How about we things up tonight. I also get a little fresh, adsense dean scissors and spy wait. You're talking about going out back again. Are you? Fire beings, albert outback, staghounds were limited time. Try have women fried shriek of russia with our new strawberry. Salad goes through the party in revival. They rely grilled trip on the body in love with a cucumber crash or feeding a while after I am all the more they gone. Let's back Do I have to stay and opinion a personal opinion? on the outcome in rovers way, and my So to you is that I do not see it There is a fundamental concern: the legitimacy of the court. Would be involved. If row were to be overturned by MR I think that there are the legitimacy of the court would be undermined in any case, if the court

made a decision based on its perception of public opinion. So good judge will consider as president of the united states supreme court were as treatment, oppressed and like any other center. I said that it settled as president of the supreme court entitled the respect under principles of stari decisiveness and one of the important things to keep in mind about roby wade is that it has been reaffirmed many times over the past. forty five years as richard fallen from edward said row is not a super precedent because cause for its overwhelming have never ceased, but that doesn't mean that rose should we overruled It just means that it doesn't fall on the small handful of cases like marbury, verses, madison and brown versus the board that no one questions anymore.

We are breaking supreme court news this morning. Politico drops a bombshell, shell, the: u s, legal and political system, with an unprecedented leak from the supreme court that roby wade may be on the verge of being overturned, reversing nearly fifty years of federal protection for fourchan rights this morning, the document that could shift history and the leak that has rocked the supreme court plus the reporter who broke the story will be our guest and it is primary day in ohio. Will donald trump remember the candidate. He endorsed feel some old, though he says, yeah sick, as it can't remember the name also, the latest from ukraine efforts to evacuate the remaining civilians from that steel plant appear to stall amid reports that russia may soon try to end next part of ukraine's eastern region alone.

With Joe willing and may we have the host of way too early and white house beer cheap at political, Jonathan, le maire. And u s special correspondent for BBC news had a k, let's dive right into the breaking news and potentially round breaking shift in american constitutional law. The supreme court appears poised to strike down the landmark Roby way decision. According to a leaked draft opinion published last night by politico, a majority of the supreme court is prepared to overturn. The right to abortion. The league of the ninety eight page document is on precedent. It in the court's modern history. The jap draft opinion was reportedly authored by justice, Samuel Alito and circulated in february a later, rights and port this row was agreed just lay wrong from the start. Its reasoning was exceptionally weak and decision has had damaging consequences,

time to heed the constitution. Returned the issue of abortion to the people's elected representatives and busy news has not obtained or been able to independently verify the authenticity of the document, and the supreme court has declined to comment. The final opinion is expected in late june or early to lie Joe something different moving parts here. But overall, what does story mean for the supreme court well for supreme court in a word illegitimacy. You know that it's always been guided by the law, but it's also been keenly aware that is only unelected branch of american government. They need did not appear to be openly contemptuous of public opinion. especially true today, given the geo peas, might makes right approach to the sacking of merit, garlands dominating elevation of Donald trump's final pick. One more thing: look at the

picture meagre from madeline all rights funeral, the fine democratic politicians on the front row, one the most votes in the presidential elections of nineteen, me too. to ninety six, two thousand, two thousand eight to fail twelve two thousand Sixteen and to them and twenty and yet I have century of constitutional rights. port by over seventy percent of americans. Let me underline that again because people lying to you on other channels, we'll never say this over Seventy percent of american support that constitutional, I dont, be swept away the president's, not in this picture and the presidents who were out voted and each one of those elections over the last three decades. Now Americans wildly conclude, their voices and there It's no longer matter. So what are you? blockades for the court

for the law and form I can democracy, let's bring an historian, John major and also former acting. U s: solicitor general meal, cardio john Let me begin with you and, as kissinger said, I think during vietnam corruption is reality. Obviously the perception for seventy percent of americans waking up this morning is going to be most likely that this is an illegitimate indecision by an illegitimate court. prices of trust in institutions has just become universal in a way that is in pretty much the nightmare scenario, if you believe in the ultimate efficacy of the constitutional order to produce a more perfect union rights to protect,

the jeffersonian assertion of equality to protect the rule of law for all its imperfections? The system has been worth defending for two hundred fifty years right now, a If this draft decision, if the court were, to go this far. You will have, as you were just saying, an extraordinary number of americans, believing that the system, in fact, cannot is not the goal of delivering justice is not capable of reflecting the pillar will even through the constitutional present, and I think that one of the great questions of the era, the gray question of the euro is, Are you- and I are we in this decade? Are we up Democracy are commensurate to the task, and

I worry that were entering the darkest period of that test, because, if you I have any reservations about the system capacity to deliver justice, they have just and affirmed, Claudia again, this isn't actually terribly surprising, based on the oral arguments we heard in the dobbs case back in december, but as Joe points out. Pull after poll shows. This is about a thirty percent position that the supreme court has taken. It doesn't this outbreak poles and operates on whether or not they believe this rovers of which should be upheld, whether its legal, but you ve, slept on this. You ve read through most of the opinion or the draft opinion. What is first blush reaction, first to the substance of it and second to this leak. honestly, I want to cry

honour crimes, so many different ways but budgets to start with the substance of this decision? This is as full throated and It scaler a decision as could ever be envisioned, and yes, after the oral argument, I think we all predicted rovers wave was on thin ice. I think with many. If not it will be another year I mean for the last three years. I've been saying given once justice barrett got on the court rose days are numbered, but to see it in france.

And obviously it's only a draft opinion, but it sure looks like a real opinion. I mean this is hard. This is not. It doesn't. Look like it's a deep, fake or anything like that. He uses all of justice, leidos kind of signature moves, and so it really does feel legitimate and what it means just an abortion first is that states can now pass laws with no rape or incest, exception whatsoever, prohibiting abortion and those are now constitutional. The supreme court will not stand in their way. Congo. can pass such a law. Outlying abortion in the fifty states, the supreme court, will stand in its way, so that's on abortion, and then the reasoning of this decision. Is so, as I say, muscular it could attack, could reach other rights as well, including the right of marriage, equality which has just recognised by the supreme court a few years ago. I mean this is an opinion that robert bork would have written

this is not an opinion that most justices lived in our lifetimes would have written, and robert born, of course, was rejected for the court because of these views. and Eno Jon Meacham. What is what appears to be jarring from this decision may be a decision the comes first of all, anybody that has ever known John roberts and his work. John Roberts work. Would suggest- and while I have long suggested, that there would never be this abrupt of an ending to of half century constitutional right again, it'd be sad enough. Supported by over seventy percent of americans and and here we are but this is the same supreme court. This is the same federal judiciary there time and time again struck down donald trump, smooth, specious claims, hell the election I see.

to be an independent branch. Of course, one decision does not design change that reality, problem here, though forum I can send again when you are talking about the legitimacy of the court, what measures is the illegitimacy of the court? Some people are going to look at the process through which we nominates alike, to vote for an and send people supreme court and they will they'll see what what happened over the past twenty thirty years, but mainly they'll see what Mitch Mcconnell and the report can set it dead with me, garland its allow, no wait a second. Now now we have a rule and we can support anybody going in the last year. Thousands of arm was last year, of course, and donald trump last few months. Suddenly that rule matter and what I was concerned about. Then and what I said van and what I am concerned about now is is.

The fact that this might makes right approach will be used against republicans we'll be years. The court will be expanded crash when they get in power. At some point where they have majority a large majority. We'll say: well, Republicans dennett, so I can't we and then you you, you're talking again, the further illegitimacy of the court that we have to depend on to uphold our constitution absolutely an illusion, you're making is to Abraham lincoln speech cooper union, whereas he was beginning to run for president that the principle of right makes might. I must upheld and not that might makes right. This is an assertion of raw strength marshalled under that provision,

the constitution that we're not tied to popular the popular will in terms of choosing a present right made. That's why? If you look on the opinion that nails the draft that needs talking about three of these justices were appointed by donald trump, one of one of whom came to power because of the maneuver you mentioned, which was a historical to take. That seat and We cannot ignore that This draft is the fruit of generations long effort by the conservative, legal establishment, conservative legal movement to bear about this day you know it jerry fall well used to tell a story about. He decided that becoming part of politics was important. On the day he read one newspaper,

was the day in nineteen. Seventy three when Lyndon Johnson at died in that news is reported and rovers wade was decided and it took six seven years for an abortion rise to become the center of that movement, but this is a fifty year. Dear struggle and I think america only works If you agree with both the spirit and the letter of the law- and I want to say that again, you have to have a The intellectual and emotional assent agree but with the kinds of the ethos you're talking about. Seventy percent of americans believe this is a cop support this as a constitutional right. It's a D fundamental personal, complicated, charged emotion that goes straight to the definition of life itself arguably no more complicated, charged emotional,

an immensely complicated issue. Then this, which means probably the last place to deal with it, is in a country this divided with a petition. Five four decision as part of a legal body that depends on our A cent to their authority. John, she's kind of made all this up, I'll, deferred, kneel and obviously on that. But judicial review is, is a doctrine ancient erica now, but requires our. believing in the essential good faith of the courts themselves and that the rule of law is in fact fair. he replied. Where you only war war we have nah, just saying it so fascinating you, you, you

you talk about jerry, fall well and talk about what and since nineteen seventy three political charlatans, reduce conservatism down to this one issue that religious charlatans reduce christianity down one, issue there liars there there liard there there there they have no idea what the new testament about when they do that it's just a strain of ignorant christian nationalism, what they ve done. So that's what's happened: do not only our political system for people on the rocky they they reduce conservatism bound to one issue and sadly there have been the charlatans- the christian faith to have done the same thing you obviously haven't read. A single one of the red letters in the gospels, because

You can read the gospels and again this this reduction of american politics, american conservatism, in american christianity, down to the issue of abortion. It's just grow. Ask I've said it before I'll say it again. Another thing really Johns right. many. People on the right that have been working for decades to bring this moment about and, of course, that is their right and that is that has been their dream, but be very clear that goal has been to bring america to this point in spite of america, in spite. love what americans think in spite of Let them over one jordi of the voters, think in spite of what say, so,

strategy, wasn't a let's just get to a point where we can overturn roby wait. It's always been. Let's get to a point where we can overturn roe v way, despite the fact, only one in for americans want that to happen? Should this supreme court completely overturn roby v? This is just the latest. If poles that have gone back a very long time. Seventy one percent say no. Twenty two three percent saying. Yes, oh yes, this has been a concern that this has been a project by many on the right on the legal right. when you look at every one of these Paul's willie and the press it has been too were turned a fifty your president? Despite the fact overwhelming majority of americans still believe in this constitutional right that has been enshrined in the car. Institution for fifty years. This has been the holy grail, as you know. Well, for many conservatives for two jenny.

Patients out two and a half generations to overturn rovers is weighed, and if you look at those numbers of seventy percent that by definite includes republicans. That includes independents. This is not a democratic issue if it's a seventy per cent issue and katty kay, as we start to talk about some of the practical impacts, if, in fact, this is the final decision again, this is a reported first draft thirteen states have trigger laws which the moment this is struck down if it is by the supreme court. Abortion is but outlawed its outlawed outright. But effectively in thirteen states. And if you look at most analysis, it could be twenty four twenty five. Twenty six states that go ahead and outlaw most abortions as well. So that's! What, looks like in june. If this decision is in fact handed down yet

and if you don't talk about the practical implications of this, the practical implications of the increase, the economic divide in america between poor women, who won't be able to afford to travel to estate, potentially white, some distance from where they are living in order to gauge determination to their pregnancy and wealthier women. Who will- and that's always been the wrath, abortion is that really the more you restrict abortion, the more you are attacking poor women who won't the means to find legal, safe, abortion somewhere else, but to the point poles and and neil catch up? Maybe you can answer this? One What are the it? What's the impact on the court and on the country, if the coup, why should go ahead? And overturn ten roby wade when, as Joe has been pointing out its two thirds of the kind Don't want that to happen. We ve been hearing in the last few months you talk about,

Civil war in this country, I find that hard to believe we ve also been talking. Some people have said about category you're saying. Well, you know what the rest of amerika doesn't really represent me anymore. We we vote consistently democratic. We vote consistently in favour of issues like the abortion safe in this country? What gaining from being part of this union? What's the turmoil in the country that would follow a ruling like this will We ve never obviously been in this situation of having a leaked opinion than for the court to watch the reaction in real time to the draft and then take adjustments in the way the supreme court works is that there is an oral argument here. There's an oral argument to the mississippi case in december, and the nine justices voted in the senior most justice in the majority got to assign the opinion here. It looks

That was not the chief justice chief justice roberts because he would have written and kept it for himself. It looks like it was justice thomas who, for many reasons, did by suspected want to write it himself, so he gave it to justice, Alito justice Alito then wrote this strapped opinion and circulated it to the rest of the court, but for five justices. That means that there was a tentative vote of at least five members of the court saying this is going to be the law and in the supreme court. Counting to five is everything. It means that they get to write the opinion. The way they see fit that's the draft that we ve seen from politico, can be achieved. Aged and sometimes drafts do change. But on something as momentous is this it's hard to say that I see that as a realistic possibility? I mean there may be a footnote here. You know align their that changes, but

I don't think more than that and all of these public opponent, opinion polls at katie and Joe are showing where the things the court was well aware of before this is a change in the composition of the supreme court. That's led to this I mean roe. Vs wade was a seven to two decision, with five of the seven justices appointed by run up again presence plan parenthood versus casey and ninety. Ninety two, the linchpin of it, was an opinion written by three republic and appointed justices. Just as Kennedy in suitor saying that the court's credibility depends on maintaining rovers is weighed, and now you have the decision of war or this draft, which basically spent some. All of that let me ask you in your work briefly at an end You may not be comfortable trying to analyze these justices, and I know poor Cavanaugh.

and becoming very obviously with that with the latter. There's really not a great deal of of of information. A lot, not a lot of opinions to go by I had early on from everything I had read. I thought cabin. and roberts. I thought roberts and Cavanaugh were sort of walking in lock staff step more new conservative with a small see approach to constitutional matters, then, Tom is too, of course, everybody's known for four decades, would gladly a race a fifty year, president whole cloth and not think twice about it, are you surprised if Cavanaugh ends up splitting from from roberts here

in a way the chief justice is an institutionalized. He care so much about the credibility of the court. My I can't imagine what he's going through right now, but the most important point is after justice, Ginsburg passed away, justice doesn't matter and that This decision shows as long as cavenaugh votes in, as you say, Joe and split way. It's all that the rent, that's all he needs, and justice kavanaugh at his confirmation hearings testified strongly. That role was settled precedent and the like leading some senators to vote for him, and if this draft opinion is right, it looks like that That was the way he testified. Wasn't accurate,

we'll catch Alan John matron. Thank you both for coming in to talk about this unprecedented breaking news and we'll have much more on this. In just a moment. The reporter who broke the story will be our guest along with former eu, as attorney Barbara MC weighed on what this could mean for other rights recently protected by the supreme court. We also talk about the latest out of ukraine, where pentagon officials say russian forces are making very little progress in the don basque region of eastern europe. Rain adjust still not good. That is areas is not breaking news. The russian army still creed, that's where most of the fighting is focused right now will speak with depends. Department spokesmen, John Kirby, were can just a moment

currently a record? One hundred million people have fled their homes in while every one hears a lot about refugees facing persecution, violence and war in countries such as ukraine, syria and Afghanistan. It's rare to be told about the incredible lives that they can go on to lead once they find safety. U s for Un Hcr, the un refugee agency is committed to helping all refugees make the transition from tragedy to triumph, with the help of Forest owners, their able to provide emergency shelter and lifesaving aid, including food, medicine and clean water, and with this support these families can then go on to build businesses, succeed in school and give back to their new communities. So when you think about refugees, think of the mothers, fathers and children inspiring us all by refusing to give up hope despite animal Annabelle circumstances together, every one can make a difference for refugees around the world. Please can

are joining this lifesaving effort by making a donation at you and refugees, dot, org, slash donation, twenty eight passe our more now on the major story. Politico broke last night. According to a leaked draft opinion, pub last night by political. A majority of the supreme court is prepared to overturn the right. Abortion, the draft opinion, was put it lay authored by justice, annual alito and circulated in February the leak of the night. Eight page document is unprecedented in the court's modern history John, now is the reporter who broke this major story: senior legal affairs reporter at politico Josh, Christine also with us former? U s attorney and MSNBC contributor, Barbara mc quaid with more on what it means, but Josh will start with you

obviously never. This has never happened before I can ask you how how we help did this but tell us more about what is in this opinion and The timeline we're looking ahead of june and July for movement here. Right. Make us aware, probably about two months away from the decision. Typically, the supreme court's most important and most controversial opinions, by the end of june. Occasionally they drag over a little bit in july, and so these next few weeks are really where the rubber The road on this decision, our understanding, is obviously publicly. case was argued. It comes out of mississippi on their fifteen weak abortion ban The underlying issue is much much broader than that. It's the entire federal, situational right to abortion. It was argued back on December first and Opinion emerged as the first draft majority opinion of the court on federal.

Tat. According to note, that's right on the front of the opinion, others other indications that a leaders clerks were at work. after this in january, and so it's been kicking around out there at the court as this sort of main opinion on this particular abortion case now, about two and a half months, clear, whether we ve seen any descends at this point or any visions to this opinion which we would expect, but based on our reporting from a source familiar with the proceedings at the court. I information that both myself and my co author sward obtain. It period has the backing of five concern. justice is that is all five republican appointees on the course accept chief justice, John roberts. You have some innovations it would appear about the wording which, if you go through it, may guides not terribly surprising. The tone of the opinion is very brash anne and probably not consistent with the

John roberts, typically approaches tastes and theirs. Reporting this morning from CNN that justice roberts chief justice drivers will descent in this Josh quick process. Question for you, given the gravity of this news and of this this statement, this opinion that was written, Are you certain that its real because you know. There's been some speculation about it that, because this is such a big deal everyone's and make sure that it is in fact what it is and because a leak like this is so rare, perhaps unprecedented. We just haven't seen anything like it. well I mean you can imagine that we took that into consideration and we took a lot of steps. I'm not going to go into them off to try to verify the authenticity of this document. We became convinced after taking those various steps and doing additional research about the procedures at the court talk. A former clerks and other legal experts familiar with the court that that the forum

the timing and I have to say as much as anything if you go through the opinion There were rather elaborate way in which it seeks to bring all the justices? All the conservative justices other court, with the exception of justice robards on board. it had a clear air of truth, and I have to say most about Experts that I've seen commenting since we released at last night or saying They believe that it is in fact an authentic draft opinion. Now that doesn't mean that x? Two months as the justices deliberate, liberate, father and change some of it. We found a few highbury just to bring up a trivial matter that are definitely going to have to be weeded out, but could change substantially, and we have seen justices in history, including on Roby wade waver on these sorts of issues. sometimes take a more modern, opinion as they come to the final days of decision, Barbara,

aid. So, first of all, what was your reaction to this news and what happens to a woman's right to abortion given this and how, This impact other right. It's down the road My reaction is shock. I think we knew that this. This was coming based on the tone of the arguments in december, but I actually thought that chief justice roberts might be able to put together a coalition that would at least the bleeding here at fifteen weeks, which is what the dobbs case was advocating, for instead they have come for war in clearly removing the right to an apple. And no rape provision no incest, exception, no ifs answer, but there is no right to abortion in amerika. So what I mean it means that in those aids there are these trigger laws. That say and when rovers wade is overturned then

We will immediately make it illegal to obtain an abortion in our state. There's thirteen states with those there another a dozen or so states, including my state of Michigan, that has all the still on the books as a nineteen. Thirty one law in Michigan fanning abortion. became unconstitutional, well it was decided in nineteen. Seventy three, once he's gone. That law is back and so in about half the states in america be illegal for a person to obtain an abortion. What does it mean? Practically? It means that those with the means will pay we traveled to states where it is legal and those with The means will we or to other methods like we saw before nineteen seventy three with backing Abortions week. I was reading that in go in the nineteen sixties. There were thousand emergency room visits per week in chicago based on emergency medical need for botched abortions. That's where we're headed.

Barbarella mate. Let me express ascii were headed inside inside the court itself. This decision, written in February, we of course or in early may, we made, get a final decision release for another month, a month and a half as you know better than than most of us, there are still horse trading going on so well horse, riding back and forth bar bargain, exchanging of drafts, sometimes late into the process. Is it not possible that what we see at the end may be, if rob can figure out how to get Cavanaugh. Or buried, or somebody else to take him nuanced approach than that. these greater respect to the overwhelming majorities opinion on this constitutional right on the fifty year present. Is there the possibility that there may be a morbid

launched nuanced approach to this when we get the final in your released in june you're right show it is possible and that their horse trading does occur. You'll see drafts go back and forth. Some will say, sign onto this opinion, but what I could sign onto is one that is that the given that the dogs case was actually advocating for which is a ban after fish fifteen weeks or later and so We could see that, but what I don't think we're gonna see is please reversal. That says still stands, which was the viability standard, and so I also really begs the question joe hoop, and the sleek, and why and theories you no one is that it's the outraged liberals on the court, the other is that it is Some of the conservatives trying to dull the uproar when this ultimately comes out, but there is also a possibility that it is

buddy, who wants to see this case locked in this decision, because those a caravan legitimacy, like chief justice roberts, will be very uninquiring to want to change their view after it's been out there. public domain, less appears that they are simply caving to public pressure, and so I, That really speaks a lot about. What's going on the internal dynamics of the quarter, where making. This is such an important point by barbara this lake. It could be people on the left. Then I want to get the base activated. Get me talking about it, could also we people on the right who want to exert pressure specially on justice Cavanaugh, He can t bear it, because what John roberts over the past year, or so what he's pretty there are often has been a court. That's been divided in threes, three on the hard right three. On the centre right and centre on the centre left the far left

and so this could be actually a shot across europe if somebody closely connected to Alito It's a lead owes view to rule the day they wake this, document and try to put have an all and county buried in a position where they can't, as as, as we said where they can horse trade with roberts, where they can come up with something that moves in the direction of the fifteen weak ban The same time doesn't tell seventy percent mexicans to go to hell, may that is that the right of the the doesn't matter at all so, who knows, It could be a lead us people putting it out. Be somebody on the left. What another, regardless it'll, be fascinating to see how this shapes politics leading up to the minute terms and shapes the messages of both sides giant in mayor curious about

white house reaction to this president Biden is visiting a javelin making plant in Alabama today, but certainly this will be he'll be asked about. You know the reaction from the white house last night in the wake of the draft report, where you are certainly right, Micah that will change today. The president will be asked about this. I mean certainly there has been some frustration among abortion rights activists with this white house. President doesn't like to use the word abortion when it about only talks about women's health and defending the right to choose the frustration of sun, and this certainly looks like it is going to be an animated issue. Com it's november, even as there had been some surprise that there hadn't been widespread protests among democrats when certain states began to restrict abortion likely. That will change and we saw seeing the supreme court last night protesters immediately gathered. Their barricades were put up outside the building. This is going to be, I see

if again story in the days weeks ahead all the way to november, and he could see it potentially exciting the basin of both sides josh. I wanted to first of all congratulate you again on what was one of the biggest scoops. We can remember in a very long time- and I wanted to get you to talk a little bit more, though about the internal dynamics of the court. just a sort of my or earlier this year talk about these staying in her words about how politics she perceived was creeping in on the core to how it was no longer above the reproach above the politics a day to day the grip, our nation, obviously justice, books, algebra jackson's can take her seat in the months ahead, but how now, in the wake of this leak, are these just is gonna talk and trust each other. that's a good question jobs and thank you need your ride. My feeling is that, once this opinion is out, it becomes very difficult to honouring

now it's almost sort of like observer effect, where, once we again on this situation? Just by looking at it? We have affected it right in and we bought more oxygen into that were. Maybe that is typical. in there, and I think it has been a fact the dynamic I dont think you just said we'll probably accuse each other of having we test but beyond that, I do think it will affect the trust, closed doors at the porch and as you all I've been sort of discussing this morning, it's hard to know exactly how that I play out. Will it cause people to become two or more stiff in their positions and unwilling to change, or will it lead to some kind of an outpouring of reaction that maybe helps, say: chief justice robbers. build more centrist coalition for this case that that's what we're going to see over the next month and a half. I will say that

opinion itself. When you read it, it's very, very strident and the indications that we received that you had a fight just says you were willing to go along with it it seems like a difficult thing to back down from the language, particularly towards the nineteen seventy three for justice harry black men and the other justices? You voted for that sector the two decision not really a close decision. In roe way, now treat treated with a great deal of respect by this lido draft, the languages almost contemptuous towards the logic, the rationale and the thinking behind that nineteen seventy three ruling, and that that's indeed part of. Why is hard to see justice john robbers, the chief justice going along with land which similar to this, because it does not seem a terribly respectful towards those just as good

same I guess I judge. I also find it hard to believe I mean I could I could obviously ellida rights. This way, obviously thomas, is, were willing to right this way in and take it take a more dramatic conservative approach with less emphasis. On precedent it does seem a bit does seem now inconsistent? For cabin on a bee colonies, bear it the sign on to the sort of opinion I so I guess I have Two questions for you here before you go the first one give me for being in politics, but you guys are sure. You're not like sitting on like that we're diaries of my yet I remember nineteen, eighty three when stern, publish they die, freeze and everybody followed it. Thank you first of all,

you're sure of the authenticity of this document. First of all, and then the second question is how You guys know this, isn't just draft of because it sounds very much like Alito, that is just a lead draft, that he sends around, which is again part of the process. Alito may have his draft cabinet for those you dont know Kevin. I, as his draft others, have drafts, they share it back and forth and they try to come to a consensus. So the second pillar, first again the legitimacy of it how sure argue that its knelt down and the second one is how sure you that this isn't just opening draft by Alito try to pull the other conservatives on board well where I mean those are good questions Joe, and we are very confident that it is an authentic draft. Obviously, we can't say what will happen in the future right and how justices may move around

carbonated its opinion, which is labelled as an opinion of the court, is not labelled as like a discussion document, or you know a concurrence then maybe just recently, I couldn't get another justice to sign onto It's our understanding that, just as the leader was signed, this opinion to write it. On behalf of the majority, and that at the moment it appears that it does have the support of of the six conservative justice yourself. We ve looked at it you're welcome. I ask your other guess whether they think appears to be off that egg and the way in which, in particular, joy if you look at it carefully, through the justice this you might well for this, with the exception of juice jobs. Chief justice robbers and a key I used to them in various ways. There are to this opinion that caters to justice, Amy coney barrett there as part of his opinion that cater to justice, clarence, thomas and awake that here,

framed abortion cases in the past and so combined with a lot of other factors, are many which I'm not at liberty to discuss contributed and are indeed Instead, it is, in fact an fantastic dry the opinion of the supreme court that you know of. so the caviar set. the process, isn't over and it could change. Senior legal affairs rapporteur, add politico Josh Gerstein. Thank you very much for your reporting this morning and our thanks to former. U s attorney farmer, Barbara it is well and coming up the first test, I'll trumps influence over this year's report. We can primaries we'll take a look at what it's stake today in ohio plus a snack again efforts to evacuate hundreds of civilians try inside that steel plant in the ukrainian city of Mary, a ball will have.

data on the new attempts to get them to save. Did this morning, we'll be right back currently a record. Nine hundred million people have fled their homes in while every one hears a lot about refugees facing persecution, violence and war in countries such as ukraine, syria and Afghanistan. It's rare to be told about the incredible lives that they can go on to lead once they find safety. U s for you and hc, are the? U N refugee agency is committed to helping all refugees make the transition from tragedy to triumph with the help of

or owners their able to provide emergency shelter and lifesaving aid, including food, medicine and clean water, and with this support, these families can then go on to build businesses, succeed in school and give back to their new communities. So when you think about refugees, think of the mothers, fathers and children inspiring us all by refusing to give up hope despite animal general circumstances. Together, every one can make a difference for refugees around the world. Please can are joining this lifesaving effort by making a donation at you and refugees, dot, org, slash, donation, The look at new york city and make a wide as you now is my favorite day of the year, for a few reasons, of course, It's the day, the willing I were elise from a turkish jail in eighteen. Seventy four, I always remember, made the third nineteen seventy four.

Smile release stay a few very few people. Now everybody had occurred to five three, Seven four is why people say why you have so my chair. Do you know you were when you do with the way you're pretty shamed style in turkey for like we're years. You're like I don't know what I did but a had up there you come back and you like. Ok all I want to hide it. So that's one of the reasons is liberation day. For william me, The second thing is my way, so I ve been back to its symbols happening say. Secondly, as a way of saying- and I can't do it- I can't go there really can't gather this second reason, though, of course willie, and it must be extra special for you This is your birthday, and it's always my favorite that now we can't remember any of these days. Some ought to the arts and those were the lost years for you and make event some rough years together. Get I just want to thank you on this day that you can now, then you can remember it

With your very rich background with me, going back to forty seven after the war talked about your birthday, what are you going to do? The mavericks yeah, tomorrow and listen. We like to present x and every other stuff go, and I want to get us out of that. Turkish prisons is important. I got mine tattooed across my stomach, like tupac with thug life, but it turned out to be a bad decision. It serve melted, little better. Thank you job for a genuine They wishes guy wasn't here yesterday. So I owe you a happy birthday is well me. Can I go back to back a second and may third, so we never forget each other's birth forget it. Nevertheless, we wish now very

special, it's very special, I just say job honey. I got memories from this day that yellow title and it's a sip it Better swears, tax law of all I have to I have to get the tears somehow okay! I know this is very moving. Do you? Would you like to really happy birthday carried out of this winter? Happy birthday? I have a great day get some presents enjoy tomfool family. It raised the terrible memories. I have no idea whether thread was going but happy birthday, one million euro jonathan mere. We have allowed the yankees it routes us in the standings for willie's birth. I think it's time the red sox start playing baseball

this kind willie for small prisoner to want senses best at second of all? The andes now have ten stray wind, so that does seem like a nice elaboration for you, but it offers is happy birthday. My friend thank you again just to watch the country fall in love with this aim. Keys bunch should now that's all it's happening. Those great it's been funded. Watch that thank you for those bizarre where they wishes greatly appreciate outlets turned back to the new arrivals. Primary elections are today with the republic and senate race, getting a great deal of national attention because of donald trump. from trafalgar. Group police yesterday shows a very tight contest: J d banks, who is endorsed by former press. Other night has a slim lead over us, urging Matt, Dolen and Joe. Mandela who once was concerned, Front runner for the nomination, dull and family owns the cleveland guardians, baseball team and he's the only of the three to acknowledge the twenty twenty election was now.

stolen from donald trump, the races widely considered to be a major ass. The trumps influence on this year's mid term elections, the winner likely to face democratic, respond, TIM ryan, this fall former press, seem to hedge his endorsement of advance. Yesterday, after, as I said, calling vance by the wrong name during a rally on sunday in nebraska, one raised as a trump was humiliated. That's what they're, for they waiting for one reason or even doorstep. Duryas weaving does J p reg J D, mandela and use my great J p J d mandela, political report for the daily beast, roger solander, tweed, that at a teller rally with vance yesterday from president trump said. He actually all of the candidates. They also call

it the primary a mess. Let's bring in host executive producer of the circus and showtime executive editor at the recount MSNBC national affairs analyse are good John harmon an associate eta, the watching posted MSNBC political levels, another of our great friends, eugene Robinson good morning to you both John. Let me start with you later. the stakes today in ohio, if you can, poles are as tight as can be effectively a tie their. How does it break tonight, oh man. Will I dunno, I mean you said it was a mess, it's a mess for sure, and and not only in the sense that you've seen donald trump, obviously forgetting who he who he endorsed. But you really got five candidates. There are the republican primary, any of whom could could win a statistical speaking yet are too little really on the move that, which is to say their man, says you pointed out before doll trumps endorsement did given a boost in the polls. He was really not in the race until April fifteen fourteenth when, when trump endorse them, and then he suddenly shot up

but right now, as statistical business, statistical tiber has learned the momentum going up in the methodology you mentioned a second go state. Senator Who is, as you said, also the only one of those five who says that the election twenty twenty was legitimate. He is has only one who's been mildly willing to break with donald trump, but he still says he likes donald trump and is still considers himself support, donald trump and naturally, what's the balance- and I will take more than anything I mean at all. Aye, but these candidates to wonder re another are supporters of trump or tromp ism or both and the only real question may not all of them have have what most people would consider, some minor strikes and a lot of big flaws as candidates, and they have really beaten the hell out of each other over the course of this primary. The thing that's on the ballot tonight is donald trump is that all trumps juice, basically style drums what influence in the party this. The first big test wary the doors candidate, we're gonna, get to see just how powerful tromp is the kingmaker and the only reason that such a test is, of course, Donald trump tells us all the time that he

the kingmaker in the party- and I it's fair to say that if any, they have doesn't when this primary people, not necessarily say trump humiliated, but they will question, whether or not he still has the power within republican primaries that he's had for much of the past for five years. It's kind of a snapshot, isn't a J of the republican party, which is to say it has been a race in ohio to show how deeply and pleasure allegiance to donald trump, how low you can bow to donald trump jade events technically gets the endorsement of, but, as I said last night, it was I will try and say: well I, like all of the candidates hedging, just in case you Jane events loses he doesn't have to declare himself the loser along with them. What will you be watching for tonight, though? You know if you do get three candidates in the in the top pulling in the twenties there, so that real

It creates an opportunity, I think, for JD vance, who was nowhere before trump endorsed nowhere in this race and and who does have momentum. So I would but for me, he's kind of favored tonight. Right now- and I bet I would- I dreamed of saying this a month ago, because, as I said, he was nowhere nowhere in the polls so I'll be watching for that, and if I might, I need to throw in one quick thing about roe v wade, which is the person most responsible for this decision. If and if, indeed, this draft is is correct,

It is our midst. Mcconnell forgot all refused to hold a hearing on merrick garland for nearly a year because it was too close to election. Then then, who writes through Amy coney barrett to the court in a matter of days essentially stole two seats from the supreme court from Democrats, and this is the result. So elections do matter, including elections for the senate, because it matters who the majority leader is in this case Mitch Mcconnell is about to overturn roe v wade, whether it's the complexities climate change, the challenge of racial injustice or the threat to american democracy, get your daily. I have enlightening articles at msnbc daily written perspectives. people. You know and trust many hoss, it joyce bats and doktor computer patel, along with a groan list of experts offering their insights plus fresh, takes,

pays brown and z. Finally, start Europe, with MSNBC daily at msnbc dot com.