Today we got to have a truly humbling experience. We spoke with Jessica Clifton, the older sister of Maddie Clifton. Maddie was brutally murdered when she was only 8 years old and Jessica was only 11. Who was the killer? It was a casual friend in the neighborhood, 14 year old Joshua Philips. Speaking with Jessica, we were able to clear up some misconceptions about her sister's case and also hear her first hand experience as a family member of a murder victim. This conversation was really eye-opening and we want to thank Jessica a million times for sharing her insight with us. We know it wasn't easy to open this back up.Visit out sponsors!Check out EmbarkRight now, Embark has an exclusive offer you can’t get anywhere else! Go to Embarkvet.com now and use Promo code MORBID to save 15% off your Dog DNA Test Kit. Go get yourself some HelloFreshGo to HelloFresh.com/morbid10 and use code morbid10 during HelloFresh’s New Year’s sale for 10 free meals including free shipping.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Streaming only. I pick up a new original common me. Punk bank. We are lady parts. Confused mixed hash happens, sour our people to live in front. We are lady part, all the so streaming that only on paper Hey weirdos, I'm Molina, my name's ash, and this Is a many many morbid many many many many many more bad. Many morbid many morbid, maybe more oh la la. You know that even though we just said like who, whose haywire It was I just when you had record, I went to say: hey Weirdo, FIFA. It happens here. We are its weight along weak spots, Your thing down and punch the floor, it happens and also this is not good, to be a mini morbid? No it actually not! It is many morbid ass, more than the whole ass morbid and this one's very, very special because
as we are revisiting a case that I actually did high Molina that I actually did as one of my minis. It wasn't many at all when I did. Of course it was the case of the absolutely brutal and completely her effect, murder of Mattie Clifton and its Joshua Philips. Who is the vicious monster? Who did it originally this episode was episode? Eighty, where we covered the case in like a ton in detail, but we were, we were contacted actually by Maggie's older sister, who I believe we mention in the episode, because she does she's in this a lot. Obviously her older sister, Jessica Clifton. She contacted us Let us know that there were a few things that were, you know, could be missing. Strewed or were incorrect information about, especially leading up to that day that the moment that Mattie was murdered and things that
Joshua had said in his court testament about what happened the day, that the evidence just doesn't court corroborate and that she has wave at our insight into this. Obviously so she just wanted to reach out to us. Tell us that summit. That was wrong, so we asked, would you mean a witch? She be willing to chat with us too, because we want to get her story out. This is her family. This is her little sister Jessica was eleven at the time this happen. Mattie was eight years old We wanted to make sure her story gets out there. She gets to tell the world exactly what happened and the correct information egrets hand account yeah. so she was gracious and amazing enough to speak to us with. to me is amazing that she can even speak about. This goes to it's such a horrific thing, but we have an amazing conversation with her and she was so nice and so easy to talk tail seriously and when I tell you that she's such like a beam of light like we talked or over,
phone and I immediately upon her answering the phone I felt comfortable because, obviously we were nervously out her. I mean because your nerve so this is dredging up a very, very traumatic I'm area, and this is so delicate and somebody sister it's this. This is, stuff that we always want to be so respect, Flambeaux, and knowing that we had got things wrong. It was weighing on me heavily and it was saint. So I think I was a little nap to talk to her, because I was so nervous said I was that it she was gonna, think I disrespected matters right, I'm are, and we would never want to do that to any family, no unluckily that wasn't the case. It was like she just wanted to clear up: a glaring idea and again it was just like she really just put us at ease like right away. She has such insight into this. I mean she's, so brave.
Well, you're gonna hear it because she was gracious enough to let us record the conversation so that we can release it for this episode. So that's what we're gonna be doing. We talk to our basically about what she says, inconsistencies and then she gave us just some more insight into the relationship that they had with Josh, which was a lot less than what was portrayed up in just some things that warrant released initially, and she let no, how she felt, which is something that we know nobody can write about. Nobody can discuss she's the only person, Azalea she's, the only one that can put us in her own way. You know head space during this whole thing she had to sit. originally and shall save in the interview. Originally, she didn't sitting on the
trial, because your love us all, but when she, when the trial came back around a couple years ago, she had to sit there throughout the whole thing and listen to this whole thing be dredged up again when he was retried because of the law that it was unconstitutional to sentence juvenile offenders to life without Pearl Ass, though he was getting array. Sentencing hearing used I get out of prison and she had to sit there and listen to the whole thing again. She had to look at pictures. She have any details are brought up that she didn't even know about details about her, no idea because her parents, at the time we're being good parents and they weren't, involving her in all the ins and outs of this, and they knew that her. Knowing that you know what you're going to hear is mean. I think we mentioned at the episode. The Josh had a evaluations, Gary infatuation obsession
some weird sexual obsession with Jessica and obviously her parents were smart enough in good parents enough to not tell her that which is a landmark scores, scared the shit out of her. So she had to hear this inquiry like I had no idea how much of the you know. Her life was interconnected with his weird crazy fantasies that she had no idea about. So we just want a first and foremost save Jessica. Thank you so so so much Leocadi who s this was amazing. It was I opening it made me feel good to know that we're gonna get the story.
Great and it made me feel good Zack, where we really like Jessica. Yes, maybe you're really easy to talk to you to be happy and those like. I really want to talk to you again later. Can we just talk about it? So yeah she's really great, were so good to hear that you know she's doing so well, yeah. She is really like, remarkably well she's she's, a pretty amazing person with what she's gone through and how she came out of it. So you know we just wanna high five are on that and one thing before we start showing you the recorded interview we do have to small ads in this episode. We just want anyone to think that we were being like disrespectful pudding ads in the interview. I don't know why anybody would be, We try to just nip these things in the bud before they become as they try to make everybody happy. So we do have to ads in this episode, but you know their short their quick. You know their common because I gave you some new music, so enjoy, saw her
because enjoy this interview with Jessica and without first, Eridu do here, it is taken away, Jessica, just like you kind of like you tell us. While I was working in the court of auditors, then what the evidence provided you I'm sure he made the whole story of the name,
And to where he wanted to go over there and play and accurately here- and there was no evidence of any phone from her anything up to date- that even got hit the ball in her eye on me when he heard outside inside, and there was no there were no. We are not granted. I get you forgot about, but my final gloating in her new on that point now now I just wanted to make. Everyone will realise that the evident, why was not there at the dawn of day, the Clinton trotting has absolutely
and I think that when one point where they said that they were playing in the back yard now I wish I could show you right now it might go and take a picture of it before you, the man in the back yard, varying training or difficult funky on getting the poor in the back yard and six of the entire backyard and no little patch in time in each of the dead man, an indian back yard. You will be yeah, I'm not! That doesn't make sense, though, like none at all, and I can definitely picture what you're saying that that the backyard- like basically an entire pool, that doesn't make sense,
one thing that has in a way that the evident could nodding at it again yeah, but I wanted to talk about the other day was upset me. Probably them out. How how I'm alina- and I might add thirty four in this- is that I'm twenty three we got ten yards behind it, every night Ah, then I just wasn't died. They give it the ultra go out by them No no. I did it all the time at midnight
No! No! No! Well! I have three kids and I would never do it now How does one thing where it were now and then everybody go mad in age and nodding, and then my buddy job you're my age, either to avoid before income and Nick campaign on all we're having a job, then he was always with applying a well all this happened: Larry River, familiar with new, beginning limb, next door open with all the town down the road, and it would cover one of those things where the Bible about what our Planning Nick parent inexperienced well fine. They will turn a watch
just parent round by they were kind of one who knew her Larry King over. They were, you know out into how in he lived, they want your mom, he took care of, and so it was never like. I was watching after the kid kind of thing, and I dont know why in the cap it said: Larry down the drain, accurate, ok level relating to know precisely. I believe that was from the book. I'll double check, though just make sure but yeah that don't make so much more sense.
Josh wearing their, she went down there. Why'd you have won out, I think ok, normally it would have been Nick. Just then daddy and Jan Wit, glaring, I wanted to make sure- and I, like my younger brother, no, I totally get bad yeah. I'm gonna make so much more zones.
Definitely does I'm really glad we are able to clear this gap for sugar? well yeah, no tone of completely unviable. The error rate work and heard the lot younger than I want you to go down and their getting God Ball and Larry would like look. I dont have a lot about you, kidney defined you're. Just then, the fourteen year old watched her down to my home, playing the piano doing homework, and, unlike guy I forgot my play with you, Let me do my stop and then I can come of Orient
very very oh no, no he's the one. So when he comes down here with her you taking forever and he became Annie, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go back once you find one. I will see you in a minute. Ah, it hurts my heart. Now, I'm sorry, it's absolutely. I became How should I know? Ok right now, I'm good for right on the poor thing, yeah, I'm amalgam legal act.
I got in and around the world really like our rapporteur, effect my heart is no greater boy. Why than my mom, my god, you turning into a new more in our own way. In an odd when someone going downhill, I thought but I just wanted everyone to realise that they were all down there that he actually you know just in actually walked her down here. And how she ended up by her walking back down the street, which I mean I'm getting out. our three houses down. No, it's not like it's! This long wrong thing, How should already have been ok, yeah. I know what happened. I know her and I, at the time and with a lot of people.
I will not allow to hang out with joy. He had a very factual. You know what I had read: yeah yeah. We can only wonder yeah, and I, like you, I don't want you being allocated, so I think I know Joshua outside because of grandma, which hit the house next door to Josh's sounding and not by me. I now walked over there and that hey I'm looking up at him and then I was about to adopt the kicker.
gotta get out you I'm? I know for a fact. You walked over there and can and he was not one inside the house and it was no different than I mean we ve been in. There were New York for getting out of here. That's how the lowering, obviously only having God knows that in her course couldn't make someone someone so and then something I have written Mattie relationship with joy, which so I don't love. You guys ready you in bringing in the year.
yeah. So now I'm not allowed to come out in the beginning because it was an honour trial, be they didn't actually affect the murder yeah we're gonna make it Yeah. That's why I didn't read it until a lot later. I remember initially hearing about this case, and I never saw that and then I read it later was like wait. A second I don't know. I don't really remember what I was about our relationship and by sea, while the first thing that went missing or the court was born, which they ended up later binding in our backyard. There, like a lot of words in the backyard, could we? getting like five hundred dollar bill, called on. Only one percent higher like me
eleven year old a year or so it has very random. Then we got rid of the cornerstone young. We got a new one, not over, and then I came on one April when I was on the side of the house who so scary, Gary and grandma body, Hu Jia document, you're not ruin super confidence. There were. He had taken a gun and stable. all the while adding TAT she works on a wall. Anything that might well what you watch it.
Where are they I think that when I come back, yeah we're really what everyone thought. When I get over here, look at me The idea that a loving you yeah tell me back and freaking me out yeah hurrying thing here: each year the girl, the whole time when during the murder, I was eleven years old I without enough to set you up.
You re absurdly, and their everything going on is about me in unclear infatuation with me, in on wine and freaking out in, like I did. Didn't really have a coil evenly in the faint, but I had no idea tat. There must have been seen to hear like for the first time so many years later, many years while I know that I had such a thing, yeah no obvious link between the two of us, but there was some factual, Mama libyan thing going on. Obviously with looking up
be very minute before he did some kind, a modem such in going on here. Exactly exactly, and maybe you I would order yeah. No, I I was eleven. She was a. Maybe there were tracking you. We were walking out the door, I'm sure what you tell me everything we really must Ah, the relationship between the two of them we were all newly linked together for every game are well over a year wow. That's really that's like shocking to here cause it's like! No, what he is. It's like wow that somebody can just hide it like that, hearing wanting you know when I got back. You know him
I mean I went and not on your door near that forty nine and I hung out with him every day while she would methods that are for we were all get your point about my yard, like yeah roaming, around people to be able to come in here and working after then. You know why Well, I, I know you is haunting like he was just able to push it down like that and just put up a facade we are not really scary that's just my mind. I can't even like Ben to fathom that much
anything at all near that make sense. Y Y yeah haulage go well beyond. That's that's like just straight up trauma. There was going to say you're so nowadays, by everything it makes perfect sense. yeah I want trying to pull themselves together, one alarm, writing another child and keep them out. Together- and I would like, if I am right now- and so I did- I really didn't grieve until well. After all of you, your doktor she passed away just because I'm trying to think things through here and now, but those really amazing of you to think of somebody else
situation they really looking at and especially a year at your age at the time of that it happened. That's like really impressive, that you are mature enough to look at it that way yeah well, now I didn't know the end. Could then the laughing I was talking about how our planet while walked back down here? Oh yeah, ok that, with the end of the mind my note Oh good headway, somebody here that makes me so happy to those like, oh god, the last thing I would ever want to do is like disrespect. Yet we would never have their families from the outset, using you, men go every night when I come back
I can imagine that where I mean thank you so much for telling us of this, because this is stuff we want like we wanted. Let people know what actually happened as we want to get the real story out there. You know yeah, yeah, that's frustrating because it maiden does make it seem like few just hang out with this forty or guy goods like what exactly yeah, that's unfair. So I'm so so glad that we are able to talk to you seriously. more seriously! In white. Do you mind if I ask you like what we're your thoughts about them
who'll recent in thing that they wanted to do for juvenile offenders like people, because I know the time that all that was going on working actually achieve here jack, and I will help you it was a boy quote: uncoil wanted you know what, Oh yeah, I do know Alan and leaning living
yeah, and you know when I worked on a lot of big profoundly like that, and now is one of the cases that came back and you know what I saw you familiar with the actual like what the walk. why what logging came sit on? No, that was actually. I was gonna, hoping that you, you had some insight on that cause. I know a very generalised version of the law that they basically them.
Was wrong to sentence juvenile offenders to life without Peru because of the, like, you know, developmental issues in their debts. As far as I know about it, so I'm actually really glad that you have Morton both in the actual case, and I dont know what can happen when worth about she'll acting together in a big thing. I dry new, hued murder, you someone, I I'm in a complex, they catch you on your money
we'll get you a lighter over you like a like me, not a big deal with a bargain like arching near the work we do you think it is one in it. I know about because the one came in happy to work here than they were young and a guy actually won the account work on a warning that actually gone gone more trying as ever, and then you and I always try to Edna Dole and fill me in that case. Honestly, we're gonna go ok in hand, inaccuracies, Europe,
yeah, we want, even though one that make up the gun yeah. That means we can truly different situation back during their refinancing creature, that, after the target that gusher new young show me lay in our case the judge went over the whole case law on exactly what you married your vision, someone out there, it will shortly be just doesn't apply Y y. You did wrong he right at so many points
I totally agree with me. hearing, I did just read an article about sewing the appeals. It are you guys gonna have to be dragged American, no one, so I'm not actually quite sure how your wind perform war came about. He would appealing. Wanna call of duty is being reasonable, you're with it it's when they feel like they were not defended.
and so they can live a certain amount of beer thing when meeting that they wanted here use problem that thing had with their trial and the judge can look at all this need and go. None of these words my time as working the outcome of the cane, so I'm gonna throw it out. You can be like ok, I'm gonna, listen, the two were seventeen and twenty four and those on everything be hearing, arguing thing that you know you can get a first round at the time where he rapid progress to date now beginning
do you know how hard you now get lengthened yeah, so I didn't even appeal. I thought you were gonna, go back, you appealing your three young and not with I think we're yeah. Definitely I didn't, even though they could appeal that, to be honest, yeah I mean: what are you? What are you really going to approve at this point? Right? Yes, appealing appear It's still the same thing, darling near exactly
it's like. Ok sure, exact here go trial, oh man, that is really scary by Europe. I do not want clean yeah right until it didn't even get done in yeah. So to me it's like what We really do at this. Exactly like me.
Yeah now is no longer here, I can't even imagine yeah even during a crowded your picture at the family. We do not know why, because I felt like I had missed the mark. You know so much now near like bothered me near. I wonder I can't even imagine because before that, it's probably before I can understand why you would want to sit there because it's like your mind, probably filling in the blanks of things that you didn't know, sir. It's like, we might as well say the truth, so I can just get rid of.
My brain is forming you know, but yeah yeah. I can definitely understand, We did it we have experienced. A thing I've been there were got. There were not one that I don't know you also render, ironically, and while he was in prison, oh, no, I didn't know you were yet again. I think it was one of those being my wife. I won t, I wonder at the trial only
many things and arm like how do I get my head. I repeat, are altogether new and I wrote him. I could sit down and think with them, oh wow and on a hard but taken Exupere word deny you in jail, you can you show up, and so he wrote me back and leave anyone deny neither you talk to me go out on that occasion, I shall only occasional warning. Didn't really hearing on this with an Thou aches came here after YO I painted of bringing about a month
now when you hired the attorney had now and not in the appeal process, with a burning in Europe like my journey, doesn't think it a good idea to let you know that it's not me. Thank you. I don't want you to come and I don't want you to another thing: hunting drinking, not a good idea Maybe so he said nothing. You bid were what exactly you ran out all recorded. So so you know I can find no during the returning hearing. I can't even begin. Can you Having enough- and I remember thinking afterwards How
yeah. I know what I'm doing here are not new and judge and jury staring right. You can't even imagine I need you. he has seriously lacking. I entirely coming back oh yeah wage dumping. yeah going on here to rush in the Detroit, my hearing bursting through an entire forum- only in it in its like won the item as apparent myself just reading,
Made me like I could I felt nauseous like or your parents, because I literally cannot fathom what they went through where call me on her early and shares the Y know mentally had a relationship. I like my goodness or some and when I was born three? Your doctor? I figured I'd never happily married for twenty five years ago and they got married at one end and having hidden till they were already oh well,
don't leave me. I want to shows that those women and death my gun, but will be another daughter. Did he care of and my mom was drowning and couldn't get it yeah, I'm very carbon. I love comes out. When are you when you talk? They really Dyer leg. It immediately,
but I did- and I wish she was in a tub differently, but I guess I can't have not worked with me on that I'll. Tell you just don't bring awareness to everyone, but not only talk about in constantly. Let me down, he would not want. No. No, no happens Again- began yeah yeah he's the one of the things I all I was thinking about was like sitting there, and this is such a different scenario. Could I always think of how the families have to sit in the court room with this monster, who did this to their loved one and then in your situation. This is someone that your friends with initially so it's like it's an even weirder leg. You know
tension there, because it's like we were once friends and now you're this you shown to be this. Evil monastery must reach such a weird feeling. you're doing familiar with him, but you're not exactly one. He like he was a part of our little bunny. I sprang whip. Now. I love the dolphin so rare I make you no less than a bridesmaid out man.
Of honor lumber change, change the lobby at night, Well, I mean you're gonna, be like you, I thought you were met yeah it, especially when your kids, the yeah you're I do not even know about any of this kind of thing, why? yeah. You know he just pulled everybody into that dark world with him. Well, We seriously can't tell you enough how much we appreciate you talking to us good like I know this must be so hard to talk about, no matter how long it's been
and everything you ve told us is so great, because I want people to know this stuff like this is the stuff that we really why people than so important. I think that's it. That's the way to honour Mattie is making sure that her stories, hold correctly and to as many people as can hear You're calling me here and we know what did he want Yeah oh, no, I dont even exist. I mean it goes to show how one detail makes of story completely different yeah yeah I'm gonna try to get this out very quickly.
Tomorrow. If I can react as I it's like, I'm excited to get it out, so I be working on it tonight. Let you know as soon as I posted awesome. Thank you! So so much anymore, ever want to reach out again feel free to cause we loved shocking to even with another dead thing to you. I hope we'll talk to you again Thank you. So much haven't you use you buy, so that was discussion with Jessica. We hope even Wait, I really hope you enjoy that. Hopefully it was as incite fall for you as it was for us, hopefully made you feel you have a better look into this case. That apparently you know there's a lot of misconstrued information among us
again, thank you so much to Jessica for talking to us yeah a millionaire maker enough seriously she's great and were so so grateful for her talking to us about this, because it's really brave for sure so guys. We hope. Keep listening and we hope you keep. It appeared by feel it a guys. the road ahead for the auto industry is electric vehicles. But how do we get there on the latest episode of sustainably sweeping transportation, visionaries, Doktor, Deborah molesting, technical fellow of sustainability at Ford and Paul Snyder, chairman of the transportation design Department at the college, for creative studies, help us understand what it takes to design a better, more sustainable vehicle subscribe to day wherever you listen to pod casts my dear in china- glasses was any Threed virtual trial. Wow, that's pretty cool, but glasses kind and make you look like your uncle Bob, oh, not
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Transcript generated on 2021-07-04.