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the two of you who are working silently behind the scenes to fight these criminal elements. What law enforcement gases we try to encourage people to be participants, they literally walking and patchy down and literally miss the wire that day. While there somebody on the front porch pitching cove at night in insurance. There's somebody at the back door breaking into the Damn house, You start your theology failed your way to fill in the blanks, and I have what is clearly a very exciting episode for me. For a couple reasons, you guys know how biggest supporter I am of law enforcement. It's been said many times that you ve cut doctor. Melanie bleeds blue. Am there There is nothing I'm proud or to confirm

I stand behind the men and women in uniform those from coastal coast and bordered border that stand in a gap to keep all of us safe when the programmes are most proud of on doktor fail as the programme. We call behind a badge where we talk to the men and women who do where the uniforms who do stand behind a badges, and I have two people joining us, the day that I think you were gonna absolutely be fascinated by one of them is a very good point a friend of mine, I'm gonna, tell you a little bit about em and the other guests before I let them speak the guests. As a good friend of mine that have known for a number of years and have worked with our number of occasions, is George Mueller, now George, as currently been appointed as the deputy commissioner of the enforcement branch of the California Department of insurance. Now this is a fraud.

Vision that investigate suspected fraud committed by consumers are organised criminal elements perpetrate again. The insurance companies that Georgia's a cop he served as assistant chief and bureau of it instigation for LOS Angeles, carry district attorney's office, and that's where I met him here. As assistant chief, he oversaw complex criminal investigations in automobile and current fraud workers, Cobb Health CARE, elder abuse, public corruption, organised crime he's been cover these All these served as pressure the California district attorney and investigators Association, he's really done at all and he and I have spoken before we ve done a lot of different things together. He's help me investigate a different things. He has an interesting

there with him today he has brought with him a professional concert. Harpist a soloists, ensemble member, that's perform, threw out too. Tree she's, performed on the young and restless as a member of the orchestra was doc severed. Son Tony Bennet, Loretta Land, stay really accomplice musician in such a fine and delicate art. She also is a thirty one year veteran of the LOS Angeles district attorney's office, currently serving as the head deputy of the Norwalk branch after seven here is heading the healthcare insurance fraud division, she served more than twelve years in the public integrity division, where, among other duty, she headed the team prosecutors that brought down the bell

city officials that were perpetrating, where the biggest frauds on the state out here in California that you ve probably heard about she's prosecuted public officials for fraud, perjury miss procreation funds scores of criminal cases dozens of gang related homicides, public corruption, crimes, she's cool right it, a joint FBI, LAPD Task Force, George describes her as well the best the aid there is I'm talking about George Mueller. Jennifer Lance Snyder, so thank you both for being here, I kissed cannot wait to talk to the two of you, George Jennifer. Thank you for joining me today. George, let me start with you: how are you do it I am do love doktor, filth, x, ray we're gonna get is always a pleasure to see you in there. I look forward to have dinner, but he soon I miss you. Well, we're gonna have to

Now this pretty soon so Jennifer tell me: how long have you known George? far too many years to count doktor birthright Georgian I go back. Into the nineties when I was workin gangs and he was working special options, have we spent a lot of time chasing after pretty renown, bad guys, including Should night and draw animal prior and then George. When- fried in his Georgian smarter one of the two, Must I followed him? So I've been doing fraud since two thousand and George started a little bit before me in our past, keep crossing in. We keep getting some pretty good outcomes. Yes, you certainly do cause I've studied both of you a lot at Jennifer. Let me ask you something: you have a such a storied history, in law enforcement and as a prosecutor. How does that but how did you wind up as a prosecutor and what

Is it about that that do so much it's it's a fabulous question thanks for asking my story is really a perfect example of one ass can change of persons So I was out LAS Vegas. A lot of money play in the hard for a whole lot of really really fabulous entertainers and at some point, my brain had atrophied between now and the advent of the synthesizer? I thought I had to come up with a plan b, so I started in law school and while I was at laws, will I thought well I'll stay in entertainment, industry and then yet the entertainment industry, lawyers and that really one my cup of tea, so we started doing move courts which were very much like the theatre, very performance oriented how to tell stories to people put their real stories about what really happens- and I came across a judge name MIKE Tyson and Judge- Tighten- was at the time for over the night Stocker trial, Richard Ramirez, a man who terrorized LOS Angeles County for years in here,

but a letter and said I want you to stop and reconsider your career choices, and, if you ever think about coming into public service, come talk to me And I got that letter out of my mailbox: it Pepperdine LAW School. I called him. I went watched and something really resonated for me, because it was a combination of real theater and community service and getting to do the right thing for the right reason every day, and that was nineteen, eighty cents. Well. Two years later, I became a deputy dossier and I haven't looked back. It use the best job in the law. It is the best way to assist communities that are in need. It keeps you, intellectually stimulated, and you work with great people. Like George, I mean it just doesn't get any better. Tell me about this night stalker situation just for people that dont know in both of you jump in cause. I know this was a

major major thing but described that situation for us while major Miriam? Was it serial killer, who sexually assaulted and us, and named and tortured for chicken. Lily women for a period of many many months so badly that in the middle of July, with nowhere condition People slept with their windows and doors lock, because they were terrified that this assailant was Benny, come in and kill them, and I dont remember the total number of people he killed, but I believe it was in the devil, digits and the cases of was unusual and more heinous, then virtually any other case. If we had seen eye because of how he executed his crimes and also the public was really entreaty because it was the first televised court trial.

So there were actually cameras in the courtroom, and this was a really unusual circumstanced back in the day in impact it how people behaved, including remembrance. Ultimately, the jury returned a verdict of death. As to MR mirrors, you want your sank when and he died of natural causes a few years ago, but the case itself was fraught with all kinds of legal issues and people were interested because they had been so terrorized by the fear of the night stocker. It was really added in its day the most compelling and brightening set of circumstances that anybody had seen? Where were you involved in the investigation of it more or the prosecution of it more? I was merely a spectator by I got to know that, people that were involved, and that is what caused me to pursue prosecutes,

when I got out a law school, I actually got hired first by the public defenders office, but through a series of circumstances and Judge Titans suggestion he felt that, be better drive in the car than being a passenger in the car. So I became a prosecutor instead of it, its journey, but in my mind, people on both sides of the bar have to have the same interests at heart. Road. You, George, you described, Jennifer is your opinion, the best day out there. Why do you say that of her passion for the job because she really wants to protect consumer and protect the citizens of illegality and eliminating now cornea I've somebody who will sit down with you in your partner when doing these tragic cases. She will walk you through it. You ask you the tough questions. She's gonna be a transparent do what she wants done and then, once you get in the car,

she's, probably one of the most are checking let professionals I've ever seen in presenting a case until it in his story and that story is checked it again. The consumer's she his hands down, and I'm so fortunate that I've been able to work with the recent years, one of the best prosecutors in California, if not of their country and if you want me to elaborate a little bit on the night Starkist Richard embarrassed, I actually got to track down some of the witnesses on that. If you want me to library, I do I want to know about that, so I had just left the local police. Where I was born and raised city of all here and rock, and I got over the dead You office, in coming from a small city of about a hundred thousand residents, go into account Are you alright, ten million people at the time

an overwhelming at first and I had started, there are nineteen eighty five and they wanted me to go out and tracked down, which is on the night. Stop her in support of the prosecution team. Remember going to one of the families are Acadia were richer nurse had broken in and how bad it was where he had actually kept these people and taken their blood and written their names are written type. Satanic things on the walls of their house remember sit in the courtroom with them was also, and if there was ever the devil, if you want to see a picture of the devil, richer Amerika was the devil. You can into his eyes and see this blank stare and being alone. Fourth, doktor filled out much scares me, but that individual scared, the hell out of me, looking at him and seen how he looked at you. He was the true Deb charges, absolutely right after Phil the opportunity being court when Richard Ramirez his mother was there and he bore a very strong resemblance to his mom. When

look in the mines eyes, you saw warmth and humanity and when you looked into richer mirrors his eyes. His eyes were almost reptilian. There was absolutely no humanity, it was. It was really bone shilling. If so,. Rage. When you can look at a mother- and you see one thing in her eyes and something else in her side and ass, the psychological aspects to this there's something courses I just heard dna and there's nature, nurture their what you get dna wise in what people expect It's in life and Heather Environment impacts them, but that's a big leap to go for when you say that has compassion and carrying in there as to some one, is the actual embodiment of evil their own child what the hell happens is the big question but something that has dragged me in my career. That's fascinated may about how someone can go from a caring mother to becoming the devil.

Garnet, walking the earth doing the things that this person did when you judge, jury watch, someone like this. It actually changes, some one sits on a jury that has to spend time a judge that has to spend time pressure, Peters? It has to spend time with people like that it changes who they are losing you guys have, but with gang members as well, and you have a gang members on the show that are reformed and there's a disconnect with the public. That does not understand how strong the connection is. A myth these gang members that law enforcement has to come up against and you have had to with that. But there truly is a bond among these gang members. Such y'all have to go up against and that connection. However, misguided is very real. True absolutely the gang replaces the family

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, doktor fill that most of these gang members go to become part of a gang because of the breakdown of familial structure in plants don't grow. Sometimes, unless you give me relative to the child, isn't gonna grow up if it doesnt have guidance in a lot of these kids find their guidance they find their structure and the gang that exist in the power that again you yield. So if you want to get into mind of a gangster you got understand, their values are the gangs values which may be very different than anybody else's, but it is what they feel they belong to, Those bonds are nearly indestructible voters to have nowhere else. To turn up. Yours is. I've talked to some of these. Gang members that are now out of it and are reformed. They tell me that as misguided as it is, and as much as they do the things that they shouldn't do commit the crimes that they commit

that their love, their Bonn, their connection. Their loyalty runs deep and it is real because they field there's nowhere else they fit, and I have always said, the number one need in all people is acceptance. Belongings and the gangs provide that for these kids that have it from nowhere else. An its seductive its mesmerizing to them? And so when people look at that, Don't understand why these kids would go do this because they get that need met nowhere else in its hard to crack that it's hard to get them to turn on each other, once you deal with it, I don't know how you do it, but I know sometimes it happens it in once they get into prison the matter of survival right at that point. They do it just

to stay alive once they get in prison. True enough, you know it's interesting how now the power is coming down back to the county from at least our state prisons, and it's been that way for some time. George. Can about that much better than I, but in a when we worked on the Word Witness protection programme several decades ago. It was it was, bizarre to me that we didn't have something in place already and the good is now is. We do have the means by which to help break those cycles, but those those bonds are still really tight A lot of the activity has gone underground in its my observation that that's making it even harder for law enforcement to have any impact and to break those chains in to get people to find their way out. We'll work, things that I know very clearly is you ve got to offer them a viable alternative? If you want them to know

remain loyal to this dysfunctional connection. I have with gangs you ve got to offer them somewhere else to belong somewhere else to be somewhere else that they can feel like. They have a meaningful role, and I do see price, rest being made in those regards, but if you don't offer them a viable alternative, it's never gonna happen and ill street crime. One thing and both are you guys, have had a lot of experience and that in some of the high profile cases ill, my listers would never forgive me. If I didn't ask you guys talk about some of your most interesting and high profile cases before we talk about the fraud aspect of it, which is so intriguing as well, but you mention showed night, for example, talk about that and what was involved in the investigation and prosecution I'll. Let you our agenda with your case? Well

Bill Hodgman, who is also part of the OJ team, was my boss at the time and should night was involved in a series of probation violations for some existing crimes that he'd been convicted of, and it was a really really difficult Circumstances but bill and me, and a team of investigators and George LAD, went out and got the information that was necessary? That in many ways was a precursor to some of the criminal behaviour that we saw in the ensuing decades. So doktor feel when you talk about how these behaviors began and continue. That's it

perfect example of somebody who had a huge amount of power, a lot of money, a lot of success in a commercial sense, but couldn't get himself away from the street element and, as a result, his empire fell apart. He finds himself in prison, no that's kind of the untold. Story of what happens in the gang lie? A lot of these gang members are only glorified when they die ears. But he who was a leader iii, a king pan. If you will- and I couldn't get out of the very activities that caused its downfall despite well despite power in that It was part of what we saw. What continued for a number of years georgian his investigators actually had to go out on the street and convince people to come in and justified, and that in it in and of itself, was an extraordinary task. They did a fabulous job of. It remains true trying to find work

yeah I'm gang cases where the most difficulty in it? What do you find when you out try to get somebody to testify against someone like you should night, I mean. Are they truly fearful of there I have in our they write that their lives are injured, Do you play do something like that yeah? I know Dale tracking, that witnesses on game cases, murder cases things like that are the most difficult to do, one of them not to go into hiding because they do not want to be found and then trying to build poor with them in a relationship with them, or they can trust you and are you pointed out about my fear not only for themselves. As Jane said, you know when I go to prison or where they pass way. That's kind of the right to pass it to be a gang member with a really worried about their family members, because family members usually can't move in the Witness Protection programme. If we. And with this, and they want to cooperate, we give them the opportunity. We will relocate them to an undisclosed, location and alone.

Don't want to leave the area that the army could there so used to living in that environments and that's where their friends are sold it to two really try to get them to meet art coming to court in testified is one the most difficult things that we have to do, and sometimes we do not succeed it but we have to build a report. You have to show that even a little better respect, even though their gang members they also desire or want mutual respect, see bill that respect. But it doesn't happen over one million multiple times, meaning what them getting to know them getting pursued in their family and how they like make a difference and take about actor like should night off the street brother criminals are really think most people in everyday walks of life. All this goes on invisible to the every citizen? Would you agree absolutely absolutely at clearly people see

users drive it up and down the street. They see people in uniforms in stuff, and we all appreciate those people that you give a show of forced to maintain order, and most people interact with officers in traffic situation that ninety nine percent of the public in when they deal with law enforcement, it's a traffic situation or whatever they realize. What's going on behind the scenes with people like the two you who are working silently behind the scenes to fight these criminal elements to get him off the streets because what they are doing, whether its putting together drug rings, theft rings do the things that do victimize the general public. Somebody has to be working to push back against that all the time and that's what you guys describing right now and it frankly doesn't get much attention it just gotta happens silently,

behind the scenes, and that's why they want to take a few minutes to talk about that, because this stuff goes on twenty four seven, three hundred and sixty five days a year year after year and like here, an ally for example in the air. County district attorney's office and how many investigators are there, George, in the La County, DA's office, when I was there as a assistant chief, we had to under ninety nine investigators to other ninety nine investigators, and I would guess most people would I have no idea that many investigators working on this stuff around the clock, so there's just a lot that goes on Dr Phil most people don't even realise that the district attorney's office had their own police department. They always dig it. It's just the attorneys prosecuting cases, and we were the fourth largest police agency in LOS Angeles County behind LAPD, the sheriffs and Long Beach police department, and we only higher detectors or police officers that had prior law enforcement,

asked that are out there with your comes the gangs, homicides narcotics, organised crime, and we were right. The best organizations in the country that, when it came to investigating criminal cases and as much as we miss you, George, the bureau is still a really strong set of investigators actor fill. You brought something up that that I wanted to elaborate on, and that is its not just about eater interceding to stop bad behaviour is also about empowering the public and in a gang setting. If you can give a neighborhood control over its streets so that people can still sit outside on their front porges, so that kids can still walked to school without being afraid that they're gonna get shot That's a big part of what law enforcement does and you may be talking before about the eight nine family. That was one of the things that we in concert with the FBI.

A lady, a bureau? Did we were able to help people understand that they could take their neighborhood back really small section of LOS Angeles, relatively small, but very deadly gang, so part of what law enforcement does is not just respond a bad behavior, but is also about trying to empower the peoples who are compliant and who just want, live in peace and let them know that they can step in and take control of their neighborhood. That's part of what you do when you talk to somebody about coming in and testify, because, if you think about it, a lot of us drive by traffic accidents all the time and nobody stop straight. It's an inconvenience why and I want to be a witness God. The insurance adjusters are gonna call

what a pain? Why do we do that? You know what law enforcement does as we try to encourage people to be participants. We recognize with the threats are, but if we can help them find their way to participate in it, then it empowers them, and that has an enormous impact on there. All your life and their feeling of confidence. We must talk about the first. I use you brought up such a great pointer for what do you say to people in an atomic waste inner city, but in the neighborhoods? What can people do because one of the main themes I've tried to say People during this quarantine is you're, not helpless, one of the biggest stress oars that causes people to who get depressed have anxiety or whatever is if there is a situation that negative

such as this virus is floating around and they feel like there's nothing. They can do their helpless. Thirty sing they're waiting for something bad happened and I've tried to communicate to people. That's not the case. You're not helpless. There things you can do behaviorally the social distancing wearing ass, washing your hands, doing the things that you can do to protect those in your family or your social circle that are vulnerable, their elderly or have underlined conditions protecting them doing things to stem the tide of this thing. You're not helpless, you can determine the outcome of this for yourself and the same thing is true for Our society in general with people feel it boy we're going to Helen a hand basket. We're not they held a hand basket, as a society, we have the ability to take control of our neighbourhood, take control of our streets and I'm not talking about being vigilantes going out there doing crazy things, overstepping our bounds, but just ABC

something say something having neighbourhood watch programmes calling the police were necessary volunteering, what you know doing things, but what do you say to people? organizing and being actively involved in their community. So they don't surrender their ST surrender, the safety of their schools and their streets and their neighborhood, so they can live peacefully. They ve got to help and be involved. True, so they re in Athens actually what I'm talking about with regard to empowerment, I'm not talking you go to a class, you get a bad, you get a degree. You know you get deputized, I'm really talking about taking risks, instability. In recognising that the personal toll, maybe inconvenience in a gang setting. It can be a lot more than inconvenience, but

But surely, if you start taking those little steps, the acts of one and then the act of another eventually, what happens is theirs push back because gangs, in particular Workin the currency of fear, that's more important than dollars. Big empowered themselves. Because of the fear that perpetuated and when people stand up and say I'm going to participate, I'm going to talk. That is a real impediment because you're breaking the power cycle, the opposite side. That is also true. When people do step forward and participate, their empowering themselves to take back their neighbourhood, to say, I'm not afraid of you. Gangs are bullies he had the dynamic. Isn't all that different there well armed there well financed there well organised, but these

is our organizations that can brick by brick be dismantled by the people that they victimize. If people will be given the environment and the tools to do that, that was what witness protection was all about. It was about sex in just somebody you're in the wrong place at the wrong time and you're being victimized and work. And do something about that. We're gonna help you move, can you imagine anything about the inconveniences of having to move? I none of US volume airily move. Usually we do at once or twice in her lifetime and its, large scale pain when we're doing it right or forced into that environment, because you are the wrong place at the wrong time and they're trying to do the right thing. So, for us at least witness protection was the least we could do, but part of that wasn't just moving them to another place

it was supporting them. It was putting them in an environment where they could succeed in virtually every case where witness protection was unsuccessful. It was because the person that we had moved went back to the old neighborhood, and you can understand that you can empathize with it. But you have a big sigh, because that was a sure fire roads disaster. So over the years, the programme has gotten better about relocating people into environments where they can be more successful and what you find as they become empowered by the fact that they broke away from something that they were afraid of an that's an enormous step. Before we get back to the story we're talking about today, I want to share something with you you're about to enjoy, the trailer of what's coming up on Doktor Phil for the rest of the month of may have made it

vision that we ve all reached saturation levels, what I call category fatigue we have been looking and listening and thinking about corona virus, encoded. Nineteen, twenty four seven for about six weeks now- and I am of the strong belief that we need a break. Let's get back to some of the content and that we really fine, interesting, entertaining educational, reliable, informative and instructive and right. Before we got shut down for the pandemic, we had just taped a series of shows that we had compile to err in May that's a time that we say some of our favorite best shows for because at an important time for advertisers, so made the decision for the remainder of this month. We're gonna do a look back and show all new original shows that were shot before the pandemic, their back on stage

back in studio, exciting full of energy and really really good, shows here's a peek at what you're gonna see for the rest of the month of may all this may doktor fearless bath with all new shows recorded before they stay at home order. I waited an actor model: Hollywood bodied of all a mysterious illness. If I dont forced feed myself, my body will go into an attack. She feels atomic hunger feels as if she's being electrocute all new drama. You better put me on ahead of her for a long time. You have been doing nothing but criminal activities and I gotta packer off somewhere for ninety days, so you could take a break. They'll know all news stories. Seventy four year old Norma says she's in love with three different view. She never even met in person. She says they are stuck in my country. The grand total that you have said to Jeff is two hundred and twenty,

three thousand seven hundred and ten dollars and fifty share. I was telling me how can perform indulgently by an airplane Eduardo Doktor feel they all knew all this may. Do you guys know my wife, Robin Hood, has Robin Regrow revelation, which is a great skin care products, and let me tell you, I used to think all of this

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About becoming vigilantes, taking onto your own hands, arming yourselves having a shoot out with somebody that's coming in and trying to bully you that's where you pick up the phone. You call the police you tell him ahead of time- you cooperate with them, so they can be there when the next thing is going to happen, because that's the kind of that you guys need and that's what I want but be aware of. Is it scare we sometimes, of course it is, but it's the difference between dealing with that view. On a short term basis or living under intimidation for the entire rest of your life by somebody running bully roughshod over you, which is a completely different sexual should it again. I have to be careful and make sure always say. I'm not asking me will it be vigilant, ease and take the law into their own hands? Here we look. What happened in Georgia recently with a young man. It was gunned down industry,

I'm not asking Yalta position on something you weren't. They you dont, know all the facts on, but there we citizens shot gun a young man in the streets at one p m in the afternoon, and now three citizens have been charged with murder. We're not asking people to That is not what we are asking people to do right in that situation. If they felt like something was going on Kennedy was picked up. The phone call the police right well, there's that, and there is also the notion that we need to get away from this idea that people who providing information or niches in the bats, a pejorative. Those people are heroes. That were my kid. They got kill I'm going to applaud anybody who walks in the door and provides information, because there were people who were there. That saw what was going on and as far as the victim surviving family First thing I want is for somebody to come up and tell me what happened and yet again can count on that fear to keep

o o er, the information that people don't want to come forward, and that's that's where people can be empowered by just making fun of by just talking to police by just providing information. There there's a lot that and be done. That doesn't require the even leave your house, but it can't sit by air and let benign neglect take over does whether its gang members or public corruption, the same outcome is gonna. Happened and that's it. You were empowering the bad guys when you don't stand up and say I can do something to make this stop, I mean not be the entire solution. But I'm gonna move at one step forward and not by the EU that are best the beginning. We see something say something and what they think about is also community policing is the officers that are on the streets getting out to the commission

they just like driving down the street ass? Getting out in talking a gang members started to build a relationship with them so that they also trust him. This is well most game. I was the one addressed a place. They see him, they might take off running it I'll go into the house, whatever the case will be, but we have to build a report yet to know them and gather information gets along in all is what they're doing on the streets and were not very someone will start Can't you, because I do believe after fell. Not all of us want to became members, but because the society, the neighborhood they live, it's always survival, they dont do it. Then there to look down upon games have started to evolve as well in Genk and privatized. It is well me always knows. You're looking at games is doing our politics had robberies and screen, robberies and things like that, but they, above all due to human trafficking, is now hold different way for them to make money.

And ignore, can and intrigue these females and males as a commodity and so games, or so the wall near Bobby all the time, and so you have to get out there and so the first that the people on the streets, the officers in the uniform, really make a big difference for building those bonds relationships. And then he said he see Sunnyside seven, you can call be anonymous and it gives them law enforcement, not rigidity and their investigate genes and get out of the community, whether an undercover fashion we could use, can business all types of technology we can use. Nowadays they help break break this cycle, break these gangs, George. You have actually been your cover in organised crime situations is, scary as it sounds? It is being under cover You have to almost all this other personality, who you are. Of course you have to have what we call back. Stapi differ name where do you live, have to have a story because there

Ask you those questions. Remember I was workin, undercover narcotics and a street apart. Oh my enjoy restaurant, we're, gonna, re, biased, appeal of cocaine and they actually address down first us down, and unfortunately they missed a wire them, and I was the scariest probably time on my laptop to fill in the old days, wires. Were that kind of the old hardest that you put all your shoulders and an early dear you, your side, jacket and they literally walking and patchy down and they literally missed the wire that day their best. The case resulted in good investigate this restaurant that was selling cocaine out the back door, but Doktor Everyone must scariest danger by pressure goes out to charge, you don't sleep well and it does take it all. Body tickets on your mind, but something that law enforcement has to do to be able to take back, take our way back from, but back

does you say these wires were not tiny. I mean how do you do that? How do you get square in your mind? I'm going to put something to size twice as big twice as thick as a cell phone, I'm going to strap it on my body and walk in knowing they're going to pat me down. What are you? How do you do that now you back, then you did think about it, all you know who's we're going to do an investigation to take down these bad criminals were really taken. The torrent society by peddling drugs out the back door on the streets and back to you to think about it. You didn't know that was the best technology we had at the time, and so you went into you did your best and hopefully they didn't patch you down, but that was the first time I have ever been patted down and all my other case do. I work.

Robert. I never knew I had a wire could have been out in the street in our luck and patchy damage. People see the movies right within the heavy to take your shirt off far undress, or they can see your wherein the wire neglect and doktor filled just what she did. I came up the John Eames Territory and we all did it and we did it because we love the job. We love Tom people out. You never got with a wire I never did. Andrew fail was very fortunate. My career, I was narrow, collar the wire, so you just have a crooked. What can we say? Everybody believed you, you look crooked, that's all I could say why look different out. Duggar Phil I looked back there I long here I had a beer. I changed my parents all the time, I'm a little more clear, cut nowadays, right. Ok, I got you hear world things that I wanted to talk about in I've. Seen the painted this causes

because he Robin and I are both for better or worse, certainly, recognisable. Am we get caught up in these fraud situations with click bait on the internet. Where p it will steal our identities and they will come up with these phony product, an associate are names whether men tell people they're getting these products for free, but you have to give us your credit, number but they're really for free and then, if you want them, then we'll start building your credit card and then there's no way that people can ever cancel and they pray on elderly people offered on fixed income to don't have the money to.

Pay and they start hitting their credit cards for eighty hundred and eighty dollars a month. They can't, find a way to get it stopped at setter. We get these heartbreaking letters from people that some of them actually thank its us and we actually done television shows where we say people please. This is not us. There was one the other day they had doktor OZ and I were supposedly selling some new miracle thing. I've sent out hundreds of these industries, letters with actually filed, suits to shut some of them down their defrauding these people, so if their street crime and then there's this white collar type fraud, crime and this

adds up to hundreds of millions of dollars a year, defrauding the public criminally defrauding the public out. A big dollars is big. Criminal enterprise. Just talk about it at home. You guys whittling you're, talking about something that really makes people really feel unsafe and I go back to being a part of what Try to do in law. Enforcement is let it is, give people some sense of safety. I very often go out and do training is and lectures and seminars, and I usually start off by asking everybody how many people have been the victim of identity theft of some sort, even the victim of fraud. Almost everybody in the room raised their hand, how many reported to law enforcement, maybe five or ten, how many of those is went to court. If there's one it's the anomaly, so what you're talking

that is something that I think undermines people's sense of safety and their sense of faith in the system to protect him, because you have means- and you have people who can help you with this- the victims dont have any recourse other than their credit card companies. And the people who are perpetuating this just don't care a whit about either one of you these frauds go on and on and on interesting to me because I often say we should really stop looking at fraud in terms of the dollar values, because that's really like captain bullets at a murder scene. What fraud really does is it undermines people's science of safety, their sense of possession their sense of security.

And it's really hard to do battle with the people that committed are motivated by money and they don't give a whit who they hurt in the process. But I have seen people's lives literally destroyed because they ve been the victims of identity theft or the victims of some other form of fraud? It really wrong. In my mind, to sort of make this antiseptic by talking about the dollar's frauds. Frankly, just corrosive it's a huge danger and don't think for a moment. The gangsters aren't out their committing fraud, causing much rather sit on their couch with an Ipad and commit fraud and go out. Jack somebody for a hundred bucks, a gas station. The risks are a lot lower and Words are a lot higher. What are the biggest frauds that are being perpetrated on society? At this point I mean it, This is really changed with the advent of the internet right I mean, since we ve gotten the worldwide

which I called a wild wild web. That's made it much more prolific than it was before. Clearly because excesses is so much greater. What are the biggest things that You guys are seeing now that you're having to fight the most passionately again in a better position to talk about what California is facing, because the Department of Insurance addressed so many different types of fraud- s army, I too feel well worth seeing, as you know, on recent show with you regarding the cuban nineteen scans at her out there in our answer, bugle emails every day and that their this law or the elderly people to send you home alone. They click on that email just to be able to

read it and all was that they have opened up their computer to these crops to be able to install some type of malware, so they go ahead and download other personal information and the sad thing is these people are worth their entire life, built up their little nest, ache to help them survive to retirement ilidza happening it. Is these people take everything from they destroy them? to the point where these people sometimes have to give up their house have to give up their personal belongings and now they're out on the street war. If they don't have a family member to go, live with wherever they go, and so you know we look at robberies. Your strong arm robberies, robbery of banks and things like that, and guess not people who I do the markets. If you do a bank robber, rich you're, gonna, fell prison for a long time and is Jennifer. So what wait just to use the internet to go and click on it. I'll get somebody click down certain in a website and also

they have all you. Ve formation steal all your money and you have nothing left, and we see this a lot with the elderly. We can investigate those in the Department of Insurance now where people get them aside for life insurance policy. Other. Take that afflict there thus the older money and we ve had people up to lose up to a million dollars of money that they have saved their entire career and now have nothing and nowhere to go ok or way way way way way way way. What you're talking about somebody clicking on an email and in the end they wind up losing a million dollars share their there's. An elder abuse came not many rose from the days of his heads, our elder abuse, division and one of the things doktor filled it. I think we have to look at. Is many of our elderly are part of the great generation right. These are people who trust other people. They work on the honor system,

so if they get a notice that says Doktor Phyllis is selling some product. They believe them because their generation believes in the truth of how people communicate and its particularly insidious, because these are people that have worked tirelessly. They survive world wars, they survived all kinds, of changes- and here they are in their later years in life, and they are among our most vulnerable. Why? Because their social value is that you trust people that people don't lie. And you get sent a letter. That really is the truth that when somebody said something on the internet that persons not gonna wide they're telling me the truth that the part that gets exploited that just breaks my heart and fires MIA

And our generation believes, if you put it in writing, is on the internet. They tend to believe who would do that that that's the truth now explained Let's get the weeds on this little bit so email comes in, or an email and its forms, but you don't know- and it says, there's all the preview on the email that gives you just enough to a little bit about what it's about, and it might something like urgent must respond or whatever and it baby Linda clicking on it in and George you're saying that when they click on that and it opens up and there's malware that now lets them into their com Peter explained what you mean by that, so he went

those emails and new, and I talk about before Doktor feel government agencies are simply not going to send you. An email asking for information bank institutions are, could ask for your personal information, That's probably never wanting a low priority get an email. No company nature deal with is going to ask for any personal information on that that's why you're allowed to go into the internet. Put your own passwords, a thing like that would happen Will they stand these emails as we were talking about the elderly to sit there and they see urgent, we're, my gonna have to click on this. They click on it. What they really need to do is hope, above all, that email came from, and if you hover above that email on your computer, it will actually show you with a true website is coming from a lot of times it could be from a foreign country and what kind of show that. So. As I said when you see

I do not think on that, because the what'll happen is then there can ask for some other identities other. If I didn't find information could ass, your bank account grass for your product. Part and again is is Jennifer said. We grew up society evil about my parents. I hope he shook someone's hand and made a deal. You stick to the ideal in our air. We trust people. Nowadays they are taking advantage of the most vulnerable people of drop process country in our community. Every and I told he was over when you get that email just delete it, a company will not reach out you with its healthcare professionals off the IRS at me, I anybody I really want you, doctor, filler, going to come and knock on your door. You and I've joked about that, but they're going to come back on your door if they want an interview or talk to you. So when you see when you get the email, you'll see what who had come from. So if you take the little mouse and put on your computer and just put her on that email or click on that email,

I'll show you the truly emails, for example, you could send me an email is doctor feel somewhat take my little marijuana and I click on the doktor filled. All the third mistake, Doktor Feel for Nigeria Doktor Fuel from Russia. It I'm gonna go while doktor fuels on Russia, Nigeria, easier LOS Angeles and so that right away with tell me this is not the real dot fulfil, and why would I feel be sending me so when you, when you say that you know ok, it's time to bail, so you delete that in your out in. But if you open it, then now there, into your computer is what you're saying yes, it gives an opportunity right to computer and install we caught a Trojan virus, malware some sort, and there is new ones coming all the time. What's that installer that they can, Take your computer and their backs is terrifying. Other ass, we were not. What

it's a lot in institutions is once that's been done, doktor filth! Now they want to ransom. Now, you're gonna have to pay Asturias, read some t even get sure your computer technology back to your company to your house. You fragile, the Jennifer was just saying so often people particularly in my generation about got a ten year old, granddaughter that can zip around the internet. Like the computer, like you wouldn't believe- and I often said, young people have the knowledge, but not the wisdom, to be on the internet. We have the wisdom, but not the knowledge we don't know how to navigate it, but maybe have the sense to know better. They have the knowledge, but not the sense, and that's hopefully, those two can combine at some point, but people in

a generation just don't know because is Jennifer, says, there's that trust built in people. Just don't do that. So that's a big fraud element, that's out there and shot me georgian I've. If anybody missed it, when we were chatting recently. In a brief conversation, their people, going up on you received from ports selling covered nineteen insurance phony and while there somebody on the front porch pitching covered nineteen, sure it's there. Somebody at the back door breaking into the damn house. That's a double scheme,

the house has slimy is that citizens throughout Africa or selling you our task, is not good to sell it. Sell need selling his arm in our drug at their Spain is gonna Sancho Benighted Discount, Bula shop. Your house, I told you doctor, killed, do not open your door. There they're just scam you in taking, as you said, there's some at the front door at all or personal, say, Doctor Phyllis, although it can, I use your restroom two people walk in one talking to one get certain Norway, the other persons in your bedroom, steal all your jewelry, your money. Whatever else they said that we can Do that anymore? You just can't let people in your hacks, but that's the last thing in the world. You wanna do certainly in this day and time, but but let me change the subject. A little bit. You ass mentioned human trafficking. The other so much more to this than I'm gonna break this conversation in two too, because I don't wanna hurry this very important conversation as it happens, with bringing

Billina and putting them into slave labour so if how's is threatening to murder their families if they don't comply and what we as citizens can do to watch for this report this and help get these victims out of this terrible, terrible circumstance in situations. We have to be proactive to do this and so proud that we have had an opportunity to learn so much from Jennifer, lids, Snyder and George Mueller about all of this, but there's a whole, another chapter to all of this human trafficking and rehab drug and alcohol rehab at a huge fraud scheme, going on with sober living. And this is such a big chapter of this human trafficking that it needs to be a whole stand alone. Episode of fill in them.

So I'm gonna break this conversation right now and save that for next week. So breaking right now and just giving you a big teased that you're I'm going to believe what's happening. Some of our most vulnerable loved ones when their at rock bottom reaching out for help. Now you know How passionate I am about the battle against addiction and we're in the middle of the opium, Lloyd Epidemic, a huge opium. Epidemic and I am so concerned that, We are emerging from quarantine as we are turning this world back on although these opiate attics all of these other drug addicts, they didn't just go on hold. While we were in quarantine, they had a problem, when it started in the problem has not gotten better during quarantine, which means as

emerge, there's gonna be a huge pent up appetite in need, for services when we come out- and I am very concerned about the scales, the frauds that are awaiting those in their most desperate time. When they are at rock bottom needing help, and I want to alert everyone to not fall victim to this. So

reserving this conversation to stand on its own, and that is on the next fill in the blanks.

Beauty, sleep is real alertness for my wife, Robin she's. The creator of Robin Mcgraw revelation in some of robins. Most effective products are designed for night time use only that's why you're going to love your beauty, sleep even more, with Robins Retinal night serum called Welcome back youth, retinal bushes fresh new skin cells, up to the surface and vitamin c right, and you up get your welcome back used for your beautiful best at Robin Mcgraw revelation dot com,