For more information about this or any episode of the podcast check out the website at philosophize this work, we have additional content further reading transcripts of every show. A pre, of course, but if you value this shows an educational resourcing, you wanna help keep it going. You can fly not more about how to do that at patriarch, dot com, slash philosophize this or alternatively you're buying something from Amazon this week anyway,. Consider clicking through our banner it's at the bottom centre of the landing page philosophize, this dot, org small percentage. Goes back to the show. It may just be a click for you, but every little bit adds up. Thank you for wanting to know more today than you did yesterday, and I hope you love the show, there's no it's illegal to commit suicide, its legal to commit suicide. Well, it's been taken off the books. In some places the muster must have how hilariously pointless that lie

is but nonetheless, all throughout history. You know it was a felony under English, common law for the longest time for most time periods and most cultures throughout history. Suicide has been elite like that has been a law on the books. You are not allowed to commit suicide now might be spoiled the ending to the episode here a little bit, but suicide is an interesting thing in morality. Is it okay to do? Is it not okay? To do it's incredibly controversial, there's, certainly not a consensus on the matter, but given the time in place you were born into you might think. Otherwise. You might think that there was a clear cut answer to the question. Is it wrong how to commit suicide like what do we do when someone brings up suicide and just a normal everyday conversation. But what do you do if somebody comes up to you at work and just in passing in a conversation, tells you my uncle committed suicide?

Yesterday well in modern american society, we instantly feel terrible right. Oh no, he committed suicide. That's horrible, hear that quiet, reverential tone to your voice, things get awkward real quick! I mean it's a completely different response and somebody told you they? You know. I took my uncle to the airport yesterday he's going on a long trip and I'm not going to see him for a while. Well pardon me for asking this, I I don't mean to offend anyone's long standing beliefs on the nature of suicide here, but after all, this is a philosophy podcast gets for new around here. This is all about questioning our beliefs on stuff questioning. Why we think and act. The way we do so I apologize in advance of this is an easy question for answer from somehow wasting your time with this. But why is suicide so wrong? Why are we so quick to negatively judge suicide in particular Why did suicide or and this reputation? Why can t we

We live in a world where somebody tells you at work their uncle committed suicide in your match. Our responses, a good for him good for you and for both the guy's yeah, but maybe I should start here. Let me ask you a question

Can you at least imagine a world where there's ever a situation where committing suicide is okay? Can you think of an example or committing suicide would be an okay thing to do now? Most people in response to this question fall into one of two camps. I'm not saying you fall into either. In fact, if you listen to this show You'Re- probably much more nuanced than the subject than this, but most people, statistically speaking, fall into one of two camps either one. No! No! Absolutely not. Are you kidding me? Why would you even ask that? Why are you stupid? It's never, okay, to kill yourself. Never it's! Never! The right decision, there's always an alternative. The other camp is who cares I'm apathetic about everything now my problem. Now you want to kill yourself, kill yourself, it's your body. I can't stop you do what you want with it. The point I want to make here today is not which one of these is more correct. The question

I want us to ask ourselves today is something a little weird I guess, but makes it in keeping with this whole show. Where do these police come from? Initially, your belief that you hold right now about whether suicide is morally permissible or not, if they're, more nuance in these two examples I just gave? Where did those police come from in the first place you weren't born with them or you mean you weren't a baby walking around on the playground with police on suicide. You must learn them somewhere, you must. Reason to them. Somehow what did they come from, but here's an even better question for us to consider. Can you imagine a world, and this is completely hypothetical here. I realise how come you see the sounds, but can you imagine a world where committee Suicide was actually a good thing or people wait. Did their entire lives for their ultimate moment to just commit suicide where they trained ever

day in hopes of one day having the deterministic laws of the universe or, where the providential hand of God, whenever they believed and give them the glorious opportunity to commit suicide. Can you imagine a world? We tell your friends at work. Your uncle committed suicide yesterday are not met with reverential tones and sympathy, but but with smiles and excitement, because if you can well, you can imagine the world your living in right. Now, that's a pretty good place to start. For example, the Spartans right spartan more years lived every day of their lives. Training praying for this sort of opportunity praying to be met with a glorious situation of certain death on the battlefield where they may sacrifice themselves in the name of their countrymen, but even I side of combat even many cultures? Today, it's seen as an honourable thing to do to take your own life in certain contexts. It's an honourable thing too You take your own life if you're, nothing, but a financial or an emotional burden on your family and fellow members of society, see what I'm

He's not that suicide of some great thing that we should strive to do, but that maybe the world is not as black and white as suicide bad in every situation or suicide is perfectly ok in every situation I mean even just in the back of Modern America, a single culture a single time period. Even then, we keep two sets of books and come to suicide. Note we piglet notoriously seen as a suicide. The guy had it coming when the enemies were converging in from either side on Berlin, the guy killed himself as a suicide, but what about the suicide of Jesus Christ, our Lord? Why did Jesus commit suicide and right now, you're proposing Stephen West you're? Horrendously misinformed cases didn't commit suicide. He was crucified. He was put to death by the Romans he was murdered. While I got news for you person, I'm talking to you through this, my

phone Jesus was God manifest on planet earth. This guy could do everything this guy. I mean this guy could walk on water. This guy could heal the blind. This guy could have summoned an army of freaking flaming unicorns to come down and smite the Romans and prevent them from ever crucifying him. He chose not to He facilitated his own death. He committed suicide in the name of your sent to its very tempting, to try to redefine this work suicide only account for the negative right for attempting to read

find suicide to only account for the self facilitated deaths that I disagree with. Let's try not to do that now, for you more secular minded folks. The Jesus example probably didn't resonate with you very well. Let me do another one: what about Socrates? Socrates, committed suicide in the name of philosophy? Didn't he now again many of you might be saying right now, Steven West, you are horrendously misinformed. Socrates didn't commit suicide. He drank him lock, it was a death sentence. The Athenian sentenced him to death, but Socrates could have easily argued his way out of those charges he could have been exiled. He didn't need to be put to death the whole.

Point was that he was not going to be reduced to sophistry. He spent his entire life as the opposition to the surface around him. He facilitated his own death in the name of a noble cause. That is suicide again, it's very tempting to try to redefine this word suicide. The only account for the self facilitated des that I disagree with when someone tells us at work at their uncle committed suicide over the weekend. We instantly make a host of assumptions. Don't we we instantly assume that something must have been wrong with this person when they made that decision and there may have been mentally, but that doesn't change the assumptions that we make our head right. Assumptions like suicide is wrong. Why would anyone commit suicide eyesight they commit suicide death, something I'm trying to avoid at all costs. But therein lies the problem. You're conflicting your own intentions behind why you make the choices you do with theirs, and it's all from the comfort of that beautiful little arm chair. You have up in your head right, here's! What I'm would ask you to consider today that maybe your thoughts,

suicide are equally is conditioned into your head. Is the ones working and into the heads of the Spartans during antiquity, maybe your belief, sons beside or more pliant, or at least less blacken. White then they might initially seem on the surface and we're gonna. Look at sea From from a lot of different angles. Today. Ultimately, confuse on suicide on you think, are an credibly interesting take on why suicide is never okay but let its episode serve as an extension of last episode right. Let this episode be an example of just how easy it is for us to outsource our beliefs to the people around us. Suicide in itself. Doesnt seem very dynamic. Does it seems like somebody, it's pretty cuttin dry. If conclusions about what is morally permissible or not can be made at all suicide seems like one of these behaviors, where we're gonna be able to

some conclusions about stuff right suicide seems like a pretty good place to start now. Look I'm not naive. I know what you're saying right now I glossed over this point before purposefully. I know what you're saying well look when somebody tells me at work that their uncle committed suicide. Yes, I instantly assume some stuff. I instantly assume that something's wrong with them, because typically there was something wrong with them. I have that reverential tone in my voice, because mental illness is a tragedy. I wholeheartedly agree mentally ill and depressed people do kill themselves. These people needed help help that they didn't get. In fact, if you want my opinion, I think one hundred years from now people look back on the way we underserve these people they'll see us as Barba.

people also typically make an exception for the terminally ill right people in a lot of pain, if someone's in a lot of pain, it's okay for them to commit suicide, because at least they're going out on their own terms, they're, bringing an end to all this suffering that they're going through again, not disagreeing, but that's I would ask you to return to the original question, barring the exception of mentally or terminally ill people taking their own life is suicide, a more be permissible act to you how much control the p we have over their own bodies? Does another one As mentally sound perfectly normal person have the right to take their own life. If they want to. Would you They were morally wrong for doing it. These are questions worth asking by the way the mental illness exception to the rules when that Plato recognised all the way back in the third century BC. Let's talk about Plato, Plato writes in his work fatal through the quintessentially wise character of Socrates. Of course, in one of his more pythagorean moments, he talks about a concept,

the tiger rains actually were the first to lay out the idea that suicide is definitely wrong. It's wrong because it would be releasing ourselves from our duty that the gods put us here to do. He compares us like a guard at a guard post. It would be complete, we inappropriate if you were a guard, meaning a guard post to relieve yourself of your duty. Now, it's not your choice, tat your choice. When you leave your guard post now, you wait for your order from up above right. Plato. Talks about how we've been placed here is sort of like a punishment by the gods, we're kind of like prisoners serving out a sentence, although it's a pretty negative connotation associated with being a prisoner. It's probably not the best example, but committing suicide is wrong. Because it's like we're a prisoner committing some sort of celestial jailbreak to Plato. It's it's, not our

had to decide when our sentence is over on this planet. No Plato does give exceptions to this rule, people who are struggling with mental illness, people who well, he says in terms of people whose character is so far gone, that it's a lost cause to even try. These people get a free pass, but for everyone else very cut and dry, there is no excuse for committing suicide. It is morally wrong. It would be laziness or cowardice to ever relieve yourself of your duty. You probably recognize those words, laziness or cowardice right, but Plato, just I mean Plato starts to sound downright emasculating. At times like I felt I for one personally attacked this week. Reading Plato. to say things like what you can't handle the pressures of life. Man up man up don't commit suicide, but I want to talk about this theory. This idea that it would be morally wrong for us to relieve ourselves of our duty as guards placed at a guard posed by the gods for a purpose right. Let's talk about that theory

It is so easy to look back at that and cloud it with medieval superstition right so easy to say, Plato, look at you three hundred BC with you with your gods, in your hocus Pocus, your witches and goblins, but keep a mine Plato lived hundreds of years before Jesus ever made a popular to be a monotheists Platos. Not talk about a singular god here he's not talking about a thing no God that has a personal relationship with you who has decreed a moral code free to follow, and I think it opens up a lot of interesting conversations to be charitable to Plato here like you can apply any number of different world views across. Played his example and you might be able to appreciate his argument a lot more. Let's do a modern example. That's the show is right. Let's do let's applies and Sagan ISM to Plato it. That's that's even and ISM Sagan is based

one Carl Sagan quote: we are a way for for the cosmos to know itself while her that, before it, the original cosmos, nineteen, seventy something Sagan said we are sentient life we sense and perceived the world around us. Our purpose is to say and perceive the world around us? So if you apply this idea across Plato's example, metaphorically speaking, the gods well, the gods could just be the ordering principles of the universe. You know the laws of physics, the laws of thermodynamics next, the progressive adaptation of life to its environment, evolution whenever you want to call it the things that make it possible for censure life to exist at all, and our guard post that we're manning as guards is just to perceive the world the world around US

The universe has bestowed upon you sentient life. This incredible ability to be one tiny aspect of that totality in to be a way for the cosmos to know itself. It is bestowed upon you, a guard post right and you committing suicide, would be to cut that perceiving short that duty that you have to help the cosmos to know itself. Again. This works with any number of examples. The constant in the argument is this: we have an obligation to some exterior think whatever it is, some purpose assigned to us by a third part. That would make us killing ourselves immoral, because it's us not meeting up to our end of some bargain. That's been set up. People, don't just do this with gods or the universe they do it with. I mean people even do this with Government and society right they say from the very moment, you're born society and government are giving you certain benefits the benefit of security. The benefit of a recent This is the may even down to the roads you drive around on these things are serving you and something

say that it's morally wrong to commit suicide, because you owe it back to this society, your production, you owe it to this. I need to produce as long as you possibly can again, this argument is not just gods, it's not just the universe of virtue or society. The constant in all of these arguments is that it's wrong for you kill yourself, because you have an obligation to meet your end of some bargain. That's been set up oftentimes. This bargains been set up without your explicit consent, which starts to be the really funny and twisted part of all of this. But anyway, after Plato, you got the stoics, you got Senica, you know famous council to the emperor Nero as we talked about on this show one of the most famous suicides. Ever its seneca famously it's the quality of life that matters not the quantity of life, but nothing was more influential, nothing

the average american view. Suicide. Then Christianity. Now it should be said to be fair to Christianity. In recent years, the catholic church has been coming around right. They see the fighting on the wall if they want to survive as being a moral authority in this world, there are going to have to grow. Morally speaking, as the society grows, morally around them right, they've introduced new closets into their verbiage that allow for mentally ill or terminally ill people to commit suicide. They are pretty sure that Jesus is going to be understanding, they're, pretty sure Jesus is going to take that terrible disease. He allowed them to get into consideration before damning them to eternal hellfire, but before about fifteen years ago, the stance of Christianity on suicide was very simple. It was based on a conglomeration of the philosophy of Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas. Suicide was wrong, I'm

so loosely wrong. No exceptions turns out. God takes the ten commandments, pretty seriously. Who would have thought and what it does to notice is about suicide. He writes in his famous work. The city of God is at God makes his stay it's on suicide. Perfectly clear. There is no ambiguity here. He says right there in the ten commandments, he chiseled it into stone. He says: thou shalt not kill. Now he also says: thou shall not barefoot witness against I neighbour. So what a gust and says is god very deliberately frames it. This way you could have easily chiseled Anderson, stone tablets, thou shalt, not kill my neighbor, but no, no, he says thou shall not kill. That means everything. Everything yourself included. Future reader of the stone tablet makes it kind of interesting and confusing, though you know like how about all the life that's coursing through these animals that we supposedly have dominion over and the fact, of course, that Christianity is founded on the

The ultimate voluntary human sacrifice, but either way God's will was clear. Suicide was wrong. No matter what color you were. Black white or yellow with jaundice, not Thomas Aquinas, completely agreed with a guest in MID defends the idea further, all throughout his philosophy and, ultimately, the in game of their philosophical suicide tag. Team that they play is the idea that we as mere humans, we don't completely own our bodies. They were limited to what they called. The concept of issues is cervical rent to own we're merely in possession merely in possession of these bodies got owns? Them were renting them from him as planet, but the deeds, but the name they're his name there. His bodies now, of course, the natural conclusion here that if you commit suicide during the middle ages, your body is then desecrated, torn apart from mutilated Oliver possessions in your family's possessions, were seized.

What was that the natural conclusion will either way it how it went down. Point is they didn't take soon slightly in the middle ages. You know what they just loved you way too much to ever watch. It hurt yourself like that. Now this moral, absolutist stance on suicide was the main way of thinking all the way up until the enlightenment, it was unshakable, It was powerful. Really wants me. Consider this even someone like a John Locke right. Even someone whose entire political philosophy world chain political philosophy is predicated on the idea that we talked about on here. We ass humans have the right to life. Liberty and property to big business that, are liberty over our body and what it produces. Even John Locke, Polly Math Genius says that one of the exceptions to that rule of liberty over our body is that while we can't kill ourselves, why would he make that distinction, though? Why don't We have total sovereignty over our body. Why? Don't? We have sovereignty

over our body, to the point that we can destroy it. If we want to raises a lot of interesting questions about what suicide is at all right, they couldn't you make the case that people that smoke or people that eat really bad or people that drink all the time they're willingly destroying their body, but you wouldn't call that suicide. You wouldn't call it suicide if somebody thought they were drinking Kool aid, but instead they were drinking bleach because I can't be just any death that is self caused right in what philosophers usually say from here's, that suicide is only when you intentionally are bringing about death on yourself intentionally it somewhere in the intentions behind. Why you're doing something that suicide lies not in what actually happens now. Conversely, on that same note, it still called suicidal behaviour. If you think you're taking an entire bottle

Prescription meds when in reality they were Flintstones vitamins right you to state that four hundred Barney rebels, but questions about what suicide is itself aside, philosophies opinion on it took a giant shifting the enlightenment thinkers, the guys I ve been talking about the last twelve or so episode. Voltaire Rousseau They all opposed the well as they saw it radical idea that suicide is morally impermissible. You may be the most interesting of all these positions. Most of is because what he does is so David Hume lay it's exactly wait expect from David Heel. He takes the argument of the church has been making for centuries centrally. About why suicide is wrong and he points out all the assumptions and then contradictions in it and ultimately shows that it may be way more complicated than what the leading on about so the churches.

I that we don't own our bodies and, ultimately, their gods property, and that makes it gods decision when and how we dying by killing ourselves. We are going against the quote, divine order that God has set up for the universe. Again, we are beholden to some quote. Divine order that God has established to take your own life is to violate that So what're, you starts start right there. What is this divine order that we're appealing to hear really, let's get to the bottom, This divine order is that, where behold into by Divine ordered Eugene mean the causal laws created by God? What he sang is Are we never allowed to take any sort of action for the sake of our own happiness, for fear of going against the divine order

We know when we're going against it and when we're not well. Obviously, that's ridiculous. You mark he's, got wouldn't get mad at you for taking medication when you're, sick or trying to get yourself better. If you were dying that can't be the divine order that we're talking about here is the divine order, just a set of behaviors its intended to make. happy, then, whom says what, if someone decides they'd be happier if they killed themselves? Certainly, when contradict the divine order, if that's what it is, is the divine order, just whatever God consents to, because in that case, God seems to be consenting to everything. We're doing I mean, after all, Hume says an omnipotent God could always choose to intervene and change the course of history. Apparently, does it all the time? So at least we know we're, not gonna get the divine order. If that's the metric you're using Goddess consenting to this,

or not. At this point we could say come on here: it's not picking on God. Maybe it's not God. Okay, maybe we don't have an obligation to God, but what about society um? Don't we have a moral obligation to stick around for society? Don't we owe it to our fellow countrymen to give and produce as much as we can for as long as we can given that we so willingly accepted the benefits of society for so long before, whom says? That's all well and good? Yes, but it reaches a limit right eventually get to be sixty years old, sometimes much younger tragically, and it becomes extremely painful for us to work. Should that person just continue working and abject suffering

workin themselves into the ground. Just for the sake of this obligation that they have the society. Would you call them and immoral percent if they didn't now at this point, come on him? Ok, I see what you're doing here. Devils advocate right. I see what you're saying suicides. Ok, we can actually live this way right I mean I mean if we don't tell whole world. That suicide is unthinkable. Did that it's absolutely wrong. What's to stop the whole world can kill himself. What was to start tomorrow from everyone just waken up and put my gun in their mouth? That's the slippery slope argue I guess if I was bill, O'Reilly I'd, feel like I really hammered home a good point right now. The more solid argument that somebody could make to hum here, the more interesting conversation might be. People that are young and stupid make rash immoral decisions. We know this, they make them all the time. How many of us out there how many teenagers have stolen a candy bar from seven eleven?

but at some point despite knowing that stealing is wrong. If we allow suicide to be on the table this time, what if a teenager makes a similar rash, immoral decision, but this time it's not a Snickers bar at stake, it's their own life at stake to that he would probably say know? What are we worried about with suicide? What what's so wrong with suicide? What are we worried is gonna eventually come about if we dare to say that suicide is a morally permissible thing, but it's not like the world's ever gonna be one where we go around attracted to the idea of suicide know we have a nap. Aversion to death as humans and what he says is if a right thinking person ever got to a place where they just truly didn't want to live anymore? They got to that place and arrived at that conclusion. In the face of that fear of death it ends,

Sight of that fear of death. They probably thought long and hard about that decision to even be able to transcend that natural wiring. Him would say as much as I want to compare the two: it's just not comparable to stealing a candy bar at seven. Eleven suicide takes courage to him. Suicide takes a clarity of mind for someone to do for him. Obviously, with the exceptions that we've already talked about full pair, though another enlightenment thinker, he also talks about this inherent fear of death as being a safeguard against people. Just randomly. You know, oops killed myself one night, Next has a very beautiful quote. He says quote: I have been a hundred times on the point of killing myself, but still was fond of life. This ridiculous weakness is perhaps one of our worst instincts, what can be more absurd than choosing to carry a burden that one really wants to throw to the ground to detest and yet to,

drive to preserve our existence to caress the serpent that devours us and hug him close to her bosom. Still has not into our hearts end quote he san! How crazy is it that even in cases where people hate their life and I mean truly hated the test, their very existence, they it will have a desire to live. They still have that instinct just persist at all costs. It is downright alone Go. Voltaire saying it's like caressing, the serpent, that's eating us! Why would we go on like that to take it wants to further Voltaire would say why would I say that someone's immoral for wanting to end that why don't they have full control over what they do with their body on that's. Let me ask you this question what's a new someone once a new someone and they said that they truly hated their life and what they want, and what than anything else in this entire world? What would make them happier than anything else is to just ended. All

let's say that you knew they were planning to do it on a specific night in a specific place. Would you, want some sort of police force, some sort of governing body to step in and stop them from doing it to restrain them to lock them up and force them to live in other words, do you believe that people not only have the right to take their own life if they so choose to, but they also have the right to not have people intervene? stop them from doing it if they want to. There are a lot of people to feel this way. If what you want more than anything else in this world is to kill yourself, these people say I I just don't think it's right for someone to be able to tell you up and force you to live. But the flip side is true as well right like. If you don't think somebody should be able to step in and stop you from committing suicide, then you also we can on the other side and say that you don't believe in doctors stepping in intervening and assisting people with the act of committing suicide, complicated national debate that we've been having in this country for quite a while? Now.

I think it's this question on whether we should allow people to intervene on one side or the other of this decision. I think this is one of the big things that stops progress in this area, but it's a tough question to answer. I'm not going to do it on the show, but the point that I think these enlightenment thinkers would want us to realize. Is that look it's so easy for us to relegate this activity of suicide down into terms of. I think death is bad. Therefore, suicide must also be bad, but here's the thing, many cultures, don't. See it. This way at all, sometimes the most dignified and best way that you can die is on your own terms, not in the terms of something else. Maybe what these enlightenment thinkers would want. You to ask is: maybe what you have a problem with is not the act of suicide itself as somebody voluntarily facilitating their own death, but something else that lies at the root of the intentions be kind suicide. Maybe it's something else, because not everyone commit suicide for the same reasons as a lot arrange right. Yes, some people do it out of depression

some people do it out of anger. They say I'm show you commit suicide like their punishing someone, but other people do it in the name of glory, there's other people to do it in the name of duty to their family and the people around them. As other people dogs, they believe they're they're, serving the creator of the universe, sacrificing themselves in the name of the thing that gave them life to begin with. Well, content see room for this sort of nuance on the subject now. Cop out, it was very simple. Suicide is but what's interesting, interesting about contest that in part of his argument, he gives an entirely secular account for why suicide is always wrong. This separate them from many the people have already talked about people were their appealing to So God that chiseled something into a mountain a thousand years ago, right, can think that if you even try to commit not even succeed at it, but even just trying to commit suicide is tantamount to quote discarding your humanity. End quote

you are now lower than the beasts ten lower than animals he's not just having a bad day here. Okay, he's not just throwing around a bunch of insults. No Kant really does think that if you try to commit suicide and you survive the act that we can treat you like an animal now, like dog biscuits being said, do you like who's out God boy? Who who is he back that boy in the whole world can says we should quote, treat him as a beast as a thing and to use him for our sport as we do a horse or a dog end quote now. Where is coming from here it seems kind of harsh right what

that says that by killing yourself, you're no longer treating yourself as a human. Being, I note your treating yourself as more of a thing, nothing more just a thing which the current has a lower status than a human being and apparently gets. If a dog biscuits and used for sport, he says quote: man can only dispose of things. Beasts are things in this sense, but man is not a thing, but a beast if he disposes of himself, he treats his value as that of a beast. He who so behaves who has no respect for human behavior, makes a thing of himself and quick. Now. The other argument that gives it, I think, is the really interesting one. It's this it just doesn't make sense that something could be a moral act while simultaneously the very act of doing it, precludes moral acts from being able to take place at all. It's a very interesting point here, in other words, com, saying that if you kill yourself you're dead, that's it you can't do,

moral things anymore can saying is why would it be a moral act to quote root out? The exact distance of morality in the world, in quote like. Why does that make sense? How could something be considered moral that prevent, since you from doing anything else, moral no by taking your own life robbing yourself of something you're? Robbing yourself of your rationality of ability to do your moral duty or you're robbing yourself of everything that distinguishes you as a human, making, free thinking choices this is the reason why on thinks, it's not only morally wrong to commit suicide, but by even trying to do so, you you have forfeited your human card handed over, get out your wallet hand over your card. You are not a human anymore, I'm going to do a bit of foreshadowing here. This whole conversation that we're having right now that we've been been having over the Hume episodes collectively it's coming to a climax,

This pole, conversation that we're having this episode is a micro to a much larger macro. That's going on in history right now. What can't inhuman doing here crafting a way of looking at human life that is so beautiful, so free, of these shackles that we burden ourselves with willingly to two no stuff all the time. Yet. Actually you know what I'll save that the point of this episode. The point of this episode is dont commit suicide. Thank you for listening I'll talk to you next time.