From January 8, 1993: Oprah interviews self-help author and Oprah Show regular guest Harville Hendrix, who teaches us how to make our relationships not only last longer, but become happier. He talks about overcoming trust issues, childhood wounds appearing in adulthood and how marriage is a structure for healing. He also works with several couples on making their love last and discusses his books Getting The Love You Want and Keeping The Love You Find. Oprah explains how Getting the Love You Want helped improve her relationship with Stedman Graham. Of Harville’s work, Oprah says, “I saw relationships not solely as the kind of romantic pursuit our society celebrates, but as a spiritual partnership that's meant to change how you see yourself and the world.” Harville is a New York Times best-selling author, international speaker and couples therapist with more than 40 years of experience as an educator, clinical trainer and lecturer who has appeared on The Oprah Winfrey Show 17 times.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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and pick moments from the four thousand five hundred sixty one episode, we taped over twenty five years. I hope that these classic Oprah shows we hope to continue to eliminate your path, but you were meant to be subscribed. The Oprah show the pad cast an apple pie Casper wherever you find your podcast and begin the journey to your best self, every single person ever will meet shares that common desire they want to know. Do you see me, do you him? That's what I stay me anything. You are listening to the upper Winfrey show the podcast. Smart and strong. I knew a successful in every area of your life but love. What is it that keeps from having a happy love life. They shouted a is going to help. You unlock a lot of those views because that's really what it is and recognise patterns that you
keep repeating and the partners at new choose and the beauty of the show is that apply to everybody. What do you married with your divorce with your single and what are you looking with your looking to single looking to the rhythm, and you already had the one we already have everybody, and this hour ahead we're going to look at a relationship that is just ending and one that is just beginning and all the problems that happen in between, guiding us through this hours, a man who has done really some incredible groundbreaking work with couples by helping to teach To examine the patterns that we set up our childhood. Now, once you get it, I'm telling you it changes the way you look at the choices that you ve made horrible hindrance As the author of getting the love you want, and the book keeping the love you fine, so we ve learned a lot from you. Thank you learned a lot from learning from you. Thank you very much now. One of the things I like about this is that there are a whole lot of cause and effect that you set up yes one that concerns me, is it
or abused as a child, you may pick an abusive partner or be an abuse of yourself. Yes, that's all the case of whatever happens in childhood, whether its milder intense there's, something that's going to replicated seven adulthood in an intimate partnership because the earth, childhood experience where there's a wound has to be repaired, and it's always has repaired and relationship in adulthood with somebody similar to your parents sat tat you get over. That fell because, since I believe that that all of my listen ships in my twenties and early thirties. Were I continued. The abusive pattern that I set up in my childhood Hood Stedman is not an abusive person, so I think I've gotten over that that clue when you're saying that in the twenty seven thirty, she began to work on some things in herself. But that means yes, you can get over it, but only if you work Because every suddenly enough harmful- as you know, if so this year, when first started, you know dealings when he was so kind to me. I thought something was wrong with you right: yeah. It is
only patterns. Do you suppose the amount of funds now so I was a little boring and low soaring being treated well disposed that bad stuff is treated badly, that when somebody treat me well, it was like Kay so now, but it wasn't, is that you stayed with the process that many times when people meter person who can happen gratitude and my head to head the work that was often you throw that person away there too, or anything treated well treated well and to throw them away because their boring their treating as well we're not getting the drama we got in childhood, overthrow them away, because we are getting the drama because we are getting the hurts so like you stayed through that process, where'd? You learn more about anti very much, I'm ok. Now this is. If you have a problem with trust, you probably grew up in a home anybody ever problem. We trust. Ok, ok, if you have a problem with trust, is because, You grew up in a home where somebody probably left you were abandoned you and so
the trust that issue of reliable people is replicated in adulthood, really so how then get over it. I know somebody's going through that will one is. Do you have to work on it and you can work in any number of relationships, overtime, the place where most people have to work, it is in the relationship they commit to and they will always commit to find somebody we'll be unreliable for them and what they have to do is become conscious of that pattern, repeating itself and then the person who is unreliable has to learn to be reliable but it also true that if you grew up in a relationship where you were away, and either emotionally or physically, abandon your parents died or young or your parents divorcing. You felt a sense of abandoned that you can. Pick. Somebody and they're not really doing anything to cause you to mistrust, but you are so you have those buried, feel It was rather, you all, are automatically think they're gonna be not trusted,
and because you say that all the time they begin to wait. Ten, then that's that's a very common tactic to early in the technical term, for that is projective identification. That means I projectile do that you're not trustful and then for, while the person begins to distrust, be distrustful, they begin to act like what you think they're going to act like what are you either you either Peckham provoke M are projected onto them, but if you had a if the other problem in childhood. You gonna big somebody to help you redo it if they dont than your projector and that they are, and if they're not your provoke them into doing it, because we have to resolve that issue. Ok, this is such important work doing, and I've really learned all the shows that I've done. I think I've really learned the most from you caution with the person who started this and started. I think the country thinking about how patterns that you set up in your childhood, are always things that you repeat: do I'll get that now glimmer the very for show. Yet where people set on I have anything to do with a marriage is- and I remember you saying childhood
so you married get it to get at its request. Ok you were smothered in your childhood, you fall in love with somebody, who's smother you or you'll, smother them or both. Yes, if you had a possessive over protective parent real reason, but you'll internalize two different patterns. One is you'll grow up annually a tree. Somebody who is a possessive, but if they don't start doing that, then you'll switch. A doll relationship. You'll either act like the child that you did with your parents. Are you behave like the parents behave towards you is child, isn't it it's really fascinating and is so predictable until you break the patent till you break the pattern and you have to break the pattern by becoming conscious of it and then deliberately internally, saying I'm going to back off and not be a possess, a person anymore, I'm gonna! Let this person have some space and that changes something or you're going to say you. I've never had
the space before I've been dominated and smothered, and I'm gonna yielded to it. I'm gonna asked for space, but it has to become an awareness consciousness and then a decision to act in a different where the magnificent about this with you sit down and think of it, I mean, I know a lot of people cause. I've been in conversations of people trying to explain this and everybody a lot of people rejected at first. But then, if you think about it, what you just said either you because you the child, more you are the parent or the poor, and the reason you are that way is because what will because in trouble You absorb the parents, and internalized some inside you just like a sponge cake, Taiwan will ever was the loan guardian, whoever the caretakers Edward that on whom we were dependent for. So you of that inside and then you have your experience of being a child with those persons so in adulthood. When stimulus comes to be in the town. Mojo go you're redress or Somebody may be acting like a child will shift to the parent mode, but that's your model.
So you can download a little and then so you behave out o the model you knew until then. People who deny you can't help, but act like that cause. That's what you know that, don't you know now you're criticizes the child. What happens will if your criticism, as a child? Then you will marry critic in order to meet. In the relationship and resolve that or are we have come a very critical person or become a critical high economic growth, a person yourself and your switch back and forth. If your partner, in sizing you so that you feel like a child, then you will find some iniquity. As in them, so you take the parent role and put them in the role of the job. Ok, if you were shamed and child, this is a really hard won. Thus, if you're ashamed and childhood meant, you were made to feel bad like you were bad, not You did bad things right, but that is a person you're bad You will then grow up. That's an unresolved problem. You look for a shameful in order to. The shaming issue through? That's the thing to say to yourself or you'll: do it to yourself or you'll? Do it to the partner that you connect gained
thing is not that we just like repeating patterns pattern repeating it, to resolve the pattern you repeating, so we needed this is a positive attempt and people Peter Piper picked up a computer, piper, bigger meaning is trying to resolve the matter, ensure repeating that's right, you repeat it not to experience it again, but do not experience again. You repeated cause you're trying not to because you're trying to do and cunt but you, but you keep on doing it because you don't have another option
Isn't it about time that your weight loss plan took you into account with a new programme from W W Wait, watchers re imagined you can get your own customized, unproven weight loss plan simply take the personal assessment and answer a few questions about your eating habits and behaviors, and let W w match you with a customize weight loss plant that can make losing weight, easier visit, W w dot com and join W W for free get one month free, plus a freak upper hurry offer any January thirteenth purchase required restrictions apply. What I've learned is that, given the mistake that so many people have made is that they went into marriage with an idea of it. Just an expected. Since a chain somehow or expected the person to fit their idea of what the marriage was going to be, but that person didn't know that
I deal with this in mind, you know it's unfortunately right, you know they're not walking around with your pictures in their head who they should be. So one of the things tat you do in the book, keeping the love you find. One of the things I thought is that there's a whole questionnaire is where you get to right watch what you expect, what he expects way yet, and we ve done and when you get the writing, you become also aware that you have a picture in your mind. Sometimes you don't even know you have an ideal, but you know what is so fascinating to me when I did that exercise ox gives me photographer myself, but When I do, that exercise is that I realise that I really didn't have it makes me emotional think about. I didn't have a picture of what marriage was because my parents never married. So I was very hard for me to answer them questions because I had no idea what is supposed to be or what that means so no model.
Your own mind about what marriage is supposed to be, so it had to be totally construct s on making it up. So you make it up either either from the pictures that are available in the culture or other peoples or from your own imagination. But then, even wherever you get the picture, When you get into the marriage it didn't fit the picture so the new transatlantic agenda, the picture, then you try to get the person to fit the picture. That's what people have done and they don't know that they're supposed to have a role in your moving or in their movie and so consequently, that's what produces a conflict? We used to think that was a really destructive thing. What were now getting to understand that conflict is really natural right that you can avoid this process its natural and is the precondition for the kind of growth you need to do in adulthood that you fail to do, and child as all relationships, especially intimate ones. Are there to teach you to grow all that's all there, their return to grow. Ok, I want you, May Dale and carry because nine years of dating eight years of damage they are now considering divorce, didn't
this sound familiar to you quite a bit until I'll be on soon until you mentioned that about the critiquing, and if you had somebody that someone critiques you during your childhood that you might find somebody to critique you as an adult until that moment actually had no idea, that's pretty much exactly what I did while I'm sure it was meant to be positive. In my growing up, there was a lot of critiquing and I think so stubborn and decided to prove. I was who I was, and I did pick someone who pretty I saw you shaking her head when I was speaking so I know somebody outlined very critical about exactly what you saw a man. You were criticised a lot as a child in a lot of ways. It was for the betterment, but it was always because I was I was pretty stubborn. I wanted to hold my own and be who I was, and even if it was a little bit different, so this future to think about racism. It's always come from parents with their best intentions. Grids is designed to improve your butt but what we don't know if criticism actually results in injuring you are, and I also agree about the conflict thing. It would be great,
you could get it out earlier as a child. I try that a lot with our son. You know Drake if you're angry. Let us know in this that in the other, because I think if you do hold it in your whole childhood, it does come out. Coming later and where it shouldn't becoming out. Ok. So why are you all thinking of divorcing? Now because, maybe after hearing all this, you could work the stuff out, maybe especially when you were saying about, could taking honestly that hit like Van Billina, actually believe at the mayor of lifestyle. Do we want different things? Well, different things about strong, strong people stand up for our own right, some that, I think we forgot to melt, we don't argue whenever he had problems with fighting arguing. It was mostly she I have one thing in life and I want something entirely different. I little book a Baton Florida, I want to stay there in this. Enjoy their kind of life carry wanted to be It can Chicago worth your friends enough anymore. Activity where she could go to things and I didn't blame around the EP is he said I couldn't bring myself to element
are you all going to divorce now you're going to divorce now? What is it you there's something you saying the book. I forgot exactly raising that unless you really separate, unless you say goodbye to that, then you what something happened. Well, if you don't say goodbye to the relationship or at least to the marriage, want to keep the relationship. Then you will carry the unresolved issues of that relationship into the next relationship. The whole point in prayer, duration for marriage. You need to finish what you didn't finish or what's left over from another relationship and this goodbye processes since an essential ingredients and getting ready to go on to your next relationship or to go on to your life. If you decide not to go on to another relationship but of any state- and so
What we're going to do as a good bye process, New decided, carry that you're going to do the good bye part and I'm gonna ask you to just listen to it and may prompt you to do some mirroring back to say back to her what your hearing, your site, the structures to start by saying goodbye to the bad stuff in the relationship that will never be again. So when you start with that and lets say goodbye to being, could take this often as I was to always having to prove that I'm better than what you thought. I was, and I like to say goodbye to some of the formality that existed between us and I'll, be happy to say goodbye to the struggling with who I am, on the one hand, to make you happy and on the other, to make me happy
Ok, so just briefly, can you paraphrase back the part, the bad part she saying goodbye to an relationship share accurate critiquing, she's right? I don't explain it just say so. I'm hearing you say, you're saying goodbye to the critiquing just Neuro it back and paraphrase it back to the living up to my standards instead of yours. In doing what I want you to do, and I really feel that. Any that's true, but I don't know when to come. I just want you to paraphrase back during those in the goodbye process. We don't want an argument. We just want her to because this is her experiencing what her to say goodbye to her. Besides of this and then we would ask you to say goodbye to all the bad stuff on your side
so now shift to the next thing. What is the good stuff in the relationship that will ever be again because of the end of the relationship? I guess I'll have to think it bites the warmth and comfort I feel with you. I have to say goodbye to the great sense of humour we enjoyed. We both had a great sense of humour and an excellent excellent friendship. I think for a while, in order for me to hear looking so near that briefly, I hear you saying good. The good stuff you're saying goodbye to is is our relationship are, for our friendship have been able to talk with one another, the others friendship really there. We are good friends, very good friends, so now the next thing is the dream that will never come into being because at the end of the marriage, should you say goodbye to the dream
I have to say goodbye to the dream of growing altogether, losing our t, their hair and the whole retain. I really I waited till. I was thirty to get married because I really wanted to be right. I was so sure I was right. I really meant it when I took those vows and the dream is that it's not going to be the till death. Do its part to say goodbye to that So if I'm hearing you write mirror that you're, saying I to the to the dream the fact that we could get all together and be altogether and share our lives together and have any a relationship forever? I haven't a marriage forever. Say goodbye now, since I'm understanding do or not saying goodbye to the relationship, we want to remain friends say goodbye instead to the marriage
And anything you want to say about that, to sort of say goodbye to an end, to bury it say goodbye to the marriage. It is no longer it's a real waste, it could have been wonderful. I think, if for a lot of different reasons, and it had its downsize to a lot, but it is history- and I am saying goodbye to it- varied, missed opportunity in life, though this guy, I guess there it is the waste wasting sixteen years. Friendship and relationship and that she really, since you saying goodbye to the marriage there, the marriage are to be indicated, their marriage bar, but not to the relationship less at the relationship the mirroring technique, is just to make sure that you were heard because Most cases, that's what most people just really want is to know that you were heard is accurate and
bout that yes and without the mere owing bank. You may think that you heard, but you bond. What you made up rather than to what was sent so consequently or behaviour, looks really crazy. It has nothing to do with what was said right so that you have the person. You are valued make sure that what are you said was heard the way you said it would be sure they gotta gotta. Ok, ok, so now we want to do the good bye process. Ok with you, so start again with what is the bad stuff start with the bad stuff that won't ever be again with the end of this sum, marriage. Ok. Can I ask you to do the mirroring process, but I want to say goodbye to feeling third and fourth choice and tell her where our son came first, which is understandable, but her parents came second, her friends came third indent, friends, your friends, your proclaims, third and then made in every consideration in every way she yandah
all of us are you you in any way that you handled Oliver, principally without your friends. My friends, you didn't really care for what it was. I was your friends and I want to say goodbye. When you come off from work instead of saying a loaded me way, they have me, go right to the phone call up your mother and then your friends and two or three hours later got around to me when I say goodbye to when I would say: let's clean the houses in the floors, let's take care of it. You re sake, but I dont have any color. Today I want to go by the poor. I don't have any color and you would leave and go by the poor John when you say goodbye to have, I think, a bite of how back. But let me just stopped that point, so we can get to the next piece of this too, and ask you to briefly mirror that back. So if I've got it you're saying goodbye to, I got it you're saying goodbye to being third. Fourth and fifth, my putting our sun, which was understandable, but my family and friends had a view that when you wanted to do things and accomplish things, I brush that off too in
simply to summon up that I never ever major number one. Did I get the right? Did I get it right? We get it right. Ok, now shift to the good stuff. That will never be a game with the end of this month, tailored to say goodbye to death, with a lot of fun, lotta, good conversations and out to her your enthusiasm about everything you get from. Who came in to work and who you talk too and there I never had a really carry a conversation that you can carry the whole conversation that you're always smiley. You are always up, never depressed, don't we could go play.
Do things and I never had to be embarrassed of your that you never would be. Let me just bring, it does put the last say goodbye to all of that all the good stuff. Would you to say that I think about our lab then more equipped clearing your right, then you are saying goodbye to my very upbeat attitude, my enthusiasm for life, love and friends and the things we were able to do together and share together at my hearing a correctly except for the French, yes, ok, and so, let's just move on to the next piece open and that they can do to correct that and now would you say goodbye to your dream. In the end, the marriage.
So I said goodbye to write to the dream of being with you in sharing all the things that we can wish you, nor were the hardship that we went through so that we could go to Florida and retire and we lay acts and enjoy life. So if I'm hearing you correctly, you saying goodbye to the dream of the hardship. In the years we ve put together and the life that we made for each at my hearing, you right, ok in the very quickly and so now I say good, bye to the marriage, and now I take a bite, marriage and say goodbye goodbye, goodbye. Ok joining us, our J and Madeline. They ve been going out now for about a year, but they already. Have some minor conflicts. She shy and he's the life of the party How is that? Bringing about conflict guys when go out before we go out. I usually ask me: who will be there?
there's any one that I know will be there and he gets mad at me that I ask him there and I'm the type or he'll go to a How can he won't know anyone but helps us talk to anyone and I'm the type where I walk and I'll talk to people, but it takes me a while to warm up. Isn't that what attracted you to him? Yes, So why is there no conflict cause? He gets mad at me, not being for all. He gets mad at me. When I ask questions, will who's gonna promises? Is I talk? A lot and I get along the people and when I when we go somewhere. I start go into the ground talking and I just assume everybody's like me, and I forget, sometimes are at the start talking everybody. I looked back and she's unlike hang around in a corner, doing slow burn out, we must do, is get me in a corner to yell at me,
then you know you know, you bless me here and you're having a good time, and I see I think that everybody is like me because I talk everybody talks. Guy talk, I now ok, I know what you want to say about this well, first of all, we want to do but to do an exercise about what to do with these frustrations when they do come up in the relationship. This is an easy thing to learn its a hard thing to do. But is essential in the preparation for a relationship that you may be going into, or for one that you're in to convert the first somebody's doing something, that's really frustrating to you all the time. This is what you do. This is what you do, what you usually do, which is your frustrating nag, nag, nag known and all of that seven Madeline is going to communicate a frustration to J say, me really mad. When we are going out that you jumped down me and say Why do you get that way? I want to come. It gets me man
You know how I am, but you yell at me, for how I I am so then the next process is to mirror that banks. Are you sure you ve got it J? So if I got it right If I got it right, I understand that I should be. All over you for not being more aggressive. Nothing is allowed, as I am that I get it did I get that right look, I know now we want you to change that frustration into what you would want, instead, which, if you hadn't you wouldn't be frustrated. We call that the desire, hidden in the frustration It only go out. I was there when we are at a party or somewhere, where I dont know a lot of people that you would come up put your arm around me and say how you doing that job. I got this right. You would like me to in the course of a party come seek you out,
But my arm around you say you doing all right, Ok, now what you do Find it a little more and say how many who usually, we should give a timeframe to it, which is the practice the training period like for the next step months. Each time read a party. I like it. It came up to me once or twice or three times or whatever you call it make it up, but this time it puts a timeframe to enter frequency to it. Ok, so we just make it more specific, new and positive change for the next month. I like when we do go to party. I, like you to come up to me and introduce me people and how many times once or twice or three times three men.
If I got it right, so you want me to and of course, the next month we go to these parties to come up to you at least three times and tell you that I'm thinking of you and that I know Diane this right to get money. I just stop you here and say and make a note of how important this is. Another reason why this struck me out off. Instruct you guys to is because so many times like when she said that at first, like I'd like you to come up to me of a party you having your own mind about, many times would make you comfortable, but he doesn't know what those times are unless you say it, but you assume that, because you ve now said I want you to come up to me at the party that he now that was how many times that's. Why the how many times, although it sounded little corny, really as really it's that is an essential, is the ultimate lay the critical part of and being created. Has your picture in her mine he's gotta, get it in his mind and then match the picture. Otherwise, that doesn't work right, cause you,
come up zero one time and in that's in his mind what it was and she was saying, but you only came at once. Yes- and that is why that yeah and and and this is going to say so- the closest off by thinking about this as a gift, can you see yourself gifting her, not a trade, our bargain nodded deal, but a pure gift that you can give her that within that time frame and that frequency as a practice and training period? Yes, sir, would you say that to her daughter, exactly what the gift will be? Your gift will be. If I understand this right from now on to the next, Can we go to an affair, a party or something I will try to find you at least three times a week?
I will. I will finally three times sorry. I will find you three times and just say: how are you doing you? Ok, everything our it is, as I say. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome is very important to in this exercise of changing our frustration into a behavior change. Requests that response be a gift rather than a trade rules. Often he could say I'll do that if yeah and if he says that, then it really. The gate set as a value to her. So there has to be done as a pure gift, ok, honey, stop choosing the wrong partners, because people continued repeat the same patterns. You know that repeating the pattern, because the pattern of repeating is about you all the way to stop choosing the wrong partner is a hard question to answer, because the person that you're going to choose is the person that you're a track to buy in the person you attracted to is gonna, be somebody who is going to be a source of pain and frustration for you
and that's inevitable, so that you're, just Ok, let's stop right there. Why is that inevitable, wiser than inevitable, because you always pics body whose similar to your parents and your brain to that person, the unresolved issue of your parents and you'll fall in love with that person. Thou be the person that's attractive to you. That's the romantic part of romantic things. Gonna go! Isn't it it's going go in the relationship to order to stop using the wrong partner. Is it you have to begin thinking about? becoming conscious yourself of the kind you pick yeah, knowing your owing to but start picking a person who is more conscious, more interested? what's going on in them in their own patterns and relationship, so that you can talk with them about this round then just acted out. Unconsciously everybody just doing the same thing. All the time become aware, is the person that I'm talking to now somewhat interested in how they interact with a partner or though they always blaming. Everybody, you know all women are the same. All men are the same, but they say
Sometimes I get upset and I blow my stack and I wonder why is that then you ve got somebody who's, probably possibly conscious,. And if you dont have somebody who is curious about themselves, you probably should keep looking until you find somebody who is curious. Ok, the problem is so many people choose a partner to fit the whole inside themselves does. Is that and that's true? fill the whole inside yourself, and but you have to feel that how well not really that? it's a certain truth in that the partner really has to respond to your needs. Marriage is a structure for healing and if you do, mediator, Early childhood neige will have the marriage of your dreams and if you don't you'll, have the marriage of your nightmares and you can predict that Dell the unconscious is pretty non negotiable about the fact that there are certain needs that have to be met? some time in your life and it's gonna bring those needs to a particular person and all who reminds you of your parents. Thank you that's for joining us I've
thinking. I'm gonna have a pretty nice marriage because you think I'm a proven free and you ve been listening to the upper Winfrey, show the podcast. You can follow this path, uninstall, Graham Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet go to apple pie, gas and subscribe rate and review this podcast, me next week for another Oprah show the podcast, and I thank you for listening. From the women who brought you queen, sugar, Emmy Award winning visionary filmmaker able to remain in executive producer offer when free comes, then you ain't that went. You drama series cherish today, exploring the stirring relationship of one young couple: storing Social Rock, more Olano Miller, Michael Beak and the legendary Sicily Thyssen. Every second, every minute. Every hour cherish today on Tuesdays tonight, central on on the upper Winfrey network.
Transcript generated on 2020-02-29.