« My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

3 - Our Favorite Thirder

2016-01-31 | 🔗
In this episode, Georgia and Karen discuss the Cameron Todd Willingham arson case, the Oakland County child killings and comedian/We Watch Wrestling podcast co-host Tom Sibley shares his hometown upholstery murder story.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
this is exactly right karen yes georgia rhythm section is a female led female made action thriller starring blake lively and a fearless role as stephanie patrick than ordinary woman who must navigated dangerous new world when she assumes the identity of a spider s film is a greedy and suspense full story a female empowerment as stephanie survival hinges on her intense determination and ability to fight through her weakness issue directed by red murano and also starring dude law and sterling k brown the rhythm section is in theory january thirty first goodbye
how do we start talking about murder now here another day was pretty good you get moreover i didn't i lived through today having resolved and get murdered see that's all we want yeah that's all anyone want helping people knock at murdered over people did get today there are a lot of people here are ip those people yeah we're sorry your time ended it'll start again soon enough for that is not over yet either so right i have the right to my car enlightened dorias locks because of course it is home invasion robbery big fair mine is a really
the around here that's it that's a reasonable fear yeah makes up from when you have close by yeah that's a great thing do you know your across the whole neighbour gather nice they like me great but on the other an amicable nights ago i was thinking about how some look a bit and here i am thinking about how they could par core of the law and in valkyries adhere park or you're afraid to get murdered by spiderman mia would be well you're the one personally murders and that if the envy of burma and this is my favorite murder on georgia i'm karen let's start with a new piece of news based on merit free stuff ok so you know how carrying out one of the many ways that you can collect and present evidence is matching here follicles from the scene to the person of the murderer whenever yet turns out it's a completely bunk
science no yes and the justice department is acknowledged in the early every examiner evidently fbi forensic unit gave flawed testimony all trials in which they offered evidence against criminal dependence over more than two decades period no ninety five percent of the two hundred sixty eight trails viewed so far says that they stated forensic match a whole lee no this is human ghana because i've seen shows where they do this and i my great legit that's crazy every like every friends of files that i've seen error math right and their like pulling up those like the microscopic thing yes lids and you see the riches and you see the color it turns out in one of the cases brought to not be dog hair that day oh isn't human hair and convicted do now that in the the guy it's the atlanta child killings the got that guy
the only had him on carpet fibres fully share which ones heat that's the one where there is of tons of little kids in atlanta little black we're getting murdered and they had this guy and he is super suspicious because he was like do you wanna be a star posters all around the neighbourhood and data recording studio which is like a textbook lake personnel egg entrapment stuff or also a way to get a star a youngster arise but these kids were like getting dumped they were getting murdered and then thrown in the river so like an and then one night it was connected because one night someone was near the bridge were a kid was rolled up in carbon and dumped over long and then his car was spotted like somewhere near by and they they truck they got him on it but it was all about matching the carpet kid was
then she carpet somewhere in the home or in the car but the same here he lay there was a big piece a carpet couldn't yeah i think so i mean now as do better yes but the idea that were because such a believable piece of evidence will you know one another one is that might be father is one of my favorite ways to collect evidence besides handwriting analysis is blood spatter evidence that they might totally debunk that do you really think i feel like it yeah i guess it doesn't how do you scientifically prove those things true is for every single time which worse puts me in mind of the staircase where i all that blood spatter and i mean that was a big part that documentary was all that but but are they saying that the science of how it lands in all
a kind of stuff isn't real yeah i mean yeah there's it this we can call it scientific evidence because it's not science it's kind of like conjecture it's like yeah attic but so are when do they get to the part where they throw out owls because you can use these things to get someone to confess thing great but using it completes the only thing to convict someone that's yeah we'll but also i think it's a fascinating like the memphis west metals three where you can get stupid people to confess very easily but strong and peep and though those tactics the other thing they need to reform is like keeping people
in a room for twelve hours with no food and water and asking them the same question over and over and eventually having them just kind of go insane and want to be out of their leave the conversation yeah you convince them though they did it or not i think i'm gonna get out of there sometimes it's like maybe african didn't later yeah they tell you all these possibilities crazy it is super crate and whenever it there's some fucking crazy astute and there's a missing blonde kid and they find a long one here in his trunk wilder why was that one one hear me in there because he's a wig maker because his mother has long land air because this year i mean those exact the kind of thing where you it's late then being creepy as illegal yeah that's the problem is that that is that thing like you can't wear black shirt depending on which the country live right sir things aren't allowed cost that ties in my favorite murder today
does it really i'm an area let's do you sell each other are statement murder ok we you dont want to use that natural subway to go into your like you and i would be talking too much you have to but you know little apply gallagher i admit but all online there into my own ok as the subway in mind is that the ear he act this person had like lead that plan and like death metal ban posters on the wall so they were like his but i think it is really i'm only ninety easier so this my favorite murder is a man was tryin convicted and put to death for this martyr oh shit i might probably isn't a murder in the first place what oh my god have i not heard of this that i would that's it i would love his name is cameron todd willingham in
early nineties he busted out of his house that was engulfed in flames and his three little daughters guided i heard of the sun now it's like a big it's a big case about like the innocent proper innocence project in and an debunking the arsenal arson investor testimony that ended up being just completely boss oh no yeah so dead children high stakes we start out high stakes on this year he was fuckin budget that for this ok tax yes dumb ass so yeah he and they think that what how it really started so that the arsenal of so that they found puddles where accelerant would have been an like the ten the the outline of wearing accelerant had been you know distributed around the apartment cause or the house because burns don't happen this way and this is what fires do and hears you know we ve been studying this for years and years but that we are
go back draft rightly exactly so it turns out that the duchess bullshit and the neighbours and the firefighters not people who initially got there said that he seemed so insanely destroyed was trying to get back into the house that it couldn't goes on fire and then they later change their testimony bethia he was too upset i think it was fake i even think that at all he moved his car and then he takes it he moved as he said he moved his scars open explode and add to the fire in the cotton fire rent what movies does either i mean maybe that was so sorry would he be guilty of wanting is there a dead just like it was his wife his wife is gone at the time and he said he was sleeping and hurt his daughter say daddy and he and it was already smoke
have you smoke so he left the house with the children s trot yeah he said he tried to get to them but the fire had originated in their bedroom the children yes he couldn't get to them and he tried to go back any heartbreaking knows i was like of one mind when you started a story that just turn me hard one hears what they say probably happened my kind of consumers and believe that their they used space heaters like those things are deadly yeah all junkie space eaters let literally fire the daughter like to lay near it and fuck with it and her fuckin blankly protocol on and her cheap kmart polyester pajama yes yes wait this was the nineties yes magazine
when i was growing up those pajamas were covered in stuff that caught on fire it was a bit maybe it's america it's like anyone that's my age is is a total kind of just a walkie maria that we ve got to this point no seatbelts know you left home alone all the time you imagine having a kitten watching them fuckin run fulfil our belinda but well here's the thing it's that thing like it's the moralistic thing of oh no man it goes back to that the thing that have the certainly talked about would like no man would let his white get raped in front of her more and over it makes me want to say that of like no man leave a house where his three children are burning right but the instant to get out to live in the heat the amount of he i mean think of like the last time you could something like japan was hot you guess the panacea that
but the walls would have been like in my house is on fire i mean reading these account it sounds like it was it was already up in smoke and he came out got her breath and tried to go back and budget it was walls lots then what's the poster like the metal posters and stuff what is there was like an iron maiden poster that had a skull and cross phones on like he said tat i can he's a sociopath and here's the proof because he has a leg like a sword and a heart tat you on his arm so he is in those culture culture them and say does that mean that small that small town shit yet in the nineties and now that would be anyone if you enter intelligentsia right now to go so this whole place leaned over sameness public i have a feeling there's places in this country where you can still get that's evidence towards you being a martyr so yeah for sure
i do not know their bigger and also think of how creepy it would be if you were the fire investigator and you were walking through a burnt house and you see but because that those people there just p bull and though just civil servant so like they go in and see dead children in a room there first responders that's a huge emotional reaction they look up and see a pentagon poster or whatever the young as and they're not thinking let's not be reactionary or whatever their just human beings going this whole thing looks like living hell or look at this picture grandma let's look for a clear excellent traces and got and find them if you look or eat out a camera member how they explained away the science maybe that out dated saying something where that i was like but there was examined in the door fine yeah like lighter fluid and when this
riders came there was a barbecue grow on the porch maybe that's it got blasted often that's how the lighter fluid got there which sounds like all the fishing but must happen it all when we also it doesn't sound like they they didn't it wasn't like they're running take ship over there i read it doesn't sound like it if you have shields old hey cedars yeah the probably the rest of your house is like a lotta random paper towels in bad place right i mean oh there was a refrigerator by blocking the second door in the kitchen and others but my get used to talk all the time is my does it was around just go firemen and he would talk constantly about how stupid people were about stuff like a christmas when there they would not water there tree cover lights leave the legs on our land and peep and then an things next you old curtains or like that people don't even realize or like i'll just at the time right now to tell everybody clean out the lint trap
in your drier every time you do a load of dry every time you dry alone because that's the number one way people's houses catch on fire while you don't you pull off like that big crazy whether because it so much fun it's like right and it's like a big bang but that's how people's houses catch on our part not batteries view leave like battery out and near another one they can spark somehow together on fire is the truth of billions of euros both most like crazy way yeah i worry of its hyena will in some people don't at all that's why shit like that happens there just like you will see what happens but that's fucked up three little because each new either way the beginning his wife was like he's absolutely emerson on his side later she divorced him and kind of went back and forth between if he was innocent are guilty in the end when he was but the doubt she thought he was guilty but she won't behave on several times yeah how could you
it also it's not you didn't lose one child you lost all of your children and now there is theirs color backlash because there was a there was a prison inform him that he shares our i'm whose now who who testified that this the sarah camera unwilling guy confess to the murders but now it's coming that he actually had been like paid with money and less jail time to testify yet and yeah jailhouse tests it's also in how do you ever go no this guy's really telling the dry this time this on yes trustworthy this is it is it perfectly fine our investigation and what we need here right now and now we have the aviation i have our time one like in this article that i was reading it saw in the new yorker called trial by fire
they were saying that like his parole officer had said how nice and soon he was which i can never sociopath are the nicest most charming you'll ever me i now believe any i don't give a shit about nice nice does not qualify for anything with me because it's the easiest way to be right nice is not a big deal challenge charming and prevent my charming people yeah well they want something right i mean everybody does but like if you're gonna be agreeing to put the energy behind being charming than there's something going on is an agenda at play us if you feel like you need a please every single person that you mean when you got a fucking emotional mental issue yeah there's some governor i mean truly at the end of their giving an asshole and i don't mean that the weight limit the thing and one thing about it yeah but you know i just stand by factors thereby desert now of just like people who are self possessed
do not care what other people think or need them needs populate what other people think that's what it is like i'm gonna make you think this certain thing about me that's were that's the problem a thing but my ears me so much that i just don't never believe anyone and talent i know them well enough but i think that's the healthiest way because i remember being my twenties and getting tricked by plenty of people who i'm sure or sociopaths or deep nurses said anne you kind of eventually you learn you know you just are picking up on those signs and that's a good thing that's what we're supposed to do recession let's like lets you half martyr have half psychological analysis of how be in its all twined isn't it to tell everyone is i mean who also taking a harem right
yeah listen to us this is kind of a why how to live it's a lifestyle podcast cannot get that right with the murder thing right lifestyle deaths have decorate earmarked forty ai weiwei is to decorate your murders platters platters latter it may not be a viable lady approve up caveat but it still looks great on the wall but your hair every convention how they can't do shit about it put your carpet fibres where you maya
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my favorite merv this week is one that so i've been so excited talk about because i this was one of those ones where i went deep wikipedia one night alone and had no it was too late at night and often there are not very many friends i have that i can be like guess what guess guess what about these children that burma eight seventy asia not until i met you yeah money only people their own tax back are you what's really going so there were these murder for kids were murdered in oakland county mission and in the late seventies and they this poor case was called the open county child killings and announced back an awesome right so they found a twelve year old boy kidnapped and raped and smothered and that was the
one and then liked a week later at these i didn't write down i didn't do more super accurate how martha s heart coming after facts are thrown back and play the and also i it's all off wikipedia so you can get i m really really enjoy it for yourself first him but essentially all twelve year old children and so it goes a boy a girl a twelve year old girl was found kidnapped ray re bathed said and then shot point blank and left in this now how is the first kid killed you re a smothered smother so those are the same murderer probably well data they don't they probably didn't connect them then look i but then the third key who was an eleven year old boy who was kidnapped and so he was gone for like he disappeared
and so on say the seventh day or whatever they went on then the parents went on the news and said please you know bring him home so we can give him his favorite dinner kentucky fried chicken and you know that that they may do to personalize and next day they found his body count how many have kentucky overtook them as well rape smothered with kentucky fried chicken laughed in his belly now exactly what you didn't wanna hear mine and he was also washed the girl was his nails were trim his clothes spotless they were washed and pressed and his body was still warm when they found so that's when they knew something super terrible was happening and then the last girl what eleven and she was she disappeared now and then she was found murdered a so
girls were not sexually interfered worthy and the boys were raped yeah so that was just that was like a big thing that happen and they called the so after they got all the information they called him the baby sitter killer witches it's fucked up and almost sweet to him because the way you treated because he'd the way he well because the way he left them ass which kind of implies the way he treated them was nice except for we all know that's not true and imagine because he kept them for a while which is a lot the nightmare heart alive a lie so yeah so that horrifying so i feel i put when you're alive there some chance of escape like there's some hope left yes well while it still happening for sure but then it that thing of lake it it's the edge
goes to the total insanity in and i don't know the private i wish i knew the difference yes to probably for sure but like when you really psychotic or whatever where your keeping the thing you're going to murder let you know this is all the plan and so your keeping a child like up or whatever it's just beyond but when they started looking at the suspects that were around oakland county one the people mrs this is where i went down the home one of people that was a suspect was twenty four year old rich can and his name shit i'm not gonna find it christopher bush so his father was lake there the gm or the vice president of one
huge motor companies waited might have been gm and his father was the vice president gm or wonders once hugely rich he was always in this big mentioned by himself his parents were always liked working or on vacation wherever and there was a cop since dream of young boys coming out of the house because he was a child monster he was paying kids to come over and whatever and so he got arrested for sexual assault and child molestation several times like he was unknown pedophile those people stay because he was rich so his aid they always bought him out of jail and cleared him and whatever and try to do stephanie so they went and found him and started looking through his room and looking through all his staff and they thought that they found a picture of what the boys i think this was to be ten third one score
like a drawing of him with his hoodie on because i think they said he was found in a hoodie or something so it picture of him with the hoodie looking like you in total terror but they don't know for sure that that's who the face was but that's what he looked like and so it was like it was this from central over there never was such a small go on yeah and they are trying to put all that together but apparently is room was really messy and filled with all kinds of creepy stuff and then one of the things that they connected big apparently so that kid christopher bush of they confiscated rules film in his room and it was keep her eyes and they find out and this is the thing that stuff like this is makes me so fascinated it peaks my interest in it probably the writer and me words like this is such a good story separate from tragedy or whenever they figure out there
an island so i guess there's like an island chained up way north and the peninsula area of michigan and one of them is called north fox island ended it was empty they thought and they find out that there is christian boys camp a there's a camp saint somebody's for wayward boys on north fox island the only way to get on or off the island is by plane is one ersatz down the centre that when they go to investigate the this island ah they find out that they had set up this fake boys camp to get boys alike poor children who would sign up place like that it was like this free thing like come and we are all being used and kitty party was a sickening harm it was a kiddie porn racism when they showed up that's what was happening and
nightmare i mean like that's like that's like a friday the thirteenth freddy krueger nightmare movie rank there every which parliament you upset about the idea that these boys it would be there thinking vague to go to carry on and what that turns into and the nightmare that it would be on the island and also then when they go back as someone outside sounded out there like why when they say anything and i was like i bet you these were the kids there are probably getting kids out of juvy or in situations where they dont have their faster kids are like the most under represented in the already wayward anomalies is also exactly travel right or their paid i bet because it turns out the guide the island is this multi millionaire now that and when they busted they find out what whatever they realize this camp is there no church affiliation theirs
affiliation it's just these it's a pedophile ring that had are also been operating in like the really bad part of detroit that well now we're like kids on the street they would get kids pay them and get them into that ring and and the pay them to have sex at them and it was just this whole huge ugly thing long exploitation of poor children my shot so that that's exposed in the in me baby civil killer investigation which is amazing and then they they just i just read article that they found a man so they had all these people that they suspect and they found a man named tat lambert jean who they they got kitty on those kiddie porn charges where he was definitely involved in that that there is the risk that they busted in the bad part of detroit own
he was at the somehow definitely linked or whatever it was and then and this was a thing or a prisoner a detective from that right was out in california interviewing someone about something else and then the prisoner was like oh you're babysitter killer is all he and says it's ted lambert jean i knew him from this pedophile ring we i'll go and paid for kids in detroit essentially and this i told me he basically and into to a picture and said does not look like tim whoever the third little boy and so that that detective went back and went and they started casing this guy who is now seventy only leaves it house to go to church and data done like living like this silent old man that no one knows anything about they go into his house and they find all this evidence and he will not admit that he was the it keller but he first of all the evidence by all the
its points to that end he and they have him on all the pedophile charters and all the ring charges now that as he one of this happened wondering about two thousand five yeah so and they o o christopher bush the rich kid killed himself in nineteen seventy eight to the kind of like soon it was him because there was all that weird evidence and stuff so them ted lambert jean thing they let chronic came out of the blue are we ok with christopher bush killing and was off because he was a charm lost or do we not think that were allowed to make them a i mean we have a kind of do anything we want coming what that guy if these people can pay children to rape then we can make judgment calls on these motherfuckers like i never want to say i'm glad summons dead but it's probably for the best that this person was harassed so much by the cops it he called them
well yes because and also that you he killed them sulphur lots of other raise like in in so far as that here lived a life where this terrible thing that he a compulsory couldn't control was basically being ok his rich parents who didn't give enough of a shit about him to take any real action so is trapped in this weird world of money anyway that's also really fascinating to of lake you that's a person gets to do whatever they want because of money same as those people of the north fox island yeahs like what did that that i get those people all disappeared the guy that only island the escaped to europe polish like have lou left the island flew away and they giovanni didn't find him are extradite em honey i loved it was this island that no one thought you just take it over who's gonna fucking now right angles an entire camp there a fake church counter
yet i mean to me it like pedophiles and kiddie porn that kind of shit is the darkness he i legs they'll kill us just kill random people obviously not good idea but that car stuff you know what is wrong with the person where that's there i'm just doing the wrong thing but they are there they are doing the right thing entered and specifically to helpless people who can't make they need decisions about where you know you know can it all you don't think you do as an adult when you're kidding understand what's happening to you yeah it's it's super ugly it's like that x its exploitation is the dark the darkest yassin me it's like the closest thing to rio monsters those people are real monster kind of a bummer there too
so there were passing a seven year old and that's how well they they got him on the other charges but they can't get him they don't have enough hardy on those murders that their positive they they lie cause he also the murder stopped when he moved cleveland and when he moved it when he started going to church every day and they think that the priest their nose like they think he confessed priest in pieces and saying at tat date there's all kinds of things like that that are good cleared it was like the days he wasn't at work because the children disappeared all this does not always interesting to me or like finding out that someone had someone clock in for them nor are they have an alibi and turns out its total bullshit and here's how they now and yet so fascinating the detective work i pay so yeah and also those poor detectives lake the way your life gets affected by having to go and investigate these
i mean nothing justifies the crazy murdering that's happening on the street of most black people today in america will never see i never ever mean anything is justified in that way what i mean is it when you like as a detective when you have to visit time and again people who our deprave so it's not just crime or lay i'm desperate and on drugs and yeah i'm a fight with my wife and color yeah it's the depravity like a child rapist murderer they face to face with the actual evil thing you and i probably never wellness researchers out but these detect another word but these people have to then dealt as deep as they can into it and all the facts and not killed them so that they can be brought to justice and hasn't some jailhouse justice and just get killed terribly in rail but that's the ideal but then
he then getting even arrested is small in our campi a huge percentages of them so the even getting some and arrest it has to be hard so imagine when hiring after never having solve this case no it's terrible now and then and it ruins people's lives to go investigate this stuff and to discover this like it see me underside and i only i i served it wikipedia and was just i'm mesmer eyes by how horrifying watching cynicism of argo oh yes this is related that's not like an like anyways tell him that bad about not now then others the carbon that is went to war and is now seeing all this insane stuff at home yes and the what it meant the toll it must take on you should have gone to war and seen shit that you would never tell anyone about and then come home into that too yes which how is how it happens a lot of the time
i just started thinking about the fact that this with the whole france bombing people talking about going to war again where i was like how many we we have that many more men left that this she ravage who does think they're gonna send to war right who's gonna who's gonna get the people who are going to yeah it's our list are have already unlisted right ends and yeah and then how do you i mean there are planned people who come home and make life but they're probably people it didn't have super terrible things happen to them but they it's so bad i know there's plenty of people or just it's still a horrific experience here i love that tv show so much it's so right now this season is fucking outcome it's so cinematic gorgeous easy and i love that native american he's at all he said
very soon done stuff is i will just watch the whole thing a per day yes she's so funny and well and also that it finally came together of her and all those magazines which i never paid attention to before the stacks of machines everywhere index that she wants to escape is out it's for your leg she finally sat down at ted writer and they start at least spoiler referring as issues like buyers why have this obsession is because i'm not supposed to fucking beer yeah yeah yeah and then that that's his childhood home yes that they live in and help bucket depressing that slit your whole life in the same yes and there's some people that are happy with that and i want it yes and then if there's some people who just dream of going to california i now hungary is so much easier than it is now too like breakaway can do that secondly as you can get traced you could go unchanged or fucking identity you're probably you got there
one part where she was on the bus and i was like oh she's out of there this you were not going to see kristen dunst anyone know when she hears a thing kristen dunst is one of the most brilliant actresses of our time and no one knows i'm so i was very surprised to life for this much and when i saw her off ok here we go we'll workers i saw her and i thought oh if this can be like a quote unquote comeback thing but she every person in that cast his brilliant and she's equally broiling agri i'm proud of her
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therefore definitely ending up now i think we all should be i have tom symbolism that story oh yes that's a greatly so yeah explain your time so i think we this in our last episode but we want to hear other the stories of like me tat they grew up with her things that happen in their home town or the one like me your story you tell of right from your hometown or the thing that you now and so this was we were all at our friend map mccarthy's birthday party and georgia was smart enough to ask our friend i am simply his a comic any love of rustling as carefully as is then sent back from the faro audio pike ass we watch rustling yours said this this his home town murders
aid is sound simply my murders story is where my parents live how might say where they live with an island no new jersey and there was a guy that everyone use for their upholstery may really good couch cushions browser furniture like outdoor cushions everyone has his stuff he killed his mother s even with his mother any childer any captor like in the movies for months have no one knew where his mother was and etc etc later i came out that he had killed her and with this kind of keeping her body in the house i'm not sure i think it may have been strangulation and love and because we all everyone persons of his guy he was the
you guys are cursor my i was just sitting on those questions like a week but it was the cushions of another murder the cushions after they found out there were like while their good cushions when i listen back earlier i i is that when he said like he was there was this and there was this guy murdered his mother and you could hear me in the background frank ha i be like giving glee at the story yes that's fucking
those people who are not you'd be what the laughing and killing of my because you know what it is it's like this is the shit people walk around all day going like what you watching tv last night in the queue believe this whether it still so warm but at the end of the day people are murder ring he pull and doing extreme insane things us away the second and you said made couch cushions i started laughing because it for some reason and maybe it's because the hillside stragglers the war of them was a upholsterer early i think so i think that's why where it came from i'm not sure their upholstery has something to do with it but some about that is so sinister to me it's like like those tools that are very like violence in an upholstery and i thought it was yeah that's that's a really good one i love that everyone housewives stories and like no one ever asks them these stories yet will never tell them rate
everyone has one of these story ass in it and it just gets its like the thing that freak do you out there's always something freaky see india and other things is there anything you everything i don't know sake be nice if you go people i get murdered people you don't really know and you see in the grocery store line that suck for them and also just yourself like be excited that you're not murder enjoy yourself do what you want don't do what like your ears months telling you you have to do cause there's no have to work as you never never could have you never now this is really are you when it comes out of this is a positive part can gather or trying to lift people out there and make their vessels and cinders you lift he loved each other up by pushing down the murdered it as if to say
it's a celebration of life yeah well i'm to live a life and death
Transcript generated on 2020-01-18.