Ok, views on many states in view of the much more honesty resident rambo has never been sweaty. Soaking wet freedom exists. We witnessed a lavish. His dislike gives flather didn't tell us finish up histories to greasy as men. My goodness XIX I am right,

It's a beautiful. It is yeah the light, serines really nice to get to work inside the white house. It is Friday April the twenty second and look at sunrise. It's just be absolutely beautiful in washington, just like it was on, sat there with with donald trump trumpet. I saw somebody. Somebody say that he actually his people were spritzing him. during the break with baby away. Maybe now is how my download some rough stuff there. I'm not gonna lie with that doing so will we do have a big story out of washington dc this morning. Warehouse minority leader, Kevin Mccarthy, is back in we're corn. So you you, will you wanna talk about sweaty yeah, this guy whew? We don't know well kevin, we hardly nick speaker Kevin. We hardly knew ye yeah yesterday denied yeah. Let's add willing to say how about that there's evidence

on tape, but he's still going to go with the argument that I didn't say that the things you're hearing and seeing me say or did not actually happen the words of Kevin Mccarthy yeah, it's unbelievable livable. He did tonight as well. They said this reporting from a new book by political reporters Alex burns and Jonathan Martin that Mccarthy wanted donald trump out after the january six capital attack. It's a logical thought by the way and reaction to the hill. Everybody else who said mccarthy had a call with house leadership in the days after the attack, and she said he planned to call donald trump and ted I am. It was too for him to go, but the denial from his team yesterday was

in no uncertain terms. His spokesman, saying quote mccarthy, never said he'd call trump to say he should resign. Lordy Lordy Lordy there are Tate yeah, the authors of the book provided the audio to MSNBC and just ahead we are going to will and really I'll tell you what else we're gonna do is we're going to target like my cabin or what a? What a donald calling? save steve. I think he still thinks he's Steve yeah. Yeah, steve, stay mccarthy, the former future speaker of avows, here, twenty. Sixteen remembered they they all the republican leaders were together. He said that donald trump was on the payroll of Vladimir Putin. Yes, and he said, swear to god, guy swear to god. I think he is They denied that my

heaven denied that was shown a transcript of vat. He said it was fake news, then they played in the tape at a garage. It's the same thing like again willie these people, Donald trump. My cabin steve. Whatever his name is, and it seems about half the republicans in congress, it's like they think big. videotape has. I've been created yet that labour costs that tapes are just around the corner, but nobody can actually record their spoken. Words and they just heap lying. How about that you're looking at right now, it's another example. He said according to the birth, according to burns and martin in this new book But he was annoyed that there was a picture of his visit on january, twenty eight twenty twenty one. He didn't want people, and now we want to doubt trumped to know the hey, we're ok, but I don't want to. to now that he's gone down there,

but yet this the sequence of events here is astounding that the reporting from the book, by the way that original peace that we talked about yesterday said there were tapes and yet Kevin Mccarthy went out and said I absolutely unequivocally did not say that to which Jonathan Martin and alex logic here are the tapes. So I shall will be. Does Kevin Mccarthy pay a price for that? Will Donald trump come out and say something or will republic hold that against him can he get away with saying in his bubble? It didn't happen, it's the corporate media, it's the liberal, out to get me, even though its on tape

yeah? Well we're going to talk about that. A lot and john heilemann coming up in a minute micah, but first Joe Biden announce a nother big package as eight hundred million dollar aid package for ukraine. The second in two weeks, according to the department of defense, this latest package is tailored to meet the needs of ukrainian forces after russian troops began a new offensive in the eastern part of the country. This later to aid, includes seventy two howitzers and one hundred and forty four thousand rounds of artillery dozens of tactical vehicles and drones field equipment and spare parts along with other items that will remain secret. in the past two months we move weapons and equipment to ukraine a record speed. We thousands of anti armor and antimissile helicopters, droned grenade launchers machine guns, rifles radar system we want

be able to advertise everything we that our partners are doing, support ukraine's fight for freedom, to modernize teddy Roosevelt famous advice, sometimes you will speak softly and carry a large javelin We are sending a lot of those it as well. A girl according to the department of defense, the? U S has committed more than four billion dollars in security assistance to crying since the beginning of the binding, and you know willie reports? Initial reports are, after the ukrainians were train of how it says they turned to the? U S, trainers and said we like these we work. They weren't there were very positive in their close inspection of the howitzers

They certainly were and presents a lansky said something along the same lines to present by which is thank you. This is what we ve been waiting for it. So we heard that that seeking presents latchkey may be saying. These are the arms that you are giving us their lot of em but they're. Not what we need now is saying this is the stuff we're looking for. and it all comes in a context of another grim discovery in ukraine. New satellite images show appear to be mass graves near the besieged city of Mary opel picture release. Yesterday by the? U S, technology for max are reveal more than two hundred too. good graves in the russian occupied village about twelve miles from the port city according, are the great were dug in late march and have been expanded in recent weeks. The city's mayor accuse russian forces of quote hiding their military crimes by taking the bodies of civilians and burying them there in a telegram message, members of the marriageable city council say they believe as many as nine

thousand civilians are buried in those graves ukrainian. Was estimated twenty thousand civilians have been killed and marry. You pull since the invasion began and said the new graveside appears to be significantly larger than the plots discovered after russian troops retreated from boucher cool officials. Also saying the discovery of the graves is more evidence of war crimes by the russian so Joad. Sadly, this is what most people expected to see once there were some eyes on marriageable after the russian invasion and the siege their boots those images haunting in horrifying and now we're seeing them invariable right in and obviously the russians have many strategic reasons. try to hold whole married couple, but they also have that back just a more base reason, and that is why the european can cover up is war crimes are just the atrocities on.

on a monumental scale, so we have so many different angles to get to hear with us. We have the president of the council on foreign relations. Richard Hoss is gonna talk a little bit about what What is the end game here and former NATO supreme ally, commander retired, forced our navy, admiral james, to greet us his chief international security and diplomacy and less for NBC news and us one of course by the rules of morning Joe admirals dravida, says as one or two more stars on his shoulder. So we need to start within hope, you're all right. Without richard eyes, you have a green jacket with near sleepy hollow country club. That's that's more like that. That's very important, but I think we need to start with the admiral admiral. Obviously we will we ever

about the howitzers we heard one Joe Biden said yesterday heard Wenzel Linsky said in return. Now this is well. He said it is pervasive. This is what we need for some time on this this curious. I we spent the first four weeks of this war hearing how the russians it was in. we will do. The russians would take over cave. I was sceptic, well now we're hearing its the role that the russians- because at and I I love what you say that I think you say: quantity has equality all of its own does in normal circumstances, and you certainly know better than any of us here I said you're looking then this new equipment coming in these new weapons coming in you get a russian military vet whose morale is about as low as

As my guide any eddie, maybe that maybe the germans in retreat from from from russia from the soviet union. Maybe that matches how low their morale is, but my god I just don't think it's a given that gets. What it wants in the dun boss. Tell me: how are you how are you sizing up the early stages of this campaign? first and foremost out war is the most unpredictable of human activities right because of all the attendant variables that are so difficult to quantify, and you have finger on the most important one. The centre of gravity in this fight remains the will termination of the ukrainian people, kind of person five by this remarkable chilean president using merge when you cut that joe to decline.

And a package and foot race to get the weapon systems in the hands of the ukrainians out we're seeing right now, which is being one. This is a foot race of our largest stations against low distinctions of russia, so those are who powerful factors that would tell us we, know how this is going to come out, and I would add that again, The ukrainians certainly holding those lines and being able to blunt in major russian offensive but, on the other hand, there is a significant amount of combat power that is flowing forward its well man, each combat power and certainly not well lead combat power. It doesn't have the kind of motivation that the ukrainians have one dear side of those lines, but it's big its forceful, its concentrated and it's got the the

the will of lattimer putin behind him, because I dont see much quit in Vladimir Putin. So far line it's a balance of close by saying these mass graves, we're talking about potentially could be I think that start to move other segments of global opinion here. Remember sir Benita, Joe in the balkans, nineteen five a thousand men and boys killed in the balkans in the town of Serbia needs. It helped shift global sense of what's going on. I wouldn't underestimate that is an information war pivot point here, we're at inflection point in predictable one. I wouldn't bet against the ukrainians. At this point Could you could you answer a larger question for me? Obviously, you know you know military history so well in russian history, so well, why

Why is it that, whether you go back to the beginning of the twentieth century, with russia's war with the japanese, you talk world war, one even the early stages of world war, two the russian russian troops, just usually seemed to dramatically underperform expectations. Do you have any, waiting theories on why that has been their history, I obviously in world war. Two twenty six million russians dying, and in that battle we would not have gotten enormity in june of forty four. I certainly do understand that that was a fight to the death, but when their invading other in czechoslovakia in fifty six in hungary and sixty eight they're, not good they were good added and in and and Afghanistan I'll. Obviously, seventy nine

yeah, it's hard to point to the kind of overwhelming tactical, victor on the part of russian forces in your right to point out the rest, so japanese war, nineteen o four by the way. Our president, at the time teddy roosevelt, gets the nobel peace prize for negotiating in into that conflict. So often with russia day the death road huge amounts of military Power is a vast country with great strategic gaps and scott people who we'll, take a punch and keep going go back and re read one day in the life of Ivan Denise, ravaged by alexander solzhenitsyn, to understand how resilient the russian people can be, but there's never been well lead on a battlefield. They ve never had the kind of motivation that we have seen out of our forces and those of other nations, and they don't

take advantage of the things I said they try to just grind opponents in the powder: that's what they ve done again and again, if we the tools in the hands of the ukrainians. I think there is every reason to believe they will hold onto the vast majority of their country here. It'll be another defeat for russia. Well it today point richard house? You have a piece out about the west really needing to define success in ukraine figure out what an end game is. There has been a lot of discussion on this, show that strategy basically now, just by default, because there are any ones as to where the russians down as admirals to Peters was just talking about just completely supply them with weapons until they just push. russians out, but I don't see the russians tend that saying: ok, let's just go home now doesn't seem like an end, so

How do you define success in ukraine? What are the options The big question may go what's so interesting as two months into the war, almost no one's asked to think about it and the conversations here and everywhere else, ninety nine percent of them have been about. What are we providing ukraine? providing them enough. Should we have a no fly zone? What have you? What about more sanctions? Almost none of it has been what's our definition of success? Is it as you just suggested to get the russians completely out of ukraine, and if that's the definition, are you talking about where things? two months ago, where things eight years ago. Do you want them to get completely out of the east and south and out of crimea, that's. How shall we say ambitious to make sure that russia can keep what its gain this time over the line two monsters right now. They ve gained more than they had

much ago, and this thing began in february- is it to get back to where we were and then the question is: do we insist that this be a peace? Agreement are weak, The double with the possibility that their night might not be any battleship missouri ceremony here. Indeed, I find it really hard to be honest. To imagine some outcome would be

We are not enough for russia, not too much for ukraine, so I actually can't imagine. I don't have the imagination right now to imagine a formal peace agreement. I know everybody would like roman principle, so this could be a very, very long war and my view is simply one of the things I take from having observed or studied the history of war. Is it's important not simply to let events on the ground dictate policy? I think now the united states, it's allies. Ukraine need to start having really serious conversations about. What is it exactly are? Our definition of success is: what are our goals? What will it take to get there? What are we trying to avoid and we had better be prepared more than anything else for a long, long war, I bet I'm sure you're right richard, I will say. Maybe it's just the lawyer in me, always mediating in my mind, it's hard for me to imagine a peace deal that at the end doesn't end up giving.

Russia, part of the dawn boss, that they ve been fighting for for eight years, acknowledging crimea, and and the neutrality of of ukraine, which means they be a nato member, but they can be an EU member and willie. Of course, that would be offensive to both sides right now, but if we're talking about this war coming to an end, it's hard to imagine any other end There are conclusion to the war and again it'll, be that that is offensive to both sides, which means it's probably is ever wants peace, whereas gonna, but but let's go back six weeks. Just six weeks ago of you said one of the three things the united states and the EU what in this war it would be the survival of Zalewski as president of ukraine, because that was very much about six weeks ago. Survival is cave as a capital of ukraine, because that certainly was

nobody thought cave was going. To hold up against this onslaught six weeks ago, and the third thing would be the survival of something I called you crying whether it was half of ukraine or are three for some ukraine, vat, that's where we were six weeks ago. The first now that the our wines for a peace deal that I just laid out would be offensive to most ukrainians and most in the west, shows how the dynamics of changed on the battlefield since the beginning of April, the beginning of march. Excuse me yet no no question about it. I mean there are supposed to be a victory parade for the russians in key about a month ago and now, they're scrambling for the border and re framing the terms of this debate, but richer hoss, Vladimir putin, as you ve said, cannot accept defeat. He has presented this to his people as a great crusade to bring russian people home to reunite them with their homeland. He can't

the way with nothing so to take on the quest that you presented your new peace this morning. From the united states point of view. What is acceptable? What should the united states be willing to say? Ok, so you can have that. But not this the question. As you say, it only took place their putin to start this war? It takes certainly putin as well as ukraine, to to end it and, as you pointed out the process of war. Fighting war tends to harden positions. What my been acceptable two months ago, wouldn t, except now I dont think, for example, Putin should be allowed to keep entire John boss essentially, what is sitting on now and then establish a land bridge to crimea, seems too that. Might that would be too much of reward for aggression and it would leave or a kind of rump ukraine that would be sovereign in any. I believe, real sense. Why take? They need to be somewhat rolled back? Ukraine

the claw back some of what russia has. Has gained shortly, ukraine would insist on up. The problem is really as you ass, I dont think. Vladimir Putin could quitter never accept that. He is worried about the appearance of of looking week of not having succeeded which again, That's why I find it really hard to imagine that he's gonna put is his pen to paper and sign an agreement like Joe says, because, among other things, he would then have to accept the permanence of us sovereign ukraine, unless the peace paper. Why wasn't what white light was was worthless in some ways? It's easier for wars to continue to have the floor, Joe arrangements. Then it is for people to take ownership of agreements that give them less than they think they need politically and strangely enough. That might have apply for different reasons: toboso lansky and Putin, each now have to meet. If you will

own public's as they they seem. So again, I find it really hard to imagine a formal and think about some also some other wars. We ve had the korean war never had a formal, and here we are three quarters of a century later in some the gulf war didn't or some where's that do a formal lands like afghanistan. The papers that are signed are meaningless. So again we may have to think about something. That's much more open, ended, low level, fighting continuing location flare ups, and then we have to think about There's? U S, farm policy look like towards russia and that environment and towards europe and that environment. This could be a long term game changer for for europe and for the united states you know David Ignatius recently sanctioned David Ignatius by russia as a washing depose entirely. Bite and put in agreeing on the limits to the war

a street, their statements and here's what the newly sanctioned columnist. Rights quote the ladys it was my vladimir Putin and president by not for public descriptions of each side, skulls in ways that reduce the risk of miscalculation, perhaps setting the parameters of what the cold war strategist would have called an agreed battle. Putin's new message in retrenchment binds message. By contrast, been more assertive. Stepping up! U s! Military aid involving the resist Putin's has germany over keys quietly recognises certain limits, Putin's renewed emphasis on the dunbar's with its impact that message of limited war. Age could reduce some of the pressures for sk ovation lights and right very I guess there was well. I thought it was very telling David Ignatius about in this column, which we have reprinted in its entirety, for everybody read, but I'm going to let them go and read it, but he eaten

it's about a young girl from the donbass coming to see him and he's any was quite least sharing our don't worry. Things are gonna go back to normal soon. This is why we had to fight the neo nazis it. Yet it wasn't for key if it wasn't for it for your home region, so Vladimir putin signalling. That too, is people now. This is all about the dunbar's, and so That's why I don't know that this is going to be a long term war, because Vladimir Putin can't afford it is for this to be a long term. War because Is going to watch some of those sanctions to be lifted? It becomes, of course, far more difficult, because of war crimes, but I'm not so sure in the end that violence doesn't go to his people and say we're going to take

Eighty per cent of we want what we want and we have to start rebuilding our country. Will let the international community later after, we protect our children? We were petals protect our families. After we protect country? What are you? What do you think admiral? I want to start by saying I wanna- get sanctioned by putin- I have sanctioned re as I'm gonna, get a sanction, so look are on the right now. War is hell, but it's also expensive and it bleeding out russia. Now Putin still got oil and gas on watching the sanctions, ratcheting up, to the degree those can be placed on oil and gas you're going up the that regional and, I think, that's very powerful. I do think there is altered

you're gonna be a negotiated solution. Here there might be a frozen. Conflict is kind of the term. That's use the model that I have in my mind is to look at nineteen, thirty, nine at the invasion of finland by the soviet union, Stalin's tanks, role in their defence fight them to a standstill still and once called the winter work. Winter war, Finland, nineteen, thirty, nine, and how did that in Finland gave up about ten percent of their territory, but they sailed on as an independent, sovereign state. They blunted the soviet this is, I think, there's an outline of a deal there, but it's gonna be months in coming in It got a bleeding vladimir putin more than we have so far go The money.

De. I am so glad you got a feminine because I think I think that is a perfect model, or at least the closest model that what we have four held. This could end, and I I just richard was asking the question- and I m so glad somebody's finally asking the questions that have what is putin want, asked the question, what does the worst one and is somebody that had a little bit to do with NATO admiral? Let's again we're talking about. What's happened over the past six weeks, then richer will give you a quick shot at this law. What's happened, we're going to have finland in NATO most likely sweden and nato most likely the balkan states, which were always teetering now are confident that wins Biden says we're going to protect every inch of nato soil. They believe it. You also have, of course, the swiss who were neutral in world war, two against the nazis, who have

if have chosen sides here you have germany, who I think most significantly, other than finland becoming a member of nato in sweden becoming a member of nato. Germany upping their military budget. It will be a large or military budget than russia's by the times there don if it faced a true to their word. This What does a westward? My guide? Putin has already given us more than we could ever imagined six weeks ago, now this is the grand irony of this- is that everything proven doesn't want is happened right before his eyes? He must wake up every morning and feel like I'm in some kind of ground hot day nightmare here thin in sweden joining by the way that combined defence budgets of sweden and finland are about one fourth of that of russia, as you say Joe germs, he has essentially,

It over the fence is to create a defence budget. That's going to be bigger than russia's. All of that, plus the unity of the west, pretty room workable in you, add two at the failure of his military at least thus far. Appear a dictator. Job, one or one is make sure. You're military intimidates everybody boy. That is not what's happening right now, so it's an explosion of bad news for Vladimir Putin, and I what we want add and this is preserve this serenity of you. and preserves zalewski when there we end up negotiating something along the lines of what you and I were discussing, let's seeing what the next couple of cards are, that we turn over here militarily, but I think we have accomplished an awful lot. We ve got challenges ahead for sure richard arouse final thoughts? I think

the petitioners we'd have to be prepared, for what is it? We are not prepared to let the russians have and second but the battle turns what are we prepared to do in the way of supporting ukraine too put any breaks on them. If it comes to that, so I too, again. I can imagine bad scenarios and I can imagine positive scenarios. The question is how we manage to show the last thing we want to see at this point or major for fishers opening up. we in the west, in ukraine, united states in ukraine- send aid also germany's prepared to agree to certain things and others are. We got a lot of diplomatic management still ahead of us in addition to the military battle itself, We might find ourselves when we were in nineteen, seventy three with israelis and and the soviets threatening nuclear war. If we don't pull them back, so you you, you know, then, that something that we do meagre have to have to look at what? If the ukrainians are so, successful that they start pushing.

Towards the russian border, and then that creates a nuclear crisis, richard house and retired admiral james to free, discovering the many of the war in ukraine for us on this friday morning. Thank you both very much for being on and still ahead on morning, Joe we're we're gonna be joined by pentagon press seconds. John kirby on the heels of president five and new pledge to send more weapons to ukraine, and we can pose a lot of those questions to him plus the big political story. This morning Heaven Mccarthy denies he told republicans in the days after raising hack on the capital donald trump to resign made that promise. It was the right thing to do for cabin so alone, with our aim in the car they is unaware of this new phenomenon. Known is audio boardings or, I would say, he's using a trump tactic which is present something very real, Doesn't he's gonna like Larry David only adds music,

phones that will never wore yeah. Well, that's one way to do florida republic light bulbs no escalate their fight with the magic kingdom to talk about the writes about face on free speech. good morning. Job will be right back hey guys, willie guys here, reminding you to check out the sunday sit down podcast on this week's episode. We revisit a favorite conversation with academy award winner Oriana de bows in a year that saw her win that oscar the golden globe in just about every other word. You can win for performance and Steven Spielberg where

side story, you can get our conversation now for free wherever you download. Your pod casts. These days the news never stops the morning. Headlines changed by afternoon and by the end of the day, it's all totally different. So, let's get into it what's happening right now, what it all means for you for an hour every day I get it. I know that it can be hard to keep up. So let's get started together and go from there, hey I'm Ali jackson, and we have a ton going on tonight. Here's the deal jackson now weekdays at five pm eastern on NBC news now beautiful shot of new york city on this friday morning alive to get a varied teachings turn on your computer and work were mode and then ahead into the city and go out to dinner boy too

what a day working in twenty twenty two as yeah for a lot of people sick sorted what's going on, what what's going on with a camera. What are you ok, If you say what a beer way tat you like new york, I mean it is. It is so beautiful that we see these shots at tedious. Been dial up this morning is you'd like it's, a pretty is pretty its place in the world. Sometimes you forget the smells in the middle of this summer in new york by Julia, futile the city is we're distance willing, What you do just get it's starting to get warm at what it does in new york, and I can say it in my neighborhood and everywhere else. The smells that start to come off. The sun won't have been laying dormant for the last six months. It's released into a beautiful vapor that you walk through, and you know spring is here in new york

So it's in your eyes about k of smiles and sometimes you're, trying to sort things out is at its head. The worst. Is that a dog? Is it a human? It's really it's pretty! It's! It's offend fantastic, a mere little over a lake. Yes, just a MM sd card, and you just I have something valuable to talk about. She can go out much back to back into through two thousand and seven. It was a long have we been on the air well this morning, I think we're going to be on for twenty eight hours, unlike jerry Lewis, I know so it was two thousand and seven. I believe this guy cry star shout what are you going for all three hours will, if you allow me, john

work. He hasn't changed. What would happen if the union is a rare? Why you like, fantastic fifteen years later, bill Karen's, is heading to a new time slot here and emerson busy and boy does he deserves That has also been dealing more in depth, climate reporting for NBC news and sandy. What he's gonna marry need? Who's gonna moves us, because you know the thing is just a sec: We met beringer yeah. We know what did I say. I said about you guys this guy special. The treaties we have free and my family is very sensitive. So, let's handling with kid gloves, and here the years we were very, very gentle, I think, what's for it to well. Many other shows, like bilkent yeah were not afraid to say on the air. I love you

God that was a hoot is bill. Karen the first female character really should retire. He never gets it right bill. Karen Samantha could put a little bit of meat on his bones. Yeah, it makes me want to cry memories that can last a long while yeah I know, do you guys know that for awhile on Google, the number one search for my name was bill Karen fired morning Joe, sir, Let me jbl better than my number one search for the duck yeah. Well, okay, I will we can. We can show the best clips between bill and mike snow, so inappropriate do totally inappropriate. Things have changed a lot but big bill. You really knew special you mean an awful lot to say that on the m- and we do we do love you and

We are also we're glad you can be and we get some sleep yeah, you, god are you going to get a better place, yeah, I'm on it again in the tv world. My alarm goes from one. Forty five am wake ups to like bangor hours like noon to eight pm. So in Joe you and I go back to scarborough country eighteen years ago, covering hurricane katrina and then came in and what make has done would know your value for women's couldn't be more proud, meagre and willie the conversation we had in the makeup room. A long time ago I live in my home to raise my kids in willie's home down the he grew up in on his recommendations. So you guys are a huge part of my lives and I'll be back, but just not on a regular basis well well, we were, They get about way too early to when we started that back in two thousand and nine and we couldn't get anyone come on show bill was

every day, but ill thanks are due in the weather. Can you stick around for sports great? Can you stick around for the second half of that great effectively we're a co host and have become such a great friend, your great dad? You run marathons. Meanwhile great at what you do too were so half before you. Let us know what it's like on the outside. Now that you ve been released. We would really like added by the way we re Belleville, I mean you think, he's good at it at weather and sports right now he's going to go to the big board and he's going to tell us what's happening in ukraine. Military analysis says absolutely over the top of our. If you, if you don't want to do that, why don't you tell us? What's the weather? Look like this weekend all weekend outlook you guys only when you visited me like I was beautiful, we get in the world to so. Let's

those math one more time full screen, they get my mom off the camera, t, J, beautiful weather up and down the east in seaboard ladder. Eighty three tampa eighty eight today, but unfortunately the middle of the country. We do have a nasty you spring store. My apologies to all our friends this weekend in tat nebraska wyoming you're. Why arming gonna have a blizzard someone's gonna get one the two feet of snow? I mean if coast is about as beautiful as it gets, and it's about as ugly as it gets this weekend in the northern plains and then, as we head towards sunday still gorgeous for the east coast. Look at dc eighty four: if the shower is a rainbow of ST louis down the oklahoma city and one of my best parts of the show guys have here for awhile, we had the the starbucks sponsorship in every at the time I had to say the catchphrase at the end you watching morning, Joe brood by starbucks, for the year after that sponsorship ended every time an end. My segment I'd be like you're watching morning, your brood by and then fail so those were the days

those were the bells. Thank you so much and enjoy your kids, enjoy your sleep and thank you for everything you ve done bill. Karen's is already very happy We love your ma, am we will? We will see, you will answer all right, so coming up, John ion is standing by for the big political story of the morning, cabin mccarthy flat out lying and then not understanding that tapes actually prove that he is lying but will lay it all out for and how that's going to affect whether Kevin is ever going to be speaker of the house or not. I mean he's in on these tapes. You've gotta get liz, cheney and kevin agreeing that trump to go. What changed Well, where's, stay true too: they were saying that day she decided to do what was right instead of what was politically expedient, will break down so publicans.

Very they're going after the magic kingdom in this, the political war against mickey mouse. They're going to raise taxes on millions of floridians when they do it, we're gonna be talking to John higher than about that when one in jail returns

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it's all about the issues this country faces and how what's happening in washington impacts. All of us. You could watch meet the press now, every weekday at four pm eastern streams free on NBC news now and it's available on all streaming platforms. Alright, forty seven pass the our beautiful shot of capital hale. You don't warning that really Washington DC wasn't so beautiful in january the six lands for for cabin. It was a beautiful in the days following the big political library of the morning. What is willing and summer salting going around taking lion. Take lying to a new level too star D really say that and the agent trial doppler, but anyway,

MSNBC has obtained new audio of house minority leader, Kevin Mccarthy, saying he would urge donald trump to resign after the january six capital attack. The remarks were revealed by new york's time. Reporters Jonathan Martin and Alex burns for an upcoming book entitled. This will not pass trump Biden. the battle for america stooge her. According to me, burns mccarthy told a group of republican leaders quote I've had it with this guy the reporters right this that muskrats were driving hard at and impeachment resolution. Mr Mann as he said, and they would have the votes to pass now. He planned to call MR trump and tell him it time for him to go. What he did is unacceptable nobody can defend that and nobody should defend it. Hit hold the house republican leadership team

Your times stated in its original reporting that it had audio of the republic republican leaders remarks but Mccarthy still denied it. Calling the report quote totally false and wrong. NBC news also reached out for comment asking if mccarthy said he would push to resign as spokesmen again deny Mccarthy said it then last night the reporters provided saudi to MSNBC, yeah yeah yeah, that's what I get for women Have you got the twenty fifth amendment resolution and you know what happened to your thereafter? You ve gone Is there any chance you hearing that he might is there any way to think that might happen to discussions? I got killed me now.

I started thinking about a conversation with a light heart told a couple days from what I know of them. You guys are alarmed change. Thank you. Never back away that work. When I spoke on this call him. My guess is what I can Ask the house to give a chance for them go and there's a lot of different applications for them now I haven't had a discussion, give a damn that giggling guy, you did not happen, this is one personal she'll. I have I wanna get into any conversations about health I gotta have with, is that I think this will pass.

It'll be my recommendation. We should do that. I mean that would be my cake, but I don't think you are taking, but I dunno maybe she's, reached out to mccarthy's officer common after the orioles release, but heard not that's what the executive producer, sarcasm, showtime, MSNBC national fears, analyse John island and white house editor for political sam stymies great, have both view, and here it is remarkable. Listening to that and its remarkable that yet again here we have somebody in transit. Black and party, even when they're talking about getting rid of donald trump they just lies through their teeth? Kevin Mccarthy denies its people than I did he ever. And there's calls reporters liars? He's then, provided a transcript, denies it vince, the audio tat comes out proving yet again John. I want that he's a liar and this same exact thing that happened

Two thousand sixteen take came out bit sad at where mccarthy was telling of the republican leaders that Donald trump zone Putin's payroll and said, swear to god. I think he's paying up. He denied it. He was shouted transcript. He said the transcript of fake knows, and then you played the tape. I said always just joking. This does sound like a joke. This sounds like a man who will lie through his teeth. And do anything to be speaker. Thou sequestered John ireland is. Is that endangered because of the state, morning guys was it endanger Joe? I think it's actually endanger. I think you know, there's there's no question nos one, I'm in south florida right now, probably not very far in that of miles from from here, where I'm sitting in miami tomorrow logger, but whatever it is. that's where the future cap mccarthy lies now is donald trump, and what is reaction to this is going to be what we I have no idea what the

the conversations of trumpets, mccarthy abed. I was twelve hours in the last twenty four hours in the week before that, or even really all the way back to january, seventh of of twenty, anyone. So what does what is true? trump is not going to punish mccarthy for lying in the way. You're saying Joe right, I mean there's no bigger liar this to the world that donald trump and so that's not going to be the standard for sandra. It's going to be the standard What you're as bad as does trop, feel as though betrayed by mccarthy and- and that question is is, is, I think, is what is what the whole future of mccarthy species speakership rests on. You know you remember to win the speakership boat. You gotta majority the house, so the number of votes If the mccarthy needs will be an awful lot of parties, no democrats going to vote for for speaker, and so it won't take depending on how big the republican majority is in the house. Assuming they get one, there will a relatively narrow margin and if trumpery indicates that he doesn't want mccarthy we speak. Ass. There are not from oil is in the house that it be done so Mccarthy,

I got, however, many weeks between now and the mid term is to make it up to trot power. Offended trump is, and I think, you're going to cede mccarthy doing some extraordinary boeing in scrape and kneeling and subjugated are set, and it's about putting himself at the nea trump the course of these weeks, even more than it already has to make sure the trump doesn't give up Hi sign in and basically kill his future it it's hard for me to see tromp not doing that. Really when you look at the dead, We have, of course, this audiotape malware. He's here, gaming with less janni, to get donald trump out in the white house and get him to resign. We ve got him on the floor. He's blaming january. The sixth on donald trump, we have him talking to other members after january the six saying that he screamed and yelled at donald trump prompt suggested that it wasn't his people there that were riding we.

have him saying that donald trump is on prudence payroll. it's on audiotape is well it's. Yeah really. I think this may be the five final straw again for a guy who just never learned the lesson. You can't bow and scrape donald trump enough he will end up, throwing you under the bus it they had, no matter what It's no question about it. Donald trump, by the way, n characters are uncharacteristically quiet. The last two days is all this has been out in the public will see if he speaks out about Kevin Mccarthy this morning and the tapes. On the other hand, he Kevin Mccarthy will always be his lap dog. So if he runs for present again, he wants Kevin Mccarthy, perhaps to be speaker, so maybe he doesn't go as hard, as you might think, and sam stein what an extraordinary snapshot that was on january tenth that call that we just listen to four days after the attack on the capital, Liz cheney and care.

The car, the on the same page, that this was a terrible thing that something had to be done about it. That Kevin Mccarthy was ass, trump to resign. happened from there. Kevin Mccarthy is now totally changed his tune. He did very quickly. It was at mar a lago a few weeks ago, and as a matter of fact trying to run Liz cheney out of the party he's now supporting challenger to list cheney and wyoming in her rays. He has made Liz Cheney a pariah and yet sam. He completely agreed with her in real time. Only that there is like a few little gems that are sprinkled on that recording. If you, if you notice the first line, reveal that they had a separate conversation earlier. They are trying by using twenty fifth amendment, to get trump bad. So that's now revealed I'd love to hear recording of that phone call to foreign exists. I certainly he talks about making sure that my pants dozen retroactively pardon trump.

which means that he was thinking ahead to the possibility of trying to make sure that whatever punishment they gave to tromp was per. And so you know it's one thing to say: I can Mccarthy wanted to call donald trump and push them out of office. it's deeper than that he was scheming of ways to do it, not just by having a phone call with him. Of course, that's all passed now within a couple of weeks. He was at mar a lago begging. forgiveness, and this is why somewhat disagree? I think you know four trump. It's not past me, madam your tatum, I think he knows that mccarthy's subjugated that he is a wireless at this point in time I, for that reason alone. I think trump ends for giving him for this doesn't interfere with him if he wants to become speakership, republicans win back the majority midterms. the I'm so fascinated by the state? Can we play this again t j J? I know I know a lot of all viewers probably heard the first time and want to hear it again, just the digestive. We we have the senior citizens that watches the show. Good bet

in the palm beach area you down here again to can we play it up here I get paid to question We talk about the twenty fifth amendment resolution and you have it know what happens if a kid thereafter you'd gone, it is. Is there any chance for you here? but he might arise under anyone to think that might happen excursions. My got killed me now. I still seriously about a conversation with him tonight, I had a couple days. from I know you them, I mean you think you'd ever you'd ever that work. When I spoke on this

call him like this is what I can ask the house, How do I a chance? We have to come and I think there's a lot of different cases for them. Now I haven't had a discussion paper, damn that giving guy who did not happen, This is one personal she'll. I have I want to get any conversations about health. I gotta have with them is that I think this will pass my recommendation. You should use. I mean that would be like cake, but I don't think you take it, but I dunno

My recommendation he should resign or you know what tj I I I didn't get last seemed to be on the same page. They aren't similar. I didn't get everything about the twenty fifth amendment, I'm so sorry, I'm embarrassed to do this, but can you play that one more time I got to eternity I gotta get this down about is a contentious one, we're going to play this one year. Then I get the question when when we were talking about the twenty resolution and you're at it, you know what happened to get there after you're gone. Is there any chance? Are you hearing that he might or dying or anything they think that might happen that the discussion I got killed me now. I'm serious thinking a conversation with him tonight. I had to him a couple days.

From what I know of them. I mean you guys all know, I'm changing, you'd think you'd ever back away but work what I think call him like. This is what I can ask the house. Does it have gone and I think there's a lot of different cases for them now I haven't had a discussion paper, damn that giving guy who did not happen This is one personal she'll I have. I do wanna get at it. Any conversations about health. I get a costly habit is that I think this will pass. I didn't do my recommendation, you should use. I mean that would be like cake, but I don't think you take it, but I dunno

we are so we've now heard this and- and I think the seniors in in palm beach county and across america have probably gotten all of this down as you listen to this, We have been coming gas to who can talk about this a little bit more, but the pair well actually between this information that is spewed out. The fire hose falsehoods that speed, my lad and repeat that has become a part of russian state. Craftily always was a part of russian state graph through the trees century and You do that. What le pen Is is sang in france, what right wing populist say where they create their own reality? We see this with Kevin mccarthy by the way we're going to talk to David remnick on rushworth, the top of the hour, we're going to talk David remnick on russia, we're going to be talking

e p a administrator on earth day, get a lotta hangs on sanctions, but vagina heilman I've just again, where would joking a little bit about Kevin here, because you sound so stupid this is about, but but this is a bomb shell and it will end American politics, I think it's more telling though The lies that are constantly told by this populist tromp wing of the republican party and that has become the defining feature of police Go party and twenty two we need to absolutely frightening. Take it. Take it from from there.

Well well yeah right, I mean so the the leader of the party and that not just the leader but the the guy, who is the the personality who's who's created. The cult of personality in the main feature of his personality was the pathological liar and that is as obviously infected the party as much as any of the of the positions, even the the the the grievance the racism, the the populism, all the start. The trump infected the party with the personality trait of trumps the cor one, the one where he will say anything, any situation and why shamelessly like without any hesitates, contradict himself David bedewed twig between just hours apart The things that are on tape that he'd have said those things that these were made up. He still to this day Joe says that access hollywood tape, the billy bush tape was it was it was a fraud was fabricated right here. That's that's

I were dealing with its guy who has denied that that tape that caught him in the middle of the campaign talk about touching women's, private areas these so that that still apply, that that is a real. That's, not a real thing. Is the attack of piers morgan yesterday saying a mock because hey tim you're, not real? I heard you laughing about it on the show, but that's trump right. And now you see the mccarthy and at the very top of the segment you made. This comment about how you know me see news reached out to the speakers offers to get their common. Now the tape is out- and I want to say this is cool. Is I can that's my blood? uses doing that that's state or journalist protocol, but on other level pushes why like why would anybody believe anything that ever comes out of the speaker's office or out about this because I've sort of mccarthy's office again the majority minority leaders office they have wide in its as bad as the tape is incriminating as it is as much trouble if it gets it with what tromp as much as it threatens. This future the thing- That's worse is what the is office did.

In some ways yesterday for for normal people he's the majority leader of the house, a political party he was ass from other can cause. He was presented with facts the things he said his office We totally cabin. Where can deny that they were true said never happened, no way no way no way, and now we have the tape. Why should we ever believe anything that comes out of it? office again, whether he's minority leader or speaker, we showed our state a state, a state legislator of California. I think he's proven that he's utterly untrustworthy and I think that's the question, not what that's a larger question here, because it still is the case that he's most likely the next speaker of the house. How are we going to handle that going forward? I believe, anything out of his mouth or out of the people who represent the people who who who speak for him? How do we believe them ever again and again the sequence of events. The article is posting yesterday with the quotes in print. The speakers are said they are quote totally false and wrong. The reporters

alex and Jonathan Martin present tapes, audio tapes and still Apparently the office says that that's totally false and wrong. It's very its orwellian sam stand. I mention that you listen to that tape and Kevin Mccarthy is on the same page with less cheney. The evolution away from list cheney began pretty quickly and here's where he is now. This is kind of a car talking about Liz cheney in february of this year,. I arming deserves to have a representative who will deluded liver, the accountability against us by an administration not arrived if that they have today that works closely with Nancy pelosi going after republicans, instead of stopping these radical democrats for what they're doing to this country can, partly in February seventeen talking about less chain again he's backing her challenger there. So, SAM stein aids, any cost to this any more

I think matter words matter anymore. Is there any accountability that people in bakersfield california, who Kevin Mccarthy represents? Are they going to go vote for him again, knowing that he just baldly lies about it and by the way that he showed his true feelings about donald trump and about what happened on january six? Or can he get away with saying it's? The media to its old tricks and totally false and totally wrong, despite the existence of an audio tape where he says exactly when he claims not to have said I mean I don't want to be too depressing about it, but I don't think there's an overwhelming cost to being caught and bold face lie. You know, for while we learn in the past five years, is no tromp. As John pointed out correctly,

repeatedly lie pathologically lied, managed to find his way to the presidency. We live in a political system in which people are completely inaccurately from getting punished for transgressions like these he's in a safe district, where our voters primarily want to see him be combated in support of a trunk. So I suppose, if there is a the page people saying he wasn't closely from that moment need on january sixteen january, twelve but, though, also see that he went down tomorrow logo and made up and they don't like loose change in their fine with him. Turning on her to say, I have a political system that kind of buffers you against ever facing retribution or punishment for being, used as lying ass crises can Mccarthy has been exposed right now. I honestly don't think that he ends up being hurt all that much by this? I do agree with John that it very go for us as journalists to say we trust thing from his office. Again he's been proven to be a liar

not just on this in the autumn, in the article two, he says, he's reported to say he wanted to oust fellow, looking for, for he was twitter, intervened and got them off the platform, and now we're talking about twitter being terrible sensor free speech. it's a multiple levels that he did: but in terms of the political consequences on maturity faces much of a punishment judges. I quit coming in cnn, is reporting. There have been accusations widespread yesterday that Liz cheney is the one who leaked that tape. Her office, saying to CNN quote, represented cheney, did not record or leak the tape and does not know how the reporters got. It just want to sprinkle that into the conversation, good. You know, and as we talk about lying here important to understand how in races across amerika this year, this sort of lying has has become a defining port. of so many republican campaigns across the country, you have, of course cover dorothy lying here, Donald

applying about the election, being rigged being stolen, even though again, all the overwhelming evidence from all the courts, I bet they have shell, that's not the case. You have enough donald trump, saying again to piers morgan when he confronts him a guy that many have considered to be close to donald trump in an ally, Donald trump response, your not real. You have. at least stephen next opponent, and so many other parliaments. We saw this actually. play out on in michigan couple of days ago, their use, q and on ferries, accusing democrats who don't want to ban box being rumours of being part of a pet of failure called the. It is this lying is surreal and again you

get the war and russia and on a massive scale. you ve, had what's call fire hose of falsehoods coming from russia for years before the war, you see that disinformation, you see the disinformation that we ve seen out of hungary, on a different level in the past out of other about parties in central europe out of poppy, movements and brags it. Even though you know I I personally brags it fine with but why did it passed? so much is someone Dis information, so many lies, and that's that finding feature of donald trump presidency, and now we see with cabin. We happening time and time again and republic. Waste, is a clause that country where

you Actually you dont get support the large shock of the republican base and the less you're willing to parent donald trump lies about the alive being stolen unless you're willing to paris to one on lies pedophilia. It's dead, Andrews, is so dangerous and so again with we fight this tape, weave weave We ve made light of Kevin's bungling here, but you pill back, the bungling and there is much greater threat to, stern democracy, and that is again that a large portion of a political party, in the house of representatives is driven by creating alternative reality. Why about it and we honest ashamed of those lies whether it's the complexities climate change, the challenge

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