« Pod Save America

“America’s crazy old uncle.”

2018-07-12

Democrats target Brett Kavanaugh’s views on presidential power, Trump blows up the NATO summit, and House Republicans defend Rep. Jim Jordan against accusations that he turned a blind eye towards sexual abuse allegations. Then Senator Dick Durbin joins Jon and Dan to talk about the Kavanaugh nomination and immigration.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The presenting sponsor pod. Save America is Ziprecruiter, it's Ziprecruiter guys, isn't it cool how as soon as you finish, one thing streaming. Music and tv services suggests new stuff to check out based on what you like. Sometimes it's cool, sometimes it's it's great. Unless you're trying to actually get anything done right, it's a bit can be intrusive. An also like this is what you think I, like you know, if you're ever hiring Ziprecruiter also uses technology, the proactively its recommendations for you, oh well, it's better than when streaming services do it. When you post a job on Ziprecruiter and review applications, there Imagine technology learns. What kind of candy do you like invites more like them to apply? Do you like accountants that specialize in corporate mergers not pretty but here's to love them like them. I love them. Do you like podcasters with White House experience? Is that in there yep? No, I made that up. I'm that self referential good
no problem. We got one he's sitting right here, so go ahead and try it for free today at ziprecruiter dot com cricket. So you can get back to binge watching those random korean horror flicks. What we're not obscure, eighties 80s bands or casting some sweet pod. We, we do not say sweet me. I also I I think we should all be more uncomfortable with the term binge watching it. Now you're, taking a hard stand against binge watching I just hit me that I was listening to it. You know I thought about it, like you would never say. Like I'm bingeing on like this art, you know I went Annette and I binged dole's watching set super critter dot com, slash cricket! When you go, you get fast personalized help finding your next great hire. It's like. I didn't I didn't I do actually follow. Picasso's career, I waited till. He died and I binge all of his art, but does sound weird.
And we so we get to look smart for sending you, which we clearly need help doing we're dot com such cricket Ziprecruiter, is the smartest way to hire. Welcome to POD save America, I'm John Fabric, I'm Dan Pfeiffer later in the part, will be talking to Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois about how Democrats should handle Brett Kavanaugh's nomination in the latest. On the to reunite the family separated under the Trump administration. Zero tolerance policy also going to talk
Trump's attack on our NATO allies in advance, if it's meeting with Putin, because this is something that we're dealing with here in twenty eighteen. House keeping the wilderness launches on Monday. Thank you all for your great feedback. The wilderness, podcast dot com. You can go to the website and check out the titles and descriptions of each episode along with the guest list. One of the guess is here with us today, Dan Pfeiffer. I'm excited to be good. At I mean I I'm excited. I have blocked out hours of my Monday for this fight. Yeah, there's a for a closer excited and I'm I'm very pleased to see for you and the Democratic Party who's in the wilderness. The reception to it has been very positive and good and people understand what you're trying to accomplish here to think is a very important task that we will all be better for yeah, I hope so
but you know, will have, will have four episodes out so they're, like you know, four thousand and fifty minutes so everyone have a lot of listening if they like, if you like, if you like, to get away from the news just for a second and sort of listen to a longer form documentary about a party, this podcast is for you, Dan. Has the bookstore going. I thought I saw you Alyssa in it were you in New York this we there were you're in DC. It was a lease thinking that it was a bomb in a style Jeff Van at the six and I synagogue in DC, and we had a blast. It was really fun. Alyssa should host a talk, show of some kind because she is a super posts. She I mean I knew when I asked was to be the moderator of my event that she would be the actual draw the crowd. The line of people who wanted to see Alisa talk to Alisa, get advice from Melissa, get Alisa
they sort of this book? There are two which is out in paperback who thought this was a good idea, and people came with signs and shirts about alissas cats. It was really It was really nice to it just sort of dragged behind her her fame and popularity, and we had we had a blast. Lot of our friends were very nice enough to come out and check us out, but you brought up the book which I thank you with. The book is called this. We know because it's very important to the title. Yes, we still can politics in the age of Obama, Trump Twitter. As you remember, from two weeks ago, I announced that we were going to make donations from a portion of the proceeds of all books sold over a two week periods in a row. The organization which is done so much good work, but is also leading the fight against Brett Kavanaugh, who seems bad and so that that, that two week period of donation of donation will and Saturday at midnight so
for some reason: you're a pod save America fan, you have t shirts. You know the names of John John and Tommy's dogs and you haven't bought the book yet now would be a good time to do it. If you want to also give little help to our friends and there also we're recording this on a Thursday. And it will- and we said we you have until midnight Saturday night to get this done So I encourage you to and do it excellent let's. Let's start with Trump's nomination of longtime republican operative turn, Judge Cavanaugh to the Supreme Court. Did we haven't talked about this? Yet what? What are your reactions to Cavanaugh so far, and what I'm interested in what you think his biggest weaknesses as a nominee as Democrats? Try to fight this thing? Well, I'm not a cabin, not so we could get that. Let's put that on the table is I thought that was really great work on your guys, part
You know. Sometimes it just comes to you. I think it is interesting that Trump basically had a final menu of three white right wing whitewing. That's a fruity and slip of epic proportions, three right wing white male ideologues and he pick, the one who had the longest paper trail that Mitch Mcconnell, I told Them- was the most difficult to confirm. Yet was the only one with a clear taking waited view on? Why a president's could not be criminally investigated for their kind So I think that kind of tells you everything you know about. Why trump pick that person, I think the are Matt Kavanaugh here will get into something yeah this, but I think the most important things that arguments Democrats should make about him is one we should be making a process argument that all of
the papers, the emails and everything that were demanded of previous Supreme Court nominees from President Obama. The same Sort of serious careful vetting should be done. The cabin slows it down for a few weeks or a few months, so be it. This is important to be on the court for decades, probably but so. On the issues point of view, I think it is women's reproductive freedom. It is voting rights. It is workers rights and I think, there's also four point that he almost every single time rules on the side of large corporations against consumers and yeah. We should make that case because that that is a metaphor for everything that is
Everything that people just like about politics, everything that people hate about this republican Congress. I think people hate this president, and so we should not let that go by that. This is a gigantic win for the same corporations, who have been doing incredibly well in the Trump economy and just got a giant tax cut. Yeah I mean to that point. He believes he has written and said he believes that the consumer Financial Protection Bureau, an independent agency whose sole purpose is to lookout for consumers, is unconstitutional, and he has that view with. Number of other independent regulatory agencies that are supposed to look out for consumers that are supposed to protect our air or water, that supposed to protect unions, peoples, rights, so, as I mean it's a larger theory, that in a democracy, people cannot elect representatives who are going to regulate free market capitalism so that people are protected and still have opportunity in this economy and that's a pretty
that's a pretty radical belief to have on the court and Republicans like to talk about an activist court. They don't like activist court. That's pretty activist saying that when will elect representatives who make laws to regulate corporations that they can't do that or that some of those laws are unconstitutional, that's pretty dangerous. The other day I didn't mean it is increased. It's incredibly activist, that's exactly what it is is not strict constructionist they're trying to dismantle the it. The entire regulatory structure that's been in place since the new deal, and that has real consequences for consumers and real benefits for corporations, and that seems not like the bargain. We should be striking in this day and age yeah, and you know it you, as the first mentioned, of course, his views on
presidential authority, particularly around investigations in two thousand and nine. He wrote the Congress should pass a law exempting the president, while in office from criminal prosecution and investigation, including from questioning by criminal prosecutors or defense counsel, so I mean. Obviously we know that whether president can be indicted, while in office is something that's sort of like you know, up for grabs. Different legal experts have different views on this, but the idea of a that the president shouldn't even be under shouldn't even be. Criminal investigation that you shouldn't even be questioned by criminal prosecutors or defense counsel. That's going to have a huge effect, potentially when or if Muller decides to subpoena Trump, for an interview and Trump rejects that subpoena. Potentially, if that ends up with the Supreme Court, then Brett Kavanaugh could be the deciding vote on whether Donald Trump needs to sit for
your view with Bob Muller, and if he had this view ever some people are saying: oh well, he didn't say that the courts should reject the saying that Congress should pass a law exempting that yeah maybe, but he still believes the president shouldn't have to do this. I still believe that this that the president should be a Angeli above the lot, while in office, which is a pretty extreme view. I don't know the exact rules around judicial refusal, but it sort of seems common sense that both Gorsuch and Cavanaugh were he beat. Were he to be confirmed, should recuse themselves from a decision on whether Trump should have to sit for an interview or not or whether he was subject to subpoena it does it. It feels like they are conflicted out if he gave them a lifetime appointment to the court, and so you would hope that would be the case. I suspect it probably will not be the case because we live in a world of factory. It is also worth noting to students of history that Brett Kavanaugh first came to fame in american politics by being a deputy to KEN Starr, who argued vehemently that a president who
should be subject to a subpoena. Now that President obviously was unique in the sense that he, unlike Donald Trump, is a Democrat. Therefore, a different set of rules applied to him right and then apparently, Kevin has said that he changed his mind when he went to go work in the executive branch for George W Bush and said: oh well. You know now that I've been here in the executive branch. I see that the president is so busy and has to handle so many national security issues and economic issues that he doesn't have for this shift. Well, good luck, arguing that about Donald Trump who's. Ninety percent of his time is involved. You know he fucking tweets and plays golf, so that's bad, so I would also note that I'm pretty sure break happen. I work in the executive branch before he worked for KEN Starr too, so right. Yeah. That's true! I think, there's a there's a little bit a posh hit emanating here, as he is shifters positions to be whatever was most politically palatable to him at the moment. That is a dangerous like
we live in a world of politics. We don't be naive to think that that also put that every spring court justices or any Supreme Court justices. Just like the solomonic figure, you know making rulings from stone tablets. They were political individuals and there's nothing that says, being a political individuals disqualifying from the court. Elena Kagan, who Brock Obama appointed, had worked in the Clinton ministration, but being a political individual suggest who has worked in politics and therefore will have to make political rulings means that you should be subject to a greater examination of your paper trail that goes beyond just your digital ruins. What were your
views and beliefs. In your time, in politics in Elena Kagan went through that in Brett Kavanaugh should as well. I am sceptical that Mitch Mcconnell will all of a sudden, find some finding consistent bone in his body and demand what he demanded. Cavanaugh he demanded of Kagan, but Democrats should make that argument yeah. I agree so a couple other things we learned over the past few days, but Kavanagh someone unearth a speech. He delivered praising former chief justice, William Rehnquist, for his dissent in ROE versus Wade, which seems like a pretty big deal and window into his views on abortion. Should he sit on the highest court in the land so that that's pretty troubling, even though you know the Republican like. Well we're not going to ask him about his personal views on ROE. I mean it does seem like it does seem like those are pretty clear, yeah, it's obvious what is going to happen! It is obvious. It is all happening right before us, but there is- and this is not
just true of Republicans. This has been the way Supreme Court. Confirmations have been happening ever since Robert Bork got torpedoed in the 80s and I think like we should accept that all of this is bullsh it people should have to answer these questions president should have let miss like the I don't have. A litmus test thing is when the dumbest things presidents day, because every president has a litmus test right and they want people to witnesses. Are you consistent with my view of the constitution, and I actually think crap should be as explicit in their litmus test as about citizens united in ACA in the voting rights and everything else. As Donald Trump was about his litmus test in two thousand and sixteen, he said very clear that he would appoint justices who would overturn ROE V Wade has appointed a justice we should assume
that that justice will return or overturn ROE V Wade regardless what they say in the hearing. Whatever sort of movies legal mumbo jumbo for all apple sauce comes out of the mouth of the hearing. This is what we are headed towards. The Democrats have to make this case, because when five white men overturn ROE V Wade one day, we need to know whose fault that yeah it was a campaign promise that he reiterated over and over again, I promise. If I'm didn't, have the opportunity to appoint Supreme Court justices. I will appoint justices to overturn ROE versus Wade and he said- and if I get to, then it's done rose going to be overturned. I mean it was right there unfucking video, It all happened, he's told us what's going to happen, so the the story, I want to ask you about yesterday, I believe, is the Washington Post reported that Cavanagh in curd 10s of thousands of dollars of credit card debt buying nationals tickets over the past decade,
What do you think of this story? I thought it was weird, but I don't know if I thought it was anything beyond that. I don't care, I don't care. How would I got a card that is like if he buys national tickets or mystic Stick it's or wizards tickets or tickets to the theatre. I don't care, I don't. I also don't care about the very cleverly placed op Ed pieces from the people whose children are Brett, Kavanaugh coached in see why basketball or when I saw the post this they basically the gist of it- was Brett Kavanaugh, great carpool, dad, don't care, I care about what rulings he's gonna, make they're gonna fact millions of Americans around the country, that's what I care about like all of this, like the Supreme Court Justice, the represents our candidates. They are not like. I don't care. If they look the part, I don't care how
cute. They are with their children, like it's cool that he gave his daughter a high five in the middle of the national televised address. It seems nice being nice to your child. Does not tell me a ton about how much you're going to be. Everyone else. Is children and we've seen that throughout our time in politics, and so I don't care if you have credit card debt, I don't care if he is the Read our back of see why basketball? I don't care about any of that. I care about whether to return reverses waivers and roll me half of corporations, whether he's going to got the ac eight. That's what I care about and the rest of this is a bunch of bullshit and I don't like we all participate in this conversation. We we focus on all the most trivial parts of a Supreme Court nominee, which is crazy because it is the most consequential decision. We make even more consequential in many ways the presidential election because it lasts longer Nothing is more fucking Washington, then bunch of really elite. Rich people in both parties say
well, the guy in the other party was really nice, because our kids played together at the same fucking elite, really rich prep school like it's just it's so crazy? It only happens in Washington DC the people. I put Op Eds in the newspaper about how Brett Kavanaugh personally nice or they think he's a great soccer dad or something like that is. It is one of the big reasons why people hate fucking politics and hate Washington DC, because that club Eash it goes on all the time, and this is that made me so mad. That is. This is particularly true legal profession. Oh, it is because they all go to heart. They all went to Harvard or Yale LAW School together. They all worked at the same expense, white collar firms are clerk for the same justices or work in the office of the solicitor. Together, they go to the same parties and this lease like we benefited from this,
the White House like we would put up these controversial but very qualified progress of judicial nominees and like in KEN Starr, likes them and is but and did all absurd. Who cares? It does not matter whether another yell it doesn't mean anything to the struggling working class family. He was very worried that their try with prefixing edition is no longer at health care that some other member of the Harvard LAW Review thought Brett Kavanaugh was a great dude on the squash court late. It is, it doesn't matter, what's KERA,
now what his impact on people's going to be writ large, not whether not this other bullshit, it's really it's stupid, but I was also saying for it every single time. It only goes in one direction. I would say this to our liberal friends who tend to do this, like I understand, going to school or working with someone from another political persuasion who you find, you know to be a good person, a good friend, a good colleague. I understand that and that's fine, but when it's a progressive who's up for a nomination, you don't hear a bunch of conservative, legal scholars or conservative legal mind saying oh well, that will indicate in is personally or a wonderful person, and I really enjoyed her and I'm going to write an op ed. That says a conservative case for why Elena Kagan should be nominated Supreme Court justice. You never see that we own see it on the other side, when it's a conservative and a bunch of our
friends are like well. I should say that I worked closely with this person and he or she is a good good. Man are good woman. That's the only time you see, I'm going to say this right now. If thirty years from now, President Tiffany Trump puts TIM Miller on the Supreme Court, I will oppose him With every bone in my body, I, like him personally he's a good dude he's a great can be but he also thinks the tax cut is good, but I don't want to, but I don't want something like that, making those rolling. So even if we're friends will be getting no statement for me tomorrow, I don't even think is an attorney. So this is probably a fairly. The only part of this is realistic is Tiffany Trump. Is president, but you get my point here. And here's the thing TIM would do the same thing to us and he should you know like we yeah reference, but we have fundamentally different views in a whole bunch of really important issues, and that's what we're talking about here, the impact that these beliefs will have,
in the people's lives, not our personal friendship. You know, anyway, good luck to him. Good luck to you better. You better start sucking up to Tiffany Trump. Now, okay, Let's talk with the state of play on the nomination, collins. Who is one of the two Republicans who Democrats hope might be willing to against Cavanaugh because of views on abortion and the affordable care act because of her views on abortion and affordable care act? She told reporters this week quote. It will be very difficult for anyone to argue that he's not qualified for the job. He clearly is qualified for the job, but there are other issues involving judicial temperament and his political, or rather his visual philosophy, interesting slip there. That will also play into my decision Collins, an LISA Murkowski, both voted to confirm Kavanaugh in two thousand and six and according to the Boston Globe, columns voted for. Additional nominees from republican presidents nearly ninety nine percent of the time during her time in the Senate Dan. What do you think
Susan Collins is thinking right now. Is she trying to get to yes here? Is she? Do you think she's still there still a possibility that she votes know. What do you think I mean there? Is a possibility, show vote no, it's possible. We don't know that she both vote yes, and so we should continue to put the pressure on her. You know those are listeners in Maine and it should continue to go to protest. All of that, we should put all the pressure in the world on our her. History suggests that she desperately wants to get to yes, and it is. Are we can't control that our responsibilities to make that path as hard as possible and maybe stop it, but we shouldn't expect that she is not an avatar political courage. She is not someone who seeks out sort of she doesn't in the times in which he is opposed Trump, she is done it quietly. If you will write, she is not like. There are people like Jeff Flake, who opposed Trump in order to get attention, and-
He sincerely believes it, but he doesn't know where to get some more Sunday show appearance as on the remote, with only two great Lindsey, Graham breaks with his dear leader is done entirely calculated get himself on meet the press more. And so that's not tell Susan Collins, operate she's not looking for political attention, so I don't think we're going to prove you into this, but her history is not particularly promising on this fact yeah, and I do think what you said originally like the only path to Susan Collins. Voting. No is tremendous pressure by her own constituents on this issue, which is also what happened with the affordable care act. Is people camped outside her office? Is people flooded her Senate office with phone calls uh. When their stories about what it would mean to them and their families to lose their health insurance, and you know- and she she responded to that pressure then,
She now we don't know again. The prediction business on Susan Collins is not something that I think we should spend too much time engaging and I think whatever he needs to do is tell her everyone who lives in Maine. If you know people who live in Maine reach out to them, and tell her why this nomination would be really bad and impact your life in a very negative way. I think that's probably the only path there um? So we do have another problem which is uh some of the Senate Democrats, who are up in twenty eighteen the New York Times ran a piece about how the Red State Democrats are approaching the nomination with caution I've. Not talking about it at all or saying that they want to meet with Kavanaugh. First, here's Joe mansions quote a quote No, I don't have a lien on how I will vote. I think he seems to be a very fine person of high moral standards, a family person, who's very involved, this community has all the right qualities, he's well educated, and with that you know we have to just look at
sure that the rule of law in the constitution is going to be followed, I'll, be hearing from West Virginians and opinion, and I think they also have a right. That's why I work for there, my boss. We want to hear from them too so Dan. What are mentioned in some of these other Democrats. Thinking like what what are their consultants telling them right now about. You know why they should be sort of cautious around this nomination. Not just oppose it out right, I I don't know, I don't know their individual consultants. So I can tell you exactly what they're saying, but my guess is they probably like Susan Collins when want to get to yes, and they really hope Susan Collins gets the yes first, so that the pressure gets off of them. I do think it is probably the it's not unwise to too, if you were like, if you mention, were eventually going to oppose Brett Kavanaugh, it is probably the better political movement. Frankly, the more responsible move for him to sit too.
Consult actually think a bike meet with the guy and that it is easier to see ok- I met with him- I talked to him. It was very clear to me that he would make decisions that would be bad for West Virginia then just say yeah. No, originally yeah yeah, I oppose heap what you don't tell me that you would even meet with Brett Capital before, but I think most of this is on the margins. I don't think the Supreme Court and that you, I think you get you guys made a very compelling point about this Monday is. I think this is not a particularly. This is not gonna, be vertically consequence on these races either way, and I think frankly, the better political move is to vote no and that's better for you and your race, and it's certainly better for the Democratic Party democracy in the long run, because we have to take a stand against the theft of a supreme. Court seat two years ago, but I think it's fine. If, if your mission was to meet with them five times and then say now, I'm cool with that way, yeah me, too. I think that I think that is a fine approach that is, that is
okay- and I don't even blame progressive senators for saying I am. I have great concerns about this, but I want to meet and I give you my answer: I think that that is always been the dance. Even people know what their answer is going to be. I think that's yeah, that's fine! I will say you know Geoff Garin who's. A long time. Democratic pollster said this in the New York Times the other day, voters, including many independent voters in some in some republican voters- care deeply about maintaining the Supreme Court as an independent check and balance on the power of the president are pulling in red state shows that voters would approve of their senator for voting against confirmation if he or she believed that the nominee would weaken the court's role as providing an indypendent check and balance. I do think that's a good point and some
that these red, say Democrats should think of as they frame potentially how they make. You know why they might vote against cabin is that the Supreme Court needs to act. I mean it's basically the argument that a lot of Democrats running for Congress are making an eighteen, which is the Republicans Control Washington right now, if you're not happy with the whole trump. If you're happy with the Republican Congress vote for Democrats to provide a check on that Congress and the press and pressure check on Da will trump and now that the Supreme Court has basically become a political institution. Voting against a nominee is another way to hold Donald Trump accountable to put a check on Donald Trump's power yeah, I think, that's a very strong part, particularly in some of these upper midwest and these midwestern Upper Midwest States like Montana and North Dakota. There is a strong, independent and populist streak and I think, there's a real.
Franken. I I worked on Senate races in South Dakota against in one sentence in South Dakota many years ago, back when George Bush was at eighty percent popularity by running by TIM Johnson, who was a senator that I'm running as an independent as a check against Bush and who would fight for the state and both you for mansion or high camp or, frankly, down there. Anyone these are states where their constituents benefit tremendously from the ACA. So there is an argument there. These are. These are states that suffer greatly from the tax cuts are an argument there on the populist front, their states that are often prone to we're populist, put put but Democrats with making populist economic arguments and people are concerned about Trump and so there, if you want it there, I think it's better for him. If there is a great case to be made to vote now- and I just this
We've talked about this before on so many nominations, but I don't know who the bread Cavenall voter is the cabin night if he was just like well, I was four mansion, but then he opposed Brett Kavanaugh, also dominance which Merrick is brought you by square space is brought you by Squarespace love it you ever thought about starting a blog honestly, sometimes at night I can't sleep. I gotta scratch this blague itch. Do you have products or services to sell my personal brand? Maybe you have it maybe have a business to promote or an upcoming event to announce. True. Well, you know what they say. What do they say A dream is just a great idea that doesn't have a website. Yet I can't believe that they say that time and time again, make it a reality with Squarespace Squarespace is encouraging folks to make it easily create a website by yourself, using beautiful templates created by world class designers with squares the power is in your hands to really make your website your own. You can cut
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But today, and get up to one year managed free, investing does involve risk positive Erica listeners can get up to one year manage free for more information, visit, betterment, dot com, slash cricket, that's betterment, dot, com, slash cricket! Alright, let's talk about Donald Trump's attempt to up our most important global alliance. That is, help prevent a third World war for seventy years now? It appears that, while we were all sleeping on Wednesday night, the president NATO, into an emergency session to our allies about increasing their spending on defense. According to two officials who were briefed on the meeting, Trump threatened to quote do his own thing. If countries didn't meet their defense spending targets of two percent of gross domestic product by January later, at a press conference, everything was fine quote. The people have stepped up today. Everyone in the room thanks me very unified, very strong, no problem. He also took for persuading NATO allies to increase defense spending, which they
we denied agreeing to and then he held himself as a very stable genius, an left for London, then what the fuck is going on there. I would note that, as the father of a seven week year, old daughter, I was not sleeping with when this happened? I was wide awake. I got to see. I have to follow on Twitter in real time and it was even scarier in real time than when you when they eat, like that versus had seven hours to digest it. So it's not great. I don't know what to say it's there's like so many different angles. You can take on this one. He is to Lucia two, I'm not trying to delve into Louise Mensch territory here, but if hypothetically Vladimir Putin was holding some sort of urinary cassette, this is exactly what he would ask. Donald Trump to do would be to blow up
I guess exactly that is the number one foreign policy priority of the Russians when it comes to America and Western Europe and like why are we doing It's like he doesn't understand NATO. What it does. He did certainly doesn't understand how people allocate defense spending for it. He threatened to blow it up. Then fabricated, a made up, imaginary deal that was back together and pretended like people. Think then, which We didn't happen like what thank you. If you were looking for reasons to be deeply concerned about the well being of the no it's it's America today would be one of those days yeah I mean, let's just start by going to the basics? Nato is a essentially a political alliance which states that an attack on one is an attack on all
and it was you know, created after World war, two to basically prevent sort of soviet aggression in Europe uh. So that's the beginning, the spending thing, there is basically an agreement among all nations that each nation would spend two percent of its own gross domestic product on its own defense spending. There is no like pot of money. It's not like dues, it's not a fucking country club. They don't like it's not like every country pays him do news, and then the United States is paying too many dues and there's like a pot of money and that Europe is not paying their fair share. That anti your that that's what's in Trump's mine,
This is not how the alliance works at all. It's basically a commitment from every country to say: okay, this is a debate. This is basically a defense alliance. Is an alliance about like defending each other, and so all of us should spend around two percent of our own gross domestic product on defense spending and the United States. Is there a few other countries are there? Some countries are not quite at two percent yet, but that number is sort of inconsequential, or at least it's not quite as consequential as the basis of the alliance, which is saying if one of these countries is attacked by Russia or anyone else that's outside the alliance. Every other country will respond. This happened, for example, after nine hundred and eleven when the United States was attacked and the NATO said we will all step in and defend the United States and
we will stand with the United States because we are part of the NATO alliance after this September 11th attack, and so that's what the NATO alliance is. Four o, this whole fucking crisis that Trump created an then pretended that he solved take credit, for it is based on his own fundamental ignorance of what NATO is and what it stands for. Right. Yes, and I would note that I've read one thousand tweets and five hundred articles an you: did it better explaining the issue at stake here than anyone else, because as much as Trump does not understand what NATO is or how the defense spending sharks work, neither did most of the people reading about it or tweeting about it, because well I I would I will just say like I only. I only knew this because I thought I was crazy. So I'm like what you were on the text him texting row about this. To make sure I had the right understanding and then I'm like you have to Google for all these explainers, which some outlets did very well like. There was one you know
interpreter column in the New York Times. They had a good piece on this, but you have to really dig for these columns, because the political reporters who were there didn't do a good job explaining it in their stories because it might not be because they don't know the truth. It's because Trump pulls people into this fuckin' media circus, where it's all about what he said versus what the European said, and so much of the article is spent on talking about the fight that it doesn't give people a fundamental understanding of what's actually at stake, it's a real problem yeah. This is this is how we got here this. This is all from one. It is I mean if that, and it's not just our forces. This is the entire political conversation is removed from the seriousness and it's senator on the trivial theatrics of it, and that that is problematic, and I'm glad I'm glad. We took the time here to explain this and I hope other people will do the same in your right. Many people have done it and there are you like you can find the answers have to go looking for it and it, but it's not it's not readily apparent, and most of
coverage conversation around this and that's not great? I mean I don't really know it's crazy. It is really crazy. I mean, there's no really other way to take it is. It is self defeating and stupid, it's crazy. The way from his acting and it's crazy, though I mean everything every it's not the whole thing is completely insane. It has real consequences here. It is real consequences that Trump is unwinding decades, long alliances that that matter and he's doing it out of ignorance in peak, and we probably should have selected a narcissistic Talbert re present. I states, but here we are right. No, it does have a does, have serious consequences because Russia, what one of the one of Putin's main
goals is to break up the native alliance. We know this. We know he wants to try to pick off some of these countries in Europe and to have all of the allies fighting with each other, which is why Russia interfered in the brexit erase it's why he interfered in the United States election like this. Isn't some this isn't bucking fake news, conspiracy, bullshit! It's still, you know still it no one has proved yet the Donald Trump knew of coal. You know: colluded in new, have collusion between Putin and up up up up what we do know for a fact that Russian has been interfering in the elections of western democracies
order to weaken them, and we can the NATO alliance like this is not. This is a fact it also it's just. It was whole areas like just and so also frightening. Just like see some of the reactions of people to what Trump did like John Kelly, his chief of staff, was at breakfast with him in Brussels. When Trump went off on Germany and said that, like you know, they were a captive of Russia, because Germany get some of its natural gas from Russia, and you see this picture in this video of, like all of Trump's staff around him and Kelly looks like he's. You know about to pass out and then Serra Sanders after he said that their standard afterwards said that John Kelly was only displeased because he was expecting a full breakfast and they're only pastries, and she he's like. I had to look twelve time to see if that was real. Do you recall like this? Is the chief of staff of the president's day? It's the most powerful are not elected, not confirm person in the guy
frankly- and we try to explain away his anger or is concerned because, based on a an overly voluminous presence of pastries. It's like what are we doing. Like. I am sympathetic, in fact, when I've been many foreign trips know whatever feats the staff, I went to a meeting at looking for bacon and eggs, and I got pastries I'd be pissed too it is not what's happening here and also, if you could talk about the pastries shut, the up about it, don't tell anyone. I mean is weird it's just so it is so embarrassing. It is embarrassing his staff are embarrassing to all of US and in the meeting that Trump called like sort of the emergency meeting, uh trying to figure out like was like in that meeting a senior european official told Accius. The ally look, the other way is when the old uncle gets nuts, that's quote from a senior european of
I'm sure was the most accurate representation of what happened in that meeting. Donald Trump starts. Yelling did all of them in spouting off about something that he's completely wrong about, because he hasn't bothered to actually learn the fucking issue and they're all just thinking. How do we get this guy out of here? in on his way to London before he loses it actually unravels this entire alliance right here and so they're, probably just like sure, yeah We're going to we're all in on NATO, we're going up our defense spending. It's all going to be fine. Please leave us alone and go screw up something else in some other part of the world. I would just love the day, Donald Trump, leaves office sooner than later. I hope I just hope that Mccrone, Theresa, May and Merkel sit down for a joint interview and just tell us all what they had been thinking all this time. It would be really great
would be really great, if maybe a great part of the World episode great Cooker conversation, world leaders crap on Trump Michael Tommy, get on that. Let's get some boots book those world leaders, so the question is, of course some people are like is this? Is this good politics that trump did this because you know american voters they like a lot of spending on foreign aid, they don't like they. You know they're receptive to Trump's argument that the United States is getting screwed by other countries, because No, it's it's good politics. What what do you make of that before we get to the actual quote from Alice. I would like to stipulate that perhaps on some issues like like, maybe the dissolution of a fifty year- security lions that arose out of the bag
that's not the isn't. The weed not interpret it soul least through how it affects voters in Cuyahoga County, but I think I actually don't like that's not the most important and that's like the twelve most important thing, and so we should that, like that, it's just the worst in sync and everything is like. Was this horrible thing that's having to America and the world and everyone other than value? Pretty can objectively say this is bad, but what? If it's good politics like that sort of contrarian heartache is stupid. But if you ask the question I want threat, and I don't think it's good politics. Is it appealing to Trump's base sure. I'm sure it's appealing to them everything appealing to them. What he has actress is appealing to them that what he says about his Billingham day he's with them. I don't care of like there's not doing It's upsetting them
or he does they like whether it can be collude with Russia. It can be anything else in there cool. So that's a really stupid way to even look at the politics. I don't think I don't think voters particularly care about this. I don't think there are NATO voting. Voters who are angry about it. There are anti native voters were like well. Really leaning towards the Democrats, but then I saw Trump really stuck it to Merkel and about how the person for GDP spent on defense. Spending is also notable. I mean it's, it is crazy. I do I think that there is a will be a strong argument. Lesson in twenty eighteen and more two, twenty twenty about four, there will be appealing to a broad swath of non mega hat wearing voters about restoring America's role in the world, and I know this because George W Bush,
in less embarrassing ways, but actually more destructive in terrible ways, ruined America's alliances, the world because he invaded the wrong country after nine eleven and when Brock Llamas running for president people found it very appealing that he could restore our place in the world that Americans wouldn't have to. I told the story before, but how he went to Ireland when Bush was president in college to visit a friend and they told her for the people later when she went to tell every for that. They should tell when they're canadian, because you're gonna get to fight your get her argument about Iraq war. If you tell people you're american and that that sort of thing that bothers people- and it does, I think, a Democrat who will who will run on restoring America's role in the world will be that will be appealing in the short term and things that affect the turnout. Cal
forty, nine well and again. Trump Trump's argument is only good politics, because it's based on a lie like when, if people think that NATO is based on do that, one pays and that the United States is paying all of the money into the NATO pot and no one else is paying their fair share. Then you could see people getting upset, Why are we spending all of our money to uphold this alliance and no one else? do you actually know what the alliance is all about and how and and what increasing spend spending means? Then I don't think it's good politics at all. I mean Trump Trump increased, the in the United States on his own and now he's complaining that no one else is spending enough on their own defense and that we're spending too, he's the one who increase defense spending in this country and by the way on a you know what a popular position is in the United States
we're spending too much money on our military. That's actually. We've that's been true in polls for a long time that people think that were There's too much waste in the military that were like there's all these defense contracts out. There were buying all these fucking planes and jets and military equip so we don't actually need to keep ourselves safe say this is how they fared pretty ridiculous of on all of our call in the german people. But if you look at this a long arc of history, we now have most of our political analysts saying that the following is good politics, Trump Bullies in Germany into building bigger military. It's to which which is- and you know and and- and please is Russia by breaking up the NATO. That's good great job political analysts, you if you have your finger on the pulse of the american people in the end. Look you pointed this out, but you know bring to recent poll. Just forty percent of Republicans now think that the
I'd say it should stay in NATO, while fifty six percent of Republicans consider Trump's relationship with Vladimir Putin Good for the United States, so it I mean it is dangerous and it should be pointed out that what he has done to the Republican Party in the base. The Publican party in the views of the Republican Party is pretty it's awful and it's dangerous and to have You know, even though republicans now makeup, but three thousand four hundred and thirty five percent of registered voters. It's pretty scary that there's a segment of the population who believes that now and they believe it because of Donald Trump and because of Fox NEWS and because of his propaganda machine that said, it's just telling a bunch of lies about this, and I don't know what we do about that. But I do that we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking. It's good politics broadly beyond the Trump base, that's right, that's right! One more thing on Russia. Before we move on,
The Senate on Wednesday, confirmed Brian bench Kowski to be head of the Justice Department's criminal division. Bench Kowski has no prosecutorial experience. Which one would think would be a major problem, but to make matters even worse, he once worked for Shin Bank called Alpha Bank, which is part of this whole. You know by russian oligarch to answer to Putin. So that's a problem so now I have a guy with ties to a russian bank run, criminal investigations at Doj in the middle of a massive investigation into potential crimes with russian ties- and he was confirmed yesterday every Republican, voted for him and Joe Manchin okay. Is going on here than I don't really want. Because it's so like everything else today, it's so crazy! I don't
stand. I it's I've dug into the story. I can't no one is articulated a reason why this person should be in charge of the criminal division. There's no rational argument for there's. Certainly, no fresh argument for Joe Manchin about like. Look? German, thank you for saving the ACA hope you do the right thing on the Supreme Court, but this was a crazy vote and if you think this is going to help you when your re election then you're insane, but like we are in some ways living in the plot of a too absurd to believe Tom Clancy novel. It's a it's going a middle of a mess. This guy's a former Jeff sessions staffer and he could end up like if Trump fires Rosenstein and goes through with this. This guy could end up helping to oversee the investor Asian and he answered under oath during his testimony? I cannot commit to such a recusal at this time. He won't recuse himself from the investigation
should to get to there, even though he has connections to this bank. Even though he's a session staffer, even though he has no prosecutorial experience like it's, you try to resist being dragged into conspiracy theory. I know, but some things are just so obvious, like he doesn't recuse himself because he wants to be in charge of the investigation if session gets fired and it is mind boggling. Maybe it should be mind boggling, but that every single Republican voted for this person. Every single one, like Bob Corker, who thinks Donald Trump, is a cult leader footer for this Jeff Flake, who is so sad about what's happening, the Republican Party voted for this person, Lindsey, Graham who, despite being who is caddy most saturdays at the golf course has expressed concerns about Trump being two pro. Russia voted for this person.
Ben Sasse, who just got a glowing article about how he's the one never trumper to never fault voted for this person. Do you people care about nothing like if you like? I understand it's probably pretty hard to buck trump. On the ACA or the Supreme Court, but this appointment of this incredibly compromised under qualified individual, but a really easy way to remind people that, just for one minute a day, be willing to put your country over party. It's not that hard. I mean it's really like. We have to beat all of these people because they are, they do not to be in charge of shit, let alone the government and states. You know. I really don't want to move on to another story where that's going to make us really but there it is in the news. I want with the Jim Jordan scandal, which we have not talked about yet so first, who is Jim Jordan, he's congressman from Ohio who's, one of the founders of the House, Freedom caucus he's also, one
most enthusiastic peddlers of conspiracy theories that there's a deep state plot to take down. President Trump today, he's being accused of turning a blind eye to sexual abuse. That's alleged to have occurred at Ohio State when he was an assistant wrestling coach there. In the eighties and nineties, eight former Ohio state wrestlers came forward recently, alleging that a former trainer. There, Richard Strauss, molested them, and that Jordan knew and said nothing. One wrestler said that Strauss who committed suicide in two thousand and five could have molested thousands of students. One of the former athlete said that he told Jordan about the alleged abuse directly. The head coach, who Jordan worked for Russ Hellickson, is on video, saying that he can front stress about it and told the administration Dan, the people who were there, the wrestlers, the other coaches, are all saying the Jordan knew what are the chances that all of them are lying about. This.
I would say it is uh. The chances are just about as good as nineteen women who don't know each other coming up with similar stories, about being sexually assaulted by Donald Trump, of course, like of course, right of course, and it like, we don't know everything, but we should. We should believe the victims, and it should be investing dated an Jim Jordan has been caught in a lie on this already 'cause. He first he said he did not know, and then he slipped up in an interview with Bret Baer, where he he he made it pretty clear that it had been There was something different between things that were said to in a locker room, informal complaints about behavior like this, and so after saying he had he had a. He had never heard anything about it. He then implied he had heard something about it, but not enough that would make him actually reported.
So it's pretty clear is why he also has a long history of being a liar, and so I don't know why the entire republican Party and, frankly, a lot of the media are giving him the benefit of the doubt here, a benefit of the doubt they have not. They did have not given other politicians in similar situations. Who've been involved in sexual abuse, sexual abuse scandals, student, the push back by Jordan and his allies. To this story is given air to a conspiracy theory that the allegations are nothing more than a plot to protect FBI agent, Peter Struk, the guy Jordan, others have a q, trying to undermine the investigation into Hillary Clinton's email, server and poisoning the molar probe with political bias, what do you think about this, especially in light of the fact that, as we're recording this reviews and tell defying before Congress now and
you know: we've got Trey, Gowdy and good lat, looking like complete idiots as their their questioning struchen trying two and trying to undermine the molar investigation via these ridiculous text. Are you asking me if I don't find it credible that I have dozen or so Ohio state wrestlers all came together to cook who to decide. They were huge fans of Peter struck and wanted to protect, came together to concoct a story, tectum? No, I do not. I do not find that credible. I do not incredible and it's fucking embarrassing, that This is actually the mainstream view of the Republican Party right now, it's not just like mainstream. This is what Jim Jordan Matt Gaetz into these other cases are saying, but there other members that Republican Party saying that's not true like even if you work, you can very fairly give Jim Jordan the benefit of the doubt here. I bet.
Without. I would remind you that Jim Jordan has given no one in his fucking life right, not Hillary Clinton, not Peter struck, not rod rosenstein not any other individual live today, but if you want to be a better person to give him benefit the doubt and say we have to get the bottom if that's fine, but to allow this idea too, and it's worth thinking about these are victims of sexual abuse, and then you have. The Republican Party attack bring them in accusing them of being part of a thoroughly absurd, but nefarious government conspiracy to protect an FBI agent. That is insane and it's disgusting. Yeah it. In our two party system. We have an insane and disgusting party playing the role of one of those two parties yeah and, like you said it is very mainstream your friend and Mine house, Speaker Paul Ryan. You know said that, even though he's frequently, but it had with butt heads with
in the Freedom caucus said he considered him a man of honesty and integrity. So there's there's Paul Ryan. Basically saying that he he believes Jordan over the wrestlers. He hasn't quite gone into the deep state conspiracy theory, yet like Matt Gaetz, another asset but you know, he's he's standing by his guy, but he didn't shut it down that. This is always the most Paul Ryan thing and I will not pouring rain here, but there is a choice like you can like a good, a normal, normal, decent human being, would find it disgusting that victims of sexual abuse who have come forward are then attacked for coming forward by an absurd offensive lie, and you could say, Jim Jordan. One option would be Jim Jones of integrity.
I have to get to the bottom of this. My experiences with him have been good, but I will say that people should not. That should not be attacking the. We should hear these victims out and not be attacking it. That would be the right thing to do. That would be the thing that required only a modicum of courage to do, but that is, of course not the thing that Paul Ryan did, and this is like it's sort of a microcosm of everything. That's wrong with the Republican Party is at no point. No one has the car stand up to the craziness and that's how we ended up where we are today yeah and if you want to know what the purpose of this whole game was. You know Trey God and good lad, basically just threatened to hold stroke in criminal contempt of Congress for not divulging details of a counter intel, this investigation that Muller's running, because the FBI told stroke that he should not divulge these details, but they want him to divulge these details.
'cause they want to undermine the Muller investigation. That is the whole point that is goal that is uniting the entire republican caucus right now is in the house is to undermine this investigation at any cost, even no matter what kind of crazy conspiracy theories they have to dream up to do it. They just want to protect this president. They want this investigation to go away, so they can go on and pass all of their awful legislation. That's it right, yeah, that's where we are great job, America, good stuff, good stuff. So again we come back to please go register to vote, make sure your friends are registered to vote and go vote November, both them all out. Every single last public and that's it. That's the only way. That's the only way to solve this everything that we've talked about today, uhm, ok, when we come back we'll be talking to Senator Dick Durbin from Illinois
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So I saw him on on Twitter was upset so Dan and Benji and Megan, and I were talking about the fact that spinach artichoke dip need to simpler kind of catchy name. We thought it be funny to call the Santa FE that it feels right, but as someone noted on twitter, because people have opinions- I don't know if you know it's a very California thing, apparently yeah, certainly a California name for it. You know, okay, well, son did send in your suggestions. It's at John Love. It yeah. I actually do that. Sammy's recessions, for what spinach and artichoke dip should be shortened to or renamed, but before you do, that download the cash out yeah. We don't want this suggestions unless you have the cash out. Yeah. That's exactly about that. That's smart and you have because at anyway you put in the code pod say: five dollars goes to you. Five dollars goes to many of the different charities and organizations that are helping reunify families at the border. So it.
Win win and if you download it now now you get to send John Lovett's suggestion to rename spinach and artichoke dip catching a real, a real treat for you. We don't call Buffalo wings, spicy pepper, chick in with wrench. Celery, you know we have a shortened name. This dish needs it down. The cash out and about on the far today we have friend of the pod senator from Illinois, Dick Durbin Senator and welcome good to be with you one talk about Brett Kavanaugh with you, this isn't a person. You're. Just learning about he's someone who's been on the federal bench for more than a decade. He someone you examined really closely when he was nominated by Bush for that seat years ago. What do you feel is most important for your colleagues to understand about who Cavanaugh is in the kind of justice he'd be on the Supreme Court. Put this perspective for years now. We would await controversial court decisions and basically ask
where is Justice Kennedy, because he The swing vote he decisions. Some of them were terrible citizens United is classic example. I'm saying terrible from my perspective, Citizens United, is a classic example, but Oberkfell in terms marriage equality was decision which he wrote and one which I agreed with He really was the swing, vote and now he's leaving, and that means that the true and fate of this court for a generation or more will be the nearby, a successor so putting This decision in that context tells us how important it is and of course we take a look at Judge Kavanaugh who has a record of a dozen years of service in the Dc District Court of Appeals and before that, and even the time in the executive branch of the government working in the Bush White House, He has a lengthy record behind him of things that he's done during the course of his life and as a lawyer and a judge. First, I suggest: there's no,
question these well educated. I mean that's, that's going to be a big issue. Imagine under any circumstances, nor that he has any legal experience. He certainly does, but the real quest. Get down to what kind of a judge is he going to be? Is he going be in the style of Kennedy, at least swing vote, but I'm afraid it is. We look his record closely. We find he's more likely to swing to the far right, the center is Kennedy often did Senator Durbin. A decade ago, you wrote Brett Kavanaugh letter asking why he gave misleading testimony to the Judiciary Committee about the detention of ebony. The combatants you tweeted that later this week in noted that you never heard back. How did he mislead you and what does that? Interaction say to you about who brought cavenall is there's a simple question asked of Brett Kavanaugh when he was aspiring to the Dc Circuit Court, the nomination of another individual and basically boiled down to whether or not
He had any involvement in the in detention and interrogation. Policies of the Bush administration think back Abu. Raven some of the things that were disclosed during that period and he gave and uh Equivocal answered that he had nothing to do with it. Well, it turns out after He was sworn in as a judge on the bench information came out from two different sources, one through Vice President Cheney's office- that he was in fact solved in negotiations and debate within the administration, some of the more sensitive subjects on detention and interrogation he contradicted in say that evidence contradicted what he had said to the Judiciary committee. An answer to my question. So as judge I wrote him a letter asking him to clarify it. Explain: I mean how you could say Underoath one thing, and then evidence comes out directly opposite. He never replied to it's been eleven years he's going to get a chance applied to it. Now, because he's returning to a swarm
Testimony before our committee senator what kinds of conversations have you had with your colleagues in the past few weeks about the risks of holding together against this nomination. On the one hand, there are few red State Democrats in tough reelection situations on the other there wasn't a single Republican who paid a price for refusing to even consider America Garland when President Obama nominated him two years ago? How likely do you think the democratic caucus is going to be able to hold to it's question. Everyone asks and it's the right question. My job is whip of the is to basically count votes, and that means I ask a lot of questions of my colleagues of how they're going to vote. Here's. What I have over a number of years in this job ever believe that you can beg or threaten your way into getting a colleague to vote your way more often than not, all of the time Colleagues in the Senate, on the democratic side, making decisions on the basis of their own? Values-
Their own analysis of the issue in summer tion, of course, on the state that they represent, but if you think that Chuck Schumer can through the caucus and twist one arm after another. That may current under LBJ back fifty sixty years ago? That isn't the case today. Here's what I for sure my Colleagues understand the historic significance of this vote. They know but whoever takes Kennedy seat is likely to swing this court. Generation or more they're taking very seriously, but I can just tell you in this day and age, listing is out, it wouldn't work, it would backfire senator. If the Democrats take the Senate back in the fall how would you approach additional nations for what for what we hope for the final two years of Trump's presidency, not just imprint court nominations, but all judicial nominations well for I mean, let's be honest. This nominee Brett Kavanaugh as well as Gorsuch and virtually every other major judicial nominee had to
see the stamp of approval of an organization known as the Federalist society. The federalist society was created. It's now headed by a man by the name of Leonard LEO to pre, clear judicial nominees. They created the list that President Trump issued with, through twenty four names of potential Supreme Court justices in pre clearing they went back and looked carefully in their background, so they could answer the basic questions. How this judge or justice vote when it comes to the critical issues involving a woman's right to choose, how will they vote when it comes to critical issues about the availability, accessibility of health insurance for Americans, time and again they had to have a check mark before their names before they can move forward. Trust me if we're going to go to a Senate with a democratic majority that is gone.
We're going to make sure that we have nominees that are much more centrist. What we're talking about confirmations? The Senate voted yesterday to confirm a guy who has no prosecutorial experiences but has ties to a russian bank as the head of the Justice Department's criminal division. You've said that putting Brian Bench House key in charge of criminal division. Could prove to be an historic mistake. What was at stake here and what concerns you most now that he's going to be moving into this job listen to, Job description, to be the assistant attorney general in charge of the criminal division, To be in charge of six hundred federal prosecutors in deciding the prosecutions for the most serious crimes in the United States of America. The man who was nominated by President Trump has never had a trial- in his life, not as trial, not a criminal trial countries ever been in a courtroom and he's in charge of the criminal division. Now that's bad enough. I mean
this is just gross negligence to pick someone who's never been in a courtroom to head up. The criminal division of the Department of Justice gets worse turns, after Trump transition he returned to private practice, here in Washington and took on his o'clock. An organization known as the alpha bank alpha? is a russian bank run by an oligarch. This oligarch so close to Vladimir Putin that when he open does London Office for the alpha bank. He invited Putin, then, president of Russia, to be special guest and Putin showed up. They are that close. Now alpha just coincidently tend a turns to be the organization, that's the complete I was pinging against the Trump campaign computer during course, of the last election campaign and alpha, Unfortunately, been under investigation for a number of things. So this Mister Bin,
Kowski agrees after Trump was elected after the allegations about russian Interference to take on alpha as a legal plant, and what was his assignment, take look at the mention of the alpha bank in the steel dossier and decide whether Alpha bank should should sue steel, I mean he was in up to his eyeballs. With this oligarchs bank friend of Putin, time when he was aspiring to be the head of the criminal division of the Department of Justice, I'm not making this up so many coincidences Well, and let me- and let me add as well that When we asked him, will you please recuse yourself from anything involving Russia? He well as assistant attorney general recuse myself, if it's specifically about Alfa Bank, but when it comes to russian investigation. No, I won't recuse myself and you know there are people. A different scenarios. If this president sides to try to fire rosenstein mister
Kowski now could be in line to take it over in terms of designating, whether it's going to be a special counsel or investigation, would continue. Senator one last question before we let you go. You've been a leader as long as I've been in politics on fighting for immigration reform in fighting on behalf of immigrants in this country, What do you make of the idea of reinventing or abolishing ice that is sort of taking hold in parts of the party? Is that something I should be getting on board with and if not, how do you think we should approach approach that issue? I don't think that's a edible position, I'll, be honest with you. I believe and I think I've got evidence to prove it. There's been gross incompetence when it comes to ice in the agencies of the Department of Homeland Security, the fact that they would operate under zero tolerance, three thousand children forcibly removed from their parents, and now they can't link up the parents and the children under court to reunify them- is the most dramatic
ace of incompetence that I've seen at the federal government. So am I ical device. You bet I am as well as the other parts of Dh Dhs that are responsible for this travesty, but saying about polishing. It is like saying we're going to get rid of the Department of Justice. Things will be ok, you know we have jobs to do? Some of them are very important and we want competent people doing them this, pro tolerance policy in three thousand kids separated is Akhilesh, between cruelty and incompetence, making excuses for rice any other press, would have clean shop over there long ago, yeah I was gonna, say. Obviously I think that new immigration policy, immigration reform is, is the single most effective goal that we should push for is Democrats right, but it does seem like this has become. Bit of a rogue agency? Here I mean, I even remember
Obama when he was trying to re prioritize deportations ice was dragging their feet and not quite listening to the directive. They were getting from the White House and from DHS like do you think there needs to at least be serious reform with a nice, because you know they they. Some of these abuses have been documented. Now that it's not just incompetence it's you know, they're committing abuse is to people, there's no question and what you remember is correct. They were a rogue part of the agency, under the Obama administration, when the Obama folks would come, both directives in terms of standards? It was, and any certainty that they would back him up and enforce them. That is an comfortable in any federal agency number one two. Yes, Is a rogue agency still today, but it refill the leadership of this administration? It refer the policies in the sympathies. If I can use that word of Steve Miller and Jeff sessions, you know
Our view on immigrants is a very negative view and, frankly, has been very destructive, and I think that and played out by the Department of Homeland Security. Secretary Nielsen and others they're playing the playbook handed to them by the Trump administration, and that's why we see this outrageous events senator thank you much for joining us. As always, we appreciate you come back again and thanks thanks again, look forward to it all right! That's our show for today. Thank you to Dick Durbin for joining us and have a great weekend well
Talk to you next week, talk to everyone next week.
Transcript generated on 2019-11-13.