Spiritual pioneer, teacher and New York Times best-selling author Gary Zukav and his wife Linda Francis discuss spiritual partnerships. Gary and Linda share what they’ve identified as “phases of a deeply connected relationship.” The couple describes the unusual way they met, their perspective on lasting love and how spiritual partnerships can help you find greater joy and happiness in life. Gary and Linda are co-founders of The Seat of the Soul Institute. Gary also talks about the inspirations for his book “Spiritual Partnership: The Journey to Authentic Power.” More than six million copies of Gary’s books are in print and translations have been published in 32 languages.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I'm Oprah Winfrey welcome to supersede conversations the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gives you can give yourself is time taking time to be more fully present Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us start right now, if you were a regular Oprah show, viewer carries Zukav is probably a familiar face in order to find true, meaning purpose enjoying our lives. Gary says we have to create authentic power, which he defines as the alignment of your personality with your soul. According to Gary, your relationships play a key role in your spiritual development. I wanted to talk to Gary and his wife,
then to France's about their relationship or, as they call it, their spiritual partnership, and what better way to do that then by inviting them to join me under the oaks. In my own backyard, to talk about one of my favorite topics, spiritual partnership. Which also is a subject of Gary's latest book. We spent a lot of time talking about authentic power, and how that comes to us, and now you ve written a book called spiritual partnerships. The journey to often take power, which I find so fascinating that you use the concept of being a spiritual partner. I learned from the upper show. A spiritual partnership is a partnership between equals.
Sometimes we nevertheless virginals Roma are the purpose of spiritual gruff. How we use a spiritual partnership to create often take power. How do we do that? Creating effective power is reason that a spiritual partnership happens in other words, then deny or spiritual partners. I am committed to my spiritual grove to creating authentically power. Linda is committed to her spiritual growth. I can't created for her. She can't created for me, but I can support and she could support me and, as you began, to be calm, someone who is more interested in becoming emotionally aware taking responsibility for what you create
then in blaming other people, you draw other people to you who are doing the same. So when you offers met Linda, were you spiritual partners immediately? We actually we were immediately. I met Gary Atmosphere, George, he was giving a workshop on one our talk actually, but I had read the dancing woolly masters and the seat of the soul. And so I met him a few years after the seat of the soul had been written, and so when I, when I met him, I felt like we were. Connected, and I didn't understand that I just felt that I didn't think he thought that, but I felt that we were by the universe. So immediately, though Gary began to talk to me in ways that I'd never had any one on a man especially talk to me. He began.
Tell me things about himself that he was experiencing, in other words, are I'll. Give you an example. He told me that he felt like he didn't want to hug me and other were all these people their retreat. He didn't want to be near me. He didn't want to hug me and he didn't understand that any felt like there was something, going on with him, and so he wanted to discover what that was, and he didn't want to stop me from hugging him or whatever I I need wanted to do, but that he because he knew there was something going on so that was so novel to me to have someone actually say what was really going on with them, really that I was excited about the possibility of having more. Conversely, We have a case of what was going on with you that you would say to her. Don't hug me, he didn't say, don't hug me. He just say that I feel like there's a part of me that doesn't want to hug you, and I dont know what what that is or why there
and I want to discover what we're in really in touch with yourself, that you can say that while it was quite ass, I could not see it, though this was a retreat with a lot of people there for new ways to use. At her. Lotta hugging going on and it was one person your ages love to her. They do, but I love to hug too. Yes, oh well, I guess that means anyway. So Linda was there and she the one person I didn't want to hug, and I noticed she gives two minute hugs and I didn't want from one from her. So I thought that's an anomaly that that's that's very unusual. Why is this happening? I didn't feel attracted to her in any way. In fact, I felt pushing her away and I- and she was the only person I felt this way about, so I decided to talk to her about it and
what I said, I won't reject your love. Initiatives are very loving person and I do mean romantic love. I was a secular monkey to time. While so that's that's Can I tell you, start is started, and I and the biggest I've met him in this. Four bargain. I gotta tell ya whenever I knew I was being connected with him, not inter I've. I've had many attractions in my life form attracted to someone, and but I felt that was really from fear based parts of my personality them wanted to find someone that would completely yes It wasn't like that at all. Yes, so whenever you're it looking for a partner because you want to find that ports. I actually said this to Tom Cruise a long time ago that that movie Jerry Maguire, you complete me, really messed alot of people up, because so many people
Oh you know. Every year our urban there wasn't a dry in the movie theater and all the women whether we can achieve complete in when, in fact no one complete you know now. In fact, there is no way I could have been in our relationship, a spiritual partnership with Jerry. Had I not done the work that I had done it myself, because I really got it one time when I had a relationship before I met Gary, I had been looking for someone to be the right one. Yes, and until I was in tremendous pain over feeling betrayed which of course, you know I mean I had flags everywhere, but I didn't want to look at them. I didn't want to see what was going on. I was in denial, but once I saw what was happening and allowed myself to feel the pain of that and he
I was able to say I am not going to be around you anymore, because I really am going to be the right person from myself. Basically- and I did I created a wave or I was the right person instead of an changed myself rather trying to find someone to complete me, which really changed everything- and I know I would ever met Gary. Had I not done what I've done the work for there's no way. I think that so powerful what you just said residents with me- and I know that many people hearing it will the reason I'm emphasise again, so you can really hear it that, instead of looking for the right person, work to make yourself the right person for you, and the right person will then be drawn to you based upon the work that you have done for yourself. That's it that's what I hear you sound sinks everybody who looking for somebody and believe me, there are lots of people who are like looking for Mister,
it or MS right or whatever, that is to complete them. I am so grateful to that person. That was my life at that time, because I really use that as an opportunity to change everything from myself and show wind the idea that, first of all, the definition is so for me clear and poignant: a spiritual partnership, a partnership between equals for the purpose of spiritual growth. Let's go through each phase of that definition. What do you mean by a partnership between because if you look at the people around you, some of them are stronger. Sir, I am are weaker. Some of them can draw, some of them can ride. Some of them are one
for mothers and others are wonderful carpenters. All of the inequality that you see are all characteristics of a personality. So when you connect with somebody and you feel equal, that is a soul to Seoul connection, personalities are not equal. Gotcha personalities are not equal, souls are correct. Equality is understanding. That there is nothing in no one in the universe, more important than you.
And there is nothing in no one in the universe, less important than you are right now, here's the thing that equality can teach you if you don't feel equal, you're, going to feel either superior or inferior and both superiority and inferiority our experiences of parts of the personality that originated fear. Yes, I get that is not possible to enter a spiritual partnership is an equal except sold, a soul If you're not equal, then you re their superior, our feeling superior ran farrier, and if you are feeling one of those in you know, their frightened part of your personality is active. So when I'm with Linda, for example, or what you or with any one that I'm a spiritual partner. When I try to. Use emotional awareness, see my feeling inferior, my trying to please my distorting who I am because I want something from somebody or just their smile or my feeling
superior and entitled- and I don't care do what you want. Who I am an end, but there's no connection There's no connection either. One of those is affrightened part of my personality, and I know that I want to challenge it talk about what spiritual growth is, because you know it is spirituality, is a dirty word for a lot of people whose country, unfortunately, really rare what I mean is too May spirituality means becoming more aware. Ok, more responsible, looking at everything as sacred learning to interact with others in a way that is reverent, creating harmony in cooperation in sharing. How can that be anything but wonderful? And how can it be anything but extraordinarily challenge. I would agree with you, but I think a lot of people when you use the word spiritual people, think that or you trying to tell people how to be religious. Are you trying to talk about religious beliefs which
it is not. It is four May, following the the pathway of your spirit, its living with an open heart and a willingness to see the possibility for all. That is your life. That's what spiritual path scenes for me as what it means. For me also having to do with the sole, don't go anywhere more to come after this short break is episode, is supported by hallmark cards. We say I love you too, the people we care about all the time so much so that sometimes it can start to feel a little bit like a habit if you're king for a way to make those three little words mean a little more this Valentine's day. Try sing them with a hallmark card, because when you share your love in a hallmark, hard you're taking that everyday reminder and turning it into the kind of love they can hold on to that stays with them long after Valentine's day since hallmark has so many kinds of Valentine's day cards. You can find one for every important relationship in your life this year.
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I feel that our married dont have a special partnership. Yes, Molly people that are married do not have a spear yellowish yet, but they can begin to develop one, that's what's so exciting. So Gary and I had a spiritual partnership first and then we decided to have a spiritual partnerships only out get married, but one portage, but one of the things you say about spurts of partnerships. Spiritual partnerships do not necessarily mean that you are there till death. Do you part? No, does not know if Gary decided not to create authentic power anymore than we couldn't be a spiritual partnership. It wouldn't work or if I did, that we wouldn't be in a spiritual, but you could still have your marriage. We could yet glad we got the yes, but that wouldn't happen, because our relationship is spiritual partner. It's not marriage, that's what brought together. We got married because I love Linda and she loves me and we wanted to take care of each other. We must take care of our children and our grandchildren.
So we got married, I didn't love her more or less. I love her. I may what we're in life together and were spiritual partners. So, let's clarify you, a spiritual partnership is a partnership between equals for the purpose of spiritual growth, and you have multitudes of spiritual partnerships in your lifetime. You sure you are blessed Unfortunate, if you can be married to or be in a partnership, romantic partnership. Even though romantic system is an illusion with someone
who you are also a spiritual partner with. I think it's wonderful to be a spiritual partnered with someone that I live with and we work together. We create together. She brings up every part of my personality, that's frightened who, as well as loving, because that is what sort of partnerships do that they hit your button Scandia. Indeed, now everyone presses your buttons, but spiritual partners know the third together in order to grow spiritually, and so the buttons will be pressed the button, it will be press does that's the point. The point is that when the buttons or pressed down not try to work, things out come to compromises, but they tried to, for example, and a was ask me, as you think, you're in a frightened part of your personality or loving part that come from love or from fear what was your and
pension for saying not to try to make me feel better or wrong, but to help me become more aware so that I can make responsible choices. There's a big question and a lot of people who you know what on this team. Wanted you to do you all argue absolute we do have arguments we still do, but we catch them much quicker. I mean like some agreements. Absolutely we get us power struggle antiquity that happens that lesson You should do the same for you, yes, but what I know now having oh shit, irritate frightened parts of my personality and activate, and so there was a beautiful way to describe. You took me off. Were you make me upset you cause me to be.
He triggers the fear and anger or whatever and shit activates an interior dynamic in me. Yes- and I experience and I become say, irritable or angry yes and more distant or additional shut down. That's what a lot of men do exactly set yourself down. And then you I'll do my best to act from the most loving part of my personality. I can reach for that's a response instead of a reaction. Yes- and this is more than semantics, so much more to say she takes me off, means that I, who I am the ground of my being, is upset, but I know that is just a part of my personality. I've experienced it before and I'm not gonna be controlled by it and, in any spiritual part,
a ship you are in a spiritual agreement that this person is there to bring out the best and also the most fearful part of yourself? I just want to read from chapter sixteen year on the sole summary in spiritual partnerships. Spurts of partnership is partnership between equals, of the purpose of spiritual growth, got that friendships are not and sole one another empathize with one another sympathise with one another, so try to make each other feel better when their feeling bad they'll celebrate when they're happy, but they won't ever try. They won't ever help their friend look at where these experiences are coming from spiritual partners. Do you know if a friend has a friend who gets divorced and his in paying essay audits, Skype, gonna, be ok, look she'll, come back
pain or say, Alex Sky, it's gonna be ok, look she'll, come back or don't worry about it, you're a great guy. They try to ease each other's pains, and I wish you might put it this way. Friends, huddled together to keep from being buffet it by the wind. Spiritual partners want to know where the winds comfort. Ah, friends, don't wanna rock the boat spiritual partners, loved swim to sing with marriage partners to marriage partners, dont want to rock the boat God at, but spiritual. Well, it was faint. She could not go like what is not quite like that. It's not quite like that summit level. Let me finish the last year and we can respond anyway. Went friendships are not swear to partnerships, that's very clarifying,
Let me finish the last year and we can respond anyway. What friendships are not spur to partnerships? That's very clarifying because you're right friends say come on in its gonna, be ok, you're gonna get through it, and you know why you do that because it's too hard to do the other thing, if you say to your friend who's, going through a difficult time. I think maybe you need to look at yourself and to see why this is happening to you. You didn't get pissed off, but it's not exactly saying that either you could say in a way it is, but in a way of saying, when are in pain, helping them to develop emotional awareness. What are your thoughts she so she's, no good. Why did I even think about that or how my ever gonna get someone like her again or what are your thoughts will always be judgmental critical, so they can get to know this part of their personality. Then comes the wonderful part, the powerful part, so that they can recognise it as a part of their personality. Ok, only spiritual partners,
can satisfy individuals were creating authentic power, meaning if you are looking to be a person who lives authentically with your life. You are not going to be in a relationship with somebody who isn't gonna, give that back is nine wedge? Why have? If I want to be responsible for what I do, what I say in what I create What I want. Somebody who wants to take care of me or make me feel better or not support me in which the most important thing to me, which is becoming aware and using my life in a loving way and giving the gifts that I was born to give why I'm is not that I would disdain the com Many have anyone who doesn't feel that way. But there did you hear the drought is a spiritual being that's what you want, and other people who feel the same way will be drawn will be drawn to the spiritual partner stay together as long as they go altogether. Yes, they choose their own roles. They say
things are most afraid will destroy their partnership. Absolutely. Will that definitely is none. I urge and I know that not enough is difficult, but it also, if you dont, say those things, then you end up having a relationship. That's not it! That's the superficial or there's all that buried repressed energy and the relation. Ok, can you grow spiritually without a spiritual partner? I grew spiritually without us. Apparently a long time himself with absolutely I did, but but its, but I I really wanted to accelerate my growth and oh boy, spiritual partnership, accelerator growth, because there is no hiding anymore. There's no in others, no parts of the personality that are going to be unknown to me, because my partners is going support me so where it really beans, because I know a lot of people get hung up on the word spiritual.
What it really means is that you are in agreement to be in relationship with somebody who is going to do nothing other than tell the absolute truth, they're going to tell you the truth, be the truth and in ways known and unknown to you bring out the truth in you if you, if you're willing to look at it, that that makes it sound, brutal and some people are like ok, but that's not exactly what we haven't. Ok the budgets that sort of small like this dance, you to question is yes, but there is a matter of intention and timing and appropriate, ok involved, I would say Oprah. We I invite you to be my spiritual partner, and this is how it works. If you think you see something about me that you think I dont see and that it would benefit me if I did see, would you tell me I'd appreciate
It works like that. An end is not as brutal and the way I got his brutal is being on a neat both rocking it all the time will, as some people would say, it's the honest truth. I think you are inadequate to see on his truth. I think you are cheap, say, honest truth, I don't think you're being honest with yourself. It's the intention behind it. It's the intention to support someone in creating one cent I see I see now. Here's the thing Linda might say something to me, and I said if you think you see something in me, because it may be that what you see doesn't have to do with me. It may be something that has to do with you and your projecting it onto me. But if I have a reaction, if I get irritable or upset or once you to mind your own business- and I know that you said something that I would benefit for, you hit a nerve. You recognised affrightened part of my personal
that is what is meant by hidden earth. Yes, if I had a reaction, we know that any procedure buttons and you have a reaction. That is a valuable experience. Yes, an opportunity and that moment to have more awareness to bring more consciousness and to have a spiritual rowing moment, which may specifically not act on my irritability on my anger on my judgment and instead challenge long act on it. I see, though, in the moment where somebody says something to you and you think how dare you say that to me or how dare you treat me that way? That is a moment. You can chat to look inside yourself in challenge. What that? What that, how dare you attitude is coming from those two not act on that energy, and that is the vat is the very moment of creating often took power? That's when you gain spiritual traction
That's when you change your life. You know it's amazing I just went to, and I do mean amazing. The term is over used all the time, but I just recently went to visit a school in Fairfield Iowa, Marie She School of enhancement where kindergartners to twelve graders, all meditate. Twice a day and I was speaking to an eight year old and asking the eight euro house- you know what were they effects of meditation for her and she said I dont really now, but I like it. I just know that when I'm upset with my brother, I meditate it makes me feel better than that,
challenging affrightened part of a person is in that it doesn't have the vocabulary yet, but it still the same dynamic she recognizes when she's upset and which she chooses to do as meditate. Yes, someone else, my eight at a at eight, exactly an adult, might choose to read something from the Bible or to chant or to home, or to walk by a string. You could do you can challenge a friend part of your personality and myriad ways, but the dynamic once you see, is clear when you feel fear inside of you. If you act on it, it'll create pain. If you don't, you can choose otherwise, and you can choose to create something constructive and when you do that, you start to create often took power. You become master in your own life, so our spiritual partnerships are partners show up in a multitude of ways. I started out by saying that it's not just the people that you are in intimate relation
ship with, though, obviously you would want your intimate relationship to be spiritual partnerships. So what about all the single people, all the single Ladys, all the single Ladys and all the single men who really even though they haven't been able to articulate and are looking for that if you're looking for somebody to complete you you're going to draw to your somebody, was looking for you to complete them if you're looking for someone who fits the image of a wife and a conventional, fish and than in your draw someone who's looking for the same thing, if you're, looking to become more aware in your life and more responsible you'll attract people who are looking for the same thing and social partners don't commit to bringing the best and worst out of each other's.
Happen anyway, just being alive, people are gonna pusher buttons, but they are committed to growing spiritually. I loved what you said on page one or two would lending. I began our journey together. My need to be adored in order to feel safe and valuable interlocked perfectly with her need to be in a relationship with a man in order to feel safe and valuable. That's fascinating and true enter yes, and the challenges are beyond anything. I've found and the rewards are way be dna that I could have imagined he just laughed when you said that challenges are beyond any that you found why I'm everybody so thrilled to hear that I know my staff there are like listening at the aren't ya thrill Gary and Linda have challenges yeah. I guess everybody's like is like
List for you all, the time we actually being on a spiritual partnership is the hardest thing. I've ever done, ever done, because there was no denial. It was always looking at myself and it was very painful as the beginning. It was like all the time I just kept seeing things about myself and wanting to blame Gary and wanting to leave, because that's what I used to do leave all my relationships. I would leave them once again uncomfortable, but I was determined to stay. I made a commitment to create authentic power, but it was quite quite painful at first, but I gotta do look at yourself. I had to keep looking at my sought. Yes,.
But I also have experienced more joy than ever happen. My life, because I am convinced that well at I'm only saying this as a friend of mine is going through, is really authentically trying to do this in her relationship and has had many relationships and is is bid saying the same thing to me. Oh my gosh, it is really it is hard and it is painful. Looking at the truth of yourself, yes It's not the relationship that painful it's what you discover in yourself, painful and the,
relationship brings that whether you want to or not you say on page one, twenty four of the seat of the soul actually is that they underline premise of us. Virtual partnership is a sacred commitment between the partners to assist each other's spiritual growth spurt. Your partners are able to see clearly that there is indeed a deeper reason why they are together and that reason has a great deal to do with the evolution of their sole. Yes, that's exactly that's exactly exactly that is and that's what makes it so rich as well is so powerful, creating authentic powers not itself health programme is not a self improvement programme. It is consciously participating in your own evolution.
It is transforming yourself against a backdrop of spiritual development. Is for that reason that you become emotionally aware. It is for that reason that you learn how to make responsible choices just being with you all here today has made me more conscious to do that for myself, I'm starting to do I do see it, feel it and know that a problem or any experience that shows up where I want to blame somebody else. I now am consciously aware to be able to stop and look and say well what about that person, am I really seeing in my refuse to look at it myself, otherwise, wise it showing up in my life, and now I'm gonna go even deeper with that and try to do exactly what you said fixed myself into the fixing, the other person, that's the heart of it. That's it I got it clarifies that was it that's great thanks
I'm over Winfrey and you ve been listening to supersede conversations. Podcast you can follow, supersonic on Instagram, twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet go to apple podcast, unsubscribe rate and review of this planet. Join me next week for another supersede conversation. Thank you for listening.
Transcript generated on 2020-01-15.