Victimhood culture, a concept that originates in sociology, is today defined as a tendency of people to over-emphasize the need to protect their (sexual, gender, ethnic) identity and to present themselves as victims, even if the alleged offense was minor or only imagined. My guest today, PASTOR JAMES WARD, says that the “core conviction to overcome is the first step to shifting from victim to zero victim thinking.” We are discussing Pastor James’ book “Zero Victim: Overcoming Injustice with a New Attitude” and ways we can get out of victimhood.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This episode has brought you buy on star a late night, walk home. Getting was just for the fun of it. I'm star believes the joy of life comes from getting out there in living. It worry free, that's a feeling. Everyone deserves and what the honest, our garden app you can. It brings a power of honest our safety anywhere. You go up car or home. Onstar advisors are now with you everywhere, so make the world your safe space with onstar be safe out there, said you didn't believe in white supremacy because you didn't believe in black inferiority I dont know who the grand dragon or the grand wizard of the k k K is eminently. Is that the high as guy I love him?
as something greater in me, the love of god. In me is greater than the hatred in him favor buddy, it's dr phil, which you probably guessed that, since your own fill in the blanks today, we're talking about victim culture. The concept it originates in sociology today to find there is a tendency of people to over emphasised the need to protect them, actual gender or ethnic identity and to present themselves as victims even if the alleged offence was minor, Nobody even noticed it accept them. Maybe- it was this all in their mind, I'm very sided that my guest today is pastor James ward. He says that the core can,
Action to overcome is the first step to shifting from victim two zero victim thinking, so we're gonna talk about pastures Amy book zero victim, overcoming ingest with a new attitude and ways we can get out a victimhood and when I say get out of victimhood. It really is an escape, because this can be a prison that we get caught and in our lives it can be a way of looking at things. It can be a lifestyle. It can be an attitude of approach to how we live our lives and trust me you have an attitude of approach. Everybody has an attitude of approach. Think about it some people come into a room like a house, a fire. some people come into a room like a cool breeze. Everybody
it's an attitude or the way they approach things and it can really trap you into being a certain way. I think, pastor James has really identified something that I think can be out. come determinative in a person's life. He has written a book that is absolutely compelling and I want to mention it again before. Even let him say the first word, it is zero victim, overcoming injustice with a new attitude, so bastard James war. Thank you for being here today, thanks doktor of her having me is greater with you again and die really really now to be worthy thanks for the great work you do well, I had you on the show not too terribly long ago, and I said to lever and when I walked off there I said I m so frustrated.
Because we had other people. There said I need time to do a deep die with this man. He has so much to say that need to be heard. So I immediately wanted to sit down with you on the podcast and also want to have you back on the show. I want to have you talking to some young people as well, because yearbook couldn't be more timely, congrats nations, our national book. By the way, I am for me, tell her body. That's. This thing in that watching we also have a lovely white sharon's with you today. So share welcomes iceberg. Endure the two of us lotta shiny heads over here, but what caused you to write this particular book? Pastor, Well, it is really yum something that sprang from my own life in just the back story, a group and tuscaloosa alabama and in the south end dumb down
and it was just an understanding. Number will understanding that black people and white people didn't get along. That was the culture therein. That was further clarified by the fact geographically, that tuscaloosa, my home town, is divided by the black warrior river and it was like the white folks were on the north side of the town and a black before this outside and you just in cross the river. I remember going into third grade at the tail end of integration when, we got the news that we were going to be bust till the white side of town. I really don't recall All in my mind, seeing a white student few teaches at our black school, Were white but I really don't recall seeing a white student until I was bus to the north side to go to school,
on the way to the north side. Now you cross the river there's a geography change. I noticed that the homes were very well. The laws were very well manicure, they hedges were trimmed. The streets were clean the different whirl and something on the inside of me initially said I I belong on this on this site. Tat. You know like you're out as I gymnasia your outsize are catching up with with european size. You know which has a lot to do even with vigil victim thinking being perpetuate just environment, but once we get to the new school chalk. Boards are nice and clean. The the building is well lit, fresh paint or the playground equipment work,
but on the inside I was saying you know what there's gonna be some racial problem, because black is awake. He is supposed to interact at a great teacher who was on having to be afraid of my grandmother's southern southern Amy pastor. She was the wife of a southern pastor and she happened to be met there, a great teacher, but she was the most refined stately black woman. I ever met and She would do something that was revolutionary. She would put our names on a boar whenever we did well in class not for punitive reasons, but whenever we did well, she would put our names up. I note That's my name was on the board. Quite often is something was happening on the inside of me in and really by providence in third grade I hit me that the white gears around me warrant against me and they weren't keeping me from doing well and school, and from that point the seat was play
it in my mind that I didn't believe in white supremacy, because I didn't believe in black inferiority, I understood and third grade, that intrinsic worth, knowing my identity, knowing what I was capable of. I could not be robbed of that because of the perceptions of the people that were around me and that was the sea. Weed and that really began to kind of shape my life when I experienced what I call zero bit dim relationships all throughout my life. A healthy quality relationships with people of all ethnicity. and are you know, a few years later, many years later, the matter fact that was workin eta at a church and the south suburbs, which is a church our past her now and we took on an attitude or no assessment and in that attitude in a less met, one of the categories it great it. The degree to which you saw yourself as a victim. My score comes back as euro and are eventually the guy who facilitated the.
The the assessment say you know I need to talk. I've never seen any by score zero in the area of victim thinking. Where did that come from how? How did you approach life? You know what is your thinking and explained to him what happened to me and third great, when I was really liberated and freed from understanding in believing that the people I could marginalize my life now, that's not to say that we don't have a number of challenges in our society and broken systems. Of course we do broken, broken people create broken systems, but not being a victim of the system and knowing that and the things that are in me, what god has placed in me who I am those are much much more powerful forces than the opposition that come yes, I mean, I think, that's the the premise of zero victim. I said imagine what people could do in life if they did not believe that they were victims. Of course, things happened in a world of course, enemy s run it ready for you
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believe in white supremacy. because you didn't believe in black inferiority. Do you think have to have one to have the other, do you think that the black man, the black? among the black child has to be- and still with a feeling of inferiority for white supremacy the terrain. You have, you have to buy it at some point and I'm not saying that there are not legitimate instances of folks that you interact with that communicate that are sometimes you in a situation where they are in equities in terms of power and privilege in those kinds of things absolutely. But you have to participate at some point. You ve gotta, believe it and embrace it fort the operative in your life. I would tell our charge for years. I dont know who the grand dragon or the grand wizard of the k k K is eminently. Is that the highest guy? I love him
he has problems. He has a number of different things that he needs to work out in his life, but as far as james war, it I love him. I care bottom have empathy because of the problematic thoughts and sentiments daddy has there's something greater in me. The love of god and me is greater than the hatred in him. I would never allow him to be in power over me for his hatred for me to undermine my love for him. That's the power of zero victims. But that's not to say that we'd give him a pass or justify anything that he does in his actions. But there's something in me that is greater than the hatred. That's in him. If, if we could ever get that message, I think is revolutionary and is a game changer to the things we're dealing with, and that's why I think: ok, so well written and so timely, I'm of great student of thomas soul, who is part of the hoover project at stanford university, and he
talks about a lot of systemic racism, and he says some of what you're saying in it. You to buy into it. He's not saying that it's not built in to society, but that you have to be willing to bend to it in order for it to have agency in your life and work You're saying: is you ve ever body into the? that you were inferior in some way they may condescend to you. They may try to close the door to you. They met try and hold you back, but it's up to you to accept or reject that this desk, doktor. When you, when you know your identity, you cannot possibly convinced be convinced that you or something or someone other than who you know you are. If you drive
There's me that I'm an automobile right now. I would think that you're say not not me, and so when I, when I have a grasp of my identity, no that I've been made, an image of god every whom has been made in the image of god, the imago day. When I understand that you rob or disempower other people, in terms of their rights and their capacity to define or to redefine whenever you give the power to defy you, ve, given up daddy, you ve, given away your soul, you ve given away your a future, your perceptions mind your emotions. Everything has been sold when you give the power to define, and I think that individuals we've gotten away from, really understanding identity. I think that that there is no freedom from victim thinking without faith. I think faith has a tremendous role in his central role in understanding it, but it will. It comes back to the to the the
identity of who and individual is and not feeling that you'd been defined by situations or circumstances victimization, happens in life, is that is an event that happens in life, but victim thinking has to do with the residual effect of that victimization debt. Is inevitable in his isn't elongated period of time that you are living in the aftermath of a bit of a traumatic that happened in your life, we can control. Victimization is part of life. The willows a hostile world, but how we respond to those things, is our responsibility. Don't deny the fact that you and share and might go to buy a house, and they might turn you away because of your skin color or you might go to sell a house and get to percent less for it because you're a black couple, they say well we're gonna praise this for twenty eight
five percent less, which we know, exists because redline incorrect in the real estate industry of red three, four articles on that just this week for show we're doing to out that is still happening. so you're saying that can happen, we can be victimized by that buddy We then walk away from that and allow it to color the field through which we see the world from that point on, that's our choice that's correct, yeah, that's where victim comes here that we begin to see things through a victim lands and begin to take on the role of victimhood. Yet because after that, answer then, who really loses is not the victim miser is the victim and they the intensity that I have for. communicating the zero victim message is because victimization happen
and so is not a denial at all. You know, folks, I'm gonna misunderstood my premise. In some cases you know you just gotta, acknowledge that you don't like now is that things happen in europe, racism and systemic it. No I ignored is it the exist, which is exactly why we need to get prepare mentally, spiritually and emotionally to deal with those things out as a pastor, I have often said that I have discovered at the people who do well in life people who learned to manage their challenges. Well, because the challenges are inevitable. Pitfalls of victimization there, an audible, inevitable. I say at the a same problem is not a skin problem, so an infection and the human heart that makes people discriminate discriminating, treat each other the way that we do in it as little to do with skin color I from a biblical standpoint. Let's go back the genesis for when kane killed his own brother, able say, mother, same ethnicity, same race, and you see an expression
question of sin and wickedness in his heart. So I say it's a sin problem, not a skin problem when we're empowered to to deal with the problems and the injustice in the inequities that we're dealing with in life. It gives us opportunity to be be victorious over, though. So, let's go back to that, didn't we use in terms of the home, the victim miser, sure there's discrimination, something some kind of injustice has been committed against me because I was not able to purchase a home at that time with apart price tag but I'm not going to a perpetually, allow my children at my grandchildren to suffer at the hands of somebody the miser. I will not given that kind of power and that kind of myth or authority to do to control my destiny, and I am I am I giving any justified asian to the fact that to happen, absolutely not, it should be dealt with, but want to deny the opportunity to control my life ass, the power of zero victim thinking. Well, I didn't read: you in the book is being a denier at all.
All being naive at all, seeing the world through rose glasses at all, or asking your raider to do the same. In fact, I read- you were saying this is real. This happens, so you better, get ready for an check your mind. In fact, you say in the book that people with a victimhood men reality are undisciplined thinker. Think is how you referred to it as undisciplined thinkers you're, not check in your thinking, you're late, somebody else control your thinking, you're, not being disciplined in your thinking and discipline emotionally right. I talk about that as well, which I think is a is a conversation is not happening and I just want to be clear- were not being condescending too. people at all, but I think that that on people who are undisciplined emotionally
all over the nation right now. I think that this is the problem. I dont think that that times are getting harder. I think people are getting weaker in some some situations. I I think that were we're not conditioning and tempering our hearts and our minds to deal with the things we're we're facing off with victim mentality right now, it's it's like being in a maximum security prison with no walls and now we're creating safe spaces and all these kinds of things with people to retreat to, because we're not building better people were not we're. Not tampering emotional thresholds, you know and those in the workforce and they will check or reza may where'd you go to school. How did you score and l sat Gee mad the geometry, but we're not checking emotionally. Our people tempered and strong from an emotional standpoint, as I just think esa is- is a core does not being addressed were silent on the issue.
In society and we're saying victim thinking is now becoming the soil from which all other division, all other political. Vitriol, all their hatred all day, the the exasperated racism and the conflagration of emotions in our nation is all growing from the soil. The very far soil of victim thinking and not just an aerial raise I'd therewith with women who have been molested who ve gone through situations. Were they been abused? We deal with folks who are dealing with the boers and gone through bank roughly in any situation victim thinking, it becomes like a like a maximum security prison present with no walls and my head It is to see people free to see people liberate liberated, to live in the dignity to live out, the fullness of god's call for their life, and it has everything to do with their perspective and how they manage the the emotions. I I say that that emotions now have become
the term emotional aid wmd these emotional weapons of mass destruction, and I think we're saying that on a cataclysmic set the scale and our nation writing Well, I think you're right about what you're saying whirling said really jumped out at me you said was that we want see a better nation. We must start by create. in better stronger people I see themselves as victims, and I worry right now when I see what's happening in schools. Both through twelve and in universities that we our coddling that we're not preparing students for the real world, because we're like you said, is like the prison without walls We ve got students now at some of the top universities in the country, actual result comes back that they don't like and
their creating safe places for them to decompress. We have some universities, that have brought in puppies for them too hold, so they can not be anxious and we have the students that are getting tenured professors, discipline suspended fired because their offended by of their ideology. I thought we went to the university to hear other people's born a view as great too steel ourselves against things we didn't believe or to be influenced by something we hadn't considered before now. I've seen studies anywhere from fifteen Eighty percent of students think it's ok to yale day on a speaker. disagrees with you and complaining of their ass to take the
other side of an argument on a final exam, the side don't agree with an army that side to show that they ve studied both sides of something they go. the danish complain and professor ones up getting disciplined or suspended or dismissed we're not preparing strong people, because when you get out into the dog eat dog world where there is a lot of dogs after them bones You better be tough and ready to go and not whining and being a victim where you say you've been damaged, you say, you've been hurt, yeah, that's correct and I and I think we're we're. I mean actually as ironic he mentioned the university campus were being unintelligent in terms of how we deal with challenges and victimization in life. I mean a simple premise and I look at it three ways: they are the the facts of victimization. They are the feelings of victim.
Innovation in there are the philosophies of victimization. So very, very briefly. The facts of victimization means that you analyze the situations and circumstances that you're dealing with intelligently, but then you also have to ask the question if, if I'm being victimized, if I'm experiencing this, ah this this victimization in my own life
was it. Was it some of me and was it some of my victimize? It was mostly them were lit a bit of me or let a bit of me in some of the when you talk about the facts of victim asean in most situations when you analyze, what actually transpire is not is not as bad as is argument. It is not as bad as what you how you feel it to be so number one. We have to talk about the fact that the commission and the honest about those and be truthful, john, eight. Thirty, two from a biblical standpoint, is that you should know the true and a truce to make you free. We got to start with the true and the facts of determination. Number two: there are feelings of victimization now you're talking about my emotional response, which is absolutely subjective. In that
go anywhere in any number of different directions. I think we're were encouraging. The feelings of victim position were not putting any premium on the facts of victim asean and then thoroughly that leads to philosophies of victimization. That now is being taught his being marketed, is being politicize is being wept.
Nice and you are now saying a growing movement that that is being pushed in terms of the victim narrative. I think that that many politicians have recognised that the greatest political capital and our nation right now is victim thinking that, if you can, if you can politicizing weapon eyes it and make a group of people believe that the other party made you a victim and my party is gonna, save you from big victim who it creates a code dependency that that people will vote and you'll win. Landslide elections are date, not speaking to any political group. I'm just telling you the power of politicizing weapon. Icing victimization is happening in our society. The facts of intimidation, the feelings of illinois bit immigration and the philosophies, a big victimization and the universe. The camp was his exit.
equally, where we should be addressing these issues as well as charges that think that passes like myself, have a tremendous role to play and how we deal with this is that the sound is back to you by KPMG e, at keeping Angie. innovation is the go to state of mind their visionary fingers and advanced technology. Help you see beyond the now uncover new insights and turn them into opportunities kpmg. help you leverage the value of data and drive transformational outcomes through innovation to explore their thinking go. To K, p m g dot. U s check her out. I've got a secret with robin mcgraw, with Eric beauty bar known as the flourish to the stars and king of roses. Designing opulent arrangements for a listers
leap. Fashion houses and luminaries around the world are robin and Eric talk about some of his most over the top celebrity flower arrangements and his experience with grabbing on the life beautiful opportunities that you don't want to miss this be sure to subscribe, follow and listen to apple podcast, spotify, How ever your listening? Now, while I think you're exactly right about victimizing, I read an article today from the wall street journal and analyse saying that that's how trump got elected. That he came along and addressed a lot of white men who had lost a lot of opportunities over the last twenty or thirty years, that in that Sixty five there was one woman I believe it was in the harvard medical school graduating class was either
Women are one black fast forward. Like forty years, and there were like forty seven, which mean there were forty, seven less white man in that group, so he addressed all of these sort of things that nobody had been saying- and here are all of these guys that are supposedly the ones with a man's world, privilege white, privileged male privilege who couldn T. Like they were able to. wine or complain in here somebody's whining and complaining for them, and they all jumped on that bandwagon cause. They wanted to be victims but didn't feel like they could complain in He gave him the opportunity to weapon eyes that victimised. action and they jumped onto bandwagon. I'm talking to pastor James ward and eve eve. This started pay,
tension or listing he is the author of zero victim. Overcoming injustice with a new attitude and the attitude is own, your we're through this live on your feelings, own, your thinking own, your choices that you don't have to step into the victim, Oh, you can reject that. Let me say very clearly He is not denying that there is systemic racism. He is not denying that there are people out there that will victimize you. He is not denying that there are certain Fancies are situations that will prey upon you and you. Don't have a choice about that. What we say is you have a complete choice about what you do about it. What do you say to yourself?
bout it, whether you put it on and where it like a coat or what you throw it often say I'm going to choose how I react to this. They are statement very, very fair, accurate, zero bit them thinking is preventative is pre emptive, I use an analogy to describe how how victim thinking why and I use the analogy of baseball and I like to say that the sure is a really really bad guy because he throws this object as raw heart at a hundred miles an hour at this, the guy behind home plate. That's that's not a nice thing to do and let's just say that the catch. Your now on the receiving end of this, this projectile, this light burning. Projectile, that's coming his way. If he is unfair,
text it unaware and on prepare. He could easily lose his life with a baseball being thrown him and a hundred miles an hour, but because he prepares because he preconditions his mind. He takes the proper stance he puts on a ripe protective equipment. He stretched out his hand in anticipation and of the pitch that's coming his way in what was potentially a life threatening threatening situation has now become america's favorite pastime is a sport to him. Why? Because he manages the problem that is coming. That is how I describe the the the a city of the precondition in your my to develop a zero bit. The mindset the pitches are gonna come the big innovation is gonna come through relationship through the work experience. This is something universal. They only qualification. You need to be victimized to be born. It happens to people.
all over. I talk to a number of folks who emigrate some other country countries who are saying you don't understand. Victimization in american, when you haven't had a tyrannical government and a dictator and is so there's just is part of life, the world's a hostile place, but again the way that we prepare and precondition are maya to deal with those things determine whether or not they have effects on us at all, and that is my. That is my courage. You make you mentioned the the power of attitude and why I I acknowledge the the internal discipline, the emotion of discipline as needed? I use another analogy. You know I I I love college football of alabama football. You know what it makes me happy when my team winds. What, but, if my team loses I'm unhappy about it, but it doesn't rob me of my joy. My joy is a separate. an independent from whether or not my team winds or loses so
happy of my team winds and I'm joyful, but if my team loses I'm unhappy, but that doesn't mean I am I'm and joyful. What's the difference? Happiness is as a result based upon external circumstances, but joy is in internal unchangeable reality. The same thing is true with freedom. The same thing is true: with zero victim thinking. We got a bit better people and equip people. I think they should be taught in the school system that think it should be taught in charges that we gotta help folks be equipped to face off with the challenges that were that were all facing and are really really began to But this in the right, the right framework. You showed something that I thought was really really interesting, and I hope people hear this in an action oriented way. You said Everything we know something we learned. Let's think about that, because that's a simple, statement. But it's really profound.
Anything this been learned can be unlearned, correct and anything there. we ve learned weaken, realer and we can add to it- we can change it and if somebody has a victim technology. They have a way of going through life with a chip on their shoulder? They have a way of being pessimistic or paranoid or negative eve in any way they ve learned that has been reached forced on them in some way. Maybe it was there, parents. Maybe it was the people they hung out with. Maybe it was just what they ed themselves about things that happened in her life, but it's not. Going to get you anywhere. It's not gonna get you to
place in your life, where you can feel safe and at peace and have joy like you're talking about For example, I always say when you see people that are angry, thus It's an outward manifestation of hurt, fear and frustration, you look past the anger You will see that this person is hurt. Like a corner. The animal is like they're afraid and what I people to hear you saying what I Young men to hear you saying is: okay, wait. I I continue to do what I'm doing, but. play this movie out till the end. What if I continue to have a chip on my shoulder? What if I continue to play the victim? What have I continue to feel
put upon and be the angry young black man. Ok, where's that edit where's that gonna get you as opposed to saying wait a minute. I'm smart am able bodied am capable I can choose my own course here. Those are two different paths that have two different destiny. and in the destination you're advocating is to star in your own life, to write your own script and get where you want to go instead of where somebody setting you up to be nice grant yet, but they don t that in schools. We barely tee reading writing and arithmetic, let alone to deal with the challenges of life, the disappointments, the conflict, the frost patients. We don't really teach that at any
Level in school which I advocate for, but they don't seem to do it much here yeah. You know, god created us to live life from the inside out, not from the outside in if, if any person is subject to living life from the outside and based upon extra, no circumstances, your life would be accosting, yo yo and you will never have peace. You'll, never have peace of mind. You never experience, emotion peace. When you live in response to the external stimuli, I've studied viktor frankl alone, a bit and austrian holocaust survivor and down, he makes a statement
between every stimulus and ever response. There's a space and I've ab embraced that idea and taken a little further and zero victim message and saying that life is feel with stimulus in every situation. But here's a thinking here they idea a victim thinker- will react by reflex. A zero victim thinker will respond by reason. So, in other words is always a stimulus is always a triggered is always an injustice is something had happened that took that took place as there will always be. Victimization in life is part of life, but a victim thinker will react by reflex and before you know it, you just react in a certain way. Emotionally I say that is important for us to act intelligently and not react
mostly in any situation, but is there a victim thinker instead of reacting by reflex as you of them think a will respond will respond by reason. There is a big difference between reacting and responding to things that happen to us and life and here's the fall out victimization in life. When we talk about it being learn and is something that its acquired over time. You know the main victim thinker sees himself as a negative receives recipient is a condition mindset that you see yourself as a negative recipient of the thoughts worse for acts as a people of circumstances, and here is the problem with it. Dictum thinking works like a set of lenses. That much you put. Those lines is, are you will literally reed victimization and to everything that happens to you and life. I thought when young women that maybe maybe a dating situation when bad a few times, you know what every potential new guy that comes along,
the deal with all the trauma and all the issues of the bad guys. You know what who suffers use. You remain single. all of your life, because you will read victimization at the conversations what he did do he didn't complex may heat into all these kinds of things, and you will literally began to read victimization into your life, which defines the trajectory of your life, If, for the remainder you of your life and it works, multi generationally, the cycle has to be broken. So my encouragement to people is to is to get free so that you can also set up the folks that come after you to walk in that same freedom, be the moses in your life, be the most in your family to come out of egypt into a set a new trajectory to get to to the place that god has for you. You bring up such a good point, it takes creating some space. Viktor Frankl, his book man, search for meaning, is an introduction. Logo therapy is the best half book. I've ever read not a big fan, a logo therapy, but the
half of that book. Man Search for meeting is one of the most profound, probably given away to three hundred copies of the book, but ie talks about that, creating that space because he said that they took away. Breathing in concentration camps. They can control whether I see it stand each starve live die, but they can't control the attitude I take about it and set as the one thing they can't troll is the attitude I take about it. That's what you're saying is review, creates from spy so not dis. Knee jerk react to this, and in that space you can respond. stead of react. I had a mother and her two sons on some time ago, some young black teenagers and good lookin kids, and they were talking about the
been out in the evening when imperatively light, but they were at a fast food restaurant. The couple a cops came in and started. hassling them and, as it turned out as this was looked into and verified early for no reason they were just guilt, of being hungry while black. So they were it not to drive through, but inside, giving some food and they were real angry when they were here and said. What should we do and, thus I gave them was you should do exactly what those cops tell you
They have badges and you have to defer to the badge they have guns. They have agency they of authority and your job. You have one job and that today home to your mother alive tonight and encounter in that fast food restaurant is most dangerous. Five minutes of your life, your job, mr get home alive to your mother, you ve got to pick your battles. You ve got to pick your battlefields. You ve got to pick your battle tie right and your job is to get home alive. Now you get up the next morning, you can go down to the precinct. You can file a complaint. You can get those security, tat,
You can do whatever you want and trust me. Those police departments pay out millions of dollars a year for misconduct. You pick your battles, you pick your battle times your battle, deals, but you get home alive, that's what you needed to do and they did barely in that situation and that's what you're talking about make a response, not only action if they were right They didn't need to be right fighters, they needed to get home alive to their mother and her mother just burst into tears. Saying, oh, my god. Thank you. Thank you You write tell letter to my boys. They had a choice this this a real scenario, and in doctor I've been in position. My cell argued I'll, give you a story that firms, everything that you're saying you know we we move recently, but before we lived in the northwest suburbs of chicago, pretty pretty nice area and dumb what somewhat isolated, knowing the folks that live in it and that community- or you know
you have done well in life where they only folks ago in an area every year we have is turkey, try solely as a a if I have Kay ryan through our neighborhood. Everybody in the neighborhood knows that the streets are going to be blocked off and arenas are going to be there. So I wake up on a saturday morning. Go to EL club go work out. Coming back to the turkey trot is happening. There are checkpoints with police officers to get back to my house. I kid you not the first checkpoint I come to was a police officer. of asian descent. Sir, do you live in his neighborhood? Yes, I do ok stay. The left side of the road watch out for the runners be saved. Thank you so much, sir. I get to the next check point as a black police officer. I m not kid hearing the boy well he's I was it you live in his neighbours are, I do be safe watch out, for, though the runners have a great day I get to the third check points have already been through. So there's gotta be a breeze I get to that, their checkpoint, a white police officer.
as if he has an angry look on his face. As he sees me approach now, I'm watching other cars before me go on around the block. I get to him thinking, there's going to be a basic piece of cake good morning, sir, how you doing he's looking at me with. This day and on his face? He live in his neighborhood said. Yes, I do what street a you have on a name, my street? How far down that street I had described him where my, where my street was honest, mom that that you talk about the victimization. Will you know all is rising, the temperature gate is going up and then he says let We see your driver's license not been through to check points described you accurately. Where I live. Let me see your driver's license. He sees my driver's license, looks at him to prove that I lived there. He kind of throws him back to me and says watch out for the runners now at this point, I'm saying clearly, this man has a problem with me being a black guy living in this car.
Nice neighborhood to your point. But a zero victim mindset and me over was there to override the should a reaction that I could have had. That was right around the time I think lukewarm mcdonnel had been shot in the city chicago. So I mean this is such a god. What kind of a powder keg but is that space that I was able to operate in to respond with reason and not react by reflex, because you said the guy, he has a badge and a gun and the and the state has given him the authority to use it. If I respond, if I react a certain way, thus a dangerous situation, so it happens and again I want. I want equip as many people as I can, especially in this area, with a zero victim. The written mindset Been cramps a good friend of mine and we worked together in an ocean was goswell Jaeger blake's you here we ve done
most of the really high profile tragedies and we ve worked together for years of talked him about that, and he said please give added. As if we judge you get it you're, saying it better than I, but it's so important, If you don't have that victim mindset then need. Is that you, this is me you got a problem, I don't you gonna go on. You said males it really jumped out at me. You said spiritual awakening, seeks to forgive, cultural woke miss seeks to blame talk about their love. It yes other. This Where we are the nation, I do believe that this is one of the event Judges and maybe the just the timing of was happening as decided. I'm grateful to be a pastor.
I like to say that I am called to speak at the intersection of spirituality, an intersection reality, all the challenges that we are experiencing in society at a growing as because of inner sexuality that all these different Qualities that are starting to intercept- and we all know you know- for the listeners that may not understand It- sexuality is a bad innocent, can have some intersection of traffic accidents happen, because the visibility is bad in number different things and so, where spirituality meets entered in a section allergy as sharon, and I believe, the god of cod as to be America's pastors to stand at that point, to help us understand where spirituality, mace, anna sexuality, there is a spiritual component as a faith component. I can really talk about again. The. the the the hot the human heart than when we deal with was happening in society, whether as a police officer or any personnel and abuse
you're a victim eyes at a community commits some kind of injustice is a hard issue march up to seventy. This is evil comes from the human heart it comes from within. We have to deal with the spiritual side of that, I like to say from a social, standpoint that spiritual law every society is governed by three kinds of law, spiritual law, moral law and civil law. Wherever you go, those three laws govern society. I like to say that spiritual, law is the father, moral law is the mother and they conceived to give birth to a child car civil law. We can not fix the problems. The people problems in our society what sir laws. Civil law is not intended to make better people. I have a good friend who is a form of police chief, and I will tell him if I do. My job will spur Morally it'll make your job a whole lot easier. We got it, we got a deal with people and here's the
You, civil law, is incapable of making better people you can't produce better people with civil law is not intended to do that, and so I think that this conversation about the role of future law and moral law in shaping our society. I think has been underserved, and I do think that that is where, as pastors, we can speak into that space in show business It's not that we're here to force everybody in america to become a christian or to practice a certain religion. You know, that's wonderful! I that's my prayer as a christian and a pastor, I want to see everyone come to faith in Christ, but that's not the intent even of the scriptures to force people to legislate that people practice a certain faith, but you cannot solve and deal with the wickedness and the evil. That is obvious in our society, in our society, without dealing with faith and without dealing with spiritual and moral moral law, and I think we've got to reintroduce that conversation, and that is why I talk about the zero victim mindset from a faith perspective. I'll, give you the bottom
miss when I bought a my premise when I talk about zero bit the mindset in the role of faith think about the life of Jesus Christ himself, the only innocent man had ever lived suffered. The greatest injustice that world has ever known of being brutally crucify for someone else's sands. and while in the process of steel being victimized he's already praying in exercising the power, love and forgiveness, giving father forgive them get this for they dont know what there doing- and I like to remind us doctor that every injustice in society- as a lesser infraction and a lesser injustice, then that injustice and so the power of love forgiveness, the power of unity. We ve, not, we ve not dealt on that side of the ledger. In dealing with the problems that were saying in society, but will never give their if we don't start with a zero victim mindset, I like to say to you
I'm thinking a cause of folks out of their end zone to the fifty yard line for us to begin once again have ghost conversations about facts of victimization feelings of victimization in the philosophies of victimization. There. kind of thinking that you're describing would go a long way to getting the d I signals in this country. To narrow to bring people to a willingness to start talking to people have a different position on some of these core issues right now, because right now seeing people that disagree with us as the enemy just somebody disagrees with us, but the enemy and enemies or people that we see as a packing us taking advantage of us doing bad things to us and them No way you can do that unless you see yourself as being under attack. I think it's terrible that we ve got
the point where we really do see anybody that disagrees with us as an enemy- and I know people This is the worst is ever been in america. They forget about the civil war so my figure gallo but worse there, was around when we had the demonstrations since vietnam, and I think we were as close to this country, melting down, then probably as we ve ever been so there have been other times and we seem to have come out. decided that may be better at least ok, but I dont know that weave put on her victim hats and painted our counterparts his enemy as much as we do now. I think what you are saying is really important to say list is less talk this through. Let's, It's really share and it goes back to what we are talking about. We need stronger people where we don't have to,
feel so threatened every step of the way and in theirs it does a greater tragedy. Doktor feel I'm glad you mentioned a civil war has another spiritual principle. When I talk about so furthermore, a lot Jesus as this one divided against itself. It won't stand and at some point we have to recognise that the division and our nation will eventually become an irreversible, I'm a greater problem that now we're talking about the the the essence of our nation now can get him. blow it I'm gonna want our nation can literally implode if we don't get a grip on. A division has taken place and zero. Thinking neutralizes that so that we can at least be civil, am respectful and intelligent about our these discourse to to respond by reason to these challenges. I have no doubt in my mind that we are sensible and intelligent enough to solve every problem, we're dealing with an american
I dont believe that were some kind of specimens and ended in a test lab to Jeff react to whatever happens live guy created as in his aim, is to be very, I tell you. I think we were more than capable of solving the issue that we need to in life, but again as such, an email general visceral reaction has been monetize weapon, ass, politicize, whose whose guy in from the division in our society, that's another question. It has to be asked, but I think there's no debts. a question at all that we can address these issues if we can ever sit down from zero bit in perspective. You will have a debate and in walk off the senate floor and Go have lunch with your adversary and come back, and the comment I get now. Well, if it's all the same to you, I don't want to go: have lunch with a baby killer? Well, ok, I understand, but let's fine, maybe a place to start
We don't have to go there on the first sandwich. That's right! Let's find a place to at least at each other with dignity and respect you, and maybe we can find something that we can both live with. Here's, why? I think what you're talking about particularly from a spirit your standpoint- am, I know, you're being careful- do not hit that too hard. I don't think you're apologizing for it, but I Thank you. Don't want to exclude anyone. If somebody is not a chris in which I am, and I don't apologize for either. But if you're not a christian and your listening to this, don't let that turn you off, because the lessons here are applicable. Whatever your belief system is when I think about this may put my psychology head on,
a minute in the it I'm talking about is faster james wars. Book zero victim over coming and justice with a new attitude that sounds like a shameless plug, it is it's a third or fourth, what I've done, because I'm a big believer in his mindset and his book. It is well written to page turner. Its authentic he's lived it he does live. It is not some theoretical treaties, it's very readable and the understandable, but, looking at this from a psychological standpoint, if we look at violence, for example,. You go into a were heard in chicago away. new york or whatever. And it also earlier violent neighborhoods
You can identify. Neighborhoods, where the violence is located, but research tells us within that neighbourhood there are locations, then a neighborhood where most of the violence is centred you can go into a few city blocks. and you can find portions of blocks where there are micro locations and you can identify sometimes what you can count on both hands. Where the perpetual four eighty or ninety percent of the violence, among bad actors. You can count on both hands be six. Eight ten people in a micro, focused area
within a neighborhood. That means, if the right people, the police officers the social workers, the parole officer, probation officers, can get this mentality ends sit down with those young man and they are men and they are young and they are identifiable. Will we know who they are? We know whose doing what they're doing and get this across to them. That they do have a choice in its them. It needs to take off the glasses. that see the world in this way significant change, just can be made with a relatively small number of people in every community. That's correct as we know who they are. We know where they are and you're talking about, I they need to embrace. If they will then the whole
dinner of the neighborhood can change soon it when we take them out and we incarcerate them, but they too to come back or somebody tends to come up in their place. Buddy of instead of doing that, you choose in their leadership. You change their influence than you can change the tenor of the whole neighborhood and doktor. I add one more component to that which I am the greatest advocate for family. I take tremendous pride in his and being a father. So, in that same scenario, that you communicating- and maybe this is a completely different show- we have to talk about- role of the family and the role of fathers in the home and fathers having a zero victim mindset to to teach
Our children is really amazing that the bible, even though women carry the baby and nurture the baby, the bible the bible tells far Here's to raise your children up in the urgent admonition of the lord and don't exasperate them, don't provoked him, the rat. It was god intended for the fathers to be the educate and to define in the home, is so another missing conversation with victim thinking in the challenges that was saying and our in our society is we're not really. Dressing, the role and the importance of far of fathers and building strong families now the second, the second part of that, when we talk about you, know just eat the attitude overall attitude of victim victim thinking. We travel we to travel the nation in inner even internationally. Quite a bit, I get to meet me but from all over america- and I am amazed at the common denominators of of decency living-
life a quality life that most people in america. What the exact same thing when you talk about those micro pockets, those you know those those small areas where you're saying trouble come from those areas. I think the same thing is happening a nation with the division that it's not widespread across the nation. The nation is not as divide as were being come. You know taught in oh that it really is most people, I think, of unified. You fight around the common denominators, good old fashioned life, liberty and april of happiness. I why my one criticism of thomas Thomas jefferson, I said he got the order wrong. Instead of life living in pursuit of happiness, it should be liberty, the pursuit of happiness and life. I think everything starts with being free and once you a free, you are now free. You have the liberty for the pursuit of happiness and, as you pursue happiness in life, it creates a life for you, that's the power of zero victim thinking that any person who was so,
the victim thinking. You don't have a life you're, not free you not able to pursue your goals, your calling you lose the dignity of of being. Who guy create a you to be to give your best to be your best, not only yourself in your family before you community, don't deprive the world of the greatness in the great potential. That is in sight you because you are living subject to victim thinking, I really want to see a mass liberation take place and see this broken over our Should I think it'll it'll lead us to a place that will benefit and in ways that we never will never imagined before and that's where forgiveness comes in? Yes, you can't do it if you're angry and I didn't have the greatest role model, because my father was a really bad alcoholic and gone lot. That's where faith in the bible came in for me, because That's where I learned about the role of men in the family to be a provider protector.
A teacher and a leader once you gotta, have that written on this lady, your brain, then you can't think my jobs well defined. I can't learn. That's his left side, if into pin wherever you were taught it. You couldn't be more right about the fathers and in many of these situations are sadly incarcerated. Yoga did so so they buy to your point. Many of the young man is go back to justice qana cycle of saying you know young black men with these encounters with why police officers and menacing awakens, though young man there first encounter with any kind of authority figure is with that point service- and it was never intended to be that way grow up with an encounter with an authority figure in the home. The dad is god's police officer, your first police officer in the first disciplinarian is the father and a home with you have kids a grown up that they have not heard of. While home and you put them- you know a car
integration with the ultimate authorities does never gonna turn out turn out where ever been programme before they ever get. There will pastor I have kept you wait longer than we bargain for, and I could talk to you forever. Pasture James wards book is zero victim. You ve heard me talk about it time and again, as we've been going through this, I highly recommend it. It's overcoming injustice with a new attitude and the important thing is that puts the onus on you, because, You can choose your attitude. You can choose what you say. You can choose what you do in every city, nation, and he advocates strongly that you create a space to really give your self an opportunity to respond instead, of just react. Mattel there's a lot of verbs in these sentences in here. This is not theory. It's about action!
and I highly recommend it gotta, be dealing with a lot of what you talk about here throughout the after this season and year, and I hope we can get you back with us again to talk to some of these people that
will benefit from this and intervene with some of these stores. I know how busy you know how much you travel, but it would really be great to get you back in here again to get you on the stage again and be minor. My minor my pleasure, thank you so much sharon. Thank you for shouldn't. Through this everybody I mean, and I make and where the hosts of in the scenes behind plain sight, a reward. Podcast for a tv show you may have forgotten, or maybe it never existed, will reward all five seasons episode by episode and we hope you'll join us or maybe we never existed. This law makes sense, or maybe it won't when you listen to in the scenes behind plain sight, wherever you get your pipe.
Transcript generated on 2022-12-08.