Welcome to the Mccarthy report re, Rich Lowry, discuss with Annie Mccarthy, the latest legal and national security is this week to Chauvin trial and the Matt Gaetz craziness you're listening to a national review podcast, if Ulysses Podcast and ask of you, cam would like to have you but it'd be easier. If you and better for us, you made as part of your feet at any of the streaming services out there, but Spotify Itunes, and please give this podcast and Andy Mccarthy the glowing indeed gushing five star reviews they deserve on Itunes, and now without further Ado. I welcome this very podcast through the miracle of zoom, none other than any Mccarthy they require any area. I'm good its opening day.

I always feel like whenever opening day comes back around its like thank God and yeah, Yeah so there were seven minutes away from me and I guess it's a one o five. So about ten minutes away from the Yankee First First patches record low, but for one here On Thursday, but you gotta wait an additional seven hours. Sir. If you have a nice day tonight, alarm, that's ok, made the weather weather is in New York. It's it's to bear the ideas I didn't open, like Monday, we had the gorgeous whether again the days run together, but dumb it's great to have it back. That's the Mets sidelined. You're, the first are. You could say a matter for the finance the first time in a long while the financial, punched or lack of it like a death. They sign up yet

ten years. Three hundred and forty one million dollars Arthur, wrap your relations with the Arab Eurocrat yeah, the last three or four years, but have begun and good. Until then All right, so any you been posting multiple times day about the Chauvelin murder trial, so give give us year, gave us you're opening presence here. Nettled diagram, yeah enriched this is really one the worst trials. I never seen I've been in some really ugly, miles that involved ugly fact patterns. This one is just I mean you just want to be angry at everyone as you go through it you know that you're going to. Why did the police

like they had to handle on the way that they handled them even other some explanations for that that have come to the fore this week and I keep thinking the thing that you're not allowed to say out loud, which is this La Floyd's fault, I mean, if you just gotta, to the car which is all they wanted him to do? he wouldn't another. None of this would have happened, while the other shelving would argue that he would probably have died because of the young. The drugs ingested in in combination with his other problems. That's a big part of the defence- and I Think rich also that begin And maybe people are further ahead, but on this than I am, but I think you begin to understand why, happened here I wonder whether they ll be able to prove it, which is.

in this twenty nineteen arrest of Floyd. That way, what about a little bit last week, where they say that he echoed a lot of the things that he did this time around city couldn't breathe called for his mother. That sort of stuff. I read a little more about the incident. and it seems what happened. Is they come into custody over a fairly minor matter. and he managed to get out by. Ingesting some drugs that that put him in a dangerous position medically and carrying on in a way that made them. I think conclude that just wasn't worth going through The whole process is over what was really a piddling, I think, was a drum arrest, but it was a It was a minor matter and he got out

by carrying on and by manipulating is the condition and by doing some of the things that you did on this occasion? And I it is not unreasonable to think tat. He may thought that, by carrying on the way he carried on the police would just say you know look. This is not worth it over twenty dollar counterfeit bill He was thinking that clearly I would you may not have it. I think that's good for for the reason that we talked about last week now the job, He's gonna let some of the evidence about the matter twenty nineteen arrest in. But so far at least he's not give a let in the port where. Floyd is saying he wants. His mother is complaining about not being able to two were breed and other medical conditions

fourth, the plan right now as he's not gonna, what tat it and because the police who in the twenty nineteen arrest or not the police, the same police and the twenty twenty arrest, though they had They had no reason to have it, background in that they have to deal with the most. They find him so forward. George, you say: he's got a light in the business about how we try to manipulate is physical condition by you. drugs, because he thinks that's relevant, but I the whole thing may be relevant. stand. The concern about you know propensity, and you can't like though we judge what happened this time because of what happened last time, but I do think that what happened here. Is it I think this is relevant. Is this it wants to take the position that Floyd

what he was saying? dying there. Killing me, I can't breathe can't breathe day in the in the legal sense of fear, say this: I want you to accept those statements, but the two of the matter asserted that That is that he really was dying, that he really couldn't breathe. Because of the good me on the neck and the evidence is gonna show it's already showing but he was saying those things before the knee was on the neck right and near the same things that he said the last time and I think it's reasonable to think that he thought that he could get at it. it's just by young making up, General. brouhaha out of it, the young

It still no matter where, no matter what you think in the in the sense of, if you think that you cannot up explain what went on here and why it doesn't really make the story any better, because shouldn't have done what he did and they it looks to me like shouldn't done what they did. So it's just a bit an ugly case, yeah self. Should we go into wicked circle back on the defence opening the open, but go to what I was gonna talk about? Is the highly emotional and sympathetic nature of the eye, witness testimony of had a number these people breakdown that they said you? They can't stop thinking about it and if they they done something more or differently, and we even given that the clerk in the store exception

You know, as is counterfeit twenty. Could you just once? Did it due to a favour, as he says, firm for Floyd? he'll be taken out of his his his ward and that's policy when he accept that money in Attica, thanks a second thoughts about it and tells US manager, and then this whole thing unfolds. for his eyes and an Floyd ends up dead just out how guilty feels about that by what? How much is this count, your home to the matter, How much more does eyewitness testimony affect yours if its emotional, as opposed to other schist tunnel, stated cold blooded lay well. Here's why I think it matters in this case more than the usual case, you're right, you just articulated is the kind of thing that happens in a lot of trials, where

the one side or the other of the litigation will push the envelope in in trying to get sympathetic witnesses in front of the jury. Who really don't have any relevant to add your, or at least the sympathetic overkill of their testimony, doesnt really add anything to the fact that the jury have to decide, and I think juries occur, good at siphoning out what's relevant from? What's just designed to talk on, therefore explain The reason this cases different is the main nine minutes and twenty nine seconds that the prosecution, the focus on. If you're the jury, you can't just watch that watching yet in conjunction with the car in theory of the bystanders, dont know everything that the police, new and war

involved in everything the police was were involved with with Floyd? prior to that nine minutes and twenty nine seconds. So I it's very hard for the jury to watch. What's happening without thinking about the commentary of the bystanders were yelling at the police for over doing it so meet many being influenced by the bystanders view that the Coptic. A guy correct, and then you bring those same bystanders in to testify and you plenty you're, not instead of just playing the tapes for the jury instead of the recordings what you do you, should giving the jury the recordings stopping at every now and then for the witness to say what we are doing here. What were you thinking here that sort of thing so that the jury? The witnesses, personal subjective reaction becomes

of the jury's first experience of seeing right what they have to what they have to judge. And I think rich yesterday in particular, this is we're talking Thursday, so Wednesday. This was like into an extreme and tomorrow absurd extent, when they, Called a witness named Macmillan whose sixty one year, all guy describes himself kind of the neighborhood nosey body, he's driving around cut foods, which is worth while this action takes place. and he happens upon, the police arresting flyin and trying to get him into the car so. he totals over to where the police trying to get him in the car, and he said you didn't. He didn't go into personal details, but he said in his experience because he's

had some interactions with the police. Work stay, put the costs on you it's over and as he kept saying you can't win, though wait? You have nothing to do what you submit and get in the car and look do what they have to do and if it turns out that they don't have a case that we'll get work down right there. No point fighting with the police once you have the handcuffs, I'm fine. Here's what's going on at that point and the background here is the state has been telling everyone. The only thing that matters in the cases. Ninety nine right- that nine minutes and twenty nine seconds were floyd- played out on the street. Well,. It's not all that matters as the different pointed out to them. You know There is a lot more to this than that. There is a whole series of things that happened before that happen, that that way on Wallace, so.

Yesterday on Wednesday after spending the first few days of the trial on that nine minutes and twenty nine seconds the state. Finally, An end to be evidence of what happen before the nine minutes and twenty nine seconds, and That's the evidence that the state would prefer the jury didn't think about so much. rather than just play that evidence by the way which they didn't want to prevent this evidence they presented. because they know if they don't the defences gonna presented and it look like the prosecution tried to hide it. So that's why they're going with it but rather than just play it for the jury to see it they had Macmillan, whose very sympathetic to fraud Floyd now what he saw as the These were trying to put Floyd in the car and all of a sudden at does you get,

the key moment in the video where the squad car starts to to Korea While I went back and were what is its very clear: that flag is vital Lee resisting arrest. At that moment,. I met million suddenly starts to weep uncontrollably on the stand, and the prosecutor, Erin Eldridge, who used to be a Justice department lawyer, says to basically You ok, are you all right? Do you think you can carry on she The judge for a time out, so she can bring war or to one he's grabbing up from a box of Kleenex Liberal, lion sobbing into the kleenex and jabbing his nose and having his eyes it's all very emotional and you're. It Your attention is riveted semester, Macmillan having this,

down on the stand in the meantime, the only thing that matters is the evidence. His reaction to the evidence is unimportant before the cases concerned What matters is is going on in the bed at that point, which is that Floyd is resisting arrest and he's doing it in a very physical way, so once They finally got Macmillan kind of calm down question the prosecutor asked- is here You tell us what you're feeling in this moment that has utterly not is a completely prejudicial question to ask, and it puts Nelson, who is the defence lawyer, impossible position in the jury, because he doesn't want to look like a horse ass who doesn't care and doesn't have feeling for what Macmillan is going through and you know it

a tortured soul. Yeah. You ve had, one after another. After another of these witnesses come up in saving which they had done more. They wish they could only have helped George Floyd war. They wish they had had the courage to help George Floyd WAR, so but the first floor doesn't want I'll look like he doesn't care that Macmillan is going through this emotional thing but in the meantime, what matters to the case is Floyd sense of arrest. That's the that's the importance of this evidence, so what the process she is doing in connection with em, instead, they are not hoping the jury's going to focus on as much as the nine minutes and twenty nine seconds. is, instead of just preventing it, at least at the beginning. They presented it through the eyes of witnesses who were sympathetic to the Floyd, in the hope that the jury will what I think.

have it will more ways and eight with the jury? What that what the witnesses were going through and feeling than what the actual evidence was so another witness who cried on the stand is Donald Williams, who was there is deserved? Martial arts and structure saw was happening and call the police were immediately afterwards setting it killed this guy. They killed him and he was the word phrase. Tat was right: any blood choke had set so so he'd he he testifies at yet it they just kill them with their with any on the neck, but he also contrast cross examination

method that you can be out and then come back when, when you been subject to a chokehold yeah, I think rich. This was an example. You see this quite a lot actually of a witness who wasn't completely prepared for how he might be cross examined, and he clearly was not trying to give testimony. That would be helpful to sharpen the he thought that the defence lawyer was just kind of walking him through his career, mixed martial arts, and I should back up and say this is a witness- was very who juices very ambiguous because he's an eyewitness, that's what the relevance of this testimony is an they try to use them as an expert witten

In mixed, martial arts, or more precisely, an expert witness in what it's like to be checked and the judge basically tell them, you know, look he's a fact witness seized on an expert witness, but they the judge, also let them delve into this area of what he knows about being knocked out, and he did testify that in his mixed martial arts experience that he has been knocked out that he had they may have knocked other people out. He certainly has watched matches where people were knocked out, so he did give them a little bit of. He gave the prosecution some help,

on the Czech. Although I don't really think that's gonna be very helpful for the prosecution, because they're going to rely on use of force experts they're, not in this case, is not going to rise and fall on what the met the mixed Marshall acts. Guy said about the job, on the other hand, while was being cross examined, he was asked, have you ever seen a situation, martial arts where somebody gets goes unconscious. They fade into unconsciousness after a charcoal. And then they come to when they want to start fighting again, and Obviously he didn't realize he was helping children with this, but his response was. I not only seen that it happened to me. I was choked

I didn't even come to really didn't realize I had come to until I was in the locker room and as soon as I came to, I wanted to get up and start fighting than they had to tell me the fighting in unity the year, the match, was over and this is essential to show its defence, because. What they want to show is that between the way Floyd VI, silently resisted arrest in the back of the car, and his drug use they. It was reasonable for them to worry that he might come to, and suddenly start fighting and. They haven't been able to control him, which was why he was on the street in the first place. one of the things that was very important about the testimony

of how he got of what happened in within this one. Car was not only your flight is six point four and two hundred and twenty three pounds according to the autopsy report, and as you ve got to see these videos yesterday, it was clear that he's very powerful and these he's for police officers grown men who are trained in how to deal with people who resist arrest. Fishing in pulling for all they were worth were not able to maintain him in the back of the car one of the things that is by the way, that's bad for the prosecution on this is we learn that reason. Floyd was split out on the street in a prime position is because he wanted to be out on the street lying down rather than the car, so the cops didn't want him in a strong position on the street. He put himself in one

and may restrained him from the position he put himself in. They didn't put himself an opposition position. They wanted him in the car so what Chauvelin wants to show is that this guy was so out of control, but so big and strong that if he had come to which sometimes people do had been knocked out there you they lose consciousness. Suddenly they regained consciousness And if he had done that, and been able to control them in the car? So maybe they wouldn't be able controlling out on the streets of that's where he wants to go out with his defence

so, that's why I think that testimony was helpful, for I think, on balance, you no doubt witnesses a good witness for the for the government, but he certainly scored some points for the defence. So now let's go back, and so you have erred Nelson s name their defence lawyer right Chancellor, so you think he had a pretty good opening and why what what are his Travis points? Well, he made it clear to the jury. He was, he was short, which is always good. I mean you can These are you gonna get yourself in trouble. If you start saying things that tell you don't need to say he,

He had a hard job because the prosecution played that very moving tee in the in the opening, which is not usual ritually. Opening statements are about descriptions of what the jury's gonna hear. You not usually get to play the evidence in front of them ugly, serious, it's not in evidence for this is just supposed to be commentary on what the evidence is gonna, be. But the judge let the compliance, so that made the job for the defense, obviously much harder, but what he made Clear was that there were two size, the story and the they were going to hear that Floyd, thus the rest and that the cause of death was not the choking on the street. It was courting, arrhythmia and basically says cardiac arrest, theatre, arrhythmia occurring on account of on high.

tension, coronary disease ingest drugs, methamphetamine and, in fact, now and so on. That's a direct Walt from the medical records, so yeah he kept it two things that are gonna come up in the evidence and other wise did. What defence lawyers should do which say, which is to say the two sides to every story in the government, has the burden of proof and much more. You can do that, so he didn't die from the children. well that's what the big issue in the cases and ends porn. The reason why I think the prosecutor, it is going to have some difficulty is their kind on from there. An inner contradiction in what they're doing with respect to expert testimony, so

Aside from the nine minutes, twenty nine seconds tape, a blast of one flaw, It is laid out on the street. The cops are involved in them. he tells the jury. There's gonna be three other important kinds of evidence in the case with this testimony expert testimony about use of force. an expert testimony about causation which byword he meant the medical condition Floyd within and according to what Jerry Blackwell, who is the prosecutor, delivered the opening statement, which I think, by the way he's got a very nice man or the very good job, but tells the jury. You don't look this cases be a slam. Don't decision after you here or use of force exports when you hear this authoritative expert testimony you're going be convinced that the kind of whole,

the direct Chauvelin used here is answer. mostly not permitted. In these circumstances- and he will, We hammered the expert testimony. The importance of expert testimony help authoritative would be then into causation, and he said And we're gonna have these medical experts and you don't want. This is really all about the I test when it comes the causation trust your eyes, trust what you see, trust the tape so another other words. What's And he knows this, which is why he's gonna set up away for the journey to think about. It is the export testimony is not harmonious with respect to what caused Floyd's, death. So there is some experts who say yes absolutely the so called there was. recreation. That's what did it

and then there's other expert testimony that say well, you know this. This heart condition is a problem and the sentinel uses a problem. And there's a man offence in all their that could children normal person to the point where the ass, a Cuba has to say in his opening You know that such a thing is tolerance and George, Lloyd had been an elite drug user for such a long time that he has built up a level of tolerance to what would kill a note. person wouldn't have kill him. If you prosecutor and you haven't make arguments like that. That's a problem because you're you basically arguing against your own. I witnessed at your expert testimony, so I Gets it's tough for the prosecution to tell the jury that experts estimate. is crucially important with respect to one thing and don't worry about it. So much with respect to the stuff that doesn't help us as much said, is the medical examiner,

I wonder where the other, whether was it a fixation or is it is a kind of left open that the other causes of death could have been caused by the show. I'll even yeah, there's three different medical examinations here ones. from the military ones from the hand of the county, and one is retained for for purposes of the eggs. A nation, and they are not all on the same age, which is why the prosecutors, so worried about it and another. I think we talked about this before rich, but it is a good time to raise it again, because it's more concrete now this Is why one of the most essential, crucial things in the case is going to be so that has nothing to do with testimony residents. It's going to be the judges GO instructions to the jury at the conclusion of the trial. Because

even if there are differences of opinion between the experts regarding the principal cause of death, as opposed to subsidiary protection causes of death. If the judges instruction to the jury is if what the police did was contribute orally, meaning for tat, even if wasn't, even if other things may have contributed to Floyd demise That would be very good for the prosecution because expertly be almost impossible to say that what the police did didn't have any impact here. Even if you accept the fact that dumb Floyd had these underlying conditions, but its clear from the way Blackwell stole this in his opening that the stated worried about this one, the things he won. You wouldn't. because anything funny about this case, but at one point

well because of his manner. I think he was able to pull this off, but he said. Lloyd, died over courtiers. Pulmonary problem or courtier respiratory problems get exactly the way said it, and he looked at the jury. Let me translate that for you, you know means his heart star and his long stop, which means the yet, opinion, basically is that George, died from every human being in the history of the human race has ever died from his heart tat, his art stopped and his long stop in peace. He put that out. There the kind of a faulty way to save the jury. You know, look you gonna hear a lotta mumbo jumbo from these medical experts. what you have to remember is trust your eyes. Trust you saw that tape? Try how you see the nine minutes and twenty nine seconds, Chauvelin

pressing on this guy's neck. While he starts to speak, speaking Vade, then the speak stops and Paul stops, then the breathing stops and then Floyd is dead. And that's the way they wanted looker right and then finally, you you think first two days were strong for the prosecution third day strong for the fence. Other win, might not be readily parent. Yet your wallet- and it won't be. It's probably isn't as apparent as it should be rich, because what we discussed at the beginning, which is dead, the prosecution so far has tried to present the evidence. That's helpful to the defence through the eyes of eye witnesses who are sympathetic to fly.

But number one. They were unable to do that with respect to everything, the most stone, helpful, graphic video and audio evidence for the defense was the least body cameras and surveillance cameras and the wind, That was just an administrative officer or the police department. He did. He didn't have any role in the case he just like produce the. And, as a result, When that evidence went in wasn't any witness narrating it. The jury was just able see it this is where you get to see fly you don't digging his legs into the young into the back seat of the car pushing one set of cops in one direction and the other set in the other direction, and they just king controlling. So it's not credit

once you ve seen that to say that you want to put the prosecutors been taken, a preposterous position that he didn't resist on the theory that he didn't try to hurt. The police- he was just trying he was. He was just passively not following directions. Well, let's naturally was he was now directions, but he was physically resisting the man he was bigger and stronger than they were. So I think, as the case goes on, How can it be able to show all that evidence through the eyes and with this is sympathetic to fly, and certainly one The fence case comes around and this will be. The big thing will have to watch the next week or two: it shall then himself takes to stand. There's gonna be a united. Europe is gonna, get a very different perspective on this than they ve gotten in the first two days and then final question. When what's time I hear,

we think the trial of land. While the judge told the jury two to four weeks. my impression so far I have watched the London the trial is that term Judge Peter Cato Zone is, is workmanlike, You know they get the jury in there at nine hundred and fifteen nine hundred and thirty every morning, and they said till five in the afternoon and they're moving through stuff, so I think a little further along and I would have figured, but I I think the cases gonna bogged down a little bit on the expert testimony. This will be a real battle and sport and I have to say, which is something that I didn't factor ran because I've never seen a trial like this before in the age of covered that we're see, but. There are a lot of things that just take more time in this case that an unusual case suffer

apple in every trial. I was of renders a witness wrong. You know, and one what does comes, How can we bring the next one here there very concerned about, like making sure somebody's completely out of the room before the next person comes in the room, they had to say the procedure for sidebar as they have linked gum headsets where they, you know, quietly talk to the judge, rather than everybody trots over to the side bar of the. the bench so there's all kinds of little logistical things more more often than you would figure, they have to send the jury and the room so that logistically they can get people in and out. that stuff slows down the works. But I've been impressive for the K horns is keeping a movement. Obviously return to this. One lay pause, really quickly, forget Matt Gates and quick, and our plus plug and our plus did your subscription service at national view,

dot com you your way around our meter pay wall. Your weight, soothe see almost all the ads currently on an arrow disappear when your and our plus member and log in to the website you're way to comment on articles and bought those that floats you both have also to great first time, deals running almost at any given moment. So please check it out and sign up if you haven't all ready so Andy, it would be crazy enough if a congressmen were revealed to the under investigation for allegedly having relationship with and trafficking a seventeen year old, then it would be even crazier if this politician went on a cable tv show and made some was worth while for the Hungarians. That anyone has ever heard. And now

crazier still if at least some element of these allegations made by the congressmen under investigation seem to prove out that's where we are with what the maggots thing. Yet the only thing that has happened yet riches, he hasn't blamed the whole thing on one's Jamie, but I imagine that's therapy carbon at some point. It has to be one of the craziest every we deal with a lot of crazy stories with this one is really crazy. So, let's start with it, the investigation, self It is a true, as I want some answers. Why, therefore, this started when Bull bar was still eighty looks like the reporting indicates that, and I think there is good for us to constantly conclude that that's true rich, because I what's going on here. Is that you don't get? One of those one of the things he said in a way you know he

acted like this was a helpful thing to say, and it was. It was like a stupid thing to say. If you want to you, don't put yourself in a good light, but he said I've been told unjust, the subjective that investigation. I asked the target. but here's the thing, the target, the investigation is the schedule, Joel Bird to summon all county tax collector, whose apparel and and alan- Roger Stones, birds of a feather, but on that obviously started during the Trump Justice Department Desert. Thirty three count indictment, that's been added to in the last few days. Which charges this guy a green bird with sex, Trafficking misuse of a state

add a base is supposedly embezzled. Four hundred thousand dollars in no state tax funds- and he also has a couple of schemes in the indictment for defrauding the corona virus. Small business administration. If so, you don't, if even half a day, this is true even worse, the guy's got big problems but part of that investigation, is sex sex trafficking. This guy is a apparel of Jason's Jason's, taking him to the White House as other pictures out there of gates the together with him and Rodger Stone. So I think when gate says that he's been told he's the subject, not the target of the investigation. We can pretty confidently conclude we're talking about the green burn investigation and let the F B, I was looking hoarded brain bird and you don't go.

Floated into that orbit, and the issue is, but it was according to the allegation that there is at least once nineteen year old girl, one minor girl who he brought across state lines. allegedly for sex, but we should emphasize here he has not been unlike Greame Burg, He has not been charge and there's no indication I've seen that anything that, in the gray bird indictment refers, gates, you know. Sometimes I have like unidentified person are and have been, there's always liked the parlor game of who it is, there's nothing like that with respect to gates that we know I'm so far, but you don't gates, I think he'd like to be Donald Trump, but he's not

and it is very foolish of him to try to carry off the Trump routine that that he can just keep talking and talk his way through these things. So you know so far. What he's what he said is You don't know minors. I haven't been involved with any minors. Now have I taken women across state lines and boy hotel room for them than you know, If you're his lawyer, you go and generous, generous partner, generous borders, generous Borg, stopped. You know he's really he really. What is it that, but apparently that? style, and he thinks he can go off the track routine. It remains. But I think, he's seen a lot of things that could end up being a problem form, but we If we can comfortably assume that this was a Trump Justice Department. I thing at the start. The other thing that's been reported rich, is. That

These two things- one, I think we have already heard about- which is that bar had instituted this policy that if there were police officials who run the Justice Department investigation. He wanted to know about it. And when the reasons you want to know about it everybody said always protecting trot. Now he did wanna be in order graph or anything else with somebody who was under government investigation and it turns out that bark Hansel a meeting he was supposed to have with the House Judiciary Committee after Gates, RSVP Betty was humming a while interesting, though do we know so is the allegation against Green Burg. So it is possible that gates this nice using anything.

Obviously my possible gates had a relationship with the aid of a young woman. They thought was a very agent in wasn't and tourist unit on a trip which would violate sex trafficking lost, but wouldn't be what we think of ass, a sex trafficking. Do we know It was this dreamer accused of more serious sex trafficking in, like legitimately, like luring under aged women into prostitution, and that that kind of thing, I haven't heard a prostitution allegation. I should say I looked a little bit this morning for the for the indictment in Greensburg Greensburg case, and I haven't been able to find it. I should have looked harder, but just didn't get around to it, so I don't want to. I don't want to suggest that I've read the church.

Carefully. But I've read the reports about the charges and the nature of what I understand has been accused of is facilitating the transmission of what we're transportation of under age, girls across state lines, I don't know. I haven't seen anything that links that way: prostitution organization, but implicitly its prostitution type activity, because you're moving people across the Eu State Winesburg for sex right, ok, obviously, but sleaze one way or the other, so we get gates are on Tucker met, making all these seemingly preposterous allegations of an extortion plot to get twenty five million dollars heartless.

Father and LO and behold, it looks like it's true recording on Thursday, in the washing examiner has a produce screenshots of a text and a letter which was like that you ve dealt. We talked about how mafia guys most of them are stupid right. This is like Dumbest letter I have ever set two guys who all behold did get in touch with gaiters Father match with poor gets his father's thinking when he gets his communications, but they do not know of this investigation and they say things have letter about the destination that goes further than the other things had been reported. Who knows? Maybe they're wrong, maybe they're right, it's worth a grand jury has been handled in they refer to Ireland. I won't mention what them once more. Lord out allegation could who knows, but then they say. Look. We don't worry, Mr Gates, when you get your son out of this. What can happen only gives twice.

million dollars when they use it to spring. This, I think, is former FBI agent of former intelligence official who has been held hostage in IRAN, that I believe the CIA thinks and sadly, tragically he's been killed right. These guys say no, we have evidence he he is still alive, but the EU is twenty. Five million dollars pay the random get em out. It's gonna, be everyone's gonna. Be amazed, delighted that this guy's alive now free what we can do is give credit to your sound, the congressmen. He can take all the credit for having done this and Evans me so happy that he did this. That they're gonna forget about this investigation and we promise will ask Joe Biden Pardon your sound, a congressmen, yeah. That is when we first curse. Even some of the details of this just sounded like a completely absurd story. Until I should point out the Washington Post I'd say two things about it: number one:

think I may have said this to you a couple of days ago, gay was so adamant when he was talking to Tucker Carlson that Young back there emails and never text messages and his father had been asked by the EU Di2, where aware wire that I remember thinking that you don't this guy either that happen or this guy is pushing all the troops of the moon The table were like the biggest blossom, a war crime. And lo and behold we do have some of this information now Let me just say- overarching thing, because otherwise I'll just forget to say it, and that is why we have to remember as spam as indignant his mind gauges about this when you extorted the only two. Extortion works, is if you ve done something the exposure of which would embarrass you,

right so the whole engages account, no matter how impressively indignant he was in in making these allegations is, The only way to be a serious extortion against him. Is it is really got something there concern about now that doesn't mean he's guilty? I'm not saying he's guilty, we don't know, but you know the idea that this thing is- is made up in order to carry out the extortion plot is not on its face. Credible, there's gotta be some reason why you get extorted or where you can get exploit and the second thing is with low in the word extortion around. We should note This was not a classic extortion, because but the people who were dealing with the Gates family were now. Saying that if you John

cooperate with us he's going to be charged? They weren't saying, if you don't do it word who were telling you here it was, this was more along the lines of I think fried. in the sense that they they me Have the sense that you don't gaiters, to worry about, maybe they can get the family to you not to pay. This one is characterised by understand correctly at that time in prison for fraud, yes, so one of the guys involved, the three guys been fingered by, gates, as involved one of them but you ve just alluded to the dining Stephen Alford on who is a flaw. the developer, whose previously been convicted of fraud and extortion. In his past and the other two characters were involved or are very interesting. One is the guy that gates most blamed on all this, which discards, David Magee, now Magee.

until about two thousand five he's been out of the government for a while, but I use be a high ranking. I think he was first assistant. U S attorney in war the big offices in Florida in the parlour floor, the gates he's from- and these are people who, like know each other for a long time And the other guy who has been identified as Bob Head? Who is this a former air force, intelligence official who has worked for thee? Levinson family, they ve been trying to get Levinson Adam around since he went missing it. Thousand and they thought had a plan to that can was a key part of to try to get a mountain two thousand and eighteen. They blame the government for that not working. We don't have all details about that Mcgee Importantly, the years been the lawyer for the Levinson family since he's been out in private practice,

and what s interesting about, Magee, where it is when Gate, first made his allegations. If I think was daily, beast that Magee said to you: it's just preposterous It's it's loaded press does nothing to it He just J must know, is about to be indicted, eddies drawn in this direction. And then all of a sudden, these documents to come out and suddenly he tells the Washington Post well, you might had a conversation with Don Gates, the congressman's, father And he said well, but it was only about a guy who is concerned about the trouble his son. Is it and the reason I think that's worth mentioning is: why the emails that gates has produced, Is something that he says his father insisted on having which was a document, It said that he was working for the FBI,

which usually the F B, I won't give you, I mean that a deal just support local community because they want all this to be secret and when they go people like that they don't know what you're going to do with the paper. But they obviously wanted. If this Humans are authentic They wanted John Gates's help investigation. dawn gates is a smart guy. Got a smart lawyer, and he realized. If I'm gonna talk to these people, And have conversations that global b of evidentiary value to the FBI I have to like mad is really in trouble and if they get me, Recorded saying that That will be like it admission that my son has done these terrible things so he wanted something in writing so that he could, possibly say later on that issue said things that bad

cast asked his son in a bad light. He was only doing it in his role as an undercover FBI, source, he wasn't really saying things that were true and now was why he wanted that in writing from the FBI's later on. If it turns out that peace on recording saying that gates really does have criminal exposure problems, he'll be able to say yes, but I was just making that up was. I was an FBI inform and I wasn't saying before because it was true. So What it sounds like happened if this is, if this is the up and up is that they pitch them to get. twenty five million dollars from dawn gates with very wealthy and. The first instalment, was gonna, be about five million dollars. There was it, a clear when

DAWN Gates taught to Magee the lawyer on the phone, but at some point I can reached out to him March sixteenth answer to one. Basically, we know, that man has these problems, that we can make go away and then next day can't meets with with dawn gates and also at the meeting. Is this character, Alfred and that when they given this preposterous document that they call what is it asked the operation, a cameraman operation homecoming. That's when addressing the idea getting Levinson back so presumably they they would have. If everything on the plan as planned, they would have gotten twenty five millions from gates and disappeared. Yet the the original payment, the down payment, was supposed to be five million.

and there's some suggestion that Mickey's role in all this is that the money would have gone into his escrow account because he represents is the Levinson family sort would have gone into his account at his love. now that hasn't been prove, but that's that's b, The gates allegation where these guys fit in and So now we have gates goes public varieties on talk, worries on these other rub other shows What he says is that. when the reason that it got leaked to the New York Times that he These that he was the subject of This investigation was because there was the day they were supposed to get the money. You know the first down payment, then the F B, I would have had these guys in the trick bag and they would have been able to make arrests so gay. He's out there saying

Information about me isn't true. They just made it up in order to stop this, negation where we, with this close to getting these guys with with powerful copper tory evidence. And then the counter against gaiters. Other people are saying: if Really was an investigation by going public, you have blown the investigation so again, crazy story, but yeah both things could be true and it bought, things can also be false, but it could be true. Both that gates hands you no significant potential. Liability will have to see other plays out and let them, but he tried to,

but he became aware of that and try to exploit it to defy him in his family out of some money, but we don't know yet and that the means through which will no more prudently is discontinued. Media reports were, or with the FBI ever speak publicly. That was guy. Well, you know it. It depends on how it if this scheme was what gates represented Me and they were that close to getting a meeting where money was going to be exchanged, then there could be incriminating things on. You know the recordings than that arranged for the for the payment to be made right. So there's always a chance that, even though they didn't get

What happens a lot in investigations? Your hope that you're gonna hit home run and it turns out to be a double yet it doubles good enough. You know in water Is it so they may have you not their evidence may be good enough to show that the scheme happened and if it did, You know we could get arrested. In that case, we could end up finding a lot more about it or it could turn out to be I haven't even seen yet anyway information at the door, been which I thought was a naughty as you did? we haven't seen even yet the tells us that that document documentation is, I think it right on you. Could they say it is often. I could say that we had was bad is as maggots it sang with regard to the extortion scheme are legit starting scheme without effect at all the Justice Department. View of the other

I think it would it could, but only in this sense I mean when you get, if you decide, if they ever were, to recruit gates as cooperating with us. Let's assume for argument, said that the extortion or these the fraudulent scheme happen and that gates has potential criminal exposure If he were to- and this is completely hypothetical we're just like girls that boy here, but if he were, We agree to become a cooperating witness say in the green paper investigation if there be any cooperation in that way if there are other people who have come up in that investigation, that they'd like evidence on. If usually what happens is if you sign up a cooperating witness.

Your obligation as a witness is not just to give. Testimony or or information in one case is to give a complete, truthful. and accurate information. In anything, we ask you about. In further in exchange for that Ties that make cases go away in my office. We used to make people plead guilty, but the idea would be you plug guilty everything and then a few. cooperation was over. We write a favourable motions the judge for you, and you probably get no time with very little time. That sort of thing, so you don't If he was somebody who could be helpful to them, in one or more investigations it. very well effect. What is criminal nobody is, but it's hard for us to judge based on how little we know at the moment. Ok, that's all the time we have. This part gases produced by the incomparable, Sir shitty

I want for listening and thank you and your party anchorage.