Washington Post journalist and author of the new book 'Rage,' Bob Woodward joins Morning Joe for an in-depth discussion on his reporting.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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moment of talking to somebody going through this work fast. She or somebody who kind of stay pivot in your mind, because its clear just from what's and on public record that you went through a pit this too, oh, my God, the gravity is almost, explicable unexplainable. Well, I got really agree on his treasure. I want you, Taiwan, a cue, we always played down. I still like playing it down, Sir, because I don't want to create a panic.
Here people I don't want to make people panic and you're not going to go out and say: oh, this is going to me. This is death death, death, author January February, you, you are you're downplaying by your own admission. The severity of the crisis city you want to panic, may not downplay. Let me just mention question for a lot downplaying. I wouldn't listen. I don't want to drive our nation into a panic among cheerleader for this nation, I'm the one that closed up. Our country, I close it up long before any of the experts, will it I should. I didn't downplay. I actually in many ways I uploaded in terms of action it was very strong. I apply that's fascinating bob, and you know gradual, nations on the boat first of all, an extraordinary link hearing, but by the present, they talk about a herd, immunity, you're hurting that bouncing and forth between strategies and I'm just here.
Is how that lines up with all your conversations with the man who get out the opening pages of the art of the deal he admitted back in the eighties. I never plan for anything. I don't plan I just show up the office, make phone calls and see. What going to happen is that the approach to die Tromp still seem to be taking through this once in a sense, repair endemic. What is really shocking to me in, and I think shocking to people who looked at this is that he knew woods airborne It was going to be a serious situation in January the key to understanding this for me was. Let me too You too they had seen of January. Twenty, eight than the oval office when his national security
Adviser Robert O Brien says the virus will be the biggest threat. The biggest national security threat you will face is president and then the deputy mayor pot and your stepped in, and provided specifics, he'd been a Wall Street Journal Rapporteur in China seven years and he knew the Chinese lied about things like this, and he had contacts who told in this is going to be like the nineteen eighteen spanish flu pandemic and they killed what six hundred and seventy five thousand people in this country, the poor the new this in January, and I did not learn about this meeting, which is that the opening of my book, I think it's
the most historic moments in the oval office, where a crisis is laid out and the president's doesn't level with the american people and its absolutely tragic its tragic for Donald Trump for the country for the hundred. Ninety thousand. Plus people who have died if he'd been honest and shared the truth, then some form we would be in a completely for position. Now it is a monumental catastrophic leadership failure. Let me ask you along those lines, and I want to get the mat pod- ensure for a man in a minute, because he actually issue. Does you described in the book okey, actually like passenger flights sit down here. It shine a hawk and so Donald?
I was getting this news not just from his fourth or fifth national security vice and from an aid that he trusted whose mistakes he trusted, so he Well by MS curious, you talking being one of the most historic moment in in the White House in history I'm curious, whether you agree with your former riding partner Carl burn state that these tanks, tromp tapes, will be remembered historically as more significant than even the next and tax. Well, it's hard to compare. Them. I trust Carl wisdom in this HE e always his forward, leaning back when we we're doing the Nixon reporting he saw where This was going a year before. Quite frankly, I did so in a word
we're gonna, see about this, but the one of the first things well, when I started talking to from now this is December fifth, last year I went into the oval office and plant my tape recorder. In fact, I have that tape recorder, Olympus Special I planted down on the rest desk and said this is all on the record. I'm gonna recorded I'm one of in doubt what your policy, have been this was before the virus and we went through north
Rio. We went through all kinds of for nine hours and it is a look into his mind and one one of the things you viewed discover things in. It surprised me that the microphone- I is not just getting words, but it is a microscope in fact, when you hear the inflections the anxiety when you hear the the anger when you hear the denial and does so there, something in those tapes which I I have in in the book us Probably almost twenty percent of the book is Trump talking about the Van who is talking about the economy? Talking about race release. And you can see and its extra
you're. Not you knew this when you knew Trump years ago that he will subject himself what kind of interrogation. So I was able to do that for ten months and you you can not just see it, but you can hear what you can hear this, when I say it's a microscope: it's a magnifying glass also, so you really observe the true trump. I believe. Let me ask you about and then passed around the table, but may say that, obviously, for for reasons that we all their stand. So the focus has been on Donald lying about how dead this pandemic wise to the american people and his supporters, but
I must say that equally, jarring Dumay was the first half of the book where you walk this through member of the national security team, you walk, through Madison tailors and poor poor Dan codes. I mean my guide. These, these people were struggling, that they all we all have the added to the meek- and I heard from Doktor Bruce Ski Robert Gates sent from General Haven and from a lot of who been never tromp pursue all said. We only have one present at the time we ve got to make this work, but God you reveal what I found out when they went in and they soon learned he did not show their values. In fact, Damn coats understood fairly quickly that everything that he Worked, is entire life to promote as
servant of senator and then an ambassador Donald Trump was undermining yes. Now not in coats was that director of national intelligence. Bahrwan Intelligence official over in the CIA and the National Security Agency, and that, as you said, that this was a man who was that it's all there. You obviously have read a job if it's almost a in itself, because this is a man who say senator Indiana for sixteen years. He was retiring. He was offered this job by Trump and my pants, the vice president, elect and felt he could not say no. He went in with these rum republican values and was stun shot, and
You know in a way just ground down by trumps refusal to accept ray, quality and one point in the book. I show how matters who's the Secretary of Defence in coats who talking after and then the National Security Council, maybe in it says that Donald Trump Has no moral compass and Code says Donald Trump? The president, their leader, does not know the difference between a lie and the truth in the struggle that these people, who they were in the latter phases of their life, said dough, Donald Trump is calling a promise that he would yeah, really deal with them in a direct honourable.
And then they got in the job and he's a pull all of stance in a way the trunk did that led them to the point where in coats his case, his wife Marcia, said to him, look God Dan God put you in this job. You are failing, not just the country in yourself, your failing God and you need to get off and higher reorganise things, but again Trump expelled him when it did not serve trumps purposes. And then, of course, of course, meagre Bob also right said as stand: coats. Wife continue to say that did you. Jesus is work by staying in the trumpet administration. They saw Donald trump it one of his golf clubs,
gave him a funny look and then, as they were, walking down a fair way playing golf later Dan coaches AIDS rushed up to him and told him tat he had been fired unceremoniously by Donald Trump by tweet, so my next question actually in a sort of connects with sort of mindset that they discovered over time did Tom seem. How would you describe how he felt about talking to you to these dynamics? I did about talking to you. Did he expect a positive book? then a book that actually quotes em and lays bare his lies to the american people and then, in your analysis, frames out to use your words a monumental, catastrophic leaders failure. What was it? What did you think he was getting well what I did a book called
fear rod two years ago when it came out, he denounced it and people who work for him went to him and said you know it's actually all true and Trump regretted not talking to made for here, and so he agreed to do this, and it was one of the most one of the strangest experiences of my life, because he would call me at night and I had to carry a tape recorder, around in my pocket. Have another one by the side of the bed. They have one thousands of and a one point he he called in my wife fell, Sir answered the and I said it is
there and she said the issue- is this and he said now she said: oh Mister, press and I had these conversations tape them always with his knowledge a couple of times we re got in shouting matches, particularly about impeachment, and about what reporting showdown the virus and how he needed to mobilise the country and kind of treated like a man hat and project when they built the first attack. Bomb during World war to any? He would say yes and then he would go out and play it down. All the time and imagine being of person who doesn't like Trump or likes and supports Trump in you,
that is absolutely spinning your head? Well, it's a problem. Now it's not parliament's gonna go Wade's gonna disappear it is. It is when Historians put all this together and in the last call I had with triumphantly called one month ago, deceive get the israeli you we deal in the book fair question: that's that certain important thing that he did a date. I asked about the virus and I said so. This is a month ago, and he says nothing more could be done. Nothing more could have been done and that just shockingly untrue and he
failed himself. He failed the country, he failed, the Republican party. He fail, the concept of the office of the President where you have this burden on your shoulders. It's not just and another person there is, as this the phone and it saddens and frankly, I'm Try. You know you ve, you know me: I've missed being on the show. By the way. During this period I had to go underground, but I I've been arrived. Taken ice cube before I talk. I try to cool down and not be emotional and died. In this case, you put it together. And it is a staggering monumental tragedy across the board.
It is, and you lay it out in chapter and verse and great to tell Bob it's Willie Eve. Let me to my next question, which is why Donald Trump likes to think of himself? the war time present even last night, he's talking about Churchill during the blitz, completely misrepresenting what Churchill said and did during the blitz, but will put that to the side. Why didn t the best of your understanding in the best of your eighteen conversations over nine hours. Why didn't he Take this as the challenge of a wartime president and be the man he thinks he is and be, the president he thought he was instead there and say look, this is gonna, be bad, but what America. We're going to confront this week got the best resources on the best president. You can feed his own ego and do all the things he needs to do. Why didn't he taken, this challenge. Nip it in the bud. Take it as a victory rolling into an election year by the way. Why didn't he stand up to the challenge? I sent you
question in that psychiatrists can try to ensure that, in terms of evidence, when he told me in March he played down intentionally, he said: look I played down to avoid a panic abandoned and here's my answer in this. This is one of the saddest parts of this. He did not understand the country he leads and that, if you tell the american people the truth. People will rally around and say you look look even nine eleven, the country rallied around George Bush when he got up there and he said, look good. This is so. This is a disaster. We will answer at a time. Of our choosing and the support in Congress in the public was across the board and is
we later learned, boys had been worn six weeks earlier that Bin Laden was dead Herman to strike in the U S, but from a a leader will be able like Franklin, Roosevelt by way fail, Sir said is we she added did the book six times was totally engaged in this and one time Trot called and on the speaker phone with him, recording it with his knowledge and else's listening, and she said your yelling at him you're supposed to yell at him, but I was because sometimes you have to get to it. So he, if yet this comprehension, the Roosevelt head after Pearl Harbor, play the fireside chats of Roosevelt and any says, look it's all
news, but I know, if I tell you the worst, you will not lose heart and trunk did the opposite. Bob sand by there's so much more to talk about with these revelations from your book we'll be back in just a moment with much more with Bob Woodward. Do you love food and learning where it comes from. Then everybody loves caliph, you figure is the pod cast for you. It features conversations with, Growers chefs retailers dietician in more anybody at everybody who loves California, Figs and that's a lot of people. Figs are growing popularity worldwide due to their nutritional profiles, versatile flavoured overall deliciousness California has the perfect climate for growing figs, which is why why hundred percent of dried and ninety eight percent of fresh commercially grown figs in the United States are from California subscribe to. Everybody loves California, figs on apple vodka
or wherever you listen- to learn more support for this podcast and the following there, it comes from Monday dot com building in it Annabelle road map for large scale projects, makes the entire process a lot less stressful and makes teams happier to Monday calm, offers a flexible teamwork platform to manage any team project or workflow online. Keep your team on track, so you can continue to collaborate, plan and track work in one. Example platform wherever you are build confidence within your team and reach every goal. Every time visit, Monday dot com to start you're, free to weak trial. Churchill was on the top of a building, and He said, everything's gonna be good, everything's gonna be become and you have the Nazis dropping bombs, although the London
he was very brave. Does he was at the top of a building was very well known to do, was standing on buildings and they were bombing and he says everyone's gonna be safe. I don't think, that's being necessarily honest, and yet I think it's being a great leader, but he said you're going to be safe, become don't panic. And you had bombers dropping bombs all over London, so You could say: that's not show honest but it still great leader. Are you really it's say that he's lying about Winston Churchill in his legacy the battle bread? I suspect it comes from ignorance, somebody probably told him a story. He got it mangled. Yes, Churchill would, at times go up on top of the buildings is explained in this plenary. In the vile, by Eric Larsson. He would at times go on top of buildings and watch farm. Stroppy never gave speeches on top of buildings more than that the suggestion Winston Churchill sugar
the things during the battle. Britain is just it goes against history, I'm sure kill, as I explained earlier, on their show, but it bears repeating after he said it again last night, when he had to convey, as members of parliament to not appease Adolf Hitler, follow Chamberlains path into the nineteen forties tonight: what Lord Halifax wanted: the British to do and make peace with Adolf Hitler. This is how Winston Churchill. Soft pedal that two members parliament that he was trying to persuade If this long island story of ours is the end at last, leaded and only with each of us lies choking in his own blood on
the ground letter the end only when each of us light choking in our own blood on the ground Churchill would go out the mornings after those bombing raids and weep openly in front of people. Lost their homes loss, buildings, and it was the people of Great Britain who would actually comfort. I at times when he went out there and then they would shout out its Wendy it's funny because he was there with them. He said for with them, he went with them and he let them know that this could, in in all their debts. That's it he missed Donald Trump. The second part The story which is yes, he had optimism. Yes, he show leadership and he spoke hard truths. As you just said, he told them. You didn't
the nazis- we're gonna miraculously disappear. As President Trump has said about this, he told hard truce while leading him that crisis and Bob writes about that can just talked about it a minute ago unless bring back Bob Woodward now Bob. I want to go to a part, you're, but that I haven't seen, get a ton of attention in that's early date is the president's conversations with President she of China and the impact that president she may have had on this. And made by President Trump and the White House. You cited February six call nine O Clock Washington I'm a Thursday night in the residents were president from calls, then she the objective with present trumps advisers was to confront? president. She about China allowing American officials into the country to investigate what had been going on with corona virus there, and conversation present. She you quote as saying a president: I ask the United States in your officials not take excess.
Actions that would create further panic You have Bob presidential telling President Trump effectively to downplay it to not create pet panic. What your sense in your conversations in your reporting of the impact, present she had on President Trump and the tone China took with the United States had on the way this is all played out a bit better president she was lying. And we now know that an tromp his faced up to that and called it the China China a virus and made it clear that he doesn't believe what China D done this but see that was all known to trump the end of January, and that's that's that moment that was Miss Tier and Joe. I think it's really
The way you went back to what Churchill did in his response and as a leader, Churchill is not only pointing a direction and showing his own emotions, but he He is facing a moral choice and that's what leaders do they're, not just there is individuals they are facing. The more Choice of am I gonna, be honest. Am I going to step up and be response? but maybe I'm gonna take a little bit of a political head but see this is what parliament wants to avoid any political head and in vain obsessed, I quote five. She doctor for her she'd, the leading infectious disease person in the government saying that
is only interested in reelection. Did he file she saying that Trump has, almost a negative attention span and time in time again in the book you see where people are trying to get through the Trump and he dismisses Lamb he's driven by is impulses his own perception of what Reality is in the air, and this is the awful part of this aid. Does not mean, as you pointed out, he always telling me in eventually telling the public that he played this down and last night he saying he played up and Is he understand what a fact is in What is the reality we
dealing with this is a moving train. The pandemic in its speeding up as all exports doktor foe, she'd say this way: it's gonna converge with the regular flew in. We are confronting a hail storm in the coming months. According to the experts, according to the models that work facing, do we have a president In this time, who can kind of say, hey, let's have a plan again time and time again, there is no plan. There is a trump tweet or an impulse and there is always an impulse and my barnacle two points going back the march, I remember saying on this, shall take that Churchill model
Marge. Take the Churchill model. He always told the british people how bleed things were in May of nineteen, forty and beyond and the fall into the winter of forty one. He always let them know that they were fighting for their very survival never tried to sugar coated, it's just something that Donald Trump could I do also, I must say, Here he is still flopping around trying to figure out what is strategy was in early march, he was getting phone. Calls from Rama manual rum from Zeke Emmanuel every other day, and you know I spoke click on the phone was begun. Himself and practically frantic and sang early march. The window was closing. The window is closing. He kept calling the present say. Mr President, yes, nobody is dire yet and the genes are still.
Hi but The window is closing and he kept saying that until finally, at one point Bob said ages Day, because the window had closed and he knew that thousands and thousands of Americans we're going to die. Donald Trump was worn. You listen to what he said to Bob Woodward. It seems he understood the war, eggs from his own staff and people buy take a manual and he chose We ignore those those frenzied warnings, regardless. Yeah well Joe I'm in the sadness of this in its all portrayed in Bob's book. Is that Donald Trump? As a man of the moment? He is not a man of history. I mean- there's no link between Donald Trump thinking about Winston Churchill. A Franklin, Delano, Roosevelt two leaders who both accepted back
news, hearing bad news or unafraid to talk to the country about the bad news, but Bob your book, woven within you book, is also a story of how Donald Trump seemingly goes out of his way to diminish people around him. I'm talking specifically now about general matters and in coats, and after the meeting with the north korean later President Trump? size to appease Kim Jong on and asks that the training manure risk around South Korea and joined with the United States Navy to be low key to be cut. And he orders that done in general matters in the book. Bob is talking about exactly that. The impact it has on nations like Russia, China, in North Korea and general matters, says the following What we're doing is were actually showing how to destroy America. That's what we're showing how to the latest from our allies how to take us down
it's working very well- we are clearing war on one another inside America. It's actually working against us right now, A few weeks later on, May twenty fifth Nineteen again in the book, general matters and then Also having a discussion. General matters says about coats, has problems with the president and the president continually diminishing the dna. He says this is not good, maybe at some point we're going to have to stand up and speak out. There maybe The time we have to take collective action Code, says well yeah there may be in general matters says he Dangerous he's unfit Bob worded I've known you a long time. You ve covered every aspect of Washington life. There is to cover you ve covered politics. You ve covered the Pentagon. You ve covered the I must state Senate you,
individuals that none of us can get too and they talk to you? Do you have any sense of why, in this apocalyptic, venture that we are now all in the middle of as a nation that men like General Madison Dan Coats, have not yet stood up publicly to talk about the dangers and the peril posed to this country? a truly unstable present it to the United States. So I'm glad you went to the specifics of their conversation because coats is out green sons baseball I believe, and He just says: I've gotta call in talk to somebody and he still DNA any cause matters. Hooey was very close to matters had resigned. I think five months earlier and he said I need to talk to somebody and they go through
that conversation, if, as you related, but then the issue of standing up, they say well, Admiral Graven remains the one who the Bin Laden rate, one of America's true heroes, and now head of the Texas University system, they save, my graven is stood up and he did I mean he's denounce Trump uneasy, and that in Madison codes. Same look: what happened to him! Everyone ignores him. It makes no difference now this. I think I do since a key issue in all of this, there is overtaken some people
our business in the media, business and in the country, fatalism a sense of nothing matters. I go back to the great leader at the Washington Post Ben Friendly owed. During Watergate during his tenure. He always took the approach. Look, we present the facts. Sometimes people it has an impact. Sometimes it doesn't. But were not in the business of trying to direct some sort of even political outcome? We just John in do our stories. In this kind of them Bradley had the will to see that end. Fatalism, the fatalism of matters coats here, then it's under
to hinder both because they have this example. It didn't have an impact, but we we all have to do our part now in this book I am able to tell matters income story in detail until her since story indian view see one in the one of the best discoveries is how they are just churning inside and trumpet is what they called tailors and dumb as Iraq and when he left why. Why asked trump about these people? What, above matters for. Do you think? Oh he's a pr guy. Well, if anything, Matters not appear he came in out of retirement and There's this inner change with his mother when he's taking the job a great the fence and is
other, whose inner ninety says in how can you work for this man. How can you you're going to work for this man and matters says to her: it's in the constitution read that I have an obligation to do this and she accepts that, but did not accept from, but Travis did they they were. They were all reluctant to go when, but I felt like that possibility go until her son was urged by his wife to go when saying with code search by his wife to stay and because of their responsibility to this, contrary to use our talents designed to about codes. Having that sort of fatal is Dixon, nothing really matters from one. He had seen in there, but then turning to his former com, legs in the Senate, the Republicans and wondering why they had a wet this country down somewhat
It is truly a tragedy. The sad sad story about Dan Codes in here, hey Bob, then there's really telling part. What are you talking to Jared Kirshner and Jared, trying to explain the the trunk? administration and If you want to understand it, it's you can understand it through these four articles or books and it's just bizarre and really speaks to. The malignancy of this administration and also just tell vapid they all are Jared pointed out. You know you and in heavy com that crazy why asked in all else. So dangerous Adele Peggy finish that town and then he said you look at the Cheshire cat
Alice in Wonderland and is you right? Of course, How bizarre that he would point a manipulative door, action was young vapid character than this. Is our book and then Chris Ripples, Vulcan chief of Staff chief of staff. Mr President, where Whipple concluded that tromp quote here we had no idea how to govern and then I thought the most damning double Its creator wrote a book called Wind Bigley, an entity explained tromp lies intentionally and can quote invent any reality And then Kirshner said to you that when he lies. He cried It's a controversy any creates a media reaction where they're trying to facts like, for instance, when he lied, state of the union address and lied about. Having the best
economy ever Jerry. Christian said that that lying The winning strategy because lying creates controversy and when Donald applies and when he lies and when the administration lies, the press. We to all their lies and that only amplifies. This story I got to say that man is what it is extraordinarily damning on all fronts last There was a victim of identity theft, every three seconds, which means a criminal could be spending your money applying for loans in your name, damaging your credit or and selling your personal info on the dark web and you could miss certain threats to your eye. Did by only checking bank statements and monitoring your credit so get lifelong identity theft. Protection lifelike he's certain threats, you could miss and alerts you if they find something that could be suspicious plus if you become a victim of identity theft. A U S base
identity, restoration, specialist dedicated to your case will work to fix it from start to finish. No one can prevent identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses, but you can find out. If you are formation is on the dark web. Get your free dark web scan at lifelong dot com, slash scan. Pick the planet's right for you and save up to twenty five percent off your first year by using promo code M J, that's lifelong dot com, slash scan and use promo code M J for twenty five percent off. Well I mean that the the fray, Is that a cautionary uses? Is controversy, elevates message and one eggs, Bali is tribe goes out. And says: is he repeatedly says before the vote when we had the best economy in the history of the world in the history of the country and Kirshner, says now
literally that's not true, and the fat checks go and say: oh wait, a minute in the nine nineteen fifties. It was better and so forth and cushions as the analysis and envy jollier exactly studying the country. Versus over. It elevates the Trump message about Oh. The economy is good in the average person out their here's Trump say it's the best economy in the end. Our world ever and they say what gee the economy's pretty good, and then they see the fact. It has come along the net pickers and say: oh yeah, well eyes and ours period was better and then go back. Oh away, hundreds, Five years in history and the average person says now now wait a minute. Why
are they going after the president this and so that the that this is a calculation this is not just accident. This is can't you know, and so commissioners now is also with controversy. Fine, it elevates the message a base. One that the economy is good, an average person isn't gonna go through the echo make history of the world. Then save. Is that in fact, true is in fact not true, it's true enough see. That's the whole strategy here, true and, and and keep repeating it may guess so. Members of the media and with some one of the things that we ve said repeatedly on the show, if you just look at GDP Growth, Jimmy Carter had As for GDP growth, van Dead Donald Trump through the first three years this presidency, you look even before
the krona virus out of the last eleven twelve, Presidents Donald Trump was sex. Their savage, not even in the last eleven or twelve presidents on GDP growth so again one lie after another, but is Jared. Kirshner says the lying is good as the Dilber creator said the lying is good because he can create his own reality and that elevates the message that is That is a really disturbed, really a malignant growth on the presidency and and on this country. But again, their admitting at all to buy. We always knew. It was true they're just admitting it above are beautiful, a conclusion about this president. That is not the guy for that to say the least, Can you arrive yandah? Yes, can you described then
what a second term would look like under this same president, not just his tendencies and policy decisions and executive orders. But is news? France is, and even the team that he has in place. Cross, all departments. While who knows what a second Trump term would be light, but I think one of the things we really need to address and I've thought about. This is the Trump supporter. I know lots of prompt supporters, financial advisers, business people, workers, military people, law enforcement, people, just the average person out there and I think We need to understand the appeal the emotional appeal from past to them and I written, recently read a column, were
one analysed was saying you know from lacks decorum and people lots of people will say: oh he's, breaking off the norms and lots of people like that. They want the president, was out either today or the other day, and he said in this kind of very ringing self confidence way to his supporters at this rally, I'm with you, I'm with you As far as their concern, that is the pace, and we need to understand- and I think not get in to the trap of Oh, let's say no well, there's only one way to think about prompt. There are there are ways to think about from an people do and weak. We should not kind of
say: may I am doing this book, I thought. Well, you know the conclusions are obvious. Are to me is rapporteur. They are not to lots of. People, and I have to understand that there are decent people, people who look at this in a very, very different way. That's fine! We're gonna have an election and people can sort this out is they want and, as I keep saying about Ben Bradley, said soldier on. It always say: nose down ass up moving slowly forward and that's what we have to do. I think in the what fifty As before the election, some of the most rub, important reporting, factual reporting what's going on and what the attitudes are and what the palace Caesar, and,
who doing what? Four, because we are in, as I say, I'm sorry to repeat, but there we are in the midst of a hail storm. We are in a kind of public health crisis that We all know somebody who eggs is died or somebody because they had been. You know it's really. We are in a pinch to say the least, whose law somebody was lost, a job or whose kid can go back to school. The effects of this touch- everybody, as you say, bought me, do writing sensibly in this book about the strange relationship between President Trump and Kim Jong, who, in the north korean dictator, you looked at twenty seven letters between the two of them written in the is twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen president Trump has to those as love letters. His term I want to
for you last night what President Trump said about Kim Jong Moon and ask you more about their relationship at pictures having a good time nobody's ever see him smile smiling. He feels have Let first work. Remember this when you, over, and I really mean this to you. Take over a country in twenty five years old and use of millions people that are all smartest, l and energetic in other energies, eagerly those kids, once told me, father because and you know what that attitude got him nothing Let me turn they built a huge nuclear force during the last two administrations to haven't done it join me.
Strange. You had with the present December fit of last year, which is released last night, so Bob what's going on here I mean just to put it bluntly, between the two of these guys. President Trump in the book talks almost get Lee about how cold tough Kim Jong balloon is because he his uncle, killed and left the headline body on the steps in the Senate to send a message. It's bizarre What is going on with that relationship? Well, Trump took a deep, in turn ebbed snap out of the traditional foreign policy. Playbook normally when you have fun but there is preparation. There's been lent support This is what tromp is done and ie. Need. Told me. We went through this in detail and he said look I I won't quoting literally, but he said what did I do. I just gave him a faint meeting and I did took two days. He has said
published this relationship. You have to Haven't had a war, a lot of people, including a general matters when he was secretary of defence thought we were gonna, have a war with North Korea. Excuse me and the this was a path trump took. Risk in relations between young and tromp are not good now and poor and I have to see in history where it goes, but we have not had a boar and their them Letters are at one point, came right, so better. To drum saying, oh, I remember in there Demarcation line between the north and south, the rabies, one
meetings, I'm sorry and holding your one sees hand and- exchange of It's almost like that. Said, the round table, you know, on four, all all through each other and tromp rights back and says, look will be free forever, so the day risky deplore. Attic strategy, work or not we're not Eddie place now to say the least and mad as particular. Molly was horrified by the since of nuclear weapons that North Korea had hidden away EL conceal right, is report in the book man head go to the national cathedral to pray and reflect,
suppose we have a nuclear war suppose he asked to execute the order from the president to use nuclear weapons. It is one of the nightmares that wig. Our into or that existed now this not one trump created mainly was, yea did earlier and he's right. This nuclear force was built during two previous administrations, so Bob spoke at length with the President the protests for racial justice, and for that part of that conversation, let's bring in professor at Prince universe. They Eddie Claude Junior, Eddie, high Bob, one. Congratulations on the book, but I was fascinated by your your line. Request around racism to the president. You proud not only is understanding of the history of racism in its effects, but you time to try to get it
question of how he felt matters of the heart based upon your answer. Upon his answers. Would you would you conclude their knowledge It is in fact racist, They just simply or is it in It instance that he's the dynamite bind the nor, as you use, as you say, in the end of the book. Right is just simply bringing out the rage with regards to racial division in this country and exporting it for its own ends. Well, I don't use the terminology. What I tried to do is described, and then this is what, for me, is a report who was so unusual to be able to interrogate Trump and wave one conversations after George Floyd was was killed with that was made twenty fifth and then a whole uprising blacklist matter and not just black lives matter, but people say:
wait a minute. What about racism, institutional racism in this country. So I asked Trump and I I said too so? Do you understand, worm them son the judge in lawyer from Illinois and white privilege, classic white privilege, so is Donald Trump, and I said so word these. We ve had so many benefits: do you understand that People who were not their anger in pain, and we have a tape of it. May he ridicules made Trump says wow list Do you, you sure, drank the Kool aid? I don't feel that way at all barnacles? Whether sin? As another question, might.
Bob offer would you just talking about your Bob Woodward? Everybody gets that you're different in our business because of what you have done because of your career, but during the course of all of this. All of these conversations with Donald J Trump, president of the United States your wife answering the phone. Who is this? This is Donald Trump personally and on a personal level, did it ever strike you that this was Kay crazy that the President United States, with everything that he has on his desk or supposedly hasn't his desk, that who in spending this amount of time with you Bob ordered. Did it ever occur to you that this is beyond crazy. Well, you know what I'm when here in our businesses, you know and you can talk to somebody in and talk to them. I would Diet, a number to call in the White House and Unity
there get on the phone right away, or he would call me. Back he never sometimes there was a day or two dollars. And so I want to find out, what's going on in I'm doing a book in demarcation line for me is to get it out a month or two before, the elections. I told him this and I said this is when people need to see. What's going on in, and he would say. Oh I'm a wow, that's right before the election. That's a beauty, and I buy getting it out now in September? People can look, look at it and see what happened as a package of its. We talked about everything we talked about,
the economy. We talked about race relations. I was able to say, asked the question, but what's in your heart, what what's in it? for somebody to vote for you and he gave explanations and though we went through all these issues, as people have said, David. These are like the Nixon tapes you get to. What is really thought but the real motivation is, and these are the trump tapes and if you look through book you get to see you get to see play and not just statement by him, but I I pressed him also follow ups Eddie Glad
but but what about what I'm gonna play? I want to come back to the question I mean. I know that you're hesitate to two to two to make judgment to draw But there is a sense in which the main way. Yeah yeah. I'm just saying that I want to go back to the issue around the racial reckoning. Just were quick. Second, the way when she talks about black lives matter, the way in which he talks about a law and order and the like and how you describe it. I'm wondering do you think he's exploiting a just war? Is all political gain or do you think he's actually committed to a certain understanding of race that animals. How he imagines himself and politics. You see what I'm trying to get out here, BS I do and in
The answer is lots of questions about it and it it's I can't get in his head, but I can report what he says, and I am able to press him As you know, All of these issues. I think he's got very little understanding in idea, what's going on, in his country, the right the issue in many issues. I think the the red Eyed just with him this issue of as a report you want to understand other people as president, he needs your stay and other people, you need to get in other people's shoes. Any shows how well I need to understand and deal my own shoes and I've
pressed him on it and I think that's not them in Joe makes this point. That's not the way he thinks it is not a frame of reference. General matters makes this point. It's not kind of that kind of its rational. It's it's it's good! have I've got an impulse. Let's do this in you know, Madison sitting over there. People are now sitting in the White House. People in the pan, gun in the CIA and the State Department. Who knows what tweet disco come. Who knows what decision is going to come out of this, and this is this is the and others, Agnes, there's, no organisation, there's! No! All we ve got a big problem. Let's sit down, let's should now. Let's hear ideas, let's go
the experts in let's get the political view that doesn't happen. It's all directed by Donald Trump one man band and did you say just now I mean all of this stuff. He died in my first book that he wanted to. The syrian President Assad, assassinated. I knew he tried that and didn't. I did so emphatically at the time said denote. The book is pure fiction in its and now just their day. He said oh yeah, he did want of, has made a sign in add is prevented him. Wouldn't go along exactly, as I described it in a book to you ago. So what reality a president in our own lives. We need to demean. My wife fell, so would say
say what you mean in this section in this draft and I had to deal with her wisdom and a President needs to deal with other peoples, wisdom, it doesn't really care about they d not comprehend. It's not the way his mind work. So where we have a president tragically cut off from reality. In the it of a health crisis hunt so you know still a thousand People will die a day by mean my God were approaching. Who hundred thousand people and its good and complied with flew season. We need. We need, though reality. Sorry, but in I've this for ten months I you're pretty.
I would call it asked me to come on the show, and I said you know I've gotta go underground and look at this and the The looking at it was one of the. A more moment personally as a journalist, but also as this The second is a human being one of them. I can't tell you. I lived this twenty four seven for ten months. Thank you so much Bob for that. I thank you for being with us today. We greatly appreciate it you know. I only wanted to joy raid on so excited to tell you about my new MSNBC show the retail every week, I'm talking with the biggest news makers about the most pressing issues of our time, like Joe Biden, the words of president matter, and so is present United States. The first thing I want to do stand up and talk sense and be honest with the american people level with them at last
mayor, casual lance bottom. We need as many voices as we can have as possible sounding the alarm, encouraging people to wear masks and to take all precautions. Antibiotics science and the data Senator Kamel Harris. We send folks into a more wearing camouflaged. So what is going on here when you said camouflaged uniformed officers into a sitting and many more, you can listen to the reader as a pod cast by searching for the redoubt. That's our HIV! Oh you t one word were ever your listing right now and subscribing for free thanks for listening.
Transcript generated on 2020-09-16.