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“‘Committee to Save America’ my ass.”

2017-08-21

White House staffers and Republican leaders debate what to do about Trump as he keeps a shrinking base and loses the rest of the country. Then Politico’s Eliana Johnson joins Jon, Jon, and Tommy to talk about Bannonism, Trumpism, and the future of the Republican Party. 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The present sponsor Repulsive America is blue. Apron boyfriends mission is to make Incredible home, cooking, accessible to everyone achieve this supporting the more sustainable food system, setting the highest standards for ingredients and building a community of whom chefs get your first three males free with free shipping. By going to blueprint outcome, Slash cricket, blue apron is a better. Way to no game accountable. As ever, I promise Welcome to plug save America, I'm John fairer! I'm John love it. This is a more muted and on Tommy who we're your time. I'm David I do share from better match today, show we will talk to politicos, Aliona Johnson about all kinds of stuff, Bannon Trump riper, great, wonderful, heavy stuff.
Happy Eclipse day, totally not plan piece of you. You know I think that what is going on- and I was going to be proud of this pod- cares for not making eclipse dogs. I've been complaining about law morning, but their eager curator chump missed an opportunity to tell his supporters that Obama was about a blot out the sun, but that he was gonna fix it. Ok, what workshop it were job it and tried something: some people into a report that will gunners anyway, everyone Chica, listen, a lover leave it from it was the best episode of all time. That's really. I think he has made a good one. Man is really good on many people are saying that people like a team- or rather by the way TIM. Was you guys having checked out and got our go. The cut zone with similar Larry will
was awesome. Langston Carmen was awesome. Gabby down was awesome. It was out with definite my erika. So if you are letting lover to leave it percolate for awhile before he checked it out, check it out, get an egg in tomorrow, Tuesday positive, the people's outdoor is talking to former Obama, drug czar, Michael, but actually about opiates and cast of Crown heights, and Tommy on putting the world this Wednesday, or do we have little preview? Maybe we're gonna dig into the ongoing crisis in Venezuela. Profits and echo about the where we find what a diversity of topics and maturity like us develop. Rivers, that's, ok, let's diversion It's been about a week since the present I'd stay till the press conference where he angrily defended. The quote very fine people who marched rally organised by white supremacists and NEO Nazis in a new Yorker peace from
Sorry, I think David redneck sums up where we are quite well quote. This is the inescapable fact. On November night, the United States elected a dishonest inept, unbalanced and immoral human being, as its present commander in chief who is daily proven unyielding to appeals of decency, unity, moderation or fact. And yet here we are only eight months into our you're sentinel and there's no way out on August. There is a way out on good behavior, but Paul Ryan. I think we are today is what happens now, because you can easily see to start turning to a saying last week. The next thing, the next crisis he's got the Afghanistan speech. Tonight
yours is gonna, come back next week. There's a debt ceiling coming that, unlike so, are we just going to move where all gonna move past Charlottesville we grow stuck with the sky. What do we do want to talk about what the white people in the White House do then elected Republicans and then get to the voters? But let us begin with the White House, my gown of acts. He has talked to senior right as fish about why this axis that's right? Access at areas are reactors exists a friend of Enron and x axis, told us at axis we're going to access text Europe, has a classic labour that globally belaboured it. Supposedly senior serious adult moderate way, how staffers Gary Cone, Rex Tillers, Indiana, Palestine, nuke in and others don't quit. He said the most common response was have no idea, how much crazy stuff we kill Tommy do by that. No! No! I don't want you to Thailand there were eight months in women hearing that same garbage
and the Muslim then- and there is no evidence of any thing crazy- that's been stopped a tweet Stella go out. The policies are still happening you now. I, unlike what we see every single day is a dysfunctional White House staff by people that spend more time attacking one another. They do doing any work mean fewer pointing this out, Who use work for our colleagues, like you need dancer disaster read about like David Actor, being sad and sitting in his office. Does it, and yet, as were soon get written in like so it's. I think it's nonsense. Give some space to the national security staff. I want no out of there. I want madness. There like there are some things that those people are probably holding together. That are very important that your political advice, in this White House and you're holding out like Gary Cohn cuz. You want to appointment to the FED or you think that you need to do a year. Cuz that looks good on your resume You are morally bankrupt in the way you could help the country indeed
do the countries you sign. It ought not to Donald Trump beside it off to the country you serve, will be to step outside the office and tell people what you saw. You can go quietly to Paul Ryan. You could talk to Mcconnell the talks of the newspaper of your choice, except Rape are probably and tell them what's going on in there, because this man is like four mentally and morally unfit to be president- and I think, that's true to a lot of us, but there's a subset of the country is not going to believe it coming from anybody, but a hard core republican. Maybe then they won't still believe it, but like we have to start talking about that, now love it. Yeah. You know I am sympathetic yesterday when there was this whole thing about Donald Trump, telling that's too bad about some sellers, possibly dying and Maggie Haber. Men shared a speech that John Kelly gave about death of two Marines and others. The John Kelly son had died in Afghanistan, gave his incredibly moving speech about service, and so I was
I knew you were gonna talk about this today, and so I was thinking about it a lot and- and I do think that there is like a special dispensation for John Kelly, my master, who are doing national security and I've always been a bit more sympathetic to the? We have no idea what they kill argument that people like Dena Powell and Gary Con, others may, although, though I don't, I think a lot of them are or kingdom because by the way, one of the things my gown points out that there also there, because they think it's good for their careers. I go back and forth because I do think then brine boiler room. Thus in the New Republic today about if they're so worried, what don't drop the due to the country there are moral obligation is to do something ordinary right call press conference before them stand side by side. This man must be removed right. You know these people out would have an effect and I would have told me that wouldn't have an effect. Of course it would have an effect. So people like people and the other part of this, too, is so so I have ie sitting side by side, which is I want them to do that. I want them to tell the truth, because these people think that the committee, to save America, but meanwhile there not their prolonging this presidency.
At the same time, I know that if they were to call that kind of press comrades, if, if the people who are My gallant, privately, that this is a disaster in their saving the country every morning, from from what Donald Trump want to do. I know that if they were to go public with that, it would take months for there to be. But all were relying on other people than to be courageous too. So I am a little bit more sympathetic. The problem I have, as these people want there, that they want to have their cake and eat it. Have their cake and eat it too? They want to be in the White House and get the credit Then they also want to everyone good day, make sure the world knows just how conflicted they are just how much they're afraid their own reputations are being damage and like now, I'm sorry, you don't get to have it both you will be associated with Trump forever all the past. If you're gonna do this, you don't get it plain every data reporters and outside people and say everyone stop attacking me, I'm doing my best to you have to take the fucking criticism, but let us remember why: how senior advisors are admitting to reporters? The trump routinely try
do shit, that's crazier than he's already done. They vote, they top officials The White House are saying this and linked by the. This is truly the reasoning than I expect. As twenty twenty comes under the rise in the Dean Powell and Gary Cone and all people quit the administration and go work for primary opponent if they really want bats after having, because that's the best avenue to do that, and only to an end and listen, we are all look. It is very clear that allows These people are just monitoring what people are saying about them at all times, trying to do their best to protect their own reputations b they're inside this. This of mess and the thing I was just hey, Dena Powell, you chose this. You stepped into a big historic moment and it after a campaign in which all of this was very obvious, so very You walked in the door and you said you wanted to be part of this big moment in history and now it s, something of you and it is not clear that you're up to it, because if
You want to stay there and you're, saying you're stopping bad things like yours. Down you don't get to just leave your feelings to my gown you're gonna have to go in front of a cat Mars enough to do the right thing and, and time is taking, that's it yeah and half of these people of pirate their own pr teams to to sell their version of events and clearly what they care about their public reputation. Not what's really happening inside you. Always Never member Kelly and Conway getting all upset a gentleman, Aim for saying. Are you telling me the campaign? I ran with a platform for white supremacist like that, with some sort of outrageous stay But then you have, you have Steve, and on the way out the door saying he wants Democrats to talk about racism every day, because it benefits him politically. It benefits from politically, and I think, like the obvious way, you need to extrapolate. That statement is that an observation. It's it's a future. He wants to make happen by like sewing racial discussion, through his roared, the White House or through bright Bart his disgusting.
MRS Green that he is now back to running. So I dont tell me that this isn't something that you guys are pushing in wanting to make up Clearly is a record for all the talk about Democrats and identity politics. This is now an administration. This is now a when media number of outlets and through that the base that is energized by white identity, politics, that's what this Are there other policies, all their other initiatives have fallen short they don't matter, they don't put a lot of us. What what gets these people going against from going? What gets Bannon going is identity. Politics, yeah absolutely and an end by the wait. That's not new with this is something he's been campaigning on. This is what he did A real estate person is what he did when he was camp we get the central part five and what he did when he campaigned against Obama and call and made himself a birth are, but the other part of this I just I want to put one to say one more thing about like these people inside the White House and how to handle this. This is new right.
No one's ever been asked to serve her Donald Trump as president for no one these are all people being a moral tacit. They ve never anticipated, never thought they'd face, and so I am sympathetic to that. I sympathetic to the feeling that you an obligation to prevent some of these things from the inside, and I understand being worried about your own reputation. The process like I am sympathetic to that. So I guess it's like Charlottesville and what Donald Trump has said, even after John Kelly was supposed to fix things right. You guys that these people that are inside the White House, like I understand how you got to this point, but leaking My gallon, that you're worried is just not enough. That's islands ever committed to Amerika my ass episode, title and integration studying balls, the Washington Post says that republican lawmakers leaders are caught between discussed over his failure to unequivocally condemn NEO Nazism. I a desired
too. Conservative agenda and fears of rupturing the Trump Trio P coalition ahead of twenty eight enlargements. Since I was elected Republicans, lawmakers leader in the country, go beyond the white us tell me what you take away from this piece. I thought was Mean Dan Balls is one of the best reporters in the business. You should always read what he did. Especially, was a step back in our speeches, and I think that it was something we probably all sort of intuitively new, which was that the base of the party is all in with Trump still. Despite all that, you Your us talk about on the show and others who have concerns about child, so everything else, but that there is an elect. There's leaders who are a little more thoughtful in a little more gauge. In a little more sore cognizant of the norms and standards that a bit of president should meet that are concerned about him and trying to figure out what to do, and so you know? I don't know that it's a mine, lying piece of analysis, but I do think it serve speaks to the Stickeen us in the channel. You're, getting a broader subsided,
relation to move these, I think those people who are hard core trump folks will only listen to republican voices criticising him. They will only start to turn if we can get some additional senior serious republicans. Like me, way from infecting, because a guy wrote it up over we can in the New York Times and he's like somehow Harvard educated blogger, I decided to write up policy magazine about Donald Trump. Let of that guy left trampled act. I should be smart enough.
No that he was a racist to begin with when he said a mexican judge couldn't rule against him because of his re straight, I could care less with those people think I do think we need to find some way to break into the closed ecosystem, a Fox news and Bright Bart and Facebook, and, however, people are getting their information that are not like following the self management yeah. It made me realize that a lot of these republican elected Republicans are sort of it in a way in terms of their relationship with the base caught between trumps megaphone and the Fox Bright Bart, megaphone and so like they They don't know what if they wanted to go against Trump right, which some of them do. Maybe they're gonna go against their base and they can, and so they have also made a fairly cowardly decision and that either a there there, because they really want to get there ex cuts and they really want to get a repeal of Obama, care and other conservative priorities or be they just really want to keep their job in twenty years.
And in order to carry to write a political cowardice and both of us now the one thing that may change this calculation is he failed to from failed to repeal Obamacare. So far we have yet to see the tax from debate goes if they dont get there servitor priorities. Does it make it more likely that then they go against strong? Well, that's half the calculus right. Getting things done for themselves, at the same time. You know these guys have been stoking this base for thirty years. For thirty years they have been gathering these people in a collar and Chang. Get we're gonna get some blood we're gonna these lions, you gonna kill these Christians, as can be fucking awesome, and you guys- love it and we're all gonna die. That unease Christians are going to die in this Colosseum and then all of a sudden. They like woke up this morning and I got walk down into the centre, the Colosseum in their. Like I think this. I didn't really think it would get this
So you know their their stock. I mean that they don't know what to say that they have been looking the other way fully embracing this kind of politics. For so long and now, all of a sudden, it's like the it again loosened, the guns firing all over and it started hit them and they don't know what to do that is done or what to do in the region themselves giant needed second analogy- probably not the more analogies, the better that they set itself in lots of China thought now get so the question is: what could they in a better world here. Were these people should courage? What could they do? Could they say I guess they could censure Trump? They could try to impeach him but like what what specifically resume teaching them only I got a name him when they criticise them, this all highly sub. Twenties greetings of racism is bad, all of us All of us should be able to say to you our Dasso feckless sympathetic, Bahrain is eight Margo Rubia.
Not a Rubia women, where I think we have had this debate before. Who is at the bottom of the barrel, marker Rubio, Paul Ryan, and the In answer to the outer. It's all right. It's at the answer as Paul Ryan, because he is more interested in treating our Noriega Bake. Tax reform. Full shark or Rubio has more courage than Paul Ryan, Hey Paul, Ryan, of less courage than Marco fucking thing that errors- you remember listeners Included- is there with were fundamentally thirty. Fifty country to like them, never does unlikely to be a wild swing and poles that nerve looks really satisfying where Trump is suddenly at, like one thousand one hundred and forty right now, but the polling over the weekend in places like Michigan and Pennsylvanian Wisconsin, shows him well underwater approval between thirty four and thirty six percent and the large majority of people are embarrassed by him. Sixty four percent. Say their embarrassed by members- is twenty percent who feel proud of Trump that the things you holding it up. Is that he's doing? Ok,
its economic argument, which to me is exactly where we should go after suicide about this. The public opinion stuff cause, there's conflicting reports here, so that involves piece you have it. Republican strategists was workin campaigns and read in purple. States said that, while support for Trump generally declined over all since Charlottesville slightly support rose among his base after a decline last month because of the failure of healthcare in Russia revelation. So it's interesting that the healthcare failure, and, to some extent, Russia, depressed his based support, but the Charlottesville Response Increase Bay supports, which tells you something very scary, sad frightening about the Trump base. Hyena. Yes, but I also think a piece of that is yes, there is some racial element to his base and ever deny that browsing a lot of it is just rolling the mainstream! It is like telling the press to shut up telling Washington they're wrong
you have never backing down like a piece of liking trump. That is just about being a troll. I grew them and then the New York Times did there fifty fifth story where they go interview, a bunch of trump supporters who say they still afford him. I had said his pieces look there is. There is value in talking to people around the country who voted for tromp, who are on the fence of troops of it that but what they do so that the peat, this peace features of the person they talk to, that they feel the peace, the thirty five year old, african american woman from Boston Right and she talks about how this whole debate is silly. She still supports trump all this kind of stuff. What they don't say is that this woman was a Trump delegate at the republican convention like you couldn't find someone who wasn't a trump del of Tromp Fuckin delegate at their Publican convention is still gonna be for Trump. If they're, not that's, when we go to it,
We was just saying we're down to like eleven percent and that's just not going to happen. So what is the use of talking to that? One also, you know she's also profiled so many times, because she's, an african american woman from Boston Sports TRAP and so by all those quality together. She has an outlier. She is a rare case not to mention the fact that she's a delegate to Trump anyway. I look forward to the article it's about tat. I never supported Trump because he's obviously terrible my sister and I stand by that position, part seven. The real problem with these trump supporters, though with Trump pieces and their prevalence everywhere is, it makes everyone else, think thing, really matters, nothing changes, but then you see them pull the Tommy decided right rightly he is thirty, six, thirty, five thirty four percent in the three states, where seventy two and vote. Seventy thousand votes whatever was made him prisoner, had states, that's really bad yet and invent. Just to that point. I think that there is this kind of
professional cynicism. That's been aided by the fire battle. Donald Trump became president and so, like obviously, Trump winning was a great great reward to this end and fairly so, but these more matter who's base will matter these people None of us matters you guys to win, lose again kind of thing, and it's not dials on with switch We have to win them all. We had to turn a couple dials right with daily. He is too low some of the people that were soft. We have to gain some more people who didn't turn out right. So like these and you dynamics doom right. Yes, Is there gonna be a nightingale different where all the son he's lost people, but he just we just have to do a a bit better than we did before. While into that point, you know some people said about the merest Paul, well Donald Trump approval. Under water in those states when you and the presidency and that's true, but they also tested congressional preference in those states. Democrats, her head of Republicans by thirteen points in Miss in Michigan ten points in Pennsylvania and eight points in Wisconsin now,
This is a little misleading to just do general congressional preference in these states because it state wide right. So that basically tells you that in the governors raises for those states which are incredibly important, and they all have governors in twenty eighteen teen. The Democrats are really good shape. Congressional districts are too four, because their more gerrymandered, and so, if you went congressional district by congressional history You might not get numbers that good for the Democrats, Russia. That has something to think about, but the other point about we We need some of these voters. Nate cone of the New York Times did apiece couple days ago or Yankees that you know the voters who switch from a bomb attack trump were decide
of particularly among Non college educated voters, and particularly in the states that made from President Michigan Pennsylvania, was constant. Higher question is: can we went back so neat has basically good news and bad news. Bad news is the big chunk of those about a trump voters who now identify, as Republicans who did who basically switch their party self identification and the ones who voted for Trump because of racial resentment. Was a good chunk were probably not getting back, but about thirty percent of those voters still identifies Democrats. These are the people who voted for trumpet also voted for Jason Candor for Duckworth for fine. Old for Katy, beginning in Pennsylvania, all of whom ran a head of Hillary Clinton- and I thought that the most interesting point that he makes his Tammy Duckworth one, the twelfth district in Illinois, which is a downstate working class district, held by republican congressperson by nine points
and Trump wanted by twelve points. So in a year and twenty sixteen were Trump one to huge swing to huge slammer people, as Hillary Clinton lost that district by twelve points and Tammy Duckworth wanted by nine point. Man lot of opinions on that. I'm just here now is its and that these voters tension port abortion rights same sex, marriage higher minimum wage. So these are actually because there's business hold debate. Do we go after the Obama Trump voters, or is that ridiculous, alas, cause we ve gotta go after third party voters and boost turn out, and I think the answer is both threat right by that's interesting. That speaks to you how to go after a bomber trumpeters with It's obvious when you say, but with an economically populist message, posit Mary brought you buy helix your unique. You don't walk like everyone else. Talk like everyone else or sleep like? what else. So why is your mattresses?
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What am I said? What am I lift driver begun? I said I'll give you five star that we fund. I happily drive him when he was across the street. From every day the office was a little little How do I get this morning? I wanted to listen. Couple. Montgomery, shudder, Dana and I haven't Michael Barbara, so we're going to Atlantic Johnson about banning and what's next, but I thought we like a little bit about it first, so that interesting vanity, fair peace. Where banning goes off- and you know he says the Jared is a dope. He believes that commissioners of Dope Funny banning is right, Bannon hates everybody, but he's right about some of the people. It s room he wants to take down.
How do you get two sources of enemies here? Two sets of enemies you want to take down from the outside. Now. One side is the globalists. If he calls a globalist Gary Cohn, Kushner Ivanka, the other are the hawks. Is he called the hawks which is Mcmaster to DINA Powell? So tonight, The trouble is giving his speech about a new strategy in Afghanistan. It seems like from what's leaked out about the strategy that ban has lost this battle. He wanted more redraw down and now Trump is needed. I draw down, I mean, don't you you talk to the point of being. The question of like will make a difference if banning now that Bannon is gone. I think we don't know him, and I think my fundamental take home is that the problem with this White House is Trump and nothing will change until he is gone. But there is an old cliche that that personnel policy that has a lot of tat, I think, is a lot of doesn't get to the president in
policies yet made unemployment in ways that are that are very important, but so But this is a unique example of banning was an outsize voice in foreign policy in a way that would have gotten us savaged in the Obama White Ass, David Axelrod went to a cup meetings on Afghanistan, and it was seen as some huge breach of faith with the see banning. Was trying to push descend in no new troops. Pull our guys out and send in black water to Afghanistan a paid for militia force. He wanted centre that completely. I think everyone thought those but he made an end run. The target Eric Prince had a black water to come to this national security meeting at Camp David over the weekend, like that, the kind of stuff you read about, and you think ok, thank God that guy's out of the building at an idea like ascending private security troops. Bert contractors, whatever they are into a country where or is that
have any kind of legitimacy among foreign policy. Folks are what is that I can very private security forces that will like provide security to personnel that are in country that need like motorcades, and you know, logistical support, but the idea You pay a bunch of mercenaries like three x. What we pay you, a service members to go in and take out Al Qaeda the Taliban, I think, is stature. Crazy So what do you think about the plan that you heard that has leaked for tonight? It sounds like he's: gonna send another three. Four thousand groups, we, I don't think we know. Yet I mean if you, if you think back to another, we took office. Thirty thousand we surged up to hundred thou. And were down that eighty four hundred so another three or four thousand. Like I don't know, that's gonna make much of a difference of their their leaking, that their goals and lose it. It's not to win the war, which is as pre stark thing to tell access
along with everything else. They tell him every day, so I dont know what is the situation on the ground in Afghanistan right now? What is illegal? It's just, losing ground I mean, I think, fifties embers Odysseus, an account under asking governments controls of November twenty sixteen, which is a fifteen percent decrease in the previous year, sell you the challenges you have the Taliban there that's like servan indigenous force that has been a part of the country forever. It's probably not going to go anywhere and we tried to you, know, fight them and kill them into though she ending a peaceful solution, but it never happened and didn't happen with a hundred thousand troops and it doesn't seem like their creating any kind of contacts you need to provide for that long term. Political situation we their sixteen years. In two years there will be troops there who warrant alive on nine eleven think about them. The craziest thing, such alone or eighteen years, along, as were honest, is an interesting decision forward from to do a prime time address on this right there.
Strange because it's not like it's gonna be a popular policy. It certainly nets popular really among his base or our base to commit the United States to longer war. It is, moreover, the probably the hawks position here I am using a prime time addressed there for his first primetime address as president. I think that there is a cynical written need item. Will change comes in for him to remind everybody that he is still actually present? Yeah yeah me also. They ve. When Obama went through this long review, where we are considering sending like tens of thousands more troops, there is, it is a month, long process that we are attacked for data rang in taking too long he's been sitting on this decision for like six months and others, and they like maybe four thousand troops. I mean it's. Does seem like they are taking a huge messing about to roll out something that ultimately very small. Ok, when we come back, we will talk to politicos Elliot
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the catch up today or get your friend haven't down yet to do where switching to the cash you only get me. Back with the cash up you only pay back with the cash It is not that I have annoyed a few friends by paying them back in the cash up when they requested some of the other ones. We talked about this yeah yeah and you know it now: they're changing over so they're making this which Russia, age, Ruggedo Josh, show me, Aren't you making the switch? I, like you very which friendless and in which, don't you have not yet denial, is, alas, we never did not catch the long conversation we had about ass, big ass, the Gaza. Where we talk about our friends know how else we could upset Josh's if we didn't, including in our postman's order, persuades posts It is an act that we will at last night during game with runs. Ok, ok, we're sitting there again, those about to start and I look over and what is Emily doing. She's looking through the postman and enriches like hey, hey, you can
order in thirty minutes and it'll come after game. Thrones just wait just wait, but- but John. I noticed it was happening couple barks set upon it. And there is a lot of growing and playing with LEO you Joe guy. Are you and it was a hundred percent Zion Bark got? There was one car one bark promotes the time she was lying on a log beneath no, I mean I'm gonna be and you too here, there's problems on many sides. Emily shouldn't have done that with the post, my tat many side, and we thought it is my wish your own petard, but I was not hosting my own, but I visited my picard was throw but the enemy and detonated pry properly. We get very close to what nothing we make an assessment
I know a retard is tired, I believe, is a kind of explosive. You can be any new that hoisted by you blew yourself up again. You come for the conservation of my life. You stay for the gaiters now gave were cutting all this work I don't even know it's. What are we talking about post rates, you download potentates code crooked, hundred dollars and Israel realer, that's ridiculous. I dont even know Tom is talking about dealing with the angel most need all time. One barked the best behave dog use posts made you two hundred dollars cook it pundits great dont use boilers. I regretted the one that happened, and I apologise during lavender limit Michel there to do that to barks these two spoilers. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? No, there was no guys pose a real easy to kick. I don't think there was,
post May hundred dollars. We as the current cricket the plug. Today we have politicos Alianza Johnson thanks for joining US banker. Aerial. So, aside about our friends, Steve ban it, a friend of yours, a good friend of the pod he'll, be launching a pipe with us and so did Ben and create the from bandwagon, or did he do? bonnet after the primary and it has been a debate of is that between trumpet ban and some other people. But what are your thoughts on this from your important? I think
be there really. But what I do think is that a bright barred ban as a group, an audience and then a group of voters that became tromp voters and he very effectively turn them into a pretty potent political force. So in the years before, Tromp wants his campaign. In June when he fifteen ban in and bright barred were launching and I free trade, missives and weeding the immigration restriction is movement and there were sort of a triangle outside of the Fox NEWS, ECHO Chamber, that consisted of bright barred, news Laura radio show and the office of then Senator Jeff Sessions, and it really created a large audience that turned into a political force. I think most visibly with the defeat then, House Majority leader, air, can't- and I think that
Is the moment when Republicans republican lawmakers realise that they had to take these political views seriously, both on both the aunt I free trade than to man and this protectionist sentiment and immigration restriction is among. These views had been had seemed like. Our men of both, I think the Republican Party and the Democratic Party constituency, and they were dismissed the mean call Ryan, led immigrant immigration reform on the right Mitch Mcconnell. I think you'll probably favors it or is indifferent to it, but they realize we handle was defeated that they really had to take this considered. Seriously and of course it it really weird and tired when Trump ran for president and blue, all of the other candidates out of the water. So I would say that Trump having Mock, Mitt Romney for being mean or having a mean attitude towards immigrants, really ran to the front.
The parade. The ban and created none, the less. I do think you think trumpet been consistent in terms of his views on trade, so these are very real views, but and had done a lot of work in terms of creating and shoring up a movement before Tromp decided to jump into politics. The payments left when the door, someone from bright bird tweeted war I believe, was the salt we'd he's talking and how we build the machine, and now he's got that enough back at war with the to fight for tromp or whatever. There's a lot of speculation that he is going to go back to the Mercer, his billionaire benefactors and build. You know a tv station that rival Fox NEWS. How much of this do you think is likely happen versus the bluster span of a man who does God booted out of a job after seven months or eight months and humiliated.
There. I shant ban in in that. I think that there is not going to be all that much difference in what he does outside the White House, verses what he was doing inside the White House. I think just like he was attacking Commissioner in a vodka tramp and dairy cows in the so called global it from inside the white out, we'll do the exact same thing outside the White House. Maybe he will launch a rival tv network to fuck, but it does, of course that comes in Wait when Fox NEWS is its wailing and I'm not sure that there is already in some sort of an opening for that. But in many ways I think, there's a there's a big misconception when it comes to tromp dead, his head is sorted. It battle field where the extremism,
one hand and the global it through the moderates do battle and on each issue, one side or another wins out. I think it's important for people to realise that the president has political instincts. He has views on certain issues on parents, climate court, for example, people called it a wind receive ban in, but I really think there was about you one to five percent chance with the president was gonna get out of that are really wasn. Win, foresees ban, and it was this an issue on which they happened to see eye to eye, and so I am sceptical that Stephen and will really do all that much more damage quota, unquote or by some sort of huge war paralleled war outside of the White House. I really feel more as a continuing that he'll be more public in terms of his attacks on his former colleague now that he's outside than he was when he was on the inside sue. I ve been a lot of talk about these in fighting between the globalist and ban and obviously an and has been cut.
Just as the moderates first more extreme right there likes even though our bad and who in over not whatever whose ascendant who's up is that whatever, but there's also, you know that like a little bit a new one and that there is also a divide between Batman and mainstream Republicans right. That ban and takes up more, almost democratic line on things like infrastructure? Where do you see that divide playing out between, like the Fox NEWS, Republicans or the Paul Ryan, Republicans and Steve Ban and like where it is how to daylight play out now. Is it really the question in many ways, I think Fox NEWS had drifted more towards the ban in wing and in that sense it certainly Roger ales. Let it that way, because he was a champion of Trump and the trumps candidacy, though he patio and ongoing
Rivalry with and did not like the ban in, but you know the main stream republican Party, I think the rank and file favour immigration reform. It remains a free trade party, but I think trumps candidacy tromp brought many voters, formerly democratic voters, blue collar whites really into the Republican Party, who are sceptical of free trade and who care much more, for example, about limit immigration building a wall on the southern border than they do about reforming entitlements? And when you think of Paul Ryan, who really has been the darling of the republican donor, clad? He doesn't care about immigration without I mean you guys are Prime served familiar with the add that during the Obama administration portrayed Paul and throwing a grannie off a cliff in a wheelchair side. The way I try to characterize it,
My mind is Paul Ryan stand for you know what health care and more immigration trump stands for exactly the opposite, which is more health care, despite what he did on health care. I don't think he cares about it all that much. But you know more health care, less immigration. He doesn't care about entitlement reform. He campaigned against performing entitlement, but he who cares a whole lot about borders, culture and so on. So these two things are at odds, and I think that is why there is a tremendous amount of disunity and debate in the party in the way that that I dont think its clear, which way the party will go. Though Trump stands the top the party right now, and I think that's why they're so much disunity and debate within the party. I dont think the democratic parties is united in any way, but I think that is that what the Republican Party grappling with right now he's interesting you so that about you. No more healthy unless immigration, because he certainly and pained and ban and wanted him to campaign? As
economic, populous deserve match the native ism right, but he hasn't livered on any of the economically populist. Priorities that you know, supposedly talked about in the campaign and he's of let Paul Ryan and a lot of the framework market conservatives just sort of run rough roughshod over him. Any rang the budget as a get exam rail. So do you think that the ban in types are concerned or think that he would be more. He would even more poetic effective in a better political position right now, if he had Things like an infrastructure play an or maybe not tried to dismantle Obama, care or protect, entitled or stuff. Like that, I tell you. I think I think you and see- and I think it probably include Paul Ryan and mature economies that are very puzzled. Why do you wear with health care rather than infrastructure, because I was a national matter
you right up until the election, and I remember the editors they're saying that they were totally pairs protracted star with immigration and Republicans, though their instinctively opposed to sort of a big infrastructure bill. They were basically ready to get behind something like that, because they did think it was something that would get the Trump presidency off on the right foot and Paul. You know Paul Ryan and Ms Mcdonald and talked about essentially giving the President six month grace period. And if it does seem like they sort of wandered that- and I remember that there being a lotta park in Nassau view about how this election had revealed, that republic in conservative
right of centre? Voters are much less economic we or fiscally conservative. Then they once thought and a bit more though surely or culturally conservative, particularly on the issue of immigration, which is the opposite of the way that traditionally republican candidates had can paint campaign. You think it m is being kind of afraid to touch social issues lean publicly republican leadership, but not afraid to say that they're gonna cut your taxes, stepping back a little bit about the future. The parties have been your time in national review and where the pizza The weakened by Alex Brain that made me nervous. He pointed out that a lot of these individuals you're, seeing at in Charlottesville are the so called out. Right are in members of college Republicans one was the head of the colored funding its at least a member of it and that they are Publican parties struggling among the millennial generation in his point, is some of these folks,
are going to be the future leaders of the party and are likely to pulled the party to the right. Do you think that there's truth to them is that something to be concerned about going forward for the country for the party. I dont think it clear at all where the party gonna go, and I think there is a real at thought. Leadership in the party like when you look at their was reform a con movement. It obviously still exist, but that was something that on the front pages of the New York Times that I remember there being is gay pride. Ten thousand word New York Times magazine story about it. That seems not to have taken hold at all. If they have no traction in in the tree,
wait out than the formerly elite journals conserve? The conservative movement, like like National Review in the weekly standard and the Wall Street Journal editorial paid, seem to have been totally margin. I've by the Trump presidency in favour of the bright parts of the world which now enjoy them directly the power that say a National Review Wall Street Journal editorial page used to enjoy, but they don't seem at all to be capitalizing on that. So it is not clear to me. What's gonna replace you know what was part of the William at Berkeley Junior, you know fine of conservative thought going forward
Am I do that? You know, I don't think it's about old people are young people or anything like that. They're just seems to me to be an enormous vacuum in terms of thinking on the right in terms of what conservative foreign policy to help care really brought to light, and I dont think Trump was wrong to be frustrated with Mitch Mcconnell when he said that seven years out to get a plan- and there isn't one on my dad. But you know an absence of thinking around healthcare policy or at the very week I'm because there there were a lot of plans out there, but an act of failure of republican lawmakers to take humph and therewith, and I think I think it's fair to say, is an intellectual home for never Trumpery, even if there are people that right there that right in favour of jumper defend tromp. I believe you see two different assaults on intellectual conservatives. Anything at all, tromp and therewith- and I think I think, fair to say, is an intellectual home for never Trumpery, even if there are people that right there that right in favour of trump or defend tromp, I believe you see
you different assaults on intellectual conservatives. Anything it's one from the left and one from the right from the right there is. Obviously we see part. We see the rise of trump. We see the sense that this concern intellectual movement was ineffective if, whether they locked ideas or not, they clearly couldn't move the party to stop Donald Trump from happy and then from the left. I think there argument that goes something like this is just removing the shroud that this country can. Heard of intellectual ISM was always a cover for racism from the southern strategy to Willie Whore. Two Donald Trump today, and that that's good that's been exposed that there Wasn't much to this activity what do you say that criticism? I know that's a lot and I guess I'm getting too is what makes you hopeful inside the conservative movement right now. The criticism, I think, is a poor one true, that Buckley
cold, water and some of the load stars of conservatives and were wrong on civil rights. Goldwater, of course, in his in his business and his personal life was right on the issue, but in terms of public policy he was wrong, and when you see younger people worrying about it. My friend MAC Continuity runs the Washington Free, beginning, tried trinkets every report. You wrote a great column about teaching kids about conservative conservatism and other really disturbed to learn these things, and it is an obstacle to overcome when teaching nineteen twenty year olds. About this stuff, but what we stand, certainly in it, something that the people on the laughter this you know middle of the road journalists when writing about this have used to level this accusation. I think it remains as stain on the movement and something that Buckley, of course, candid and
publicly that he was wrong about and we know there are. Of course delighted. Democrats were wrong on the issue as well, but I don't think there's the Canon of Liberal thought that quite same as the Canon of conservative thought. So it does. It is easier to use as a market against the movement, so it I think you're you're right in that sense, however, I just don't see any content, It is a pity because tromp is not particularly ideological. I don't see any continuity between is called unquote thinking and the people around him and thirdly, conservative movement, which I do think I had to say, like my tendencies, to think that I think conserve the Buckley era. Conservatism has run its course, and you know that there has to be something else.
Take its place at the right I, which I think it will be good for the country one way or another. I think it's good for the country to have to help people to go parties and their public and party is not healthy right now,. On that note. We will let you go. Thank you. He added Johnson for joining us in come back again. The cigar comes out, and, thank God I take her breakdown out a conservative needed. Ok, that's schoeffer today thank you, Aliona Johnson, from politico for joining us in Angola. The eclipse where you go above it likes to drag out that guy with a song bell. I do have one thing: we Ok, you do in the eye when we like to raise up great organizations that are doing important work. One we'd, like cyber today, is called sleeping giant check them out on Twitter or Facebook, at sleeping giant as LP
gee, underscore giants or something, but ever they do their informing advertisers when their actual unripe art and they re doing it for over ten months. That's because someone called programme attic, Fertilizing they'll even know their ads are up there without their knowledge. Basically, Hungary outright your accidently funding bigotry. So what You can do is follow them on twitter and, you can take screen shots of companies that are advertising on bright Bart and help share them with those companies they ve gotten? twenty five hundred advertisers to pull their ads from bright. Arts and starting this effort, and it's an important group as steed. Then it goes back into the mothership industry. Said double down on the hate, excellent One last thing: our old buddy informer. I'm a campaign and why does a lump Ronnie Show is running? City Council in New York City district to include these village Union Square Gramercy Park. Ronnie started is one of the first Obama field, organizers in Iowa. I would very Tommy way back in the day,
First and now he's one of the many Obama lambs running profit, so a running Ganem Ronnie. So anyway, the democratic primary New York City, three weeks away to say September, twelve close race go to showed outcome, make a donation help amount imitating ironic in tomorrow's interest in front of the pond in New York City incomes from scratch archives, and now we going to go. Try to catch the eclipse, goodbye.
Transcript generated on 2020-04-02.