In light of Joe Biden's lead in swing state polling, the Morning Joe panel discusses Trump's numbers, battle ground states, and the 2016 election upset.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Good Morning and welcome to more nature. It is Monday July, twenty seventh and with us have MSNBC national affairs unless coma of show times the circus and executive the recount John Harmon House, to them as the politics nation and president of the National Action network, four endow shocked and is with us and all of the Washington Post early morning, newsletter power up, Jackie Alimony is with us. This morning and morning, the number of men, Hence who die from the corona virus is expected to cross a hundred, and fifty thousand is a tragic or by any account a number that likely didn't have to be most say this did not have to happen and for a president who has been wrong repeatedly about the death toll who continues to climb the virus, we'll just disappear, we're at almost two hundred and fifty thousand people he perceived
his perceived mishandling of the deadly pandemic is showing up starkly in polling, including the medical swing states in this country, and fitting Five years after Jean Louis first crossed the admin Pettus Bridge during a peaceful march for voting rights, the late Most men and civil rights icon crossed it. One five time yesterday his casket pulled across the bridge, which was sprinkled with rose paddles to represent the blood spilled there more than that begin this morning with new twenty twenty polling from several key states, continuing to show Joe Biden with lead over President Trump In Arizona Mason is merest. Paul has Biden up fifty percent forty five percent CNN assess our S, Poland, as appoint closer in Arizona, only forty nine to forty five Arizona in
Michigan CBS News. You got Paul, has Biden up six point forty percent to forty two percent, while the CNN assess our ass Paul puts buttons. Again margin at twelve points, the Fox NEWS Paul that we show Join Friday has by its lead in Michigan at nine points. In Ohio. The CBS News you gotta, pull has by and tromp in a statistical tie, and in Florida, the CNN assess our as Paul finds the President trail Joe Biden, trailing Joe Biden in Florida by five points? fifty one percent to forty six. Ciao, yeah, we're gonna, get to numbers that we just get out of North Carolina Gonna be going, therefore, report that race also appearing to break open China, Highland they'll, let Sicily, these numbers, Arizona, Joe Biden, plus five Michigan plus six plus twelve are
plus nine, depending on which fall, you believe, for the past weekend, Ohio was tied, just like we saw taxes continues to be dead. Like Georgia deadlocked Florida of fifty one to forty six. I am noticing also the Biden reaching the fifty percent threshold, something that politicians and retired politicians always look at it's one thing to be had forty three to thirty, eight, with a lot of undecided here, Biden Cross, the threshold of fifty percent in several of these swing stayed Paul's, one sure take away hey good morning, Joe while you know, I think we ve got a picture here that continues the continuity that we seen really for now, the past two months, which, as you know there is not a battle state of the six core battleground states. There is not one again as always reminding people Biden campaign in the trunk campaign, agree Michigan, Wisconsin Pennsylvania, nor
you're a lot of Florida, Arizona. Those are the core sex there's, not one of them. The Donald Trump, though but we're down one about one of all, twenty. Sixteen. Behind it all them now, there's not the trunk campaign, who would do a privately disagree with that and there's no one on the bottom campaign, who doesn't look at that? were. These. Are the six states, If we win these six states working when the presidency and these these numbers suggest that, as Joe Biden has been over, the last two months has been in a commanding position, some of these Holes are tightening and I don't think anybody. Some people saw these Florida poles last week that by not by twelve or thirteen Florida, there's no again, nobody on either side things, shoebox, gonna, win Florida by twelve or thirteen point. It's not gonna happen, but the fact, as you point a second ago, thereby does now. Fifty in that state in this one pull the we see here, the fact Lucy Bide, never fifty Michigan and Joe. You can accept people why that matters, the race is gonna tightened right and in an you assume that a fair amount of the of the gap between Trump and Biden. Is it
The Republicans you might in attaining race go home to Donald Trump, but Joe Biden Overview doesn't matter because over fifty year went in that state, and so We are encouraging number, should abiding campaign across the board and their consists. The pattern, as I said that we see now for the past couple of months, they are a zone as a state that diatribe has never been a headed in all twenty twenty continues to be the case. Instead, the and any right, you see a full Paul by Joe Biden ahead by twice points in the state of Florida I just find it hard to believe that, even though that may be what people are telling pulsars in July, that our voting I'd be so I'd be surprised, make it followed. These races don't tighten up significant toward the end. But
Arizona is a great example of state where Biden has stubbornly maintain delete four points. Five point six point eight points three. It reminds me an awful of Ohio in two thousand and twelve or Brok Obama consistently and steadily stayed I had of Rami three points. Four points, five points throughout the tire it through the entire re. So again that fifty percent, just a pole, Yeah we're only an we're only in July by today's paper ladders the hundred days, but when people start Canada's start hitting that two percent threshold- and you also see Joe turbines favourable so far different than hilary- four years ago for supper this. This is a little more baked in even what we for years go doesn't mean it's not going to tighten up. Does it mean that Joe Biden, necessarily going to win. It just means that is
the climb for the present steam much higher. Look at this, the latest NBC News, merest, pull out of North Carolina shows Joe in seven points ahead of President Tromp, fifty one to forty four percent. It comes as travels to the state today to visit a facility working Day, create a corona virus vaccine less be, whereas a mask. Let's bring in National political rapporteur for NBC News, Josh Letterman from Russia, North Carolina Josh. What can we expect from the president in his trip today, especially with the poles and states surrounding him? Now, not in here direction here, that's right, the president heading here today to visit a factory where there actually starting to wrap up production of the corona by vaccine that the federal government has been investing in about President Trump card here as his sweet state, was continue TIM out with his
rouble rating here and now down eleven points from what it was when NBC Cold, just back in March. That seeming to brings political headwinds as well for Republicans here in this state, as the state heads that really critical centre rates. One of the biggest pick up opportunities for Democrats here in North Carolina senator tell us now down nine points to his democratic challenger. According to that and b pool. Another thing coming out of this poor Mika, a measure of political vindication for North Carolina Democrats and they say its democratic governor wary Cooper and that decision to stand up to the president on home in the convention. Here North Carolina Two tuna one margin, North Carolina voters say it was the right decision to prioritize health concerns over the president's desire to hold the convention.
Now, of course, even his relocated invention in Florida having to be scrapped is run a virus cases. Surgeon that state, the other big, take away from our new pull this morning. Mika. If you look at the three biggest issues in this election, corona virus, the economy and handling of race relations of Vice President Biden continues to do far better than his competitor President Trump I was the corona virus and to race relations, but the president's still enjoy a sizeable advantage over Joe Biden when it Mister Hale in the economy and we're seeing that mirrored not only here Carolina, but in others swing states as well as some of the national courts that we're seeing its an indication of why the president is so intent on focusing on the economic recovery.
His messaging and another indication that how voters feel about the economy when it comes to October and November, is going to be so critical to determining the outcome of this selection, particularly as more and more states have to roll back. Some of their reopening plans our own economies in light of this, in corona virus cases. Meagre are, let him in North Carolina. Thank you so much then, let's go North Carolina its state from the old confederacy that but reform Republicans. I myself Republicans always size state that was in the bag until Brown Obama's victory there in two thousand eight, which was a real shock for a lot of Republicans but of worse than the research trying on there. For some time it been a state, has been more in flux tell us, is approval, writings and been, and the low varies most of the time he's down five percentage points in this b C, pull down more and other Paul's, but
How you make of that that North Carolina number that has Biden by seven what's going on there. Well, I think she'll you see the same year. This is even think about all these states across that. That's that southern the sunbelt swab Right North Carolina, Georgia, Florida Texas, Arizona, these are all set. It's where the poles are our favorite Biden either or their places where The head or where thereby you shouldn't be even close, but now is close and I think most reflects the central fact right now is that China, North Korea, has been hit hard by corona virus stuff Trump is suffering because of that, and then there's the confusion, the situation around the convention, and there are a lot of people in North Carolina Carolina Business establishment in other places. There were unhappy with the way the President in Hopkins treated North Carolina around the convention. There
their decision last week to stop the convention and Jacksonville was, of course, the right thing to do on a number of gradually politically and public health lies, but you can't help but think there's a lot of we'll North Carolina wondering why you're Donald Trump wasn't gonna convention in the end, why they abandon North Carolina and the way they did and and were in we're so dismissive of the state in the process, but I think, on the going again. The second state were consistently it's a battleground state. It's gonna get fought, it's gonna, get tighter, there's! No question your it's. You know it's a state that drug one not comfortably, but one clearly back and in twenty in twenty sixteen, but the signs or have been increasingly those postman widening and environs favorite. It's a state where were the Biden team is felt more comfortable of late than they ever expected to feel at this stage of the race. All right, I was being told by Alex Cunningham Lee
is nine point. Several tell us what I thought I saw on the graphic forty eight to forty three, the graphic ok, so far forty three was a march, and sometimes you know in July We D show March Pulse, so it is now it's just again. I want to make sure it's a nine point. Eight Alex Thank you for when ok, thanks so much and so Jonathan Mayor, we asked a question every week, the President week losing in every battleground state other than Ohio, hi hi tied, making matters worse, Texas over the past, several months has become a battleground state, Georgia has become a battleground, stayed the White House networks. Active Arizona six months ago could become a ground state. Instead, they were talking about winning new MAX, ECHO and Minnesota, which in last week they were getting rounded by death, the so here we are
towards the end of July, early voting beginning were five ex away, maybe in some places for early voting white, What's the White House thinking? What's the trunk campaign thinking Did they turn this around I'll? Show you I've been beating the drum on the early voting for a while now and in those are close to president know, that's an issue to that. There are going to be at work early voting in just five or six weeks and they're running out of time. Before that to change the momentum and a narrative of this race, as you say, they're playing defence of our place didn't expect. The Texas presents gonna go there later this week on Wednesday, four political events and fund raising in economic development. He, of course, is travelling in North Carolina today. They didn't anticipate too have to place hearts are going to in Georgia and Ohio, and they know their down
cross. The map now, on Friday, bill step in the president's campaign, manager, debriefing, private breeding reporters and went through some of these poles. There's acknowledgement that the president is ease down, but there's at the margins are ones that can overcome they, as they are wont to do. They cast a lot of doubt Thank you to the under samples republicans. They also think that there are a number of people who are going to be the president in November, who simply art being picked up on these policies are either that's not acknowledging that of overtime, trumpet Nepal or simply not once who are usually on the screens ulcers, I will say in twenty sixteen. There were some element of true too that we kept hearing the present say there was this silent majority, these hidden voters there, kept us into that idea. But at these rallies and covered more than a hundred of them. That year, there were lots of people who were in the building to see the president who hadn food tell me and other reporters. Ireland voted in four eight. Sixteen twenty years, I've never talk to bolster my life, I'm gonna vote for this guy, but that's a risky back
to expect their so many more of those people. Now who will come out this time, which is why There is growing alarm about the lack of time. And the need for frankly what we could call October surprise and putting a lot of eggs in the basket Joe. A vaccine why the President's what in North Carolina today, we expect to see a lot of announcements hype about each incremental step in the development for of vaccine, which of course, would be great for everyone, but the president believes that its key now tis political future that it they can say before November it they can say that have actually in developed or is even clubs even if it can be distributed, but if they can give the idea of hope, they think back there powerful it change, Laden again changed in the momentum which right now is all working against them So whenever now, Arizona, Abiden, plus five Michigan, plus six plus nine plus twelve, depending on the part of a wild tied Florida plus five North Carolina plus
and a lot of those states it will be Hispanics and it will be blackmail, cancer determine whether Donald Trump gets re elected or not. Of course, for years ago, black turn out at a twenty year low Lothar Spandex in Florida didn't line up and vote the way. That democratic, send the Clinton campaign expected them to vote, how things looking in twenty twenty four, the buying I'm paying are you concerned about minority ranged. Do you think their reaching out to black voters and energizing black voters the way they need our are their concerns. About his outreach among hispanic voters? I saw my me Harold pull my me Harold article suggesting thereat Ray they hispanic voters in the state of Florida, It is good as they would like what are you hearing on the ground
hearing underground it's better than sixteen, but it still has a distance to go their needs. Be more direct outreach in their name to be more emphasis on policies both in the black and blue communities. I d be article refer to. I read is well talks, in Florida, particularly here's a problem latino voters in turn. Some on the ground, organizing an outreach now given the pan it becomes even more challenging, but you need to put f over the challenge. Clearly in the black community. If you add wild region. Sixteen I think that she again as well as Pennsylvania, probably was, and could have been a different story. What hope does not happen is that the bag campaign becomes intoxicated Would the poles which are at this point much better than they were
days out for Clinton and Trot, and in fact they were tied in some states, only one point difference and others a hundred days out is much. For now, but if they enticed by two poles. I think it would be to the detriment, the other thing. Let's not forget there could be a very enthusiastic a reaction or be free. Some reaction is He chooses as a running mate and where not then running made energizes in the black and brown, you gonna be whether they be black. Not I've said I'd like to see it I would, but I think so, this kid even energize running may could be something that either accelerates or defrayed swear by MS in the black eyebrows communities in terms it turned out Let me ask you, on the other side, the Trump campaigners for the past three three and a half years that there are going to get fifteen percent. Twenty percent of
like vote. Certainly, I've heard that from several people inside the tent campaign I know Jonathan has is well over the best for years. Is there any chance? so the trunk campaigning, given the events of the last six months, given is racially sensed rhetoric and given the sort of things it Tom, and is has been saying, given the sort of things it Devon, new As the saying Democratic Party hates white people is that chance than Donald Trump could outperform pass Republicans in the black community are they? download from you, and I have no Joe throughout the years, and he won't. To be aware, and I think he will win. He will be the republic and the guests least amount of votes for president in history, United States. I think he will be the rock bottom vote among blacks in reply Look at Lahti. History, no
as, in my view, and I'm not talking just from my position but in people I talk to on the ground in the churches, just people stab in the industry all The country has travelled, no one has, in my opinion, it has got em as in in just such emotion and passion there boy are willing to go out and vote in and do what they have to do to vote against, and I think the biggest weapon for Joe Biden in turn of energizing. Black turnout in brown. Turnout is Donald Trump P work hard at it, and he earn would he gets election day Yes, such lay with these rising grown a virus numbers, Jackie Ella Manner Elementary. I want to find out, what's going on on Capital Hill, in terms of getting things accomplished: corona virus bill to try and help Americans through this yeah. Look me
We are just days away from enhance unemployment insurance expire in for twenty million Americans exponent she lifeline throughout this pandemic. You know, as over a hundred and forty thousand people have died and countless. Had lost their jobs and these job losses are becoming increasingly permanent and right now the key sticking point a scale if the eye the enhanced insurance and finding new Republicans maintain that the six hundred dollars a month that expert ended, pray in the previous stimulus package has distanced. Device people to go back to work? Demographic maintaining that that's not the case and the while extend six hundred dollars a week through January twenty twenty one, numerous economists who predicted that if you take away this six hundred dollars, we become actually going to shrink by two percent, cause merely account more job losses
is also really important to point out here, though, that there's injured parties tensions over this number as Well Treasury secretary, Stephen Minutiae, any end chief of staff mark meadows urged Publicans and Democrats to take a piecemeal approach and try to just pass through package on an uninhabited and enhanced unemployment benefits this week, but neither how Speaker Nancy Glossy nor majority leader the colonel, had indicated that they have any interest in a piecemeal approach under a number of other sticking points as well, including liability insurance Democrats have been against liability insurance. Since the beginning of this you know this is Mcconnell, has pushed for protections, lawsuit protection so that businesses and preparations had pursued in the case of their workers come down with corona buyers, another real
gee important provision that is being discussed at isn't just a matter of the economy, but is a matter of life and death as the cases surge throughout the country is at twenty five of Rio billion dollars and additional funding for covered nineteen testing, which Republicans haven't indicated that they have any interest in right now. So Jackie, you also have, of course, over the weekend, Stephen each in going out with a morgue meadows and talking How are we having the quote that many P come on, he said we're not going to use tax dollars to pay people there stay at home and also the talk of getting rid of the six hundred dollar benefit other Saki. Reducing it to two. Dollars, and per week and You said the impact of that will have on the economy, the impact that will happen
unemployment most it. I must agree with me fairly devastating, even if they go down to two hundred summer r r that will cost nearly one million jobs by fears So what is it equally, that that Republicans are going to take this ouch it's gonna, be seen harsh by most, by by most, voters said that they're just gonna go. If the benefits are reducing the two hundred dollars. A week You make a really good point here in a bipartisan talks haven't even begun, because the White House and in the Senate GNP haven't come up with a file planet next, because, as you just pointed out, there are a lot of vulnerable Republicans, and we just saw the whole thing is you guys ran through from is a drag on most of these republicans who are up for reelection. They believe that
these these benefits and the enhanced unemployment insurance for millions of Americans is going to further hurt their chances in the middle of a pandemic when people are already struggling, I'm. So that's a point of contention within the party you have, people Stephen more who are advising the White House not to do this even more said repeatedly that he believes Trumbull lose the election if he continues with these and these benefits by you have no more and work. Voices coming out in saying their necessary right now, if Republicans water, We maintain that a majority wash impose Jackie alimony. Thank you very, very much and still I had a morning Joe floor. Has now reporting. More corona spiral cases than the state of New York, which was once the Ep
center of the pandemic. We're gonna bring in mourning Joe medical correspondent, Doktor Dave Campbell, plus the sentence top demo chuck shimmer will be. Our guest will talk to him about the violence. We ve seen nationwide as President Trump steps up federal on force meant in cities. That not asked for it here- morning, Joe we'll be right back. The original unemployment benefit actually paid people to stay home and Actually, a lot of people got more money. Staying at all men, they were would going to work, and so the press has been very clear: our republic incinerators and very clear we're not going to stand that provision. I'm at home all the time right now and whether you're working from home are working on your fitness. You want what your listening to to be what your listing to not what you're downstairs neighbour is listening to Stephen
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equally high? That's up by ninety percent from the previous week? Meanwhile, Florida, has become the global at the centre of the corona virus, have to confirm it more cases than New York state budgets. We has spirit of ran around that I just John Heilemann. What the heck! This is an example where we talk about campaigns talk about elections and at a time you you, you watch cable news throughout the day and it seems like a sport. Events I remember driving over to miss had been Louisiana for Katrina and my then chief of staff, David efforts. As you know, we we sit there and we took off people ideologically ya, know whether there life and whether there Providence and pro that pro gone anti this anti? That leaves a very conservative guy, he said, but we just
never get around to what type of leader will they be in a crisis. Now done that in Florida, a good bit because we get three or four hurricane sometimes every and we ve seen what leadership means, but about what we ve seen out of Florida over the past six months. You have run the sad as who had that extraordinary press conference with my Hence basically said I wish that was his mission accomplished moment worker Rubio actually at the time The media was trying to warn Floridians about the chronic, I was saying that its like the media's cheering for people to die? That's that's something along those lines. Just abysmal leadership, from the status and and and others, and now Florida,
can't believe. I'm saying this Florida is the global epicenter. Of the worst pandemic in essentially, what is that about leadership, real leadership and the impact it life and death impact that its have. Especially on Florida? Seniors right now want me to do Joe. I think these in these cases, when there is a crisis, when there's a life and death crisis, the quality of leaders, matters enormously, and I think it's a date expire. It's a lot about the politics of this moment that that voters across the spectrum are looking at that. The handle of kroner virus at the national level and in their individual states, as the Me in prison by which they look at This'Ll? At this forthcoming election and- and you know the scientists, I got to say- we are not geniuses here right, but we we're not up, but when you saw him give that press conference,
king the media, saying that we all were wrong and foolish say that that that New York for it, I was gonna, look like New York. They it's been weeks now and we have basically what I mean it was the case, so. As you said, mission accomplished moment, and at the time you want you mean, you said boy, man, you're, countless and chickens before their hats, this dangerous dangerous thing to do and when you think You are playing a winning hand in politics. The best thing to do is to be humble and be graceful and not to boasting about your success, if not stout, to start trashing the press If you're gonna win rice game in the long run, that's the best posture the videos out there and I think it's bad, as the leadership has been that video, that will live to hot Rhonda Santa's, all, till the next time we have to run for election, we're just just like I'll drop, saying in January. At the same time, Biden was saying: yes, listen to the doctors.
Some of the scientists were not ready for this pandemic. Donald I'm saying it's just one person from are they tend to go away. The next month's Angus fifteen people sentenced be down to zero and you can go through a runaway MIKE What about him saying it's gonna go away in April when things get warm, and here you got any money I want to tell you get a task to everybody. Wants to test. Can get at tat, doesn't want tat, try saying that to the people in Florida right now, who can't get the test tracing that two people across the country who are having to wait for seven ten days, sometimes a lot of you having awaited by that time. The test really does matter In the very least you make a is John I'm and said that speaking for John and myself were not the smartest. In the world. Let me- and I think everybody knows I'm just dumb country lawyer, but you know what From the beginning it ass this I sent you listened to the doctors and I remember when the status was going out. The governor was going out
when saying we wine and when people are saying where does to scientists and where does the governor of Georgia go for their apologies? So we who gets apologies who declares victory in the second reading of a nine and engagement. Why did I say that? Why did I talk about how we are in the second and the third? The fourth any? Is it because I have greater right now now, but we re says, started doctors. We listened to epidemics, Legists, who predicted this was coming. Who said. Where the second of ending of a night and again, maybe now we're in the fourth or fifth ending, but my God These governors, who all they had to listen to doctors, listen to scientists. Former Davy allergist and instead they listened to a former Reality, tv house, a hundred thousand two hundred and fifty thousand
Americans are dead sea. Yours in Florida in Arizona are scared for good reason, state of Florida. My home state it's the centre. It is that the centre We are of a pandemic right now, the global global hot spot of the pandemic because of leadership, foreigners, announcers, stand out globally, and so too do California, which will get too in just a moment Florida. For nearly four hundred and fifteen thousand cases. And has seen a record daily corona virus death death camp based on a seven day, moving average of so that's pretty bad that's along with taxes in California, Florida actually tell if you can believe this, while stands out in the world in terms of it numbers. It is second
less to view s states with the highest number of total cases, since that started the pandemic. All standing out. Globally is California, in the country in the world. With more than four hundred and forty four thousand cases New York has now third remember New York joining us now morning, Joe chief medical correspondent, Doktor Dave, Campbell David's, greater we back on the shows? How much to ask you I'm we vote. It's been concerned about this, but places like New York in Boston and, in fact, Massachusetts gradual. Many students early to deal with a health care workers shortage. What is something hotspot states do? I would ve figured that there is a shortage of healthcare workers. Once again it make it really city by city. So you haven't Miami, which is the at the centre of the Happy Centre For us, the world you up here
Stan you about erosion of other cities, where there are surges that allow with the increasing number of pause cases a few weeks later people who are sick and then, a few weeks later you see people getting in the hospital. Once you, patients in the hospital or the emergency department, or the I see you you a lot of support personnel you're typical critical care. Patient, that's any ice. You it's one nurse per patient. Needs nursing assistance in these respiratory therapists to manage lines and oxygen and infusions is what the Susan nurses, assistance are managing. There are enough of those patients p to be covering those patients in some of the heart cities, and a lot of the cities are asking for help from the we'll government from agencies that supply
traveling type, nurses and nurses, assistance and even those companies are sure, because the health CARE percent work for the companies that travel. Some of those are, of course, sick. Some of those are in quarantine because I ve been, suppose to patients that were sick with covered and maybe didn't have four p. P on when they had the exposure and they had to go home and wait for a couple weeks, so its throat the country. Certainly California, Texas, in Miami in Florida struggling divined enough personnel. They can can find the rooms they can convert entire words from surgical words to covered words, but they need to fight painful the healthcare workers to help make it so California and Florida top the list California has the most, overall cases and I spent a little more rolling than Florida. We ve seen
July, though Florida set the record for the daily young daily new cases day in and day out, It seemed especially sorting been a week or two ago, white do Florida official what our Florida officials are doing to slow down that rate of infection, and why do Florida? patients need to do Tis slow down that rate of infection to protect our senior citizens to protect each other and even where were the underlying conditions way. As as a few, my children have to protect others across the state. This is just a disease, obviously that a serious impact on senior citizens. First, the officials and need to recognize what we see on the ground at home, at hospitals and out in the community,
There are lots and lots of people that are not adhering to social distancing face mask where and for about handwashing so in the officials we'll see what we are seeing they then recognise that just saying to their people to wear a mass, or if you want to wear a mask where it or or putting into place certain rules and regulations, counting with schools, opening these for the need to look at the reality and see that large Swathes of the population are not adhering. Common sense dictates that will slow down. This spread, therefore, put they need put into place increasing regulations, whether that means shutting things back down progressively or in a large way. Shutting down large parts of the economy, in schools and businesses.
Bars and tattoo parlors, the they they clearly our seeing what we are all seeing on the ground, everyday across four Certainly here and South Florida job right doktor Dave Camel. Thank you very very much. Good to have you and still I had with tensions ratcheting up between the? U S and China Secretary of State from peo gave a speech last week that Richard Howitt says not only misrepresented history but address a policy for the most Orton relationship of this era that is neither viable nor coherent, Richard joins us next. Some morning, chow. Warning us now, the president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book, the world a brief, introduction
your house and are actually want to dive right in. You took issue with a few things that the Secretary of State had to say: listen. Do you have a big speech at the next library late last week? What he did I thought was misrepresent the pass. You pulled engagement with China that policy introduced by Richard Nixon in Henry Kissinger, essentially of failure. Last I checked them, but we the the sino soviet split and we won the cold war and then going essentially centrally, he seemed not so much the call for policy change and planet right up to the age of calling for regime change, there was Writing similarities between how we describe policy towards China policy border rot, and I just don't think we have the ability, to bring about regime page and China. Meanwhile turned to power phase, you're good friend, Donald Rumsfeld. We to negotiate, not with the government we wished to existed, but with the government that that does exist.
We need to push China to change its ways to some extent at home in terms of human rights, Hong Kong, in terms of what its doing today and in the region. On the other hand, we also have to work closely with our allies rather than bashing them or ignoring them? Put up a common front against China and these things we need to do it here at home to better compete with China. That would be a serious policy. Well, and also upon peo talking about demise, Chrissy talking about freedom talking about Several things that right now, Cross the world. Many our closest allies believe the United States is actively work against itself. Donald Trump is actively working against its I'll, say: look it what's happening in Portland it's happening in Seattle. Those are huge pro You're, just like they write down if you're gonna talk the talk, you ve got a water
those people who consider themselves are enemies exactly right, though, if you're gonna talk the talk, you ve got to walk the walk and an administration that is targeted, the media, that's parted, and judges now is sending these federal troops to wipe out the scent than American Citys very hard. With paper on China in Hong what they're doing the weders all the things we should be, Sizing does related point, if we were serious about human rights and democracy around the world. Where is this admission duration on boot and in Russia. Where is it Irwin and Turkey, we could just go home charging around the world about North Korea and instead there certainly our data with you. You don't have to be a cynic this day. This is not about democracy, human rights policy, this this simply opportunism. Well, and you look at why Donald Trump has done The past three years fierce apologizing for Vladimir Putin taking
Vladimir Putin, sighed over the: U S and communities basically accept What he's doing in Ukraine, what he's doing in Crimea Jonathan or mere according John Bolton, actually giving the go ahead for the building of the concentration camp, saying that that that that was fine with him in China, you look dirty deals that Poland was afraid, He was doing with urgent one in Turkey. This is a president. Past three and half years with a full support of the Secretary of State has acted TIM joyously of his democratic allies in the west, and cosy up to one Terry and regime after another. To present from day. One has indeed cosy up too strong men across the globe and strained our traditional alliance, see. I was there with him in Brussels when he almost blew up NATO and all and threatened to pull
I'd say it's out. I've seen the war that the trade wars he has embarked with the European Union there are they with China of Course, has been, has been so scatter shot where so much of his campaign and twenty fifteen and twenty six things not being tough on China, but once he took off ass. He was flattered with remarkable state. Visiting fishing and that first, his one of his first foreign trip to Asia, YO hee hee to be loud by by China and changed his tone? He was so keen to get this trade deal, which he thought would be politically beneficial to him We know that he would not call out human rights abuses for trade, yet carried out by bye, bye China. We know that no better example than earlier this year when he was trying to find the second phase of this trade deal, which he thought would be a big part of his action campaign that, and to be slow to call out asian paying in China for their efforts during the course of our says it was starting to burst to life overseas,
he didn't push for american scientists. American medical experts to be able to get on the ground there and in that cost United States precious precious time, Richard That's you just on that idea with relationships, so strained right down Beijing and Washington Pandemic is obviously still going. There's a race for a vaccine, there's a race for treatments right now. Is it possible that the cold war, the seemingly we're on the verge of with China, is going to be. We work against the development of this development and distribution of vaccine both united by the Americans and the chinese short answers. Down at the neither China nor the United States, has joined this fledgling international effort to us that is essentially pledged to make available AY vaccine that emerges the people around the world each one seems to be approaching a vaccine as as a form of foreign policy,
very narrow sense, so you got that continuing competition, letting us no, sir. I think things between the United States and China as well as they are get words very quickly. I can imagine there are being an incident in the shower China say I can imagine I did states banning the entry ninety million or so members of the Chinese Communist Party, I can imagine This administration, reopening the Taiwan issue, which would be really existential question for China to actually think this. Is the most dangerous area than you have. Finally, relations for four for half a century and we're not talking about just any really. This is the single most important, even potentially, defining a relationship of this period of history. So much will follow from what happens between these two great powers and right now, everything I believe is simple. And John John Harmon one of Donald Trump problems in this
Pain is everywhere that he wants to go to attack Joe Biden if it's on saying something, coherent on camera. Of course, Situation is worse for Donald Trump. Nowhere is that more true, I believe been in his relationship with China. Jonathan all a mere reminded me of Donald Trump, on January, twenty. Fourth congratulating president: she fortune this transparency on the corona when his own administration was telling him they weren't. Cooperating in this quote I was just looking up after hearing Jonathan from spring Two thousand eighteen, listen to this quote. This was, as President the consolidated power became leader for life, became the most powerful chinese leader. Chairman MAO and Donald Trump said this at a more along speech to Republican Downers. He's now pay for life. President for life he's great and
look, he was able to do that. I think it's great maybe we'll have to give that a shot someday, Donald Trump, congratulating press energy. For consolidating power becoming autocrat for life in China, and saying that one day, maybe we try that here he's had its business gets a frantic. In Japan. China, because there is Now you can. You can find quote after quote of Donald Trump, praising present she for Mass power, yes, executive. When I think you know it's been one of the great skits skits of Frederick from issues throughout the entirety of his administration job and pointed out that that get
top on China was that it was an important part of trumps appeal to whitewash class voters, twenty sixteen. It was a magician force they abandon when ban and was central to trumps political vision, and brought a ban and brought a kind of China harshness into the White House, wanted it to be central to trumps politics and trouble for reasons you just laid out, partly because he saw the economic advantages of making trade deals with China, partly because he was actually flattered by the way the Chinese treated them and partly because, like with every other autocrat the world, he looked on somewhat enviously at the position. The jihad and couldn't help himself from saying things like the quote that you just read: they now find themselves this position where pacing Joe Biden there is, a strong China HAWK contingent on the politics. Anna policy inside, I would say one of the ways that we think about palm pale is don't think about. My palm peo is strictly a sector of state. Just like pop Hale is up
neutral presidential, aspirant someone who wants to run for president or not hawkish China pot platform when heat when it is turned off. And who right now is a political instrument of the president and those inside the administration who think as they look around issues on which they can they can try to beat up. Joe Biden This issue, the China issue, is one that the China Hawks trying to pull into the Centre of Donald Trump campaign, but you correctly point out how difficult that is. Cause as with so many other things theirs just one tweet for that there's a lot of tweets for that. A lot of quotes that make Donald Trump are really imperfect: messenger for a hawkish China up posture in this campaign and what are you will try to be able to beat up Joe Biden over his position on China? John, how many jobs and Le Maire and Richard Hoss. Thank you all very much for being on this morning and still I had from coal, the coast, there's been escalating violence between protesters, but local and federal police and
then trumpets seizing on the images of autumn rest, we'll get reverend take on that along with former New York City police. Commissioner, they'll Brandon Our guest mooring jobless back. In a moment, everyone is Willie Geist thanks for listening now. I want you to talk to us here at MSNBC, we'd like to know more about you and the topics you'd be interested in hearing about as we look to launch new podcast text, podcast two hundred and sixty six eight hundred and sixty six and will text you a link to a short survey again text. The word podcast to sixty six thousand eight hundred and sixty six standard text. Messaging rates apply your input matters and we're looking forward to hearing from you.
Transcript generated on 2020-07-27.