Today we discuss the work of John Rawls.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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the kind people that support the shown patron could never do this without you today,
but so does on John roles and his seminal work, a theory of justice. I hope you love the show today. So if you look at every philosopher, though we ve covered
bar in the show it be very easy to describe the differences between each other works, but a much more difficult
and illuminating question to ask is whether or not all the works of these very different philosophers have among them.
He route similarities. Now, of course, you could say things like they all
some sort of contribution to human thought. He could say they do.
I used language to express their big ideas, but another way to think about the answer to this question is to say that every group,
philosopher, in their own way, questioned the funding.
Mental assumptions that were present in the thinking of their time. That is a hallmark of a great philosopher.
Because, when seeking solutions to philosophical problems, casting aside
I'd the culture
or linguistic assumptions of a particular snapshot in time
very often leads philosophers of the next generation to understand how those assumptions have been limiting our ways of thinking about things, the full
ass. If we're going to talk about today, falls into this category and he's gonna
western an assumption that seem to others as rat,
go as it was dangerous, his name
was John roles, and this was
something that he questioned.
And human beings.
Actually live and flourish for any extended period of time. In liberal democratic societies, the
political paradigm of the enlightenment, liberal, democratic societies,
from by the many democracy liberal
in the sense that there is a strong focus on rational discourse. The acceptance about
I ideas
the legitimacy of political ideas being decided by having
conversations between competing ideas, but the best ideas rise to the top and direct the future,
city for the time being and if
Those prevailing ideas don't happen to be the ones you believe and you're supposed to accept those
ideas as part of a greater political process and work to defend Europe's
this means better the next time we're having a conversation. This was
brand new way of conducting politics when it was proposed in the enlightenment
and the assumption over the years by so many in the west has been that not only is this one of
greatest inheritances from the enlightenment,
dimension. They would say this is
the absolute greatest political system
that has ever been devised.
John Brawls is gonna question? Those assumptions he's gonna. Ask whether or not liberal
Attic societies might only be the greatest political system ever devised on paper. You might think of
There are political or economic theory.
That sounds great on paper, but when actually put into practice
you consider the nature of how human beings really behave. They failed
time and time again will
liberal democratic societies just another example of a delusional naive enlightenment era, ideal that can never
actually work for any real link time. What roses
Referencing is the long history of this type of society descending into various types of chaos, civil wars, fascism, class warfare, extreme violence between different groups exe.
In wealth inequality. Dozens of more examples in the ultimate question brawls is getting to is this when you can
under the track record of liberal democratic societies, no matter
How good they sound on paper
be. There is something about our nature as human beings that makes us effectively. Ink
capable of existing in this type of society for any real link, the time we can play nice for a while, we can shake
hands and disagree up to a point. But are we just him?
Well, they're always will there always be,
point of disagreement,
human beings, are willing to subvert the rational conversation in favour of using force to implement their ideas. Maybe this is
how human beings engage with each other politically, maybe the last few
hundred years has consisted of us having a bunch of mostly
It was conversations punctuated by moments of chaos whenever a truly important political issue comes up where human beings have to actually act and force is how they choose to act generations from now,
people look back on the way were conducting politics today and think of us all as naive lay them
We believe they can just talk things through clear
into this ideal from the enlightenment. That makes you feel really good, but doesn't ever
we work in practice. Can
Human beings only exist for any real link, the time anymore, tribal most of the time, nationalist political setting,
So it should be said right off the bat that John
all the answer to this question whether we can actually live for any length of time in these societies is yes, he is extremely optics
think about the future of liberal democratic society. He does not think
we're all being naive, but despite him off
We defending liberal democracy as we'll see
his willingness to ask these tough questions about the ascent,
since it we're making politically
like so many other great philosophers, questioning assumptions that will cement his place in history, so this becomes
the first major problem roles of space within his work has presented, but the long
story of failures and liberal democratic society? And yet he remains.
Grimly optimistic about liberal democratic society,
ex question, any reasonable person has to ask is why
has there been such a history of failure, if liberal them
piracy, so great
well. The answer to this question is that its largely Binny Miss placement of priorities. We claim
to be creating societies that are just ones that won't lead,
outcomes like these extreme tensions between groups, but
never really had a truly substantive conversation about what we really mean when we say that- and we say things like
liberty and justice for all, but what eggs
actually doing mean when we say society should be ensuring justice. This is not just an important question arose. This is the question.
He's, a very famous quote: recess quote: justice is deferred.
Virtue of social institutions, as truth is two systems of thought,
what money means there is in the same way, you would judge the legitimacy of a system of ideas based on how true it is which
the legitimacy of our social institutions based on how just they are now
what is roles talking about when he references justice
the lesser since he certainly talking about things like the criminal justice system or
balancing of the scales within a society, but if you wanted,
understand the scope of roses work? The farmer
crucial version of justice. That he's talking about is what he calls distributive justice. The idea
is this. We as individuals gather together in form groups, we call societies. We do this because it benefits us too
We worked together in groups were just far more efficient than is mere individuals, and because of this there's a lot
surplus value created
only exists because we're working together, the question becomes: how does this
surplus value get allocated or how should it be distributed as in distributive justice,
another name for the surplus values? What rules calls primary social goods and these
feel good, certainly include obvious things like income power and wealth, but rules would want to point out that our
teamwork, as a society produces value in
other areas that are a lot less intuitive and
These areas still need to be considered in this discussion, things like rights, liberties opportunities, etc. These
these primary social goods are
building blocks that rules are going to use to make his case is nineteen. Seventy one work a theory of justice kind of right there in the title, he's constructing a theory
of how we should distribute these trappings of society in the most just manner possible. Ross
that justice can be created by making sure that we have just institutions. In other words, if these,
structure of our society is just including our
situation in laws, then
we'll have a just society, so a bit of important
contacts to understand where rules is coming from with all this. Is it
he's doing his work in the modern, United States rules is a statistician,
and he's looking at the numbers, and he sees a huge,
disparity in the United States in terms of income inequality to him. This is a
failure of the liberal, democratic societies of the past and their silence on the topic,
distributive justice he wants to actually start having this conversation, anyone
begin at one of the most simple questions he could possibly ask about justice. The question is should in
qualities exist within a just society and charter
people out there. That would say that everybody should have the exact same thing, no matter how hard they work or what choices they make. Equality of outcome,
is often a desirable into a person that holds this position, but rules would say no. The fact is these enough
policies do exist within societies. In fact, there exists
since is inevitable the real interesting Phyllis
the whole discussion begins when we ask ourselves what type of
Quality is just what makes these initial,
it just in what
a do. We used to determine that rules is
looking at the numbers in the late sixties, United States,
what he sees as it there actual billionaires and multimillionaires Simon.
He's existing in a society with people who are homeless or an extreme poverty. Again, he wants to ask
Just is this society,
The same way. Somebody else might want to ask how true was a particularly
from of ideas
Can we say this is a just society with these two very different outcome,
being possible. What
mediately evident start thinking about this question. Is there a lot of different ways? You could answer it? For example, somebody
on the libertarian side of things could look at the homeless person next to the billinger, and they might say yes, this is a just state of affairs, because these
people have made very different choices to get to where they are in life and, ultimately, that's a good thing for society. They may say: look it's
the government's job to tell you how to live your life, the need we make
this much money per year or working this many hours or
the world. Is an unjust place. The government's jobs,
set the rules of the game and enforce them? Your job is to learn
how to play the game and figure out how you want to play it. Its own
wants to be a street drifter more power to them. If someone
I every second of their life. Otherwise, so they can see one billion dollars in the bank more power to them. We can't use income
as a direct measurement of equality, because the more relevant different
here is how these two are using their liberty rules might
this person. What, if the billionaire
got all their money by going door to door with an army and saying give me all your money or I'll kill you until they got a billion dollars, certainly
wouldn't see that as an example of justice, just because it hinged upon free choice and what
I also want to do here is just call for a more nuanced definition of
exactly justifies this inequality. Member his,
biggest concern is that he doesn't want to stop short here. Two roles. Liberal democracy is the best system and can work
for it to work, we need an exhaustive answer to this question, and maybe
wherefore to start with his to say that perhaps an inequality,
is just as long as it's me.
On some sort of work or effort that somebody is putting rules would agree with this
The question now becomes: how do we identify the instances where the inequality is based on effort and the ones words
made possible only by some sort of unfair advantage,
becomes a major question in a theory of justice, there's an interesting metaphor,
for unfair advantages in the modern world that, when a roles as colleagues named Cohen offers- and it goes like this
say, humanity reaches a point where we have a level of technology that we can travel vast distances through space and colonise other planets one day and
astronaut lands on one of these earth like planets plant.
The flag and the ground and says this one's. My
it's a couple years later astronaut too comes along in their ship breaks down. They need to find it
to survive on the planet the planet's completely empty, except
astronaut one in their little house for astronaut too, to ever be able to carve off
even a sliver of an existence on this planet, they will always
be at the mercy of astronaut won. The first astronaut will dictate all the terms of the agreements.
The deal's will almost certainly always favour the first astronaut simply because the first astronaut happened to get there first
this is a metaphor for how everybody enters into the world, who was
born into inherited wealth power or opportunity by complete chance,
Their lives are at the mercy of someone else was born into their place by complete chance, she can see
why it so important aroused a to further delineate between these inequalities that were arrived at because of work or effort and those made,
possible by essentially winning the lottery
winning the lottery. That moral arbitrariness is what makes it unfair to roles seat two roles- you're not
entitled to things that are morally arbitrary best
explain why he feels this way is to give the opposite example:
but so you're driving down the road, obeying all the traffic loss. There's a cat
they coming up on your right
through some random confluence of events, some guy trips over a dog and spills, a glass of water on the floor, at which point
when slips on the water and bumped into a chair, the chair falls over trips server and the server those flying into the street at the exact wrong time and, tragically, you hit the server and they die
Now as a society, we
would never think of you as a bad person. If that sort of thing happened, they just
system would never take a consequence, was route there and throw you in prison. For the rest, your life hell technically somebody died bad luck
in other words, it would be wrong for anyone to think it was just for you to own. The concert
whence of something that
solely because of a horrible stroke of luck rules would say:
when you're born into an estate. That's worth a billion dollars. You are equally not incomplete
ownership of things that are only in your life because of a good stroke of luck but
we'll see later. That doesn't mean it's necessarily the job of the government, to take it from me for Ross to be clear, you're, not a bad person for having the billion dollars
things are morally arbitrary. You can't have all of car the point and
and none of the bad or in other words, what this means for all
and none of the just or that words? What into
means for all this philosophy is that we need to decide on further criteria that determine how much of that inequality is just, and why probably a good point to state for the record that
inequalities extend far beyond just money that you're born into people are
and with all sorts of inequalities.
You can be borne really smart. You could be born
to a family that doesn't care about you
You could be born a really attractive person you could be bought
when into an area that is horrible resources for public schools, and you have virtually no chance of excelling. You can be born
to a family business where you're the heir apparent to taking Overman mom retires. You can have so much cry
I'm in your area that even leaving the house in trying to do anything with your life is terrifying. We,
are born, holding the stubs to this genetic
cultural lottery that will dictate the parameters of our existence and walls would say that if we truly
what the inequalities of our society to be based solely on a difference in work or effort. We,
to be willing to not asked people to own the bad or good circumstances if they happen to be born into another problem with actually
implementing anything along these lines should be obvious. Nobody
was born into a great situation, is going to vote for a power
see. That makes him give up the fruits of their advantages,
and nobody born into a bad situation is going to vote for a policy that makes them live out the rest of their life, just excepting the consequences of what's is essentially a server folly in front of them
touches on a larger problem of passing any kind of meaningful social reform. Most of the time, people are going to vote,
what benefits their particular demographic. Rich people vote, the
most of the rich poor people, the interests of the poor and, again this fact.
Stands to every advantage. Someone might have been born with, as reflected in the political process, so roses
faced with another problem in his work? Even if we could figure
which of these birthright advantages are just or unjust. How would we ever passed something
this in a liberal democracy to solve this problem roles creates one of the most influential thought experiments of the twentieth century,
his goal with the experiment is to show that the massive levels of inequality exists.
In the modern, United States. Simply
no better reason than because this aside,
the already exists that way powerful into
are already invested in the way that things are and meaningful
social change, is very difficult to actually carry out
the system being the way that it is. But he would ask what would society look like
if we had to start all over again, would be
structure society in the exact same way what things play out
exactly in the same way that they are now what if our position,
when formulating this new society was not that of astronaut too, from our example, before
instead, what if we were all simultaneously designing a society from the position of astronaut one that first day, that
landed on the planet. This is what rules refers to.
As the original position. Basically it's his version of the state of nature,
now imagine raw standing around on this new planet formulating how society should be structured roles
it's us to imagine a few other things as part of this thought, experiment.
Imagine your structuring the society through what he calls a veil of ignorance or you are
To decide how this society will be structured without knowing anything
about your position within that society wants its founded UK.
No, whether you're gonna be living in Beverly Hills or in the projects in New York City. You can't know your age, gender race,
sexual orientation. You can't know your. I q
athletic ability or charisma? You can't know what kind of family
you're gonna be born into Canada, whether you're gonna have some mental illness
makes everyday miserable human beings have.
The capacity to be rational, Rawls, wants to ask how
rational beings, without it,
vested interest in one group or another, create a society, but one thing for sure: Rawls thinks it wouldn't look
anything like the modern, United States.
Rational being- would look at the statistics and choose that structure, because it's much more
likely for you to be born into one of the many millions that struggle for it, one of a handful of
but with power and resources. In fact, Rawls thinks it
people consider the lies that some people in the inner city are forced to live in parts of the United States. The very fact you could pick
possibly get unlucky and be living. One of those lies is enough to make rash
people want to restructure society. So how would
national being structure it they would follow.
What is known as the maximum rule or the idea
that we would pick the structure of a society that provides the boy
situation for the least advantaged, within that society, in comparison to all other potential societies. Put another way. We pick the sea.
Not were the worst case scenario for a person is the best out of all the other,
possible worst case scenarios and other strategies
Rational beings? Would do this because they
No, whether or not there going to be the one in the
the actual least advantaged person in the entire society does allow.
Metaphors about this, but there's a petition
the common one- and I guess I'll, just laid out here- imagine you're having a pizza party and your asked by the people at the party to cut up the pizza. However, you want the catches. You can't
A witch piece of pizza is gonna, be yours. Until after you cut the pizza now you may cut up the peace
and a bigger pieces and smaller pieces. If that's what you chose to do, but one thing for sure here: you're gonna cut the pizza in a way
where, if you were to get the smallest piece it still
something you'd be satisfied receiving somebody might ask at this point
but why isn't the obvious choice here? Just a cut every piece of pizza, the exact same size, a type of socialist pizza, cutting.
Rules is not a fan of socialism; he respects what is trying to do
He thinks it achieves equality at the expense of everyone guest.
We're all equal under socialism, but we're all eat,
at a lower standard of living than is possible in a restructured capitalist system,
member? This is adhering to the maximum rule. What sister
produces a worst case scenario for a citizen. That is the best two roles.
The smallest piece of pizza and a revised capitalist structure is big.
Than the equal pieces provided by socialism is just a bigger peace
that we're coming from, but on the other
and two roles, we can't just have laissez faire free market capitalism because
doesn't take into account the moral arbitrariness of unfair, inherited advantages like intelligence status or wealth. The question for
is this, how do we structure
capitalism in away where it is true
Lee a rising tide? That's raising all the ships as opposed to just a few of them, but we can start by lay
out the criteria John roles prescribes for determining which these inherited inequalities are just or fair. In fact, that's the way he describes it flow
in the face of thousands of years of moral philosophy, joy
This is not an eye for an eye. Justice is not total equality. Justice is fairness. Two roles
What's an example of an inequality that exist. That is fair, but first it must adhere to strict rules. One
Social and economic inequalities must first be to everyone's advantage and to such
social and economic inequalities must be attached to positions that are equally open to all. So what the second rule rules
trying to protect against any sort of system with different classes. People are born into, or even figurative classes
positions in society reserved for a specific person or type of person, even if you're the least,
to banish person. You can still apply for the position
doesn't mean you're gonna get. It just means that if there is an uneasy,
position available? If we're going to accept that inequality is
the structure of our society. It should be open to everyone to apply, but
MRS referencing. Here is that historically there have been.
Ray primary ways. People are blocked from prestigious positions in a society. One is legal
were there actual legal barriers precluding a person from holding a position too
is by your birth status, which would make disqualified from
building a position because of something about how you were born, and the third road block is having the talent or effort to act.
Be able to accept the position. Rawls thinks age
society will stick to this third one, and it has only one
that do can be said to have true equality of opportunity. Now, the first rule that these
Inequalities must first be to everyone's advantage. This really is the
cornerstone of what rules would eventually call his quote:
system of liberal equality. End quote:
back to our person that inherited a billion dollars to illustrate what he means but say this person,
inherits a billion dollars and thence
in their life, investing in reinvesting that money to improve the world around them there
tons of jobs for the less advantaged. The enemy
technologies that improve the lives of the rest of the world they may offer scholarships?
People the couldn't otherwise afford to go to school and recruit them to work for the companies. They built store fronts that improve communities,
this is an example of an inequality that may exist, but it's
everyone's advantage, so it is pie
possible to inherit vast sums of money and still use it in a way that benefits others and makes it fair or just now
other handed the same person took that billion dollars and just
but it sit under a very large man
trust for their entire life. Will that wouldn't be to everyone's advantage? And at this point,
rules would be a fan of some type of heavy tax. To penalize the inaction, probably
by some type of government redistribution to the less advantaged. But
extends beyond just inherited money when Lebron James wins
the genetic lottery and his boy
without let us ism and talent that warrants him, making tens of millions of dollars a year when he uses his ass. Let us ISM to achieve and exalted status as a cultural icon that initially
Turkey is an example of justice because
abilities go on display and provide entertainment for millions of people
when someone's born with extreme intelligence, and they go on to graduate from a prestigious school and become the Tipp of the spear in some new research programme? There unequal pay
mission within society, as I thought leader, is justified because their research will, like
go on to improve the lives of the aggregate. This way of thinking
but inequalities within a society is more
oddly known as the difference principle
or that we should remove inequalities within a society as much as we can until
The removal of further inequalities would cause harm to
least advantaged
this is in contrast to the way we ve often thought about things before sometimes called
of the efficiency principle. The idea that
should find people in society that need help and help them as much as we can until helping
would cause harm to someone else. This is a completely different area. Focus the folk
for rules is always on ensuring the most we can for the least advantaged person as law,
is that insurance doesn't prevent us from. Can
limiting to society. Based on that,
sentence it shouldn't be too far of a leap to reveal that what rules is all
what doing with all this is provided?
philosophical justification for a modern, progressive income tax. We all have different.
Talents and abilities. Take an example, the people who will
You have to be born with extreme intelligence, who were also lucky
to be born into a family that nurtured that intelligence, who are also lucky
not to be born into an area where they had low crime and decent public schools, who also had the money and freedom to go to college were also healthy. Enough to not be in it
out of the hospital, their whole life, this person, who would without a doubt,
be an extremely impressive individual
standing on the shoulders of giants the contribution
of everyone in society has made anything that they ever accomplish even possible
how much less this person could have accomplished if they had to grow all their own food or
didn't have roads to efficiently travel on red, constantly keep watch to fend off criminals
through our own individual skill sets. We all look at
each other in a way.
This is why we want to incentivize people to become as talented as they possibly can to roles
We want to allow for unequal positions of pay or status, but the difference in my
or status is only justifiable if that difference is used to benefit the least advantaged among us or people like them. The difference principle
so these two rules that we talked about for what makes an inequality just that it must
b to everyone's advantage and be available
when a position open to all what these two things
ultimately boils down to is a quality,
opportunity and the different principle. These two things combined make up the tab.
That we have to run inequalities through to make sure that the inequality is just and Rolls thinks it
actionable way to apply. This is simply to start
looking around at society, findings
apples of inequalities and put them to the test. You know
feeling I get from reading a theory of justice is that we shouldn't be thinking of the least advantaged within society. As this annoying faceless pest, that's just sucking out.
Disproportionate amount of resources, the since
I get from leading roles is anyway
just to be thinking about members of our society, more likely
about members of our family, because maybe
your family, you have some variation of a tradition and everybody
its together and goes over the Grandma Beatrice House for the holidays right now,
grandma's getting older these days he's a hundred
seven years old,
doesn't get around as well as she used to she can't spend fifteen.
Where's toiling over a hot stove anymore? So what do we do? The kids all get together and you cook the meal for her these days and when it comes time for dinner and everyone sitting at the time,
there's an unspoken agreement that everybody
in the family gets first before anyone get seconds.
Wouldn't give grandma table scraps it. She could barely survive on and why
Imagine it's something to do with the fact that she had my parents
my parents had me
strange way. Nothing that I have
ever done in my life would be even possible without this woman and the contribution that she's made rules might say so too
with every member of our society. Even the least advantaged. Thank you for listening I'll talk to you next time.
Transcript generated on 2020-01-07.