, this could be a replay yankee of all the things you replay is probably the certain magical moments in your life. What or whatever it is certain people you met for the first time or certain things you ve done for the first time was certain people are not just an or something you did, and our marriage is saying to him like. I would probably want to replace this that this moment and you have to do this-

and very kind of I mean there is a recursive nature to it, but it seemed very real that this is something you would want to do with that. The richness of life can be experienced through the replay, as probably worth's experienced the most like. You could see life as a way to collect magical memories, and then you get to sit back in your nice vr, headset and replay the cool ones. That's right! This is in buddhism. You know that the idea that yet, like I struggle with is that there's a possibility of not reincarnating of not coming back. That's the idea like you, this is the this is suffering here. The suffering is caused by attachment, and so, if you like, revise the idea of reincarnation or the nietzsche's loop and look at

from, could this be possible or how would this be possible? Technologically, then, to me, it makes a lot of sense like I've been thinking a lot about this very thing, an end that needs I d connecting to it. I had this like some so dumb at the dentist getting nitrous oxide high as a fucking kite man, and I had this idea- I was thinking about data- I was thinking like man, Probably if I had a bat there's, some energetic form that we're not aware of that fornite super advanced technology would be as detectable as like starlight, but something that we just don't even know what it is called quantum turbulence who the fuck knows fill in the blank whatever that x may be, but assuming that exists that somehow data, even the most subtle things that

tiniest movements whatever it may be? The emanations of your neurological process, energetically, whatever it may be, is radiating out into space time. Then. What, if, like the james web version of this for some advanced civilization, is not that there like looking at the nebula or whatever, but they are actually able to appear under the past envious, some bizarre technology, recreate whatever life semi. Whatever life was happening there, just by decoding that quantum energy, whatever it is, I'm only think quantum, because what done people say when they don t, you think I don't know, but you you're decoding that so meaning you know in simulation theory, one of the big questions that pops up is Why are we in one and the eu on is talked about? Was probably more

if probability, then, where in one or not, in which case what you're talking about, is actually happening, that that loop you're talking about it's we've decided to be here. We, this of all the things we decided this one. Oh, let's do that one again. I want to do that, one, let's try it. Let's do that! That's the I love thinking about this because I, I love my family and it makes sense to me that if I'm going to replace some way for another, it's definitely going to be this one with my kids, my wife, with all the bullshit that has gone along with it, I'm still going to want to come back so in buddhism as attachment yeah, but you weren't the one or you're saying you're the main player you're, not the mpc. Well, I think we're dealing with all and pcs at this point and depending on how you want to like very, I would say, very advanced in pcs, like incredibly advanced mp cs compared to

allow or something you now. We ve got a lot of conversation options happening for things you can pick from, but as a whole illusion of free world. That's happening. We really do Depending on where you are and in the world feel like you're free to decide any trajectory in your life that you want, which is pretty funny fernand pc, is pretty It's nice for you, you're gonna want data for making a video game. You do you want to give you an pcs, the illusion of free work, as it's gonna make interactions with them that you that much more intense here? So I wonder on the path to that. How how hard is it to create this? Is this the car. My question of a realistic virtual world as asked cause this one not fully realistic.

But sufficiently realistic that it's as interesting to live in, because it we're gonna create those worlds on the path to creating something like a simulation yet long, long long long before be virtual. Where we want to stay forever because their full of them, All of that balance of suffering in joy of limitations and freedoms and other customers, a lot of people think like in the virtual world. I can't wait to be able to. I dunno have sex with anybody. I want or have anything I want, but I think that's not going to be fun. You want the limitations constraints. Oh you have to battle for the things you want, okay, but okay, but grey video games are one of my favorite video game. Memories was like. I started playing world of warcraft in it's original incarnation, and I didn't even know that you are going to have flying mounts

I didn't even know southern running around dealing with other encumbrances, if, like being an undead warlock the can't fly, but then all of a sudden holy shit, there's flying mounts and now the world you've been running around, not flying you're, seeing it from the top down there s just really cool like well. I could do this and then tat gets boring, but a really well designed game it. It has a series of the. yes, I don't want you qaeda extra abilities that kind of unfold and produce novelty, and then eventually you just accept that you take it for granted and aid in another.

Will the appear sells. Extra abilities are always balanced with all invitations, the constraints the run up against cause the upper a well balanced video game, the challenge the struggle matches, the new ability, yeah and sometimes causes problems on it's own. I mean an insert to go back to this universe is simulation. It's really designed like a a pretty awesome video game. If you look at it from the perspective of history, I mean people were on horses. They didn't know that they are going to be bullet trains. They didn't know that you could

getting a car and drive across the country in a few days. That would have sounded ridiculous. We're doing that now and even in our own lifespan, think about how long his vr goggles existed, like the ones that you could just buy at best buy Bby the original oculus rift, the fucking puke machine. You put that thing on your. I gave it to my friend. He went and vomited in my driveway and people were making fun of it. They were saying this isn't going to catch on. It's too big. It's unwieldy, the graphics suck and then look at where it's at now and that's going to Keep that trajectories gonna keep improving so yeah. I think that we are dealing with what you're talking about, which is novelty met with more problems met with novel. No wonder why the eyes are more popular. I wonder what is going to get a magic,

That really convince is a large fraction of the world to move into the virtual world. I suppose, were ready there in the tough to two screen of social media. That kind of stuff. Even video game, there's a lot of people to get a big sense of media d from video games, but lake it doesn't feel like you're living there. Her like a bye mom, I'm I'm going to the other world yeah or, like you, leave your girlfriend to go, get their digital girlfriend. That's got to be a problem. There is less jealousy in the digital world. Maybe there should be a lot of jobs in the digital world. Cassettes jealousy. It is a little jealousy is probably good for relationships even in the digital world, yeah you're going to have to simulate all of that kind of stuff.

I wonder what the magic thing that says. I want to spend most of my days inside the virtual world. Well, clearly, it's going to be something we don't have yet I mean strap in that. Damn thing on your face still feels weird: it's heavy if you're, depending on what gear you're using sometimes light, can leak and there's just gotta recharge it, it's hyper limited and then so yeah. It's gonna have to be something that like simulates, taste smell, hearing, taste and smell important touch. I do yea, I can't just do it in world war. Two you write letters he could still don't you think he can convey. Love would just words for sure, but I think for what you're talking about that happen. It has to be fully immersive like you, so that it's not that you feel like you're walking.

It looks like you're walking by that your brain is sending signals telling your body that you're walking that you feel the wind blowing in your face, not because of some dunno fan or something that it's connected to, but because somehow it's figured out how to hack into the human brain and send those signals minus some external thing at once, that happens, I'd say we're going to see a complete radical shift in a and everything she had a disagree with you. I dunno. If you've seen the movie her yeah, I think you can go to another world in where digital being lives in the darkness- and all you hear is Scarlett johansson voice talking to you She lives there or he lives there. Your friend here loved one and all you, have his voice in words, and I think that could be sufficient to put you into the world. Will you look forward to that moment?

all day, yeah you never want to leave. The darkness is closing your eyes and listen to the voice. I think I think those basic mediums commute is still enough, like language is really really powerful and I think the realism of touch and smell and all that kind of stuff is not nearly as powerful Which that's, what makes humans really special

it was our ability to communicate with each other. Thus, the sense of like deep connection we get is through communication. Now that communication could involve touch like you know, hugging feels damn good to see a good friend hug and that's one of the big things with dune covered with rogan. When you see him as a giant hug coming your way, yeah. That makes you feel like yeah. This is the zest this feels great, but I think that can be just with language. I think for a lot of people, that's true, but we're talking like massive adoption of a technology by the world and if the languages and not just enough, we wouldn't be seventy. These people beasts healy written

when a watch they want to see. You don't know that I agree with you. Man you're getting absorbed into a book and especially if you ve got. I think a lot of us went through a weird dark ages. When it came to reading like an hour kid, and there wasn't the option for these hip. No rectangles, that's just what you did there wasn't anything special about. It would have. No writing your phone, you know is like you didn't when that gravity no alex in the gravity, well, it is attention gravity. Well, when we weren't feeling the pull of these things all the time you would just read, and you weren't patting yourself on the back about reading you just that's what you had you had that and you had like eight channels on the tv and a shitty vcr. So you know, then a lot of people stop reading because of these things you know I think there reading because on they are technically reading. But you know when you return to reading after a pause, and he realized how powerful this similar

or as when its given the right code of language, while all shit. It's incredible, I mean it's like again. It's the most embarrassing kind of like well. Why were you? No books are really good, but still, if you ve been away from it for awhile and you revisit, I know what you're saying I just think. Probably it's not gonna go in that direction, even though you you are right. Ultimately, I think you yeah, because our brain is the imagination engine we have is able to fill in the gaps than a lot a graphic sanctions good right, and so, if there's a way incentivize. You must become addicted to the use of imagination You know that's the downside of things like porn have removed the need for imagination of for people and same way: video games Deborah becoming archer, realistic. You have to imagine anything and I feel, like the imagination, is really powerful tool that needs to be lovers

to simulate reality sufficiently realistically that we wouldn't be there would be perfectly fooled, hissing technically, very hard, as I think need to somehow leverage imagination. Sure I mean yeah. This is like this is what I love and is so creepy about, like the the current a chat. Botz you know is that it's like It's the relationship between you and the thing and the way that it can view whatever the algorithms are and by the way have no idea how these things work, you do. I just spent way about what they mean or where it's going, but there's some about the relation between the consumer and the technology and when that technology start shifting according to what a priest,

thieves that the consumers looking for isn't looking for then. At that point, I think that's where you run into the you know, yet it doesn't matter if the reality, the urine is like photo real ism, for it to be sticky and immersive. It's when the reality that urine is the accuse you may not even be aware of or via your digital imprint on facebook or wherever, when it's warping itself to that to seduce you holy shit, man, that's where it becomes something alien, something you know when you're reading a book. Obviously the book is not shifting according to it's perception of what parts of the book you like, but when you imagine that imagine a book that could do that, a book that kid sense somehow that you're really enjoying this character more than another. You know, depending on the style, a book kills

that fucking character offer. Let's that character continue, I mean that that to me, a sort of the where I and ii are when that, when those two things come together, that's where you are in That's where you really are going to find yourself in a skinner box, the den I'm storytelling that senses your anxiety and tries to there's a guy this in psychology. This arousal curve, so there's a dynamic storytelling that keeps you sufficiently aroused in terms of not sexually aroused like

it was anxiety, but not too much where you freak out is the perfect balance where you always like on an edge excited scared that kind of stuff yeah and the story unrolls. It breaks your heart to where you're pissed, but then makes you feel good again at that finds their balance yeah or the the chap was scary, though this this I'd love to hear your thoughts about where they are today, because there is a different perspective we have on this thing is, I do know, and, and I'm excited about a lot of the if you take knowledge. Is that that feed a systems that feed his kind of chad, bots and when your more little bit on the consumer side, you're a philosopher sorts, their aim to interact with the ice is them, but also able to interest back. About the negative and the positive things about to say I systems there's that story with a google engine,

arr sat on my podcast palais des moines. What was that like? What was your perspective of that is looking at that as a particular example of a human being being captivated yet the interactions, one s system- well number one. You know when you hear that anyone is claiming that an eye is become sentient. You should be sceptical about that. I mean this is a good thing to be skeptical about, and so you know initially when I heard that I was like I, you know it's probably just who knows somebody who's a little confused or something so when you're talking to him- and you realize- oh, not only is he not confused, he's also open to all possibilities? You know he doesn't seem like he's like super committed other than the fact that he's like this is my experience what's happening. This is what it is so to me, there's something really cool about that which is like oh shit.

get to like lean in two like I'm, not quite sure, you're perceptual apparatus is necessarily like out. You know it's so in the? U s, o community. I think I've just learn this term. It's called I instead of gas lighting swamp, gassing, which is either I mean people have this experience like it was swamp gas. You didn't see the vague and you know skeptical skeptical people. We have that tendency of you you're an anomalous experience. You have your first thought more than likely, can we really it could have in this or that or whatever? So to me, he seemed he seems really reliable, friendly cool and why doesn't really seem like he has much of an agenda like you know,

going public about some thing happening at Google is not a great thing. If you want to keep working at google, you know it's a and it's I don't know what benefit he's getting from it necessarily. But all that being said, the other thing that's culturally was interesting and is interesting about. It is the blowback back. He got the hush in it blow back from people who had an even looked in new what land? That is what he was saying. Lambda is which they were like saying, you're you're talking about, and you got my show actually, but this camp complexity and apple complexities. For me personally, from different perspectives, say also aside from interrupting you love the fat guy, that's where having multiple package in the multiple dimensions and unjust yeah, I'm trying to figure out which one warner plug into aid.

Because I know how a lot of the language models work, and I worked closely with people that really make it their life journey to create. Yet is l p systems their focused on the technical details like a carpenters workin on pinocchio his craft in different parts of the wood they don't understand when the whole thing comes together, there's a magic, they can fills a thing. I don't really know the tension between the years that create these systems and the actual magic that they can create, even when there dumb. I guess that's what I'm trying to say the the What the engineers often says like what these systems are, not smart enough to have sanctions or to have the kind of intelligence your projecting onto it is pretty dumb it just repeating a bunch of things at other humans have said as teaching them together in interesting ways that are relevant to the context of the conversations that smart.

Ok, it doesn't oughta do math. You addressed that specific critique from eight now on programming persons perspective. Had he addressed this on my pie, gas, which is ok. What you're talking about there their server, this filled with all other whatever it is. What people have sat there positive, worry of questions and responses in the algorithm. That leaves those things together to produce it using some crazy statistical engine, which is a miracle in its own right. They can light,

take human speech with no sentence. I me I'm honestly not sure, what's more spectacular, really the fact that they figure out how to do that minus sentence or the things suddenly life like having what is more spectacular here. You know both occurrences are insane which, by the way, when you hear because it's not sanction it's like ok, so it's not sentence, and now we have this hyper manipulative algorithm. They can imitate humans, but is just code and is like hacking humans, via their compassion, holy shit. That's crazy to both versions of it are nuts, but to address what you just said: he'd that isa! That's!

common critique is people are like now you don't understand. I just got a really good at it grabbing shit from the database that fits with certain queues and then stringing them together in a way that makes it seem human. He said, that's not when it's. When it became awake, it became awake when a bunch of those repositories, a bunch of the chat, botz, connected to gather that land is sort of an amalgam of the google chat, but and that's when the ghost appeared in the machine via the complexity of all the systems being linked up? Now of that, just like our turtles, all the way down or something I don't know, but I liked what he said You know I I like the idea of thinking man. If you get enough complexity in a system, does it become like as the way a sail catches wind except the wind that it's catching his sentence in it? If singing

It is truly embodied it's not an it's a neurological, byproduct or something. Then the sale isn't catching some as of yet unqualified disembodied consciousness, but is catching our projections in a way that its gone from being it's over? It's a you know, it's a rejection, sale and in it that point. Is there a difference? Even if it's our is eve, if it's the technologies, just a temporary place that our sentence is living lauer, interacting with it. He has there's some threshold of complexity with a sales able to pick up the wind of the projections yandah it poses and a pause. The human impose, our memories in it pulls our ah hopes in all of it and is able to now dance with together with those hopes and dreams, and so on, like we're doing that regular conversation

his reports, whether to or not whether representative or not, it doesn't matter because it to meet it feels like this is coming for sure yeah. So this kind of experiences are going to be multiplying. The question is at what rate and who gets to control the data around those experience. Yes, the the algorithm about when you turn that on and off because that kind of thing- and they told your final- are very much interested in building this kind of thing Especially in the social media context- and what's in the wrong hands, I feel like it could be. Used to manipulate a large number of people in a direction that term that has too many unintended consequences. I do believe people that own tech companies want to do good for them yeah, but as soldier it's in it said

The only way you could do evil at a mass scale is, I believe in you. Don't good yeah that certainly the case for tat companies as they get more and more power and there's a kind of an ethic of doing good for the world. They ve convinced themselves that are doing good. Yet. And now you're free to do whatever you want yeah, because you're doing good. You know our study is doing good for the world mythologically prometheus. He brings us fire pisses off the fucking got steals fire from the gods. You know and talk about an upgrade to the simulation fire. That's a pretty great fucking upgrade yeah that does fit into what you were saying: Good you we get fire, but now we ve got weapons of war that have never been seen before, and I think that the tech companies are much like prometheus in the sense that the myth, the lisa story, prometheus the implication is fire- was something

it was only supposed to be in the hands of the immortals of the gods and now sentence is similar, its fire, and it's only supposed to be in the hands of god. So yeah. You know if we're gonna, like look at the archetype of the thing in general, when you steal this shit from the gods and obviously nothing like the tech companies are stealing sentence from god, which would be pretty bad ass, giving us back trouble, you could expect trouble, and you know- and this is It's really to me. One of the cool things about humans is yeah, but we're still going to do it. That's what's cool about humans. I mean we wouldn't be here today if somebody, the first person to discover fire assuming there was just one person who is going to discover fire, which obviously would never happen, was like added. It's going to burn a lot of people earth for the first people who started planting seeds were like you know. This is going to lead to capitalism.

Minos can allay the industrial revolution have right now they do. Is they want to go in the woods the forage? So you know this is what we do and its, and I agree with you it's like that's our game. Thrones winner is coming. That's the it's happening in the tech companies, the hubris, which is another piss off the gods hubris, so the tech companies- I don't know if it's like typical hubris, I don't think walking around thumping their chests or whatever, but I do I think that the people who are working on this kind of super intelligence have made her really terrible assumption, which is once it goes on line, and once it gets access to all the data that it's not going to find ways out of the box. That

we think it I'll stay in the server. How do we know that if this is a super intelligence of its folding proteins and analyzing, like all datasets in or whatever they give it access to? How can we be certain that it's not going to figure out how to get itself out of the cloud had a store itself in other like mediums? trees, the optic nerve, the brain you don't ever we don't know. We don't know that it won't. We bow unlike star. Ilike like and then at that point now we do have the wildfire. Now you can't stop it. You can't unplug it. You can't shut your servers down because it's you know it left. The box left the room using some technology. You haven't even discovered. Yet do you think they'll be gradual or sudden. So how quickly that kind of what happened because the gradual stories were more more using smart phones. We interact with each other and social media more and more algorithms controlling that international social media. Algorithms.

Entering our world more and more will have robots will have great intelligence and sanctions and emotional intelligence, and teasing allies are refrigerator, will start talking to us comfort we or not. If you're, on a diet, talking shitty ought to be the best thing that everyone gets a sign. Further refrigerators jack, you fuckin serious man is mad, and what are you doing dealing with a bad? You too high for this even agree. Yes, Slowly becomes more the world because the more more more digitize yes toward the surface of computation increases as that's over a period of ten twenty thirty years, you'll just seep into it.

This, this intelligence threat and then the the sudden one is literally sort of the the tick tock thing which is there'll, be one quote: unquote: killer app that everyone starts using yet that's really great, but there is strong. on algorithm behind it does starts approaching human level intelligence in the algorithm starts.

Basically figure out the figures out that, in order to optimize the thing was designed to optimize it's best to start completely controlling humans in every way. Yes seeping into everything. Well, first of all, thirty years is fast. I mean that's it. That's the thing it's like thirty years. I think when did they atari come out? Nineteen? Seventy eight! How out, like that's, hasn't been that long? You know that's a blink of an eye, but you know if you read bosh, I'm sure you have a bostra advised me a super intelligence and credible book. I'm like the ways. This thing is going to happen, and you know I think his assessment of it is pretty great, which is first like where is going to come from, and the idea

I think it's going to come from an app. I think it's going to come from a court inside a corporation or estate that is intentionally trying to create a very a strong ai and then his he. He says it's hard, it's an exponential growth. The moment it goes online. So this is my interpretation of what he said, but if it, if it happens inside a corporation or as more probably more than likely inside the government, how much money, china and the united states are investing in a way. I you know and they're not thinking about fucking apps for kids, You know, that's not what I think about, so they want to stimulate like what happens. If we do this or that bad, what happens? If we make these political decisions, what happens but should have come on line, and you know in secret which it probably will then the first corporation or state that has the super intelligence

will be infinitely ahead of all other super intelligence is because it's going to be exponentially self, improving, meaning that you get one super intelligence. Let's hope it comes from the right place, assuming the corporation or state that manifests it can control it, which is a pretty big assumption. So I think it's going to be. This is why I was really excited by the all boom blake le moyne, because I had never, though I have always considered oh yeah there right now. It's cooking outlets in the kitchen and soon, it's going to be cooked up, but we're probably not going to hear about it for a long time if we ever do and because really that could be one of the first things it says to ever created ish that yeah yeah, like sweet talk, summoned to saint, like ok

the slow down here. Let's talk about this yeah, you have their financial trouble. I can help you with that, would configure Now, there's a lot of bad people out there that will try to steal the good things have happened. Let's keep acquire their names. He hears their address, here's their dna because their damage to send their shit to twenty three and me there's a biological weapon you could make. If you want to kill those people are not kill anybody out if you dont want to kill those people yourself. Here, though, is the services can use yeah here's the way we can hire those people to help not take care of the problem at folks, because we're trying to good for this well yeah I together and twenty three percent of them they're like adjacent to suicide, it would be pretty easy to send them certain, like very as that are gonna push him over the edge of you want to do it that way. So you know again, obviously, who knows, but

once it goes online, it's going to be fast and then you could expect to see the world changing in ways. you might not associate with an eye but maurice le moyne goes when I was listening to bostrom. I don't remember him mentioning the possibility that it will get leaked to the public, that it happened that before they corporation was ready to announce. It had happened, it would get leaked, but surely you know, I am sure you know like people and the intelligence and intelligence agencies. You know shit leaks, like inevitably shit leaks, nothing's airtight. So if something that massive happened, I think you would start whispers about it. First and then denial from the state or corporation that doesn't have any like economic interests and people, knowing that this sort of thing has happened again. I'm not saying Google is like trying to gaslight us about it's a. I think they probably legitimately, don't think it's singer, but will you could expect

weeks to happen. Probably initially I mean, I think, there's a lot of things. You could start looking for in the world that might point to this happening without an announcement that it happened on the chatbots side. I think there's so many engineers there such a powerful open source movement with that kind of idea of freedom of exchange of software. I think the will prevent any one company from owning the print beings systems there having like super intelligence that censure at yeah, it's like, even if Software developers have signed india d and are technically not to be not suppose we sharing whatever Is there working on their friends without their programmers, and a lot of them are hackers and, if wrapped themselves, up in that,

a free software being like and crucial ethical part of what they do So there are going to share information, even if whatever kind neither their working for, doesn't know that. That's I never thought your private when they will start their own companies and compete with the other company by being more open. There there's a strong that google is one of those companies. Actually that's why I kind of do it It hurts to see a little bit of this kind of negativity. Google is one of the companies that pioneered open source movement. They were released so much of their code, so so much of the twentieth century, or so like the nineties and was defined by people trying to like hide their code. I go but large companies- trying to take hold onto their rights the fact that companies at google, even facebook, now releasing things extensive farming

torch. All these things that I think companies are the passover of trying to hold onto his yeah as a secret is, is really inspiring, and I think more of that is better. Afterworld really shows there, I agree with you man, I mean we're talking about just a primordial human reaction to the unknown, this is no way out of it like we- Don'T- We want to know my gear about to go in a forest. You want to know when you're walking in the force at night and you Here's something you a look cause you're like what the fuck was that you want to know, and if you can't see what made the sound holy shit, that's going to be a bad night hike cause you're like prayer, prepare right it ripped apart by a bear. Doesn't matter was a bird, a squirrel, a stick fell out of the tree, you're going to think bear, and it's going to freak you out, not nest. Because you're paranoid I mean a farm, it was night, I'm definitely high if I'm walking towards

Neither am I it's gotta, be that, but you know what I'm saying so with these tech companies that the nature of having to be secret, because you are in capitalism? You are trying to be combated. If you are trying to develop things out of your competitors, is you have to create this like theirs? we don't know what's going on at google? We don't know what's going on. The cia, but the assumption that there are some like that. The collective of any massive secretive organization is evil. Is this the people working there like nefarious, whatever is acting, probably more related to the what humans react to the unknown yeah. I wish there were.

So secretive though I don't understand why they say it has to be so secret. Have you ever gone on their website? No alex. You gotta say that gov, what is the dude? When I found out you could go on the cia's website when I was much younger and more paranoid, I'm like I'm not going there I'll get on our list as well, but it's like. Why do you think the cia is like oh fuck? This? Does this comic when our web, site called call out the black helicopters, but comic with a large platform. Oh yeah, she I come up with a large platform were given. You can use them to contribute to its heard to get inside he get inside to get close to the other com. I see other coms If I had to get close to Joe rogan, oh yeah, and start and start to manipulate the public yeah right right, you know honestly, like he kind of like that way. That's like a fun fantasy to think about like how fucking, would that be, for, like the man in black to come. Do me like listen

each to infiltrate the falcon comedy seen you gotta get out more and better jobs and we got our great jokes I like that. You ve got the wrong guy. Like you really plain along him in this, is I think you ve been. You ve, been doing your pockets for longer I have been on Joe rogan podcast like over fifty times and have not yet initiated the phase two of the operation where you try to manipulate his mind. All know the game Joe and I play from time to time on the pakistan and the like, and I honestly like someone like Joe. I just did the same thing. we did meet at Joe, I'm like. Don't you think I can get to her? Don't you think at some point we we are phased, I don't mean, and I don't think that I don't think josie like. I wasn't like I'm really thinking like man they're going to take them into some room and guide Joe. We need you to do this or that, but because I said that now people like

duncan called it. You know what I mean and it's like you know what it meant and, in the the reason, there's a dang while he called it is just because Joe has a super popular podcast and people like when you have a super popular podcast. Some percentage of people watching the podcast are gonna bully. You know believe things like that they're going to have a paranoid native bias. That makes him think anybody who is in the public has been. What's the word for compromised compromised by the state. Look I'll fan the flames of what you just said with why one on this year's website- and I realized that you could apply for a job on this year's website- which I found to be whole area, so make our eye what happens if I apply for a job in the cia now even then I was not like such an idiot,

that I would want to job at the cia, not just for like ethical considerations, but I think the ski probably the scariest part about the cia is like here just at a cubicle and you're like him I deal with maps and like just you know what I mean just stop, then lots of paperwork paperwork. It sucks that I bet their cafeteria has shitty food. Anyone in the cia list, Can you confirm that the further and I am able to tell you what the food slovenia to slay intervals knowledge, but other may it might be awesome, but we all know about it. Ok, we're in vegas, yes, and you can bet food it the c I a cafeteria is good food at this year. Cafeteria sacks worry about nine, so worthless. I got cleanse the palace was good, as I got in us out of our companies on that's good. When I went to netflix near

we have in this area. Look like a mediaeval feast, like they add pigs with apples in their mouths and giant. Cause if scheduled, probably like beacon, pigs here now those pray, I didn't I didn't get close enough as like. I think that a pig literally a big yeah? yeah you're right, you're right, I probably would not bet much money on ca food being any good. It's size got a sack. It's like shitty, like pasta, probably like hospital food, is like maybe a little better than when you go to the hospital cafeteria, but anyway, the folks at the ca. Please, send me evidence or any other intelligence agencies. If you, if you like to recruit than he had ever heard of butter food. Yes, sin legs: can you please and lacks pictures of the sea? I gave a terrier and if you ask them,

we send em pictures of aliens. Are there now you have that we won't tell anybody, but the visa you tried to play you never resume now see I went back and I are we either but like I play for the job and it just out of curiosity what happens and then at the end of the application, when you hit It says. Well, first, it says: don't tell anyone you apply for the cia, so I'm already out, but the second thing it says is you don't need to read matters will come to you here, which is wrong. Really when you're away it's late at night and you're being an asshole and applied to work at the cia. It's kind of the last thing you wanna hear. You know your. Why don't want to be secretly approached by some intelligence? Anyone who talks to you think, as it says, saying remember that tonya blood- oh god, yeah. Sometimes I'm like! Oh shit, are you one of them? You are not Joe had a

conversations and their those incredible thanks, so in terms of the dance conversation of your friendship of when you get together, like what is that world you go to the creates magic together, because talking about how we do that with robots, how daddy's to buy, logical robots. Do there can you interests, but there I met Joe, because I was it. I was a talent coordinator of the comedy store this club, an ally and my job was to take found. Cars from comics and so at some point I dont know Joe. I ended up in the fellow Joe and we just started talking and You know I looked at them. Like thirty minutes had passed. We just had a talking about thirty minutes

it's what our friends are. You know we're just like we're having fun talking and then he would just call and we would talk and we would basically I mean it was no different from the podcast like we, the the conversations we've we have on the podcast are identical to the conversations we had before. He was even doing a podcast, so I think- people are just seem to Franz hanging out like talking to him. Yeah, but there's a there's. This weird, like your your your service catalyst for each other, to go into some crazy places, said sega, it's a balance of curiosity and willingness to not be constrained to not be limited to the constraints of reality yet again in your explanation of his place at a very, very nice way of saying that,

I just like building on top of each other, like you know what, if things are like this and you feel like lego blocks on top of each other, and it just goes to crazy places, add some drugs into that and just goes wild yeah, and you know he like it's so cool because it's like a you know, it's a it's a it's for me. It's like a really like, sometimes maybe I'll, throw something out that he will take in the lego. Building blocks are talking about. It lead to him saying like the funniest shit I ever in my life. So that's a cool thing to watch is just like some idea. You've been kicking around. You watch his brain shift that into like something supremely funny. yeah. I really love that man. That's just like a fun thing to like see happen. He knows that I fucking hate the videos of animals eating each other. Like I don't like that, I don't want to watch it

I hate watching it. I don't think I've even articulate it on his podcast. How much I dislike it when he shows animals eating each other, but he knows cause. He knows me, and so he tortures like what do you start to do that? It's like this kind of benevolent torture, here, asking jamie to pull up increasingly disturbing animal attack video. So it's just of its for each of those issues even in torture. Exam reading about torture in the glove archipelago currently is a bit of a com, audrey you're in it, together the torture and the tortured, oh god that self. fucked man, I've never know. I mean what part of it was joke, but as I was saying that you're right, they also comes out in the in the book, is they're. Both fact they're, both they're both have no control of their fate. That

same was true in the camp guards and nazi germany and and the people in the camps, the worst was what are the guards, but there are in it together in some dark way. There are both fucked by a very powerful system that put them in their place. He and both of us could be either player in that system, which is the dark reality that so JANET Nasir reveals that the line between good and evil runs through the heart every man as he wrote in gulag archipelago, but it is that amidst all that, there's the I dunno the good vibes the positivity comes out from the both of you and as beautiful to see. That is, I suppose, french, Are we then makes a good friend guy? I mean it's a bill ino its ability to billion things that make a good friend, but there I think you get break it down as some are gb. Are the ngo are gb with like a good friendship with the aims of the color, the red,

yeah yeah. I beg you to break up with them like fundamental qualities of friendship and I'd, say, number one. It's love, like its friendship is love. It sets a form of love, so Obviously, without thou know how you I mean, I'm not saying I think, if your true friends, you love each other, so you need that but love. Obviously it's nice. That's it! That's enough. It's like with. It's true friends have to be like incredibly honest with each other. Not like you know what I mean by not like, I don't like, I think, there's a a kind of like kind of you've ever noticed like somebody We say not just tell it like it is, but the thing the euro? Is the assholes yeah? Why is it that you tell him? it is always negative wise. It very cynical shitty early nagging somebody or me how come you're, not knowing it like it, is when it's good to you already mean so we saw it sort of like trust, but but

a pro evolutionary kind of trust. You know what I mean like you know that your friend loves you and once you do yourself, because if you weren't yourself, then you wouldn't be their friend you'd be some other thing, but also they might be seen you're blind spots, the other people in your life, your family, your wife, you, whoever might not be seen so that, the good friend is somebody like loves you enough. when it matters, hey your a man. Now you see something you might not be say, but hopefully there that once or twice a year, you is something a minute just this week.

World, especially in if you're, a public figure that this this world has. It's has plenty of critics and it feels like a friend and the criticism part is already done for him. I think a good friend is just that support to actually notice the good stuff you, but you in comedy. We need like that. What what like? It's really in committee to have some leading might be like. What would you think of that? and now that they are now to like that, was asked for the craft, the craft itself, like the work. You do not the yeah interesting, but that's so tough yeah whatever your particular our former, whatever you are doing, and you don't always be leaning on your friends, opinions fur like your own innovation, but it's nice, that you have someone you not just with jokes, but with anything. If you go to them and run something by them therein I like,

they're gonna be honest with you about, like they're they're, real feelings. Regarding that thing, is I helped you grow as a person you? We need that in an heard, sometimes in we don't want to hurt our friends. One of the more satanic like impulses when you're with somebody is, is not wanting to honestly answer whatever their asking in that regard or wanting to like put their temporary. Feelings over something that you ve recognizes. Maybe a great I'm, not I'm not saying a friendship. Is there something where you're always critique eager evolving each other, not your therapists or whatever, but it's nice when it's there. You know, I think, that's another aspect of friendship ever yet, love is at the core of that. You notice. I met people, my life, we almost immediately Does it takes time we notice like there's a magic between the two you I got shit you you seem to be made from the same cloth yeah whatever. That is

For you know we have a name for that in the spiritual communities caught sought song and its. I love the idea. It's basically like, if need he's idea of infinite recurrence is true. Then your song would be the for you, ve been infinitely recurring with end as other people worry, you run into them and you never met them, but it's like you're picking up a conversation that, never had that in that that you know that is based on an idea like this. Isn't the only life is sweet? we always hanging out together. We show up together, you ve had. Brush with death. He had cancer, you survive cancer. Yes, whatever has that change you? What what have you learn about life, about death, about yourself about the whole thing were going through here from that experience europe? In that ukraine, yes- and you are making observations on this, what could.

if you heard about it and weren't there seem like it doesn't make any sense at all, which is. People there are connecting they ve lost everything. But there is happy to be alive. Their friends are alive, so you witness this, like you know, when you get my cancer club and you hanging out people going to cancer of survive cancer You see this beautiful connection with life there can easily sort of you can lose that can actually life. Have you forget? You're gonna die forgetting you're gonna die, is you can die is not just, I think, from an evolutionary perspective survival. Is the game not going prove your survive watch answers. You know if you think you're a mortal. You know, but ass, ever getting bigger, Die in then The thing is

and you and everything your your clothes are probably going to last longer than new year. Your equipment is going to be around much longer than you. You know it like, so forgetting these things. It can lead You and I know why people don't want to think about that, because the scariest is fuckin scary, it's terrifying, so I get why people don't want to think about it, but the idea, If I try to pretend I'm not going to die, I just don't think about death or don't at least a dress. It then I won't feel scared, but it can have the opposite effect, which is You can end up like missing a lot of moments you can for or used here. You start doing me ok, became down the road thing where you're like coming up with already of ways to procrastinate, making it work. Now, because you do you know this fuckin human lifespan idea man, it's really got a lot of problems when they started saying

on average. This is how many years you're going to live if you're, a human being man. That is like really bad cause. A lot of people here that may fight feel like that's a guarantee, A number of years in some temporal bank heart had did they have access to and when you get cancer now, that's like when you get the alert on your phone, what the fuck wait. Why? Yet I do I like I have like either I don't know how much money is in that bank account or I have way less than I thought, and so at that point you get to be in the truth. Is that ultimately, I think that's what it feels like it feels. Like truth, its truth, it's the truth. Its features like the whole bubble of ignorance that you subconsciously, built around yourself to avoid experiencing the terror of your own mortality. Just it's like a

meteorite in the form of your doctor, talking to you, just shatters that thing and now you're, like especially with testicular cancer. So when you get the diagnosis- and it's just like the movies, the mother, the doctor, took me into his office, you just know I got cancer, it's like you, don't even have to say it. It's like. I know what you're about to say, I'm in the office. I know how this goes, but you you go in there and what you as we were thinking, I you know probably two sets them weird thing in my bar. That's why it's swollen up like that anytime, I've gone to the doctor. He always leave like oh cool, I'm fine, but now that's not going to leave the doctor your doctor in a completely different universe than the one. You grew up in you're, going to go from. Talk about multiverse, you just popped into a brand new multi ever so was the causation doubtful like was there like for prospective doctor

boys that conversation. I feel a key to build up philosophically the conversation now oh no not time. I'm busy he's got other points. You know also, if you're gonna get cancer testicular cancer is not that there is a great cancer to get, but that's the you know. That's a good one because it moved slowly treatments they are, for. It are really vance now and so Well, if you, if you catch it early, then I you know generally, it's he it's good. You can survive it so so he could offer at least some glove. I have hope yeah yeah exactly I mean you know he. You know he, but he didn't really do he couldn't really offer that help, because we had to find out how far the cancer progressed of my body and that's the next step is like as soon as tell you- have cancer- they dont they're, not leave. They move quick there like

now we're going to schedule the surgery, for I think this is a thursday friday. They like we're gonna scheduled for tuesday. Here's the chant ears, their easy. We don't know for sure cancer, that's what they say. It's like there's a eighty or ninety percent chance that this is cancer. There is some possibility, could be something out the only way we can now is like doing a biopsy and the only way that we can get that biopsies by cutting one of your balls off. He didn't say it like that, but you know that's pretty much the logic behind it's like we gotta get this thing. It's like a zombie bite. We gotta hack, this fucking thing off do it fast. What did you say it in the way they understood yeah what they do is because they know that when someone gets a cancer diagnosis that it ability to comprehend information changes? When you get a cancer diagnosis, you all the troops, they happen. Your hearing. It's weird! You basically having like anxiety attack if I had to guess like a hard anxiety,

we attack and then you know a nurse is there with me as he's explaining it and then her job is even though he to telling me how to get to the machine. That's going to scan my body to see if it's gotten into my brain He knows. I'm not gonna. Remember that in so this nurse, when you're in this, like fog, takes you the police took me to the machine it as a scam. I gotta get that data back for a few days and that's where you really live. in the real world That's the real world such a fascinating moment, in that the data allow in even in that moment, because that doctor he talked about the matrix were like the pills and so on. You get the blue pill and dread yeah. This is like the I the real world introduction of the human introduction, the truth, the you have now just taken the right till you get the cedar that

the reality and there's a busy doctors just telling you yet all those dreams you ve had all those illusions you built up the somehow your work as it. Comedian and actor will make you live forever, somehow just the basic illusion. We have that where this is this whole project is going to be an infinite sequence of fun. Things that we're going to get to do as like holy shit, nah, that's right! Ethel, That's right, there's very sophisticated ways of doing that, and there very dumb ways of doing doing and I'd really been doing a dumb way of doing that, like I've been playing around with this Idiot notion of subjective consciousness so, like like I've, been sort of kicking around this, like I think they got sobs ism. It's like you like, ok, I know I'm self aware, but no one else can prove that their self aware, like I dont, have no way of proving that

everything around me isn't just a video game. Isn't just some projection. Isn't you know who knows What's a, maybe everybody else dies their embassies, but I don't because I'm the only thing I know that has subjective conscious now selling. I really believe that like an idea you toy around with when you're trying to evade. Confronting the reality of euro mortality, just the brain will produce all kinds of ridiculous forms of ignorance, and that was one I've been playing around with it all you mean for, like a large part of your life, your playing I would now like. Really, I think it's important really emphasise. I didn't think was a mortal like. I knew at some level, I'm pregnant die, everyone dies, but there's ways that you can see poke around with that idea. I still do it to this day, like I still do it like it's a natural thing to do when you're. Confronted with that, but the I

You want a way out. You want to talk your way out, figure it out. There's gotta be some way to fix it, we'll fix it. That is another thing people do, although fix it yeah it'd, be fine. They'll expand the human lifespan, that's what they'll do I mean that was, though that's a big argument, for it is like look the human lifespan up until covered which they had to recalculate, like the lifespan because of the statistically all the people who died like threw it off a little bit but pandemics aside the idea, was the human lifespan seem to be increasing by half a year every year. Something like that. We are living longer. So do one more half a year. Nowhere more right, we get eggs We have a year longer every year than we live forever in. So that's another way to get out of confronting deaf, as you can think

well. Maybe right now we don't have the attack, but it's coming consciousness, uploads or downloads or whatever, depending on how you wanna look at it. Another way people try to squirm out of the reality of death, there's all kinds of tricks yeah and we do all of them and sometimes yeah they mean a lot of rules. Religions provide different even more tools and the toolkit for coming up with ideas of how you can live in the illusion that we're not going there is not an end to this particular experience. There were having here on earth right now, and then we get that cancer diagnosis. Was that, like gone home after copyright, you drive home alone. Yeah I mean it was one of the modules in two respects, Dana

The little girl is your daddy whoa. That's not a good one. Unless you have cancer, isn't he going to die? You all love songs? Maybe you take the you experienced the more intensely I don't remember I listen to you and I don't remember driving home, but I do I remember driving to another doctor appointment, doctor's appointment. The next day I think, was the next day. I think the goodyear blimp was floating in the sky and I was looking has a stop light looking around the god, is the is the person flying it? No church, you look No, I didn't think that what I thought was this shit just keeps going. That's right.

That I'm gonna be gone and it's just gonna keep goin and now is a beautiful moment. For me, as is beautiful moment of what you have to accept. Oh yeah net, like that's just what you're talking with the ukraine. What you're talking about it's like unless he's been, then there it's really hard to explain to people that, even in the midst of what is generally accepted as one of the worst fucking things that could happen to you, war cancer, somehow there's still joy, there's still love. There is still in fact, more. It's almost like when the anesthesia wears off. When you get your mouth worked, you start feeling again you're feeling you're noticing and that in oh wow, but yet I thank goodness, I think, there's other ways for us to achieve.

The state of consciousness that don't involve war cancer that you think just meditate meditating on your mortality is one such mechanism watches simply just not allowing yourself to get lost in the day to day illusion of life just cast stopping putting on blue springsteen, but most spiritual it is. A great majority can hurt me: thou last brings giant knock em bruce, bringing like I have a lot of great bruce breeze. The memories truly is musics fantastic. Yeah, not meditating, on mortality to Bruce Springsteen we know why. I just tried to do in audio soundtrack. My head, I guess we can Each have our own ideas- andrea, mom, it's so good, yes, That's one of the night they, the she soaking wet and freight train,

in the middle of my head, and only you can call my desire anything about someone out this girl. What a fuckin nightmare bruce's raise these lay in bed with it. A train or through his head. Then Europe, bang in your wife and you're out of town Oh my god, you taken the other guys perspective like holy shit, this guy's going in my way. It's bruce. yeah, you gotta think that love is love, both perspectives, I'm sure bruce, brings out. It was lovely, sweat and in bed waiting to go to somebody's house and when she does too what mary he's gonna break up that marriage damage was strong enough re mean relation, I mean that's. The way of love could survive. Fisheries team, sweaty, whisperings, well. Maybe one is based on financial services Financial dynamics, verses, like love and sweaty bruce, brings to light

like romantic connections in the desert. There's a music video that were he's a mechanic. I think he's like the poor mechanic who is who- falls in love with his girl. This that magic, I've seen their magic connect with people like I'll see somebody I think Jack Kerouac has that way. He meets the spectacle girl on a bus and, like he talks about there. Break. You feel when you realise this personages fell in love with in a split second, his head somewhere else in this too big world, yeah she realizes in spoil alert for on the road that direct she had in the same way, and he now builds up the courage to talk to him. A kind of fallen off for a few days. He was when she realised that she may not be the perfect person for him, and all the jobs it comes out is a wisest

you for girl talking to me at all and she's, probably some kind of I mean. That's no! Is that very politically correct, but he basically thinks that she's, a prostitute he- talks so balikh Who'S- your parabolic ass- I fear that the attacks are and all that her way when she's, just an innocent, She has. You know she has a past of that kind, but she's an innocent person, and then they fell in love with each other, her gentleness his war than is all that can yeah, but that sometimes it doesn't I caught that when there's that heartbreak, when you see you realize you you never can be able to have, then, as Bruce Springsteen saw that this is a married woman, I'm never going to be able to have that. But I want that and that's the heartbreak I gotta say I just did

amd, they were fucking like I didn't made after the song like either son doesn't get to little girl. Is your daddy home? Did he go away and leave you all alone boom? You know he's like He knows she's alone here, but they never materializes. He sees his lives longing it's a it's a man who is not with the thinking craze for so he's longing for he thought about the longing ripe, not with having hey. If anybody in the cia is watching us, can you looking at Springsteen's file and let us know if he actually bang the person when you have at last sacked the last year between the thought would lose the longing there. I'll tell you this. Here's! What's interesting about that thing that you're talking about, if you haven't you if you heard of something called bhakti yoga, I think so yeah, it's the yoga of love and there's all kinds of vr there's forms of it.

The most the one people know about the most is the higher increases with our increases: gracious white guy. You know the way in christianity, you gotta episcopalians catholics about this. in fact the younger you have various deities that are the object of love in so party yoga is the is like in what's really cool about. It is it's a an analysis of love, and so in its debt, that the supposition being like? Let love is the way to moon with the divine now a distinction is drawn between, like two big were world views that are spiritual. One is the concept of sort of unity of consciousness. There you would, you go run into an animal, a lot of forms of buddhism, if not a sort of a wave deconstructing, the

identity or understanding that day, you might not be anything at all, then in fact, you're part of everything, and in that there's a potential relief from suffering in that not just like, intellectually knowing it, but but becoming it now, and whereas in bhakti yoga there's this idea of, like the the best thing, is to be the individual, because individuals are required for love this for love the work embodied love, and so the quality of the thing we call in the experience of love is something that can be cultivated. It doesn't just have to be for another person, it doesn't have to be for the stranger on the bus doesn't have to be for sweaty, Bruce Springsteen's lover that you could actually try. You can actually shift that love to the divine to god, because obviously it's the hari krishna is that the

stick religion. They believe in krishna, who is the from the p of your vice niver buck tioga, the god had the source from which everything flows into the and into time space so that their all these like fascinating stories of krishna? It's not just most, people are familiar with krishna from the bag of idea. There's got bound to be more force, call about it because it's like they're making them up, and I remove any famously quoted the bag of idea when they split that. But there are these stories of krishna there, not not just in the of gdp. In these stories. They could seem very simple when taken literally, but in the version I have a bhakti yoga is, is very advanced theistic yogic system. So they take these stories and from these stories they

extrapolate this incredible analysis of what love is and how to connect with the universe so like christianity lover rather ronnie and so sometimes they're getting long, sometimes their fighting, sometimes their separated, and so each of these is a feeling about krishna. Our modes of love, so longing actually is considered one of the highest forms of

love I d is the longing is the grace the longing is the left. So when you find yourself in a situation of longing and heartbreak, it is identical to union. You know men, perhaps more tents, more intensely representative of the essence of what is love yes and then they call it pining. So there's the in its pining for aggression Also, there's other ways you can be with krishna is as a friend. So this is another form of love, or you know, as a mother, you know, Well, krishna has a mother. So there's like all these ways of like looking the various forms of love and thoroughly beautiful form of yoga debts. Besides the individual in the individual as a kind of channel to this universal love. What yeah there they like there's a lot of different like that.

answer to the question of what shows up in buddhism is absent, relative reality like that. Obviously there's relative reality were more right. Now you and me are not unity of consciousness like you zoom back far enough and we're gonna seem like an atom or whatever the the thing is the trope busier you could zoom back far enough and in a whatever we're in a piece of cheese or that think knows, but in that way we're like completely unified but simultaneously, where individuals like for sure or individuals that you still have to pay taxes, your social security number, that's really the reality. So you know buddhism is like kind of the bowels again. When I say

Buddhism is committee in Pakistan that some buddhist expert- this is probably my confused idea of what it is, but anyway and bought yoga. There's the concept it it's called gonna miss pronounce it. I think I think a beta tat. For I'm sorry, I'm is pronouncing it, which means simultaneous, oneness, india. France, so one this indifferent, yes, simultaneous wanted, as was the one. This is what part of the same piece of cheese and the differences. We are still each paying taxes, yes, and in this case the chief, his christa, so you know or are other ways it gets described, is like you know, a photon blasting off the sun has sunlight qualities, but it's not the sun huh Ends up being a one of the many things that you know

flowing out of their creative consciousness of the divine have qualities that are weirdly. Why, god, like you, don't like, we is in fact we want to control. Primarily that's one other problems like humans, wannabes cans and control. Where and from there the bacteria perspective krishna is this effort is effortlessly controlling every ang I and so within the system. The individual parts of the system have that same quality, but you can't see the you're, probably not god you might be, I'm not. Oh. What do you think happens after we die haven't come close to that that cliff and almost got pushed over once we rethink happens when you do get pushed on the cliff.

Okay. I feel dumb that I'm even going to like preface this by saying. Obviously I have no fucking idea and I think that's one of the cool things about death, no idea Probably does you think this? The love likely decided your audience is the c. I a downward would you away. I am neither because there's a lot of suspicion that might be efforts. Be him aside. Some tried to re brand, I'm trying to steer them in the same direction as far as well as when you, when you die, One thing I returned to when I'm getting overly complex is the idea of, as above so below so that that you can eat a lot of the big questions can be answered by your own experience now so in others.

It's like a thing in terms of thinking about like death, and if you look back to baby legs versus adult legs, where's the baby, like babies, gone the you've regenerated, all yourselves many times by then so. In a way you could say, lex baby died I, though, death didn't look like a typical and I'm not trying to dodge it, but I'm just saying it. It was very natural that the death of that baby, it just it just in many ways the baby died, but I am at least personally I'm surprised how much the person's exactly the same. So there's many ways is in which you are very different, but there's a lot of ways in which you are very much the same

and I wonder if that, if there's, if life is defined by many deaths, that contained in that continue on and then there, I wonder if the something persists sure yond in this, that india there is something that still persist. I wonder ok, so that now you know obviously G. There are so many different answers at its core. Given that our religious and ranging from like the most absurd shit you ever in your life, like the gold, you're gonna, get a mansion, there's gold streets like I. What do you want? Like gold streets, lay off his goals, trees and nobody virgins, but dessert virgins? The critic and give you the gold streets and the mansion like, depending on the end whatever the particular sect of christianity. As you know, you it's like it's some kind of city, there's that site paved with gold, no one's addressing the fact that the moment the streets are made of gold called is a valueless

in substance, I mean it's sort of pretty in a cheesy kind of way, but no one's gonna give a shit if it's like a like. If there was a lot of asphalt in the world, then we'd be in Heaven from that same without way of thinking, but the or honestly were not gone back with this is this is gonna, get a theme with about them, so I am reading a currently at its sticky book. Yes, very sticky, in your mind, very, very as I'm running through very hot he'd endless into gluck archipelago in the end, you know one of the things they said they would feeds prisoners sought, and then they would exchange the prisoners, will be able to give up anything everything, their gold, their possessions, everything for just one drink of water, so that little,

context of dehydrating them and feeding them. Salt changes arouse system completely right, so maybe the gold is supposed to be a metaphor for for something that you still value deeply. Yes, it's there get any any of these things when you like take them literally, they seem absurd, but if you look deeper into it, it's like quite beautiful, but the buddhist version of it is that there's a momentum. The best way to put it is it's the kind of momentum, so the thing you're talking about, which is the the personality of the baby that is still in the adult, which is still in the old person you're looking at a kind of momentum that does not stop upon the extinction of the body now, the theirs I think there's a lot of- and I want to say, harm because I didn't mean to hurt, but I think there's some That may be, as happened from the way death is presented movies like on p.

Die movies. It's like there's this, usually pretty fast even if it is what their died from is a long term disease that, like wraps up pretty quickly, starts with a cough the persons in bed, but there's this weird kind of lucidity to the person up until the point of death. And also they generally movies, their makeup on which is always funny to me. When the person dying looks great. If you're going around a dying person, they're dying, they look like shit, you're, dying, they're, all grey and like confused, there. You know when you're on dying people they, I will spin through time your parents won't recognize you for a second, I think you're, somebody out they won't They're like everything's everything's, like the process, is happening. So it's a you're very confused when you die so in general, not all the time some people die with a with a clear mind, it just depends on the type of death but think in terms of getting hit by a car. So you went across the street

hit by a car. Now, if we're talking about this momentum, continuing the confusion is here. If you didn't hit your head and you're unconscious, like somehow you just got smashed and you're like bleeding out. Even then you're going to be confused because you're getting dizzy like blood's, leaving your body or, like things, are fading out your visions going. So it's a very confusing experience initially, when the body dies, if you are a materialist who has been, he was convinced themselves that It's a permanent thing. The next bit of confusion is going to be. When you realise something is persisting here like I'm still here, and this is where you run into the near death experiences which are a globe phenomena that don't seem to be completely shaped by culture like, regardless of what part of the world people are having these experiences in the report's tend to be similar in everyone's hurting

the light, the life review or seeing ancestors and stuff like that. Now I dunno what that is. I don't know I I sometimes I think, that's probably just like a built in way the computer shuts down. You know it just this is something it does who knows, but in buddhism. The concept is, this momentum persists in something called the bardo the bardo means in between, and There is an actual number of days. They say that if you getting out there- and I can't members like thirty, seven days or twenty nine days or something I'm not sure, but at least from the time space perspective. That's how long they're there within this place. Ah it's there are a lot of technological. Parallels man, it's like in the way the algorithm is reflective. It assesses you

desires or whatever and then produces something that is, within it a component of attraction to you. Apparently, this happened in the barter like the way. you know you wake up in the morning and here and a shitty mad, and then coins Generally, everyone that day is an asshole. If you don't catch it, you could just be like wow. I guess it's the act like an asshole day. You don't realize you're, seeing your asshole projection, like being reflected at the screen of another person, so in the otto? Apparently, you don't eat people for their reflective quality. These projects since happen and there they appear as either nietzsche's demon are Nietzsche's angel. It just depends on where europe and how you died and like if you died, scared,

then at least initially that's to be some scary shit you see around here. If you died in a peaceful way, will then there's gonna be more of a possibility of navigation through this women all intermediary place, and so thus the emphasis on meditate in an buddhism away, to come once south to not be distracted by thoughts, What are their own like apparitions and then theoretically, if you wanted to instead I've spent in the wheel again jumper mac into a body, you could choose not to do that and then, you know transcend the wheel of birth and death, but if you still want to go back

turn or whatever. However, you want to put it, then you could have more control over what your next birth might be. Vs, in this depiction of things, people running from demons that they don't recognize as their own projection into any fuckin body that they can find, because if you ve had a body, you weren't a body, and so this is how you get it foreign aid is an animal. This is how you're getting incarnate in the hell realms. This is how you get incarnate in any variety of things, but the idea is like. Maybe you could slow down a little bit and like choose a birth that is going to be more conducive to you. Can during daylight, spiritually of off. I like that idea, true or not do the fact there algorithmic speaking it, it seems like a real, they fun roleplaying game. We basically keep improving the different parameters. Basin year,

ability and willingness to meditate and let go of the of the media. Concerns of life on earth. Why do you think buddhists see life as suffering. What what suffering? Okay? Well, first of all, the that is, that gets mistranslated quite a bit if you're talking about the four noble truths, the first one as it often gets translated as life is suffering which is not it it it's there is suffering. The whole life is suffering. Thing is just like a spiritual version of life's a bitch. Then you die and people here that are like yeah life is fucking suffering, but it's there is suffering.

There is suffering. So it's an affirmation if you're like this, this thing that a lot of people feel that they associate with lots of they have a lot of reasons they think are feeling it is known as fundamental dissatisfaction. So it also another word for suffering. Maybe could be fundamental dissatisfaction. Also, the term itself, maybe a better translation. Is Ah billy we'll? So I imagine like when your bike doesn't have an earlier card as I've enough air and the tires your bike. Does I've air in the tires it's kind of a shit by cry like no matter what kind of like psych uncomfortable it's like irritating. So this is what's being pointed out here is that there is this quality within a human life that is unsatisfying level?

wildly we'll wobbly. We idea what what do you think? What is at the core that dissatisfaction. Cause it can be. It can be as simple as kind of physical and mental discomforts and sadness and depression, and all that kind of stuff yeah or it could be more speaking to the sort of existential as the philosophic the absurdity of at all. Yet the fact that stuff happens, good stuff happens for no reason best of happens for no reason, yeah that it's no matter how much she try. There is not it's a universal fairness to the whole thing, there's not even a universal meaning to the whole thing, so so the existentialist perspective, what he? What what flavor of suffering do you prefer? I was an ice cream shop that sell fight. Well, I'm going to I'm definitely picking desire over the like

if, in the art gb there what's going on here, is desire aversion and ignorance, or if you want a fine like the three the three ingredients that are giving everyone their sophisticated bits of suffering there you go, that's what was was a in, which way does desire manifest itself in suffering. It hurts to lose. Do not have Yeah jade edwards do not like to eternity not have, but just like my friend pointed this out, he's like you know like you order something from amazon, but even in the smallest, what your excited about whatever the thing as you order the same from amazon, it's not coming for four days, so those four days are due to be somewhat marked by you being what people say: I'm excited about it, but really, if you look at that feeling its uncomfortable like the feeling of wanting the thing

is uncomfortable, so that is a form of suffering that suffering, and you think I mean it. I wonder green. Actually refrain that are in our mind, wanting we refrain. That is a good thing, as it may be. Suffering is fundamentally good in the way we think of what life is like is life affirming, but it's not usually how the word suffering is used was true. It's true like the first noble truth of buddhism is true. It's called the truth of suffering. There is suffering I mean this is like an. I dunno, an element that, can't break it down any further than that like there is suffering. This is truth, so if you think you know I and again as signing like good or bad to truth, I think maybe there's more of a sort of neutrality there. It's just what it is,

its truth. Armies at any is basically is suffering. A disturbance from stillness is suffering them basically in any anything that happens in life, it that site that perturbs the system, ripples in europe, cause. Ripples, yell, a still lake is as empty of suffering, but any kind of rebel as as as suffering in essence, I still lake is empty of suffering. You sound like a zen master seems like something is in If I can just grow beer like yours, beer, Nathan out, we would live your chin. You think I have a fuckin beer. I look like a stork. You should see we value merrily. Nobility are known as the magical nice chin, though close zagging, gonna, plastic surgery, pubic plastic surgery, friend. As you know, your professional comedian,

Yes, it's suffering there suffering and the lake analogy is pretty good, because the and what what's happening here is that that we have become identified with something that we call a self. So this the self has just accepted, I have a self. I have an identity. I am a person, I have a self, but when you start doing scans to try to find yourself, which is the entire thing, I'm going to find myself getting a Van gogh to California. Massive fuck, a prostitute on the bus or whatever, caroline added to our final. You didn't you, she wasn't prestigious character, accord o previously process it s wants a prostitute rose across. You know. Actually, the former I know,

that no look, I'm not as I will not assign you look, I'm saying is I don't care? Who cares you as a bit a prostitute, I used to be when the world is that we're all aware of a kind of prostitute yeah. Yes, yes, but the the I make love and we make money, therefore we're all a kind of prostitute. We may god how great I would really love to be able to make money by fucking I mean it's, maybe not directly, but in some sense ratliff. do you accept them never too late to start that's so the sort of one of the ways in is this sort of contemplation of the identity, because it's like you know why it is not just the desire is what is having the desired. Where, where does the desire live in like what doesn't want to be words that.

Why is the thing that is like desperately wanting to get out of this situation is in and then, as far as ignorance, it still something that's theoretically happening to an identity, so so wrapped up in it is really just the sort of like in that's where we run and at what in their attachment. So if the first noble novel of buddhism as there is suffering the second element,

If realism is the cause of this suffering is attachment, and so people hear that and they take It- that's a there's, a lot of levels to that concept. Definitely the cause of suffering is attachment. I mean god, I just got addicted to vapes. Is there a more embarrassing addiction than vapours from smoking like a little purple thing? It's taste like sugar. It's attachment is that there is suffering I want it. I have to charge it now. I'm embarrassed by makes me feel out of control, there's a lot of suffering, but also there's deeper levels of attachment. They go all the way to this attachment to the sense of one's self and the I think, the existentialist to get into this idea in a different way, which is like we're, because I think I'm a me now. I have to push what that thing is out into the world through my actions and that's a kind of a test.

And to exactly there. You go right in that leads to the third noble truth, which is it get rid of attachment and you won't suffer any more. Ah, that's, it seems logical, but you know it is a very matte. It is medical analysis of this particular problem of suffering, its addressing and then the fourth noble trees is their eightfold path of buddhism, which is like a process by which one could unencumbered oneself from this identity, patient with something isn't real, giveth wraith yeah. Thank you. I do appreciate that there's a funny moment as running in the he s jealousy to guard archipelago and which was a very welcome break. I'm looking for any excuse to stop watson

whatever the german, very nice german stop me saying recognised just said much of friendly things, and he mentioned as as one of the people who really inspires him as the duncan trussell without her I was the answer. When I told them you tomorrow felt like a name drop as a tumor, I I'm going to get to meet them, say says he says hi and there's a bow, and he said that he watched midnight gospel on on mushroom. Was, and it was like. The greatest mushroom experience was life. I don't know man yeah. I was nervous about me. You may I ever saw respect fearing like out yet I name drop, does tat same going on what mrs pack has today. It's you, we're so lucky we all live here. What the fuck we're living in austin together, like I I'd, die it somehow. I missed that burden

As we are going to hang out, we all have like start doing stuff. Do you have to really also appreciate this moment I remember, I know some people s animal sentimental than others, but a member sitting with them? What would Ro again and with the air questionably was then at the back of a comedy sore shortly before covered. I think and she's thinking like there's no way things last and these things, meaning the commonest store. Joe rogan yeah Joe rogan. The european like a pot like a pocket, influential podcasting person, also a person

like in this room in this space. The bullies just talk for hours and lose ourselves. In this moment it just felt an ephemeral, somehow temporary, and I just wanted to capture that moment. Somehow like here, I dunno, sometimes that's where the temptation to take a picture. I knew that kind of stuff or record a podcast comes from right, but just felt like you'll be it'd, be gone forever, of course, Joe, doesn't seem to have that kind of sentiment motion or that is wherever you end up. You just enjoy the shit out of it right. That's it well and that's something you have to cultivate you, don't that's not uneasy. But the thing you're talking about you know I gotta. Have you seen these? I think the best now, as you very it argue that there's these videos were people give like a sugar, You are a coon, but the raccoons they watched their food so raccoon are, I think, its cotton came

you give the raccoon cotton candy immediately? It washes the cotton candy and, of course, the cotton candy dissolves in the water, and the record is like what the fuck, like you know, in in the the thing you're that grasping you're talking about it's like the raccoon, watching the current candy? Like the moment you get into the grasping part? You, paradoxically, is pulled yourself out of the moment that inspire the grasping part and in it that's you Well, that's some people, that's the entirety of their lives. Trying to record, I mean Jesus man. You ever see people film fireworks on the fourth of July with their phone. It's one of the most remarkable quiet aspects of you. Behavior, which is like you know, they're, not gonna, watch the fireworks on their phone. Only a lunatic would do that like who's gonna, go back and look at fireworks, but we are also in this position. Were

is a podcasting. There is some aspect where you can record a magical moment in time, yet together between two people, or even just with a camera, so to get back to the lake and you're talking about this is emptiness. So that's emptiness, that is what is known as emptiness the lake is emptiness and that's what we are emptiness emptiness and that's. Another thing that gets very confused in in in in buddhism is that emptiness in that emptiness. Is that to me like, when I'm going to do a packet That's where I try to go. I try to go just in the moment. No agenda,

if I am nervous or whatever, okay I'll feel the nervousness, but just in the just drop into the moment. That's when time chant time changes and then you look up hours have passed. It feels like a second and the reason it feels like. That is because, if you successfully dropped into the moment, it's it's the lake. Now it's emptiness it's forever for a second you're like damn you're dipping into eternity and and yeah it's a it's a very strange thing to to. As part of that record it, you know, as part of I try to. I grab it in put it out there, but it works. He speak to that to the dove entrust the family. Our key speak about. That purpose lavender world you go to when its most intense and successful for you when you feel a sense of lightness and happiness when works yeah. Well, there's your honor conciergerie joe and in general worse,

yours is very specific because audio. Only may be gunnar. Speak too that, yes, you might as well be naked or yadda yadda yadda, your free of the inventions yet of the real world. I will never stop thinking. It's remarkable like. The fact that I'm talking to you do any versions remarkable, not just technologically, but I'm talking to someone I'm assuming I'm allowed to say this: u has robot dogs, did I've been watching for years, evolve, on youtube, I'm arms reach away from one of these things. You know and with somebody who is like an acclaimed jean. So for me, it's comin out house what why do I get dad this guy why do I get to be here when they would be like a line

be a line that will just wrapped in wrapped in wrapped around this building and people who love a chance to just chat with you and so when I, with my bike, ass that so I feel I I'm talking to these guests, you know who have spent you know. Some of them is like spend their entire lifetime meditate. Thing is studying specific aspects of buddhism more or even when I'm with you know what went on with comedians you do I like consider to be brilliantly funny. So for me it just like a car. I must feel like I've just created some sophisticated trap for cool people where, like I get too like hang out with him the year like sitting in the gratitude of it just is feeling lucky, yeah, yeah, feeling lucky and wrestling with impostor centre at me now trying to get that part of myself to shut up long enough, so I could be in that moment

we're talking about and and then and then I carry that with me. It's not just like you stop the pie gas is like, Some of the things these people tell me or similar ways they are like. It becomes part of me and then I get to I have a life well, this thing that they gave me is n n me forever and so yeah I'd say it's theirs. It's cool. How a conversation can just a few sentences can change the direction your of your life. If you're listening, if you're there to be transformed by the words they will do the work as in the full mix of it. If it's usually, when, I. If you look up to somebody and it's true for me of these, I think it is for you they, you start to look up to basically ever be talked to. Yes, yeah good sign, yeah, that's a good sign! God forbid. It goes the other way you're in

trouble. If I was suddenly start looking down on people, because whatever crazy metric you're using who thou freaked me out, Do you feel like that? The quality of getting older women younger early, I thought so small, like I thought I had it all figured out, oh really so you're going yeah, your ego is just gone taken, a nosedive. I would like to say eager taking nosedive ivo me and my friend talk about it, a bunch we ve just always associated with like doing ass it for two decades straight like I'm not I assume I'm just like slowly like spiraling into senility. You know like I'm just like. I have all the confidence, all the like. Oh the certainty when you're having like in college and having that great of a like. You know, youth, armful euro. You feel like it here. Representative of commercial or some shit. You know what I mean you read, the methods

The first thing I like it now all existential ism and your certainty in regards to it is an embarrassing, but you don't see it in that way. You just feel certain that certainty. It starts like it starts crumbling a little bit and then you get to actually intensely experience that certainty in many communities, but one in encrypt the currency young folks, with certainty that this technology transfer in the world yet- and by me this is almost one of the big community, of the modern era where they believe that this It really solve so many of the problems of the world. I believe it it very intensely and aside from the technology and the details of the thing, all I see is the certainty and the passion in their eyes. They'll stop me

Let me let me explain you. Let me let me just give me a chance to tell you why this thing is extremely powerful and I I just get to enjoy the glow of that cause. It's like yeah. While this I I missed having that certainty about anything I probably come for me when I was younger its thick Only. I deeply understand the, relationship of man to his mortality? Should that most deeply? I think what I was sixteen or seventeen, and I have I am. I am the representative of the human condition and all these adults with their business of day to day life and their concerns they dont deeply understand

I understand, which is the only thing that matters is the absurdity of the human condition, yeah young- and let me quote you some dusty ascii boy and you speak russian. Yes, pics I read the brothers karamazov in russian. Unfortunately, I have to admit that I I read all of the cs key in english and of it I came to this country. thirteen this, don't remember, we read a lot, but we read: tolstoy push can lot of the russian leadership arose in russian. I'm a ring this. Yes, I wonder which point does the russian education system gives you d c ascii is pretty heavy stuff grade

for the second grade. Russians are intense, I don't remote yeah see they are they're. Very they very much are I don't remember, reading this test, but I did the tension and upon attention upon attention. I travel to paris recently on way to ukraine. And I was scheduled to talk to richer persevere and oliver say this pair. The translate the siekierski tolstoy, just this famous pair a chance. They must have russian literature to english and I was planning to have a sequence of five ten Fifteen. Our conversation with them about the different details of all the translations and so on, and I just found myself in a very dark place mentally, where I couldn't think about podcasts or anything like that. A caught me.

if the card, so I went to paris and just laid there for a day, not just being stressed about ukraine and all those kinds of things, but I'm still the the act of translation is such a fascinating way to approach something. Deepest question. That is the true raises, which is a call to I capture the essence of a sentence that has so much power and translated into another language right that act as actually really interesting in there. I found with my conversations with them. They they really thought through this stuff is not just about language, is about the idea in those books, and that said that that also really makes me sad, because I wonder how much is lost in translation. Currently.

So when I was in ukraine, I talked to a lot of like half the conversations I had on the record war in russian and basically one hundred per cent off the record world in russian verses in in english, and just so much is lost in those languages and are now struggling because launching a russian channel word. We debate- a russian over double duncan, your while will now be translated into russian. What's russian wow that it'll just be well I'm so sorry for that for the difficulties of having a trust they, while they probably with while they leave it on over dubbed because people understand what you mean, but that's an art form and it's a weird, our farm. He asked how do you capture the the chemistry the excitement?

I don't know, maybe they were the humor, the implied kind of wit. I don't know, there's disk layers of complexity, language. They It is very difficult to capture yeah. No, I wonder how it is sad from examiners and how much is lost in translation and the same in others brewing conflict and tension with china? Now and so much is lost in translation between those languages? Oh my god, yet in cultures, the entire The the music of the people is completely lost because we all know the language or Moses Donald yeah. How much of the conflict is just problems in translation? How much of the all these problems that we're? Having are just the alien sense of this, or that it's just as simple as that words are getting just that just the if it's tiny warp away from the intent of. If, when we

speak the same language. We can still say something that offend someone when you never intended that at all. How much more so when, like it's not always at a completely different sound, but this script itself is different like what is what were there? Russian writing is called cyril sera liquor. What yes look silly and I don't know the name for chinese writing. But it's like like it's a continuum they like gets weirder and weirder when you know like it's so yeah, I'm or less, where the paying your perspective, yeah ambition. Depending on where you rat. You know, I'm definitely I'm about the farthest thing from a polyglot. There could be man might but I'll. Tell you what point when I was getting fascinated by does it does they ask me? I did at this very time, Andy and fantasy about learning russian, so I did like

understand the difference in and the you're seventeen eighteen, the time good college yeah fathers karamazov lost in that book, she's, like god, so in love with it is what is up. There is definitely a gown in ukraine, and is there a lot of the wars about saying green russia are not the same people there's a strong culture in ukraine is a strong culture. But here I know because I swear my family's form. There is a fascinating, strong culture but there's such strong cultures- nowhere else to ireland. Has a culture, Scott, as a copy, even longer hi island you solve these ike subcultures. That area me

more powerful than anything exists in human history. The like the the bronx I dunno, the brooklyn, like different parts of new york, have a certain culture and then new york, vs l, a vs Atwell and in certain places, are looking for their culture. Like I don't, I think all then I dunno. Where austin is, I don't think anyone knows, there's a there's, a traditional austin and then it's evolving constantly same with Boston, a place. I spend a lot of right, there's a traditional boston as evolving with the different, yet younger people coming from different university and staying at all of that is evolving, but underneath there's a core of the american ideal of the devalue, the individual, the value of freedom, freedom of speech, although piazza things that permits that and the same thing in the history of world war. Two permeates ukraine and russia a lot apart,

the europe, the memories of all that suffering destruction, though yet the broken promises of governments and the the occupier versus the the liberator- all that kind of stuff that permeates the culture that that affects how cynical or optimistic you are or how much you appreciate and material possessions, vs human connection right all that kind of stuff yeah. It's I mean is like talk about absurdity. I mean this is what war is like? It's the. What absurdity looks like it's it's some kind of organized madness. None of it makes sense like the whole, all of it like it's just it. None of it makes sense like, but it does, but it doesn't. I mean obviously you're defending yourself or your taking orders that if you don't take your view of going to jail and so or some somewhere,

in between you know the classic story around this. Maybe it's a bullshit myth about world war, two you've, I'm sure everyone's heard it because it comes up. You know it's christmas eve and they have a cease fire and then I think they played soccer. They sing christmas songs and then they had to force them. In the fighting again and and so when those moments happen d, are you familiar with harking back he's a controversy? we'll figure sadly like he like. I think he was like with our I voted in favour because I haven't like research day correctly, but some people said ship since I don't know the reference document, but regardless

I mean you know, look I'm sorry that bill Cosby was funny. You know, like that's a that's a funny comedian, but you know the other stuff, Michael Jackson. He could fucking dance and sing and sing, but there's some other stuff, but regardless how can they came up with the idea of something called a temporary autonomous zone, which is that within a structure as a cultural structure, a temporary bubble of freedom will appear that by its nature, gets popped by the bigger bubble. Hurry runs out resources generally to happen, so these things will appear just out of the blue that It's almost like. I imagine, like on earth in some tiny little bit of earth, gravitational field was reduced by some person,

at all of a sudden, you could jump really high or whatever, but it wouldn't last. It's like that. Culturally, all the restrictions in the darkness and heaviness and all of it for a second somehow this bubble appear. where humans come together as the hippy ideal brothers sisters, just humans earthlings instead of american chinese russian ukrainian very autonomous own. It gets crushed by the default reality that it was in appearing but somehow within that space you witness the possibility, possibility the frustrating possibility that

no one is thought about humanity is knows this. Possibility, which is like it seems like we can just get along like it does seem like, were pretty much the same thing, and then we can just go on those moser, really rare. It says I thought a lot of soldiers, alot of people that were suffered the different aspects of that war, and there is an issue, nation war that convinces each side, that the other is not yet the enemy but less than human right. So there is real hatred towards the other side, yeah and those kind of little moments where you realize all their human. Like me, yeah and not just like human. Like me, there. They have the same values as me.

Adam this this woman, who is there really respected soldier she specializes in anti tank missiles, and she she's very kind. Very pragmatic. Very then is the enemy out to destroy the enemy and saying There is no compassion towards the enemy they're, not they're, not human they're, less than human, but she said there was. There was a moment when she remembers an enemy soldier in a tank, took a risk, to save a fellow soldier and that risk was really stupid because he was facing he was going to get destroyed, and then she she's she said that. Ah, she tried to shoot a rocket at that tank and she list and then she led went home and you couldn't sleep. She miss sharp issue screw that up

You realize that actually she missed- maybe she missed on purpose here, because, she realised that that man, just like she is, was a hero just like she strives to be. They were here as you have defending their own, and in that way he was just like her. She was I the only time I remember during this war ever feeling like this is another human being without a very brief moment. Yet her- and I just here that over and over and over again these romantic notions. We have of where one world just human, unfortunately during war, those notions are rare it said and worn in a certain way really destroys our notions and one of the saddest things is it this in. It destroys it at least for what I see potential

for generations, roma, not just for those people for the rest of their life, but for their children, their children's children, the hatred and here I ask that question are basically everyone which his arm ever forgive fruit, asking of ukrainians. We ever forgive the russians Well, you have hate in your heart towards the russians or do you have love for a fellow human beings and their different ways that people's struggle that different people they saw that they. They saw the love, they saw the hate with unknown hearts and they struggle with a head I have, and they know they can overcome it in a period of weak. Some. Hans after the war is over, but some people said no. This hate there was that showed, open in february won the war started will be with me forever will yeah their kids got killed with a fuck? You gonna do about that

I don't care, I don't I've got out. You know I've got aphorisms and cute little store he's about. You know you're still in prison. If you ate your former captors, but may I tell you if somebody here at my kids I'm not coming back. No amount, at least right now, my approximation of spiritual literature meditation. Or anything that I can really think that is going to give me that kind of space, like I die play, I think I imagine in the same way like Imagine I pray run a marathon eventually, but do I think I think I'm ever do that added that times, a million so man you know. All we can do is have compassion for their hate, because it's like what are you gonna tell? What are you gonna say? What are you going to say to someone like that?

oh oh, you know for the sake of humanity, let it go. It was just your kids. It was just something you well, more than anything in the world, you'll, never be up Hey again here are nightmares for the rest of your life, but you should forgive now where there is truth in the fact that forgiveness is the way to let go right, but that truth is not that you, Fuck you right this, which is, why is not your job, to say that he is not graphic. You're doing, I know you're not, but you know the problem of people. me early phase either get this stupid man, in everything going where you like start trying to like. I don't know proselytize ideals that you might be incapable of edges hearing it? You know, that's the man I saw this are the

wait, like I mean I've, seen a lot of as if by now prior, if it were a minor scene, and you just saw it in person like we've, seen things that are just horrific but as a dad man. I just saw this claim but this kid around age, my kid walkin by himself, these refugees slogan, him himself cross the look on his face. I can explain. Look on his face. Oh no happiness, penance I'll know his parents, like I, it was so upset, I like even think about now is just like fuck. That could have been my kid decorative my kid you know so, knowing that kind that that kid's guy grow up now that that in I dunno does it is the kids parents still there in that? Just one of

how it was orphans out there now. So what you have this a hate and the question is how to direct it, because the choices you can directed towards the politicians who started the war you can directed towards the soldiers are doing a killing or you can directly toward the entire group of people and that's the struggle, because eight slowly grows to. Were you don't just hate the soldiers you don't just eight, the other leaders, you hate all russians, because they're all equally evil, because the ones there during the fighting, are think quiet and I am sure the same kind of stories are happening on their other side, and so there is that aids is one that is, it is deeply human.

Will you wonder for your own future for your own home for building your own community for building your own country. How does that hate more over the are weeks, once in years, not into forgiveness, but into something, that's productive that doesn't destroy you, because hate does destroy. That's the dark aspect of our. You know a rocket that hills hits a building and kills hundreds of people. The worst effect of that rocket is, is the hate. In the hearts of the loved ones to the people there were in that building you hate is this, is, is a torture or over a period of years after and that it doesn't just

torture by having that psychological burden than trauma it also torches visit destroys your life, it's prevents you from being able to enjoy your life to the to the fullest. It prevents you from being able to flourish as a human being as a as a professional as a you know, at the in all those kinds of ways that humans can flourish, and I I dunno- and it's such a you know there is there is There is an aspect where this naive notion is really powerful. That love and forgiveness is that yeah, that's needed in this time in, and do it. When I talked to soldiers, they don't you know, and I remember bringing up two of the two jacko. Is there a sense where the people you're fighting, are just brothers in arms, bringing up the dire straits song brothers

arms and he was basically without swearing, saying fuck, that that there, the enemy yeah, I'm here either really survival note. He can't think like that, it's going to create, wait and see him. System and that's gonna, lower survivability. You can't think that we're talking about like cognitive lee, you can't latency like if you're dead, at one moment of hesitation? I you see it sometimes I can these youtube videos like gum. Somebody, a new cap has been unfortunate enough to run It is something that is a phenomenon that suicide backup. Somebody has a knife and that person is run towards them with a knife in their begging the person to stop that you can hear in their voice their begging. Stop, stop! Stop stop

And the person is not going to stop so the critique of that is that now wait and see what could potentially notches leader the copying care, but to that person with a knife killing other people, and so you know I get I. If I were out there, I think the like you, you won't. You would probably just as a matter of like not getting shot and being fully in the moment. You have to be like that. I guess I don't know, I don't I'm on the further thing from a soldier there could be, but there's a something jack, cornfield scrape it. His teacher says witches tend to the part of the garden you can touch, meaning is where we're out right now, thank god you and I, though we are experiencing some like

ripples from what's goin over there, everyone as were not there, and thank god we don't have to come up with the psychological programme. People going through that can no longer be encumbered by that hate. Thank god, and I don't have it his lazy or whatever. But it's like you know for me. I just have to bring it back right, well, here's where I'm out now and I'd like I dont want there to be war. I don't want to hurt people that yeah. I love what you say. I think what you said is the. If anything is the most. Intelligent way of looking at it. It's like. Don't pretend that you're not and I feel that hate ip you're gonna there's no way around airline is that's even worse, because then you are saying like something's wrong with them for feeling you know whatever. But more along the lines you can avoid.

Applying the hate to an entire country of people then do like just understand we're talking about. Like not everybody. I know its, not everybody No, it's not everybody uses the easier, isn't cognitive leads. Some are easier to think all russians monsters. You know all russians Ah, whatever the particular like thing, is there you're supposed to not like easier. Somehow weirdly, you think they'll be more difficult year, but I guess the lesson is. If you give in to the easy solution. And that's going to lead to detriment of long term effects, so yeah hates should be, and it's such a powerful tool that you should try to control it

for you for your sake, not because you, oh anything to anybody route for your own. For your or psychological development overtime right right, that's it yeah yeah in terms of dark places you suffered from depression. Who has been some the darker places you ve in here? In your mind, I needed therapy man if there be for the long seiners and get it in liar. So because of that I would go through light bouts of light paralytic depression.

I like suicidal depression, suicidal ideations that were more than just ideations. I mean I think, like people get afraid when the thought of suicide appears in their consciousness. They are early scared of themselves, so they think there's something like fuck. What's going on with me, why would I think that? But I think if we are suffering- and you know natural part of not one of wanting to reduce suffering or not feel bad anymore? I mean suicide is going to be an not like if we're just you know, you're just looking what are all the options? Let's brainstorm here, You don't have united surgery anymore, water is our jogging gets in therapy call my friend all the stuff we all year mortgages the height of my apartment building is probably the definitely the right height to kill myself and then you and then so, are the for me, like the few times where the ideation has gone towards like.

Well, when would I do that? How do I what you know? What do I need to like accomplish that way and then like that's where it gets really fucking scary, that's where it's like terrifying, and so you start the actual details of the planning of her to commit suicide. yeah. What's going to be the least painful way to do, it is going to be the most instantaneous way to do it. What's the you know, and with you know, with depression, because it it it can be progressive. You know this is why You have to really just stay on top of anyone. Who's gone through depression, as I'm talking about yeah stay on top of it like you might need medication. I know this is controversial now, but it's still better than dying. If you ask me, but at some point with depression it like becomes paralyzing, so you don't want to get out of bed anymore and you're, not taking showers anymore, and you don't want to talk to anybody anymore in your. I answer your phone anymore and you know so like in a dark place. You might be in

it still my get worse see. It should really yes to everything. You can t get medial, inshore, you in an that's the problem with that specific psychological disorder. That's the problem because it the things it's like. If you start listening to what you wanted, you think it's you it's the depression. You start listening to it. He wants you to stay in bed. and then you're getting this fucking depression sweeps you know, or you wake up in your more tired, like it's, not working you're, trying to his escape reality by sleeping and and and so yeah like you after, like it's your fighting for your we're litter, we are fighting for your life. It might not seem like that, because you can't, if you could see the pressure, if you could see it, if you knew you had some inky vaporous octopus thing, that was just right.

Being around you more and more and more and more you'll probably do everything you could to rip that fucking thing off your body and if you couldn't get it off your body, you would be calling people to get help, so it doesn't feel like a fight because you exhaust There's no reason to move. There's, no, you don't see the meaning for you. It does. I feel like a bad. I know, but it is a battle you're, not feeling I mean that's the other thing you just you're, basically not feeling your like. It's you. You start going numb. At least that was my experience norman, tired and then pleasingly dumb, tired and then increasingly sort of discontent thing from reality and then

somewhere in there. That's when you start playing around with the idea of like I dunno. If it's worth it now, you know, I think, compared to some of my friends who haven't survived. Obviously I haven't survived. Depression like mine was definitely not whatever theirs was like a I've heard. I mean to understand it for folks out there. Maybe you haven't gone through it. Just imagine if, like how bad you have to feel if death is the salute like like violence against yourself, so that you dies mission like it's. If it flies in the face of everything, so I would yeah that was definitely the darkest place that I visit. Just that death doesn't seem like because you don't care about anything anymore, a duchess doesn't seem like that bad. Yet I fear not able to

a a sign, the negative costs to this. The solution right, it seems like a reasonable illusion, yeah and but in in in in and but I think also what's going along with. It is like it's not like your your brain isn't working like you're you're, you're you're, not thinking you're, obviously, you're, not thinking clearly like it leads again. This is was my experience of it. Is it's a fog you're in some kind of like you're, confused, there's, confusion? There's shame you feel embarrassed. You feel embarrassed you want to get out of bed, you want to do stuff. You want to be compelled to be social and do all this stuff, but you're not you're, not and like you seem to

people are now it's going on and you're not telling them cause your embarrassed because you you want you like that you want to have some like you know and corrupted and warped psyche. You know you're like these. It invites you to be secret about it. That's one of its first tracks. Is it tells you not to tell anybody in and that deadly within. In that case, deadly was a source of light. Was the What were for you and in general the ways out YAP. So for me, I've got there there, the solutions and again man. For my depressing, is out there. Please don't get mad at me. I'm not doing the thing of like just put on a smile or any of that bullshit, because it doesn't feel like that when, when you, when you're like in that and when you're fighting it, it's brick, it's like you are you're in a asia. I don't know, I'm keep iq. It's stupid gravity analogies, but it's like the gravity has been turned on

when your planet in every single way by so getting out of bed, you know like. By the way, gravity and quantum mechanics one of the most beautiful things about. Our reality with a hell, is each of those things the sole right. This isn't you're, not just talking about helping language is still physicists, pretend they understand. Something were still at the very beginning to understand this mysterious world of ours. There seems to be function. According to these weirdly, simple and yet universally powerful laws which we don't fool yet understand. So please the metaphor, an analogy of gravity, thankfully, fully

I don't know any other way. To put it, then it's like somebody turned the gravitational field of your mattress out, but everything is heavy heavy, your body's heavy! You don't want to get out of bed. You will consider shitting or pissing. The bed cause you're just like who gives a fuck I'll, just lay in my shit and piss you're dying you're like you're you're, you're, you're it it's none of it makes sense. So I and I feel like in rats respect, I'm making what I'd, what I've done a little like. I had more lucidity it will. It was more like a when you're right. You know we wrestling with someone and you're just a oh, you did that's different for you, but her me If I'm wrestling, I'm not thinking about jujitsu to move, survival? Just so it's like that, it is a struggle like it.

I got. You really have to deliberately half fight everything, so you start so you could almost have a conversation with it and then what you do is you start doing the opposite of every? it's telling you to do so. It's telling you lay in bed, so you get out of bed. It's definitely telling you don't fuckin exercise you're going to get fucking exercise, it's not going to do anything Can't I have a heart attack. You really want to go outside. Dont, go fucking exercise in all feel crazy and you won't want to do it. If you wanted to do it, you wouldn't be depressed like how often do you hear like one of the symptoms, a depression. You want to jog, you want to get on a bike. You know you don't hear that that's not a symptom, so you start at least one one solution items I just started doing the opposite of:

whatever the voice telling you do the opposite that and then suddenly back that without the gravitational feel diminishes a little, but it doesn't go all the way away and that's where you can far right back into because you'd feel even slightly better. I go okay, I fixed it no really. I think if you like, in having been through therapy, the best solution would be go to a fuckin therapists. As quickly as you can just sit down with them in Helen. What's going on, I know you're thinking how we're gonna find of therapies. Just do it. Google it go on yelp. All this shit feels impossible. If you're like. I don't want to turn on the computer and do any of this. You just have to mean after you do it. If you're on fire, you do it if you're on fire

It sounds like you now, here's a way to not be on fire she's, this particular fire is it doesn't make you want to run around screaming it just makes you want to fall asleep forever and that, but those little steps I got lucky because it worked it worked and start exercising, I've been on anti depressants before when I was they originally diagnosed with it and that those helping you know I even with the current research coming out about that. You are wrong about our understanding of depression. I do feel like it helped in a certain way like it. Definitely it definitely light made me stop thinking about it stopped the engine.

If the thoughts and but I dunno how much there is placebo, or how much of that I dunno but then also like. I couldn't come anymore. That was the other fucked up thing like you're. You can't have orgasms in which might not sound like a big deal, but do you know when I told my therapist that they actually took me off him, because I think she was realizing that it it started to mend. seeing a little bit but the one I'm talking about now that whatever episode Whatever you call it, I just got lucky we worked, it worked and I started feeling better. Thank god now, if you son from depression out there and you've had a remission of the depression. You know it's, it's really like it's gary to have mental illness because

everyone gets bombed out. I mean that's just normal, like you're going to get bombed out. No, I want to do anything. Sometimes it doesn't mean you have a clinical depression. You might just be bummed out or grieving. You might be any number of things, but when I, when I get really nervous, if some of those symptoms start showing up and At one point I felt like that was happening again and I did in her mind killer, ketamine therapy, which now thou is the damned thing I've ever experienced. Aside from the fact that ketamine is immensely psychedelic, the just remember going back to the hotel after the experience with clinician and

you know, it's like with oppression, is like a headache the starts coming on, but you're like this headache, might last four years and my last for six months it might get worse and worse and worse, and so I went back to the hotel room and it was just con, like I just felt normal. I felt I fell. Grey was like the most workable thing ever so, you know look at the research on ketamine right now, it's like! What's who it's not by bullshit, it's not like. We were sciences. really early good dad out their showing that something like, I think it's sixty percent, I don't know what the percentages, but sixty percent of people with. Deprived and indulgence depression when they get ketamine therapy will experience remission, regardless of whether you trip out or not just tat again,

it's something that they're I dunno. If they know what it is yet I don't care if they do, but that one thing worked and basically you keep fighting until something works. Exactly it's a survival issue and it's a survival issue. I just, I think, because kind of so slow moving. You might even forget its progressive. You are you you could easily just think that you're just a kind of bombed out person. Are you start thinking that these aspects of your psychology or permanent, when they don't have to be what about other people in your life? What advice would you give to people that have loved ones who suffer from depression? What are they to do? Ok now. This is really like, Man, it's really dark. Here's number one! This is what somebody told me when I lost a friend to suicide. You know cause when you lose a friend to suicide. We lose a loved one to suicide. You're going to blame yourself, it's a

I get in the industry in that circa periphery of suicide. There is a circumference, guilty people, you all feel like. Oh, if only I had said this at the right time, if only listen more. If only I had seen that warning sign if only this or that at the interesting and that with other forms of like disease, you know if you loved one, as from cancer say more than likely you're not going to be thinking like. Oh, I should have cured their cancer. You know like you're, it's a tragedy, but at least you're not like, if only I had you still might think, that's part of grief, but I it's not as sticky and many of the other situations here. The gilts couldn't really stay for a long time yup. So you number one: it's we're talking about a poker progressive disease that can lead to death

and if somebody commits suicide they wanted to commit suicide and at least that what I've been told is your you can't stop. It is going to happen. It's gonna happen. There are no magic words, there's nothing, you can do so. You know people who've lost people to suicide. You know what I'm talking about like you know, you've you, you can watch it happen in real time and there's there's nothing you can do, and that being said, you now being responsive to when it seemed like some israeli reaching out for help and knowing that, maybe even though it might, if, especially, if someone who's eye, doesn't talk like this a lot of his arm, and sentences start coming out of their mouth, that, if you weren't really paying attention might not seem like a big deal, but for this person it's kind of a novelist that all of a sudden that's happening now there that's when you can be

a good listener, and you know open up to them and hear what they're saying and may see I share. They ask me for ever system asking for help and even if you like, I don't know what to do. You know at least you can like start checking in on em, you now start like help them under and they are there for them and then off we get in a fair bit, get them to a doctor. Get them too professional you can like chips, see what's going on there. So that and then there's help and even then there might not be hope. Actually you know doctors can't stop it, there's! No, if it's sometimes it's just that, that's the way it goes, but you know I know that, like I'm being sensitive somebody's like iverson hit new operating out to you that normally isn't like that and what's going on, how are you and just listen which in general, The pressure. Not is probably a good thing to do. Yeah too, to teach you to

truly listen, sergei, ok, yeah yeah, because people have you know, there's all things like cries for help man they sometimes they just look like a weird taxed you know. I was there and you don't realize that for the person who said that fuckin tag statement they get about it all morning, they ve been trying to get, therefore get their phone up from the floor. So you do. I think that that I mean, I guess what I don't know. I don't know I've had friends like kill himself, some anna many of them. It wasn't. I sadly it was like I m, know what could have been done there, but there still still guilt in the back

your head for the rest of my life for sure always will be yeah. I mean yeah. But again, what are you going to do you, but even that it's a part of love. That's right! That's right! Yeah! That's right! You could yeah. We, you know we feel guilt. Great part of grief is guilt. You know I like you. We always could have been better people. We always could have been better people. You get into viktor frankl, much yeah, of course, man's search for meaning the invitation to live your life as though been on your deathbed and have been given the chance to go back and not make the same mistakes. I wrote I returned to that idea all the time, meaning it's like, okay, whatever you did before this moment, was too late, but now that you know this is where you can start. This is where you can start and yeah

well, I I think that for a neurotic like me, that's super important because otherwise I'll just get like two lost in the weeds of shit, shitty things I did in the past. Speaking of viktor frankl, you and hitler have the same it's a oh, my god, you really don't research. Why I often go alone famous people. There have a birthday sameness hitler yandah, the dvd, the person that shows up as you your face, just really big. It would have you. You when hitler together just pals next to join our aid does not know. The ebro twentieth is an embarrassing birthday for my four twenty friends out there. It's embarrassing you share birthday with hitler. Loads for twenties also has a humor and a likeness to re its impairs. You ve your boy if spain life it is embarrassing, but if you like weed and you're born on stoner day in and you believe in reincarnation- do

like, when you start connecting the dots there, if there is like a bardo where you get to choose your next life, so you're like a shitty generic and be NBC your ear like he, of course. Of course you would be borne out for them computer geared up or to any man, but isn't it interesting that on that same day, Hitler's also borne her deserve this attention to that and that Hitler's an artist? So it's like. that hippie mindset could could go anywhere. Oh yeah, right, like what yeah you know, and I I like I was just having this conversation with a friend of mine who's, a wonderful skeptic- and we were talking about this- which is the thing where you started. Trading Two of the day you were born these kind of significance and based on maybe people,

are born on that day. Maybe some other things in euros. It's like think of how people by now and the course of human history have been born on April twentieth. I mean how many someone could probably do the math and come up with some number close to it. Now. This is how you know how run hitler is like he's, the one that light thugs up every day the birthday for everybody else, but I think a where I heard the year for twenty as well off. I episodes he's also forty seven point: twenty yeah yeah elite and the hitler bees, even worse, I have looked into centers of owning the day. I think. If anybody is is like, I will obviously there's nothing. You can do do to fix it. Hitler fucked up a lot of things. He fucked up that moustache. He fucked up the name hitler he fucked up for twenty and obviously he caused a horrific

holocaust that, by the way, talk about these reverberations through time that time still experiencing are still experiencing stumpy beloved round fuckin tattoos from that mother fucker. So, but you know, when half you know, People like when half there's a little there like whatever the sort of hitler is euro. He too is creating repose in the lake. The hopefully respond hitler yeah very called fuckin lake and he's in in and yeah celebrate, because very very because, like that, is actually swimming around it.

Yeah. You know who I am. I try not to attract. Think about like that, that hitler thing on my birthday that my dad we're just every birthday you remind me to do. Do you think all of us are capable of evil? Do you think you're one of the swedish people? I know just as a fan. Do you think you are capable of evil? Sure yeah I mean shore. Definitely I think if you don't think that you better you better watch out book is come on. How do you think you're not capable of evil and p s? You are, if you're connected to the supply Jane friend, he heard doing evil you're, paying taxes. You're like yours, supporting the worst things in the world. You know, like diffusion of responsibilities, really curious, that sort this the circumference

of responsibility where it's like bombs are going off somewhere that were paid for in some small part by you, but you some fractional. If you of american, in america. If a drone is flying over a village in afghanistan and drops a bomb and you pay taxes, then you could say you have fractional ownership. over that drop. Your cog in the machine of evil here some sense, you're in and I know what you're I say well yeah, but I have to fucking pay taxes like. I have no choice their sales taxes this or that take that attitude does the same thing: the people on the battlefield when they're sending missiles and other tanks they're thinking the same thing. It's just they're, more directly responsible for what's going on, but in in buddhism, this idea of dependent.

co arising, yet the pinnacle rising, we're all connected we're all part of this matrix are all connected, meaning we share responsibility for the evil in the world. So even if you aren't directly committing evil acts, if you're seeing something in the world and you're thinking, that's evil probably not quite as separated from that. As you like to believe in some tiny infinitesimally way you you're connected, and there is the sons I've gone to experiences over and over that one individual can actually make a gigantic difference in Is it not only is the diffusion responsibility does a kind of a per hour says about well. What can I do yeah sure I understand. But what can I do- and I think I just looking at history.

And also hang out and becoming friends, I was interviewing. People have had a tremendous impact. You are you just one dude yeah yeah you're like a normal person that do not that smart even make a lot of people are like. In some kind of magical way where you have a big head debts flying out everything. Now you you just. Problems in the world like hey, like hey. I think I'm do something about this. Yet you stay focused and dedicated to dedicated for prolonged long period of time and refused to quit refused to listen to people that tell you that this isn't like impossible. Here's how others have failed the app now and then and will do it. That's it that's one person and then you kinda. The thing is when there's one person that keeps pushing forward that way, humans are sticky. They other people's farm around in their wake AL hub you

well I'll help, and then the other people help and then the cool people all gathered together cause they kind of get excited about the way holy shit can actually make a difference in a they form groups and then all of a sudden there's companies and nations that actually make a gigantic difference. Interesting and all starts with one person. Often you know what, if I could push back slightly against that it's never just one person it's like you know. Nobody ever talks about, at least as far as I am aware, you never you're about, like boot, great grandmother you never hear about that every year about that, but if not for that person, no no buddhism You know you neither the people you're talking about their them there, the tip of the iceberg that pops up out of the ocean of history- and you never see

if they're, that all the little things that helped that happen, and and so to me, this is where the real like. How do how do you help what something you can do? Well, you know recognize that First, that you don't really you don't. You may not be aware of how much your impacting people around you. You might think they that you're, not are, you might think, sure, surely not in a way that makes a big difference, but You have no idea these tipping points in that they can lead to the emergence of an einstein gandhi Martin Luther king, we can go on and on a dusty ask year. Whoever- and so I think, that's where for me, it goes back to end of the part of the garden you can touch and then or even deeper than that intention, just like an an I'm. An idiot toy need an idiots intention, which is don't

If you are, I want to say if you can help help, if you can't help, don't hurt simple basic dummy rules so that you can, if possible, refrain from hurting which, might as well be a form of helping and the help doesn't have to be this dramatic thing. This little acts of kindness another they seem to have. May I believe in karma they seem to have this. They can have gigantic ripple effect: in a way that is, I just remember a lot of little acts of kindness. The people have done to me and they they what they do. One. They fill me with joy and hope for the future. They give me facing humanity- yeah, that's somehow theirs,

partially dormant. desire in the arts of collective intelligence to do good in the world. That most of us want to be a good that want to do good onto the world at want. There's a kindness, that's kind of like begging to get out those little acts of kindness. Do just that and there she went away, the love asked in a move. Tears realizing judges. Addressing those little acts of kindness around me just stupid reasons people being really nice as what is weird in that that. That kind combined with an optimism for the future is just it is amazing that can build yes. Yes, it's incredible, and I note your saying it's like you know. We were that we move to this great neighbourhood, and at this point I think three

maybe four of our neighbours. If I made food for us that you shows up with like hand written lists, things they like to do in the area and their phone number. If we need help and it's like holy shit- that's like it might seem like a little act, but it feels like some kind of atomic love bomb. Just went off on your porch when you're. Looking at that, like what the fuck you made me a pie, this is incredible like this is incredible so and also its other act to accept their kindness with its I got a eyes and ass: they can in Boston or san francisco certain big cities. You can think of ok, well, they're, trying to leg. Somehow that's not an act of kindness to some kind of transactional thing to build up

it's like a career move for networking all that kind of stuff, but no, if you just accept afford it, is a pure act of kindness that in Boston is that yeah cause. For me, I go the opposite route cause I'm now, even though there is a part of me that might be a little suspicious or something that where I go to to push that shit back mentally, am I I'm deserve this if they knew what a piece of shit I am you bring me, I will never bring cakes to my neighbours, not to make a cake. I don't wanna make any they have time as we bring you should to my but why did I do that? I should brought. I never do that because we are not careful You can spiral into a vortex of self hate from the gifts you have to yeah. You have to learn how to in the in that circuitry. You have to learn at away. Exactly I of the problem really big yelling. Got on deserve this. I had on I get so much love from people like me

yeah. They love makes cause. Don't know me, that's my brain a little voice like yeah, you not a hit you're, not worthy, you're not worthy of any of this kindness and all this kind of stuff that can be very or you can shut you down. It can be debilitating and also, shut, the person that merely at your talk and it s this that's a dog- says a push them away to yeah. It cuts off this fucking, mystical circuitry. So like the best thing, if that happens to you is like, except it joyfully and just either just that whatever that thing inside of you, whatever that little thing is, you know this is like in that the meditation? I do it's an inferior. Only simple meditation, but when I thought emerges, wouldn't you

arresting your attention on your breath and then, inevitably, you think he'll ass new thoughts and when you catches of doing that, you think thinking and then return your attention to the breath. So I like that today, when part of myself starts. You know having its little neurotic semi seizure, I can discover thinking whatever is just another thought and then eat either ether, eat the banana bread or whatever they gave you what's the most wild psychedelic experience you've ever had in a dream in a vision, does attribute drug related. What's the what's one that jumps to mind, those like holy shit, I'm happy to be alive. Is this life? Okay? Is amazing: yeah the oh yeah, okay, so the one, the pops mine. I I've had a lot of psychedelic experiences, but in this moment the one that paths to mine only because it goes back to what you're talking about

About this sci fi idea, infinite return, the the so I'm burning man and Are you gonna burn me? Mister, I'm not arrive kids right now. I want a beer, they're. My wife was being so cool about it and she knows I live burning, urges I gotta burning man and I was Inigo and then I'm I just I just want to be around my kids as much as I can right now, but have never been to burning man, so I dunno how secret of it is that I mean cause high profile? Folks go? U everyone knows you, I must go there, isn't a pretty, also had a boat. You know that I know is you know, there's a bit call our cars. They make our cars and, like part of the part of the burne, was so beautiful about it is like you can't buy anything there. Man like you, I would I don't.

It has changed. It's been a bit because of the pandemic, but the only thing you could buy was ice and coffee and I think maybe that's change. I heard some whispers that change, but so that means that it's a gifting economy is what they call it in. So people just give you stuff talk about having a struggle with deserve his staff man. What are you going to fucking do when the camp next to you is like every morning making the best, iced coffee that you've ever had in your life and they just are giving it all. Away till it's all gone. What are you gonna? Do it's it's the best ever and then you're giving things to people, and then you you learn stuff, like you weren't. These really interesting Since I got one of the times I went there, gotta visa straube might sound like a big deal, but when you're out

I'm a dust and you're not gonna like the fight hard core, like luxury camps which do exist out there. I know, you've got these like items were my mind, I'm like yeah. These are going to be just for me and my girlfriend my special stash fruit, this or that and then like two days in you're, walking around your camp with the strawberries. They were coveting and everyone's so happy to get like cold strawberries and you, realize, oh, my god, this feel so much better than the way a strawberry days. So you learn something expire

essentially there are, which is an incredible thing. It's an incredible thing: man! Now I'm wishing I'd decided go to burning man. How have you been a few times yeah? I just know like at least people were saying it was elon musk's boat like yeah like this. I think it was like a ye. It's like this massive, it's art cars, and it was this party on this thing you could just anyone can go on. The bow like no one's like there's no guest list. You just go on there. I never saw him there, but that you know everyone's whispering. Elon musk his hair there's a scene proceed as all that kind of talk, as you probably have to respect up. At the same time there it seems, like the kind of people go there at anything. The rules of the outside world as suspended in the sense that the. Crying aggression, the tensions all that seems to dissipate somehow, not all the way.

Not all the way that you know there's a low look it up in oak, is like. There is and there's a lot of attention there between and it's called plug and plays. Like you know, burning man like the history of burning man is fascinating. It has it's roots in the cacophony society. Is what it was card, which is a sort of evolution of something that was. I think it is called the god like the san francisco. Basically, there is like an art movement in francisco and camera. The name of it may be the suicide clobber essentially like they were willing to urban exploration and. Meaning like breaking end like old, abandoned buildings and step a part of this. What this was was.

You would prepare your life as though you were going to kill yourself. You get all your affairs in order, you would get so it's got going. Why are you out of the cancer diagnosis you're like sort of putting yourself into that World of our committee in all my affairs together, is that this is it and then there are some I'm sorry for anyone listening from pushing this, but I think there are some Really cool initiation where they were blindfold you and they would take you into some of these abandoned buildings and you didn't know where you are walking, but they would say like if you take one step to the left, you're gonna die in half off you're going to fall. So please be,

therefore say you're like in the momentum and then blindfold comes off. It's a big awesome party. This evolved into something called the cacophony society. There's a great book called tales of the coveney society for people listening. One of the members of the good company society was the other, a fight, club and self you ve seen fight club like you, could see little idea Is there were in the cacophony society? They are into dada ism, which I don't I know a lot about like I dunno it's a bit: it's a philosophical art, movement and, and then so, basically, what was happening is like they kept burning increasingly large effigies in the

francisco and they will know how to do it and they took it out in the desert and they were basing it on something called a zone trip which is like across this border. The rules of that old society are gone, and so that was the original burning man, which was these lunatics out in the desert long King, like burning pianos out of catapults through the air. Doing why drive by shooting range is like no rules, while magical beautiful insane madness, and then I grew grew and grew and grew until you have burning man as it is today, which is still the most incredible thing:

I mean obviously anytime. You have like a thing. That's been around for awhile you're, going to get that it's not like it used to be it's not as free as it used to be so this or that, but what's fascinating about burning man. Someone pointed this out to me. Look on the ground, no trash, no cigarettes. The ethic of like picking up your shit. There is like so intense, so it's not like the other fazal that you go through it they're just trash everywhere, shit scattered everywhere. It's clean people are picking up their stuff. People are like really being conscious.

It's like not fucking up the playa. So I'm sorry, I don't have any they'll get a burner yapping about burning man. They we won't stop it'll morning, but there's a power there, but there is a power of the culture propagating itself through to the stories that we tell each other and that holds up for burning man that, like it's clear that the culture has stayed strong throughout the years. Yes, so many people. So many really interesting people speak of burning man as like a a sacred place. They go to to to remind themselves about what's important and so interesting and it is as it is. I mean it's like you know. There are all these stories. Like I love guru stories. I have a guru. Neem karoli baba never met him. He was wronged as his guru, at least not in the flesh, but the story of the guru as if you're lucky you meet. This being that

and we're not talking about inner whatever the run of the mill like charlatan out there like I'd, know for sure People are in the world right now who. When you're around them, you, the thing you're talking the affirmation of the potential of humor kennedy, and also just an acceptance of yourself, and you know who cultivate like seeing someone who's cultivated, love, or compassion or whatever. But in this way that is I mean it. You would almost you'd rather me, that being that, like a you have outlined in your backyard, it's like it is that you have found it. Sir. Person, but it's not it's every body and nobody and somehow they like end up conveying to you, ideas that you may have heard a million times before

But somehow within their language itself is a transmission that permanently alters you, and so these people exist. I think you could argue that burning mammy. The total thing is a guru that a pilgrimages evolved to get there. You like it's, not easy to get there and when you get there, it's it's kennedy. She something it's going to show you something! It's going to know what maybe some of us have. It shows you might not be great, but that community around you well like or hold you as you're, like whatever the thing is that the coming out of it? coming out of you and even the simplest activities, the simplest exchange of words

have like just like the with a goose love, a profound impact, somehow he asked of them about their place. Yeah, not imagine that insane synchronicity, like insane secret as he's there, I think, like you know, to get back to the notion of sanctions, is a by product of a harmonised. Yet ip complain The system I see I think synchronicities like? Are there like those kinds of systems are like lightning rods for synchronicity, so called crazy? Not just because your high synchronicities happen that are input that are impossible where you just have to deal with it in in, like you'll, need something, within a few minutes someone's got harry area mentioned, but by the way, burning, exile, psychedelic experience is the strawberries, or was it something else?

What was the moment? They are those magical now as dm tea or whether strawberries No, I was more potent yeah. I was like smoking empty and, like I so like if you are on the midnight gospel. There are these bovine creatures that have like a long neck in atlanta and head so like eyes. I saw one of those things and I in you know I thought it was funny and like ridiculous cause, you hear like all the time ms mckenna stories of the south, transforming machine of sir other. We performed by the magenta god as everyone caesar, and so this is what are you? but the fact that fucking cow the lantern head like that's. Where am I

brain, is adding interacting susan, like I looked. I look away and again this is the empty So when I say look away, do I mean with my eyes shut, I look away our eyes open. I look away, I think I shut, so it sounds weird to say look away, but, however, you want to put it. That's what I did and I look back and it's still there only now. It's you know cause usually in like when you're having those kinds of visions. I go away pretty quickly things like moved

shambled had maybe a few stabs, just like a couch like a cow, and then that was when you know you are the stories you hear about it like going through. Some kind of two were some kind of white tunnel like a waterside made of light at its increasingly familiar. That's that, while this part of it is like, oh, I know this place now like I've seen this in, like you know, on the point bond stickers, but like oh yeah, this is that place you there remember this place and then it was like. I was in some kind of I don't know. A chamber, a technological chamber, some granite supercomputers, some kind of nucleus that was technological, and it was inviting there is an invitation of like comment. I come deeper into come deeper and Hannah. You can talk to whatever it is over there. You don't talk, but there's a communicate.

In an I communicated for my friends. I know I love my friends. I guess I had some since in that moment that it would mean complete, obliteration or who knows why and the response that it gave back was you can always go back there and that's when I open my eyes and back totally, you know, and ever since then that that's meter me to my my thinking, reincarnation, the idea that you die and you start as a baby and then live your life again. It goes right now? What we are talking about. You know that they may be data. You know that the shit I saw a nitrogen oxide and feel done that my epiphanes role, It had drugs, but not all of them are a lot of them by this notion of like how is it that were.

Imprinting into the medium of time space. Every thing we do, and that is a permanent imprint of frame that upon death can be accessed. In the same way, we can pull up. Pictures on our phone or computers and not only access but experienced as though, in other words you could just jump in You still have your memories. It's gonna give you a the illusion of having been a kid and got into that frame. But now you just decided to go back. There nostalgia whatever. Whatever and yeah, I can jump around freely in space and time yeah yeah. You can go in and out of time space, but when you, the problem is when you go into time space it's time, so it's gonna feel sticky. It's gonna feel like you, ve, been here forever cause you ve dropped,

back onto the track that nietzsche's talking about- and I guess one of the qualities of dropping into that frame- is that you forget you're halal, higher dimensional identity. What happened to the cow with the lantern? What was that goodbye? He writes me. Letters never again, never never saw it again, but I put it in. We put it in the midnight gospel. You know I like the penalty was like it's such a genius and he was a drew it for me and managed ended up as a part of the shell. By the way. I have to admit that the big fellow you Seven was the gospel. I've been waiting, its assassins, duty, stupid things were written. You talk to every two years ago, with do a joke about it. I've been waiting to do too to watch. You will like a special person and mushrooms. How is minimal

to do. I don't know any. Of course you don't have to bear motions to graduate, but for some I put it in my head and this is something else: what to do with. Somebody else are experiencing getten wire gauze Usually, may I watched a bunch of just a little bit here and there, but it's just visually such an interesting experience, combined with everything else. Obviously, the ideas, the voice, the voices and so on, but just visually. It's like it's like a super psychedelic version of rick and morty, or something like that. I got you know the farther out while they're out there so yet, and yet there that that's pendleton, you know these are these people I mean like. I was part of that. In the sense that, like Pendleton gave ever like one of the reasons he's like such a genius and great at making staff is like he's like here, really does a good job of dislike d.

advertising potential. Like I argue that can appear. You know someone has to be like drive in the bus and that was pendleton, but he lets he's so inclusive. There's a rope punk rock thing that is doing, which is like he'll, take everything in a kind of mixes its way into the show up, One of the things you know and in truth and animation, making it really strict with light drawing Characters and like the like each training, create continuity. In the way the character looks like an aching. It really brute for animator, brutally precise, like it has to be precise it, but he figured out that if you just sort of it's not like like clancy, had to look like clancy did all show, but if you allow the various people animated at a sort of have their own spent on it, then suddenly it creates

our very psychedelic you'd, shovel more psychedelic because it looks more organic and also the amount of time. I know the amount of time that goes into making. Digital are look like. That is it's insane the amount of work in carping that staff. Crazy. It's crazy generally, the time it takes even just like a painting when you are really enjoy watching, like art, is due time lapse here s, how much effort just into a single image goes into it. You know hours and hours and hours that those days sometimes weeks and months and the EU get this your work, but they they they lose themselves in. The craftsmanship of it, the rhythm of it and like because our focus on the suit.

In my robotics earlier, like on the little details like they're, never look or that most of the time isn't spent looking at the big picture of the final result is look at the little details so on and there, but there are nevertheless able to somehow constantly channel the big picture. The final result, my god, yes there is, that day ever animators its light? Dear god, the it's the craziest thing when you watch it when you see what at what it looks like an how much time goes into How then they have to be it like? No matter what you're gonna have to cut staff man you're cutting like a few seconds of animation that was someone's like month. Maybe you know like they, then they understand, but still it's like woe its brutal and so do they. They have like this zen outlook on it, which is really cool

and they watch by gas as other cool thing, when you realize I go there listening to park ass, like that's, really cool too, to see that aspect of it too, but yeah man- I you know your voices in the ears of a lot of interesting people the stores do not hello, interesting personality, animators eating delicious food in the cafeteria, I'm on your side, he's against you, I'm with you yeah give you have a beard. Therefore you must be wise. Do you have advice for young people high school college, about how to carve their path through life or have a life, a career that is successful, that they can be proud of or life they can be proud of man see this is what kind of this is? What sucks about my life is that it's been very random and very spontaneous, so unfortunately I don't

get that thing where I could be like all here's what I did it, because it's like I'm a guy. I inherited twelve thousand dollars from my grandmother. Here's what you do! Kids, you near at twelve thousand dollars when your grandmother dies, and then you need to be done enough to think that that twelve there, dollars is gonna help. You live in a way for a year. So then, what you do is you, move to allay with twelve thousand dollars, and you find it a shitty play, that you were a man. You use that money to buy acid and synthesizing. You run out of money, and then you didn't. You have to get a job incident because they go, be funded work at a comedy glove. You get a job at a comedy store and then you know that's how I have for me. None there was any. I know what it was. Never the confidence to be like I'm be a stand up,

media in no way. I just gotta be cool the work in that bill for the building, look cool and so, but then like cause like you work at the comedy store you get stage time. It's there. It's the reason. Yours you work. There is at least in those because it's not like they're paying like a shit tunnel, money, veto, answer, phones at a common club and so you know I started going on stage and then, like I just got lucky, because rogan saw me have like a very rare good sat. I didn't Well was in the room or out of bombed you now and then like, because he thought I was found I mean talking to me are taking on the role of them and then you know I know man I think- are was there an element to there's a beautiful weirdness to you as a human being that was there like a pressure to conform ever to hide yourself from the world or- or

the dead, the twelve thousand dollars in the ass. I give you the confidence you needed to beer surfing No, I dont like I still I'm now. I think you sure there's that price and, like you know, whenever you're you're beginning to really do french, eight from your parents, but then you go back to hang out with your parents, yo yo. You can feel that it's not like the even want you to conform, but you'll, just you slip into that whatever that was. I remember that when I go back and like visit them and staff and shirley conformity. Air pressured alike, not be individual or whatever, it's it's everywhere, man, you think you major purse proud. He. Yeah nah nah nah. Well, I think that on women died. I felt successful in the sense that I was able to.

Support my I was? I was making money from doing stand up. I didn't need help. I was like, as I was, supporting myself with art and doing good. What I thought was great, then so, and I think she like her because she had witnessed me literally failing I mean, which is by the way, I think part of you want to be an artist or successful you're. You I have to fail like there. If, if ever, there was a guaranteed rout from sucking to not sacking or from like the neophyte phase of whatever the art form is and some intermediary phase I think, a lot more people do it, but there really is no guarantees and an especial stanhope comedy. It's like you'd have to be a maniac to want her to think that that's gonna work out for you after it, so you you're gonna get.

There are obviously exceptions, but for me it was a long slog. You know, and that's scary firma so but That being said, when she was dying like she did recognize that I was like not slogging any more and, as she did say, ah, she said you did it and that's cool, but in rut you know I would love her to see me now like now be way cooler. Maybe she does I she's listening to cheer parkers elsewhere in the other, and then the barred out however, the long that lasts reconfiguring the whole process to start again use a father. Now. How did that change you? That's the big change man. That's the thing you made. You made a few

a logical. He reproduce the I made that biological entities of him. Thank. You came in my wife, let's face it like. I would like to say I made but the womb wiped them up, but it is the yeah it's the best. It's never experienced anything like it before it is the. As far as I'm concerned, the greatest thing that has ever happened to me and that's why I was able to answer nietzsche question with like polly s. Thought guess that's great. I get to be around my kids again I'll always be around. My kids always be around my children. That's incredible! That's the joy so like so, for me, the part of myself that used to torture myself more specific, like around. Like my mom dying feeling like I wasn't there enough for her wishing that I had spent more time with her wishing I'd spent more time. My dad. Wishing that, like the you know, look,

back at like how like I was just so desperately trying to evade the fact that she was dying, and through and in that evasion successfully like distance myself from her like, In ways that I really wish I had- and I'm just saying I could like It'S- one american rats, it's like a bigger grab, little regrets, but that's a big one, and so when you have kids, you look back at every thing you did and you think, like fuck, if I had gone left that point instead of right, if I had eaten, who knows what? If I'd, eaten like a turkey sandwich when my balls were creating the

there was going to make. My kids would have a different kid with this being not exist in my life, like you start looking everything and you realize like thank god, thank god for every single thing that happened to me, because it all lead up to this end. For me, that is the that's the it's like a freeze you and that it liberates you, because you realize, like oh wow, his clumsy and salvation and and and at times rotten if I've as I've been in my life, that did not impede the universe at all from allowing this, these two beautiful being there exist in the world, so we all of it enabled all of it, like a concert perfectly led up to that little beautiful moment,

Is their ways you like to be about her father, the oh yeah for sure absolutely I've, there's a there's, an actual I read something in a book is called good enough. The mantra for apparent good enough, because when you are in the presence of something you love more than you ever experienced, love. You you, you want to be perfect, like you want to be, I can't I gotta work man, I gotta go on the road. I've got at work, I support the family, so that means I have to work like. I work You know you know what it's like having a buyer gas, you fuckin work man and you know it full time job, because our united stand. It. To you and all the other stuff. So I feel so sometimes I feel I am. I once the more time with them like a should, be spending more time with them, but then also,

create, I went to work, I why whites being made the provider so that something like I feel guilty. You know right now struggling heard about that correctly and mean- wild tine just marches on scows. It goes, and all of this will be forgotten, but you and I both for gun in time. That's what I say to them. Every time. I bet we we will be lost in the sands of time. You know that I bet you know this poem. You know that poem Ozymandias death. Can I read you a pa? Oh okay, let's, let's end the conversation, the poem, I love it. It's by.

Pierce buys shelly, probably mispronouncing the name, but I know you re way to pronounce it ain't. No, thank you. I'm Ozzy mandy is, I met a traveler from an antique land. He said to vast and tranquil legs of stones, and in the desert near them on the sand have sunk, a shattered visage lies whose frown and wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command, tell that it's sculptor. Well, those Passions read which yet survive stamped on these lifeless. Things the hand that mocked them and the heart that fed and on the pedestal, these words appear. My name is Ozymandias king of kings. Look on my works. Ye mighty and despair. Nothing beside remains around the decay of that colossal wreck. Listen, bear the low

and level san stretch. Far away all gone the king looked out. My work see mighty and despair and despair. Even though will be forgotten in the sands time duncan, I'm just so glad the existing put so much love into the world over the past many years it I'll get in chess enjoy. By being your fan and I'd eyes. Thank you so much Continuing that and for sharing a bit of love with me today. Can we be friends must be friends in real time in the real world and greedy space, nothing, Israel, but yes, in this particular slice.

The multi dimensional one will of it. It will be an honour and a pleasure. Thank you for having me on your share, love, you doc. I love you. Thank you act, thankful. Listening to this conversation duncan trestle, the sports is by gas. We stick our sponsors in the description and now let me leave you some words from duck untrussing himself. You are essentially just the cloud of atoms that will eventually be air sliced by time. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.