This is exactly. Why would if you were trafficked into the inner circle of a cold and saint a billion year contract at thirteen? What would you Who do this is actually happening. Is a weekly podcast from wondering that features extraordinary true stories of life, changing events told by the people who lived them followed. This is actually happening on amazon, music or wherever you go your podcast, the hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's taken care of georgia. Start heart stark! Thank you! That's black haired brown, haired karen kill Gareth. It's kind of a our joint a summer burnett. Oh yeah listener dear listener.

add on our staff meeting this morning. I did not recognize. Georgia also didn't have my glasses on, but georgia was talking and I was like who's that and it was because she had bleach blonde hair, bleached orange I'd, call it a light orange. Was it not in a good it's just for my my far away and then, but now the final process has taken place, yeah? I did my hair completely like baby pink yeah law like I had the stripes. Thank you. It's something I've always wanted to do. My hair is so dead and falling out by the clump for yeah by I love it and its committees I do more than anything, and this is really why I did it as it's going to make me put my makeup on in the morning and put something cute on cause. I just such as love lately sure this will make my skin look

sallow and weird. If I'm not dress, if you don't get ready yeah, so it's gonna make me get ready. That is why I have always hesitated like when my hair started. Doing super gray, whereafter diet every three weeks at there's been a couple people of It convinced me to do a pastel, hair, color yeah and I was like, but I wear the same black shirt and black pants or some version of that outfit, like you can't you have to support. The style yeah I mean you have to meet the hairstyle with some more style, do, you think you'll ever let your grace. Could you have beautiful silver? free like care. Do you think we need to think about a girl out, maybe but some of its a little clear so that that's when my my part starts to look like right, it's just getting wider and that the first time I noticed that I was like. Oh, my god,

It was not my heroine. It's like nope, it's just some hair silver. Some is clear. Oh my you're, just looking at scalp it's I bet we'll it'll be the most beautiful hair. Like I bet it. Would it's like what you know? see girls like nowadays, who are like twenty three and they then either her gray, like as a silver grey. you're like what are you doing in twenty years. We're gonna wish you didn't fucking have that anymore right, although I think part of that look and part of the beauty of that look is then they have like perfect skin, of course, where, if you have cracks and crevasses and yet a face like I do the egg, oh yeah, a grey haired lady, I think it is a means of ten years of the whole da. That's my until I get to that point. Wait fifteen years, ok if the plan has done it again. Let's say: let's do this podcast for fifteen more years until you're you're ready to die or a hair gray I'll be on grade by then probably so, we can ok match it up and then

it'll, be like a double reveal guy and a good bye. At the same time, a goodbye you guys are all them irrelevant. Now, it's perfect it like waits are were not now. Speaking of which I joined Tik tok, because I am not going to be on it right or anything like that, but my sister sense, So many technical areas- and I watched so many that I was like I started doing the thing where I would never download the app I just open it open the video, then close it. And then you know at two o clock in the morning: it just triggers itself some and a girl is screaming or there's like a lady robot voice going. If you want you make their best they'd take a job where you're like salads? Don't belong in mason jars, but are you fucking talking about layered tick? Tock is eight. Yes, it's a

world. I immediately was like. Oh, I see why people are addicted to the only I love it. Yes, hilarious and also there so many like cross fit looking couples, oh god, who have such bad taste in common what kind of comedy are they doing other like making fun videos and staff together, not as some people that are really like that are making great ideas doing like little scenes and bits, there's a thing that I noticed where there's people where a clip of comedy is playing and then someone record their wife laughing at work and it's always leg values

You know, when your wife does this thing in that thing and she's like and then she nor its kid. She struck she's north sea last girls here. Nor would they laugh if it doesn't sound. We owe it half the time it doesn't. I get so uncomfortable got that, like you, do your fuckin thing, but there is nothing worse than a person trying to do something to cause. They think it'll get a certain kind of response. Re writing is, you have to admit. I give you a personal done that and look we ve all done it but You have to admit that you are not write about everybody receiving york pseudo acuteness in the same way and the idea that you'd be trying to do a thing leg as if you have a catchphrase, our dragline right like ice, nor when I left now I've definite, Snorting s real, nor when you laugh is you can tell us workers. The person turns bright red causes,

not yet to be charming. Its action is actually earlier an accident. Were you sound like some of animal farm barnyard animal, a pig, a litter of I think, I'm resentful of people doing things to appear a certain wave because that's exactly why would never eaten front of people for years and years, one waste a lot of I'm in their life being self conscious and trying to make plans around that self consciousness, instead of just not being self conscious, anymore, yeah or working on the real problem, the puzzle pieces it takes to make yourself field You belong somewhere. I like your good enough, this mentor math. Am I saying the wrong? Thank you not I mean gymnastics, yarns held gymnastics and like don't even I can't even do gymnastics in red

life so that having been an issue that I knew that invented that you didn't assume that I could deal. We assume that we will have heard it by now. If you could do gymnastics, don't you think you would have been veiled that an episode. Fifty due note, I that I tumble and twirl answer You know what I'm good at that I found out recently that I'm excited to get better at is playing poor. Oh no! You I'm like a bull shark. Can you read from What like? How did you learn a fence and I were in new york and we just like it was so hot out that all we could do was go to bars to cool off.

I know how that is: that's the only place that has air conditioning in new york city. So, oh, I do go to the tenement museum. To remember. We've talked about that amazing. It was yeah, so fuckin rad, isn't that cool, it's so cool, and so we just heard of playing pool- and I just like fucking want it. I want it, but I mean: did you ever? Do it as a kid yeah anyway enough about me and being a pool shark, just watch out was there, but I'm thing. Was there like a rumpus firm at your mom's apartment, complex or something like? How did you cause it's kind of hard? in writing the leg. There's a logic to it. We were you can't buzz. Times that does Hell what we were in a bar senior prom, you weren't, you weren't, not drinking everything having an ice tee. At a bar, it was a long island, no just kidding. I would never drink those don't drink. Those kids they'll just ruin your life, your night. Well, you drink one. You think you need three, that's my problem, who event

the long island I see like a bartender just trying to get rid of the of a bunch of models like right. He's like here orange schnapps and so malibu, rum and lemons or sprite and coke in it, or no now at the. I think the mixture in there ends up tasting like coke cause. It's the combination it's like when you do all the drinks at nine eleven in europe. Chile, on top just be a matter, your spirits of love and, like he didn't say We are any kind of garnish that conferred on top of this big: hey. Can them cheese on this? Hey, hey you! do you have any thing going on your? Oh. Can I share this that I went on twitter for the first time in a long time, and I am glad I did because Ellis surname

lucky bumblebee is her name on and on twitter. Let us know it's actually pronounce bumblebee, but that's bumblebee bumblebee, let us know that we are an answer as last question on frickin trivial pursuit. I saw that what an honor I now I asked her to what I said. Is this real? Absolutely it's from trivial pursuit decades We need hand through twenty twenty addition o night now we know we're getting everyone for hanukkah this year and christmas amazing current the current trivial pursuit, witches sleep very meaningful and my family when the first version of the old school super trivial, for set aside the funniest thing. that will always remind my mom is when we would play it. She was so horrible to play games and when we would play treville pursuit, she always go every card. Every question it was read. No matter

It was a bit like the tallest waterfall in south america is and then you go out so easy. A single time. I really what he had we ve liking. Who cares like sheep because you really know them or if you like you have, but she had. She was a big reader and she was kind like a she's gonna person that wanted to be able to say. Oh, this is really easy. Yeah, like could a gun on jeopardy. Those kinds of people- yes well to a degree yeah Yet the categories are right. She could yeah yeah, I'm also. I just want to say thanks to all the people who have been idle I've, I haven't mistress and call for I would say the past five years. You will never miss a sinkhole again in your life, never again, but the most recent one that all my friends have been telling me about. Is this one? Sorry, let me get back to it. It's this

one in chile, chile, humongous and the perfect circle? which there's another one like in another country in its the in the middle of the city. So there's all kinds of buildings around it and managed. It just looks like a perfect pillar of land fell into the centre of the earth. It so crazy. At some war the world's end days, looking type of thing, it's that it feels very appropriate for the times that we're living in right out will it also, but on a on a more positive note, which you will really perhaps like or maybe even already own. I ordered this book mud large. by Malcolm Russell It's basically his history of mud larkin. Can you see these figures? I love it might marking for those who don't know is basically digging through dirt

it's like detector ring in rivers and and lakes and water places and sail, and I think specifically on the thames because they used to use The garbage can rightly so. There's like buttons from the fifteen hundred everything that he's fine, found it spent identified the year and like what it is. my tears are curling. I am so excited right because I saw it at when I was like I was like. I need new books, but yeah. I always fall asleep if it's too answers to dry, whatever their and service like picture books counts, yeah, there's more than there too there are tons of words on those words are so many words you're a reader, W counts, there's like paragraphs in here and it's like a lovely coffee table, size books of people will think

smart, and I know you can read to you when they come over. That's right. There like she is not just picture oriented she's got more to her than that YAP good job, Malcolm Russell. Thank you for being a mud, lurker and then it says hidden histories from the river. tens amazing cool. That's right! We were so close to my barking when we went to england, but then we found out you have to get up six in the morning because of the tide or whatever might get up get there at six in the morning, get there get get up at four thirty right, which everyone knows in california. Time is like two in the morning and we're not second a millstone up the eye. I kind of sat with the idea if you're gonna go it's going to smell. Like your lease favorite thing, we re in four hours, the entire time rates. Barra. Imagine you're you're. All these sacrifices that making walking along, and then you just pick up an old button with some sort of one.

Full symbol on the ends up in it. Museum. It belongs in a museum or people come to see him. Oh, I read a really good book recently, called god shot by chelsea, biker b. I e k e r and its basically this little girl, his family kind of joins or religious cults, and it's not a true story at six. But it's written really well and really beautiful and moving awesome and fucked up, because it's a call not always a highly recommended love occult story, yeah, ok! So, a long ago I told you about the other ones, which is the hilarious story about a mother and daughter who's, the husband dies, and then they find out. He has a secret family and that are like the exact opposite of them here, and it has truly one of my favorite and the most serious people Lauren soda, that plays like the penal quote: unquote, trashy sister, she so

funny and then she von finneran place her mother. That's the woman who was undoubtedly abbe like the kind of evil irish governors member she's such a good actress. So anyway, there's it. They have a season to its wonderfully satisfying. And if I need a good british comedy, I do I always use and you're so good at picking british comedies shoe did you watch the victor, Were you a secret documentary? I didn't. I heard it was really mind blow. It's really good and totally focuses on Epstein and the like connection between the you know the evil overlords at Victoria. secret and how creepy their whole company is. An allowance has its colleagues, it's called angels in the field. They must soon.

My own angels in demons- think he's a luxury where I was yours, galdeazun angels. Endearments is not down brown book I don't know that is yeah. It is a documentary, the documentary it was good. It's like you know, conspiracies and all that stuff but it's not so just like so dark and shows you like all wet what we were. It's a girl, a lotta early, two thousands like The way we ex were expected to look at that these evil people were the ones telling us that that that's how a woman just supposed to look at how a woman is but like this is ideal gap, actor Jeffrey Epstein had a big hand in it. Yeah It's very satisfying. It is to have that be being revealed now because having gone through it and doing lots of comedy about how. Basically all of these magazines must be at least partially a pedophile well rotten. What else these are! These are the bodies of ten year old boys yeah. What is happening

and then there's a part in the in the document. Or would they talk about the brand pink dressing them like children? It was supposed to be like for teens. Mistake was to look in it's like now. This is infant infantile, like costume for children and its also making people look those children's, but all the time with the word pink across the bow. Yeah creeped me out like this was So in the era when those brat stalls came out- which I know you like, that means a lot to me and please don't attack that whatever is like. That's fine, Does anyone know that I dont I in immediately? picture what the what direction my alive brats, how dare you, but my only point is up until that point. Dolls were like four. The girls to be little girl right at me. It was like here's, a doll you need to be one of the pussy

dulls get on re ever get on at seven year old girl. What you think is this the best idea. You gotta have regular body this in small that in the best of this in that and then yeah, and only then are you call six beanie babies, everyone, Jesus she's as every kid you just leave everyone else's own plea I now can you stop picking on people whose snort, when they laugh? It's none of your business. Sorry for so cute I'm sorry, I'm met durable and I read that EU one work did you watch the show about the steamers about, harry stain, an even stronger who was kidnapped as a kid there's, a fucking documentary about it. and they interview the daughter of stephen stainer, who of course was the child we ve covered that was kidnapped, YAP and then what happened Emily, which I won't spoil at you, and I now because we also talked about

harry stain area. Carry saner, I mean it is that's poor family is horrifying to think of those, the surviving family members. How sad will there be interviewed, and let me make some com in has also in it is parker louis can't lose because he played stephen saner. I know my first name is Steve there. I was a kid when that made for tv movie came out and that we saw the commercial like every day when we are watching cartoons after school aware horrifying, even the documentary is call up captive audience it. Really more about the media and how they went after the story to the detriment, if stevens mental health and his family just like terribly sad story, but it's it's really. It's really amazing yeah. That does sound good. I'm sorry! You said that was on netflix amazon hulu great. She would do little network biz before we get into this actual podcast yeah. Let's see have some exactly right. Media highlights so when wicked words this week, Kate winkler, dawson's talking with her

Her neat eaten about the lorry valor Chad day bell case in eastern idaho, ever made famous on the date line, podcast mommy doomsday and that cases I believe, still finishing up being either tried or the sentencing, but unbelievable story horrifying story, shirley yeah, but on a lighter note this week on bananas, current scotty welcome comedian and america's got talent, semifinalist, Jackie fabulous and speaking of bananas. Check out our ban down at the time for I'm full of beans. Today, our banned in shirts, leashes and others, fear, dogs and cats in the m f store at my favorite murder, dot is gov com and then So you see you guys know. Every week we record an extra hometown story. Each that's exclusive for members of the fan called its

the many many zone, so you can check those out, including all the ones from the past. However, two years we ve been doing it. If you join the fan called at again My favorite murder, dot, biz gas com, If you are an already a member, please check that out. You get some cool march when you John as well and there's like access to all kinds of fun: videos and chat rooms and now and forums and stuff. It's a fun time chat, room, yeah, aol, w w have you get on there and catfish your friends in the chat room, but I just showed my age. skip the grocery store and spend more time soaking up the summer sun with hellofresh fresh you get farm, fresh proportion, ingredients delivered right, cheer doorstep, select, meals from the taste of serious that are sure to become everyone's newspaper. It's like the old debate, shrimp and sausage boil, and family style grilled state. Let us traps, or

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where, where ever you listen, you can listen one week early and ad free by joining one to replace an apple, podcasts or the wonder iap. So we are that's it right, we're ready to start think. So! That's quick! Let's do it, let's chat, let's do it I think the reason I'm being pushy about starting- and I am first yes- is because this is a classic true crime case- I haven't covered one of these in a while hide. It makes me nervous because they're just so awful and this one is especially terrible, of course, We say that every time there all they're, all incredibly terrible and actually had a couple. People suggest this story to me. So, let's get into it. This is the murder of milly dabbler. So it's thursday afternoon march, twenty first two thousand to around three p m in surrey, county england, sally dollar sitting in her office, she's, a man

the teacher at the same school that her to teen daughters, fifteen year old, gemma and thirteen year old amanda, who they call milly attend as students. So at the end of that school day, milly stops by our moms office to ask permission to go ahead and go home early instead of waiting to catch a ride with her mother and sister. She is very common for her to take public transportation. She's been doing it for years. She's done a lot before so Sally has no issue with this, and it's not an unusual request, So it's basically that millie doesn't want to have to wait around for an hour and a half for her mom to finish up work. So she's just going to go home with her, basically her friends, so she leaves she boards a train with several of her schoolmates and they get off at wilton on thames, which is one stop before the station that is closest to Millie's house. So her and her friends get snacks at the station cafe

and then around quarter to four merely calls her dad and says she's on her way home and that she'll be there in a half an hour. She begins to short fifteen minute. Walk along station avenue in walton and is basically just a straight shot. Home she's made the trip a hundred times. Four, but sometime in the moments just after she says goodbye to her friends in broad daylight, of an order

every thursday afternoon, millie disappears without a trace, have broad daylight. The thing is so chilling, it's so scary. What you're telling me what year? This is again. Sorry, two thousand and two okay, so is millie sister gemma would later say at that very moment that millie left the station. On march twenty first, the dowler family was sent to hell. It's such a tragic story about what happens to this family in this case, and it's it's so extreme. You know, we've heard lots of bad ones, but this is one of the worst wow in terms of the emilia. So there are very close knit family bob who's. The dad is, you know a man in a house filled with what he calls sassy women, his wife Sally is

have a gardener, who is also very and fitness. They both share deep love of music and, of course, a deep love of their daughters in two thousand to milly is just coming into her own as a young woman, she's thirteen, so she very independent, sometimes even stubborn, like any teen, she loves to play the sacks of found she loves to sing and she actually she's the kind of teenage girl that tries to teach her father the choreography to hit me baby one more time. She also often leaves notes her sister jama, telling her how much she loves being her sister, so gemma and milly are really close, even for teenage Is that something is a hard a hard time. Definitely so, every single day after school. This is Hers come home. Whatever time they come home, then they go. her down in the living room and they began their ritual of watching the tv shows home way and neighbours. So on this day when

alien, gemma, finally, get home around four forty jama kits open the passenger door runs into the house calling for milly and milly doesn't answer so they just assume she's on home, yet some german or mom just figure that merely made other plans. You may be went to a friends house after school and told the father about it when she saw him, but when Sally asks Bob where milly is, he says the last he heard from her was she was leaving the station dickhead.

so they realized. That was a while ago and she should have been home by now. Yeah at first bob is annoyed, he's assuming that she, she just didn't, communicate with him, and now he can't get her on the phone, so he gets into the car and he drives that straight route. You know that she would be would have been walking, but he doesn't see her. He decides then, to stop at one of millie's friends' houses nearby, but they haven't seen her either and, of course, Bob's frustration quickly fades to concern. It's just not sitting right, so he drives back to the house and still isn't there, so they start calling hospitals to see. If something happened to her, she was an accident or something, but no one named demanded dollar has been checked in so now. The dollars incredibly worried and bob calls the surrey police, so an officer arrives at the common within minutes and ass, a series of their routine questions, basically the same ones that are meant to deter.

If they're teenage daughters are run away, asking if she's ever talk to strangers on line, if she has had any arguments for their pets, Hence our anyone lately or has been anything stressing her out, ali baba and Gemma are huddled in the same. rooms the officer trying to keep their anxiety from turning into panic, and they keep answering no to his questions. They keep trying to say no, we know her, you know or close. This isn't like her. She always comes home after school or she calls if there's a change and plans. she does not talk to strangers. On the internet- and they say there really words- something terrible happened, but the officer shares them she's, probably hiding somewhere and She'Ll- probably return before the morning, and if the death, are such a happy family she's pound to come home. So he says health check back in tomorrow.

If dollars are not having it like the second, he leaves they get to work. They basically start trying to piece together: Millie's walk home everyone's making calls to every one they can think of. That might be able to help them I just hit idea that, because someone is a runaway, they don't deserve they there they're not endanger and don't deserve to be found still right. Here I mean it's not just like they ran away. They don't want to come home. It's there. It's up its they'll come home when they come home, it's like they ran away, but their thirteen. they, though they did run away their thirteen years old and should not be, and there's two parents and a sister that are sitting there going now, this isn't a she's, nay doesn't run away. So if something did happen, we I need you to find her now and they're. Basically saying we don't have to, we don't know her and we

I know you, but we know best and don't have to work on this right. Now, it's crazy. It is, and I hopefully it's changing, because that that whole idea doesn't make sense. When we've been told time and again the first forty eight hours of a missing persons. Cases are the most important, and yet the first oftentimes between three and eight hours are delayed by people saying you have to hear. I have to hit the qualifying time yeah and if it, if you are like, I was a runaway before when I was thirteen. I was not in a safe place in like if you're running away at thirteen, it's probably not with people who are now k to be around. You know it's like you're, not saith, behind of your actual runaway right and how bout like if they are searching and running away, they might shoplift, or do some like how? How do you get the cop logic going right? Is it just blank out in this one spot where its leg get the desperate child off the street child child iled, so

emma learns that a girl nor class named cats agendas, the older sister she learns. A girl on her class saw milly walking home then afternoon, so she calls her, and cap picks up tells Gemma that she saw merely pass her bus stop just after four p m, they made eye contact, but then cat says after she got on the bus. She took a seat. She back outside, expecting to see milly and milly was gone, was as if she just evaporated into thin air. So by the next day, friday, the family or,

as an assembly at million german school to get the word out, which is also sally school. That's good! So the dollars of printed tons of missing posters with melias face on them a neighbours, friends even stranger, stopped by to grab a stack or to put them around town. There's people who are travelling for the upcoming easter holidays, so they take them to post outside of surrey county with the hopes of just getting the net spread as wide as possible. This sorry, police departments efforts certainly pale in comparison to the dollar family, a whole thirty six hours pass before police

finally released cctv footage that shows milly walking through the tape train station, the hope and releasing this is that there will be a tip coming in from the public, but the problem is that they release this footage, but they have not set up a tip line, so you just have to call the regular. Oh now, no dedicated line for four people that have information here, it'll be three days after Emily's disappearance before the police distribute a missing poster of their own and one that includes the official tipp line informations. By that point, the dollar's homemade poster has been distributed basically across england, and it has their home phone number on it because they based they had no choice here. Underserved, that's fucked up, so there's thousands of copies out there, and basically the dollar's phone rings concept.

our march twenty. Fourth millions been missing for four days and by this point, the dollars or beyond, worried. Of course, each second passes without word from their daughter and their sister or Maria leads that my point them in her direction is excruciating so they're, just hoping for any news that might point them in any direction toward milly, yeah, Sally The mother is trying her daughter cell phone constantly and at this point it's such a routine practice that basically her mailbox becomes full, so she she that happens pretty quickly and then she just kind of caused and hears the voice again. That saying the mailbox is full, but she just keeps trying just in case. You know her daughter might pick up at some point, but then this one day she calls

and instead of that automated voice, saying the mailboxes full the phone rings and rings but highly doesn't pick up, but instead of the automated message sally can leave a new message. Suddenly the mailbox is not full, so Sally can't believe it like susie, I development, something has changed, she's filled with hope. She calls friends, family telling them milly might be checking her voice mail but than ours pass than days. Nothing ever comes of it, It's basically another lead that dries up and leaves them kind of more hopeless than before. So they do stay vigilant. Its march twenty seventh, now seven days have passed and smelly was last seen in its sallies birthday and that night, the BBC runs a story on millions disappearance and that report instantly catapults. The investigation

in the dowler family into the public eye where they will end up staying for years. Oh, my god, they talk about her, this child being missing, and it's like it's over three weeks later. She goes missing and that's when it finally makes the news it's awful. So, despite the dollar's hard work, all the press attention the pleas for tips from the public, there's few leads, and then on september, eighteenth, two thousand and two one hundred and eighty three days after millie was last seen the phone rings and it's the surrey, police and they're calling to give the dollars and update investigators tell the family that remains have been found by mushroom pickers about twenty miles from where milly was last seen and there's no positive idee. Yet so, and I would like to submit that may be. This needs to change as well. How about you call when you have

the positive idee. Instead of saying we found the body you home Well done. Yes, now wait! It's it's a wonder. I mean it's like it's insane torture for these poor people. Words like they dont know for just wait until you know for a fact, there's no benefit ray. It's also, like then you're in a moment to like pray, it is that, but you know it's someone's kid pray It is our and, as an end, the guilt that comes with that and horrible there's just as section of time that doesn't need to happen like it doesn't benefit anyone. So the dollar's watch the evening news where they cover the story and the fact that this discovery could be linked to milly. That might be the one Reason that they did. It is because the police knew it was gonna, come out on the news that they wanted to warn them. That's there is that we know point counterpoint. I just proved myself wrong, but I just think like if you don't have to

if there is some way to control that news should be yeah, so the family thinks maybe it's not. Her could, of course be someone else and until the bodies identified, there's hope that she's still alive, but that doesnt. Last long, the next day the dollar's get the news that investigators have determined through dental records that those remains do in fact belong two million dollars, so the dollar's beloved

being daughter and baby sister will not come home and they find this out on bob's birthday yeah. So of course, the discovery of millions remains instantly turned this case into a murderer investigation and at the same time as this is happening, there have already been a series of gruesome attacks in surrey and southwest london, and they are also on the investigators radar. So in one of them, the victims, nineteen year old, marcia macdonell and in the other, the victim is a twenty. Two year old student from France named alma led della grosch, so both of these young women have been bludgeon to death with hammers and there about the cases the attacks happen about a year and a half apart, macdonell it in full,

be wary of two thousand and three and della garage in august of two thousand and four, and they were both attacked while walking home from the bus stop at night. So in between that in may of two thousand and four just a few months before delagrange murder. Eighteen year old, Kate Sheedy also suffered a horrific attack, but the differences. Kate Sheedy survives. Oh so she's walking home yet again from bus stop at night when she notices that a man and a white Van is watching her. So of course, cates immediately crept out and she crosses the street to basically get away from that van and as she does, the driver the Van whips around a? U turn really fast hits her with the car backs up and rolls back over. Her suddenly gets run over twice by this van, and then it speeds away and lake with what you could call superhuman strength and

courage. Kate is somehow able to call both her mother and emergency services and she ends up saving herself and surviving this horrific attack back. So it then comes out the just one day before we dollars. Disappearance and eleven year old girl named rachel Cowles is walking home from school, about two miles from the walton on term station and like milly, she was wearing her school uniform. She is like way: home from school and a man driving a red car offers her a ride. But then right as she begins like interacting with this man, a cop car drives by and this car speeds away, so the police haven't been able to can clue, simply connect this string of attacks, but the media is drawing parallels, so they're, just

all coming out. Basically so, of course, the dollars or following these cases on the news watching them unfold in real time as they're waiting to hear the surrey police tell them anything about millions case and the similarities between what happened to those victims and what they know about. Milly are not lost on them down to the fact that all of these victims have been blonde and all of the attacks have been taken place within an hour. That same train station, where milly went missing while then one day

alleys out on a run, and she sees the metropolitan police divers searching beneath a bridge, and it turns out that their searching for the discarded belongings of french student armilly delegations, so a metropolitan police detective named Colleen Sutton, has been put in charge of armies case and there isn't much evidence to start with. So he basically has his team look through any cctv footage that they can find for possible lead. So it's needle in a haystack to find something really monotonous and tedious work. But after searching two thousand hours worth of footage, they finally see something in a video captured by a buses. External camera so, they had to go through any any kind of camera that they could find. Amazing they spot a white Van park near the area where families body was found. So they instantly clock that van. They know what happen

keith she d and how she was attacked by a man driving a white van, so detective Sutton puts always energy into tracking down the driver of that white van and he and his team work obsessively for weeks, sometimes clocking out only to then go drive the streets around the area where Emily was last seen and they're finally able to narrow down the van by its make model and the years it could have been manufactured now, so they make a plea to the public for any information. And then a critical tip comes through a woman calls in saying that her violent ex boyfriend used to drive the exact same van, and she believes that he is capable of murder and she gives them name and his name is levi bellfield. So when they enter levi's house to arrest him, he tries to make a break for it by jumping onto a dresser, fully naked climbing into his own attic rolling himself up into insulation farc a hand they immediately take.

Into custody and on February twenty fifth, two thousand eight after a care investigation and a lengthy trial levi bellfield is convicted for the murders of marcia mcdonnel anomaly della grunge and for the attempted murder of cape shabby, and he received a life sentence. But investigators aren't finished because, even though levi bellfield never talks or gives the investigators really much to work with it all, they believe that he is responsible for over twenty other unsolved crimes against women, including the murder of milly dollar. So, basically, two years pass before the dollar family is told. The prosecutors have built their next case against if I belfield so in march of two thousand and ten, he is charged with milly's murder and the attempted abduction of eleven year old, rachel Cowles o, which was the day before millie went missing. There are few key pieces of evidence and though they are

We're tracking down investigators managed to link bellfield to a red car spotted on cctv. The area where milly went missing and that car matches rachel cows description of the red card driven by the man who tried to abduct her. Also, sorry, please get a huge chip from detective Colleen Sutton, while diving into bellfield record sutton sees that around the same time as milly disappearance, bellfield rented an apartment, just stay from the walton on terms station, the dollar family, as in disbelief when they learn that surrey officers had not on that apartment door, ten different times in the years since molly vanished. But whenever answered, and no one ever followed up so its logical to assume that not coming to the door, ten t

times when the cops are. There would indicate that maybe the occupant wants to avoid talking to the police for some reason: yeah they could have contacted the property's landlord to get the name of who lives there. They could have looked up if he had a record just see if he had a history of violence against women or any other obvious reason. Why he's not answering the door, but nothing was done so on. May fourth, two thousand and eleven this new trial begins, and it is the understatement of the century to call bell fields. Defense lawyers aggressive they treat the deller family with. dream callousness, particularly during excruciating cross examinations of Sally Bob and Gemma. The defence reads from million diary exposing the young woman's innermost thoughts in an attempt to use her words to paint Sally and bob as neglectful and uncaring. Parents like what the like that anything to do with this: guy, murdering her at all

Totally I don't understand what the angle is is that they that he's innocent? No, it's that it's her own fault, it's their fault, yeah! I dunno baffling baffling and horrifying horrifying. They try to paint the picture of millie as a troubled young girl stuck in an unhappy home which so here's just a couple of things that the defense did to support this bizarre and really horrifying strategy. Bellfield lawyers tell Sally that her daughter may have run away because milly believed that sally. Loved jammer more than her the is questioning causes bobbed actually break down on the stand after he is forced to talk about how he was an early suspect in his daughters, disappearance, It is basically, you have to clear the family I pretty standard and then Gemma

leaders go on to say that her cross examination was quote worse than when she was told her sisters remains were found. That's how bad it was So you re traumatized these poor fucking people who are victims, that's insane so, at the end of the trial, the jury deliberates and returned to the courtroom. Levi bellfield, not just a murderer, but a coward skips. His sentencing and britain is returned to pay, then, when the verdicts read out Sally Ann, Gemma, dollar collapse guilty on both counts and leave, I bellfield will receive an additional life sentence, which is that a first and british criminal justice history, so they just one on of like you're a horrible serial killer, and we know that yeah yeah. So after the trial bob stands on the courthouse steps and gives a statement saying that the trial had been quote,

truly mentally scarring experience on an unimaginable scale, and that quote my family has had to pay too high a price for this conviction. In July? Twenty eleven, the guardian newspaper, publishers, a bomb, shall report. It alleges that the newspaper, the news of the world's which has a tabloid, that the journalist from that tabloid illegally hacked into millions phone just days after she vanished in two thousand and two deleted messages once her inbox filled up to make space for new ones. Oh, my guide pause for a second, so they were like they hack, tat horrible. That list It smells horrible. They made room for new ones to see what they could find yeah like beating people and getting more for their stories. Oh my god, and just as a you know, and aside bar

leave that pierce morgan had something to do. He was a journalist I there at the time- and this is a new paper owned by rupert murdoch rights. So it's shouldn't be a surprise to anyone is shining eyes in the have low they can go. Well, what's really surprising is so the dollars of course remember this and they remember sally being thinking. It was like it was meaningful and it was positive when act. The news of the world journalists had been record every word of their increasingly panicked messages to their daughter, so they were trying to make a story out of it from her phone from the inside and run and listening to how those messages were. Were I mean it's so sickening? Well, what's great about this? Is the british public is absolutely discuss said,

It's not only, of course illegal, but it runs the risk of destroying invaluable evidence in the early hours of missing persons, investigation news, the world journalist actually shared some of that information that they got familiar phone with the surrey police, and so the public is not only furious at the newspaper but with the surrey police who never questioned or investigated how these journalists were able to acquire information from this missing girls phone So these revelations that were reported in the guardian reverberate around the world and usher in a conversation about british media ethics or lack thereof. People know that it isn't just the news of the world an extreme version of the cold parasitic and ruthless british tabloid culture of large. But even now, and even the fact that this is something that a lot of people you know in england and kind of it there known for it and people there are used to in this house

king of milly dollars phone is a step too far at the british public is furious and of the world owner rupert murdoch realises that the reputation of the one hundred and sixty eight year old newspaper can never recover from this scandal. He fires most of the two hundred employees and shuts the newspaper down fuck y'all, just based on this one like that. They'd probably been doing so many horrible things for so long, and this one was like the last straw. It's just beyond the pale it's beyond. I mean you can't you have to think about like what the dad had left messages and those were deleted. In I mean then the police would have thought he was lying about it united. We like it's just yeah, you're, totally tampering, but the pool this new favour on the inside. The is so dirty and ugly that it's almost like the average person in england was just like.

No like just know it's like making a tragedy, just craven- it's so god it's so disgusting, so wild in may two thousand and fifteen bob and sally get a call from surrey, police investigators and they're told that levi bellfield has finally confessed to milly's murder, which is not a huge shock to them. They have accepted the belfield murdered their daughter, but it turns out what the police aren't sharing. They basically say levis confessed, but that the details of the murder are too sensitive to share giving them the details could jeopardize other investigations and of course the dollars are furious about this, and they don't accept it so

leave I bellfield confessed, then they need to know the full extent of what he said because for ten years they ve been kept in the dark by the surrey police and they want to know anything and everything about what happened to their daughter and as their use to doing at this point they push and push over the next several days and they're, just persistent it calls they schedule, meetings at the police station and, at one point, Sally, even takes out a picture millie and laid it on the table, forcing an officer to look at her daughter. She will not take note an answer. She demands more information and the surrey police finally are forced to share details with the dollars and therefore risk. Of course. the dollars or sickened with the new wave of grief and horror formally, but they dont want to sit with this information, because each day that goes by, they know that this story could that led to the press and that then it

be this time bomb. That's waiting to go off that the press could interpret and say whatever they want. or lie. Or you know they've clearly had this horrible experience with them. So they don't trust that this is going to get treated in any decent way yeah and they want to control this narrative of of their daughter and the story of what happened to her and make sure that it's not just salacious and discussing yeah. So they also were afraid because germany, It's coming up on Gemma's wedding day and so they're afraid it's going to come out the day of their daughter's wedding. Like they're like can we please have a moment of peace, so they're just done allowing other people, the surrey police or their daughter's killer, or his horrible defense. Lawyers control the narrative anymore.

The same month may of two thousand and fifteen, the dollars write a press release outlining the details of levi bellfield confessions, so they just want to put it out there. They feel like that, might be able to allow them to start healing, and so, as is routine, they take it to the police station for review and write The dollars are ready to tell the world's about millie's final hours. The surrey police drop another bombshell that when bellfield confessed to investigators, he named an accomplice, and so they, basically they ve known this all along. They claim that potential legal issues kept them with holding the information from the family. They tell the dollars that their press release will have to wait and that the family will have to stay quiet about this confession until the investigation into the accomplice.

Is completed so their responsibility. Now, even though they are the victims like that, what a bunch of ships to be thrown at them, the family actually says later that they felt like they were being quote: drip fed poison by the surrey police. Their weight agonizing days pass. There's no updates weeks, then month. and still nothing is said about the accomplice or the case, and meanwhile the dollars are praying that the press doesn't get wind of this confession and and take it and run with it. Now it's october, two thousand and fifteen and five months have passed and there's no word. The dollars have completely lost faith in the surrey police so they do what they had to do again and again, they fight their request. A meeting with the then home secretary teresa may, who will later become prime minister, and they tell her about their concerns with this police work. They say they can't stand stay quiet about this confession any longer and secretary mace.

we shall see how she can help- and this actually works so in january of twenty sixteen, not long after germans birthday, sorry, police arrest, the alleged accomplice. Finally, Jesus now, it's not it's not great, though because they learn. Then, a couple of days later that surrey police have released this alleged accomplice. After just ten hours, they've been investigating him for half a year and he's out in ten hours, hot and the police claim that they didn't have the if evidence to press charges and that now levi bellfield is recanting his confession. So in february of two thousand and sixteen the dollars are finally able to release this the details of milly's murder to the public. They issued their statements separately from the surrey police and, unlike the series

these they spare no details. They want the public to know what happened: a million, how brutal her death was, and they want all the information out. There is horrible as it is, and it is truly horrible levi bellfield abducted, dollar from walkman terms in broad daylight, he first assaulted her at his apartment, the same one that the surrey police knock on the door of ten times before, putting her red car and driving her to another location, milly was held captive for fourteen hours, repeatedly raped and tortured before being strangle to death, and she was thirteen years old.

so for the dollars having the information out, there is a weight off their shoulders, but they're naturally worried how the press will now cover milly's death, it's understandable for them to expect traumatizing headlines for the press not to handle the information with respect or sensitivity. They're just expecting the worst, but as their statement is picked up, they're relieved because the coverage is empathetic, it's kind. It's respectful newspapers, print headlines that emphasize levi bellfield cowardice and the incompetence of the surrey police investigation wow the dollars aren't the only ones furious and bereaved over the loss of this innocent young girl. All of britain is to the decades that follow the loss of milly dowler stand as a testament to the strength of her family.

The dollars were put through absolute hell. They were kept in the dark by police. Their privacy was invaded by the press. They were publicly tormented by the defence team of a man who murdered their daughter and sister and they still managed to say together and push for justice. None of this is lost on them. They ve ex explicitly said how they had to quote fight all the way in the darkest moments of their lives in june. Twenty seventeen I'm a published her book, my sister milly, it's the culmination of her families experienced and smelly, went missing in march of two thousand and two she writes in it. The quote. If I hadn't been such a great little person. It would have been easier to let her pass, but she was exactly that great and, as the emblem she became, milly has an immense power, a use that power in the hope that telling our story will help stop other family suffering. What happened to us, and that is the horrible story of the murder

and subsequent media failure of milly dabbler wow what a twisty tourney story, let so horrible. He were not kidding me, sources for today's story are my sister milly by german dollar, the guardian article missing milly dollars. Voicemail was hacked by news of the world by nick dave and Amelia hill. Those two reporters broke that store like it would have. Never, then no one would have found out about it. I wasn't for nicht, abc Amelia hell, man, hans, the real life story behind the eye tv drama, by lauren turner for BBC his I've seen manhunt. It's a really good. It's basically a true crime doc. You drama the rest of the sources for today story or are gonna be listed in the show notes if you want to go, look at the great job telling a really sensitive story: excellent job. Thank you. While speaking

cults, gotta cruelty story. To tell you today, I'm may tell you today the story of herbal lebaron, a k the mormon manson. Do you know this one? I do now I literally recently found this out like a couple weeks ago and had never heard of that can believe it wild so as the source it isn't. It is at the centre of the see article written by brian wheeler attack. Magazine article los angeles times article by gary abrams washington, post article by Miriam verdure and a daily beast call by louis, be all, etc, etc. Shone out. Ok, first, a little history lesson and we were doing. This is alive, shout and knew tat. I would stand up as you like to do to prevent a history lesson. You'd get really answer I get really I'd like have. What's it called bored by board away

word a pointer all the things you'd be like a micro fish with an overhead projector. Oh my god. We need that new office. Let's, let's get one of those in there, so the story begins with the church of Jesus. Eyes of latter day saints, but we know, is the modern elsie s church evolved from the community's relocation to utah in eighteen, forty, six, the leadership of brigham young. At the time you ties a territory which is part of mexico as the: u S, mexico border isn't heavily controlled utah. Therefore, it isn't have much oversight from the. U S, government, which is why Brigham young moves everyone out there, so they can operate hat, have otherwise exactly a very young lives in eighteen, forty, eight, mexico seeds. You talk to the united states. However, in order for you talk to be granted statehood, the elder s has to agree to ban its practice of polygamy, a k, a multiple lives. So

the church refuses the? U s. Army can come into force the elder s out of the country and enforce u s law, so they end polygamy, because it's a terrible practice that ino turns of women and slaves. No, no! No! It's for practical reasons like becoming estate. Politics, eolid tags here, always so in eighteen. Ninety, the church officially bans polygamy and use. How becomes a state and eighty ninety six, where the practice of polygamy becomes a felony, so it is so common among men. For another fifteen years or so, but slowly they started crack down in its faded out and they also start to ex commute. anyone who continues to practice polygamy, so some of those communicated members move south to mexico. To avoid the? U s: law enforcement in one of these people is thirty.

Europe all my day or le baron and so coarse. The people who are excommunicated because they want to keep doing polygamy are the extremists and the people who are most likely to follow the quote letter of the law and in their case they think that that is polygamy. It see you're, not a mormon in their mine, unless you practice look at me well in theirs, and I'm sure this is because of some doing a show in utah. We ve talked about stuff like this no more, but it was one of the original like, as I believe, brigham young, maybe just a smith in the early days as they were developing it was, like god came to me in I get more, our wives members, so it was like it was this thing where it was a. It was like

anon in their religion, but then it was like one guy's idea of like you know what I need. Let's add this more more wives. It feels like lately, especially a lot of the mormon content that we have been given like is the like. The horrible documentary on netflix right now, keep sweet. Oh I haven't mentioned in this. Yes, keep sweet and obey is an incredible documentary about a family, that's similar, but I was just make the point that there are also some really lovely mormon family out? Isn't that are like yeah? That's the weird old verging on: that's not what we're like this isn't. Mormonism em in this z running than the name mormonism or the title, or the religion mormonism, to justify some really horrific action. So by a note, by no means are we saying that this is indicative of mormon people as a whole great, so I just want to throw that. I know I'm glad you did. It just seems like not just here, but now, where its

yeah, that's something worth it I dont identify. I don't get it at all with hasidic jews, and they don't with me either it's a completely different religion. Then the I was raised, and even though it still judaism, it's not the same thing at all. So I completely I'm glad you said that gap? This is literally about this really fucked up family, more than anything. Well, no matter what religion. You are, if you're heading down to mexico to escape the heat or the you know too much hunton human, too much interference. That's the became of every alike. What's happening, colt story, yeah. First, exactly let's go somewhere where they were, the lower the government can that their hands on our we get our wives or whatever the fuck. I don't know either from the south, but that it at a dead moves to mexico. One of these people is thirty. rob all my day or le baron. So the family is the lebaron family. L e b, a our owen, grier gray, car great car, not related in nineteen. Twenty four

moves to galiano mexico, with his two wives, eight children and his ten siblings, and he establishes a farm old colonial lebaron, where his family lives off of the land, so dies at sixty four years old in February. Nineteen. Fifty wine and the leadership of the community goes to his third oldest son, twenty seven year old jaw, which of course upsets the rest of the older brothers cause like clearly jaws, follow more responsible and less for now, I don't know they're like one on me, dad again, I that it's not relevant here, Joel appoints his younger brother, twenty six europe, of herbal moral lebaron, so herbal, which just looks like evil. So it's too much of a coincidence earning their. So he becomes a second in command of jewels and in the front of the second command and behind him is evil and herbal six foot aids,

He is a towering and imposing menacing further. they entered yet, who is like super duper fundamentalist and all the fun things that go along with it in nineteen. Fifty five jaw incorporates the community as the church of the fullness of times. They sat a salt lake city and knew tat the community grass roots. Five hundred people consisting of thirty families. They live between utah and and eighty five one hundred acre mexican beach front community. It was just they founded in nineteen. Sixty three called los molinos ah ha california. Will that sums gorgeous doesn't like they're, very lucky guy have good taste. I mean, like eighty five hundred acres, try getting that these days anywhere on the beach raised. But arrival is really enthusiastic. Let's say about recruiting local converts therein baja california, and he also embezzled,

finds meaning. There is no money to support the community he'd. He drives a gold, impala looked irving, Baron drives a gold impala this. This is a very grave. This is a rhyme. What's it called a nursery rhyme and he tries to raise money. The like smartway, which is gambling it in vegas, as you do, for real of ninety six is back in golden paula, tries to raise capital by gambling in vegas shockingly it doesn't work. This reminds me of when I was so broke at one point. You know, say, sir well years after I moved to los angeles that I heard someone that we knew a friend of ours. Their dad was a professional gambler and I was Maybe, if I give him my last three hundred dollars, he can win and yeah money to make ran. Please, sir, the kind of planning I was willing to do. I understand that I tried to sell clothing and crowded

our after they tell me what my clothing was actually worth when I was no. No. This is vintage man, nothing more that man and also like the when the girl, a buffalo changes folding stuff and putting it in the no pile think reading your diary. It's like someone reading your diary in front of you. She might as well just be whispering you're gross the whole time yeah. And then like to feel jaime pile that they say yes sooner like you, can get sixteen dollars and store creditor eleven dollars cash o. Clearly that happened I might, but I have a serious drug addiction, has taught me, but iceland money bars in clubs on long island. I sees plea I do whatever I want. Yours was to come in and save me. I get higher rank as my friend and I share a log ionized he every week. I believe, that's true are expensive. They are so much so he keeps losing

families money and, in the meantime, his family is rapidly expanding as a shock to no one. He has thirteen wives, including under age girls who are forced to marry him because, under father more than fifty children, total even more growth. Also, how if you wanna jackpot in vegas, you still couldn't afford fifty capsule it like you, just open your own public school. What are you talking about? Yeah yeah? That's really just attacking his his logic! Well, yeah! That's it to do that. So in nineteen, seventy jaw, the elder brother leader, hasn't had had enough of arrivals, insubordination and scheming and he ex communicates his brother herbal. So a few other families to say break away to follow herbal- and he starts at church in San diego called the church of the land of god- or the church of them- I am a god for doing the southern. Forget it. If we're going to insist too,

given an insulting southern people. Yes yeah, let's just get them all on mormon southern people were going to insult. You can. I just say this. One thing that I saw on tiktok was: do you know the rednecks and the the assumption that rednecks are republican or conservative or whatever? I just watched a tick tock, where this guy explained that that is actually from minors and its because they used to wear red kerchiefs around there. Now and minors are the people there who started the labour movement. That's roma, technically and historically, rednecks are progressives just one Another way of socialists, I love it. I'm going to learn at things through tiktok. He believes in the antiquated former elders doctrine not only polygamy his into, but is also into something of blood atonement which sound. Like a cup brothers movie. This basically means that

Anyone committing a sin must die to be spiritually cleansed and secure their place in the afterlife, basically be let me do you a favor. You are on the wrong track I kill you. Congratulations in your walk. You gotta go to Heaven. I mean they really should track down where who's who started blood, atonement. Yeah like the Oji serial killer of history. well, there's so much of this and these stories, including the one that we just mention, the stay, sweet documentary that it's really just the people in charge constantly sang. I got oh, I gotta talk to god. I talked to god like when someone says they talked about it's, never gonna be like and they said to give all our money away. You're a

be kind to your wife and children. It's never going to be that it's going to be these people who are in control, who say stuff like that because it doesn't it's not true, it doesn't work and that culti thing of I mean we've told so many cold stories. But it's like that idea of a group of people trusting the person. saying talk to god. Last night: here's the newest here's the job or specific what you guys! What do you do? We know there is all the good things that they do. I try to keep people believing its nuts, and this is what that is either of you know this mean cut this out, but is blood atonement like the threats like you might have to do that, or is that a positive to the cult people bloody Tillman is a threat to whoever tries to get out of

the cult or the you know, religion. Let's say it is a dispute, a doctorate in the history of mormonism, under which the atonement of Jesus does not redeem an eternal sin to atone for an eternal send. The sinner should be killed in a way that allows his blood to be shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering. So he does not become a son of perdition and that is via wikipedia got it okay. So I think it is more about the person being killed, so he humid it is, but it sounds like it's it's about the person in charge. That's like he. You actually tried to rise up against me. Now there will be blood exactly yes, so they even get into the kingdom of Heaven be out. You're welcome. This basically means that anyone committing a sin must die to be spiritually clans book. I had a right there and their here there place in the afterlife. Look at that and he makes it known that anyone who fails to set him as the rightful head of the original church that is being run by his brother he's like now, I'm in charge,

disagree. You are going to be bloody toned. There shall be obligatory, got it and then or of those like hey, and I have some one great to go at the top of the list. How about my brother, George, who excommunicated me oh yeah, he's he's just like I have happen to have a list of my pocket. It turns out I've been thinking about this, so august twenty eight nineteen seventy two fifty year old jaw and his fourteen year old son Ivan drive to the house of a church member in sonata mexico. They think they're going to collect a car, while even the sun waits outside too of arrivals henchmen, Joel inside the house, I've been seized, the men burst out of the house and rhine, and so he goes into the house and finds his father's lifeless body on the floor in a pool of blood jaw had been savagely beaten with a chair and then shot twice in the head, so blood atonement number one

So naturals out of the way so herbals like well now I gotta take over right. This is great for me, but that doesn't happen because instead herbals forty two year old brother verlyn takes over these I'm sorry these names are. It feels like you're trying to make me giggle a little bit. Every every name is less likely than the last one. You say: they're they're, like almost biblical. Oh, but with like a couple letters switched with, but they just keep sticking rs and vs in the middle of everything and feels like they don't smell it like they say it either. Yeah, it's really hard for me. Typical typical arrival goes on the run after the murder of his brother, Joe all, but four months later turns himself in to the mexican police.

He is found guilty of jewels murder in February banks in seventy four he's forty nine years old at this point, but then in eighteen, seventy five, the verdict is overturned there in mexico on a technicality and he's released. Many people suspect the court officials have been bribed for this to happen with money and actually at the affected. I read a couple in a couple places that that day, got in good with l chapel and the sinner lower cartel wise. They were living in mexico with a lot of the times and unlike doing business with them like a lot of stolen cars and trying to money that way, and so there was some if agreement or some kind of shared that is done, generous and scary. Like that's intent, yeah for her, I so evil is still intent on taking over that original firstborn church of his father's. So he decides,

get rid of his other brother verlyn who's. Now in charge, your favorite name, hmm he's like a cult leader where he gets people to do his bidding, which is why it's called the mormon Manson. So he gets some of his church members, sixteen year old, greener and her older brothers, twenty two year old mark and eighteen year, old dwayne, he tells them that god has told him the loss Lena community must be destroyed and berlin must die and thus to those three young people. two intimidated and too afraid of herbal to refuse, and so on the night of december, twenty sixth eighteen, seventy four, the shut off the siblings drive to LOS malino armed with high powered weapons. Ok, listen! I think that this is They take molotov cocktails and throw them into the house and when the people running out of the house, it's on fire, they start shooting oof holds two people are killed,

thirteen are injured? However, Berlin had been hiding out and nicaragua the times of he doesn't die so he's alive, urville super pissed about that which is like do you? Should it on some planning and checking? And yet, if you make a phone call, like whose there, how is my coming onto my brother, knows where the main guy with a vienna, his name in it in others like the second, the third junior and there on the same name. So, but herbal is arrested for orchestrating the raid, but here released again due to lack of evidence. So some of arrivals followers. Luckily because comfortable with it what's going on and they start talking about reporting him to the police. They become uncomfortable with people getting like running fire is being mode dounia there like wait. A second hold on if tell you thirty wives, yes, well, you know people being murdered is pretty bad. Ok, it's very

So I am one of those people is a thirty five year old mother of five name, naomi than its finances, which is one of the siblings. So when we'll finds out with no emmy is planning, he assigns his tenth wife, plexus, tenth wife out of the line up. Eighty four year old, vonder white rwanda, we want a who is ideal. That may be used under. It sounds like it's, your letting a girl beetle guitarist of your band violent as dead the devil, horns with her hand all the time. The hundred is their avanti shepherd. I think that's what I'm that's the name, I'm looking for them. The eighties at nice, Is it any wonder why which is like such like? That is a rock n roll name. She choose gum all the time like she's, that she'd used it in her sleep, Mccain, doubled but william or peppermint yeah. I think it's like I'm a bubble, gum flavoured gun. Ok, grouse does make me fucking, not us.

I met snaps, like you, make a little bubbles with your teeth when they, when they give you that the polish at at their dentist, without asking what you want Indeed, the bubble gum one night. The literally makes me sick. I've never had a if you've never had bubblegum flavored, not bubblegum, but I did have that polish in that super gritty. One yeah I one time when I was like seven or eight asked my dentist. If I could buy that because I loved it, I loved how it felt afterward so much that I was cannot. I brown was the greatest kindness best with the softest hands and I was like when I suppose I can. I have some of that. It's can, I get another store at even he started laughing is like nope, only it's good to know that was that was your first foray into buying drugs. I think testing it out. Fuck that shit man get some fucking sea salt crank it up and put

in some olive oil rub. The c o got a foliate. Those teeth I've been chasing that gritty gritty experience ever since, and so vonda is a friend who's. The tenth wife of verbal is a friend of no emmys and herbals like take. What's up, take her out because she's trying to escape with her five kids so in january nineteen, seventy five vonder takes no emmi for just a quick drive up to a canyon in the foothills of the san Pedro mountains, where she shoes No, I mean dead and buried her in a shallow grave and her body has never been found. William, though this because people admitted to things later, mother of five societal and february nineteen. Fifty five fifth, now fifty year old herbal marries his thirteenth wife, who was involved in trying to help kill and so you, like you, did this thing so now. I'm in a merry lucky you, but by the time,

they marry herbal has already been sexually abusing rina for four years yeah. So it's it's a lot of that evil in a rate and molestation of its children. This is what happens when there is no oversight into what religious groups and courts are doing well and also when people are using that car it's the power of god is other thing that wants me to be doing this thing. So let me do it

I want it like the it's never enough. So then it just keeps getting more extreme right. It. It's horrible yeah, but not all of arrivals. Wives, decide to stay with him as time passes. Some make the brave decision to leave mexico and take their children back to united states to safety. Urville finds out that one of his members- thirty six year old dean vast, which definitely sounds like a fake name, vest vs, ie dean, vest dean's a good name. I think dean vests is kind of a hilarious name if you were alike in divests. If you are young, you words, a bell hop, I see a big it's a seventy has as yet been gold belt buckle. Yeah, you know, like I love polygamy, written on it at sean. It re entirely so dean vest third, so he finds out that this duty investors, considering leaving the church so herbal, tells his

six months. Pregnant wife vonda at this point bond was pregnant to take care of him so vonda and her kids, who live out in national city, south of san diego, where dean visits, often so vonda, finds him and shoots him three times with a thirty, eight revolver and she and her kids. flee to denver. Colorado herbal has relocated with his followers, so super evil, so they move back. They moved back to this yeah they're. Not there are moving constantly because it's so clear what that everyone's after them, the feds are after them, what they're doing is their onto them, they're, just murdering the left and right yeah minutes insanity have it so. in Denver herbal opens an appliance repair business and he ordered his flock, including the children to work and paid for sixteen hours shifts every

except urville is living in poverty at this point in overcrowded accommodations and they are dumpster diving to find food. What? Meanwhile, the business is flourishing course because it doesn't have to pay for fuckin labour and if anyone questions earth all about like why this is happening there beaten. So there's a lot of physical abuse going on is well within eighteen months. The business is so sesar that herbal opens similar stores around the country in April nineteen. Seventy seven herbal seventeen year old daughter Becky, is three months pregnant with her second child right, yeah, he's right to delete the community and she wants to go to mexico to raise her children she's unhappy with what our There is doing and she's considering going this police before she can go to mexico, schumann. To go to denver where her one of her younger son is. I think they liked to separate them the parents or the mom baby you, so they can come acute,

under control easier, at least that's what happened in stay, sweep the dark gallery. So herbal tells her that two of his sons will. I've heard again were no problem. Oh, but just outside Dallas, the men pull the car over and they strangle Becky in the back seat before putting her body in the trunk of a car. Again, her bodies never found so the seventeen year old, his three months pregnant with her second child and just at the thought of leaving an going somewhere safe too, to raise her children in a safe place, isn't gets her murdered yeah. So then herbal has his sites on this, this other dude name. Rulon Allred he's a chiropractor homeopath, and he's a well known leader of the apostolic is an apostolic apostolic united brethren and herbals pest, because he

is stealing converts and embezzling funds in his mind and so on. May ten, nineteen, seventy seven earls wife, rina, and her stepdaughter ramona above nineteen years old, lock into ruins, clinic and salt lake city wearing disguises, they shoot rule and six times with twenty five caliber pistol. But the gun is traced to rina, but please can locate her. However herbals first wife, delphinus contacts, law enforcement, like I'm fucking over this, she turns in rina, saying she's, hiding out mexico, so at risk. his trial in march, nineteen? Seventy nine, the now twenty one year old who's. Also pregnant is found not guilty of murder based on insufficient evidence, so they just keep getting away with these hits their heads they're a fucking mafia. You know wonder- and I am not trying to be cuter any- I honestly wonder if them working with the sinhala cartel they picked up like this. Is here's what we do to intimidate people in

and doing what we want or like yeah. It could have been a vice versa. But to me a lot of that stuff seems like mafia gangster, like heavy duty, hitman shit and it's classic stuff too. It's like Charles manson. You know, depending on what you believe, never killed. Anyone. I mean he dead, but in these stories in the things that they went to prison, for he wasn't even fucking there right. You learn. These tactics that work really well and it's very easy to turn those into religious. You know into religions quota and you think you're doing it for god and you you convince people who believe in god, but eventually you you convince them your guy right. That's that's the story very every its leg, it starts out. I hears I've got this message. Gee I talked to last night, I'm your yoga teacher, but also, and then to truly a year later. It's like do bidding. I am god yeah! That's why you're, not you shouldn't believe anything at all, except tiktok.

ray Tik tok dances. When are we going to have a my favorite murder? Tiktok dance account noticed too much pressure and also, where old, oh yeah, I go on there and start to understand he's a current truly alongside here pink, my hair is people might actually Enola Y y. You might convince some people that yours still seventy, I'm a millennia bait by six months. I'm alone I'm a millennium get me out of his way There are there's the millennium, my suit where, where no fire it so hard to be in the fucking world. These days they really a goddamn stories and tiktok and mike encroaching age of a wrinkle above my lips. That can't be covered anymore again called photons true, but I might just have to do the full face. Well, its highly recommend something from the bat man why it's like here's, my new fifty and you can't see about employing all of this

my face backwards. Carrington see we're there. You know a great now think and you can hack like this time about as an argument for they still don't leave my how vital gets their lips to company a huge ones where we so, despite rina, acquit all sheet Vessels to the crime thirteen years later in her memoir the blood cabinet. Oh great name and shame spain's, how herbal manipulated and brainwashed his followers and carrying out his instructions without question, and these are really young people to that are carrying these out. It's not the like, sixty something year olds who are killing people. These are like teenagers. Twenty authorities, you just said at one point: described to women as being a woman, a nineteen year old and her stepdaughter, who was also ninety his step daughter. Oh

I did say I did say that I corrected myself, but yes, that would be so creepy, but I'm all I'm saying is in that the mom was the same age as the daughter right. That's pretty intense, like yes, that's a good point, but also think about that. These people that the very young people this is they grew up in the older ones. Remember it before, when, when herbals father was in charge and probably wasn't as insane right, but these in out you're sixteen, it's all you ve ever fucking known as this extremism. Yes insane colts and they convince you that We want an else in the outside world as against you and anyone who doesn't believe what you believe is again. You and your actually doing them a favour by killing them and

you re a better, a better you, no child died by carrying these things out to so much. It's hardly like it's hard to blame these children for doing the nodes. Its everything they ve been told a lie, and that is the kind of thing people cannot exe right hand like expect people to just go. Oh you're right everything. I know to be true as false that as your brain breaking yeah, it's that's, that's the whole call like I felt mentality of society today, and the thing were saying in america is truly like people can't be talk down off that mega wall, because, basically saying you ve been lied to re, write and its two again, it's too late, because you ve done things that you will regret. If you stop believing what you believe in hand these people to our kids,

they're, killing people who decide to leave this congregation. So what are they gonna see? Like this is too much for me, I'm out of here you just killed someone for saying the same. Fucking thing you can do you guys know? No, your knowledge is pure panic and fear all the time right terrifying. So meanwhile, herbal is evading authorities by moving between san, diego salt lake city, in the mountain south of mexico city, in maine nineteen. Seventy nine, the now fear, herbal hands himself into mexican bullies and his extradited to united states to face trial for ordering ruins murder. So, finally, his caught in nineteen eighty he's convicted and sentence a life where his reign of power and murder comes to an end. Kid and come to an end. He is in prison for life, but during his imprisonment, Urville writes a link. The document entitled the book of the new covenants and which he directs his followers to carry out.

Blood, atonement on space unspecified individuals in what is essentially a hit list, what's the somehow, he is able to give that information to someone. His targets include the shit spread- brothers, eddie, Marston and Dan Jordan, who have at this point left church. Meanwhile, the fbi catches up with thirty nine you're old, vonder way over the murder of dean vast, so they get her and nineteen eighty she's convicted and sentenced to life in prison, and then, on august, sixteen nineteen, eighty one, fifty six world herbal is found dead in his cell, after suppose is suffering a heart attack, but apparently note is found in his cell. That says I've gone to meet my maker, which makes some people believe, obviously that has taken his own life like he pride and write them. The middle of fucking, heart attack, re true and then bizarrely,

at the very same day in mexico city, his brother verlyn, who he couldn't kill because he was in nicaragua, is involved in a car accident and dies as well. So some people think that berlin that car accident was actually ahead yeah, but it's never proven. Okay, so now that arrivals dead, his reign of power and murder comes to an end, just kidding it does is for real for real. I have three more pages. Oh, she is so even though herbals dad his devotees are committed to following through on his fractions after his death herbals tyrannical twenty year old son heaver assumes leader lip He d be. Are he ber is how how it's written? It would be hard if you are trying to write names. This weird you, it would take you away.

Yeah. It's like, let's get one that I know of the letters and they all makes sense together. It's not like there mixing up letters, but I dont understand how to pronounce that. It's almost like Putting normal names on abuse paper like pull to lead, her name footsie rounds, watch them to the name of a fixed. Once you right now, being a junior, the second and third, the fourth then just take some letters and thousand legged. Let's make let's play of mad mad lives with these names and see what we can get in every adjectives, the and every man every noun isn't so this twenty year old son becomes the tyrannical leader which is about everyone wants in life, is to be led by a twenty year old names. Fiber, name haber and subjugate the families illicit activities under the radar hebrew. Bribes, mexican authorities, by trafficking his sisters and wives in return for protection,

good. So god, like we always hear about things. Women are just pawns and and like cattle to be owned. God damn during this time, herbals fifth and twelfth wives. He got that are those on your bingo card am tracking them logically have less than twelve yeah. There are forty two year old, lorna and fifty four year old, Yolanda, their murdered and separate incidents, and thereby you're never found either and nineteen. Eighty seven khyber takes those remaining wives and teenage children to the? U s, to survive financially, they establish an auto theft ring. She doesn't sound very mormon to me no ceiling for wheeled drives and selling them in mexico for up to ten grand a p so they basically to start a fuckin, a new, a new crime, business, yeah yeah and continue to say their mormon when hebrew,

is up in custody over a texas robbery. His nineteen year old brother aaron steps up to run the church. So now we've got a nineteen year old in charge k when nineteen year old, aaron orchestrates a highly coordinated plan to kill the shineth brothers and Eddy Marston, hoo, hoo, excommunicated themselves from the church, and so twenty four year old huber, his sister cynthia patricia Natasha step rather douglas our allow and seventeen year old brother richard go to texas, where the intended victims live and at four p m in houston on june, twenty, seventh nineteen, eighty eight they execute there, and thirty. Two year old, dwayne shineth and his eight year old daughter, jennifer, are shot and killed after being lured to an empty house. So these are ruthless killers. Has their lake

mad dog yeah, the amount of killing that is happening here so much and in the name of fundamentalists, mormonism em. So then, simultaneously at the exact same time, dwayne thirty six year old brother mark is shot multiple times in his office, so they go to these three locations to kill these three different people and then in irving, two hundred miles away. Thirty three old eddie has gone down next to a pickup truck and get because at the time of day, these killings occur. The media dabs the crimes, the four o clock, murders and who often out creepy rate like they all happened. Simultaneous I just I don't know why. I find that so lake. A calculated it means there is a plan right had to discuss the plan. Re old, multiple people were

the plan is also very scary and kind of lake. There's the hills have eyes quality to it. Have like it's five family member showing up to kill re. Everyone agrees that we should kill these people yeah. It's just horrifying. It is the following week: huber cynthia douglas and patricia arrested in a motel in phoenix arizona, their arrested for car theft, but the police search the rooms in they find in disguise is loaded weapons and newspaper articles about the murders. It's not enough evidence to make any arrests for the murders, but of course they are on eight hours of four years later and me. Ninety ninety two cynthia one of the murderers in prison. In order that charges tells authorities shall provide information about her siblings involvement in the murders in exchange for immunity. So she said

do it for immunities on january. Ninety. Ninety three: she testified against all of them at their trials, which is pretty incredible, Natasha doesn't go to trial because she's been murdered herself and late. Ninety ninety one, possibly at errands orders because he believed she straying from the teachings of the church Twenty six year old jacqueline is indicted because, on the run now twenty nine year old, Khyber twenty seven years, tricia and thirty one year old, douglas her all acquitted of murder but convicted unwitnessed hampering and sentenced to life in federal prison. Without for all which is funding, a project would have got a lesser sentence for murder, which is infuriating twenty one year old richer and makes a political and a sentenced to five years, because he was seventeen when the murders occurred and even though herbal has been dead for over ten years. By this point, the media debs, the mormon manson. I mean it couldn't be more accurate overview, absolve us down with it the feels so long confusing there. So many names you're talking about a fair,

leave em filled with murderers. It's like beyond reason is that I never fucking heard of this. I haven't either in june nineteen eighty seven twenty nine year old aaron is found guilty of racketeering, racketeering, conspiracy, conspiracy to violate the civil rights of the victims and a sentence to forty five years in prison Jaclyn. Finally, insured by the f b. I she pleads guilty to conspiracy. She sentenced to three years in prison. It's like they cause. They can't find those bodies they just have to get them on a technicality, essentially exactly exactly not much is known today that either church or their leadership structure, some kind of secret hush hush. For many years, the le baron family and other former members of arrivals church remained in hiding, but in twenty twenty, the utah legislature to criminalize polygamy between consenting adults, the offence becomes a third degree felony and it still punishable by present time, but its hope that the change in legislate and brings polygamy out into the open can essentially, when you criminalize something like sex work or polygamy.

Then the victims of crimes in those you know and are afraid to come forward. So by taking it up by taking being prosecuted and going to prison off the table, then the victims can come forward and and feel safe. So that's just that totally makes sense I think it's by eliminating the secrecy. Women who want to leave can do so as well and they can have help and also that so they can report any abuse that is occurring as well and not be afraid of prosecution. So in recent years, Utah arizona have stepped up their efforts to enforce laws and fundamentalists communities where child abuse, domestic violence, trafficking and exploitation are suspected to occur. Hence that amazing documentary watched in her twenty seventeen memoir herbals dog, anna le baron who escaped when she was thirteen

all that she knew that at fourteen she was going to be married off, and so this brave bad ass woman escaped to go with the Chenault family who were murdered at while she was staying with them. incredible story of how she like was able to escape, which is such a rare thing at thirteen. where, without her mom wasn't even escaping with her, she was just like out the corral, so her memoirs called the polygamous daughter so check that out. If your interested she told the BBC article this, when you are so convince Someone is right that you are willing to do anything, and even if you disagree, if you are so afraid to voice their disagreement, and you just go and do it that's the ultimate control and he had that people did what he said to their own detriment, even from the grave he was able to control people and their. actions, and that is the story of the mormon manson urville le baron. I mean,

really is insane amount of power to be dead and have people still do like conducting your business for you, it's unbelievable and also there's a whole podcast called deliver us from earth. which the second great and eyes in her re. That's a recent podcast and then there's a book by Sally Denton called the colony and that's about the room in the massacre of women and children who are mormon fundamentalists in mexico. That happened recently where their cars were burnt, and I think she talks a lot about the fundamentalists, lebaron tribe as well so check that out wow, it's called the colony. It's so weird to hear something here about a story that huge that scary, that, like all over the place, Never ever heard about it before will soon with yours. I never heard about yours either I mean well, that's another, and to our spanish specialty. Just for you serve that was shut down,

Last year we love you, it's so nice that you still us into this when we ve been doing it like this for sixty per maxie again Matthew, you ve, never gotten really aversion. And don't get murdered by Elvis. You want cookie This has been an exactly right. Production are senior producer, is Hannah kyle frightened our producers all hundred cap. This episode was engineered and mixed by stephen re morris arrest, teachers are merrimac class and and gemma harris email, your home towns and fucking rays to my favorite murder at gmail dot com. the show an instagram and facebook at my favorite murder and twitter at my fave murder, get lost

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