Love it or leave. It is brought to you by our presenting sponsor jura, a single malt scotch whisky made by the same tiny island communities since eighteen ten today playing minute, makes ology where John and I try to make delicious whisky cocktails and under a minute last time we made the germ laundry again, bon jour m and this week our The jura sent us the ingredients. We need for today's cocktail, their jura java you ready, John ready. As our lover be John. Here we go step, one, add ice to shaker step. Two add in one point: five: ounces of euro ten whiskey to the shake glug glug glug, glug, glug, glug, glug little extra step. Three add in one ounce, coffee liqueur were using colors. kaluza. This is a perfect pre work cocktail, I'm looking at them bottle of kahlua that the jury folk at me right now, step for add three ounces of cold through coffee step. Five shake vigorously steps

extreme the liquid into a copy, my and then nobody on the zoom will now doesn't say that to the sun. very good taste! tat. It was his darkshire uranos. Mrs Bowles, I like this. It's like its bold coffee and you know it some business in the front party in the back It's become a minute mixologist. Today, all the ingredients we use today to make the jura java are available to order in a bundle, yoda jura, whisky, dot, com, slash love it to have the jura java minute, mixologist cocktail kit, mailed to your doorstep, what a fun little thing that you can get: jura: whisky, dot, com, slash love; it use the code, love at ten and you'll save ten dollars, as they say in scotland, sludge, eva, which is gaelic for who they take the supreme court seat. Then we just add some fucking seats to the supreme court. It's not about getting even spout. It's actually isabel!

it's about getting even yeah? No wait! It's not a it's got to be a better way to end that who cares anyway. Maybe it is about getting even find sometimes getting evens enough. The welcome to love it or leave it. Homestretch volunteering. That the John. Look,

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No reason await come on we're in it. You can pay and for a very long time you have not spent four years paying attention to fuck it up in the last four they will have more opportunities than ever in october, so commit right now to doing more than you ever have this. Is it let's make sure that in november? Third, when the last pole closes, we are too aired leader, the show we joined by pga vote from reply all and funny cima from the end of a lazy, p, legal education, defence one and what we do by some listeners for a game, but first she's, a writer in the dark groaning and the marble series she how welcome back care brown? Oh hello, hello, Do you like waving means anything anymore, hey they can't take away waving, not yet at least the last thing too let's get into it. What a week and as far as seven day stretches goes this one as a real humdinger

a lot of bad news, stuff, weak the debt, the ruth vader Ginsburg, the immediate effort to fill her seat, the lack of accountability for the murder of brianna taylor, trump more and more explicitly rejecting democracy, not to mention the fact that we crossed two hundred thousand deaths due to covet nineteen, so kara, we're gonna start with a joke, there's just incredibly stupid up against an incredibly dom distracting thick, a joke. So bad, it's distracting. Are you ready place and illinois man is kept richard Nixon's unfinished sandwich in his freezer for over sixty years, when open. The sandwich container. Do you know what it said clara tell me I am not a crook, Ok, ok, you know what I feel like like it's you Oh wait for like businesses hours and you just like you're so just combine related and that those I'm counting on that yeah cause- I laughed at that, but I should have no you I actually went and read an article about this man and my

you're part of the article is also richard. Nixon comes to some kind of picnic is sixty years ago. He was a kid. A life takes three bites of this sandwich says he liked it that it was delicious many can. It goes on to the next thing that written dixon was indirect nixon event and why they were part of these guys, so I looked around and unlike is nobody taken. This thing was just the prince like there wasn't any other preservation tactic. It was I'm glad you asked him. Placed it in a jar, ok to replace the jar in the freezer, an appeal: let's move between several freezers over the last sixty years. Didn't so look like a thin What's it like a minor here, we know now we don't know, doesn't matter, it doesn't really matter my does. The idea of a guy looking around me, like my crazy, is but he taking this. This is amazing. Richard Nixon took three bites and that its surface now, like you know why, not at year, thirty or forty year. Why? Now? Because we have

What's going on, I can see why looking like this is what the world needs. Looking back on his life, his achievements this week We reached a grim milestone, as I mentioned, two hundred thousand deaths caused by covert nineteen, the number of confirmed, coven nineteen deaths in the. U s is equivalent to a nine eleven attack every day for six seven straight days: carry eddie, for what I consider to be too dark a joke. I don't have a choice so yeah here we go. That's a lot of inside jobs. Now on now, yeah. I know and an dumb there other. There is an alternative that was worse and weave and I was gonna. Maybe just tell you that, but not put it in the podcast, but I can't even bring myself to do that. So I'm just gonna move forward its a dark time and I have embraced that darkness in terms of just the accepting that it's going to be part of these jokes, that's what that's, what we're doing their origin

will you tell me the joke later or is it like? Ok, ok, yeah I'd has to do with a dick cheney's fantasies. That's just a little! Ok, that's all you need to know tat. I think. Well, you know what that reminds me of the office got started. Something like you know. Nine eleven just became funny and You proven that wrong. in better covert news. The FDA is set to announce a stricter set of standards for emergency authorization of a cuban nineteen vaccine, which would make it harder for the trump administration to politicized the approval before the election. The new standard, say the vaccine must prevent cove it not just abiden victory. It can also do that, but it has to do the covert peace The vine victory part, that's nice to have sore. You know with your vaccine. There has to do the covert thing, got it that bills are growing up about really remaining finland.

during a pilot programme to try out a corona virus living dog at the helsinki airport, which will reach him. Oh my this dog loves me. What's your name, I'm sorry what No, I know it's adorable. What are you trying to tell me why, therefore look so upset ives dogs adorable, I dont speak which I just love is adorable dog. What are you? What are you telling me that I can? I guess it be finish finish with a joke. Do you think you can find during her better, yet yeah absolutely thing: asking a hundred percent now. I definitely think that dumb, you here's the thing you take way, the audience feedback, and every six months you get funnier in sore sore you are always so receptive to audience feedback anyway. So well, look I

Look I like the audience to like what we're doing, but I don't get it do not the be all and of our rights under their just wrong it can be funny and they don't care. That's true. On sunday, a canadian woman was arrested for allegedly mailing an envelope containing rice into the white house. Another job for an american sent abroad about before obviously kara. Obviously we are glad they found the rice in before you heard lad, whose glad we are glad was. We are glad they found the rice and lord hurt anyone shore major savage ray. I don't think I'm doing it. I had to get into character. We are glad that the right and was found before it could hurt anyone sure, but her believes the post office is working. You know. I saw that and I had a thought that I think the first

am I ever- did love it or leave it. I said something about wanting to punch, Paul ryan and you guys cut it out robin anterior hundred percent, and so my thought was in that general vicinity know for sure again. I want to reiterate that both Karen I expressed thou, glad I found the rice in before it hurt anybody shore. Obviously, on Monday, monday, the justice department going full fascist issued a list of cities. It is deemed anarchist jurisdictions, including york, city portland in seattle, for the purpose of potentially withdrawing federal funding, new york city, anarchists, the line to long for cupcakes on bleaker Here's a real kara here super can't call a city and an artist. Such a downward and that the anarchist can't go sitting in work and are playing a stress at the wrong place. Could it and kiss yet ego

you are doing image, are anarchists and kiss yeah, of course sore I want you to know something. I've been baffled by this work for days now and now I'm understanding anarchist. Of course, I guess what it is that I can see that an anarchist person sore zone is not. I guessed right is an anarchist jurisdiction. I my mind. It was like an anarchist is a person, it's an anarchist location, but I guess that doesn't make, sense. Did you say that anyone perhaps someone you know what you never let it allowed. We enter a lot about it and that's diaries. Will you the news and my I get an over this at work. You know I'm not at us pronounced. The word anarchist is really put a damper on getting through this two sentences about this issue. Yes, two points one, you can call a city that is a communal bike programme sponsored by a bank that's the opposite of his stuff, and this is incorrect

we small but here's one bit of anarchy in new york city that I do think is solvable and it is this at columbus circle, ya, half the subway stops are local and half of them are spress. Aha, I don't really understand that. I don't want the one. I want the to write a hard to get I dont understand why the a sea is an express stop, but the two and three they don't stop, stop economies, so you just don't understand and accept with us. On that you're. No, I understand it. Ok, I'm saying that I understand how work. Ok, I get it yeah long user? What I'm saying is it should just be an express that's my point: Oh you think all columbus circle should be an express. I don't understand why you have to get on a local colombia circle to major stop it's a major but isn't that leg like one The new york one twenty fifth street was my like home base, which has both express

or is it not just our out? No, it's that. No, of course, every expressed also has local stopped. Using is, I know yours is both a local and it expresses not just I don't. I express trains, don't stop there. I get it and it does make any sense to me de Blasio. Not your fault was Ozzy a long time anyway, that's that goes out. My wish, I guess so sure I'll. Have that back to anarchy. I got it a quick note, quick note: let's trim, let's trim that part down. Alright, that's just a note. We can leave this in about the trimming, but let's trim some of this time. I went on too long, not knowing how to pronounce a very normal word and I dwelled on a pretty small and ultimately really kind of silly. Way issue clear, prettier, wheat, subway issue, columbus circle, who's, gonna, collaborative work, all air working people on the upper side,

dividing, don't divide this city right now that right we put up with people put their pants one leg at a time everyday side, you ve got me to shop around the corner, yeah tuesday. was national voter registration day. Apparently, seven hundred and fifty thousand people have now registered to vote through snapchat. It's inspiring to see that people in two thousand and twenty are using snapchat for more than just sending each other pictures, I'm sorry of their hanging chads, while that, why kara. Don't applaud your blog at your. Thank you so much for this applause. That's from kara, again cell, Multiple people yeah the other crowded people applauding for that. Did you write that. Our you get help with yet. Okay I'll, take credit virtue. Ravages cords

courts have ordered the postal service to prioritize mail. In voting to it's been gibbered responded. I told you I'm registered justice just joke after Joe a plus. Just now I m yeah who s and and Ben gibbered telling, me, I'm gonna be honest. I barely understood that you have, but I dont want to repeat itself, so I believe so you know, member the postal service I've been gibberish, yeah, but they had another band as well as the other band called. Anybody remember cab cutie. Of course I knew it was I can't I'm going to get. That sounds like a question for somebody, gettin sunburned If you know what I mean, I know I'm going Very I'm why your black eating get the reference year is very white, very white nonsense: yeah yeah! No, I honest

I am glad you said something, because only I would know cause I can see it did you see it in your expression, which doesn't come across MIKE Bloomberg is right, more than six million dollars to pay the court finds in fees of nearly thirty two thousand voters with felony conviction in florida. Look some of us were pretty harsh toward might bloomberg during the presidential campaign. Not me out, never set a bad word about of, and I just want to say to all those people that mob. Mr Bloomberg, shame on you! Shame on you, my bedtime story, is Elizabeth Warren undressing that man on live television, but thank you for the money, kara just wanna that never I think you're overstating it was a kind word between colleagues and friends or we're. So I look, I don't I wish we did not live. A system in which the outcomes of our elections can be altered by the whims of a few dozen billionaires, but until we can put a stop to that

I want to pay my respects to overlord Bloomberg, an urgent put more money and yeah terms on a vision, saying democracy, I don't think so. So we gotta get that I get the score up on election night. What if we let him stop and frisk all of the former incarcerated people after he pays their fines. Maybe he'll give us even more money. You get to stop and frisk them when you, when you pay off the fines, make so is that worth more money, just a suggestion. You think about that or to spit bow and arrow. I just look. He's got fifty five billion dollars according to Google arms and I'm saying you can eat out eke out a nice life on fifty four I put a hundred million in florida, that's incredible aright! It could make the difference between

run up this score man. He asked his thing going on a pencil vainer. They gotta put their bowed and another thing, and then thing and another thing: it's very confusing we gotta get some adds up my care she's, just kidding, we kara care, before we started she sucked about how much she liked you yeah yeah, how cool you look in a leather jacket. She was talking about it. She couldn't stop talking about it. I completely all those times you let your police a stop, and first my friends icon, We leave forgot about it. I don't even remember at just get us some money. We just need of terror. I know I'm just trying to get us some goddamn money. We need the money. Thank you. Thank you, Michael and a blue brand you're, getting I'm kidding, I'm getting out of the woods, we love bloomberg terminal are moving in in pennsylvania. The states room court ruled naked ballots or ballots mailed without their secrecy envelope would not be counted terrible ruling by genuine smocks. So that means we have to make sure

The word out you anyone. We know and pennsylvania you your ballot with blue or blacking. Yes, sir. hid in the secrecy envelope. Then he put that secrecy envelope in turn on below? You need both envelopes. Then you sign and date that one key Then you make sure you have postage, then you return it everyone you know in that state in the car while the pennsylvania, you need both fucking envelopes, the drill it into everybody's heads. You have friends in pennsylvania, you know people there you're there, we're gonna, tell everybody both fucking envelopes. That's the phrase be ivy, both bucking envelopes kara, should be easier russian doll year, yapping vote yeah viewed envelope. novel of russian doha, the shit out of that they have to pay for their own stamps. It's a pens, my eye, the all the information

It says that some of them, I think, are- I think it honestly depends on where you are in pennsylvania, that come on. How can it depend? It's one eight, so you may need postage if you do get a stamp Isn't that bad boy? You may not, if you don't good for you, good braille guy those ballots in early ghana, man, pennsylvania. I adopted you because together we gonna undo the damage from twenty six t. We can do this aright gesture easier, that's just should be much easier should be much easier. That's crazy are well on one they went. Tromp was ass if it commit to a peaceful transition of power. After election day, he replied. Well we're going to have to see what happens. The bad news is that a frightening thing for a person who controls the justice department to say the good news is that he is saying this because he's afraid of losing- and I pointed out in the one thing I haven't anybody point out. A lot of the same skills needed to mount a successful pandemic response are also the skills you need to mount a successful coup discipline here,

it organise the ability to read too, bottom of a piece of paper without getting bored in wanting to turn to the television. I had a real issue with that atlantic doomsday article in part because it extensively quoted a trump and ain legal adviser. who is going to say a bunch of bullshit that isn't necessarily true because there all liars and that would so they're trying to do and so to me that is the source was crazy, but I just think, like he says, all kinds of shit. He said You can shoot someone in the middle of the street and not go to prison. It only is true. If you let it be true, this idea that, like he's like, why may not accept it? It's like that's only true if we allow that that's not actually true, and just because he said it doesn't mean it's true and it's the thin ice endless

he's going to say crazier shit between now and then and we can't always respond with like oh my god, he said he was going to. He said he was going to murder someone guys like he'll, just say whatever the fuck yeah. He also said the virus would go away like he says whatever he has to say yes in the moment to so chaos, so fear to help himself. Yes, I feel. Similarly, I think we have to do two things at once and they are not contradictory over or though at times they may feel contradictory. We have to take what he says seriously and we need to know that smart people our thinking through some ugly scenarios. We have to do that work. I'm not saying that when the press of the united states, basically abandons democracy. It is an important and worth taking note of and taking he'd have, of course, but we should also remember it is our job to make sure everyone understands that he is doing this to make people afraid because he's afraid, because he knows that if we vote and if we vote in record numbers, there's nothing, he can say, there's nothing you can do

He will be removed, and so, if one more person texts me that atlanta girl, I'm going to I'm going to I'm gonna, take my phone and I'm going to stick it in some melted, keto ice cream. Because it turns out mounted kido ice cream. Is zalm disappointing up, I haven't cracked the code. I think much like cato ice cream. What he says does sound scary. I am not suggesting that we should be alarmed, but I just think we keep getting okey doke by these clowns. We just keep letting it happened where they say something asinine and we just take it seriously and I think it is worrisome, but I dont think I think something can be worth something you can look at and say on its face, that's absurd and so on

not going to accept that. This is true because he's saying it and it's still scary, but I just it's like guys- we gotta stop letting them do this to us. Yes. Well, I also get to your point that I think is really important is that it can become self fulfilling, not only because he can't destroy our collective faith in democracy without our help. He can't, but also a it, affords him more power over us and the process than he actually has. Alright. He doesn't have that much power directly over the process and it sends a message to a lot of people who may or may not vote right now that their vote may not matter, and we need to tell everybody. Our message needs to be very clear, which is that we believe in democracy. We believe in making sure everybody is counted and if we all do our part- and everyone is counted, no effort by trump to divide us or scare us or sow chaos can work, and if we all do our part, we will win and he will lose that's. Why he's afraid? That's what makes him weak we have to draw. That is not just a nice thing to hear it is a message

a message to make sure everyone understands that their vote will be counted. We will vote on record numbers. We will count all the votes. We will honour the results. We will remove him. That is the plan, and there are a lot of people on twitter who have a lot of anxiety and too few positive outlets right now, I feel the same way, but people need to stop acting like they invented. afraid. I think that there are a lot of white people who have come to understand how it feels to be disenfranchisement feeling that they are not entirely familiar with. And it is very frightening. I understand I'm with you, I get it I I am feeling it too. I have come to understand that in a way I didn't before not saying that I can understand it fully, but I understand it better than I did before, but I think we owe some respect to people that have been disenfranchised and understand what it feels like to be politically or less for a long time to not lose our shit yeah to kind of stay focus. Yeah, it's a little corny. I just keep thinking like I look at

eighty nine year old grandmother and I'm like that was worse than this. Almost everything that was way worse than this, like everyone in charge, was worse the you know what she had to deal with on a daily that was way worse than this, and yet it's not that way anymore, and this, like lack of, may be sort of historical. You know just reference points. yourself of seeing what people can do and overcome. I do think that is part of it. I think it is sort of an unfamiliar concept, a lot of white people, but it's like the number of things that just seemed worse than this Yet people found a way to make it happen. It is why I cannot deal with that an egg and losing sight of the goal? It's like you gotta keep your guardian eyes on the prize until like. If we get there,

and it doesn't go away, weaken despair than we can be miserable then, but until then tighten up do the work, get your shit together. Let's make an effort and see how it goes, and you can sign up for a fucking shift at votes. If america dotcom makes some calls close, your laptop yes, you know don't use twitter for a bit make some calls do any donating that you can do some texting. It will feel a lot better than ruminating over worst case scenarios. How about we do our part to to achieve what is a very achievable best case scenario, yet is possible we could on election night it could be terrible, it can be a disaster. We can also win. Imagine we take a moment

guys be a winner. Losers are losers, don't be a fucking loser, he's a he's, a broken scared, weak person who has cowed a bunch of broken scared, little politicians and captured the loyalty of a fraction of this country who decided they would rather hate other americans than address the ways in which they feel as though if laws, dignity and purpose. I wish it were in so pay, but he's not he's a tv tyrant. We are in a. We are real people. Did you either headline that he was studying Joe Biden tape of the debates, and I was like the fact that they would use the word study. They describe that man. He fell forward through blood sport to get justice. They contentious point five and eight in between taped yachts. New second gotta get into focus just hang a chicken mcnugget office during our it.

Kara brown so good to see you thanks for doing this transfer. Haven't me, you know, got a few laughs each em out. next time, maybe we'll get some more. Perhaps thanks! or brown for joining us. When we come back I'll talk to PJ vogt about reply as investigation into the origins of q and on and what it tells us about conspiracy theories and how people consume information, don't go anywhere. There's more of love it or leave it coming up, love it or leave it as brought to you by roman, getting reliable healthcare from home and high quality treatment you could afford is more important than ever, especially for those who don't get insurance or care is going to a pharmacy in person being able the forger. Medication should depend on one insurance. You have a coupon, you can fight. That's why there's row pharmacy row pharmacies a different kind of farmers that fills prescriptions for a flat rate of five dollars each per month for over five hundred generic medications? No co pays no coupons. No, he's just five dollars: row: farmers, pharmacy, automatically ships, FDA, approve medication directly to your door. So you never have to worry

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reply, all from gimlet media and spotify podcast. Both my producers consistently tell me is better than this one. Please welcome PJ's out, I'm so sorry, that's that's not even if this happens, they say for having me thanks, we're the things being on the shout, so I'm so excited to talk to you. You did it. You figure who q, as you think, we think we figured out. I just wanna be careful here. We think we figure out who is in control of the account I've been trying to fight, perfect analogy all week but like if there is one person on earth who could verify that batman was batman and they could assume the new batman at any time, and no one would ever know it happened that so we think we ve identified. I appreciate that caviar, but thank you figured it up. So the origins of the cuban on conspiracy theory, so tell us how you stumbled across this. And what you learn during this investigation. I think, like most people, I've just on cue anon as a phenomenon really frustrating because clearly a hoax

it's a hoax that perennially! It's like our little burn itself out this of about. Instead, more and more people believe it and while I knew that the person who posted or the people who post on the account posted anonymously on a channels like we will never know who they are, unless they one day step forward and like add it was me, you know, jigs up and so I got really excited because a few weeks ago I saw a bunch of tweets from this man in frederick Brennan, frederick originally created Chan and then renounced the website. They try to get on the internet and he was saying as someone who, and how the website works. I believe that the person behind Q anon has made some sort of opsec mistakes. That are very obvious to me and if you look at those mistakes, what you realize is that

well. It could have been started by any random internet troll over time. It's almost certainly like been hijacked by the current owner of a chan. This man in Jim watkins and his son run you said- is that that that key found this a very frustrating because it so obviously a house and one of the things you you talk about, is how this emerged as almost like a meme, a kind of hopes that was circulating like they're. All of these people posting on these various fora. About being, an anonymous insider with secret tips. It was almost like, like cosplay le characters, people were decided to take on. It was just one many like that in following these leads like. Why do you think this one version of that character took off so

I didn't know this like. I didn't know that dell brand reporter who we spoke to for this story. He was like yea yea in twenty seventeen or whatever. It was almost like a bit that people on these image boards were doing words like I'll pretend to be a secret white house. Guy, all pretend to be a secret cia guy and q is the one that, like really took on a life of its own I'd. Also, never really seriously red cues drops before we take enough pendant or don't reckon that its lunacy, but the early q posts they are better bullshit than the other stuff. What I think they figured out the person behind us That part of the fund on the internet is the feeling of uncovering something. It's not just being told. Look, here's a bunch of secret, its being told, like here's, a mystery that you can solve and like you, we will build this crazy conspiracy, theory together, and so what I think you and I did write the premise

he's. So dumb is that they are, as you know, a garment super spy and they want to leave this information to help the true believers take down. You know the democratic pedophile army or whatever, but if they were just say their information they get caught, so they have to incur. in dumb, easily solved riddles, and that way the deep state won't be able to stop the leaking, but their loyal fans will like pizza together. I think part of what made it work, though, that piecing together. It listening to the episode and even in italians you now like it remains baffling to me why this thing has gotten such hold on people, because it is so silly on its face. It began by someone saying Hillary Clinton about to be around but at the airport or what have you like. There have been so many of these different levels of prediction along the way that have never come to pass. One of things you uncover. Can you just tell people

The password oh yeah, we're dealing with here, one when you see people believing he went on when you see polling that shows the word pedophile rising in the ranks to describe democrats know that this is the level of person that has been spreading. This information so this person is somewhat sloppy in the mechanics of it and when the ways in which they are sloppy is that multiple times either they have had their password cracked or they have just accidently type, their password in plain text into posts on the board, and so not only do we know that Q's first password was matlock. We then, after that password leaked flee, changed it to matlock, but with the a replaced with an ampersand and an exclamation point at the end classic classic classic wait out the security level on a password. Does it matter that that you Leave you figured out at least one person that may have been in control of his account. Does it have any impact on this conspiracy theory? How is it played out?

in the queue community? Oh god did I tell you how much it doesn't fuckin matter. Doesn't matter so much that when Matlock thing happened like when these tripoli saw that this? So spy was so damn that they are taking their password into the board. They were like, oh that wasn't a mistake, that's meaningful, because if you look back in history in like the nineteen fifty's, thing. There was an american ambassador named ambassador matlock and that ambassador was known for having a certain relationship with russia that was very friendly. Therefore, what q is trying to tell us like I don't know if you have ever had the experience of falling for something stupid, like even in your own life, but it's like the further

in. You are the higher the cost of admitting that you've made a mistake like if you're, at the point where your family's, not talking to you and all your friends are people who you've met online have also believe in us. It's like people's investment is, as in this is really deep, a quote that we didn't put in the story, but I found really meaningful was and MIKE Rothschild who's like another guy who studies q and on stuff. He said that he thinks of q anon as like the heroine of conspiracy.

Eriez by which he meant it's no one's first drug you get into like nine eleven truther staff or, like Clinton body count staff, and you, like you rock around in that world for awhile and cues, like your last stop on the train, and so by the time people are ready to believe this they're, not at a point where you're like wait, but here's some simple facts that might disabuse you of this, like they are in so and exploring q, but also in. I think some of your other deeper looks at the way technologies influencing how people gather information here information. Now, what do you think has made people susceptible in this environment to conspiracy theories like this? As you say, this is the last stop not the first stop on a train. What do you think has led so many people to be seeking out this kind of information, this kind of worldview, one if you think about it and the way we tried to put the story together- was to do almost like a an epidemiology of bullshit yeah, not what's in people's hearts. That makes them want to believe it. But what is the media environment that spreads it? And so, in this case, like one way you can think about is just you have

a chance, a place for leg noxious, but mostly young internet, trolls, and there is a media story about how the lie goes from a chance to lake your boomer uncle on facebook, which is lake, it starts on each hand. They very intensely want to spread. It gone info wars, but they also go on bread and on youtube and they start creamy seed channels and those platforms. Don't move fast enough to shut it down like now, like in researching the story. It was hard to find some of the early cuba because the platforms of kind of caught up if they would have a firmer moderation, hand on us. It stops it. The larger thing I don't know I've never believed in a conspiracy theory. I think in some ways this does just take all the anti Clinton sort of republican vast conspiracy stuff that started years ago. It's almost like that fervour and anger that existed? I think it actually builds on that. There was one thing: that's where it came to believe in their reporting. Is that weirdly they Hillary Clinton being central? This is important to them.

our of it in a way that before it looked into it, I didn't really understand I do they gonna. We spent a lot of time. I think correctly talking about the ways in which facebook has radicalized baby boomers lot of other people too, not just to pick on a boomers, though you know I will, but I think we don't spend enough time thing about how people radicalized facebook, like what has led a certain group of, in this case, older people, to want information that is sad, buying in this way that confirms their prejudices confirms. Their biases makes the world easy indigestible, and maybe that's always been there. Of course it has been but like something has changed that has led so many people to see confirming information. What its fox news or all the way down the rabbit. Whole conspiracy theories like this. Something is deafening change. There are smarter people than me with your ideas about that? The only moment where I felt like a glimmer of the emotional pull that drives people to do that, was like. Do you remember, post trouble,

shan the time for some game. Theory thread wow while wreak that. Yes, I have not thought about that in a long time. Bout, that's what a but a way I held different political environment. That was time for some fucking game theory yeah. I remember that, but like that was a crit. I mean that was like Eric and a person who, I don't think many people had heard of at that point, and he was like. I can't even remember. It was like one hundred tweet thread trying to explain how what looked like trump running russia. Hooker everything was actually a complicated five each has gained by Democrats and, like I retreated a thread I unread tweeted. you're driving up, they done, but I did it wasn't even game theory. Knowing what I don't like the erika

various. No, there is no equilibria up up up up. All the prisoners had dilemmas, no, no, but one. I think it's like people when people are afraid they believe packages nodded particularly deep. I dont know how to fix this. Like there's moments where I really think I feel about the people apparent generation, the weight they felt about, like kids, watching yet our movies or something like. Oh, you he'd, better computer literacy, for that feels so small relative to the size of the problem. Yeah. It really does I I should have answers. No, you don't need to have. Nobody has answers. I think we're all grappling with this part of this is we do need to put the responsibility back on it. I think we're all looking around for answers and, of course, the answer staring us in the face. You know I saw Sheryl Sandberg gave an interview. We say that we'll look at all the good we've done to help organize movements, but like no other business is allowed to say, look at the good. We do to counteract the bad

We do like, if you had a supermarket, where ten percent of the food in the supermarket was poison they wouldn't be able to say, but look at all the healthy brats omega of analysis and wonderful breads weave offered. No, but I mean honestly yet I think I think if you look at the last fifty years, the thing that changed was the internet. You know like it's not like earlier generations were less credulous or less like wanted to believe in things that were completely bonkers. I think a lot of the responsibility is of the tech companies. I also think there is something in

our country, where, like I dunno, where a bunch of weirdos who believe weird shit and like this, feels like the most toxic thing, that a bunch of people decide to believe in awhile. But when I was talking to MIKE rothschild for a story, I was like yeah, but it's pretty clear who's behind this. The fact that it's pretty clear how they do it. The fact that they've made highly specific claims that have not been borne out like at some point doesn't start to matter like doesn't start to pile up and he was like l ron hubbard said that he would never die and then he died and now there's scientology, like I dunno we are weird, tree the believes, weird things- and this is this- is one of the weird runs page. I will leave it there sat up, but they couldn't care that I've tirelessly I've try it. I'm try. I can't think of a higher place to end on. It is a fascinating So I actually really recommend everybody. Listen to the most recent episode of reply all to hear the story, but everybody should subscribe to a reply all because an incredible podcast you will not regret it pj vogt! Thank you so much thanks

having me thanks to pda vote for joining us when we come back I'll talk to you, penny cima from the end of a lazy, I just don't, go anywhere, love it or leave it and there's more on the way, love it or leave. It is brought to you by simply safe here's the thing about home security companies, most trap, you with high prices, tricky contracts and the customer support so well. There are a lot of options out there. There's only one, no brainer, simply safe feel free to share your own experiences. Ok, I set it up myself. It works great. I use it all the time, for example, to wit, John, to wit, I am out of town right now, but a friend of mine, a duty covered, was looking to get away from his apartment because there are some work being done in the building, and so I said, hey hey. I'm not home popping over to my house has to give, and so you gave him your code while I first I just unlocked it. I just went and went right from your phone. What people do this, but he just he, just hit his phone, who the boop is a phone touches from the boop as a phone. It just works. Great in user. I can figure it out of my phone. I like that simple

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people back. You can download it you put in the code. Crooked. Ten hours goes to you, that's all for you in and ten dollars goes to teachers in the classroom. Donors choose a worthy cause, so seems that can no brain or a lot of you have downloaded a lot of you have entity or switch the cash out putting the code crooked, we're not using other payment out anymore and we're back. The manager of the policing reform campaign at the end of a lay cp legal defence and education fun. Please welcome pony cima banks remain here my pleasure thanks for having been so. I want to talk to you about the news regarding ground a tailor. Only one of the three officers was indicted and not for the murder, but for want, endangerment because firing into the building put neighbours at risk. What message you take from these charges? So The grand jury decision is incredibly painful to process and especially thinking of brianna tellers family, her loved ones, the louvre activists and people all over. The country have been fighting for justice for victims of police, violence and findings. hard this summer, through

a pandemic showing up repeatedly to make their voices heard in Obiang taylor was twenty six years old. She was young and hard working and m t, and might my heart goes out to her family. I cannot imagine the pain of losing my child to police violence Understandably, there's been a lot of focus on the indictment of only officer hang concern for want on endangerment for his shooting into neighbouring apartments. We have called for the release of the grand jury, transcripts and evidence that was used in the grand jury, so the but can evaluate how the case was presented to the grand jury and the guy. of kentucky is also ass. The attorney general deposed online, all information, evidence, in fact that he cannot release without impacting the indictment and the public deserves this information to see. One of the presentation of the case to the grand jury was fair. There is peace, for this when the grand jury in Saint Louis county decided not to indict darn wilson, the officer who killed oh brown in ferguson, the cunning

prosecuting attorney, released the transcripts and other documents in the spirit of transparency, so call on the Kentucky attorney general to do the same. We see a national protest movement in response to the killing of george lloyd, the killing? rihanna taylor, many others. We are also in a presidential. Campaign. What does ex administration need to do to ensure We have better police accountability nationally. What kind of reform can actually happen nationally, and what are you make? of the proposals that the binding campaign has forward on police and criminal justice issues, let's take a step back and look at the mechanisms that exist right now for police accountability. So first there are the criminal indictments and criminal cases. There are a lot of reasons why it's hard to indict an agent of the law police officer. No officers have relationships with the other officers that investigate them. With the process Those who rely on their statements- theirs,

inherent legitimacy and credibility for these involve investigators. In the word of the officer that their investigating even with investigations done by outside agencies there still might not be an indictment and some, The facts are just hard to establish. There isn't always video footage available for some there's a juries is well police office. Still carries some inherit legitimacy because of their role federal standards in law, too, are also just hard to meet. Prove beyond reasonable doubt that they acted wilfully to deprive them of their civil rights and if the their feared for their life, a subjective standard, that's legitimate defence. These are incredibly hard standards to meet for criminal accountability, family can bring civil suits that It damages which don't bring a loved one, but it's something

and sometimes in negotiations like brianna tailors family dead. They can also get and jumped of relief, some structural reforms there are also challenges in civil litigation like qualified immunity, which makes it harder to find that officers are liable. is also a tool that was created in ninety ninety four after another wave of unrest nationally like what we are seeing today and that a patent or practice investigation The civil rights division of the department of justice is authorized to do, and used to be a really important tool for the department of justice. They were initially authorized after the officers who beat broadening king were acquitted in state court. Two of them are found guilty in federal court and sentenced to prison terms and com. Where's held hearings on how to address please misconduct and had actually prevented, and so

the civil rights division of informal justice has conducted more than seventy investigations of law enforcement agencies and these instigations, look at whether the entirety of the agency is systematically depriving people of their costs national rights and other rights in federal law, and if they are, then the department of justice negotiates remo is to say those violations from occurring and to prevent them from happening again, and these are comprehensive, during the obama administration. There were twenty five investigations that were opened and that led to comprehensive consent, decrees in cleveland, newark, new jersey, albuquerque, new mexico, seattle, new orleans, ferguson, puerto rico, baltimore. During the drop administration, the sections opened one investigation and there have been no conception.

And we're seeing similar problems, serious problems there, department wide in louisville in minnesota, Canosa, the patter patterson instigations not solve everything, they can't prevent almost conduct, but they do create transparent and responsive police departments, and they required, germans to collect data on office activity, so that officer activity can actually be managed and they can report about the public and have conversations about one needs to change. Moving forward the places where we need policy changes, but it sounds like also what you're talking about is just. We need better people in these positions that there are tools that are available that are not being used and we had a department of justice that was interested in these problems. We could do absolutely absolutely. The message that this department has sent from the very beginning is that it is not interested in constraining police departments and that imposition on please departments. Even if it is to protect

People civil rights is too much of an intrusion and These are local issues, except that way. And the last administration released a report of pattern or practice investigation of the chicago police department, the Illinois attorney general wanted to pursue a consent decree this department of justice intervened and follow the statement event saying that that should not happen. So local trawl, except when it doesn't agree. So Last question you know were also facing the impact of with bitter ginsburg death on the court. As we look to fight trumps domination impotent they had seats if we went in november. What are some of the that's you see an even more conservative quarter, six report, as relates to issues around policing soup Higher cases by the supreme court have already given us the protections that police officers.

Have today like qualified immunity and also the discretion that they have in enforcing the laws like being able to use pretext stops to stop people you know. The concern is that the spirits is up whoo, most experienced police misconduct and excessive force and unjust, I'd stops that those will be disregarded. Favor of an agenda that doesn't see the rights of people who are impacted by police or doesn't place significant importance in them, Being cima, thank you so much for your time, things or talk to us about these issues and I think your work at the legal and education defence on, of course, take we come back. We're gonna play gay, week. Wisdom listeners about recent pulling about the most persuasive arguments for Joe button Don't go anywhere, there's more of love it or leave it coming up, love it or leave it is brought to you by blue

just tell me about your ultimate lifehack love. It skull blinkers wow, it's blanket man, what isn't it blinkers? their look everyday, their churning out new books are writer, but every day get closer to death. That means every there's, more books and every day, less time to read. Em I don't make the rules are right. More books last time you have a solution, I did it until blinkers. guess in the how to deal with impending they do death, here's what they do. They got them. They got those nonprofit books with a red cover and black letters and black letters and red covers they got them rolling, the assembly: why are they have names like unleashed and dumb? The forgetting killing linked in Europe? surviving jackson making time. I can't that's about it and brought the point. Is europe

What are these non profit making them? Nonprofit arrogance? Oh! No! fiction: nonfiction, nonfiction books, mote, look, here's the thing: if books are nonprofit, if they were for profit, there'd be more of them and more! You know what I mean. Look it's not a time for books, it's time for tweets. This is the thing they take these big thick things filled with words called books and a slim down into something digestible, so you can find out what was in them, but not have to read them. How cool is that, then, when you're on a you know a phone call with your your your ex girlfriend from high school and she's like what up to, and you can say. Oh I just read this book and I was in you're smarter than you were back then at least you appear to be. It works in your phone, your tablet or your web browser blinkers takes. The best can take away the need to know information from thousands of nonfiction books and condensers them down to just fifteen minutes that you can read or listen to successful people like business leaders is re. Lots of books.

Link, as is made for you you, you can be just as good as those business leaders reading books that are better than yield fancy people with their degrees, their money. What has happened but fucked up people. Reading books cover to cover their. You don't have diver that shit blinkers comes in swoops in their their real pages pages, go and buy pages gone by things are moving their missing stuff. That's It shows the stream, not you. You got fifteen minutes boom, now. You know what's in one to share old sandra books and the otherwise you wouldn't hear some of the most read books in politics that are real. How to be right in a world gone wrong by James o brien everything trump touches dies, that's my rick Wilson, the education of bread cabinet by robin programming and kate kelly

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but there are a lot of people out there, real genuine people who do not know how they are going to vote. So we joined a crooked with change research to pull over three thousand newer, infrequent voters in the six closest battleground states, arizona, florida, michigan, north carolina, pennsylvania wisconsin. This pulls out a lot of interesting things, including what messages are breaking through and what these low information voters are getting out of the current debate and we want a quiz to politically obsessed, love it or leave it listeners. Ok, in a game calling polar coaster. Ok- let's be really cool about this in just try to understand how to reach these possible voters and not bring all of our baggage to it, because we ve been sucked into politics for years, and we can understand not knowing at this point, but it's up to us to be open and figure. It out addition. So here to join us, we have called me high, coolby blue and we have samantha high samantha high samantha, wherein where the country right now, I am a new york, terrific

state of you adopted. I have adopted pennsylvania, nice, kobe guess, where you right now Denver denver. And what state of you adopted? Wisconsin, nice nice. Are you both ready to play the game. Here's how works! I will ask a series of questions and you will each have to guess answers that serve. Goes that saying one of one of you will win and one of you will lose for the questions that are in the style of family feud questions you'll, each guess until someone guesses, the top answer will alternates for everything else. It's pretty self expand sorry. Are you ready? Yes, okay, question one out of one thousand forty six respondents where the top for most common reasons, people are voting for donald trump. This november, I will start with you samantha publicans cobby aboard no samantha, No him already know what for the reasons people gave for why their voting predominantly on religion,

no come on. Samantha. You got this. What are some reasons? People want, Donald trump to be president guy guns, no, not guns, but good thinking. Thinking number two was law and order. number two, but Domini. Give you one chance to over the number one reason people gave her voting for donald trump economy. How is it you gotta samantha? You stole and one westward and got a right unquestionably, one first one goes to cement the question: do we asked over twenty five hundred respond? for one word that describes Joe Biden. What was the most common answer? Samantha because you got last one I'll start with you now, kobe dependable. Close, but no samantha, emphatic no getting colder only now samantha slow.

No trust come on getting so warm can so samantha europe, honest, he got it, you got it, you got it After cobia health helped feel like me, there it a real As worthy honest close. There was a team effort, I'm givin it above you question three: we the same question about donald trump. What was the most common answer? Cobia over the ridge. Now noxious just a these, common answers. You would give strong. Yes, it's really strong. You got it. You got it now out of twelve million forty by respondents over the top for most common reasons, people

our voting for Joe Biden this november he's are new and infrequent voters to get rid of trouble. You got it number four was get rid of tromp number three he's not trump We're too, he is not tromp number one not drop now did more people described donald trump as patriotic or race. And unfortunately, gonna go with patriotic call me when you think he hoped borne primarily racist. It was a tie, it was a tie. you're sweet question six, we surveyed undecided voters on what message they found most persuasive. What were the three most persuasive issues to get people to go from undecided to supporting Joe Biden crowd of area the co and have the hand. I know the outcome The economy was the number to provide a message. This message was persuasive. Donald trump says the economy is great, because the stock market is up, but he wants

at medicare, medicate and so security to on tax cuts for the rich Joe Biden says, economy depends on a strong middle class and wants only the wealthiest one percent to pay more in taxes. That was the number two most persuasive arguments meant samantha. What I think the most the number one most persuasive was environment. That was number three, the number three was proposes. This is interesting. Number three most persuasive argument was on climate. As a merry in space, unprecedented wildfires hurricanes in floods. Donald trump calls climate change a hopes and is making it easier for big business to pollute the air and water. Joe Biden has a bold plan to fight climate change that will produce cleaner, air, cleaner water and five million new manufacturing and technology jobs coolby, you can win the whole thing. What was the most persuasive issue argument? gotta be stability. Now talk of shit, you know everything. How can you got it? You got it. It was healthcare,

I'll drive, wants to eliminate protections for pre existing conditions and take away health insurance for millions while Joe Biden, once you have all americans the choice to unroll in a medicare like insurance plan and bring down the cost of prescription drugs either say. I think you both did great, but call me I'm givin it just a man. I thought I was dead. but here is the good news in his paul there's some bad news, and there are some good news. The bad news is obviously we do see that some of these right wing messages to break through and to have an impact in undecided voters who, in a lot of cases, just don't like both candidates, have ever one thing that was hopeful on this is that there are a lot of people out there that do just want to learn more about Joe Biden and they are persuadable when you tell them what Joe Biden policies will actually do on issues like climate, the economy and healthcare, so that I think with something reassuring

samantha colby. You did such a great job. Thank you for joining us. What is something you're going to do to help democrats win in the next few days? Colby you go first, what he got, what he, what you you you make reading texts you make him cause. I've been search. Thinking has actually ended up right now. It s replies and tax on tax baking, euro, asking during the third ought to do this. Then I see that I have some passages: gainers, our guy you're. After what this bill butterfly and people listening at home. I just don't think people understand that that call me has a giant had a curly hair, which I really appreciate, and some kind of a ban, some kind of attitude, and what am I looking at here- defend its abandon its a rolled up and data in your in denver very, very colorado vibes. I have noted your cousins bitterer so and they are in great thanks called me. I think you do and grandma going now, going anywhere Samantha our. What are you to do the same thing causing tax money? You know what am. I woke, your both winners. Frankly, kobe samantha

thank you so much for joining us? This is great eggs. Brigida. You thanks to copying mantha for joining us. We come back, will end on a high note, don't go anywhere, love it or leave. It is more on the wet love it or leave. It is brought to you by better help is something ending you from achieving your goals. You bet you bet. You bet the fact that they married lindsey grams, conscious with John Mccain, woe and one of the one sunday has been bothering me. Can I say women have a conscience. I was in a recent funeral, I'm not saying it was one of the best consciences out there. I'm not saying it was a conscience we could count on, but whatever, was left of. It went down the ground, a conscience we encounter kind of sounds like a blinkers book itself. Oh my god.

My conscience. We can count on that's not yet. That sounds like gum Eric, swallows campaign, but so are Eric. I apologize Just missed congressman's haven't we're just getting the first person. I thought if I could have said bullock anyway, We all need therapy, including you listener, better help, it's a facilitating great therapeutic matches. They make it easy and free to change answers if needed? The services available for clients worldwide and its more affordable in traditional offline counselling, they even offer financial aid. There is a broad range of expertise available which may not be locally available in many areas. They offer licence professional councillors. I specialize in depression, anger, stress, anxiety, relationships, sleeping and trauma, in fact, so many people been using better help that they are recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states. You can schedule weekly, videophone sessions all without ever having to sit in an uncomfortable waiting room, the services both convenient and affordable and anything you share as confidential. We

I need to start living a happier life today as a listener. You'll get ten percent off your first month, but is getting better help. Dot com, slash love. It join over one million people taking charge of their mental health. Again, that's better help. H e l, p, better help dot com, so love it gets on therapy, get pretending it only therapy just get it. Our back, because we all needed we hear it is this week's hyena submitted by our listeners. I love that lie ahead of the week that I got my best friend network reassured about

let's save america and and she registered on there and we just finished a printing on finance sending in her application. So yeah, I'm super excited and really kinda think he's hi John. This is christie from Houston, texas, and my high note is that my husband and I apply to be poll workers because we figured that they were really needed this year and I just got a message saying that they had so many overwhelming coworker applications that there are not going to be able to please everyone and that we need to be patient because we're overwhelmed if the system is too many people wanting to work the polls on election day. So that was really good to hear he let it. This is jessica calling from aurora illinois a main thing that gave me hope this week is my dad who is really practical guy boomer loaded gnp for his entire life up till twenty. Sixteen is now officially registered Democrat and he from

me that he would first bank for general and I just sell it up, and he said he had yet and then the next day he tells me that he was signed up and gone through so he's in wisconsin. So that's a good sign right right. Thank you. Hi, mother, my name's maria and I'm from bellingham washington. My hang out this week is I adopted florida awhile ago and then chipping away at calls and texts, and this week I shared the hands of the state website with a coworker, and I don't have a very activated network of friends and family, but she sent the link out to fifteen of her friends and family and they all signed up, and I just still have a really encouraging and gives me hope- and I've been texting everyday anyway

if you're doing and keep it up, inspiring us to see and have a great week thanks. Everybody who submitted a high note this week. If you want to leave us a message about something that gave you hope you can call us at four two. Four, three, four one, four one: nine three. There are thirty eight days until the election sign up for vote, save america right now to elect Joe Biden and kamala harris hold the house when the Senate and elect democrats up and down the ballot. Thank you to Cara brown, pj vogt, ne chima and everyone who called in thank you to everyone out there, volunteering and calling and texting and donating it spending every waking moment trying to win this election. Thank you to the campaign. Staffers. There are thirty. Eight days left so have a great weekend and let's go win this fucking thing, love it or leave it as a cricket media production. It is raining produced by me. John love. It increasingly here as the iceberg, our head writer and the person whose gender reveal party started the fire travis herwig jostling

kaufman, polygon, Allen and Peter Miller are the writers are says. Producer is sydney rat bill. Lance is our editor and kyle segment. Is our sound engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by sure sure, thanks where designers, jesse, Mclean and jamie skill for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see, because this is a podcast and you are digital producers, normal coney and milo Kim for filming and editing video each week. So you can.