« Morbid: A True Crime Podcast

Episode 80: The Murder of Maddie Clifton "Mini" Morbid

2019-07-13 | 🔗
It's an Alaina Mini Morbid, which means it is longer than an average full length episode. Trust us, it is worth it because this case is a truly horrific but endlessly fascinating look into the mind of a secretly troubled young boy who fooled absolutely everyone in his life. Unfortunately, it was young, precious, vivacious Maddie Clifton was on the receiving end of his break from reality. *****TRIGGER WARNING*****This case involves the death of a child and it is hard to hear. We warn ahead of time when it will be discussed, so you can skip accordingly if you feel like you need to! Sources: Kids who Kill: Joshua Phillips: True Crime Press Series 1, Book 1 by Kathryn McMaster https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20170810/19-years-later-narrative-behind-maddie-cliftons-demise-gets-even-worsehttps://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5573932/joshua-phillips-children-who-kill-maddie-clifton/
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Right now. Why was inviting you to come in for your dinner, favorites after four p m and earn two times the rewards on your purchase? Build your perfect during fries or get a fresh big. Hospitable poor, grab your favor poppies, salads and more get your reward twice as fast by shopping. Your dinner favorites after four p M wow rewards members earn two times that rewards now give June thirtieth get the world Why apple joined today. Hey weirdos, I'm still ash and I'm still await this shit is still morbid as fuck and many Many many many many many more bad, many morbid, many morbid, maybe more
many and I always forget to save you. Definitely there are no here. You are and title says that its many and you know why it's actually not many. I was just going to say this is not a mini and in light of the people in fact, and I'll explain this. At the end of the episode this may have a little branch off of it. That goes into my next. Many lie: love, trees, so trees. They provide oxygen, it correct love them. Yup me up to keep those around so wages to nerds, who think we're funny, it's my favorite negative review ever I don't even look at it as a negative review. I am a nerd and I do think I'm funny. Do your foot think on the funding. We re ever really given issue. About any very negative easily, because we're just like in that place now, where we don't care about negative reviews and weak
Much more about all the beautiful lovely listeners who leave us beautiful, thoughtful, delightful, positive reviews, because you can the best. So we sometimes hear when I'm sad. I read the positive review because you guys are so thoughtful and just nice in your articulates- and I just we love you- we read literally every single one of them all of them and they touch our black our hearts and our somewhat soul said the one negative review that we also loved so much was but he who literally just said they're just to learn that you think they're funny and, unlike you know, but you're, not wrong. Aus, like you know what nailed it does not, ass information. Sally Erect that's really all that's not business, but that's all business we attend to and on many morbid. So let's do I've read it What's your many morbid about my many morbid? Let's just call your fuckin word and my full ass more
my full ass. More I'm not going to tell you I'm so Legion, two minutes If you know this case, this is kind of like a well known case. I would think don't say that, because I probably won't know in Africa one November. Third, ninety ninety eight, I was life you were fairly, but you realize outside to their barely two years on. years. That's not a lot. Eight year old, Madeline Mattie Re Clifton, who was born June seventeen nineteen ninety arrived home from school to her home in full, will end on Fleetwood. Road, liquid, Jacksonville Florida live on Fleetwood Road yeah. Fleetwood powerfully, which has consequences that thing down and I get it that evening she sat down and play the piano sometime around, like five o clock, so after she did her piano practice. It was about twitter, minutes later, and she and off to chip. Some Gulf balls with
a guy named Larry Gresham who lives at the end of the street. I love that. Mattie was like a little tomboy. She loves sports shoes like super tough like they describe. As tough as nails at one point when she could also be like a ballerina Rachel She was super well rounded, just like this cool will check the second paragraph eight year, exactly like Mary was so cool I don't like where this idea she came back home she was like Mama needs. More gulf of swill asked them. So this is the last time her mother her now little warning ahead of time. I am going to give you a big warning when I discuss it, but there is, a child death. Obviously this one, but I will let you know when things get a little narrowly here, because I person we hate children's death cases, as well like I have problems, reading or listening to them, but I think this one is really important to tell me so by
Six twenty p m that night. Herman, Matisse mom Sheila Clifton. She called for her in her older sister, who was, I believe, eleven years old Jessica to come in. She called for dinner and that's this just what they did like this. As you know the place they were all the sack, everybody knew each other so, and I mean even when I used to play outside when I was little, our parents is called US infant inner like we were playing around the name It used to be a very normal family like it sounds crazy now, but it's like back, then it really wasn't that big of a deal. Now when just when she calls them for dinner, Jessica comes and immediately. Oh, no and matters not with her, so because, like I haven't seen Mattie for awhile, I didn't even know she was out play so, of course your mom's like White, which I can't even fathom the amount of just like sit like that managing a legit. I can like feel it
so she immediately starts going to neighbours. Houses. Could she knows them and she's saying Where then even humanity? No one has seen her. So she starting to literally panic and she standing on her frontline screaming Matisse name God, which I totally get cousins. Like. That's like quick little side. Note my Kids are three and a half years old. I twins one, they don't go anywhere without me, seeing them really fun broiling too much, I suppose, idols these issues- I let you can't be now and we were out in our backyard the other day and one of them when in the house, without telling me to go, get something and I happened to turn around and see only one of them. I screwed reamed, her name in such a state of panic that she started to cry out for the house, and I ran to her nose.
but I didn't know where you want do like I reach I freaked out It happened like that. It's like you ate. These things can happen in the matter of seconds, so it's when they do when it happens, even for a split. Second, it's like every scenario, must go through your absolutely so yeah Simon Lazy, mom, just seen a patent so unfortunately yeah, so her mother Sheila was absolutely freaking out by this point in soon. The entire neighbourhood started searching around wine. It's like it's a cul de sac. She can you fucking gone far about someone seeing something I'm sure everybody in the neighborhood is like. Well what wait a second like we all know each other, and we all know that you can see a car come engulf me. I hold a sock, so they like wait a second now her foot other Steve, who was a soup Visor at a metal shop. He said quote: is like she shut the door and just poof vanished off the face of the earth. Oh my god that makes my heart
yeah. So by six thirty, three p m approximately. Sheila Clifton had had enough, and she called my mom on my majestic I'm not fucking around here That is so. That name did I mean adults chill and everybody in the neighborhood and around that neighbourhood, when foreign searches- before volunteering everywhere, Jessica, overheard, older sister was like eleven was riding her bike through the neighbourhood screaming Maggie's, namely this was a huge. This is hurting my soul yeah, so am I mean in this was in the middle of the night, people had flashlights out they when all through the night, looking for her she's couldn't find her anywhere. Now somebody who was with these searchers, was a neighbor who lived very close to the Clifton House. He was a fourteen year old. He often
played with Maddy in his name was Joshua Josh, Philips. Okay, now Mattie was apparently patently liked him a lot like like to play with him up. Even though he's fourteen and she's eight later, we will see that that is a source of contention. At one point they went for hours and hours all through the night next morning. Nowhere to be found the following day, a Jacksonville sheriff's office, detective decided the door to door and started talking to each neighbour trying to get stories out where people were that night, like just, were any other hangar. What happened here? No one give any useful information as they were all they all had alibis? They were all friends with the Clifton, and they were like, we we didn't, we never saw are like she wasn't here. She wasn't playing with our kid.
so there was one person that they kind of focused on at first. His name was Larry Gresham, the guy that she went to chip Gulf also it is this like an actual guy. Well, that's the thing when I first read it as a co. Larry Grissom, she's gonna play with their aggression is a man. He was a forty five year old man who like to play with children. And I dont mean you, I am not suggesting that he liked to a quota globally with a two year, but he did have a criminal history involved twenty nine arrests to his name. I am or blending elzevir alike aren't you see had Anders name where things like Otto theft Do you guys, but there were two counts of sexual battery five years apart from each other, both of those were dropped. Ok are on his record, ok and they do not say that their against the chapel, ok, but still either way. So
that's a little stressful into exactly so, I'm not sure. What's going on with their but I'm eyes, I mean blaming anybody by parliament, let my eight year old play with forty yeah, we can accept. That might be a little weird, but I guess if they you know she's she's outside with him. There hidden golf falls here. Maybe they could see house from where you re right rebate, I mean Personally, I would have liked. I can't speak for alpine no good. Forty year old has an eight year old guarantees that I know licences and feel raise our kid according to Larry when they, when they discuss with him, like you were the last person to see that supposably was with her. So what happened that night? So he said that night, around five hundred and fifteen p dot m they had their was like a strip of land between his home and neighbour's house. And they were using that strip which was really close to Matisse House? I guess it was like five doorstep. ok they're using that stripped shipped off balls share, so they were
out in the open people could see them and he's Mary went to get some more gulf balls, but she didn't come back, so he said from what I figured the her parents wanted her to stay home because it was getting a little later was five fifteen in the dinner was running was ready. Something like I was a really concerned about it right. That was there any said. That's it that's! The last I saw my support did take him in for more questioning and he did fail. Polygraph, ok, but we know how polygraph can be like fucking as useful as like a fuckin hotdog, an attorney like its letters that a real thing- I don't know where that just came from I didn't know I was like- is if the real expression it feels like that's, not very useful, a hot dog and entrenched go when I want the drama that for us I just really want a hot dog. So I think that's why that Came to me and then it I feel you on one in a trench, go for you can
the slow cigar. So we failed the polygraph, but you know you ve got to talk to don't go. It's hot dogs, Albans so leave did search Larry's house, they searched it nine times huts I think they were really trying to nail this guy. Why are you hired a cause? They didn't have anything else. I think that you gotta be eight, you, the last guy, you sorry you're forty five years old playing with it and you might have you found this extensive record to they questioned him twenty times. He was able to provide a strong alibi and readily gave them dna samples, okay, so he's not sooner Stephen Sheila maladies. Parents are sitting here having to think Big possibly somebody who's five doors down for me has Mattie very some, and her baby. You know she's alive dead. What I can
imagine how crazy they muslin. And can you imagine how worried you are about your other child to exactly and how worried everybody in the neighborhood is yeah you're fuckin kid exactly and apparently they did station a police. Officer or a couple of leave us didn't home because they were worried about Jessica. We don't know what this is about right, so may someone is gonna come in just goes boiling fuckin terrified, oh yeah in ITALY, hundreds of volunteers are still scouring the neighbourhood, their scouring. The nearby would swamps anything new nothing's coming. They did a house to house search with cadaver dogs. The Eu S, Army Reserve even came in to go time halls and shit yeah crazy, so they they had missing person, posters printed like they were posted everywhere, and everyone was wearing yellow ribbons and were hanging them on trees, formatted, my heart, so this was a huge search. I mean this was nothing
These are now on Sunday of that week, even the Jaguars football coaches were wearing the ribbon, oh yeah, so this was huge, of course nothing. So this is when the Clifton were like. We have to go to the press, look we have carried out. We have to do some way. I do like we have to offer game here. So they went. On tv and they begged whoever had her to please let her go. They offered fish. Two thousand dollar reward for any news, her whereabouts stem Two thousand dollars is a lot of money and they said we there is a possibility of doubling it who are they literally like one hundred and ninety nine? I get her home gone. and then they addressed her directly and they said quote Mattie. If you are out there and you can hear us, we are ready for you to come back home. Please come home and your mom was like sobbing, oh dont, really just yet her. My soul, they had tee shirts with her face on them they
there was more than ten billboards throughout Jacksonville with her face on them. This is giving me child. This went on for in this was a whole week, so Seven days after Mattie went missing. The Clifton went on to good morning America and this is when they were just trying to again plea for her captor to let her go if she was lively, cannot just anything while they were wrapping up this segment and good morning America Mattie was found. So let's go to the Philips House bouquet. Not. Unless you want to be so Melissa, Missus Phillips is Josh, Philip Small So this was seven days after Mattie went missing, Miss Philips is getting ready for work. She just sent Josh after school, so she had a few like. I think she had a couple of hours Bashir before she had to go to work here so
she said it was just after seven a m and she said she was like. You know what I've been asking Josh to clean his fucking room. I noticed all we and I haven't done it so she was like I had this time and I was I'm going start getting rid of shit because she said. Not only was it an absolute pigsty, but she said there was this fucking disgusting odor coming from Now she said quote: I've been nagging him about his room because it was in deplorable condition. So I had a guard bag and I was going to start putting stuff in that I knew was trash. He had three birds that he kept in his room. Who often times if he didn't change the cage out. Ok, it would start smiling, but she did say this smells much worse. I think he had two parakeets in a cocktail
and she said she figured. It was like a combo of the birds and he's fourteen years old. Maybe has some like rotting food if Serbia, so she was like I'm going in there and vine fourteen year old boys, too small about anyway, exactly so well she's cleaning. She said she noticed, a damp spot on the floor this day, spot was on the corner of Josh's bed, which was a water bed She immediately like shit. The water bed is leaking each other. As someone who had a water bed when I was younger, your fuck that shit leaks, the time and it sucks, understand why she immediately was like off back there. what do you mean? Yeah? She said? quote. I was thinking. Maybe it's mildew, you know or moulds. Maybe that's what disorder is running from the leaking waterbed she's like what the fuck Is this now? Yes, so she said she touched the corner, the mattress and it was absolutely soaked socially
said she looked in a little bit more because she can get up. Waterbeds are bullshit and she was afraid she was going to have to literally drain the whole thing. That's what you have to do when they leak so they're like not if I don't even know if their thing anyway, I dont like things to be here. I think it's like a gene mattresses like the new, probably, which makes a lot more sense. So after she looked at the bed frame- and she said she noticed that those black electrical tape holding one of the corners together, just like her said about so she said she also notice that there was something like a sock in there and she was like. Oh, how do you get one of his socks and like in the bed frame link below show my kids like what is wrong with you just so then, like this tape is weird because she's a you, never taped his bed frame before so she peeled the tape. Apart and cracked open the coroner panel- and she said it was dark under that bed with as little cavern between the waterbed Matter,
Listen like the box spring and she said she went and had to go, get a flashlight cuz. She like, I can't see anything so she said she lived did it up again and put the flashlight in there, and she said she saw something absolutely horrific inside. She calls her husband, Steve and she gets his voice mail and she just says the voicemail says: please call home. Please it's an emergency, oh god, now heating callback. So she said I knew I needed to get someone social new. The neighbourhood had a ton of police around, so recalling that no one in this, seven thirty am she ran outside and just ran up to the nearest police officer who this poor woman off their Donald F Hutton. I think is he was part of the Jacksonville Sheriff's office, you sitting in an unmarked in his marked police car, and he was surveillance duty, because someone constantly right now
He said he saw this woman run out of her house at six thousand, one hundred and thirty nine Fleetwood Street and she was running up to his vehicle. So she he can see the crying like totally destroyed. So he could only cycle can I help you this going on social in barely get out which he needs him to do and she's. oh hysterical. Finally, she manages to tell him she's found something out her home and he needs to come see it. Okay, so he's like we re really. Can you just maybe give me a hand here he's like fun puzzle? I feel just what I love my line of work, so he said what is it that you found great he's like I can't say, she's like please, please, please, just come she's no use. I can you just fuckin till his honestly. I don't I don't want to. I can imagine being with you like. I will like oh, no, I'm busy that now I don't want you so he's smartly radioed for two other detectives to come
closing the thinkers. Imagine Jakob just be like some crazy lady. Exactly like I want you to see this bomb, I made exactly so. I think he's like yeah, I'm gonna get people calling for back now they're, so the three detectives ended up following back to her house and she brings him to justify them to Josh's run, but she says I can't I can't go in insufficient. Said quote. I just pointed to where they needed to look. I couldn't even going this poor poor woman so Officer Soulis, who is one of the detectives, opened the door and he said he immediately smell, deafened decay, and so that we know what that smells like, and I said I am media. We knew it. That's my bike, so he said the bottom have any of the water bed was left open and he said sticking out from the corner. We can clearly see two small feed clad in white socks who legislate it's something to yeah yeah it slowly.
Immediately Missy Philip started sobbing and like screaming? I just singer, because now it's real, so officer TAT took away outside in he was like you, you have to tell me what the hell you found this look. What happened here so she said quote as I lifted the corner the mattress. I note The white sock and figured it was one of Josh's, so I started to pull on it, but it wouldn't be oh my god, I wondered how it got there in the first place and was puzzled as to why it would not pull free about that time. I noticed black electrical tape holding the black frame of the pedestalled together and surmise. The bed must have been leaking for quite some time and apparently Josh had attempted to hold it together with the tape. So you wouldn't get into trouble, which is running theme with this cases, national one again drivel. Aren't you not feel the foot in the sock she will? She did the tape freely pulled away from the pedestal, and the wood gave way just enough that I could at least see the sock better.
I grabbed it in this time felt something else. Sorry, so I went to another room and retreat a flashlight as I pulled the pedestal slightly away, the sock fell down and I felt something called at the same time. The beam of the flashlights showed me something I could never have been prepared to see. It could not be what I thought it was yet somehow I knew exactly what I had found the missing little girl from across the street I just got to respond here, so I mean and she was freaking out because she was like. I have I just it. I had to implicate my own son yeah. That's a year. I had to do it like this is someone else's baby, but that is my baby. You know like what fucking why? When so, this is one officer. Tat was like. Ok, where is your son and she was like he's on the school bus on his way to school right now, God
So, and she also said quote, I remember looking at the Clifton houses. I walked towards the patrol car thinking right now. They still have hope in a few minutes till now. my rights, you are destroying me, I know so. This times. Josh's father Steve had got the voice mail, so he was rushing home cause all he knew he doesn't even know it was an emergency. That's all right, so we got there like a million police cars. He is allowed inside his house he's like what the fuck is going on as this, going on this is when detectives knocked on the Clifton store and she went Steve captain said they knew immediately wasn't good, controlling their faces and after seeing all these, these cars swarm house near them. They were like yeah. This can't be, which I just can't even imagine it's like he gives me such a patent rights
They all sat down with them and they told them, though they did find Maddy. She was an old hand. Her fathers first question was: where did you find her and the officer said across the street? Oh God, which must have now destroyed? then knowing for the whole, we entire that seven votes day yeah like you a whole week she's been you right, like a yards away from you have no idea how long she's been alive. You don't know what she's gone. I mean just the thoughts them be running through your brain as apparent unbelievable to me. Can't even link bring myself to emulate. You can think about it, but you can't even place you think about it, but you can't the thing about it. Then you want to run as far away from it as possible. You want to get on a train, a plane and automobile and get the fuck out of say yes, thou here next
Who is Josh, however, answers? I read it this job. I just vote, therefore weird I thought it a new job. there is nothing funny about that is busy, but there are lots of funny things about my notes so whose Josh, let me now I'm gonna, let you know any up. Sir Joshua Earl, Patrick Philips was born March, seventeen nineteen eighty four, I thought people three names were reared, but maybe we both foreign aims, are like extra food yeah. I think so. I think this proves that you are extra food and he's the only child of Stephen Melissa. Philips. Now he does have to older half brothers that were only moved out of the house. We didn't really grow up with them, so use essentially efforts Dounia plug them. So when Josh was born
He was a happy healthy, very normal baby, nothing to report during the birth of, unlike oh shit, why tat is now they said he was We smiling as a baby and a child he was his. Is parents describe him as a pleasure all that The family did move several times over the years, but Josh remained like a happy talkative kid super friendly with everyone didn't seem to bother him. He made friends easily Hugh super active and he was like a really curious child winking those kids, that a leg need to know why the skies blue flag, which is a good thing. You know why your kids, ass light was exactly
in only by all accounts. He seems like he's, like a very like you know, average very good, like veto, healthy child deadly, doing everything you I could see. Do you like going to zoos he loved animals? He left going to museums, seal of science, like an early age. He was a member of the cub Scouts, ah rose all the way to Wolf CUB, which means absolutely nothing to me I don't know what that means. I'm sure someone listening knows what that means. I miss I mean it's, the CUB Scouts, a Wolf cub sounds repartee diesel I feel like Eagle, covers like the best you can get. I dont think eagles have cubs by it. you're, really pretty I'm gonna go. I didn't put into like my thoughts like a luxury
Bold reform has let there be no. I know it covers a baby, we're getting them equal rights. I think that's what they're called actually, which is cute. I actually already left the more you again we're done Africa this case. No, no, I just wanna He's clarify that we will be lambs replay like day laughing and as for the workforce observes, we will release innocent Susan, but Susan Chill come now right because we're just laughing at and we want to stick to his father. His parents were, you, know they loved him. They took care of him. They didn't physically bs him by all accounts by his own account. Ok, but his dad was like a really big imposing dude. He osanna really bad temper,
that temper was fuelled by alcohol. Ok, so sudden, I'd like a deck knocker here and basically he was super strict, very strict discipline area, which is not always great right, especially when its fuelled by was it like borderline emotionally abuse and exactly a teetered. into emotional and verbal abuse, the Visa Stan Joshua. very scared of his dad and didn't want to do things to incite his temper, which is obviously which is important later at fourteen years. Old Josh was the slight tall skinny, like brown, curly, haired boy, here, a little boy you actually looks super baby was very baby feel very baby face.
It is even worse when you look at his picture, and you know like what happened here. You're like that you have such a baby fate like. How did you do this adult thing? That's really upsetting, because humans are grassy out. They really are so at this point when he was fourteen people described him as a normal happy kid here tons of friends, love to make people laugh, not alone or at all, not rebellious, nothing that would point to like sums gone on with that can bring. He attended school at a fillip, Randolph Academy of Technology. He was a ninth grade at this point and he had a sea average same He was also a bit of you know he was kind of like the class clown aim, but not unlike trouble didn't, go to the priest, the principal's office or anything yet like he's just funny juice, just like a goofy, again you're, a good supply of clock, so
again. He never nothing would have pointed to this kid. Having any issues whatsoever. Sufferings vary too yeah like this wasn't one of those things were. The neighbors idea only go we're shocked, but you know what there's one another. I kept my doubting like nothing except it is this I was going to say: there has to be something, exert, theirs is theirs ever nothing in this big thing Why is this? Can illegal logging
this is just more like it. So this kid was all of those things occur, but he had this whole other like part of him, but I think he hid from like his family and stuff a lot that came out later. Ok, we're gonna see so he had been in trouble with Matisse parents before about his parents had already not taken a shine to him. Why? So? At one point, they had forbid him from entering their house. Tell me why? Because one time they came home,
and they found him in just egos bedroom. Upstairs the elder daughter, the eleven years Jessica. There no use uninvited aha- and this was just one month prior to maladies, murder. Ok, what happened? He apparently stole a photo out of a frame of Jessica in a gymnastics leotard doing like back bend so who had ended up happening? Is they found out in? This was discussed a lot and trial. He was weirdly obsessed with Jessica. like weirdly ups and she was eleven. She was eleven and he was fourteen. He also discussed sex in front of the two girls, oh yeah, and Florence Clifton, who was their grandmother, was like you don't come around my grandmother's any morally. She found out about this was like no shit now they the at this point that in May
the injustice parents religio. We die you playing with our kids anymore, you're too old to like yeah wise. I know rise of fourteen. We hang out and eleven Emily To be around them and you're not doing yourself any favour here by acting really gross around them right. No now asked went by the started. To loosen up a little bit, me started to be a little more like a like when another year, fourteen year old boy, still more, like www oversight and Josh's parents also found out about all this and we're like you're, not playing with bad yeah we're not in it. Right now. What came out later to and police searched his computer is that they found that he was really into violence, sexual images in graphic pornography, some of which involve children. Oh, so he had this
weird whole other okay, so he was not a name will go but it, but it didn't leak out national work. That's the weirdest part of this dude. Is it never leaked out until this island? It's like there was no like tiny little leaks happening of this part of his person actually invented. One is yellow, one can exploded in the worst way. It possibly could really fascinating that that's how it happened and horrific, oh so horrific, he also allegedly I'll say allegedly cause. I don't know if there its uncontested. Totally I mean it was in the trial. They did alleged the sin trial that he had broken into the Clifton home at times to steal. It was our things like a picture here in just like, oh, and they said they found holes in Jessica's walls. were covered by posters where they crawl spaces want no, no, no, no, no like again Daniel.
Plant. I guess, and they couldn't do. They couldn't confirm that he was the one who did this, but they have they alleged that he has something to do with a still expire on her. Ok, that fought YAP. But again this was. These are not things that they, like totally confirm so, but it's something that was brought up in either when he definitely stole the photo, because the photo is missing. They discovered him in the room. and then, when the police logged everything this bedroom, that photo was taped to his headboard. Why did his parents never noticed that the picture was taped to maybe he might have maybe covered it with there's something else they didn't saint, where was taped guy mattress externally, adds really fucked up creepy speaking of the crime scene. Let's talk about what the police found in his does your note, say: the crime scene of the crime scene for no terms
so who's Josh, whose Josh Josh had a ton of air, fresheners and incense in his room. Wonder why me to actually Ex Minister fresheners you ever he kind of explains later that he just keep adding fresheners to his room. the weak, because it has kept getting worse and worse and do so. There was a can of four breeze fabric. Fresh, There was an odour eaters, air fresheners. There were two glade plugins while several rows of tape, a baseball bat hidden behind the drugs dresser, when you come back later
a leather man knife which was thrown behind the tv. Ok, they found a pair of ten issues that were stained and Matisse blood and they also found a flyer that was literally the missing persons fire. That was hanging from a bookshelf. Again, that's funny ganging up in his room, ass. She decomposed under her ok. Now this kid is not fucking normal, so they also for hunt- and they d like named this, which I was like what will both stepped back, what they named, then he had a card game entitled magic. The gathering on his bookshelf announced likewise agonized. Like those I was just about to say, didn't you have those cards as little foot, I mean that's just a card game. Whatever nobody told me that in the car, see man look that's like answered does just that makes me feel some type of that's like being like also healed cards against men, which likely lead
who had been right, library, dumpling magic, the gathering and slay dungeons, DR basically right. So they also found also? He was a wizard though he was totally dragged. Me was it just as I do the same, but they also found a piece of carpet. They took a piece of carpet that had blown No, do you imagine, being a pair, his parents and being like law had no fucking alien and their well? Yes, room that a dead body was in his in the house bonkers, I be so pissed at him. I would I would question along. They also found that photograph of Jessica knows if she was dressed in a leotard, and she was doing like some gymnastics position where she was like bent over ok, they took a pillow case from his bed in some of the clothing that they believed he was wearing the day of over. They took a hair brush and they found a pair of panties.
the bag to those for dna analysis. What are you looking skis this kid yeah and they there was a ceiling found on the ceiling and it was like a wooden concealing them, so they found a fine spray of blood on that ceiling fan also, this happened. Unwilling yeah later prove to be Matisse blood and they said that it was
feet off the floor that spray one which later, when we discuss his confession, you will find out why? Ok speaking of the convention, ok, big big treat, your warning because we are going to discuss. I mean Josh admitted everything right away and he explains what happened and it is gruesome. So detective, William Taylor was the one who pick Josh up from school. The day the man s body was found. Did they let him like finish school? No, they went picked him up. Ok automatic class, the usual geography, glasses, stupid, took back to the police station and they started questioning him. Basically, what they said to him was hey Josh, Your mom found Mag Matisse body in Europe who will make you wanna tell us what happened so the his father was that his parents were present with them when they question because any debate here yet they have to be, but that doesn't always happen. So his father was the one I guess who encouraged him.
tell the truth around yea housing at what happened: they said later they asked like. Was he like being forceful liked? It was staring him into a gazelle trying to figure out the debt Mckenna and they did say no. He was not forceful. He was just telling him like you have to tell the earth and he decided to make a full confession. Okay, so he said that day married come over to his house and wanted to play with them, but he said no, I'm busy. I have a lot of choice to do now. He said he had she a ton of short. He simply something like twenty two chores that we're on his list for that afternoon after school and his parents were like yeah, we we do assigned him until the chores, but they were like that sounds crazy, but its things like you know, change, the bird cage we like little faith, the dog do this. You know like little things and they said the reason that they gave him all these chores was to keep him busy between the time he got home from school and they got home so that he wasn't getting himself just trouble.
Sitting on the computer and without someone's gonna, say also still kind of seem like they were awake a little much that's a little much, diving. That goes along with the strict disciplinarian like twenty two, this is fine. We're gonna, give you any future is when you get home from can't imagine assigning. I dont have kids, obviously, but what is the one on Sunday add phalion Asshole manslaughter jars, and they are who said that once a week he had to cook dinner for the family, that's which I think is crazy, because to be honest, I don't know all I forgot her old guy. Don't want a fourteen year old cooking for me so yeah, so they said yes, he did have attended shores to do, but then Jack said well. I decided in Wanna. Do those George chores any said he just wanted set on the computer, unlike certain the wet watch gross point, while computer record showed that from for twenty two to four fifty seven, he was on porn sites, many of them involving images of children and torture. So that's really battle know what to say
now just said around five fifteen so use off the computer. At this moment he said many came back to the house and when he was in the yard, raking leaves Cosette was one of his tourism. You decide to go back to them and she came to the fence that was around the house and said: do you wanna play baseball now and she was like you know what she's not last stop so yeah. This is a great man. Ok, so he said: ok, you can come in the yard, but only for a little while because he said you know if my dad finds out that you're here he's gonna be mad and I don't want to be mad at me. Ok so he was shattered by men to begin with. Well, Dad said quote: he testified to this. He said quote when we're not at home. He is not allowed to go on play he's, not allow
to let any one in which is understandable, one hundred percent- and so he was again I would have been piss hazards posed to reopen. So they did start. You know they took turns there are pitching and hitting the ball with each other. The space they were in Josh said was only like. There was only gonna, be like forefeet between them and their pitching and hitting a bit file to each other, a little to those clear. He said he had one really strong swing and because he really wanted hit the ball and he said he accidentally hit her near her left. I would the baseball she got a huge gash and her forehead and she fell down, started crying and like screaming loudly, so he got super scared because he was like she's not supposed to be here and now I just asked opener had right. So he said he tried to clean the blood which I love. The first thing he says: if you try to clean the blood off, the ball is best answer. gee. I definitely do that and then he put it inside the house
is the lack of her on the lawn like Walter. He said she was still yelling and screaming because he shares and aims any said he did not want to do so. He said she started a quiet down, so he dragged her into the house and into his room, and he said he was so scared that his father was gonna, be mad at him for playing with her that he panicked, and he said she was bleatings like a tongue from the gash la still crying really loudly so he said, he tried to stop her by putting his hand over her mouth and lay telling her stop crying and which only terrified her even more exactly so he's she kept screaming she's crying she's, making a ton noise. So he said he just had to shut her up. So he said he took the baseball bat and he hit her in the head with that with a strong overhand swing overhand. So he said-
She kept going so he hid her thought, known and unknown, and he said quote jamming the end of the ban on her head and then he hit or a third time now. He said this was a full strength. Bat swing to the head. Was this like a metal baseball bat? I believe it was wooden thou the coroner later?
I said that these head injuries would have eventually killed her anyway. If that was just it that would have killed her that wasn't just it. So Maddie was apparently whimpering and moaning still slightly so he said she was still making noise I'm going to start crying. So I took my knife that was on the bookshelf and he stabbed her twice in the neck. He said the whole time Maddie was basically not do. This is according to him, and nobody believes this he's saying she wasn't fighting back or trying to escape, which I don't believe, no he's still panicking, and now he said he opened the side of the water bed and the side wooden panel.
Beneath the water bed and he put Mattie under their now. He has blood all over him. So he said he went into the bathroom. It cleaned up. He basically showered here and he said well. He was cleaning up. He walked by his bedroom, any heard Mattie still moaning under the bed- oh my god, so he reopened the bad. No, he took her out and he stabbed her in the chest nine times until she stopped breathing, then he said he put her back under the bed with his feet. He closed the panel and he heard nothing else. Five. Thirty five p m his dad came home from work and made dinner way. What the. police were asked him next, were they said? Okay, this is all well fine like it makes. It is what you're saying leg. It makes sense what you're saying here it's adding up, and he said they said what about how she was dressed,
Oh, no! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! So when she was found she was naked from the waist down. Oh no now Josh says her shorts and underwear came off when he dragged turned to the room, doesn't make any sense to bill where they like buttons, and it's like that, doesn't make it it just doesn't. It since they didn't come all the way off now, both of those things. Maybe they be a little right, but they would not be off all the way up and he said her shoes came off when he shoved her under the bed. The second time just came up So it's like her underwear and her in her shorts came off her. While you were dragging
Are we decided over her shoes right now and he said he remembers the shorts being down when he got into the room, but he said he wasn't sure of her underwear. Also, her shirt was into this came out trial. Her shirt was pulled up on her chest and they said she was stabbed nine China times in the chest and there were no stab wounds, the fabric, ok, that oh yeah yeah, also her shorts and underwear that he say says, fell off when he was dragging her were placed beneath the mattress on the Lake Wall Side, which means they were put in their first and then she was put it there, ok, which, if you put her in their after they had already fallen off, you'd, probably just throw them in after and right unless you had already taken them off right in then you'd put them in the first results. Like God, that's not true.
Really fucked. Now he said that night that this happened. He said there was a knock on the door right after this all happened, and it was MRS Clifton and she was knocking on the door yelling formality and his in Josh's father said I didn't even know who really humanity was at first like I was angry What like and I mean, I don't think I know she is like- I think he plays with her. So this is when his father called Josh and was like. You need to go out and help look for and he was so he did he left and he went out helping looking for her well psychotic here so Josh said to the police. I slept all week:
that's fucked up here. He said on Wednesday. He put the tape on it because he could start smelling her and he said during the week he would burn incense huge use, the plugins aerosols like anything to mask the owner, and he just didn't know he was going to say it's a fucking. Weird, oh, do, and he said he used transparent taped to go over the corners of the partition first, but then he used black tape. On top of that, too, like reinforce it Indeed, when they asked him like what did you think, you're gonna do like what what was your end game he ages like. I have no idea like. I have no idea Nearly we literally just can letter decomposed dust under your bed, and he was like me. And if that use literally again- and now I can't know my name
And eventually you're gonna get maggots under by bra yeah. I mean I'm surprise no bugs with ETA became ill, but they did ass the sheriff they asked him like you know what was it like finding that Cosette must have an hour, and he said he said at that point in decline. Position has started in areas like it's the worst thing, I've ever seen in my life and will oversee we give in use like can't imagine sleeping on top of that, which is that's the part that just boggles the mind. You know this is gonna sound, so stupid, but you know like when you like. Your foot comes out of the cover and, like you think, I'm fucking goes yeah. I got you, lady. I didn't kill anybody and I think that yeah there's a corners of the corpse in Europe freaked out it's crazy. Now, four days after she was found, her funeral was held.
I was on Saturday November 14th at the San Jose Catholic Church. In Jacksonville, one thousand two hundred people came and hundreds more outside the door at the funeral cuz. I just want to put this out there. Cuz people should know more, Mattie yeah, not just about. I dont like reading me, cried hope. They said she loved to Google, but that they described her as tough as nails. They said she was very vibrant. She liked to play the hockey football basketball, but she also love to dance and play piano. So again, she's Lincoln was well rounded, justly cool check here,
a neighbor, said she was an amazing little girl. She could be a little ballerina at one time in a tough, a powerful back at another time and when she talked she made sure you listened, she was a very sweet, little girl and then another neighbors said everybody loved her and when they asked the leader Josh, when they asked him they were like. Why did you kill her leg? Why did you go through all of that like just because you were scared of your dad, like that? I don't understand this. His answer was, I don't know. I don't think I have the answer. Maybe I should get some kind of count Link or something to find out what's wrong with me yeah. So it's like this like super goofy nor more friendly kid, just all the centre in Santo like yeah, I don't know. Maybe I should get some counselling and it's like what So none of your dark passenger say like leaked out at all. Until was one more which with fines, although it is like it's like what are you
we can easily Stormily has amongst normally of nature. He truly is because it's none of this is precedent to unite arenas, just very weird so onto the trial of the city of it. but things about this. It's Wednesday November eleventh, was like the first Tino hearing. He was, held in Duvall County Juvenile Detention Centre and he was held in isolation. He was held there until the trial in August. Ninety ninety nine- and it was because they were scared of his safety. Basically that item in isolation on November, sixteenth state attorney, Harrow Harry L Shore Stein, one on record and said the state plan to try him as an adult. While good, which is crazy, like I don't be crazy, like they shouldn't have it's just you down, and he the grand jury to indict him on a first degree, murder charge
on Thursday November nineteen nineteen eighty ninety eight he was indicted for the murder of Madeline Re Clifton. In the first degree and Florida usually gives the death penalty for that, but because of his age he could only get life in prison. I witnessed without the possibility of pearl. Ok, he entered. guilty ITALY? Why either? That always is like at first rose like fuck, you you'd meddling in Omen Ray. I never and is only illegal mumbo jumbo. That goes along with that. You know what I mean it. I think it so stupid. It is really is so. The trial was scheduled for April. Fifth. Ninety ninety nine and Judge Charles Arnold was presiding over the chair to nurse thought of like not guilty. Husband sanity, but yeah someday. I think I think, that's kind of what it is like leaves. You open right to do, these figures, Israel you'll, go to your father this just as medical examiner
the medical examiner was Doktor Flora and he gave his testament testimony about what he saw happening again. Trigger warning we're gonna talk about a month ago, seminars findings which can get a little gruesome. He said there were three seconds separate attacks, Mattie, like Josh, had admitted the very live, all the yellow, the blows with the bad, the stab to the neck, and now it s so he said it was consistent at the last session on her head were caused by a baseball or some similar object. He said that he agreed. There are two stabbing said: Throwed nine to the chest and the abdomen area. He said he was unsure. He was unable to tell for sure whether the throats injury happened first or whether she was hit over there
first, a land Josh was saying she was set up it had first then he cutter yeah. He said he wasn't. He declared comfortable saying that that was absolutely true, but he said either way both of them happened. You said you didn't want totally agree with Josh's version he said. The blood spot on the ceiling fan does indicate that she was obviously struck him ahead in his bedroom and that it was an overhead swing and blow it pull back. So that's where that spell like key came down. He pulled the weapon back in
its sprays into the ceiling me right. He said there was an injury near her eye that could have been caused by the baseball like he was saying, because it was. He said it was a different than the other ones. It wasn't like you didn't cracker skull led the brain while batted yeah, but he said the baseball that could have been him telling the truth that she was hit with a baseball this. What this puts a little rough dislike emotionally, I think about this whole cases yeah. This is this one purchase. Can I gave me the two heaps heaps here so when she came for autopsy it, they noted that each of her hand, woods were hands were encased in. bag that was tied at the risk that was done by the crime scene, technicians, that's what they do vain case, your hands in a bag. So that say nothing ends well and also, if you have any dna finger nail, you always aim. They need to protect that other than do that, so he did indicate the bat
Tat happened and then he said when he opened the bag. There was a bracket that was in the bag. This bracket was part of the bed it, but only three, where accounted for when they searched the crime scene. So what they thought was. He said it wasn't in her hand, but it was in the bag with her hand. So he said what he thinks is that at one point she was holding that bracket, so he says she was trying to well. What that seems to be is that she was still alive after she was pushed under the bed the first time. So his version of events where he says he could still hear her yeah. She was even ass. It should be financed out of and not only wish, you alive, but she was trying to get out o my god. He did
say that all nine injuries to the stomach and long area were inflicted post mortem? So what he heard after that, like whatever time he's because again, his version of events might not line up with actually happen, because what you are saying is that he said she was so morning say: pulled her back on and stamp out, but in all reality he stabbed her after she had like there's no way you'd aren't she was minded yeah and what could have happened? What she could have made a noise, just as you do and it can happen, but it's like he could have, or it could have been a totally you know he just wanted to stab him yeah. It could have been any kind of. So that's what he's saying he's like I don't know exact it was a thing is just what he sang. The injuries are consistent with what he sang it just might not be how he saying it happened right why he saying these injured rapid because he keeps saying it's just to keep her quiet one. He is watching on these violent or torture.
Things yeah, so the jury deliberated for no, I think, just under two hours and they convicted him Josh Philips, who was fifteen years old at the time of first degree, murder here, which was pretty unheard of for his age. Now they did have a doctor, Doktor OSHA his name was. He was not super established as a doctor, you like just at a medical school, he did find a by frontal lesion or a couple of them on Joshua's frontal lobes. So what does that mean? It can basically be linked to unexplained violent outbursts and in teenagers, because you're frontal lobes are not fully developed. So Lee. Should they lesions on them? That's gonna cause issues they wanted to use this in court, but they didn't end up using it because one, I think they were little concerned with, like his credibility, the doctor, not that he wasn't a good doctor, but he didn't have a along behind him and then also he was far away and they needed him to come
testifying he was willing to resolve scratched that something at least like there is an abnormality on his frontal lobe. Ok, nothing is really conclusive about what that me book so August 20th, one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine. He was up for sentencing when this is when his parents and Maddie's parents could get up and like if statement God he's Maggie's mom gave a statement that just like heard see her. She said quote no one or nothing can look up at me with those big brown eyes, pictures and memories. That's all I've got. I will never see Mattie play again. I will never see her fulfil her dreams. I will never kiss her tell her. I love her and sent her out to play, again it like that I'd do. Aids is almost like. I got a lot of what I got that lump of my throat. He was
luckily sentenced to life in prison without pearl and judge. Arnold said in his final statement to him. He spoke write to him and he said quote: I do not perceive you to be a child, your monstrous act may June adults yeah. That's how I feel I agree you wanna get all crime. We do the adult time. He also went on to say quote. I am certain that, on your judgement day, you Joshua, Earl, Patrick Philips, will be given a harsher sentence than I could ever impose. I love and judges and when they get like Sassy as yeah like they just legal laid out of it, is, I feel, like that's part of judge school. I feel I feel you have to take a classroom. Unlike is there also good
they are they so good like that? I was like yeah yeah, give me a little chill yeah. He did have a couple of he of appeals because there were like laws that came about that. The Supreme Court handed down in such a bow Nino under each trials answered So in two thousand and two the appealed his life sentence, based on the eighth amendment of the bill of rights that says excessive bail shall not be required nor excessive fines imposed nor cruel and unusual punishment inflicted on when they were claiming sentencing a fourteen year old to life imprisonment. No pearls is grown than usual, so as murder try. So the appeal court said quote: we find no harmful error, occurred at trial and affirm his conviction. Thank you guys for his sentence. Mister Phillips primary contention is that his chronological age renders is punished
and cruel and unusual. We do not feel that way and his sentences upheld. He went back in two thousand and seventeen along there's a seventy nine other cases like is because this is when they went back to appeal based on the: U S, Supreme Court's ruling in two thousand and twelve, that it was unlawful to automatically send you full offenders away for life because and this this law came in this whole ruling came into effect because they said science shows that the brain is not fully developed until you're in your mid twenties. Ok, so they said, and underdeveloped, adolescent brain can't make logical in Russia. Decisions all the time and we can put someone away for that when they haven't fully become a human scenario, to think that, like the like, yes, the frontal lobe, easier decision making department area but also
other things that go into right hand, those remained the same exactly and what? If we lay you out and then another kid gets murdered, because your brain is fucked exactly in that's like this, so many layers tat. This is different another visit not just situated his notice, a case of frontal lobe, no issues. This is not just a frontal lobe party can't you cannot have a limit on the frontal lobe. No blame on the rain. Blame on the booze now, the court was the court says that he was he's a model in maybe he's now buddhist as the cool, that's fine, you know who else is a model inmate Catherine Night, anxious skinned her husband, the law, exactly you know, who else
the Buddhist I don't know but put people were there, but they use this to try to get his appeal to those. You know what he is a poster. They said his arm. I q is above average Dantes in the top eighty five percent tile he's received his Highschool deplore man, but in prison coup in two thousand and three that the Department of Correction certified. there's a lot clerk and he got a diploma to work as a legal assistance. Law clerk and innovate didn't get to do all that money because he killed her. Exactly and it as he is using these things to help other inmates with their appeals, so he also teaches Jd Science masked other inmates for them to get their high school. is it was so they basically used all this, as I look he's using his time. While that's what that was all about I'm not saying that like look at how good he is, I think, you're using that as like he's losing his time well and sees a different person he's not that fourteen year old,
I would add the argument like this crime is so grew, so exactly and So what I think I'm gonna do with my next many more than is. I want to die further into that about minors being sentenced to life imprisonment, whether or not it makes sense only go further EU science of that. I feel it gets a case by case situation, because the thing is if he had just, like if she had gotten hit by the baseball. Unlike that incapacitated her and then like he is somehow she died after that because, like the ball hitherto hard or something like I like. Then you scared, like that's one thing, yeah. I didn't want to say anything in order me like if that was the thing. Also like. That's that's not the only thing he went way for it was. I was overkill way. Furthermore, in what he says now about it, because he didn't he didn't say a word when he was
Fourteen and re use is certainly a living and learn. This is what he said directly to Maggie's. Parents he's never apologize to them until now in twenty. This is when this isn't like twenty seventeen. When he was like, I feel like I can say something to them. He said to them quote. I had no clue what life man, what death man, the depths of suffering that would follow. One act, I had no inkling of how long suffering could last I have lived long enough to understand what real suffering was. I did something horrible and I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, even now. After all these years, it is just so unfathomable that this all could could have occurred. It tears my mind to know that I stole such a precious life from you from the world's I wish I could take the way your pain, I pray every day that you are able to live your life. In spite of the injury I have caused, you, I'm supremely supremely grateful to have an opportunity for physical freed,
if any joy arises in my heart, its immediately tempered by knowing that these proceedings bring all of it up again face to face the horror that occurred in ninety ninety eight, when I walk the wreck yard here in chains, I look to the skies through mesh Wiring and, thank God repeatedly for giving me hope, but my next breath is always devoted to it. Peace and healing to you all. Now to me this seems like yes, I think he is a different person than when he was fourteen, but I also think that this is a guy. Whose very smart knows what he needs to say. Yeah. Maybe he is sorry, but sorry doesn't make it go away. And it certainly does it mean that you should go walking the streets We can only do that if you're saying you're, sorry, you know at the other thing is to its like before he killed money. There was no inkling that like he sat like. There is very worrying and right now
Oh he's changed its like. We have no reason to believe that he would do this again and when are you just explode again right, like you did the first time it's exactly what we are saying before, how none of this leaked out even slightly in that it exploded in the most far reaching I marriage way. How do we know that won't happen, and it's like all. Yes, teachers than is the pivotal friends Really I never would have expected this so that what is it
and again in the mountains. Isms like we never would have x. I was gonna end all the corrections officers and everybody in there's, like you know them on one may is great he's a wonderful person. I would never see him doing anything boom, something triggers trigger them so November. Seventeen two thousand seven judge what Del Wallace made his ruling. He says, I'm just going to read you a couple of little quotes and I got the whole thing. Is it's a very good thing that red he said so he went through a whole thing. That said, you know. Do I think that you're a different person than you are when you're fourteen? Yes, I do. Do I think that lake you know it could be considered unfair. To think that you should have all the answers I fourteen and act accordingly. Yes, I did right, but he said quote:
but I think if you looked at the evidence as it was developed in some of this, was developed more after the trial than actually used at trial. I think they're substantial evidence to believe that the young woman Mattie, the girl was lured over to Philips Home, with intent by Mister Phillips, to get her over there. She was not supposed to be in and had no particular reason in the evidence here to want to go to interact with Mister Phillips or go to his house. So it looks as if this was a sexually motivated case in which the defendant, Lord Maddy, with a sexual motive involved. Not the killing itself was brutal enough and perhaps was motivated or rose from a concern about not being caught or keeping the young
victim from running next door and reporting when it just happened, so he's saying you, I think you molested her and then you ve killed her to shut her up. That's what I think happened because they also these. This was an m because of decomposition. I think they can tell us. She was molested but they did find seamen. Oh so either way they honour. They think that I think it was maybe on her clothing. Or I was at least in his, which indicates that too was aroused at some point during ass. I mean this: that's not good. No so, and all of that was kind of them like a little, can fuddled because I think it is really want tough and not argue that buddy he had just watched right
So I think that is simpler than the other reason. I think they couldn't really determine because they were like. We can't tell whether was their knowledge or when could she came over right after so it's like you, don't know what to happen. God that's really lot, and I know it really is. I feel, like I'm ethic, about this guy like that there's really left an impact on me. So then the judge went into you know them the overkill and that you kept going. I ask you kept hurting her and he said quote so you have at least three stages of blows or stabbings to the child in order to effect the killing. Is this impetuosity weak, impetuous liquor you just spontaneously doing this like no you're making concerted efforts to shut them. Samian right yeah. Is this the split second decision of young people
the bravado of a peer group around in a school fighter, neighbourhood fight? No, it's something that was done calculated Lee carefully coldly with a plan in mind, a plan that goes bad and then with time to think about what you're doing or do something different. The blows necessarily bring about the death were done in stages, rather than one terrible, split. Second, bad decision to pull a hand now and then in the afraid of combat the handgun, goes off and kill. Somebody right tat was very differing adsense, exactly so f. All that he said so when you take the into these individual characteristics here for all the circumstances as outlined. I think this justifies the sentence of life and again,
It is a sad day because I'm not on mine, filled out the fact that he was fourteen years of age and that to lose your freedom of something you did at fourteen is extraordinary and that's why we've gone to this effort to have this hearing, while the Supreme Court ruled the way it did why the Florida legislator acted in pass the sentencing scheme that we did and why I think this is rare. The jury verdict stands. The jury found the defendant guilty of first degree, murder, and so the court then again adjudicates the defendant guilty of that crime as charged in count one of the indictment, so it was upheld and he still gonna stay there. That's good! I'm glad! Now I think in two thousand and twenty three has another appeal: do you know how do you know how many has left? I dont know how this works, because its different from like parole end
and for all like every state, and also he's eventually going to run out of appeal here. I just don't know how many get that is the case of many Clifton Joshua, Philips, really did something to my heart- saw brain and standing in only a couple years. From now he's gonna be open appeal again, look at one. I don't think you because I think it's gonna be the same situation. He no matter what he says because that's my point is like it's not it wasn't one thing that happened that you were like this one thing happened. Annoying to hide her ear. It was like continue because that's the thing: it's like certain things where you like. Ok, he was scared. She gave he had her. She went unconscious. He thought she was dead. I mean I don't know me. Maiden, because I care about my own business relations would have had to go completely differently had to have more accidents, written of any known. Even only accident than happened was hidden in the face and I just wish that Sheila Grin way to hurt me. I just ran away hour or so
when he heard her, I don't know and came running on. The other thing is it's like. This was whatever I'm like a little after five thirty years, getting it Interesting to me that nobody heard her screaming on the front line, but you know then I think about it and I'm like ok, so at night, when we're all taken walks and stuff, I hear kid screaming all the time playing, but no to distinguish between a scream for help and what kids, kids, kids scream bloody murder right. They think it's funny but I'm saying like they, the police and someone around inside the big. Did you hear anything? Did you see anything and I've? I've just feel like you would be like all I heard ass. I did hear kid screaming earlier, but maybe they said that maybe they said I heard could screaming and there like Dino foes Maddy in their own right. I just heard conscript. I'm just saying that could be like a loophole in the sorely ivy she never yeah. I know she got no occurs, but yeah I mean it could so yeah, somehow
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Transcript generated on 2021-07-04.