« My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

78 - The Freshest Recording

2017-07-20 | 🔗

On this week's My Favorite Murder, Karen and Georgia cover the survival story of an Austin, Texas woman named Ellen and the case of the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is exactly right. Sarah but people like other beeping to stop there's, no beeping, George and weeds hard breakdown and Georgia hears beeping. Do you the sound of a baby crying! Mrs none and four for a new beeper burn in brain were bringing back deeper, ease, prayers! Are you a doctor,
or a drug dealer already play on tv? Then you need to see the earth or are you having an affair and unique way for you earn affair person to contact you? What was the affair? What was the thing of lake some kind of a four one one, but for hook up now, yeah what it is like into exiting hook up when I beeper Oh I do so now when I reserve emergency room and turn now never have, of course, not you're. Scaring me I'm simply lack out drunk at a bar, and I told them I deeper guys. I've gotta go my daddy's calling one of my hey, look on my face and I welcome the murdered. That's Dooryard starts Karen Caldera, we're here to read to you and tell you to crime stories from all around the nation and world and more and then some and then more and then
after that. Have a teaspoon more hits. The morning we ve. Never regarded in the morning. This is so weird I had to say work late last night everybody gotta adjust to my needs, so we're supposed to record last night I called and said I'm still at work. Then Georgia has actually been into this idea, for I feel yeah you morning positive about Ray just as fun impression, like deference in I mean like recording in a different place, it feels like a field trip without going anywhere, yes school as new again for us yeah. Now it can really learn and it lets me drink whisky in the morning. Finally, as I can't whose Picasso whisky as in its natural- but let me just- I just need to put this out here if you or any of your friends or drinking whisky morning, that was
the end stage for me right before I was hospital, I what you're joking around bad eggs. I fear I eleven thirty year in the clear yeah I always like to know if it's IDA weakening its not branch, although this is like was what's weird, is that this is going to come out later today. Everyone listening on Thursday. This is this morning. Are you fucking, beetle that'll be low tat same day, ass aimed first time same day this the freshest, reintegrating we, then I thought I was out of town on Tuesday and Monday. We couldn't record, like we usually do. Thank you like Georgia, then a lot to me that people knowingly patronising yeah, That's very nice of you to mention I didn't even realise that Georgia's Why was that trip by the way to tell the people what you are doing? I fuck him how this crazy experience, oxygen, hand,
they're gonna have us. Instead, it was just me available and I was like fuckin Haliae oxygen strain, the true crime network. This is not a plague, they didnt pay me to do it actually just trying to tell a story. I really had an incredible time that they have this special called the jury speaks the jury. Thank you. You're well, go my area rather than early, and I've only had bullet cup. You only have to use other whisky suffer, so the jury speaks inside of this panel for fur press, where I interviewed four of the jury members who are on these like high profile cases where they were really fucking, controversial handling route kind of ruin. These jurors lives for awhile, because I said of blaming the justice system that, let me know, George Zimmermann go. They blame the jury's for voting, the way that they were told to, though, which is, if you have reasonable doubt and then asked a question like it beaten, epoch everything you know now, would you ve differently and these people were. So
they were just normal people who were very affected by these trials by what happened to them afterwards, ass his you not be this one woman who is on the George Zimmermann trial was just such oh shit, This was so emotionally raw and wonderful, and I really really she really touched me sounds like a good show. I would love to watch that I watch shit. It's I you know your I am so sick of the adjustments and trial I've seen every fucking thing about it. All this is from the jury's perspective, it's all into regional ever seen anything of, and they explain why they voted the way they voted, which everyone's like either fuck, you? You know you're so Michael Jackson case freely I feel like people more foggy with the nineties and now, especially because those two things that came out recently everyone's like oh yeah, I get it I'm starting to get it as like, a White America, I'm starting to understand what all the things I didn't know. Better I'd never opened my eyes to before we're about here and how unfair it is: yeah,
yeah, really interesting. So that's what I was that's great and with my back Did you get your hair? Did I got my nails and toes said like what about? Were you in that make up chair him? Saying that's my now on anything now for this. I wasn't. It wasn't recorded unfortunate, his eye. The first time in my life headed lead, panel Homesick alive panel. It was a panel for press has like fifty sixty people in the room, the row press and I like so when you got sequestered in Athens and then that the person who made the show is near The glass who remember Is there inside addition, Bondwoman Nancy Glass, yeah, she's, a fucking, bad ass, and she was on the panel and she's just been she's. One Emmy is she's, just incredible broadcaster, so so, where to be sitting there interviewing her, how likely you should be issued Incredible, and so she made it suggested. It's great
so called really good time. It doesn't mean she picked you to be the the person I don't know I don't think so, but she pretended to know who I am I was honoured. I took a photo with her just really waiting ass she's, just a long time crime investigative journalism, journalists hosting I was just Two tonnes are awesome. First class first So the way there are shake on my time I didn't later than the other. Haven't you heard me? Oh, I'm just sitting in office for eleven hours a day talking about what, characters may or may not do in their lives and why method could be symbolic or any meaningful in any way to other people, and it just conversation after conversation and by the time I leave. I dont want to speak a little bit. Anybody else I ve eaten a zone.
Traitor, Jos, snacks, yeah. I had a really rough but first class first wave aiming at the one thing I did want to mention, and we ve gotten tons of tweets about is the fact that they idead a unknown victim of John Wayne. Gayle Hautala County sheriff just made this announcement. Of course we got one thousand tweeds about it, which I love. The funniest thing is now all the tweets are. Did you already get that an order? I know you already saw this, but just in case we thank you, mom, India, so just really quick, if you haven't read a Navy articles which you problem cannot today some glad we're according to their yeah, so they said so there's eight I unidentified victims and at a time when they found these bodies, it was nineteen. Seventy six. No sorry it was nineteen. Seventy eight
they found the bodies I believe ray. I dont have the seventy eight seventy nine yeah, but so eight run identified in they couldn't do anything about it because they didn't. They, of course, obviously didn't have the forensics that we have today and they kept jawbone, but they so that if people came forward dental records, so creepy yeah then like Sutton. It wasn't mental, wasn't a thing let it is today, which is like you, take your kids immediately, so everyone had dental records back then that's exactly right and that's so this identified victim Jimmy Hopkinson he was sixteen years old when he was murdered by John Wayne, Gayle Baby and his mother actually went to Chicago in nineteen. Seventy nine to to find out if hurt, missing son was one of the victims, but because she didn't have dental records, they couldn't tell anything they stared no way of knowing anything, but they have continued to as these these there. You know.
Romania remains that they have and the cool thing is so thirty nine years later and Hawkins and nephew sees that there still testing remains so he encourages his leave. It was his aunts, his father to do give the DNA, so they could test it. Now, you safely luck and murdering of use just like enough track. My uncle down, wouldn't you be so fascinated had missing uncle, who suspect was suspected to have been at at sixteen you, and I would be, I think, most people listening would be like I'm an attractive down that some people would be like. This is too hard for my family that they don't wanna talk about it, yeah it's in its also when it's just a missing child that, yes, that's, I mean so sad they just no answer you don't do you want an answer cause then it's like it's there. The period on the sentence:
like maybe her walk through the door some day or maybe see now yarly wanting to know that it's over and that this monster John Wayne Gacy, is the reason an like. His mom. Let him move to Chicago to like start a new life, and then they said right that he called her on the August death, turn it this morning when he got there are many got there and they think maybe the same day. Catherine re will. That was all I said was that was the lash ever heard of him. So is like very soon after I say I love the way that he really underlined the fact that his family loved him his family had been searching for him. This was not you know it that thing they always do not always do, but sometimes do the story with victims, which is the hits. You know the Hitchhiker who didn't care about their life play the runaway who
it doesn't matter what happened to them anyway, this x worker, who I mean, who really cares as its another victim arts like he really was underlining. This is a family who missed their child their sixteen year old boy, thirty nine years, I don't mind if I look around like when I said that they didn't want to know that I don't know that's true or not. No you're just sing, the possibilities of people, probably then the grief, then you have to like them. That's The engraving primeval learn how to compartmentalize this anyways. I dont know if no one else now never lost someone like that. So the I'm too speculating gap. All this shows us I speculation the speculation, that's a lie out as the quote or the like saying you call it or someone called it.
Vague postulate ATLAS of Egg Postulate Assembly like serious, vague postulating. That's why we're we're just talk and sincere vague postulate, something or that's fucked up and I'm glad, and then the creepy his part to me was that they could tell when it happened based on that's like stacking of the body, o re like what number victim he was yeah yeah, I'm sorry can you hold on once again. We are trying to break in or clean, probably clean, but why would the or the kittens doing something which it on the Jews sums? Cleaning ethically do there ever know Look at that fucking discuss how. Why will you be? How do you get up there? Maybe maybe there's something going up the same building. I will keep us keep this end to get someone trying to break into my fuckin house right now
last thing they gave up your signature. I shudder was the humming bird ass, the knowing no words kill me That's how I bring us who immediately yesterday stack the bodies and that's he stack them by like when he got them each like buried them on top of each other, so they can be like he died this time were this year because the we know the body underneath him went away and liked disappeared on this day and the one on top of him disappear on this say so yeah making is not creepy when its visualize. That makes me so sad for these kids, the visual, if that is what Lake spark right, my what the hell is going on in this actual whirl. That's exactly yeah, with a bearing on the body is the dietary eyeing, a diagram of where the bodies were buried in the house and to me
a child's mind? I thought he'd buried them in the wall. Yes, I didn't make sense to me that it was under me, so I was just like because I knew my parents were telling me. I kiss my parents always be like will tell you later will tell you in which nothing make sure no more, I mean, and they tell you that for real, and so that was one of the ones. Anyway, it's it makes me happy that there still working the way they are for this there's something to about that. That's very heartening to me. Can we go back to the EU? give me an answer: what time drinking whisky answer? to care now have to go. On behalf of my colleague care and Syrian. Take that I know you don't you noted. Is it not time of day it's there
need. Why, and am you think it's ok when it's not a choice, because it moves to a point where it's not a choice anymore and especially when you're. At that point, I was only drinking whisky only so my friends would we made it a bar people get around to be, I would have a shot of Jamieson. I would be done before. Everybody, of course, is not my much smaller and I would be shots of whisky until I was trying to kick the bouncer emissions, the for no reason party central, Party Karam Party Times anyways, so eleven o clock at greater emblem fifteen? If, at that point I remember taking a bottle. Jamesons are the top, refrigerator this
How can I woke up in the morning like it was how me and as I drink like just took a swing it thinking. This is very bad. You knew then you, but you are like LA stops and I'll stop doing less, but today is not that. I know I know you know too, as I knew his bad nine new. I should stop, but I also knew I could not stop. I now have scary, it was horrible. I'm sorry I Thank you congratulation unless he beckoned dead and you did well to do for you. Didn't I'm so impressed that you did that. Thank you. Someone who drinks mean. Look. I highly recommend seizures there very upsetting their mysterious. I tried one at like twelve Gabriel shot at twelve. Wasn't me I mean they're not for everybody. I learned how to cedar twelve for what my brother. I think that my brother and I both had one seizure like around that age and then never again, it might
then your brain growth spurt, because kids have them when their seven who they haven't. I am babies if they fevers sometime yeah, sometimes when your seven, sometimes when you're forty every seven years, when your brain grows than like a hormone release, and I have been worth like playing sucker all day, Pelleas dehydrated Hannah had lights. This is an interesting I hadn't my sleep, which isn't so as to actually be a seizure, I have all my Rattray they are seizures. Did I tell you of sharing the Tsar young? I was showing a bunk bed with my sister, I started shaking Thank God wish around the time she ran into my mom German said we're really under the simpsons at the time, and she said mom Georgia's having a cow,
darling younger eyes, probably your mind what the Jews and I miss my whole rhyme ambulance himself up about. Ok, you're out on that grey, it's kind of weird like fun, like you'd, think on as events Steven Reign Morris. Keeps giving us presents Well, now we get him nothing. I you just pull that out of the anvil belittle, but an icy veto. You see the age ass. This must have cost soon sent an invoice here. You go it's your story, but here you go. Everyone goes in the dark Joseph Longbows echoes in the darkness, everybody. This is the story, but can video Cosette he track down its Peter Cody, Robert Lows, yes stockard, Channing telling. The story of William Brad old patches called him. During the autumn. Prince of awe.
What was his name December as of all the principal patches, missing children with the second level statue in the forest, still guy a class it such a cool, it s like it lets it's such a vhf that I remember from my childhood. I mean it's in perfect condition. Somebody really held onto that type. Somebody really somebody dusted their vhf shelf every day. What makes me sad is like what happened to them that day we were able to get this if they saved at that long. They died in their parents, furthers kiss, siblings or like sell it on Ebay. So all dad's VHF us is. How can I go fuck and dark all the time I've ever go party? Now, let's do the therapy another four other choices. The heron lengthening heralding are holding our hand up with five fingers. Every time you think of something? That's upsetting that you think is the truth. Somebody's some, those working on the side of your house. Ok, that's
like a weird fire. No, it sounded like oh Eloise, make early new year's eve. She ok, so you hold up there, This is the rule of sex religion Look, I know the rule six hour. Ok, so number one is the negative thought. So your leg someone died and that's why we have the vehement I'd see only reason you have a view which I kind of enjoy postulating weren't way. While worse case, you is explore the worse chaos. So then the five is like: maybe they had a wonderful life with wonderful family. Maybe there actually done had- and maybe they were happy to- let this move on to someone else. Stephen tell us the background of you buying. This did someone sanity oars lake?
spend it on Ebay, but though the person sent a letter handsome theirs in its as dear customer, please, no, I upgraded in bold at my cost. Your vs ordered a first class, and now I'm gonna consider you a first class customer graduation media mail. I consider too slow. I also mailed it in a padded mailer with free delivery. Confirmation hope you have. I hope I have urged your five star feedback you have and yet, if not, please message man how to improve king, you, Karen with an I e care care and great job Karen, am speaking a great job, and this isn't a present, that's not from me, and then I want to read the letter because it is his homeward arena. The letter made me cry nice, but it's really self serving because it's because of something I said are the core issue. Is that ok, I feel like that's that's. This is gas, ok
so that it had I care and order. Stephenses sisters are huge fan, sending you a thing, but I never expected to, but I want to share with you a very personal way in which you, your approach of the pond, cast, inspired and motivated me. Can I just say one thing: what
You're gonna be a letter. That's like slightly self congratulatory. You can't skiff through the beginning, but if you did it, do you love me dead? It's ok! Well, Rita! No! No! No! No! I wasn't there are so it does look long actual. In an earlier episode, Georgia was making a t shirt corner, Update Karen mentioned how impressed she was see. This is so Dick by Georgia, tenacity and follow through on actually making the shirts or reality and cause member. I was like you, don't have to be perfect. Just fucking do thing. Yes, which is my motto who raise. Georgia went to express how she just doesn't let the fear of messing up or not being perfect, told her back. She continued expend a theory that people who make a quality work often don't even start much less finnish. Making things because they are so hung up on b and perfection of your failing they bought moment. This described me. I went to school for design. Currently organ the design industry have been terrified of creating personal passion projects for fear that they will turn out quote perfect.
Gumption, unwillingness to start t shirts and this podcast, despite things than always being perfect, no shit so encouraging to me. With the mindset of fact perfection. I successfully created a little bit of jewelry for you guys and all the other marinas out there when who want one and say the tiny envelopes and pass them on to you, an Stephen you get when you, even though we are, and we will find forty a solid fourteen care, gold, Marino script necklaces. My first Florina making jewellery and Niger is gripped, figured out how to three percent said scraps from old, shout cresting place, made prototypes than lovingly put each one together by hand their design and made a New York city. You guys get there
first three, because you inspired and I want to say thank you- I have allowed they really proud. I made them. Thank you, offer pursuing what you love and for being authentic and illiteracy. My sisters and I wish you all the best happiness and success Stephanie of this sisters. Gambling industry gamble. You can get it it's at sea, the sisters gamble Gm Bialy, P S, Stephen, if you're in a necklaces and what I know you could rocket alongside the stash hell, yeah Yoyo, Stephen you, you look so nineteen seventy Bio, because its goal in a dual Chaz live love, lab, listen, shave. Your chest, tearing to a mustache Yes, you do. You know, that's really lovely, and that makes me really happy Cosette. So true, yeah, just fucking do you wanna do you'll improve later Amy really made me really tear up and proud of us yeah just because ice are. Thus we we must not. Forget the acted it it's funny
those ideas that seemed kind of simple for me. They're, like just TED talks that I watched. It's like you got, the Bernay brown vulnerability, TED Talk, watch that and then there can be bunch of other ones that are like action, ruining shared burning creativity this that nothing you can like there's all philosophy of life that you can discover that Maybe so thank you Stephanie thanks. We got it let's see my aunt turn actually turn Richard speck into the police. Maybe we can save these for Helen towns. I work with trust, Tricia Malay, who hate me persons, aunt churches and Richard Samantha go to the world that went to high school with him. That saw him in the town and country centre that we're Angle C Mon Sacramento Richards. Was the one who killed all the nurses and oh shit right, I'm thinking richer chase. Oh, is that right
Richard Chase was the creepy Sacramento faces the Sacramento them the vampire and year? That's returns that we should look at. This is sort of current seven, Mimi and Elvis, but we should also give a shout out to him. The person major you that crossed edge of the dogs, right, and I want to say right now, but Elvis is that the doctors, because we have a new kid named daddy, and she got out the sick, and I love this new kitten very much, but if she kills Elvis, I'm gonna fucking lose my how dissolve as Georgia he's got to be thirteen his America
I hope my I hope my subject. Land grab your attention. You guys are the best. They make my our lunch Chicago can meet so much more bearable. I've gotten countless friends and family members hooked until listening by telling them that Mary, Vincent and Sarah Brady Stories, but anyway onto my answering my aunt, is Cathy O Connor and she was a nurse at county hospital in nineteen. Sixty six should always talked about this case when I was younger, but I never realized how much a connection she actually had. I started reading the book, the crime of the century, which is about the Richard Spect murders and he killed with a bunch of nurses and that nurse he went into the nurses like Darwin and in one woman survived by hiding in the chapter where they talk about him, trying to kill himself and then getting admitted to the hospital. I see my ants name when I saw her name. I immediately went to talk to her and she told me the real skip she was there that treated him when he came to the e r that night in every report, you're gonna see it says that leave or I Smith was the one who saw his tattoo and learn at the police. But after talking with my aunt, this week was actually her that notified. That noticed.
Tat you on issues from a picture in the newspaper. She then told Leroy and he alerted the police. Yet and since this was nineteen, sixty six and my aunt is a woman. She didn't get any of the credit down with the patriarch. Am I right up now? You guys know the real story all announced by because speck was captured and was sentenced to life in prison, but it still pretty crazy story and connection. Thank you guys for this amazing podcast. Honestly, mainly, moreover, just I'm just like congratulating myself. This hot its honest. It made me more aware as a person and out alone, next immunize ensure cargo hit me up and we can do a ghost tour or you can talk to my bad ass aunt, much love, so sexy don't get murdered. Mary K, everyone in Chicago, wants to give us a go store. I love. It must be a thing work as they have ages homes. They have so many models like mobs. All that our own stuff won't listen. We're gonna need some others that we got the hometown, murder episodes or the many sense basically are for those of you. Don't listen. So yeah clearly
We have to do. We have so much catch happy man, but I know I feel it would not time because we, We also I Maybe we should do we should do next week too, we have to talk about the hour Kelly Sex CALL, abstract and heavily it's crazy, because I read the buzz the bus guitar called this morning, it's so much it there's so much detail like it'll. Take us, let's talk about it! Next, we ok, I have like a listener things. I've been meaning to talk about, but by the outline is especially interesting, because what really freaking me out is our Kelly. Touring. He is even though he was he, so he was acquitted for fourteen council child porn here, Mary eight thousand a year when she was fourteen and he was likes twenty some. Thirty seven. Then there was a song called ages, just a number which is like no that's not true, but also when you start reading these accounts and the way he's, keeping and controlling these women,
it's unbelievable and he's just any like on Fallon any like. Why are we being in someone's funny video whenever they kill? Okay with these people, Chris Brown and one that I know it stated, but I want to call them mother fucker out. Why does he still have a career after beating the shit reanimate reanimates, because when you make people money, the people who get paid because of being made money figure out a way to make it ok, yeah and that's what so much of show businesses ends. And because people haven't had a voice before and what a lot like there was a reporter at a really tragic that was like this story proves that the young black women do not matter in this country, which is really true, and it's a thing that you know we come up against all the time when you're in talking about true crime, this issue of of the grace of the victim and how that story gets treated, is a huge problem and we are learning as we go, but it is it's nothing that we. You know
like we're just doing our best right, but it is it's. It's a problem on this level. It's a problem, obviously in the regular media. It's how we the story, gets presented where you go well, this thing happened, but it's ok and their ngos great. It's! Ok, you don't call you don't question your immediate thinking, your immediate snap judgments, which I think what we need to start paying attention to like. What's my snap judgments young, then questioning that yes cause? That's my internal bias, yeah! That's why you you're not ignorant, is you think for yourself and then, try to keep on think air not shut down, not say not fuckin absorb or what is called take on. Whatever is being fuckin screamed at me. I just like swallow whenever the story on CNN is over, but like actually try to get up then ass the world and our best should we get to the murder. I think we said okay. Karen? Are you hiring? Yes,
What are you looking to Morgan? Tell me at this point. I am eating really yeah and I want to let you know, because I know your hiring that you can post your job to find the best care that's zip, recruiter, dot, com really yeah. Tell me something about zip recruiter. While the zipper Carter you can post your job at two hundred plus job sites with just one click and then their powerful technology. Can see, matches the right people with to your job. Karen better than any one else. I mean this is amazing, because the zebra quarter is really different than the other job sites. I've been looking out to higher. Somebody to come. Take my old, couch away, other unlike other jobs like zebra Critter, doesn't depend on candidates, finding you it finds them. In fact, over he presented jobs posted on zip recruiter, get a qualified candidate in just
if farmers, candidate candidate, that's like a big time jobs, not my little tests on animals but a real job while he suddenly to candidate. I do actually well so right now you can find out ways it procurator has been used by businesses of all sizes to find the most qualified jobs candidate. As we said The immediate results right now are listeners composed jobs, unzip recruiter for free. That's. Why free just zebra critter dot com, slash favour that Sippar, critter dot com, slash favour it. One more time, try to get it to go for free if I close, lash cave Now a twitter account.
It- keeps track now went first, I gotta admit the person Mazato. Meanwhile, did you make it seem in no way, unlike I'm busy, swift, so much of their other bullshit that you guys make we do, and I did use it to look like a nice, we're hiring them instead of you now that's cruel. Who is it me? I go first, So, as we all know, when I'm working and I'm in the middle and in a mix and I have don't have a ton of time to do my homework. What do I do? I like We tell you my favorite, I survived episode, that's great, ok get gosh. No, we stop for a minute Karen, I didn't need you go outside and take notes. There's what's amazing to me so this one I remembered and we ve actually talked about it very lightly on the poor, but it's My favorites and
I went to re watch it so I could just base I'm all. The information is from this. This woman, whose it's her story, I'm taking it, Equally from the I survived episode is basically I give your driving I'm telling you and I survive right. You don't have to watch egg. Is that's exactly what I'm what everything I'm talking about? I got from the show. I try to watch it actually recently and it's hard it's hard and it's fucked up yeah. I guess so I haven't watched a lot of these are what I love about it is it. Is it electrifies me with people sitting there telling this thing We only talk talk about our fifth hands the hours so far away so distant, become made. No answer that extending gonna have the explanation of the victim because they're dead in most cases, yeah- and these are people who got through it and turned around and we're like this happened to me. It's not my fault. I might add that journalists- I'm not a you, know, I'm like yours, what I did after here and it's amazing and their eighty percent women. It's
and the women who are on it. I would say eighty percent were raped in some way and left for dead in some way. Then there's some man. It was like when I took my tractor out what there was one really. When I watch downy episode, I watched there was a guy who was in Haiti after yes and there was an earthquake and he was trapped in the hotel elevator that fell upon him for like eighty. Something hours yeah and it was incredible yeah, but he was there to fuck and help people. So it's not like he was like I hiked into the forest and am looking there's a last stories are important re, but it's it's in staying to watch. If you're interested watch me you'll see the difference of somebody. That's like Helen to my pride, which states that they should make two shows on one of them. Is these stories of getting lost in, beyond your boat, whenever an earthquakes in the other should be its, I kind of paying tribute
two to women who have been men who have been attacked and right up again. Well I mean they can do what they want. As you know, is they keep doing it? So I have many things to rely upon not to talk down like Libya, localism okay. So this is what an amazing about this is its season two episode. Ten of I survived it's the same episode as our friend Sarah Brady, who was pregnant. My mom got attacked by the french fake pregnant girl. This away move s episode. You ve ever seen the best episode, my favorite, my favorite girl. Will this woman is on the same episode is her. That's insane I was thrilled. Grey was like a star cited for me, so this is. This is Ellen Halbert story. Ok, this takes place outside of Austin Texas in an affluent area, I guess in the hills in nineteen eighty six September, nineteen eighty six, so
Ellen Halbert, is in her forties, she's, a wife and mother she's. Having a run of the mill morning, she's reading the paper, she's drinking coffee in peace and quiet, her husband is out for the day golfing and her son is at school. So you know eventually decides to go upstairs and take a shower to get ready for her day. She does. She takes a shower and when she it's out of the shower sugar the towel Rhapsode around her she's walking over to the closet to get a robe when she noticed something in the corner? Oh and what's in the corner, is a five eleven man standing holding then she says the largest nice he's ever seen up above his head arrests like a ninja again you yeah
like you, we like this. My brain isn't work ass. She said she laughed out loud because she couldn't every euro that he said she thought it was a joke, couldn't think what was happening, I am, chills re now. Yes, it's like see a ghost yes, but like So it's happening where you know. Sometimes I get. I have like those weird floaters in my eyes whereabouts, on like that, a cat like I'm giving a seizure care Caesar we're just like some weird thing passes in your eyeliner. Would definitely you don't turn your hair and expect to see as a huge cat standing there sure what I mean but level embody. You expect to see like earlier, and I might have she didn't, expect anything giant see anything out of a car. I she's just get now the shower regular day. Ok horrifying that Ireland is gasping and art's. Also his.
This ninja outfit. If you're not familiar, I every part of his body was covered. It was black pants black shirt. Wrap it only his eyes are exposed. Karate, uniform, plus ahead its karate plus right he's, also wearing gloves just eyes and a knife. Now, basically, in the corner of her bathroom programme, he screams get on the floor. And comes out her and they started, as she says, in the episode tussle, which is the cutest and also reminds me of them, the out of sight with Jane oh and George that seen in the bathroom those guys anyhow, so he pushes or into the bedroom and he back cancer and knocks or under the ground. She gets he does it again.
Gets up again and sits on the edge of the bed and because she's she says she has use basically naked, except for this towel. She pulls her knees up you her chest to like try to get covered and as small as she can and he walks over and drag the knife across her feet, and he said I just want you to know that my knives are much sharper than yours, did he caught her feet just kind. I was like threatening her. It says she said dragged across so it announced. So I would, I think she take yeah you're right. He doesn't look down and close your eyes and not to look at them, and then she doesn't. He takes his mask off his mask off his face and wrapped around her head as blindfold. And then he says it's a shame. You can't see me I'm black and half white and I'm a very handsome man, What a weird power move: yeah, that's for sure
He starts asking how much money she has. She offers to drive him to the bank. She says, shall give you shall give him everything she has in the bank. You know she's bargaining. Obviously she says. Let me write you a check I'll give you everything. I have says to her you're gonna have a bad accident, lady, yeah yields and IFOR Throat. He binds her ankles and her hands behind her back. And I must also say that if someone either lets, you see them when there can you or says to you what they look like and then I would be like oh shit, I'm not getting away from this to identify him. That's right! Yeah now, yeah I think that's very realistic manner, so he's arts, to explain to her what deal is and basically says that he's been hiding in her attic for to day.
So he knows that the husband is golfing all day. Nine knows that the sun has gone all day. He knows no one's coming for her. He knows it. How can I get interrupted and Then he says I'm going to rape you. She begs for mercy as a christian woman. He says it doesn't matter what he does to hurt, has no one's ever gonna catch him, so he says, get back on the bed and then He rapes her and when he's down he goes and takes a shower, and he puts his ninja suit back on now So she now is so scared that he's gonna kill her. She doesn't try to move, she doesn't hurt to escape. He cuts her, The part he pulls off the blindfold he shows her a check that he's taken out of her purse that he's written out to the amount of six hundred dollars and then, he tells her to write his name on the Czech, Troy Eugene Wigley. He gave her tell me to write on the jack. What
faster. She writes it then he says to lay on the floor in the bathroom, the fetal position and she does and she says she feels right side or had explode and what's happy as he's hit her in the head with a hammer hours I ll ain't married, so grows, she feels her head explode. Yeah, that's so scripture and she doesn't know. What's going on. Obviously like that's it hang on that show that freaks mounted the time people get shot in the head and they're sitting there telling a story completely. Regular like it, you are, and they ve been shot in the head and when they describe it, it's that thing where that cause. You don't know what happened right. It's like all the sudden there was a weird le sound in my ear like the way the the personal expire that's. Why I'm obsessed with our personal experience of it? I don't think I really understand, and especially with the show is too is like I dont comprehend, being blindfolded and how specific
scary. That might be like. I dont think about that power in a worthy ike. You actually are not aware of any thing in your life going on and all you have are your thoughts write to you experience it. I don't think you know like beer. That sounds I mean it. I need to put my often that position and think about it or you I mean you ve got official obligated to put my mice myself in these victims shoes. So I can more or less I mean it's about empathy, but it just two It's also just medically fascinating, like you, would think if somebody got hit, if you got hit in Heaven, hammer intentionally survive that now and people do people survives all kinds of shit? Yes, fucking, crazy, ok, so then he stabbed her in the left. Rest I'll love!
The answer in the had again stabs her twice and back of the neck. Gonna get worse don't worry it? Then he tries to await your son. You stop sipping coffee exam spit everywhere. He's tries to establish the skull but the night. Don't go in here. So he hammers that night I into her Eric. I can't do this. It's the things that advances in the other room listening to this time is horrified by there's no way doesn't heavier buds is available at lecture on your right. She's got those had London, but this is the thing about an egg. I won't say it again. This is the nineteenth time I said it, it's her telling the story. I know I know that one going then he hammered them. Even do my skull merit in that part of it were it's a person who went through this and came out the other side. Jesus Lenny,
unless they know I'm here, I'm DR within the knife out. It won't come out so here showing her at around in your hand, movement just now. Ok he's he's trying to get it out, events puts his foot on her head to pull the knife out. She confessed he feels all this, but then she started to go out of conscious Annesley, I'm I'm kind of getting a little. Was it right now like I'm sweating, a little sven, visible, so she's going in into consciousness. She doesn't know where he is. She looks Into the bedroom any standing there with the end, she doesn't have the it ninja open any more. Any screams put your head back down so she stops moving she's like and he comes and he pulls her wedding rings off so she's like he's gonna, kill me there, it's freezing cold she's lost so much blood but she knows he's gonna kill me since she has to do something. So
he works at once. He pulls those rings off. He leaves and she doesn't know where he is, but she decides she has it. This whole time she's been in bathroom, yeah she's. I have to get out of here, so she pulls herself along around out of the bathroom through the bedroom. Pushes herself down a flight of stairs Latin, get downstairs to the phone, oh, my god, and she gets to the phone. She the what drove me insane when I watch this for the first time she called her parents know, but I dont know if it's, because it was nineteen. Eighty six you so maybe the name on one system wasn't in place, mainly literally yeah. Maybe it was like a so rule, or maybe your brain just wasn't functioning rightly, and they only phone number they could come to her was her her family slick childhood home. That would make perfect sense. I remember Minster
oh you did area to share her. Now, don't call it can you believe you are proud to know our own. I know that we give our social security number ok basically she goes out of conscience is for a little while the next time she remembers anything. She heard her father screaming he he came in with the empties, so they offer. Under a kind of together they loaded and she hears too I'm tease talking over her, how she's not gonna, make it all in her head. She's like I am to going to make it she that's when she like turned back yeah girl did so awesome and she's is based. They like this man is not gonna. Take my life, for me is not happy, is amazing so They didn't get her to the hospital. She has so many stab wounds. She
it's over six hundred stitches. Oh my, I think. In the end she ended up. She he's down to earth. Over thirty times he was eighteen years old tree Wigley was arrested at the bank trying to catch the Cheshire forced her to write to him he's convict. Aggravated robbery is sentenced to life in prison. Thank God yeah I do I looked up his name. I looked up her. I looked up a bunch of stuff to try to find out what that was about here, as it sounds like one of those things where, if they didn't have evidence here or there they were just trying to get him on something that blah blah blah, but to me it so insane if she's been stabbed multiple time MIA. Why? aggravated robbery as what he actually gets convicted on re cause. Attempted murder. Reason isn't treated,
Murder, it's not murder right that we have not treated as Marta Nil. Put that drive me crazy. I know, but it's not. I know they have to be two different thing. I know I'm in they just do, but She makes a full recovery. It takes her years of pain and hard work. She said she's not a lot of time in denial about what happened to her. She spent crying, obviously Who? Wouldn't shit, multiple surgeries for all of her wounds. She D a lot of stress related illnesses that lasted for years because of the trauma her mare, crumbled. She was left without a job or money, but she determined to come out. On the other side stronger when an amazing woman, so she realizes she has to get help. So she gets counselling and she joined a victim. Support grew amazing and she decides that her first goal. Does she s a set goals for herself, so she can recover like she has to make it a step by step process. So her first
she's gonna, release all the rage and anger that she has about what happened to her ass. She, realized, that's that's how she's gonna get better for herself and then she starts to speak out for victims rights and what needs to change in what are? What is what she calls? Are offender focused criminal, justice system, in eighteen, ninety one she's appointed by then governor and return to serve on the Texas Board of Criminal justice, and she did it six year only show it was an unpaid position. So while she was there, she started it and it went from part time to full time and then she just started doing all kinds of research. On that access criminal justice system on victims rights on rehabilitation for prisoners as opposed to just punitive throw up. The lack of control energy
eighteen, eighty six, both the Texas Corrections, Association and the Texas Crime victim Clearing House established awards in her name to read, NICE, her work on behalf of crime victims. Has ever tireless advocacy for rehabilitation of offenders and her education to the victims, rights in nineteen. Eighty four, I have five hundred bed female substance abuse treatment even unit was named after her eye nineteen. Eighty seven she one national crime, victims Service award, the highest federal award; first, as to victims in ninety nine, she was named one of Texas as women of this century holy shit and in two thousand, when she was the mediator for a court tv documentary called meeting with a killer one families journey which was nominated for an any in two thousand to obey. Watch that court tv, maybe ceased old yeah.
And Ellen Howard is presently while presently at the time of the article I was reading, so might not be right now, but she is the director of the victim, witness division at the district, attorney's office and Travis Company tax. Let an amazing human being is not fucking not set. I'm trying to focus on that power instead of the other parts, because I feel idle. That's the point I feel now she is like a hot like funny how, when it's a survivor, I feel like we were. I think, we're both in the mindset that liked don't get too, casting a graphic when it's a sum. His died, but when it's a survivor you can explain everything that happened because they survive battle and cause it's her story right. Oh it's the way she tellwright and she wants. I will that well at the way she totally totally. Let's how she wants it to be told yeah, so yeah that's insane and amazing, and what a second separation. Bad asked me
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So, if you get even at fifty dollars towards any mattress purchase by visiting casper dot com, slash murder, step in the right Catherine archives, lash were promo code, murder turns out terms and conditions of life, but they always do mean. Listen, it's life, look listen! I did you sleep. Mine, isn't so good. Pray, minors, not so positive, I'm not contain any more because you're gonna, fuck ups, you're gonna know it pretty quickly and Leon. Twelve nineteen? Seventy seven Nearly a hundred and forty girl scouts arrived, Camp Scott here Wade. Amazing. The Oklahoma girl scout murderous. This is so fucking
and there's a lot of stuff. I didn't know about it. I think I kind of known the murder part but didn't know what came after it, so they arrive. A camp, Scott, sprawling, heavily wooded property, South EAST of law Hist Grove in North EAST Oklahoma and the girl? Scots have been coming to this spot every summer for fifty years Threem so for camp exposed to start what Just that idea two years historical nine to eleven year olds. In the word MIA. It just immediately made me go like there's somebody that near they came back area there, somebody that layer knew the new there. Be there at that time. There did I into girl scout camp in a situation in credit. Like Pro exactly the same set up as this sorry and in this camp, so I can picture exactly what happened? Sorry, just remembered,
When I was doing member- and I did that casino gig with Julian Mccullough- and it was in Oklahoma area, the woman who was that her for that casino, which is the best gig, it was so much fun and I'm says I can't remember your name off the top you will get it eventually do Oh me by the state, you turned down to get to this girl now, which is now more. Maybe they turned into something else, but we draw Laura where she was like want me to show it to you know like yes, I don't want you to show it to me, but we could it. It was like to fart shoes like it's basically over there. Yes, it's the middle of you know big flat. I think there's a long walk way. I think that's come cookie lane three months before campuses start. I think they're, having like all the council's common learns but they're gonna be doing April next to me, seven, a councillor at Camp Scott and found Let her ten had been ransacked and heard. Doughnuts were stolen, an end.
Box in the empty box was in no warning that three girls would be murdered at the camp and the future no yeah. I feel it ever heard of where everyone render offers a prank then tell so gentle? ninety seven first official knight of the two weeks, camp? Scott the night is a big thunderstorms. They dont have her usual activity, is every one kind of just hungers down into their And so the hammock it was like that. Endless tent material, but that but like a wolf floor, That's actually, when I went to camp that's what the tongue here, we have called the how and re that when I went to gross how companies like that, you and your like shitty caught bed and stuff here with your city duck and was
Come second AG young, it's all very uncomfortable, like it's fun at first and then you're like I, my bed his way out of here and taking a shower you only thirty. Second showers and its people die of hunger there. There is only a drought at the time, and so they tying the showers in they literally shut off. A thirty second must have been like forty nine I can certainly still exists there like we're teaching you how to conserve water but letting you gotta be dirty here. I hated it so they hundred out of an eye. It has no lights in any of the cabins. They just flashlights, so ten aid is known as Cuba and in that anti usually was for girls to attend no counselor councillors in any of the tents the three friends are lorry Lee Farmer, she's a door
Denise Milner, whose ten and Michel who say who's nine. There often broken era Oklahoma, which is at a suburb of Tulsa and Cuba, that their cabin was located the furthest from the councillors, tents, it's about, sixty yards away, and partially obscure and by the shower for the camps. It was like the most remote cabin and eighty six yard does like almost a football field. Isn't I didn't now's the fulfils a hundred yards, so it's like that so far away, it might be feet. I heard was one of those things were like indifferent articles. I read different thing I will get. It may be. That happens all the time. We're? U Axiom information, but it happens. All the towards leg is person same Jerry, Jane RE, but it just changes purred or someone and read it is like this is wrong, but I wouldn't be
there's no way. Those things are like set up to make them more like in nature, and eighty six feet is still a long way off from EU. Iceland is of all night restoring signing men euro there's only sixteen year old girls her councillors. So it's and you can see like though they have a lay out online to show exactly where it is in its absolutely on its own. So. Ok, so that night said there's a book called in the camps that called the camps got murders by Cs Kelly. He says to counselor had been frightened by two men at the camp that night and some campers said they saw a man and army boots behind a tent this there's so much pre shit at will. The thirty in the morning some one hears moaning out near camp cure everyone's in their tents, Carl account counselor. She checks out the noise and describe it as a low guttural moaning, but it would up whenever her flashlight came near. Also,
I, too am the tenth flap of tents. Seven is opened three, I was inside her sleeping, but the fourth girl stated that she noticed a beam of light moving around the interior from outside with a silhouette of a large thank you. Behind it and then she says the figure mood are moved off toward. A tent number, eight muscular Nora, just came back from count the nine year old, niece ten tenure. Earliest I mean this is this? Is this is rough? Can you imagine a cable lilla? Imagine getting this call their sister this cut down. Imagine it, but now imagine things I got all the time I now had so how much like the Islamic, just the standard thing of like oh yeah there for a while, I told you that for a while, I couldn't stop doing it. I finally had to call my sister- and I was like I can't just can't stop imagining something button messages Leander, though attire doodle time when I was like
ok, let's do that. Then I would as yet, when you love a child. That's what happened! That's what that's part of it! I get it so array The moaning sounds are heard throughout the night throughout the camp. Around three. I am a girl in the Cherokee Section, across the words Curtis scream coming from the direction of Cuba. Cabinet and here it says it was located about to city blocks away and she heard moaning again. Another cabin also heard a scream and the scream? This cries she It sounded like Mamma Mamma, someone, yelling Mamma, Mamma may now, then, this morning, six am June thirteenth Camp councillors on her way to the showers Anne. She stumble upon a horrific in act. Tat mere tend to eight how she's, probably success account counselor can't get our so monopoly.
Our somewhere between two and four in the morning, Someone had cut his way into the tent. It's horrible. He legends and rapes. Lorry and Michel. They had been struck and killed in the tent while they were sleeping and They had been bounding they bound the person bound and gagged Doris. A car outside, raped and strangled her as well. So then, Two girls who are in the tent are like stuffed into the bottom of their sleeping bags and there's if in bags are pulled, talk to wear Doris is on a path about a hundred and fifty feet away from the tent, so girls are left together on, like a trail, You say, and farmers sleeping bags had let their bodies and we're inside they have bloody bedsheets that then use the killer. Try to wipe down the blood that was
the floor of the cavern, which is so we are in, and they also found a roll of black duct tape and a flashlight than murder had discarded like what his blood in that blood, and that's why he was trying to clean it up soon on. The other buddy bedsheets it see my ass they attacks he'd trying to cover its tracks yet, which also seems as panicking. Then here don't leave your flashlight yeah. It sounds like he was past, again. Maybe can't realise what he had done. Trying to fit you now. Ok, So for days later so is calm. May you know they ve made? clean up the scene.
Four days later, we another this is insane manhunt but starts like the biggest Manhattan Oklahoma history. Four days later, police find sunglasses belonging to a camps, got counselor and boot branch print that match the one found at the scene of the crime in some in a cave near the camp. So they find that and they also find a message written on the wall in one of the caves that says the killer was here by force and then the date six, seventeen, seventy seven they so my tape, plus bags plastic from garbage bag similar to that wrapped around the flash I found next to the girls in a newspaper. From the same addition as apiece discovered, in the flashlight and left acts the girls and they also find two photo. They find He photos of women, the photos are determined should be free the wedding of a prison guard and their true
back to a man named Jean Leroy Heart, who had been working at the photo lab in granite reformatory and had developed the photos of the wedding of the poor, guard when he was serving time for kidnapping and, first a great degree, rape, convictions and nineteen sixty six. So we have these photos of these women. For some reason left them behind and they were able to trace them act. Him ok, so that means he developed these pictures because it was his job at them at their present yeah. But those because we're never given to the present, He probably made make copies of them for himself me. They were too pretty women and he wanted to keep the photos of women, but it's not the prison guards in the clear yeah as cannot the prison Korea. So what talk about Gene Lee where I heart she's a thirty four year old, Cherokee Native American he's fine, but ten weighs about two hundred pounds he's pretty built he's a thick dude he's got black
air brown eyes is born and raised in locust growth, which is right next to the camp. He was. School football star he whispered. He was brain popular. I wanted, teacher said he was just wasn't. The kind of kid you would have thought would have turned out bad. But he was an immediate suspect at the time of the murders he was on the run from police because he had escaped jail and nineteen seventy three he was twenty two when he was arrested and accused of abducting to pregnant women from its wholesome club, raping one of them and he pleaded guilty and was sentenced to three concurrent ten year. Prison term which is ten years as we now three current tenure terms. Is ten years not, I know you're exactly, which is absurd. He's world after four raping and kidnapped to pregnant women he's purled after twenty eight months
he's arrested again and nineteen sixty nine. This time is charged with four council first degree burglary, please now guilty he's found guilty and for this this and his past crimes, then he is finally set sentenced to a maximum of three hundred and five years in prison. He's saying, oh, that Judge Polly was like a guy ass if he got out so quickly for rape and kind of through the book at him. Maybe he I think maybe the only problem is that if he was set up for the first one than his, I dont elegantly rotten y know you don't, you haven't? You keep like guilty to that? I now, let's people die? I now so he had grown up a half a mile north of Camp Scott. There were others aspects, including a comic the greatest named bill, Stevens the couple who knew a couple who knew Stevens that he borrowed a flashlight the match the description of the one used left. The crime scene a few, days before the murder, and he showed up with what looked like blood,
on his boots, he told them. He experienced car trouble and locust Grove he's a nine everything said he hadn't been in the area and us, but a scouts at the testified tat. She had seen a man who looked like him at the camp, but they still focused on her Mannheim would go down as the largest and state history took an entire year to catch him. He was just aid to cave house to house are on the run. So they found him. In April nineteen, seventy eight he'd been hiding out in the area and each it would be really released. They each cave had clues and evidence related to the girl scout murders. So they mean up confirming the police that he was there man they Also, they found a mere toy pipe which another camp counselor testified have been taking from her tat. She went, traffic the murders and face three council first degree murder he was acquitted, you're, just five hours of deliberation, so this
all community of people and so many Villona community rally behind him and thought it was set up that these the evidence have been planted, that he was a good. You know a good kid. The of Course Cherokee Indians, not of course, but they backed they didn't they didn't come out saying they thought he hadn't done it, but they said they are giving him money for his defence too. Port him, because, as an american and native American here, they didn't think you would get a fair trial unless he had the money to represent himself, which obviously is true. But they said specifically, this isn't we're not saying think he's innocent are guilty. They just want them to have a fair trial. Exactly right because probably in that area. Radio to thing is something happens: Why don't you go look on the reservation? When are you go right, age, a native American, exactly
and all the other suspects that they had and that are still around more weight, so they this one outlets seem like they went after him, but he was acquitted everyone a quorum cheered which, if you read articles two three families, the three killed girls or just so, devastated, when people are cheering that he got off of Coronel. And the jurors ended up saying there were too many loose ends too many things didn't add up, wonder said: none of us knew whether he did it or didn't. We were shocked that they didn't have more evidence and what they had, so they just couldn't connect him but because of its previous jailbreak in his earlier crimes, he was taken to prison to serve the remaining three hundred years of his prison previous rape and burglar convictions, and has taken a prison any eyes
three weeks later and nineteen, seventy nine at thirty five years old, while jogging in a prison yard he dies or heart attack. Some people think he didn't do it or or that he didn't act alone? There's physical left behind the crime scene that was recovered during the autopsy. That indicates that two offenders were involved in the crime, including two different, not being used to tie up the girls, I think, is obvious. Always kind of a weird sign rain and the girls were separated and died, indifferent manners evidence presented at hearts trial. That was used to rule out included a footprint in the blood of the floor of the I then that is a size. Ten hearts feet were close union eleven and a half there's also a your point on a flashlight found at the scene. That wasn't hearts, which I think is that weird you know it's like one person would have held that flashlight period,
now the kind of an airline live a life of the flat rate. Exactly Then a bunch DNS dna tests have been done on biological evidence from the crime scene since the murderous throughout the years. There's enough inclusive that has come, although in nineteen eighty nine so five aspects of dna testing from the scene, three matched some bodily fluids that were taken from heart. Only one in seven thousand. Seven hundred american Indians would match the samples of that fluid. Let because only three instead of five match, their results were officially deemed inconclusive, but analysis of Sperm sample show that only point zero zero. Two per cent of the population met the characteristics contained in the evidence and heart included in that's. Why I'm here
those numbers are way huge are genuine and seventy seven thousand irregular, and if they had that technology, nineteen, seventy nine, maybe he would have been that would have been enough evidence for the jury kind of when I'm all circumstantial evidence, because they That's all they had re, which you now it's almost like if they could have waited to have been a lot of times, though weight to have more, hence to bring him to trial. Really how eight years the abbot. Here? prison anyways, Emily. It's the speedy trial, malaria and the families once just says you can be like a real across her fingers. It then science is coming also goes back, then They had no idea that kind of friends accept we're going to eventually, yes, maybe I'm there like in the eighties I feel like they are finally like. Well, this new technology is coming out a lot of times. You hear, unlike forensic files, let's wait and tell that dodgy. Has
you know every every year I feel like there's a new way of testing some fluid or some stain that they were unable to do before new extract a different strain of dna at an epidemic I don't fucking, talking about Gimme India, so pretty standard here, not like science. Think this love, what we do or derisory repeating what we watch on forensic file right and other shows that tell us about DNA, vague postulating- and you know it so interesting- is in this trial. They used things that are now discounted. Like hair samples, they found a hare that they said and matched him. There was another thing that they on that they set match him. That now wouldn't be admissible. Acquire fibre, apparently fibre, Asia, but now would never be admissible in court. Yes, so it's still kind of weird, let's see members of its native american family, also accused the police of going after heart because he's an american many peoples
that the sheriff of ten was really vindictive because heart had made him look bad for escaping twice I just and being on, the Lamb he was online for free tat makes the sheriff liquidity. Stupid? So he tries to throw the book at him while and a former prosecutor. Trying to turn the killing and hearts arrests and to a position as state attended, attorney general and to write a book about it. So far I Terry gain as well, so that's kind of their proof that he was railroaded the ass after he died. A thorn in threes didn't pursue that many other suspects after the killings of, and I want to state our names again because you know kind of ignoring through so lordly farmer doorstep. An honour and Michel who say no, are suspects, are really pursued or arrested,
and then they all the parents went on to do all this. Of course, victims advocacy. They were all you know they are interviewed and and an end being these credit, keep on doing good things afterwards. That when the sister of lorry, when she back to school after the murder or sister tears? After and after had been acquitted, hearted been acquitted, she wrote a school, and this is just so sodomy shorter school. And in it she said one nation, under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all, except for my family. Oh no, I know and that's the story of the Oklahoma girl scout murder, that side so sad, his little girls. Also, to me, it's just like that. Crime deciding
who knows what really happened. Like the idea that someone hides in caves. One. There on the lamb is the perfect way to set somebody up to put in a k. They'll find again. Why it is like Jack, the ripper stuff. Why would you right on the wall? Yeah? If you did this thing, you would cover all your tracks and get the fuck out. Google riding on the wall by my mother fucker that society date putting the day a day, an like yeah and, ass. You were taunting the police unless you are taunting the police or unless the police were trying to set summing up too perfectly match what he'd already done in that kind. Make a murderer way, we're just like we don't, like you, don't think you're type where you take it yeah and we ve been trying to find you. We don't have any more budget to put into this, but if you were the ash child murderers rapists, then we can put all of our resources into finding you see. I myself, I was just as they be only problem that I I mean. Obviously the thing that makes
upset about that, then. If that That is what they're doing if their agenda turns from finding the person who did it into getting the person they that ashamed them or whatever fucking problem. There is Then we still have a person who stabbed three nine year old girls with a fucking knife and rape to them looking around the world, yet that's the point to me here, it's one of those cases where I dont know if he's guilty or not, but I could argue either way. You know that the evidence was planted in the caves or he was hunting them in. Oh, it's either one is possible and then arguing like I hadn't thought about what you said witches did he not commit those rapes if he committed those rapes to me, it's obvious that he was also capable you know of of this, I'm gonna. Also I'm I'm leaning more torrents him having. Being more than one person who commit. Those crimes,
because of the ropes being that the different knots, because without them being separated and and murdered in different ways. You know the girls, were immediately knocked unconscious and left in the cabin. And one was it. You know it's, It's it's we're all different like Emma S. Younger and lay people argue that that how would how, when one person be able to handle these three girls, which I think is a bullshit argument, because two girls were unconscious, but not only that we know that these prayer, errors can scare. Especially small girls into obeying them or ass, the Richards back he era. It was eight, I believe off the top of my head and those in earth is fully grown women who he got to all stay in a room while he took One by one rape and murder of them- and they can't like the woman who was hiding, was just
you don't understand it. We I it was, he had a gun and he kept being very soothing or whatever. So like that can being able to control people when you are the attacker is I love. One people argue that shit fuck and talking about we're not sitting those people weren't sitting on a couch drinking coffee. Actually they were, they said if you scream we're. Gonna, kill your family, yet like centre working as simple as that we, if you use frame all show your friend over here, that kind of stuff I mean than that that argument that I think he carefully another little things like this different kinds of ropes- that's just it just feels If there is ever a murdered that should have been saw Ray, you know,
three ten year old girls at girl scout camp, they should have fucking figured out the best way to figure out who did, I feel another, also doing what their their continuing the dna testing so as it does get more advance. Their tries is still open here and they are like sending different kinds of the new swabs they can actually task there still doing that, so they're still might be an answer one day, don't you it's possible now you know, I'm love to Devil's out of the gate, and I love to go like what is the thing that isn't being found over something tat. The idea that he's jogging in jail and die rate of a hard to target aged thirty five is trusting to me. It is impossible and are some people who have congenital heart because what they said you now he's got that runs. Miss family heaters really out of shape, but thirty five, definitely minimizing jogging, always get you're gonna. Now you're gonna get it altogether once you're fucking in jail yeah. I know
I got it. I'm analyzes last twenty pounds that sending an argument and it's the thing I like. If their dna does come back to him, which it kind of seems like I did in these other ways, people are say what was planted so they hang unless it comes back as someone else doing it no one's ever gonna fully leave that he and conclusively believe that he was the color right now yeah, but then hearing that he got acquitted is just so if you believe it was him, is so heartbreaking. I think his family, the families. I believed it was him up. There was something honours data then been also it's that it makes me think of the Memphis Levice Memphis, three yeah When you have the perfect person who did it hurt you to be over here. He wants me over and you also want to show everyone that the police,
force and the FBI was there everything out. There was a huge Mannheim, for a year. You wanna show that you have done your diligence and you ve caught the bad guy. Everyone can stopping Can you imagine your for a year this person who has no problem raping and sodomizing fucking nine year old, is on the list and the name, then I ll, you know you have to look at all the photos of the three girls are justly sweet, Amy angel. Like me young sweethearts, and then I look at the thought of them with their siblings and its does port you now I feel so bad. Victim, but the siblings to the rest of their lives must have been so horrifying yeah. That's some you ever get over. My specially than you go and have children, and you see your own nine year old daughter and you know Can you imagine someone hurting that person? What are you
monster, yeah yeah they ve got to figure out a way minority report style totally figure out who these people are conclusively. I feel like that's what I feel like it. Making for profit prisons, who maybe people it should, Can we just actually focus on so that when these people exist in society, we figure out a way to find them and make sure they don't do this to people? Well, we are, we brain scan them. And that brain scan tells us, but their capable of what they're lying about her, what he, even if their sociopath you can still see that lake. Then what neurons fire when they're lying? Listen. If they have a memory of this crime,
Their brains are see through if there are raised this from weighed down deep in the EP, is steps of the water their brains made ever they made of gold fish crackers? Are they just a ton of tiny knives and their if there are tiny knives? And it's a tiny Her tiny murderer in the ring controlling it with controls. If there is, let's get ready I speak, let's put them on some kind of lepers island, great, this has been a serious waste of time. Thanks every side room, you will change every change, nothing, no! There's lots of people working hard to change, namely, I think for sure we hear from people all the time that are like I'm going to fucking criminality, scale, victims advocate yet all the time. It's very call- and I think, like that yeah it's that idea that Instead of letting politics gettin away and money, let's get let's catch
child murderers, let's catch adult murderers, let's like let's catch child murderers before they child murders, but then we're getting into. Some real dick dear re. That is what my minority borders about, which is like. It's late, graphics, what's the ethnicity about, and Tom Cruise it is best only for the second noun hell. You guys were younger. Don't remember that Christmas? A heart, you don't remember it was twenty ten seven years, my seven years ago, seven years I know I know I mean bits. Time goes by. I gotta go to work out o my god how we're is coming out in two hours: ass even has are for the delay, I'm sure we're gonna guests, I'm sure Stevens Gonna get and already has gotten lots of message when we were texting yesterday about. Is it ok? If we do it in the morning and students, and now it's gonna be lane people get upset, you know we should let them know and then we
and then I said. Ok, just tell him it's your father. Do they tell you did it for me? Elvis care me on this one. I know more who so. You can headed in the faint where's that I was gonna. Make me out. Listen, I love her bucket and daddy she's an angel baby and tell us this home hold good thoughts in your mind, our prayers for Elvis Forest quick recovery ass. We can come back and eat cookies and me out with ASEAN and until we see you again stay sex and don't get and murdered by I am
Transcript generated on 2020-01-13.