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welcome to love it or leave it out of the closet into the streets. I'm coming, it's been a long remain after china do worse its nose curving that amazing song was by stories with muslim. Besides, I've been incredible if you have an out of the car

that's into the street song. Please email to us at leave it at crooked dont come on the show. This week, new yorker writers, G, Attila tino and ronan pharaoh, tough booking joined to talk about there ni spears, conservative ship story and some of the members of the Edith cas pop I approve they know their history. First She is a comedian actress and young turks commenter. Please welcome ida rodriguez ida. Thank you for being here and for having me. I appreciate it. Let's get into it. What a week Jimmy and Rosalind Carter celebrated. There are seventy fifth wedding anniversary this year, the longest marriage and presidential history upon reaching the milestone. The couple announced that are going to try to open things up their actual takes them act. explains why, the last time, all the ex president first ladies we're, together rosalind, kept trying to get the bushes and the obama's to throw their keys in a ball. I've been fucking, this peanut

farmer for seventy five years now, which one are you war criminals is gonna eat. My ass said rosalind garter, a bad joke. I want you to know something I want. You know something. I wrote that I'm really sorry and I do like it and I'm not really creating ironic distance. I'm happy with it but I am also sorry. You're attacks were not part is then they were. Do you have a more evenly? You called them out work fountain of that so ninety I would like this workroom. You have the because that will. First of all, let us be clear. I didn't say that that's in the voice of reason, carter. Famously Jimmy carter, didn't drop a bomb didn't didn't use force. So I think it's in her point of view. but it's also a kind of alluring for her in the carriage the joke she's like hey would have,

George w Bush, who I think, has a war criminal, engage in some sexual activity with me. That's that's alluring to me, rosalind carter of core after seventy five years of sex with Jimmy carter, the only man, I've ever kissed or fought per rosalind carter's, previous interviews, where she did not say thought she said kissed, but I drew my own conclusion: yes, because they have children because they have children. She's had enough of that peaceful dick. He needs that argument, but she me some drama in our lives and you know especially where'd? You boy and obama. Bogart daddy is youth. I just picture you arousing cartridges whispering in georgia. We bushes ears, like lie to me piece of shit. It is my view that it is interesting that this democratic couple laughing Seventy five years, let these modern day republicans,

the way they talk about Democrats like there are selling their ass on biscayne boulevard in miami. Seventy five years you gotta get married real young, any gotta be real old to get to seventy five years. Yet and you gotta be hopeless that you know but the grass is never gonna be greener. A year like you know, I forget, mri it of the wheels parlour I believe Jimmy Carter gave an inch where he apologize. We're violating the commandment coveting. They need wife like that's as far as he was willing to go, and he was sorry than he coveted and he regretted it. What a good person, I'm very sorry, that just as binding, believe it and believe it Rudy giuliani was suspended from practising law in Washington DC, which sucks, because has he gonna to get better, it is in practice so stupid, so stupid

I have rudy giuliani fatigue. Heard his name enough sorted several of his wives You know it's funny. Maybe he can get in to actually member the where they will, as they ended up in front of the garage room. I'm shot war is a would ever yeah yeah he's really too, in a tumble I dont think the the giuliani story ends. Well, I don't think it gets better from here. Wait a minute. The hare die leagues, He parted in public life times multiple. Far too, do you think the rotating giuliani story continues. I thought it ended. I do think we're at the part of the movie, where there's words on the screen after the final seen? That's like you know, rudy giuliani later was found in a condo building in

lauderdale surrounded by three hundred dollars, several vials of math and led her to the editor. I don't know, but I agree that the movies over I agree that the movies ever state officials have set the date for the recall action facing californian governor gavin newsome september, fourteenth recalls expected to come. taxpayers two hundred and seventy six million dollars, which is the worst way California, has spent there money since that god forsaken loan ranger movie with johnny depp this next one I do now Amerika had built be returned home this week after three years in prison, following the pennsylvania supreme court's ruling, that a non prosecution agreement with the previous prosecutor should have prevent in from ever actually standing trial. There are, words that he's plotting a comedy comeback. I just again I'm going to before this. Is this now this one's bad, but here's the thing that we have great writers Jokes for the show, and we have a system, and we have this boy.

Doc with all the pictures and there's one everybody likes: they bold it. now, and they say this is a good one, we're all on board for this. One this one was bold, it ok and out of respect for them. You're gonna say miss great team of people who come together to make this park. I'm gonna say this part building he's working on a new our, but the next day only remember the first ten minutes I was thinking about bill cosby the other day and I was like cuz. This is polarized, so many people like I was online and I didn't realize how many people were fighting over this current bouquet play story. I didn't know that many people were supporting. Him This all fighting that I was looking through the comments to see if anybody nation equal within the comments, because your cosby did

whole being about the way black people name their children, and I was like all these people defending him now on. My do you remember him, employ his respectability, politics and shading all black people, for name in their children, the names that they were naming them. So I was for their names that were on them is not the name I wanted to see who is depending oh yeah. Remember one arm hannibal bird, help set off a collective knowledge men of what bill, because we had done. It would already been kind of publicly known about what he had done, because he was walking the respectability politics and that's what set it off anyway? Well, now he's just home. Go in the pool in eagles, with felicia shut. On Wednesday. Egyptian authorities officially released the ever given the ship that block the suez canal from the canals great bitter, Where was held due to a financial dispute, the bitch is back

which is great as my airports or stuck on there. As we reserve gimme, those airports sit down, they ever given was never is back is delayed knows, but he thought so many people are not paying attention to what going on. So I can imagine how many people will hear this. So can be like me. Why? Why? What happened But what are they talking about dinner, wednesday disgrace. Former president donald trump file, the class action lawsuit against google, twitter, facebook and their sea yos. frivolous suit is broadly about censorship, and one of them claims face is a state actor that should be constrained by the first amendment facebook, for comment said: how did they get this crazy idea? So much traction like: where does this ridiculous stuff come from? How does a spread? You know

where people getting these ideas so stupid, Bela's q and it's ok, the I feel exact verses from his like alien his predator in that its way way more boring men than you think it's gonna be that's. You think it's gonna be asked to provide Let us remember that these have those celebrity wars. I don't wanna, see donald trump and a debate. I want to see him in a physical fight. Our see him slapped his hands cause. I know he can't buy legs exactly I want to say, fight like, and I can't that's how I think. That's how I feel because our downloads maguire. I finally got now when he's not tripping over that one bomb leg that he has. No, I would love to see him as get into a physical fight. I'm advocating for the fights right now. People are mad with me cuz. They said I'm advocating for violence and I'm like in an arena for pay per view. People can make some money

nine, the mega people live, I the people who read on the other. You go back and forth prettier earlier route for real, the one who built the terrible system that allowed misinformation to spread around the world or the one who saw that happening. It was like. I know what to do I'll use it. So I don't know. Yeah hold my so listen. this saw a bumper sticker. On the freeway on the ten coming back into early a stage from twenty twenty four make votes counts again brought to buy, tromp, fox news and mark Zuckerberg. That's that's what they built. Thank you, sir. Much what a wonderful community facebook s they got on people running for school board all over the country. That's terrific! you for creating a platform for this kind of info she has been great disease study after study. That shows once facebook is in a place that place echo arises becomes,

are prone to right wing fanaticism. Terrific great products grad stall. The democrats who work there you ve done it rate job convincing yourself that it's a reasonable place to be- I think, that's terrific. I love you. I think it's just fuckin terrific, unbelievable well, yeah they're great titles, and they pay a lot on them. I get it. I get it. you want to be the chief content. Digital vice president for global affairs. How cool meanwhile it? Israeli study found that pfizer's vaccine was only sixty four percent of effective against the infection from the delta variant. It's important. Another study found a vaccine was ninety four percent effective at preventing severe illness and hospitalization, and some experts, get that israeli study might be an outlier, but nobody says that when they text the tweet, that's just the headline

and the headline is just the bad news: did you get a lot of texts from people? My phone tons of everybody was texting. This sixty four percent number from the Israel study. Did you have that yeah cause? I got five there yet. So I got a lot of the messages, I don't know if you have these experts in your circled, the experts on vaccines, but I got quite a few that I know you know in addition to me, being checked for my location, which you can pull up on, Google, any google. I have also people wanting my dna with. I don't know why they will want my view, and I think that, as I am, I I commend anyone who we want my dna because they are really aiming. You know to master the studies on mediocrity. Oh, come on you I like that. I put it down your own dna. You got great dna theirs, they appreciate you, but I'm like. Why would they want my dna? There are motherfuckers out here who are working on the cure for

sir, that actually came up with these vaccines and there are people who really think that day you're back see that bill gates once they're back these. So I had to get out of those text messages. I think it's amazing to me the five g, the men to them the secret plot to get your dna attic there is some to us, x to what may conspiracy theories like so appealing to people. One is like that there is some group of people that actually know what the fuck they're doing somewhere, like that's a fantasy like there's a guy. You know that the area. Fifty one thing like deep underground, there's a super sophisticated place where somebody actually know that is that all randomness that weren't control, but the other did that nobody gets enough. Credit is like part of conspiracy theories it like that any paying attention acknowledges a fuck about you, don't give a fuck about you. There to make you magnetized they to know where you are and all times. No one cares where you are. No one gives a fuck

you drive your fucking enormous pickup truck that does no work. Rodents yorick serve in town, but nobody gives a fuck yeah. They really do you not that big of a threat to capitalism to be on the list you deciding that you're, not eating fries, but mcdonald's. Any more is not going to make a dent in the capitalism monster. That runs this country and I think it's funny that people think that they are that import. That's what the internet and what is your route every day. you think, is so important. Like hey. We got our eyes on this matter, a guy from outside cleveland, he did up and go to work, and then he did stop by the supermarkets it go home again? Will you back to morrow to see if there's any diversion so far, nothing now seems like right now he's either. I wait a second wait, a second. He is either

It's a buffalo, wild wings. Sorry nevermind, nevermind, everybody its above allowing sec. Yes, yes, the one on job wrote gap at the one. It's not even the other one, not the one, that's further, I even other diseases busy. I know now one right by us. What do you mean? The have? A era Meanwhile, this is what is on fox news right now, where the big story spent with this was two years is covered. Eighteen, the origin is the top story, but the folk of this administration on vaccination is mind boggling, how dear These people talk about the solution to the problem. We want to talk about the problem of the problem, exclude civilly so far, news, Bernie ms information about vaccination, is how you end up with a new yale study that found at the? U s: vaccine roll out, prevent two hundred and seventy nine thousand debts and one point two: five million hospitalizations. a new washington post, pull down that forty?

Ten percent of Republicans said they likely won't get vaccinated, fox news, we radicalized our audience to in elections and now they're so rapidly anti science and bigoted that they would rather die than trust a doktor with an italian name that sort of where did the rat FAO? I don't trust it death neck. No, thank you. well, you know, did you get those conspiracies about bachelor party? Is him in this he's the hour and on a job. Yet look here was vouches plan to become fabulously wealthy step. One spent forty years working for the government to us abolish trust, then only then, once the pandemic comes, which vainly will happen after that period of time. That's when the big bucks roland. That's when found she takes his that's when found she gets his beak. What era

but you know it's funny bed and had them much bitch, all against the lady who actually lie to them. What was the other doctors name, burke's, burke's barks sober that their lie, bergs back there and made basis, while prob ly she made basis, while coca belie no problem What we have learned from this pandemic is people would rather literally die then, admit someone who's politics, they don't like has a point. It would rather die yeah. They, The literal literally die, I'm in Today, with just the punchline of a joke, I'm not doing that beginning, I'm just going to say the punchline. The set up as it were, are you ready ready more like bill or Melinda gates foundation. we need to set up the actually they need. I felt pretty good about the aid they need. It now

and then I thought about like five different set of in my mind, and I would like thank you, cancel don't get, can delegate cancel they're gonna, continue that what they are going to continue to comment that I don't know something happens to two years to figure it out and if not, though, though, their separate ways and it'll be back to being an auto Collop it'll be just bill. Gates's foundation, the bill and second wife gates foundation is what it will be. I hate it here. and on that note, I had a rough rodriguez. Thank you so much for being here that was so much fun. I really appreciate it now. Thank you for having me, but we come back to your talent, china, ronan pharaoh. They ve asked the big question: does this conservator ship work bitch,

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I'm trying to get back to vaccination is the most effective way to help prevent covert nineteen I get back to the good times find out. To get your covert. Nineteen vaccine, near you, add vaccines, doc of that's v c c, I an e s, dot, gov. Our back joining us today to new yorker writers and new york times best selling authors, who just public a bombshell, investigative piece about britney spears, conservative, ship nightmare g, talent, you and ronan pharaoh. Thank you both for being here, you ve been having added to be her. You had to pull a lot of strings to get me, I'm all right. Yeah, we read your weird huh you're in the hallway, I'm in here. Thank you for your Jia. Thank you for being here, for this am excited to be here. It's there's a serious topic, obviously, but I've never interviewed ronan and someone else it is. I got, yearn extremely odd plates that being an inside of this dynamic. Let me just vibrate in so Bernice

lawyer, appointed by the court's annual income. The third filed a motion to resign as her attorney in her testing Brittany setting m has been scared for me to come forward, and it sounds like she as she describes it. I didn't know her basic rights. What do you make of incomes role in this conservator ship as an advocate for brittany spears she called into this hearing- and the lawyers representing the conservative ship, immediately tried to suggest that the rules should be clear weird if sensitive topics arose that the transcripts should be sealed and she said no, I want to be heard and then ass. She got to talking. She really suggested some allegations about the way in a misrepresented, her that are seriously problem, attic for any attorney, as an attorney myself. Never want to hear say I was not.

advised of my basic right to get out of this situation or avenues to terminate it so we ve seen in the weeks around his departure sources familiar with his thinking air, quoting that implying that He is quite mad about this that easier defiant in suggesting that he did advise her in the ways that he needed to You know a gene I found when we dug into the transcripts over the years is it seems like there was a situation where in was chummy at times with the judge on this case. Where there were conversations were in fact two times they joked about not telling spears things seen others in exchange that the time first reported a while back where Ginning- am talk about not telling brittany that she can get married if she wants

oh, you do so see a pattern that seems to suggest that spears is take on this has something to it, and I think that that would be alarming. You any lawyer and prompt anywhere to want to get the hell out of dodge there's one piece of it, which is just. Was this lawyer doing an adequate job of representing britney spears, or did you have other kinds? entanglements and then there's this larger question about the rights of a person in a concert or a ship, even when those rights are being represented faithfully. One thing you say in the piece is britney could have been found, holding an axe and severed head saying I did it and she would still have had the right to an attorney, but under a guardianship, Have the same rights as an ax murderer is also strange to me that this is a court appointed attorney because she's, a wealthy person vision me able to afford her own attorney right key juggle a bit about the rights that people under conservator ship don't have. This is the only I think, We corner in the legal system or you can have a quarter. when the council that you then will pay the max

for salmon m has been five hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year, which is more than britney spears, is often claimed as her living expenses, and this strikes It's extremely unusual. It doesn't make sense to people when they hear about it right that the only situations in which the court appoints council for you, as if you're unable to Brittany, is obviously someone who's been able to, and not just that. Somebody who, from the beginning you know, assuming I'm seems to have met. Brittany may be two days after the court ordered conservator ship had been placed upon her that her right. to have a day. Notification period had been waved. It seems like his representation of her, was so erratic. But she can we talk to so many people who said that for the next year and a half she was essentially non stop trying to get another lawyer and there three lawyers. They came into the picture, all of whom were effectively thrown out

on the basis of britney spears has been found to be incapacitated, and thus she does not have the capacity to hire you as the lawyer, and so it's this unreachable catch. Twenty two when you're in then this is something that I've been bringing up is that the kind of conservative ship that brings under probate conservator ship? It's not even for people who are having mental health crises in California. That's a different kind of conservative ship called the LP s conservator ship and the Conservative ship is very specifically for people who will not get better for whom that a servant, absolute certainty, whether by Did your by sort of terminal condition or something like that, but there are plenty of people with disabilities who have been placed in the kind of position that Britain is in the law. That gave us that acts murderer quote famously broke up, one of the high profile, conservator ship cases in the country. Before this, a woman named jenny hatch, you has down's syndrome and was placed under conservator ship after an accident. But anyway, many people with disabilities have found themselves in this position where form he deemed incapacitated. They lose any

avenue to prove or use their capacity? ah there's something so strange about the kind of push back you hear from whether its anyone representing their concerns, shipper or from this attorney or from Larry rudolf the manager who resigned today. This idea that, like there are these very kind specific arguments made about the specific set of facts, but then you stepped back and we hold on a second. Is an international pop star perform meaning regulate. That is high level work that somebody using a great many faculties every single day, performing going out on stage meeting fans. Do all of these kinds of high functioning activities, and yet she is denied the basic rights to kind of control. Her own destiny She said in her own testimony, you know denied or reproductive rights denied any kind of ability to choose to have a family in looking at this consider ship issued. Did you find any examples anywhere of some,

under a conservative ship having this level of kind of employment of ike ongoing kind of career activity. Beware ever the experts we talked. You definitely founded unusual in brittany, spears tests, the outer limits of the kinds of people to whom this extremely restrictive type of conservative ship it points out should be applied so we are in some respects in kind of untested territory. You know we have seen after article rudolf step down now Ingham step down in m, filed paperwork requesting that a new quarter pointed council be put in place, and so it sort of any gas, because this is such an idiosyncratic case how he's gonna play out at this point and whether britney spears will be allowed any autonomy, Finally, choosing her own attorney, for instance, or

either the weight of the schemes were behind the scenes diagnoses. That defenders of the conservative ship invariably point too will continue to prevent her from doing that, yet one thing that I guess: bessemer trust which was overseeing the finances on behalf, consider ship. They are claiming a. We are withdrawing we're resigning because we were under the impression that this was voluntary. Those were the arguments made to us but it does seem like all of these people like her. So stir is going on instagram saying if she won. they go to mars or end the conservative ship. That's fine by me. It's very like I love all people, whether their black white or blue. I see this debate unfolding in it's a little bit like we're in, the logic of this conservator ship absolutely still write like what the fuck are we talking about right. This is a a performer

HU as a ongoing career, she gets to decide how that money is spent. We have the right to blow our money. However, we want. We have the right to sleep with male models who may be want a career whatever. It is frank whatever their claiming like they're just seems to be dislike denial of reality even now. The way in which this structure, which is so sort of like all, encompassing we maddening the way that the Natural paradigms surrounding britney spears has gotten grafted almost exactly onto its framework, about How do we think you should live? You know what do we want out of you? What we want from you is for you to be blocked. and and performing and hot, and constantly making money and smiling at the camera and doing everything that the public wants from you and continuing to make money and being an amazing mother and never making a mistake great the way in which these cultural expectations that have shaped in constructed.

flattened and taken over her life from the second. She got famous the way that her life has always been governed by what other people thought was in her best interests and what they wanted from her and the way that that has got completely conflated with something that you know: people we talked you says it happens in servitor ships in real life. If, as you were saying, we dont operate under the framework of our choices be in our best interests. We have the right to me bad decisions than those bad decisions often become foundational to any good ones we make in the future right. We. We only learn how to make good decisions by fucking up in the past. We don't learn anything unless we are able to write and brittany has always starting culturally and now, through this legal framework, bound by what other people think is in her best interest, and we have seen how corrosive that idea is. Starting from you know the way that was did onto a seventeen year old that you have to be hot, but also virginal, but also you no time.

Naturally perfect in your body. To all of these things, the way that these exports, patients have arguably never actually served her human interests rate and only ever serve profit for other people, mainly men around her is one of the darkest and sadness its of this story. The jenny hatch case that I brought up this is the woman with intellectual disability, with down syndrome, hoo hoo, still able to live on our own and have a job? And you know it's we're not talking about sort of mental issues. Are addiction issues this type of conservator ship. It invokes questions of capacity that Brittany spears has clearly proved herself to me. Well, right. What we then talk about is these cultural? Expecting and how should have Brittany spears be having had deep conversations with people who defend the conservator ship. There is this fact, your question on which the conversation turns the g. I just alluded to. There the insinuations without outright statements that the checking of a box

that said, dementia in early paperwork has gone to it or you know, other diagnoses that I won't get into yours, I don't wanna repeats berries. Information are raised. That implies and some serious degenerative condition, the spectre, she may hurt herself in one way or another if released is raised, but I think then you get to appointing those conversations again, even with the most defenders and executive powers. This situation and you you raised philosophical question of in our society. Do we rob people of their rights so extensively to prevent is outcomes and when challenged, it's really interesting to hear the people who kind of have been perpetually This structure for years and living in a space where the circle of a dozen or so people have all bought into the argument that it's a good thing to some extent confront idea that maybe actually the fundamental framework within which that does,

was made, should be question more I think it's very hard. Once you raise the philosophical question to go back to believing that this degree of restrictive could possibly be next Harry. But if someone does not have the capacity to decide to buy a car, they don't have the capacity to decide to perform in front of thousands of people The argument that gets made Jonathan is that she is. Longer that person who was performing in front of thousands of people I have heard it said again. This is not a view that I'm endorsing this is the argument that gets trotted out by those defending the situation that she would incapable of the things that she did on tour or in vegas in the present day. Spears herself alluded to the fact that she is perhaps in worse mental health condition now than she was there near. She talked about being medicated against her will being given

if I am being given mood altering drugs that can have a cumulative effect that, if not applied correctly can be adverse to someone's mental health I'm so There are real questions about the mental health condition she's in now, and nevertheless, regardless of where that fact your question lands there. Ground to criticise the philosophy and the law behind this structure. one of the things that is most conceptually maddening about the conservators structures that many people in in disability rights have spoken about. Is that being officially deemed incapacitated? It has it inherently self perpetuating polity right if I was essentially deemed unworthy of making any mistakes in the future after having made a series of mistakes in the past that

do things to my own sense of capacity and my own internal ability to you know if you are robbed of avenues to use your capacity and formally separated from it, then you do lose access to that capacity. I think that's really good point. There was an experiment in psychology ago, where I believe there were students or maybe graduate students as part of this experiment. They pay and to have some form of mental illness, and they fully manifested there. They did a performance of having mental illness to get committed. In some way, but that they were committed. They did nothing to her, that mental illness anymore, but several of them, could not get out is all of the activities they did while they were considered mentally ill were attributed to mental illness when they would take notes for in their journal just to keep of what was going on while they were being committed, it was called like you know, writing behaviour. They were manifesting writing behaviour when they know it Writing to me in the brittany testing, itself. She says

want changes going forward. I deserve changes and it struck me as such. An incredible understatement. Ray. She describes horrific abuse. She describes being denied her reproductive freedom. She describes being basically enslaved by this conservator ship and by her father, and she still to kind of plead her case, like not record asking just how serious these allegations are, and just how obvious it is that you would just have changed hm you know in two thousand and seventeen you wrote something after the wine seen story was broken about how predators, entangle and contaminate the best qualities. People half right- and I wish they d- want to compare the kinds of abuse and men in terms of how britney spears herself has dealt with both the massage any of the press and media and the false narratives that you both described so eloquent than the article, the difference between what was actually going on when she saved your head was actually going on when the police came versus. How was reported plus our father has treated her right.

It seems like so much of this is that the family believed that britney spears trusted people she shouldn't and that that was some deep sent. Some horrible things need to be protected that that are being kind mean. Trusting was something wrong with her that she had to be stopped from experiencing. Did you find in investigating this story? that in some sense that part of why this is on so long is that the massage any from the press and from her own family, directed at her, had worked that she had come. Kind of accept this diagnosis of of what was wrong with her. Why remember? Writing that about them, insane story that you know when someone takes advantage of you or abuses you at the the worst thing about it. As you said, as it entangles all the good things about you, if you're really sweet, then it's your fault for being sweet to them. If you are tough, then it's your fault for coming off, so tough that they thought you could take it or something. There are things that we have heard about britney spears from every I I would say this has been an absolute from everyone. We've ever talked to about her everyone says she is deeply deep,

deeply hardworking. You know that she has done unparalleled work ethic and that's it genuinely sweet and kind and the way those two things have been used against her in this structure. You heard in the testimony and in something that we heard you no going back to people who were around her since she was sixteen in we. She became such a valuable asset that we'd, be letting so many people down to take a break even for a second. It was not even allowable starting at the very beginning that she has taken genuine pleasure and artistry in performing, but that she understood it as sort of a mandate that is What she does, because he's britney spears her six was so sudden and she was so valuable and she was so monetize the bull that that its was wheeled against her as if it were, her vulnerable in a way that was analogous to the way disabilities may people vulnerable, where she was worth so much that she had.

To be robbed of decision making power in order to protect the acid? that was her life, In a way she's been made to pay for other peoples possible or actual desire to use her. Where that has been used against her to say you are valuable and so vulnerable because of your outsize talent and charisma. That we must This structure around you that does not give any one, not even you the person generating this value, the abyss, to endanger that in any way or for any in. Even if that reason is, I would simply like to stock break going back and talking to we quote paris hilton in this article, we talked a lot of friends were with her at that peak of white hot theme that shit during the early two thousands and the way they talk about her. Already being controlled and shelter to the point where he of paris. ten. We report too

her to use google. What google was- and you know we talked to friends who said We don't know she was ever allowed access to a computer, it like she was cut off from the world, run through this whole conversation. This theme of, if you deprive some one of their rights for this long, if use, alter someone for this long and erect these walls around someone. It's a change to some extent, someone's actual capacity to make decisions for themselves, and certainly there expectation of themselves and I think that's your hearing in her testimony where it sort of pleading and still in some ways for those of us on the outside of this kind of arrangement shy, kingly obedient, rang out. You know. She was, agree and lucid and seemingly correctly furious, but still living within this structure and the precursor of many many years of other types of control, on that one way in which her case is actually not unique, because

though, that early control came in brittany, spears, his case from fame and wealth You see in disability rights disputes all the time with. Conservatives is that For years they are treated in a way that deprives them of control and that back and said a situation that is ripe for this kind of a legal mechanism to formally rob them of control, and that then stay, get into it. for a whole variety of reasons it can be hard to get out of, but one of them is that they are been trained in conditions in a way where are they necessarily advocate for themselves in the way that you are, I might in this situation if we were placed into it tomorrow, so what? thing that I suspect that we you hearing going forward there is some sort of factual dispute and Brady's testimony right, her in her account of her life in court and, I suspect, There will be some sort of hovering argument that if something were

untrue in what she said, then that nullifies the argument right that, if she is not correctly and accurately, representing every bit of reality than there is actually a reason for all this to be in place exactly as it was. But one thing that I've been thinking about the last few days is: let's say every single word of that was a lie that still shows these sufficient narrative, control and mental sophistication as to make a pretty airtight argument against the structure, and I and I want to say at her her ill accurate planning, starting in two thousand and eight to try to get these lawyers to try to meet them to try to communicate with them to try to go to her and get him to read a letter on live tv, pleading her case writing a letter in the third person about herself so that her friend could read it on live tv. I mean this. Indicative of a level of composure narrative troll, even that is so different from, a story that has been put forth by her camp. That

I dunno, it's been a little shocking to me to remember how sophisticated these covert ops she was running in two thousand and eight. Were you know how little sophistication ought to be required right to be free in america? You don't need to be sophisticated, you can blow at all right. You can spend it all you could. This is america, we throw people to the wolves. Why What are we talking about here? This is america. You are not safe. From your own decisions. We built a whole big country around the idea that you are not safe from your worst decisions or even mediocre decisions, or even best decisions and bad luck. So why on earth is one per anyway, I'm down very upset before I've been cut that out We both veer time before I let you go. What happens now I'd, I think, there's two pieces of this one. I think you ve kicked off a conversation about the brittany spears conservation. While she helped kick it off and I think you ve helped a lot, right on that conversation, but there's also this larger, now debate around how conservator ships work outside of

with enormous fame and celebrity in money. What, where does this go from here? This was one of the reasons why I think she- and I both felt this- was such an important story and we both kind of went deep in conversations that we're not just about britney's but we're with legal and disability rights experts talking about this as an under regulated corner of the court system, and a set of legal mechanisms that can be exploited to take advantage of the vulnerable? We talk to disability rights lawyer who said is that in the most extreme of of these kinds of cases of conservator ship abuse use families adopt a strategy of isolate Person medicating them liquidating their assets, I'm so this can get to a very dark place, can be very hard to escape from four conservatives that want to assert their rights to due process as britney's this clearly struggling to do, and we talked to

people are familiar with the allay court system. Specifically, you said there is a lot of insider dealing and cronyism and repeat player is where you get the same: judges and the same lawyers any cases, enacting conservator ships and guardian ships that are fine and allow a family to look out for the best interests of a person but also in a fair number of cases that result in these lawyers taking a fat cut of someone's assets as those assets see. No, the hands of someone other than the conservative ie. So I think requires a watchful eye. Eight in part of the solution to these problems is gonna, be policy The change and more scrutiny on the hill were already seeing that we ve seen calls for hearings about conservator, ship abuse, sides of the aisle, and I think that's right avenue. I think there need to be some tough conversations about where we draw the line in terms of someone's right even to behave in a way that is harmful to himself. You no income.

For me, it is within the probate code that you will be represented by somebody in brittany case. Went straight to court. Appointed council by the probate code is really. It differs greatly state to state. There are some states where You are not guaranteed by any means access to council whatsoever, the rule very place by place, but to me, the keys slave. The policy lever involves language around the right, too. And some of your choosing, which you know when it's there as it is sensibly, is in California. It is often not applied sergeant in many states. It doesn't exist at all into me earlier that and the sort of data gathering stuff that Elizabeth Warren and company have called for that that to me as where Elias. I think that that is such an important point to take away from all of this and is often overlooked, regardless of

There you buy into the arguments of Brittany scares conservator ship defenders, regardless of the factual questions about for mental health. It is very hard to come up with an argument that job defies the repeated refusal to allow her to seek her own outside council, who could have worked with someone with genuine mental health struggles. They're just had not been a valid argument that I have seen in all the conversations around this and if that problem and be solved on a policy level in this wider universe of conservator ship abuse. If people can have more ready access to their own counsel in cases where they are high functioning enough to want, and to seek that, I think that that would go a long way. What I, and makes me the saddest about it is. It is so clear that this was a person who did not have a champion in her life but at the very least, she needed a champion in court. Someone who worked for her cared only for her and her interests, and it seems based on this

nation and what she said that that is not the case. So Ronan fair, you don t. Thank you both so much thank you for your boarding in this story, and I It was worth it for you to do good morning, America, on sunday, while we were on our holiday week s right decision. Thank you I think that there needs to be a special credit to both of our espouses for putting up with those last week. Canter has even read. The p is usually I likely I want everything seems a long already later. I John, I have to say, I'm I'm really grateful that you like. I don't think you should create the party using what the fuck are. We ve been talking about, because I the feeling I've had all along its lake. You know we let tons of celebrities sink themselves, ground and gambling debt and we don't give a shit if their old man, you know who, because she is like a still

a monetizing body, an image there's this idea that you can't do anything to endanger that asset, its wild, its like I like as a as someone that just had a baby and like if there a camera on me either you might have had some legal right to till they challenge my fitness and yet nobody is nobody shut and nobody. You know like its wild, our will, and if someone has mental illness and does it seem to have a lot of economic value, we discard them literally on the street, where someone who has a great economic power will imprison them and rang and make them work rat sorrow thank you so much to run in india for being here when we come back again don't go anywhere, love it or leave it and there's more on the way, love it or leave. It is brought to you by Brooklyn and it's summer again, and that means hot sunny days and nights that are too hot to get any sleep, enter brooklyn and crisp sheets that breathe to keep you cool mean you can say goodbye to sweaty summer nights brooklyn and was started to create beautiful, high quality home essentials that don't

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aims. Buchanan should have had a beating want people speculating about his sexuality. For two hundred thirty years, one of my favorites, pieces of historical quotation is Andrew Jackson. Calling james, we cannon and his his life partner. I suppose and fancy and ms nancy, which I d always like. That's not a factor this game, but I just like that. One of our president's was called by another president aunt Nancy. There is homophobia back then, let's move on. the job is it just picking china and stroking egos first lady to some of the most remarkable people in american history, dolly madison saved a portrait of george washington from the white house before the british burned to the ground, Louisa Adams race. Worms and who knows how many people, Hillary Clinton, killed members here to prove it. no they're! First lady history, we have some of the cost of crickets. First, ever scripted narrative, podcast, Edith, Adam com, over and clark gregg beg you both for being here, the show is

credible you're, both so funny and aunt. Thank you so much that you for having me I'm happy to be here. Thank you for making Edith. So that means boyfriend, Travis good. I have some kind of income in his life as I hope you get paid for this dead. Don't worry, we got em, we are compensated, they merely for his time and work yes, and also grateful to be here not just because I love the shepherd, because I'm up first lady fetishist and secret historian, Is your fetish? That's your point of view of a it's just one of them. Please don't limit me, don't let me know I I wouldn't I wouldn't, dare I wouldn't dare big, dolly madison guy yup, here's, our I asked you a multiple choice, question and then you answer that it and start a hard thing Cargo start with you, which first lady held sands, is in the red room of the white house in an attempt to communicate with the dead. Was it a lucretia guard? old, be louisa. Adam seem mortician adams de mary todd lincoln,

That's a really good one! I'm really glad you asked and many more jobs and is now in the list not on the list. Neither is nancy Reagan who I guess I didn't do. It was known to do a lot of waging a cab dismayed you stuff up now it was very time can for short, correct that is correct. That was my get out. I wasn't oh yes, I must say that was my guess, although it was it is, you're an expert, an fetishist. Very rarely do we have someone who can do without and diagram overlaps. You know it's more often, maybe effect, but I've I mean I don with bell that no money to get into it, but don't he's getting wet Martha. Washington was the first first lady to appear on american paper currency and which other official government tender is it a passports, be postage stamps

see virginia drivers, licences de liquor licences unless a postage stamps that she was the first to appear on postage stamps got it. You gotta, you know, is a process of elimination and the other one sounded stupid. So I knew was out one now explaining how multiple choice works in urges now you're bump. from the matrix. We have any kids who are listening. You know who about? Take the sats. You know it's off today, more than any other answers, and you know I'll tell you all this shit that you paid kaplan to tell you all right. It's it's simple, go eh! If you don't know and eliminate the one, obviously wrong one, and then you basically got a two out of four chance and you'll. Be fine, don't worry about it! That's really good advice! That's really good advice, we're learning trying to help who is the first. lady to drive a car and smoke cigarettes clark. Was it ain't we too have to be made me eisenhower, see Martha washington g jaclyn, oh shit, what a rebel kennedy there was no tat

Now I taft how'd, you know he's a fetishist. An expert everytime. Does the man had to say it wants to learn? And no, I was better the yoke is that's cool image. You can picture it she's just like fuck. All of them you know ok, I'm going away for the weekend. Husbands dead, who gives a shit Adam. Who is that the first lady to fly in an airplane one that was piloted by none other then Amelia erhard was it a best truman. Be jill Biden exactly see. Eleanor Roosevelt or d, a day. Jolly madison is not I'll buy. Does mrs german, his roosevelt Amelia erhard ah I'm not very good the years with amelia hide, but I'm going say it's o dollimore, It is not time it is too early to

I'm gonna go with mrs roosevelt, because they were, there would have been a little bit earlier, so she's more likely to have the first you've got it yeah, it was eleanor Roosevelt yeah eleanor was like what are the two of us just disappear for awhile and Amelia, not getting that it was a flirting was like, Ok, I'll go first, I'm saying that was about that. You know used theirs as why struggle to get Well, there's a lot of historical knowledge that goes into their joke and I really admire it. Thank you for saying that you see give me last shit, I know, but events surprise you, you know how much we something sweet. Aren't that's what happened that's classic gotta madonna? Just when you think you're on the out? Just when you are desperate for just a little, it that love that drug that approval it gives you just several hundred for my approval- and he says the first ones free. That's what he says about his compliments clark. yeah next won t you france's clara clean!

Preston was first lady from eighteen, eighty, six to eighteen, eighty, nine and again from eighteen. Ninety, three to eighty ninety seven. As you know, to this day, she holds the record for a being the only four lady, to throw the opening pitch of a world series be the only first to be removed from the capital building for public drunkenness, see the The lady who held her breath the longest or d becoming the youngest first lady at age, twenty one youngest first lady at twenty one that is correct. The man is a wizard knows his shit we are tied at getting them all right so far, yeah or are we got everyone right, yeah? But here's the thing carson, Real hard questions and you're gettin, fucking gimme, and you all you know who you are. You are hosting now using process of elimination, kaplan S, eighty multiple choice kill off. This is a the high school math class. I am the football coach Adam you are. My quarterback clark is just some fuckin nerd. That's held the test,

is being doll. Shit! That's what's happening here. No, I'm! I'm smile of a smart kid, I'm going through my brain no, you can't take this away from me. You're right, Europe's market, your lord expectation, hey yours, marquette Adam! Thank you really, I'll be back their Adams up dolly madison was the first private citizen to transmit a message by which method was it a classified in a newspaper, be morse code, see telegraph or de telephone? What's the difference between in morse code and telegraph. I thought telegraph was visa morse code. This is right, carts winning the game. Right he's not coming out this. Can have hiding Mary. It telegraphs were done via more than welcome to america. Your criticism is valid and you will will be punished for it, blah blah blah blah blah your a telegraph which is morse code. I'm gonna say the answer is telegraph yeah, you got it

yeah, so I just want to say I was the one who wrote these quote: did you write these questions, these questions telegraph and then they put in morse code, not knowing that force go to the medium for telegraph, that's like, if, oh, who who's prison used the telephone you are they doing the telephone or the human voice. You're fucking, embarrassing me adam in front of an agent of shield. I will remind the both of you that no, I don't know what the real answer is the books behind me. I think that this white paper of books- they are not real books. Final question goes to clark. Yea gets one extra question and you yeah that's how it goes. That's how the host, who was the first first lady to have doctorates clark gregg! Is it a rosalind carter? Be Joe Biden, see Nancy reagan, ordeal mamie, Eisenhower, Rosen You are, you are crushing it, but it was

he'll Biden? Joe Biden is the first first lady to ever have a doctor, oh my god, you're right, rosin carter. Didn't she didn't finish her thesis Scandalously honest, Gisela right honestly, the fact you you know what that's. Why he's an expert and fetishist aright? He knows the details, I I know why I lost. He knows which is, why is this honestly, we've had some close, close competitions before this isn't one of them. It is not even fucking close This was an embarrassment for adam con over and an unbelievable destroy, auction by clark gregg, who is the winner of this game, is absolutely tell you. Why would that be the case by wind percentages? Hundred I got everyone right, Adam caught over leaves with his tail between his leg, completely fucking embarrassed. I have not seen someone wind so thoroughly Adam. I hope this does not make you feel like you're, not welcome. I want

come back, don't be embarrassed, some people when some people lose you lost this diary, rancher guy wine or at least targets that sounds like a loser, would saddening clark and I would agree a couple of winners me being a host and clark being the winner of the game and too little stars of unita. Everybody please goes scribes Edith right now. It is incredibly funny. It is incredible story about Edith Wilson, the first secretly. Now present the united states Adam Clark. Thank you so so much we can do. I will end on a higher animal back, because we all needed this week here it is the height of falling from Today we have a height of I think that all state of mind, because I state legislature- is proposing an amendment to the constitution of our state to establish rebecca food, and we would be the first thing to do that in a huge added to them, amazing craig had been, who worked tirelessly for the people of Van gogh, craig

You go man, I love it. This is jackie merely from massachusetts, and I'm calling with my high know We ve got a nice, the impossible millennial dream and just butter for house today, the fires and the physician, and still we have to live with my parents to get this done now. We're gonna move on to the next for paying off the student loans is getting I've, never go. Then the other day with them is okay. Anyway, thank you everything and have a I love. It means in the amazon comic and my highlights a week ago, gotta go home for the first time in eating months until jokes, I gotta perform at my home comedy club you, gotta do is show at the part that had two hundred people at it is just about me got it so I wanted to thank you. I love it I'm finally able to share a high note that I've been working towards for a year and a half. This week I left my job

and here the middle management in the tech sector and of having a graduate school in august at the age of fifty. If there's one thing The present crooked media have taught me is how important it is for our voices to be heard. So I'm gonna do my part to support those voices, beginning my masters in speech, language, pathology and, what's a graduate of my time, helping people to gain or to regain their ability to communicate. So my thanks to you the whole gang a crooked into all the other high, no cars who stories gave me confidence that I too could take the reins in my life and have it to the torture thing either. Well, thanks for all you do and for keeping us laughing. Even through the worst of it, by hey Lucas can san diego or my high note of the week is about my daughter's two and a half I love the pandemic. She has been receiving services for likely autism really really challenging with and then again However, the roll out of federal, etc. This week

We're sitting around to her singing a skewed american rinkitink skillery to do and he's gonna paused a thing. I love you part and out of nowhere are nonverbal little angel, said at the eu and my wife, and I just about lost it for the first time, she's really over seventy words in her thirty plus months or a year.

Thank you very much. If you want to leave us a message about something again, you hope you can call us at. She won three to six to four four to seven and things it everybody Paul, then thank you to eat a regal gentlemen, tina ronan, pharaoh, Adam Canova, clark, gregg and everybody who called in there are four hundred and eighty six days until the twenty twenty two mid term. Elections have a great weaken lover: leave it as a cricket media production. It is written and produce by meet John of it in the eyes and were candor games. As our senior producer johnson kaufman, fully began. Olenin Peter miller are our writers. Our socio producer is brian sembled bill lances, our editor and kyle. Second, is our sound engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by sure sure, thanks for designers, jesse, Mclean amerika, my air for creating and running oliver visuals, which you can't see, because this is a pot cast antwerp. Producers, normal coney and milo? Came me a common and matter group for filming and editing video each week, so you can.

IRA madison, the third and I am Lois fertile step aside and become a real reunion has begun this spring. We are so excited to bring you brand new episodes of keep it where we explore the biggest and loudest ways. Entertainment pop culture and politics collide catch up on our most recent interviews. With hollywood legends like michelle yeoh Judith and surely rough on top of that we found time to chop it out with alexander scars. Guard unit should add Kristen china with so join us for new episodes of our podcast. Keep it every wednesday. Listen wherever you get your podcasts