« Oprah’s SuperSoul Conversations

Sheryl Sandberg and Justice Sonia Sotomayor

2020-06-10 | 🔗

Oprah Winfrey travels to Silicon Valley to have lunch with Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg, who ignited a firestorm with her book Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead. Cheryl takes Oprah to her favorite restaurant, the place where she and Facebook Founder and CEO Mark Zuckerberg first sat down to discuss her future at his company. Oprah also travels to the Bronx to sit down with Justice Sonia Sotomayor, the first Latina to ever serve on the U.S. Supreme Court. The two meet at the Justice's alma mater, Cardinal Spellman High School, where Justice Sotomayor candidly talks about her revealing memoir, her humble beginnings and the promises she made to President Obama. She also discusses the perils of dating when you sit on the highest court in the land.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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in Silicon Valley for a power lunch with Facebooks CO pilot? We discuss her you miss boss. The myth Having at all and how, in the world, she juggles the demands of one billion facebook, users thou tell it s our current tonic. I always really I'm wagons. That would be an honor where have you I'm so excited to be here. The fleece shriek There is a Silicon valley institution. This we're. Cheryl and more execrable first met to discuss the possibility of her joining Facebook, their partners It is now one of the most well known in business history. These are on Ok, that's how you that's how you get me started by scarce gets, so you cannot have a biscuit when it's warm now you have to do so. We hear at the Fleece street
welcome nice to have you in California. Again again your neighborhood, my neighborhood alive round corner, and you came here for your very first meeting, or should we call it date? We mark Zuckerberg, it was, and it did. It was date like in the sense that you're nervous. Yes, it's a dinner you're getting to know each other, but we had our dinner first, very first and only dinner. We ever weren't were in public together until we we announced I was coming to Facebook. Obviously what will went well, yes, and what we actually states so late. The restaurant was kind of closing down and we want to keep talking to Goodwin Ten O clock at night way past my bed time machine clearly wanted to keep talking and he was marks. Echo Burke so I said well Twond come over and we came our then around midnight. I had to say like the time to go time to get my kids get not live hours out there, and I have two was the process like like dating, though was it like a court courtship trying to figure
whether it would work or did you know after that, first meaning that it on? I knew after that force, meaning how warm he lies and how nice he wasn't, how much he cared about Facebook, but it was definitely a process of getting to know each other. When you first started the job, will you staying up late at night, worrying about the pressure you were under, did it keep you up at nine yeah yeah it did and the pressures I was under to make Facebook what it needed to be would mark and I get along. Would we have the relationship we need to have cast a very unique relationship where he runs the company? I run part of a company working Have we really need to trust each other? You know he was fifteen years younger than I was when I was interviewed him one night. We were supposed to talk endlessly nine o clock at night and he called- and he said well just call you later and I want to go to sleep,
thirty minutes. So if you know, if you're so you're general talk tomorrow, because the next phase like are you ok, I can finally set. Were you sick? So no it wasn't SEC. You said you went to bed at nine thirty and I said I wasn't second mother, that's what I do. I go to bed at nine thirty, and so I definitely had to scare that I was. Can it be too old, not understand what he was doing enough and it was scary at first at first first, so you have now written what I I have to say the modern manifesto for women in the workplace and new pilot lean in because a guideline in we gotta leaning, we got to encourage girls and you ve done this in your own life. Look what you ve done with your school! We ve got to encourage girls to lead, so women have made tons of progress. You look at the opportunities my mother had of my grandmother had, but we really small percentage of the top jobs in any industry in any nation. In the world there are very few upper winfried. There are very few women who will become
Influence and have a kind of opportunities you have Charles New book is a must read for women, and men is a smart, honest, deeply, Personal exploration of Charles mission. She wants women to pool their chair up to the table. It starts with a healthy. Those of reality, you ve, said no such thing as work life balance. Why? Why is there no work? Life balance? I think all of these phrases- people throw at women are so harmful, haven't lost, haven't. Rather tat. You have it having it ass, the worst how much we all have and how grateful we are for what we have. No one has at all, because we all make tradeoffs every single day. Every single minute work life balance, no one ever all? I must say I have added how having at all for second cause. I love that because I don't think you can, you can
have it all I feel like I do, but you can have it all. At the same time, that's right and what's happened. If you compare like my generation to my mother's generation, my mother, says sometime in her generation like work was ninety five Monday to Friday forty hours now, unexpected anything else and parenting was actually much more constrained. What's happened now we are all connected. My industry is part of the problem right. We are connected all the time we expect. Our workers are our colleague's work to always be available and the amount of time mothers spend one
one in that direct child thing with their kids is totally changed. My mother didn't organised play dates. We vote our bikes reality earlier dates. She wasn't with me. You know my mother to sit there with me, as I did on my homework. She helped me when I just checked in every so often, and work has changed and made it more. Intense and parenting has changed and become more intense and I'm not judging those things. They might be bad, they might be good, they make it harder and harder for working. Women, and almost all women in this country are working. Women and almost all kids are being raised by two or one parent was in the workforce. Absolutely, how do you get pass the guilty space. I dont have the answer to that out to get past it. I am not pass you're not trying to get past it, and I know I want to be passed it. I still feel guilty. I trot my kids off in the morning and they get out of the car, and I see the other mothers we're staying all day because our volunteering and you know the heart pang well with my kids, be better off. If I were staying, my husband Dave he.
Things were here us no one, no one does as much as we do. No one has dropped like arson gets home. The way we do we're fantastic Tommy was there ever. Discussion in your home about one or the other of you staying home. Was there ever that discussion now there is never that discussion, because we both knew we wanted to work, but there are a lot of discussions to get us to fifty. Fifty has one of the things I really want. All women out there now is almost no men come fully trained. You have to work on this island. Sit up, no man comes fully trained, you not come fully trained and no women. We have to train ourselves too. We can fully trained either, and that is the biggest, if not one, of the biggest, if not the biggest life decisions, you make it so you're like partner, it's going to be the most important, not just life decision, but the most important career decision you make in my view is: are you can have a life partner and who is that person can be? And you got married
Twenty four and then we were divorced did a year. What they teach you, what did they teach? You don't do that? Don't do that, but its hobby lot. Look. I didn't know myself well enough. I just know myself: I'm married a wonderful man, we're still friends. I admire him a great deal, but I wasn't ready. I wasn't mature enough. I didn't know I was true, has a lesson for women. That cannot be said enough when the operative, many presented itself, always at the table. I love that yeah. I hosted a risk that a breakfast for our Treasury secretary TIM gardener. He came just Silicon Valley,
organised I've done this before it for staff members, whether senior all women. You know, there's a before. I ask everyone to get food sit at the table. They sat on the side like in front of everyone, I said, come sit at the table and demurred inside of the side. So whenever left, I sat down with them and do not try to do nicely pussy, I invited you to the table. First of all, you deserve that seat at the table, but no one listens to the person sitting on the side of the room, and if you watch people of corporate meanings commander at the table on the women on the side of the table on the side of the room, we the scourge we ve to sit at that table because
A voice this matter we have to make sure women now that they have value that their voices are important. Well, in every single chapter you speak of the ways: women we hold ourselves bang and how we can push ourselves for. One of my favorite is: will you be my mentor? You call me, are you my mentor? Will you be my mentor where you? How many times have you been asked that I can count on me? I haven't been asset, but do you know what I love about Is that you actually called it out when I read this for the oh, my God is. Thank you because you say the question is a total mood killer.
People when you ask someone to be your meant her. You have now that you don't know you ve known them for five minutes, and somebody comes up into I'd like to ask you something good. You please be monitor its total mood killer, the equivalent of turning to a pinch of data, asking. What are you getting getting out of the male yeah? Why? Why did you do that chapter? So I think this is really important, so mentorship and sponsorship and super important for men and women and men have an easy time getting mentor and sponsors, because we all like to help people one. I have ass. We do it naturally, so men more naturally gravitate towards man. It's also the case that men are afraid to be alone. With a woman, you look at a man and you look at two men and of our having a drink to colleagues on a trap. Having about what is that mentoring make one of those a woman particularly make it an older man and the younger women now? What's it look like look like dating?
that's mentoring. Mentoring is all about being able to have a conversation alone, and so we have to change those perceptions because we can move a little harem ahead there when you say that change that thing is all about being having a rear. In relation to cover out one woman, though we were things were telling women, you need a mentor Unita mentor. Yes, so they are walking up to strangers. To me to you to others, national winter, that's not can work. We need to tell them the ways to get a mentor the ways to get a mentor or do a great job. Ask an interesting question. I've been towards people who I've met. You know there are people at work who I dont know at Facebook. I don't ever and four thousand people I'd like to know and they walk up to mean be, like you know, to answer that question company Q and a I think you could have done it better and hears why that person. I have a relationship with yes, so we need to tell women how to create real relationships, and we need to tell people in power largely men, that they need to its a badge of Honor Mentor
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request a new one at any time, at no additional charge, better help. Is a truly affordable option and listeners get ten percent off your first month with the disk code, super soul, that's better Gee lp dot com slashed superstar talk to. Therapist online and get help. You say that the revolution. A revolution is stalled. How so so, when we are making a lot of progress in its progress is very important. Women became fifty percent of the college graduates. Thirty years ago, we now get on the sixty percent of the masters degrees. Women are making more progress at every every every level, except the top. Women have been about fourteen percent of the top jobs in court.
America for ten years. Women just got an increase in this in the House and Senate without twenty percent. The congressional seats, which is great how many headlines were there, that women were taking over this Congress like taking over twenty percent that's not taking over and those numbers are not changing at the top enough. There are not yet enough. Oberlin freeze who are women chosen works. Ok, when you say when Goya's Steinem marched in the streets to fight for the opportunities. So many of us now take for granted she Quota Susan, be Anthony, who marched in the streets before her and concluded. Our job is not to make young women grateful. It is to make them ungrateful, so they keep going yeah and I think that's important. We need to be grateful.
What we have, I think about my grandmother's life. I have so many more opportunities than she had, and I want to be grateful for that. But we need to be a little dissatisfied- men and women alike that we're not using the full talents of our population, because if we do, if we actually drawn the full talents of women in the workforce and the full talents of men at home are companies are better run. Our companies are more fish. An effective. Our kids are better off because they have advised fathers and our marriages are happier. This is good for everyone. This isn't only good for women. This is good for men too. It's good for all of us. Tell me what are the three biggest mistakes: women, making the work workplace, not believing in themselves and sitting at the table side of the room sittings are the room. That's right, I'm not making them.
Partners, real partners, you want to have a career, every woman I know who has married, particularly if you have kids, you have the support of husband, whose not just supportive, like this oh honey, I'm cited for you they're changing diversify on, and the third thing is don't leave before you leave. Over the years. I saw this so clearly women as early as junior high are worried now about having careers and families, so they enter the workforce almost looking for the exit years before they have children. I really believe we ought to make our own choices. Men, women- and there are really good reasons to leave. The workforce- are work last or take a different job when you want to be with your children, I just want women and men to make that choice once they have the child not years in advance, because by doing it years in advance, they don't get the right opportunities they give up before they
start. They give up before don't leave before you leave start out aiming high. You have the. What would I do if I weren't afraid chapter here And I know that that is in your posters in Europe and how it's in my office, what would you do if you weren't afraid has that mantra allowed you to move into spaces that you wouldn't have yeah? It's writing this back. If I hadn't met Mark Zuckerberg, there's no way, I would have had the courage to write this but find him at you. I want to have the courage to write his back that you know just like admitting. I leave at five. Thirty was hard there's a lot in there. That's personal alot of advice for women, and you know it so easy to say who the hell are you to give advice right? I don't pretend I have the answers for all women.
What the hell are. You shells and I have to say I don't pretend to have the answers for all women and men, but I really want the world to be more equal. I really think we'll all be happier and our businesses will perform better and what leadership is will change and I took a deep breath and I'm I'm doing it and I want other people to do what they would do if they weren't afraid. You know what I want. I want three hundred and thirty four copies of your book, because when they are to every there my school, I mean it the honor learning under every girl and mice. I think that Jimmy the it's the new manifesto for women in our place. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. In the history of the United States have only been one hundred twelve Supreme Court justices, not one of them look Or sounded like Sonya Saddam ire. She is the
first hispanic justice to serve on the nations highest court, like Well, Sandberg sprinkle just as soon as item on earth is one of the most. Powerful women in our country. Gale king at her. Do it large for a magazine, and I caught up with the feisty justice it Cardinal Spellman High School in the Bronx soon you sort of mature graduated forty years ago, how ill when it throughout Bernay. Well, it's a nice thing when two people could be happy and shovel when you come to how ass ice figured out well once every other year interests I noticed right away the just is no stranger to the student? Who knows, where is their most famous alone? What's it like for you to be back here, Cardinal Spellman? What kind of memories is this place hold for you? This was the beginning of.
I coming out of this: the smaller environment, the family. It was here that I, Began to see a larger world just a very sip of it, because the way got a lot better. When I went to Princeton, but here I began Some of the things that would hold me throughout my life, forensic, stop debating, debate, student government community service. All US threats that I would pick up with more passion late. Rod started here, but it is really humbling to walk these halls and some coming back here. Watching the kids watch me so touch of it being surreal. Like I, in a dream, what day is someone gonna pyncheon? Wake me up while sitting
you're? Looking at you gives me the same feeling well. Justice. Sodomy are as mere more my beloved world gives a vivid account of her unfathomable climbed to the top from it bubble, childhood and bronze housing project to an Ivy league education and finally, being nominated by President Barack Obama. Her again, Oh I'd story fulfil the promise of the american dream. What I got from this book is that you are an ordinary person who has made extraordinary achievements and what this book does, in my opinion, It shows you to be a real human being. Thank you because we don't think of our Supreme Court. Justices is being real human. That's because we wear robes. No, no, we don't think he was cooking in the kitchen with your relatives of orbit dancing, we don't think of you as human beings. What do you think we are President Obama was considering you, but the Supreme Court. I thought he was crazy
No seriously, I not abetting woman but among all of my friends I kept telling them he's. Never gonna pick me. Not in a million years is he gonna pick me. I had a very contentious nomination to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. I just thought they join get. Gets more contentious offered. Each one was harder and harder, and I couldn't figure out why he would Aleck to go in to a battle
For me, and so I was in total disbelief when I was called that they're so when he called you, I was at home and he got on the phone and she said judge I was a judge. Then I have decided to make you my nominee to the United States Supreme Court and I don't cry and the tears started to come down just shot out there just shut out, and my heart was beating so hard that I actually thought he could hear my heart really and I had my right hand. Can reform was in my laughed, I had my hands on my heart, trying to quiet.
And it was the most electrifying moment of my life fantasy. Yes, but a moment in which you sin and realise that you ve gone further than any train. You ever had that you ve reached something that never seemed possible. It is an old. Well, meaning moment, President Obama ask that you make him to promises, as they were, follow the advice of his team, which I told him I would do, and I think I do and the second was to stay connected to my community and my response to him was. Mr President, that's an easy promised to make. I dont know how to do anything. How does we bought you couldn't be disconnected My community still today gives mystery the kids I made inspire me to keep go.
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Best fiends, free on the Apple Appstore or Google play that's friends without the are best fiends. Queen, Cor Justice, Sonya, suddenly air and her younger brother, one junior were born. Into one and Selina Saddam lawyer, who came to New York from Puerto Rico? Silly that was a nurse one, a factory worker with a third great education. Justice. Automaker, grew up in a crime with Bronx Housing project for another They had heard you use the stairwells because they were littered with needles and other drug paraphernalia when they, Thus it was just nine years old, her father, an alcoholic died suddenly from a hearted, just as Saddam. Your rights that are a mother devastated by the death and became cold and distant
The only escape from the chaotic whirled around her was reading from the set of encyclopedias her mother had bought for the family. How do you think you were affected growing up with an alcoholic father, you become a watchful child and I listened very, very carefully to the world around I think it children who live with parents who are drug addicts or alcoholics or have psychological challenges you. So learn to watch people We're looking for those subtle physical signs that Oh you trouble is coming. Ended up being great for me, because when I was a lawyer, I knew how to watch people so that when a witness has it my mind, which is raised to the conclusion of a trying to hide something. What is it.
And I would dissect the story in my brain and nine out of ten times. I would figure out the whole that they were trying to avoid, and so can you tell us about that? moment when, as a child, your father had died and your mom there has gone into this dreadful morning that you didn't understand, because they argued all time, and now she is crying all the time and you had fought in some sense that but we, your father, died that things would give easier as a nine year old. Didn't you Billy, grow up understanding that my mom and dad had actually loved each other. They fought so much. I never knew and found out that he and my mother had actually had a romance and that they actually loved each other, and even when she was home, you describe that you and your mother shared a bad. Your brother and father shared bed
Actually loved each other, and even when she was home you describe that, you and your mother shared bad, your brother and father shared bed. I think I remember you saying it's like laying next to a log, because she would turn her back to you at night, cold and distant. You know writing about personal moments like that is very, very difficult, and I think what I wanted was to give whoever read the book, who had those moments of just feeling completely alone in the world to give them hope Hope hope, because it doesn't have to be that way, And also forgiveness, but that in itself to feel that you are with this person will even they're in the house with you. Many children feel that way up, even though their they're they're not really there, so that that's even worse and abandoned
I think, because you can explain why I feel so alone, with you even being here. It took us Many years in repairing our relationship to become what it has, and I don't think, there's a friend or any one else in my life who doesn't know how much I adore my mother and help out, I am of her and how extraordinary she is, but we're both frail human beings. Everyone makes mistakes in life. One of the most compelling stories that you tell in my beloved world, you paint picture for us so vividly there. You are this aid. You, oh girl, whose discovered that you have diabetes juvenile diabetes. You have to give yourself a shot every day I give myself three. Six shots, and they do you remember the mole
and at the sensation, as an eight year old girl. When you made the decision, I will give myself the shots. Yes, that's US story that has stayed and Belize and in my mind they cause it did become the most of my growing into an adult yeah. You know I'd at that was a seminal moment. Absolutely yes, because when you can take control of something like you, disease and manage it liberates you into thinking that everything in life is possible here that adversity want knocking. In its two hundred twenty three year, history, Justice Sonya Saddam a year, is the first hispanic person to sit on the Supreme Court of the United States during her, confirmation hearings Your comment that justice, it made about being a wise latina, caused an uproar of controversy,
Some conservatives brow did Sonya Saddam, I you're a reverse racist The New York Times said justice: autonomy are, we, in calm, cool and low key during that process. Should overwhelmingly confirm with sixty eight to thirty one vote? Suddenly, you are thrust onto at national and international stage in a way that even you had not been. As judge before you had said, two thousand one. I would hope that a wise latina woman, with the richness of our experiences with more often than not reach a better. Inclusion than a white male who hasn't live that life, and that was repeated and repeated and repeated. Did you regret saying it or do you think your comment was misunderstood? My comment was clearly misunderstood and it was taken out of court. Anyone who reads the whole speech understands that the audience I was talking to were always young people.
And what I was trying to convey to them was the fact that they are a wife experiences. Add value. Everything you describe in the pages of my beloved world has value at that everything that happened into your life in Europe, bringing yours around and it's not to suggest that they are incapable of understanding the same things I do, but it's not intuitive forth. What my speech was trying to communicate was were equal. We bring maybe a different kind of richness, but its richness to the head of a Hispanic National BAR association. Carlos orgies said that you carry the hopes and aspirations of more than fifty million people. Speaking up for lunch, you knows that a lot of pressure,
huge. Do you feel that I didn't think I will mostly because at first sight and believe it was true tat. I actually didn't understand it. So after I became a justice because we you the first. If anything, you carry the hopes and dreams. Yes,. You write about and on going up in being a minority, you say I didn't know. I had a son of limitation. Until I got into the greater world what people say to you that made, you feel your porter weakness, you let tee menace I've spoken about this honest. And I do even now, when I was nominated to the Supreme Court, one of the many tax was that I wasn't smart enough. That statement has followed me and every step of my career Is she good enough, as she smart enough is sheet capable enough? The people have to cut. You were break so that you can be successful
I dare say that I'm looking at you Oprah and that you have experienced the same, a little bit, we too, but you know what I have actually loved it, because I've been underestimated every step of the way me to every step of the way, and it's so exciting. When you can prove them all: oh, it is wonderful arabesque. You know I haven't given up on the hope. That we really will be an integrated society someday, don't think we're fully barrier absolutely, but I haven't given up the hope that we might be. After graduating Summa come Lahti and five eighty cap from Princeton University justice autumn. I married her highschool sweetheart cabin nooning in the summer eighteen. Seventy six she went on. Yale LAW School and became a successful Manhattan prosecutor and corporate attorney, sir, ten years into their marriage, she and Kevin Divorce, the just
This has never remarried and has no children. Why did your marriage fail obvious while separated and remain friends, but why? Why, essentially, did it at anything, I think when you marry young, you run the risk is in and the risk that we ran into that you grow in different ways in different directions. I was completely consumed with her when I started as a dossier in Manhattan, and I really wasn't paying attention to him. I take full responsibility for that part of the end, but he also, as he explained to me at one time at the end of our Eric? Actually, after that he began to fear not being a successful aside.
And he's a very generous man and he said to me in a very kind and loving way, but he said you know when we were in high school and you were doing so well, I I just kept thinking it, because she works at it and when I decide to work harder at it, I'll be just as successful, and he said one day I woke up realizing that, no matter how hard I worked, I might not be as successful as you and that led me to think that she really need me, and it was a difficult issue for him to discuss with me and a hard one for me to hear.
I loved him and I knew he loved me, but did I need him in the way that he wanted me to meet him? He was probably right that I do not in that way a feeling that I couldn't live without her. So next question: how does one date when one is a so pretty. Quiet cheapest is. I have no idea because I haven't been able to some sort of talk about intimidating good Lord. I worry about that. Let me tell you I haven't had the time since I was nominated and confirmed this. I've been sort of completely inundated, my or drowning in my work, but at some point I'll pick up my
I didn't say it's time to date again when I do that you're gonna find the guy. For me, I gotta get in line with a long list of re. No behind me just be next to you in the justices. Hang out. The justices hang well. I guess we don't go to a local bar on Friday. The second attempt the night away, but we spent a lot of time during the work we together. Not only are we in court all the time we have lunch all the time together and occasionally we play cards together. So, yes, we do hang out just in a quiet aware, jug, judges hang is this the most fun you ve ever had being a judge on the Supreme Court. Is it everything you imagined to be? No? No.
And nobody cared yes and I loved my work. Then I had a freedom that when you become a justice, your deprived of really and that's not to suggest on happy so wonderful life and I'm doing things. I never imagined some very, very grateful, but trust me a particular question. Is it the most fun you ever had the answer, truth not to suggest an unhappy in his wonderful life and I'm doing things. I never imagined I'm very, very grateful, but trust me a particular question. Is it the most fun you ever had and the answer truthfully is not really not really. The life I gave up was the most fun I ever had. Thank you for that. Time and beautiful I was built a brother
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Transcript generated on 2020-06-10.