The president insisted Sunday that Iranian cultural sites were fair game for the U.S. military, despite Secretary of State Mike Pompeo saying otherwise on the Sunday shows. The panel discusses.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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saying that the president didn't say: he'd go after a culture site or reading what Trump very closely, the president on Saturday tweeted. So it's spelled out for you quote: let this serve as a warning that it on strikes. Any Americans were american assets. We have targeted fifty to IRAN, insides, representing the fifty two american hostages, taken by hurrah Many years ago, some at a very high I've unimportant to IRAN, the IRAN in culture and those targets. And IRAN itself will be hit very fast and very hard. The USA wants no more threats talking to reporters last night, while flying back to Washington from seventeen day vacation and it was asked about his threat against IRAN's cultural sites, which many experts say would actually cut. Such a war crime and the president doubled down quote therein.
To kill our people they're allowed to torture and may more people. They are allowed to use road. Side bombs and blow up our people and were not allowed to touch them. Troll sites. It doesn't work that way. So here's we stand on this Monday January. Sixth, huge crowds are packing. The straits of IRAN this morning for the funeral of general Scylla money. They around gent General struck down on Friday by a U S, throne, and for whom that country is promising revenge, IRAN is also signalling a new push towards nuclear weapons. Tehran will no longer commit telling it's on enrichment, established in a twenty fifteen agreement with global powers, from which the Trump Administration, with true and in Rack law makers are calling for the expulsion of U S, troops from the country, something president from met with threats of sanctions against Baghdad and bill of billions of dollars with
This morning we have national affairs, analyse for NBC News and MSNBC gentlemen, he's the co host and executive produced show times the circus. Why has report for the Associated Press, Jonathan Le Maire, president of the so on foreign relations and the author of the book of world in disarray, Richard Hoss Vice president for third: ways, National Security Programme and an MSNBC contributor maker, O Yang and calmness, and associate ever for the Washington Post, that Ignatius so Jonathan Wellmere. You were with the president yesterday as he actually under caught his Secretary of state who seem to scold and the members of the media, for suggesting the Donald Trump ever said. The United States would target uranium cultural sites. The present then just admitted it not only tweets, but in front of you in the press corps. Tell us about it. That's right out
but most of last week in Palm Beach covering the president during the end of his winter vacation on our flight from from Florida to Washington. Yesterday, on board air Force, one without half hour left or so in the flight, president called up the press. Fool to his cabin at the front of the plane. Proceeded to hold court touched on a number of of news, whereas we matters, but we pressed him on this in particular and yet make it just read. The quote: he basically contradicted, but Secretary of State Powell had said earlier in the day payable every single Sunday morning show yesterday and really stressed that the United States would adhere to the law, would not target All sides when it would do be lawful and the present flat out went the other direction saying that, as we read that if IRAN is allowed to play by these rules. Why can't we, too, that this isn't? This is and how it works, and it would not take anything off the table when we raised this issue with him. He also
on the matter of Iraq, you earlier in the day the iraqi Parliament voted to expel. U S, forces from the country. Now, that's not a done deal that may not happen, but when we asked the President about He said well if they are going to follow through with this something they really want and if they will pay billions of dollars for a joint air base at the? U S help to build their in Iraq, then the? U S, would leave and would impose crew. When sanctions the point where he said they even be rougher than the ones we put on IRAN? Richard I want to get to a Wall Street Journal editorial that the paper out there new page right over the weekend. It sounded every bit as celebratory and jingoistic as when the United States invaded Iraq in two thousand three or when they captured in old Saddam Hussein or when they killed Gaddafi and end.
Their conclusion is that a view question the wisdom of this strike that somehow you love the Donald Trump. So much you don't care that very malevolent Force- was taken off the globe it further. In other words, so Molly was a deadly menace, but the EU should have done nothing about his his depredations because IRAN could hit back. That is appeasement not leadership. They say Then they go. The Wall Street Journal Right set Democrats, although this tromp so much and so blinded Democrats that they can't even praised the demise of murderous Anna may well get em Kim Jong out is concerned. To be a murderous enemy, do we does Wall Street Journal? Do other people think we recklessly go in and assassinate Kim Jong known? About aside, we ve had
some eight Assad and so Richard, can you because I know you saw because I know you saw solemn like me as dangerous force across the Middle EAST and an enemy of the United States of America, but just because, as you are concerned about this, ass, a nation the iranian later. Does that mean that you load, Donald Trump, so much that you can't see straight loco throughout history. We ve been up against any number of figures who we lower than who targeted Americans. It doesn't mean that taking them out or trying to overcome regimes, we we we don't like, as is the way it makes sense for american Farm Policy- exists, always gotta. Ask yourself even gain in the narrow, by getting rid of an individual Do you gain in the large, and when I looked at the Middle EAST,
I don't understand how we benefit from increasing the degree of conflict and violence in that part of the world, making ourselves, as well as our friends, much more vulnerable and then taking a step back. I don't understand how this is good for the United States, even though this administration- let's just judging by what it says it, says, the principal child is facing the United States are no longer in the Middle EAST in part, because we reached a degree of energy self sufficiency, but there in Asia, with China with North, Maria others would say in Europe with Russia show how descent thousands of american troops in the Middle EAST The way there so busy now protecting themselves, they can fight terrorist. How does that leave us? for how does that make strategic says so people like me, look at this and they are still step back and they say you. I understand the logic of going after somebody bikes virtual money in the abstract, but in reality is the United
say Schaefer. It does to contribute to our global strategic position, and I would please say on balance absolutely not. We have. Been mired in the Middle EAST now for the best part of two decades. This administered as well as the previous one, we're dialing that down this now, dials it up dramatically in a way that again, where we're going to be far more vulnerable there and far less able to advance our interests around the world, arguably also far more vulnerable and run, and ISIS Donald Trump still has no idea how much of this is going to dial up conflict in the Middle EAST, because in that the view we played view of him talking to you, you had on Friday, he didn't even know whose sole Armani Wise misidentified him. Occurred after usually was trying to lead in that direction. Ignatius you and I spoke it seemed daily-
for a very long time about the iranian Nuclear Deal, opposed to it you You are a news man you stay down the mentally. I think you called it a cosmic, a cosmic that a cosmic gap But there are all of opposed the Honeycutt Nuclear Deal who act the deal was dying said well, we ve transfer the money. The deal and place it holds them and check for fifteen years. Europe is going to stand shoulder to shoulder with the Iranians anyway, as pulling out at this point, doesn't seem make a lot of sense, but We find ourselves in a place where the Iranians had committed to fifteen years of a nuclear phrase and that just what away over the weekend they are, but their nuclear programme has started back up in fair
as you say, the Iranian, so and ass. There. Suspending cooperation with this agreement goes to the basic question- that sector upon pale, raised or asserted that workers for now, because the actions that are and killing general some money and suspension of cooperation with a nuclear remit, as is one aspect of our work safer, but there are others that may prove more important. We have had stop our operations against ISIS. A battle against a vicious terrorist group that was sustained through two administrations. The what came over the weekend, that's over four now reason: we don't have enough assets enough surveillance, drones and other overhead assets to protect our four this everywhere and also conduct this operation,
a ship with a rock, a crucial building block of a more Stable region appears to be a kind of casually lateral damage of of this operation? The iraqi Prime Minister, it's been a supporter of the. U S surely lead that parliament vote too. Move toward pushing us out and then drop in a classic moment of Miss Reaction, the thunder that they would sanction Iraq harder than sanction the erotic If you wanted to ensure that somebody in that part of the world would not be willing to compromise, you'd make a statement like that and finally were now, position where our leadership, military leadership is basically hunkered down. Ass, the Middle EAST waiting for what they fear are gonna be attacks in multiple locations. That's why
the demand for are we have surveillance assets is so is so enormous. They fear this could come in many places at once, So that's where we are after Thursday, night and Terrible things, Joe. Is that some things you come at you by surprise? This was predicted over and over when the issue came up. What would be the consequences of killing some money that has been rehearse for ten years and Try me answers the same. You you'll end up with with fewer efforts are more or less the same thing with the maximum pressure on IRAN on on the nuclear deal. If you do this, it will not push them toward negotiation. It will. It was stiff and their resistance to negotiations. Those too predictions by the intelligence. Airlines are being borne out before our eyes right now nine or Asia. Here, like pictures in Tehran, predictable
All of this is very predictable and again, I must say it was surreal. Over the weekend I didn't know most people looking at what had happened? were wise enough to say they have no idea where this goes. But what shock to me was again: Those who were celebrating the death as a great military victory for the United States of America. I just I wonder where they then for the past sixteen years, seventy percent of Americans, myself included ported going into IRAN, because we were told their weapons of mass destruction. We can Sure Saddam Hussein, Iraq, excuse me, we captured Hussein. Saddam Hussein was killed. Chaos as spread through that region. The past sixteen years the same thing with more market avi. The axing turning beyond these ever. Do us, the United.
States went in and killed more market avi chaos. Continues to spread across the region. For those actions do we, really believe in twenty nineteen that the killing of one man, in London why the killing of Osama Bin Laden there's the what happened after that? Well, it happened with, or without that, killing but again Mika those that killing acting as health those that are acting as health as if this is some sort of bore game and we knocked the king off the table are just ignorant of history. Let let us hope for the best and let us we all agree that this guy was no a malevolent force I've always said, IRAN is the epicenter of terrorism and it has been since one thousand nine hundred and seventy nine and he was the chief terrorist and that epicenter of terrorism
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feeling the emotions and the closeness of somebody else, even if they can't be in the same spaces them virus is keeping us home because you here to cast off the music, the importance of music is to keep our spirits we're in this situation and, in my opinion, may as well make the best of it subscribe for free. Where were you did your progress. Other main military adviser to IRAN Supreme later or tell CNN that Tehran would retaliate directly against. U S military sites. The former defence minister said quote: it might be argued that there could be proxy up nations. We can say America, Mr Tromp has taken action directly against us. So we take direct action against America.
Said quote: our reaction will be wise, well considered and in time with decisive Deterrent effect, an added quote. The only thing that can end this period of war is the Americans, to receive a blow that is equal to the blow they have inflicted afterward, They should not seek a new cycle while meagre. Let's go there. You know there Some messages from Homeland Security, that american citizens in America could be at risk. Who is really at risk now that this rock has been? thrown into a wasps nest. Very certainly american troops in the region are very much at risk. The Iranian, I think, arch trying to keep escalation with in the military sphere exe.
So a money was a very big ask Latorre step here, but he wasn't military target, and so they are going to respond in kind. Are they for most America here in the United States. They are physically going to be ok Iran has not demonstrated much ability to pull off kinetic attacks inside the United States. You may recall they tried to take out the saudi ambassador, here in the United States, and that did not work well for them. So I think most Americans will be fine, but it really important to remember that IRAN is a very capable cyber actor and the attack that cripple the city Linda, was arranging and origin. So we can expect that might see. Cyber attacks against american targets inside the United States the mere it is interesting yesterday they are both Iranians and later. Well, I said, are attacks will be on the United States military and not against the american people,
and I think it was the leader of Hezbollah, who even said attacking american civilians, would only play into Donald Trump sounds. It seems again there when did choose our targets wisely, going to make sure that it doesn't the empowered, I'll drop politically right. In to take you back inside the scene in air force one. He assures the surreal moment his press cat and there is an ethical football game. The yes and Eagles wrong screen minus one moment the president even mentioned light of kind of a dull again today While he was talking about the possibility of retaliation. We I posed the question them as to whether he exe did somewhat would be like, and he was almost accepting over here. Drugs and said if it happens, send them warned IRAN that were they to right back. Of course. U S would hit even harder in again rule out any sort of these attacks on cultural sites. So John Harmon, we also asked about the intention: that he received the laws and to justify this attack and much more? This is the present who have time and again has cast doubt on the. U s.
Intelligence agencies who did not want to believe them with their conclusions about Russia's involvement in the twenty. Sixteen election has even repeatedly, of course, question they re, tells us that led to the two thousand three war with Iraq so but he's not make either war powers act economists into one via the war powers, act that this was justified, but does this president have acquit have enough credibility to make this case to Congress and american public? Well, I think the answer to that is com We know in the sense that we have reached this moment job and I think, where Where the last three years, we have sat and waited for this day in some sense the day where the present will be making were thrust upon him. It's taken basically took three years and now we're here, in this case its foreign policy crisis that was in some part in some measure. The crisis that was in some part in some measure, driven by IRAN and and is measured by the president and his provocation? There, occasions. His counter provocation. In this case, I think this
is the thing that we ve talked about. The moment would come when president stands at the brink of on the edge of war potential leaving the country into this kind of conflict. Moment when the reserves of the capital store of credibility is most necessary, and I think, just because of his attacks on the intelligence agencies, not just, although partly because of those partly because of all the things we over the last three years, but most fundamentally the fact that even the presence biggest span acknowledge the fact that he is a pathological liar, hold lie after why, after why? We now have these running, covers thirteen thousand lies, of course, three years, those should we are going to take a tall, they're gonna we have a piper will be paid. I think this is the moment where that could be the case, because there are something like fifty percent of the american people these are not matters that should go. These are matters that are incredible, matters that are trivial. These are not matters that should go. These are matters that are incredibly profound and I David Nations. I want to ask you this question: is I've been reading you carefully over these
a few days. Is this the start up to kind of on full, but in addition, To that question, the question of the presents credibility and what happens the president, who has none, or at least who is squandered all of it lets say, with a good half of the american people. What happens This circumstance like this, where that president, who is for his chaotic leadership style. To begin with now comes kind of spurt me that we see the tick talks of How will these decisions were made? So, on one side you have present that has, in my judgment I think, a lot less credibility with the american people that you would need in this circumstance, if you're going to have the support of a broad swathes of market public, also the present whose behaviour in for are instances is carefully raises doubts and clubs concerns. But in this case, is there any but you ve seen about how this decision was made. That gives you comfort, but this is meant that these decisions are being made in orderly, rigorous discipline,
responsible way, or is this another issue for trumpet this point where the war reading about how this decision was made erased pretty profound doubts about his leadership. So John, my reporting tells me that the president, the attack on December, twenty seven that kill the? U S contractor near Cook was with a menu of options for action. Nation. He in that instance chose to strike at the shop militias in Iraq that caused a lot of death. Twenty five the motion were killed. All then attacked the embassy in. I think that was images of the attack on the american embassy in Baghdad were really haunting for for his advisors of some like sectors, they planted lose acted so much
Benghazi, the loss of work life and in Benghazi. So a new set of options was put to the president, and I am told that although a killing taking out Customs alimony was one of those options that some of the commanders and under present Trump were surprised that he chose that one. They follow the orders of the commander in chief, but the commanders, no because I've been through this so many times about the day. During the knock on consequences of such a decision that they are now huh now across the region that their there they have had to suspend our some of the operations that are most important to them. So is simple answer your question is Our military is advising the present there giving him options. He is the decider are our best guarantee of of good sense is that those in
the same experience people's before you know Richard We ve talked at length over the past several years about the dangers of having a president having manner and she had no previous governmental experience. Had no previous military experience had no real interest, and so being America's history or foreign policy still from arms at most over just was just came from the guy. That was he's got instincts, and he would tell you that as well. If you read out of the deal He a brag about never preparing, never rating, just showing up and seeing what would happen while they want ask you: where are we now as a nation in terms of of origin? kinship with our allies minor enemies. Are allies that we have a press who has comes to Iraq when it comes to IRAN? Where would the rock is, is talked about breaking? the Geneva Convention by Seas,
the oil lands that we invade he's now talking about targeting a culture of cultural sites never mind what that governments spend since nineteen seventy nine hundred and got one of the most extraordinary histories. When I'm a six, ordinary cultures on the planet and then, of course, the targeting of really in a fact, their number two person in IRAN who is being grown to be pro that country or some other top civilian position, and while the s it can be argued that was illegal, and you artery argued that your financial times peace this weekend at the same time Richard we we're going into territory that we, second in third world countries and the Soviet Union, foregoing and do something just because some may have been legal, I say, makes the image
case in no way has been proven, doesn't mean it was smarter, strategically wise. So, let's just this, let's just put that to the side both what we're Joe is essentially at America. First, as a lot of us to settle long is increasingly America alone, so we're going out Rock. Now we're threatening Iraq. What sanctions? Not only does it make it more likely. You ass true so be kicked out, but Greece is a rock pretend dependence on a ran or Russia or others plus the sanctions, if we ever put them into effect, would weaken Iraq's ability to to challenge terrorists on their territory. Incomprehensible, we get out of the two thousand fifteen nuclear agreement alone. We don't have the Europeans or anybody else with us. We threaten the cultural It's in IRAN that doesn't get iranian to rally around the government and I think you know all
This raises questions about American Exceptionalism Council rather than a Richard. Can I interrupt you for one second, that can you just verb for people that I haven't been paying close attention to IRAN over the past four months? You said it gets. The Iranians to rally around the leadership talk about the did the face, Donald Trump did the iranian leadership, who was facing the worst protests since nineteen, seventy nine since its founding in eighteen, seventy nine here they were too. Listing narratives, going on in the Middle EAST over the last couple of weeks and months as you suggest, one the one inside Iraq, where they arrive, these in many ways it turned on the iranian Jews and what we ve done. It interrupted and instead now the Iraqis are turning on the United States and then in IRAN itself to the president's undue. His sanctions had increased economic hardship within IRAN
people had turned against the government to some extent I dont want who exaggerated but people request, all the money that IRAN was spending on its farm policy rather than on the quality of life at home. But again now that narrative has been interrupted and instead, people are being feels compelled to rail, around the government too, because they morn Sula money or because this threat against cultural what I've been arguing all along as we should have shed publicly to the people, government of IRAN, you ve been doing these things we sanction you, but we will stop sanctioning you if you behave responsibly. If you stop your nuke your program, if you stop us subversion and so forth, and then the gun. Bit of IRAN would have had to explain to its own people why it rejected potential sanctions relief, because was following this confrontational foreign policy. We have done just the opposite. We have not given
the iranian people any hopes of a better future. We ve not, of course, the iranian government to defend it its ways we have actually taken them off the hook. Just one day one of the real crises of the iranian Revolution last spring in and Bc News, national security and military correspondent, Courtney Coolby with a whole new dynamic in the region. Troops heading in Iraq is one us out. What are you hearing? That's right, so we oh that the one battalion of eighty second airborne, which is it called the meat responds reaction, force, phase out of four Brad They were brought in last week, specifically in response so to the protests in Baghdad and the threat against the. U S, embassy. There will be a Colonel two battalions, plus some more eighty. Second airborne troops star Moving in over the weekend, they're moving into wait some into Iraq as sort of a regional? stability is what the military is, calling them they're there to provide security to? U S, troops and installations throughout the region
but in addition to that, there is an entire brigade of the hundred and seven seventy three aviation brigade or Airborne Brigade based out of ITALY it's on alert in case. They need to be brought in Lebanon to protect the. U S Missy there? U S, allies? U S, installation and whenever they could be threatened their and now we all so have an amphibious, ready group. It's in the region that an including marine expeditionary unit, which is about two thousand twenty five hundred Marines, but are also in the region and could be brought in as well if needed, so. We have an enormous number when you look at where the? U S military was just a week for ten days ago, verses where they are now the number of troops that are now flowing into the region or on alert to be brought in its up tremendously from where was this is not just because of the the death of cousin salami Mika, though this is also because of the protests in Baghdad, the? U S
strikes that that the strength of the US took last weekend in Syria and Iraq against some could type Hezbollah. There was an increase threat from that, so the US military footprint there has already changed. It looks like it has the potential to grow even more meagre and Courtney Coolby. Thank you very much. I mean it at this point Joe. What's your make, given that no troops are potentially moving preparing, this changes every and could be launching us into something. Quite big again, it suggests that the presence of the United States, who did not even over General Sue Romani, was a few years ago, had no idea what he was getting into had no idea the size of the Hornets nest, but he was kicking. This is like he's already had to send more troops over to the Middle EAST. After this attack, Course, a couple of weeks ago, we reported that he was sitting more troops to Saudi Arabia. For a president who said he wanted
Get out of the Middle EAST are for. As an who said, he didn't want to be in another, says with the Middle EAST and their endless wars. The way that George W Bush and brought about the actions of this past week. Ensure that his administration will be just as a captive to violence coming out of the Middle EAST as both Barack Obama. George be bushes administration until Donald Trump leaves office still morning Joe Report suggests, several officials were caught off guard by the killing of the IRAN in general, but not my qualm pale, who was reported a leading voice in urging the president to pull the trigger you're watching Joe we'll be right back.
Why are you convinced if there is an imminent operational attack, getting put together against american interests? You convinced that taken out salami has done anything to stop it. We would really culpably negligent. Had we not taken this action, the american people would have said that we weren't doing the right thing to protect and defend american lives. The trouble is crystal clear. Is it that eminent had it, and there is? The writer is what the attacks he was putting together so in and so big. It would have been seen as that kind of negligence made the right decision, lots of intelligence. You ve seen some of its out in the public at the death of american and December twenty seventh intelligence on the go forward basis of risk as well. The present made the right everyone is so was the justification than that he's been this destabilizing force in the region for so long. I was the justification. This imminent threat chuck it's it's! Never one thing you even at this a long time the american people are marked too it's never one moment is never one essence: it's a collective. It say it's a false racial awareness of risk, when you say
tax or imminent, how imminent war they we're talking about days. We talking about weeks, if here, american in the region and weeks. This is not so, this relevant, we have to prepare, have to be ready and we took a bag. The battlefield sex, there is state MIKE Bumpo appearing on all five Sunday morning shows yesterday. Meanwhile, the wash imposed, citing: U S, officials, reports Pontio, spoke to tramp multiple times every day. Last week, after the attack on the U S, embassy in Baghdad and that Palmdale, along with vice president, my pants urged him to kill Scylla money on December. Twenty nine proposed reports that from pale defence sector remark: Esper and the chairman of the Joint chiefs travelled to Morrow Logo, where the two defence officials presented the ball responses to iranian aggression, including the option of care
doing so lamenting the report says: Trumps decision came as a surprise and a shock to sell officials briefed on here decision, given the Pentagon's long standing concerns about escalation and the president's aversion to using military force against IRAN Genome and an official in the Middle EAST. We, the knight of the so modern killing bed he at least to comfort by the faggot palm pale was grown up. That would be in the room. It ends up. According to the reports over the past twenty four hours had it was that quote, grown up that actually pushed Donald Trump Tromp. Do this act of brinkmanship on IRAN? right in yes, they does appear to me. That appears to be the case Joe, and that that is reporting is now. I think, pretty consistent across multiple outlets with with well source. Porthos. I think we can. We can start to take that to the bank. At this point, I do think to go back to
a theme that you raised in the in the first block this morning, which is thus needing to be not to fall into that the trap of amnesia to be historically aware. You think back to the gulf between two to the Iraq war and in the kind of arguments perfect precedence here, but in the same way that about Saddam Hussein back made now thousand to two that were made about about I was saying in back in two thousand to two thousand three you this cadre of advisers around Donald Trump were very much like the NEO cons around George W Bush, who had the edge coming into the administration of trying to find a, to get Saddam Hussein out of power and and took nine eleven as a an unjustified in that case, excuse to move on on Iraq. You have, I think case a similar kind of consistency. If there's one thing, if I compare this begins, as has been known for a long before it sector estate, one
for one of the CIA, one before it became associate with our trump was asshole business on around this is this: is the key and a move that my pop Hale S for a long time and in it and we don't want it is the case or many bad guy there I'll I've not Herbert The Democrats, who have not been willing to acknowledge that the world better off, without so many in it at the same on the question of why now the question that Richard House of have been raising are out there and I do think that one has to look at this- Dr Advisers, around Donald Trump Microbes elite, foremost among them, who had been looking for it acts use to make this kind of a hot move against around for a long time. I saw the opera unity here with the iter, on the other embassy in Baghdad in and said, let's go and Donald Trump was, I think, for largely emotional reasons again, based on the reporting we been ready. Are so emotional reasons were pushed was pushed it open should that he would never ever ever imagined advocating are pursuing when he was a presidential candidate. Never well, of course, see in fact,
said just the opposite right for four years, leading up to his presidential run and while he's on the campaign and over the past three years, so definite the question is what what what why? Why Britain, why this active brinkmanship, when alone was on the fence, you think about think about their actions. Thinking some striking out at Saudi Arabia, thinking about thing about them, shooting down an amount brown think about all the other things that they were doing that and yes, the killing of the american contractor was great tragedy, but there's no body in the Middle EAST, there's doubts and in the United States that doesn't suggest killing of solar money will lead to many more doubts and just one They say that the United States IRAN, on the run. They again the protests, may not have been.
Stabilizing the government. The long run, but the Iranians we're raising the worst internal descent. Since nineteen, Seventy nine! Since our founding fathers, years ago worse and that the descent in two thousand so why is it reminded my talk, professor said I'm not going to take the chestnuts out of the fire for you you're going to have to do this? You yourself, it's aims that we have done just bad for the Iranians instead of phasing in Arnold is that now there are facing a more unified country than ever before, instead of using push back from the Iraqis gradually starting to do to do tat of uranium influence it is now the Iraqis. Turning on the United States of America? Why
this this brinkmanship. Why now, what will be the rewards politically over the next ten years? draw. Obviously we cannot predict the future one way or the other, but one reason that the present took this. This very militant action was a thief. Here that he had It is a rising even more starting with fantail, but because he had acted with relative restrained through the summer, Iran staged provocation. Attack shipping in the Gulf, Danny were surveillance drawn, took out. Deeper side of Saudi Arabia's oil refining capacity. Briefly, the. U S did nothing effectively and we're What's to those uranium provocations, there was a fear that, we were losing our ability to deter IRAN, and I think that fear on present transport, I'm looking
I keep saying I want to negotiate IKEA. Sun shines. By the japanese Prime Minister to Tehran. They scoffed my son Mccrone or talk to them they wouldn't either. I think increasingly trump- I hope that his hopes for negotiation we're going nowhere. This is why apples wars is this process of miscalculation, weed, see here on inherent advantages. We live like they re made better David Letty Wrong. Let me interrupt let me up David, but he had a shot, a chance dish down on a rainy and drown in response to the shore. Down of an american drown that would have been proportional, that would have been understood, he could have told get in a military target is somewhat again why why such a disproportionate act, when all its going to do is keep Donald Trump, and you ask-
troops entangled in the Middle EAST for years to come, Germany! The terrible truth is that if you don't take those a relatively modest proportional. France's along the way you you build up, a big stack of self confidence and the other side, and then you think you ve gotta. Take overwhelming decisive step which obviously present decided to take and killing this iconic here of the iranian Revolution, I've been hearing from a military command. For months. This concern that Ukrainians I seem to be getting the message through various channels. We use lots of channels to send the message to IRAN last six knock it off. They. This took pride is taken ass little bastard in southern Iraq, so signal one must receive. We do after Inadequate deterrence Those messages have to put of blame on. Yeah here is inadequate.
Systane ointment must be received. We do have to the blame on IRAN, Iraq? Iran has continued to push for unilateral advantage in parkers its embattled at home, feels were wager economic war, but that's how we get get here is Miss signals and the overwhelming, probably inappropriate decision making the end by the U S and then that now we think how do we are we try to on throughout this? So we don't up and up general work. You, on a table mere. That's that's a great frustration, at least for me. Let me speak for myself: the uranium Sudan We do nothing the Iranians, target Saudi filled with. Nobody does anything they're allowed to disturb chaos and Bozrah. Nothing happens. We finally spawned with with the embassy assault, but bit help us understand
as a White House reporter. How could Donald Trump seemingly have decided to appease the Iranians one one time after another after another to to such a point that We were actually stating They show just last week that the present refusal to ever responded their acts of aggression or only going to empower them even more, but how does a present go from using the shoot down an iranian drone are responding in kind there to actually targeting the number new person in IRAN, which of course seems to say that's a bitter than say that's over modular. Is, I think, an understatement. Let's start by taking a step back, there to his campaign where he swore presented a contradictory and times incoherent, policy vision where one hand he would say that he wanted to remove you S. Troops from these forever wars pulls out a Middle EAST.
Time, say he was bombed, the hell out of ISIS that he would. Would have wanted it both ways, and yesterday a border force one. He told us actually solidarity is someone he'd been watching while that he was knew that he was a threat that he was. He was greatly impressed with his sword rhetoric. He felt someone who was able to the grace fire up the other side, realize he was a danger. That's at quarter reporting in and echoing what the wash unopposed has. We reported as well over the weekend when you presented this array of this menu of options after that contractor was killed and after the the deities storming of the embassy He immediately seized upon the most dramatic one calling for this for this strike, and they said a few days you're, his aid sort of or taken aback, not sure they quite have. The justification for this benefit is gathering intelligence. They reproduce to him the day to day of this attack, and he, but he was farmers like this- is what I want to do even aware. Of what consequences may come, so Richard
I mean I saw you sure of shaking your hadn't has we're going along their talk to just a little bit about you. What does happen next? This is some it's a democracy, a potentially tinder box here we're seeing this footage of the streets of Tehran you. What what sort of response can they deliver? Could Tehran risk delivering? What should Americans expect what did they? I say all this was baked into the cake over three years ago, when we base If we got out of the nuclear and we practiced economic war, fair against IRAN. Of course they were going to respond, so we live huge we are now where we are because this process we start is, is it is if China, no one ever said that this president, if you confront these guys first comically then militarily, they all respond. And this world and set in motion a series of events that are inconsistent with America first and concern focusing on China or North Korea. No one ever pointed out the contradiction to him. Sorry didn't internalize it and its policy, but now already seeing two things that IRAN is doing, one
the first serious moves to get out of the two thousand fifteen nuclear grid, which at some point one percent us in Israel and others, but some big choices to make. The other is IRAN is going to increase the odds that we are forced to depart Iraq and crease IRAN and influence over Iraq, and that also, I think, we'll leave Iraq much more vulnerable to turn after that, IRAN has any number of devices, whether cyber, whether its losing using militias the, I think about what We haven't, we heard a lot from Saudi Arabia. Why so, at any rate, hammer to three weeks ago, around Iran has also some options against the soil, who are not self sufficient and authorities know they can't necessarily count on us. What triggered this? It was spoke more anything else who was an american die? What if the around and basically go around the world that the Middle EAST and say furlongs? We avoid killing Americans we can do all sorts of things to raise the price, the United States, by hurting their friends by hurting their allies. Charade time it can choose. What did the great irony of this is done?
Tromp has now she did the strategic initiative to IRAN. The answer to question is whenever a rod watch wherever they want. They now can decide to what extent the United States has to focus on dealing with threats in the Middle EAST. This is now We have now moved from a strategic situation where we had the initiative. We are going to focus or on China, North Korea. What have you more at home, IRAN has the strategic initiative. They can decide that we have to react to what or whatever it is they might do around the Middle EAST enriched. The greatest danger may, in fact bade the Saudis and other can allies around the region? Is your exactly right? Donald Trump is not going to respond military militarily any acts of aggression from this point on, certainly not in an election year and An American is killed in a less direct american target is struck, which is why this These have expressed concerns, and other Gulf allies of expressed grew
concerns about what the Americans did. But I just want to push back just a little. On what you said before he said, then it was, Let the fuse getting out The deal and and and putting these harsh restrict, on the iranian side. It was so a money and that the arrangements who helped prop up a side and and and helped help push for that. Bath in Syria that ended up killing. Five hundred thousand people in causing the greatest refugee crisis world war two, it was so Romani and the Iranians, of course, who continue to prop up Hezbollah who continue to to target american troops not only in Iraq but around the globe and try to kill american troops. Across the globe buy me so I mean I'm taking no to have, as you saying that it was we who led the fears
Romanians have been aggressive. They been enemies to our allies. They ve been enemies I did states of Amerika. It seems that of the Europeans are responsible for much of of whatever befalls them moving, for Joe the sweat limit. Let me clarify that IRAN is not a status quo power. They are an imperial country wanted to increase iranian influence throughout the Middle EAST? Obviously, Iraq, Syria left four for decades, and they had they had been succeeding. What I said, diffuses we basically rather than fighting them back in many cases where they were pushing. We were fighting them back, for example, in ensuring instead, what tells was the one area IRAN was complying with its obligations, the nuclear area, whether you like the agreement or not. They weren't compliance with it. We our shells. Out of that and then we we basic
We committed economic warfare against them directly and we didn't give them a diplomatic offer, and that is where the route of this current crisis or european. We IRAN had been a problem for years and all sorts of ways and that's why we're doing a lot of what we were doing in Iraq and we had other options for helping other countries and, as you a few minutes ago when they did things. The saudi Arabian we could and should have done things directly against them there, but we took it to them directly. We didn't give them an alternative. Shall we kept us waiting? They have now responded. That's why we ve been on the show talking about the potential for exactly this, that, because there was no structured diplomas
the danger of the United States in our and IRAN. Stumbling into a war has been there for three years and we are finally now on the brink of stumbling into it. Hey it's crusades this week in my pocket. Wise is happening I'll, be talking with computational biologist, Carl Bergs Drum, but what we do and dont know about that, run, a virus once these things get out there- and this is quite a sort of a key aspect of misinformation, and just information is the once they're out there. They really take off and they spread, and so Jonathan Swift said several, four years ago, that falsehood flies and truth comes limping after and and that's what happens on the internet, of course, that there is a more recent version, which is known as Brando in both book symmetry principle. And it says the amount of work that it takes to clean up both does an order of magnitude larger than the amount of work it takes to create it So we definitely see that sort of thing happening with all kinds of conspiracy theories, including this one around the virus at this week on. Why is this happening? Search for? Why is this happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe
Transcript generated on 2020-04-20.