Good morning and welcome to morning, Joe it's Thursday March, tenth were following several fast moving developments out of Ukraine this morning, Fixation after a Russia attacked a maternity hospital in the city of Mary, a pole, images of women being carried out on structures, flying debris and a crater some thirty feet deep, the bombing sparking internet our condemnation that Russia is still targeting civilians after meeting with Ukraine's Foreign Minister in Turkey. This morning, Russia, Sergei Louvois, falsely claimed there were no patience inside the hospital when it was attacked the Ukrainian diplomats, said his request for twenty four hours cease fire was denied and that Russia conveyed the attacks will, continue until demands are met, plus new concerns this morning that Russia could be laying the groundwork to use by

logical or chemical weapons, and what could be a looming crisis at the Chernobyl nuclear plant, the power or is still out and so far no signs that the Russians who now occupy the plant, our trying to restore it and the best over out to get fighter. Jets to Ukraine gets complicated as the country's president jobs, the? U S fort denying a plan by Poland. All of this, the war enters day, fifteen, where we have U S. Special correspondent for BBC Caddy Kay Nest and Associated editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius and former NATO's Supreme Allied Commander retired for STAR Navy Admiral Jameson, breeders, he is chief international security, and clumsy analyse for NBC News and MSNBC. So really a lot of horrid news coming out yesterday for the people of Ukraine

another day of bad news for the russian military. Adjusted their complete and that this on the battlefield in just put a little bit of contacts to all of this bad news. You do have a meeting between two foreign ministers this morning it didn't anywhere but the question is: why did they say behind closed doors? During the meeting you have? The Russians and Zalewski now seemed a sort of circle, each other. The broad outlines of a deal that could happen Ukraine declaring its new neutrality, Russia, getting Crimea and these two breakaway russian republics again. It has happened and bit, but we are now starting to here too if that were also, of course, to foreign ministers getting together instead of the joke about a conference we saw

last week in the first week in a war to the highest level meeting between the two sides. The ukrainian delegations had not much came out of it, but it was a start that they met together, though Sergei have robbed. The russian Foreign Minister is Meeker, pointed out waived concerns about the attack on a hospital on maternity hospitals, children's hospital and said while they were housing insurgents in there. There were no patients there, that's just true. So it's hard to negotiate across from a table from someone who is that this is not an errand missile. This is a target on hospital. The world health organization says: eighteen, hospitals, health care workers centres. Ambulances have been targeted in this war, so you combine the aptitude that you're talking about Joe with war crimes and that's a tough to negotiate with in good faith that is country and negotiate with an added in good faith? Obviously, war crimes being committed by the day David Ignatius instil Ukraine negotiating

with Russia and the two sides. Actually Trying to figure out how to get too to a place where one lives can be saved in Ukraine and to Vladimir Putin's third rate. Army will cease to be exposed for adjusting the absolute debacle that it is this. The war of its painful for for both sides were both sides, do have reasons and negotiate Russia has risen, negotiate because its forces increasingly or walk into what would be a long term trap. Take them years to get out of Ukraine if they persist. They do not have the forces to occupy a country whose people clearly detest them. in their cities, their citizens are getting pounded these horrible scenes. I brought this one, it's like watching child being strangle to see these scenes appear. You also rain has an warning that the idea of sending jets that won't make a big difference in the

come of this battle that sending jets the wrong thing to do that cool heads must prevail, so Joe as we know we're on the edge of what could be a nuclear confrontation it chooses to escalate into that space. You also see this morning more dangerous than the cuban missile crisis right now. So it's you think the recent crisis it was. It was a negotiation. It was highly dangerous, but that wasn't a war going on between the two sides. Actor is now had asked why it so wasn't conducted under the right of veto in CNN Msnbc World Fright, Kennedy could could meet with his advisers think carefully and find a way out of it. in a different and perhaps more and more dangerous situation. That's why I take the reports of diplomatic negotiations that we ve been discussing this morning seriously. They haven't gone anywhere yet, but I, if the diplomatic exit

this crisis is certainly in everyone's interest. Equations in other countries may maybe getting involved, so Israel interesting way. Israeli prime minister, not Taliban met in Saturday, Moscow with President Putin. That's an employer relationships and if there is a pathway towards more serious negotiations, may be that it will be one can only hope, kind. O K, as David pointed out when you look at the the realities of this peat, as he said, both sides have reason to negotiate. I think the question on everyone's mines is Putin understand that or is he just driving forward? No matter what, and if one thing doesn't work, he'll go for another unthinking nuclear power plants, I'm thinking chemical weapons all of those options, chemicals, nuclear

I think that at this point unbelievably, we can't totally dismissed two weeks ago. If we ve been talking about this, wouldn't I think we would have thought your crazy, but now here's the White House saying we do think this is this- is a serious possibility that we have to consider the signs out of that meeting from Turkey good I'm in the here's. The ukrainian Foreign Minister saying Russia is not in a position at this point to establish a cease fire. They seek a surrender from Ukraine. This is not what they are going to get. Ukraine is strong. Ukraine is fighting and the aid to present President's olenska, saying today we're going to retake dumbass Crimea. So not even opting the status quo ante wanting more than what they had before this started, because their ukrainians feel there in the strong position on the hot head side of things and allow kind of diplomacy to carry on behind closed doors, which, I think is what has to happen, the more publics,

in the United States and Europe see images of babies, crimps in hospitals that have been overturned and bloodied, mattresses and women who have heavily pregnant being taken out on stretches, what pressure there is, of course, on p petitions to do something anything if we all realize the risks of those escalation. Well, that vat is about Israel challenge. Russian people could see it. That would be a bigger, different right and a role that is obviously a challenge: as we are talking about hoping that the Ukrainians and the Russians get to a negotiated peace that can avert world war. Three that can avert nuclear strikes. Americans are seeing every day these war crimes that are taking place on television and and nobody talking about regime change in Russia right now, because at pushes us possibly even closer to the break but bid

follow up. If you will on what david- and I were talking about earlier, I just about how poorly the russian Army as day s days go by how poorly there looking to their friends and enemies alike, are to their friend and enemies alike, and why Item we're Putin has every reason in the world too to bring this to a close before the army is exposed before he's exposed at home. Even more, I think that's correct, now said Joe, and There are a string of war colleges around the world that are run by all the military's every one of those is gonna, be studying this as a fundamental central case. Study in military incompetence. Part of the Russians, and even more than that on. a case study of what war crimes look like in

I think that is going to go for a long time on the world stage. Second point: you know David mention correctly that there was no CNN. There was no MSNBC back in the day in the missile crisis, he's going to show you the biggest weapon in this war. It's right here, It's these cell phones and flip side. There was no visibility on this. He is. There is a lot of visibility and let me tell you something to russian people are beginning to see this. This is bleeding into the networks this, indeed so over time. I think that that will have an effect when, couple that with the sanctions which are going to strike and begin to really by you know, Russians are going to be living on bread, potatoes and vodka for a long time and then, finally, when you couple that, with the military efforts to close here,

bringing in the support to the Ukrainians. We can have a debate about bringing the jets or not, but the point is we need to get a ukrainian see ability to create a no fly zone, gotta be more than stinger missiles. We're gonna have to increase that capability. I think NATO should continue to look at a jet solution, but that may take some time to work out. In any event, if we do those three things Joe, I think that does undermine plot a mere Putin that here bring this to a close sooner rather than later, and you you raise that telephone makes the point that that I was talking about a couple weeks ago, where my My russian professor in night gene Eighty three said The Russians feared the xerox machine for more than they feared the persian crews missile being deployed. I want it wanna talk to you, though, about how significant this military humiliation is too.

two to Russia and was set the Soviet Union, because it really is one of the site, I've been reading alive from your friend, Doktor presents gay and and nineteen eighty three rights. Moscow's power is uniquely one dimensional, relying exclusively on the might of its military power. The other elements of traditional great power status are beyond the Kremlin's reach, whether that economic capacity, techno logical innovation or ideology, I appeal to the rest of world this is so devastating: the Putin, because really all they have and it's what doktor presents using and eighty three, military might and really when you strip that down all they have nuclear weapons, so not just that. Military might is being except it's the core

of russian power and what they ve always seen as russian power being proven to be an absolute, shambles and you'd. Since thing fascinating about this. Being Second fall, the Soviet Union explained. So, as you sing Joe, sometimes the scribe. As a gas station with nukes notes, is the siege energy power. And it has a military machine and that's about it Walter Machine is is being shown now not to be working and its special damaging the pudding, because that was one of his projects. He knew Russian army had just decayed that this, was lax that conditions free young soldiers were intolerable Agus hazing. These will not well meant. stir well provision armies and is, it's been a project out for a dozen years, and that project is now shown move, I think, should have failed

These columns run out of gas. There are other supplies, they're, not getting off the ground. Individual russian commander simply don't take the initiative. The reason that that common stock that we keep watching. Every morning I went with a kid is because individual commanders didn't have the initiative, as they saw blockage to move out to act right by two generals: high ranking generals killed and one week to two areas so that all the bad things it happened, not drive and having happening the Russians and it cuts directly two problems: leadership, because this was his issue, so I That's a concern when you see the second fall, the Soviet Union's early in the story to say that, but I think possible Putin's Russia is in the process of being squeezed and what's left of it in terms of its economy in terms of military power could be seen differently, less than now and so on. That opens away

the idea of thinking about a different russia, five years from now the rise in encouraging life. If Doktor Beaton skip your dad was here I'm sure you would be would talk about that. What how do we think about getting Tibet, future weathers a different kind of Russia Willie, but we have to stories unfolding right now course. The assaults on Ukraine, the ukrainian people, the war crimes being committed, every day in his David said, What we are seeing unfolding before our eyes really. The second collapse of the Soviet Union the astonishing is someone put it yesterday. Vladimir Putin has collapsed twenty five years of progress for the Soviet Union in the space of a week. When you look at what happened in the economy based on

this decision to go in to Ukraine, as David was talking there, we're looking images of that maternity and children's hospital in Mary Opel that was bombed out by Russian Airforce yesterday, and we see Richard angle has more from there. Is that a lot of mere Putin says Russians should be proud of what their soldiers are doing in Ukraine, but where's the. bombing. Children's and maternity hospital in us surrounded. No patients were reported killed in this attack, but pregnant women were among those who were helped out of the building you he called it a war crime models, as children are still trapped again, the realise ways necessary for russian troops today to do through a hospital Russia denied. It was responsible, no rush forces have been cutting off Mario put four days, the city has run out of basic supplies.

We don't have electricity, we don't have anything to eat, we don't have medicine. We have nothing. This woman says at an urgent care hospital in Kiev. Medical officials used Russia of deliberately targeting civilians across the country in every room. We saw civilians, this man having a bull. Remove from his leg, The Jason Room, a man, the brain injury he'd, been under his bombed home for two days before being dug out. How are you in the medical community handling this war? There is kind of duty, We have two because we are doctors this day he was escaping a suburb north of Kiev. After troops bomb their house. The family, hit the road and was quickly stop by russian soldiers who waved them on board. is their car started. Moving. Another group of russian troops sprayed the car with bullets.

Sixteen year old Katerina was shot in the back she collapse. unconscious. On top of her eight year old brother saving him uh sure I remember that we were driving and the first then I saw was my knee then was shot through to the bone Silverstone after that it, GO fainted. Her mother, Tatiana was hit by two of bullets down her legs. Whilst he was pleading with the Russians to stop shooting but Chica The bushy started, shouted stop. There are children here stop, but they didn't stop and kept shooters, three or four p Where should I just as close as you're sitting right now? Her husband feels guilt for not having left sooner what russian media are not showing these images instead, russian Phoebe, described these special military operation as a heroic struggle against Nazis back and Marie Opel, the crater to. The hospital gives an idea,

of the sheer size of the bomb dropped in the center of the city he's here are being laid to rest in mass graves, hearkening back to wars, Europe thought were consigned to the past, and we see Richard angle reporting there from Ukraine. Not only is Russia not showing those images to its people, the government there now describing the attack in the reports of it on the hospital as fake news and information terrorism saying that there were ukrainian soldiers in the hospital joining us now live from Levine Ukraine, NBC News, correspondent, Molly Hunter with more on the efforts to open these humanitarian corridors molly. What does it look like their will?

morning. That's right! This is the sixth morning that residents in Mary Opel, in some of those other besieged cities in the south, east and minorities, have woken up. Families, waking up and merry laughter days of russian environment without heat, without electricity without water thinking that maybe today is the day the baking it on buses and get out of that city to safety. Will this is unfolding right now, but we did about fifteen minutes ago, get information that there was a humanitarian corridor loaded down with medicines with water, with basic supplies heading from Sapper Asia to marry a pole, which is that humanitarian corridor will minutes ago. We have just learned that convoy has been turned around. It has been blocked part of a cease fire Willie. Of course, any agreed upon ceasefire that the icy Arcy brokered here is that humanitarian aid, lifesaving humanitarian aid gets to go in, and civilians come out with. I we have seen absolutely no evidence all week again. This is these six attempted to get residents and civilians added an area where we have seen no evidence all week. If any one has been able to escape that city. Now, as this is having as its is unfolding right now, we are trying to get more reports that some of those other routes are apparently seven other Ruth this morning, the highest level diplomatic ceasefire talks are going on between the russian Foreign Minister and the ukrainian Foreign Minister, as you guys already spoke about. I just want to share with you some sound from the foreign Minister of Ukraine about about had outgrown. This morning I was

to make all necessary calls right away. ensure humanitarian corridor from money. But I proposed it my proposal was not might was not followed by was not supported by minister level. My impression is that Russia is No in a position at this point, to establish, this fire. They seek a surrender from Ukraine. This is not

they're going to go well, as AEGIS heard. They seek surrender from Ukraine. That is not going to happen. According to the ukrainian Foreign Minister, now of fraud for Foreign Minister lab smoke directly after that seeking to justify their strikes on that maternity wards in Mary Opel, you said claiming without merit and without any proof Willie that maternity hospital was a legitimate target because there were local militias will we have seen the pictures we have seen the video there are eighty photographers on the ground. There is proof, but that is not true. Willie. can hide those images from Russia, but they can't hide them from the world and they see Molly Hunter in the western part of ukrainian Levine. Thanks very much so Joan Meeker you have. We just heard from Molly the Russians blocking humanitarian corridors, stopping food, water and medical supplies from getting to cities that need them. We ve heard reports of

russian troops firing on those humanitarian convoys in the past and, of course, as we just saw with our own eyes, those images of maternity hospital being bombed out by the russian Airforce guy does edges scenes of whore. There's no other way to describe these is other than war crimes, but this is what Russians do. This is what Vladimir Putin does it's, what he did in the lap of its white, what the brush Instead, in and Grozny, this is what they do, because this is all their capable of doing David. I do wonder, though, you see these scenes of horror. You feel a bra for agreeing to a meeting it, which is about as high of a level that the Russians can give something they weren't willing to do two weeks ago when they began this and basins when they thought it was quick and

A new here the lies, and you hear lab rat saying they expect nothing but total surrender. Love Ralph knows that Ukraine needs will never surrender to families. A nose is poor noses. Every military strategy knows in the world. They ve lost this war, they're not going to win this war and that's not being pollyanna. That's just you talk to any any military strategist pages like they're, not going, ever be able to do this country. So it does sound today. the Russians. I may not be done but for a peace deal, but they are trying to make. The situation is horrifying to the Ukraine as they can to drive them to the table. They get the agreement on neutrality and they get that agreement on Crimea and get that agreement under Danglars and, of course, the Ukrainians going in there. Opposite directions? I don't know now we're going to take back

Crimea. We're going to take that back to move in the gulf. Is this really does sound like two sides that may be trying to find a way to get together? So we keep talking about exit ramps and it may be that the ultimate exit arena for butter improvements defeat over a long term. I want to ask MR readers: studied war, all his life. What traces he thinks! What Putin has specifically admiral. I want to ask you about what choices he has in terms of escalation. One thing all of us are concerned about is that facing this blockage in Ukraine could choose to escalate into different domains. Concern that he can use chemical weapons concern, obviously that he could you the ultimate weapon nuclear weapons. Do you think those fears of escalation, realistic and having you think, responded the topic last year's cyber

I am very concerned that Putin will reach for, if you will David horizontal escalation, take the conflict outside the borders of Ukraine, musing Cyber in sorting ascending order of target till go after as the sanctions put pain on his population try new cyber to put paying upon our population itself. Potentially he could go after gasoline networks like the colonial pipeline hack. He could go out food chains here, moving up a notch, he could grafter transportation. Think air control thing train management as it moves cross country, both here and in Europe. Thirdly,

he could go after financial institutions. Those are very well protected. Their harder targets than the first two I mentioned at the high end, the scale. Potentially he could go after government command and control military again very hard targets. He will probably choose not to do that as the russian state, but issue if you will letters of Mark two Ni Cyber gangs- probably that's the model that was fined, for example the ransom where attack on our gasoline network so picture high gas prices on top of. Oh, you can't even get gas. That's the way, I think he'll try and do the escalation in terms of nuclear. I think that's very unlikely here. Not seeking the apocalypse here think he's. Angry bitter upset a deeply.

supported in its military, but I don't think he's crazy or irrational, so look for cyber and then finally, the gas in the biologics it just for the record. I was Supreme Ally commander for NATO. The? U S has no biological chemical weapons in Europe. We don't do that, we're out to that end, he will try and plant that false frying, but David Bottom line, I'm watching cyber and on the cyber front me the last call between Biden, and prudent when there was talk about cyber attacks, of course, Biden like food now. How many pipelines to the number that Russia had and in in his own way.

Those are nice pipelines would be a shame if something happened. if he saw yesterday, there was an intriguing story that came out of Finland, that the finnish government is reporting the planes flying near the finnish border and the russian inclusive of kept calling grad have reported that their jp asses have had been interfered with, and that started after the finnish president met Biden on Saturday here, Washington to talk about expanding Finland's ties with NATO and so roaming, as we look at tat lines and bombs and chemical warfare, and all these different options on the table. Sweden. Has and what the world

and do it as a response. I still think about getting to the heart of the russian people like. If you look at the scenes from the maternity ward, you look at the video that came out of the blown up maternity ward of women in labor being carried off a baby's being obliterated that information could get to the russian people. There is no russian woman who would stay? by that and think that is ok and I wonder what what the ability to win on that front being able to get to the russian people with the real information as to what is going on, What we are a long way from meeting to have CIA agents running around inside the country with the mimeograph machines, which have the audience doesn't know what I'm talking about me them rapidly change

those days are gone, and so yes over time. I am certain what I'm seeing on my cell phone is going to bleed into walk into Moscow in to Saint Petersburg into the more sophisticated levels of the russian population like it's gonna be a while until it can down to the level where it creates the kind of this role response across the entire population. Screaming, but you're right. We are not only in a genetic battle here: Rockets farms, tanks- we are now. only in a potential cyber conflict. We are in an information, conflict and bottom line here. People, say to me. Sometimes admiral you're right. It's it's a war of ideas, kind of It's really a market place a market place and ideas. The US we're gonna win this, but we gotta compete in that market place. We gotta get our ideas out. There

We have the technical capability to do that. Flasks, thought for any Swedes or Finns who are listening. Please join NATO accidents on way. We'll have the inn on Friday that our right admiral James to rid us. Thank you very much for your inside once again this morning, and still I add on morning Joe with the costs of war mounting and his army in disarray, will talk more about Vladimir Putin running out of options and how dangerous That prospect is plus what the White House is saying about. New concerns on the use of chemical weapons. Also, this morning were joined by the chairman of the foreign relations community, Senator Bondman end, as your watch you morning, we'll be right back guys Willie guys Tier, reminding you to check out the Sunday sit down podcast on this week

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Sid entered levels to protect people's basic rights in United States, wash the maybe I'll censure a Monday through Thursday, at seven p m eastern on the choice from MSNBC. On this streaming service, peacock and Sunday night at eight p m eastern on MSNBC plus for the man who has to show wherever you listening right now to follow and listen to the pump cast thirty three Passe. Our new intelligence report from the UK this morning says: there's been a quote: notable decrease in russian air activity over Ukraine. In recent days, Britain's Defence Ministry believes Russia is pulling back because of an unexpected effectiveness of ukrainian AIR Defence forces through report also says the large russian convoy northwest of Kiev, as made little progress

the past week and their suffering continued losses joining us now. National security and less for NBC News and MSNBC Clint was at the Big Board with the maps and emeritus professor of war studies at Kings College London, Sir Lawrence Friedman. Thank you both very much for being on this morning. Catty k, yes, salons. Thank you for joining us. The youth written a great piece of space and time and the options facing Vladimir Putin, and you ask several questions about morale both within the ukrainian forces and in the russian forces. But let me ask you about the russian soldiers. You made the point that the soldiers, many of whom are conscripts aside to be frightened and find themselves in an unexpected situation. How are they going to respond as this drags on and how are there, this is going to respond as they watched their own forces loss of morale,

we know quite a bit about very carefully at all stages of this about overstating the russian problems. But that's because reply surprised to find ourselves in a position where they seem so great, an English to big consequences. First, you can see the russian commanders very nervous about trying to take, Ukraine, cities, what we were expecting was formulated and warfare, while before this time hasn't happened, and it is something they ve got the truth that can go into these and now depended urban areas and taken that's the first becomes could. Secondly, the logistics, as everybody has noted it is very poor- is very cold at the moment the russian members at some point. I'm gonna, be thinking what

of damaging prepared to accept to the long term capabilities in about forces, the launch and morale about spot by keeping them added value, thus particularly relevant in the north. As again as many people have noted in the south, it somewhat different because the logistic lines are easy, but even then there their record on taking towns is prayers. Pretty poor, I was laughing Maria pulls become such a target for its largest seem to there showing just and distracted ambitious, staked beach. They really need that that to actually to give you an essay nervous about trying to take it by source that transcend every other way of bringing down and clear

Mary localised we ve been showing our morning has been savaged, including with that attack on a maternity hospital yesterday, but what's happening in the rest of the country, obviously so many eyes on the capital city of keys, how closer russian troops there now and how our ukrainian forces holding up around the city That's right, Willie. What we had yesterday. We talked about these three axes of advance, essentially closing and around the city, obviously ukrainian military still doing a fantastic job of fighting this off? But time is on the side of the Russians and solar logistics. When you look today, once we zoom in a little bit more you're, seeing that in the eastern part, now of key you're starting to have troops advanced many reports of skirmishes on the outer boundary, I think that's where we see a change in the north. If you see this now you're seeing troops creeping in here from north west. More importantly, here from the east to areas here, bravery and hears Elisa, though,

to access of advance. You probably know receive see, seem to match up with highway system if they can do what they are trying to do, which is essentially seal off Ukraine from the east, the nor and now they're moving around from this convoy that was heroes very stuck to the west. It will keep in a situation where they can only really resupply from the south, totally enveloped. I think that's what we're very worried about, at least at this point. That's why get to a situation like we have with Marriable here down in the south yesterday with Mariah Pole, We saw this awful awful airstrike that hit. This is a hospital complex in Arusha, kidding right in here, causing mass death and destruction. The rush, of course using this information. I think that's the next layer that we need to look at whenever the Russians are moving in and they get stuck or bogged down. They start looking for options and that's where their disinformation star state indicate its really telling on themselves. They start to indicate what they might do. Several is it happen again,

and the east, we have fighting between Simeon Car achieve that information coming out of the Kremlin yesterday talked about school or location that may have chemical weapons to the North West. A car keys, You look back in Syria is about seventeen times that we believe that used chemical weapons and Syrian the Assad regime. Russian right there with them Why would you used chemical weapons? Will if you bypass depopulation centre with the advance of your armor, and you don't want to go back and clear it. It's a way, to attack a city kill all the people in it without destroying all the infrastructure things very dangerous situation that we see here in the ease separately that talks about the humanitarian corridors. Even when you see evacuates since coming from these cities. Today these this is becoming increasingly dire situation. Food water starvation in dehydration exhaust from two weeks, a war as we enter the third week. I think this is where we have to talk

the ukrainian morale over time. When you see all of these civilians moving to these population centres closer to the centre of the country, again, We look at the russian advance, its assent, Let's try new cut all of this off. Oh there's gonna be a long term problem with how we help ukrainian civilians inside the country David Ignatius Entity in question, but that I must ask you if the russian start using chemical weapons, to kill tens of thousands of people in cities to the calculations of NATO change about whether they intervene so that's the situation, it is impossible to predict. The chemical the weapons of mass destruction that their active use in this conflict. Again, Defying international opinion takes us in the space that we we haven't been and

I can imagine that there would be simply acquiescence, as those people died, I take that away. They did use them in Syria, and Barack Obama said that was going to be a red line, of course, famously and then road from the red line in terms of intervention, so they have been used in the world, did not risk. If you talk to anybody the Obama administration. They will go back to that moment where through the red line and then aloud and then stepped back across as one of the low point is helping. I Joe, I wonder, are our ability for the moment it is focused, obviously deterring that action was interesting, that yesterday Jen Saki also, a visiting Senor british official both mentioned concern about russian used chemical weapons. I think meant, as a warning was accompanied by a red lines statement even, but it was the morning we know China eyes. One ass Clint at the map

quotas, you look at the configuration of forces now Ukraine still has a substantial army to the EAST of Kiev, and I'm wondering if you see any possibility for, ukrainian counterattack to relieve pressure on some of these big cities. and give them a little more breathing moves that still possible or they choose to squeeze now, for, I think so, David. I think it really comes down. I don't know I don't have a good understanding what their food and water situation is. I think that's really maybe the limiting factor at this point. There are several spots now where we seen ukrainian military pop up here. Our key. We talked about yesterday to the south, that's very close to the russian border. The other spots is Mika, live here in the south, when you look at the south, which is really where the russian military them better, they start it resistance Again- and this is contested area around meek alive, so once the Russians take it or blow through it the ukrainian militaries right there behind there's an amazing footage of assent

farmers taking a russian tanks and essentially taking over there. The big question, I think is they have to prevent essentially that north and south access from joining- and that's what's happening here from that nuclear plant. We talked about last week, you're, seeing the Russians events from the north and sue me you're, seeing advanced south, so I think for training military. The key is to keep these two access from linking because when that happens, much like we saw here with this land bridge from Crimea to marry a pole you see that move in their logistical trains are much more advanced. This is rail trains, essentially moving supplies back and forth. We talked about it, you could go with most these nuclear sites at major rail heads which allows you to move armor formations very, very quickly or do resupply so keeping each of these acts ease, broken essentially and separated and keeping them russian Airforce out of there that's another age or achieve nothing is still possible. I just don't

a good handle on what the ukrainian resupply is like or what is going to be like overtime. Professor Friedmann and the british government has now agreed to send star streak Anti Croft missiles tell us a little bit about those how they compared to the sting is and how much difference they could make on the battlefield for Ukrainians in the context of NATO and the West seeming to have decided that sending aircraft themselves today Craniums is not something that prepared to do

basically answered the point because we are not prepared. I won't be prepared to put our own crashed into the side. Are you making it harder and harder to try to make it harder to russian aircraft, which there was quite a number of ready to oppression? Assistance? Is another system basic which enables the Ukrainians to knock out russian russian I craft, which have to fly quite low if they actually want to process the porter to their ground forces must have missed it about the ukrainian position. He has been very little advance really in recent days and the enemy craning, suggesting losses supplies coming in from

West. Its is not quite a star the situation for them, as you might imagine. So this is a tough fight, but I will go to tighten open country bears. A great friends has been picking out russian supplies in ambush in units. The two Gandhi touched from the main force in use. intelligence feeling, the need to support through the west is doing in intelligence is also salute not to be underestimated. So I think you craniums are still in a pretty strong position in defensively our own, America's professor of war studies, it kings College, London, Sir Lawrence Friedman, thanks so much for being with us inclined, is always thank you greatly appreciate you were being with us again today, David. I just briefly want to follow up on some That was just said. No, we!

the United States in the west. Of course, we always focus on the glass is half empty. What we're not doing? The planes that twenty nine old outdated, Migs were not sending ukrainian, the boots on the ground, the no fly zone, that's what that's too much discussion centres around that it's a professor said the west the United States, getting extraordinary amount of of of weapons across the order in the ukraine- and you saw it, talk about it so Joe I last weekend I was travelling with General Milly Germany's Russia's you staff and I did see this- strong, ordinary pipeline of weapons? It's coming from United States and other western countries? I saw racks of Javelin eighty tag missiles on their way into Ukraine.

I saw a sea seventeen that presumably had just brought them their great big. U S Airforce play and of one after another, these plans or landing. We were told that fourteen wide body plans were landing every day and it is particularly pleased near the and were with full of weapons. Javelin stingers other weapon and moving quickly through routes that people- wouldn't it live in two into Ukraine, so that that supply effort, as extraordinary people should know about it Ukraine's for having successfully these scenes, we see of TAT

Conway is under attack, that's because of those javelin muscles and then the stingers are taking their minds. I was very encouraged trust. Her freedom is one of the world's great experts on military fears and if he he believes that the Ukrainians are doing better in this fight than we may appreciate. I think that's your sender, and one reason is because we are really turnip push weapons to them and obviously the thing that we should do Thus going forward is how we get more weapons, how we give them more of what working for them the snark, given the stuff that more work, in my view, it would be in that category as given more what what is working to stop the Russians coming up ukrainian President Zalewski has been vocal about what his country needs to pilot Russia. Our next guess just spoke to him about what negotiations with Putin might look like that is Next morning, Joe.

I've been seismic changes in our culture these past few years from energy and finance the ways we socialized. So what's the story of our future. I'm MSNBC crises join me for a special for port. Many series on my part, ass wise, is happening right. Doktor experts about the changes were facing this week host of late night, Seth Meyer on the future of energy mix silver linings. The pandemic was this weird thrilling. Bree said as far as what the show was wise is happening. Phutra subscribe for free where we get your pockets. What is missing in Mean asked a simple question, meaning he and the one in a nice ass would manage to them and what must be clear, fraud work. The angle, Sir Knight errant MSNBC with special coming question a forward, and specifically, are you going taught me three or process care about which you phone? If no now, when and if not, the free press then

and if what you discovered doesn't match your expectations can in fact Jack this forest. Keep asking yourself hard questions, confident not be tough on the answers. It's just not true fever facts over conspiracy. What should american citizens know relying on experts not influence there now going to debate and again and vote again entrust standards of refusing MSNBC this is what we do in this area. Despite the horrific scenes, we ve been showing you this morning out of Ukraine, the country's president says he remains hopeful that flat. Putin's war will end diplomatically. That is presents a linsky told vice news. Corresponded Ben Solomon, take look canyon, make a compromise with Putin. Can you trust, prudent trust, Oh no. I trust on my family. How can you make

a deal with somebody you dont trust, then we have to we have to, because the subsidies for how to stop this war, only dialogue and honest dialogue with him he the brazen diversion and Russia fighting against Ukraine. They came taller than dollar houses. our children. We we didn't within it I use approaching as we didn't, invite them by their heart but they're here, what would be Your message to president important right now, right now right now: stop the war begin to speak that and what, if he doesn't I think you will. I think fuel I think he seated where's trunk. He will we need some time.

And then joins us now lie from key abandoned extraordinary interview. Their serve kneeled down at a bunker therewith sandbags around you obviously presents a linsky has been an inspiring figure to the world with his public performance. What was your sense of how he's holding up there? You spent some time around them and, as he says, how can he trusts Russia? Just this morning, foreign minister laugh Rob and an orwellian statement said we did not attack Ukraine. We are defending ourselves from Ukraine. What do you make of it. why just being a bunker being in the presence of this place that has been put at the centre of so much news covered was really ordinary Justine, seeing the process in which they defend their prey. Embarrassing, the process of which they Go to so many measures to make sure it secure was, was really impressive in an interesting for the most part, our time with them talking through the telling

was retired could tell that he was really busy ferried in and out many quickly, Sir, the guards surrounded by security. For the most part, He seemed very honest. I think in many other interviews and many other appearances and can tell media Saturday's dreaded talking to the precedent that was a comedian without it in time. So was really interesting. Two approaches, as a precedent, but as it's. Just a person in somebody was experienced. Talking has experienced understanding in terms of in terms of me priorities that acting in which case it would be interesting to talk to you about that and its relationship with NATO in a way that that's Windsor, changing on that. it's obviously now that This war is going on and in that time I think, came across it, and you know he was a bit disappointed that, with the way that they do

and in supporting him or the lack of closing the skies, but she's been asking for four weeks now so so it was really interesting. The kind of pressure on these points in and get a true and clear sense of the current state, these positions and his its interests scan with increasing urgency in the last few days for that the no fly zone from NATO, which NATO and the United States- but if we say they're not going to provide at this point, then you also spend some time in southern Ukraine in the city about death residence, their preparing to fight for their homes, like so many ukrainians across the country by building molotov cocktails, want to take a look at that here, in a desert, Ukraine, at a Molotov cocktails factory to bomb factory ever his is in to make thousands of these

instructions from the government on how to use them. We seem online clips like photos and diagrams at the best placed to throw them at russian tanks and armed personnel carriers. Pretty amazing. This album, can a coming together and learn how to make these factory. munitions just out of whatever they can. These are going to stop the missiles he's going to stop the big attacks, but here just going to be able to do what they can. bad. As you saw a close, it has been remarkable to see how regular citizens civilians of this country- you know whether they're eighteen years old or eighty year old, lining up to get a rifle or women who their children in Poland and come back to join the fight have rallied around this. But, as you also point out in that clip Molotov cocktails are not necessarily going to stop. What's coming from the air targeting, for example, maternity hospital in Mary Opel yeah, I mean across the country it may we we ve been here since almost the beginning of its invasion. Now across the can

What's most impressive been what's most inspiring these the unity of the ukrainian people that are here. People are really trying their best to find ways to fight. We have yet to meet people the world of science we have yet to meet people that work now felt a little about where their position is. I mean everyone is trying anymore it can just yesterday, we spend time on the edge of the city european, which is city. That's been in. The news lay the as it would show that russian forces in the center of the fighting now people are evacuating out it's really harrowing scene with thousands of people streaming out. What we saw there amongst a really dark moment is a lot of Ukrainians just trying to come together to support the people. However, they can volunteers paramedics

its former government officials that were taking up arms in just trying to help people cross the river I mean all across the country, no sign of people that are not afraid and that are really Derek did to fighting in its judgment than spend an inspiration, and it's been something that I think it's been a powerful to show the world. and, following the lead of the man, you spoke to present Linsky. Vice news, correspondent, Ben Solomon, bringing this the more to us up close thanks. So much for doing it. Please stay save their ban. You can watch more bends interview with President's linsky tonight on vice tv. Coming up here, we will live to the polish border with Ukraine, for an update on the unfolding refugee crisis in Eastern Europe, plus the former. U S ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Avant of its joins us we're back in just two minutes whether its complexities of climate change, the challenge of racial injustice or the threat to american democracy get your daily.

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