This was the first president that took social media by storm, even though you were all things communication, I'm guessing you didn't that a lot of those streets, but none pillow, everybody, it's dark fulfil, which means your fill in the blanks- and I m very excited today talk to somebody that have not met before, but it really proud to me. My guest today is I'm the scenes political inside it? I'm gonna ask him about that wise always been behind the scenes, because these certainly has enough knowledge and savvy to flip to the other side, and we wanted to his reach an influx

France has been rarely matched anywhere else in politics. He has been helping politicians get elected to the most powerful positions in the country for decades, manifesting huge, upsets, overseeing landslides, managing entire see changes in the american electorate. This gentleman is a master strategist which will put some meat on that boat. When we talk he's a consultant, pollster communications, expertise of best selling author isa, media personality, unease host of an influential cable news programme he's also a charitable organizer who has helped thousands of disabled bats, which really warms my heart. Now you agree with him or not. He has been involved in some of the most important events in recent political. His

in our politics. Have sides: insides have controversial issues. You're gonna have an opinion here about some of the things that this gentleman says. The gentlemen I'm talking about is sharm spice her now Sean sparser is no stranger to controversy, criticism and sometimes just outright attacks on his character and at one point he took the job is why house press secretary and when he did that, despite being behind the scenes guy, he came into the job with. I think. Arguably, we probably find out about this- may have been the individual to move into that job with the highest recognition profiling by that took the job.

Those who didn't know him soon have an opinion. So today we're going to pull the curtain back and hear from sean what was really going on and how he came to know as much as he does about politics. So I could spend the whole hour talking about your background sean, but thank you for being here. It's an honor to be here so the kind of production and are looking for your conversation. What you ve been doing this for a long time you don't look old enough. They have all books. Is that you do? I don't know how that happened, but years have been kind to you, predictable. All the stress that you ve been under right now, you're, the house slicer in company which is on news backs it's at six p m weekdays. Congratulations on that is being received very well correct, yeah, it's it's out where I started to show doktor felt about two and a half years ago. You know we

we're a nascent channel, we're the fourth term The show on the network and- and I get the first time I got my ratings- ensure your very familiar with this. I looked out. The number of the cycle kate had said that I think, and an over the last two sisters type overlooked is the only missing a number of never. few more people turn in on my phone family watching and up and over the last two and a half years news axes really hit astride. The show is he destroyed. We are now the fourth largest cable news, networking and the holding of a news max just might selfless blogger is you know it's if he got cable director file for everyone wants you, but we also stream for free. So if your cable cutter and you want to watch spice from company every night at sex, you can literally is gonna news. Maxwell com, good, are you to channel whatever and just for free watch it? So it's kind of

we'll being on that that does not ability is well were people who, of course, tat will come up all the time and to love watching. Shall I ever cable we'll tell people what they're gonna find when they too need? What's that What they're gonna hear. So it's interesting used the word town. I think we have probably most informative will show. I'm came on and I don't mean to brag about, but I'm the only percinet hostess that was in the game right. It's the way I look at it is it's like when you are. China tell of a sporting event and in one of the people doing color commentary is a former ass In their telling you were there what was going on the game? What's like through your what they're giving their experts? When I look at politics, I've been a wider process, carried twenty.

Here's the military six years at the currency and the countless numbers a campaign. So, instead of speculating what's going on, I can tell people tell viewers hate at this point the campaign this was happening. This is what would this you know. This all number would signal whenever we give people the unique inside you're going back to the way you raised the question we sort of look at his wife and companies opportune, have civil discussions. We ve never yielded a guest. We are very honest about where we cannot stop it. I've had some of the biggest liberals on our shell love coming back because We don't we want to engage in a really insightful discussion and I think, there's plenty of places you can go if you want to see a food fight on television ah, but what I want is the order walk away, saying I learn more about politics or how government works

Then anywhere else, and I heard a really good, constructive arguments that the tone of our show is civil, its respectful and its informative. You would agree that you're right not lived on the political spectrum proudly, I'm a very proud, social and fiscal conservative and that's what I mean a very open about that. I don't think anyone who has read the first two or three lines my by I think we'd get batch but are very proud of it. Not that's what I mean: I am open about the biased they come from it, but I am also. I want to know why people from the other side or from a different opinion believe what they do. So that's. Why will have on gas? The completely diametrically opposed to maybe a position or policy, because I wanted to stress that out and say: ok, how do you defend miserable

you? Why am I wrong when I say acts, and so I think but being open about where I come from, is I think house, the shell, because people know what they're mine we'll help me with this, surely be workers, I'm looking at this from a psychological perspective, It's really frustrated me, particularly in the last the thai minded out, but I'll say the last five or two. Years and is getting worse by the minute. Probably since I walked the door today, but we don't seem to have the attitude that you're describing where rights willing to listen to the left, the less willing to listen to the right right now. I saw a study recently that one third of college students felt like it was ok in fact the thing to do to you all down speakers that you disagree with, as opposed to listening to them having an intelligent debate learning why they think that

they do then that didn't used to be the case on university campuses. We went to have an exchange of ideas. Now it is to stamp out those ideas listen to those ideas- and you say the town to say whether you agree with sean or not. He is absolutely accurate that that is the tone of his show. He does not. Yet he does listen. He give. them the opportunity to say their side of the argument, and he may disagree with it violently, but respectfully. What do you think we ve lost that I'll get you up and its funding even college campuses. I've spoken at probably fifteen twenty college campuses last year and a half mile I thy schaeffer have a covert, probably not two years, three years on everything from the earth events. They need a berkeley. I think it's become

Who is the new it's what it's? What the left is teaching folks to do? In particular- and I know there are some folks I dug up- you know that the onus is back on the right from sometimes but it's it's. The college campuses the word starting social media is a huge influence on ass people feel like they can do it scare away with things that they couldn't if they were talking to your face, and I think that college campuses I remember, I went to one of the schools and I was doing the pre brief with the the administrators but then I said, I think that you walk me through your policy about what happens. If someone makes an outburst has, unfortunately, thus become the norm, and this was the first time we let them say their thing, the second time

we ask them to respect the thing and then the third time, and as we would say, you're telling me to dig it three bites at this before. You know, because that that you you do anything in the guise of quality is about free speech. I spoke in south africa does not respect them in their people in the audience that are there to to engage. Ask a question to listen such it's. It's not about just that. One person in a five and repression rumours gets to dominate, but unfortunately, that's the culture that is being fostered, especially among folks, younger folks on college campuses and high school. That's something that their taught. It isn't ok behaviour and I think that the left in particular gives voice to that of teachers. Understand up into you, know it's it's when you look at the protest that are going on about public policy was gone and supreme court. It's not the right, that's that are putting up the phone.

For it is because the guys in the left arm happy didn't want binding. When, when tromp was elected, I can't believe the amount of security that was put up around places, the number of schools that were cancelled and told you all you need to take a day off and its there is, I think, a fostering of this behaviour. this attitude on the last that this is how you behave now, unfortunately, arm and it was away when I was in the press, briefing room that the rapporteur sought. It was ok to be disrespectful to each other yell over another person to disrespect a colleague to these long is it got them attention and we were warned that unsocial media we set a click, goes viral. A tweet goes viral. When somebody does an outrageous thing, it's not kiss, rude anymore, I'm in the way that my mother and father race makes that would it got me and to my room. Now we can give them a cable contract. If they do that, then you ve been the focus of that as well as people attack. You, then the things it

You said you said you're the one person on the air that's been up. Higher in the game. You were in the tramp white house and you saw what was going on in that white house. This is something that a lot of people speculate about, but they weren't Therefore, you were there in the early going. What was it like inside the trump white house? When you were there? What was the methodology? What was the thinking? What did you have to manage? Because you were the one it was communicating and though he was communicating twitter a lot, but you were at were communicating directly.

With the press. What was I want? You know it was intense sundays. Unbelievably chaotic end, it was transformational now it was interesting. I approached the job I think in a very traditional sense is, rather than on Washington, I've I've I've watched Dana preying on our feet, during all these folks go before me and I thought okay, I go out with a model as do well the problem Is I never really sakhalin? Initially, the trump wasn't. The truly made up of dublin want a crucial campaign, but I've gotta get your fall into the traditional ball, and so I built a team in an office in a structure that sort of assumed that we would ban on a traditional white ass. We did then, so there is a lot of it opting in saying. Ok, I do your point normally didn't have a present or principle that was leading on it.

Communication front. It would look at their press person in my alma you're doing this and thereby put something out on this draft me out something you're, the one who traditionally the press person to lead the communication effort in the trumpet ass. He led them and that took some adapting in some getting used to that. So it is in you noted to get back to the atmosphere was at times personal vitriolic, but it was an unbelievably intense. I mean I, I can't you know you started off. This thing is broken

It's about you! I think I lost ten years of my life in those six o clock. I could well imagine you had to jobs, actually communications, director and press secretary gregg Iraq. How do you do both of those things, because the communications rector's alot of forward planning grew attract? Yes, the communication tractors in person for thinking about tomorrow next week next month saying? Ok, how do we look at something with a whole government approach and I gotta get the agencies that apartments crap the message that we can execute depressing time: listen the day in their treatment staffs. They worked well in side by side, but you're right. I was sort of and there's a variety of reasons it would take. An entire part has to go into why you know. If I could have found somebody earlier, I would have. I did find a communications Drucker, probably the second or third month who struggle for a while. If it was not helpful to have two roles,

then it was one of the things that I look back on and say you know I ended in people and advise me against it, but again that were raised. as we did what we did at the time that made sense it just looking back on it. You go Having two roles at that level is never a good idea. You go We won't eat healthier than I've got just the thing for you. I've been drinking to china as my breakfast a few of my day, and it keeps me for four hours, so I feel and perform a best and ready to take on the day. So what is catch other? Well, it's been called the cleanest most nutrient dense meal imaginable. Now I describe it as all the best soup

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really took social media by storm and used it in a direct way and you being communications director and press secretary, I'm guessing even though you were got all things communication. I'm guessing you didn't that a lot of those streets man. I don't think there is a single instance that I looked at one or a couple. Tangerine said I might be doing acts or something, but now he ate tweet first and tell me later: did anybody Nine dance convener, who headed is social media team sometimes was intimately involved, but you know I was saddened,

twenty nine I am in five pm. You got the tweet. That said, you know I'm proud to support that that other than you know, after five before nine, you gotta so, and so is the total just pick up a closer eye on. Did you ever council him about the name, calling they're getting people's character because he did character, attacks, character assassination, which you I've studied? You all the way back to your college campuses days now you have never taken that approach. You ve! Never, given that advice in the campaign to anybody, you have objected to it. When people use that strategy

you, what did you say to him about that sort of thing when he went after people, call it and tat ugly, dumb moron, whatever you might say, Yannick? First, it's not how I re strike. This is, I think, come again. It is a sensitive area that my parents is dollar me in it. My christian faith idly by, while there were times when I would suggest to him years why? I don't think a particular strategy may be the smartest, but the end of the day, one of the things that people forget about problems every time, somebody from he called establishment or professional class told him. Something don't do this do this most of the time he did what he wanted and he had a record of say yeah. I was told not to do this. I did acts anyway and I you know I came

more success war I want or a defeated that person. So the problem to be blunt is the third night. It's one thing to give him adviser to say: hey. I think we can be more effective during this, where this is gonna. Take us off message, but trumped sort of looks at that: a lot of the function politics, and so did you guys you're? So smart I'd never be elected and I would have never done this and I would have never been successful here, you're so tightly. There's just I dont think for a lot of individuals in the political world they ve in his mind a strong track record of being right when it comes to telling him what to do and he takes out into consideration when he makes a decision Didn't grow up around meteor television. Didn't get involved in it till I was fifty years old, but I learn things once I got into it. We had a budget here for doktor feel where we by time on radio affair sort of promotional things, but I and really fast the difference between earned media and purchased me

I learned if we had a really big story resonated with the public we could get tens of millions of dollars of earned media that there's no way we could buy that we don't have the money, to buy that in it wasn't for sale like on them, and showed or allow the shells. Even if you had the money it seems to me that as much as he appeared, be a loose cannon. You have someone that was driving the news cycles that creating the media and the hundreds of millions of dollars. They could have never been purchased. Economic narrative in ten seconds immunity woke up and send a tweet, regardless of whether, as an attack on support for that became the story and he knew it. He knew early on how his actions is stephenses, tweets drove media and they still didn't it

I did the littlest things that he does reporters An folks online or captivated by so I think he her stance, how to utilise media. The linen quite frankly that I don't make any politician ever will in the future, because his work, to engage in a very personal level and awaited I've, never seen throughout my career and most the time as I said earlier- people like habits craft, something up and make sure that everybody's in agreement and one by the entire staff and all tested from its all got and I think when you, as I said earlier, you can do free with the styles and those in substance, but he hasn't track. Of showing when he doesn't is way, he ends up getting what he wants, whether or not that's what what everyone agrees is the greater good is up for debate. Sometimes you know to bang on how is going up some bought, I think that the broader point is that he understands how to utilise media in a way that I don't think I'd seen anybody harness or use the people. The critic

size in the most said, the monster the most, because if he would say something that was this outrage is in attacking someone their character getting personal going. Outside the lines than he certainly colored outside the lines. They were the ones that would throw gas. On the fire which made it work see how to understand their yeah. Any still does not. I mean it's not. I think his is background. In in media and in new york powers in your real estate and then obviously with embassy in such he understood what makes a good story to make something. Go viral and get attention in soap is used that in politics, in a way that, as I said, I'd I've never seen anybody do on that kind of level? Let me read, you quote: this was the

largest audience to ever witness and integration period, Sean's visor and are then who wrote that? Ah, I think one of our staff you dont, like I don't want that line in particular that now, as part of that, we call the top her up of the first briefing nor several people involved when you are the one gets up and says that in as one it says, things somewhat arms and rely on people give it to you I'm assuming you're, not out there counting heads a sheds. Somebody gives you this are you relying on fact checkers? Are you

seeing it as now. Can I please not I, I think that will somehow just put it on my greatest scrapes site. I ask Indiana two, but not to dwell on its own, but at the time the idea was again admitted it overloading it was that sloppy was at the right. Yes, ok, so I'm not justifying anything, but what I think the goal was at the time you remember, we woke up. We had had false claims about the president, removing a statue of martin Luther king out of an oval office got was fault. We been attacked for unwilling been in office for for twenty four hours and we wake up. this morning at integration and their several came cable tv Alice. I note that the president was was, I think, rightly so, upset that, after going to work for the first day where you got a bunch of billina executive orders

the bank's inside. This is what some folks are focused on anyway. The way that I approached this was look. If you look at of the live streaming and the different social media platforms did exist. Now that didn't exist even four years ago, ten years ago, it sort of having a conversation between when tv wasn't that did not right there? I thought, if I phrases in a way the encapsulates- and I think the key word was audience right or it as the fingers I'm ever been in person or something like this. The idea was not to focus on the number of bodies on the national mall witnessing it, but to try to talk about interest, to try to focus on

you know, people live streaming on twitter in and watching it on. A digital platforms are on websites that I didn't think would be controversial because many of those weren't available five or for or eight or twelve years prior, so you know, but again was it sloppy? Yes, how did you love playing hangman as a kid? What did you had to guess the puzzle and beat the clock The wind will trivia puzzle fortune is a free mobile trivia game, with different categories like music, sports movies phrases and more. If you play hangman growing up you'll love guessing the missing letters to figure out the word or phrase in the answer to solve each puzzle. Now, if you choose, Correct answer: a beat the clock you move on. The next level is simple, but the puzzles get harder overtime if you of word games and trivial. Like I do. You will love trivia puzzle, fortune, trivia, puzzle fortune has hundreds

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for the media? From that point forward, an incredibly yeah I mean, I don't think it anyway to deny that that sort of four, for I knew a lot of the phone not press me from Rome. I had a lot of relationships have existed for years, but I think for a lot of folks who I didn't know that was sort of that wasn't probably the best coming out. I am talking about? Is you are shaping the aryan see in their strategies and stuff for years before this? So you had relationships with these people did. They think you got over time. fully to the dark side when you stepped up and started speaking on his behalf, did they think you had been programmed by him? I ain't got a lot of people who had a lot of questions in terms of what my in a world where I would have wanted to come, and I think in some cases the some people just frankly did no mean we're making

when a while, the sanctions about who I am as an individual, what I thought or what I believed- and you know so I don't know, but I really cared much about that part, but yeah there's deftly open speculation about. I can't leave said this. Why would he do this in this? Isn't a guy with new and in many cases I think there is a lot of embarrassment about some of these individuals trying to pretend that there was a. further along relationship exists because they want to be part of the stories themselves. This I've known shown for fifty years, as I did. I tell you ah, but I think that they wanted to get it on the stories. Well, so they made it. He was there. We had some longstanding prior relationship, but rather a handful of folks, not room. There are new fairly well and I think they sort of rome. The angry leprechaun is not something we seen before quotes, clouds were shots, buys the guts or integrity, refuse orders to go out, and why he's a failure is job on the first day,

Now then said I work and political pr. I spent all the time what chance by sir did the day was soviet style propaganda, mixed with nazi tactics. I just wondered how you felt about those things when they're saying that about you. bout, the crowd size at the inauguration. What about running of the country again Using the I was an easy target and I'm and look I ever get set jointly clear to your audience. I dont, like I said I I look at that day is probably one of the top five days and I wish I could do a dual run. Nerve. I've thought about an harder, probably is number one or two. So it's not like I'm trying to excuse my behavior or how I came across a day. Your point I do. I think that was you know, is it as an enduring legacy out for a lot of these guys when they screw up they get the ability to just move honour at their side, We say I didn't. I didn't do this and so

the really big whoppers. What stories that have gotten wrong sources that were false, narratives that were pushed it? We're not true. I just their days in which I shall I get a chuckle out of the fact that if they were to judge me the same way that they wanted to be judge, I wonder what the press average would look like you did. He ever straight up asked you to lie now. is raising ever ask you to say that you thought that's a lie he believed it or not. You thought that at the lie, so there's a there's days when you might get a bad peace and economic news or something inside we ought to focus on. near the strike, the stock market and resiliency of euro of the manufacturing, these whatever it. So

there is a difference between lying and sort of highlighting what we call the industry spin. It are putting the best days in it. I dont think that you need, but I think there is a difference between a bold face. Lie words like hey: there's your two parts to go out and save five. That's a demand for both faults, thing to say if you said two plus two well, it's not as big as five and it's a little. You know larger than free you're, not saying for, but your line I mean I don't mean to be around the boy, but I think there is a big difference between lying, just somebody else and putting the best face on us policy or our action will nobody's quarter, that market on the left or the right correct as czech. Yes, when you guys, Gideon too,

that press room and say the things that you do say. Let's get away from the controversial things from just what you do report who gives you that content, because your speaking we have the white house, slash president, who tells you what that President slash administration wants put out there. So there's a combination of things, one you're looking at what started the news that day so yeah right now you know you got ukraine baby formula shortages. Are you know that you're gonna want to address those things right? So there are there. stories and narratives that are in the bloodstream already you know you got addressed us dinner, scheduling things then there's legit It is in policy priorities that the actual legislative affairs or the council's offer

the middle, doing something enough. He'll come to you and I hate you. I like this today, maybe the presence going on a trip somewhere. You want to get ahead of that orders, action are meeting is taking place. We want to highlight she put it all. Together, you go with your staff, you run by the other key stakeholders. Jobs will have set of affairs. Gentle councils office also publicly aids on it and find out what everybody's doing there. There are pressed assistance in assisting prosecutors that are working among the departments, the agencies an internal with no way out there, a sort of vacuuming up all of that kind of information in those announcement, this policy priorities and in helping to formulate what that briefing is gonna, look like and in many cases the president himself. What would say hey make sure you mentioned this or you know, what's not highlight the. Let me give you some

what you say: there's there's other things you don't want to get into that. Allow, for you might want to downplay cause. You can talk to somebody on every one of the topics that are gonna come up. Somebody gives you a briefing. These are points. This is what we're gonna talk about someone. So we would me probably two to three times with my press to strike the morning to start with a lest we knew what the stories were that were driving the morning morning shows we could look and so media see what was moving. We would know what was coming. pike, and we would sort of start to create that briefing document over three hour. We had an answer. I had a couple. People on staff that we would be following information, fax statements two until they make sure we put this in there and then, as the went on, would check in these kind of like a script and you're going back and say: hey, that's not having any more. Let's get it out aid they just out of this to the schedule is quoted in, but it's a dynamic document it's happening between.

first thing in the morning literally first thing in the morning I- and until you go out there you probably had the most unpredictable president? Certainly in that I can recall in my lifetime you had to deal. with what he had said in the last twenty four hours, and we all know there was a lot of in things that he said was that part of the briefing Here's what he said yesterday, we ve gotta, go out there and try to contextual is this the views this supported in some way was that part of the briefing absolutely I mean sunday, images writing its current mean. It's always can be part of the briefing, the matter whose president that the present will make a statement or a policy decision and the job of the prosperity that keep pushing the paddle. On that. To give it moment, to clarify it. Ah, you know me, you see. Listen. This white house, especially last week, said whether its covered relate

the statement on vaccines, you David go out, massage. What there is to it constantly issue. Sometimes the President nails it right. They got the message out of you. Wanted you wanna keep that going the momentum. I find that story or that narrative she go out and youtube. You dare put up sometimes the present. What's either we walk in his. Mr president, this is how what you said is being in trouble did you know some people are taking it this way, some of the other, but probably in our best interests to clarify it. So that's what I think: that's that's gonna, be a job with any private secretary. How much does the press secretary make so everyone so I think I made one seventy nine and one or two thousand- and it's been

since then sites like one eighty five. Now it they get to cost the living increase, the top so the way it works in the way our sisters were, they got commissioned officers, assistance to the president, deputy assistant to the present special assistance. Those are called commissioned officers day, there's a number of on that guy statute. They get the assistance. I think, there's twenty about. Those are the closest advisers to the present united states and the prosecutor in communication structure, our assistance to the president. Then it goes down and with each rank, salary goes down and then below that is the white house staff. They salaries determined by an overall budget. Should you could make that selling shrimp out of a van down by the river, so why, in god's name, would anybody this is like standing in front of a firing squad.

Every day for a hundred and seventy nine thousand dollars a year or so why? What Why would you look? I I look for a few reasons. One is that it is It was a dream job, maybe something that frank even think my career trajectory did not put that prosecutors. not stolen from the orange see generally do not generally doesn't end up in opposition. It was completely a unique opportunity, One number two, I believe in service observe my twenty one, twenty. Fourth, the on going, twenty forty or serving the military. I served tender for members of congress. You I believe in this country. I believe in the party I mean you know, did campaigns on pay that much better either side. I've lived

my entire adult life. Until I left the white house are neither a military, salary or governments, our campaign salary, so the money was never been. The thing for me, I could have left gone down. The K street watched him for a long time, but did this to me with an opportunity to be part of history me trump? I think I was one of the only other people that had worked. You know in a white house, so I thought I had a unique opportunity to really be part of helping to shape ah and promote the agenda of the present, but also many times are lots of different kinds of currency, there's monetary currency, emotional, currency, spiritual currency, social, currency and you're. Saying exactly that? The current? here. Monetary wasn't number one for you. It was a matter of service and you're. Still a commander right now enable reserve correct as back so service, is not just something that sub virtue.

Signalling for you. This has been a life commitment for you in serving country an instil in a military as a commander, and thank you for your service by the way I welcome I, you know, I think there is something that the upside is found something that I love to do and when you, when you can, do something: wake up every day that your passion about, I think that's that's the greatest way to go through life and for me, I've never had a, whereas at the urgency on capitol hill in the milk, I've always loved what I'm doing a blessed in that way, and so you know if I can provide, if I could provide for my family, which you don't let's face it. Hundreds thousand dollars for a lot of americans is allowed a lot of money. So you know we'd, never had anything. You know my wife and I took care of our kids and now

were blessed by that by what we ve been given. But it's never been financial in terms of what what drove me to serve the country deserve my party, what I believe in, but I think, if you can wake up at the end of a career and say hey, I loved going to work every day Loved what I did I was ass. You bought it in and, as I said, I don't think I've had a job where I had that experience, which is something that I truly feel blessed do not I'd rather make a hundred seventy nine It's not going to get something that I love doing then. The three hundred thousand dollars bang in my head the wall everyday saying I hate to be here, of course, if you knew then what you knew now, would you have taken their job? Guess? How do differently

but I look at the what I have been able to. I wouldn't be having this conversation with you right now. You wouldn't be calling sean slicer former vacations return, strategist. The organ seek as power the rumour driver, so I've been able to meet some amazing people and have some great experiences for both me and my family, and I wouldn't happen without that opportunity. The white ass. I would do it differently. I would there's a million things that I will change some of the interactions and I would have I I mean sometimes to a to a fall of fairly reflective person, and I think professionally personally, when you go through an experience, whether an interview or a project or an interaction, if you at the end of that, can come back and say: hey I couldn't I want. How could I have been a better person? How could I have been a better proof? It makes you, I think, a stronger person. It makes you a better,

why a better leader, if your constant looking to improve yourself and what you do for four for work, and so I've had a million reflections on how I couldn't turn things differently, but I will for ever be grateful for that. Finally in white house. Was there any moment during that time is pressing victory that stood out that, if you had to do over, you would do that moment over here, like while I'm wearing talked about one year ago, one. It was me, forever. I dont think that there is anybody that won't bring that up in in a lot of forums and and files, and things like that surrounds up there. Another couple other statements that I made where I stepped in It- and it is very rare fallen in terms of miss statements that I think came back on me and didn't reflect well on the president.

White house in administration and am- and I took it- they still take it very personally and you know, but there are times sam funds. Scorn of somebody's name too you know, I made a statement that regarding transaction against, what are they then the presence in the middle east and a military action. I got bungled and they got taken out of context, and it cost me that some people had been hurt by my statement, because there was completely.

Pursuit of what my intention wasn't when you say something that unintentionally hurts people or people believe that you're trying to hurt them or despairs them. I just that's. That's not a feeling that I am strongly in handling like this, my stomach god. I can't believe people think that I actually believe that we would want to hurt somebody like that. You buy the stable in April to seventeen about hitler and chemical weapons right. Is that the time you're talking about? Thank you gas nets that you made a very clear statement of apology. They put that in the proper context. After the fact to explain what you really myth and how you really filled yeah, I mean an end again We of the statement at the time was to describe the actions that were going on as renders an unacceptable in the comparison, the analogy those making was was ill conceived and it wasn't. It

frankly, I used to do media training over time and talk functional here. Like five things you don't do in one of them was hear anybody to hitler, and here I was violating my own media training advice in it. It was taken out of context it knowing that people do states were hurt by that statement, literally put a bit my stomach that every time is brought up again. I I get a little feeling for it again because it just eat. It was literally a moment where I was trying to describe the heinous actions of an individual and talk about. On a scale how out of proportion they were to anybody else and it was a diamond allergy to use, but knowing that people founded hurtful just was not, it was with something that I forget. I've seen you speak

about their before and you never miss an opportunity to be clear that that was not a good analogy that you did not mean and anyway to trivialize were compare what happened in the holocaust with anything else now I mean, like I said, the intention of this statement was to show how about aside what we like, and so it was like he's so bad that even this end and in the funny part about it is the statement that I made was technically off by a notch. I mean it was and it, but it was, there's no excuse for it. You shouldn't have entered into the vernacular and did not stop the really respect the fact that every time you ve had an opportunity to speak about it, you apologize made a clear acknowledged that it was not a good analogy.

Put in context what you really mean it, you ve, earned it every single time you ve ever talked about it since then, and that is really respect. You ve been very clear about that. I hate for people to judge somebody for amiss, speak or miss step in a moment when, in fact, they feel completely differently than what was said in a moment, and I think again this difference in my mind between destroying something up unscrewing, something up that You know, as I mentioned, hurt people right and so ah it is, if you make a mistake in it on you and it's like you, just look like up. I got a phone. Ok, you know can own that sometimes, but only when you do were in. Somebody takes it in a way that they think that you might happen, but trying to trivialize something or disparities and in some way, when that wasn't the case

at least for me anyway, to which catholic guilt and hence you know, so I wanted to make it clear what my intentions worried and- and I just anyway, as you said, I think, of an eye. I ve learned crystal clear on this: will you have barely you could try to trivialize, sidestep it or whatever, but you ve earned it every time and been very clear about how you really feel about it are respected at every time. I've seen you talk about it just as you are today, so I appreciate that you resign this position on July. Twenty first, twenty seventeen its reported that abruptly resigned as wide ass press secretary after vehemently

disagreeing with the appointment of air to these very much for your communications director. Is that an accurate statement? Yes, accept! Any luck, I knew let's backdrop. I knew that things were going well for me for some of the aforementioned reasons that we discuss, and so I thought to myself. Okay, this is not getting better. The press is not like the relationship isn't getting better. So at some point, you're gonna either resign or he's gonna fire you. But one of the two are gonna happen in so there was a moment when we were looking for staff, as you mentioned earlier than doing to jobs, often on precisely due to the white house, we needed additional staff. We needed communication support the present at seeing anthony vigorously defend

him in a number of television interviews and there are some other staff that that that known anthony the thought he would be helpful if I look at it as an opportunity said: okay, if he wants to reach of death, if you want to do things This is my moment I can get out now. I can stick around for two more munson out that I don't get fired and what I also didn't think you know the present was a guy. You say presbyterian through became stricter knowing the job. Knowing what the rules are and what the challenges that we face as the trump white house, I did not feel as though that Anthony would be the right path for the job here as a background and financed. He has been very successful in that I just in doing this. My whole life- and I said ok if he wants to do this and he wants to come into the eu- should be a charge. He I shouldn't because it not going to job, it's not gonna work, and I do so. I

use that, as I said, ok great, MR president, you want to shuffle the deck unita afresh. there's no way you can have one with me still here and on. It was very gracious into the only part of the team sport will find here. We can- and I said, don't look I'll walk away. I think it's the right thing to do and in what your new team come in and they don't have to have you do shawn sitting around here. They can you know we shuffle the deck and put people in the places that they think and want it their way, but it shouldn't be. You know two people clashing about strategy everyday so I looked at it is the right time, to my mind, do the right thing. How long was I fear that job from the time that he was announced in the time allotted to do is eleven days, I know where to me, and he claims that with great pride, I think you said eleven days twenty one hour. Something like this. You said a short

spin you're at the white house, but it does seem like thing: were really volatile. At that point they were we He walked away where you relieved, yet it was again. I don't know it was. It was the opposite of what I was describing a moment ago, the sense of a burden being lifted, and I mean I just I walked on this job taken hastily white ass prosecutor. I've seen them all before you know I like to joke, he could see, stand famous in your political people might go here, that's about it and I couldn't go to the grocery store. You know people were making hand gestures that work really appropriate. You know what I was out with my family and yeah. There is an element that not just being about mabel being about you. Gotta keep an eye on protecting.

Family that you, I would walk out of the house every day, five, thirty six and warning that get back to nine o clock at night and in tat. One was that you feel safe and other gap in the white house of forty five feet in the present a pretty safe. It's my family that is sitting at home with people calling dropping by frowned things at the house It was just. It was the right time to move on and I'm getting a little bit of life back me. I can't begin to explain to people the level of intensity that one along with that job and scrutiny when there is nothing that I could do that somebody didn't find. You know when you ve forgotten, wasn't buttoned the she wasn't tied. It was hey, look at charleston entire shoes and it's it's there is a level of scrutiny and personal attack and the trial that I just was not something that anybody could have ever anticipated or expected was. Why was that

job to willingly take hundred seventy nine thousand dollars is a lot of money in any country. Certainly, A lot of money in america for a family did the same like there are a lot less stressful ways. How did your family take this? you're, not a civilian use. the game, as you said earlier, but they are civilians, but you ve got alive aside from this year. boss, the red sox there and you ve, got two kids. Europe. Patriots fan like all of us, you gotta interest, you got family and how do they take it? How did they take? All of this is my wife has always been my scientists, defender and supporter saw me she cheap. She bore. a lot of the bargain. Just saying I can't leave something so saying this about you on which she was So, as I mentioned, she was the one at all. When you know somebody would make a threat, so she she held down before I could never done the job,

my mother and my family is an unbelievable support system during my tenure. That being said, if it was just difficult knowing that they had to be the defender of me, you know what people say something disparaging or my mom. My wife might even have to be the ones to stand up and say that's not who he is, and I love the charlie thankful for their love and unconditional support, but I think it was tough on them will have to be. How did they respond to some of the things in the media like certain? I love and those with a big was funny where they have been so. My kids were, I think, five financing,

ass a day they didn't they they knew. Did some people didn't like daddy method that occur, but they did they ve. Now it's funny and me, my son, or my daughter with nor so few months, farmer certainly like website at you. Obviously there there now about eleven sunday. They find some of this now funny. You know again, I think those it depends. The first time in my life skit, I think, was a little funny well deserved, maybe if he is

Did you I'm being honest? It was like okay, I stepped in it, so this is a little ripping. I think when it became personal. Why? Which is what a lot of this gets kind of did? There is only did it then lived removed into defence? Mole of that was over the top, and I kept me they said this is a difference between mean spirited twig shots at the job or whatever the substantive crosses alone, give written a book or radical nation. Yes, you talk about the bad administration and the fact that they are pushing us in a direction that a lot of the things that you talked about when you wrote that book.

had not come to pass when you wrote a book, but they seem to be coming to fruition. Now: inflation, the border crisis that we're talking about some of the k through twelve school and accra nations, some of the things that were made, be this. Thank you baiting or being handed out at the time have become major headline crises. Now you will see Around corners when you wrote that whichever I did a debate. People want to come down on. You around corners about these things. Coming up, how do you feel about what he referred to, I guess, is a socialist agenda, then being self doubt in the headlines, their citizens about that one,

radical nation. As you point out like when you put the book to bed, you got a few months before it comes out, you know and that's how publishing work I wrote it saying hey this is the direction were headed in ears, were, I think, we're gonna based on these policies. This is pronouncement and that europe mean every time that when the book came out, I got wholly smokes. Radical nation literally nailed it, and this is what what I thought was gonna happen and I've been weird. Where hope I was wrong. No one wants inflation. No one want people to suffer, and yet all of these policies I was telling people in radical nations must be a warning hey if we don't get things back track, this is where we're headed having to try to pack. The court began trying to make this estate obama and lo and behold, the last few weeks, here's what we got again was packed the court. We need to make this. He has stated get em, it's it's your point I mean look. I have a perspective that I talk about very openly

but the point a radical nation is to lay out here. The people here are the policies there pushing, and this is the direction we're gonna. Maybe peoples a great I like that, but I I I concerned about where were headed in terms of education. where are you from the culture? Obviously economically there's a lot of problems in a lot of these policies, and I just I think that, where the where this white, this is in any part of the other thing I lay out reclamation is the motives like. I think that Joe Biden was pretty open, I must honestly during the elections during his candidacy, were hidden, think these are the policies. I think you are it was a no. No. He won't do that. You just saying that to get elected he's doing a lot of what he said he would do, and I think the problem was a lot of people who ve known binding for a long time he's been washing fifty years it binds. Pragmatic, pragmatic is moderate. You won't do this an open.

his proposition that he wants a legacy. That is the most progressive president, which is what he said he would do and against some of them You might say great, I'm glad he's doing this. I would argue that the that's not the Joe Biden that previously has been watching for fifty years and runs the policies an ideology that these pushing book. That's where we're headed, do you believe europe is going to run again and who you think we'll run if he doesn't run some today? Yes, I believe Johnny chuck war on again, I think donald trump being donald trump will flourish, or five times before, making it known exactly what its intentions are, because he thought he understands the power of the media and the power of narrative. So he will keep us guessing, but I think that, as of today, right now. Everything I've seen and heard he's a man wants to run again and win and get his policies back on track. If he doesn't run, I think

raw forgotten around the centres is clearly the front door and the republican party, but there are you, don't make compare the former secretary of state my tends to follow my presence. They will definitely round, I think, Christina south dakota the governor. There will probably run Nicky Hayley, the former gammarus outskirts up carolina, we're not gonna supper. I lacked Can these, nor do, I think they will on the democratic side, when Joe Biden doesn't want real action that I think that fairly given I am on the demand side. I will make this protection. I believe the people to judge will be the democratic nominated, etc. So you think he will be. I do I think it's the establishment democratic party believes he is the future and are then. I think that he is using. this position is secretary transportation. To really cement some of the deficiencies that he had during his presidential? One arm, I mean, I think politically easy varies very strongly

Anyone on the right would be an idiot to dismiss him. You ve dropped those run. You see, electable hats, Wait I mean if you consider where we are right now we ve got the highest inflation for years the borders amassed foreign policy. We ve got, Met in ukraine we write north korea threatening stuff. I ran is unstable. What's going on in china that the just I dont think me look at what is happening in the mid term right now. People are our eighteen months in the Joe Biden, sad I'd like a red himself from the nominee most elections we haven't incumbent, if Biden worthy incumbent were to seek reelection hands down if he wins it binding doesnt. What I said on

fairly. Certainly won't it'll depend on how the nominees, if it is good to judge, I think glitter judge- would give more run for his money, but I think alternately based in the last four years come from gets reelected. Do you think the republican party? watch him to run again. Do you think they're looking for a new direction anew? Generational leadership? I think most of the party watson. There are obviously some vulcan minority aspects of the party that doesn't but New by and large, look at who people want to run in Paul still say, donald trump. You look at his influence in the republican primaries right now. Transport candidates do very well for a reason, and you look at the interest that still exists in what he does on mine is platforms, are neither an he commands medical presence, unlike either party, had seen at least in the modern age, and, I would venture to say, probably gone back through history. Do you think that either party is

going to listen to america and another to put individual liberty and freedom to the forefront here the reason I ask that question is because give you got a new shovel. Everybody wants to dig a hole, and I think when we got it The pandemic and government got really involved in people's lives exciting, do this. Do that do the other? It sometimes huh, I d give up what you ve gotten you got new, can oh, you got new inroads into people's lives and I'm just wondering if you think either party will recognise that that's going to be important to americans wiping the republicans I mean, I think, generally speaking, when you look at how what states did well and where people are migrating, I think the republican governors and and focus on the right. Definitely

I think, believe much more in individual liberty right now recognize what the lockdown stead, what the mandates didn't. Frankly, I think, some of the stuff. They were see in schools when parents watch them kids at all one zooms and recognise what was going on in class from around the country. They much more involved and said I want to one for school board. I woke me more and more in my childs curriculum or what's happening in their classroom. I'm sitting in many ways I firmly with the republican party has tried to to harness that. I think many folks in the left, like the idea of government being more involved in that's frankly, the the philosophical and ideology ideological difference between the two parties From a psychological standpoint, I have the feeling that you really make a mistake. If you take any position that rewards bad behaviour and seems to me that.

We ve got a lot of things in the last two or three years. That is rewarded, bad behaviour. I'm talking about everything from paying people not to work too not prosecuting crimes to a lot things that distance. Our opinion that, if we're dot consecrating equating behaviour. If were actually rewarding things we don't want. Reoccur, we're getting way off just common sense. I couldn't agree more it. I look at the idea that you can bash a building or vandalism building or the euro smashed the window of a police car and there's no consequence work. I think I mean I remember growing up. There was a sense of right and wrong of obeying the law, now when somebody breaks the law,

or you know even now, we're seeing people go to the supreme court, justices homes and threatened them. I don't understand how that is acceptable behaviour, and your point Second, that you mainstream, that and say: oh that's, fine, because we have a problem when you came home, someone or threatened someone or destroy properly without consequence for impunity, that's it. That's a very dangerous places, its desire to be as a country emmy at world as strong as the laws that we pass. I mean I'm watching lawmakers chocolate, not enforcing certain laws and like that's not how the country works. If you dont, like the law, there's a process we're getting it changed or removed or repealed, but you don't to go round and pick and choose what you want to obey and this country, I think we're losing that sense of right now

in terms of lawlessness, but also just a sense of decency and and and again, there's plenty to go around on both sides and yeah. But I think this idea of o of how we treat each other is not something that I do that. That is a good. This is where I it is healthy for the society right now. Will I agree with you and I think there are a lot of differences we have. I don't think it's just all get her the camp fire and sing kumbaya, because there are major issues about which people have serious differences and those need to be dealt with its not just everybody just come together there, our differences, but there are ways to deal with those unity we talk has any getting one. One of the things the third is a prevailing sense dead? That kind of behavior gets all the attention, and this is you know this clip on vital. If you start to look at

you know I mention housewife from company is every night a new snacks were the second highest really show on the network. If people didn't want to see a civil and respectful discussion of issues and also make it turns out, they come back every night and I think if you look at podcast like yours in a lot of the shows that you don't have that animosity that that sort of angry nature than they do well. So I think that there is this narrative son I'm set only conflict cells or that its rewarded, and I think that that is an entirely true that there are outlets there are shows. There are platforms that people are going to because they want a civil, respectful discussion or discussion of ideas. So I think we also have to start making sure that we we help point people into

where I think more most americans are not just the the loud minorities on on them on its ends of spectrum. This, because these yelling does it mean they should get the most attention and I've done broadcast on violence, no, by defending the police, climate change, the great resignation shoplifting implied by us legalization, marijuana, homelessness, police, cr, pronouns and we ve had a respectful them without a voice being raised from your side, it's possible. blue and young can resolve by learning from the side. That's why but I see you doing whether you agree with them or not you let them have their voice and that too He is the only way you can learn why somebody takes a position. They do occur

you for what you're doing, and I can't thank you enough for coming on the day when talking about every thing that we talked about here are really oppression. you do on it and I hope you keep riding and I hope you keep talking. I hope people keep listening. That's how I think, you're saying Thank you for this opportunity. A truly is an honour. The allotted interviews it did it truly is honoured real estate and have the conversation with you. After all, you ve done it. Some of the amazing people you have on your shoulder your partner, so I quit you, including in the discussion, will list I encounter about it. That's the deal Everybody. Let me remind you. Slicer in company, is on news backs it's at six p m weekdays, we'll put up blanks and clips and everything sean so they'll be able display,

right here and finds you there they'll know where you are and when to find you so we'll get all of that done and it'll be on all of our sights in social platforms in everything. So people can seek you out and find an intelligent and balanced discussion. So John, thank you so much. I can fight thought.