Looking to make your search bar cast, Is sam Harris just a note to say that if you're hearing this not currently honour, subscriber feet. We here in the first part of this conversation in order to access full episodes of making sense, podcast you'll need to subscribe. sam herriston work. There you'll find or private rss feed to add to your favorite pot catcher along with others. Subscriber only content. We don't run ads on the podcast and therefore it's made possible entirely through the support of our subscribers. So if you enjoy What we're doing here, please consider becoming one o came.

While the last episode on guns and gun violence caused some consternation, especially for people outside of the? U s. Listening from Europe or canada, australia, how they, I have more to say on the topic. It seems that term clearly articulated in that I was recommending policies far more restrictive than Anyone in the gun safety community in the united states was insufficient to spare me the wrath of those of you who think we should just scrap the second amendment and confiscate all firearms, if any of you see a path towards doing that, will then by all means describe that path. May honestly, there have to be five million people, for whom gun ownership is basically a religion

so unless we're going to fight a civil war with these people to confiscate their guns, I really don't see any hope there graham, and I briefly discussed the possibility of a one trillion dollar buyback of guns. I'm pretty sure that would be a non starter for a variety of reasons, We need more from me on that topic. My original article, the riddle of the gun, is there and its in podcast form he an episode. Nineteen okay! Well today, speaking with judd, jerk capital charges, award, winning director and produce screenwriter author and comedian, who is one of the most prolific comedic minds. We have he recently co, directed along with Michael bonfiglio and produced

the age be oh to porthos, humanity, George Carl and american dream. He also reason the author to book, which is in new york times best seller titled sicker in the head, which is a collection of energy. Is with fellow giants in comedy and he is out ridden directed or at least produced some of your favorite comedies and fell. Anyway. This is a wide ranging conversation about chose career. in kommeni how he views society at large questions of fame and success, advice for other creative people and other topics, I found a lot of fun. I hope you enjoy it. And I bring you shot appetite. here with joy capital. Jive thanks are joining great to be here. Finally, is only taken two decades or more

actually have a conversation, because you and I sat across the table, from one another at our mutual friend, brent foresters wedding, because the only time I am aware of hanging out with you is there in my forgetting some time. I think that was it other than a drive by in the neighborhood, but I remember that wedding very well and brent is an old old friend here oh here where the original writers of the bend stiller show, and we also work together on love. And so we share an intimacy, we're not intimate with each other. But we're intimate with the same man and that's approximate, Causa speaking in addition to one you bringing out tat a documentary, That was great. All talk about, I would just remind people of who you are and and the kind of thing Who do you are? I am you are known for you seen and often writing indirect in some extraordinarily funny films? This is forty knocked up the forty year old virgin, walk hard act

man. Super bad mozart is, are all gesture hilarious movies and have also done affair. Out of television. Going all the way back to where you guessed it was. The bends. Teller show your first tv. I urge you to submit before that. That was the first thing I did before that I wrote for people and produce some stand specials, so I did some writing and produced roseanne roseanne special and I worked on Jim, carry special in the early nineties, but the fur c b series was the best sellers schedule on fox right right now, I'll be interested to know how you first started but term I suggested your filmography here also now includes documentaries, of which I have seen two. I do you ve done others, but you you, you had the zen diaries of garish handling the came out a couple years ago, which was really great, and then you have this new one on hbo, George Carl, into can dream which we will talk

a little bit, I think people she just go see it, but damn albion should know what your experience of carlin was brought down before we go there. Let's go to the beginning, have had you start. do seen a special for roseanne and what was your first foothold? Well, I I used to if you comedians in highschool from my high school radio station, just as a way to meet them and ask them how they do it and that led to finding the courage to try to just stand up during my senior year of high school on long island, and then I went to usa cinema school, where I would book comedy at the school and then started booking a club and getting on stage which led to getting in at the improv and doing a lot stand up there and then allow my friend started. Meeting jokes and a lot of arenas wouldn't right, jokes for other people, but I the money, and I thought that was a fun thing to do. Is I dislike hanging around with comedians and then solely people started getting spent

shows like tom, arnold in roseanne and Jim carry. I did it at a pregame show to Paul Simon in central park. For Dennis miller, and then I met then stiller and we came up with an idea for a sketch- showed that lead to me veering away from doing stand up and focusing more on writing for a long time. I went back into stanhope about eight years ago, but I at the time I stopped, because I just thought well, the world is pulling me in this direction for some reason, so just follow it. Did you go to usa as an undergraduate or was at a graduate school and film? It was undergraduate. I was seven ten years old, I know what I was doing. I just saw all my notes in storage facility from class and it was every. I should know right now, but still don't know the notes about making movies. But-

was the only major that seemed close to carmody or stand up. I studied screen, writing ran out of money about a year and a half in and then when full time into the head up. Just because I could the ford you see any longer. So you know you want to go on a comedy at the first possible moment. That's pretty interesting, and it s a hooker who'll who isn't. It and the that point where we comedy history is weak. Hears agnes was richard prior, they ve most famous comedian, the world at that point or well, I'm about the exact same ages. You so what was at last forget when I wanted eddie murphy become the most, maybe Comedian wait! Wait what he heard that put us! That's right, nineteen, eighty one: ok where eddie murphy really hit, and so yeah, that's our sweet spot. That's thirteen! Fourteen satellite live hit when we were eight so then Steve Martin came on the heels of that, and that was the earth

richard prior and monty python and mary tyler morn, bob new heart and mash, and all the family I grew up on, and so comedy was when I was attracted to its how I saw the world. I obviously goes into George carlin, but he was a hitting hard them in the mid seventies and it was my way of processing. I mean just how weird life is so weird the world is, our families are, there are schools and I must have been hostile eyes. I looked back and I must have an angry and enjoyed the the avatar of a furious people, even if it was the marks brothers. Not I just like that someone was calling out all the bullshit and it was a way of figuring out how to look at the world. As you know, something that in a lot of ways was scary and ridiculous

Did you know Carlin at any point, or is this just stay? This documentary just register a labour of love that has some more abstract than the one you did with the garish handling, also the garish handling. Obviously you knew quite well and that really comes through in the film Was there any overlap between you and current? Why individual problem for canadian television in the early nineties, nineties and I had gone to work on new sats. But I didn't know what all I knew his daughter Kelly and when I was asked to do this. I am a new Kelly little bit at the time through Gary shambling, my first thought was you: don't ruin this man's life having its it? It is pretty scary to put these things together, because in a lot of ways it becomes the the main public record of their entire life, and if you do a terrible job and we ve seen document, is it don't work?

may change people's perception of this person has really nervous about it, especially because I didn't know him, and I wondered if, through talking to relatives and friends and looking at the footage you could capture this, can you really capture the vibe of a person's I'm so habited kelly loves the documentary, because that is a thing that drive We might terror of doing it wrong. I don't know I might have had a stroke in the interim. I like I wash the documentary it a couple weeks ago I dont member, did you put footage if you're canadian tv interview of him in it. No, it was a one interview. I could not find I'm such a harder. I saved everything, but you know what I think it was a bad interview. I was very young. I think other people did much better interviews with him that I did not mean abandoning cute

to see me there you're, but I think it wasn't very good, but I remember being very clear and kind, and what was certainly in it in that that early nineties phase, where he started getting very dark and very political and have a special called a jam and in new york around that time and a lot of the bits of people are quoting about a boy. Ocean and other issues came from that special yeah. It was interesting to see what a prisoner of the available formats he was in the beginning was too in all those variety shows, and then it was fastened to see how he had to two muscle his way out of all that it was, I think, of you, a simple path back and if you were a comedian when he started there were no comedy club, so you're you were performing at night clubs, usually with her a singer, I mean he got fired from the playboy club for talking about vietnam

if this is a playboy club in wisconsin and the bill was him and bette midler and that's what the shows were like and if you wanted to get famous, you had to go on. These variety shows- and they were very you- know, conservative for the most part, people weren't very edgy. They didn't challenge the audience politically. It was pretty soft and I think he really was a clean. Shaven well behaved comedian, trying to slip some things in. And they're like the hippy debbie, whether man abysses in finding a way to act, stone on tv and the six. These then do that kind of a bit, but then I think, as the country was having a lot of problems in the war, was, was getting more and more intense and the counter culture moving hit. He thought I don't play for everybody's parents are yet either he jumped out of my crowd. Is the people that I don't want it to be? I wanna be talking to the people are changing the world and he had to.

Take some chance as a sort of cursing onstage and getting more political choice is not getting fired for it and also later arrested for it. And finally, we grew his hair and eyes beard and just made a very conscious choice to not be the guy he was before and he was making a lot of money. I mean they said he was making twelve grand a week in vegas when he got fired for cursing on stage the frontier hotel, that's insane money for one thousand, nine hundred and sixty nine and to then switch to colleges and and coffee houses, I'm sure he'd didn't really badly for for a long time and that it was important to him, and I think that inspired a lot of other comedians to be themselves on stage and to me more often

the deck. It is amazing to reflect on the fact that, just a few decades ago, you could get arrested for saying something off color on stage that's yeah. We talk a lot about cancel culture and abridgement of free speech, or you know, attitudes that would would lead to such a bridgeman and air, but it really was watching. The documentary was a bit of a shock to realize. I had forgotten that a few short years ago, he literally the other cops, would show up and drag you off stage that it seems, is just that somehow seems impossible. Yeah. We hear about l, Lenny bruce getting arrested, and you wonder what that was about, and I think Lenny Bruce thought it was about the fact that he talked about the church and that they used obscenity laws as a way to punish him for doing bits about the church. He had this very famous bid, called god incorporated where he would

you that's catch the where he played all the characters, and it was the head of every denomination talking about how business was going like stock owners meeting or if you know, a board meeting of the company and the company being religion, and he went after religion pretty hard. So he went to in a certain sense These he would get arrested for cursing on stage, but they said it was a way to just victimize him for his stances and he spent a lot of. They know the end of his life fighting those things in court and he was a drug addict at the time and died of an overdose but really lost himself in that bad all

would stay on stage. Reading the transcripts a lump. It looks in the movie lenny with doesn't happen, but it was a pretty tragic affair and it does. We argue it was less about the cursing that it was about. Speaking out against organised religion is Lenny, bruce still funny I spend long time since I've watched any of his stand up. But I remember going back at some point and trying to find. What was funny and coming up short as Emma judges miss his genius. You, you didn't like Dwight eisenhower better Some people have hidden land from becoming ages really badly for most people have you ever do you draw any lessons from Adam is? Is there comedy that you think we'll be truly time? Was that stand a chance of? in absolutely hilarious. Fifty years from now, or are you continually surprised and

disappointed to find that you are your findings duffy. You, you know you were you thought something was hilarious and now it is decidedly, I saw even on funny to an embarrassing degree to you now yeah I ate sir, it's only a victim of changing times changing values in a lenny bruce? You know he was a hipster comic. It was connected to like jazz clubs, certain way of speaking at the time. No one did the way he did it and he was very bold in a way very few people, other than maybe more saul was, and if you listen to the records, you almost have to listen to them through the filter of history and think about when he did it to really appreciated. There certainly are things that are very funny, but also it it's a style that doesn't resonate anymore for the most part, but they are. There is some funny someone you probably the dig through a bunch of things, to get too at the things that were shocking, then or not shocking

it all now. Rent a lot of references are to things of the time, but it is pretty hard to be funny in the long run like for me like. I could watch wc fields and really laugh. I think some of the charlie chaplin stuff in the buster Keaton stuff can be hilarious. You're the the marx brothers make me laugh a lot with standup, though it ages out pretty quickly and even people that we love like say bill hicks. who was in it in the style of Karl and to a certain extent his stuff was maybe more about that moment. He had more references, and so it ages where george current, given that many references to things like reagan in the sandinistas. He would do it here and there, but he tried to talk about the big issue, what we make of abortion. What do you make of dark money in politics

or big pharma and drug laws and as a result, it doesn't age. Because he's asking the larger question yeah, I was surprised to learn. Just how much drugs and alcohol derailed him? It was in this cocaine for him and I guess alcohol for his wife, but minette. They really had a precarious existence there for awhile and a it was a. It was easy to see. They could have been just total casualties of the lifestyle they had created at one point, but then they kind of pull themselves out of a nosedive mean part of the the story is about. He met his wife in nineteen sixty and had a

baby Kelly shortly after and he went on the road and he didn't have much money and he would leave you know three weeks at a time six weeks at a time and his wife Brenda didn't get to pursue her dreams. She is she had to stay home now as part of the EU. The culture it would was like a marriage was built around what she wanted to do professionally, and I think he wanted her to stay.

Home because he wasn't home and I think it broke her spirit and a lot of the story is, is about her becoming addicted to alcohol. As a result of that, I'm sure there are other reasons as well and then he was, I think, a pot smoker from the time he was in junior high school and at some point that turned into a hallucinogen which he's he said was part of his transformation to his new style of comedy, and then it was also cocaine which it seems like was somehow connected to an obsessive, compulsive disorder. He had an obsession with words and language and, and maybe

had some sort of attention deficit, but he was self medicating for the back that I don't think people thought they were going to die from cocaine. They they looked at it differently. People started dying being later than that. People are more aware of the danger and he would go on three day bender six days without sleep and there's tapes in the document which on him just screaming and singing, and it's a little bit terrifying and that's what kelly group in this house where near her parents are really at war with each other. There is an enormous amount of addiction, and strangely thank god. They they both got sober. I think George still probably did some things throughout his life, but for the most part they were sober and were able to find each other again and it's kind of a mere

call it. They were able to do that here. He got surprisingly nihilistic toward the end of his life at an office was when he was still having problems with drugs or that or even if this was when he was sober, and it is just the shadow that was cast over the rest of his life, but there there's a quote. He and I think if memory serves, as might have been one of his new handwritten notes that you show in the in the dock where he says you can't care what happens

be really funny and by Karin what happens there? He seemed to me, like you know whether that the species the human species gets wiped out. Oriana suffers any other kind of cataclysm and he seemed to be to reduce. Do you think he was honestly expressing his psychological and ethical world view at that point, or do you think it was just kind of a analysed and adaptation he was? He was putting on four commedia occur or rhetorical affect well. I think it was a comedy asian? It certainly was a comedic stance, but I think the more you exaggerate the funny you are the angry. You are the funny you are,

that's why there's a lot of angry people out of opinionated people, I mean he had a five different sections to his career. Many kept changing what he was doing. He started out in the comedy team that was a little bit political than he did a pretty soft solo act and then he went and became a heavy anne, and when hard against authority became a real critical thinker, then he softened again does he had like a heart attack and even thought I can make myself so crazy. I'm gonna die from being this stressed out, and then he saw SAM kennison. Any thought I'd want to breed this guy's dust and he tried to become a better writer and a better comic and out kennison candidate

in a way and then he became very political, but the last phase was that phase that people debate, because he started saying: there's no hope for the human race. I'm just gonna watch it as a spectator and I'm going to enjoy the show. As this comes a part, and I always took it as getting so dark that your basically say Two people I'm trying to be funny, but things are terrible and I doubt it'll get fix in my lifetime. If you're smart, you would fix it, but get aben for me, so I'm just going to enjoy the madness of this reality in the human race and the disaster they ve made of it, and he did say that underneath there, the syndic have you scratch. A cynic. You'll find a disappointed, ideal us and I think he is. He was disappointed in the opportunity that the human race had he would joke about how beautiful the world was nature,

We decided to build malls, hinges, walk inside these malls and that we were just screwing everything up and hurting each other and how ridiculous we are, and I think he thought it was aid need to call it all out and but under either. I think he never wanted anyone to get hurt or suffer. I think it was just final scream of someone who is saddened by some of the things that we all do well anyway, all I can do is sir recommended people watch both parts of the dock because it just him an amazing tour through his career and also just in time capsule experience of justice that period and streets is fascinating. How do you think about your career at this point? How much much your life has spent writing verses, actually making movies verses, doing the business of making movies and had you have a sense of how many days a year you're here you ve, got

a camera rolling and how many days a year, you're just facing a blank sheet of paper Well, a lot of directing is writing and trying to get some together to direct, so I usually direct every two or three years and in between produce some television and do some documentaries. I do not have this. Book sicker in the head, which is interviews with a lot of comedians. You know I enjoy like the historian aspect of it. Now and it's you know, I get pulled in different directions. I I try to just be very open and do What I'm passionate about in that moment, there's no real logic to the courier other Then, if I have a good idea, I think well, I'm being pushed to make a movie with e davidson and I'm interested in the world. The fire fighters and everything that peat went through is a sign of someone who lost their life and nine eleven, so that suddenly might occupy me for three years and where I'm just try.

to figure out, how to tell that story appropriately and then in the aftermath of it, I might just go well. Now is a good time to make the, but carlin documentary is up as a form of healing and recovering and switching to a different skill. You know when I'm at a gas- and it almost fills up my tank to think about someone else's career and their work and organizing away to tell that story. and they writing the book and intervene comedians. No, if I take two years, an interview, Sasha baron cohen, Margaret Cho and amber rapid and all these people. I learned from talking to them, and It makes me excited about taking another risk, because the movies are the big risk if they don't do now, it hurts happened. You know you're, really good years of your life on something which is an experiment. Every movies, an experiment it might not work and you do have to steal yourself for the switch

and hope that they know you pull it off here. How much of your experience of having too many irons in the fire or something close, too many, where you're you're bouncing between projects and a tree. Aging your attention or or how much it is. You are just having actually figured out a cadence send it workflow that really is really optimize where and just gonna move from project a project to end without a sense of having taken on too many commitments, There is a never ending the struggle to figure that out miss early in my career, I tried to write a movie and do nothing but right this one movie, I thought I'd be like James brooks allowed to spend several years on one fought, and then I finished it, and no one wanted to make that point, and I felt like I just wasted like two or three years, so I guess I need to have a couple of things go at the same time, and usually people only want to deal with one every once in a while. A few things are happening at the same

but the main moment when I was really busy was after the forty old version was a hit. We had written a lotta movies. And developed a lotta movies at no one wanted to make and thence. Suddenly airborne was like. Oh, we get what you're doing now so we'll make pineapple express and super and my card, and and forgetting Sarah Marshall, like suddenly all just where it's- and that was a a terrifying moment, but I was lucky because I was working with teams of people, incredible directors and writers like Seth and Evan and gregg metal and David Gordon, green and jason segel that they were so incredible that we were able to. You know avoid disaster when suddenly, there clearly was too much going on, but that was just the result of being

so out of work that we just kept riding another movie and I kept thinking was just write another one at some point. Some was going to. Let us make one of these and then you know we got lucky that they were like okay. Well, we'll make it now cuz superbad. We were trying to get that made for forever. I mean it was six or seven years when we were trying to convince people that that would be a good idea. And then suddenly people thought. Oh, I think we get your style now and then they said. Okay, what is it from outside? It seems like A fair amount of improvisation is there how much is is on on book and how much is just you lead in these. These very talented, comedic actor free will for a while and hoping you cash something you know it depends. I know I remember you set rogan and having over road super bad and we can go

Im going to make it so we kept doing table reads of it and they would punch it up and we do another table read and they would punched up and still no one would make it and then, when we shot at everyone, talked about how much improv was in it and Jonah, I think thought others so much in private, and I remember we all look at the the shooting script afterwards and realise that it wasn't there much improv in it. I think it was such a great loose sat that it felt like a lot more but other movies. I think when I direct, I encourage more of that. I just enjoy that process of seeing if something incredible can happen, that you don't see, I mean it with the movie. I just did for netflix the bubble. You know we did an enormous amount of improvisation and I think some of the great moments in movies like knocked up or the foiled virgin were from letting people know they had a lot of rope and people like craig rob.

Open send as the door man unless a man like they couldn't take. It really have a moment like we know we would have a great scrap that we could pigeons of lines. But if you just said I just go out at you know where, where you have to go, here's a Here's be, let's see what happens. Someone would do something so funny that you didn't see coming that you. I was always happy that I gave him that opportunity as a very funny seen. So when did you start working with lay your wife in film or was the first person whom she was in whether the first, but we did together was the cable guy and you know that was a wild movie, because at the time you know Jim carrey it was just exploding was the biggest comedy star in the world. He got paid a lot of money for it. There was a lot of attention

and Jim told everybody that he wanted to do something different. He didn't want people to think he was gonna just make super hard commies like gazed ventura every time, and this was a darker satire, and so when it came out, we took kind of a beating, even though it did pretty well financially and do what they were hoping it would do, but it was Jim laying down the gauntlet to save the world you're, not gonna. Pigeonhole may in any went on to do the truman show any journals, angina spotless mine, but we took a little of it. A bit of a hit has, we were shocked. To see him go dark and then- and now you know it's a few decades later and that's what are the movies that really held up over time, because it's pretty pure to ban and gems vision of what they want that to be so that was the first I'm less,

then I work together and then I don't think we work together again till we did the forty year old virgin when she played nikki was like the bad date who was drinking but Steve Carell. Yeah you're at movies, west, less clear in my memory. But up- and this is forty- you know I don't when I last saw them, but she is so funny on camera. I agree and ended in a real and co writer of most of those ideas and and scenes it's a real collaboration as we try to figure out those types of stories here now scrap it. Is that you Tat an unalloyed good to be working with your fair. You, you have your daughters and some your movies to and until you may have a full, a full showbiz family. Now is that just jam a pure guilty pleasure to be able to collaborate with your family or is there any aspect of that which is a tightrope walk, while the big

getting I like to work with my kids when they very little movies like knocked up because I didn't want to work with other peoples. Kids, I just I was happy to have my kids around and then you don't have to worry about the parents of the kids. You could just have them, they are so a lot of that work is a strapping them into a chair and putting bacon in front of them You know they would just relax and throw the malign here there. They would improvise here and there, but over the course of a bunch of movies, they really learned how to act, and now they ve done ridiculously strong more than that show euphoria and iris adjusting the bubble that we did an end. really fun to see them, learn the crap and in a very slow way, without a lot of pressure, because we would just do this together every few years and I

I mean, I think it's fun. I like the business I liked being creative, so I always encouraged it. Sometimes I wonder if I encouraged dentistry, would they have gone in? That direction? Did I you know, steer them too much just might, pure love of it. I think a film where leslie as castors a dentist offers a lot of comic potential at her fairly terrifying to picture. So I am my wife and I just learned that we are probably terrible parents for having allowed, are? Thirteen year old, daughter to watch euphoria, we haven't seen it. We don't know what the horrors she's been exposed and but all of her friends seen it. Apparently we were just religious browbeaten to the point of fine. You know you can either watch it, and then we were at a dinner party. A wherewi confess this and were greeted by looks of actual horror on the part of grownups who had seen.

the euphoria, I don't know how you just now guilty. Your daughter is for producing that point: if they were the the most extreme scenes in there, but how much of a lapse of I meant was that to expose a thirteen year old to where you find its findings. I've thought about this issue a lot, because, when you're apparent now we are just at war with the phone you at war with them being a new to them, exploring. What's on me, internet without you and for a lotta years and their little. You think you can stop it and then there's this moment, I think most people, it happens when they start junior high near and they convince you that they can handle a phone, and you want them that before because you just want to know where they are here I get is so you basically lose the battle of content of what they watched the moment. You would like to control them with your gps or that they always can find you, and I think what you know. What am I fearful of them? Seeing

on the internet, because if I was thirteen, there is no scenario where I would miss anything, and I think we all fool ourselves and Leave that they're not seeing the things were afraid of them, seeing because maybe we took their phone away, but every one of their friends has access to everything in the world. Basically, so my philosophy has always been. I will discourage what I don't want them to see as much as I can, but I do want the relationship where they know they can tell me what they saw and we can talk about it if they are if they are ashamed or they think they are get real trouble. They'll never go. What was that scene about and what are they doing? and why, and I think we ll go makers. I realise what that's that's, why

their hopefully smart is is we we had an open place where we can talk about it, as euphoria is basically about traumatized kids allow them having drug problems are acting out or acting out sexually, and it's really a beautiful story It's about how it affects them, affects them negatively in the ways that they try to heal and the ways that they struggle and thought he did a pretty remarkable job over the two seasons of telling that story, which is very personal to them, The creator owed them levinson, but certainly, and put it on and lose their minds and like for me, I've never seen the movie kids yeah movie there has he remembered, I guess I'm so afraid of seeing its. I get, I get it, but I think kids can process it and understand it more than parents can, Yet within a lesson she seemed to be drawn from, it is not a path. Positive one with respect to drugs,

and I wasn't perceiving- or at least as far as I could tell she wasn't receiving much in there that was normative or desirable. It was just a sense of how deranged people's lives can get by picking the wrong relationships and taking the wrong substances, and so it it there was a. There was a nice kind of kind of conservative. Message being imparted. I think, but term still. I have not laid eyes on it. from our lawyers and and psychiatry stiff.

But I'm going to worry about right like when. I could see something like that, such as you have seen where, like drugs creed, a nightmare for somebody, do they get that? Does it make them go? I dont want to do that. I was always the person. I did think that my grandfather produced janis Joplin first album mario at our house, they always talked about janis joplin was a tragic figure because she was the most talented person in the world who was addicted to drugs and she died and so from birth. It was I don't new drugs or your wind up like janis Joplin, that was the jochen, the first episode of freaks and geeks. When he says you don't have an agenda javelin she's dead. That was my family run, you don't let it worked like it worked for me, but you do always wondered. Are my kids picking up those

I suggest mangoes a moment in monterrey pop where we're just Joplin takes a stage end and it s the first moment or some of the people, some of the problem and people in the audience were getting exposed to her. It seemed like I just have his memory of I think it was like mama, cass and copy paste. Has that look in her eyes where she's, just kind of says, wow holy shit? You know this is unbelievable. Yeah but a great documentary, hats and a time capsule, let's just amazing, elegant and there's a grey jabba shop and documentary out there to from middle or interested in such things. I'm obsessed all those documentaries, when what someone pulls up an amazing documentary like the george Harrison documentary other bob dylan documentary, I'm so happy new year. so how are you view in the world at this point? What are you I know you're you're, a fairly active on twitter. I get the sense that you might be left of me on

Few points I dont know how familiar you are with my various heresies but is there anything we we worry about differently is ernie. Was the view of this motion History appetite house yeah why I get worried, probably most out the intersection of technology in money, What right, if you'd like to continue listening to this conversation, you'll need to subscribe sam herriston work once you do. You'll get access to full length, episode of the making sense podcast, along with other subscriber, only content, including bonus episodes and Amy. Yes and the conversations I've been having on the waking up at the makings has podcast his ad free and relies thailand on listener support and you can subscribe now at sam harris org,

the