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John anomalies. Arrow welcomes a new baby boy, Charlie favour out into the world, and we are just overjoyed for them in, and I quote, we start by their place and they got off in the hospital we drop that we owe their pop. We got to see Charlie from an appropriately distanced vantage point, and so I can confirm the early news reports from over the weekend. That Charlie is in fact adorable, and we can't wait You feel his sweet little brain with our liberal propaganda, but for the for the next week or so John, it's gonna take a little bit of time off to change, diapers and hang with Charlie instead of hate reading twitter. So here on the part today and now, if you're friends with the favor of family really any of them. You know that they don't just arrive on time. They get their early. Charlie is no exception. He arrived a couple of weeks before his due date, which is wonderful because he is happy and healthy in a perfect baby boy and who does not want that in your life as soon as possible, but it also means that,

of it is out this week for a long planned bit of rest to recharge. So I am your soul Monday, pod representative. Today, now, don't you even consider skipping this episode? We have less than a hundred days until the election we gotta stay focused, there's a lot of important stuff going on right now and we are thrilled to have an incredible gas co host, who you will love. His name is many Hassen many economists for the intercept he's the hosted of the deconstructed podcast in the present turn on the Al Jazeera English shows head to head not front. I guarantee you that you have seen clips of his interviews before he is known for dog id unrelenting questioning to the point where you often wonder like why on earth did this person agree to do many show

Did they not google him? First, but frankly it that's what I love about Mary. It doesn't matter for talking about Trump or Obama or the Democratic party. He pulls no punches. He suffers no fools and I promise you will love hearing from him. So here's organ to cover today when you talk about the state of the race, now that we have less than a hundred days to go. When I talk about how Cove it has reached, deepens the White House and finally forced Trump to make major changes to his campaign will get into the latest chrome. Iris relief negotiations in Congress. How Trump went from calling Joe Biden Soft on China as a strategy to like the mayor of Antigua? The lawn

our strategy in the politics of fascism. That seems to be emerging in some great advice from the washing posts for many about how we can learn from the mistakes in coverage of twenty sixteen and get it right and twenty twenty later in the patio here, an interview that John Favour recorded with Mother Joneses, ARI Berman about voting during the pandemic. Now that we are so close to election day to get things were, gets the news. First, don't miss lover to leave this week. Love attacked air courthouse but the best case, climate scenario in guy per annum came on for the return of ok stops. You know that will be funny, and then yesterday we kicked off our every last boat. We could action to fight back and make sure that every last vote is counted over this week. We're gonna be asking you guys to volunteer to donate, where you can then tomorrow, specifically to request your vote by male ballot

tomorrow is national vote by Male day. I didn't get you anything either. Don't worry about it, but if you had to vote, save America Dotcom Slash every last vote. You can request your ballot now and get it done early while you're there. You can see the text, young voters and swing states can tell them to do the same. This election is going to come down to every last vote and we cannot afford to lose a single one. We gotta work hard go to vote, save America dot com. Flash every last vote to find out other ways you can help and in thank you in advance for everything. You're doing. Ok, listen, The news Natty so great so great to have you show the show greatest, you from a zoom distance safely, safely. Zoom social distancing, my friend we have a hundred days until the election, and I bet missing that allowed me to which people want to throw up, but to them I say think back affair

years ago, two trumps inauguration and how you would have felt that moment to be just a few months away from sending this guy packing This is exciting stuff, so time for all of us get to work so maybe I thought we could start with just a quick snapshot of the state of the race, so the five hundred and thirty eight pulling a average has Biden up a points. That's obviously quite good. Trump's approval rating is about forty percent approved thirty. Six prove that is quite bad. Binds numbers in key swing states are strong to Fox news. I love that have Biden trumped up, poles nine points, yeah trust reports by nine points in Michigan thirteen point Minnesota eleven in Pennsylvania other pulls out Biden winning in Florida by as much as thirteen and b,

some up, five in Arizona. So look, that's obviously good, but that's you know snapshot in time. The question is why what why is Biden up was driving these numbers and the polling experts say. The answer is covered that Fox NEWS Paul we mentioned twenty. Nine percent of respondents said Cove. It is most important issues facing the country. Fifteen percent said the economy does not normal right. Usually, economy drives these elections and Harriet, and often CNN, argues that new in these were instances when a non economic issues driving the campaign, usually the candidate whose Bessie and is able to handle that problem. When so, I question is Betty: do you with that. Is this a covert election and the rest is noise? I mean P, Leah Covert election, a squeeze, it would be mad to say otherwise. I mean I do push back and I know you have on the show before as well against this idea of its. Of adversity economy even in pulling terms. For me, the economy is covert covert. Is the economy the vote. Yet there is no growth. There is no employment issues without dealing with the current of ours, so I was

and this kind of weird dichotomy that people trying to present the stark choice, giving the covert nineteenth of bondage economies about wealth. I want forty me Americans or whatever it is to get the jobs bag, which means you have to tackle the pandemic. So I don't, I don't buy for a start, the weights framed by pollsters all my commentators but clearly cove. It is from the people's minds, especially now this summer, with it can a raging back in some of these sunbelt states, etc. But even without coverlet, be cleared. Donald Trump is historically unpopular president, whichever d I was gonna. Take him on this year. Even if it wasn't Joe Biden even if there was no pandemic, would have been a very good position to take him down and that's just a reality, what we did on the left is we can over compensated. We didn't see him coming in twenty six in most of all of us know the Keith Alison's and Michael Moors. You said he could win But many of us, myself included, thought he wouldn't when you couldn't win and I think was a kind of ptsd of tobacco that and we overcompensate, we went from saying he's a joke. You can't win to say he can't be beaten. Even now. Friends of my April

Google, friends might be were not involved in journalism, media politics average Joe. You talked about lifted up trumps, one he's gonna get real discussion. Minor The community's muslim circles, brown circles that I've been there's a real features and gonna win again- and I cannot say that's not true- actually the evidence suggests he's more likely to lose the wind. That doesn't mean you can't win. Of course you can win. Anything is possible the Republicans of the masters of cheating. But when you look appalling, he's historically unpopular, are the only Harry Truman comes even close to him in terms of unpopularity sitting president going for re election, and he was still ten point more popular than Trump and managed to get reelected and anti forty eight. I think you know, he's, had a consistent. What what's is forty percent thirty eight percent yeah but sailing unless your Erasmus and he can't break forty on any any particular grand day. So you know, unheard of his wealth. Most president, he looks in a very weak position why part be grown of ours partly as a historic in popular at unpopularity incompetence, partly

Joe Biden, I was a critic of Joe Biden. I didn't want him to be the democratic presidential nominee, but to think happened with Joe Biden. That's helped number one. He does get to kind of not have to have a high profile in do rallies, speak a lock is the more Joe Biden speaks the more mistakes. He makes its great that he is, she doing that. Much in Trump is kind of doing all the speaking in shooting himself in the foot. That's a good thing that it's not National campaigns have definitely good for Joe Biden. Second issue, with Biden is even those of us who were opposed to buy always knew that he had a huge advantage, one that we don't like it's just the world we live in, which, if he's in a white guy at all, guy has automatic advantages in a race against Donald Trump in Republika by the Republic of Guinea. Playbook Tommy, as we know as you and I have discussed on our shows many a time- is racism. Sexism, black guy racism, woman sexism. What do you do when it's not a black woman? They have nothing left in their play, but they are turning the pages didn't know where to go there, always a marxist that doesn't want nobody's. Nobody believes Joe Biden, ISM artists,

so you know they really. Oh he's he's easier, got dementia well, who else has to Madeira a person woman, man, camera tv, see, I can be president so TAT, their playbook doesnt work and I think that's helped Biden hugely out in the Republicans, the ones or on the defensive data. One flailing right now with no real strategy come November and a completely insane person the wires making everything worse for them. Look. I do. I do worry, like a covenant happened that with a strong economy, I think this would have been a closer tougher aid effort. Now I had this. I have the PTSD you're talking about in one way and try to work around. It is look at governors, rights or states like Arizona taxes for that you mentioned they didn't take covered seriously. There really struggling now their governors, do Gregg Abbot, Rhonda Santas their approval ratings, they just tangier. Meanwhile, Roy North Carolina who took a ton of heat from tromp because you wouldn't let the republican Convention happen in Charlotte, with no social distancing is now up. Twenty points in his campaign is approval. Is it

even now, even of a nuisance Democrat in California in California is one of those states is one of the few non Republican that states doing really really really badly right. Now, even they already have a tight. Let run desensitize because, while California badly its kid? The governors not in Lala Land, is not denying yes deny reality. I think even republic and informative woken up to the fact that they have a governor who is denying reality. You see that the pulling his approval rating, the creating even Republicans in Florida in big numbers, are starting to support things like a mosque mandate, I think that's really an interesting development Gallagher. I share your frustration with this idiotic political debate about the economy or covered its both in that's. Only we're gonna save lives. Now. Look I think, felicity, heard abortionist on this wind up right like a lock and happened between now and election day. We know that some histories and contacts it will humble me like at this point. Twenty sixteen Wiki weeks had dump thus the emails. The call me letter was months away this. Two thousand eight Lehman brothers was about a month and a half away from bankruptcy. Ninety

eight. At this time, Dukakis was winning by double digits. The infamous tank photo had not yet happened so so lots of your time writing and we live in and we live in a crazy a time than any of those election is where This year's agenda changes by the hour, let alone the day, so I'm not complacent at all anything can happen in the next ninety nine ninety eight days. Definitely If you'd tell me six months ago, the biggest story it would be a pandemic. We wouldn't have known that Verona virus in January, MID January, late January, if you told me during the corona virus, high marks actually grown arise when we taken over in the news agenda by anti racism protests with George flowing we didn't see that coming either. So anything grappled. Why worry most? but tell me I don't know your share. My worry here is: is foreign war could could the October surprise me. Something to do with IRAN, we're not following the uranium crisis, which is ongoing in the back of our stuff, going on there in terms of hush point, so anything can happen. Unfortunately, all I'm saying is as of today,

Joe Biden set a very strong position of the election, while today billions lied, victory and he's not Hillary Clinton, rightly or wrongly, arrogant, faced unfair majority, but the reality is Biden is more likely than Hilary, and his team is more trustworthy and not thing, that's right or wrong, buddy scene of more trustworthy than Hilary, and that's you know that wasn't the case in the summer of twenty sixteen I share your anxiety about around some argue: we are or someone, engaged in a low wage war with IRAN, because things keep exploding every couple of days, but on the other, to a bigger topic, but one big thing ahead of us. Many is the BP selection. You ve been making the case that did the state of the race now Biden, strength means he should pick Elizabeth born why's that, like what's the pitch for warned, you think right now. I think the pitch forlorn, very straightforward, eights, three, very simple point number one. She is best prepared to be president on day one bite and says that is number one great

I agree with him that should be the number one quarter and when you pick a vps heartbeat away from the presidency and the president himself may have heart, issues had issued all sorts of issues at some point. Yes, you want someone who can take over a moment's loads and can do the job that person is undoubtedly Elizabeth warrant. A bite and people are talking about. Roosevelt in rhetoric. He's gonna, be another Sdr believe that when I see it, but there is a person can turn Roosevelt in rhetoric into reality. That's Elizabeth work, so that person should in the White House side. A bite and ready to take over a moment's notice execute a clear vision. Number two: she would boost him in the polls. You need to go back to me. Talking about if you are still worried about buying in some of those ring states. If you look at a pole, done by you go for data, for progress, makes it very clear amongst persuadable voters who still have it. The mines and bite and in battleground states warrant is the candidate would help them make other world would do most to get them borne by denomination. That's what the polling shows more than any other candidate. And finally, yes, there is pressure for persons of color to be on the ticket. I get

person of color, I or white tickets. Common Harris amongst the the black women being considered will probably be the best bet. We're going down that road, but on the other hand I believe with warrant would be best in terms of policies for minority communities and vote to say they prefer warrant any other candidates, including common areas. Up with abolishes, don't shoot the messenger there's a good A good relevant data points, two thoughts. I respond wine. I have no idea who, by there's gonna pay, Yet I do think that the Work- things are going to get for trump are the more likely. It will be that he jettisoned my pants to try to shake things. Up and swap out someone new on the ticket. So let's get that rumour going. Let's get that won over to offences. House too, I thought it was interesting to wear this morning's he reported politico about Comma Harris and her VP prospects. You just mentioned Just as that, many environs can't think that on paper, she's the most qualified she's, the obvious choice, but some specifically Senator Chris Dodd, former kind

Senator who's on the Bp Search committee? He questions her loyalty to Biden. This all dates back that first debate in twenty nineteen, when Common Harris hammered Biden on the issue of bussing in school integration, I knew was a tough night, the quota, not Pisa awful about you know she should be more apologetic. She should be more. Trite type language from creates. All I'm not gonna help Biden at all this idea in abundance or associated with our old white boys club you know. I have a lot of criticism common iris. I got attacked by the cave, I've all the time for daring to bring up her prosecutor, real, recording California, which I think is bad and I think will hurt her in the long term. But you know if you I reject come hours, reject or on the substance, don't reject on bullshit grounds. I listen, don't Christophe, be the one who rejects common Harris, especially in this moment of time, Christophe who's got all sorts of issued me two issues that we Prodi have time to get into he's all sorts of Wall Street issues that we have time to get into he's. The last person should be turning Joe Biden, who should be there,

vice presidential candidate. Unfortunately, given bite and kind of the people around them in his own sensibilities, that is what is going to come down designed to combat the policy. He set himself partners that somebody jealously You worked for Obama Bite said. You know I had this great relations bar. He wants that chemistry again that he believed he had. We broke Obama which again causes problems of people. Elizabeth Warren, was a long history of clashing with buying, which is why I was the better man They probably won't pick Elizabeth Warren, sadly, because he's clash with a far too many times, although apparently the reporting suggested human work now speaking once every seven to ten days and she raised more money for him than any other person other than Barack Obama. So maybe that will influence fingers crossed that one fluent him, but yet it's between Warren and commentaries. Those are the two most qualified and obvious candidates. I think if you went anywhere else, that would be weird and I'd love to see the reasoning for it. I too find it interesting to hear that worn in buying your talking that often I also knew that political story mentioned by common Harris. I wrote my eyes you anything that courts a whole bunch of donors, that's a good rule of thumb in politics,

of donors, that's a good rule of thumb in politics, but one last quickly on the VP than we have seen over the role of a vice presidential candidate in election. All the data shows the vice presidential pigs, don't really influence. Elections were russian more be worried about Joe Biden, is going to be almost certainly a one time. President. You know, God bless is healthy, Lhasa, full four years. Maybe he doesn't he's old he's got health issues. Anyone let down, I would say this have Bernie Sounds- was a candidate to Unita This presents very to step into the breach and take over just think you really not just picking VP this time, you're picking a president in waiting and therefore there should be much more consideration given to the policy record. The substance experience not just how this will play in November, Mary, how dare you in substance into this conversation, I'm I'm offended by now. I totally agree with you. The stakes are higher than ever in a lot of ways. Because of that, the role that person will fill up, ok, that is the core of our selection. Let's talk about it for a minute. As of this morning, we are just under four point: three million confirmed cases in the: U S, dearly hundred eighty thousand deaths. Today we learned that

Bert, O Brien trumps. National security adviser has the corona virus. So many linger on this news for a minute, CNN, and ceased avarice. People who work for O Brien learned that he has covered for news reports. O Brien just gotten back from meetings in Europe with the french, british and german official, so good at him, too Read this thing around there the White House to trying to claim that there is no risk to the president or VP. I dont believe them for a second Nettie terms. I got it his sons girlfriend got it secret service agents, gotta staffers got it now, stash askew device or how the hell is Trump avoided. Getting this thing I dont get. It is a great questions, the question We want to ask everyone uneven apolitical people investments. How is he dodged moment, both in our own and his team came to visit from rather beginning they all tested positive, come top, doesn't have it this guy, doesn't where mask he shakes hands we know we. He gets everyone tested who comes near the hypocrisy. Disguises testing is overrated and yet

when it comes near and has to be tested. He himself, according to his press, actually gets tested multiple times a day, the hypocrisy of our unity to what would elite is man? That's a definition of illegal lasting for me not for you, so he pretends himself in that way. But, yes, even then, how is it not crept through too? I don't know, there's a theory on twitter amongst many that he did have it and they covered it up No, I can't comment on such things, but it is bizarre and this whole rubber branding? You know that story about, he's getting it, but then going home last week and not telling the annex c staff is about and then finding out for them. Yet another reminder that he, like everyone else worsens, whereas is a really shitty person right in general, twenty seventeen? I think I was one of the first economists to describe this administration of their catches stop receive rule. The worst people and We time as a crisis as a reminder that the citizens are focusing on Rob. I want to think I want to be a good person in the robber I disagree with him. I don't like him he's ok, you know he carries water for a fascist, but I wish him well with his health

that is something I think is what a piece of shit he screwed every so often we may have infected who don't get tested multiple times a day. Let the president! So that's what I mean did just horrible horrible p And yes, I dont know how trumps avoided it he's risk the lives of so many people in Tulsa, secret service agents, tested positive organizers on the day positive and even now in Florida with the convention. That was supposed to happen until very recently he was going this the lives of all these people, because he's a sociopath doesn't care about human life and would happily sacrifice thousands of his own voters in order to get a good, Photoshop, yeah I'm glad you're out the convention's. That's what I want to talk about next, I just like if the national You guys are isn't meeting with the President several times a day. That is very weird. There are things they should be talking about we're in wars right now to if that idiot went to Europe infected Angela Merkel. I'm going to lose my shit and act today away from her. Yet

should be an act of war. Here we go what, but anyway around a Chinese. If you go on the batch, far right, conspiracy circuit their claim, China deliberately infected the well. Let people leave China knowingly that they could transmit the virus. What the Trump administrations guilty of the same thing, both in Oklahoma, both in terms of deporting people with, nineteen to Guatemala who they knew at both in terms of O Brien, going to Europe, knowing he might have in spreading the irresponsibility of these people, not just tromp mammoth, always enable is around the rubber abroad. Was it was until recently, a mainstream republic and not a kind of crazy maritime and yet look. He behaves in the same way. The disrespect, the stupidity. Ok aside, what the convention, because things it's hard to overstate what a disaster this process has been. The Republicans first raised and spent used in spent around thirty eight million dollars to set up their convention and Charlotte North Carolina. Before deciding they had to move it to Florida, so that money has gone. It is lit on fire. It has been burned Florida governor Rhonda scientists who suffers

my condition, we call resting dumb face, told Trump that it would be no problem to Hosty. Then Florida he promised them. He wouldn't make them more mass or door social distance, and now the sentences leadership is a big reason. Why cases our exploding in for which gets us to last week. Trump abruptly announced that the convention was cancelled, He tried to portray that decision as being about safety, but the reality is that the officials and Jacksonville didn't want them there. The attendees were involved Ike Book Hotel rooms and vendors and lose more money. So this is more about logistics. Many, the bigger question I have is: do we think. Finally, cancelling the convention hurts tromp that have an advantage if was to have a convention in Biden. Didn't I didn't hurt zoom in one central way, which is the only thing he's ever been good at, and I use good in a very lucent. The reality is the show mention is the television events. You know? We all know that he was certainly helped by CNN Running hours of uncritical, uninterrupted live coverage of his rallies in twenty fifteen and two thousand and sixteen even suck his kind

in addition, the done that and this time round that's what his plan was to do again was to turn up to rallies, say all sorts of shit get his base worked up. Don't make the news agenda because we know Donald Trump is the number one news assignment editor in America? He can decide the days news headlines in a way that no one else can no previous presidencies have that kind of grip. Over the daily region, simply by saying map shit at events like an hour in sea convention or a Tulsa rally. I think that has heard of that's why he was so hell bent with doing because he knew he needed it. As one can last gasp effort reviving what looks like a fool the campaign they were so desperate? Tommy did You see the store in Washington, both a one point. Our currency officials told city officials. Could they put attend. These on a cruise ship, how are you fucking cruise ship? I mean this is where the virus began for want of Americans February and March on crucial, I mean imagine the Dumbness Cacus Stop Chrissy Rule by the worst people that we can have a combined,

we're, not just gonna endanger you in indoor holding out all no more without We want ship whose idea was I mean absurd, so the levels of absurdity levels of desperation, but we also see the trump quote that he gave, cities cancelling the keynote inject simply said. I quote, I could see the media saying: oh, this is very and unsafe. I don't want to be in that position. The media save for the media won't say that he's thinking. If I'd say it's the media, would accuse, falsely of it being unsafe. So even Jerry mountaineers, doing something semi responsible as usual. He shoots himself in the foot by revealing he's a complete fraud and he's not actually take it seriously, and I and other important quota all of your listeners in view is to really take on board the damning but while we should be in every democratic between now November, Dave Call who is not a flaming liberal, advise it to Texas Governor Gregg Abbot said, and I quote, the president got bored with it being good. Nineteen, the president,

bored with it. So the Texas governor staff had to just talk to my pencil trumped, want to talk to many anymore about what was happening intact. For me, that is the most damaging and clear we all know to be true, but to hear from the mouth of loyal, Texas Republican is interesting. Yeah yeah, I imagine even casual observers, will look it what's happening and think this has been incredibly mismanaged in why earth are we give this guy a shot at managing the country? Again, I mean look at it still fast leaving here, we are, weeks away it sounds like the Republicans are still going to kick their thing off in Charlotte. Trumpet still give some keynote at some point. The rest is a mess. I saw detail in some of the reporting about the Tik Tok and how they came. This decision is that the way, plans to to adapt to not having a convention and answer of keep the media spotlight on him. Saying look our persuadable voters I watch morning network tv shows so trumpet be out on more of those. I don't know that's a good idea, because things

I ve when he raises is safe space. Yes, so that suggested without contradiction. Suddenly, while he's good at the rallies and why they ve helped him in the past, when it comes particularly to the corona virus, he has been so bad, so self destructive, so self defeating. If you just shut his mouth, he would have a better smaller deficit in the polls. Joe Biden, that's the advantage right now by them not say as much tromp, saying loads, bring about the briefing madness. Why would any adviser trump to go to get? One good days had learned from Idiot Journalising change in tone, not worth the mad shit he's gonna say between now and November. We know he can't help himself. He, even if he had a half a good day, will be cancelled out by seven days about doing any kind of rally doing any kind of free flowing. Remember how many weeks ago was was ramp. Gate drama that region a rally wanted is rather than just fifty two in its fifty minutes over

I rarely talking about how, though it was a slick, ram banana shiny shoes and he had to. I was just that's back chick crazy, you're gonna show that to the world in America, in the run up to an election, adjusting gray, bring it on. I think he's gonna. Just every time we run does mouth its painful to watch but is actually finally seeming to be self destructive. With suburban women with independent voters, etc, yeah yeah great no again, and that the details of a democratic state are starting to weed out today. Stephanie, utter a democratic strategist in charge of producing the Democrats of that says it basically entitled virtual they rolled out some themes, but my question anyway, long gone are the days of a broker convention and real news happening at these things. It is scripted events that speakers some of them are newsworthy right today is the sixtyth anniversary of Obama's two thousand for conventions speech, which was a hell of a night for me and launched his political career. Do you think that these were at all events can or should get the same amount of coverage this year, and I may be more importantly, to recover

conventions in a way that fundamentally stupid here and in the? U S, I would cover all conventions conferences. I mean I've covered british party politics from the: U S and twenty fifteen, I the annual Labour Party Conservative Party conference in the UK. They do every year that it Everyone knew the whole thing was a ridiculous. It was just an excuse for journalists to get drunk and politicians to get drunk and some people to sleep tonight. And I remember the? U S and I went to the twenty sixteen conventions I went to our and see the UN's is just yeah: it's not substantially. We know that it's not about substance, the speeches matter. Obviously on them

but you were the new candidate unveiling them. I alone can fix it. Member that I was his classic fascist one line that that's when he first unveiled is kind of fascist vision of America today to the world, and I think it's not gonna make a big deal whether its remote on physical is just not the reality. Is we have a pandemic, killing a thousand people a day in this country? We need to focus on that. If people are, the democratic convention can focus on that and come up with some good ideas and remind us that they are actually credible when it comes to the issue in the way that the other side's fine, let's cover it, but otherwise really matter to me too. What, whether zoom or in person, I just don't see that the Abu Yang Look, I've been a few measures myself like they can be found parties can organise it. It's good to hear from Kennedy directly it's good to hear from up and coming voices in the party, but these things come sixty seventy eighty million dollars to pull off. I think they're, probably the number one symbol of how the EU s political process is too long to expensive, too much of a spectacle stage manage, that you mentioned is that broken conventions, twenty twenty six

two weeks ago, you and I would have been on this podcast talk about. Is it going to be a broken convention, Bernie very right? How quickly that went away now we're talking about virtual conventions. Web items ordeal nominees been anomaly for weeks. It's all a formality, get on with it, bring on November YA. Get this thing over Gatwick agreed, Timor, quite things on uncover. It's like the great thing about cancelling you're convention is. Is you have more time first? it's in leisure, from play, golf or the tune. Any time over the weekend, including around Brett Farm. He played Catch Mariana Rivera at the White House last week, ostensibly to prepare to throughout the first picture, Yankee Stadium in August, which he then cancelled many risks. Since twitter people like me, we have long raged about trumps golf had it in the hypocrisy, given his attacks on Obama to date, no has given a shit in terms of the electorate. Is that chain because of the pandemic. Do you think these things are more salient now? When you see Trump and Bread farm adieu, I do and I, like you- I've been screaming about the Gulf since day one, but the pandemic report at home in the way too

I've tweeted about its endlessly about the normalization of trumps, complete application of responsibility. The way he just has made it normal to turn up in his own property. Is you don't just by Gulf? He plays gulf at his own properties. We make money out of here Gulf, which is the crucial point, and how he's normalized, in other reports study a few weeks ago that he spent fuel it spent a year of his presidency. Three hundred and sixty five days at his property playing golf or doing other things they probably alone, that got normalized accept defeat, is normalized letting you do about it. But I do think you make an interesting point during the virus this period, yes, people lock down unable to see loved ones and able to play sports unable to relax with their friends cancelling events cancelling travel plans. Yet this guy was tested multiple times a day, doesnt where a mouse turns up like clockwork at his properties every weekend, Mama them whether a matter what's happening to plug the thousand people five days weeks it on the other. We can five straight days of work

thousand people or more dead in America. This guy turns out with his ridiculous thumbs up next to that guy. Next to the quarterback at his gulf calls, I mean Tommy, you ve worked government you what's left, would can any same press person working for politicians say. That's a good idea, Mr Present take that an extra tweet no, nobody would in any other normal climate for any other normal politician, republican or Democrats. He does this because he gets away with, hopefully he's not getting away annoys me: is the only one get away with it unless we talk about it, but not just us based political opponents- and you know the Lincoln it has been doing. These amazing attack adds I'm not a fan of the older people behind it. Obviously some on the left, but I don't believe that criticising add to select ads I just don't understand why we have more outlet that from Democrats from the policies and Schuman and environs of this world and binding dungeon, but I've seen, but I see more than I do want to see people dying from playing golf guess. I do believe that would be sailing and twenty twenty yeah it. I think you're

I think we'll get there you're the other major thing happening over the weekend and right now. Frankly, it is the ongoing congressional negotiations over covert relief and we had the innocent publicans want to cut these supplemental unemployment benefit. From six hundred dollars a week to two hundred a week until states concrete a system where figure out how to cap your benefited. Seventy percent of yes hideous pay towards noting from some labour secretary had previously said that creating a system like that is impossibly complex. It's basically unworkable and state already having a hard time managing the massive influx of people who are unemployed, Mcconnell is also how ban on passing liability protections for businesses schools. So many like things getting dire right benefits have expired, piano struggling the negotiations are mess. What do you think policy should do here when offered this skinny plan that a sort of a half assed benefit along. We say a liability protection for businesses

easy for me to say, but I would say rejected, and I know there's been an argument about rejection since day, one since the first piece of legislation and in in march- and there was a debate then, and the argument from democratic, which was a good argument. I'm not dismissing the argument, which was people need help now now is not the time for making political point or grandstanding. Now is the time to get help. Some of us have find that and again number two second piece of legislation. Third piece of legislation and other air sea and others have pointed out how many times we kicked the bowl down. There have been times. We say you know what next time next time we'll take a stand, at what point you say you know what we cannot sign of. This is a disgrace. It's an insult people need proper help. Not scraps from the table. Why you? While you support corporations and billionaires, and only works. Of course, I'm into two parts running. You can only reject something if you're there. Willing to go to the country and fight like hell to say why you rejected and why everyone should be on the phone and indiscreet pushing back against that ridiculous legislation. The problem is, most people Tommy, you listen

The public policy of America, listeners deconstructed, might be following politics by the average American dumped the average American does not watch. The news does not look at the content of legislation, so the imp they'll get a check with Trump, very clever, under the deck with name great here about the twelve check and they They re doing that surprise, surprise, but Maybe now about the evictions have been Arend to themselves very with their errand to them. Wherever moratorium ended at the weekend that the six hundred dollars ended weekend, it's gone, the we came, the deadlines came and went Mitch. Mcconnell took a break. The Senate went home last week. Shamefully, I take shamefully. That amount is, though, shames of regional, shamefully, but the problem is that you have to build a fight Tommy, and that requires a different mindset which I just don't believe magical as you ass. I think she's too much of a compromise. I've been a critic of our leadership for a long time. You know not is not the right leadership for the time wherein you're not just facing fascism and why nationalism, but yes, your facing humanitarian crisis. That only word for it. It's a humanity. We don't want to use that phrase because we apply that developing countries, but it's a humanitarian crisis when people are losing their homes losing it.

Lining up food banks and that requires a much stronger response. Steve merchant came over the weekend. I picked up a quote before I came to talk to we're not going to use taxpayers money to pay people more to stay at home. So Steve money who, like everyone from child, was born with a silver shovel and his mouth. He was born we're Goldman Sachs Partner, his dad, he self became a multi millionaire Goldman Sachs Partner and is now grotesquely lecturing Americans on how they should survive on sky and when he says, by the way, we're not gonna use taxpayers money to pay people stay. The people stay home attacks, prayers to you idiot right right. Oh, this is a problem. The damage caused- and this is the perfect opportunity we talk so much about populism or trump. You know you ve managed to get working. Poor people angry DC, anger at the swamp, angry corporations. Well, this is a moment for Democrats see these people are the elites they order Marie Antoinette of about time. The crucial isn't in the the trumps,

come down in November. Now except this shit that their shovelling towards you have four hundred bucks or while they give half a trillion dollars to corporations. No questions asked. No. I don't want you just keep accepting one Mcconnell bill after I don't I got a guy, I think a bad bill that is a compromise, will actually harm people and look Republicans usually win spite when they have lots of time and they of corporate money too, to mess them like bats. Are you end up with the inheritance tax being framed as about farmers and not about Don Junior. People to buy a second beach house right. So public opinion is with Democrats here, Lindsey Graham said that half of Republicans are going to vote no on end additional stimulus. That means Republicans need a lot of democratic votes in the Republicans own. Whatever happens, I agree you I policy to go to the mattresses right. The TED cruises also out there saying that unemployment benefits are keeping people at all. When they should be working, say: hey TED, that's the point! The pending is worse now than before. We have to get the virus

control. The only response to TED crews should be sorry record numbers of people. I in Texas, more people died in Houston in the month of July than in the previous formats TED Crew, shut your mouth and deal with people dying in Texas. We don't need your commentary on unemployment benefits deal with your state. That is now. I want to be at the centre of the global krona virus crisis. And I think the problem is, though, Tommy Nancy Police. In a lot these Democrats, I often feel like witness to ask them to do this because it's just not who they are then mindset there instead about politics are always left he's right, sort about donor money, that's a fact and no doubt about I'm on the left. I believe this thought much. You know big money in politics, but is also about who they are, I think a dna they just take. They grow up in politics. They do Dixon away, which is inherently cautious. They come on it from position which is Democrats are always in a defensive crouch always trying to funds middle ground. You even I've Democrats now talking about how do we pay for this Democrats saying this? I want a shoe. Was right Now you're saying that seriously

premium of Europe all came to them in conference said you know what you're doing, heroes. You know it's not going to pass. It's a messaging bill. Therefore, best message possible put my proposal to cover everyone, salary hundred percent until this crisis love. Which is what I done in some european countries policies alone and there over this and many other Democrats, and nobody can it or how do we pay for it? That's bullshit seriously. Now is the time to go back, go bigger. Gotta homes are logically shape. Serve you just go home. You're not going to save the american people from the worst humanitarian crisis in living memory. Yes, I could not care less about how we are going to pay, this right. Now, I'm going to don't either does the key point here they don't dont and they never well he's. Never. Will save America is brought you by open farm share. Your personal experience with feeding your pets. What what I'm over? What is it? What is a well?

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the mayor of in tv right, and so what do they want? Or message hey, my minute? Well, no anti for them. You know Joe, but so I just Two raises because I know you know you and I both terawatt about foreign policy and whiskers may not realised that Trump is dramatically ratcheted up tensions with China lately right started with the work on virus rhetoric, but there have been reports that the White US wants to buy. And all Chinese Communist Party members from travelling to the? U S, that's an estimated nine two million people last week, the? U S ordered close the Chinese Consulate General Office in Houston, Texas, claiming as part of an espionage ring. It probably was, but we, just now the Chinese say they will reciprocate and closer. U S, Vassili The administration has been delivering a series of speeches about China, including one by my compare where he said quote. The free world must triumph over this new tyranny, Chad a bit of an act. Evil vibe me many big to anyone make this escalation from the trunk administration. And if you have advice for what they should,

be doing. I'm happy to hear that. I know it's a very hard problem, so it's a worrying time. No doubt about that. Relations between the two countries are a low point. Some are saying you know, there's not being this bad, a relation between the? U S in China, since the late nineteenth Seventys when relate diplomatic relations with normalized between the two countries mentioned, might compare. You gave a speech at the Nixon, I've places, Nixon yeah to China, basic disowning, the approach of Nixon and Ford and Bush senior and other presidents. Basically, China, exploited engagement got what it wanted, screwed everyone over, which is not a fair description of what has happened over the last forty years at all sounding axis of evil is sounding regime change. This coming Thursday Ray change in Iraq or Libya is wondering regime change in Beijing. That's it! That's a big big talk back to become like compare

is very worrying. Many of us worry about a conflict between the two countries. Even accidental unwitting conflict between the two sides would be disastrous for the world and for the two countries, but you know. The problem, of course, is that there is no strategy as usual, so promptly becoming noises. But what's this plan to go to war? No, of course not. What are we actually wanted to buy the band. Ninety two million people caught up in a band. Ninety, do you combine ninety two million we ve got from solutions? Everything is trying by terrorism bad Muslims. China will The Chinese are ridiculous gesture. I am all for targeted sanctions, actually Trump sign targeted sanctions, legislation against chinese Party officials, Chinese Communist Party officials, who have been directly linked to were involved in the crimes against the weakest and change would you have talked about before me? There's a cultural genocide, what's being called a demographic genocide going on in changing province, up to a million people, maybe in camps being brainwash? tortured Howard against their will, AP just had a story. A few days ago, a story

about. We go women being forced to undergo abortions full sterilizations. Of drug Coney in inhuman response by the Chinese to what they call the problem of the weakest. All Muslims in changing Betty Copper Population force, that is, genocide right as just trying to destroy a minority population, so the world has to do so about. It has to say something on the Trump administration. Belatedly has come to this and said you know we can put bringin sanctions, we're gonna target chinese officials. A lot of right wing is of jump on the bundling and tell me if you look at twitter, these have been Shapiro Unko they're talking about we go. Muslims are first Muslims. Any right wing is ever actually spoken out in favour of. Surprise. Surprise, wonder why cause they're in China right my enemies enemy is. My friends is almost like a member the last time this happened: Afghanistan, nineteen, eighty anyways. When the communist come along. Suddenly, where we care about muslim minority,

They don't give a shit. We know from John Boltons, but the Donald Trump encouraged present. She jumping to build caps to put Muslims and Donald from the programme states encourage genocide abroad. Let that sinking and another story. That was a twenty four hour news to remove moved on. No one talks about animal, no one asked them about it. He encouraged genocide in China. And this is the problem. There is no strategy there. Our problem, in China that need to be dealt with this separation. This president, this party can't do it. I mean until the day he loved China more than any the president's level of China I mean this is the whole irony of the whole Biden is the candidate, the communist body, Donald Trump, just just just if you could look, is twitter feed and if you look at some of this, have you say he said I quote, is what he said about China, January onwards, they were working hard, working, very hard, working, really hard, leading a successful operation and doing a very good job on the throne of ours. Appreciated that effort and transparency here. So I want to thank President. She called him a friend multiple times

and this is my favorite Tommy did you. I've heard this until I looked into in Davos. In January. He said he China, I'm for the? U S, but other than that we love each other We talked about the Kim letters love letter than we laugh about guaranteeing king help our region. I think she jumping and prompt gonna parts. I think she can bring to pass in and of itself. I think, is one of the world's worst dictators, if not the worldwide dictator right now, not just because of Xinjiang, but Hong Kong, and what he's doing in China, even by chinese dictatorial standards, this guy's, extreme and yet Tromp says I'm in love with him again. Sorry to do this. Take imagine if Obama did it matter the bombers and I'm in love with a dictator who the rest of the Republican Party must not and it goes from this love affair which she didn't bring to suddenly one virus. It came from China their number one enemy regime change. That's just bizarre!

Now how you handle a country like China, which does need to be tackled on issues like the weakest, but not by this erratic, crazy, reckless, completely ill thought out. Nonsense from the White House, yeah quite possibly be single biggest problem that Joe Biden will inherit from Donald Trump in terms of policy, but maybe trump yeah he's got here is to emulate. You should pay rank as if you, if you don't get the campaigns message, its law and order right, and so, if you look at Portland, the goal clearly is stuck the flames. Culture war demonize all Democrats, demonize protesters call them the radical right. There are reports trickling out about how personally involved trumpet This is calling the data. Secretary in the morning for updates on what's happening in Portland that these agents, in Portland, are no longer to defending federal buildings are moving up locks and the neighborhoods. The daily beasts reported. The trump wanted. An ostentatious show of force into sea protesters quote shaking in their boots one.

Mitchell gave up the game by telling the washing posts that quote, it was about getting viral content online. Maybe always is you been arguing for a while that it is time to start saying the F word fascism. What people need to know. We'll be wanting to know? If you don't want me, some authoritarian, that is indisputable dating anyone debates that the issue is. Oh has gone far enough to be a fascist has met one of a threshold. People have in their imagination of what a fascist ears and often it is for these two out of it, Benito Mussolini, Jason Staminate, whose professor philosophy at Yale Brilliant, become fascism, good friend of mine. He made the point on Twitter a couple of days ago. You said you to fascism, apparently, is only comes from Germany and ITALY. That's that's what fascism is your socks, this idea that we ve just we think that can only happen in that way. No fascism thrives on board. Each country responds to fascism. Differently, produces different, the fascism there is an american form of fashion and which has been around for a while, since even before Hitler Hitler paid tribute to Jim Crow laws in mind camp when he was writing my income

and you know, NEO Nazis were gathering in the nineteen thirty Henry Wallis Vice President and Fdi. His second vice present wrote a famous article. Four, the New York Times and nineteen forty four at the height of the global war against fascism- and I quote hake- is a nude- asked me about fascism. And he said he said at the time does what he said is the american fascists. Among easily recognized by the deliberate perversion of truth? In fact, they use every opportunity to impunity. Creasy. They claim to be super patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the constitution, sound familiar to anyone right now, there's a new year, I mean look from you mentioned China. We just don't want China in ninety ninety, a year after Tiananmen Square trumpeted interviewed Playboy magazine in which he praised the China these for a show of strength again

the privilege elements square. That's who is always being an admirer of autocracy and admire a state sponsored violence, that's what he enjoys. Yes, he doesn't have some thought out. Ideology of Hitler's Mussolini does but he's definitely likes the tactics of fascism, the state, sponsored violence, the criminalization of the free press, you the paramilitaries on the streets, the talk of them and us the xenophobia a national. It's all that all the ingredients and look yes, we were not Germany, nineteen, forty three, but all we, Germany, nineteen, thirty, three are either many of the Reichstag fire, the Germany, where Hitler was seen as a idiot who could be controlled by the conservative elites to get what they wanted done in terms of tax cuts? Are we in that period of time I don't know the arms. I suspect we are but I'd like to have a discussion about this and talk to the expert and look at the evidence in front of us. Look at what. How can you look what's happening in Portland Oregon, say this is just any other book standard, authoritarian american president.

It's not come on data. You mentioned the database and other court in the database that I saw job Ptolemy, former senior Trump Administration official told the beast Tromp would often talk about lining up drug dealers and gang members in front of a firing squad if it was solely up to him. That's how the country would solve crime in Democrat run cities we just we just got so, but this move I feel artificial, is saying that transit he wants to learn. People are gonna shoot them. These observers, respect for due process in breach of mixing, didn't come anywhere close to this it's. Ok, look along these lines. I mean lost in the income. Parents of that interview with Chris Wallace was, it was a claim Trump made that the supreme where its recent ruling against attempts to roll back the Dhaka programme, some algorithm new authorities on immigration in health care- and I remember thinking like that- is made the Big NEWS out of this interview at what is he talking about initial nobody knew, but apparently he was referencing an argument

advanced by the Bush administration lawyer named John, you case listeners at home, don't know who John you is, can you remind us and why they should make us a little nervous? Yes, I'm before John, you just touch on the Trump Wallace thing what he said, is it just a new version of what he's always, which is? I should have complete power. I should be she'd writing. He said current presses? He says article two of the constitution gives me total power and authority. He is mad, is what he believes and, of course, millions of always believed a strong executor right, Dick Cheney and and the unitary executive theory that the president can base you do You think, but they only believe that, for Republicans, they didn't think your boss broke a bummer had executive power, the he was a tyrant and a dictator. But republican presidents should always have no controls. No checks and balances in Trump is part of that school of thought. He himself is just wants to be a dictator righty. He reaches out for what

argument eating their article two and then obviously someone solely national review article by John You, which basically said that the duck a court ruling which the Supreme Court didn't say back as good or bad loyal I'm studying what they said was the process of Trump used to try and get rid of doktor. He can't do and John Use argument was well if he can't do that. That means a next present come undo. What trumps doing trunk can do? but he liked using executive, Pat right, tortured, argument that a lot of more qualified nor professors that is completely bunkers, as have the ACL you but this is John. You John you with part of the Bush administration, would says the press can do whatever they like, as long as they have a Republican next to the name and the thing John you pushed under which W Bush was torture. That was his issue. Was in the office of legal counsel? I think he was deputy assistant attorney general, time- and he wrote the famous torture members in two thousand to which gave birth and the CIA and others the authority to torture. People literally talk to people. In fact, you

He came up with the argument that did not torture Less its organ failure unless its permanent damage to the body or unless you die when it's happened. Otherwise, It's fine you're slapped someone around no organ failure when a waterborne summit did not dead, fine, gopher That was his legal argument, which never stood up in any court of LAW violated the Geneva conventions You know, I would say two things number one: the one of the biggest mistake: your boss made Barack Obama in office. Was not prosecuting people at John you this whole we're not gonna. Look. What we need to look forwards on torture, the rest, John Use able to write National Eu Review pieces today and go on CNN and Fox, is because he was never really held to account for the crap you did for George W. He should have been the rest of them- should have been and when we talk about council culture today, cancelling people John, you is alive professor at Fucking Berkeley

the home or lefty liberals in America. How about how this John you a low professor at Berkeley? If we're supposed? because I don't want to hide from Berkeley. You want you want to come to me. I don't want to companies career. I will seem in prison. You- and I should have a long debate Sunday about exactly this question, because I think it's a worthwhile debate. But I, in saying to me that this man is so, I do published pieces work at a law school and taken seriously in Washington. Liberal or right out of town liberal, so with who ass? I really want to talk to you. It is about the media because you are in, Bert Margaret Solvent and wash opposed this piece about. You know why the media coverage a twin. Sixteen I was disastrous and how we can get it right and twenty twenty and we do a lot of media. Criticism here. I had pod save America, but you are you're a professional you're, a train journalists and in the best,

I think about your perspective. As you came up in the UK, where that the press is less deferential, it's more brutal, its unsparing and you are unsparing in your criticism of the political media. So let me briefly summarize. Yes, all events, criticism of the sixteen coverage further now, as she says, it rely too much pulling it overplayed. The press overplayed email story. They are out of touch with anger and the electorate, and racism is sexism, there was often driving it the media from play. Simon editor. They didn't understand. Facebooks influence and generally like didn't, dare to modernity. What do you think that list then you'd add our hundred beside and she now I'm a big fan of Margaret Sullivan she's, one of the few journalists who gets it and she busy covered everything the whole from being a shiny new toy for the media. The phrase used, which was spot on description of the way he was treated with a somewhat different and entertaining, and he was a fiscal stimulus for the media and twenty sixteen Sienna made wreck. Yet

Fischer MSNBC fault, wherever you are of the political spectrum, humane record profits as a cable news, provided the new at a record boosted subscriptions once he was elected, and that was a silver lining to the times of the Trump election. The new Yorker another's all did really well out of the trump phenomenon and they treated him in that way. The camera shiny new toys- I think she's There are so many failures. My biggest worry what she touches on this basis. I think she could have been even more unsparing about they have learned the lessons. So you know are things we talked about the last year. Journalists is have we learn the lessons of twenty sixteen and we have a right. We have not learned the lessons of twenty sixteen and therefore you still see the both sides coverage, you'll, see the resistance to calling a lie. You still see the the regular euphemisms for racism in the new times an ocean of racially coded, racially whatever it is in,

flame rattled does not contain any racist, safe working, racists right. So I think those are the huge problems, the inability to really think again. It comes back to my criticism of policy. It goes back to who these people are politician, democratic politicians all the way they ought to their dna political, Germans, Deasey Prescott, it's the way they are on the way they have always been. They don't know any other way they ve always covered in a certain way, and when someone from comes along and disrupts the interpret? They can't compute, they can't coat and they try and use the same method which don't work. It does I could all to do a both sides. We know today that free free speech is under assault, democracies under assault civil liberties or undersold. All of the progress that the? U S, made on racism is under threat and the only way you can cover that families to point out that, as the Republican Party in Trump that is leading salt and neutral Jones can do them. They can't call they can't pull it out. That would be one side we hold on. What's the demo,

where's their role in that they have to be blamed too. Of course, Democrats are problems, but right now the white Nationalist is the guy an office, and I think just and then this can't be bias. We can't take aside. Yes, you can so you can be pro fact. You can be proud truth you can't be pro civil liberties, and you can anti racism and Anti Semitism, there's nothing stopping gentleness from doing that other than if they do go down that road to have to start saying some unpleasant to themselves home truths to their views in red of about one republican party. Yes, one one thing: I think that she missed just from a whining Democrats perspective that Pre Trump which is one of the big differences between your running as a Democrat and running as a Republican is the way conservative media can drive. The narrative in Gaza is the best example. It was a tragedy. There's lots to criticise in in the government security measures for those individuals, but what the coverage was disproportionate was partisan, was driven by constant Fox news coverage and

there's no analogous capacity on the left him who know that, because we recently learned that Russia was paying Taliban linked militants to kill you s, troops Trump did nothing to stop them. It's no longer a story. I mean it's no longer a story is the epitaph of the trunk presidency and medium term. If I go to the things that wish to in the other was just tweeting last night about something about from a United tweeted, just each tweeted yesterday about mothers. The scale of the mothers in Portland. Mothers in rainbow marks and I've. Why are they not This is something that I dont know. I do this to muzzle that's another, even even bizarre trump than what I ve been report reminded me about you: know his history of attacking protesters and Roma Martin good. I think, as they was a seventy five year, although in Buffalo who was down to the pavement, prop attacked and remember Trump call them. Andrei adversity was a troublemaker totally false. Seventy five year old white pensioner, right normally, Republicans beat fast to the defence of this guy he's in but also we don't want to

I will I do is criticised from had forgotten about we It is no longer a stories, you say, because we had them even those of us who are critics of drum, don't have the infrastructure. All quote uncle ECHO Chamber. Really do harm to the Republicans by constantly sake. What about this? What about this? What about don't forget this? The way that the, publicans could, over Benghazi or of Ebola. We don't We just move, I'm partly its trump just overwhelms. You know to quantity, and he floods the zone would shit, which means we cannot cover everything now we do just we dont circle back two things, one a classic example. I often ask is Trump there's a lot of interview, Why does no one say to him? You know what you told us. I don't want to go back to where they came from this talk about that. I would love to see and programmes that one issue, because, if indifferent, no Republican can defend. No, no one has followed a few issues. You'll know that republicanism command defended amount. They think they don't quit Furthermore, they don't even if indefensible by any any stretch of the imagination, there's no cover

no one, also about it's a year ago, this was a year ago is twenty years ago. From talking So that's a real problem when it comes to coverage- and you know one day- I will never forgive the DC preschool and where the moment right really really knew that the complete irredeemable, sadly most of them. If not all, is you know How could be Saunders was two years? Why has pressed secretary carrying water for a president who basically incited violence and hate against the media, everyday call them fake news, call them scum, cold and enemies of the people she herself TAT, the press from the podium. She then abandon the briefing She lied to them so much that Robert Mullah included, one of her lies in its report to the press. And yet, when I quit, They held a going away party, though ass personal, just again? You have gone ready, anyone, let it go. Shame on them for organizing the damn thing, and you don't want

when, when ordinary people say in those people on Twitter, say to me the problem that is its access journal You know- and I tried to find my colleagues, but yet that is access its access. Fear of power. You could away that even in the briefings. Tommy have you seen some of these journalists, british journalist. British meat have what's wrong with it, but at least some journalism England can ask tough questions. You The pre renders a couple of them. Who can ask tough questions, mostly women by the way and allow the rest of them are just intimidated by tromp, whereby Cayley makin anywhere is the very deferential? Did they get spooked easily when their attacked? They don't really push by pardner, maybe Jimmy cost or occasionally, but there's this is just. Does the acts the deference the fear that both sides I mean the both sides- is the killer. Tommy, that's what the killers in the run up to elections when even the times is both sides in Trump and twenty twenty. You know we're screwed and it's an old phrase. Maybe some of your listeners of her

there's an on line about journalist, what is the job of a journalist if someone says to you, it's raining outside and someone else's to you. It's not raining outside your job is not to say Personae says it's raining person be says: it's not raining. Your job is to open the fucking window and find out if it's raining outside threats. We will finish on a positive note here, which is solving fixes, ok, that she says: focus on voting rights, intellectual integrity, good idea, present polling with more contacts, good, don't like play Simon at her. Don't fall for manufacture crisis like the email scandal, understand the influence of social media. To your point, I would like including that list be more adversarial. It tries, crazy. When people like my pale come on Sunday shows they get differential treatment. I dont care. If they come back the whole shouldn't care, they come back. Everyone should what Your shows and to see the way guess are pressed again, and and again, when the not answering I feel like, if everyone did it, we're also that

people going to go, they can only go on Fox yeah and even on Fox Chris Wallis is relatively by cable new standards, a good tough into what was interesting. We interviewed trumped everyone praised. Wasn't I tweeted about the timing was o Chris. What this does is greatly. Ok, why didn't other people do rather than just go? Yes, increase, one is great, Well, why did the rest of the tv intimately tromp was pretty much sat down most top American TV? It doesn't do often, but if you go through the list is done stuff anomalous he's done chunk, taught you ve done Most of them, you haven't done Jake Tapir, I believe, but he's done he's done. Most top tv host he's done most foundation knows he's done six

minute. Why haven't they ve been able to kind of put him on the spot in that way? Why haven't they been able to follow? Ups, I think, needs to be real law. Long hard, look at themselves a lot of these journalists who have intimated Trump, either on tape or on print and ask themselves really. You know. History will judge you when this guy, when this cereal fabricated, when this derange narcissist, when this white Nationalist was sitting in the oval office, and you gotta chance with him to sit down with it. What did you What did you do with that time? Yeah! That's a great question! Many thank you. So much doing Ado show today. Everyone should follow your work at the intercept nations. Its subscribed deconstructed, your podcast. In check out everything you're doing without your english head to head up front, it's fantastic work I love talking you man, I love that you are you happy, because I am sure the phase you're welcome back on deconstructed anytime, I beg you, beg you and have agreed that presented. Thank you so much Tommy, it's fun! Ok, when we come back you're in here John, was interview with Mother Jones is already Berman about voting during the pandemic. Now that we are less than what honey

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I just will say, though, I'm glad we're not in the opposite. Otherwise Emily would bring that little baby to the office. Hold it up and say everything the light touches is yours is a super on account of all superbum you're, the best bar Indo GINO suits started. To ninety nine, all customization included Indochina assurance across North America, or you can buy a virtual appointment and bottom line at Indo, China, dot com and right now you get an extra thirty percent off. Any person three hundred ninety nine dollars or more at indochina dot com, while ring crooked at check out. That's Indochina. Dot com get an extra thirty dollars off. When entering the code cricket a check out, we Levin did Chino, it's really well. Will it really good and those waiting for us, and next thing you know another person Our government is a senior reporter and mother Jones covering voting rights. Is the author of give us the ballot, the modern struggle for voting rights in America? Our thanks for joining us, hey John, can to see

from afar. Again I now so people are hearing a lot of crazy lies from Donald Trump about voting by male you're, a journalist who spend more time on this topic than just about any one. How safe is voting by male you're? Absolutely right, John. The president has engaged in a massive propaganda effort around thought by male calling it rigged and dangerous and fraudulent, but in fact, a vote by mail is very safe. There is very little fraud when it comes to vote by mail. The conservative heritage foundation, which is a close ally of Donald Trump, found only a hundred and forty three criminal convictions for male ballot fraud. Over the past twenty years, so that each does point o o o o o six percent of fraud. At of total votes cast

can see it's not a very big problem. Also, I think we ve had you know. People like the military has been voting by male fur. I don't know how long decades We have multiple states that vote by male like this is a practice that has gone on for so long in this country that the idea that some new thing that we should worry about is just absurd right. Yeah, that's absolutely right. Voting by mail is going to be used in larger numbers than ever before. But it's not a new invention is how likely infected vote by mail in the year. Twenty twenty states, like Oregon, have been doing it for a few decades. Now, I'm it works really well, there are both Republicans and Democrats alike it. The military has been voting by male for decades overseas voters have been voting by mail for decades.

So we have a lot of data on this. We have data that shows that vote by mail does it lead to large scale, photo fraud. We have data that people like using vote by mail and we have data that by male increases. Voter turnout, so we're gonna see an expansion of vote by mail, but there's not can be anything really different in terms of how it works this year. That house worked in years past and that I believe, there's there's some people who voted by mail in the past who live and work. In the White Ass, never imagined that There are. According to the Washington Post, there are sixteen top Trump Administration official including Trump himself that have voted by mail. So you have trump voting by mail. You have pence voting by mail. You have attorney general bar voting by me of Kelly and Conway voting. But now I'm not going to read the whole list, but

and on and on you go. Basically, every taught member of the trunk administration has of it by mail and Trump is trying to create this, a crazy distinction between vote by male male ballots in absentee voting, but then there are the same thing. It's people voting by male everything, Him say that it's what I want to scream, because it's just like no there's not enough people pointing out that there is absolutely no difference but speak voting by mail and absently voting. It's the same thing and diatribe is trying to disprove druthers distinction between the two. It's crazy. It's the same thing he's basely saying! Well, if you vote absentee, you have to go through a process, while in every state you have to go through a process. If you're ballot, is automatically mailed to you. You still have to go through a process of sending it back. If you requested Cynthia ballot. Are you still have to go through a process to get it and I really doesn't make any sense which hamper saying. I think what he's trying to do is he's too

to say that states should not make it easy to vote by mail? That state should not, for example, male balanced. Every registered voter like Oregon does like Washington. Does that tough He's gonna do this year, in my view, that that's actually what we should be. Chile, if you look at the data the best way, do vote by mail is to have it be universal and to say about to every registered voter, and I think trompe so afraid of that, because that way of voting by mail is gonna leave the largest increase. Voter turnout cause it's going to get ballots in the easiest way to the largest number of voters. So twenty point will be the first time that a lot of people vote by male. How easy is it? to do that right. Now, it's very easy to vote by mail in most states in seven states. In the country Palliser how to every registered voter actually get a ballot where you live. If you're registered, you want to do anything to get it and that's really the gold standard. That's what Oregon and Washington and California face like that are going to do in thirty four states you can

wasted absentee ballot. For any reason, that means that anybody in those states can vote by mail, and that includes basically every swing stay in the country. So in all of this aids that are going to decide the next presidential election people will easily be able to vote by mail. There is about ten other states in which you have to have excuse to vote by male. Most of those its allowed you to vote by male Dhunacrag a virus in the primaries, and the hope is that their allow you to do that, in the general now, there are some notable exceptions where it's very, very difficult to vote by mouth. One Those places is Texas, where, for example, if you're We're sixty five. You can vote by mail for any reason, but if you're under sixty five You can actually site fear of contracting covered as a reason to vote by me which I just think is so absolutely totally insane the republican attorney general there has said that fear of contracting

of it is an emotional condition, not a physical condition, Even though there are ten thousand cases a day in Texas right now, so in a few states like Texas Republicans have create a situation where it's easy for their voters to be able to vote by male particular voters over sixty five and its harder for Democrats, those under sixty five to be able to vote by mail, but the Good NEWS is that in most of the country, anyone can vote by mail, and it's very easy to do so. What we know about voter turnout in states where there is a lot of voting by now. We know that voter turnout increases when you make it easy to vote by mail. So just look at what happened in the past. Marries for the five states, with the highest increases in voter turnout, bail, ballast all registered voters, so that policy works and thirteen of the fifteen states with the highest voter turnout. Primaries. Sixty percent or more of the electorate voted by mail,

but we're seeing is that in states with high turn out a lot of people decide to vote by mail, just ass, the safest way to vote in a pandemic, and I think that with the trooper ministration is so afraid of they're afraid of the fact that there will be unprecedented voter turnout in November and that voters will decide to cast balanced by mail. But it's the safest way to do so and they think that's gonna hurt their voters, even though, in my view, Republicans are just as likely, if not more likely, to want to vote by mail as Democrats will be well that I was gonna, be my next question. Is I've seen a lot of stories recently that republican operatives and various states are now trying to tell the White House stop having the President attack boat by male because they want vote by male because they believe that if more of their voters get ballots to mail in, they will have better turn out in republican sections of certain places in America. Absolutely if, if you look at

HU, the GEO Peace Corps. Voters are, they are older, more rural voters that are going to need vote by male more than just about any body, and so what President Trump is doing by trying to dissuade people to vote by mail. Is he's essentially disenfranchises his own voters and that's why Republicans in Wisconsin and flawed and all of these states are saying no. We actually want people to vote by mail and they really. An absurd level in Florida. John, you may have seen this mailer. That was done by the forty Republican Party, where they took a tweet from President Trump says. Absentee voting is good and they highlighted that They blurred out the part where he said: male voting is bad maybe they're doing quite the gypsy here. Try to finance this issue, and what we are seeing is that in states like Florida Democrats have now a huge advantage in terms of requesting male ballots

big reversal, because in Arizona, Florida and other swing states Republicans we're ahead when it came to vote by male. They ve completely lost that advantage because of what the present has been saying for their needs rob acts of vote by mail. But you ve seen Yassum vote by isn't perfect. There are few things to keep an eye on. One thing is the fact that if you don't turn your ballot in on time, it can be rejected. So in the primaries so far, sixty five thousand absentee ballots been rejected because they arrive too late. Now, that's not that big of a number of only one percent of total ballots cast. However, if the election is close, you have to keep an eye on. Are these ballots being returned in times? I would urge everyone who wants to vote by male make sure you request your mail ballot early and misery, send it back early because the closer the election you get in terms of requesting it. That's gonna, put more stress an election officials. That's gonna, put more stress on the postal service

another potential drawback of vote by mail is balance, can be rejected if you dont sign them, for example, if you dont sign them neatly, they might be thrown out because of things like smash signatures. So you have to be careful when you vote by male. Some states have very strict laws about that self. Voting by mail, I think, is really good preclude a pandemic, but you have to be careful in terms of how you do if the request about early, you have to fill it out carefully. And to me all of the rules governing they voting on a reason why we should make melting easier, not huh,

because there are already a lot of rule surrounding male voting and if they become more restrictive, not less restrictive, fewer people going to use it as a result of such a lot of books on the democratic side. Who say that as much as we want to make vote by male, much easier and and universally accessible really that they also want to preserve some in person voting options that are safe for the fall, because there are a number of democratic constituencies or people who tend to vote democratic means, especially true. Apparently the letter of black voters, who don't have a lot of trust and vote by male, partly because of voter suppression efforts over the years, and they worry that their balance and I won't be curtains- are they actually wanna? Go vote in person. Do you think it's important sort of preserve these in person voting opportunities for people fall? Even as you know, you know we may be dealing with with Covet guy think in person. Voting is

I'll really important. I don't think it's either or I don't think you vote by mail. Are you vote in person? You have to have both options and we've clearly seen that in the primaries cuz one of the most disturbing things that happened in the primaries is. There has been very long lines to vote five hour lines in Wisconsin six hour lines in Georgia. Seven hour line in Nevada The reasons why the life for so long is because so many polling places were closed, and so these states were encouraging people to vote by mail, but they weren't preserving enough pulling. Says and what happened was you either had constituencies that wanted to vote in person or you had constituencies that didn't get their male ballots for one reason or another? And if you don't get a male ballot, you're only recourse is to go vote in person, and so I think we expected in November we're gonna see unprecedented male voting by a lot of people are still I want to vote in person and it's going to be critically important to have enough polling places, and I think one thing is also really important. Is that to make sure there's enough poll workers because

Workers tend to be older. I saw statistic that fifty eight percent of poor workers are sixty or over so the highest risk category. So if you're you, if you're young, if you feel like you're it in the safe enough position, I would encourage you would have become pork Because if you don't want your pulling place, two cloves someone has to be able to stop the poles, who is not at risk and willing to do this kind of work, yeah we're trying to do that this week, as well as to try and make sure as many people as possible, who are young and unhealthy, can sign up to be poor workers so that a lot of people were elderly and risk. Don't have to do that. One of the important things. Obviously we need for vote by mail to be successful, is a working post office. Troubles and trying to screw that up to what worries you about, how he's treated the? U S, postal service and sort of the state of the? U S postal service right now, as we had into this election, I am very concerned about what the trap administration is doing to the post office. They named the former top five

razor further republican convention as postmaster General, which is totally unprecedented to put such a partisan person in that mission. He recently announced the major changes to the post office, one of the things that are immigration, is trying to do, is eliminate overtime for posted workers and also to say that they don't have to deliver packages the same day. So what's that happened I mean that's gonna mean that postal workers are I could go to work as many hours and males Dhaka be able to be delivered as efficiently in the middle of a pandemic which are going to see unprecedented vote by mail. So if I dont think its coincidence that suddenly the trouble ministration is attacking and politicizing the post office at the very moment when vote by mail is more important than ever. I think that they are using the post office the vehicle for voters, suppression and that's why it so important Congress funds, the Post office,

Congress has already given the post office ten billion dollars, but the post office hasn't been able to access that money because diminution is putting all of these considerations. On them using the funds. So that's insane, they are not even able to use the money that they ve already gotten and also they are running out of muddy and one of the things Democrats did in the heroes accurately passed in may they include they included. Twenty five billion dollars for the postal. And so the post offices they need that money or they're going to run out of it and to me again this should not be a partisan issue, just in the same way that Republicans vote by male Republicans get mail. You think there's not an inherent bias when it comes to Now and again, a lot of Republicans live in rural areas where they are We rely on the post office, so this is one issue where it seems that there should be some sort of by partisan agreement we need the post office in general and we speak,

We need it and election which felt by mail is gonna, be use an unprecedented numbers, so. You know, as you said earlier in in the swing states that will decide the election it it. It does seem like voting by mail, is accessible and all those in other states, without an excuse now that we ve been through most of the primaries and we're looking towards the fallen, and you ve been covering a lot of the voting problems that we ve had in these in these primaries. What sort of worries use most as we as we looked at fall about ensuring voting access and in November. What worries me as we ve, never done this before we ve never had. A presidential election in a pandemic to begin with, and though we ve never had people vote by mail in such large numbers, So during the primaries, for example, in Wisconsin they went from six percent of people voting by mail to sixty percent of people vote.

By their what you just an unbelievable increase from one election to the other end election, fishes were overwhelmed. The post office was overwhelmed. Voters were confused by the process, and now voter turnout gonna be two to three times higher in all of these key swing states. Then it was. During the primaries. So I'm worried that even if picnic, it is well intentioned about this process. The system could get overwhelmed by the volume of male voting. That's one thing that concerns me. The other thing is that clear, their appeal that don't want this process to go well, that the Republican Party has been engaged in a very long effort, you could say a fifty year long effort to try to as voters, certainly its accelerate. Since the twenty Twond election on all of these new restrictions on voting went into effect in places like Ohio and North Carolina Pennsylvania and was content and they're going to double down on those efforts during a pandemic and they're trying to the Republican Party is currently trying to weapon eyes, corona virus to make voting more difficult there trying to make it more difficult to vote.

Male there also trying to make it more difficult to vote in person at the Good NEWS. Is that in the primaries, a lot of these efforts seem to have backfired, that there has been record voter turnout so far, and so I am hopeful that people are going to be so motivated to vote, that they're gonna be oh, be able to overcome whenever bearers or put in front of them, but also that it in the way that we saw high turnout in Georgia and high turnout in Wisconsin voter suppression efforts, could actually motivate people to vote and say to people if my didn't matter. Why are they tried so hard to suppress it

one thing that keeps me up at night that I actually think we can all have an effect on by educating people about it. Now is you know in twenty eighteen, for example, Arizona is a state that has a lot of hope by mail on election night. It seemed like Pearson: Cinema was behind Martha Sally Lotta networks. Didn't think that she was gonna wind right. We do know that you're gonna win couple days later, shins appointing by two or three points, because it took time to count these ballots. I have fear that with so much voting by male. Some of these states on election night will look like will look closer than they will end up in an Donald Trump. Maven declare victory in some of these states, and I worry that sort of the the reporters covering these races won't really pricing. The fact that in a couple of days, the outstanding ballots maybe may favour

Joe Biden or the democratic candidate, and this could start causing the trouble where Trump declares victory when when he didn't we, now is that is as something you're worried about. Is that just sort of a fear that I have? I am Incredibly worried about that scenario- and it's completely plausible to me, because one of the effect of Trump urging republics devoting person is that in person, balance are counted sooner than me, balance and in most states, because a lot of states Valse on after arrive till election day or after and so That means that it takes longer to counterbalance so. You could have a situation where more Republicans our voting in person and their balance are counted sooner and more demo. That's our voting by mail and their ballots are being caught it later, and so it makes it seem like there's a lot more republican votes than democratic votes when, in fact it just takes longer to count the democratic votes. So I think, that's absolutely possible. In a lot of key states that the Republicans can be up early, but the Democrats

gonna be up when all votes are carried, an ash is gonna, be because votes are being counted but republic, as they do everything they can't as they did in Arizona just like they did in California. Twenty eighteen saying this systems, fraudulent saying it's rigged and I think that's why it's on all of us. His journalists, in addition to election affair I was saying we're not gonna declare any kind of winners until all the votes. Early enough for the votes are counted Wisconsin's election in April was a complete disaster, but one of the things they did well was it held all the results for a week until all the ballots were count and so therefore there was no speculation on election everyone knew that the results were coming out a week later there was nothing on What about it and on a week later, the battle? were counted and we knew who the winners were, and so I do, we need have some sort of agreement on this now and I think all of the major institutions in America that half credibility, whether its local action officials, the me

Other government agencies outside of the trumpet ministration houses are educating people about this, because you are completely right that trumps can do whatever he can to try to deal in mind the result, especially if it looks like you lose yeah. I think it's incredibly important that everyone and in a position of influence, who is a reporter, was a journalist and MRS. This has now three partisan riot like we have to socialize the idea now with the american public that it may not be election night in May election weak and they were all just gonna have to go to bed and election night without the results without knowing who won the election and that just met were in the middle of pandemic that just maybe what we have to do this year. There is another scenario that also worries me, a lot, which is the Supreme Court yet. We ve already seen a number of decisions from the Supreme Court that have put in effect bad voting. Loss for the primaries so they put in place restrictions in Florida Alabama in Wisconsin and taxes.

Much consistently. The Supreme Court has intervened in twenty twenty two say that Republicans basically put in effect any restrictions on voting. They want I'm even in a pandemic, so what worries me is there's all of this litigation about the rules of male voting in balancing to be postmarked by do the signature, have to absolutely match those kind of things, and if the election is really close in certain stew, it's. You can actually imagine that this stuff is gonna, be litigated to the Supreme Court and I am very concerned if we have a forty two thousand situation where its five hundred thirty seven votes or a few thousand votes in number of key swing states is gonna, go to the court and the court in that case will say that the Republicans are gonna prevail and Donald Trump, it's gonna be elected. I really hope that doesn't happen, but unfortunate is already a precedent for that in this country and when it comes to voting rights

John Robert is not a swing vote and I think it's really really important that we want to understand that this is the guy who author the majority decision cutting the voting rights out. This is the guy that said federal courts. Up can't view gerrymandering. This is the guy that said that states can do aggressive voter purging so not a swing, but when it comes to voting rights and basically what I this number one you wash his clothes but number two that we know what the rules are ahead of time and there is agreement on that so that the Supreme Court doesn't again decide the winner of the election, like they did in two thousand yeah. Fortunately, the answer to all of these concerns a matter which were useless. It is mass, voter turn out our environment. Thank you so much for joining us, reporter mother Jones your book is give us the ballot. The modern struggle for voting rights in America go check it out thanks again for the time, thanks so much fun

to talk to you. Thank you. The army Berman. Thank you too many husband fur for just hosting today. Thank you to all you listeners who made it to the Arturo who have gone devoted America, dotcom slashed. Every last vote were pitch in in doing your thing. Dan in Alyssa will be here on Thursday John that, was threatening to be back in a week from today. That next Monday will see if that holds up, but thanks everybody talking pod. Save America is a crooked media production be exempt. Producer is Michael Martinez. Our system producers, Jordan, Waller. It's me an edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle segment is sound engineer, the tiniest Terminator Kalen, roman puppet Dimitrios, Caroline resting Annalisa Gutierrez for production support Antwerp,

little team, Eliza CO, normal Conan yell freed. In my look, who film and upload these episodes is videos every week.