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Episode #011 ... The Hellenistic Age Pt. 2 - The Early Stoa and the Cynics

2013-12-06 | 🔗

This is the first of two episodes on Stoicism; in this episode, we learn about stoic physics and logic. We learn how the Stoics would likely react if faced with a zombie apocalypse and how a shipwreck caused a guy named Zeno to start dabbling in philosophy. We also learn about Diogenes, a man who lived in a tub, urinated in public, barked at passersby, and somehow managed to be envied by Alexander the Great. Finally, we find out what John Locke, Charlie Pace and a wild boar from LOST have to do with Stoic philosophy. All this and more on the latest episode of Philosophize This!

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
For more information about this or any episode of the podcast check out the website that philosophy, rise this dialogue, we have additional content further reading, And scripts of every show. All free, of course, But if you value the shows an educational resource and you want to help keep it going, you can find got more about how to do that at patriarch, dot com, slash philosophize this or alter, actively for buying something from Amazon this week, anyway. Consent clicking through our banner it's at the bottom center of the landing page of philosophize. This org small percentage goes back to the show. It may just be a click for you, but every little bit adds up key for wanting to know more today than you did yesterday- and I hope you have a show stoicism is typically broken down into three parts: logic: physics:
in ethics. The chronology of its initial development in the hellenistic age is also typically broken down into three parts: the early stoa, middle, stoa and late Stoa, each phase of its development made notable breakthroughs in different areas, but it's important to note a few things. By far the most popular and most notable thinkers of the stoic school are three people Seneca, Marcus, Aurelius and Epictetus. Unfortunately, they didn't live during the early or middle still a periods. All three of them made their contributions during the late store and they didn't drastically change logic or physics. All three of them made their greatest contributions in the field of ethics, talk about the ideas of these three men alone would be a very pigeonholed view of stoicism, but on the other hand, to do an entire episode on each one of them would be filled with redundancy because two thirds.
Their entire philosophy, is almost exactly the same as the other two guys, because of this next episode will be almost solely dedicated to understanding stoic ethics and the great ideas the three of those men laid out, but in the meantime, it's impossible to understand where they're coming from with their ethics without first understanding, the other two parts, logic and physics, the stoic saw logic, physics and ethics as completely interrelated independent on each other. They compared it to an egg with the three of them representing the shell, the egg yolk and the egg white respectively. All three of them, combined together serving a more complete purpose than any one of them in isolation. The things stoicism is most known for are stoic ethics and stoicism as a bridge too.
The western world dominated by Christianity. Think of today's episode as a first encounter with stoicism, because we're gonna see it later think of it as a coat of primer and an explanation of the very important groundwork of the founding of stoicism, how it evolved from cynicism and once it matured and reach the end of the early stoa, how it's well defined and well tested ideas acted as a springboard the great stoic ethics that were to come and made it possible for stoicism to ascend above the ashes of its rival philosophical schools and become the dominant philosophy of Rome. That said, there's something else I gotta say and the closer we get to modern times the less money, to say this, but the exact sourcing
of a lot of the ideas that come during the period of the early stoa are a little shaky. The ideas definitely were there. We can definitely attach these ideas to the period the problem arises when trying to assign a particular idea to a particular philosopher, three big stoic philosophers make up the early Stoa, Xeno, cleanthes and chrysippus. We don't have a single, complete work of any of these guys just fragments and the sources we do have on them, come from either later now philosophers or later hostile christian writers. If this were a perfect world, we would have all of their complete works and we could dive into all of them, but the fragments that we do have in the later commentary on all three of them, combined to make a pretty solid picture of what the founding principles of stoicism really were. We've all seen some depiction of a post postapocalyptic world in this giant media
landscape that we're all immersed in and we ve all heard those really tough guys that stack encyclopedias on the bill of their hats that their super flat? We ve all heard those guys talk about how they would be the ones to thrive. Of some huge disaster happened, but the fact of the matter is, you can't know You never know how you're gonna respond to pandemonium until your surrounded by everyone react differently. Some people do thrive. Some people curl up into the fetal position. The same thing can be said: Chaos in adversity that isn't as a media is that, like the kind that the people of the Hellenistic age found themselves and politically my dad for the very short time. I knew him always said that if he ever found himself in some zombie apocalypse or a volcanic eruption or something at the end of the world, is eminent that he just grab along chair he'd sit upon his roof with his friends, crack open a beer and just
I should all go down, watch everyone's scramble and panic will, if you put it that way, it sounds like an incredibly white trash thing to do, but if everyone finds their own way to cope with this the apocalypse anyway, removing yourself from all the stress and anxiety of that rat race of survival that probably when it all comes down to it, is going to be completely fetal anyway and just hanging out with your friends trying to relax and enjoy the spectacle of it. All I mean it really doesn't sound that bad. In fact, it sounds a little like the epicurean approach to the zombie apocalypse of the hellenistic age. You would live in a commune with your closest friends away from the busy city, not concerning yourself with things like a man, wealth or changing the world. All that stuff wasn't really going to matter much anyway. You should just relax and pursue real pleasure. Well if the epicurean, for the people sitting upon the roof watch and everything go down in the zone. Viii apocalypse than the stoics would be survivors of the zone VIII Apocalypse. If there were any the stoics wouldn't be. The people
panicking running around flailing their arms everywhere, because they would recognise that their situation definitely wasn't looking that good, but wouldn't be emotionally affected by it, because they've accepted accepted their fate, whatever it is, and they realize that even though this zombie apocalypse doesn't look good for me on the surface, ultimately, for the universe is for the best, the stoics wouldn't be the people that don't have a plan either the people that are just following order. You know one member of a mass exodus of people all heading towards a military base in the distance. The stoics would use their natural ability to reason to make the wisest and most virtuous does because at least that decision was in harmony with nature sea, because when it all comes down to it, a lot of people talk about epicurean and stoics, not just as rival philosophical,
goals of their time, but they even go so far as to say that there are two completely different kinds of people, not only by entirely agree with the idea that they can be seen as opposites. After all, they were both schools descendant of Socrates. They were both interested in practical philosophy and the good life. There is actually a lot a huge similarities, but at the same time I understand where these people are coming from. There was an article published in eighteen sixty nine that talks about the two different kinds of people that make up at the curing ism and stoicism, and the common personality traits you find in either of them quote. There have ever been stern, upright self, controlled and courageous men actuated a appear sense of duty capable of high efforts of self sacrifice, somewhat intolerant of the frailties of others, somewhat hard and unsympathizing in the ordinary intercourse of society, but rising to heroic grander as the storm lowered upon their path and more ready to release
quick life than the cause they believed to be true. There have also always been men of easy tempers and of amiable disposition. Gentle benevolent and pliant, cordial friends and forgiving enemies selfish had heart yet ever ready when it is possible to unite their gratifications with those of others, averse to all enthusiasm, mysticism, utopias and superstition, with little depth of character or capacity for self sacrifice, but admirably fitted to impart into receive enjoyment and to render the course of life easy and harmonious, The first are by nature, stoics and the second epicurean end quote no one. I'm reading that I'm written at almost like it's a horoscope in the Sunday paper, I'm just I'm trying to find. Things about it that relate to me. I'm trying to label myself, I'm trying to say that's me
I'm a stoic, but I think I end up falling somewhere in the middle. I think most people would, if you compare stoicism, epicurism, there's similarities and differences. Both schools offered away to cultivate a tranquil state of mind, but they laid out completely different ways to get. Life in an epicurean commune was about living. A simple self governed life aimed at feeling pleasure, but stoicism was more of a challenge. People put themselves through it's kind of like an obstacle course. Both schools agreed that we don't really need much more than our basic needs met to achieve a true state of happiness, the different slide and where you focus your efforts once those basic needs were met. Followers of epicures thought you should dedicate your time to attaining pleasure, the stoic studies, the dedicate your time to living more virtuously. Both schools thought you shouldn't go through your life's stared about what might happen. You're scared of death or the gods are, whenever you're scared of there's nothing to worry about. The epicurean said you had nothing to worry about, because you're, just a collection of atoms, any
a collection that was randomly thrown together and eventually will break down and go on to form something out. So there's no after life to fear the stoics thought you had nothing to fear because you didn't have the slightest bit of control over it. Anyway, they preach the idea of resigned acceptance. The universe has been created and destroyed a seemingly infinite number of times. And things pan out in the exact same way, the absolute perfect way, each and every time you have a fate whatever it is. It's pointless to be worried about it. To find the origins of stoicism. You have to start with a story of a guy named Zeno.
And a guy named diaphanous, both of which are names we'd mentioned on the pond cast before and both of which are entirely not the same people I mean this is actually the third Diane genies we'd mentioned on the and I've, and I've always said it. If I could go back in time to any point in history, I choose to go back to this period of Greco Roman dominance and I'd become the world's greatest cold reading. Psychic ever man just walk up to people and say I'm I'm sensing aid diabetes in your life yeah, that's my dad's name and my brothers name and my dogs name in fact of twelve people named diet
How do you do it? My name would be heralded throughout the streets until the people rounded me up and burned me at the stake, but anyway the founder of stoicism is a guy named Zeno, more commonly referred to in history books as Zeno of Citium Wait. Actually let me start here, have you guys ever heard of a stoa? Well, of course you have. I talked about it. Last episode, Plato set up his academy to the West of Athens. Then Aristotle set up his lyceum to the EAST of Athens. Diogenes was to the south of Athens and Xeno right in the center. We were
close to having a four cardinal direction way to remember these four schools, but hey he was on the northern side of the athenian agro. That's good enough! For me. He taught in a place known as the Stoa or the painted the see. If you were walking around the around at the time, and you walked into this particular stoa, you would have seen a place with a crazy energy all around you, I mean years before years before Zena was even born right around the time of the Peloponnesian war, when the thirty tyrants were in charge of Athens. Fourteen hundred people were sentenced to death right in that very Stoa. If you walked into the stoa on the back, while you'd see beautiful paintings discovering it Gods of greek military conquest, one by Polygnotus, showing the great victory of marathon over the Persians and right in the middle of all this right. In the middle of this ambience, you would see a tall, thin man walking back and forth. Gesturing with his arms lecturing, a group of people. Standing or sitting around him and this man
would have been known as you, the founder of stoicism in factor pastime, upholding of holding lectures, this painted stowaways, how they got their name, the stoics will that and their original name of Z, Knowns just didn't, have a good ring to it and that's not a joke, I'm serious, but would you rather be called a as enone in or a stoic Zena was born and three thirty four BC. Thirteen years the death of Plato and early in life Zena went to an Oracle. The Oracle of the Greek God APOLLO,
and he asked the Oracle. How do I get the best life possible while the Oracle says back to him? You should take on the complexion of the dead. Why didn't get it at first? So I looked up the word complexion in the dictionary kind of embarrassed and Miriam Webster has two definitions. The first one is the color or appearance of the skin, especially on the face. That's what I thought it was now call me crazy, but I don't think the Oracle was given Zeno beauty secrets here. I don't think he was telling them that for a happy life, your face needs to look less alive. So I looked at the second definition and it says the general appearance or character something not starts to make a little more sense. I mean why would benefit alive person to take on the general character of a dead person in one area? Does a living person envy a dead person bolt? The story goes Zenos.
Thought about it for a while, then he decided to read a bunch of ancient books and that's ancient and three hundred BC, so really saying something, and then the next truly inclusive page, we have out of his that in around three hundred and eleven BC, Zeno just survives a terrible shipwreck, swims up on the shore and moves to Athens. Now, why did he just suddenly decide that his life of being a merchant was over and then going to Athens cutting philosophy was a good idea right then surviving a shipwreck and three hundred BC. The odds of that must have been like storm in the beaches in Normandy. It had to have been intense me, there's no helicopter rescue and three hundred BC, there's no life jackets and three honey.
B C. Not only would it have been terrifying and probably something you ve never experienced or even seen before in your life, but it also would have been an extreme test of physical and durance. If you wanted to live, Zeno no doubt almost died in that shipwreck. He was clinging to life, just Michael Phelps in it to shore and now of all times This is the time you choose to make a complete career change into answering questions about the nature of existence. He found the complexion of the dead. Alright, no doubt he probably thought he'd gotten a little too close to the general character of the dead. I mean, after a close call like that. Zeno was ready to go sky, diving rocky Mountain, climbing two point: seven seconds on a bull named fo man to this near death. Experience changed his outlook on life and quick aside. If you want to take something from Zeno's, life find a way to go, get in a shipwreck, not really, but the sentiment of what I'm about about to say
been hijacked and squandered by cliches, for I don't know how many years, but it's worth saying you want to drastically improve your life, find a way to think of each day in each moment as a gift fabricate. The feeling state gain from a near death experience without actually having one and you'll live a thousand lifetimes, and I'm convinced this is what Zeno was feeling. Then Zeno survives the shipwreck he shows up in Athens and sits down at a bookstore starts reading a book by Xenophon. You might remember, that name from our episode on Socrates. He was one of the only four sources. Historians have that talk about Socrates in any depth and Zeno was reading his book about Socrates way back then he instantly loves Socrates, so much so that he went up to the bookstore owner and asked him where in the world he could find a man like Socrates, because he wanted to learn from it. So the shopkeeper just looks outside of the shop,
and like a scene out of a movie, he points to a scraggly man. That's just hobbling past, pass the shop and says right there. The man was crazies cynical Loss of her staunch admirer of Socrates and in all Well liked, guy for his time, for this: No, the decision was easy. He would become his student and learn the philosophy of cynicism now, as we said, or stoicism and Epicureanism were heavily influenced by Socrates and its practical approach to philosophy cynicism. Was another embodiment of the socratic lifestyle. In fact, the first it was a guy named anticipates who was actually a student of Socrates and there were other cynics at a time. The mints popularity like crazies, but notes I could more memorable or more devoted to the cause than die God Geneva cynically to somebody that didn't you but what cynicism was this guy would look absolutely insane me just a man
Charles Manson living in a tub on the streets. Diogenes lived in a tub yeah allowed at people who are just minding their own business in the marketplace. He would famously heckle Plato during his lectures and try to sabotage. In some stories tell him carrying a lantern around in the daytime shining in people's faces. Saying he's looking for an honest man. The original greek word that was later latin Ized into the word. Cynic meant doglike really. It was just referring to an extreme animal listing rejection to human conventions, but by all genies took it literally sometimes would bark at people it would lay around in public completely nude. He would do other act, but he's in public that are not appropriate for a family show like this one, there's a story, a peep messing with them and when their eating at this banquet, they throw him their bones. As though we were a dock, So he does the natural thing. He runs up to him and said paying all over their legs. Like he's a dog, he
so well known as a philosopher and social miscreant that Alexander the great wanted to meet him when he came through town in the story, goes it Alex Walking up to him. He sees die he's on the ground, and he produces himself and he says, is there anything I can do for you and Diogenes goes yeah move a couple steps to the left, you're blocking my sunlight, then Alexander last and says, if I were not Alexander, I would want to be dialogue. Jimmy's, then dioxin. He says well, if I were not diagnoses, I would also want to be dialogue. Jimmy's. Now. My first reaction, when I hear this story is dioxin, is what a character and then my second reaction right after that is. Why did Alexander the eight say he would want to be diabetes, and I think I understand now see Alexander the great was the most powerful man in the world constantly surrounded by guards whatever he wants he gets even in our empire. Sometimes there's nothing. Any normal man can do to one in industry.
Wade Diabetes is the same. He so devoid of any pride position, since relationships, there's, definitely a free and having nothing to lose, and I think this is what Alexander was gettin it, but make no mistake It's not like diagnoses was doing all this stuff simply for the sake of being strain. It's all he was lady Gaga. His lifestyle was representation I'll, be at a very extreme one of cynic philosophy. Cynicism was about achieving a tranquil state of mind. The difference between it and something like epicurean ism was the method of getting there now. This tranquillity can also be thought of as self sufficiency, because you're completely unaffected by things like unfair rules or unrealistic desires. The cynics called these external restrictions cynics believed that the good life or the life that's worth living is a virtuous life and a virtuous life is one. That's an agreement with nature
they are talking about recycling or not dumping toxic waste into the ocean, at least not exclusively they're, talking about being in harmony with our own human nature and our place within nature. Now part of our nature is having the ability to use reason to better, stand our nature, and if you were to live in perfect harmony with nature, there wouldn't be any external restrictions. You would be self sufficient Venus is living in accordance with our rational understanding of nature. Now, they Argentine says is that human nature is not to be part of this society with all of its little conventions and restrictions and rituals that we go through all these desires. The desire. Be a movie star or the desire to have a giant vault of money or to be president of the United States all these days these are things that society has implanted in us. Jimmy's just took this to an extreme, and so that we, didn't care about whether we live in a tub on the streets or non or whether we look like Charles
dense and carrying around a lantern at high noon. We should live a life in accordance with nature and do whatever we want. Whenever we want to do it. The more we do that the closer we get to achieving this tranquil state of mind. There's a famous story about Zena, where he's a student of craters learning, the ropes of cynic, thought and a pair, He was a really good student when it came to learning the philosophy, but crazy thought he was way too modest. I mean to be a true cynic back then you need to give up any semblance of pride imaginable, you needed to be ready to act Something mortifying happened to you and not care at all, because you checked all these social conventions that tell you that shouldn't happen so to teach him a lesson: Ladies give Zeno an assignment. He forces him to carry around a pot of lentil soup everywhere. He goes. No Zeno
Embarrassed of having to walk around with a pond a soup understandable, tries to hide the pot underneath his robe so that no one sees it and crates with a move. That, in retrospect was completely uncalled for takes his staff and smashes the pots and L Zenos really embarrassed lintels running down his legs. He runs off prize to hide or clean himself. Often crazies yells after him. As he's running away, why run way, my little Phoenician, nothing terrible has befallen you. It's these sore of traumatic situations that probably led to Zeno not being entirely on board with the cynics You liked a lot of what they had to say, but he wasn't totally satisfied because, if he was, he would have just became a cynic right. Cynicism was an evolution of Socrates and Stoa with an an evolution of cynicism? You had these cynics like crazy he's an diogenes around for a long time, this kind of echoes of Taoism in there. You know the idea that
a lot of society that most people see as progress is actually regression which had returned back to our more natural state. Its clear that Zeno and stoicism for that matter was heavily impacted by two main ideas from cynicism. One is the idea that the only we need to live a good life. A happy life is virtue. The other is the notion that the best way to live life can be found by looking to nature. He, like those ideas but z, no thought something was missing, one of them. in things, that's missing from cynicism that ends up being a key element and stoicism is the idea of physics and Metaphysics an explanation of the universe. Where is it in cynicism? The cynics were direct descendants of Socrates, it's understandable for them to think of these questions as too abstract to be productive, but for the Stoics and Zeno it just wasn't. Good enough, I mean a big part of his method of achieving a
of tranquility is the idea of fate, because when you believe in fate, you realize that worrying about all these things, you can't control is pointless, but you need to be able to prove that that exist. And in order to do that, you need to ask all these abstract questions. There needs to be some scientific explanation for why you shouldn't be worried, it so Where do the way the epicurean needed the explanation that you're just made of atoms and void to justify their belief that there isn't some after life, you should be scared of you're, just gonna dissolve one day, so Zena didn't see it like the cynics. He didn't see it as point with speculation. It certainly may be speculation, but it definitely had a place in practical philosophy, as you know sought, so he left crazies. He decided to try to get a different perspective on everything. Maybe try to further is education about how the universe was formed. Some people say he studied at play,
academy. Obviously years after Plato had been dead, some people say he just studied the curriculum of the academy under a guy named Socrates, but either way he was obviously influenced by the idea: the academy in many ways, and ultimately he ends up combining the elements of his time with the cynics and his education from the academy to make the most successful school of thought in the hellenistic gauge the the idea that something bad may happen to you, and even though initially it looks like there's nothing good that can possibly come from it. But when it's all said and done Everything happens for the best. This idea was a key element, pleader laid out in his work, the to make And it seems obvious in his education. Zena was heavily influenced by this, but there were a lot of differences between Plato's universe and Zenos universe. Zeno, like a curious and unlike Plato, had a materialist view of the universe. He believed that the only thing-
that existed were material bodies. There is no immortal soul or afterlife or transcendent world of forms. All that exists is right in front of our eyes nature and the entire universe, for that matter should be thought of, as in all, encompassing. Whole all animated and governed by a divine logos, which can also be thought of. As God's will reason, Providence Fate, all wrapped up into one in humans should be thought of, as part of that whole our ability to reason all fractions or sparks of that divine logos. The important thing to take from that is that everything happens. The way it's supposed to and according to a plan governed by this divine logos, stoic physics really begin and with Plato and the teachings of the academy that Zenith no doubt was privy to. There's a scene in Plato's book called sophist where he's asking some people. What is real How do we know something is real
An answer someone gives us that something is real if it has the capacity to act or to be acted upon. Stoicism Ingenio likes this definition, but they add that only bodies can act or be acted upon. Thus only bodies exist. However, they make it very clear to recognise that its very possible to be part of nature without actually existing like non material things like love or justice or time these things are imaginary. He called them figments of the mind the key to achieving, state of mental tranquillity is virtue. The key to virtue is living a life, that's an agreement with nature. Hence the well known stoic maxim that virtue consists in a will. That's an agreement with nature are right. So what is nature One thing I gotta realise words: dont mean the same things today that they did back then, just like we talked about what the cynics being in agreement with nature That does not mean going to yell.
Stone National Park and picking up trash nature to the stoics. Is God the stoics were a pantheistic philosophy. Pantheistic means that God is the universe. The definition of God is not how people typically of God in modern times, God isn't a homo sapien up in the sky, controlling things, God is the universe, which is a material substance that has the ability to reason and uses that reason to structure and control matter to fit its plan. The stoic philosopher, Chrysippus talks about the stoic view of God here quote the universe itself. Is God in the universal outpouring of its soul? It is the same worlds. Guiding principle operating in mind and reason, together with the common nature of things in the town, reality that embraces all existence, then the for ordained might and necessity of the future. Then fire and the principle of Ether
then those elements whose natural state as one of flux and transition, such as water earth and air than the sun, the moon, the stars in the universal existence in which all things are contained, in quote stoics, believe that God or nature is in I'd have everything and affects the outcome of everything, even down to the smallest detail. Now to avoid future confusion, I'm just gonna referred to it as nature. From now on. This nature is then further bisected down into two types active impassive now, whenever you're making anything, whether it's a chair or an Iphone or a universe. For that matter, you need materials to make the thing out of, and then you need someone to assemble it. The passive element of nature is the raw materials, the matter, the physical stuff, that things are made up of but they would just lie there and do nothing if you didn't have something to set them in motion. The active element in nature is the device.
Find logos, also known as reason, also known as fate. I swear. The stoics tried to confuse people with this stuff. This divine logos is the vehicle by which nature does its bidding and affects the outcomes of the universe. So you can see why the stoics also thought of it is fate. They thought the universe is made up of four elements: earth, water, air and fire. The path of elements were earth and water and the active elements were fire and air right after the early Stowa. Stoics had an extremely detailed account of how the universe has created. It's it's fantastic. I recommended, if you have about six hours to kill, but the central themes Their story is that in the beginning, Nothing was made of a mixture of fire and ere the active elements which then transfer form in various ways to make up the passive elements. Earthen, water and then things keep transforming and be.
Guided by the divine logos or reason to form the world that were more familiar with then everything reverses the world were familiar with, turns back into the elements. And the elements turned back into the mixture of fire and air, it's an endless, eternal cycle and its because everything is governed by real. And the fact that that reason has had an infinite number tries at creating the universe that fade exists. The stoics believe there's only one perfect way to do it in nature, or God would never choose to do it in an inferior way, so things are very predictable destined. If you will this mixture of fire and ere, the fundamental substance sets in everything is called Panama. There's a quote by a guy My name is Tobias talking about his views on the elements and how they make up various things that we see in the world around us quote: Fire air water earth.
Since all other things are composed by means of a particular one of these or more than one of these or all of these, all four in the case of animals and all terrestrial compounds too, in the Is it the moon which is composed by means of fire and air, and just one in the the sun, which is composed by means of fire for the sun, is pure fire. End quote it all comes full circle. Remember the stoics think that to live a good or happy life, you need to they virtuous life and remember the stoic bumper sticker from earlier virtue consists in a will. That is in agreement with nature, while nature is God in God, back through the divine logos or the reason that governs all things so humans. With their very Unique ability to reason can think of this reason. As a spark or a minuscule fraction of that divine reason. The more you you your reason in accordance with nature, the more virtuous you become and the more virtuous you become the moron. Harmony with nature. You are
actually a very nice circle. This emphasis on humans and their unique ability to reason, marking them, as distinct from other animals, reminds me of a scene. On the show, lost and actually this crazy, elaborate theory of the universe with fire. AIR and mystery as though it's just trying to bait you and watching six seasons on the edge your seat in the never explain anything that also reminds me. A lost man come on polar bears. What was with the polar bears? I'm sorry, I'm still little angry seen that I'm talking about its between John Locke and that drug addict rockstar guy a blanket on his name stay away from my baby, Charlie Charlie? I should know that I need my dog after the guy Charlie is trying to quit drugs and the scene. He struggling job walk, has his drugs and he's acting as a barrier between Charlie and relapse, and I love this scene. because there are so many deep implications here. Charlie is sitting around bear.
we even able to strummers guitar he sweating. His bones are oviously hurting. He looks like he's sick he's going through withdrawals. Now John Locke goes up to him and tells him he should go for a walk in the fresh air would do him well, so Charlie starts walking and he's by himself in the middle of this thick tropical woods, any here's something behind him. It's obviously an animal its sounds like an angry wild pig of some sort, that's chasing him, so we start running and the pig keeps chasing them. It's very dramatic and right when the pig is about to get them, or I can't really think of what a pig would do that kills a human. The pig flies up in the air and an elaborate net track that John Locke set up to try to catch it now walk planned everything out. He set up two traps that day one for Charlie to be walking and get pursued by the pig and one for Charlie. Run the unknowingly run the pig into so that John Locke could eat it.
Course, Charlie's a little upset about being bait for the pig, but then he just completely flips out he starts demanding his drugs. You start saying that he sick. He starts asking lock. Why can't I have my drugs? Why do you do this to me? Is it to torture me and walks as no it's to give you a choice because being able to make choices based on something other than instinct? Is the only thing that separates you from him and he pointed to the pig suspended above them in a net trap, obviously not doing, Well, the idea of cultivating your ability to reason and harmony with nature and stoicism is very similar to what John Locke is talking about in this scene. The goal of though, a system was to be completely free of suffering by using our unique ability to reason to make decisions. In harmony with nature, this state of being was called Apatheia n next episode is gonna, be all about these kind of things, but the important thing is that as humans, the thing were best at its thinking or breeze.
And we should use this reason to figure out the way the world Actually is not what we first think it is once we know that We then realize that the best way to live within the world is to realize that the insignificant problems in our everyday lives dont really matter that much. Each human is an infinitely small part of an inch large universe, that's created into destroyed an infinite number of times, all these little things Don't really matter that? Much if you use reason rational, is the opposite of irrational and humans are most irrational when their consume. By their emotions or impulses, Charlie in this scene represents a human, that's in a state of suffering, he made poor decisions not using ability to reason very well, because if he had had a real, I sat doing. Drugs would have brought him this suffering, and yet he still continues
overcome by his emotions and impulses to try to relapse and get his drugs back from walk. Lock represents the stoic way of looking at things, not just the obvious example of reason when he doesn't give Charlie as drugs back but he's a perfect example of somebody living with a reasoned outlook. As the stoics would see it. I mean multiple traps, you reason to know exactly how the pig and Charlie would react to his traps be practically saw the pigs fate before it happened not permit. And his character on the show is incredibly tranquil and happy, despite the fact that his plane crashed and deserted him on an island. I don't think the political unrest of the hellenistic age would bother John lock that much. There's a good quote by a guy named sexist empiricist. That talks about this dynamic of stoicism quote. The stoic say that man differs from irrational animals because of internal speech not uttered speech for crows and pay
and Jay's utter articulate sound. Nor does he differ from other creatures and virtue of simple expressions for they to receive these. But in virtue of impression created by inference and combination. This amounts to man its possessing of an idea of connection, and he grasped the concept of signal. Because of this, Four signal itself is the following form. If this, then that, therefore, the existence of signal follows from the nature and constitution of man. End quote to start wrap in the sub. So let's get back to the early stoa right after the death of Zena was the next big name stoicism client. These He was a philosopher by day manual labour by night and so now found a way to moonlight as a poet in between all that he wrote. A great poem is most notable work called him to. Where It lays out the next evolution of articulating stoic ideas for them. One god provides providential care too
A life of virtue is essential. The happiness three there is a harmonic unity to the universe and for universal reason or logos governs all things This was a nice step forward in the organization of ideas, but client. These was easily overshadowed by a student chrysippus, who some accounts. Wrote over seven hundred books. He was the godfather of stoic logic now remember the three main pillars of stoic philosophy are physics, ethics and logic. We ve talked about physics and We ve made a reasonable case for how it relates to ethics, even though next episode is gonna be time things together much much more than we did here, but where does logic fit and all this? Firstly, stoic logic was definitely a huge accomplishment. They have a lot of interesting ideas and even be spoken in the same sentence as Aristotle is a massive comp to their system of logic, but because they lived in a time and
close proximity to Aristotle, they're, usually seen as rivals and most of the discussion usually devolves into who had it more right in one area, but all the arguments aside, the two systems actually worked pretty well together. Now, after red syllogisms and in demonstrable on the podcast before, and it just doesn't work well on a purely audio form of commute. Patient bought. Everyone should understand is that logic was considered one of the three pillars of stoic thought, because this I will start that understanding logic was understanding The divine logos or reason that governs all things. Logic for them was a very wide topic. It certainly wasn't syllogisms are being able to analyze arguments, it included all kinds of things like rhetoric grammar and they even polluted epistemological, think of it as understanding and practicing the most efficient ways of sharpening and honing your ability to reason and live in harmony with nature. They thought that being
to reason well and being able to refute bad arguments that other people attack you with is a sure fire sign of a wise man and that, if you could master this art, you would never be fool. Or misled by anyone, so it was incredibly important to them the lead Commentator, dialogue and he's not the crazy dioxin. These rights, a pretty good account of the stoics view on the importance of logic, quote the reason why the stoics adopt these views and logic is to give the strongest possible confirmation to their claim that the wise man is always a option for all thing: are observed through the study conducted in discourses? there. They belong to the domain of physics or equally, that of ethics. As to logic that goes without saying, then he goes on later without the study of diet, the wise men, will not be infallible in argument since dialect. Distinguishes the true from the false and clarifies plausibility an ambiguous statements without it more it is impossible to ask and answer questions methodically precipitancy and argue
Meant extends to what actually happens so people who do not their impressions, trained, veer into states of disorder and carelessness Only in this way will the wise man show himself to be penetrating sharp witted and someone who did earliest formidable an argument for the person whose job it is to discuss and argue correctly the very person whose job it is to discuss, debating topics and respond to the questions put to him, and these are the facts, since of the man experienced and dialectic end quote,. There's one more thing. I want to leave you with this week and it's an early stoa view of stoic epistemological, we gather infer nation through our senses, but sometimes these since six, deceive us. How do you explain those gives a visual demonstration of how to think about stoic. Epistemology Zenos said that to truly know. Something means that you have grasped that in a way where it's impossible, to be dissuaded by argument. He would be giving one of his lectures, probably in the Stoa
and he would stretch out his arm in front of him and show his open palm and he would point to his hand and say this is perception. Then he would slightly closes finger. Just a little bit so now. He looks like Zena with arthritis points to his hand now and says. This is a cent ascent is agreement or a belief in something. Then he closes his fist tight and points to it and says this is comprehension, and then he takes his other hand and grabs his fist holding it closed, and he says this is knowledge. Alright time for the question of the week and remember answer to answer to today's question as a comment on the Facebook post for today's episode and not only will supporting be supporting the show on social media, but a chance to one fifty bucks to wherever you want. So earlier in the show we were talking about different reactions. People have to an apocalyptic scenario and we were comparing the different times
so people to the different schools of philosophy and the Hellenistic age this court, she is about a scenario, a little less severe here. It is hypothetical scenario: let's say that an asteroid hit the earth, not a big one, nobody dies, but the impact of the asteroid Knox out all satellite communication, all phone reception, all the internet connection of the entire world. Let's also say that in this alternate universe, we ve crafted that the president tells us that they can fix it. But it's gonna be thirty days and how they can get it fixed. No phone, no computer, no tv, no, dvds, no electronics for thirty days, philosophize this. How would you spend that thirty days? What would you do who would you spend it with now? These answers? Don't have to be of a certain type. They can be funny, they can be sentimental, they can be about. You take
king advantage of some new business opportunities created by that scenario. Whatever you want, my wife is judging and whichever one she likes best wins. Thank you for everything, guys I'll talk to you soon. Hey guys if you'll love, philosophize this and want to make sure you never misses episode. Consider signing for email notifications. Whenever anyone so it is released. I will person, Send you an email telling you, it was released along with a short summary to peak your interest picture, guarantee they make a smile and pretty much thing else interesting in the philosophical world that week you can sign up on the front page of steam. Why should not net and, as always, Thank you for wanting to know more today than you did yesterday
Transcript generated on 2020-10-01.