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with my good friend, attorney Ben Crump, now here referred to as black america's attorney general through dead, fast dedication to justice and service began as a state. Wished himself as one of the nation's foremost lawyers and advocates for social justice. Legal acumen has ensured that most of the people there marginalized in american society truly protected by their nations contract with his constituency. Now he is bliss did amongst the most influential people of twenty twenty one by time, one hundred nobody magazines power, one hundred most influential african americans, the nest no trial lawyers top one hundred lawyers say that again, the top one hundred trial lawyers in america and twenty fourteen indian p, a news maker of the year.

Ben's tireless advocacy has led to legislation preventing excessive force and eloping, implicit bias, training and policies. Now that is a hell, an accomplishment we're gonna talk about how all of that has come to pass so welcome to bankrupt band thanks for coming to do this, I thank you for having made that to feel what we ve been working together along time. A man is harder ten years since trade by Martin is that somethin? Listen, people always see you. in the middle of firestorm, because when people are at the darkest our of their life. They call been crump. No, cause you? Let you know how? Well things are real,

They call you at the darkest hour there life. When something has happened. Some one has been demise they ve been hurt. They ve been in a run in with ie Police and it's gone really bad. There overwhelmed by the system and they call you people always see you in the middle of the our storm, and I want to talk about some of that, but I want people to take a few minutes to get to know been how'd you get in the law. You know don t fear when I was now you're so run up in Number two north carolina, lower small rule, southern town raised by my single mother who work to jobs, in the morning she were wash hotel. Drink clay wrongs and there she will come home and put some food on it. Wendy. I got a second shift. The converse shoe factory and

work. Second, sheer well and data good thing in her power, the key food on the table, a roof over my hair hope, an hour and everything I am everything I am to be here because of mamma their her sacrifices boys. And so when I was in the night gray they have progress is a boy education with school, desegregation and remember the supreme court, and it was well or deliberate spade where how deliver Speed of southern kolocha did not have to nineteen. Seventy eight nineteen, fifty four as though they then agree the schools and they took us little black children from south somerton literally across the tracks. To the north side of town which will allow community that had the nor schools the news technology, new facility right, no books, everything anna,

I just remember one day, but the fear and a school bus coming back across the tracks and when we get to sab limited observed did did lap a data buildings. I, like our little element cool fallen apart. You saw the broken down cars on the road. You saw. The you know, houses there had, boards on the windows. There were vacant, and I just kept thinking to myself. I wonder why p on a certain side, tat seemed to have it so good and pay I was out of town, seem to have it so hard. Mother told me the reason we gotta go to the new school with the new books. New facilities was because A man named good marcia and brown

of the border education, and from that moment, The decision when I grow up, I want to be like a turn it there, good marcia and be able to fight for people. My community and people will look like me to have an equal opportunity at the american promises, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and from tat day to this work. about the same objective, well, it comes out. You feel it in everything. You say everything you do and the test in working with. For over a decade that and you deal with Ben cramp. What you see is what you get. I work with the one lawyers that they get there vision, persona and they, put on a show, then what they're off camera, the passion, not there. They don't have that empathy for their clients.

That one person I can say that absolutely is not true of you- are the authentic real deal in every time. I've dealt with you with your clients. They, know it. I know it anybody that deals with you know that you genuinely care about the people that you deal with you. No doubt of that thing. We been blessed and a lot of us been bless forgot to give us a purpose for life when you know he gave me the education, our school degrees. Ah, this legal team. I have worked with this and Shame on us! If we don't try to use the blessings to help others, and so I know, sometimes, even though everyone he's not gonna love you. You use then that go in air, but you say hopeful they will at least respect me for transfer

follow my column in life and live up to what believe it to be right, and I'm not saying I know everything but I'm sam I wanted do the things I believe him. I had a right to do so what I hope comes across and his friend that really is been ten man. I can't believe, as we did the tray by my show, so much has happened, but still the same, we're fire, but all of us our children to her. a better world and I'm I will try and abandoned thing: I'm not! I'm a country lawyer Hannah by employers, marginalized people, you open your practice and a court you had to go through college in law school all that is the biggest obstacle you, ve had to overcome. Think in getting where you are today. You know what I think about

the challenges, think is not so much what I had become per se but how america had to fight Well, they acknowledge that there were implicit biases, if not our right, racism and discrimination, you know when we were younger, we will go into what rooms and we will fight for our clients and almost it put in general ourselves because the system. Everybody says that in a black People really matter. We work is forget counter relevant certainly thought we were inferior, and so the whole time I'm going up to the judge and jury and I'm sure origin dancer Y know you can receive the declaration of independence, but what I want to know is, if you believe in what declaration of independence, says, though you

believe it when you say we hope these troops to be so in february that all men are created equally, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights that wisdom are life liberty, pursuit of happiness where, if you do, that applies to black people to brown p, to native americans, you gotta except we are equal and if you don't exist, that then this their black boy who wish by the police. We ve lost this trial before would be gear, and so you, They have their real conversation with the I just want some don't like that. there. I don't know how to tone it down general, because my class his life and we're try to make sure that somebody ignored his life mad, it you're bored iron, a jury and you ve got a white. Finland over there

You got a wide judge for sure, and you got a white defendant and your face in a jury and you're having to find those. people that have their mind, made up to simply because the victim. Here was black and your black. When you're talking to them on board? I do they out themselves. Do they hide they try to lay behind the log, so they can control the situation after and how does it feel to stand in front of them knowing that you ve got some enemies up there. Because of the color you're scared, that's a great question not to feel and you, you literally, have to get yourself mentally prepared to do that, because Most of the time you gonna be facing the union mostly of that programme.

Finally, our white juries- and you have the almost by ah ah I miss you battle before. You start a fire the case now that you're dead for what are our main problem is probably the best example in the world: Because of the stay out, all young black mare, they said if I could just be a yankee, a walk at home with a bad. As good as uncategorized? He he can be a yankee talking on the telephone artists school frere, you know he had to be. Somebody do us up ferris. You know you know these black here is how they are so you have the purse convinced demo The better of that our your dream, I, like your children and we about children. Just like you love your children, so doing vardar is, that tug of war going on in

a lot of them. Lay in you, oh behind the door, try not to show their true identity, all their true beliefs, and so we all know. That course, in this, taken only from somebody who's been a court ruling this as you? U, helper we call em wreck, kill us do happen, killed rats, in that you're, so you can just have a fair trial asked for definite special. We just want you to It was the same consideration that you, give our opponent- and so we to that, and that is something we ve got. Really good at that's. Why I was just a declaration of independence question and I go down through each witness and the judge the other side would object and I'll say, were journey. We gotta ask this court done before we can move on because of that we can have a fair trial and even the judges sometimes get upset at us. They leave,

relax. Let us do it better. They understand to the goal, is to get up bear a jury, are. We won't have a good trial supper sown is brought to you by the all new honda CR we hire it onto knows. The discovering a ways is only comes after braving the desert. That's why they all knew cr viii, hybrid, is built to conquer mountains, taken a view and go everywhere and between its the compact ass. You ve, as determined as you are rise to the challenge with the all new cr vibrate. Learn more at sea are the eyebrows dot, honda, dot com. This episode is brought to you by linked in

TIM believes be to be marketing, can be brilliant, bold and innovative, and all it takes is their platform, which was purpose built to make be to be mean more for your business and with the targeting tools on linkedin, you can reach your precise audience right down to their job title company, name, location and more rethink your be to be marketing linked and adds and get a hundred dollar credit on your next campaign. Just gotta linked and outcome, slash advertise, that's linked and outcome, slash advertise terms and conditions apply. people forget sometimes that we don't pick juries where d selecting jurors, and so you trying to get those out there that you know our waiting to get even worse, adding to run their agenda and if you don't get him out You done before you start you, absolutely right and not a fool. I would tell you: are you go on the consumer, no shells, because I'd do stan aloud

I jury pools, are not just go. Come from. You no motive. Ojo communities lot, I'm gonna come from cooks over the community's. So we got it not a frame the narrative, and this is what I think I've been able to do so for the last ten twenty years is start tran framed a narrative tat. We not presumed guilty you gotta at least give us some presumption of innocence. What were gone. The network. There was a certain common data and I we'll call his name, but he was to me, and he was one of the top read it guys air get on we just buddy buddy when we we got air and when we go ere he will say there ever police you'll get over there. He was now. I just don't understand. Where are you? we're trying to say the opposite, offices a bare cause. Most

I'm a good emma was collect must have a second last night. Now you trying to say our black people buy cars. Will you agree most I'm a good. We can have more personal away into the other. Other help grandma morality. We got say that there are some good in the best of us asked some observed for good in the worst of us as some bad and the best of us. That's what people and We have to acknowledge that, and you know I digress for a second. I think that the fear when I bought tray both family, both them genes, family, are you now a minor, but auburn fan all these families in you would in with them, though, what they always appreciated about you You saw the humanity in them and thus our trying to do he's got america to see their humanity and people of color when I

the funny thing, special, that's the thing. People always talk about. somebody or throw the re scarred upon the table or their race, bakers or whatever, and you do it exactly the opposite. You trying to get it off the table. You're, not they're trying to play the race card. Yours then, allow more news even play and feel that all I want you I recognize is I have a mother here that has lost a child, the child, held at child dislike you held your child. She took part, child. She laughed she giggled with that child and she's. Now crying over that child. I know when we had travel. mother. Here we had a moderation mother, listening and saying you interact he would see the audience change and move because they realize.

but for the grace of god, go I it's a mother son, it's not anything different, it's just the same, and you have to do all the work to get there before you even start dealing with the facts. it is so interesting? I was here in LOS and yesterday we were having a pressing, for france, where this man this one. A guy can hardly the police were imprisoned, wanna ever has be pursuit case, and it was over a traffic. Stop the guy was beaten and they Delay, seventy miles per hour ass be chase to south central, the black community, los angeles in kyoto, two innocent, people we just driving through the and the one thing I can, santa myself, that the fear is this, isn't just about Harris family who the woman in the car on the his family, the man in the car. This is about

every citizen and los Angeles California, because but about a grace, a guy that could have been anybody who was as innocently driving down the role and we can make an appointment. Will you look at the statistics they seem to engage in. These has be pursued more in the black community, the other communities. So how Can we get them to see? Was the crux of the matter with you put them in the shoes of there. But what happens if you, were driving down the road that day, and you just happened to be an assertion that now that the police say we don't our policies because they are irrelevant day is significant. That's open! what you're trying to do is say: Jeff, These per second give consideration to the other side of the coin. the collateral risk here is the same as the collateral risk in beverly hills or bel air cap. You got away at the same instant, their loss of human life.

Human life is human life. you decided to really commit your life. To this end, start representing these people that had no way to navigate the terrain. It had the feel right when you step. Into it. It had to feel right, but you had to feel pressure too, because these people, when you show up and take their case you're it for them. We know with the church is often the center of the black community and they have that support, but in arms, are fighting back in the system, is being grown in the esa, to whom much is given much is expected, and I do feel that way. I tell you about the fear and this guy can deepen. This is why I probably need to talk to you more. My friend.

people often ask me: how do you deal with it? Then our love, the stress of the constant deaf in law, I'll send tragedy of it. All and I would say cover steady history, steadied thoroughgood module map. from a hero and he would about how you have the cot compartmentalize stuff, because you can't lou give weight to emotion when you there, with the families tran to be strong by everybody sense out of something that may, no sense at all that they're gonna, now the bury their chow who would be about people who are supposed to protect them in many cases, as so I'm and to be strong and am compartmentalizing, because as justice a should say, if you Not strong and trying to keep it together to get justice, then you can't prevent some of the future

injustices from happiness summit of future hashtags eggs, the next tray bars and george flowers, and so at Keaton two compartment compartmentalize, but in this netflix Imagine what a kiss the camera it got. The directive is a good thing of shore bonobo moments when I was by myself after we have met with the families and bout myself that the fear and I'd never notice. I found myself. I wish rub my head and rubber my temples and so forth, and I cannot conclude that must be the physical manifestation of the milton anguish from yet talkative. now, the family who is doing stuff the natural order. The natural order of things were there haven't a bit. Their children, no parent I've seen it a hundred times. You estonia but bowed and that you know ass possible, but you always believe yoke.

Children are gonna bear you are you're hot yeah. I always tell em everyone, the chief brought here and let us tell the story. thing always say to them. Is one thing you won't hear me say as I know how you feel if you haven't been there and buried a child, you can No, you can empathy his best, you can, but you can't know what they're going through, how much they blame themselves how much they feel like. If I'd just cities, they play the haughty of game. What if I had taken drive on to the store. What if I had picked up some things for him before? What? If I had done this, what if I didn't at what have we live somewhere? They play the what? If game It drives I'm crazy. You can get im you can get him a judgment. You can get him a settlement this episode is brought to you by linked. In

tim- believes, be to be marketing, can be brilliant, bold and innovative, and all it takes is their platform, which was purpose built to make be to be mean more for your business and with the targeting tools on linkedin. You can reach your precise audience right down to their job title company, name, location and more rethink your be to be marketing linked and adds and get a hundred dollar credit on your next campaign. Just gotta linked and outcome, slash advertise, that's linked and outcome, slash advertise terms and conditions apply chuckle. I've got a secret with robin mcgraw, with Eric beauty, by known as the forest to the stars and king of roses, designing opulent arrangements for allister's elite fashion houses in luminaries around the world. I robbed and Eric talk about some of his most over the top celebrity flower arrangements and his experience with grabbing on analyzed, beautiful opportunities that you don't want to miss this be sure to subscribe,

follow and listen to apple, podcast, spotify or how ever your listening now You can get them justice even just get him some measure. Accountability. Uk get that child back form and it hell and you get to feel good when you do, and I know they do, they feel like they ve some have pushed back and made somebody be accountable. Year was February. Twenty sixth of twelve. When Trayvon Martin was killed by george Zimmerman and he just seventeen years old. So it has been ten years, Since that happened, that case changed you? Why did it change you so much reason travelling change me as above. To said that I feel is, This is a very high appealed, swaller most black,

but america head even a wee wee, Hang I used to, we have become accustomed to the police, could kill, Our children, and be another then got away with it but with- Brave and end stay you ground law, is there any time dick and harry cookies, children, but is low. If they say oh fear, my life, the last thing you can go home sleepy your bed at night and you said mare, allow have that you can kill my child, whose and your word is the gospel get the girl sleep in your bed at night. There, I think, was worth May travel more. This global

phenomenon where people say it as a bridge too far america, uk, at some point you gotta, say our children get the right to get equal justice too, because we also the racial dynamics were different. And that was a young seventeen, your white care there, no way his killer. What a guy they go home asleep in his bed at night. two years later tamir rice? shot and killed in cleveland ohio and he was twelve areas old, twelve years old plan, The programme by himself in the a video, the police rode up on it, The one point five seconds road onawandah shot, Nicky noble when the jail I know about it you're right. I mean. Is this enough? Make you wanna hollow when you think about it.

Pretty hard to imagine second and half. The child is dead or playground was holding a toy gun, but These are difficult times when that is the deep. our response. What do you say to yourself about that? Were would it tells me, as we gotta go fight harder, because what I I believe in my heart an I wore believe in it, The day I die. We will win this war for life, the injustice. Far the enemy have equality will not win. This war is down a thing that keep going I believe that we are gonna have a better world all our children. do you think progress is being made? You know you think about the past year. You happy

Now that we are making progress, george floor, first time in Minneapolis that police? officers were convicted of sex degree murder in their history for killer a blight. it's not killing anybody and a pull it out. His parents. mark wylder- and I may he was lit jargon while black, and that was in the deep south of larger. You had a the the trial was levin, why? When black jure and they convicted the lynch mob, you have to know that we are making progress, but you know it's like everything is a journey oh your journey. Sometimes you gonna take a step forward and then you're gonna be ten times. Will you take a step back

you just always have keep your focus the prize. You you just gotta, keep trying to move forward, no matter what happens. What's the most important thing It needs to happen to really level playing field of was into the young I may not long ago, and he with somebody having said that when you get stop by the police at night, it's the most just five minutes of your life and his parents talk to him about it, and I remember, having too black guys on the show that had been in Confrontation with the police had a fast food restaurant and there Parents were upset and they had gotten into a fracas, and I said, let me tell you something

I'll tell you, young man, something when a cop confronts you on the street. You need to respect the badge and do exactly what you're told. because your job is to get home alive and if you had a problem with what they are doing said or did you need to pick your battles and your battlefield, and go file, a complaint and fire the work on it, but you don't that battle on the street at night on armed with somebody. This got a badge and a gun get home alive and pick that battle up tomorrow. By found complainer. Whatever don't pick that fight that night and the parents were this, like my god, thank you because they feel their prey and they want to stand up for themselves and that's fine, but not the that's, not a bad you're gonna win

I get home alive, stay with this tomorrow is that good advice that has greater I am a terrier, you I'm If your credit, I'm a quota, have affair, that's not the time to pick the bowed, and you don't pick them out of fear, we on the side of a dark street at night. Will you If you move a certain way, they should and here you and then the prim coordinate about who say they justify, because they were Beer in your life- and you now is the subject, fears of young black and brown people that you just graduated say: may What is it about? A black person that makes you shoot first and ask questions later and use the videos of young white, kids doin all manner of things to police and they always given the benefit of the doubt the bill of fare of consideration in the benefit of possibility as so I'd think about my lab

Chris on there was a police officer ten years before I became a civil rights attorney and we so often talk about. We police see things differently a lot, and he educates me because I I look at my. I is just so clear to me that this was wrong and they're a completely unjustified, but he will say where the police They don't know what situation are coming into and he so I understand it Sl Europe, vices beth, try even it should not be our children's responsibility. Our community members, ability says there: the profession is d This offers of professionals but try your bess de escalate, whatever the situation, because the goal is to leave to not be killed. And then have other people marching for you. Rehashed that you right. That's the go. First,

What an appearance to say to the black sons get home alive, and these young men were sad, but we didn't do it. I get it I understand, I don't want to be a right fighter. I want you to walk out of their not carried out. There go file a complaint How many millions of dollars did the new york police department pay last year settling claims for me squander, get paid, dont get dad. get home alive, and one of the things were to favour that point out of fear. One day that I keep talkin about ended Mercury is a. I wanna make it. I want raised value black life in america so much way becomes. Naturally, a sustainable for police to keep shoe, black and brown people in the back. You know, kill.

Less and justifiably I cannot understand for a life for me. Why why surfaces think is the most dangerous thing in the world when a blue Person is running away from now. I'm light I would you shoot him in the back and they run away from you, but if the cliche almost out of fear the here and now a black man being shot in the back. I was in fear of my life, but they running away from you. How does that make any sense? And then I I go back to doing the comparisons as I was it there. Even though blackmail make up only six percent of the population in america, you shoot them You know when you look at people the bet we like eighty five percent. Ninety percent, have a single shoot white men in the back, really on when they run away from you. So is implicit. I assume we gotta constantly the other animals, and that is just the police. I just think we're

one of the things I learned from you over the years. All of us have implicit biases. We just constantly got to keep working on them so that we don't act upon them. But you don't act bottom, whatever they are by making it. conscious decision not to an that's what you're doing when you're going through. Vor dire with a white jury. you're putting it on their right are where they will make a conscious decision to say I'm not gonna. Let this control me here is and pointed out to me and I am going to make a conscious decision to not let this be a fool after that. I look at this evidence through that. I look at this case through an if you put it at the front of their mind and you dont. Do it in and accusatory way you just do it in a limitless, to be honest with each other. Here then people make allowances, for they can make adjustments for it.

Therefore, we need to do and I think some times it's done, in such a way in Her face hostile way that yet backlash? They get resentment against it and that's the last thing that we What what we want is people to really say yeah. That's a good point. I need to consider that, which is what you are doing in further jury. Yeah You know I'm account. You born. I learnt allow time ago from my grandmother that you can get more. Bees will furnish them vinegar, so you go out and you talk to that gira, you don't accuser married, they you just try them. The them be rational. Look at this from rational view, and I think when you think about travel, to george flawed. In those ten years you continue to learn a: u evolve, you, your style, get better. You are more selective ban, this

and how you communicate things and so forth, because he added think that a fair man you're gonna, be a travel ban and you know that the cutter was please polarized, but didn't you come too flawed in you want. leave we may progress, because, so many young wiped out the margins, and I can't breathe until we get justice for george flaw as there were young black people s, it tells me there. our message is starting to get to do, but we gotta keep it up and we, keep it louder to have tat, have not stopped no there's no way that. a human life is worth a lesson and you hear people say well, look. He was no angel, there wasn't anything that he may have done. That was a capital events, we know

everyday Hampshire here, thank god that we ve got body camps and things like that where people can see What took place guy a game J, the digress to feel that I want bill hate the people on the other. They try to take action. Only just show, but at least want to say this body cameras have been a game: changer a game changer for decades black people will say the police brutalize a mayor. They are you they shouted suggested in body would believe and hope that it will be leave him. But you know we now have the video Was that you say hello, who you gotta, look at this video lisa they now is there. A mud was just jogger, he was jargon, while black he did the wrong to provoke this, and if it were now, video,

They never would have been brought to justice. Enable a video took us now much right, but you know if because when we will, you show here. You remember it as the video have been released, and then you were gracious enough to help us raised business love of fishermen ban, let's for jargon, while black in the video that erica has. Are we the people who made them byerly arrest is lynch mob. We'll see about a police on day. Why this? exactly what we saw in they say. We ok with your lives, There's someone, I know so many men and women in law enforcement. That were so appalled by what they saw, that it just turned her stomach. It made him furious to see that dismayed am furious to see it. because everybody paints them with that brush.

and that's not- who they are, is not the way they are, and that is the council strongly cause. Think about george floor. You know you saw our photos, offices, s air, hopefully one of them would have their humanity say. I might have taken the off his neck, everybody everybody I met. Ah street was there you kill em, you killed them. Everybody can see it seems like the professionals who were trying to understand the answer that tells me that is not just about training. They got to have empathy for their fellow human beings. There are some people that just shouldn't be in that job because less thinking that it by the time that it happened. That was may twenty. by the time that it happened among,

barbary, had happened. Brianna Taylor had happened, Tamir rice had happened, the brown and margaret version. It happened at that point, the laudable officer is gonna know you know what everybody stand around. Here is gotta camera everybody he's got. Audio everybody's hearing them say what they're saying, which means this foreseeable Not only is it wrong, it's foreseeable and all I gotta do is move a little bit and set This gentlemen, up and put him in the car we're out here, but to not there is something seriously wrong this problem. solving skills are bad. You, you can't even in your expert here that the fear, but you have to say what go to your mire wit ever it is telling you kill them. And

put your hands on your pocket and keep your knee on his net a man not two minutes? Not three minutes now for men is not five men that's six minutes Seven minutes not eight minutes open the minutes, and I wouldn t we do that, hopefully a listener audience who say alone We just used about ten seconds, This man was almost ten minutes all is nick. Is dinner will move and clearly Some point: seven minutes ago, sir is to be any kind of threat if there was ever a threat, its impact, simple to make any sense out of it's impossible to make any sense, and I will say if I give a lot of credit to the minneapolis police department, I saw something I had I was saying about twenty five years of practice in law.

I saw, the police officers commented at court roman minnesota and they testify against one of their fellow offices and it was kind of profound even though we shall bear so shocked by We were shocked because police dinner they never pass. the blue wow and testify each other, no matter how much they would always say to black people. now community, where when you see some. people do some bear say some tell somebody. You know they will say that, because they will always talk about. Oh, where young Are we not goes nature of work as though they are the whole bit campaigns? If he sees the doves, but does that I'm wrong a criminal I own I would always say you show us how to do it? Police and they never would into jaws floor, and it was

historical yeah. Oh, I agree what do you think about this? Defend the police movement that spun up out of this. You know, I think, that how you title: somethin can't kill it quicker there. In it. Bearing are you know that right so rightly the Malcolm X, sayer, a label and can kill you quicker than a bullet. Ah M, thought about, you know you got in and we'll talk about convicted fell as to how these labour they put all young people of color, but I think What they're saying what I want to believe their san is: we can't just put everything into policing and not put stuff enter after school care, not put stuff. Inter milton health awareness, a milton health,

crisis, intervention, officials and so forth, and so, that's what they should have been santa less the resources out to be community partners. Versus their lives, take out the money from the police budget. They caused it. doing a good for now. We need police Police have a vital role that they serve in our society is so Whenever never me say defined the police, what I say is how can we re imagine. Ah unity safety? How can we imagine public safety das. What we need to be down fine it as well of talk a lot of black. Business owners income? immunities and

they don't want less police, they want their businesses protected, they don't wanna, be robbed accosted, they want protection and they this don't want to be afraid of the people that are protecting them. So first off I think defined was the wrong word. Funding, never happened. They may have Can a million dollars from this department, but then they spend it in overtime and if it went down. The whole city budget went down and now they're talking about funding but the high point to me, is you. Ve got get back to doing two things. One is community relations. You put

officers back on the b where their walking the streets in meeting the people and knowing them and shaking their hands and understanding who this young man is and who that young man is at all? Then you really have community relations it's not just some. Stranger, rolling up venice, I'd car and shoots her body and one point five seconds: then the other is it's not about taking money away from the police. It's about putting more money. and to certain areas, because what you say is exactly right: if put money in to mental health. If you put money into the community. there are violence clusters in communities and it is very clustered you go into certain neighborhoods there might be a twenty eight square block neighbourhood vice whence clusters within even too

we're three blocks within that neighborhood that's where all the bad actors are. You can go in and focus on these micro clusters, you don't even have to go drop the hammer there you can go in and talk to those young man and offer them alternatives, give them some choices and some education and help there so much that can be done You ve gotta, have police for what's happening right now today if you have a home invasion today you want a cop to show up today, This is stuff that can be done. That can help six months from now on a year from now. We need to do both. We need to have police and we need a people working in neighborhoods, so we don't need so many police. Yet What you really want is a community partner and the police are classed as I think what you said about walk in the big bang.

Able to know the people who use were assigned to that that's huge. because I think a lot of it is ignored, in itself but you don't know, but if I had a new author new chris and I knew their son or their daughter and I upon a situation, I'm late, likely now to hear Gaza, but I got a shoot so bad because now I been that work. Chris and weave coach. The police athletic glee covered, to do those things in the community and we begin By that I mean get the know. Everybody in the house, schools in the middle school, all those young people, because during the summer, what out of school you come a coach, the basketball team. Are you gonna? Do you know literally football team in it makes a world of difference, because now you got peep who really know that young kid and they may strike? I'm not saying that the indo,

you have some connection to their that use see them as a person does worthy try to invest and versus a person who S. As a minister society will have walked to beat? the cops in Washington hides in in harlem in new york, city and bail out Great vendors out there we walk by one of m unless a after nelson jacks, This ran by here and stole two bottles of orange juice and they walk now half block near jackson, sit nearness, a hey, get your but up and take back down. There is not about put them in jails, not about arrest them, a meaning that the guy suffering, from some mental problems they get up and take back down there and leave her alone. It solved There is not about arresting put him in jail increase incarceration. They solve it right. There say dogma, may come back there. Ok, I'm sorry! I'm sorry! It's over air! That's what.

happens when you know everybody and you're walking to beat it, and I think that fear a solution can't always to pull my gun and shoot. I may that's what I struggle with. so many times. You see these there, Why is that? a day, no raw battles to care run. Where do you live may I wash. You is alone video like. Why do you have a shoe That is a lucia every time and, if you're a cop, Would you do that? You know this is on video, the abbess that's too bad I want more geared to political, but you think about the great restraint they show launch anyway. Six just great restraint, man back a blow, People ever get some of that kind of consideration. Yeah yeah, you would when you there I have to say this because I wouldn't be a big crop, provided that the fear can you

If that was black lives matter, o j were six now there will be a different situation, allow may they would have done so many people do you. its fear and ignorance of just not knowing the culture, not knowing the people, I think, is what you say. First and foremost, here then people plan on our fear the need common denominator amongst us. They wanna get not what brings us together, but wig a separate it and they play on a fearful what ever reasons it. They don't make sense to me why people will make themselves be manipulated by some spam. god whose just keeps there. Oh you can't let people equal cost that maize is gonna, be worse for you now, Why can't we try to say just at least I will say this. He said that they say when they were

got about integrating baseball. They say where we lit blacks and hispanics come Two major league baseball, brain on the quality of the game when the river then said the reality worse. We didn't know how good a baseball could be better. We lit everybody play the game. up and athletic shoes. We were really poor, and that was my currency. That's how fit in? It was athletics and all the teams that I played on were half black half white and that's how I got to know the different races. It took away all the mystery, and I just I think that such an important part of just interacting in getting to know it took away all the mystery. There was no fear, and it was two ways: absolutely took it away. From a very early age.

I want to go back down for you have me some before he said. Ah, what do you think is the thing we should do a possible solution, an arm The increase in that we were at a panel. People about time cover is. I was a team effort and always what a tear people is never eyes. We is not big rochester team of us and we were at a panel discussion and her of a young man say something profile. He said there was a book called upstream upstream And he said that the gist of the book as this year, black guy walking along the river. Has walker on his young black care in the rear was screaming and go on. the drowning and he jumped up

river, anything saved his life and his mare, I'm happy. I was there to save it. I'm black child's life, say it as soon as he I felt himself. He saw another black key, a second black key raymond out in the river, and he was hell of a help. When he was gone under drowning and he jumped in the river, then they back, he is life and there he said I was happy. I was there because. This kid would drown. Had I not been there as soon as he with patent himself on the back that fear. He said he heard a third young black hey in the rivers screamer asking for help. becoming thou railway. He jumped in the river and he say back here. He's there I want to know, is who keep these black cave in the river and he's a we can't wait to be

deal with the issue downstream. We gotta go upstream and prevent them from thought. So many of the black kids in the river s the key of provincia in these social areas where this police and mass incarceration, whatever we got to try to deal with the problems before they get down. Ring what a great way to say there what a great way to say it again country listens. it'll be so much more economical, so much more effective, a man and think of what hell, pool, is being wasted by not harvesting these young mine's better going astray when they could be contribute so much being doctors. Engineers mines that aren't being harvested because you're not getting opportunity air

again equal opportunity enough. All you want is an equal chance and I always keep saying that we are asking for as better Let us have an equal opportunity. The american dream dancer about is asking for in this country- are too much waste, so much talent too wasting your good example air, I may This test is never say I was posted. We want one most influential people in the world. I was supposed to be anna tat. Thou with job imprison idea is just today that kept you from doing it again. We're sitting on thurgood marshall is, does somebody else is zack, pray and grandma If you want to know more about been crown all you gotta do- is google his name and you ll find out, but go to netflix the Humanity is civil, see the ill civil and it's already been looked at by twenty million plus people.

you learn a lot about who been cramp is. I know him. I've known him for over a decade, he is a good man. I would trust him with my back a hundred out of a hundred times, and if you get to know him, you will too see him on my show every chance. I can get him here to talk about things that matter to people who care he is a. Social warrior? He is a civil rights lawyer, he's doing things that matter and he's doing it. in a rational and reasonable way. These helping people that, but for him they would be left to their own devices There are no! You gotta catch a red. I oughta here. Thank you for coming

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