« Morbid: A True Crime Podcast

Episode 60: Kurt Cobain Part 2

2019-04-18 | 🔗
In the conclusion to our deep dive into the death of Kurt Cobain, we talk about the crime scene in more depth, the events leading up to Kurt's eventual discovery, Courtney Love's possible role and the investigation that still has us scratching our heads. Did Kurt die by his own hand that day in his Seattle greenhouse, or was someone else behind the shotgun? This case is a real mystery....or is it?
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The moment you write a river through downtown the moment you step into acres of lush gardens the moment you find what could possibly be the best thing you ve ever tasted. This is for Generous Richmond region. A place filled with moments to be had with art, lining the streets insights into our story as a people and outdoor adventures, waiting to be discovered, go to visit, Richmond, vs dot com to learn more about the Richmond region, then find your moment hey weirdos match and I'm Alina, and this is more bed
super morbid. It's actually better get real morbid because we are finishing. Kirk Albinos, part, two to add to can pad to can't you just lost four hundred followers. So what's up weirdos housed are weak, then its probable me, like Wednesday or Thursday is my exposure char ready for they attacked really. But this pod gas doesn't about just me, but about murder. It is
it's about matter, and do you know something? That's about murder. What's about murder, sponsor murder, apparel, look at that sag way game. I am a fuckin genius, so guys we have this cool ass, fuckin sponsor called murder apparel there you are on Instagram and you can head over to their instagram murder apparel and r D are a p p r l, I think I spelled correctly settling alive, makes me nervous and if you go to their instagram and then click the link and their instagram Bio, it will lead you to their shop, where you can look at all their fuckin cool shirts and if you won by Saddam, you should because guess what you'll get twenty five percent off you will, if you use our code morbid M o r b idee deviant nervous when he spoke not that one egg us have spoken about so yeah guys
you really should go check them out. I posted a short that I was wearing by them and they have wicked cool shit. So yeah, that's all it's all true crime, goodness horror, goodness its everything that all of you love and cherish yeah deep in your heart. So I think that you are going to fall in love with them. Those long, Freddy Krueger up in there does assured this. As the hut When did it, I have it just go: go get us out into a go, get it so in other news, but we are to be doing a q and a foreigner Patrone says. I have asked you guys a bunch of Lake Gimme, your time zones in your days in your best times, and all that good stuff
and all of you were awesome enough to answer me so I'm going to take all those I'm gonna compiled among Gonna, put them through an intricate computer system that I don't have an doesn't exist and we're gonna come out with a perfect goddamn day in time for everybody per fact, Kenneth and by AIR Buddy. I mean as many people as I possibly can arena trying to elect next week I think, we're gonna, give that a shot so look forward to next week eyes. I will let you know, on all our accounts, so you'll be well aware and on the pay, but thank you for being so awesome and giving me all the times when I asked for them. You guys are the best flee, fuckin lobby and will also be having a bonus episode for you guys coming up very shortly. Will shadowed pitcher ends at the end of the episode? Yes, bitterness is they're gonna get your day in the sun at the end of the episode so stay, tuned and I think we should first jump right
then to cocoa being far too one two three so I think when we last left you guys we were talking about the crime scene. We didn't give like super dates, but we were. We gave you the banana weird giving you the basics of what was going on and we are qualities in you with we're. Gonna give you some details this week were getting in two. yeah you're gonna get detail, so hang type detail city now, I'm gonna start off with the coroner. All current doktor, Nicholas Heart Home is inaccurately labelled as a corner and a lot of places actually because I keep seeing articles that are like the coroner in this case. The coroner, in this case the corner in this case he wasn't a corner, so very sad he's also dead now, so IP are repeated that he died in a crazy based, jumping accident accident packages in accident, because
he was known. Ass doktor does not to be confused with the park ass, but he liked to doing like crazy Nino. He would like sky dive based jump. Do all that shit? It's a! U is like an adrenalin junkie. We can really talked him anymore, but farmer. So the thing with the coroner label that just kind of bugs me because maybe it's because I work and like the death industry I later I did not know what else is altering the death and regulatory framework on actually in the death, and I am so a dire figure. Just bothers me when terms get lake. Millions yeah, like their hand. So coroners tend to be elected officials who, like consult with forensic pathologist son autopsies. They dont have to be medical doctors. Ok was he a doctor? He was ok was a doctor
So from what I can tell Seattle has a medical examiner which our medical doctors specializing in forensic pathology should they went through a specialised friends, pathology programme to become medical examined. Scottish! That's just just a note other than this doctor Hartong was the first you, no medical professional to arrive at debt at Kurtz death scene, and he did autopsy, but he was only employed at the time by the Medical examiners office a single year, forensics fellowship and had not yet taken the accreditation examination to become a certified medical exam. Their thoughts. Folk Twiggy is essentially an apprentice he wishes. He was on his way and I mean paint he may be here. New, all his shit, and he re who I mean he did become a medical examiner, so He will know we knew what he's doing rather than his eyes. He was only thirty years old, like that.
That's younger than me. Like I'm sorry, I'm I gave you that look anyway, what an but he was essentially just an apprentice, medical examiner. Anyone here shows up on one of the Mai. Most insane death scenes effort with the most high profile they never sent a fucking. in turn over the innovative insist, crazy to me and since the Seattle he had already labelled the suicide from the jump cause. They walked in their work suicide and then they just like. Let's go to lunch, It was probably gonna, be tough for this, like little dude on the total Paul to disagree with these Reno veteran police officers and Hamas, homicide, detecting our like that were like this is a suicide rate. So unexpectedly, like I said, given the profile of this case as well, he just those too much that he was, but he was being influenced by also the lead. Detective on Kurds case was one of his closest friends in so Courtney. Love, that's weird
yeah and but he dabble didn't band promotion. Interrelate had he actually promoted, shows firm, Nirvana one point Y yeah isn't considered like conflict. I just I don't know like. I feel that is a little weird. I would think so for sure it's like, if you got an autopsy of someone that you, like best friends, whistling rash new opt out of there. I don't know definitely in what they did after Sir, well end there. Are some reports. That say not only was he friends with Courtney Love, but he had a weird infatuation with Courtney, which I don't understand So if he had a weird infatuation with corny love or if he even had a stronger relationship with Corti love, TAT could point in wanting to push this case in court. He loves favour yeah, just saying not saying they did and got a fannicot mummy just say any good. Nelson, the cops had already labelled this a suicide from the jump like I said. Obviously this was gonna cloud
all judgment when it came to actually investigating this case and seen as anything other than a suicide. In fact, according to Vernon J, Gabarus retired lieutenant commander of the and Y see police department, this is kind of a proven phenomena like it happens. He wrote a standard textbook on crime scene protocol and in it he cites dozens of examples of murders that were staged as suicides and when totally undetected in under investigated because of lazy police work right and this guy's a lieutenant commander retired, like you, The police I feel like I know how they should not be in a deck and, just being like your cops, are lazy. He was like I was a cop. I was a lieutenant commander. I know how these go. This goes right is a thing that happens, so he said quote. I have personally investigated. Many such cases in the truth of the matter is that initially the cases did look like suicides,
investigator cannot assume anything is a professional law enforcement officer. He said when they do that everything goes to hell and even admitted quote. Without a doubt, investigators take short cuts when they hear the word soon. site old man, so he's literally saying like these cops could have gone in there and just like our let's just was nips amends here. Let's just get this time because obviously this guy just blew set off by like we don't have to worry about. If you actually looked into a you realize it's not even possible, which is what we're gonna do what we're doing right now. So, let's move onto Tom Grants, my boy, I'm not gonna, go. super detail about Tom Grant. I will leave that to ash you're welcome, but I'm just gonna give a couple of things that were like who so Tom Grant is the private investigator that Courtney hired to quote find her?
has been closely the biggest mistake she ever made. This will incur coming this end, doing Heroin Warburton, yet huge mass thousand, pretty big big mistake. Now huge huge sail up saying this was, after current, had lino escaped exodus, rehab centre right when he went quote sing and that's who she hard to try to quote, find him which he wasn't missing. Logistic minnetaki just went home, but he was also a format. Active in the l, a county, sheriffs department, so just to give his little backroom credentials to not just some crazy. That's like I'm upset that I hear and his record is via the cool Enos yeah like his record as employees. The lackeys ease no joke. So Grand already had doubts about corny, because when Courtney pretended be Kurtz mom to call the missing persons report in alleging he was suicidal, which was so fucked up. He saw that as a diversion to make sure Kurt was immediately
and as such in the media, which is exactly what happened literally because obviously of his mom is calling and saying my son is missing and I know he suicidal gun yeah. You can mom when he says my son is suicidal and she knew that. But modern say that is so grand already was like his word. So at one point grant went on the Tom Lakers Radio show in he flat out its said with no punches polls that he thinks Courtney of, and Michael Kelly do it which will cost about yeah. We do. We mentioned him in the last episode. He's the junkie live and nanny, who is also Courtney. Sex, good super awesome person to pick as an entity was also indefinitely infatuated with one hundred percent. He believed that Courtney and Kelly do it were involved in some way in the conspiracy to conquered. He didn't say they held the guy
He didn't say they pulled the trigger. He just said they know something I want to end their involved now. How did love respond? To this? I mean you he's saying this accusation. She would be passed in Austria and in response to it, she just offered him more work as like low, more private investigations, which is like obvious Your training needs hush money we're inside. He literally said he was like this was hush money right, because if she went nuts she knows I'm investigating. I know it's like I have I I'm on the right trail, and so she doesn't want to piss me off record's. She wants to hold its like. You can keep your enemies closer. friends closer and unfortunately kind of smart she's, you know it he is she's that cause she's a diabolical turkey cunning leg in out she's that that kind of smart that can go really
good or go really mad and you choose which way you gonna take it and she clearly took it one way. So, let's move under the gun now, because I did a lot of research about this guy. She then the gun was a Remington. Am eleven twenty gauge shock on the shot gun wasn't examined by the Seattle pity until a full month after his death on May six, nineteen. Eighty four! just insanely ridiculous we what in which prove that they went in. There went suicide and, through that gun and evident storage and we're like boom. Now, contacts area will when they did finally get the fuck around to it
There was supposedly only smudged fingerprints that were completely and identifiable much. That doesn't make any sense, so it seemed like someone had attempted to wipe it clean. But how did that happen if Kurt had already shot the gun into his mouth? So I have a theory of what is your theory, I think is Kurt. Was like levitating above rake raftery cut himself, music, wait! A second wow! You gonna fuck, this up a little bit. Yeah stir up the pot when another white thought halfway up only after suggested throw people out. That's what I think happened, these. That's what happened or he did shoes himself in the mouth, with the shock and then the so that happened chair then he was like old. I'm just gonna wipe the scan downright quick and then he lay down and died. Oh yeah! No! I e, I think, that's it. That makes us, especially as I think it was after he impaled himself cause the shock and was like
to our young people. They wouldn't have been fed his mouth anyway. So after he had upheld it through the back of his skull. He was a well well and he just pulled it out. Real quick, it was like wipe wipe many died, exactly that's what happened except not at all makes a lot of sense. Nor does, and the thing is there should have been at least one of Kurds. Fingerprints on that gun at least want it, his gun and they're telling me that he shot himself with it where his fingers. I have questions, and it's like he shot himself while being like where, where where, where, unlike moving his hand out, not only those who exploit that doesn't make any sense doesn't none of it does now over the years, we ve called many important sportsman, scrape, wins, challenges and comebacks. All right now is about all three. This is narrow, Reese and I might quick supporting it.
What message from Independence Blue cross together as a team, we can be comin nineteen by getting the backseat. I've learned that there are safe, effective and rigorously testing. So, let's make this the biggest come back and filling his together. We will be covered nightly after regular coming back home. It was just a mental breakdown. For me, I was on the verge of giving up not chapter that season in my life was over. Now. What who was? I am I kept asking myself the pressure to have an altogether too. Here too down the monsters inside it was too much. I lost it. I heard about the wounded where project I'd seen the logo and A visual of a warrior carrying another warrior, the programmes at the window, where project offers not just the veteran themselves. It's it's their holdings. brings it altogether. Scores that we carry
and just because the scars of their doesn't mean there were any less than what we were right now. I am the best version I ever have been of myself. I can embrace the broken ass, you wouldn't go into battle alone. You dont have to fight this alone. Visit wounded, warrior project, DOT, Org, slash, not alone well in the original police report They also said that there was evidence on Kurds hands that proved he had discharge. The weapon himself said to further proof this linked. Yes, are you know CSI, yet it shit gun something residue in t, exactly gun, Ed's, gunshots, residents guess, while the fail, if I could have done something resident, gigantic suddenly got it does now to full years after this police report came out. The Seattle pity admitted that this was actually just bullshit that was put in the report by IRAN.
He caught on the scene. Are you kidding so they literally lied about it on the original police report to pointless in suicides direction such as it Dick. So it's like, if that doesn't make you question right whether this was as seen investigation or what will I'm not saying that proves definitively. I'm saying that should make you go things that make you go. and fingerprints The gun will last service decimate. None of it may makes any kind of some food put it. The fact that there were no legible, prince and only smudged friends on that gun, heavily points in the direction of somebody, wiping it down murder
Let's move over to the suicide note- and I say suicide note with big giant air quotes, quote crow quote suicide. Note hashtag, not a suicide note, hashtag a suicide note forgery exactly it was bonkers. The last bit was completely different handwriting and had a completely different tone to it as well. When I say different handwriting, I mean this literally look like you, don't look at it and go. Oh. That looks a little different at the annual like nope. Maybe a ten year old child wrote that last bit literally a four year old, could look at those known Gillig. Oh that's, two different writings. It's completely different writing ended. The tone shifts completely the rest of the note mentions. For me how many times none o, I don't like the law. You know the first part of the note mentions court, Nellie errors, and it's nothing about
suicide. It's all seemingly about quitting music or grain Nirvana, and it was confirmed that Nirvana was breaking exact time argument about a little later, exactly end, so basically what it said the at the addition. At the end that conveniently talked about Courtney and made it more of a suicide note said: quote Francis in court me I'll be at your alter. Please keep going Courtney. Francis for her life, which will be so much happier without me, I love I love you, but guess what he didn't love her. He was about to fucking divorce her and he was trying to write her out of the will. So not only does it look ridiculous because the handwritings bonkers, but it also doesn't make any sense, was acknowledged, rambling, this weird thing: he sang very coherent things and looks he quote. He was the person who wrote that a saying, very coherent thing. and because it so sloppy. Looking in almost looks like somebody who doesn't know how to write like him,
lying just saying now, the couples lawyers so Kurt and Courtney lawyer, Rosemary Carol, I've just say nationalism and talk to Tom grant herself, and she told him that Kurt was planning to divorce Courtney. She knew that she had discussed over them. She there urged Tom to investigate the death more. She said the reasoning and this right bring this up, because it ties into the note, so she admitted that you found samples of Courtney, love pray. dissing someone else's handwriting and it was like found in her backpack Thea loopholes that sheet to cause is a picture of it. It's I don't know how explain what I was you ever be doing that in what it was was on, like there's notes taken out of court, la like right? Yes, yes, yes, and that were clearly like had been Trieste. yeah you're right that was part of it
and she would underline like certain letters when it would like she do the letter over and over and the one that should underlie most severe right like how she wanted it to look. She would underline it. Yeah like she is that's bizarre and civil rights, weird is most to the letters that she was practising are the letters that were used to spell out words and the end of the suicide note. What coin it is so weird man we're somewhere. if that wasn't enough, The lawyer also found a memo that Courtney had written to herself. That said get arrested, and you know it's actually funny if it's funny at all. But if you watch the documentary curtain court me on Sunday flicks right now, are you on? Corny wrote my most for every area. Before she got famous, she wrote like her ex boyfriend. I think as alma I get supervised to it by her. Ex boyfriend is on it and he like has some old diaries, unlike notes and stuff of hers, and one of them is like, become best friend
with Michael state. Michael, is that, whereas in which is actually glares because she did that bind, it was like get famous may make friends with this person. Do this and she did Oliver man she Like vision, boarding letter Olympic early, she was no division board, this vision? Boarding before Pinterest was vision, boarding, that's crazy. Well, it turns out that apparently she's really good at that boarding thing, because she dig it up. and how does she got arrested after calling Tom Grant to quote find her missing husband when he escaped from me up? She was arrested for drug possession and having a doctors. Scripts impact in her hotel room, it, wouldn't you know, that's the perfect alibi, so we would be like I didn't kill him. I was in jail. Ask these cops
well well knew then she said I just. I think she little ways it was in her mask these fine blues. Ask these fine men of the law we decided. Meliboeus Mass as in Nepal, is as as that is a bad ways. Verbatim would happen. That's actually Christie. Love is with us tonight now back back to the gun, because I couldn't get past this gun guys Just could not this part. Everybody just sit down. Ok, yes, this parts fuckin while sit. Take as I want someone explaining this to me. This goes any other way modelled on to your butts hold onto those, but so the show can itself
makes it really tough to imagine suicide. This particular gun is a long gun from what I could find the barrel is about twenty eight inches long and the full gun is about fifty inches long altogether. That's fucking long. Yeah Kurt was five foot. Knowing this makes him sixty nine inches long tat means, the gun is over seventy percent of his full height. How the hell did he have sat down as the medical examiners notes say, put the butter the gun between his sneaker clad feet place. end of the barrel into his mouth and pulled the trigger with his thumb he began. He couldn't you know. I do The fuckin barrel would be well over his head in that position to you'd have to literally like impale his own head with the fucking shock onwards. Didn't which would make any sense anyway, because then you cheated out new just go. You know once you and pale yourself with it. Standing also doesn't make sense, because
A lot of people are like. Ok, maybe they had that wrong. Maybe he was still then, with the gun shot to it over the gun, shot himself any fell backwards and opposition, but guess what you're wrong? If you think that And you know what it's like: ok, I see your point. I mourn devils advocating I get it didn't happen, now. You know why there's newly released crime scene photos that make that impossible impossible. These, We require release crime scene photo, show his feet and the areas around his feet. There is out certainly no blood anywhere in any of these photos. If you was standing and shot himself in the mouth, with the shock on blood, have it would have been pouring out of his face onto the floor by all over his feet. It was gravity. I mean that China would have been all over his sneakers. It would have Oliver flattering everywhere. His sneakers are clean, does not a drop of blood on them nope, so it does make sense, no sense, and if you ve I mean when I think about it, when you
you get a head injury or legal mouth injury? knows anything in your skull area. Only you bleed. So much from your head, I mean that's just that's. This fact shooting yourself in the mouth, with a shock on, is going to produce a river of blood to come out of every orifice in your face. Certainly self obsessed- it just doesn't make sense. Now now the spent casing from the shock on his question a lot as well, and there is good reason for that when current supposedly shot himself with this particular gun this, EL casing would have flown out to his right because that's where the opening was for those the shelter go into so daylight, they eject, that way so that she'll take casing the land where it actually did, which was on Kurt's left side. The gun would have had to have been turned one hundred and eighty degrees, meaning in someone else's hands,
now the police tried to explain this away shockingly by saying- the recoil of the shock. I was just so intense tat. It just flip the gun in the opposite direction, so the spent casing makes sense. Now. Ok, ok, ok, sure are no except this is wrong wrong again, because Cobain had deliberately purchased a low power, twenty gauge sharrkan, because and wanted just go and kill. People are anything he wanted to deter people from coming into his home. So his main thing was he was like. I just want to scare people with this gun, and I want to just you know, waving rounded intruders look at what actually shoot someone jack was known to have a very low recoil. It was actually so underpowered that, even though it had gone off in Kurtz Mouth, the shot didn't ex exit his head.
Which is why that's how low power this was. So it's like that would not have a kick backer recoiled that would flip the gun in a totally different direction in his hand right now. Moving on from the gun talk about the heroin so if he had somehow shape shifted to get back into his mouth. And then somehow shot himself in the mouth with the shotgun. Well. standing over it or laying down doing something crazy if magic occurred in that greenhouse that day then he any somehow produced absolutely no blood while standing over agenda shooting himself in the face There is still an issue here there something like three times the lethal limit of heroin, slash volume like a cocktail incurred body. Now, I'm just gonna, give a little caviar
Take it with a little bit of a grain of salt, because that number is not one hundred percent confirmed, because the autopsy report has never been fully released. So from what I have gathered, that is what he hadn't system three times the lethal, MT, that's what Europe is reported everywhere. It was reported in the original report. So that's what everybody's going off of report report now. This should have incapacitated him pretty quickly. canadian chemist, name, Roger Louis, gathered together. Dozens of toxicology studies regarding drug overdose is to try and find comparable cases at one point, because people are trying to do this everywhere. People are trying to figure out how the hell this dude without much heroin in his system, was to do anything, never mind latently, supposedly dead, so of these one thousand five
hundred and twenty six heroin deaths that this guy looked at? Only twenty six had drunk drug levels as high as Kurt and all of them either died. instantly or were immediately incapacitated and all of those ones, found with the syringes still in their bodies, because they didn't even have time to remove the surrendering about really. That's how quickly they were income. fascinated. They could even take the syringe out they just done so would like what So this guy, there is no one case out there. That makes sense that that would show you. This can happen right that what which I'm gonna get in all he was supposedly did after he got himself but in two thousand and fourteen the Seattle police confirmed that Cobain had indeed taken a huge lethal overdose, but they were saying because, of course, they have an answer for everything: They argued that his tolerance levels were just so high tat. He was
able to remain conscious long enough to shoot himself false. This doesn't make. Any fuckin sense, because looking at that, other study This would literally may Kurt arrival of medicine like he would super human that we have never encountered in any. a cold study ever which he wants a superhuman though we ve never I don't think he's a medical marvel. No, it's one thing Her Cobain is not as a medical marvel. I say that with one hundred percent certainty, so that doesn't make sense but where to stay on the heroin for one more minute here, because let get super science see about heroin. Fur moment gay yeah Everyone knows that isn't her when she That is an expensive somebody was like no no and we're like. We know that allows the trap that drugs we tell them. I did dare well at molecular level. Yes, we're going to them fill out even mean heroin has three active metabolites morphine ache. Compound
three diaspora to Le Morphine, which we're gonna call three men. Three men. Six mano, acetone morphine room called MOM six MA am six MA. Am has been touted as being the initial cause of the feelings that users get upon, injecting heroin. Irwin metabolize into six MA am very quickly upon entering somebody system, and it is this metabolites, six man that actually crosses the blood bring. barrier and actually heroin in its full capacity, really only enters the blood brain barrier in small amounts caught it. So it's this metabolites, six men in facts What a study by your Morland, who is sitting around searcher from the Norwegian Institute of Public Health in a professor found that when they studied the breakdown of heroin in the human body, they said after three a minute. Six man was the predominant substance in the blood and the brain of the heroin user.
What this substance does is agreed. really sharp increase in the modern molecule dope mean in the brain and that's why harrowing users feel so fuckin good for a period of time like that's what they all talk about. That like euphoric dopamine, will do that for that six man does, after about an hour the six man converts into morphine. In this we'll stay around four hours. Morphine is no fucking joke. This ship would have definitely cause some kind of incapacitation, regardless of how much heroin Kurt had used in the past. One time I had to be on morphine, hey, Vigo, Are occurred. I was like never give me that shit, I'm gonna, do it now Debt of falling into a coma are just passing the fuck out somehow Kurt had the wherewithal and the ability to old down his sleeves after injecting heroin with all. We know now put it Drug paraphernalia away in the cigar box found next M neatly, lay
two towels on the floor, anticipating where his head woodland address and then lie down fiddle. Would the positioning of the shock on between his legs and then pull the trigger effectively. There was any way to pass his head waiting. as you said, and then there's just the weirdness of that decision, complete like in general, because heroin users I'll kill themselves exactly would with guns, so Doktor Vince into Maya, one of America's lake motion and most senior friends, pathologists, like shadows events into my actually pretty sure, he's answered obliged by Dago he Pelias Oh that I know Doktor Cyril wept. I think his name of that I might be saying his name wrong and I apologise Doktor Cyril is the former president of the American Academy of Forensic science. He studied the Kirk obeying case for twenty years. They have both said and I
quote no study I know of has correlated the use of heroin. Would suicide? In fact, Emilio said quote. I cannot think of a case where I've had some one injections. with a huge amount of heroin and then proceed to kill himself. It just doesn't make any sense. Why would he shoot himself before the drug had had chanced to even take effect, so basically if he managed to stay conscious after being a fucking medical marvel, why Would you choose that moment of the greatest high of his life to kill himself? He wanted because he didn't install point of heroin is apparently that you feel this like euphoria, that that's why people keep going back may just keep chasing that feeling right, He didn't sit around four hours after injecting himself and then get to that. Like shit stage of heroin use Possibly did this immediately after injecting it. Where are you feeling of debating such use, feeling the best, but now
you kill yourself as when you're feeling the best, we'll go out on a limb and say that I just feel like you, don't do it when you're feeling the greatest hive, your life contacts clues right, yes, Some reports also said that he barricaded, self into the locked greenhouse? So how is anyone else in there with them? Enable the lock the door behind them? Willows, pushbutton, Lock, Braden mention that they just city barricade himself in their no one could have witches and true the peoples It was barricaded in so no one could have been in there and actually left and then locked it because it was, it just doesn't make sense. But again it was a push button lock. You know the kind you can fuckin push and then closed the door behind you as you leave next. There is nothing oh I'm sure, get a point out to other weird things that I'm sure ash can probably give us answers. Formal touch, one.
Michael Kali do it was in the home when Cobain were went missing, interesting and some one used Corbians credit card. While he was already dead, yeah, that's interesting. He used the credit card type just the plane ticket after busting out of exodus, and then it was used all the way until his body was discussed, and these we ever been able to find, because I was forty claimed to have shut off his credit cards, largely done of any explanation for that I don't think I looked up one, but there is no idea. I should have said you would know that out of my government now because in reality I've read like no one knows that, namely to actual no ashes and ashes a Marvel ass. It is the only one who has this information breaking news. So there are a few things that I'll get a little more like you touched upon, but I would go further and to somebody First, I just want to say by all accounts: Corti was a super domineering controlling woman, shocked from this,
start literally. The only thing she wanted to do was be famous, but only wanted to be famous. She wanted to have money, but she felt she needed to be connected to a man to get S famous, I mean society I get a first year, but the girl will also people thought that current court, he was gonna, be, were famous the witch. can't run, which needed to be. I think they both Felicia was wrong. She was conscripts thus, I certainly is infamous meant that I just wasn't the casing. Actually, it wasn't the case that she was more famous. No sir rosemary care all who we briefly touched upon earlier was correct and Courtney lawyer and, like we mentioned last week, court Kurt had asked her to remove Courtney from his well rosemary care also told Tom Grant that court me had told her to find and higher the meanest most vicious divorce lawyer that she could find
since wholesome yeah. She was in love with her a man like totally rocket out till they were just gonna rock. Until then mode Next Tom Grant felt from day one thought he'd this like from day one than he hired that corny love was lying to the entire time he dealt with her. He was like yeah, I'm gonna document the fuck out of this, because I know she's lie which is so smart. It shows how smart you like, I'm gonna, make sure this is on tape. it all is the end you guys should all I know I have mentioned the current and Courtney Document reads like a curtain Courtney, how Netflix, but you should watch the each Veo documentary soaked in bleach, because now that's a great longing Austria and there's like a ton of tape. Support me that, if you're not sold by our podcast, you should definitely be sold when you hear them yeah here her actual voice, saying these things in Tom Grant has a website where he has a lot of their according to do. I can't run
but a website you know, but all post it when we put the photos for this up as a right, so she contacted Tom Grant on the basis that Kurt had escaped rehab and he was suicidal and she knew tat. He had a shotgun, but her first thought was to cancel his credit cards. That was the first she's, told time that she did. She said he suicidal. I know he has a shock on and I cancel this credit card. Why would you cancel his credit, like that? Doesn't make any I can tell you if my, Husband went missing. The first thing I would do would definitely not be thinking of, his credit cards. Are all we know that eighty suicidal yeah he's gonna kill himself. So why you worried that he's gonna spend any money because he's probably not because he proudly he's gonna, kill me exactly Then, if you were actually worried that he was like missing missing, you would want him to have a method of you getting annoying. So it's like. Maybe let him keep those credit cards. I don't know, Sir LAB, seems odd. Show me was super super pushy about the fact that he was suicidal. She
sure anyone who listened knew that Kurt was suicidal, but only after he died right. Like eight said she never mentioned it until he died until he died in the whole time that Tom Grant was look at tat. I can tell you is listening it raised me. She also brought up the topic of divorce, pretty much every single time she spoke with Tom Grant normal she knew that he said she knew Kurt was leaving her and then she started talking about custody battles and how Kurt what it stand a chance against her all, which actually is untrue, because remember that time, when cheated heroin, mobile and now you have our time here. Corti also brought up the idea of a curt was having an affair with her based player actually well or his drug dealer named Caitlin. I couldn't find out who Kalen but she knew his every single move and she, super jealous, and she mentioned Mr Tomlinson, he's like what the fuck does. It have to do with me, he'll think using words. She was pissed when he
hold out of Lollapalooza, saying that she had first been offered the gig and she gave it all up so that he can. She thought likely to abolish wireless like none of this is pertinent the current situation, not at all. She then told Tom Grant. That's you We wanted a story in the press saying that she was hospitalized for a nervous breakdown and wanted his advice, whether to confirm it or not. When the press contact in her for comment which is interesting, because she also wrote that model of get arrested, but she already in the back of her mind, was like I'm gonna plant, the story in the press, so she had multiple alibis wall, multiple alibis, that I didn't even know. She felt that one it would make fan fans feel sympathy her and to sell records because she had one coming out in about a week. How shitty of a person here beat a bit. I want to manipulate the entire world into feeling bad for media. Like fucker go fuck yourself
Personally, I think she wanted to mended manipulate fans into thinking that she was such a mass over curbing missing of again planting the idea everyone's mind that he was suicidal and, like I said it gave her an alibi known for, when he was found them so that we get to the missing persons report, which we quickly mentioned. I guess I can just reiterated It went out in the media that Kurtz mother had filed the missing persons are poor and she considered helped him be suicidal and in the possession of a shock on which again just plants, the idea that he was suicidal lines of his fans, anxious reiterating and she put it. She literally line on a police report like you should be arrested for them. That way that solely see signed it. His bonds name, one d, o Connell. I remember Wendy, o cool. Yet, like you lied, that is that's fraudulent, but it's ok, right, yeah, so she's giving Tom grant all this information about it
where he could be invaluable and he's like yeah. I feel it would be a good idea for me to put surveillance sir aliens, surveillance on the Seattle House- and she insisted that he wouldn't be there now, colleagues, their colleagues looking out, because if the entire time that Kurt was supposedly missing, Kelly was staying at the Seattle House. Her waiting for a sign of she's waiting. Yeah dissuaded, waiting shit What time did he wouldn't be there and that he liked to hang out and fancy hotels and he the name Simon Virtue or Bill Bailey to check in did you know a bill. Bailey is found by though I know it is a quick side. Now I guess that's the name, that is that it see their actual roses, real name, really or it's the name he uses and they used to have like some weird feud. I guess so. He would use that name. Just a few dick. That's amazing. I fucking love her copyright so much at Lisbon.
so she said that he would say that the chicken under those names, so Tom called like all these. Fancy ass hotels in Seattle area in didn't find anything because didn't need not even like no, his friend Dylan Karlsson, who Tom was like he was helping quote Unquote Tom, oh yeah underlines the guy. You bought him. The shop girl current gas, which I'm gonna get into Dylan later because I had my theory- is no good evening. Dylan Domes like no. We fucking hate fancy hotels, they Kurt that is everything Kurt hey, I was gonna, say loudly totally against what he's tickets showed him, let that all the motels that they would stay on our hotel knows motels holiday to anyways
And they were on the Aurora Strip. This which is like, I guess not, and I say so then Tom started to call those motels and he did find one Bill Bailey saying in a motel no, but it was a dead. I'm never worked out. So when Tom went back to Courtney and was like yeah, none of these leads are working out he's not in any motels. I really think that we should put surveillance on the Seattle House. She again it was a waste of time. Kelly was there and he was gonna. Let her know if somebody showed up and she also the so at first she told Tom. The collie was the best liars had ever met closer. He was likely. Why would you then trust him to tell you like? Why would you leave him in charge of telling you in court showed exactly also? Why would you ever leave him in charge of your tribal debts living? It's killing me like this literally drug addicts, who you can't you just said is like one of the greatest liars you ve ever met here,
leaving with your baby, with your like English. What exactly so? Finally, Thomas Equity like fuck, you, I think it's really time to bring the investigation to Seattle, so like around April six and that's when Courtney told him to talk to dealing Karlsson We insisted that Kurt was in no way suicidal and he then called Tom Grant Dylan called Tom Grant and said that Corky had called him saying she was in the hospital and had been arrested, but that she was ok and they should go to the house to check. This like hitting compartment for the Shaka, because that's where it would be so this is when she got arrest. This is all rolling out so perfectly affair, so they got there too. The Seattle House Dylan didn't point. It was like a really darken rainy, so Tom didn't notice the greenhouse say because it the greenhouse, wasn't like agree now, so is a yeah. It was literally like a broom closet on the top of
garage here it was just like it looked like a green and you wouldn't know to set. If you didn't know it was there near, it probably just looked like part of the variety and expressly if it's dark right and it was dark when they went so, he didn't notice the greenhouse and don't say anything about the greenhouse the night. They went there, Sir when they got there on the stairs they found. No, that was written by Kelly. It was from colleague to Kurt saying Kurt. I can't believe you got into this house without me noticing you're an asshole for doing this, to Courtney, call her and tell her you're, ok and it was like it's like a little bit more, but it was like very like insincere and lacks very stage. It was very. They found it on the stairs. So I would I on current God into the house. So it literally cell enough for girls went into the house. Colleagues,
and there he la- I didn't even know saying here. So everyone knows I didn't even know you came into the exact while it's like really heavy him, insane so Tom and Rosemary care. All who was the wearer liquid mentioned thought the note with super weird and Rosemary Carol said it was like Kali already knew that Kurt was dead when he d up one hundred percent, meaning. The note was there to prevent alibi that Kurt had been there one and two to throw Tom Grant off, because if Kurt was There- and he wasn't any more- where was he then yet then you're gonna leave also they had been to the house the night before and the note wasn't there the night before so it had been there like that morning yet or something and they checked the scene
compartment backward had mentioned, and it wasn't? There are, of course not because Kurt was laid down in the great them ass. They were there. Unfortunately, Salazar greenhouse yachts, horrific. I really is awful. You search the whole house, but you dont search like he knew about the reality, knew that existed right. If you're searching the whole house for your friend, who is missing, you're, gonna search the whole exactly so the next morning, Kurtz body was found and not exact house in the Green room or the greenhouse whenever they call it, which was a little room like I said above the garage that no one had even told grant to look into and embryos. Forty second, how she neatly a day on new that room was there and if you're, that alarmed- and you can't find your husband, you're gonna check every single inch of the oh, yes and you're gonna tell your private investigator to check every inch. Yes, I dont care it like check, closet check behind shades, hydro, literally Billy Chad, later check under lampshade neighbourhood, be under the cap should be under like find him yeah.
so what so Tom Grant was there like. He rushed over the morning when he found out that Kurdistan in he like pushed through everybody and went to talk to the police, and he told the police on the scene that he had been hired by Courtney, love to track down Kurt and that he had been in the house the previous night and was told that no one had time to talk to him into hall. The station later and you literally said he was like if he was a police officer, he was like if I was in charge of the investigation and a man came to me said. I was in the house that night would handcuff him, unlike nor let him get away he's at our meeting. He was at the scene, Europe is a sign of the crime and I don't have time to go. They were moving out of your crime, so I don't have time to talk to you important. I witness as is often the sea now, and so he went to the station later, but they wouldn't listen to anything
and I M like everything he said they had an answer for while an ice like if the police were actually treating less like a homicide investigation which they were the second they walked and are they treated it like a suicide? They would have wanted to speak to solve the source, of course they would have, and they also just recently developed photographs from the scene. or the lot of the photographs from the scene were not developed, so they were just taken as like tell him we're here. We have this camera and when they were questioned about it they said that they didn't develop photographs from suicide scenes and that's all does not and which is literally not true and also not stand or protocol. Now, no matter what you know of the photos, yeah evidence and they also ruled it to be a suicide. I don't know if we mentioned this before, but they wrote it.
To be a suicide before ever getting the forensic of fingerprints or toxic toxicology reports or anything? That's crazy to me: they rule day ruled the death the next year, the next day next year. They said they did the autopsy that day but he you're right. He didn't wait for talk screens, nothing and that is wait for anything that is not Sandra. They did it wiped vows for prints. They didn't tell you anything now and court. You told the media that her had written a suicide note to her before that said, in part quote, I can't live like this anymore, it's not fun for me, but that's not the original, and a note saying that has never been released and to me that sounds like I dont want to be married to you and he never is ironic on Friday, like this marriages shit,
and she actually in the beginning of certain bleach at some point in certain bleach. Excuse me: she references the note to Tom and she's, like God was underneath my pillow case, like I think she said it was a note from Rome when, like Quota, First, you yeah, I'm the one that doctors agreed was now does not aside it. What's funny about that, so she said she was it. It was under my pillows in Seattle House and Tom was like that's interesting because I checked your pillows. I checked underneath applause I checked, underneath the matter Subject everywhere in your room and it wasn't there and she had no explanation. She was like why she was like no, it was easily No, he was like a Tom, it was. It was in a White Manila Envelope and he was again. I want to believe you court you, but I do but, like my too
eyeballs didn't see you say now: it's not a failure, so, like we mentioned before, Rosemary Carol, was actually working pretty closely with Tom, with Tom Grant and then all of a sudden after she gave him the back pack that had the handwriting Randall s handwriting samples she wasn't interested in talking to anywhere in there's a phone conversation where there, in the middle of talking about and she goes Tom. Is this being recorded and he's a guy? I record alma calls and she is she all the sudden shuts up and we'll talk about it. I had and then courting calls him and she's like you are, so he said he starts to send rosemary care. All these letters, like you know like I know you know more than you are saying and like there's there's all these like copycat suicide, yeah of area and like you have you could stop the sitting
however, that this wasn't a suicide and she wouldn't answer him at all shoe and respond rosemary, and then Courtney called Tom, and was that you really scaring rosemary, like paid her off the first of a star, the exact and so the other thing about the suicide note is a few like analyse, have looked at it and, first of all, the entire beginning part is just about his music. It's just like Nirvana was breaking up at the time Yanukovych Dave girl today, girl confirmed it were on the Howard Stern show he was dead and advertising are breaking up, resolving the entire, its literally like over to parents that just talking about the music and then the end is the only time he mentions anything about family, anything about Courtney, anything about France s in anything that even resembles a suicide note, because the entire thing is not like the whole. Beginning of the note is not a suicide note.
And the handwriting analyse and like the just no analyse in general, that sort of thing, but what No no analysed I note like this one lady was like it was so stereotypical, it's what you would think a suicide note tat, which is never the cakes. I my family, like I'm, leaving I'll, see you some day again, like the exact carbon, a fuckin written like that any ways, and wasn't there like a part in the first part where he says, like my nauseous stomach yeah, he talks about here. My stomach pain was over at that point, yet he did In our view, that said, like I ate a whole pizza, not the other night, and I've never been able to do that
feel great yeah and they were like all around him. We're lucky never felt better because he got the many a night he needed to be treated so that doesn't even makes sense. It doesn't make any sense at all, and just a quick and interesting theory is that some people believe Elden I'll do CHE. Hope had something to do with or some more knowledge about, the death of Kirk obeyed, and he said he said that Corti love offered him fifty thousand dollars to kill Cobain, and she said, like my old man's pissing me off blows head off, which is nice. You know couple shit and after an interview that he gave on April nineteenth ninety ninety seven, where he spilled this event.
Jim and also implicated, someone named Alan. He was hit by a train days later, while lying drunk on the tracks, I'm sorry, but he's after he gave the interview he was found dead on the train tracks because he apparently got drunk and laid down under which he was a pretty reckless dude, but that's real rack, but that site Craig for end the again The coincidence that that's just by man, no one person has this many coincidences surrounding them at one time. Now, I'm sorry you just don't like Really love is not this like just this special unicorn that happens to have them. Worst coincidence is around Courtney, loves own dad think she knows more than she says that he wrote a book, I'm dead serious there, but in my opinion, court he knew the court was leaving her. She knew she wasn't gonna get nearly as much as she wanted because of their pre up agreement. Because again
she thought she was gonna, be the more famous one. So she asked for that pre now, yeah, which in then are granted because he was making all that money and she was gonna, see any exactly and because she's a selfish, arrogant, controlling piece of shit. She had Kurt what a more bird. She had a mind to see, had Kurt murdered, knowing that she could make it look like a suicide based on the misconstrued lyrics and statements that colonel made in the past. and she knew she didn't even need the money, but she just wanted it in the court. You got what you want and that you didn't know that money at all, it was just a matter of her. Being I mean to leave shit she's, a musician herself. She write band and now she has all of the royalties: to cut down the big thing all of the estate money, all like everything, I'm sure she got like like wrongful death out only yes, but that it is the songs thing that, unlike that is like the hardest pill to swallow that she has,
tall and rather resides especially when their surviving members of the band United Mean and they learn control. When he literally called his lawyer and said the king, you write her out of my will and he just didn't have time to sign it before it happens. And chief Polly Fucking got word that he was gonna, write her out of the well and was like a really. I'm a right you out of life. She didn't pull the trigger I, but maybe she did it. Similarly, I don't, I don't believe she was there. I dont think she pulled the trigger, but I think she paid solid monies to some, Neither did I know I'm anonymously. She she made damn sure that she has alibis that say she. What does wasn't there now, those are so I can say. Definitely she wasn't there, but I know she knows she's had enough, and I know she has way more hands in this whole thing since said it, but if, after all, we ve
then to do you think something different we want to hear it. Targets were totally open to listen to it. We're not. We may not agree with the sunset order of open to it like a little over a moderate and close to all. Listen to it, but already two she's, like listen court, he's gonna write a fuckin book just like all jaded. If I did, if I did like maybe Corti, rather for him who maybe someday, we will get the full story. We some day, some deathbed Sundays gonna be very lucrative in this. So yeah again It went where joking when we say we don't wanna, hear network and if you guys have any more theories by all means thrown away. Let us know we all want to discuss it. That's what it's for! That's what the Facebook group is far too YO discuss it. Let us know we hope you Doug per Cobain, to about you. Did we think you did so. We would like to thank this week's patreons. Maybe, let's think ten, just like really do this. What to do it right? So I would like to thank our new page,
on Chin and ass shown in F, you given a ah I'll see you here, and I would also like to thank our new Patria named Sarah me Sarah makes. You saw me girl. Thank you so much. Sarah thanks there I'd also like to thank our picture on this week. Megan Ward, Megan Ward, you're, the warden of my heart. I feel that we should give you in a word. We shed HA thing, love you Megan, thankyou. I'd also like to thank this week, Morgan, Gruber, Morgan, Gruber you.
a goober you're such a groove hopping son, don't even the best goober there ever was. Thank you so much. You I'd also like to thank our patriotic Jessica Grant Jessica Grant. I grant you access to my soul. Yes, because you that great, thank you so much. Thank you thanks also Jack Slaughter. Thank you, Jack Slaughter, slaughter wages fit right the fuck! I welcome the outcome to the thank you. Jack also pay hotter, Stephen caisson say you couldn't even Kazan. You are the coolest, I thought I was like. While I was really you know why I just I just love you. I just love you, I just
the Gaza flustered. Thank you so much. I just love yet hey pretty Wilson. He Courtney Wilson. Thank you! Courtney, girl! You do you smell great. I think I feel like you do. I don't know she always to secure weird place. I would also like to thank woman. On top pod cast woman on tar pod cast, you guys are clearly also go. Listen to that plaid gas! Everybody knows about what it sounds great about women on TAT, ominous start listening to by taking women on top pine cast you guys rock you are on top also. I would like to think on Libya. Ass Mackenzie, Lydia S Mackenzie. I just M Speechless Betsy rendered me speechless. I'm done I just love, you have thank you so much Livia. Thank you so much eminency, two more because I don't know how many
said the new, also Daniel Car, while ski wow wow ski louse, just bonus away. So thank you so much curiosity. Also. Last but not least, I would like to thank Vicki and Alec per Gerardi Vicki in output Roddy. Thank you for doing that together. Yes, I love the team group work. Team work makes the dream work any lovey if we make this podcast work with all of your help, team return assume thank you and good night. Thank you so much I love you. I love you so much so in the meantime, you can follow us on Instagram at morbid broadcast followers on twitter at a morbid podcast. Allow us on Facebook morbid calling at your grand podcast
join my facebook group because you guys are lacking and you could turn into a pitcher and if you feel so unkind, Patria one dot, com, slash morbid podcast, and you could check out the lovely website that my beautiful co host Alina, so awesomely desire and at hey, hey, Morbid Parker start coming hey, hey, hey. We hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it. We heard bonanza where these are two track Iraq's hours, every move- and you say I'll- have to do that. I and the new Sardinian that guy and then you fall in love and you got married and pajamas and then you have a baby, but you did heroin while you're pregnant with that baby and then all of a sudden he wants to divorce. Even your like, not gonna. Imagine you fucked up. As murdering you kill the shit out of him. When we all know you did it Corti thanks by lot that weird, I feel some type of way about this case.
But you know what we don't know for sure. Would you say.
Summer is here, and why was blueberry cobbler coffee is bad for a limited time enjoy noted blueberry, buttery brown, crumble and fragrant. Vanilla flavors is every every stop. Stop indeed try this perfect summer cup or you can use the why why to order ahead or get it delivered make your morning even brighter, with a cup of freshly brute blueberry, cobbler coffee back for a limited time, gotta have a while.
The moment you write a river through downtown the moment you step into acres of lush gardens the moment you find what could possibly be the best thing you ve ever tasted. This is Virginia Richmond region, a place filled with moments to be had with art, lining the streets, insights into our story, as people and outdoor adventures, waiting to be discovered, go to visit, Richmond, vs dot com to learn more about the Richmond region then find your moment
Transcript generated on 2021-07-05.