General Flynn gets fired, the NYT's report on Trump-Russia contacts, and the White House's awful week. Then, the Atlantic's Julia Ioffe joins Jon and Dan to talk Russia, and MoveOn.org's Ben Wikler announces the launch of #ResistanceRecess.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to plot save America. I'm John FAT Room, Andean, Pfeiffer. On today's pod we have the Atlantic's Julia Taffy we'll take it
but the latest Russia revelations and then Benwick,
therefore move on dot. Org will talk about how pod save America listeners can cause some trouble. You're
those persons Town Hall meeting next week. I think that's our people could not
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I was in advocating any kind of anarchy. Again. Are you sure,
Why are you wearing a black right? Now? We only have the most peaceful protesters here. Pod save America,
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download the free square cash out, for I owe us or Android today, ok, so
let us begin with
Flynn gauzy. Can we
I don't see why not ok, good its full in Gaza, so Lou,
in a general Michael Flynn broke some
records this week,
first senior ministration official fired from
administrations to President's of different parties for her fine?
from the defence intelligence Agency under Barack Obama
was fired his trumps national security adviser on Tuesday second record. He broke
he is the shortest serving senior administration official in history. So I guess he's they get back on form. That's good.
I made that obeyed Highupness Wikipedia page yeah. So what was it?
for it was not. He was not fired for saying that Islam is a cancer, that fear of Muslims is rational or treating a bunch of conspiracy theories, even though he did all those things he was fired because of
multiple calls he made to the russian ambassador on December. Twenty knife, which was also the day that Obama announced new sanctions on Russia,
in retaliation for Russia interfering in our election with the goal of helping Donald Trump, which
a coincidence. I assume total coincidence, like what are the odds? What are the odds? Indeed, while at the time our boys,
and spices, and vice president, my pants told the nation that funds multiple calls with the russian ambassador on the same day word about the sanctions at all. They were.
In exchange of Christmas greetings. That's what you
with the russian ambassador COM a couple times. You wish a merry Christmas for days after Christmas and two weeks before the Russian Orthodox Christmas, and that's just that's what you talk about. So
We may we now know this is not true at all the washing
was this. We confirmed that Flynn strongly implied to the russian ambassador that the Trump administration would relax the Obama sanctions.
Doing so would be a violation of the Logan ACT which says that
private citizens are not supposed to make foreign policy on their own.
The police had lost? It's a good luck! No one's ever been prosecuted under it. It's pretty it's a pretty hard difficult
to do it's pretty difficult thing to prove
this one seems pretty cutting dry. But who knows
The post also reported that Flynn had left
depends also said so.
Here's where the whole thing gets even shady here.
We also know now than in late January.
Attorney General Sally Yeats since also been fired by Trump told
Why has cancelled Don Mcgann that
Flynn was lying about the calls, the waiter
did nothing with this information and only fired Flynn after the post story broke?
so few questions here
Flynn decide on his own to tell the russian ambassador, the trump would ease the sanctions was.
Ok with him doing that. What do we think in awe
there's so much to unpack here. While we don't actually know why he was fired because Right Kelly
by Sir Michael Flan endowed
drop of all, given different versions of why he was fired.
Kelly, I'm Conway our
after saying when had as full confidence said it
Flynn submitted his resignation because he did bear such as you want to be a distraction,
Sean's Reiser read Red a
Such video style set of remarks explaining that
The reason he was fired was a lack of trust and they
in his pseudo press conference will be Netanyahu. Yesterday said that,
and was a great guy was treated very unfairly by the news media. Never have
answer a question about why he fired him because he only called on
eight media subsidiaries like Town Hall calmer, whatever absurdly they called on
life is so we don't really know, but it's
It unlikely to me
like I don't know whether tromp told him to do this, but it seems we're that Flynn would not tell tromp that he had done it afterwards
right like what he's he's is I kept us from South
by just behold, alright in brutal, hardly lacking on his car with russian ambassador seems weird. That seems
very bizarre. It seems like someone would have told Flynn that that was a good idea. Some one would have to like. If Europe
incoming national security adviser. You probably don't want to float with
the Russians that you may that the President may is the sanctions on them. If you have no idea whether that's true or if you haven't been authorized to do that the act so that scene and then, if
the attorney general said, oh by the way we we have this suspicion. That Flynn was not the did talk about sanctions on the phone and she says that in January and she tells
Don began the White House counsel and on again apparently telephone the White House. Why
in Trump loose
in his national security adviser, then begin.
Interest to be very precise on that site.
Yeats, communicated that he was not forthcoming, not just with the public but with the FBI,
the FBI interviewed Flint
so, which is obstruction of Justice
and how a lot of people while lot people on the planet
won't go down so
we had said the Russians could blackmail Flynn
he was vulnerable backing for this reason, and they,
damn around four weeks
We continue to get all the nations greatest cigarettes, or at least the ones they intoxicated not hide from the trunk administration.
There are so many
People who have some blame here. I think Don began as a great place to start the widest council
like how do you
you're leaving every one of the White House vulnerable to all kinds of legal requirements.
Shoes by not acting when the accurate tells you such a thing. I mean also like trump
and no one in the administration
survive, like five minutes of straight questioning on this topic because
was out there in his press conference, just saying flints bins,
treated so unfairly he's a good man. This is all the fake media. This is fake news. It's like well
The case then why'd you fire. The guy do yet
Why, if he's been treated so unfairly by the media- and this is fake news than wisely still working in your White House in law
it transpires or to say the opposite, twenty four hours earlier, I mean
just like it forget it.
Like the substance of the whole issue, like you'd, treating
like assholes thinking that we're not going to figure out like what
you're, your explanation is so off right. Now, it's just
it is crazy by the way as our according this trump is holding a Prescott.
Prince right now. So who knows? What's gonna happen by the time here this now? How can we all knew answer
maybe maybe Lincoln Beef, maybe flints back. My second point is the new labour secretary
like Admiral Robert Howard, who is a former Navy seal, interesting
trusting choice for replacement, because he's like a career, professional and not seemingly crazy yeah
it is probably also travel fitting and my guess. I've met him before he's very nice guy
We denounce served as country Navy, seal
seems like he's like not very political, which is a good thing.
The question is: will he quitted his will
clean out the National Security Council like work,
Haiti Macfarlane still be the deputy, who is basically just a Fox news contributor,
I assume there there's. The fox is still keeping Katy Frolic seat warm on the five and you can be back any moment she wants. You think if I got that the revolving door between Fox and ministries and but for the revolving door of twenty seventeen exactly
well in case general horrid needs to feel any jobs, the National Security Council. Perhaps he should post and
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Flynn and then, on Tuesday night, there's a story in the New York Times Times,
words that members of trumps campaign had repeated contacts with sea
russian intelligence officials, during
Twenty sixteen campaign. We know this because
american intelligence monitoring. Russian intelligence leaked the information to the times
the same official said: there is no evidence of the trunk people and their russian intelligence. Pals talked about russian interference in the
action or talked about Trump, you know and if
or ass, all the right wing, media or I'll saying all this isn't a big deal. The real problem is the weak itself. This is why we say
from pisangs? Well, he wants to go out
leakers, but I don't know, don't don't
don't you think it's a little unusual for the term campaign to be in contact with a foreign adversary that was watching a cyber attack against our country in order to help elect their candidate. I don't know, eat you.
John three presidential campaigns. How many times in those campaigns did you find yourself on the phone with
groovy intelligence service of one of our foreign adversaries all the time
Colleagues who did who do not happen to like you, just calling hunters and Cuyahoga County, and you end up in Moscow. Rightly talk of the emphasis you think you're calling NBC integrate the efforts, be these things happen these things out, usually usually it's like you know. I want speech suggestions. I want to see if anyone has any edits, and so I you know, I call up iranian intelligence. That's right. I mean here's the thing,
is. It is not unusual for
foreign policy people in a campaign to reach
arts in different countries. It is
much more unusual for it to be foreign,
it is even more unusual for it to be a foreign adversary adversary that you know has engaged.
In cyber attacks?
since the country we knew.
MIKE Flynn, and
Donald Trump survive that it is the second. They got an intelligence briefing, the first intelligence briefing in August. They knew
that the Russians were behind the heck of the Dnc and
and other attacks. They knew this and they were.
They had repeated contacts with this government so like
I don't know, I don't know they were talking about like if they do
coordinated, Lena there's, no evidence that they were coordinating. The
tax themselves and they knew about the attacks and they were talking to the Russians about the attacks. But, like I don't know
Don't pretty weird to me: no yeah pretty words like what what what
talking about is a very good question, and
let's not forget one of the officials mentioned on these reports- is long time. Trump adviser, Roger Stone, a man
who literally has attached to have Richard Nixon on his back, is not a joke: Google, it
but in growth, but it is true,
about the pedestrian emails before the emails came out, he tweeted about them. He talked about the Wikileaks, so he said and in it
about the Wikileaks. So he said in annex XVII, Wednesday, this Wednesday Hillary Clinton is done and then, on that day, around
a day. The pedestrian males came up so two options. There
He knew about this from his contacts with russian intelligence or he psychic,
huge sums in Africa.
Yeah I mean look, I
and everyone's or to hang in there had on well the time stories, not a big deal, because they said, there's no evidence.
Of coordination. Will you have laid the so there's no evidence yet? That's it
so far and like
I don't know even if there's no hard evidence they colluded if they knew about it. That still seems pretty bad news
the seams worthy of further exploration and investigation. Yes, yes, perhaps there,
cities to the investigation. I mean
We need to know
look, why have the term camp and aunt Trump
campaign and the White House have referred
to acknowledge or deny
these contacts, they won't say either way. So if they were
big deal if the contacts we just cause, you know to say, hey, what's goin on Let's work today,
there. If I win
what are they just say that there has it goes.
Because they know that some things out there,
I mean why why else would not? Otherwise why? When just admit it was a more Christmas, greetings gets
all the others. There is preparing for Christmas greetings in the late. Far away
official did talk about this very former trunk campaign manager, Pollyanna Fort friend,
good friend of, do said. How
essentially how mice Mosen HO brush intelligence. Folks, don't wear bid them just now that we're badges he's so
Paul therefore resigned as drums campaign manager after we find out that he secretly received thirteen million dollars from a prudent puppet and Ukraine that that was the member, that the resignation a guy, and he said
I have never knowingly spoken to russian intelligence officials. It's now these people were badges. That say I'm a russian intelligence officer. I think that we
we need to sites. I won T shirts from Kragan media that there little badges that's a merchant intelligence officer that is
that's a good match idea. I think I just came up with them so
that's pollyanna for also remember Trump was asked
at eight January eleven press conference, whether there were any contacts at all between his campaigner, Russia, during the campaign he said no so yeah,
everyone was lined Trump again in his campaign or trumpet
to us. Those are the only two options either way
doesn't seem very great yeah. That's it
I burst or above all, and I want you to get sat on the spot. Casper, I think Trot might be a liar theirs.
To be a pattern
be a pattern. He lies about the easy stuff, so I dont think you lie about the easy stuff and then and tell the truth about the hard stuff that doesn't seem. That doesn't usually seem. How goes so, let's
responses to this
these allegations first
Sir, the White House so
If I had quite a week at the White House could couple weeks they had,
when will you say worse, weak ever allowed, say worse, we got a worse. We can Washington for share,
easy with their abounds? They get a nasty fix, column, easy weak for Chris Eliza, so MIKE.
In Russia connections and then trumps pick for Secretary of Labour Andrew puzzler goes down. He was forced to withdraw his nomination due to guess they do to allegations of domestic abuse, but really those allegations have been the whole time it was
because there is in
for a tape of his Ex wife,
skies on over.
Because she was afraid of him.
Retaliating against her
describing these allegations ends. I think, when members of Congress that they decided well, if there's a tape, then Rio, we can't do it so sad that
how to get that far, and there wasn't just the the allegations that were taken credibly themselves and we had to have a tape involved, but I live,
and he would also heels I'd like a number of things that would sink any other cabinet nominee. There was an tax issues. There is higher in undocumented immigrants as a housekeeper, there's all kinds of things so distant generally, an asshole
generally Nassau free- I couldn't have it- Couldn'T- have happened to at least qualified candidates to run the Department of Labour so good for him. So they have this bad weak
and all these things go wrong. In the White House I mean we
been in the White House during these crises, not not now we'd like that, not only like this so badly, but no more
the time when you're in the White House, you do think the press is making a big deal
the crisis of the day than they should
You know we ve had our like Obama's twenty Katrina. Is the oil spill?
you know all that other stuff. So
What do you do in these situations? What's what's the best way to act? Well, that's a good question
when I was writing down on our went off outlined that we prepare the agrarian studiously asked I without are versions of like oil spill Ababa Snowden Button, the
are all as big as a pain in the ass as they were drops in the bucket they his like multiple criminal investigations going on nominees dropping out. Everyone
hate each other. No one can leave, because our further, not gonna, get invited to the meeting the press
that's making foreign policy on the fly. The twitter account. I mean, like you. Shit is off the rails,
no one is when it is, I think
they said you can draw any parallel between our normal government and this clusterfuck is the
is feeding frenzies are all consuming. You can't get your message out in any other way. You can't change the subject and you have no control, especially if it is something this
happening within the FBI or an international investigation and will get to the point.
Encouraging their republican congressional investigatory committee
community shortly, but is you like
they thought there day was dine with
Flynn residing like that. You know: that's not ideal, you don't want that, but at least its overwrite, like we ve, put this behind them. They can move on and then
before, I was later the the other story about the russian contacts drop in that complete
recluse, surprise about it, because
our friend on my was ass,
by John Carl in a press briefing few hours before the story dropped about whether he could
still say there have been no contacts and it was like. I can still say that no contacts, and then he finds
a few hours later via the New York Times that there have been many contacts, it's a u disk,
can't get off the map is every time you turn around,
there is another story that you don't know how to respond to his information that you didn't know about coming
at you and people get very nervous people warrior up and they get nervous and they they stopped
here here, each other. They suffer any emails about things like it's very hard to make decisions in the White House.
As a museum shedding it's here, for these guys are now that no adjust its it just because we know we ve been there before and, like you said, and in crazy, that's quite a drop in the book.
Compared to this, but
It is also the way they choose to respond to these things, and it starts at the top with tromp right, which is they can never let it go. You know like
look it. If you judge the White House message of the day by what the President says, which usually do you,
twitter, it's all of it,
like him attacking the leakers him saying that leakers are gonna, pay big prize him attacking the media, him attacking the Democrats like if you want
at least try to start changing the subject I don't know
maybe he can try to do what he was elected to do like talk about an interest
your bill talk about his tax plans. Talk about something is just like one all they can do.
Who is try to
spawned defensively and lie in
sponsor what happens and that doesn't,
We help them too much. I don't think
no. No, it doesn't said he the other,
thing in how you responded? These is unique.
Get one answer that
everyone within the administration users, whether the president, its pants, its chance by sir? It's Kelly and Conway?
all say the same thing and they say the same thing every day
and you try to drew you try to starve it's a feeding, Phronsie and try to starve the media.
Because what they want to do is say well kept.
And Conway said this morning, Joe and insurance by Sir said this. What is
that means they change their opinion on the Trump said this and they are constantly changing the story every day.
Good day and that's problematic because learn up there
The facts are doing and they're not organise and any reawake as its prick. Others know we're
there's one thing, if Trump, you don't like me,
control, trumpeters scary, for a lot, but amongst themselves you would think that the staff should at least get in a room and come up with one answer, my between all of them in their incapable of that, as well
yet at least Kelly Conway John Spicy, you think, would be talking to each other, since both of them are on tv all day. You know like
least it those who should get their stories straight
seems to drink. I don't get the sense they like,
each other. I don't get that sense either. I don't think that their figures thieves so
France responds basically is too
Flynn, sort of deny everything attack the leaguers veneer times. They reported that he's basically assigning one of his Billinger headphone friends to lead a review of american intelligence agencies. So that seems like
So? These guys really gonna go through and triumph be no purge the people that our loyalty, Trump Little scary
when attacking the media's fake news, is what a lot of fake news, fake media, which again, if
fake news and why did he firefly in the first place? And then
and you alluded to the stand he only take
questions that these press conferences from white rightwing media six quest
he's taken so far and three press conferences, New York, Post Fox,
the Collar Town Hall, Christian Break
as to network and local.
And clear outlet seems alarming. Yes, he yeah not now again,
we're doing this. He's taken. People might have ten questions at the press conference today from a man
stream news outlets
because maybe he's running out of in the life two sets of the world, but who knows.
Let's assume for second, he does that just small hope. This firm shifting also give the benefit of the doubt. But what is
we obviously do things with friendly news outlets. I know
and they should do the same thing. He could do interviews with them. He doesn't have to do now with Rachel Matter. We talk about it,
in our view a bright bear, even though we did it once or twice its
like I had already, but in a press conference you have
have a mix in. I some people like you
about this the other day and I've got a bunch of really well thought out responses for people with mega in their profile
but the truth is, I can't think of a press conference where we did anything resembling that
We, I think if we took question
on the tv sweeter questions from all the networks
These are questions from CNN almost in every case. You would also take it from Fox and
there's no press conference robot most like I'll talk to half POE.
It has no analogy here because besides
Oh there's not a lot of other people
of media outlets there.
Credentials for press conferences
The right will say orbit the New York Times and CBS. Now that it was ok, fine, you think that their legislative and argument right, it's a stupid argument, so yeah
Are you besides? Having imposed it's not like that
a tonne that were at those press conferences be like elected. I will start with half POE
Lemme get a daily cause. I'd like to end with a gentleman the back from the x files
makes a ministry next Democratic, menstruation cricket media will be there, then you'll be if you're, not the fuckin front rosy, then, and all our support that will be column. Last questions will be the new hp
Yes, it's! It's really not great, though, because these,
we're, not challenging him in any way, and
But you know, I think, at the press conference yesterday, no one asked
questions the two reports,
he called on neither of them asked about Flynn or Russia instead. Instead, one asked about Anti Semitism in his response was that he had a huge electoral victory that which,
smartphone, a juncture natural for the record now not just for the record,
hit the nonsensical response, but also in an action also affected.
Accurate one also,
the response of Congress, so,
Republicans in Congress basically have at least in the house,
look can have refused to investigate plan or the russian connections instead. Jason Shea FITS
We given Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio run for their money in my book,
he wants to. He wants to investigate the leakers, that's his letter
doesn't want to investigate the Flint, a russian think just once investigate the leakers.
As someone on Twitter put it. If it is,
equivalent of the Watergate Commission, going outward deep, throw instead of Nixon. I like that, was a good good tweet, whoever
mother said it seems to be in a bit of a different position, because you ve had Mc Mackay,
and gram and Wednesday Grams and they want a broader investigation if it's up Bob,
worker yesterday saying that the entire committee, which is currently conducting the investigation into Russia is moving.
But too slow, and then you ve,
folks and the entire committee both
weakens and Democrats like Mark Warner, saying: well, we ve got this investigation. We actually dont want other committees to an so
so now what what? What's your sense of the what's going on in Congress on us?
when we talk about Paul Ryan for a second,
of course, always format
just was he D
fines to call for congressional investigation into general when because he needs to get more info before rushing to judgment. That is the
So you can have a judgment, you fucking simply legacy. Is it just the worst? He is the worst. Who is that?
like these are just the worst. He is. The worst is the worst
do that today about the leaks coming out the White House he's, like I don't know what leaks coming out of the White House. You tell me all right, man,
like I got to I gotta get back to my tax plan. I gotta get the textile immediately,
even from Paul Ryan Perspective here, the longer this goes
The longer this is there and people are demanding investigations
The less time he's gonna have to put together an o care package and a tax reform package like
You know it's just heat, I dont Heath.
Then he can just get this out of the headlines, so he can get to cutting taxes in regulations and in government
I'm taking a healthcare from people, but I dont think
it's a smart strategy from him. Yet, like I mean if,
If I was Paul Ryan, you want the investigation. Put it. The entire committee dubious
closed doors, and then, then you have an answer for the next making work on it for
The next year you have
answer, which is there
we're looking into it full stop. Let me go back
you're talking about how I can get a deposit
bigger tax got like that. That's a play like its it is
you ain't he's other he's always emphasised very seriously. He's also just handling this like a moron, and I'm also offended by that
unless I worked quickly, the Democrats response this is it.
One. Is it the right
Focus for the Democrats to be talking about
Russia all the time, because
how do regular people to the voters care about this. It's true
because I don't think you should base every decision on. Do voters care about this because governing sometimes just requires doing the right thing and if there is an investigation needed into Russian.
Actions with within the tree
campaign than its needed, regardless of what voters think. But you know
Ross trend when the house back in twenty eighteen,
I don't know. Is it? Are we wasted too much time on this? Are we not spending enough time on this? What do you think about that?
yeah, I'm a little torn on this one. We should Democratic
push very hard for an investigation. They should put pressure on the Republicans theirs
pressure on the Justice Department, and I think, frankly, they should be putting pressure on Jeff session
to appoint an independent council. It is not credible that Jeff sessions can be the one
who overseas investigation into this as one of heat
this investigation to the term campaign just
as one of the earliest and biggest boosters of the trunk campaign, and theirs is
if Loretta Lynch had refused herself from the email investigation, is booklet. Knocking
moreover, airplane then Jeff session should appoint a special council and Iraq.
And if the council- and we should therefore be needed
Education is demographic pressure that I dont think
closing argument when the house is can be around Russia re right so
We have two with the same time we are pushing for this, be
holding a developing, are economic message, and that is where Trump.
Betraying the clinical working class. Populism is camp.
It is going to be in.
As all tied in with the corruption with
is billionaire nominees. Handing the government of Goldman Sachs, all those things are part of a story, and we should
that story over time. So, in the long run run like Russia is, the
solution to democratic political problems, but it's probably the rising to focus on right now. Every day,
but have to connect the two messages in some way to like. I think you say you know trumps
lies and scandals and corruption.
Incompetence is preventing him from doing
the thing to help working people write like that. The administration is in such chaos, so competent to disown broiled and scandal that its
doing what it was elected to do, which is help people Mina, live their lives better.
Any other side benefit of this Russia stuff is in
Is it also you don't want to
we're. Trying to do is keep the Republicans from being able to move forward on some other horrible legislative. It is and the more
chaos that is happening around here, the better, so
there is. Another
a fire like we should get outta for gas on this fire from a political perspective,
Also, the right response will be do because
It is true that
campaign was colluding with Russia.
Intelligence to affect our election, it's the biggest political skin on american history. It dwarfs the what Watergate. Ah you know of Richard exit on registering back lag
yeah a massive scandal and we should pay be verified and we should be very focused on it.
As a country and as a party, its
we're not saying it's Watergate yet, but if that is true
Then, yes, you are correct, and these are responsible of you.
I'm seen others these. I was watching the little thing on Fox they little clip and reading
right wing news and even some of the annoying centrist calmness be like all the Democrats are doing is comparing into Watergate like that's. The biggest problem. Right now is Watergate comparisons. That's worth that's our biggest challenge right NET Dan, but the Russia connections, water.
Responsible, Watergate comparisons. Ok, when we can
We will have the Atlantic Julia Coffee
a little more about all this Russia stuff. This is responsive America, stick around more ratio coming away, pod save
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On the blood today we have a staff for the Atlantic. Julia coffee,
WWW welcome back to pod, save America thanks radically. Absolutely
So you reader, you recently wrote a peace on this, but as wondering what was the reaction in Moscow too?
the firing of our of our good friend, Michael Flynn. You know
in Moscow. They just see it as more more chaos coming under the Trump administration. Ah, they seem to be back
away from him. More and more. Today there was a report in Bloomberg that the credit,
has ordered at various television stations. Do not report about
company warrant asylum. Is that says the romance over here? What's gonna Burma and could ever had? You know
things there were some them inflated hope there was some
Finally, a lawmaker in the lower house of the russian Parliament without great last name of Blueskin lucky, who yesterday I am responses terms tweet about taking Russia taking Crimea and all cap said that this was like
cold shower. For our inflated expectations, that said, I dont know that Putin had crazy inflated expectations. I think he did. He doesn't his expectations. Never get crazy and inflated is a realistic, very cynical, very jaded guy, and I think all of that you know he is the one decision makers in the country is one of the people have spoken too. I spoke to Moscow said
the stuff around him. You know the champagne toes firm, trumps inauguration and allied streaming watching parties of his inaugural address. I that's all right, but they affect nothing in terms of decision
Waking and Britain probably knew
he was getting with Trump. I mean I think he was surprised that he got him period until they keep body.
When used to turn up in a singular condemn, but with Trump. I think there was a sense in Moscow in them and in the closing days of a campaign at the presidential campaign here that
if this guy, when it's gonna, be great and the champagne toast we'll go flat pretty quickly because he saw and predictable and that's it
to be happening, maybe a little better than people expected. But it's not unexpected you was going to say is: is that what's the bitter outcome for Putin here? Is it true?
successful Trump administration where there,
closer relations with Russia, or is it an
successful Trump administration. Where you know the? U S is sort of destabilized because of his presidency. I think either up her work on this issue.
Why I find an american narrative of Putin as this all seeing all knowing how the master with a perfect and perfectly executed master plan. I find that to be a problem
because the cars also find by the state of his hands in his them in and he makes decisions
in a pretty emotional knee jerk way to a lot of the time. I think that for him, either outcome is ok, which is also, which also signifies that he's not he's playing a weekend and he's not aiming for perfect, like Americans often are promptly successful
define successful- is if he, if he cannot to lift sanctions against Russia great if he'd continue
is weakening Europe and brings Russia in from the cold even more and happen if he doesn't chaos and in the U S and in Washington
his great for approval for a number of reasons. First of all, its ninety nine wine, Russia has been Russians and people in love, former soviet republics and air that you two european countries that were part of them
I saw pact were striving since the eightys there were striving towards the western way of life, both from the consumption in terms of politics and Britain has always resisted against, and for him a really important domestically that people don't try. Don't wanna live like what
still, I that their satisfied with what life in Russia and the more chaotic things become in here.
And in the EU as a more massive, more work. It's like the more unpredictable russian hate unpredictability because they have suffered a lot from unpredictability of history. The more criticism, chaotic and unpredictable them less appealing to Russians and therefore the better Putin does, with his own constituents and Trump continues to take up or takes a firmer, firmer stance against Russia. That's great for Britain to because this is a very comfortable wall, this a very comfortable dynamic for the Kremlin, where
Whoever is in the White House is evil and either he's out here she about you or he is after humiliate Russia and weaken it and sordid everywhere in the world, and so we have to rally round the flag and we have no value around our leader and make sure to place our own team, though you can. It doesn't really
situation when she loses, maybe he's all say, that's a presence. How important is sanctions really vizir a point in time or they need those to be where the practice
gets to him, or are they kind of fine for as long as long as they want? I think it would be great freedom of sanctions well,
said how it's made financing a lot of deal in Russia, more complicated,
money laundering more complicated, but you know that they can continue.
Hobbling on forever. Russians are again, Russians aren't Americans, they don't expect perfect. They don't expect to be living lashly and lavishly uncomfortably all the time you know, and even as food prices grow and things get harder and harder for the average Russian
I think, they're gonna hobble on for a long time. In your view, what is the most innocent
explanation for multiple contacts between Trump campaign officials in russian intelligence. Here. Here's one interesting about this. I talk to you a number of they'd Hartman Currency Department, official who
no fans of the current president and even might might fall, who
whom you buying a well President Obama invested or to Moscow in one of the architects of the reset upon President adviser in Russia has said this publicly.
There's nothing untoward about a member. I top member of the President's transition team being in touch with foreign diplomats
people do it all the time you should be doing it all the time you need to start putting out feelers and developing,
a common language of mutual understanding that once the rubber his throat, you couldn't you already know who you're talking to you you're, not doing not in the first days of office. The problem here seems to be to hold one. It is you know its political belied shoe or he seems to have lied to the vice president, and you know certainly looks bad when he's doing this, having stood up at the Republican National Convention last summer and joining that through the crowd here, not counting locked her up and saying. If I had done a tenth of what Hillary Clinton good, I would be in jail. Myself said: Alice Bela's kind of bad plus a team,
he may have lied to the FBI. So I think from the russian perspective there not long in saying you know what this is an internal hr matter and you guys forgot yourselves were not touch unless they will be answered
the time story aside from Flynn the dirt,
The carrying you head. Man afford
I guess others, since they still haven't name them who were in
regular contact with senior
intelligence officials like I did it does seem, like obviously a transition you are reaching out to your counterparts. I get that, I'm just one,
how unusual it is during the king?
What could they ve been talking about during the campaign rate? If it wasn't some sort of collusion? I don't know
That said, I don't, I don't think I think the New York Times stories far from smoking on you
and you know- and they were quite careful and put in a number of caviar
I can't believe I'm gonna, save it, but I think comment a fort had a point when he said enough story when he was after coming. He said
Look you're talking to Russian, get you don't
We know that their intelligence- there is another- not wearing name tag, say Hammond, intelligence officer and that's true under Putin, the lines between civilians and members of those secure. You, no secret services,
dirty agencies have become blurred and any rushing you talk to them.
Now in any part of the part of the ideas to sell mistrust between between citizens adamite people so that when you're talking to a fellow Russian, you don't know if you're talking to a business man or whenever bigeye posing,
this ban or you're talking to a member of the Foreign Ministry and he's a jury guy or just diplomat, that kind of by design, so they could have been talking to russian business men on the hypothetical fear giving them the benefit of the doubt they could have been talking to russian businessmen. That happened have and actions with the secret services so yeah, I know I don't know. I think it is what it was not really a smoking gun. That said, all of this
stuff is twirling and twirling and twirling the Trump administration isn't really addressing this, and when they do address it kind of blows up even more- and you know, there's a lot of unanswered questions and it doesn't. It doesn't
right at the very verily Louis you may want investigation. Just sort of
you're the users to all these questions and an alpha? You know it's interesting worth call me, and that is where it says the I direct your he painted himself into a corner would be weird precedence
that for himself this summer, and so now we have reports that Michael often may or may not have lie.
To the FBI and Jason traces
in other matters resolved itself and the deafening silence will call me and the FBI given the president. They said it's just I don't it's. Just a hot less
mass that if it's a good description of our foreign policy, speaking of a hot mass, what
to deal with the russian spy ship off the coast of my home state of dollar. Ninety minutes act. That's actually quite normal. Most runner birthday talk to work. Well, I. This is why we think it is the here that's happening, and I think this is why Moscow's turned back away a little about the
chaos around from is bringing all the anti Russia the head of the extra
Anti Russia voices both on the left and the right in this country into into sharp contrast in its making and its amplifying them
and so everything you know a ship off the coast. We freak out. That said, it's not that one's normal, but in the context of Russia, buzzing NATO ships, american ships constantly pate testing boundaries which, with NATO Europe, though we no longer know what you forgot about a more just and constant caps, lock freak out loud and end. The russian see this and there like, ok I'll, let you know lower the temperature a little bit back away. The only thing you know getting back to your first question about the fading romance: it's only been a month and massive policy differences have emerged between Trumpet Putin's, though, for example, all the Sabre
going on? Iran, ah there were there, was a report today with the french Foreign Minister said that having after having met with pillars- and he came away believing that the trumpet ministers want the completely
family around Europe, scratch that makes the Russians really nervous?
Iran is an ally they wanted. The around here,
works on IRAN deal. They do. They also do not want IRAN trying to get a nuclear weapon and destabilizing the region even further that they do not like all them. You know the abuse hurled that IRAN, you have these statements on Crimea from Nicky Hayley, the term for administration and that
the? U N, I'm shocked by serving the president himself, that's not sitting, while with the Russians either their thing hey. You can't discuss Crimea because as part of the Russian, because as part of the territory
the Russian Federation, and we do not discuss our sovereign territory with anyone one to just shut up, and you know the Sabre rattling on China. This is you know. These are huge. Huge positive
between the Kremlin and the White House, and I think this actually smart for the Kremlin to take a couple stepped back and say you guys figure this out with talk a little bit later
interesting Julie. One last question: will let you go. You wrote an incredibly moving story in the Atlantic a few weeks ago about your own experience.
Coming to the? U S as a refugee from the Soviet Union back in the late eighties. How do you feel watching what's happening today?
Think I'm falling back on my russian training, which is he kind of a little known, and you try to find the humor and things and you try to not take take things to heart,
really reach personally reached a low point that we can that the executive order was signed on Holocaust remembrance Day, my family's jewish.
We lost many many many relatives in the Holocaust and then
you know saying these refugees who have already gone through extreme betting, who have already their cases are clothes they ve invented they're, not in. I think President Trump Think said. Bessy
Illegal immigrants are not their legal, given that it and could be turned around at that point is just I don't know I've I've found myself crying alive that weekend
and after that I just, although my arm my russian shell of humor and numbness, been trying to structural well, everyone should go. Read the peace in the Atlantic, because if more people did, I think we have different
on some really powerful. Thank you again for out for joining us end, and please come back soon when we need to figure out what is going on with Russia, a guy thanks Julia by
anywhere. Is it America and there's more on the way
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The end of February, so hurry
with his on the pod. Also, today we have the Washington director of move on DOT, Org Ben Whistler Ben welcome to the pod, take too much greater beer,
so this week was coming week a Saturday February, eighteen to Sunday February. Twenty sixth is the
recess of this Congress. The soon members go home to their districts and whole town halls and meetings to hear from their constituents. So
What are you guys have planned for this ban, though? This is not only the first real test of this Congress at the first results of the Trump Administration and recesses, as we know from August emptied out nine say, and the rise of the spectre that he Party Rita
can be huge political turning point. Yet we did have a good time during recess. None of us those kind of Europe that was the we're gonna make that recess a a distant memory at the level of risk.
Energy right now, opposition to this administration that these Republicans is so much bigger now than the tea party ever was that we actually think we can dwarf it, and the referred is the key and a bike like this is the moment when everyone, the national stage it not in Washington DC, it is in town Hall meetings in states and congressional districts across the country, national press or else warming out across the country. To go to these events. This is looking to define the narrative about what is happening politically in the United States and to prepare for it. I move on daily pose a whole bunch of different groups, indivisible we're all.
Working to organise people. I am specifically reusing website resistance recess that com. I would recommend resistance, razetta com, slash crooked, good guy. That's us that
exactly do we actually in anticipation of this moment, we ve created a special link that they ve listeners can go. Do resistance wreath accomplished, work
to find a town hall near them, and when you rsvp three p-
Can I get a phone call from a local acted at organizer so that you can kind of coordinating a group? We should bring your friends you meet up and then, when you go,
fan out. You sit everywhere throughout the audience and you hammer a question: do not let go the microphone?
will you get an answer to your question. Is one of your
Oh patriots is asking a have question of a member Congress applaud when they ask it blew and the thought being entered and make sure the holding of capture
on Facebook live on video and goes out on Twitter with the hashtag resistance recess. We can basically
every one of these little things into a political flashpoint that echoes in ricocheted
we're out political Washington that, by the time we're up against your drag themselves, back bruised and battered to Washington DC. Only a pig
defences are very peaceful re on wistful, yeah, Sidney type activities, but by the time- and you can get back to defeat the amount of like we will have dreamed
not only the swamp and also all the momentum out of their attempt to repeal the EPA and pass the raft of terrible terrible puzzle
and this is important because I just saw the power- and this morning said they
we'll be introducing a bill? Of course they said as they set aside the last seven years, but
that they're gonna be introducing a repeal and replace bill after they all get back from Burma
from President stay recess, so he didn't say which year set at a very important point. I think that I think that, like Paul Ryan staff, as that, as
TED up every year
Has there been no area since one eleven
yeah so bad. A couple questions for you. First,
these pay protesters. You know
We have a three trillion dollar fund, raising
a thousand dollar jack to each person to go to buy these products as if you lying hours, if you do actually you just go to POD save America,
the cricket media, get crooked media com, Flash reimbursed
where's your sorrows and there's absolutely anything to this is its regular that there isn't a joke matters go! That's everything currently does not add anything. It not only are these not pay protesters the organised laughed, they professional laughter fuel it like scrambling to catch up with
amount of energy and appetite to show up at these events, members
risk can organise another bent to accommodate all the people who want to come and ask them questions that actually lead to.
A new idea, which is constituent town halls, which is basically, if there's not a town hall near you, then I at the resistance Refer Stockholm Slash brocade website. If you could make
then you can organize your own town. All. Were you invite remember Congress to show up and about the media?
and have an empty chair for them. If they don't come and like there's gonna, be hundreds of those
the country at the same time as there are all these official town Hall, that's like normally, it is really hard to get enough people that force more coffee shop, but irrational offices are now like
yeah, either booking bigger and bigger venues to deal with the anticipated crowds or freaking out and making all the
security plans to deal with the fact that they are going to be jam, packed, there's going to be an overflow crowd of these events, it's going to be peaceful, but it's going to be intense and if your
you have a question about whether your healthcare is gonna, get ripped away or get. Your kids will be able to sign up your health insurance plan or if your grandmother is gonna, be
kicked out of a nursing home cosmetic aid. Funding has been slashed by two trillion dollars, which is what compress wants to do like go to this event, and you will find it can be
scary right to ask a member Congress. Question is irregular citizen. You will find that you are surrounded by supporting people
there are just a cheer you on. As you ask a question and do your best to copper and like don't go, do you get the study, Jake Taverner views before you go to your room, resistance, resist the thousand.
Like for someone who's never been to one of these, which is I'm assuming it to be a lot of people, because we're here,
from people who was in here like it's the first time they ve ever gone to protest at the first tentative gonna Town Hall. What's the
parents like like what should someone expect if they go to one of these historic? We, the experience is that
like a handful of variously people. That is not what the experience will be. Now, if you go,
now that they have a thing. You go to resistance, Rita, that calm, slash, brocade you're in Phoenix, and you find that Paul goes our at having a account all at the best western Gold canyon in an sweets. It is a process to the wall, greens, not that account lovely, lovely, lovely, spot beautiful. You know why, with hills in the distance,
the town hall, that six p m, so you were rife with your car full of our friends? Are you pull injected the subtle setting? I you have you have your signs but you're not making big deal, I'm them, because when you come in your just looking deriving earlier hope, are you looking for good seed spread throughout the crowd so that all of you can be read in your hand, and you have a better chance of getting called on the member harvests. Yo, I will be around low. The late introduces make some sort of by the duty remarks there, probably a little nervous to try to figure out who, in this crowded there to half of them,
The answer is almost everybody, but in the best must be drastic, simple possible way, and then they opened the might. They probably have a floating MIKE or depending on the size of the room. Maybe they just calling on people and everyone hands use up. You wanna be smiling and looking as just supportive if possible. When you have your hand up, because you want to be called up, you don't wanna, be ignored and you and your friend, through the room, have all written down your questions in advance. You practice, then you know how to include like a bit of your own story to your identity. Hang yourself than Wick, where I was once turned down for health insurance without violating, because I just gotta don't bug task that actually wife,
about a story about my wife, she had should like doesnt tolerant, he had the test out, we're turned out for insurance or pre existing condition, since we didn't antelope why he had stomachic that with the old days my detail that story- I'm anybody can you can bet right now that, under whatever plan like you come up with the you would not vote for any plan that would result in someone like me. Getting turnout for insurance and everyone who have insurance right now can keep their coverage. Can you commit to that here and now, and then the member Congress tries to dodge embedded time like you're, nervous.
Your excited and you're supposed stop talking, but you haven't gotten answered your question. Do you look at you,
by and you know that there are all these people holding up their phones, making a facebook live. Video of progress are right there and then- and you say, can you please come in this matter-
for my family, can you commit the people will not lose their insurance coverage, that people will be turned down and everyone applauds and you find suddenly that, like the whole, like five of the room, has turned its back on your side. You're standing there supported by the whole kind of grassroots army, of your fellow constituent
Even though none of your being paid, it's like the like a volunteer army like the old days of the american colonies before they figured out a baby boy and me
yeah. I remember Congress eventually it like not satisfied people you're going to get a public stance, a commitment which is what,
politicians who have unpopular views least want to give but they're gonna try to like wiggle explained away. You gotta keep hammering happen in somebody told how this would have been members of Congress Action
We got the back entrance and try to avoid his address
I don't video for sure, definitely yap, post, you're you're, like ten percent
group should be outside by the exit. So you captured on video actually tried to flee.
But basically basically you want to get to the point where the republican member of Congress to says I quit pandemic at my place, then you walk out George Soros standing there through check, and then you go home, it's a great too great day, exactly Gambia, Technical him, a ride home and let the valet take your car and we- and we should say again to that. If, as I saw it
Vice news had report today that some two hundred members of Congress aren't holding.
A town halls or meetings next week, because they are afraid that this might happen? And so, like your same ban, you should organise it yourself ice
you told me that some people are bringing cardboard cut out of their congressmen to the to the town halls. Were there not holding them. Yet that's a great thing to do
did you do to computer printer and put the face
If you remember, if you take like a piece of a box, he didn t do it and then it is bringing
assured on a career. You can have a pretty good replica, remember Congress, at your time.
I'll, even if they don't show up? I should say
the careful with those carbon credits aroun back. He does should always work. It rained make Amerika great had yet
I would emphasise, is you know you do it and then you make sure that the world sees it, though, like you might not get back a question. If you go to one of these, where you can definitely do what everyone can do is posed to Facebook posed a twitter from the event, do a facebook live stream from me that keep them,
on your member Congress and if you push it out with the hashtag resistance recess, then my colleague that move on are gonna be tracking that throughout the weekend, lotta people be tracking it and it can be amplified. He can go by our own and be seen across the country yeah. Maybe I'm flood of these things and that something that no matter, even it
You are terrified by the idea of Afghan gradually. What do they think you can really help creed?
a moment that becomes a political turning point
and you shall know that we will do the same thing so a fewer she tweet tweeted here for
repulsive America hopes will be will be monitoring this all weekend next week to and well I will. I will give you some love Ben. Thank you. So much for fur
but check in with us and and talk about this, and thanks for helping us set up. This
website where very excited about this. So everyone again go to resist
three says: dot com, slash crooked, to find,
where you can go to to organise during the recess and and we will be checking in next week.
On this. Just to her too
I give everyone updates on. What's happened out. Their Ben thanks for thanks was Dobbin by exit. Take her
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Transcript generated on 2020-04-03.