Oprah sits down with the founder of #MeToo, Tarana Burke, to discuss her new memoir, Unbound. In this candid conversation, Tarana reveals how her own experiences with sexual abuse, shame and unkindness helped her discover her true calling as an empathetic leader.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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free welcome to supersede conversations the pod cast. I believe that one of the most valuable gives you can give yourself is time taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. I just want to say welcome two year. Toronto work too, are super, so five cast into
talks for our magazine and four, oh daily.
We're gonna use dishonest minute as many as we can.
so excited to talk to you about your book. Unbound and.
It's your story of liberation. You say and the birth of the me too movement and
a proud. I want everybody, though I chose this for my imprint for the open in practice as an opera, both right there on the under side. It
four years since the movie you found it that arise,
Lee was called me to unleashed a seismic shift around
the world- and now you are here to tell us your story and unbound. I mean what was that process like getting here to the small
It feels like a lifeline process in front will. Certainly the practice whereby, in this book is the hardest thing, I've done hottest piece of work. I've ever produced
in the last four years have been
we're all end, but I think I need a different worth. Weapons is tied to describe what its
I to have your work so put on this
Paid pages of all the newspapers and Indus blast across the whole world, but then also have people not really understand it. Yes, so it's it's been
interesting. It's been a worldwide has been life, changing, spend stressful and a lot of things yeah
I would have to say, as I was reading Unbound, I thought. Oh, this path
to be major league cathartic for you and you cannot come through this process without
growing and being a different person than you were. When you started, I mean that's how good the work that you have done in this book is so you know rabbit
just have questions. I saw one people to read this book that I wanted just like I've gone too late,
all the places I want to talk
We want to talk about everything, but I just want to start with this. If you will, let me read:
from page fifteen of on bound were you began the book and you say
is a serial killer.
I just want to say just that sentence alone. Not me out, but unkindness is a serial killer. You say death in the
Flash sometimes seems like a less excruciating way to succumb
the slow and steady venom
unleashed by mean spirited cool words, an action that point
didn't you over time. I guess that's why
I can't stand. The old children's rhyme sticks
stones may break my bones, but words
ever heard me every time
here. I think to myself. That's a lie,
who can dodge Iraq, but you can't.
hear a word. You can't undo
the intention of damage that some words
your mind body and spirit, and then you go on to say this, especially a word like ugly
There's a funny way that some people interact with those they deem physically unattractive. Usually this
they are about a half a b to now.
When their notice, they smile a small, guiltily, fading smile and then
eyes dart away and their posture.
All into an unsettling mix of toddler.
chimpanzee, as if
They don't know where to move next. Suddenly there fascinated
by the nothingness over your shoulder. I know this at all too well,
and I have seen it so often that I can spot it in the split second. It takes to pass the stranger on the street.
I can read the slight readjustments as discomfort turns through their body
There is just a millisecond of disgust sometimes-
offset by embarrassment and then, if confronted by my brief
unrelenting stare, guilt.
I know this, because I am ugly at least
What the world find new ways to tell me every day. I was pierced by that. I wasn't ready for paper. I am pierced by that and why it took four,
you to get to that. It took a laugh me to get to that because there's a part of
it has to come from that region.
My reality, you know I have a very close circle of friends: lovely people, women
my friends for twenty or thirty years and your friends hold you up and they say things to all the time
beautiful stop it. Don't don't say that
Don't talk family about yourself and I am I
look in the mirror and I dont see. I see something
I know that
Maybe you know,
idle, but it's ok,
you look, you see yourself, I see myself.
I don't know your way random, like you're cool person, but the world has told me different
over and over again and so on.
time. I understand the historical significance of that as a black person. I understand the cultural significance. I understand pop culture and I entirely
fully and makes sense, but it does
change. What it feels like right and and dealing with the abuse
the violence and abuse I dealt with as a child. I left
become the real
married all that together, all this must have happened to me because I'm look different
you didn't everybody else or because people just
fine all these different ways that you tellin me early, and
if you dont like another, can understand kindness,
things really naive to say to some people.
an unkind. Very many half a year
I could see a Red ever baby. It's ok! I definitely
do, you know the campaign of China, but but just
immensely. I don't understand unkindness, because it's just that it's just not necessary like
You don't like the way. I look, that's why that line is so powerful. Tirana, unkindness is a serial killer, because once it
Put after into the world. You're unkind,
somebody in that they take their energy and then their unkind to somebody else more.
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tell us about the
the incident in
store with the young.
and her father, where you first heard the word used to describe yourself. I thought that was such a powerful. In a moment it was
I used to think of all the time I was out about well when I went to the pharmacy to pick up some of my mother and there was a thing family
lastly, happening right. I was dealing with a whole bunch of stuff and my twelve, your life, and I really want
to be good? I just always want people to see me as good and a good girl not behave myself and
having a conversation with this little girl who may have been like seventy eight.
A young girl than me, and I thought to myself that the father was
we're, but we had a lovely conversation as removing along the line as set by the little girl like occupiers. She said by and then
damn I heard,
little girl and the lion say all day.
Doesn't look like a mile Laguna finding their way
this grown man, I'm a child's right ground. For that now
She could not like a my girl is, I believe, with so much
like aggression and embittered was so, and I was just like me-
It's all about me and if it may be a quite ugly would ban is too you know
that's just it just was this question in my mind, was very inquisitor child already, and so I just kept taking
If ugly, I don't really understand what it means Ray. You feel
storing phoebean, that's over that girl meant to be
ugly but like in people.
my mother and my mother was ugly. Then I just I just
is really strange to me, but he sat heavy on my chest and I started to like it
would make it makes sense with all these other things- and I was just the beginning-
Other really really. Really
long and hard period in my life here,
you say in the beginning of the boy
the story of how empathy for others, without which the work
me too doesn't exist, starts with empathy for that.
dark place of shame where we can
our stories and where I kept my. So what was the story of origin of your dark place of shame.
you know it started with the unmolested. I was
seven years old, and you know
a lot of absolutely black girl have similar experience,
knowing right and wrong, because you can't get bits and pieces right, you got it.
on his lap. He put some clothes Norman. A grown man comes in the handles all this kind of stuff. That tells you that we are responsible for protect ourselves and Selwyn that when that happened to me, just
it may disturb me inside out, and I thought
really bad. They must
something about me this bad and made this person do this to me
about eight. I don't even think something was done to me. I thought I was complicit in that abuse than we have done something bad.
this person- and I had done- something that- and so I just was it- doesn't- it became a dark place because
I was confused about a week
good in the world? I want people to see me as good life was ok like I was a good girl, my family. Like me and now what
do, they ever found out how dirty I was and how bad
Why is there one love yeah? This? Is it
why I love Unbound so much in the truth that you ve told is because what
you were able to do is something.
In trying to do in
I can't even tell you how many hundreds of conversations I had doing
sexual violence against children against women and the things that people can't seem to get is that it's not just the act
because it's like why don't you get over that happened in now?
you ve grown, and so what does is matter they don't get, but you were able.
Articulate so profoundly that it's not just the act. It's what the asked does to you
that is the shame that is created. It's the feeling them
being nasty, is the fear,
king being tainted its that it and that tainted miss
carried over into everything else in your life, because now that be
comes your worldview- you were
what a male that here, you say, litter
on page twenty four I had
no real grasp of the gravity of what was happening
This is after you have been assaulted at seven
but I knew it wasn't right. It made
we feel nasty and dirty and wrong, not realizing that he was wrong and that he was the culprit. I thought this was what got me really. I thought we were wrong
And your ability to articulate that is something like it. It touched a nerve in me, I'm like oh yeah, it never even
occurred to me that he was wrong, because every abuser makes you feel complicit. Absolutely that's their job
is to make you feel complicity, and then you go on to say that
I didn't whole my abusers accountable does on page thirty. Five
Oh myself, to blame,
in my why they didn't it
use me I,
broke the rules wow that with such a light bulb for me, too, I was the one who did something wrong.
it was this thinking that also kept me from ever identifying. As a survivor, I didn't even identify as a victim
I had no language, I was just bad. You know this.
yeah, I think, was a wonderful about this though Toronto is that you were able to Artie.
Lay to how it's the culture, and so often our mothers,
reading a book I do we have the same other big. That's.
Our mothers and our aunts are complicit in offering us blame. You know I grew up as you
you. Keep your dress down, keep your legs closed and if now you are violated, it said you'd. Seven me at nine
you are the one that held responsible for that. You know, and I want
Why is that passed on? What do you think? The reason for that is that its past him,
generation to generation, and you articulated taking it so well how we have to stop blaming the girls.
I beg, is passed on and I try to articulate the two about my mother in its defence of protection,
we now, I think cultural youth uses
your book. What happened to you? How much I love as well, because I have to say this one.
Question when you say this is why I've known and I've always known as that
you think matters? Yes, everything
until you matters, and the reason why as important is because whatever
and so my manner
it made. My nana try to figure out how to protect my grandma and my grandma. Whatever happened to her and made her try to figure out what protection was like for my mother and so forth, and so on, but there no examples.
nobody doing the work of interrupting sexual violence in our community. People are seen as a social justice issue right and it's all in it
All of these questions and shame around, and so there isn't, there hasn't been any work, significant work to dismantle their answers to unpack
as though you have these mothers particular use black mothers who, just like it may come out in ways that debt
farmers and farm incisors, but I think at the height of it. It really is about
I just want you to be safe and
I don't know what to do with your, not something
happens. You don't know what to do with that. So you just do what I did and figure it out
and keep your legs close, keep redress down, and if you get violated you now
You should follow somebody who wrote the conscious parent, which I was one of the best faring books ever done is rigorously.
When people call radical wakening and she talks to about sexual
women and how she was sexually assaulted as a young girl, and that she suggests that perhaps what should happen is that the women come together. We
as the adult women come together and tell these young girls look. This is
what's going to happen when you get to this
to a certain age where you abiding and you were you know, people
And then you are
beginning to look like a woman. You are,
to get people
want to assault. You you're gonna be touched in you, gonna be looked at
you're gonna, be you know, TAT called and all of that, and we
stand with you. We are here to stay with you. Instead of
you know that happens to you that your fault, look it up. Yeah yeah! There would be such a shift in culture if we
talk about Isley and I beg desolate, but I wanted to do in the book. Is talk about this honestly so that we can have the leaf?
some way her better conversations are community about it and does not address these matters. The black, maybe right right,
communities a collar, though we have a particular shroud of secret,
shame, and I think it is a fall under the others, because we are so
other things that we are dealing with, and I also think that
A lot of our mothers who are trying to make ends meet get the red pay. You know,
deal with whatever their relationships. That is like. I don't have time to try to find it out for you
then, on China's about myself. Well, then,
things that you also hit on is that their
struck me and I will forever remember it. You talk about the capacity that the fact
your mother, didn't have the capacity to be
give. You too, you were you needed
is why you worked so hard to have the capacity with your own child
I think that word is such an important word. Particular,
for those of us who grew up as, as is young girls of color black girls, and I think,
what money Perry says on the back of the book than you think
black girl song. I mean reading this, I felt so connected
this, and I know you and I share this love for underway. The cage were things but
you, reading this story growing up.
black girl understand that some of the same conditions I feel like
you are literally singing our son you. This added had no intention of cry
Nor did I did I fear we are now. We know that that is it
so much to me, because I think my life's work. I know my life's work has been directed by the hope that in some of these,
problematic for me right because I thought is too late to save myself, but it is too late to do anything for me, but I could stop
the little black girls from feeling what I felt, if I get into
being earlier as somebody a consummate twelve and said it's not your fault, the healing as possible any of those things it would have changed
the trajectory of my life and it just felt like
most important thing in the world to be a
to try to do that for other little girls. Somebody actually did did do it one day you on the stairs.
And who was Davis, Janius Davis saw you insane
come here baby and she knew some
and was going on, but she also said be careful right from my father.
ass, because your father will go out and do something to anybody that hurt you, but she
don't. You think she knew. No shame
so. I can tell when this ship that she put it together like a puzzle really quickly- and I was that's what I'm saying I think older black women in particular.
Contributed a lot to the charming with carry around the sexual violence, but I also know that they have so much wisdom and there's so much experience that it is brought them into it.
different understanding about survival and we have
and shall, as you grew
There is no question that self hey
severely lumbered ones, capacity to love fully and wholeheartedly
passively and desire are not the same thing, especially in discussions of love. I wasn't
don't with a child in my own trail and mistakes behind me before I could
say with certainty that my mother love me and that clarity came for me,
faced with my own limited capacity, no matter,
deep. My desire was to love my child. I will still encumbered by the
I tried to Bury- I failed often
I hadn't had the experiences
that I had with my mother. I am
not sure I would have fought so hard to build my capacity
Can you talk about bad? It's true. I you know-
I haven't. My mother has read the book it,
and I am I intend to have
read it soon, I'm gonna give it our next. We probably a dismissal
nervous about it, but because our
I'll, be clear. I know it's gonna be hard for how to read and higher here from it
I'm saying- but I also put that
the peace near because because want her another I get it now. I will know
really understand our decisions riot in some of the decisions she made. But I understand what drove her to have to make some decision
there was right or wrong. I've been in that place and the like, I said,
had a desire to be the best. Mom ever had a desire to make so much. I was free and
now liberated, and why has this wonderful childhood, but I didn't have the capacity because I hadn't out with my own trauma. I was still carry and shame. I was carrying the
the thing that I learned from my Grandmama analysis. I had to unpack. That's though honesty
really was the was my honesty in and a real deep.
just longing to make sure
My job had a different life was what helped me to face that stuff and say: oh, I see that the problem
I just I just don't know how? Yes, you know. Yet this beautiful lie. Where were you talked about
You have you walked around with this back the fact that is what you second book back the fuck up,
written on your forehead and if anybody you don't didn't, read that clearly they were
in for it, and you would have these, but you know you know, fight with people
I mention that
There was a moment when the rage over
came the shame and I want
to ask. Did the rage really
overcome the shame or was the shame just manifesting now as rage. That's what I want
Spain, I found a new way in others,
and was eating me alive and made me feel like small and unworthy and rage gave me
a sense of power, and so I led into the rage, but it certainly was a shame manifested his rage. It was none.
useful rage. I believe a righteous read you didn't
Matt Righteous. It was not useful so now
definitely didn't become
get over, that your nose is another thing to be like. Oh, this is merrily helpful, not helping me and I don't feel good.
You know how I can get angry at enough by its outcome, gallon scream across people out and then I go home and cry or
I feel terrible for days at a time that I have not used
when I say the people again. What you were able to argue articulate so beautifully here. Is that all of that one
fight swimming cry is because you can't say,
what you later were able to say in the book I've been raped, I've been violated, I've been hurt
I've been shamed, and I am sorry so you can't say that because-
What I want to say to everybody again, as you have said so so wonderfully surprise, you don't have the language.
Just don't have the language and
So all of that shame and her
and violation comes out as
for many girls, depression, anger rage
and you're. Just raging against the world and can understand
It was what I recognized in the girls and I started working with yes, how water
space and walk into a school, and I would ask the counselor
Joshua Bassett suspend. Who are the girls that have the tension all the time and it be. These angry girls will be fighting all the time person and other teachers.
Thomas alleys, browser just there to so bad in ages. Can, unlike
inherently bad. Something happened. What happened to you
what happens if we would pay more attention to what happened and dig into that. Then I think we can make better.
As for children, and give them earlier pathways to healing. Let's talk about Heaven, you talk about her
beginning on page one. Thirty, seven, you met her ever leadership camp and I want to know she wanted to tell you about her mothers. Boyfriend who had
then messing with her and you
couldn't bear the telling of it at the time
and that girl.
ended up changing your life. How did she help you bear your truth on the outside on the alpha exactly Heaven
and give our people ask me all the time. I've never met her again. I've never seen again, but this child,
was so much like me,
Let me so much myself except there I didn't
as much freedom as she had the sense of freedom that she had at their aid, an uninhabited.
I trusted the way she trusted me and you know
I have to remind myself often, is that I was twenty two march
I was twenty three right that keep that as a sort of gate
and I was a kid who was trying to figure things out was just time a kind of deal with or think about the things that have happened to me, and here was Heaven.
Believing me. Do you know
I love you and I
your family and I want
if you will leader- and I want to help you and I met those things, but I think I'm done enough of the work. I think this is the true philosophy
meanwhile in one of the world in one go on change things
we have to do some self work before you can tackle that and she called me on it
even intentionally right. She doesn't. She just believe
Is that all you love me? Well, that's what I've been glad looks like
It looks like you hold this base for me
maybe and be able to unburden myself of disdain that I've been hold
and I was like all didn't really prepare for that. Sorry and it just whip me apart,
but but are also not enough to make me have like an epiphany in a moment and say: please tell them.
Help you I just by. I can't I'm sources at twenty two you still were able to.
speak out loud. What had happened to you, because there is still so much shame about it. That's why our stores are so similar,
and then the thing that free you is the same thing that the deal for me you picked up. I know why the cage put things. Can we just have a shop? We have a child
to my Angelo. Yes,
I can show every day for the rest of my life because its author,
writing. A book has always been important to me
I could ever even try to me.
and to do what she did by the the feeling of alone
Reading a love books, immunize data, but the feeling of picking up a book not knowing what to expect and your mother
and all this beautiful black literature, Tony
I sat in my Angelou Alice,
after all of them.
You have put to the house and
mother had tried to keep
the cage four things from you, because she thought too much to ground watch.
not knowing the bandit already happened at early happen and I'd been, you know, whatever I am elsewhere
fast and I'm gonna say that's not yes, the books
labour we outlets illegally or I'll. Give it you just fast. You just too fast re his ass.
And I am, and I read it and at this I could not believe what I was reading.
I also then really understand my Angela as a real person. Yes algae,
just the person in a box. I I was just like. Oh my god, there's somebody does somebody else.
there's somebody else I just I couldn't I just
I remember reading agreement. In fact I read that chapter so much. You know what I'm really
that was laid out of. Like I remember these, I got it, I got it. I know exactly what you mean. I had the exacting revelation. It was the first time it ever occurred to
that this was happening to somebody else or had happened, somebody else other than that the meat yeah and then in high school- and I read this in a bottle.
I heard her voice and made this connection to this real person.
HU. I had read her books, Makin refiner, poetry and I felt like I was low arrogant about that. But her voice was the second ship
it felt like she was light right. She felt she felt joy ass. She felt comfortable
scared. While all of this I'm hearing in her voice was laughing amount is thought handle.
All these years. Right from when I read the book to my voice, I thought we have a secret right. I know
this is, I know what this is like- we have a secret and
I had been my bonnet vacancy. You make it kind of thing. My boy, I'm just gonna, pretend to be really really good.
so people are. You know no one, what I really am an here. She was not pretending, not pretending and
there's a line that you say. Why isn't she out here?
written in person that white all the time. Why is she stopped
and so filled with. You
which made me tear up, because you know joy was her. Favorite word really. Yes, it's awful
If it weren't in its how she sighed every autograph every book, every piece of paper, everything would be a bit
J at all why an explanation present. I have a fine, but by your right to say why
I didn't realize that, but it, but that's what I felt
and it was so remote
to me. This was another big shift from me because I thought, as I said,
How does she manage that? How I know that this doesn't go anywhere? At least it hasn't gone anywhere. So can we still things exist? At the same time, can I see a actual joy? At the same time,
filling all this pain, I don't understand it and I became a
bit obsessed with her? Tell me
As to ride, were you able to connect your ray?
And your anxiety- and
all of the feelings emotions were you able
it connects that too. This is I'm feeling this because of what
but maybe we'll never seven. What happened to me when I was nine? What happened when I was eleven? Not until I was older yeah
yeah man TAT was much older. I just thought this is what girls
browser do this is how we are we just you know we fight
you have attitudes, but I've been red
much too that I had another sort of world view had
political view. Worldview
was for me, and I think in this made me ask more questions and ask my questions and, as I met people,
and started thinking more about it. I wasn't much Odin. I realized all that acting now that the that that all of those things this is clearly coming back to this one. These
a series yeah that changes your worldview actually. Certainly.
well, do you and your view, view of yourself and then therefore, how
that the rest of the world is is now seeing you an initial
but he's case mine as well as yours, there's always
person one instance one something before I was
what happened to you. I was
the conversation with Doktor Bruce Perry, who is also the Euro
scientist author of that work,
I'm saying what I understand. How did I make it? How did I get through? He goes, you must have
all you need is one person to believe in you to see you
see you, as you want to see yourself
and that will be enough, because that's what community and connection does for people,
for here it was the twenty one c program when you first
we have heard that there is such a thing is leadership and I can be won yeah there was ever
Then it was, it was a new. It was almost like. I can shift identities. I was so busy trying to be good and out and good wasn't working in high school kind of blew out the water, and then I found this work, and I thought, oh, my goodness, and when I speak, people listen and nice.
All these adults are telling me I'm a leader right now, not you can
but you are a leader right now and you will be in the twenty.
Our century, and it just click for me, and I thought I wanna put everything into this. This is going to make me whole again. You know, and it didn't but
definitely part of the work, but it must have been game it was it was.
Thing, they gave you the spark to tell us
at that moment, you add,
you're. Talking to you here, you got to this process of life
how to ask me, mother in the different phases and what
she has to be, and how are you going
say yes, come about at the weekend,
mother, and so you go away on your phone
trip and you walk into this room and they're all these kids, who are not like,
anything you ve experienced before and there
excited and they're carrying joy, joy, ass, yes,
decide what happened to me. I'm you know, I think people don't also realizing in a lot of inner city communities, urban communities, this bunch of young people who have a lot of the same trauma everybody's going through the same stuff,
do something or add others that I had no man my brother had been killed. I have been dealing with other life events and we a lot of us. It is,
agree in and it became. I don't wanna stay cool, that's gonna cliche, but it became acceptable,
for to be that young and that angry and built a sea
these teenagers are dancing jump dry,
in Dublin on shares and singing and boys and girls right thinking out loud and laughing, and I really would like what is this quantity lancer? It's about that
whereas at the New York enough like this is corny. What are they doing, but it was also like my heart was quickly
Who is this is amazing and then the Sanders came out and she just
nothing like tat ever seen before. She just was a ball of fire and all of them
fire. She was willing to share like it was like she was gone around its happen, everybody and given us the fire- and it was
I was in love
and truly, I just fell in love and out like a sailing grace, and it was
was very much a saving grace, while the reason why
of that story is because we are all or can be, saving grace is for each other and we don't even break
guys, when that happens, I mean, I remember, feel
that same thing when dying arise in the supreme or on those at Sullivan, show for the first time and is the first time
I'd seen black women
on television that were beautiful, you now and seeing them was well. That is possible.
And I want some of that whatever that is, I want some of that. So that's what you
felt when you saw Missus Sanders.
A kind of leadership
and that she is able to do that. Not
seeing but just with by her voice by speaking-
and then there was this regulatory. That was a big regulatory moment for you as well
adding to literally the stuff.
Liberation and the birth of the meeting movement and sharp. What is wonderful about,
We ve been able to offer us in unbound
that we see the different layers of your becoming so that first moment
of the leadership that get smart and then you're in college.
and ride me king happens, something that the whole
country recognised as such.
tragic happening and the fact that that was filmed it could not be
You know denied that had happened and
tell us: how
making literally chair,
the trajectory for you now,
again another been moment, I'm in college and I've been in twenty first century, so we had done, organise I've been organised since high school, and you know New York. We had our own. We are moments with you, so Hawkins.
an essential part: five, five organised stuff in high school, but when, when Ronnie King happened, I was in Alabama Albums Day and it just in Finland.
Moving an end
responding email enough there, why
but just as this is my hyper like I promise, but it was
again. Miss Anders will allow me to go on this stage and find my school and really on television in front of media to talk about that
Ronnie King, but Latasha Harlan, who had been
and I just thought we have to- we- have the power
and I was it was my moment, a sort of taken with twenty percent you have given to me and personal,
stay dry and saying we have the power right now to do something
We are leaders. We need to speak to this. We need to do something right now. This is unacceptable and we get to face unacceptable and I just felt
it was. It was such a home now
I don't have the right word, but it was such a big moment for me because I like to play the background ride a carnival. That's it.
Only thing, I didn't like turbulence in the spotlight. I'm gonna be in a moment of my profound money. You know me,
it's too much, but I would rather talk employing.
in our coastal person gone
I wasn't that person and that help me come out.
another reveal another layer of leadership. For me, there was, there was great,
You feel that moment that there
something here, that I'm done
be doing the rest of my life. Oh yeah, honestly, I felt there probably before that moment. I think that moment was a realization, no matter what I do. I can run from this.
I came from when there is an injustice theirs
part of me to have to see to it that has to react faster response,
when you try to do. This is a part of who you are, and I thank them
also solidify there for me, and then are you got pregnant with your child care. When you were twenty three right, yeah the same age,
are now while you are an activist living in summer and
was that moment where you had this on again off again relationship with pious father and then there was that moment where he literally has you by the braids between his legs and did you think you were going to die.
I don't know about that guy, but I certainly thought I was gonna be about a royal that he had. I was primates
You know you written about, we have fought before, and I
but that was normal at the time, but now I couldn't find because I was pregnant,
I thought I might lose my baby. Am I
You know, I don't know how this is gonna end, but he was so he was so far gone there. It was self scary, it was just incredibly scared, and so you re
on page one? Seventy seven, you say I've been
fine to twist this ban-
and debilitating mix of toxicity his
And longing for belonging into love since before I can even understand what I was up against a genuinely
connected to him. But in that moment, with another human being growing inside of me, I fell more connect.
to my child. I was
invested my child having a life,
the things that I was just starting to myself, untangle from when it
down to it. I chose not to
Oh my eyes to what was clear, I chose to see what was different and I chose my baby. I just wanted to say that
again the toxic relationships that so many women are involved in them back from it.
Yesterday of your very
first violation me. Why do you
with men. Treating you that way is because
you dont cause. You really don't even know what love looks like you, don't know what it looks like and, quite frankly, this
talking about the lineage right and it was it was what I had seen in
home around my home, I thought
rights that we have a normal, because I had seen that kind of violence around
and it's like
in the eightys. We had a burning bad if it wasn't a burning bad situation right like that's. What abuse looks like this is not abused. This is justified,
right, but also that needs when you want to feel good pot of feeling. Good is being love
right. Somebody loving you makes you feel like you're, a good person, and so I desperately wanted tat and he just wasn't the person about
There's something come over you in that moment. I think that was a big
because, as you know, so many people
our community and many other communities choose the man,
over the child, so I had
there are situations in my life and you in our breaded. You read it in a book where the man,
was chosen over me where felt like my father, who
you know I had a long relationship with an indian well by star
really really tumultuous on
It felt like my mom chose em over me
and I'm not what that felt like and I could not could not
at this early to tell when employing yet I wanted to be
The attention of the word I use all its own people say: oh you, just such a great job, which ajar what did you do, and I said I don't know what I was doing but
make sure that the
he isn't I had in my head? I was very intentional. I was intentional basque wax
all of them to where they lived. What I did and its
in tat moment, it was
to do better for this baby, the mandate for myself, I have to
and you know, and the thing that you were talking about with your mother's partner, the cat.
After Mister West
that moment, where you had been talking louder, you'd been singing.
Something in the house, and then he told you to shut up, and you thought your mother would withstand,
and defend you and she didn't
Instead, she told you to go to her room. That was the choosing. That was the moment.
And I don't you know- I've found ways to give their answers. I get it now because.
love, the longing for the love is yelling- is so hard to buy yeah. But it's so interesting.
The reason I said, oh, I gotta do we have the same mother knew when you walk into a room with other young teenage girls who have also had their lives ravaged by me,
this boy. Friends are cousins or uncles causes.
a fierce says in the color purple girl chow a safe in a world full of man's the baby. You recognise that is not a bad day, my life just now, the guy. You recognize very clear
When you are not the one when you are not the apple of your brother's eye, when somebody else wholesale space and you don't and that two compounds inside
Tom pounded abuse. Yes, it is, it is
you were talking early about is the right is the actual violence, but the violence that happens after reportedly is if you are not able to
immediately trying to figure out what he looks like a somebody's. By intervening in telling you bet it's, you know always good things. To put you on that path, then you're trying to figure it out your cell
if your child at seven, eight nine, you don't have a language? That's why you keep saying to people at an end, and one of these
you dont tat, was because you don't have the language and also those of us what I understood so pure clearly from about it is.
Ingrained into us that it is our fault. It's not even his fault, it's just our fault.
because you didn't keep your dress down and you didn't keep your legs clause and saw you
to be blamed for that. No, I'm not
Remember we Adam Church ministries. Some years ago I was a sexual violence and they
and we're gonna do a practice around forgiveness, and they said you know
have to forgive nodded a move on and their people what's Martha giving their abusers, and I said I'm never thought
given my visa, because I didn't blame now, I'm in I hated
and I and I felt strongly about them, but I didn't necessarily blame them away where needed and eventually up to go to a process of thought. I understood
and being and then forgiving, but initially this is all me while our common,
They should will continue in the next episode. You can listen by downloading part to I'm over Winfrey and you ve been listening to supersede conversations with the pied cast. You can follow supersonic on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook if you haven't yet go to apple, podcast, unsubscribe rate and review this pledge gas join me next week for another supersede conversation. Thank you for listening.
Transcript generated on 2021-09-15.