Our new Wisconsin poll shows Trump's strengths and vulnerabilities in a pivotal state, the economy shows warning signs of a possible recession, and the White House shows once again that their re-election strategy involves racist policies. Then Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez talks to Jon about immigration, race, the Green New Deal, and Democratic messaging.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Such cricket welcome the Plaza America, I'm John Pepper, I'm dyin try for later in the pod. My interview with Alexandria has your Cortez join me cricket, H Q, for a very funny linked to chat yesterday, but first we have the results of our latest twenty twenty polar coaster Series of change research.
We are also going to talk about the rising risk of a recession and the Trump administrations latest attempt to limit legal immigration.
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Only if you know anyone in North Carolina who isn't registered to vote or isn't sure, please remind them that this Friday August sixteenth is the deadline. There's a
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North Carolina, uncrooked minis with our political directors, unequal Mc Linden. Ok, let's kick things off at the
Results of the latest in our twenty twenty polar coaster series with change research. This time we pulled me
early two thousand general election voters in a state of Wisconsin and we asked them all kinds of questions, including whether certain messages made the more or less likely to vote for Donald Trump or the democratic candidate and twenty twenty now before you to the results, do
in this particular Paul was your idea and a fantastic idea. It was
Why did you want to pull Wisconsin, and why did you want this to be a general election pull instead of another primary pole? Well, gimme a couple differ reasons
there is a primary Paul coming out every three seconds and Democrats like
the media pod friends of the pod there.
Matters are not lacking for pulls about
whose winning the rice and they are to have a move that much in a long time. So there's it's sort of we're consulate in the dream content so
My thought was wet
an area there would be of great interest. That is, that does nothing
calls and Wisconsin is the
but the most important state as the map.
Currently stands for. What's going to decide, twenty twenty is what we call the tipping point state its. Why Trump became president it's the clearest path for democratic.
At the White House back as to flip
Wisconsin Michigan Pennsylvania, the three states that Trump slept and
I wanted to do this pole differently. To do it.
Way that made it look more like the campaign polls that we ve been working on our whole life.
Opposed to the media, balls, which are totally find but
It is worth doing part because we wanted to give you a reply.
Some guidance and advice to the larger programme
if universe, about what
pull says, maybe may work in Wisconsin yet, and so just go back to what you're saying about the tipping point state. The reason we call was concerned. The tipping point state is: if Democrats win Wisconsin
It is almost a sure thing that we have also one Pennsylvania in Michigan, because the demographics and was content are tougher for us than was consonant Pennsylvania. It still possible that we could lose was constant, Michigan and pencils,
all three of them again, but the reason we say was confidence tipping point as it is the toughest of the three and the
he's in it important important, because if we do lose Wisconsin, as you say, down the path to seventy narrows, we could replace was kind
with Arizona which is another very important state. But of course Democrats haven't won Arizona and a presidential contest in quite some time, even though we did win in twenty eighteen, so Arizona is a possibility, but yeah. That's that's why we call it a tipping point state.
And yes on campaigns on the Obama campaign in eight and twelve
other campaigns we ve been on frequently when we put a pole on the field in a swing state like Wisconsin. We would test various messages about our candidate in about the opposing candidates, about the Democrats and about the Republicans and from those messages we will get a good sense of where voters are what issues are important to them and which contrasts with the other party
other candidate are most effective, it actually moving voters and persuading. Yet that's the difference right. A media pole is designed to give
Readers of said, media outlet a
window into what is happening in that state. At that moment
right. It is a snapshot in time in a
Paypal, you it's interesting to know what is.
Happening right now. If
lay to serve as a baseline, but the whole point of the campaign for to figure out not what
I'll be right. Now is how to change the outcome on election day, and so,
try to designers Paul in a way.
That more resembled that then a typical mediaeval, ok,
without further Ado, let's talk about some of the results and and will start with the standard horse re stuff before moving.
And the more interesting message, testing inward
constant. The president's job approval rating is forty. Eight percent approve fifty one percent disapprove much higher
It is nationally his approval
on the economy, is even higher. Fifty percent to forty eight percent overall
forty six percent of all voters say they will definitely or probably vote for whoever the democratic candidate is forty five percent of voters,
will definitely or probably vote for Trump three percent say they'll vote for third party candidate and six percent are undecided.
Dan. What do you think of those numbers surprising to you?
concerning, but not surprising and may we would love to get uphold. It said that Trump,
national approval reading, which is forty to forty three dividing.
What measure use why's. That would be his
reading the swing states, but he is pulling at what is a very viable with number for him and was content and excuse and perspective traumas it forty eight,
here when Barack Obama, one Wisconsin by nearly seven points on election
it's twenty twelve, his approve
Reading an exit polls was forty. Eight percent who had is concerning
and just to dig into these numbers all. But you know the there are certain groups of voters who will probably decide the election in a one.
Saw with the electorate in Wisconsin. It is extremely polar
Just so you know Trump is only getting a three percent of Democrats, the democratic, and it is only getting two per cent of Republicans rights,
both parties, very polarize independence, who are thirty, five,
sound of the electorate in Wisconsin in this Paul lean Trump. Forty three to forty one. So he's got a slightly with independence in this Paul.
And then there are a couple others or a swing groups. Here the people who voted for a third party and twenty sixteen were currently make up about a quarter of the undecided vote in Wisconsin. They lean towards the Democrat by
thirty to twenty two percent and then the twenty sixteen non voters, people who did not vote in twenty sixteen, but who say they are going to vote in twenty twenty they make up about. Sixteen percent of undecided voters, they lean towards the Democrats by forty five to thirty percent, so there is some opportunity for the democratic candidate with two thousand and sixteen third party voters and non voters, but
Still I work to do in that category is well done what you think about the above sort of the swing groups. Here I mean that's exactly right in it speaks to
what we try to talk about in politics, more generally as early
twenty twenty, which is you can't fire?
critically in these midwestern swing, states you're gonna have to do
both, and by that I mean we're. Gonna have to persuade some people who voted for a third party candidate or voted for try.
Last time and finally,
people who didn't vote and twenty sixteen and turn them out, like they're they're, just very little margin for error in these
like some other states like Texas in Florida, North Carolina have these very large pockets of.
Unregistered, likely, democratic voters. Often voters of color that you can go out and organizing get too
and that alone, if you could be no pull off, that feet, could Tipp those states
These been western states have been
incredibly have been registered. You know, that's the low hanging fruit has been taken from recent elections. They have shrinking
populations and a lot of cases and others just the formula
new voters. Turning out the base and persuading some folks in the middle and
and I don't even mean the middle ideologically. I just meet people who either agenda for its independence or voted for Trump in the past. I see you know like
This pole reinforces the idea that the path of it,
and was continent and to get to seventy is sort of an air,
is not an end or strategies and an both strategy
so we're not gonna talk too much about the democratic candidates, because a father
since we mentioned at the top. Also, you know none
early state poles. Don't tell you too much about the race. This is undeniable polar New Hampshire pole. The candidates are campaigning here, so you shouldn't take it too seriously, but I
say that Elizabeth WAR
has the highest favorability among democratic voters. Eighty three percent favourable
and is currently leading the horse racing was consonant twenty nine percent, followed by Bernie Sanders, a twenty four percent, Joe Biden at twenty percent and everyone else in single digits.
Didn't anything to say about the democratic grace before we move on to the to the good stuff. No,
think. It's interesting that war is winning, it tells us, it probably tells us more about
her surge nationally and in the early states. Then it says you about who's. Gonna win was concept because they're gonna be several cataclysmic. Political events at happen that shake up the race and window the field between now and then the fur
early stay contest. Most obviously will change the race
is interesting by its out. Why we're doing this year and I should say for people who look into the cross tabs if you look at
favourably to waiting for all of our democratic candidates in the field. Among all voters, they dont look.
Great right now, they're all underwater, but people should know
that one reason for that is because a lot of
democratic candidates are not getting, you know high percentages among Democrats right now,
because they're all fighting it out in the primary. So if you have it
to date that you really like. You are also likely to say that you dont like as much of the other democratic,
the day, where there's a nominee, usually those numbers will change, but
they even among a general election.
Right now war and has a higher
They really ratings. That is driven by the fact that she has the highest favourably ratings among Democrats themselves. Ok, so we talked about trumps,
drank in Wisconsin, he's overall job approval and the current advantage that he has in the economy. Let's talk about its potential weaknesses, weed.
A the series of positive and negative messages about Donald Trump over
all the anti drug messages were more persuasive than the protocol messages in the most persuasive antitrust messages. The messages that made voters say they were much less likely to vote, for him largely had to do with Trump being a phoney populist who governed as a plutocrat v most persuade
the message was about Trump, proposing nearly a trillion dollars in Medicare cuts to pay for his tax cuts for the rich
it made voters say they were less likely to support trump by a margin of thirty eight points. Several messages were close behind that one trump using his office to enrich himself and his family business trumps failed trade war with China
trumps record on outsourcing, there is also one non economic message that was very effective, a reminder that Trump has been credibly accused of sexual assault by more than a dozen women Dan
came out of campaign retirement? You wrote an entire strategy memo for Democrats about these findings. What are you
take a ways and what's your advice
sure so the first take away, as we pointed out at the top, is that Trump is very strong from Scotland much stronger in Wisconsin than he is
nationally and that's because the demographics, but for two other reasons, one
He has strengthened the economy. His echo
for preventing was conceived as a few points higher than his actual prove operating and higher than his vote share in the public and acting as events to him
The second of energy has is that he has managed to weapon eyes, immigration in the state and he had image.
It is by far the number one is
You picked by Trump voters,
but can and even independence, and so that is-
two trumps great advantage by what
I was really borne away by in this pole. Is that for all
of Troms dominance of the media, the fact that Trump is
talked about covered twenty four seven in the bulk of that coverage is negative.
Leaders are still are woefully unaware of very important parts of his record and
as history of being a liar, has a check past and has erratic
behavior. Voters are willing to believe these it
it gets from their persuasive to them, and so
I think it identifies both a
a reality in the media environment that their oars that thing might hurt gladness who's the most covered, but least well known poorer than those famous unknown person. In America and there's a lot of
rooted out that when it came to who the real Hillary Clinton is the person she was
with tromp. Is people know a lot about a few things about tromp. They happen to be the things that, according to our people, are not particular persuasive,
voters. Voters have no idea that he is
pros cutting Medicare to be first ask if they have no idea what the act
sure impact of its trade policies. Are they have no idea that he supports,
a new NAFTA plan that is supported by the big drug companies in Wall Street in the big corporations. I have no idea that he supports a new NAFTA and each other. This is really interesting, and this is included in my mellow. I hadn't even yet figured out the right way in which it
they could use this, but the fact that they don't know about the
Accusation of sexual sort against President show that there is a giant gap between what is being done
about in what is breaking through the voters, and so there is a real
virginity to move
the race against Trump by exposing voters to
this piece of information that matter to them. That would not get
them otherwise you're never going to be cover their never break through all
the noise in the frankly legitimate stories that the media discovery and
so there there is opportunity here in what is interesting about. It is one of the hardest things in a campaign run you're running Ensign incumbent is
introduce new information about? How could they generally have paid out paid attention to what they come? Does they have a sense of who they are sense of what they have done? But when
comes to Trump. There are huge.
Parts of his record that are entirely unknown to the public and therefore they are.
Price by it, and
makes him question their support. It numbers that I have rarely seen in
a race for an incumbent running for reelection
yeah. I was also surprised to and look when when we asked people. Ok, here's here's some information about Donald Trump, as is the way that we set up the question is: would read them the information about Donald Trump and then say? Does this make you more likely to support Donald Trump, less likely to support Donald Trump, no difference
and the fact that a lot of these messages are the ones that I just talked about me
not only Democrats, that's obvious, but moved independence who
by two points. Currently in Wisconsin, you know
independence by ten twenty points on some of these issues said that they were much less likely to vote for it
And even some of the move, some Republicans, you know so
and I think the other the other important thing is. It is not just naked
information about Trump himself, his behaviour, his offensive statements that is persuasive to voters here it is negative information about trumps policies and the impact there having on people. That's it.
Point. It's about. You know with the tax law and the Medicare stuff it's about now. I'm gonna see potential cuts to medical
with the trade war, its Wisconsin farmers are hurting from this and trumps bailing out. You know big agribusiness and China right with
the Trump enriching himself, its he's. U, his ease enriching himself and his businesses at the taxpayer's expense right. So every one of these messages that talks about how these policies or his actions or his behaviors actually affected people are big, more persuasive to voters, which I thought was interesting, because I dont think we'd
let those dots enough. So looking at this pole identified three areas, that Democrats could focus their message on one: a rolling trumps advantage on the economy, and when you tell people about
what his actual policies are in the actual impact of
what it does is
undermine strengthen their country because it it hits him on the fact that he is full of shit that he ran a populist but has governed as a plutocrat to hit him on
Our cuts, the media narrative is Democrats, are committing political suicide by talking about Medicare for all, but an hour pole.
Frumps Medicare cuts are a much bigger vulnerability for him than any democratic position on medical care for all or some form of that plan as in third.
Is hitting a modest failure to drain the swamp and the fact that you melody failed to train it he's profiting off that corruption. Add if you
You can do those three things in the way to do that. Is it
not going to be holding press conferences and getting stories in the New York Times. It is going to be through a sustained, targeted digital advertising campaign. This is
This part is a hypothesis on my part. Based on this point, you need more point to say, but what I think makes these attacks effective is one its new information,
That's my sport second part is: it is specific fact based information. It is now
overheated political rhetoric is not doesn't sound political add it is introducing voters to
information. They did not otherwise, no ineffectual way in the same way that, in previous non
fuck that media environment people just get it from watching the news or reading newspaper in
and doing it for sustained period of time, because one
point in this poles. We shall be balls information in it. It did not move the horse races dramatically.
Which tells me that tell
people these things once.
Is not enough to fully move them away.
From supporting tromp or out of the Third Party undecided category, but it starts the pie,
so you're. Gonna have to do this over a sustained period of time. Also,
people who have not made up their minds about them,
politics is not the most central part of their life did not follow at twenty. Four seven has been sadly
It may, even within this part, guessed but two,
over time. You can move people there and there is. There is a roadmap here that I think
works in Wisconsin, improbably works in a lot of other places, but if it can work in Wisconsin it can work and all the other states that are slightly easier to win in Wisconsin, because this was content is
of the course date
we pointed out. Prob
the hardest wine did Obama, one in twelve for a democratic one in twenty. I think you're last point about people who are paying super close attention of politics is sound
the bubble of people who pay super close attention to politics. That's the twitter bubble, that's the cable bubble, that's everyone, we sort octoo, and so you get a lot of people
cable bubble, that's everyone we sought talk to, and so you get a lot of people,
when you say oh well, you know trumps going to propose this cut to medical.
This thing whatever and they'll say that doesn't matter his people? Don't matter Democrats already know that bubble? You know it's like no there's a ton of people out there, most people who are not paying attention to
free up and down the new cycle in every new piece of information about Donald
They are living their lives, they are busy, they are
doing other things right like they may catch a Cairo
cable news, or they might look on Facebook every once a day to check out the headlines, but they are not
following every contour of this race right now, and the only way to break through to those people is through a sustained advertising campaign.
That is not magic. That is nothing new. That is how campaigns have been run for
many many many years, but it
seems now like, because so many people, people out of people was from his pocket
asked us everyone else, because we are so tuned into the news every single day. We
assume that everyone else's thinking the same thing while
There is a big two other points, wine. What I think proves that
Tromp is getting a lot of coverage, but the issues in matters most to voters or the things that could change their position on tromp. They have not seen as relevant this pole in this
the two of the least effective attacks that we tested were.
What about the rush investigation and the other moments? Interestingly enough about the Asia, now trumps plan to repeal it with that,
that tells me that vote,
this non savers on care about those things not far from it, but the people know them
right, which one of them is the Russia part, is obviously due to the massive amounts of coverage it has gotten rightfully so
The second one is actually credit to the Democratic Party. Like look
cause in which had a
governance race, where the SBA and not an Skywalker support for getting rid of it, was at the centre piece congressional races. You had Timmy Baldwin running a Senate race and so
County Democrats have done a great job of
making sure voters know that tromp once repeal the issues that electing Republicans wall led to their appeal, the Asia.
And so that's move people into work, a pastrami. Why democratic winning by one right now? But you finish the job,
we should tell them new. Thanks, doesn't mean, don't talk about those things we, of course we talk about those new information.
But what is different in this media environment in previous campaigns is people would think you're fucking bananas in a previous cycle.
You told them. You should start advertising the general election in the summer of the year before right,
Traditionally, people might think you were crazy. Some people seem to be wrong, so we would thank your career.
We're doing it in the summer of the year of the election that you should wait till the apartment people pay attention, the
But we have now and are incredibly crowded media environment. Is it this time?
time, and you also have the capacity to target your ads through digital platforms. It didn't exist anymore, so there is an imperative to do this now. I will say
a lot more work. That needs to be done. There is some good news
priorities. Usa, the leading democratic Super back as made plans to go into a constant, I think, sooner rather than later, it's a state with a start and then go be. Other efforts is also not just advertise in these messages are also that can be used at the door. They can be used on
phones and they can be used in people doing dish
organizing themselves, as they are communicating with there
swing, voters etc and their wives, you know either an actual human conversations of those still exist.
But on Facebook, or wherever else like this is a road map for how you persuade people, the other thing
it popped into my mind, as I was reading. Some of these messages, and which ones are most effective, is isn't the best way to run against Donald Trump to turn him into Mitt. Romney
heavy like that. All of this reminded me of the attacks. We ran against Mitt Romney and twenty
twelve. When we made sure that voters understood he had plutocratic policy,
Whether it was the when he picked Paul Ryan is VP, and we talked a lot about Paul Ryan's budget to cut entitlements to cosmetic cares of security Medicaid to pay for a tax cuts, whether it was Romney's record in business of outsourcing
and I mean all this stuff started, reminding me of the ads and the contrast that we made with Mitt Romney twenty twelve.
Yeah. I think it was pushing on an open door with robbed me, because he was a multi millionaire private equity executive who literally built a car for his elevators
accounts. We say things like he doesn't care about the very poor and for seven percent of people aren't real Americans and all of that, and so that was a so
It's a little bit pushing on open door with Romola harder with shrunk, as he is branded himself, as this blue collar
oh working populist, but the advantage with Trump is the vote
did not like round these policies that they found him to be what some they really want to hang out with, but they thought he was a good person.
Right, where Trump has an advantage on some populist credentials that can be eroded
to move against them, but is
he is someone that you can. You can connect his plutocracy with his car
and that's these policies that heat as our benefit.
Came in. He is benefiting from a corrupt system that he is maintaining and
There is this other area that comes because even voters who, like Trump every questions about his character,
the other interesting thing we did across a range of issues. We also tested the Trump republican message against the progressive demo.
Message and then the less progressive democratic message. So the way we did this like say on health care, we basically said the republican messages. What Trump and Republicans have been saying on health,
right. We want to repeal the affordable care, but we want to protect preexisting conditions. It's obviously bullshit, but that's their message. That's getting to voters, so we tested that and then on the deck
Credit message: we tested one democratic message that was a form of the public
and one that was about Medicare for all, and I will say that
does it care for all in the most favourable way possible. We said that undermine occur for all you would have to leave your private insurance. For
government plan, but you would be able to keep your doctor. The Medicare for overall message
a bit better with Democrats than the public option message.
While independence were evenly split on the public option, they were negative too.
Medicare for all by a thirteen point margins that something to keep in mind for Democrats, racial inequality,
de we had one message from Democrats that mentioned reparations and one message that mentioned investing
Communities of color and doing whatever we can to end discrimination
the message that mentioned reparations was by far the most negatively. Viewed of any message that we tested with loans,
ex among independence and even relatively low marks. Among Democrats. The other message, however, which talk
bout alleviating racial inequality by ending discrimination. Investing in communities of color was one of the most successful messages that we tested. So
language matters the way we talk about things matters in kind
My account tax matters to realise them like in the meadow
here discussion, nothing that
unity- says it Democrats can either winner freighter draw on these issues, but the want of reparations.
It is I'm sure that came as a surprise to a lot of.
Well, you have to be pretty deep in politics and other that has been a topic of discussion. The contacts that democratic primary- and so I am sure that
much like the negative information against Trump hearing. That probably has those a shock value too. If it moves numbers
yeah- and it said the other thing in this sort of surprise me. There were no clear winners on immigration, climate and guns so on these
issues the difference in support between the more progressive positions
on immigration that was decriminalizing border crossings and health care for undocumented immigrants on climate. It was
a deal and on guns it was gun licensing. There was not that big of a difference between support for those position
Then the support for the more moderate positions which were pathway to citizenship for immigration, investing in clean energy for climate and background checks for good
they were all sort of within the margin of error, so that that was that may be an indication.
That we should be a little less concerned about the heated debate in the
were credit primary over. You know which possess
and is more politically palatable than we currently are there. I would say a lot less concerned
few other take. Always I find interesting, and then you can say any more than you found interesting. We did
has a series of positive and negative descriptions of Donald Trump and between forty seven and fifty three percent
voters agreed with every description except one trump drain, the swamp, which only thirty three percent of people agreed with
sixty six percent of independence and even twenty seven percent of Republicans disagreed. The trump drained the swamp so,
no one believes that that bullshit happen
early, is not a lot of people and then the
Christians again the descriptions of trumpet where most voters, including,
independence, agreed trumpets, corrupt trumpets focused on himself. Not U Trump, fight for the wealthy incorporations, not working people and Trump is an ineffective leader. Those were the most part.
We descriptions of Trump one of them was Trump is a racist voters are split here. Forty nine per
and agree, and fifty percent disagree that was much closer in Wisconsin,
the only other thing I want to mention is that republican views,
on race in immigration, as you might expect, are not great by fifty six to fifteen percent. Republicans think immigration does more harm than good twenty. Four percent of Republicans don't have a problem with separating children from their parents. Thirty, four percent of Republican.
Think that when non whites are a majority, it will be mostly a negative thing and eighty four percent of Republicans think that discrimination against whites has become as big of a problem as discrimination against people of color really, but that in
not great throw, how great was there anything else that stuck out at you before we are before we move on? No, I thought
You know we sort of hit all the key points. Wisconsin's close, but it is when a bull you know all the
these things. You know all the ideas here. The message is were at war. The re stands leads us to the fact that was Constance gonna be incredibly close when we find it when the votes from his constant command and they often
come in late, that it know whose president say present my guess and
The other thing I would say is that
We glad that
ideas, unbiased, I'm really glad it cricket media.
Change research did this? What I think it is at least serves to start the conversation about democracy to do and moves the conversation just beyond simply the state of the democratic
which is very important, but we should be walking and chewing
and it was the caught between watching Tommy's Instagram stories about Iowa and writing
an old school campaign strategy. My mouth there have been waves as stature this week for previous part of our lives. I was
say too, that our friend Ben Winkler is the new chair.
There was content democratic party and I sent him these results before we announced them just to see what he thought and you know,
Ben's reply was well. This
Tell me what I knew, which that was Constance, gonna be close and also there's no one.
Single magic messengers
over bullet. You know there's a lot of good messages here that we can work with, but what this really means is we need to organise or
eyes. Organizing was content as much as possible. We need to mobilise and persuade as men
motors as possible, this is gonna, be one on the ground and if you wanna help, if this
Oh has worried you are concerned.
Or you care about was content which you should
You can go to waste dot, Org slush volunteer to sign up to volunteer. If you,
near Wisconsin you're in Wisconsin. You live there or, if you're, not wisdom, dot, Org, Slash pod, that as a special link where you can go and donate to the Wisconsin Democratic Party, they could use your help. They could use your funding. As we know,
whole, twenty twenty election could come down to the state and Ben is putting a fantastic organism.
On the ground there. There registering voters much as they can their knocking on doors in persuading people their finding every last.
Persuadable voter in Wisconsin so go help out. Do it you can we meet
this concept POD save America's broad you buy. Figs
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Godfather reference. What you got, I believe in Sampson Coca TAT is
Ok, so we just
but Trump strengthen the economy in our Paul. Until now, that strength has been based on a steady stream of good health
it's about a growing economy and low unemployment, but on one
Tuesday. The DOW fell. Eight hundred points amidst
signs that indicate the american and global economies may be headed towards a recession, including
shrinking german economy, slowing many
acting in China and what Trump called in all capital letters.
A crazy inverted yield curve here in the United States,
What the hell is he talking about and how concerned should we be about these warning signs.
What we should be concerned for sure and the I am not an economist
I know what come as a all the time I know I know is that not
be crazy, inverted yield,
is a sign that has been used to indicate a coming recession in previous times. It involves the difference in price between two year term bonds and ten year term bonds. I think that's right, don't ask me if I got that wrong
and so yes, there are. There are very real warning signs in the economy. Some of them are global and beyond the scope of Wyatt, trumpet
in practice. Reminder that presents only have a limited in
act on the economy, one way or the other kids it s, because we live in a global economy for better or for worse,
But the second part of this is that Trump has.
Is playing a role in this with his
trade war inches generally erratic leadership and bad.
Patients with all of the key players who would help us off this problem? Yeah. I think that say I didn't
important point and you look like you said we we traffic in political, nerd, twitter. If you look on econ nerd, twitter
You'll find a whole bunch of arguments. That say, you know an inverted yield curve that has proceeded every recession in the past fifty years, and so we should all in a freak out,
a resurgence coming, there's also plenty of analysis. That says no, it's wrong this time
we're gonna be ok.
Maybe there are signs of slowing, but our recessions not imminent, so you can. You can find either kind of analysis by the employer,
what's what's scary to me, is thinking about going into a recession, or God forbid, going into an economic crisis with Donald Trump. Is president because you and I live through both a presidential campaign that then turned into an admission administration that started with an incredibly horrible economic crisis, the worst since the great depression and
it ain't easy to govern through that and the way that the world got through. That is, you know a Brok Obama.
Angela Merkel, allow
of other world leaders, work together,
They were incredibly close. They pulled the global economy together back from the brink by all working together. We do not have that situation right now, Trump, his pissed off most of our allies. We have
sort of right wing, authoritarian governments rising around the world. So it to me thinking
about what would our political situation at home in our political situation and in the political situation in many other countries around the world is horrible. I mean people, the poet political systems and democracies.
In crisis all over the world and trying to imagine Donald Trump and the Republican Party that controls most Washington right now, using the tools necessary to pull us out of recession or pull us back from the brink of crisis. You know I simply
dont have a lot of confidence, and that is to say the least yet mean is it in we dealt with this both in two thousand and nine, when there is an actual financial crisis, but for much of Obama's. First term. United,
slow as it was, but a strengthened, faster and more solidly than Europe and you bit in part, because Europe is so interconnected and we
at most of the first term, spending Obama spending hours and hours days and weeks and months
working with Europe to help prevent Europe from stumbling into another financial crisis, either spurred by debt in Greece or a whole host of other issues, and it was incredibly com.
Get it and we were able to navigate it for a couple reasons. One. The government was stocked with people who are experts and financial crises, because
That's what that's who we hired, because that's what we wherein we were elected and its people, and these
credibly smart technique of technocratic. We broke
folks, and in our security Council, Economic NASH, Economic Council, Treasury State Department, etc, who
had worked on these issues before and had relationships with all the players.
Right. They knew the they knew how to work with the EU or the European Central Bank or the I M F,
They knew people in
in all the key countries in Europe, and so with. There is like a group of really smart people: U S in foreign
working to solve this problem in the other partners. Really important was present. Noble,
I had very
strong relationships with Angela Merkel, David
Cameron who, while a member conservative party who had a terrible austerity agenda, was a sign
what guy and he and Obama trust each other and alive
in France? Who was a charge that and they would like it, every
like summit there were. They would get together. They work on these issues to await the night. In none of that exists. Now you don't have the
Many of the jobs in which you need people to work on this stuff are empty
or there are filled with some. You know,
Republican punted, who at a good Fox appearance at the right time and the people in charge in the people in charge of it. The national, the director of the National Economic Council is a tv pundit, the
the director of the National Security Council is
a tv pundit with a
No one likes and emotive are scared of end the
head of the Treasury Department is the guy
the producer of suicide squat. So we are
sending our best to deal with? What is it
credibly, complicated problem, and if you want a preview of how Trump might handle
a recession or economic downturn. You just you know, look at his Fuckin twitter feed for the very last yesterday he's going to attack the FED
attacking the Federal Reserve as like his number one strategy here, because these
and I want them, you know we want them to cut interest rates, even more he's going to blame China,
here and there and then he just gonna, lie and tell everyone that everything is wonderful, even though it's not
Don't think he has a lot of two other tools and the toolbox to deal with. Whatever might happen, I will
just I'd. Ask you one question giant who will pointed the current fetcher blue
was Donald Trump Dan. It was. It was here.
Taking the guy he picked for the job I wouldn't
the further there's an article on the post they yesterday or today. Already yesterday. I don't really know what they showed the paper anymore, but the basis
is that when you talk to people in penetration there is no plan. No one is talking anyone the the only
energy is to try to sign
a bully the FED into additional rate cuts.
There is a problem here which is
in a normal world? If the? U S would hit recession, there is a
As you are getting you out of recession, which is you stimulus
the economy, with a combination of government spending and putting money people's pockets through
tax cuts or other ways, apparel tax or something like that, and the problem
have is trumped just took trumpet rubbing.
One point five trillion dollars over the Rainy Day find and use it to buy yachts for rich people.
So the cupboard is empty. We don't have smart people dealing with it. The we have
Already injected and economy, we didn't such ass backwards way that it did nothing for the economy and
four staring down the girl, something very scary, so great so, but the political significance of an economic slowdown, unit, Nate, silver tweeted, the other day that
He guesses that lowering the gdp by one percent would reduce trumps reelection chances by ten to fifteen percent. That was just sort of back of the envelope math from nature.
Sure, but what it? What do you think of sort of the political significance of an economic slowdown?
don't you have needs. Math is right. Who who might question need servers math by I, sir? They grew at this point, which is the stronger the economy, the better chance,
Europe has to win
even in a stronger economy. As we talk about the section of the Scots and pull, there are ways to undermine that economic strength and still, when the election,
This is bad news.
So there's a lot of
Our political analysis that show
tromp strength is help propped up by the fact that the economy is going well or seems to be, have been going well and that people
that it that it creates a permission structure for the people who don't I trumps tweets and, unlike its racism ill, they have other concern
is going well. Why change horses mid race in South Asia
did that dynamic would choose the election fundamentally now, how do you think democratic and handle this
because at you I remember when Democrats were in power. You know we would frequently point out that it seemed like Republicans, were rooting against the economy, rooting for a session reading, Canst America, obviously
Democrats dont want to seem like that, how to Democrats sort of talk about trumps economic?
occurred or how is handling the economy without sort of seeming like work rooting for a session which I'm certainly I am certainly not
now imagine recession.
I think it's sort of its a twofold strategy:
one is: don't accept the point
The economy is good right now. The ports of the kind
the stock market as high release. It was until this week the
unemployment rate is love. Those are good wages,
still barely botched the costs of health care college.
Housing have all gone up the prices that
Healthcare dreams have gone up and dropped, but with the middle of the american dream in middle class, bargain are reported to be his suffer
under this presidency, and so I think,
Why don't? You start up affirms the argument to say it's great now, but boy, it's going.
It bad and then we'll show tromp add the other part.
If that is.
Democratic should have
policies that I don't think they d come out with an economic
stimulus package or something like that right now, but they do have to acknowledge that there are storm clouds on the horizon in their policies in the rhetoric should reflect that and then I think the third and final point not for them.
Democratic party, but for our voters is.
If a recession is coming, this is the worst.
Of all. Is it may start towards the end of trumps presidency by it may not be felt,
to have a massive political impact and told her crack it's an office in so coarse. If the idea
We can't swap out Mahler further recession in our view that some
he's going to save us from Trump. We
if they do all the same work is often like all the same arguments and the
Indeed, there is this always in times a sense that, like the scales,
critical justice will balance in something well, some exactness of that will come in here and knocked trump out over the White House
in nothing, that's happening here, suggested that's going to happen. This is still all gonna happen on the margins.
In trouble be running for even absent. A serious, immediate financial crisis trumpet probably running for reelection anymore.
You better environment.
Brok. Obama wasn't two thousand and twelve
Obama wine by pretty much margin, so
one of the economic headwinds. The trump is directly responsible for the trade war. He sat with China that he is now losing, and so, according to business, insider quote
on Wednesday calmer Secretary Wilbur Ross, one on CNBC to explain the administrations decision to delay a portion of the planned tariffs until December fifteenth, which would have affected the restive chinese imports into the United States
He said it a desire to protect shoppers from any adverse effects during the holiday season. Given the goods affected, it included laptop cellphones toys and video game consuls among others,
asked by reporters about the delay on implementing tariffs on Monday Trump said: quote: we're doing this for
Christmas season, just in case some of the tariffs, would have an impact on consumers.
Then what's going on here, I could have sworn our president has told us over and over again that China pays for the tariffs. Just like Mexico pays for the wall. What's what's all this about the canoe
Well, it seems, like perhaps Trump be diverted from his traditional role,
as fact based straight shooter and
maybe in line to us about these tariffs yeah the great cellphone, thereby Donald Trump, just admitting that he's been fuckin bullshitting us for a long time. On this, how should Democrats talk about trumps trade war?
I mean we, you know we tested a pretty great message in our Wisconsin Paul Great, because it was one of the most persuasive messages we tested. It basically read like this,
Donald Trump started a trade war with China that is hurting Wisconsin farmers and he's
Borrowing more money from China to bail out huge corporate farms, including some based in foreign countries. Again, this is all true
go down it's hard euro dollar through meat.
I think trade is a
even before these economic headwinds trade was a massive public opportunity for Democrats, because it's a huge part, a trump strength. It is why
I think helped him appeal to a lot of the Obama,
Voters in these midwestern battleground states,
because it was different. Then they message that Romney was giving our Mccain was giving an o or any traditional republican right
by here what he campaigned on and what he's done, an office or two very different things, and you can hit him both because-
as it is an incompetent execution of the Straits Reggie and
and in our emissions in there was got section, is the fact that he is pursuing a second NAFTA. There.
Is good for corporations that bad for workers is a is another
John Ability, so I would run very hard at trump strength. Insarov, ignore the traditional political advice. Were you got their weakness,
from strength on this, and I do think
that there is an interesting. You hit the politics of this a really interesting and you can connect a lot of trumps. Recent tweets way
his decision to enter a trade war with no exit strategy, which is a very real wave entering worse,
and his he has been unable in
willing to side with the protesters in Hong Kong or criticise the Chinese directly, because he
in a place now where the
Chinese can help can
all his ability get reelected cause you
he needs them to blank in some way, shape or form to let him back out of the corner on the trail, to give from some sort of win to help him, and so
because of that he's forced to side with the autocrat.
kind of protesters in China in this.
One thing I think you were disconnecting trumps crazy, twitter feed with happy in the world. Is he? What is
the bad NEWS about China, the baddies, but the economy, the drop in the stock market yesterday?
Hundred points is directly related to trumps incredibly offensive. Incredibly disgusting tweet today about
Johan, Omar and proceeded to leave. I guess
he's trying to change that. He knows he needs to change the conversation away from the economy and its own actions on the economy, and so
he definitely is you since a vulnerability.
In what he's doing by reading as to its. I think important mentioned that last by about the tweet today, because you, the other thing that happened this week, that sort of illuminates Trump strategy, which is to make the race,
all about race and immigration and white identity. Politics is that the Trump Administration announced it was moving forward. The planned designed by
see, plus Santa Monica Fascist, Stephen Miller, to deny green cards to legal immigrants who currently use or are likely to use public benefits like medicate housing, assistance and nutrition assistance. The rule expands the so called public charge. Language has been on the books for more than a century during the press or for the announcement acting director of citizenship,
migration services can Cornelie offered his own Emma Lazarus Remix. When he said that the
words on the statue of Liberty read as follows, and I think we have a clip. Would you also agree that Emma Lazarus his words etched on the statue of liberty? Give me your tired or poor, are also part of the american Eaters
certainly are giving you're tired in your poor who can stand on their own two feet and who will not become a public charge that that plan
was put on the statue of liberty at almost
in time as the first public charge law was passed very interesting time,
interesting, very what a historical fun fact- and I did not know that that was the end of that palm. Did you
most people don't know about the statue of liberty beside. I may ask what the fuck the fiend
we have taken canker. Jelly is one of the dumber man in all of politics
a bit his. Obviously his views are atrocious and offensive, but
It also just sign of what a fuckin knucklehead he is it. He would
stir in the mirror, give that answer and then think it was a good idea that would be believable.
Now laughable. Yet I think it it's important to understand here in context of the who
conversation with the having on Trump and the economy. Is potential windows is on the economy, with the messages that can test against him. This is
a rule that will that could hurt to twenty six million legal immigrants in in the United States. People who are here legally and the attempt is to try to get them to leave or to try to deter people from coming to this cut immigrants, who are people of color who are poor from coming to this country in the first place, and what Trump wants from this rule with Miller wants from this rule, is for people to think ok, they're, protecting working class and poor white people, and they are punishing working class and poor immigrants who don't belong here right. This is the message that they want to get out what they don't want. People to know his their policies are hurting working class and poor white people as well. There cutting Medicaid for everybody there cutting food stamps for everybody, they're fucking over everybody, with their tax cut that is going to the wealthy people.
And no one else with their trade war. That's hurting farmers in the MID West, with all of the other bullshit they're doing. Donald Trump is enriching himself and his family and his fucking over everyone else in this country, but what they want you to think what their messages is, that they are
wants you to believe that their fucking over emigrants- and I think that an important point to me yet and just a couple of
So this truly unaware
again inoffensive policy proposal from the Republicans
drop? One? Is that it
Not not. Gonna save us me to cost money, because people are now you're, not gonna, get to see a doctor
when their sexual minorities, Europe's people are
going to have access to food and other welfare services.
Oh they're gonna get sick faster and it's gonna cost of public more money. It is,
Short sighted industry.
It is? It is the proof of the pudding to your point that
is not about building walls, protecting us from fake written
fever dreams of s, thirteen or anything else it is about making America White again. This is about getting people.
Color to not come here and the people of color for the immigrants of color who are here to leave it that
What this is? It is saying the quiet,
it out loud people can have all kinds of positions on immigration in this country, but that what
this is about. It is
white nationals, and that is exactly what this is and the third point out
is. It is bucking disgusting to do this days after a white,
nationalist inspired by the rhetoric of the president and the Republican Party. When
Walmart now pass out in shot people because they weren't white.
It is a specific policy delivered in the White House Briefing Room that Sir
so the fears of
Sir premises and tries to paint this inaccurate
who immigrants are and what they bring. To. This country- and it is disgusting- and he should be called out on that
and you know before the
Conservative, intellectual zamboni machine comes and tries to say all this is about saving money, and this is about is about saving fucking money, because if the trumpet
Bridgewater Save money they wouldn't have spent bill
means of dollars to bail out foreign farms because of their trade war, that's hurting farmers in the United States.
They wouldn't spent trillion dollars on attacks cut that went to mostly
the people they wouldn't have spent a trillion dollars in a task that also encourage companies to outsource jobs from this country. They spent all kinds of money on things that help rich people and don't help most people in this country at all
So it's not about fucking. Saving money either are about saving money. It's not about illegal immigration is about making sure that this country is wider. That is,
that's the reason we should have some sort of public charge rule for corporations in billionaires.
Right, where, if you do, if you must depend on some sort of government subsidy or if you declare Bankrupt,
one of your businesses yonder forfeit. Your text got Donald Trump is the biggest fucking public charge in this country,
when we come back, we will have my inner
with Alexandria, Abkhazia, Hortense Party, America's brought by square space,
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The catch up with us in studio today, Congresswoman Alexandria, Abkhazia, Cortez Congress.
Welcome. Welcome back to the buyer. I thank you for having me. So this is the first time we ve had you on. Since you took office,
I remember in the
first year of the Obama White House there,
a few times are we looked at each other and said, while
Washington is even worse-
Then we said it was on the campaign. Have you had moments like that? Yes,
I have had moments like that. In other ways, though it has,
better again what I expected where's even worse and worse, even better work
worse is that I see how laws are made em, I am shocked. You know
sometimes I feel as though, if people
we saw what our legislative process was like
would be a national scandal. Sometimes, but it's been
or in that I actually. I think I was
more cynical about the capacity for change
and now. I actually surprisingly believe that its even more possible than I had thought going and not that I thought it was impossible,
going and bites as seeing how a lot of these dynamics work. I feel more hopeful
More than ever about the possibility of grassroots politics will
What has made you more hopeful than you thought? You'd be well.
Think so many of our decisions are based on public sentiment.
And I believe that, if we can,
the unlock the ability to transform and change and focus on moving public sentiment
then we can really open up our possibilities of of what were capable in DC and am granted. I think that
I and our team and and some other members are in a unique capacity. We haven't had this strange fusion of politics and pop culture in this way, since I think frankly, the sixteenth year.
But it's an enormous opportunity that we have, and I think we should use it through or an issue like immigration, where Democrats couldn't pass on their own
clean humanitarian funding, belled included protections for migrants and children like where do we go from here? Do we,
is there no choice on immigration, but to wait until
when he twenty like what progress we think we can make between our well. I do think that out of all of the issues, immigration is is probably the most difficult within them
crowded party. I think that it is the single most challenging issue within the party, because we have,
members from all over the country. We have members that one really tough districts and
migration is be one issue that really
Hutches a big nerve,
and still it's a challenge. It's a really big challenge in its one that, for me,
coming from a district that fifty percent emigrant. I come from one of the most diverse districts. Arguably the most diverse
strict in the country in terms of language is spoken overtime,
what languages is spoken in my community and it's it's tough too
Conseil, that it really does get very difficult work,
What lessons did you learn from the last? Serve immigration,
ending battle for next time.
Well, I learned I learned rule
the fault lines are and a lot of these decisions. You know we talk about how legislation
is made its made
A lot of times goes a long process where people are kind of writing it.
And toiling over it, but really the chips fall within forty eight hours
Everyone finds out whether working to vote on a bill. Forty eight hours before that vote happens, and so a lot of times. There's this massive scramble looking for things because allow
people who see these bills initially are only those folks where the bill has
move through that committee, where they ve been able to really come through it. I'm not everyone may beyond that relevant committee, where there may have been hearing on it or not, and so
So one of the things that I've learned is where those fault lines are. I have also learned where some of our strong
points are as a party and we're so of our weak points or as a party I think internal
medication is a weak point within the party
even between besides
and the house. You know that
immigration bill. I think Schumann
thought some things were happening. Pelosi thought something
else might have been happening and its members
in the Caucasus. Didn't know what other
members of the Caucasus were trying to do, and so I created this this huge tension out of a lack of communication. I think it does seem like so much of the immigration debate is driven by fear, politicians,
the fear of easy, there's fear among voters. I mean to me it seems like
even hopefully long after Donald Trump has gone. This is going to be a dominant political issue, not just in America, but around the world are going to have
more asylum seekers, more refugees and climate refugees. How do we start changing the politics around this issue so that
in districts that aren't like yours within aren't on the border. It's not driven by fear. Well,
this is really tough because bears the short term political work, but a lot of people
are engaged in which is winning elections, and then,
the long term political work which is transforming the ethos of the country,
and really debating our long term values and.
Immigration. As you said, this is going to be a global issue. Climate change alone is going to drive hundreds of thousands of people
to be changing and migrating across the world, and people say that and special the right. They think it's a joke, but
a lot of our wars and a lot of our conflict is going to be over. Droughts is going to be over. Lack of resources is going to be over food shortages in many parts of the country, people are
be forced to migrate. They are already migrating because places where they once lived are no longer livable and, and frankly,
migration is a is with
our human nature. Ever since the dawn of humanity, humans have migrated, it is a natural it is. It
as natural as eating and breathing, and we're going to have to figure out how to show people that its
It's actually really not a big deal. We see if anything, its positive, where my
grants go regardless of their background, regardless of how poor or
which they are where migrants go. Prosperity follows Andy,
It is a myth that the president is peddling
because he's peddling zero, some vision of the world
and but it really deepens too.
Having national conversations about race and their very uncomfortable- and I think that a
huge part of this moment. Right now is because we ve been kicking. This can down the road and has been getting worse and worse.
Worse and there's a huge fear around
a changing America, and when we can avoid that conversation
and we want to in the short term, to win an election year. But if we keep not talking about it,
only going to get worse will this. As you know, I keep having this thought about the timing
when the election, where to me, there's this central tension where you know Donald Trump wants to make this election about race and immigration and white identity politics, and I think that's a fight. The Democrats,
have to join that we can avoid at the same time. You know we just did a a Poulan Wisconsin
and it was a message in pole and the messages that moved voters furthest away from tromp were economic in nature. It was about his Medicare cuts. His tax cuts, his trade war with China,
How do we? How do we sort of reconcile the need to you no battle, Donald Trump on
on issues of race, but also get an economic met,
its through that we know well sort of galvanise a majority of people. Why? I think one of them
So we need to do is really dismantle. This idea that it's either raised issues or class issues. We need to learn how to talk about this intersection. Italy and it's gonna, take a lot of white people.
We need white people right now to do the work. We need why people to organise themselves in and to do that
Kind of working on in my campaign there was this real
phenomenal local organization.
There also national in nature. They were once known as
they still known as a surge stand. Operational justice in our community, they ve kind of spin off into their own local,
moody organization, but it's it's white people talking to other
white people about race and that, I think, is
a lot of what we're going to need. In addition,
a whole lot of other work because right,
so is economic, and we need to
a lot of the long term, work that we have to do on a lot of different issues: educational and there's a reason that Donald Trump is using racism as a cultural, because it's how he gets away with his corrupt
right now he gets so that's how he steals the bag. You know it is. It is with racism,
well, it's a point to wear racism doesn't only hurt, people of color hurts
People's well being goes down trumps bases and making only better right right from was half and he's going to use racism and he's going to try to the rest,
he's trying to centre issues of race, of immigration, etc, is to sink. The economic agenda. Row is trying to eclipse
and the only reason that that has power is because we refuse to talk about.
And so rich
this going to be an issue and the key is
we're going to allow him to define that conversation or of working to assert ourselves into that space and defined that conversation. You gave a speech that way.
Viral last week, where you called on young people who find themselves being radical.
Eyes by white supremacy to quote: come back because there's a man
there waiting for you and others a teacher waiting for you. We will love you back. You are not too far gone. It struck me as a message that conveyed something that you don't hear much in our political conversation, witches grace what what made you wanna say that. Well,
a lot of it does have to deal with the fact that I have listened to those moms. I was
maybe a day or two before I was actually at the mall.
In Koreans, make might now
our daughter, we are getting a christening dress for her and I was
Disney Store and eight one of the employees at the store came to me and said I M so thankful that you representing Us- and she said my son has been- is- is kind of falling into this funnel and he it's real.
Hard to feel like I'm losing him, and I hear this all the time about families that are being torn apart by this radicalization and it's her
So many people and this political pull
position it's it's not just within our politics. It's personal people's me
marriages are strained. Their friendships are strictly feel like they can't even talk to their loved ones.
And that is the power of white supremacy. That is what this cult like culture,
president is cultivating is doing to us,
and the only way that we're going to get past. This is with grace
and is on Greece on on both ends. It's not just the white supremacist and it's not just young people that are falling into this funnel.
We need to have grace with ourselves to acknowledge our past mistakes and I think in our com.
Stations about race, the immediate emotions that come up our defensiveness, you know like if I, for example, pointed out something
you may have said, miss this. That said. Well, I didn't mean that you know there's this defensiveness that comes up and I think
that we have to show that conversations about race can be safe. They can be even if you have
a mistake or even, if you have stepped into outright hatred that
the conversation can still be safe, it can be loving so
long as we are at least open,
the possibility of moving forward together this? I struggle with this all the time, because you know I am an Obama
when I worked for him for a long time. You know I have this desire to not see this constant polarisation in political warfare. Trump becomes president and there's this debate about. You know our trump voters, racist and clear
you see the rallies, you see some of the stuff online in theirs races and there and then,
wonder. Like I dont know
early wanna vilify people who vote for Trump, but at the same time you also need to call racism out, and I dont know how
even beyond Trump, I dont know how we ever sort of peace, this back together or where are the spaces for these conversations,
it's not twitter, but now it certainly not. What first of all, I think the biggest mistake that we have and it's a trap that gets set by them.
Whether intentionally or unintentionally is just a frame of asking is blank racist
That is something that we have to pull ourselves out of its not about
asking whether Trump voters are racist? We need to talk about Ray
says: I'm not racists, racists,
it's a very two dimensional boring conversation is something racist, yes or no, and then you D Borneo. Why about that? We need to talk about racism, its contours, its histories, where,
It manifests how it's used, because
like all winning political phenomenon.
Whether their good or bad. In your opinion, they rely,
Coalition building so
from relied on a coalition and a core part of that coalition were racists,
building. A coalition with
sorts of other people that could be susceptible to racist,
whose, if they were Blake
he and layered, and made people field,
about it, not being a racist thing, as with a lot of people support Trump that genuinely dont believe that they are racist because we do not talk,
about. Were educate people on recognising racism and because we do not do that it it.
Just allows itself to just we get caught in this debate of is something racist and then a person uses are defensiveness
and they say well, it's not racist, because I'm not racist- and I believe this thing, because its economic in nature, right to address listening to apart ass, were some of my democratic friends who are very small
I been on winning presidential campaigns said that there be,
just fear and twenty twenty that we not
someone who has taken positions that are not supported by a majority of people in states that add up to two. Seventy. Do you think there is anything valid about that fear? And what are we sort of do about that fear? Yeah? I think I tend to think that people a lot of folks
especially in DC, sometimes misunderstands the average voter. I think that people think-
voters are more ideological than they are. I think that people think that voters cast their votes based on
policy positions more than they actually do, and I think that what is actually
Orton is how we message our positions, how we not even defend
how we evangelize them, how we talk about a vision for our
future and the own
vision for our future that I think
winning is an audacious one and whether you
like it or whether you hate it. A wall is a vision, a tangible vision that is symbolic and
preventative and galvanizing, and if we do
not have an ambitious inspiring,
organizing vision. I think we risk losing.
More, and it's not about you, know
So it's all about how you message these issues that I think is more imports.
Than the actual positions that people take and that I think has
always been the historic weakness.
Of the Democratic Party, is something that we do not have institutions for Republicans
messaging lines. I mean you see, you watch Fox news any
old, Schmahl, that's either
Working party goes on CNN and says, or goes on Fox NEWS and though
the same words, the same terminology. There met
aging is completely unified and
progressive in winning,
Were the electorate,
wonder why we have this problem on our side, because a lot of these messages from Democrats are
old right, which is a problem while its ally but of appalling, is not completely off
like we know that the pulling were probably tell us what you and I believe, which has some of these economically populous messages really resonate,
some other when they say it when they say it, it doesn't ring
You know me: you ran a campaign where, whether someone agreed with you
you or not
They saw you as authentic and inspire.
And believing in what you are saying. How how do you,
What advice do you give your colleagues and friends who are running in some of these tougher swing? Districts law? I think, first of all we have to become
master storytellers. I think anyone who's in public service needs
to be a master storyteller is not just about being a legislator. We have to be
It requires so many different skills. We have to be legislators, we have to be policymakers, but
Is this idea that, if you're a good enough legislator, you should just win
the election, because you're good at your job, but that is clearly
not how politics works, we oughta be master storytellers, and so my personal advice in terms of-
storytelling is too.
While our stories and to make arguments with your five senses and not five, facts, use facts as supporting evidence, but you need to communicate and tell the stories in terms of
You know the smells that other people are smelling, the the stress the.
How your heart is beating you. We need to show that we are having the same human experience and
too often it doesn't come again
that way, because, frankly, alot of people aren't in diesel on policymakers
are in having the same human experience as a lot of people in the country, and that is what trumpets tapped into the visceral and
I think our politics is our best when are heading
hard line when the visceral also matches with with b the academic,
and and when our facts are
not separated or not, that we have this hierarchy but that they are put together because,
because emotions are also information well and if we, I think, are
the amount of resentment that happen
in twenty. Sixteen that I think
led to a democratic loss was the fact that we were telling implicitly I feel like we had been tell
people that what they are seeing is not what is happening and
created a lot of resentment and p.
Wanted to punish those who were doing that, and I think that was an outlet for them. How much you think,
our own history plays a role. I see you do this elaborate lot, which I really effective is talk about. F
or you know, sort of line up progressive beliefs with progressive traditions in a mess
can traditions- you know- and I think Obama Balmy used to do this- allowed and say that you know patriotism, isn't sort of air
brushed history and when the flag, pen, patriotism, is the civil rights movement that
the core of what this country has been. Do you think that everyone
do that well enough to a more. I think we need to do it more, and it's not just about recounting the.
Story row it's about saying this is who we are and we need to our best.
Best, but this is also not even sure said our best, but
it is who we are now too, but we
have to tell our
story, because America has always been a story of people who want of some folks who want to claim
to their own small vestiges of power and prevent us from progressing and those who have been able to galvanise, and
Yes, together and move us forward, and it's always a stutter step between those
two things in in that move towards progress.
And we need to tell our story, because a huge part of hope is not just a hope, is an optimism and damn it's not it's not
this naive belief that things will get better
hope is saying this is where we ve been. We have already done this. We can do this, there's a strategy,
for doing it. But we need to take a leap and we need it will only happen if we are courageous
will only happen if we take a risk and there's this
idea that we can win without taking any risks, and that is not it's just not how the
I note what is one of those in its or scares me about this coming.
Action is, you know
in a way we were able to run by saying you know. The greatest risk you can take is doing the same thing over and over again and because
George W Bush wasn't gonna be president again there wasn't it
fear and the electorate and to be more willing to take a risk on someone completely new. I feel like heading into twenty twenty, the emotion that sort of pervades everything, especially my dumber catches. This fear that we're going to lose to trumpet and it's making a lot of democrats more cautious than they would be, and I sort of worry that that caution could lead to a bad. I completely agree, I mean just from here.
Got and its unfortunate, because this is how authoritarian typically come into our, but coming from your guy
which so many voters vote on their got more than people want to admit, especially in Washington. But if you have two options in front of you
and one is self assured, has a direction saying this: is
where I want to go. I know some of you may disagree with me, but I believe that this is my
notice of the country. This is our son,
wish, and this is how we are going to move forward verses. Another person- that's like, I think
This may be what it is, but not quite that, but this that, in the other you have a self
your leader and you have a timid one, people are going to go to where they feel a sense of certainty were just.
Policy questions aside and so,
If you have someone, that's constantly stutter, stepping and back, you know backtrack
seeing that does not inspire confidence in an electorate, especially
in a time as tumultuous as this
One ends, I think we're folks,
We need to realise that this time is not just carry because Donald Trump is president. This time is scary. This time has been scary, because people dont know if there can be will pay there.
And at the end of the month, people dont know if, when you wake up, if you
go to your house, if, God forbid, you get hit by a car or slip off of a curb if your life is going to be over because your health costs are going to be out of control- and that is the uncertainty that
are actually feeling and tromp is, is a huge destabilizing factor on top of all of that. But at the end of the day,.
A lot of people are feeling an insane amount of economic insecurity as well and its concentrated in the people that trumpets hurting most true
and where it on top of all. This, of course, is the climate crisis. You know, so you propose the green new deal. This is something that requires a mass mobilization like we haven't seen since world war. Two.
It requires it urgently, and it requires that at a time when our political system is in crisis because one of our party's radicalized,
where do we begin to make real progress on this? When you know our best hope? As Democrats
president, fifty one senators, no Philip
stern and then you still dealing with like Joe Manner
huge challenge, especially with mention as chairman of energy.
My life on it. This is
I think a huge amount of public sentiment comes in and when we first,
introduced the resolution, one of the biggest critiques that we get on the left, is that it's too much it's too sweeping? But
energy policy is not just about putting solar panels on everyone's roof.
tie. Your system is
sent devised to destroying our planet and the only home that we live on and
so long as fossil fuel
those are profitable
and so long as law,
wages are profitable people are going to be economically marginalized and feel like a coal mine is their only hope and and
so the reason it has to be so sweeping is because we need to give our
entire economy, I think a golden gate of retreat and
carbon zation and so on. So that's why we have to know
That's why we have to make
global energy job, just as good of equality as a coal job
because cold jobs or unionized, you
and a lot of solar panel jobs are like these ad hoc, weird, our Lee or, like you have horrible.
How does traffic health insurance plans and that's a lot of the reason why people don't want to switch over to, and so we need to address a lot of those underlying economic issues and, and frankly, it's going
The green new deal, I think it is in many
parts is also in an economic stimulus package. Four main street. You know we had. We had
no problem. Blinking or
mapping our fingers and passing
seeing the stimulus package which created a large amount of political resentment as well, because we build a Wall Street, ended very little four main street
You know this, I think, is the answer to that is that I think agreed on
it will say. Oh this is so
you don't care when these expenses go to bailing out big banks, but for some reason the idea of building out
a generation seems unconscionable. Do you think that the next president should prioritize a green new deal even over?
the care for all like knowing that a president has, I don't know
major legislative initiatives before them in terms.
Well, I think, scientifically. We have no choice but to put climate front and centre. So in terms of that aspect, we have to do
but I do think that in making these massive investments like, if we're gonna make a million dot, Org
millions of jobs. I want those millions of
opts to have health insurance, high quality and that's why I don't think it's necessarily either or is gonna say we're gonna make this investment, and these are the requirements that this investment is funding. You
Republicans have already tried to make you the face of the Democratic Party heading its twenty twenty,
It's a curious decision to me, I mean I will tell you
in our Wisconsin pull your net
ever ability is higher than most of our presidential.
Quitting job hadn't wit woody
think about this. How do you you know? Do you feel like there's that are added responsibility? Because you have been made this
for star on the right. I mean, I think, there's there
certainly a responsibility- because there is a certain power
in that, and so, if they're gonna make me the focus, then I get determine as a proxy. What
focus on, and so, if they're gonna spend all
their time trying to trash the green new deal. I think that's great, because the green new deal is enormously popular or like yesterday, in this like little tiff with bar stools for its. If we want to get into a fight and you're going to be the Anti Union side, I will take that,
the day of the week, please
go on the record bashing unions, please go on the record saying we shouldn't have health insurance, go on the record, saying that
country should only be for white people
I will gladly take up that mantle and
for them to be on the defence, because people say oh like how
whisky is this: if a presidential candidate
wins, the primary on Medicare fraud. Are they gonna be too far left these other smoke? Are literal white, supremacist and they're not worried about that road, though I mean come on like this, is an outrageous point to make and we
have to be as galvanizing as possible is.
For the reasons you
dinner that yesterday, because it so hard to get
of rich of the Labour movement unions. Like I notice that you, Sir pick your battles on Twitter,
it seems to me very strategically thinking that there are some
issues that just never be
through in a normal political conversation, and if you were saying earlier, if you can
a the politics with
culture and was interesting. You can serve get more people to pay attention yet, and I mean that is something that I enjoy doing here and because at my core I come from the background of community organizing and in
my primary election. I wine, because I expanded deal.
Do it sixty eight percent of last off your mid term primary. I talk to people dont boat, that's my jail,
I thought the young people I talk to people of color, I talked to working class people. That say why should I can see
to be governed by the less.
Of two evils by this system does not work for me and I think one, the biggest misconceptions that we have in politics is that people who don't vote are apathetic and
anything. Sometimes I find them to be the most passionate about politics and there,
very heart, broken and dejected. How do you? How do you overcome that
cynicism about the system that I think I'd be?
I understand it amounts under these alot of his own voters. To and Democrats eight
should be our voters, their younger, their preparation,
we people of color their poorer, and then
you know some of the solution is like well, we can get thereby just sort of proposing more ambitious policies, but it seems
like there's something deeper going on the only way you are going to get those voters is by actually telling the truth and to expectations with
I'm going to go fight for you, but by the way, what are the? What are the warriors I had when Democrats win, the house is going to be a lot of expectation from people who don't pay super close attention to politics. That
Democrats when the house now everything's gonna be gray and willing
control one has of Congress? Are we can't promise that much presenting to create more disappoint me? While I dont when I go back home, it's not about winning it's about
fighting and every time I come home people say thank you for trying. Thank you for free
waiting for us. That's a number one thing that I hear when I go back home
and it's because they know it's not. I come from a district that is like d plus twenty
four or something like that people
My committee vote for Democrats, no matter what, but they don't like Democrats, you know.
It's not. They don't love the party and I think that's the mistake that people that we have we take. We take young people for granted. We take me of color for granted. We take working class people
granted and we just say, oh you're, going to vote for us, no matter what, because, where the lesser of two evils so, like you should there's this entitlement, that's like it's your fault, you don't vote. If you,
fault that you'd humble and if you only voted, we would pass all of these things. For you, that's bullshit
bullshit and that's why I unseated a twenty year income ban. That was the fourth most powerful person, the party and the argument that I made. We will you know some people are saying: oh well,
he's going to be the next speaker
do we really want to give up that power to our district, and I said how much of that power has been used.
To improve our lives here, how much of it- and I think that
People were saying, you know what we should have a change. You and I are don't always understand because, like I think, politicians and people living in Washington for a long time, I believe that people who
our disengage from politics like, oh, if they believe that everyone pays as closely tension politics as we all do
and so, if they dont automatically know that Donald Trump is the worst person on earth. I made on automatically know that voting for a Democrat is the best thing to do than its their problem
and I think we all realise that people are busy and living their lives and there's a certain obligation that comes with citizenship. It is also an obligation on behalf of our leaders.
Not only that but
in that message that you're talking about words like oh well, you should know that if you dont vow Trump aware right what you're saying on what one, what people say with that argument says is you should ve
for us for your survival wrote.
You don't tell white folks in them
where's that it's like
We tell communities of color the others.
I will kill you and we want right,
so then inspire message to go to the polls, and so why is it a surprise that young people don't vote that thou working
ass communities, don't vote. Why is it a surprise that the
the union vote did not turn out in twenty. Sixteen,
because none of these messages were galvanizing, and you know I
that we could have permanent
majorities if we told the truth and fought for people and actually took a risk
the reason people appreciate,
if they disagree with me. I hear this a lot from evil
publicans, and I talk to that saying. I may not agree with you but respect you is being
they know that it's not a show like
no, that I am legit.
Lee risking things to make people's lives better, and I think that that's what a public servant has to do, and I think that's what all public servants have to do. Regardless of your party you, it is a service. We have to risk and sacrifice think real things of ourselves not per,
ten things and- and I think that that's dad is what is winning and I think in terms of that ethos, people vote for ethos,
as well, people provision an ethos and how
Oh they're communities who are galvanizing in a moment. I think those,
Huge resume libraries hinge was six with success, one twenty sixteen there's no one had ever heard of Medicare for all and to wish
Just like those were. I think we are
estimate how much these policies were put into the map and how they become may
stream in such a short period of time when it wasn't just
policies to I was remember. They had met to burn, is announced in speech and twenty. Sixteen in the very first line of the speeches, just I believe we need a political and economic revolution
oh, you know his world. You see, I saw you talking when you spoke to David Redneck, about trying to
understand different candidates, worldviews and how important it is
What do you believe is the world view that succeeds in twenty twenty, while I think,
the world view in, and this is also very much from Obama's practice and
I Ganz give to you- have to tell the story
me us now and that's
story of me us and now should
coincide in the world view is
the diagnosis after telling those three stories
and so I think the world view right now and I think a lot of candidates have kind of guy
in this, but I dont know if they're getting it just because it pulls well or if because or because they ve
Billy internalized the Rio,
the of America today, and it's that our system,
and our politics are structure- is
designed to help the powerful and
We do need to have these huge changes. We do need
political and economic revolution, but why
we are at a crossroads right now and the crew
road and have. I think we have to tell the story of the crossroads. Where
our nation is coming apart and it
continue to come apart or we can you
this moment as an opportunity to transform. But there
is no going back,
to where we were- and I think that is the bitter pill that is very
hard for a lot of people to swallow, but the America,
that we had even
Obama is gone. That is the new
sure of time, you know.
America, that we had with Obama the America
George Bush was forever gone wrong and we
have to decide how we're gonna transform. But there is
staying the same anymore and in taking that step forward, requires a certain level of courage and ambition. But that's always been the way right and as I
Think as humanity evolves, we
can always of for the better, and I think we're almost scared of.
Living in a more advanced world, because I think that in it we have to we
The way we advances of society, a more advanced society is one where everyone can go to the doctor.
More advanced society is one where every person has the opportunity to educate themselves. As far
as they see fit for their own lives, that
You know it sounds like science fiction to a lot of people, but science fiction is written for it. The societies we're gonna live in decades from now and
these policies are the ones that are policies of an advanced society. So we're gonna have to do so,
if we're going to be a regressive society because were used to it because were used
barbarism and were used to three hundred dollar insulin, and we think that now
having three hundred dollar insulin is quorum.
On realistic or
can actually realized. That reality is what we create and that we have all of the money to do all of these things. We just have to decide that the,
is going to be our value as a country congresswoman? Thank you. So much for joining us in his great
Thank you for having me begs to air sea for joining us and will
the Greek on Saturday night of the you
reconciling idea- and I will be there so by the way that will be our part on Monday and then did, and I will be back on Thursday, I guess by everyone
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