It's finally here....the conclusion of our month-long coverage of the West Memphis 3. In this last episode, we talk about Damien, Jason and Jessie's lives in prison, the movement to free them, John Mark Byers and Terry Hobbs' roles in this case and the three's lives outside of prison walls. West of Memphis Dochttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt2130321/https://innocenceproject.org/west-memphis-three-go-free/HBO Paradise Lost 1 The Child Murders at Robin Hood HillsHBO Paradise Lost 2 RevelationsHBO Paradise Lost 3 PurgatoryDevil's Knot by Mara LeverittLife After Death by Damien EcholsDark Spell: Surviving the Sentence by Mara LeverittAlmost Home by Damien EcholsVisit our sponsors!Hunt A KillerRight now, just for our listeners you can go to HuntAKiller.com/Morbid and use promo code MORBID at check out for 20% off your first box. HelloFreshGo to HelloFresh.com/morbid9 and use code morbid9 for 10 free meals including free shippingCauseBoxThe best part is that of course I got my listeners an exclusive discount- go to www.causebox.com/morbid and use the code morbid to get your first box for 30% off- as in you can get your first box worth over $250+ for lessthan $39.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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De Morbihan warranty into the pot lab covered nineteen time morbid. This is not fun. Oh it's not guys, and it's not that beds, we don't even have it that bad, because things still open Vietnam, not leg amalgam, a gun, this is so hard like. I can still get deliveries I can still get. I can still go to target. I really want to have not but wreck. Cooperation there we go get a Starbucks drive through surrounding, not that you know that bad, but it just socks because things are starting to get cancelled and moved in a you know. She they just sucks, I don't I agree. It shows that we were supposed to go to that around my lunch arise, a bunch of shows
By that we were planning on going to add tickets to are now being moved. I had tickets for John to see Lake Street dive for his birthday, Amelia, military under Tabulate, Stasi Schroeder, don't never mind me. We have we are supposed to go to and that's why we drink. This is that I mean first world problems of the highest order. Galloping had still bags owner it sucks. You know. The important thing is that were still here flattening the curve I inside your fuckin house yoni to go anywhere. Lysol your delivery and soon in this wall, be over. I health Latin thy curve, guys who, just by the way quick little side note there. Don't listen to any of these like cures for it or these like things that are being tested as things that are go to stave off or to help you we already have it just don't: listen, stuff until the CDC comes out until it actual scientists in darkness confirm these things. This very wary, and also everybody
Make sure you're, looking at your local, like state police pages, if you can, because as tunnel scams going around. I know there was like some rumour in Massachusetts that people would show by your house and like hazmat, suits and say that to come in and like do a test. Also scandal tie you up and rob you also there's no actual reports of that happening, but it's a rumour that one around so the state police were leg by the way don't let people into your house that are an Haswell zealously. Nobody is coming to your house from the state, so just make so you're pregnant engineer, state police listen to what they have to say, make sure you're. Looking at official pages just be weary. Everybody cause, I don't want anybody getting an inner being hurt or being scammed in this shit, time, while living inside of access, you know just stay. You know corona legit, mocha yeah. Why fuck him snail, internet sales it hard guy. So we do have to announce some of our shows in Kigali. Get you up to date with that, so we
supposed to be of a punchline Kommeni club in Philadelphia on April fourteenth or minutely April fourteenth. We are not going to make it because Corona What we need is being postponed getting our cancelled, we're in the works of getting that rescheduled, zero. it's absolutely being rescheduled, we're just nailing down a date yet, and we actually we have a date. It's just not an absolutely reform efforts official, so we don't really said release it yet, but everything data weeds say is going to be rescheduled. Your tickets are gonna transfer, though we also just no. and no, we can't wait to see you either way, but we wish we were seeing you sooner. I know if you already so yeah if you already have tickets to punchline Kommeni Club, whenever the reset schedule data as why'd you, those tickets will be accepted me. I just hang tigers, will let you know as soon as we now know, right, Romena same thing when the easy improv? That was supposed to be the very next night April, fifteenth. Obviously that's not gonna happen again. Working I'm getting that date set in stone your tickets.
We honoured yup, you take it secular, Vienna, I'd also like wolves and if the dates the new dates, don't work for you. You know reefer. There's something without work. You know, you'll be working out with the actual venues and stuff, but just know that tickets are gonna transfer and new dates are coming. They are not being cancelled, as I have now we're still supposed to go to crime com. I believe that's the first weekend may in crime con as of now is still happening. Let's just leave it at that list is listening to me. You wrote in the universe. I corona just takes a just dips after that. Maybe those different audiences feel later, because I want to come before I go away to and were supposed to be in mad, let Nashville sorry. I skipped over something worse, lesbian, Alabama Alabama. We want to set new yes, at present these are the ones that are still happening. The not postpone the yellow ping, tight mistakes. Huntsville Alabama may seventh, two shows at Xenia in Nashville
to see a Nashville in Alabama June. Second, at the Good Knights Comedy Club and Raleigh North Carolina Raleigh, I think we will definitely see you on that day. Right come on, it's gonna, be out here by then, let's all collectively put it out there June third, the very next night at the comedy zone and Charlotte North Carolina, Hell, yeah, Charlotte ah June, eleventh, we I did this show for all you Chicago people that couldn't come to. The second shall yeah Chicago and others also, and we must show the next day June, twelve that one is sold out by other italian hall carriage. You tell ya, gotta be so. It eighth at the comedy work, South and Greenwood Village Colorado, I'm so excited. I fucking love Colorado. I can't wait to show Alina Colorado. I can't wait for collar. I can't wait to see you. There can't wait and then Angela, eleventh, whereas stay home and maybe take a drive down to the welfare and like put on a shout or something with the wonderful raising Emily, while comics dealings of one Emily Walsh, it's totally worth
she's, amazing and hilarious sand. We are so stoked about all of these show. So again will let you know as soon as we know, information on gas and as soon as everything is updated, are link tree at which is in my vile, Alain as Bio. It's on the website. It's on our personal, all our Skis mayor, Morbid, Instagram, anytime. You click that it should be data as soon as the data Ben reset. Now, if you want it, you know we're gonna update as soon as we count on the podcast, but for like really quick updates. We do our instagram page, our Facebook Twitter. Although the are website a morbid podcast outcome will be updating that as we go so just keep an eye out where gonna see you all just like a regular jumble too. That's all! Well without further ado. Let's listened to the fucking I've us, so I've been quarantining mostly on Alina House system, because I love her. I shall have seen her put in so much work too on,
I think that this is the final part of heart, for I'm. So excited This case has been haunting. My dear Every time I mean she's done she's like all we there's more there's more. I just can't even this. So we're in part four of the West Memphis three case this is the final upon my God. I thought you were about to say that we were. I was like there's no part, I mean I'm a be real with you for you at a daily could taken to abort part five, but I'm in a spare you guys, because I think we all need to move out of this frustrating had stayed here, because you know in a time of covert nineteen. I think we need to get out of this frustrating we need some uplift. A year is a week. We can't be second, this kind of frustration, so part four, it's gotta be a long. One thought it was gonna be ashore one. Definitely not. We are so last night. I ended up watching west of Memphis, which is the Peter Jackson Documentary about this. I am highly recommended. It's really good in the vein.
Paradise lost, but is now and they looked at like forensics after the fact and Dell very hard into one Terry Hobbs, and I think it's really and trusting for you to watch and I think everybody should watch it and then yeah formulate your own opinion. We're not gonna. Tell you our opinion. It's gonna be I think it's gonna be pretty clear what I believe is going to say it in so many words by yak has basically I'm good with being sued by Terry Hobbs, so I'm just Gonna, give you the facts Would the more you will through knows me? You know just take it with a grain of salts in do two well with it. Okay, so let's get started so far as when we last left you guys in part three Damien goes: Jason Baldwin, Jesse, Miss Skelly weren't, just sentenced to very long terms and
prison and daily ass after ridiculous trial right that were rife with inconsistency. Lies, comes dental evidence and just shenanigans, but all around Jesse must Skelly and Jason Baldwin were sentenced to life in prison in Damien echoes, was sentenced to die by lethal injection God. No, I just want to go over quickly. What happened to the three guys after they are put in prison their experiences and can do brief overview. Then we're gonna go into John Mark buyers. Terry Hobbs, we're gonna talk about the people that came forward to help them all back itself. So Jason Baldwin said be sickly, when he heard the guilty verdict, he was in such shock that he said it wouldn't have mattered. If I was sentenced to an hour in prison or my life in prison or sentenced to die, like God, I was dead, like he was like this he's, like can just ruined me because again he went through this
whole thing as believing God would not allow this to happen right and he were innocent. Why would you have been in jail? That's what he thought he was shocked, even though he said he knew that leg. By the way the trial was going, that they were. They were gonna convict him, no matter what Countries, like my still in the back of my mind, was like I'm innocent. They can't to me he actually said quote. The truth was not found out and proclaimed to everyone, and he said that why he said. when they were. When the judge was like, Is there any reason that the sentence should not be carried out and he said because I'm innocent he's That's the only thing he could say because he was like I the truth. and said I had to say I had to just Billy I'm innocent there. I you should have put me imprison forever leg, there's. No other reason understand I didn't realize. Amazon is offering sign on bonuses up to one thousand dollars plus get up to twenty dollars an hour for select roles. The best were hurrying near. You start
to take home something greater new higher wages with a sign on bonus range of real benefits in career growth opportunities in a top rated workplace so, earn more and see how we pay and sign on bonuses can lead to a greater life, for you go Amazon, dot com slash apply Amazon is an equal opportunity employer. Amazon is offering sign on bonuses up to one thousand dollars plus get up to twenty dollars an hour for select roles, the best were hurrying near. You start to take home something greater new, higher wages with a sign on bonus range of real benefits in career growth opportunities in a top rated workplace. So earn more and see how we pay and sign on bonuses can lead to a greater life for you Amazon dot com slash, apply Amazon is an equal opportunity employer. So
The winter after he entered prison. Jason received a letter from a councillor at the juvenile centre, where he and Michael Carson had spent time too Michael Carson Remember was the kid who won on the stand and said he talk to Jason in prison or more spending like four minutes together, and he just spilled the guts to me and tell me that you know he sacked the blue from one kid any put the balls in his mouth, and he said this really graphic ridiculous. statement was like yeah Jason said that to me, meanwhile, look at Jason. You think you fuckin. Something ought actually way calling on the mall. It come on right. So he has like so then it was later distress that discovered that that was untrue. Where will this is when it was discovered? Because Jason received a letter from a councillor at the juvenile centre in this councillor in the letter said that breathing Michael Carson said on that stand was a conversation he had with him. He said he had discussed the case with Michael Carson and he said quite
we were discussing the case in the meeting and I told him what people are saying about the victims and about what was allegedly done to the bodies. This young man went to the police and stated you had confessed those details him, while in detention together, so he told him that was wrong of me. Was so out of life. Never should have talked about that case with him right. I was beyond out of line. I you know I should have been fired like I'm horribly, let our nothing was done well, he said but I need you to know. I was very nervous to come forward with this because obvious, I shouldn't have been speaking to him about this right and I didn't know what to do, and he said, but and I got I couldn't hold it anymore, because I was. I was guilty crazy- that this kid is going to pretend that he was that Jason told him this, so he said This council said he went, two Jason's lawyer and Jason's lawyer, Paul forward. He was like this is what happened Paul for
was like WWW testified that anything then he's no heed. He said yes, I wish I were so. He said I was totally willing to any said, all of a sudden they told me you are not allowed to testify, and he said he didn't know why he wasn't allowed to testify. But he said I was willing the entire was it the judge that said agenda that he can its leg so I can't tell the truth. I was Michael Carson. This Sixteen year old, who told this fantastic all tail with zero witnesses and told me up. This is what he said to me was allowed to test of how we can't rectified what the true now a councillor who sing no, no, I told this kid that, and that is a false, combats, a false testimony. Canopy. Oh, why they exactly Why is this? So? Paul Ford. Once he found this out that this letter came through Paul Ford. Try they get Jason. A new trial began. He did
That's because at one point, during the original trial Judge Burnett had met with full Gamin Davis, privacy privately and so the judge met with full dominant Davis, where the prosecutors aka him before he met with them alone, like off the withered out the other. Without the defence attorney says That's not ok, yeah, especially in a trial like this one. Whenever a meeting like that takes place, it has to include lawyers on both sides in this didn't write, so there was a pretty serious issue and Paul Ford was like we can get new trial based on that rightly doubts that they are they going to prove that they did that. Well, because Judge Burnett admitted that he didn't, you will not deny that he did that. Oh, my god, Not at all, but net was the judge that had to rule on that
so he had to rule on whether his own behaviour was ok or not. Why? Why couldn't this have been brought to? Another judge like why, with because as long as Judge Burnett was the original trial, judging and long seen, even if he was a corrupt judge up because it actually, he ran for, like you, know some political position in Arkansas and they were saying that they were begging that he would get elected to this finishes over. He was taken off the case because if he got it added to that position. He couldn't be trial, judge for this case law, and so they were saying like we were hope it. We would have campaigned for him just to get her eye for this goddamn case too. Of course when looking at his own behaviour and whether or not it was ok that he had this private meeting with full gamin fires like, of course, that's fine you're, not getting a new trial based on that unlike and they could do nothing about it.
This is like slamming your head against a brick wall. We outlined over oh yeah, peace, and this is the thing judge. Burnett was the trial judge through all these appeals, so he just denied every single one of them. Really just denied all trials, denied all any new evidence. He denied everything right as far as he was concerned, that was it they're gonna rotten jail day means gonna die and I'm gonna move on like that was it. and when they were eventually cause. Obviously, they're freed eventually, which will get to but when they were eventually led out. They interview, Judge Burnett NEWS, like I think it's ridiculous, and I did my job I did great know. Many was like this is some like Hollywood shit, but basically that is, as you made this a marker and it's like notices in Hollywood shit, you just looked at your job. That's all like it's ok to admit that you words are not just so. Jason ended up. You know he'd had he went into prison having a really tough time comes more tiny little sixteen year old, rescues, real tiny right
He went in there, people think he's a baby killer, essentially yeah, and he decided that he to just act? Tough toying, skipper PV into, and he said eventually, you know he was able to like work and certain positions in prison and he was able to find some sense of leg. not her I'll, see but like just survival been rightly, and we have just seen Skelly work incarcerated together a few times because it seems to me like there's a couple of pictures of them like in the same Blake prison together. on. So Jesse had a really hard time returned. He did so. He didn't have a hard time in the sense. Damien had a hard time, unlike a whole mother, Galaxy Lever, but Jesse just had a hard time, because He was not you know and at the same intellectual level that his age was so. He was still not understanding any of this right. He just one. The Honduras dad. He thought
again. This was a total slap in the face of him. He had no idea. This was going to happen and he got in trouble a lot going because even on the outside, he was like you ve ever tighter here, yeah like use, OASIS, Fazio people planning done him and were fuckin asshole, a wonderfully hundred percent right, in fact, in one prison photo of him they have like you know they have like the name tag yeah and his as Ms Skelly, but there it says Miss am I assess and then there's like a little space on several callin. So it's like Miss Kelly Ray and I and I dont know. I have no thing that says that that was intentional. But when you look at it to me how it looks like it says, because it was a Kapital K and a space of between eight and to me that someone being index, of course, that just I don't know that just seems like something that would happen them, but he said that He would do things just to get in trouble so that he would be put in solitary
because he said he could finally come his mind, a nice his mind when he was like alone, and he said they ve all three of them said jail, especially death row, where day, meanwhile, again imagined. They said issues constant, nor Is your work? Hey, ass, sub, your mind is just like crazy and so yeah he would want to get some peace and quiet and after a while, though, he was able to control some of this and he got to work in like a prison kitchen. He worked on like an outside like you know some kind of thing outside on wrangle held things in Britain, but he got he was put to work and I think it helped gonna keep his mind a little busier and they did again like find some kind of like way to just survive together being mechanism alma yeah exam please so February nineteenth. Ninety ninety six Jesse's iter these filed an appeal they filed this appeal for seven Supreme Court justices to look at evidence about his confession
so they agreed that these seven justices said yes in trial and Jesse's trial. Originally, the only evidence against him was that convention right, that's it! There was nothing else, they also agreed that they had a that it had a quote, confusing amalgam of time and events and contain end quote numerous inconsistency here. so they agreed all that, but then agreed that it was sufficient for the verdict to remain. Oh, ok, Having son in chief Justice, Bradley, degenerate, Jessen wrote me so he had he had to write his opinion. They all right they're, like various opinions, why they think this he wrote his opinion using Jesse's own statements, but he just kind of They re wrote them to make sense right, of course, which it's like, but that's not how he said them. That's the whole point of this appeal is alike sheriff coherent, narrative to begin with, we wouldn't be appealing nestling. The reason is, it's not coherent. so he said quote
later in the stir human, yes, he said quote later in the statement. He changed the original time to noon and the like their statement. The appellants said that Eccles and Baldwin had come to the Robin Hood area between five and six upon, opting by the officer. He changed that time to seven or eight finally settled on saying that this group arrived at six p m, while the victims arrived near dark, so all of injustices said that that's weird and inconsistent. Obviously, but then they said quote when inconsistency is appear in the evidence we defer to the jury's determination of credibility. So why are we here rates of them the purpose of the jury already said they were guilty. So why are you there exactly causes League wait a second, but the worst saying that the inconsistencies are. What makes this a weird verdict in your seeing the inconsistencies are weird totally, but the jury seventeen diary say guilty, so we just refer back to them. Their mother, Fucker ducklings, like a circle of
not so so, are some so likely said Dan stem kept to the case until the very end- and this was Jesse's now is just lawyer, ok and he argued that he was can, of course, to confess. Obviously, Europe and the justice is basically relate. Yeah external looks like that could have happened, considering his age intelligence and Education Blake, the considering value they, even that the requirement for a voluntary confession was that the state had to convince the court that the statements were voluntary. Now the other way around, but they still said that this was voluntary hooker, even though they did not convince at all right when the fact that Kitchen Ridge used member one get Chillun Ridge had used Erin Mickey son, yeah, Hutchinson, disembodied voice, saying nobody knows but of me or whenever. Why absolutely fuck, into like Ivory Jesse O day said the judge
This is said that that tactic quote gave them pause. End quote, comes perilously close to psychological overbearing, but then said is fine. Ok, so comes real close to be real fact of butter. I just don't lie in how you put your fuckin head on your pillow at night and go to sleep. Knowing that you wine even the fact that the detectives had failed to have Jesse's parent parents or guardian sign his waiver rights, didn't matter to the justices and that's a legal right The G8, the detective literally didn't have a parent or guardian sign that waiver and Jesse was under age at the time. That's legal that all should have been thrown out because of that one thing and they were like- it's too, a kind of moved. This trial, odes, unbelievable and Stick said certain evidentiary items were completely irrelevant and project. Unlike prejudiced towards them,
and the court ignored it and said they were fine and these things like the witchcraft book of Damien Right, what is like what this one does that have to do with the case? Vicky's lying about the spot. A photo Of Jason wearing a black Metallica shirt with a scowl on it, who was evidence a ban teacher and DEN Cinemas, like yeah note like that, It's not. Ok, that's prejudiced and not relevant and its place said the music you taste when that is relevant as fuck. Now I was the official statement for who doesn't really will I sat relevant as far guys. You know I felt I wouldn't even be shocked if that's with racial state- and there was a slight boom seek us any officials, justice opinions. They wrote that eight is a witches number that was in the official thing, but was it nine or was it a? There was a who knows ray. Apparently they said it was a fax for yet he did know well, he just changed has has they saw fit they're just like? Well, you know maybe ten and twenty five and you know what it's like a number. I don't know
so it had come out by that point that doctor priority, the medical examiner had actually changed at the time of death of the boys, from what he thought has again time of death, for this case was really hard to determine right. He thought It was well after midnight now. So now you saying like actually so this vastly far to win Jesse's, suppose it a version of events. Aha in the court said that doesn't matter you Does the desert? Ok, so yeah so Jesse. So that didn't happen. No no new trial happened for him. It's crazy tat they were able to get out of jail. I'm say oh shit like thank God you're, so those two not being able to our easy, so then we come to Damien, who is on death row now He was placed immediately in solitary, oh god. His antidepressants were stopped abruptly, so he went through abruptly
trials you have like seizure can die basically, so he in He had filed complaint saying that he was brutally beaten brutally in repeatedly rape, Togo. By other inmates, he was beaten by guards. He said it was litter, hell he was in solitary for literally like a decade. My card so he wasn't outside of a tiny, concrete sell for like eight to ten years holy shit. And Damien, and I will explain at the end. I will explain how this affected as health when he got out. Aha, so Damien Jason's appeals went about as good as Jesse's. They said everything Judge Burnett did was totally fine and even though the evidence was circumstantial completely, it was totally. Made a need to look at this again, of course listed the fact that Damien was into which is in the courts, and he had a journal that had Penta grooms in it. They said that they are one of the reasons. Was he wore long black coat
even when it was warm that eight The witches number and that it was near pagan holiday and that's it? He was That's so must be satanic and it was there was them will be The finer isn't he said one of the other things that they really harped on cause a really listened that occult expert, quoting quote: that's what the just says, really gallantly law. You utterly confused himself on the yet who living he couldn't even he's had a male in degree and rapidly. Oh yeah, I'm not up here and then They also said that they were very you know they they cited. This is very serious too, that the side is supposedly satanic. Oh, because you know people like before you give people try to make people right handed because I said the left hand was like the devil and right hand, was re, Morley, Christianity and like pure ness, and all that. Well They said that some of the worst injuries were on the left side. So that
we say ten, but that doesn't when the bad. If it was satanic when the bad injuries on the right side, which is the Christians. I write ye because they be going gas that you wouldn't be going against your own, so that doesn't make sense, and no one sitting there being like wait. A second and largely determine not only those probably turtles. Exactly so so the only evidence. They said that was relevant for Jason. Skill was Michael Carson's testimony. Oh, they still hung on to that. And that was literally proven to be bullshit, but they didn't care. They agreed that the trials probably should have been severed. Damien and Jason So there will again, we really should have several babbling hindsight. You know whoops. Is just curling home. You didn't So are you kid you gotta stay there for the rest of your life lad, and they also said bringing animals they, they brought the fact that Damien had animal skulls in his room. He,
He had metal, music posters and witchcraft and a call books, and they said that was totally free. To bring into evidence and totally proved his guilt yeah. totally. So you as you will be at your murders that into a right and it's as you can see at the highest level here there was no help knows just no help. All around so yeah so Damien had an absolutely tat, but he did turn to leg Buddhism in and he goes wrong Bert Damien within ingestion, is very interested in all religions. Right, not just wicker right and see, was so he's suddenly found himself with a lot of time, and so he was steady a ton of Buddhism, he started like meditating for, like eight too too early five to eight hours a day if he would have to analyse, would not surprise being able to use like sitting in meditating that were so
and you know, while their imprison, we all know that the paradise lost documentaries came out the first one in ninety ninety six Bruce enough Ski and Joe Berliner were the ones who made this. They had no idea that we can turn into it. It was they went into this thinking there doing a film about three teenage murders and then turned into like whoa whoa whoa wait a second. This is not It seems they ve. to make those movies until they were free and they did ya- think came out with three, so everybody defiling go watch it because the blow your fuckin, my there We got. A lot of people have said that they weren't and watched him we're like war. Then. Actually some people have said it change their mind. It does it really does and then, if in also again go Lamb Watch West of Memphis Ideal, because that's a really great one, with Peter Jackson at the helm, so definite go see that during this whole time. You know, though,
their paradise lost documentary came out and that's when people the first one and people were like weights no one had heard of the Renault people knew about the case, but now operating relate real, deep way. The second and This is when West Memphis, three dot org was born. Ah this The thing that really kick started, though: free the West Memphis, three move and writer Burke solves, are graphic artists, Cathy back in and Photographer Grove partially, which are just like three great also, I am, A grove and Burke, I just feel like you need to have a band together say: do they are from LOS Angeles, they saw Paradise lost and just couldn't get over it break all three of them. Just couldn't stop talking about em we're like I can't move on from this in
I also realise that they couldn't get a lot of information about the case and they were all dying to know more Cathy, in particular, was like. I need to know, what's going on with this case, so she wrote to the lawyers and heard that nothing had happened for these defendants in them. they were just rotting away in jail right and that appeals had been denied and all this and she was like that's unacceptable. She's like I was horrified. Somebody needs to be done here so actually said he felt like he was like watch the movie in the nose and when it was over, I felt like I missed the part of the movie where they showed me that they were guilty. because illegally was like half of it ended in those like wait, you didn't show me there, else. When I dont understand, did I miss a part of this movie or something and so they were all like. We got to do something so in October, one thousand nine hundred and ninety six. They went to Arkansas the three of them. They went to the crime scene, they went to meet Damian and Jessie, and Jason and prison cuz. They were like. We wanted to get the whole the whole,
picture we want to be in the thick of it seemed that the area talk to some people like really got a feel for it. They to dance Denham and they were absolutely convinced after this that they had been railroad and he s like the document shows Your leg, the documentary showed us that, but we wanted to see for ourselves to make sure right. We weren't being like shown a different side of this whole thing and they felt like it was like everybody else feels it was like Salem level. Hysteria was like almost worse than they really was an after speaking with people in the area they were like. We just can't let them run jail, so this is when they figure that they had to put all of these updates and real evidence onto a website for people to dig into my How could be was the governor at the time. And they were trying to get people to write to him to help move this along dont think that, when real well pry, not really know why, but
they sold mode March on the website. They were reaching out to celebrities, trying to get people just and they were trying to people to be like here look at than what we have put out their run. You make the decision, but if you feel like we feel and get on our side yeah if you dont ceiling by that's fine, the leg, we know that this is the right thing. So their whole thing was they were trying to raise money to get them a new trial. Get evidence liked. Get things tested, Kathy even like took forensic courses. Couple them took like courses in school just to get a better understanding of the whole thing like they went hard. They put discussion, forums on the website. They uploaded documents from the court cases and then would also do interviews with Damien and Jesse and Jason, unlike upload them on their, so people could do like questions and answers while they were imprisoned. That's crazy
That's one of the free, the West Memphis three catchphrase was born. There was like t, shirt, see I've seen they took four and again they they took the courses and they were instrumental in getting this happening. in all three of the guys say like without them. This wouldn't have been. Without them like the paradise lost people and lake Anal, Peter Jackson and all like big names that stepped up till a real at length. John he. Does it any better? Henry Rawlins Natalie means and the Dixie checks they all stepped up. Unwarlike fuck that this is not just as right. So without them definitely wouldn't have gone as far as it did now, while this is all going on likewise since earlier Vicki Hutchison. These occur the weight, ES who said that she went to an a spot with Damien and Jesse and then was like whoops just kidding
She said TAT after the good boys were arrested and put in jail. he's. She said that she constantly called detectives to say that Aaron was interviewed a lot during that whole investigation, her eight euro. Scenario, yes without her. without her It took him in by himself a lot and she wasn't okay with that she's freaking out, He was like. I want to see you and then she said that she thought she should get the reward money, because she said her sons, Disan bodied voice is really what put these three in jail, but the work of the reward money is. Fake. You didn't put the real people in jail, exactly the key, and then she said that these it was something she was kind of a so at first. She was like. I was kind of lying about that because she said did go somewhere that day, but she didn't who's. She went whither what she did because that afternoon of the spot, because the suppose it a spot on her her boyfriend
had broken up with her. So she drank one bottle of wild turkey, but to herself so she said she was essentially blackout. She went somewhere with someone and saw people dressed in black, doing something or maybe he passed on her couch and how to weird fuck injury. Yet she said a little. They were touching each other, so she wanted to go home. She doesn't know who, broader home she doesn't know when or how honey you have had a dream and then she said she woke up on her frontline with a second empty bottle of wild turkey. Next, to her and said after that she admitted I was, is lying. We'll see about that yeah. You were and that's why she said three innocent people behind bars cause you have drunk fuck up exactly and that's when she said that police want it hurt. pretend to go to the spot and all she wanted to say now to Jesse and Damien and Jason was I'm so sorry, yeah, that's not gonna. Do anything! It's like! I don't want your apology, that's the thing and flag. We are already. You are literally just been leg.
sorry. This is like that I, like Nancy, and the seamen the craft where on what's his faces, scientist. Sorry she looked up and then she will she kills and so on Can anybody but like like? I feel that way. That's what you that's what I would have said leg. I want a leg, levitate off the floor, just hurry and say I would levity in front of Vicki, Discreet agreement, an idyllic. How sorry are you now plague Bush? So, yes, that's Vickie. so again we're having multiple things coming Thursday reached today. Key testimony in these trials was all alone. I and people it is coming out in nothing is being done about it because Judge that is like and then I call it is like bear, and it's just like everybody's. Just like washes wiper hands of it, the three blockheads, let's our own dale, who gives a shit. Let me move on and Damien says it
in West of Memphis. You is this really good interviews with him. While he was still on death row he says like? I want to be clear. This is happen, every day we are not a weird case were just getting more attention. Like he's like, this is happening to so many people, love exoskeleton. So true so now we want to mention so we mention a bunch John Mark buyers. Yet who is Chris If her buyers stepped out there, he is two Melissa buyers they were the ones that were very eccentric with the press, John. fires in the documentaries. If anyone whose watch them you will see, being very theatrical, unlike the top which to a lot people was a little eyebrow raising a lot of people like that looks like you are putting on a show and not actually feeling real emotions, but you know.
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well thought he was a suspect from beginning now he as heavy very troubled passed in presence at world level. Right now I don't know I should say present, but recent, ass. He had a troubled life for sure, so the Arkansas Times found then by, had been arrested in nineteen seventy three when he was only sixteen years old because- his parents claimed that he was threatening them with a butcher knife. Oh yeah, ok, now by nineteen eighty seven he he had already been married in divorce. He had two children, you re married to another woman now of four a neighbour of his who was never idead, said that she called the authorities about child abuse on him. Oh no because he said quote, he was whipping Christopher. Who was too at the time.
so badly. I was afraid for his life- oh my god- and this is Christopher buyers when a little less so sad the woman, said that she reported that these this happening tons of times and she also reported it while they were investigating the murders. Could she was like Jesse? You know like those are the kind of person he is and was never asked to testify. That's absolute bullshit never asked assess fibre, so that same year in nineteen eighty seven, he was also arrested and charged with terror mystic threatening because he, salted, his ex wife. Oh, how did he assaulted Ex wife well A neighbor called the police and said she with a little concerned because she heard a woman's screaming. Never saw quote two small kids outside by themselves. The police show up tube the virus home. They found buyers in his Ex wife in the Hall his Ex wife was lying on the floor screaming and buyers
holding an electric shock to viola, go rattling her with it yeah now. Doesn't Melissa. No. This is his ex we're. Ok, now buyers was convicted of terrorist EC, threatening for this protection what are incident- and he said Three years, probation no, as we will see he's like conviction, Proof the star Alabama, just or now Alabama Arkansas Justice system here yeah. So July. Nineteen I knew too. He was arrested by sheriffs deputies in Memphis and charged with felony. Cocaine counts and carrying a weapon. Oh in ninety two. Ninety three here also involved in a huge rolex scam like fraud scam where he's selling like faulty relaxes. He made a ton of money after that and he got caught for that. So Christopher as Biological Father, was a guy named Ricky Murray, and he said that mark
buyers, never officially adopted Christopher, like he claimed, and he was like not that that says anything like he's lying about that right and he said that mark buyers said on the more he poet show after the murders, because they were all on. Those shows that he had picked Melissa buyers up from work the day, the murders, and that was his alibi rise like I picked her up from work and when I came back, we didn't know where you are right. He said he said that I'm so Christopher. His dad said that when he talked to buyers at Christopher Funeral again, he said that he was at court. The Deva murders Ah then, he was aware that you have more stories that so he also said he also told West Memphis three dot, Org, that he didn't think Damien Jason ingesting committed the murders Kristen of course the rights of was like I dont think they did. Oh God, that's all for now Melissa Buyers, Christopher his mother, was also very trouble,
she was like a lifelong heroin addicts, shoes ass. She was addicted to a lot of different things. She was charged with putting it gun to a carpet installers head after he said he would uninstall carpet in their home until the floors were cleaned. Also, she put a gun to his head and told them to do. It seems on rational seems fine. After the trials were moved as after the trials and after that they were, you know, convicted and put in jail, The buyers family moved to Cherokee Village, which was near the Missouri line, but still in Arkansas in September, one thousand, nine hundred and ninety four. They were both arrested because they stole twenty thousand dollars worth of antiques from residence. Nearby wow yep to after this buyers, was arrested again and charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Why he literally full First, two teenagers to knife fight walk,
he literally stood there and forced one teenager to fight another with nigh with knives, and one of those teenagers got seriously injured. All I gotta is adopted, and there were several of there were several witnesses to this and kids that were like. I was like what the hell is going on. He was like don't go near them like this little bit. She needs to get his ass whooped Ivan, who the teen aired is a teenager, a few months later he was charged with hitting a neighbours five year old, so hard that he left bruises this this man now he claims that this little kid was like doing something and he was over for some reason and that he was like. Oh, I just like hit him on the, but with a slice water like really quick, the neighbours I like. No, he had bruises soya, you don't get. Hers is from a either way. You hit my kids with anything, including just like a now. See, look in
ending you so high that your ancestors gonna know about it like, like you're gonna, sit here and say: well, I only hit him with a spice water. Like you hit my chaotic you, mother, Fucker, that's not your kid. Like you hit other people's cared, his your own kids, I'm telling you right now! I will end you. You touch you. I could only do So I'm crazy, I'm buying Ninety nine, before the two, then listen mark. Twelve misdemeanours neighbors had restraining order against them. In the delinquency a minor charge was on mark in the burglary charges before the antiques run, both in its also like hey guys, you are involved in like a higher profile. Murder, you're, not really gonna fly under the rate of the rest of their lives and also my colleague, it's awful that their son was murdered. I'm not make. I bought a lonely anyway, but it's like not our aims in the republic. I right now, when you didn't ask for but maybe don't do the shit, because you're yak, as is like people, are gonna. Tell you exactly end
It's not like the tube. The viruses were leg legs. All shrinking violets like they were loud and boisterous, and very very which they every right to be during the trial to be as loud and angry and, like you know, aggressive as they wanted to be. But it's like you do that know that people are gonna. Remember you from the outer I'll see you can just go stealing twenty thousand dollars worth of antique making people knife wedding, other perils, kids or making two teenagers knife fight: I suspected everybody, disability, ok, what is a framework that way? I avoid people. I augur well- and this is this is sad, and this is a system still an unknown. Does the mystery? Oh shit, so orange. Twenty. Ninth. Ninety. Ninety six, Zoe few years after the murders, the Alec three and militia buyers was found naked and unconscious in their home. At five twenty paeon, oh shit, I didn't know you was immediately pronounced dead at the hospital alike. I never knew that Europe is a mystery because
no trauma was present and they literally couldn't figure out what killed her while now, state police were called in this time and they began. You know they began investigating this and they said they were investigating it as a possible homicide. so they did find injection marks. On top of both of her feet inside her right rests in her upper right through area. Did she o d? They said So a witness said that Melissa was taking delighted in Xanax ha. and they also said the buyers, as were fighting a lot recently and that mark had been cheating on her and had a girlfriend named manned o yikes. Now, in fact, to win this when the police came and searched the home mark was standing outside with his girlfriend Mandy, oh yeah. He also stated that he was worried. He was going to be accused of smothering her. Oh.
either the medical examiner could not determine the manner or cause of death and said that there were plenty of drugs and militias body, but not enough to cause death or an overdose. So they said she did not diving overdose set in. hard to tell if somebody was smothered. It's pretty hard to tell their smothered yes, smothering, is a hard one to do, because it's not the same is strangling you're, not round the marks write to me. It is sick. Upload bought out of thin air. The fact that he offered that information is like woe dude like that, was even on anyone's mine. Always it actually ruled as more they also. So it's still rule ruled as leg the seller is. They found a ton of scars this sad. They found a ton of healed scars on her wrists, so she was honestly having a lot of funny. We really sad have essentially law and they are also found no alcohol and no opiates in her system, but they did find allotted and marijuana hope again. They said
nothing that would have killed her right and they said those injection marks could have been from the hospital while they are trying to revive her early, some of them, but again no outside trauma. Shoes found naked, yeah and AIDS. Just its weird and I think what he said was that they lay down to take a nap and he just woke up, and she was like that. He I doubt that, but so that's weird Ok, that's very weird, so ninety? Ninety seven, a year later, he ended up getting a ton of hot check. it? So that's when you don't have enough money in your bank, but your writing a checking and set brain. Because of his indigent status. He never not charged are punished really because could you say he know that that is a reason. So then, April? Ninety, ninety nine that is so this point April. Ninety nine comes he's had all these charges yeah all these things happening any getting away with it right in April Ninety ninety nine he accident
We dialed a wrong number while making a drug deal. Oh shit, that wrong number was an Arkansas state. Trooper shut the fuck up you coming, they shed. He accidentally called his teacher and made a drug James I drew is literally like writing someone to take it on the side of the road was like alarm. it is this like in so he was like yeah come here. I got the stuff and bull one you like Ok, you, whereas the address I forgot, I didn't write it down and he just gives his address those like ok you ve got a job. I I just put my hand over many how few letter of the law he was arrested. He finally got an eight year sentence that was basically for all the other should too Can you just calm down p, only served fifteen months? Why? Because
life is, you know, Jason and Jesse are like railroaded and spend their whole eighteen years of iranian society caused in Iraq is, and he gets fifteen months so molecular zoo militias parents clean buyers said they were like not contacted all during the investigation. they always thought it was weird. They didn't really know a lot about. It then follow the trial with everything there are like we didn't want to know is just too hard hours days. Claimed that buyers mark buyers beet molasses more than once, and she would have black eyes she would concentrate. He was a violent violet. Sadly, that is the outside. Sadly, it is it's awful this with looking into this between Terry Hobbs and Mark buyers, those poor little boys, because shit they had to deal with from these step. Fathers is beyond
makes me so I can't even it's awful and so Melissa's father said that it was weird that buyers claimed that he came back from somewhere the day of the murders and found just found. The Chris was not home right. That was his original claim, because he said actually Melissa had asked her father that day to stay with Chris after school because he said, can you she said? Can you say with him when he gets off the bus until markets home ah ends He was like ok cool, so he said when I got there. Buyers was home any sense out, heeds vessel buyers, told them. Oh no I'll get Chris from school don't worry about it so used like cool. Ok, so you on how many goes. I regret that every day of amendment that I allow died, ass rob and they also said that Melissa marks. Marriage was in big trouble. We enjoy, and she wanted to divorce him, and he had told her. He would not divorce another woman,
Isn't that real scattering that's ominous, especially with the way she died and again I'm not accusing anyone. He was never found guilty of anything. Her death is still unmarried, a series of again take these facts that I'm giving you and just come to your own conclusion. so. Yes, that's weird, but he was not going to divorce another woman. She was gone we need to stay with her parents, the Friday she died and when he called that day Mark told her that she wasn't feeling good and was resting. In He called later that evening and just said militias dead, that's all my god. He told her parents. She was dead by just saying Maggie up. They said, that's all! That's how he put it. Oh, my God, duchess. Maybe we're barf in ninety. Ninety seven, a friend EC analysed, was brought in to re, examine the case of three boys and he said in regards to Chris buyers. Specifically there was a record that said that
mark buyers reported that he had given Chris quote a whipping with a belts before he went missing awe and he found through. So this expert found three sets of injuries on the backs of Chris Spire right. He said to word not consistent with the battle being an he said. The third set were lacerations that could have been from about, but he said quote, and this is really like this showering get. This is jarring. He said quote because remember it. So he saying I gave Krizzle alight whipping were the belt which now, thing. I'm sure I mean in different parts of the country. That's just happens only in a very different strokes through different folks. I was never with battles, but you know like especially in the south at this time that was very normal by you have not judging so everybody com, calm down, it is what it is.
I'm sure people got weapons in their fine now you can all come now, but you know this was just something he said he gave him. Being with about before he got in his bike and went to play with these kids. So this expert said quote: it is Further the opinion of this examiner that, after having received this set of injuries which tore up in the skin and would have resulted in some severe bleeding victim, would have been unable to walk or ride a bike without incredible pain and discomfort. Awhile you're, telling me that he received this quote light whipping, which tore? open his skin embodies a view only just pop, outside and gone on a bike and rode off with his friends. Right now. I don't think so. That sound right. So that has given people some pause and Another interesting thing is that they had
they went, and they go really into this in West of Memphis. The documentary and more elaborate who wrote devils not really went into this. If you gotta her website, I'll put it in a show notes. She has like I'm very detailed thing about this originally, so they said that they thought a lot of the markings a lot. The ripping things were from turtles, another seat. writings in that water animals but they said there was one thing, especially on Stevie branches. I believe has left eyebrow and his forehead looked like a human bite mark and we- You look at it. It definitely looks like aim and by mark, just like never really touched upon and so they brought it up later and we're like what is this because of frenzy? ontology is a really good. It's almost like fingerprints, re everybody do you think about the time Munsey exactly that, that was like breaking that case right, so they brought that up. It was starting to become out there that they were like. We need to start taking casts of teeth. They took casts of Jason Baldwin Jesse,
Scully amazing faculties, none of their teeth. So then they serving like we should take care of other people's teeth like fuckin mark buyers and Terry. Hobbs over here, well guess what Terry and John Mark buyers in the mid nineties had all their fuckin teeth. Remove your shitting me should not shouldn't you at all and they both had full sets of dentures put in. And lay there are you fucking, canning way forward to tarry Hobbs cause we're going to that next anyway, he later PAM Hobbs. Harry Hobbs is X Y, a high and the mother of Stevie Branch who later said she believes Terry Hobbs did a holy fuck yeah. She found a lock box in their house that had a like pack of cigarettes in it a marble and a set of partial dentures. belonging to tarry Hobbs, and she said why would they be in a lock box unless he didn't want anyone to be able to compare those fucking dentures, because they were partial dentures from when
that shit was happening. Aha, he had those partial dentures. When the murderous occurred right, then he got the rest of his teeth removed and just got a full set adventures. Oh yeah yeah! That's that's weird! Aha! In Mara Lever, it actually details that they had these partial dentures, matched up to that by mark and again and I'm a put the website the page to it in our shone out Scylla for it to good fit. I'm just saying, oh and also biting, light like in the regular Hazel Bundy, but by the biting, tells a lot of the pathology of the person doing this crime right because biting is not something that a lot of people do it's something that biting is rage biting his control and biting is consuming the person that you want like this is something
in a moralistic in that's. Why, like Bundy, it fits him like this like animal, that I can't control himself, and we're way these boys died and, if you know we'll get into the Terry Hobbs things the way that some people think that they died, it makes sense in the fact those Stevie branch. You got button on the race. that's a step farther seems a little ashamed of flame. So now I get a move on to tarry Hobbs. Okay. This is a long one. I'm over our heads I'm overwhelmed with sadness, it's because it is something that happened to three boys. This is like Darwin said this is something that happens to exactly, and we still don't have just for these three, let my link want to cry had so sad things really fuck em, regardless of what happened here. These three little boys died in horrific, nightmarish way and who have been. Rather, it is both out so
November six. Ninety ninety four PAMELA Hobbs said that earlier in the day, Terry Hobbs had beaten her with his fists. She called one of her relatives on night. All this is these people's law. It is that's, isn't that so sad yeah, it's just like playing the day, you're Hoddan was murdered. You will be in the day that Chris buyers was murdered. He was also very Wesley's leg it's just so much violence right. The thing it's like violence was just so prevalent and we're not accustomed to that. Like that's, not how you were, I I mean I wasn't raise violently I'm noise and a very why wasn't, but violence violence not manner? No, and it's like, I was certainly not in again. That's just how my family did. Things of everybody's family does some right and, I must say, banking, in whatever light, that's a very people have their
opinions about. Let's find we just didn't grow up. When you know that's not what you're used to and then it seeking your hearing something to this level ajar, really jar yeah it is, it just is, and it's like, I'm not I'm not telling anybody had apparent earning like that. Of course, this is just how I see things that I don't Personally, my my personal opinion. It's just my pen How could we have is, I will not teach my child That violence is wrong by committing violence against the right idea. I dont think that is a very good way to do it. Let me know some people. It is right to each their own exactly, but on four, but you know what it's never, okay, to beat your spouse. That's not! Never! Never again it sad that that was there lie yeah and it's like. I don't think it's right to be your child either and ask him to say it, but it's definitely arriving in the late. You can't beat your spouse either. So November, six nineteen eighty four panel Hobbs was hit was beaten by Terry Hobbs.
he called one of her relatives and told them. She said she believed her job with broke and that's how far better police said that they did see when they showed up to the same PAMELA Hobbs had bruises on her face in the back of her head only at odd injuries, virtues like concussed bright. So the positive, that she called contacted other relatives and we're like ok, let's go to Fucking Memphis and lets Friday, tenor lottery, knobs good for them they can Terry Hubs and Hobbs said no, and I can talk about this like fuck, you guys and then went out to us and got a three fifty seven Magnum Pistol put it in his back pocket at that point hems brother, Jackie Hicks, came the house and he was like no fucker you're, not leaving like you beat my sister.
and this was before it was this before they knew that the boys had been murdered. This was a year after. Oh, oh, so yeah, it's ninety four, ninety four, so yeah she's a year after I got so a fight started between her brother and Terry Hobbs to her brother got Terry Hobbs on ground in this is when Terry brought out the gun and shot her brother in the island of him yeah? Oh, Hobbs then reportedly pointed the gun at all of the other people there and worth, reddening them, like I'm gonna kill. All of you to which I would believe sounds totally normal. the police came, he was arrested, charged with assault on his wife and aggravated assault on Hicks the brother right. So There is the whole thing that shows you. What kind of and he has a high and then watch was alive Memphis when you see, because I'm a dimension to you later soon, madam he ended up having do a deposition where
because Natalie means from the Dixie checks he sued her over defamation and he lost. and when you see someone like that, you get to open up your whole history, which was a bad idea for Terry Hobbs, because he had sat there and answered all the right.
Liking, it so hectic with kids and work in the day to day craziness, and sometimes I feel like I never actually get a knight to set, and just hang out with John hunted killer, though, gives us the opportunity to have fun work together and investigate crime and the comfort of our own home. We get to sit together. We get to look into scary crimes together in you know what guys it's a really great quarantine, slash self isolation activity, because you get to immerse yourself in a whole case, and you get to be an investigator you, don't I'm shriek and sick a watch and all those two crime, dockside Netflix. Now you get to live one so go. Do it hunted killer, gets you off your phone and thrust you into an ongoing murder, mystery investigation? It is so unique. There's nothing like this out. Their anti killer brings people together by challenging them to decode. Cipher is examined clues and solve puzzles. It's like an escape room, delivered right to your door. Hunter killer has over two thousand reviews on trust, pilot and fast company name them as one of the most innovative entertainment companies of two thousand and nineteen plus part of the proceeds for every box goes to the cold case foundation to help fund cold case investigations and isn't that what were all about guys right now, just for our listeners, you can go to hunt killer, dot com
ash, morbid and use promo code morbid check out for twenty percent off your first box had the hunter killer, dot com, slash morbid for twenty percent off into show your support for our little podcast hunter killer, dot, com, slash morbid: let's hunt a killer, they ask him about the specific incidents and they say you know you: PAM Hobbs. You hit your wife that day in the face he monster in the face he no joke go Watch the documentary I swear, post the clip of because it is bone chilling. They say too many goes, all my he literally laughs in this little snark ie, like I want like you, just want a fuckin place him and lemon and they go. Is that funny? Mister Hobbs and he goes well. You know, like you, talk about it that much it just becomes whatever but he'll it.
Is an environment harry. I hate you. Why a goal that he does? What may say? Did you hit your wife? He goes Cecily nasty little gig on yours like what does far leg. It is evil. Yeah, that's disgusting! So that's crazy, so then also DNA was eventually found in the shoelaces used to tie up the boys. They were able to finally use the dna right. This dance, was hair and it was like tied up in the shoelaces this dna. This hair was a match to tarry Hobbs, trusting what it wasn't a match too was Damien, Ackles, Jason, Baldwin and Jesse Mescaline right. None of their dna was at that scene, but Terry
This was probably because they weren't there well in this also match this. So this particular hair you can see like the dna like a bird typing in everything it is a match on its also. I have to be like write about it. It's a match to one point: five percent of the population is well ok, but it's also a mess. yeah, I mean if you look at the fact that using the euro as an essential, avenant articles, three boys, so why do we use fuckin potential evidence again exist. So I'm just saying that's just the how it is. There was a their hair found on the scene that match to a good friend of Terry. Oh, what a fuckin coincidence David Jacobi, Weird Terry, Hobbs had hung out with David Jacobi the evening of the murders all also coincidental. Now David Jacobi actually contradicted Terry's alibi that he had spent a ton of time with him as home. That night ya, like David Jacobi, came out link best with the salad by a lot, and there are like who the fuck is lying here. Basically, you
and be consistent with where Terry was between five and nine p m big Christmas time frame that they went missing a murder so Here's a couple of the versions, Sir, Terry said that the night of them that they went missing. He searched the neighbourhood with its four year old daughter, Amanda for a bit and he's Dana more. He said he followed her to her home and met up with John Mark buyers in front of his home before six p m. He then said this is when they figured out the three boys were together, now? This doesn't make sense, though, because buyers missing person report that he filed was at eight thirty p m. also buyers filed an affidavit saying he didn't see Terry Hobbs during this time period. As then he said I sat there and I talked to John Mark bars before six p m and marked by his signed in Africa. in saying. No, I did not see him so then
He also said that he was in the Robin Hood, Robin Hood Woods between six and six. Thirty with David Jacobi boost that again that just contradicted as other statement In one interview he described twenty to forty people out searching and they said, there was like four wheelers motorcycles bicycles. It was like tons of people searching in another interview. He says. Probably a hundred were looking before. Dark Hawkeye Three victims were last seen at six than they were reported missing until eight thirty by John Mark buyers. There was not an immediate search right at six, thirty right, so that does so long as just a flat out Libya exact David Jacobi, said in an affidavit that he was not in the woods with Terry Hobbs at this time in his and he was searching with Hobbs by like driving around briefly he was like. I did not go in the woods with Russia. That's a lie right.
He then said that he searched a ton. He was like a search so much and he how many stories about these searches in one he said he walked on a path that led to the creek where they were found in the water beneath and go there and then he also says that he never went within a hundred feet of where the bodies were found so which one is it sounds like you literally just contradict me everything now and again. This is all just what he saw like in the original trial. As you know, we can't take. All of this is evidence rights, but this is where just present things like they presented. The alarming I was gonna Terry Hobbs, you know like we said he beat his wives. He beat his children, he assaulted neighbours. There were. accusations of child sexual abuse as well. That's awful do, western Memphis has an interview with Amanda the daughter that poor, No, I don't. I didn't look out but like an update on her in my twenty twenty yeah, but she went through some shit yeah
You can tell that she was really fucked up from carrying him as a father. It's it's really upsetting in law. The family members came out saying that she had told them things and then Veto Stevie had told them things on issues like really upset obviously a house of horrors yeah. I'm not gonna, go like into detail about that, because at this is already depressing Katy, ass, what our towns definite Blake? If you want to find it out, you can watch western Memphis Red devils not or Mina got any of these. there was a witness, a neighbor who said She saw a Terry Hobbs with the three boys the evening with the murders when she said, and she's interviewed in Paradise lost an western Memphis. She said she tat no one came to ask her right,
She was like when they, the police, came, they didn't ask any of the neighbors anything which is ridiculous. Raising she was like a first thing, you I saw them with Terry, and she was like a night and think anything of it, because it's one of those that are bothered exactly and she goes, but when it all came out later hours, I would he's saying that he didn't see them that day, but I saw it all of them with them like he was like. I know I saw them. I spoke to them with them right. So that's really fucked up because he's lying left and right about where he was right So these are the. There was also a pocket knife that belong to Stevie, that he was obsessed with. Stevie was since this was assessed, this pocketknife, it might have been like a scout pocketknife them in those just especial pocketknife yeah. It wasn't found on him when he was dead air in with his and they assumes I mean she's gone losses like since it was in the water right. It was later found in Terry Hobbs, possession, that's fucking, weird visa,
and that's just weird and then in West of Memphis. They found three guys who said that Terry's nephew, Michael Hobbs told them that Terry killed three boys. In that it was a quote: Hobbs, family secret. yup Thou MIKE Hobbs. His nephew even went under oath, oh shut it. This was a sea like our family secret into thousand and thirteen separate The affidavits were signed by Billy Wayne. Stewart and Benny Guy and these affidavits are now warning trigger warning than this graphic in a wedding. So they said that may fifth, one thousand nine hundred and ninety three. According to both these guys, they said Terry Hobbs, J, David, Jacoby,
two teenagers algae hollings worth and Buddy Lucas showed up to his house looking to buy some drugs. As all these guys said, the tree his actions happening and while it was, he says he he says under oath that he saw Hobbs in Jacobus, kissing and truck. and then he said that it was like a thing that Hobbs was bisexual, but he didn't want people to know that it was just like this weird thing. Not the bisexual thing is weird. I'm saying I usually do that it was like this like thing that lay people knew but didn't know in what was he kind of weird about it right now? What happened after Stuart sold the part on May fifth, they said It's getting back in the pick up, Hobbs De Cobby and the two teenagers drove around. They were to smoking pod their drinking whisky, and then they drove into a dirt road by the blue beacon. Would because, where the Robin Hood Hills it
According to these guys, they said that Terry Hobbs asked the two teenagers to get out and quote Russell. Aha, so well. This was happening he in Jacobus were watching. He said that things something sexual happens between multiple of them, and this is when Chris Spires, Michael, more and Stevie Branch appeared on their bikes.
Inside of Stewart says that Lucas told him that Terry Hob screamed quote, get them little fuckers. You could be grabbed. One of the kids started. Beating him Hobbs ordered the other, the two teenagers to pull down his pants, the slow it was obviously Chris buyers and according to Steward Stuarts ABBA David quote. Mister Hobbs walked over to the boy that Mr Jacobus had been beating and repeatedly bit the boys penis inscrutable, homesick hot then quota cut the boys genitals. and then he said that the other boys had to be killed because they saw oh, my god. Yes, yeah, it's really messed up. So apparently one of the guys who signed this affidavit said they tried to call the West Memphis police Investigator Bill Sanders anything he wanted to tell him the story, but he never even return. This phone call keep calling. I know now
That was what's his name would see that was Billy Windsor Stuarts affidavit, the other guy was Benny Guy and he, told a similar story. He said that while buddy was staying at his home and ninety ninety four, he confessed his involvement in the current killing somebody was one of the guys that was their apparently one of their teenager yeah. Guy said in the affidavit that hollings worth one of those teenagers and also confessed and participating in these murders, He said that his hollings worth actually added a little more details to the whole thing. He said that Terry Hobbs got really pissed because after they had gone the boys that one of the boys started kicking him to try to get away Da Hobbs hit the boy in the head and shouted quote, I'm going to teach your fucking ass now! and he said that the issue of the same kind
happened. There was a beating. There was some awful things happening here He also said the thing about pulling the pants down. These are two separate. Affidavits is the same thing and he said so guy stated that he sent a letter two prosecutor, Scott Ellington in February, to two thousand and twelve putting these two can. actions in there and Ellen never responded to me. so this was all just ignored. Comics So it kills me as it's like okay, so we can say the same exact thing that we set up. the trial with Damien, Jason and Jesse that this is all this could all be bullshit. This could all be people just talking shit, people lie on affidavits, they do it. They drag on in the trial, but why I did we take those first ones into account and gone and other very boys and put one of them to death and to them into life in prison, but now
and it's about Terry Hobbs we're just not even get a look at it. Right, meanwhile, there's way more evidence, that's in its like, and on top of all that we have like tons of bad ground. Here we have witnessed the saying that they can contradict what he was saying. There is at the scene, you aren't reject anything that the three boys that Damien Jason and Jesse were saying as they. There was nothing to contradict right because it was no fucking evidence right. We have fucking here. That takes them out of the scene. clue simply says that the three of those the three of them were, not the source. that hair. No so it's like wait. So why can we listen to it? It's matches Terry Hobbs. It matches one point five percent of the population to but a match is Sorry Hobbs, David Andrews friend. I don't know. Maybe, unlike if the those operatives are true his friend, wasn't there yeah right yeah, but he was out of sight that day, so maybe somehow got on him and they got exactly so that
so PAMELA, Hobbs and her family think he is the murder whole families exert walking around like what the fund they said. They started believing this very shortly after the crimes. Ok, PAMELA Hobbs as like eyes started coming to this conclusion like pretty early rubella and that where they still married, theyve divorced pretty quick but yeah. They are still married at this at the time. Terry huh, He was arrested for drug possession in two thousand and three he was reported to as for abusing whose daughter Amanda PAMELA Hobbs, took out a restraining order against him in two thousand and by a legacy. They are divorced and they actually removed Terry Hobbs, his name from Stevie tombstone, oh wow, I'm glad you two weeks, Godaddy yeah, because There was like we're gonna get into this in a second. There was many reports of how awful he was too Stevie an PAMELA said that,
she's. The leg Stevie would have trouble falling asleep and she would lay with him in bed yeah until he fell asleep the because you do that as a mother, a HA and Terry would get pissed just because he was issues, I taken care of Stevie too much and not paying attention to him likely under a grown up. He had a ton of jealousy about CV, because PAM says you that Terry told her you're spending less time being a mother and not enough time being a wife. Why While I don't even have anything to say about that, so so because of the dna evidence. All the statements about Terry Hobbs, all this shit coming to Light Damien. Legal team filed illegal motion for a new trial zero, like here's new evidence that takes us odyssey ever seen and puts a different suspect in it. So maybe you should listen so
his defence team. They have now they have experts, they announced all the findings. That was a press conference no member, first, two thousand and seven and no new trial was granted, which is absolutely fucking where they kill ya and you can see them present. in this case to the Supreme Court in the West Memphis West of Memphis documentary its infuriating, yo, I think everybody should go want it, but I'm after this Natalie means, like I said from the Dixie checks, came out publicly and said. Terry Hobbs did this like she was like it's pretty fuckin clear. He decide did to sue her because he said that for defamation and yonder I said those a really bad idea, because the ship There came out in the sworn depositions that he had to go through with so damning for his character. The what I heard
I was trying to say it quiet. I was agreed she so issues like wrapped in a way that, she's ago, you gotta tell us up up up. I was like wine made to now. I'm gonna tell you. So few of the the main things so Judy Sadler, who is Steve, Ease aunt, said Stevie told that Terry locked him in a closet and beat a moment. she said that he forced CV and his sister manner to manage to watch porn. You ma masturbated in front of them. A lot of fun threatened the kill members of the family. If Stevie told anybody, how's Sheila Hex, who is Steve each other on said that Terry Hobbs, whipped Stevie, leaving welts she's that he would force him to play dead cockroach, which meant lying on his back with his arms and legs raised and when His limbs would get tired and he would try to lower them. He would Terry, would quote what him what
FUCK. She also said that Stevie talked about how Terran PAM got an attentive fights and Stevie saw Terry strangling PAM, oh my god. these heads Maria and she also this on also said that she witnessed sexual abuse of Amanda so Marie Hex, who is Stevie grandmother, she's interviewed in the western Memphis to a lot of these people? she said that Terry Hobbs was physically in sexually abusive use drugs. He was an alcoholic said that when Amanda was young that she confided in her that he was sexually abusing her a man, the Hobbs gave a horrific account of sexual abuse and said she had like repressed a ton of it. didn't even know what was real and what wasn't Cosu so traumatized course. The poor girl yeah. I'd really sad at one point in the documentary she looks just like her mom too, she looks like PAM along. Thank goodness.
she says that She is, she said like she feels really like hung out on a limb and interviewers like what do you mean and she was like- I feel like like crazy, like like mom went when I'm still. Died. All she was like, I feel like I'm going crazy. really, sad, leffingwells use your whole life is yes to fucking ball of we can't just destroyed. Sharon Nelson, who was Hobbs. His girlfriend said that Hobbs said that he had found the bodies before the police but left them their yeah He says he denies this but she's like no. He told me like he found them and then left them there and let them be discovered, David Jacobi. is the one who gave all the contradicting statement saying like now. I was not the woods He said he only searched with him for a bit before it gets dark, and he also said that when Terry came to his house. He saw the three boys in the street behind him. Ah, even though
Harry said that he had never seen the victims that more that evening and said that he went on like long trips. In the woods with Jacobus right and you go he's like no, no I'm so there is that then Mildred French this is another ones. Are grotto, your last name when you gotta watch him in this. The deposition, Money goes to this cause. He is such an asshole about this, so Mildred friends was an elderly neighbour emphasis on now. During the eighties. She said that she heard a woman screaming and then she her baby crying oh no. She went over there and she was she such about Algeria. What about Birch Ici was like what the fuck is going. and he was like you stay out of my business bobon. He was like I'm going to. She was like I'm going to make it my business and I'm going to call the police the next time. I hear you hurting them like I'm, not dealing with this. So then she said she was in the shower one day and he, it hacked her in her shower and sexually assaulted. Oh my god. Yes,
and she said he also killed her cat charges were filed for this assault and he never really denies this attack, but he won't talk about he's right at the past year, yeah. It is your haunting past body. He said he didn't, kill the cap, but he wanted. He won't and when you see him in the video of the deposition and he gets there, we're like all we want to, they say, like the investigator says, here's the testimony of Mildred French Emma. They give it to her to him and their legs, you read it over and then we'll talk about it. He literally flips the page governments slammed shut and just push is it away, and these are knows what fuckin whom they go. Did you are you reading, because now on our reading that and shoes, I soon do. Remember belted friends he was like. Maybe I don't know maybe, and they were like neighbor of yours, tangible when it goes. Oh yeah, some old lady, I don't know. Ok, You think you're like a huge concern. Us all
and they interview her in that documentary and she's like folk like bad him do so in December, first, two thousand and nine the a case against Natalie mains. When he decided the Sioux, her was dismissed. She one hell yeah. The judge ruled that hob should pay her. Seventeen thousand five hundred ninety dollars and twenty seven cents for her legal expenses on ever happen. Terry Hob said quote: I don't give a damn what the judge says: I'm not paying the Dixie checks a thing there was also the biting evidence that I mentioned earlier and may I had his teeth pulled in the mid nineties. Yes uncle Donald area while now so lets us though, all of the parents believed that three boys that were in jail did it Damien, Jason and Jesse. Now PAM came out and said she does not believe they did. It really believe story did it right or at least had the capacity to do it, but she doesn't believe they did it right, mature,
Mark buyers was an avid against them that they, they didn't and they did it. He suddenly turned around and said he thinks Harry Hobbs. Did it in that the three in jail did not do it. He actually wrote Damien a letter, apologizing term, while Damien actually said he forgave him and was like you lost your child. I can't let you did what you thought. You was right right and he was like I'm not gonna hold onto that shit cause he's a buddhist is he such a Buddhists? I don't have that kind of theirs I'll, give it a clip of Terry Hobbs, going into like one of the hearings like over Pelias deposition or something and Joan of arc of high hers is in front of an entire bunch of reporters. Ngos there's the baby killer now and like to tarry Hobbs, turns around and gives him. Oh look, that's good array on me. I and I was like he's gonna kill John Meyer. Your nose like what the fuck was scared, because some people are just pure
few aussi eager and one you realize that you see in all over them. And then, when asked about it like who he thought was responsible for this, like what he thought happened, John Mark buyers said Quote Terry Wynn, Hobbs, I dont. How much clearer I have to make it while so Yeah so what ended up happening to get these three out of jail were reaching the end now. So, if you think him for his kind, words they got out of jail because at this time exactly as you can see, nothing was happening for them. None of their position is happening on our guide and there, like always evidences, being brought forward, though, is exonerating them basically and put more people in their there. Getting any of this. There are also those Ali celebrities working on their side disease and this mass amount of people that are on their side just working for them and they just sitting there rotting in jail, so ended using an Alfred plea
and so in November of two thousand and ten dark and saw States Supreme Court did order a new trial after the DNA evidence failed to connect them. Ok, Court ruled that they could present the new evidence at the new trial to try to say that they were innocent, so, while this is all coming into fruition, this is when the offered please deal was coming in to fruition. two, so Steve Braga of Damien, attorneys, suggested they try a very rare legal move. This is the offered plea basically it's where a defendant plead guilty but maintains their innocence, so This plea began as is always a precedent. Was a nineteen, seventy Supreme Court case where Henry Alford, was indicted for first degree murder. He could and he was innocent when he said,
he was aware that witness statements and evidence would not really make him look great and he said he You know he was stuck in this like. I know, I'm innocent, but I know I'm going to get convicted cuz. This is pretty damning shit so, like I really didn't do it so he said he wanted to plead guilty, and I plead guilty on secondary murder because they said there's too much evidence, but I he shot, no man, but I take the fault for the other man. We never had an argument, our life and I just plead guilty because they said, if I didn't, they would gas me for it, and that is all I am not guilty, but I plead guilty. Ok and its North Carolina verses out So basically he was saying I don't want to get the gas chamber right, I'm going to get the death penalty if I plead not guilty and go through this trial, so I'm just going to play guilty so that they don't kill me, but I'm not guilty. Ok, so pleading guilty, well maintained, maintaining in essence, so Arkansas prosecuting Attorney said that the steel was not awesome, but he said
quote. It certainly was not a perfect revolution in the case for the state, but it was much better than having three trials, trying to convince thirty six jurors of the defendants, guilt using old evidence, failed memories, changed mines, had witnesses and the parents of two of the victims. Who now say they believe the defendants are innocent of the crime rate. So this is, state sang yeah this. Please socks, good, we're, gonna, let what we believe are three child murderers out, yet total lake, the other option. that all these people come forward and said that they don't believe that they did not. Evidence proves that and then We have the courage to do. I wish they were able to do up its verdict, so August, nineteen two thousand eleven. They entered the offered plea and walked out of Court Freeman Good, but Jason said He almost said no to the state
he has on paper he still technically yonder is he said I was ready. He said I was not ready to plead guilty. The crime cause he's like, I didn't commit it and I won't plead guilty to it. he said and still says it wasn't justice, but he said that he did it for Damien because he said He was having such a horrible prison experience we obviously present sucks for everybody. He was like his experience was far away different than what mean Jesse's where and he was like. His health was failing. Was worried that he was just gonna die in prison. There were many like and they were gonna kill him so. He said to save Damien. He did it buddy, otherwise, wouldn't have agreed to it right and the plea makes it so. The three can't sue the state of Arkansas for imprisoning them for over eighteen years for a crime they wish they fuckin. Could they were imprisoned for over eighteen years, Damien on on death row for eighteen years, it's unbelievable and so now, basically it's like,
and now on paper. They are three convicted felons. and they all manner, of our three founded editor of three capital: murder charges, each of child martyr, so now I, like, I said, buyers thinks that Terry Hobbs did it. He thinks the three are in a sense of his PAM Hobbs Jason Baldwin became the co founder of Proclaimed Justice, which you can find out, proclaimed justice, DOT org and it's a nonprofit that aids those wrongfully convicted of crimes once they D. to take on a case, though, fund the re investigation and legal representation because he was like. I want to help people that were in my shoes, yeah He also was pursuing an undergraduate degree and plan to go to law school. While because he studied law in prison, he just to continue to overturn and prevent wrongful convictions, he travels everywhere. Speaking for the abolition of the death,
penalty and also the abolition of juvenile life sentences without pearl, which we have covered a couple. Cases like that, he's married to a woman named Holly Bear Lake met while he was imprisoned for love, love, and they just like appears to be doing amazing, amazing Damien, because he was an outside of a concrete sell for over a decade. His eyesight suffered immensely. It was damage lot now he s door, sunglasses, twenty four, seven. He can't see more than a couple of feet in front of them. because your eyes are like training to see far or I time like by looking at far away thing right, when you are only looking at something that's right in front of you for ten year, that your eyes Frida training to see far right. So they can't see far any more. What do you think they're in their little creepy?
does that ash thought she saw my kids under the door in the adjoining room where we're recording but they're not there, and I just open the door in their downstairs. I, sir, I thought if he uttered a there, really bad creepy So yes, so Damien is. Who has a ton of I issues? He said first from PTSD. He had a traumatic brain injury in prison for my he said he had such constant beatings from guards that he would be quote pissing blood he also said he suffered crazy teeth issues because they don't give any medical or dental care on death row and they just told him weakening pull them all out, or you can second up and he started up by the end of his prison sentence. He had Embrace Buddhism and, like I said, was meditating five to seven or eight hours a day he married a woman named lorry Davis in prison and ninety ninety nine in a buddhist ceremony yeah, they are still married. They run amok together, they exchanged like love, letters top. Does she
like she was like a very successful in very, like you know, with it enlightened just heard about it hey, studied the case and then message to our message. Him in the day I am today, I am too. She sent him a letter in prison. He said that he loved that she started it by apologising for invading his privacy by met by, some writing India and he was like that just like struck me as lying all really nice of hurricanes, like nobody thinks of me as having any right, so it could tonight so they're leg in love and married they live in and why in New York City did live in Salem for a while if he felt like he belong to their cause. It's like the epicenter of like you guys here made a career out of the study of magic with ok, let's call he's
written three books, the latest one with high magick, a guide to the spiritual practices that saved my life on death row. Why? It's basically showing people like how he survived with meditation and like ritual, and all that he does retreats. That's focus on spiritual magic, he's done, art he's gotten tons, How two's? He always one forget. What he's got a dam is without any doubt, gala keys, just like there live in their lives, they came out here. They went in and ninety three they came out in two thousand and eleven we didn't know only holiness own was like they had to learn everything I am. one of the things in western Memphis Holly and Jason on the couch in the hotel after he was released. Oh gosh and I wanted to clarify in his mom- comes my goodness. I god he opens the door and he goes and says it like a lion. Boy and hug, sir, and I like
wanted to die. I was there. I was like seriously it's the sweetest thing. I was able to hug Herlews able the hunter on four eight till. He was also happy to see heard she like maintained like through the whole time like he is innocent. You know, and then holly his wife was saying, like you showing his mom his new suit case here in Holly said I was so he is good. I gave him this new, like fancy suitcase and he loved it, and he said I've never had a suitcase before all my heart was. You chose to invite you as rank its little things like that that I dont think of lay I and Damien said he would get up in the middle of night sometimes and sleep in the bathroom on the floor because he just wasn't used to them Space, like space was freaking him out yeah. It may go that you would get up and literally lay on the floor by himself in the bathroom to be in like a confined space wow. So it's like that go through so much shit coming out of their eyes so much by it seems like they're doing. Ok, I think Jesse had a low mishap with Dr
about our licence missile clay, Jesse, there's no update on that, but other than that they ve been Stana. They definitely Jason Damien are Deaf Billy thriving, I think I hope Jesse and Stew yeah, but does not allowed and Jesse Buzz. I you know, I think this the tragic case yeah. Nobody has seen just as we know a boy's DES. I hope somebody gives a deathbed confession. To be quite honest: He doesn't even matter like, but thou unevenly justice ie there exists a faint. You just want to know it's one of those like the german Ain stuff. You just want to know, I mean. Maybe you know I don't know I know do we know I don't know I backup? either way. That is the who has met with the West Memphis three slash four parts, and I hope you guys enjoyed it logs and document horrified by ECHO red Devils, not Garee, Damien books. I highly recommend life after death, his book
Jason also wrote a book, I'm in a post sell these in the show notes, go read my lover: lefferts Devils knock a watch West Memphis, the Paradise lost, documentaries, dont, go sea devils, not the movie saw a bath fire by death. Really go. Look up this case and go find out. All you can considerably runs for real. But yes thanks for that I'll go ahead and followed him Instagram to see our last post about the wealth of its thirty at morbid vodka hit us up on Instagram Nope Twitter. At a morbid vodka during the Facebook group, Morbid Colin Underground vodka, send us a gmail, morbid, podcast, add Gmail Doc hung and check out our website for updates on our lives, show morbid podcast dot com. We hope you
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Transcript generated on 2021-07-04.