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And right now you can start having your team all work together on the same page for free head over the coda dot, io forward, slash purpose that c o d, a dot io forward, slash purpose to get started for free, coda, dot, io forward, slash purpose, My fascination was in what happens to people throughout their lives. What really happens to people there's so much hype about what life is supposed to be like right? I mean look at that look at look at advertisements and look at social media, and you would imagine that everybody's happy and on vacation and parties all the time follow someone's life over eighty years is such a privilege, so

We ve been trying to build a deep relations with each other. It started with these former videos and you said J. We need more if you so we launched the pod costs, which men I was speaking for thirty minutes to an hour every single week, but to amazing Picasso we and then something in well. How do we go a step further, and so I found out for my friends that this is new, really cool new thing that I've been trying out its quota community phone them which means that you can actually text me, I'm being serious, so he's my number when you do, I don't stop waiting right now and write this down three one zero, nine nine seven full one. Seven seven, oh said again: three one: zero, nine, nine seven full one, seven seven! You can tell me why and the best thing about this is, I can send you real time updates where out, what I'm thinking about reflections and having realizations pictures, and isn't it true that, with friends Tax them right, you don't email, your friends, you don't just postal Instagram in hope. Your friend see you text him when you, when a chess and examined it, do that with all of you,

The text me now three, one: zero, nine seven for one, seven, seven, have everyone welcome back to you on purpose. Thank you. So much for tuning in whether your listening or watching right? Now, I'm genuinely so grateful that voting time and energy in your life, to growth, to learn to Sir I think it's an amazing commitment that you make every single week and I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that I was once SAM, so for that you're sharing the insights on Instagram on Twitter and Facebook trust me. I see. Am. I train shares many of them as I can, but I love seeing that we'll gaining so many phenomenal messages from my interviews with incredible guests and the solo episodes. I do every single Friday and I also read your review. So you reviews mean so much to me, I'm always scanning and browsing through and noticing, how much love and kindness there is there.

Thank you for allowing me to serve you in this way and today I'm really excited introduce you to the gas. Today's gas is someone that I've followed for a very long time I have quoted is research in multiple videos and multiple coaching sessions that I've done when I saw his name on this list, where we currently are with the author Blank Foundation in West Creek Ranch in Monterrey, when I saw his name I said I have to have him on the podcast, because someone that I look to so much. His TED talk is one of the top ten most viewed TED talks of or time which is phenomenal in and of itself, but is also a psychiatrist, Psycho analysed and Zen priest. I can't wait to hear more about that he's a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and directs the Harvard Study of adult development, one of the longest running studies of adult life ever done in that's the one that I have quoted show many times

His name is Doctor Robert wielding a robot. Thank you so much for doing this. It's a pleasure. We are very grateful to have you here. As I said, I mean every word. I definitely quoted in reference to work, so many times had to be sitting here with use in honour of mine, and I really appreciate it, but I wanted to start with the first question about the study I just referred to, which you have dedicated so much of your life and work too, and I love you too just introduce my audience to that study just to set us up of where it Again and what its really been resembling sure so, as you said, as far we know, it's the longest study of adult life, that's

been done, meaning we started with a group of people in nineteen, thirty eight and we followed them through their entire lives. It started actually as two separate studies, a study of Harvard College Sophomores and a study of boys from Boston, poorest, neighborhoods. As far as the Harvard College Boys, young men are concerned, they there were two hundred and sixty eight of them from the classes of nineteen. Thirty, nine to nineteen. Forty two John Kennedy was a member the study Ben Bradley, who was editor of the Washington Post, for so many years, for example, when the Watergate scandal broke and then mostly ordinary, people who went to Harvard and then went on to lead interesting, but usually

pretty regular lives, the inner city boys of four hundred and fifty six of them were selected because they were from really disadvantaged families info this with a lot of trouble and they were selected with the question of. Why are these boys able to stay? of trouble. Why are they not able? Why do they not get in trouble with the law and become juvenile delinquency it started out as a study of who avoids juvenile delinquency. And why. And then these two groups of people were combined and studied to gather starting in the nineteen seventies, but an finally, they were separate studies that didn't even know about each other. Well, so badly study have totally Deborah measuring something completely different to what you ended up finding When did you get involved in the process? I got involved fifteen years ago. I'm the fourth director

And one of my heroes, a professor of psychiatry at Harvard, was my predecessor, and he took me out to lunch one day and said: how would you like to inherit the study of adult development and I was dumbfounded Anne and at first said I dont know thing about aging cause, the men were pretty old by then and I study couples, and he said, let's study aging couples. So the first thing we did together was to study late life, marriage and how it affects our health wow than that was how I joined the study. That's fascinating! That's incredible! I'd love to explore bitten your work with couples in research. If you don't mind as its as a slight

tell me about some of the most incredible things you found from studying marriage and how they affect our well being one of the things we found, which was the most surprising to me, was that arguing wasn't a problem in couples. We used think that if you argued a lot that it was a bad relationship and it was gonna break up- turns out that wasn't true that Many couples could argue a lot and be really tight and quite stable and other couples didn't argue at all, but gradually broke up when we videotape couples having a disagreement. The thing that clearly predicted. Who was gonna stay to gather five years down? The road was how much affection they showed for each other, so they could be

arguing and really mad at each other, but as long as you saw that bedrock of affection, those were stable couples and the couples that didn't have much affection where the couples that were in more trouble. I started taking a letter greens because, as someone who is always on the go, sometimes it's hard to eat healthy, so I wanted to make sure I'm still able to get the vitamins and minerals my body needs without carrying around a ton of supplements. So what is this stuff with one delicious scoop of atlantic Greens, your absorbing seventy five high quality vitamins, minerals, whole food source, Super foods, probiotics and adapted genes to help you start your day right? This special blend of ingredients supports your guy

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over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional ensure only of metro by T Mobile, you can upgrade to five g and get more more choices with the largest selection of pre by deep owns like this Samsung Galaxy, eight thirty, five g and more gee coverage on the team. Obol networking only at Metro, most affordable versus major prepaid, variance with eligible port idea plan plus tax five g not available in some areas of congestion users, greater than thirty five gigabytes from unpainted reduce, beats metro customers, Minos, reduce beats versus team oval. Due to prior decision video authority. Well, that's incredible NEA and I've seen that another work is well aware. Actually, learning how to fight is such an important skill exam, and actually our biggest desire when it comes to arguments, is thinking. We have to run away or borys. Thing or hide away. We try to avoid conflict, and I think conflict resolution or having tough conversations is

an important skill that we never get exposed to exactly? In fact, one of the big developmental tasks of a young couple is to learn how to handle disagreements, because every who's gonna have disagreements. So how do we handle them? How do we get to a point where. One person doesn't win in the other loses, but that that you get to a point where you can emerge from a conflict, strong, and certainly no weaker, and what we found was that actually the development of a couple relationship, those through a stage of learning how to resolve conflicts and then. Ideally you no longer need to do that you ve figured that out and that as you get older, the developmental task for older couples is learning how to support each other, because if you think about it. Ass we get older. We really need each other more and more like we need. A lean on each other physically as well as emotionally as

call things happen in our lives as illness starts to happen, so when we started studying our older couples, we asked them to have an argument on videotape. They couldn't think of things to argue about, and we thought what's wrong with this picture, we realized known or no it's, because they had already worked out how they were going to manage. But I lost it. That's why they last it and what we found was that that the real real interesting point for our older couples was we when we asked them. Could you talk about your biggest worry with your partner to see how the partners supported them? That was a huge window on how the older couples were doing on its and grew. What kind of things did they say where their biggest worries

well sometimes really boring things like. I dont know what to make you for dinner, definite honey and though those were not the interesting conversations. The interesting conversations were. I am afraid that if I die first, that you won't be o k by yourself or I'm afraid of you die first I'll have to go to sing home, or I am afraid that when we die are children won't handle their finances. Well, really big issues that then they could talk about an often offer each other mutual support around well, and I must have been a powerful question for them to talk about is: did you fuck,

in that, at that stage of development, where they quite vulnerable with each other or what they still these pockets of night, not hiding anything, but just you just one thing to talk about it if you're scared of sharing so you're, absolutely right in what you're suggesting, which is that couples varied a lot like some couples could really be open with each other and get right down to basics and important she's and other couples were pretty closed off, or sometimes one member of the couple could be very emotionally available and the other was pretty closed off, so it varied, but the healthiest couples were the ones who were really emotionally therefrom. Other I've been saying around the argument. Point alive lot been repeating in a lot of forums that I've been in that when you're arguing. Remember that it's not you against each other, its both of you against the problem, absolute because

I've been saying that I'm very competitive and I like winning, I enjoy winning and I have learned in my relationship with my wife that it's a lot more fun to win together, because in a relationship, if you win and upon a loses, you both lose exam and if you partner wins and you lose, you both lose. So the only way to win is to win together exact. How what have you seen and I'd love to understand from you? What are those developmental steps that people can take to actually argue better or manage disagreements, better great question, so there are, some good techniques, and so we find that many couples either go into couples therapy or there are some good books that couples can read that can help them and there are strategies you can use. So, for example, what you said about realizing that year, your both

trying to solve a problem that it's not arguing with each other to see who wins and who loses. But how do we manage this problem that once you make the problem, the to a few? Well, yes, you're in much better shape, there's some simple language techniques so, for example, making eyes state so instead of saying when you said that you were gonna make me mad or you hurt me, is we say when you said that I felt hurt, and this is what it felt like to me. It felt like you meant this, but then I'm not saying I know what you were thinking. I know what you were trying to do. I'm saying this is how received it, and then I give you a chance to tell me what you meant and then we can do some repair and we can do some getting to common ground so they're in their variety of techniques like that. That are pretty easy to learn and that can really help change though,

awful conversations to one where you both end up feeling closer and I loved that switch that you making from you too I language I think when we are seeing you you, you you you we end up making these they permanent statements based on a temporary event and we start make these big accusations rather than article eighteen, how we feel some we express their anger, Rawdon, explain it and and when people don't feel like you're explaining so thing- and we expect the other person read our mind- and you know what we ve been thinking about it- it becomes very hot and so much gets lost in. I feel so. I love that switch right. I think that's really really powerful impractical for people. The other thing you just pointed out was this tendency. We have to say You always do that or more you never do this and you always end you never are terrible statements being

Nobody always does anything, he never does anything, and so, if we can stay with, what are we just disagreeing about right now? You didn't take out the trash when I asked you to less just about that. Not you never help around the house, Yeah. Definitely I love that. I hope you guys are taking note of your listing on watching right now. Those are three really practical steps and tips that I'd love for you to test out this week. Experiment with you naturally going to have a you mean- I just put it in there just start, throwing these things in, because you start to see how much they can benefit you and one of the big things while we Forward from this argument point that I've been encouraging people is that you don't prepare for an argument in the argument, so a lot of people say orbit J when I'm one were fighting like. I can't think of this stuff. I can remember- and I say exactly like D, the sports player or the athlete doesn't prepare on World CUP

game day or might stay there preparing beforehand. So what I say to people when your relationship is feeling strong when you're having a good time, use that time to discuss how you'd like to deal with disagreements, because At this time, when your steady, that's a time when you're in the right sense of mind and state of mind- and you can make decision, for look. I know we may argue about this and I'd love for us to communicate in this way, and if you prepared beforehand. You more likely to remember that that's just mice, intrusion and instinct on it, but it's a great intuition and to that point one things people should feel free to do is take a time out. Yes, so, as you say, you know, I can't think of what I want to think of right now. Say, and sometimes it's just going in a bad direction, and that's the time when you should be both of you to say, look, let's take a time out. It's just not feeling good right now, let's let come back to this and then really come back,

yeah like one of the maxims that I like sometimes is strike, while the iron is cold there, when things are really hot, that and when you say things you regret when you can't think of the right things or can't say it is you mean too, and if you can take a time out, go away as echo? How do I really want to explain this? Then you come back and you can. You can say more what you want to say in the tone that you want to say it in and and do more constructive building of the relationship. Again, that's beautiful. I love that really glad we got to address at together are now back the year seventy five year study. Now, I'm glad I'm really happy, I'm really happy. We got to go in that direction. I think it's really positive and powerful conversation and very proud go back when we look at a seventy five year study what will your biggest fascination and when you got involved with it and then tell us a bit about the things that you found. The surprising thing,

in the things that are important for us. My fascination was in what happens to people throughout their lives. What really happens to people, What are we remember, because we often tell ourselves story is trying to remember back to what happened in our lives and also not. What do we think ought to happen, but what's life really like four people, there's so much hype about what life is both to be like right, I mean, look just look at advertisements and look at social media- and you would imagine that everybody's happy and on vacation and parties all the time, but what's life really like in so getting to look at that? getting to follow. Someone's life over eighty years is such a privilege. So I thought this is like them amazing work. I could possibly do so. That's why I wanted to do it and then,

Some of the things we found were things that were expected bowl, but really important messages to get out there. So, for example, to we find that smoking is really bad for your health and your longevity and that that tobacco kills ok, we, we are just one more study to remind us of of what we know. Alcoholism is a terrible problem, and so people who get into with alcoholism, really need help and support in getting treatment for that drug abuse, as well exercise. Regular exercise really does keep people healthier and allow them to live longer. So again, these are not surprising.

But to say that there is more and more science behind. This is helpful for some people under present, yes, and then that the surprise for me- and I think for many of Us- was the finding that people who aged better people who stayed healthier as they got older people who lived longer were people who had warmer closer relationship. And people who were more socially connected to others that initially, when we started finding that in our data, we didn't believe it source of wait. How could live a bunch of social relationships. How could that make you live longer? What happened was that other studies, other research groups, began to find the same thing and that helped us believe it, and now what were studying is

that happen? How could how could the warmth of your relationships? How could you relationship with your wife actually mean difference in whether you develop coronary artery disease or arthritis or diabetes. How could that possibly happen? We're learning about that now in our research. So that's the one of the cool things I get to study. Now. Yeah absolute and tell me about how you were able to deeply define social connection and what that won't was because I go so that we can all project our own beliefs onto what that yet, but I'd love to hear your site of actually doing the research like what was categorized as warmth and what was categorized as meaningful social connection to have that result, gas, so their bunch of different ways,

about social connection? One is literally how many people do you see in a given day or given weak, and that's also important. So people who see more people ten to live longer and healthier compared with people who more socially isolated right and is that sea? One too No, do you mean even in the workplace, even in the workplace is now sometimes there they're called weak ties and what tat means is people we are connected with, but not that connected Oh, I might see someone at work and we have a kind of friendly exchange. How is your weekend and it turns out that that's health, promoting as long as they're decent exchanges is also not snarling at each other right. It turns out that that is health, promoting ok but then, in addition, what you talked about the warmth of connection turns out to be really important, so we're not gonna have the closest warmest.

Connections with everybody we see during the day, but a few people, if we're lucky, we'll be people who we feel like we could call on, as we asked our participants who could you call in the middle of the night if you were sick or scared? If we have people in our lives like that, and then those are the connections that really help keep us healthy terms, so their people who offer us physical, Support Institute. We call instrumental support. They'll drive us to the doktor when we need it. They'll come over and hold our hand when we're throwing up emotional, So when I have a really awful day and I'm feeling terrible about my life and my work, I can talk to somebody and they will help combat

help me put it in perspective and literally I can feel my body come down when they're kind of conversation happens. Amazing and often often it's your romantic partner, but you don't have to have a romantic partner to have this kind of relationship. You can have close friends, it could be a sibling, it could be apparent. But having at least one or two of those relationships in the world is really important for our health and well being and whether any indicators suggested how to build those or how these but were able to achieve that with people, because I think today what we find is. Does this struggle of, like even being able to be expressive about our intentions, would p the law, the guy. I have a very open way of behaving as if I like someone our reach out to them after reaching out to them. Once you ve met I'll, be really clear about where I should see this going as a friend and have literally said the people that are very different

Now that hey, I, I think we're gonna get along for life in it. I have this intention that we should be friends and sometimes seen The way this thing to say, but now they thank me like a year later or to yell two years later, the alleged that is to be an it's actually happen only because I thought that's what it wasn't. They'll be people that I won't see again, and so I'm just very clear about my intentions in that helps me a clarify to other people what I want, but I can feel scary. Sometimes, what have you seen as good ways in which people can create meaningful bonds, because I think that's what we all struggle today. I think today the challenges with surrounded by people, but we still feel lonely work, constantly having a small talk, but not deep. Talk were constantly completely filled up with friends and followers, but no one to call at that time. So what does it take to get there? Did you find anything around that? Yes, so it

some degree of vulnerability, meaning I'm gonna risk a little bit and the risk, as you might reject me or you might turn away right. So when you said to some, one, I think we get along really well in. My intention is to be your friend. The way this thing, and now it's now I've already friends. Now it s not weird at all, but you made yourself vulnerable, because what, if someone turns out tat J. I don't think so, really! No, I don't feel it so much that we heard a little reigned, so you but you're willing to put yourself out there. Now not everybody is gonna feel comfortable. We know that, yes, I repeat what I note as it is, it might be, so some guys are just used to play basketball together or you know, playing off together or just watching what in a game on television together, even

king, another guy to hang out, could be making use of vulnerable like you can feel like guys. Don't do that? Why don't happen to run into you or if our wives don't arrange it, I'm not going to do it so My level of vulnerability might just be saying to my friend: would you get together with me? on Saturday afternoon re at that. A big deal yes like I would. Love it of my intention. If I could say my intention is that we're gonna be lifelong friends, friends and I think I'm I'm trying to get more to that place, but I think we'd each person has start where they are, and so I would say if I were to recommended, find where you could be a little bit vulnerable with somebody and take that risk whatever that might be the idea in trying to make and keep a connection. Yes, the other thing is I we found that.

Relationships are like it's almost like physical fitness, like you can't just well, we become friends. So we're done now sure, like a like, I went to the job son done now, and I have to go again ever no, I have to call you up. And make sure that not too much time goes by before we talk before we get gathered a hanger crazy. I've had to learn that in my own life- and so I do it more with my friends, because otherwise good relationships will just wither away, yes, the nobody means for that to happen so relationships. Require maintenance. Yes, absolutely one of the ways to I've done that practical for myself is. I know in my mind that there are some people that I want to mess every week. Some people that I message once a month and there some people that I speak to every week and there are some people I speak to every month and just being able to cry. Degrees in our life of connection is really help me

because it allows me to understand that this is the level of relationship we have with this person, and we see what that does. Is it becomes more honest because I think we'd like to think that, Everyone in my life is either a best friend or not. A friend like we like to have this very clear black and white, but life isn't like their decision. More degrees of grey so many more shades of grants. For me, it's far more practical to say these are people that up my closest friends, the people I talked to every day that people I talked about everything, but then there are my life tat, I love seeing once a month because there are people Movie way, though there, the people that I go out for dinner wit and then there are people that I see once a year, but their amazing too, because Uganda's great holiday, right or whatever, Maybe right and just knowing that you can have friends for different purposes in different roles in your life, rather than trying to put everyone into one or two which becomes hard pressure for them and for yourself? Yes, yes, that's a really important point. The other thing is that people can move in and out.

Your life. It's not a problem if some relationships do fade away because sometimes only together, because here too, we got brought together by this other thing like we went to college gather or something else happened, and it's ok that relationships don't keep up as long as we keep up some of our relationships. But I think you are absolutely right that that we can also have different degrees of closeness and degrees of involvement and that there is everything right with that, not that there is something wrong with the amazing and end I wanted to move forward into this. You actually went on a three week, silent retreat, Zack Correct. Tell me about what to that when that was in and what you gain from that why it all came about. So I I am then practitioner I meditate every day. How long have you been doing man? Let's talk about you? How did you become asean brackish? None? How did that becomes a

part of your life I became as in asean practitioner by accident thirteen years ago. My son at that time was in middle school and his friend was having a coming of age ceremony. Had I unitarian church and I went and the I sat next to the Mama my son's friend and she knew I was interested in meditation. I dabbled a little. She pointed to the minister conducting the ceremony and said he Zen master. So I called him up and said cry come talk to you and he was this wonderful down to earth teacher and he said I'm sit with our group, so I started sitting regularly with meditation group. Never done that before and and studying with this teacher

and what I found was that once I sat regularly with a group and once I had a teacher, I could meditate at home. He wears before. I couldn't have a regular practice, and then I started going to meditation retreats silent, retreats fer a few days and then maybe a week, and then I graduated to a three week: silent retreat. That's the retreat you're talking about an and tell me about everything in what you learn from what you gain from those three weeks of silence. Ah, well, I learn that my mind is a really difficult place to go two alone, my it's a really yeah like so much comes up when you are watching your mind, and the good thing was that I was with people who could help me understand what was happening, who need help me except the humanness of having busy mind and a mine,

that made me crazy, sometimes at a mind that made me anxious and and that that what this Work was of being on a silent. Retreat was learning my humanness and all the old Neri stuff. That comes up in a mind that that I came. Except more and more and gradually even welcome at, like I would like chuckle and say oh yeah here it is again. This feeling of I'm worthless or the. Feeling of I've done everything wrong in my life or you know, and then I could understand that these are feelings that come and go and that their very natural and that the more I accepted my own mind and and accepted myself the more at ease. I became with everybody and everything in life, so this Three week, work, which was like one of the hardest things I'd ever done was undoubtedly

where the most valuable things I'd ever done and why I allowed you to push through the berry, because I remember the first time I ever did seller meditation when I became among one of them These things I believe, is just getting past. The initial barrier were all you here, is noise and its sold sue meaning and you just like while like there's a lot of who in my mind, going on and on and on and where's, this gonna stop and then usually that's what we give up. Yes, because It's just so frustrating an overwhelming. Yes, what allowed you to break through in and how would you encourage other people to have that breakthrough? It was through support through help from I do. The teachers and what was that support? The support was one in Zan thee edition is innocent to have small interviews like it might be a two minute or a five minute interview with a teacher so you're sitting all day in silence,

then, when it's your turn, you go in. You see the teacher. You tell him or her what's on your mind and they really help you with it. They help you put it in perspective and- and I could be agony for several hours. Then I'd go in and talk to my teacher and she would say to me oh yeah. This is what your mind is doing, and we know about this and pretty soon it's gonna ass and then I go out night sit again by myself in it would pass and it and see and having someone guide you and say yes, and this is what likely to happen- and this is normal was like- The most relieving thing that could happen, and then I began to be able to do that for myself, and that was the key like mornings, I would wake up and say, are my if as a mouse, I could then he. I could then have that perspective of ok. This happens, not going to feel this way two hours from now here and

and its knowing that, with other people's help, that really is transformative. Absolutely I complete, Grew the and among training, was the same and have often said that I think when we first start meditating it, Sir ought to have an immersive experience and be guided experience from masters because I think the challenges that, if we just trying to in our homes immediately it so hard to push through fighting it's amazing when we're using absent during ten minutes a day, and I think those all powerful things, but I'd love to encourage any, who really wants to may meditation a serious practice in their life, just like anything else, when you go and do something for half a day a day a weekend or a week. It becomes so much more natural because not only do you get the time to have the breakthrough, yours have the time to reap the benefits and therefore, when you go back to your ten minutes a day or twenty minutes a day whatever it may be, you have that conviction and confidence that this is actually worked before exactly exactly

And don't hesitate to search for a guide, a teacher who you resonate with that you won't resonate everybody and, if you're lucky enough to have a future for in your local vicinity or even online, that you could study with find it's like a man, making find somebody who feels like you want to learn from them and trust them till you wrote an article about the full powers of quiet or how why it can transform our lives and the first quiet you took. What is quiet helps clarify what most important now and tomorrow we share what you mean by that for us. Yes, that often when I'm caught up in the business of my day, I get distracted by so many things and I think- that's really important- that I that I need to do here- these emails right now or, and then, if I stop

when this happens, when I meditate each day on the the swirl of emails receipts and an eye, and what begins to emerge is something more from my heart, which is all I need to call my son cause, I I'm and talk to him in a while, or I really don't want to be involved in that project because there's something about it. That doesn't feel right to me and often it's only when I'm quiet. That my intuition can can talk to me right that my gut feelings of that probably not a place. I wanna be involved, or I really need to spend more time here, it's only during the, Why is it that my inner voice will start making noises and talking yeah. I love that. I completely agree with you. It's it's. A true, because otherwise the noise just completely,

overshadows everything else and you so robot was listening to our intuition, I intrusion gets buried in the noise and you can't hear you in a voice in the noise and so yeah hundred percent with the second one was quiet, allow space for containment enjoy yes, so today I had been in out morning. Discussion that you were in, and so many ideas whirling around in my head was spinning in my head- was kinda gettin, heavy and then I said, I need to take a break and I went out- and I said: ok, I'm gonna sit by the lake and employee watch and So I have watched the water, and I watched these birds playing. The reeds and I watched and aunt crawling up my hand and and everything just kind of quieted down in, and I found myself listening to the birds and

and then feel like. Oh, my God, the birds are so amazing and an that's often what happen in a meditating, silent Mediterranean industry, where people will come into interviews and say, did you know they Herbert outside because suddenly they here with a vividness, something that just recedes into the background all the time and that in hearing the vividness sudden, vividness of a sound aura or an or a site, gives us joy, and so that's what that's what the emerging for me. I love that add. The federalist QUIET reveals the emptiness of chasing after the next big thing. Oh yes, so I work at Harvard Medical School and, needless to say, Harvard Medical School places, a lot of importance on accomplishment and honours and titles, and of course,

inspires a lot of good work. I mean Harvard Medical School is full of wonderful people, I'm right people and carrying people bad this chasing honours and recognition and titles can be endless and for what I find is that this quiet and this practice of returning to, it makes you realize. Ok, I dont really need that next title and if I got that next award get a warm feeling for about ten minutes, and then it would be done. And so what do I really want to invest my time and is it working for that award or is it working for something that I care deeply about? That might not be as right or shiny or well recognised, amazing. I love the and the fourth one is quiet, reminds us that we can be happy with less he ass well,.

Because the so, for example, to day I went out and sat by the lake that didn't cost anything it didn't require any special equipment heads it was nothing. It was me going and sitting down and so and it is also simplicity. So You realize we, we are constantly told to buy things. And to pay for new experiences and what you re Is that just sitting still and paying attention brings a kind of joy and a kind of happiness that requires no resources whatsoever. I love that absolutely so true.

There's so many times in our day that a free activity could actually end up saving us, not just money but saving us internally, yes, and then it's completely free, it costs nothing. Apart from time yes and a bit of presents yes and energy and attention, but many people will say to me: oh, I can't sit still and meditate. I hear that all the time must hear it all the time right and I think it's because First, our minds are really busy yeah and active. In that scary. And so, as you say it's pushing through, allowing yourself enough time for things to quiet down? Yes, well, I do I'll buy. You like I've been so I've been meditated for two hours a day for the past thirteen years of my life she's been a huge part of my life, and I find that, even today, because I myself living a very productive lifestyle and travel- and social media and everything it takes me even when I

our meditating every morning. It takes me around ten minutes to just reach choir yeah, maybe even fifteen may twenty seven items, and so, if we only meditate for ten minutes and that's what we ve only ever done, I'm not surprised that we only ever hear noise, yes, because if you like, someone has won over, we got to do. Meditations is eight hours, long and twelve hours long and in that was really painful. Excruciating first, as you said, but when you pushed through and so that's why I'm incurring any one is listening watching his do that and I'm not going to do to ours and sting you to go to a clause so go find. A teacher would have undue do half an hour with someone like going dive that step further, where you can have that breakthrough, and it's almost like the Jim to its like the day you go too far.

They go to the gym is not the day you walk out with the six pack or walk out with any of that. It's also not the day that you fall in love and all the machines makes sense to you and you know what to do. It takes time and practice and meditation is no different. It's just a habit that takes a breakthrough and- and I think we have to be patient with it too, to have that breakthrough, exactly and to have the experiences which we do have sometimes of really feeling better. Feeling more settled of feeling more joy that we have to get to a point where we are Those experiences to know that there are available to us and that they will happen at it. That's exactly yeah, and that requires a bitter through, so I'm encouraging everyone is listening and watching too just take that step through to recognise that even after meditating for long amount of time, not just myself, everyone that I know it still takes time to quiet in the mind and when you that meditations, who don't judge yourself, don't be harder?

self, don't be harsh on yourself. It's not that you have a name stop mind or any of that. It's it's just that we duly very busy hectic scheduled lives. The other thing we might encourage near donors to think about is noticing those places not wear are formally sitting in meditating, but those places withered so absorbed in their life that they don't even think about it. Time just passes yet it could be that you are sometimes like I have a friend who's, a carpenter and he finds it sometimes when he's woodworking he's just in his own. Some people are down the slope and they don't think about anything there. Just in it, and- and so you may find, my wife play The piano and she said to the piano- is her meditation, because when she is practising the piano she's just

lost in it. She doesn't think about anything else, she's just in the zone, and so I would suggest to people that they might whether there are places in their lives could be. Gardening could be anything see if there are He says that are like that, for you, new points of time and whether you could enjoy those for what they are, which is a kind of meditative practising in itself, and do the more often and do them are often so I wanted to speak about this because I have heard you say before you speak about secure attached and I really was fascinated by those two words and I wanted to read. Understand a what secure attachment is and be. How do we practise it? Yes, so attachment is. The route, the fact that, as human beings, we need other human beings from the time were born. In fact, as we know, we can

survive as inference unless we are connected with at least one other person, who will give us care and an just surround us with care when were young? in fact, what we know is that children in orphanages die if they are not given love and not just that you can have all your material needs met. You can be fed and changed but you will die if you're not given some kind of love, you have to be able to attach to another being, and we used to think that this was simply something that children needed and then we realised that it goes all the way through the lifecycle. It just takes a slightly different form so at a secure attachment Adulthood is a relationship where you feel that somebody really has your back, that they will provide a safety net for you, as I said before,

they are the person you could call in the middle of the night if you're, scared or sick, that to feel like somebody in the world who will be there for you and you can have more than one person and you can replace attachment figures with new people over and we do so initially their parents, but then it can be friends can be lovers, it can be children grown children, but have people like that in your life is, is a secure attachment and part of secure attachment is feeling like that person will support you in taking risks. So well as an adult. If I want to try something new so, for example, now taking singing lessons. No,

I used to think I never thought I could sing, but there's this great singing teacher in our community and say like like doing dear cause, I never thought I could sing at all, so my wife said doing come on. What do you have to lose? She's supported me ensuring something new when ass. If she had said, oh you, you can't carry a tune, don't you do it? I would have shrunk back and said no, so that support in venturing out into the world is what it attached meant figure. A secure attachment relationship can do for us, yeah, that's beautiful yeah. I love how that apply. So much your compare so well with what you said about children. That one with children. We also need a secure attachment to take risks exact. So when we first out walking you of your mother or father help, you walk when you first right up

you have someone is running behind you and pushing you along and we need, as we young, as were kids. We need secure attachment to take risks, and I think we forget that road us. In fact, if you if you ever in a park with a mother or a dad and a toddler. You can see this happen. A toddler will tentatively start walking away from the parent and then start playing and then something will have. And maybe a bird will tweet or some sound will frighten the child and the run back to the parent grabbed. Their leg spend a little time there and then venture out again and that's what we do as adults. You know we seek comfort and then we can venture back out into the world and take risks, and I love that point specifically. I think it's true that we all need secure genuine, but I, like the point that when we have this your attachment, we can actually break forward, and what about the those of us who?

sometimes feel like and eyed, and I don't argue for land is reflecting on some moments in my life, some of the biggest moments in my life, which were high risk. Oh hi transitions? I urge you didn't, have a secure attachment for the decision so as to secure TAT one in the family, my mom and out of always loved me, but they didn't necessarily always not that they disagreed but didn't always promote my decisions and in that I've had to take my own, be my, secure attachment to really push forward. If I never I never become a monk if I never do that, I would never have left being a monk and if I never did that alone, I would never have switched in transition into doing what I do as my purpose today, because when I had that secure attachment of my, my parents also worried for my health and safety or longevity with their parental image, which was correct, fray

When I first on my mama was going to move away from my successful corporate job to try and teach what I've been share. What I was doing on social media me, my mother, she looked to me like. Are you serious, like. Why do you need to do that? And so why do you need to take a risk and so many people around me a always had that I've always found that some of the best decisions in my life I had to take alone. Yes, the news help me understand that a bit more from. Let's, that's such a good question, so I think what happens is we can internalize? We can take in that function that close people parents can provide for us, so your parents, probably allowed you to fail at some things and helped you with the failures, oh, you came home and you didn't do well in a soccer match. More, you know some else happened or you didn't do well on an exam and your parents helped you see that it was

the end of the world right and that you could get a euro pick yourself up and go back out their men that experience and being helped through that experience problem over and over again allows you then to do it for yourself right and that's what you're saying so that then you can have the courage to check in on your own internal compass so You know no surprise that your mother wasn't saying sure go leave your corporate jobs were more sure, go often be among dear. Oh, you know that's, and so how do you do that? You're asking? How do you do that for yourself, and I think it's probably because somewhere along the way people helped you internalize that function of being able to

allow yourself to take the risk. Allow yourself to anticipate, I could feel at this, and I will be ok. I will take care of myself and other people will take care of me if you, yes, it must be. Able to fit it's the taking the risk of being able to fail that allows you to take risks. I think, that's beautiful anything you spot on, because I remember that when I put badly at school. Or when I'd have some sort of challenge in a grade or in a closed with sport. My parents would highlight it on that day or on that evening. So when my parents had come back from a parent teacher conference, whatever was thousand, is the most never same thing in the world just waiting for your parents to combat and you scared, where you teaches agendas- and I already knew what my teachers are going to say because I natural x out in some things in didn't in others. Yet- and I was always excelling other things, my parents do care about it and didn't excellent things. My parents do care about and so

they got back. I knew that I would have to hear it that day, but then the next day they were back to normal. Yes, an that's kind of I don't know. I've did is the first time lacking on that. But I found it. I worked for me because it helped me reflect enough to know. I wanted to improve and grow would help me not judge myself. The next day said I could start afresh again and I think some biggest challenges we have is that we keep judging ourselves based on one event: one grade a one moment right Daily Gregory, almost extend our judgment based on one day or one failure, and we keep applying that judgment to herself for, yes and and nothing relieving ourselves of that judgment on a daily basis of you in becoming his empress, takes a drive you for about men all or how that works for yourself and others, I'm sure judgment so much so what we we talk about in in medicine

she's in Zen. Is the judging mind the mind of right and wrong? We call it and how easy it is to slip in to the mind right and wrong. I'm right about this, I'm wrong about that. Were or you're right about this or you're wrong about that, and that that meditation helps us to have a bigger perspire. Where right and wrong are often kinda. Really, and kind, and not that important- that, of course, there's things that are terribly important. You know about moral, moral codes and, and a moral compass of course- but then often the right and wrong like well, yet didn't, do so well at math. Ah, but in the grandson things in a we look beyond these. These. These judgments, see beyond the judging mind to the bigger world where you know we look at that tree and we dont say. Oh. I wish that tree

had branches the were little more like this, or that tree is not the leaves I dont like the design of those leaves so well. We never do that because we because nature is beyond the mind of right and wrong it is beyond this judging and end so in San part of the teaching is, can we get beyond this in of ourselves and others that we just come forward in the world as we are, and that's fine that like that tree coming forward, as it is one of the core principles of then that have really captive to do in other lessons, like that. I love that point just made around nature beyond the judgment of the mind what else what are the other themes that have really stood out to? You is corporal, as if your practice in journey, one of the core pillars is too,

understand how completely interconnected- I am with everything in the world, everything so that I am not. Going out to be in nature. I am completely part of nature in every moment here and that we, you and I are sharing the same air, we are not separate in so many ways and so again. That idea then becomes if, if I win and you lose, I lose nearer. If we'd, if we don't all rise together, nothing can work so so this intercourse goodness has become something that I know more in my bones. Yes, that I raised is pay lip service to the hair, intellectually, but now I am, I think, meditation really helps me get that yeah in a way that I

quite get before. I love that one thing you spoke for me: there is with the interconnectedness. I had this reflection, if I think is a couple years ago, but it was in my study of the buggy Gaeta and I was reflecting on a lot of these statements that we here today of manifestation attraction the universe responding and I was well I hear statements being thrown around or becoming popular culture. I I refer and reflect on where's that compromise the route of that statement. Ling where where's the truth in that just like you would check in a study, it's like the music when checking to study, but I want to check in the buggy in these texts and sealed it is that come from. Is it real or is it just something someone's manufactured and one thing that I came across, which ITALY share with you, because I think it applies to what you are saying and I love to hear your perspective on it. Is I found that if you observe nature carefully, which you ve so beautifully said that we are a path and we all need

it's not that I'm going into nature. We are nature. If we look at and observe nature carefully, nature is always serve. So. The sun is always providing heat and light trees, always providing oxygen in shade the trees always providing fruits flowers that a beautifully scented the water is always providing water to drink. You look at anything in nature it only serving, and so therefore, the only way to align with nature and to be one with nature and to be nature, is to serve and that actually all of our problems come from not serving because we're underlined from nature. So when we talk about the universe, responding to us the universe, responds only when you are lined within the union to be in line to the universe is to serve because that's what the universe does right does not make sense, yes makes total sense and that the not serving because I I can be assessed,

as the next year's needs right yeah slowly and that the impulse not to serve is comes in me from a place of scarcity like there's not going to be enough right and what you're describing is that nature is his way more than enough. There is this kind of form this about the world yet and that we are part of that foreigners and when we know that, then we are free to serve. Then it's not about. Am I gonna get enough what I need it that I already have much more than I could ever need yeah, absolutely You spoke about the one when we used to buy the spiritual wasted, a material realm look about how you, a realm were used to things being finite. When you going to the theatre, a cinema is a finite number of seats. If you don't want to sports gained as a finite number of seats, if you looking to apply for a job is a finite number of jobs, it's always limited for thirty applicants, a thousand applicants, twenty five applicants, sixty thousand

tickets available for the World CUP whatever may be, and we always talk about how you know in the theatre of happiness is an unlimited amount of sea. There is no limit on the amount of seats in the theatre of happiness at the theatre of well being yes, because that's not reserved for a specific type of person. I love that image. The other thing I would say to refine a little believe is I want to that says that maybe in the theatre of happiness, there is a particular see. That's yours, yes, agreed agreed. Hundreds. That absolutely even if we think about aligning with the universe, I a line with the universe. By becoming like you correctly, or like anybody else. I aligned with the universe by fine where I fit Hunt Emerson and where you know it.

See feeling my way through life in the world right absolutely, and it is a quote from Joseph Campbell that I absolutely love love just he's a new you ve. I bet you ve used as Oda, but the quote is: if the path before you is clear, your probably on somebody else's it's this idea that we find our seat in the theater happiness right. We find our seat in the theatre of Service right, so I'm not going to serve in the same way you are and- and so my job is not to become as much light You as I cannot do. That would be great. I actually now not to allow I'm totally yeah yeah? I either many qualities I admire, but I think it's off it there and that's probably importance when we look at other but we admire. We look at a you know a facebook page it we say. I want that life,

Actually that's not what we want. We really want to find where our energy leads us and where we'll line in the universe and and then has really taught me that I love that. I- and I agree that, actually, when we inspired by this qualities- and we see the qualities that allowed them to access in open and grow whatever it is. These qualities that thing we can be imbibing, as opposed to be once, and I find that that's where we always end up is we observe people's external journey on their internal? journey right. Where's the internal journey is actually similar. Is the external Jenny that's exact any of the entire Journey of self exploration- requires a lot of the similar things. Will go through breakthroughs and breakdowns in but the external journey doesn't need to be the same at all, no and an it shouldn't be either in it. It doesn't really Whenever a wheels- and I was I was saying that yesterday- and I remember us connecting-

sharing? It was their disdain indicated that says better to practice your own path, even if imperfectly than to practise the path of another perfectly yes and often so much of our life is lost in trying to practise someone else's path. Right, as yours have come board who said perfectly levels from a perfect right, what else is journey and that's why we climb up the ladder and get to the top and go where this is not the tower. I wanted to be The top of you know this isn't a wall that was meant to climb and what we forget that the internal. Journey is so similar right that we look external journeys and say well, that's different from minor? I should be more like that, but the internal journey is similar for almost all of us and there it is They're saying I leave that that we're always comparing our insides to other people's outside. Yes, right that you know because other people you know are putting on their game face, and you know we do. We have to do that. Freedom,

there in the world, but really it's our inner experience that so similar and at when we can share it. At the moment that are magical between people amazing. I love that so in very he and I then fashion we're going to end with what I call a quick fire rapid fire around. So we do these final five questions on every episode and the final five actions have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum so pretty sure you can be absolutely fine, this better, like I said we will do and I'll probably get lost in it, because our probably love your answers and, alas, do more, but the request one is: you ve said that giving our full attention to things is one of the all these things to do what something you always give you full attention to my patience and when I'm doing psychotherapy with somebody my job is to be fully present and and and

I am. I do nothing else. I there's nothing else set up, it's just the two of us, so in fact, I'm probably is fully present with you, as I ever am because weave cleared out most distractions. Yes, so so I guess it was be that I give my full attention when I set up the conditions to be right for doing there. Ah, like like you, ve done here, death or like I do with patients or when I'm lucky- and I remember like I do with my wife when she wants to tell me about her day- it's something that did I after engineer, and then I can be fully present. Amazing, fantastic question. Number two you ve been Your wife for over thirty years is their right. What's your favorite, best relationship advice that you can give me my audience Remember that the relationship is going to change and that's ok, that each person is gonna, grow and develop and that that's not apply

so that things are gonna, wax and win that you know some of the fish compassion just isn't gonna? Be there all the time some of them General excitement of being together isn't gonna, be there all the time, and that is being mean, there's anything wrong with the relationship. It means that the really Japan is a living vibrant thing. You ever loved the question on the three. If you could have everyone in the world do an experiment for thirty days and there would be doing one activity everyday for thirty days. What would it be? It would be to meditate everyday for thirty, two, no convincing, ok questionable for what's the first thing you do when you wake up, apart from brushing teeth, showering idea that normal I'm a meditative yet perfect, and you ve been doing that for. Now, thirteen years their meeting and the fifth and final question. What is one trade that you think you have That is allowed you to create a life that you

Today. What is one quality or trade or characteristic that you have? The you think he's been integra lying in Prague adding happiness and well being in your life, but you see me a very happy, and I think it's our willingness to say I don't know and too try new things and learn from people and to say please teach me, because I don't know what I'm doing here, that I think that's that's! That's the thing that I would hold onto of all the things that that of all the qualities. I have that's the thing I would hold onto because it's a cause. It's it's. Allow me again to all these new things that I never dreamed. I would be doing absolutely thank you again row of doing this. Thank you for the pleasure of being here on green compromise. We enjoyed it. Yet I really really. We got totally lost where I wanted to get our side

our, although in a good way, no no good. While I was one a good podcast interview for me is when we go beyond the page, and so my questions give me structure and points to push on, but then, after that I want those points, led to deepen things in that's what they states yeah. I've already enjoyed this conversation on her personal yeah me too, and I'm excited forever under here in favour on who hasn't seen. Doctoral voting is TED Talk here. Please please, please go check it out its awesome it's far less time than they, so you probably lands from things from animal, really give you understanding of this study. As well, which has been so well documented and talked mind, so many areas If you want to go to the source of that study, that TED Talk is the one to watch. It's already been viewed ever like twenty seven million times of crazy, like that. So pleased with this.

But I dont rubber wording- is there any other way that my voting can follow? You see your work or read your articles and stay connected. Yes, they can go to our study website, which is called our development study, dot org and they can go to our foundation website, which is like Span research, dot, Org,. And I just want to say one more thing, which is that I can see when I get away really. I do too editor. Definitely thank you. I make side for many more conversations online and offline it. We can really dive deep into a few things, I did the thank you so much. You lazy.