Karen and Georgia cover the mysterious death of Thelma Todd and the Footpath Murders.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is exactly right. Allow me to wear back for a brand new year of a brand new podcast. Year, that's three years old, it's three years old Nick mind. Is it this modest month ocean girl dude that so many years to be put in passing years. That's what three year, one hundred and four years but
feels like seventeen minute toes, this thing has been like a fuckin. It's like stepping on new, an elevator and then being like, oh my god, the cable bureau, but it's fine upward into success, slant, excess ceiling and not downward into you, get crushed, though no, but our stomachs are still in our throat and they re exact same feeling of panic. Fear, that's right: yeah are still waiting for it to now go they'll kill us even higher than it would have had we not travelled up or whatever I don't know it's happening. The I may have chosen the most negative metaphor possible for the best thing that ever happened to me, which explains everything. That's my style gets its explains everything about us about this by gas called. I favour murder. Did you know that that's Karen kill Gara and that's Georgia. Hard start fresh from twenty eighteen thought that ear years gone, goodbye, goodbye,
It's a fresh brand new year. Do you make resolutions yeah? I did, but it's also one because I realized we talk about so much stuff on this podcast and we are so constantly like limiting personal shed on this long enough, Lytton like when I went to make resolutions on like now. The suggestions have been talking about for a long time that I've been declaring you. You know, you know what you ve been promising yourself, because you say it weekly, yes, but I really think that I want to truly is for real note. Was this time is a further twenty nineteen is ever anywhere has a nice ring to it but I honestly wanna start saying yes to things even when I want to say no, ok, maybe the other times were, like you know, just trial periods and youth, you ve kind of practice and salt and give it a little shot. Now it's like Rome while for that specific one, it's very easy to say you want to do that, but when things come up there such a resounding no, that its
well, this is it. This is purely logic. It's not my opinion. I simply cannot do this thing like what do you mean the anything? What if the correct answer is no ray. What have you shouldn't be doing? Well, my Rome, as I always think the gray answer as an ok maybe go to. Maybe you ve around fifty percent of the time died in, but that's what I think are proven here that I am wrong about seventy eight percent of the time, but it's there weird habit of what I do pre right, what's gonna happen and based on what I make up, I dont like those results. Therefore, I'm going to see a stay home be not try to do something, but our yet. So I just think basically the saying yes forcing myself into discomfort. Therefore pay
ass being made to harm. Is that is my new plan for twenty nineteen? Ok, how but yourself I dont really usually make resolutions, but I am running daring greatly again for the hundredth time sure, and so I would like to greatly by Bernay Brownie right recommendation. We ve made many times elsewhere to be more aware and approved. It is in the moment, because I think that we do this thing and shocks about it. Where anything. That's happy and joyous. As we said, we you add on the end, this is what's going to go wrong with it. Yes, so, instead of cycle where we were just like took a minute, we're like to have to appreciate how Gratis id and having anxiety were about to start on a tour Trembling is really hard for me and scary, so to actually take a moment and enjoy and liked. You know added up. That's a great plan. Also because I think
I've just traveling the whole thing is we ve been doing things that are incredibly daunting, pretending that we do them all the time just so so we can do them and get them down Lincoln. I remember the very beginning- and you are just like. I do now like travelling and light. There is some real lake. We have to do this and we can't do that and that went away very quickly because you just did it didn't you didn't stay home go now. I don't do that. You just said I dont want to hear and then can I find a way to make it make it happen. We can say no to shit like that. Now you can. I make an international money sign up my fingers and another is just for me or the kind I was doing just for you, and then I thought it's gonna reed you're gonna hear that the greed in my fingers, as I do that but yeah so there's but there's ways to prepare oneself so that travelling is there that the hearings, eighty, that you know, is going to come, won't hit you in the face and you'll be.
Experts at every fucking time, like preparing my stories ahead of time, planning on doing certain things and every city in a sum trying to do that. We now it doubly makes it easier, but I know- and I think that's probably the same reason you do it is when you have a thing, that's that you have to get done. That distracts you right! That's the problem than flying is no longer the problem. Fear of of em death is no longer the problem, something bad happening. When you leave is no longer the problem, suddenly the problem as you haven't gotten your homework done and focus on that entirely and not worry about that. Is it normal is a very bad? no, I'm saying that let's go, you are probably doing that. For that reason, ok, because it clearly matter to date to worry that homework on it. Does that Elvis is gonna dialogue on exactly ok that make sense yeah, not Fraid, of like beyond the planet, all anymore known, we'd, sweet done it so much
a yak as I used to have a lot of like it wasn't even fear flying, but just that thing of the effort this isn't going to be worth pain, re or something which is in sight I'm not. Eighty two, I don't it's like I'm just doing impression. My grandmother all the time- I don't know why, but I will I did tell you this already and you have the funniest reaction both, the pretty good story. That's a little bit symbolic of just the experience though we ve been having again no complaints. Last think it was August, but I can't remember exactly the month I sprained my Angola hurry back is, and I am sure I talked about the show I was walking. George I was with my friend on I was pointing
something out over my shoulder link our rolled my ankle off the site of the sidewalk and then basically looked at dawn and said you have to go get George and I have to make it into the house before this thing blows. I guess I won't be able to walk on it. So I like quickly limb. Back to my house, put my foot up and then just had a terrible sprain for weeks and weeks. But of course our fault or was coming, and I new I wouldn't be able. I all I could think of. Was you can't walk out on that stage with the weird limp like legs that moment where we go out on stage at the live, shows such a big moment us and it's so exciting and you don't wanna be lying on corruption are going out and his ball at the bottom ill. What or I carry on nine and we look to you like or vest brand hearing my bag? It's really that care, how how aerodynamic? How could you do so? Sadly, I put my foot up. I was
this like this, can I don't have time for this right now and then we went on tour and it was fine luck and you, I have to say yours at you, you hobbled, a complaint, or so many airports where I can tell you, were in plant in pain yet, and I can tell you- are using neck away. Suitcase fur fuckin know keeping you up. It was my secret Walker. I was this. Here's a free commercial for away suitcases there, not just one three convene suitcases that make it easier for you to over pack. They also double as a longer a very hip, modern Walker. They got that side. Rural thing that so fucking amazing, yes and used view if you get that away suitcase on the side of your sprang, your golden okay. So when I want home for Christmas, on the floor. Day back. I was going to pick Nora from Grammar School school she's indoors go, it was at the grammar school. At the same, when I went to so, I'm walking up the back entrance
for some reason- and I kind of want to sue the city over this, but there are they This thing on some of the streets and Petaluma, where the as you go into the ditch area like there are the asphalt of the road and then, as it goes kind of toward the sidewalk cement. It turns into cobblestone almost like, This is what it used to be like so you're dating its charming to look at yeah hazardous hazardous. When you have to look at your phone plenty for hours a day and other issues that shrank get don't even have time to twenty nineteen will deal. Twenty Taiwan will get so however, it goes down. That's not gonna, take care of a child, that's right into and take it off the to do us right. So, as I'm walking up. Looking at my phone there, a mini cobblestone, porthole foot, size, pot hall, and I wrench my ankle same ankle role. It again, freeze
don't fall down this time. Last time I fell all the way down, which is very clear that oh shit, oh shit, OSHA! Yes, because I hate it made the same crack. It was, equally horrible and I froze like, is this going to be the worse and then nothing in the wave of paint and come and that this didn't come? And so I'm like? Ok, so I kind of like very casually, as I was taught myself to do hobbled up his second flight of ten stairs. I realized, nor is not on the playground she's on the upper on sidewalk waiting for me on the other sidewalk alive, so to work, but I'm like waving her down without trying to turn ideal. She made May we go, and I say we respect Christmas shopping, the other, and I said I'm I'm in it. You know keeper, check on her. But I might not be able to target today s like ok and then we by the time we get to you, know across town it does, still doesn't hurt them bad. So I said I'm going grab a cart
and I'll have my walker and will let get this Christmas shopping done so that for new. No, my sister comes home and she, like, we put and she's putting ice on it. She's, like it so bumpy, will you just get a fucking x ray, as once I told I didn't get. Naturally, the first time she lost her mind here, so she makes me gotta poem of Ellie Hospital and it was like Eight o clock at night, and I an x ray. I broke the first time we are so it was a broken ankle, and then I was, asking for several months until you're, like more I'm going to ignoring besides, don't it's on any higher at least six, not several months that was like a year ago was that a year ago I think so yeah, because I guess it wasn't at the beginning of this vulnerable that's weird. I am. I can't keep track of time. It will any way when I texted Georgia, to tell her. She was what the fuck am. I said, if
I didn't have time to feel it, and so I just didn't and she wrote back. I want a laugh, but I also want cry. I had just gone to the fucking podiatrist and my toes been fucked up for like a year in this fight We need this doctor took me seriously and didn't x, ray and my toe. It's, not an indian toenail. I fuckin it's either a broken bono, my toe tumor. What night, when I was hobbling last or that of the airport with you Changing my shoes all the time. Oh, my were right. We didn't! there was. It was not in the end game plan we can do it now. So we didn't do it, but now that the new powers of artists are now, let's see alive, it merits Goethe,
get surgery. Let's get some surgeries. Let's have a surgery, tour attempts, surgery hooking at the most surgeries. Only without anyone noticing that you got so yeah you can, and you could do it on your face. You have to get very high and so subtle the highest developments right Mary. I am speaking our tour starts on I'm excited. It starts on the tenth in San Diego, I'm not that it's a great that most of the most of the shells are sold out, but listen Honolulu, Honolulu, Hawaii, they're, doing Hawaii time on this show yeah there being as chill as Hawaiians are its February. Eighth, I believe, and the like, we're gonna need some see. Farmers in their yangtse fellers go there or, if you maybe live in a cold climate and you
independently wealthy and you wanna go to Honolulu, for our show. Come on over, take go take a weekend, rotund, it's it's for Valentine J. I dont know sure rent a jet pick us up on the way, come and will see their inlets Party Weinstein's right. While another exciting thing about it being January. Have twenty nineteen is very soon and a whole new wave of? I cast serving to roll out on the exactly right, podcast network which were very there's some of us that we cannot wait to tell you tat. We ve been teasing it for a long time it's taken awhile, but Finally, in a roll them out and you're going to be very happy, it's been annoying not being able to tell you guys this, like fucking slate of podcast, that we ve been or islands a working on, because we ve done nothing. I didn't find means that a lot of work to make them alive, but we're not the casters ram, so you know what I mean
but still we have all that We have that hometown pride, that's Re Anna, we just think you're going to be excited. Lots of these outcasts were specifically either chosen or developed with the audience that listens to this park has in mind. So it's very very exciting to us and we think you're gonna be all excited, so keep whatever will tell you it's exactly right now or something Estonia and Twitter. That's all their twitter lots of lava and then, of course, in the meanwhile Please listen to this part. Cas will kill you the per cast the fault line and, of course, there's gonna be a brand new episode of D need. A ride means deepening Chris Fairbanks just recorded it with the great Dave HOMES Dave home. Let him come on Monday, oh yeah. We did on New year's Eve Day, hey skier, ten homeless. Sweet he's the greatest I tried listening to this bypass will kill. You know about it, theory am unaware falling asleep at night
It was a bad idea. You know you get tumors in your throat. There are no it's. It was one hundred like. Why can't listen to this moment falling asleep, because I want to miss anything but also and terrified and your touching your throat or who knows? I guess I don't know this. Clearly, I've not in touch with my body just check and think what we did theory it does it do. People still get it Its lessons partners, Jellia Muttered- I listen to this bugged, as will give you on my way home anything else. I don't think so, not the right! Well, I guess we'll just bring it up as we think of area facts
furred style, though the last live show, because we did the Emma from origins last we ride. I want to listen and to analyse and alas, except that organs it Stephen FUCK and made a beautiful episode, divan editing, so many fine like coming through old episodes, define the origins of a bunch of our stupid quotes yeah, and he put them altogether did a great job and we need an it took a long time most because I just was listening back, I'm so sorry, working nice mine. It was like a your Christmas gift to US air. We didn't have to record an episode. Another episode at the end of December and wandered on. Thank you for HIV em. So at the outset, before origin always glasgow- and you did it- bible. John. He asked yes, sir than you would go first Oak or me twenty nineteen, the advent of I need a new system. Waned, slipping russian BO. Ok, they found in Russia. Are you really
would you say you're good? I think I'm good at it we're just so that's ridiculous and I was right to say it and then you asked it turns out. I think I'm better ocean, but I could see it in your eyes. You were like. Should we do then my eyes got bright like they are when it was merely a middle lose immediately. So it's one two three had yet right learn to hit shit. You just want one so now Georgia doesn't get to believe she's getting roach sambo and I do. But where does that mean you go first or I go first or you get a pig we didn't decidedly albanian at aunt What is winning mean? What do you want? I I assume winning means you go second, but that's because I'm from the world of sand of comedy were that headliner his lab at it, but that doesn't applied so that Spain and ITALY at the same time. Do you have it in German, under a good I'm a very exciting and, like you and me I mean I feel it gets its you get to pick because it media to go first or you get bigger yeah tickets.
You getting which, when you want to do like going first. Sometimes ok, depends on a few story that you think is going to be a good end or I don't. I have to say we haven't done this and so long hours way that I've kind of feel ice. I absolutely dont know what data is also generate, not mean. Obviously it's Wednesday is that's when we record, but conceptually I've been asking what day it is for like two weeks now. I would like to say for three to Ireland so in weird, like vacation mode, because we have had one in so long. We alone literally and legitimately, took two weeks and didn't, a thing and like didn't do They were so weird it's it was. And suddenly I could feel my bones here was now pleasant gazelle broke right.
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it's an under. I dont know what it is. I think I got it. I will tell you. This is the reason that I picked. It is because it's in my little file on my computer. Murders that I haven't done, yeah yeah and it's what we only once it had any information on the page whatsoever cause I've run out of those completely re, Elect Gray had started for media barely had like a backlog to begin with, then, yes, this was one of my only once and then that the whole reason I loved it is because there is this quote that I pulled from another story was like remember to do this one and remember to use this quote. You know I lost that coil. Do that any when you're pacing from one document too, and if you cut from one document and then you delete something else before You pays no, it's gone yeah! I didn't like, if you basically take the place of the cotton pace year onwards gotta. Am I wrong about the Stephen I dont know? I mean
and might be whenever you like. I don't like it now. I think he half its highlighted deaf Definitely that's highlighted you copy it and then you delete it. It won't whatever yet. I just want to see if we can get Superboss boring before I started. Just like have a nice a basement, it can only go out from here, but I'm just lacking, I wish I would say this was an under if I had this quote, that would have been like, but the tiara on top of this princess story, the coil doesn't matter now, and I know I truly don't have it and now I can't find it couldn't find it, which is very odd middling. Where did I get it ever even exert yeah lit the wasn't just a court that you wish someone would say or did? Is there a rare chancellor, I actually read and physical book yeah and copied the quote out of a book impossible
dont, do research not have even read it. I can barely touched books because of my ankle. Ok, but the so I'm gonna do for you right now and Lebanon, twenty nineteen, the murder of Oh my Todd O K, Hollywood actors of the twenties and thirties. You know from the many marks brothers sounds it she appeared in if at all, they called her the ice cream blonde. And she in less than ten years made over a hundred and twenty movies and short comedic short sees us three. Shorts or with a broken ankle, she is she here. So I got the Madrid we have the information about this murder.
From the website deranged allay crimes, and this is the same website where it's it's wrote, rope site written by someone named Joan Runner, and that's where I got the whole story for alive show to live shows ago. When I did the story of agony Underwood and was the first city editor this basically very famous female, true crime, reporter in L A in the forties when no one else, no other women were doing area and she did it and she is said to be the one who coined the black, Dalia, nickname re shoes and supposedly the first on the scene reporter wise, crazy so. John runner has a website deranged la crimes, but there's a whole part is about Aggie, underwear and she's, like an expert in Aggie Underwood. So a lot of the information is from there and also
I got it from there, so apparently Lonnie Anderson's starred in ninety. Ninety one film called white hot than a serious death of two automaton and When that I think it's made for tv movie, but Everyone only ever called it movie ran the internet, so I'm not sure and it cost Fifty dollars on Amazon. Like it's hard to see, I thought I was gonna. Watch it really fast and fun. Like then long, the Andersson said this, like you can't get it. You have to be like a devoted, but in ninety ninety one, a writer Anne Frank as Sannella wrote it article in the Chicago Tribune, was basically, it is all about. Thelma tides, mysterious death, because this lonely Anderson made for tv movie is about to come out, so he basically was like it's still a mystery, but there
some theories, any kind of like reignited the whole idea. So let's do this. Crate found was born July. Twenty ninth nineteen o six and warrants Massachusetts to and abusive distant alcoholic, that's right and Irish father named John Todd who is an upholsterer and a corrupt local politician, great job. I dont know if he really was both of those things, but he was said to be one thing and then the other thing and different websites. I like to think he started as a lowly. Upholsterer re any rose up to a corrupt being a cropper. You know like even back then it was by such a small town, those like great year mare, yeah, anime leg. It wasn't like a big fuckin daily, there's a big conflict politico. Second, that's right. You they're, like you, recover our couch so beautifully or the math exactly. Thank you remember that time we had a whole conversation about how pollsters or always creeps yeah I think it was it. It was because
Angelo Buono. Who was worry all sides wranglers, he wasn't upholstery are just having fumes glue fabric glue and they got a lotta like hooky. A lot of instruments are hook shape. Yes and yes, anything else now go ahead. While there was nothing okay, so Thelma Hon, graduates high school sheikh, actually in roles in college. She wants to be a teacher, so she in rules at a school called the Lowell Normal School. Where mask out is a normal person that the additional, nor is on one as normal. The skies like a beige person, yeah he's got, is button on the way that this time he's just Norma, he likes pot roast he likes potatoes, go oh normal, p, missionary sex and laughs it that's always into. Ok, so that is now the University of Massachusetts that level, but at the time was called Lowell Normal School for all those people
in Massachusetts, my pronouncing Lowell Wrong, not sensory. It sounded Worcester situation as I don't think so. Why I am asking you am I getting so confident. My answer was the year in question: do not always a chance about Cisco named Caldwell, Lowell rate saving. That's why I'm pronouncing hey I'm visa. Maybe Massachusetts called something else, but listen. We're going with the San Francisco pronunciation, gonna do it nor Cow West Coast, Zan. Okay, so, unfortunately Tom and wants to be a teacher, because our names Thelma. So yes, that's a natural but her mother Alice is RO pushy and, like you need to enter beauty contests well, it turns out her mother was right because in nineteen twenty five Thelma wins the title of Miss Massachusetts. Tangentially goes on to compete in the Miss America pageant validity or later on.
Isn't win, but she does catch the eye of Hollywood, talent, scouts and she ends up getting caught The paramount YAP so now, his end. The mid twenties mid too late, Twenties Hollywood studio system earlier, which I'm sure was good, but From what I understand. Pre Code, Hollywood, lotta, amphetamines, sure there was a lot of drinking there's. A lot of just minority is everywhere to type things is casting couched Althea actors or cattle is where only never mind. I take back my positive note, Now we can be positive about it. Now I hate it. They'll come on, don't let your love of acting beheld early studios. This I'm just saying. There's a reason that things are the there's a reason we ended up in them. The fucking me too. Situation that were an right now and it's because it's this has been a long road of overt open. All right
film is heard, starts out in silent films, but because of her beautiful speaking voice- and I say beautiful, but ass was like she had no cable. Yes, she could speak like a normal exist. She didn't have the am like a normal human. When the person I her, he fell back. I sheets we just like him. She was thinking of the schoolmaster all those football games where the Beige Guide cheered does came out with eggs ray. I really hope you guys win. Look I'm is supportive of this team and she was like a ham, assailant movie star. Look at me. I really Florida normal. I love it. I love her. She makes a transition to talkies and in less than ten years. As I said, she'd appears in over a hundred twenty movies and comedic shorts now commute torture. Like this thing, and it's you if you ever, black and white like member, the old, sound mediator, her back in the day there to be community short, select, buster, Keaton, immoral and hardy, and all those guys they would put these little short movies that were like,
was an hour. It was like twelve minutes long or whatever. In a ton of those and ten thirty one producer, how Roach teams her up He gets this idea that he wants to have. A female whirl and hardy. He thinks that would be great. All that bro the authorities were like ear ruining my childhood women aren't there now is again, may women our money and then they all do a quick for port harmony Caroline, so how such teams Thelma tied up with very famous actors as you pits, who is very actually You look a lot like shares. These big brown eyes is very kind of dramatic looking and she looks like she was an amazing, silent, film, actress issues very expressive, so the two of them it's like the blonde and
the picture is jobs as pitches Burnett could have changed in the twenty in the like later in her career, but then they do a bunch of shorts? You those famous comedy shirts. These start in like hot dogs. It's basically you like original, you do like me. Doesn't it make money? Contact fall down a couple tyres break your necklace. And then drive a car shall be hilarious, your women one of their short was called. Let's do something ray, I love it go with it. Let's do something put publish it on Youtube now, so good, ok, so than Wenzel pits leave? How roaches, like production company of work, contract dispute dermatitis, then paired up with an acronym Patsy Kelly and they make a ton more now. While she is under how roaches tutelage never said that word before he creates something called this you might enjoy. It's called the potato clause handier. He does. He believe
Thelma had await problem over, so he stipulated that he put in her contract the potato clause. If she gained more than five pounds, she'd be fired, Jays Ass, so of I stole my mother was there to the rescue, giving her diet pill o k, which she of course became addicted to, and this is- and she also has a huge drinker- and this is now in this- turns into the characters towards all those, never miss Massachusetts. I load When I try runner up, I couldn't happened, taunting line on fire. Ok, she plays opposite buster Keaton, eventually what she gets famous for is being the blonde, and barks brothers movies that all the brothers are Antaeus, including
feathers and monkey business, some of their most famous movies? If you haven't Marcia Marks Brother Movie, you absolutely should the super hilarious. They genuinely are great comedy and chicken marks is truly one of my favorite performers. He plays the piano. Would then he does jokes while he's playing the piano, he doesn't pay and are playing jokes like you have to see it, but it like one of my favorite things he's amazing, so one thousand nine hundred and thirty one she stars opposite Chester Morris your favorite actor at in a pre code, crime drama called Corsair, and director of that movie was a man named rural and West who then, began to have an effect on again off again affair with use a married man. In nineteen, thirty, two, she marries a self proclaimed producer and he got a hit a self proclaimed for it is there. I mean here's the thing about Hollywood. It was founded by
people in the mafia and creeps it just what they? Thus, they were self proclaimed everything they were, so they were just proclaiming all over tat. I know art, I know how to proclaim until you make it as with the use of these, and that was the old saying goes the poster the Chico marks out of his bed. So these guys they ran the movie business like it was any other business like it was running liquor or pronunciation already. They was kind of the same thing where If you are in a movie, you could shut up and you take your money and you would get as much as they gave you the end. Toto and hair. Take these pills you now the party, the ants potato clause always hanging over your head, the bit a clause still exist today say unspoken at my favorite learning Madonna gained via power as their fire. That's I actually directed. The potato clause would earn a late
sixteen, and unless I'm gonna gain five pounds every day till I break both. My ankle, ok oh, we waste even every time it, but I am not from the even is a wreck sitting on a scale. Nineteen thirty two Foma marries this man, his name's pat. I think it's check. But it's Spell D. I see I see seo the Czech ceased Third ACT a should now it's not that it's do cease. So this to see so Caesar was named after him with a seasonal and assess so he he had mob ties. He they had a very bad marriage. They both
Frank, a ton. They would get a huge drunken brawls, one of which resulted in a broken NOS four, Pat and another ended in an emergency appendectomy, for though my holy shit, so they threw down marriage for two years in nineteen, before they get divorced and right after that, Selma stops drinking she's like I'm already on diet, pills believe me when I say it's actually the best come Greeks nanoparticles, because when you're on diet pills, you can do
like nine beer land, not feel anything like that's when it just start cutting the edge off the diet pill- and I bet you in the thirties die alone way more intense, laboring sale or they may not like the Fuckin asbestosis bargaining, gasoline, NEA S, Ethel Gas, only I'm allow Edmund I'll sit and a pinch of Anne s best suited on Albania like Dounia, then pretty pretty brandy and he lost all so in nineteen thirty, four, she decides she's gonna open her own. Basically restaurant club- and it's called thou metallic sidewalk CAFE and in them. Well, I know I drive by all this high, yet all the time I'm never on pc age, but every time I don't buy it, I think that's stomata display of yes, it's the bill. I believe, is still standing. It is between Santa Monica Malibu on PC age, its gorgeous. It's the best location right.
Right on the ocean and world echo looking building its really cool. It's very notice it because it's really like it's an old time, equally actor. I think it's like a car mechanic. Now, where something is it really night in ITALY, that they didn't make it like this LOS Angeles they that they're, just like oh yeah that can be whenever you want you're, not gonna, make it any kind of a land monitoring and a historic preserve. It now have it be like a pizza hut, talk of L dry through that's what we like. Let's designate this system could quickly. So at the time though, methodical sidewalk have it was these Spargo of the thirty. It was frequented by celebrities, politicians and lobsters, although reporting and the menu offered agendas. For thirty five cents what my parents used have at every holiday like Christmas morning, Easter morning they were Jesse James, there's just Jenin, DNS Jen, it's an egg of God in any way,
egg, I don't go use yokes. I hope not. It's my mom just drinks, a whole egg and then eventually it's an old alive goldfish and then she saw was tire iron get into the man is the first that pupils out of office, skeleton and now she's in the Guinness Book of Records were what a great woman agenda is. All I know is there's a way, it's, as you say, gin and lemonade minimum lemonade. That's always has to be borne weekend of minimum level of like defrost candle. Alisha was always on the counter when it was, you know, is a holiday legal guarantees for well. If you took forward comatose sidewalk cafe, it would only cause they would cause you thirty five cents. Eat rate is not the bathroom
I couldn't do. I could multiply that by taking a minute in various over dollar, and I know that we don't even know it doesn't matter right. The dollar forty is already. There is also the time it's hard knock out, which was one dollar, so that was like triple agenda. Is there? Is this Todd. Milk punch would have each had a gin base, wonder if they made all their own like bats of Genoa, Urban and the Thelma Todd Ricky. Instead of lime, Ricky, which is forty five cents, and that last one was listed as a hot weather suggestion great. Thank you. Yes, yeah just wait for winter. When you have that Jimfred there don't eat drink egg whites during the summer. Let them disgusting, okay! So here's what crazy she opens Stomach Todd side. CAFE with Direct and her on again off again Lover Roland West end, His wife actress
we'll Carmen she's like great. Let's do this jewel as, like I love restaurants. I love ideas. I let my husband a God. I love this guy so much that I want to go into business with his girlfriend actress so that there are still the three of them move into the duplex. That's above the cafe. Now this that line of information. I got from one website but Then I saw on the John Runners website. There is actually a hand drawn map of the location and simply in the foreground, right by the ocean is the building where Thelma, outside our cafe as a whole and at the top of the building there is an apartment, come there's an apartment that Thelma Todd lived, but then in the street above basically so was like a house built into the hill, a view of the ocean and overlook the building where the cafe was that's. Why Roland. Wes lived with his wife, but it was like up this. It was basically up
the main house, it was the main house up three huh, upstairs for pc, h, you'd, have to walk up them and then walk up the road. So these, but basically they all live together. Whether it was in that department above the cafe or annual ones. How snakes, yeah, apparently jewel is fine. The wife is fine. That HEAT Roland is having an affair with limited, but Roland is not happy because Doma it now the I live together and have this business together. He seized the constant influx of her other lover, slimmer on again when he off again and it pisses him off? He doesn't like it they're all roommates, which is a mistake which what is she isn't something you should do? No drowning Fareth married man go ahead and don't move in with young as it just is generally advice definitely ok,
and one of those lovers is the mobster lucky Luciano. Now this guy have you ever seen a picture him. I've seen the guy You played him in boardwalk empire and wholly holy shit smoke. Tat. Smokestack smoke, people leisurely, ok, I smoke shown OSHA, that's the trinity thing to say, but I'm starting smokes smokestack new has a. He is the smokestack of nuclear fusion reactor, Secondly, let me see if I know them and what's the actors name, but who played him I'll. Never know, could see the character, but he's a look at the real. Luckily like unless yon it looks a little scarier than he has a. He has a lazy I scars on his face. Like a Panther scratch, she has been punished in the face so many times. You know it. There's no cartilage left in his nose and he himself as a smoke show. I will say it here: it.
The sky was like here. I want to talk to you at this Barodia I'd be like well apps, a fucking lulli. What would you like to speak about, sir? How me anything with their broken job? Listening your vaguely threatening face just consistently talk about like arresting bitch vague. He is resting. I'm gonna shoot you in the back of the head when you think we're just out for a stroll totally fate resting vase. That's the thing! Will you look up this the actor that played lucky Luciano and Boardwalk Empire, because I do remember when his part would come on. There was also there's hammen, there is Meyer Lansky and they were both ha totally able. As he's an amazing actor, it's on. Yes was the ample man, a serious man. A serious man here is amazing, love him. Ok, the actors, Vincent Piazza, actually Lucky Louisiana high. They stuck here he's the keep well see in that picture. He, of course, all actors.
Take pictures wearing some weird european scarf, and that is how you know that they're, not the character they played in the period is the only way you know, because that I as lucky with Kyoto, is so scary and your hair, so perfectly like finger wave and he's like all at three p suit and he's just You can tell TAT, is like New York, tallying accent and share yeah and he's like calmly, killing pebble and calling for people to be killed and Thelma taught is like apps a fuckin lately let limited. God, damn it. He did that yeah, ok, yeah! You guys watch boardwalk empire the idle again you haven't seen Burma can power. I think it's on the sum The streaming HBO enough dreaming, automaton season and she's like absolutely so here. She sees in Vienna acting version of hands that scarface version he's by the way when she meets him, he was the first head of
the Genovese crime family, which is applied Second big deal when I went on to lucky: Lucy Honours Wikipedia Page, just a kind of get a general sense, because I thought he was like an allay mobster. It was just kind of like opening clubs here and stuff. No, no, no, no, he was like he was huge and everywhere and configure out what city originated enemy is smokestack was hot brass. He was welcome a killer among killer s, so you meets him at the cocoanut grove. More all great it's happened and authorities here, which I believe I could be wrong Stephen. You might want to hear Stevens writing in his notebook, greater he's. Your writing take out lucky woozy on this day, I just as lose five pounds. You know revive our, I think, ok Love is what
the comedy story is now. I guess you heard there's always a stories about how the comedy store on a sensible of art is haunted and its because I believe so students going to crack me. Do you Look, I'm gonna grove and these days, people in the basement and kill them constantly, and there are amazing, go stories from people who have worked to the comedy store. You guys who have left the main room, closing up the club at night and they go back end it like they hear a noise and all of the chairs are piled up in line. Oh pile in the center of the revised the scariest thing, stacked furniture because the world like fast stacked, furniture and and because then you know something at an end. Those were people who who told those stories, unlike television yeah ghost story shows where there are like. Yet this is I'm here like the skies on abortion are now so Ezra. He said it was like the so scary, so I think so.
And am I wrong with the at that says here cause it was demolished in two thousand and five, I guess. That was used to be our eastern into the ambassador, hotel and saving about the less aware was coconut growth this and it was on three thirty four hundred Wilshire nowhere near and everyone knows our nose. The ambassador hotel never had any problems and well everything went well there. Everything was great at the ambassador. Tell Israel major assassination never took place there, so everything is I guess, there's lots of bad vibes. Norway is really what I mean. That's really Ella indefinite moralist story when bad by okay, so you see now why this is not a closer ok, so she meets lucky. We see honour gonna Grove, he officer, a glass of champagne. She says no excuse she stopped drinking when I divorced asshole he
She refuses him grab sir, and pours a bottle of down Perignon down her throat, and then they follow me up because the limited we had a real problem with dating abuse of man. You know people so like starting her father Javelin with her father distant views of alcoholic men was kind of her and also it was so common back the idea. It was just the thing. I think a lot of women just expected to happen break your manhandled. You are treated like a thing, so she but also how scary to date, a those people are scary heartily and she's like I'm in it has used a spit it out, any also got her better diet pills. Oh, he immediately got her hooked on stronger and that means and was like we're doing less, but this had part is. He may have been using her because what he wanted, although she was the most beautiful answer,
zestful woman in Hollywood at the time really was huge, she was like the biggest star, but he, wanted to open a casino above Thelma Todd, sidewalk happening in the empty third floor of that building and It was his plan. So what he wanted to do, what because she already had the celebrities and all the people going there, he wanted When a casino on the third floor, then a movie studio executives would go up. There lose their money, oh him money, and then he slowly take over the studio system. That was Lucky Louisiana, plant holy shit and that's what he wanted to do. But Thelma Todd basically said no you're, not She didn't want to have any that involved in her restaurant and that wasn't happening now. I'm seeing you all the little thing. That were going on and Thelma of light on the fairest, the re lots of bad but good fun. Great comedy stuff hot dogs,
but then also lots and lots of Greenpeace, and so on. SAM. Eight December fourteenth in eighteen, thirty, five. Get invited to a party that I Le Pino, who at the time was sixteen years old, her father. Who was a british actor, he was throwing her her Sixtyth Birthday Party or a party for her eyes, and it was our brother at the Trocadero which is another famous club. Maybe maybe that's what the comedy store was talking about. Talking to my father was zeros and it was merely a controlled nightclub. Sera, yeah, ok, article and Daily Bruin about the history. Ok, thanks, even so the gutter triggered Arrow for idle subpoenas birth. Eight. Now, if you don't know anything about ILO Pino the time she's. Only sixteen she went on to become a really big star in the four is, I think, more in the fifties, and then she became a director. She was one of the first big theme
directors in Hollywood and it's only ever mentioned on, like that a good on the Google saying one year when it's like you know the date of her death or whatever, but you're interested in anything like that either Lapenotiere shoes a big deal and she should be more famous, ok so He Peters is one of the methods usual limo drivers, and so he picked her up her and her mother going to this party and when they get into the car, gets chased out of the house by role in West, who is yelling you'll be back by two a m and he gets into dilemma and turns around and says I'll, be home at two o five and then you out, is how I like to imagine it so they go. This party Ernie ends of driving Thelma mother Alice home around eight o clock, Thelma is- while she still there at the party
her ex husband. Pat did. Churchill shows up with a young actress. He was not invited to this party, so they immediately endo fight she's. Like your trial embarrass me, you try to humiliate its big blow up and Then she just days are obviously she was not bear ask she stayed and until two. Thirty in the morning, she sits down at Sid grounds, table the man who opened the chinese theater, and it was one of the first big Hollywood guys I don't know anything about him, I'm trying to live through this part. She sits down at his table and says we. You call Roland and tell him I'll, be home. I'm leaving now I'll be home. Half an hour, I pictured is. He was sitting on others tables. Had a phone like on the side, little side table yeah over the phone which, in nineteen thirty five, would like having your own satellite yeah, real
big deal said Graham and so when she finally leaves and get sent back into the limo. It's three I am lakes earning the limo driver says that Thelma was unusually quiet on the ride home, which is really saying something. She was on. A ton of diet pills God, you wanna talk so much on this and smoke when he dropped profit three thirty, he first to walk her up the sixty three It step flight of stairs was a goes up to the house above, but she does something she never does cause? He normally does do that, especially if she's been drinking she says now and That's Ernie Peters is the last person to see south alive so on Monday morning. This is this late Saturday, night early Sunday morning on Monday morning? Delmas made of four years our names May Whitehead. She drives her. Car down to the garage to get
was Brown Lincoln Convertible and bring that down the hill down the hill? To the cafe aware, Thelma, usually is at the time so that she can use her car down there. That was set up, that they always did on Monday mornings and she later tells the police that the doors to the garage were closed, but they were unlocked, and inside she finds Thelma Todd slumped over in the driver's seat of her car. The engines running almost of gas Some may runs down to the cafe. She tells the manager the cafe to call Roland West and then Sir called went though my mother is too leave her daughters, death. She screams my daughter was murdered. It's the first thing. She says but I was twenty nine years old at the time of her down young. So this second, the story breaks that she died. Her death has treated with total suspicion and murder is immediately in the headlines. There's no proof of it
and they're kind of will never be, but it's just mediately introduced by the press and by people like Oghee, Underwood, the true crime, people who are just like, This is a woman whose, in the prime of her career, she is a young he's still gorgeous, get now getting full length movies and she you know like she's, really coming into her own. Her restaurant is huge she's. Why would she kill herself and makes no That's that she would killers of but law enforcement. Theorized though, actually happened was she came home drunk from that party. She found herself locked out of the house like Roland less said he would do and there at the beach. So any. Else. In LOS Angeles, it would be unlikely, but out on the coast, it would be pretty cold at three thirty in the morning in December right, so she wanted they theorize. She went into the ground to get warm and cause she was drunk
She turned her car on to use the heater and she died, of carbon monoxide, carbon monoxide, new ways. My eyes were scanning the page so quickly, so corners, inquest, endidomi, Death is held on December 18th. Nineteen, thirty five, the topsy surgeon. Ap Wagner testifies, there are quote no marks of violence anywhere upon or with in the body and that was only a superficial contusion on her lower lip. So they say that her for one of her front teeth with chips: and that there was blood on her left hand from from hitting with these it from passing out nearing her mouth on. The steering wheel is so the jury rules that the death appears to be accidental, but recommends further investigation to be made into the case by proper authority. But now
people claim and a lot of journalists theorize that her nose was broken. So she didn't just fall it like pass out into the steering wheel, her noses broken the ends. Say they saw bruising around her neck. That indicated strangulation. There are also rumours that she had to broken ribs she'd also had peas and carrots and her stomach. They did not. Of peas and care at the Trocadero, so There were theories that she went when she went up and found that she was locked out of the house. She end that's going somewhere else and eating and hanging out with somebody. But that's all theory was our alcohol on her system. She had a point, one three blood alcohol level, so that's dead but it's not like crazy, sloppy drunk like drunk, but you can get yourself They say that you would know that you're about to gas yourself. If you got into your, if you were that drunk and you wanted to turn on the heater you be like I'm just going to
called in a garage yeah. But who knows soon, as I mean she couldn't even across remind that, that's people die thy way. You know I could it could happen that it can also been that she if she was also on all that speed he added she didn't, have all our faculties. It was kind of like fuckin aiming to do this for one second area a slave bs who knows a grand jury probe subsequently found that there was no evidence of murder and the case closed by the Homicide bureau, which listed the death as accidental with possible suicidal tendency. The investigators were never able to find any motive for suicide or a suicide note, and all Her friends and family were like it's impossible that she was, it would want to commit suicide because of course, of her career of her restaurant like every
was going great for her here that I wish to do so quiet in the car, maybe she's just like fuck that shit well, she could have been drunk. She could have a credible causes that fight with her acts and may be being embarrassed from that it could have been. He could have also met. But he had that party that she then plan to go, see her and is going home to get her car together, where she was, I going to walk me upstairs. Could she wasn't going upstairs? She was like going to meet somebody, I mean who knows so? Here's the even weirder part then about When police start looking into it, a bunch of people come forward claiming that they saw or talked automaton on Sunday December fit yes a so one of the people who claim this was a woman named Martha Ford, she's if an actor Wallace Ford and she was hosting a party on some a during the day, and she claims that town, called her em,
and she first on the phone. She's thought she it was someone named Velma, she didn't know who she was talking to and then She realized. It was Thelma and she's thumb ass if it would be ok if she were evening clothes from the night before are to heard partied. I and Martha said sure I don't care home. She claims that Thelma then told her. She was bringing a surprise, guest and said quote: she said said she said quote: you wait until I walk in your file dead. So somebody's in the mix is amiss. If this is to be believed in it wasn't an impostor. There was somebody in the mix that, because you could also be quiet in a car after being in it because you ran into someone awesome and hot that euro Oh, my god, I'm gonna go meet this guy and yours exiled famous actor, something let your leg yeah up with, and also the famous Enough
there's. The tragedy. Train came here. The two chewing jujitsu, thinking about that is. She herself is one of the most famous actresses. Who could she have been talking about that she was like you're gonna die when you see you are bringing to your part, George Clooney, its clowns humming early day, pre, our climate. So yeah, MRS Ford, assured investigators. It was not impossible. An impostor. She was positive, she's, Bogota Mutton. Then it later in courts of its income Is accurate? I think I just wrote that, but later on Jewel Carmen whose role and wife Rollin West's wife she testified she saw Thelma Todd at the intersection of Hollywood and vine on Sunday morning with the handsomest handsome stranger in the passenger seat of her car. But according to donors coroners estimated time of death
Thelma was already dead in the garage at her at jewels. How, when she claims, you seen her in Hollywood, which, if you know anything about less, and it is a very far away from civic palisades. All of this. Taking place and like if she needed to like it her saying hers suspicious because she's putting her somewhere else to avoid the suspicion. Yep exile or any connection rights, her her family, the house, you know she was alive when I saw her lasts yet not near here yeah. She was having a great time. Hollywood and vine where that harvested ranger at a big old timer Starbuck, is with that old stuff I just had the one very step he did it all so Thelma Tots funeral is held on December nineteen at length, yeah three days later open cast Thousands of fans show up her to view the body they theirs
it's good there's a really weird pictures. You can see there's tons of pictures of all this, as this is also back and Talk about this a little bit with the Agnes Underwood thing. This back when the press would show up the cops had crime scene is alike, and all this stuff there's pictures of everything you can see. Pictures it Thelma Todd in her car crane. The July will you can see it all guides so there is a picture of in her coffin at the viewing ensure, Her coffin is surrounded by roses, their piled up everywhere, but behind her and on its really weird, and also the coffin is tipped up a little bit you can see her thumb. It's open cash, you her from far away. That's who creepy it's so gravy and its yeah. Of course, her two x friends and Co Stars Patsy Kelly ends as pets. Devastated. Anderson. Patsy Kelly was subset. She had to be kept under a doctor's care because she had just gone shopping with downloading
like days before so its end, She wasn't even thirty minutes, it's horrible. So now we talk about some of this aspect, so obviously the Ex husband as the first suspect cause it's one of them. People who saw her alive hub. Fight. Infamous, like wife, beater, this guy Pat did Shako whatever his name is when, unto Mary Gloria Vanderbilt, whom God he used a collar fat, so her some, he had some horrible nickname for a woman who is in no way like he's a fucking pig and he used to beat the shit out of her as well so keep and he had mob ties. You know if, if stomata embarrassed him at that each party that he was not invited to all these famous people. He could have just enraged and got drunk himself went I knew she was when she was going home hand like met her on the staircase and then basically set up the body to make it look like it was an accident,
and later on in nineteen thirty seven pat. She go was said to have been involved in an altercation with care, in TED Huey that lead to his death. He's no stranger to beating the shit out of people until they die yeah so he's up there? course: Lucky was your up there, because his whole plan of putting the casino above dominated Cyber can re that she said no to and he clearly wouldn't would not in any way I mean he was here. He was like the head of a huge I'm family ass. You know one says no to this guy, so it could have been knocking her off to get her out of the way so that they can go in and actually make them. Land that obviously like a plan to take over, show business here and It said that a fuse hours after Thelma body was found. He was a plane.
Of Ella and he left town. The most likely O. Also, though my mother, Alice was set. You ve, been bragging about two friends that she was gonna build a mansion for herself Alice was the only person, in former times will so she who's, gonna, get all the money away. Her mom knocked her off. Well, you never know, but then those Roland West, so Roland West. It is that he did locked the door on Thelma Todd that night and locked her out of the house, and he had done it before to her, but she claimed one. He was like on the official record He claimed he was only joking, when he ran out and said you I'll be back by very way feller. If it's one, it's hilarious, threatening Joe, but nobody believed he joking, because he he was
constantly enrage. So apparently his career wasn't doing that. Well, she wasn't that interested him in him anymore. She he was having a witness, her hurt, other lovers and all that dates that she went on in the fun parties that you do so at the very least, their theories that he intentionally locker out that lead to death actual death by a carbon monoxide poisoning me he found her then tried it like basically make look like that's what happened and that it like it had nothing to do with him, which is then wide his wife jewels. That she saw covered, all eyes exactly, and he ass. They knew what he did lead to her death, so he was just trying to break the chain, but there. There also theories that he's that he she came home late. They got into a fight. He strangled her to death, which is Spina connects those suppose bruises that she had on her neck
broken nose and the you like, basically her general being battered. That he had finally had it and then then placed her in the garage and made it look like she either killed herself or basically just Then she reasoners on what she passed out and then put her in there, and so she still gotta died from it right. When will you know yeah, maybe you're, saying there's a third theory: none are no. He he's triangles
till she passengers and actually kill her. She just listening to make her pass out Peltzer on the cartoons engines on Owen and she dies from bad. So the coroner's like this. She died random, but she was placed in their yes and has only kind of convenient, but it works out perfectly for hemp is then he has the restaurant re. He has everything he may be even has like deals with lucky was yeah, maybe he'll, see no and that play well did turn into a casino after their right. I don't think so. I don't know, I don't think so. I think I think it just went straight to Jiffy Lube straight into the jiffy lube. That's there today and if you bring a coupon, they will honor it lol, they're, unsubstantiated rumors. That Roland West admitted on his deathbed Esther more ass, your favorite actor and his good friend. He was more involved with Delmas death than he had an initially admitted to police, but of course those
unsubstantiated by Chester Morris himself, who everyone knows, is a fucking liar. He lies everywhere, Thelma Todd's last movie, she started with Laurel and hearty it was. How many called the bohemian girl and died after she had finished it, but producer how Roach re almost every seen deleted. All of her dialogue and limited her appearance to one musical number and the quota that I did I pull that? I was so excited to even tell this whole thing it. Basically, when the press asked her on the day that dominates our cafe opened. The press asked her why she would open a restaurant and she, is the gives bad s answer, and God bless anyone that can find it, but ass. They said she setting up a safety net for herself. Because she wants to be able so in the future, when she's not pretty enough and when she gains too much weight, she can go and trance transition right into this business and never worry about it again. The way that the her for and the people around her were so
up in looking beautiful, while staying young and all the the like tracks and dangerous do have it's fucking Stephen leg I hear it is this. Is it seem an amazing? How can I couldn't find this fuckin website? Eliza long ago, that is only a case of a few years for an actress before she gradually and sometimes almost imperceptibly loses popularity and younger ones start to take her place get some of the one time famous stars of a few years ago, whoever hears of them now most of more unhappy and rather bewildered. Pretty hard to have your life long career at an end. So I decided long ago that I wasn't gonna be one of them. The years I'm going to bother me as they do so many of my colleagues wrinkled don't worry me. Neither increasing way, because as long as I can use my head, it won't matter how I look Thelma
and Karen Fuckin Kilgour. So much less you amazing. While we should open a restaurant, you want. I couldn't, because everyone knows podcasting as soon as you started age and going way they keep my guide air. So the opposite! God bless you all the pie, gassing mafia in earlier, and that the store the story of the mysterious death of thirty's just tell my Todd great job. Thank you really. Excellent. I dont know how to start. This is called the footpath murders, but has got like historical cepit significance, and I want to tell you about it. Ok, and I got a lot of information from a good. A common guardian by in Cobain than elsewhere. Ok, here we are November twenty first nineteen. Eighty, three
Narberth row which I definitely had a look up and make sure centre right a quiet village located in in Leicester, sure another fuckin car and one that I was not sure. As going to ride out fanatically, I started out. Lester share Leicestershire and Norbert out, like now at length. Dna are linked not only of the dollar. Why narrowly bureau? That's right, so Narberth is about a hundred miles from London. It's like small little village is at super small, but it only has it s like a little village and sewed of armour of drivers. Section three. Fifteen year old, Linda Man takes a short cut on her way home from baby sitting instead of taking her normal route. So it's a small village community where crime is almost unheard of. So when Belinda hadn't arrived home by that night Sartori and freak out. Her family, ass, the police, to report her missing the next morning I deserted footpath known locally as black pad
Linda Man is found dead, with her clothing scattered around her she'd. Been strangled with our own scarf, an autopsy shows that she had been killed pretty quickly and, had been rate. Postmortem yeah awful takes her little short cut down. Some fuckin, like in as you do, when you know that little in a little village tat little yeah yeah. So rarely wasn't that secluded. You know it's just said we could then everyone tax rate so using that the forensic science techniques available the time police find that the person they they take, a seaman sample from as body and they say it's a person with type a blood and an enzyme profile that matched only ten percent of males in England and the
quiet, village down is terrified. The residents are fuckin in a frenzy freaking outlined to catch this, this killer, a high school girl and but there's no leads or evidence, and the cases not clothes which left, open and kind of goes called. For three years mangos by the town, starts to kind of somewhat go back to normal and then on July 31st, one thousand nine hundred and eighty six and a Thursday afternoon, another fifteen year old, high school girl from the same fucking high school, called named DAWN Ashworth. She leaves a friend's house in the village and begins her truck home. Only a few minutes walk away dawn it was only twelve at the time of Linda's murder. So maybe she didn't hear in other warnings names you still think of it. She chose to take a short cut along an overgrown footpath locally known as ten pound lane And then she vanishes
Her family becomes worried again they'd put out a search for her. They can't find her Tell two days later, when Dawns body is found in, in the corner of a near by field. Close. The ten pound lane that she had taken she's cut. And twigs and branches and the virologists established that she had put up a fucking, crazy fight. So she hadn't been cholera away like Linda had she and then had been raped and strangled since other fieldwork dawn was found in was just three fields away, which is like a hundred yards from Ireland. S body had been found three years earlier, plus the locations where between a cemetery and a psychiatric hospital now runs losing their share. Like did a fuckin psychiatric patients get out I'm gonna kill you. Bob Ray are girls. Did someone rise from the dead and killed in the cemetery? That's right! So it's it's like which
just coordinate, offers the creepy hysteria of your village and don't have anybody walk over they'll? Never ever I made it so creepy, and so there like. Will these these are probably related, and so seamen. Samples taken from Dawns body show that that it's the same person who killed under three years earlier detectives believed that the killers, a local man, someone who knew the area and possibly even new, Linda for some reason a week into their investigation and dance murder police, get a break when witnesses comforting that they had seen a young man in the vicinity of ten pound lane on the day of the dance murder and that man is tracked down and it turns out to be a seventeen year old name, Richard Buckle and so Richard buckling is a kitchen worker at this idea. Ass, our right, yeah, let's see likes to volunteer at the summit. That's right he's a kitchen arguer ATLAS. Amateur too he
Their invitation around the village for linking this to scare girls as they walk home and after fifteen hours of questioning. Richard who had learning difficulties kind of a slow dude. I believe he confessed to DAWN Ashworth, murder, but he added It really does that denies having anything to do with Linda's murder. Oh he's like I didn't do that one, but I did do this one and of course, they're saying he had information that only the killer could have, which we all know now is not Ino does mean anything if even interrogated for fifteen hours the police are a hundred percent certain that that the person who one killed the other, it's it's impossible that he just killed one of them and they are convinced, he's lying So he s charge August tenth with Dawns murderer. Ok, meanwhile, crosstown this dude Alec Jefferies,
sorry about him, ten miles away from where the girls had been murdered at the University of Leicester, sure of course, they're they're mascots, of course sowed the fighting long Sacrae. You know walnuts, Halleck bag to fight of each other and in England, clunk into each other. On his airy comment, bye, bye, bye out so loud, yeah walnuts everywhere, clack, clack, in that case, at the university of what I call it Lester. So he this dude Alec Jeffreys, is a genetic researcher and he had recently made an unexpected but insane fucking discovery during a failed experiment.
He was studying the way inherited illnesses pass through families and kind of studying like so he could you pretend to be tests and that sort of thing I am, he had extracted dna cells and attached to vote a graphic film which he had been left in a photographic, developing tank and whence he extracted that the film showed a sequence of bars and Jeffreys realise at every individual who sell had been using. The experiment could be identified with great precision, so he was a fucking first person
to do the answer as to realise that DNA, like a fingerprint, everyone has their own its specific. If you're from a family, you can tell what people are families and all the shit holy shit must acknowledge after is, do well, is the originator so after published so he's. There's like this is incredible: he I'm sorry, I'm not a second coworkers and bodies who were its notches, him, etc. If not lie on. I give him on the credit. However, he publish he after publishing an academic paper on his discovery. He uses his new single testing to solve paternity cases and all other kinds of like cases like that, but he's also like. Well, I wonder if this could be used to apprehend criminals as well. Sir
but she's when he had second talked about that possibility out, like a conference, the second the audience laughed at him. Of course they do not always go or, like that's, not gonna happen, brow yeah. How would you know downright Lex Ankara near phase from what eighty years look at your damn face? Leicestershire police thought or like that ass. They were coming forward. Thinking khazar like let's have the sky fuck and help us yea prove that this Richard buckling is the murderer of both of them, so they contact Jeffreys. He agrees to test buckling blood and seamen on the girls girls bodies so, but we need the film from the developing bank. He can see immediately that the girls had indeed been raped and killed by the arranged by the same person, but it that man was not Richard Lackland O either fucking K is oh shit. Yeah ok
The police are totally astonished. I wrote, there's probably turnip Highbury around never have every wool and violence as very bread. Robbery, yeah kind of curly mustache, a public, they have Jeffreys repeat the test to more times, and it's definitely not him the senior investigating officer says at the time one minute we got the guy and the next we ve got jack shit. I thought and that's where that phrases and Van right in a british acts. I love you so much better in this age. Action over there that so I cannot. I bet, because it's like it's kind of acute phrase. Instead of just like you know, like Jack, shits cuter, then bullshit oh yeah sure after so after more than three months in custody. Backlash clearly innocent now set free and the police are about square wine with our hunt for this fuck and highly dangerous dabble killer s team,
its girls yeah. So Lafer and throw their vows at all and they like, let's just do everything we can. How about this an unprecedented move. They send out a letter to all the local men between the ages of seventeen and thirty. Four ask to give a voluntary dna sample a what kind,
violent Terry. What did I say, the voluntary while an area who does voluntary? I thought we were. I don't need your teaching the elders, new blood samples, tat, voluntary dna comes directly from your nepal, showing you squeezer, nipple, really heard ordinary juice that comes out. Afterwhile Alec was like. I don't think this test is work that I have been invited to integrate Terrier every time I go on said you tell people about this. Even it works better than anything else. They. Let me I'm sick of it. I want voluntary testing to be require tray on everyone and then the nipple clamps commander trainer benthic. I don't like the rose. I don't care many crimes it solves since Ghali's. Did you give voluntary dna samples
becomes the world's first mass screening for DNA wow yeah by the end of that month, around a thousand men and volunteered to give samples, and of course the police are like organ to flesh out the people who fuckin awoke examples, because obviously those people are guilty of something yet again at the time the forensic signs, laboratories or laboratories concern as an alien say many anti alluvium there They can't even keep up because like testing so many people and Of course, the media at the time in a lot of people were talking about how like this, is a violation of your. What's it called you dear. She ran right, yeah, like personal rights, all this bullshit, but the fuckin townspeople over in Leicester sure like a key issue there so hard core into catching this killer, that they don't give a shit good and basically like hound, all their friends, the male friends into making sure that they go get Testa like everyone's on it, and also I just one or two people who believe that its it it's it somehow
violation violation of your rights like it, doesn't make sense, because the cops can get you in lots of different way off this whole dna thing like it's such a weird paranoid theory. Of like than they have you as if this apocalypse a future where everyone's gonna get controlled by Copsewood, their dna or just like, but he's a cash murderers and rapists. Yes right now being used for and they have to say, I think, there's a thing now: it's not really that this isn't really used anymore, this mass screening, but when they do do it, they have to than destroy all the evidence of the dna of people who warrant this aspect re they can't keep it yet as we like well maybe later, we'll have a crime that this guy will comment. Yeah, that's really can they can't oftentimes police murmured can't solve the crimes that they're they're they're neck like holding?
when we are and why. Why am I arguing that cause your man about a hum, not cause you around is all about personal rights is the better. I hate personal rights and she argues against them any chance. She gets Bobby blah. Ok, after eight months fifty five hundred men had given blood samples only one person I refused, but I don't think it's him. It wasn't him. Ok, it was
promise, but there's no match with the killers. Samples and the police are still at a fucking loss and I like, even though they tested committed fifty five hundred fucking people at your testing and are not yours, outlining I'm here after, like twenty five hundred Reich its public enemy, this next gag has we're like we ve done so many so many, but I mean Prague, super props to the Lesters Shirk police totally we're just like by any means necessary, yeah and forward thinking, because I feel like so many people are like DNA. I mean it took an like until the Oj Simpson Travel for anyone to, even though it was what they were like. Let's use us immediately, yes disputing insane. Ok, then, in August nineteen, eighty seven here we are yes more than a year after the murder of dawn, some workmates from a local bakery are having some pints at a pub. I wrote that yearly having drinks at a bar there having pine high enough enough and their workmates, not coworkers, that's right, I'm in England.
When one of them this dude named Kelly. He starts drunkenly bragging. He has a big mouth charging. Bragging about coworkers and then how he had been paid two hundred pounds by one of their co workers to impersonate him and give blood's in his place. Oh no, oh then I'll call you can keep his fucking mouth Shelly Kelly, bragging, brag, Brac, God bless you and then, at the same time, you're, the one pint and he won't shot his fucking their bit. Now you have to pick better than Kelly when you're gonna get somebody that's going to have a big dark secret. That's right! You bye, bye, Kelly, a bag of chips, whatever any I'll talk. Ok, Kelly,
It explains drunkenly those friends that the co worker that they all knew had asked for this favor. He Kelly said that he told him that he had already taken this guy had already taken the test for someone else who had a conviction for indecent exposure when he was younger, so now Kelly needed to take it for him. It wasn't hanging out. I mean it's not I wasn't his fall he's caught up in this insane. It's a circle. Dna fraud link exactly that's right, so the Kosovars coworker had doctored his passport like cut out his little picture and put in picture of Kelly's good face? and then driven into the test centre and waited outside while Kelly gave his blood sample. His place it worked out like a harmful mom, just wait it out. There are high and run right back outside. Don't Delhi Dally gallery when you're in there donkeys
talking about football right now stumble I got soccer. Not yes, exactly! Luckily, there's a fuckin nosey woman at the bar yeah girl, who fuckin overhears all of those yes and is like waiter, in minute, MRS Insane, and tells the police about it. Yes, she dallied as promptly arrest, said by end of the day. This fuckin coworker is also in custody, whose worker. Twenty five Collins Pitchfork know: what's his name? Ok, he is married to a social worker who course had no fuckin clue. They have two young sons. Together he had worked at half shires bakery for over a decade ago. Here's what it said. Only articles, despite his habit of constantly hitting on female employees, accords was boss. He was a good worker and had a special talent were artistic kick decorations. I mean
so dont fire him here. You there soon, hopefully a hopeless Ex five years people with the integrate, the idea that heading on women constantly accounts using your word, constantly constantly at work. That is shows sign of it that you are not a good guy. I mean there's an impulse. Control issues may be there's other boundary is just yeah. Europe create just creep the creep issue, yeah he, but also now he had a previous conviction for indecent exposure. He's Monday was the Indies next, the latter had he was claiming exactly be covering for he was picked up and after reading him his rights. The detective asked why Dawson Ashworth an col pitchfork, shrugged and replied opportunity. She was there and I was There-
it's just a fucking monster. Then he gave a detailed a he believed in dna evidence do so he wasn't even gonna. Try it. If I can say it, wasn't him right. He gives details a detailed confession to both martyrs and two other sexual assaults that he had done long people believe that when he raped and killed Linda Man Six m his card been park near by and his baby son had been asleep in the back of holy shit, that's right and the night after an I'd have dawns killing that night. He returned home to his hooked, returned to his home in the village of Little Thorpe and baked a cake yeah since aim
immediately. I'm thinking of Paul Hollywood in the great American, the great british baking, should have you watched the only we ve talked about yeah. Now, I'm so obsessed with that yeah. It's great well comes an actual. It comes into play in understanding how it's his sponge. What that was it affected by his terrible terrible? crimes against humanity or was he able to get a nice big Jesus? I don't know he's so creepy. He does look like a normal dude of two x if there's one for his mother shot his eye it balls his like pupils, look like there floating in his eye. You realize how dead they are there, just like it's just like sounds like here's. What a human eyes about it'll look like and like a how you know when you put an egg awry egg and water and it floats, they
look so dead that they're just so yeah. Doesn't he? Yes, he has a what I believe the japanese call sepulchre, where your iris doesn't touch your bottom ray and I think back there Bobbing, yes and its there. There floaters- and it me is, I believe, it's japanese coke culture whenever that year, evil, if you of eyes like that. Well, I might have done that before a sign on a go that far too my no, they do not need promise. Yet if they fill up your whole, I a great yeah here looks like who does it look like? He looks like a young out Bundy Pradesh and dead I'd. Yes, doesn't he will it be I as are wrong. They're they're, wrong and there's weird spit, there's too much space on yeah. It is look, I can ailing was like shares at human eyes or lie here. That's right as I these he's also now, just as I said, of course, I scroll down and then there's just a bunch of other old black,
might mugshots that are equally hoary. I greatly exceed have a good sleep tonight, Ok. So he asked pitchfork also admits to exposing himself to over a thousand women's from women's from his early teens onwards. Jeez like he was a fucking sexual, predator wow. He progressed to sexual assault and then murder. He pleased, guilty of fifteen to the mark.
A fifteen year old, Linda Man and Don Ashworth, rape and murder, and sentenced to life imprisonment becoming the first criminal do convicted of murder based on DNA evidence wow, that's the fucking first case you not ruins. I was googling that this is a wanted to write down your pay. I like there it out motherfucker. I was gonna say that as this as the introduction to this, but then as like, let save it for good calling out. I mean I'm a call for story. Tell I'm a storyteller, that's my job! Somehow I don't know how it happened here and you're. Welcome it's weird. Ok, but little Alex Jeffreys are fuckin good friend the DNA dad give inefficient. He becomes known as the Father of genetic fingerprinting and nineteen. Eighty four he's fucking knighted for his services: yeah, yes to science and technology in a psychiatric report about calling pitchfork he said to have personality disorder of psychopathic type, a come.
Made by serious psycho sexual pathology, which were alike yeah. Its warned that calling pitchfork quote will obviously continue. Do it not that I might be hanging please I am not drunk. I just wanna go Agnes, I mean. Maybe I shouldn't say that, because it makes it worse, like I'm just rusty, it's been so long needs diamond, or ever it's been forever. No! No! This is good. It's like that. First, showed me: go back onto her after months are more aware like what are we doing? How do we say things? Ok,
I can't wait to see Santiago Gray. Someone warns that the psychiatrist warns that he will quote obviously continue to be an extremely dangerous individual wine, while the Psycho pathology continues like don't let him out essentially what they're saying yes, so he sentenced I've imprisonment, as I said, but what that really means is at he has a minimum of thirty years right because it never fucking means life in prison, which everyone at the time is right. Like yea, we can go home now. Everything will be fine rife, at thirty years is reduced to twenty eight years. Two thousand and nine for quote exceptional progress, wound prison right. He hasn't expose themselves to any right, buddy and presently must be fine. Now levy on great, let's take to those years off. Doing great murderer in prison. He said to have been well behaved has got degree and speak specialist in the transom friction of printed music into Braille. So
I kind of becomes US artistic eat. I ok, who gives a shit April of twenty sixteen, so for thirty years time is so funny and that it fucking goes by Yasser one half. What's thirty years, thirty years ago, is now is now you can get out who so in for twenty. Sixteen. He appears before the parole board. They recommended that he be that he not be released, but that he be moved to an open prison. So the folks and hope in an open prison is like basically military communism security, but also you can't leave during the anger of the movie is, can you absolutely can and guess who does Collen Pitchforks right he's fifty eight years old now he's changed his name to Thorpe, so he gets to pat anonymity and is a good com. Sorry yeah pitchfork is just like you're gone straight to like that,
the canned HAM Devil S yeah, but then he got it's not fair because he gets to have anonymity. As you know, I mean yes, so, He is living in an open prison in cloud, jewish, Doktor Shire didn't look thou Anna Gloucestershire wash your share. I believe that our minds again, I think, you're right Nokia and he's been allowed alone on the streets for up to six hours. At a time before, being taken back to prison, he's been photographed and you can sucking see the photograph. He looks like sixty year old. Not that old, like a young cause, he's been endorse along Dad Neeoka. He looks like not someone, you should be afraid of right. He's been photographed on a shopping trip in Bristol City Centre. Browsing bake off books, ok age, is your favorite show is the great british bake. I think that they have a beer because he member has a baker to yes, that's right. He must love that Chechnya and
he was eating appalled, poor crawl, he's having a great old days, you're, acting like someone who has killed you teenage girls brutally right themselves, two thousand brave he It now has the right to unsupervised overnight stays in the community and they're doing this. In a way to prepare him to get out to suit and re so like he can go look for jobs, he can prepped like front place alive, he's thoroughly prepping for him to fucking. Leave. Ok, in may this last may have twenty eight in a pearl hearing was approaching, was due to take place but was cancelled after a view of the case paperwork by the Parole Board, the programme Polly read the fucking file and really oh Jesus. I don't want him near my teenage daughters, yeah well and also because it is the first time he got somebody to give blood in his right. You, you can't act like this. Isn't somebody who is like
a mastermind murders heartily who who knows that if I'm good in prison I'll be let out some day? Yes, when I'm the young enough to continue killing my leg is a feeble ninety, something Euro man here exactly right, he's he's a legit psychopath whose, like you rarely to get here, don't I mean I feel like people who who have admitted to being fucking, psychopathic murderers and and and violent ones at that who I've got to have a completely perfect record should be more like steer and more than the ones who keep fucking up in prison like you're, so good at controlling you're craziness that you can do it. How can thirty years gaps and make people believe you I just People should get out until, like your saying there, feeble essentially and that they can't do anything right. Why would you release a double murderer? Inlet essentially the prime of life heartily and let him changes name. So he can be an meanwhile
of course the families Linda and dine are fucking up in arms and so pissed off about their yes and then, of course, you in all kinds of crazy petitions in everything. Linda's, mother, calf, eastward she's, get pissed off and is fighting Collen Pitchfork being released. She's pissed off because, like the Pearl Bode Board, would mean let the whose family speak to talk. I want a piece of shit. He is it just like. Let him go on fuckin daydreams threat, they are fighting and being released or allowed back into the general public she sat CAP eastward said You can say he is a well behaved prisoner, but don't ever forget that he is a well behaved. Double child killer, yeah, which calf s she and the other family members of Linda and honour working on petitions to fight pitchfork ever being released, but he does have another pearl hearing coming up soon in the future. So the
look. I canceled was because the pearl borders, I know we're not considering yeah, because I think that that that being the Berlin at such an uproar array, a good so there's a huge our poor about it, and so it's been postponed. But it's gonna happen again: rape, but yeah. Then that is the first path, murders, a k, a the first criminal to be convicted of murder based on dna evidence. Ever amazing, while crazy, so crazy as the photo of him now said, we cannot keep an eye on Ya watch out, England, yeah yeah, that's awful I know so creepy. I feel like theirs. Those like we have now truth and sentencing laws. Meeting sentence is a working life sentence, but I dont think it. I don't think it pro active wretch. I think you backwards actor that loud where the right
their yeah. So whatever you got sentence to when you were sentenced, doesn't change. Let us for people now, which is stupid not be true. I'm just saying that. No I get it, I mean it's just that you just here and maybe because it's not as big a deal, but it's like these people get arrested for dealing pot and they stay in jail for ten years. Like all of these things, it's just an have to say this last. They just did sign in some huge legal reform bill. That's like a big deal was actually by partisan, which is unbelievable. Anything by parsons happening this country right now, but like legal, form is definitely on the dock at for a lot of people these days. Thank God, and that's just one of the things that has to be looked at its like. There are people who are incarcerated for years and years who live like
victimless crimes, and those people should be getting paroled and be putting into be put into these like these programmes run the programmes instead of prison time at all, all that stuff and then then they'll be plenty of room for double, like four serial killer: double murderers for people who plan don't see. Human life is about as valuable as their own and who do things for pleasure that are should absolutely saw happening who psychiatrist says he will do this again? Yes, let out, of course he will do it again. That's we ve all, learn that as point everyone can sing along that sign. You know, even if it's a fucking upstanding citizen now, if you dont like well- two girls, Linda and FUCK, and on don't get chances to be upstanding. Citizens Sunday in a goat fuckin, do bring
bake off, but the other thing that they never talk about. Is he not an upstanding citizens he's an upstanding prisoner for each means that he's not shaving people left right and centre right. That doesn't mean he's a good person. Yes getting along to get to go along to get along he's, making it work, so he can get out he s doing what needs to get done. Like you said, It's it's he's more devious here. It's scarier he's a psychopath here he It's the murder people, it's a potato clause, but murder. Let's act like murder is as bad as gaining way less attitude of outlets. Gray early, let's tried it in like just get that going a lot about the apple, stop fat, shaming, anymore than Ed murder. Shame Fatch, aiming at Bali, shaming, can be finally put to an outright by all of us here and
gets a murder, shame and try to add. Instead, let's go in and ceramics shave, murderers and comment on murderers, Instagram. Instead of on people who you look a little mercury in this picture, where have you been murdering during my hearing, people call our fuckin, hooray and spoken hurry time. Do you have won? I did you, I do so. Firstly, what is this now? The fucking Rachel. That's it at the same time already you can go for are well my okay, so ok, No, I have to preface it with this but ever since we lost our house. When I was sixteen years old, the bank I've lived in apartments, and rental, and just kind of had that you know nomadic apartment lifestyle and thought I always fucking went for the rest of my life and never even dreamed of anything.
Because it was possible to grant is podcast in so many ways is changed our fucking life That includes the fact that Jessica, two weeks ago, we close escrow Vincent Eye on a house where any home are for the first time and its is gorgeous. Little bungalow that at the first two times it was the first house we saw and after we looked her and I started crying because I realized that I could have it. You know yet and the second time I went there cried to. It reminds me of my Grandma House, which was like kind of my, a safe haven in between all these things happening. She died a few years ago, but I I can't believe I can't believe it. I am it's just and feel real, and I love it so much and I'm so happy, and so thanks fur
me with that everyone on behalf of everyone else, and we say you're welcome you deserve it here and he eyed. So it's so excited is really crazy. It's really fucked. It just keeps saying the events we find a house, you, I mean the bank loans it for the time being better. We we bought a house, we have a home, yeah yeah, that's numerical or illegal until the be upon pod basement replied La Anko and face my first of all. There is not suppose we basements in California says something very strange, as happened in that, however, salute where we have to have it. We bored say: let's do it like on the first night, a human behaviour that so awesome ya, think you ok, what's yours, I guess mine eye My friend rain, secular, just started at brand new podcast called the honeydew and is for the first episode, came out
his colors does Josh Adam Myers is another comic, is really funny, and so the rains the past is the crab. These Fang ransack learn J Larsson hosted the crab these four years. It's a great podcast, there's tons of hilarious people on it, and I met those guys and did that podcast twenty way right. Secular, started the Honeydew podcast, there's one episode out in it physically. He made at that, because that's that most the least popular fruit. Anybody, like that's the fruit everybody Liese on that plane, restaurants, and that he basically is like it's important, about coming on and talking about what how you are Honeydew melon in your life and basically telling legs stories or stories of rejection or law, or disappointment or whatever and basically laughing about it. Because that's canal, you can do, and he starts with his own story and I'm telling you it is a fucking unbelievable, like I hadn't
idea that's what his life is like growing up, it was awful and unbelievable. Cause he's one of the best guys like it's just under we also you're into that kind of comedy or you, like HEAT Ryan's done, he's got an album out, he's done a bunch of stuff, but if your fan or you're looking for a new podcast would like a completely different flavour. I recommend because it's really enjoyable and it's really good storytelling? But it's also very pointed at the same time it is kind of Lou my mind all over the sums that I am no listen to it. I would like the bucket up story this, yet this fucked up pretty fucked up. I will that's that then
Thanks for listening and happy twenty nineteen, let's fuckin get through this year. The other media has examined the new year and so much to come and twenty nineteen the ball rolling. Let's have fun yeah. Let's do it. Unless day, sexy and dont get murdered by my elders. What cookie
Transcript generated on 2020-01-04.