In part 2 of the Phil in the Blanks podcast about the dangers of social media content, Dr. Phil continues his discussion with Imran Ahmed, Founder and CEO of the Center for Countering Digital Hate. They discuss social media companies not taking accountability for third-party content, building awareness of this gross neglect, and more.
Social media is full of wonderful opportunities for people to connect. It is also filled with people who push identity-based hate, extremism, disinformation, and conspiracy theories. Imran Ahmed joins Dr. Phil on his Phil in the Blanks podcast to discuss psychological malignancies on social media – and how to protect our children against them.
ABOUT: The Center for Countering Digital Hate counters hate and disinformation, by disrupting the online architecture enabling its rapid worldwide growth. Digital technology has changed the way we communicate, build and maintain relationships, set social standards, and negotiate and assert our society’s values. Digital spaces, however, are often safe for bad actors spreading hate and disinformation, turning them into a hostile environment for others. Over time these bad actors, advocating diverse causes – from misogyny and racism to denial of science and conspiracy theories – have mastered using these platforms to cause considerable real-world harm.
●TikTok Parents Guide: TikTok pushes harmful content into young users’ feeds. Download: https://counterhate.com/tiktok-parents-guide/
●Deadly By Design: Deadly by Design – our new report – will help provide parents and policymakers insight into the TikTok content and algorithms shaping young lives today.
(Source: https://counterhate.com/ )
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I want to take a pause here to give you a quick preview of what's airing today on doctor phil, take a listen twenty five year old officer gifts and what
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Two thirds of american teens use, tik tok tooth two and three and the EU.
on average, for eighteen minutes a day that is
unprecedented shift in where we get our information from these platforms. Advise me
the world seem more time.
Refining more brutal, my
ha style they
the rest of society seem seem, the sort of like that, like it's full of enemies, and that that
We have an effect on our politics will have an effect and democracy over time. It might make it
possible for sustained democracy, because democracy relies on the basic knowledge that we are all in it together
and it's really hard to believe that we're all in it together when social media presences with fear and hatred constantly
these kids that are being bombarded with this therein,
their formative years, their brains are in their formative years and
our studies are telling us that this action
it changes the anatomy of their brains in the neocortex, which is
our party or brain, which is the executive functions it's where impulse can
decision making foresight. All of the things that have to do with
being able to navigate the terrain of life, the
areas that are developing
We are seeing changes. There were saying
volume there in grey matter and the connectivity of white matter, so we're seeing actual anatomical changes that are in it,
direct correlation with how much screen time their spending, how much time their spending with a device- and we know what
getting from that device. So its content as well as screen time the diet of
formation. Their receiving on line is,
really one sided and some of its not curated. In fact, this is not created by human beings with compassion and wisdom, kindness, a
a desire to make them full and decent human beings, is being curated by algorithms, which are ruthless
in their single minded pursuit of only one thing, keeping them on the platform for as long as possible addiction. Is it seeking through them as long as
possible to maximize the revenue they can get out of them, and that is
having a really severe effect in our kids. It's there's been a rat
radical increase in the number of kids with mental ill health with eating disorders with self humming
we know, because you and I have talked to people who who've lost their children as a result of these algorithms.
fear that there will be more unless we actually get control of that
the greens and the indifference the kind of the laziness of the way the platforms are administered today. It's important to put yourself in
that person shoes at persons frame of mind and picture. The thirteen
you're, a girl that is so
looking for something because she's on there and
kind of lonely
maybe they're marginalized. They don't really have a peer group. They don't fit in. Well, then, this big
Is there a reality,
there alone. With that content, it's kind of a preacher
sure to, for example, eating disorders,
because we know with a believing, for example,
one of their goals and I've had them. Tell me so many times they get to a point
we're all they want is to be alone with their disease. Just leave me alone
Let me go back in my room. I don't want to go out. I don't want to do anything. I want to get home as fast as I can
go back, where you leave me alone with my disease. So here they are
back in the room on their phone or their tablet or whatever, and there
click in and clicking and clicking- and it's just them in this.
yet there so vulnerable. It is killing me.
Problem is that when you know some things going wrong and when you first
to do something about it. When people ask you and show you the impact, if it when parents say to say my child is dead because of your algorithm
and then you still continue to deny deflect delay to even worse.
throw dollars out a lobbyists at a rather than do the right thing, then I think
you become morally culpable. I think that some of those executives have have said
themselves into believing that the legal immunity they have under the current laws section two thirty, as you mentioned, the legal immunity
have from any liability for that for other people's content on their websites is also
a moral impunity for the consequences of what happens without content, and they don't
legal does not necessarily mean what is truly morality and they have
even very vulnerable to people like you and people like me. Who cannot stand up and say now. You must do better uk
well. What's the acceptable casualty rate
It's like you, you're putting the kantian out, and you know that thirty percent of the young
women that are going to be reading. There
the teens. The pre teens are bound.
The to this or whatever. Is that an acceptable rate than answers
large, nobody he'll know you could put that out there when you know that a portion
of your population,
not a matter of if, but when they are going to succumb to that.
It's not a matter of is just there. If you search for it there
force feeding it to them. Yet
they feel in the bikers. Welcome back, listen! This is part two of my conversation with iran, Ahmed,
under and ceo of the centre for countering digital hate throughout the region,
I'm devoting some more time to this is because I truly believe that
this social media phenomenon? It's happening right now with our young people may be the
number one biggest crisis that their facing in their lives today and that your facing as their parents or grandparents, we can't spend enough time on. This is just a big deal. It can change there,
both it can change the anatomy of their brain, not just their focus where, when they stop doing it, everything goes back normal, but their actual anatomy of their brain.
and you're doing something that changes the way your brain is actually shaped and functioning. Thus, I'm you need to pay attention to look we're talking here about addiction. The historically we always talked about addiction is just being something chemical.
not true, because this social media is set up such that it hijacks your pleasure sinners,
and so you have the same reaction to it. You do to getting high on drugs
it set up to a deck them is set up to a dick you, I'm focusing
on them, but you need to hear everything I'm talking about young people regarding social media, because it does the same thing to you me and our brains there's something called the mystery mastery complex I've talked about in the past,
and that is if we maintain a little mystery you can
maintain a whole lot of mastery. That's the mystery mastery complex and that's it
exactly what's happening with these algorithms.
algorithms are something there
but a sort of understands, but nobody really,
it gets how they work without
boring you with how they actually function and how they do what they do. We can pass
where do the end product. That is. This is an artificial intelligence tool.
analyze the user and
beads them can't hear that.
Nothing more than click bait. It will get the you
sir, so upset
so emotionally invested that they will continue clicking the next thing. The next thing, the next thing that wouldn't happen-
This is something they like if you like, watching kittens play and do fun things
that for a while, then you'll go and do something else, but not if it's getting you emotionally invested and that's what happens. There's bins
research here that shows within two point. Six minutes these
algorithm start feeding thirteen year old, girls, self harm content because it
knows that they lack self worth and self esteem. He Enron is really focused on this. An absolutely believes that federal rules are needed to force these platforms to
more to protect children. Obviously, they're not gonna, do it on their own. Obviously, they're not going to do it voluntarily and there is an urgent need
to reform these online spaces. These social media platforms. That means you ve gotta, start making
Is you go short raising hell about this? You gotta start writing to your representatives to your senators. You gotta start complaining to the platform,
because without intervention these so
Romania, algorithms are going to continue to create click bait which gets more profit for them. The more you
The longer you stay the more as they can run the more money they can make. We need me
painful transparency about this stuff and what we found is they did the research. They know what
on their just not reacting to it. There not doing any
think about it because it means money for them so
and I continue to talk about this,
and get into more detail about it. I think you're going to be
raged by some of what you here and is
cause you to call your teenagers into the kitchen table or in the living room and say we need to talk because other
when these teenagers know that there be an played
when they know that they are being,
There are good like that.
Maybe you could motivate them to modify their own behaviour and still do it just because you tell them
these are real change here,
So listen to the second part of my conversation with this world class expert. I think it's going to stop.
Some real action for change
and I want to hear from you a message board. Let me know what you think. I'm really proud
you, have him run on an I'll? Let you listen to me what you think here we go with part two,
so the two most interesting proposals: I've seen on reform of the law by Daniel citron marian francs to low professors who suggested introducing into the current. What does that? The immunity that they have full third party contents of other people's content on their website is a reasonable test,
You get the immunity as long as you behaved in a reasonable way, and that would
that would essentially make social media companies some.
The same law that everyone else in america is which is negligence law. Why? Why
they given a special get out of jail, free cod from negligence which no other company. No other industry enjoys nobody asta.
Now put out a product if it's a baby
rage or a car or a paintbrush, whatever your hail to the standard of
predicting that this is gonna, be safe. Absolutely, and you know, I think that we have to understand that companies. It is
I know what it's like to run an organization. I you know I-
wake up every morning this morning she woke up at four. Am worrying about money. Is the truth about whether or not I can pay my staff next month?
and the month after- and I know what it's like to turn to attempt to run organization to worry about the bottom line, and that's why we have laws, because actually they make sure that we are not just thinking about profitability every second of the day. We are also thinking about our responsibilities to consumers too
society as a whole on, I think, is really important that we have these companies subject and negligence law will not what we are about to launch appear say: campaign across the united states in the next few months. We should just remind people that these companies need to be
yet the same laws as everyone else, and you can only get these changes. This really simple change, introducing reasonable
a reasonable, thus test. If people understand that things can change, but the only way you get change is if he demanded you never got change if you just sit there and hope that politicians,
Do the right thing and it's about time that we actually had a movement for change when it comes to these platforms are having so much of an impact on our society and we know killing some killing. Some of our children is time that we have a movement for changing. We can do better than this. Ok, what's the number one reason you should try in the cart shopping over one point: five million unique products from over one thousand retailers and get everything delivered right to your door and as fast as one hour all in one app. So you can spend more time with the ones who matter most visit. Instead cart dot com to get
Delivery on your first three orders offer valid for a limited time. Ten dollar minimum per order. Additional terms apply that lists. Think about how outrageous.
a change? Your asking for that change? Is reasonableness
I'm a radical. I just want a real
the boldness radical you're not asking to revolutionize the whole free internet.
you just saying, and they just need
to held a standard of reasonableness, that's all I'll. Tell you what this is. This really ready matters?
to me I mean you are blessed enough to have to raise children and grow
children, but my wife- and I were you- know- were hoping for offers this year and we
at ten p m at night. This is what we talk about. I switch off to work, but sometimes we start talking about
Can we like raising kids and
we are scared, because, actually, how on earth do you raise that these things that you invest so much love and time and effort and you know, are- are sort of the way? The our our our love, my wife's love, Elizabeth love for me and my love for her and renew itself
in. You know after we're gone it's through our children and we are scared about how hard it's going to be to raise them because it feels like the world is more. It is a more difficult world to raise our kids in one in which
social media companies are getting away with, not with with actually treating our kids like a revenue source and not as
As any great society should, which is that we put our kids
first on the moral, physical, emotional development, and let me tell you how fast its change,
I'm in the twenty first season of
fulfil we launched in two thousand to.
when we launched the first text had not been set,
Was not a single social media platform that was no instagram? There was no snapchat, there was no dick talk. There was none of that, and so we ve had to adapt and learned of testified before congo
twice about cyber bullying. Those worsted even exist when we start at how fast it changed kid used to get bullied at school
it would be in the lunchroom or on the bus doc we are waiting for the bus is to come now.
it follows them home. You can even chair
in schools, but the bullies follow them. You think they're back there in their room.
Working on their homework, much of which is posted on the site for the school
and in fact therein some kind of a chat room were some kind of platform where there are people saying every
he hates you at school tomorrow. I want you to kill yourself and they do it happens. All too often
things have transpired just since we ve gotten on the air now Tik tok launched this in that year of co author about this parenting programme. It we'll talk about here,
His daughter molly tragically took her life at fourteen and he said just with what they found.
Sixteen thousand three hundred pieces of content had been saved.
twenty one hundred related to suicide self harmon depression, and it was two hundred and three
the eight videos- and he commented that the
investigators, couldn't even
watch. All of the content, because it wished
who upsetting that four weeks. They couldn't sleep at fourteen,
Girl is absorbing all of this, but my team,
just normal people that kind of use
quite young, and so we have to have psychic dynamic therapy available for all stuff, because every night,
Then someone will come to you and say: is it normal to have nightmares every night and I'll say a case time? Peter can see time for you to go, see a therapist and it's really really challenging and difficult content, and if parents could see what their kids are seeing, I think that either
be horrified and be they would naturally get into a dialogue with them about it. In fact, that is really at the core of our recommendations to parents that in whose daughter molly,
the current life and I wrote in our parents guide, which we ve got.
a website is free of charge. It's counter hate dot, com, slash parents and parents should go and download it as soon as they can, because what it would explains is one of the steps in creating a a a a decent dialogue about this
I ain't brain signs you- and I know this is it is, first of all, for me
whereas yourself with the platforms- and you can do that by reading the report, then
start, a discussion with your kids, safe them. Look we'd like to know
shapes and boundaries. Here I want to.
understand more about what you're saying you teach me, but what you're seeing an hour I'll help you to provide contacts? I'll teach you a bit about what I think that
but this content means why you're seeing so much of a particular type, what
or not is normal or not, and how you can. You know how I felt when I was your age and how I can help you to context, relies some of the content that you're reading, because that's the
The way that the we out,
bridge that knowledge gap, that there is right now between the generations in the kind of content the world, seeing where not all. What sat round the tv any more like we were when I was growing up in
just during england, benign thirty forty years ago. It is a really different world in which we are lighted looking at different screens, and you have no idea what your kids looking at them
but we were watching was passive
We weren't interaction with it. We weren't engaged in getting feedback immediately in my prior work before doktor phil. When I had like a real job. One of the things I did was work on airline crashes, many many of them. One of the things I had to do was assess pilot performance in the cockpit. So I listened to the cockpit voice reporters which are the last thirty minutes of the flight,
right down to impact. I have two boys and they would be really interested cause. It would be all over the news and everything and then I would fly to the site and come home with a copy of this cockpit voice, recorder and hearing the pilots. The last thirty minutes down to impact in a row said: oh they're, so cool. Can we hear it
not one time in all those years that I let one of my boys here, one second of those recordings, because there's just some things you did not supposed to hear it is, you cannot hear it once you hear it were,
It's not geared for that, and I look at molly, herron hundred and thirty eight videos of suicide and self harm. There's some stuff we're not supposed to hear let alone be overwhelmed with it. The coroner's conclusions were that to Molly who had who had depressing
tendencies that what the videos had done- and it was the sheer volume of the videos that this she got them repeatedly again and again
Can it normalized the idea in our head?
the normal way out of feeling. That way was to kill yourself. So she took her own life because she thought that was
the right that was the normal housewares feeling you and if you ve, been
a system that does that kid's a you know that if you
you, if it was a product on the market, you you they immediately run into the factory foreign say: stop, stop. Is it we ve got. We ve
we're gonna work. I was going wrong. These plants in homes double down,
you said it earlier. You would do a recall right if you had a car that they ended with that out.
You would do a recall and the doing the opposite.
when you see the algorithms inaction wendell like we did when we saw how the algorithm so rapidly started, giving people this content when we study
to grow and other platforms in youtube is
crazy thing, there's a lot of conversation right now about saying: less ban, tik tok then, because it has the most addictive algorithm it does it's the most effective, the algorithms. The other platforms are really happy about
so they're all secret. He sang yeah ban, tik tok. You know why cause instagram is trying to copy it right now with instagram reels. Soap. Tik tok, which is a chinese company, has cracked the formula for the crack cocaine of algorithms. It is the most addictive, the most dangerous algorithm. Ever
the problem is that matter which owns instagram and google, which owns youtube, are doing
exactly the same thing with instagram reels and youtube shorts. Now, so they are playing
really really sly game. They are saying yeah ban, tik tok. Meanwhile, that run developed the same technology themselves.
kind of time that we just deal with the industry as a whole, because the truth is that all of them a kind of his
as each other. These days,
I see it were paying for this kind of commerce
we and show you see it in their real,
starting to get pretty close, pretty similar, oh yeah, absolutely I I think tik tok is slightly. It has the advantage. It's a really clean,
Guess I'm dumb, but is about how easy the user experience is to create content until distributed, and actually these are often
the things that are marginal between a great product and a good product and antique docs got it right? But matter is a big company I mean mark Zuckerberg is,
items himself with a hundred billion dollars. You do that by being a pretty smart guy, a running, a business, and I think that they will eventually crockett. Google is one the world's biggest businesses, I think he's
It is important that we remember that that the
They are in
not a race for who can create the best content or the best experience it is who can create the most addictive experience, an addiction,
is a word that we were. You know we in society. Think of as a of one of the negative words addictions, a bad I'd, bad thing. Social media is literally a platform whose job it is to addict you for as long as possible.
And in doing so, addiction often has a lot of negative one negative consequences to it, including killing young people have always said that young people have the knowledge
but not the wisdom to use the internet. It's our job with fully developed,
aids to bring the wisdom to see around corners, but to do that we have
to acknowledge that this artifice
intelligence is taking over and happening and its feeding all of this to the kids,
We may not have the knowledge of how they navigator ran all this quickly, but we do
need to have these conversations. This programme that you and I and have put together you pay,
I don't know where to start. They dont know how to start, and I love the fact that one
of your steps in air is the approach of you. Teach me show me how this is working. Show me what it's doing. I have found that when these kids learn
wanna be so independent and so self determine when they learned you're gettin played
They don't like that and sometimes they are pushed back, but this getting them to teach the parent is. A brilliant approach is just a brilliant turn of phrase
is in getting them to be open to teach their parents about this?
it opens the dialogue. But yet I like, I kind of realise this from my staff because they take real joy. Their old
Me as younger than me, there's a real joy in explaining to grandpa m, ran out, tik tok works and the like.
Icann will show you grandpa, and I I sort I explained that one
I think, there's a really nice dynamic to it and it feels really- and it feels really symmetrical for the kids to be able to do something for their parents and for the parents to be able to give something back.
and I think that's a wonderful way that we can actually bridge gaps between in in knowledge and the knowledge of how the platforms work for the parents, but the knowledge of what that content means.
Kids. What is normal in. Oh, how can I context realise these feelings that I have these emotions are encouraged to have in terms of how I should think about myself. Think about my place in society and think about how we live. My life
yeah when you said it seem like the normal thing. That's how you get out of these feelings that just sit tight.
Down my spine there
seemed to her like this is what people do when they get. To this point, that's really disturbing yeah programming, her for that it was, and
I I saw even when I was lost in london. We had we had breakfast together,
coffee together and dumb.
I e an israeli british and kind of you know, stoic and, and he's just been through so much and he's been so dignified and so decent throughout it all, and I'm not
stoic, and I just desperately want to give him a huggin
and share his share is pain because it eat what he is being through is unimaginable, and I note that the reason he does what he does today tells historian
Tells molly stories cause heat s. Pretty, wants this not to happen to any more parents? He desperately want this to happen. I think for
in and for molly. We need to make sure that we, you know we say
One is too many that the thousand
if children who have been affected by this, that tens of thousands possibly
a lot lot more because we haven't done enough studies on this. We need to do this for them now. Well, it's so obvious, but yet on April, eighteenth mark Zuckerberg testified under oath.
congress. That method does not design its products to be addictive under oath that
when he says that I view our responsibility as not just building services at people like, but his buildings,
this is a good for people and good for society as well.
study a lot of effects of well being of our tools in broader technology and life
any tool they are good and bad uses,
if you're using social media, to build relationships than that's associated with all the long term, measures of well being- and he said to just passively.
Consume content and not
gauge, will people that doesn't have the positive effects and it could be negative november to
He is under oath. That method
design is products to be addictive march. Twenty first under oath that is to grow
is not addictive Davis met.
head of safety. Justly
September testified under oath to congress. It instagram is not addictive. She testified that she disagreed with calling the shots
Doktor addictive Adam Missouri, president of instagram, twice
a twenty one, written
testimony under oath to congress. I want to assure you that we do have the same go. We want all teens to be
safe online. There just saying the way this is addictive. Is it so funny? Because that's what
If said publicly on undergrowth, which I have given evidence to congress,
under oath, and I I find it eight both a great privilege- and I
I found taking that oath to tell the truth, the others this moment. We think yourself, that's does that's a big promise and I'm
I keep to it and it might be challenging, but I I am going to keep to it and they they they. They have that moment and they said what they said. What we know, however, to be true, is that, because what we've what's happened, in particular with instagram and matter semester, is the parent company of face.
can instagram last year a whole bundle of internal documents from that platform was leaked by a lady
frances, how can a whistle blower who came forward the securities and exchange commission
did the assisi. With internal documents saying I can
is that they have been lying and that public statements on those
loaded studies, including studies of instagram, and wish they, they admitted, which they'd studied what young girls thoughts about their platform
realise that one in six young girls was saying that platform makes them feel worse about themselves. They said that that
there was a strong correlation. There was a strong linkage between the use of the platform and negative body image that the fact that that's what they're saying behind closed doors is so different is completely the opposite:
what they sang to congress, I think reinforces, is well why I've I've been advocating for a long time, not just for safety by design. So you know to introduce risk assessments and everything else, but for mandatory transparency from these companies when you control the mines,
People as these platforms. Do you have a special responsibility to be a little bit more transparent by default, then
you know right now. They they they haven't zero requirements on them to have to actually explain how that platforms work, what they know
themselves in the risk assessments. They ve done this this there is less of a bit of help.
safety standard for facebook, this platform, the controls, the billions-
people around the world and the information they see compassion
at delhi in in brooklyn, which would have to submit itself to you know instant inspections by health and safety inspectors. Facebook right now, basically can self report to congress and say whatever it wants. There's got to be transparency and amarc. You have testified
under oath a number of times and that's a moment where you stop and think
I'm adding, I dont know to my vocabulary le because if they are something- and I don't have the empirical data right,
their accurately in front of me. I've learned to say I don't know this exists,
and the answer to that. But I'll add it to my testimony after the fact, I'm not going to get up here and take a wild stab at it. I'll get that information and added after the fact therapy
their knowing what they know from their study and saying what they say. Look
absolutely on, and wit,
our conversation is changed a lot because you know earlier on this conversation you so that you spoken to people from these companies and an you. We want to believe, because we are people who believe in the goodness of other human beings that
They will eventually see the light and do the right thing, but I think they ve been given enough opportunities now that we have to be cynical about whether or not we can get into certainly the top people, the people who should know better the people who have the brains to smash the total visibility.
Companies. They have access to all the data that their producing all the research that doing we have to be cynical,
whether or not these are good and decent people, whether or not the right people to run come to run these companies. I know fisher having spoken to you now
republicans and democrats that some of them say where we should have an fcc full the internet. We should unite the same way that we do for broadcast media this some of them say
should have a licensing authority that says that you should have to pass a fit and proper test a test of whether or not you are of the right kind of corrective control, something that is so important to our societies, because I suspect that if you, if you submitted those people at you just mentioned people like and take any davies mark Zuckerberg at emissary to a fit and proper test, the answer would be completely unfair and arabs
It is not the right people to be running platforms of such importance. I think you're right and, I think, maybe mid level people aren't is advised about what's going on. I think we have to.
also, look at parents, parents at cave and give their kids these devices access to these.
Vices at nine ten eleven years old, that's just wrong. Every year you can resist cave
being and letting them get into that world is another year. Their brain develops its another year, their self worth their self esteem. Their ability to
determine who they are. All of that just strengthens and strengthens and strengthens. I just think thirteen
That's too young for kids to beyond these platforms, and
certainly if they're getting them these smartphones and of
ices with access at nine ten eleven. I do think there too,
vulnerable. I don't they should be on their. We should have a way to police that, in some fashion, is just too scary,
I have a twelve year old, granddaughter she's very sophisticated and has a busy busy life and
don't worry so much about her, but I know a lot of twelve year olds that
if they were on air. I would be very scared that there too impressionable I dont, want to lecture
aei, you know- and I I don't have the the knowledge or the experience of being of being a psychiatrist or parent. Yet in a of of teenage children, but I I I think, asking a
smartphone and ironically, named smartphone or one of these platforms to baby see your kids is, is
I I once I once said this before she got into a lot of trouble for it, but I'll say it again is sort of as irresponsible. As asking prince andrew to babysit your kids, I wanted to yeah
we are still in england, it might be, but that's what
want people here, though, if they understand how this has been curated and how they are deciding
on getting clicks and getting those eighteen minutes on
god, you wouldn't leave your kids with him. Yeah, look at the very least.
when the old enough to have these devices. You also need to add in the additional bay of having conversations about that content, because the unsupervised access to these devices is it
you are allowing predators to be connected to their prey on their praise. Our children and the practices are not just the algorithms, but there also real product is out that there are people who was spreading this content deliberately.
some of them. We we we studied the contents of we know some of the tricks used. So let me give you one example of one of the tricks used by these content produces one third of their videos: you'll be a puppy dogs that kids watch the puppy dog videos once they've watched the puppy dog videos and liked them the platform says. While this person likes this content, grace's work and that it will feed them the rest of their content, the problem is the rest. Their content is dangerous content, though we've seen that that trick being used by all sorts of what we call bad actors ccd, I said we say we deal with two things: bad actors and bad clap.
Arms is not just platforms thereof, predators out their people who want to cause harm, and that can be everyone from foreign state foreign state governments who who are trying to create division.
in an undamaged to our societies, to people who just get their kicks from causing harm, and there are people like that people with high levels of in psychology was called negative social potency who get their kicks from causing chaos from,
causing harm from causing pain, is already familiar, psychological characteristic of trolls. So you know connecting your kids to those two predatory, algorithms and predatory people through really really danger
Your parents need to be aware to straight predators, sexual predators.
I don't know if you have the numbers of how quickly the child care
mrs pack has with a sexual
later when they get on the internet of seeing the numbers, and it was disturbing, but again is like the book
It used to be in the lunchroom of the bus stocks. The predators
to be on the trench code hanging around the schoolyard, say anyone
pretending to be someone their age,
building a relationship and trying to get them to go.
from virtual to real world. What is funny use the the word virtual, because actually one of the areas that we've been increasingly looking at is virtual reality. So, what's the next big of an area for development
of social media and matter, as we know, has renamed itself in part because they see the matter verse, which is what they call a virtual reality where you put a headset on your head and you can interact with people in three dimensions: mush
more visceral in your face experience than just writing something on on on a on a website, they see that as the future of how they want to build
That company will. We did a study last last year, which looked her. What's it
I come. The number one social media app on virtual reality is called. Visa chat is its on matters oculus platform and we found we fund adults, grooming children. On that platform, we actually we developed a system, so we could record what our researches was seeing in the headset at the time.
and what we found was wheat, wheat. We got all this video recorded, it came out last year. We ve actually we're just preparing a new analysis. We ve just finished the world's first major analysis of hers,
iceland worlds wells which is masses own up on those platforms. Looking at whether or not
children are being groomed on that? I'm telling you parents, if you bought your kid innocuous headset for chris
so for hanukkah over the holidays. I'd be thinking twice about it, because the stuff we found was really disturbing.
again and again, we seeing this failure that that that that there is just a failure to think about how to build in safety, in particular for young people, and what did you find
they are. However, they grooming them really simple.
Things I mean we just found
he's going around wanting and and asking like whose how old are you girls, as she's thirteen,
Starting with sexual conversations stunned to talk about their appearance, that body very very rapidly, we found also, we found one guy preaching NEO nazi wiser
misses the ideology and saying, if you use the n word, this girl here will kiss you too, to a young child. We can we notice a child because we can hear their voices prepubescent hasn't broken yet and the kid
says the inward and you know what that's one of the most disturbing things I've seen. This is not just me saying it. We record
This is being rick where it was this. This study was done last year in the new york times, put it on the front page of the twenty seven or twenty eight december
going to any one. So we we know with what we ve done. This new study now and horizon worlds. We hope to get it out as soon as possible, because ass we do, we do. The research would get it out as quickly as possible, because we know we wanna reduces much harm as possible and forcing companies to act not at the time.
reasons. Method did respond to our research and they said we instituting a new the new
rules for our platform. What one of the things that we found was that if you try report bad behaviour, the through reporting system was broken, so use you actually than they have a system saying
as abuse but care, and you can do something about it. We click what we realized was they disconnected
long from the alarm bell. So there is no well going off. We just get pulling it
and nothing was happening, so they have, I think, institute to some changes. But still, why is a wise, an organization with twenty staff on a too
half million dollar budget having to tell a company. It's worth hundreds of billy,
of dollars. Your system is broken bunkers right, that's crazy, because
are functionally blind. They don't want to see that
right. Now there working
I'm getting it up and running and they all want to see their, but I'm really
linked to that article, that you talked about in december of twenty one on the website and put it up, so people can see it and we're gonna,
to this programme. Also. Is there a title to that?
title to there is just a parents guide is come to hate, dot, com, slush parents, ok, we ve been
that we're gonna put that up on the website. Look here
obviously on the leading edge of this and you ve, got to keep me in the loop on this and come back and talk about this as it breaks. So we can get it out because it will get to
millions of parents, IRAN,
this ability of describing this stuff in ways that
our understandable and be don't gloss over people's eyes
tell me what I wear this in such technological ways. They were like
my god, you lost me when you start document abc, but you describe it from a year
users point of view. Parents can understand it
it's you. We have a ton of questions and comments about this, and this is a great place to keep this
alive and hot. So this no, this platform is
But do you guys, anytime? You have stuff that you need at their here and on the show as well
and it was evening we could do to help with these p essays that you're getting ready to do. Let me know thanks sam, I stopped it fell,
shoot those things with you for you anything
you can do to help this. Let us know cause. I want this information out there. Thank you and look thanks to their parents. Are there
the moms and does like people at my mother in law, susan from oklahoma- who I know, is this thing right now and thus
HU we do this, for we know that we ve gotta, communicate to moms and doubts across amerika because they are the people that really matter. Well, it's a pleasure for me
to talk to somebody that knows what to do it in operation,
you taken time. I know you stayed over to do this like saving
save one and we're gonna save a whole lot more than that. With this conversation, I upset. Thank you. So much of the film appreciated a poet
over to everything that we wanted to do. We are so grateful to you for using the platform- the? U have to elevate the voices of those of us who are two of the next generation of those fighting tipp to have a better, be no more
is more harmonious america with people hook, people can just live their lives and be the most they can
and you ve been doing that for a long time, and we are grateful to you for giving us your platform to hear of the next.
I'm too will do this again soon, thanks, like so much richer,.
Transcript generated on 2023-05-25.