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start looking into security system, sedate simply saved our complex crooked. When you go today, you can claim a free security camera that simply safe dotcom, slash cricket. Welcomed applied, save America, I'm John forever IBM driver and I've been roads. Look at this whether this cry over Ben roads is caused world US pod love it. I love on today Show Donald Trump stem people. He'll be president again in August, as his former national security adviser calls for a military coup, Republicans continue their coordinated assault on voting rights and Democrats when big in New Mexico special action, then,

Stacy. Abrams is here to talk about the fight for democracy. Her latest book and more big show. First Ben. You have written a second book that makes you too for That makes two for you too, for Dan and a bunch of tweets for me. That's what I think Europe, but by John. If you, if you add up the total word count of your tweets, you might have a book and the fact that even more depressing Your new book is called after the file being American in the world we ve made. It is incredibly timely, compelling beautifully written, but why don't you was all about why you wrote it. Why did it's kind of Thursday, Pierre say book. You know, as I was kind of pummelled after the twenty six election, like you guys trying to make sense of it, and I realized I could Figure was tapping in America by looking at it from the outside it in My data, you ve ever had a challenge, your family or something I'm sifted guest up out of it, and I went to. Germany

one of these trips and I met with a young hungarian activist whose opposing Victor Orban there, whose like their autocratic, prime minister of Hungry and I like hey, how did you guys go from being a democracy to an autocracy and about a decade. and he's equal, that's easy Orban got elected and a right wing populist backlash to the financial crisis. He read through the parliamentary districts to try just party in power change the voting laws to make it easier for his supporters to vote enriched bunch. he's? U finance? Is politics bought up the media and created a really a right wing, propaganda machine packed the courts with rightwing judges and wrapped up in a nationalist, bow of US forces. Then you asked the true Hungarians, then is deliberately Aids is immigrants, its Muslims, stored shores and in talking and I'm thinking like. Let's Yait like Canada, last decade of my life and in It started from this premise of like theirs is trend globally of demand.

Z, supping away- and I I talked to Hong Kong protesters- attacked the Russians, like a lexicon of all, need a prudent chief opponent. I talk these young activists in Hungary and really it's a personal book. It's kind of my journey through the expense of having lost power and looking at power from the outside in and trying to figure out how America helps. This world and why we need to do about it yet and it look, I think it's just it's fantastic as you read it, it's both alarming and comforting. It like alarming, because what's been happening here, has happened with even more devastating consequences in other parts of the world, but also comforting, knowing that sort of different countries and societies are going through the same thing we are and that there are people, their activists, specially young activists who are trying to fight. sort of autocratic rulers and governments, and I think, a lot of inspiration and too little to get away yeah there

and now I'm gonna get a compliment you hold on this work. If it is a, I have read it. It is an amazing book say, and this is the one downside for me personally- is it so beautifully written that it literally gave me writers bought for four days so? Well, I I you know, look at it did the point that I appreciate that, and I I I like this, but more than my memory, because I really take a lot more time on the writing, but I, he also was getting at. I discovered John, what you? U referenced, which is actually not unlike this is not just me complementing you guys. Other countries, yo, you guys build this community after the twin. Sixteen watch inviting people word is happy to figure out that there are other people who thought things worse, fucked up as data and wanted to do something about. It that was kind of the feeling I had you know. There's something hopeful and the fact that the people everywhere around the world

our kind of dealing with the same stuff. You know the same nationalist playbook. This aim disinformation and surveillance machinery and their finding different ways to fight back, and we all need to learn from each other and what I really found anything more personal, and I thought when I started this: is people also just trying to forget their identity? in this world that doesn't make a lot of sense, and you know I do, made the subtitle being american and where we make, is what we to forget us who we are ass, Americans and in try going to land on. That is something that our our former boss, is also character in the book. I think would subscribe to where a multiracial, multi ethnic democracy, there doesn't always live up to the stores you tell about ourselves, but Being American is about like doing the work during the war pursuing what we are not yet and If we can do that, then we can get over other the goons and creeps it. We're gonna talk about the past. Today. Remember remember that in a few Obama speeches that thing

so I'm going to I'm. I'm gonna play Tommy's role since he's on vacation the person currently at the top of the New York Times, Nonfiction bestseller is Bill O Reilly. No one wants to see that it whatever has to do, is go by after the fall today and we're gonna help Ben knock him off Tommy. that would have made up that, like Don Junior, has a new book out. That's on the charts which the are true but everyone I could find right now is Billow Riley, the most loathsome rightwing figure who has a book on the tribes, but that should be enough for all of you to go by after the pop yeah he's killing somebody else's weaken, memories, always killing. Somebody here that lets the new so at once again we're living in two wildly different realities. Now, in one reality job I met with report considered or showing more capital on Wednesday to see if they could hash out by partisan infrastructure deal, and both parties said they were encouraged by their constructive negotiations is like normal PA tax world in the other reality

your times is Maggie Haber. Men reported the Donald Trump is telling people he expects to be reinstated as president by August in this news came just a few days after transformer national security adviser, Michael Flynn was asked, current events in Dallas. Why something like the military coup in Myanmar couldn't happen here in the United States. Here's what he set out on a large one Madame, are kept happen here. No reason! No reason, and just in case you attempted to write that offers an isolated bit of lunacy CNN. your a number of trump supporters who all pair did the same military coup fantasies. They can be found all over Cuban on message. Boards ticklish, Why, then, is just like a puppet president, either

whatever is our charge instead of you, like my mind, what's happening my mind, the military's during their own investigation and at the right time, they're gonna be restoring the republic with job as president to govern rejoining alleging. Many of us would like to say that perhaps like to see the light was stolen from very cool, so Flint, Flynn later said he was misquoted, sure right now: but regardless we get trumpet he's heading back to the way does this summer, which is apparently what the my pillow ceo and his old lawyer Sidney Power, telling him we growing number of republican voters who are the very least coup curious, a new pull out this week from the public religion. Research institute shows that Cuba is now is popular as some major religions, and that fifteen percent of Americans believe that people may have to resort to violence to restore the country's rightful order Ben

You spend a lot of time in Myanmar. You ve just written a book about the rise of Otto, governments all over the world. How worried should we be about all this great John. I mean look, you first Michael funds and I've got a lot about because he does speak too, and I read about this in my book like this was dying of mindset started out, as this war on terror and fund was at the forefront as a guys you notice after they were obsessed with radical Islam. Financing of last. One year's is how the targets of just comfortably shifted. You know Radical Islam, then it's a black president and his kind it is a man and now its american democracy itself, and I think that your first of all, let us be clear for small world or correction- is than men Marts Myanmar, but this is their killing people. They there there shooting live fire. People

streets. I have friends who I was and touch with and signal who had two like flee to the thai border to get out of the country. So this is like some very serious shattered about and use why be concerned? You know it's not I think there can be military coup in August, although we, it's bad August. You know when we were in an office sometimes you, you lay down an insane marker like that, so that you know the softer crew voters, suppression laws and gonna rigging the system to favour majority rule in this country is is like beyond the spectrum. Not quite is totally bachelet insane as the military coup. Nothing, that's why flint but that's a dynamic you seen in other places where autocracy takes hold is no Orban has done this in Hungary ride you, you can't threatened much more aggressive. Take over a thing, and then suddenly your slow motion, strangling of democracy, looks less Poland, and that's part of what I think we have to be on guard about? Did what,

A guy? I resigned myself when I see stories like this, like Is it I don't want to have this sort of reason? didn't see twitter over reaction and also scare people every time. I see news like this, but at the same time we all live through a fucking attack on the. U S, capital after the president lost an election, tried to steal it and then, sixth his supporters on Congress, look like. I think it is something to be alarmed about about by Renault, you think we live in a world where everyone of reacts to everything and it's easy to then outright dismay. That over reaction as just a typical online panic porn that we hear so much about So suppose I find it easier to so like restate the facts to see how worried about them we should base. Here we have a retired general former top aid to the defeated president.

cited a violent insurrection in the capital calling for a military coup at a conference in support of a movement designated a domestic terror threat by. If the that seems concern is bad, it sounds bad when you put em like inventors, the concern is that the military is going to overthrow the government and install that'll trumpet August. concern. As these people who were in the CNN, clip you put or others are going to take the signal and act out violently violet people for reasons of violent things, and we have? This is not just what happened? The capital, which is the most recent and most evocative example of how these, dangerous conspiracy theories translate into real by violence. You have the pipe bought, the guy who sent the pipe oxen eighteen to the big transporters and into all of trumps favorite twitter targets you The guy who took the thing was an assault rifle to come at pizza Ray NBC. That was at the centre of the absurd pizza gay conspiracy and so that when you read the indictment of the oath keepers for their activities,

on January, sex they were preparing. To the oath. Yours is a right, is a violent right wing militia movement, but they were preparing to step in one's trump, The insurrection act to act, military ways you take over government people, this to this end. They act on it and it is dangerous and we should not it's not. We not all this and assume that governs gonna get taken over, but we should recognise that their that words matter and words dangerous worrisome, dangerous people really matter alot yeah, I would also say to you know: maybe he vermin reports this like Trump reinstatement thing, but you people get mad on twitter for some ridiculous reason. I guess there, like they don't think that Maggie should be reporting this. They want to pretend it's not true. They think that if Maggie doesn't report it, then it's not true right. The Washington Post confirmed her reporting Charles Cook, who is now

not even a never Trump Republican, like a real Republican who has at times been very favourable towards Trump, just wrote this piece in the national view where he said you know everyone's been telling me this. I've heard this trump really expects to be reinstated in August, and not only does he expect that, but he now hopes that that this belief that he should be reinstated is the litmus test for all the care. It's that he may endorse in twenty twenty two, and this is how it also shapes the entire republican Party right that could put down a marker for the crazy supporters out there that that may act on this, like that, you guys were saying, but also republican candidates. Now this is the party line that they have to tow if they hope to win a primary. So now you have the entire republican infrastructure being like you're, not only lose the election stolen, but we should get this guy back in office and that's when that's how things Barcelona control. You know yeah. I remember it makes me think, John of like when we were in office

eleven and twelve and you'd see these poles of Republicans. It said, like a majority Republican sought, Brok Obama wasn't born the United States. It was easy to kind of laugh at that, but then you that economic of people living in a totally alternative reality led to a birth or become the Republic of Armenia and unprecedented states right and we haven't done enough. your soul searching in this country. The fact that, like such these people, disagree with us, it is that they believe things that are the opposite of the tree, then, in and eye young person, Hong Kong described to me the essence of the Chinese. Total turn is amiss it centrally. They ask you did to point at a deer and call it a horse that the goal is to get people to live in alternate reality, because once you ve done that you control the. You know in unwinding that particular as those

we're getting elected to the? U S, Congress he's gonna, make everything else we have to do harder and its can make each election a kind of excess central election for american democracy, because you don't want those people to get their hands on the lovers of power. They ask you if you were in the White House right now, if we were all back in the White House- and this was happening like what can the by them ministration do about like a growing threat of extremism that happens to involve a former president states like there's, does not playbook for this walk Bob. Does data like we re having meetings with De H, ass, the permanent security endear J is it's like. I don't even know what you do. One thing and then in I've talked about this. You know that you haven't heard much from the buying people on yet is what their approaches gonna be to social media, and you know it's all well and good for for twitter to kind of Austria size Trump to his his blog, but the algorithm of Facebook is still Turbo chow.

Jeanne disinformation and everybody's feeds on a daily basis and in the regulation that is necessary to affect those algorithms and start to kind of detoxify american discourse. That's one thing, definitely thing, but that's one thing that I'm I've been surprised to hear so little about the Sport Year Oak question for you, then you know one thing we should mention here that trumps blog, which Ben just mentioned, is dead. After just twenty nine days are IP, a trumpet visor told I suppose that the former president didn't like that it was being box, is a loser, forgetting fewer visitors than the pet Adoption service pathfinder. The idea that he like that bit that suddenly, the blog can be marked as a loser, the blog as a loser. I thought was very funny presented a laugh about this, but there's a question here. What does it say that Trump was banned from all social media sites launched a blog, one visited lost most of his free media.

Bridge and is still so popular within the Republican Party, that he's not only leading the twenty twenty four primary poles he's got supporters who want to reinstall him in a military coup I mean What I miss the opportunity to take some person, all maybe petty joy, Donald Trump failing at blocking like that, I find that enjoyable. I do think he's underestimated amount of traffic that someday capet finer dot com would get people like pets that there may be willing tromp. So that's fine, like giving young people start a substantial if private problem way I think there are some there is some serious elements of this that we ought to think about pretty seriously it's fun to laugh at and I'm not denying anyone funded from suspects ever buy. It is a massive indictment.

Facebook in particular, because their argument always is it. This is the content. People want Burgess serving it up to you, but here you have tromp. Has content he's all face and no one is going to get it, and so, with that show Is that it's not that people are cut phase. We give you what they want. Facebook is giving people something pretty dangerous if they think they. And that has had a very alarming radicalizing effect on the american people in the same can be said for deferred twitter to a lesser extent, based on other hundreds of work by Having given the more concerning thing, is the entire understanding of trumps rise, the political powers that he is this? massive celebrity with this big business cried, who ended Billy to dominate the pitiful conversation that no one else can have. There's been a sort of comfort for Democrats in media types that all these chow One of these do not have that ability. Tom, cotton, TED crew. Josh Holly D just losers. There, like generic mayonnaise versions of Trump and doesnt,

compared in a world of favouring a world famous dsl peace solely in thy literally forgot. My body I forgot he was a person existed ad, this represents is like well, if try. If we defeat tromp or Trump goes away or go to jail than this will be fine, because no one else can do what he did Would you be so scary to your point? Jain is that he is banned from sure media other than a handful of Phone calls with Maria Barter Romo. He is absent for media, yet his power and control of the Republic, party is stronger than it was before we're suggested, is not the leader of the movement. He just a vessel for a very powerful movement. exists and will persist after he's goin. I do think that that should force everyone and to recognise that what we're dealing with here is not

trumpets a structural problem with an american politics that Trump benefited from. He didn't create. Why? I also think that it is evidence that the more evidence that there is a sort of closed right wing information ecosystem that Donald Trump both benefited from and helped build as well and Ben. You talk about this in the book to that, like some of these Autocrat. It's not the pages you know, went over and took control of the of the media on their own and said that everything's gonna, be state, run media now like some of what they Did with similar to how the conservative media infrastructure has been built here in the United States like a little more gradual than you might think, yeah I mean a prudent, really perfected, this playbook and it starts. With you know his cronies, buying up tv stations and the like, but it really didn't Tipp into this more dangerous and burial and control that he has ever society there until he realized how much you could just flow.

Social media and manipulate the algorithm I mean this is intentional. People know that they can kind of turbocharging, narratives and conspiracy theories, a member talking to it, and if only you know, we Before and tragically, he was poisoned and then imprisoned over the course of last summer. In here, explain to me like how how comprehensive this was in that year, There are, of course, trolls it were making out to be a criminal and making them out to be an enemy of the russian people. there is also a huge conspiracy theory that in the Bali was a double agent and he was working for the efforts. Be you're the russian intelligence outlet in and this enraged have openly, because one of the things that I would argue- and this conspiracy there is what is really an opponent of of prudence- you'd be dead by now, Novotny Psych, hey guys, like I'm, so does that mean I'm a double agent, but it speaks to that. The fact that these these are in part, the out

them's prioritizing sensationalism, but like this is by design, and I don't think that's a conspiracy theory here. I think look at your non clearly there's an effort to kind of turbocharging conspiracy theory and shape the mines of unwitting people consuming that information, and that's why I do think this is the kind of thing that requires a policy rests once you know just sitting back and hoping that Facebook solves is cause they ve got a pr problem is clearly not sufficient. so some republicans are quite ready to call for a military coup. Fuckin rhinos they're trying to win the next election, the old fashioned way by making it harder for Democrats to vote. That's happening in Texas, where the Republicans voter suppression legislation was temporarily stop. This week, when democratic State House walked out of the chamber, which denied Republicans Corpsman prevented a vote in the bill. Governor Gregg Abbot responded by threatening to cut the entire legislatures funding, and he said that I'll call a special session to revive the bill. Democrats. Have they HOPI episode, serve

a wake up call to their colleagues in Washington to pass before the people act. Here's what state representative, Tray Martinez Fisher had to say to Joe Mansion down here in taxes we say when times get tough its target a cowboy up, and so, with all due respect that s international, please cowboy. President, by an also had a message for both mentioned encased in cinema. During his remarks to commemorate the hundredth anniversary of the tells a massacre, though his dig with a bit more subtle Here. All the books on tv say why don't buying get this done? Well is by nobody has a majority of effectively for votes in the house in tying Senate with two members of the Senate, who both more my republic. so the president also said that he is putting vice president commonly Harris in charge of voting rights and that he'll quote fight like hacked to ensure the passage of before the people act question Dan. Will any of this make a difference to Joe Mansion, Kirsten Cinema or any of the other filibuster, loving

critics senators who are hiding behind your mentioning Pearson Cinema. Say their names John, I dont know disabled with every story. Jean Janine scenes upset than John Testers, not sure than the two democratic senators Delaware, that your eventually gonna run against they're out there we were or about both of them photo run against both have to run again tells them is gonna, take oppose it is this: how much I love the Senate and Delaware? our ideological, our back off. We don't know right, I was very, these two here Biden talk about this and say is gonna fight like heck for it. I was I'm glad that he has put come Harrison charge its. We know from our time there that its always better when there is one person in charge of a big project because recommends a vice President Biden. Did this a bunch of Obama whether as on gun safety after Newtown the recovery?

Iraq policy in the first term, because can bring to bear the of their entire office on this project and becomes a top priority, which is sometimes it's hard in the day to day. Crisis management through the President must deal with. So that's very good. I dont know whether it's going to make a difference. It may just be that german Shanna cares and set him up, and the unnamed others would prefer to preserve the filibuster than save democracy, and that nothing will change their mind, but we don't know that and That is why we need there is a were on the clock. Now we have such Numerous other gonna bring up before the people ACT s wine in June and I think, has come about all of us, particularly Joe Biden calmly, Harris Church humour to make it as uncomfortable as fucking possible for the people who may stand my office right like if you, if you have your decision, is that the Philippines or is so important as Curzon Cinemas. So annoyingly said, standing

Texas the sickly ground zero for democracy rigging. Right now said it. Its extol the version for bus or if they think that is so important than they should, they should feel pain so that political pain for doing that right is should be uncomfortable when they go to them. their state and a district should be a comfortable when they draw on tv, all the other democratic centres that there should be uncomfortable in the lunch line at the Senate. You see your majesty hears and Cinema talked him about this. Put pressure on because I do think that this is one of those times in history that people remember for decades. When I look back This time I know, as I wish people thought it was the american rescue plan that maybe the thing is the infringement by think it'll be what what we did at this moment to protect your domain She has now been talks about how he wants to be. I can Sdr style, President Borrell, in a grey area. crisis are no use to put in place economic change and that that sort of you has informed. I think, a lot of his very, very progressive policy choices,

in other words yard. That's a robot offices elbow J, because, right now the crisis work dealing with is Democrat, in all those other things that Joe Biden wants to address, that are very real right, echoed growing economic Anna. Quality, healthcare, crisis, poverty, hunger, that none of that can happen if we don't fix our democracy, and so this is the thing, and I hope he talks about it every day. between now and the moment when it went either happens or its too late. I hope he consternation every day, because European Cinema Everyday hobby goes to their states. It puts pressure on them, are tackled, curse, incentive in Arizona is it this is. It ran oversight about apologies, no and those that were what do you guys think the conversation the White House was like that led by to include that subtle dig, it did so. It bent it sounded like a line that we would have definitely given to obey. My mental bomber would have liked to make a little subtle dig at them, and then you know we hear from from people in Washington that, like the senators hate when Obama

sure is that Burma very, I was very unbind to do that. I was happy. He did yeah I mean yeah you're right I mean it's kind of language would be incredibly parsed. Other people can decide whether we should like people whether we should be like L, B, Jane and lean over them in point fingers. I think when you get the appointment of combo over there to take on this responsibility combined with this new shift in language. Yet It's a good awareness on their part that, as Dan is pointed out, you nobody looks back two thousand nine and says well Obamacare Dental but more, but for four MAX bokkis right I mean but remember whether not Joe Biden got this done fair or not, and the only the answer, given the stakes involved is to be remembered comprehensive in what you're doing, because again,

looking having looked at how parties it don't have majority support, entrenched themselves and in hold on to power, despite that, what's happening, subtle like Taxes like what what we're looking on the map- and I know this from being a Navid Listenin to Thursday pod, but, like game of american politics. Are these states Georgia, North Carolina, Texas, Florida that the question is? Can Democrats star winning these states to account for the fact that their losing some states in the upper Midwest. So it's no coincidence, that the most intense voters, suppression efforts, including efforts that would allow for election results to literally be overturned by republican elected officials, are taking place in those states. And you have to deal with that through using your megaphone as dance at its best. You can and connecting the kind of top down campaign that only a present and vice present can lead with the kind of bottom up efforts that you're gonna talk about with Stacy Abrams, it's like an all hands on deck moment here: injustice,

it looks hard and difficult is Krysten Sinema, Joe Manchin. Look, stubborn, isn't a reason to kind of throw up your hands and say: okay, we're going to move on the infrastructure like this is the whole ball game here and they have to throw everything they have at it, and I think this was the first step in probably an escalation. we have a bit of a campaign run out of the White House? That is the top down and bottom up? that's right, puts it Mary. brought you buy new, think about you. Everything you ve ever learned about getting healthy, does lotta contradictory information at their and things like that old fashion. Food pyramid aren't much help. You know. We feel that the food pair, I can't stand it her new. It's not what you just did he ever cool, but about how you eat in general, going on vision- tell youngsters to eat a loaf of bread. Terrible Noone teaches you about eating, but you cravings, but

build new habits. You can did your misconceptions: get smart about food in the choices you make, in psychology to teach you how to eat. You can accomplish your personal health goals and stick with them long term, because you don't need rules to lose maybe, but I may be the last swimming point of my ass. He ever coop, it might have been, are a different one of the surgeons general, then you might have been what I asked elders even goes guys. I thought I was before Joscelyn elders. None are now the food pyramid is right smack in the nineties It's actually a quintessential I'm coming around to universal theory of the ninety ninety John and it's that it applies to basically all culture, which is a bunch of people convince themselves that they were the objective one Looking back on history, which was now over and oh there, Rather they they were. You think there were little off the law on that yeah because of what's come since any with action.

With new pick, the health costs the right for you. A new personalize await last program to help your aspirations become reality, that's an original theory by the way, and in others it may that observation for the record. I think I think you should trade market so there's some personal experience that they're asking for here here like new its helps. You understand cravings known how to shop, knowing that no food is bad we would like to call certain foods bad timing. It's like come the waiting to me, though, in numerous helpful is like there's, this old saying, think it's a good tickets. They about how, if you like, spend a hundred pounds and made a hundred one pounds. You are an upstanding member of society, but if you were fuse, a hundred one pounds and only made a hundred pounds. You wanna debtors, prison and I think with like with food. Sometimes it so hard because it's like, if you have

humor calories, everyday, the new Bern. You gain weight. If you have a few less you lose weight over time and it's like noon can help you keep track of like the patterns. Cuz, it's like the patterns, overtime at add up a new helps. You figure that out and again you know what that is. That's not rules, that's, not a large moons cognitive behavioral approach means you're, not just those in what you're building the habits. We need to keep it off numerous forgiving, because your human news not going to cancel you, because you have today You'll be back. Let's say you were on the bed, of a ball and say Saint Louis Missouri, and you really picked out before you went to your dance down the aisle by a creeping avail. Numeral, forgive you. I had I had no idea what everyone is talking about. I've been off to another day. I saw training teller back. I didn't and I don't get involved and then I can then I went down around all I'd. Rather, we wish. There's a science to getting healthier. It's called Numa sign up your trial today at noon and oh, oh, am dotcom. Such crooked learn

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Aren't we have some good news on Tuesday Democrats want a landslide victory in New Mexico special action to fill the, how seat of Interior Secretary Deb HOLLAND. The win itself was expected, but the margin was now A democratic state representative, Melanie Stansbury, beat republican states enter remark moors by twenty five points in a suburban Albuquerque district, the Joe Biden, one by twenty three points and Deb Hollan one by sixteen points, the New York Times had called the race, a quote: crucial test of the republican focus on crime. Since more effective. We re a one issue campaign against Stansbury, in which he linked rising crime and Albuquerque to her past support for aid congressional proposal that would cut police funding and abolish ice, it didn't work

One possible reason is that stands bury massively outspent moors with ads that featured police officers. Talking about how much public safety funding she helped bring to Albuquerque Dan. What, if anything, can this special action tell us about the political environment in the by dinner? It is very easy to over read these special actions and parties tend to dismiss the monthly underperform and tell the ones they over performed by in a world where you have to take every pole with, like a train load of salts ape social action is an actual piece of related to look at and in that sense, democratically feel very encouraged. It is one where this was not a mark. More who was republican candidate was not some sort of like Magda. Reject you slip through in a low turnout. Primary was a very good candidate. I believe Europe scented Abiden district addition by one in New Mexico and the fact that Stansbury exceeded Biden Margin is us.

And the Democrats stay engaged in there somewhere a warning signs Republicans that at least in this district on this day, their me your challenge, Republicans running without Trump on the ballot as they saw in twenty eight. The question I have is, What we ve seen over the last couple years is just polarization increase and intensify, and I start to wonder. If you know some of this over performance as time goes on, like blue districts are just going to get bluer red districts are going to get redder and the fight is still you know. What's really gonna tell us about the twenty twenty two mid terms or the twenty four presidential? Are these districts, where it's just a lot closer and more competitive? And it's really hard to draw too many conclusions from a blue district like this or you know a couple weeks ago, a month ago we were talking about that sort of rhetoric

district in Texas, that the Republicans sort of one big on some just as wondering what would you think about that as it may? I am sure you are familiar with the dynamic of the spot cast and I recognize you had a very significant birthday this week. So maybe your mentalities, change by your half full or half empty As ever, going to switch that I'm cool with images like Gimme, a heads up just more pessimistic, invisible knowingly starting to turning? Forty is hard. It's hard like getting. I think that dynamic helps us in a bunch of because it Secondly, like oh, the suburban districts will the suburban voters, who turned out for Joe Biden and voted against Donald Trump, who might have been former Republicans? Will they stay with us? My glasses full answer to that is: yes, they will, because those districts are becoming more polarized and thus more blue. I think on some of the other districts-

You're like a little more rural little more Ex urban ANG is gonna, be harder for us, and I think, once again, this is like trench warfare in a very closely divided country between red and blue. That's gonna keep these elections up for grabs, both the more competitive has ones. If we have competitive, has elections left and, of course, the National Popular Rover president. But we shall see so republicans are excited to run on rising crime rates, regardless you can imagine Trump and other candidates yeah about Democrat Run cities where immigrants are committing all kinds of crimes. That's gonna, be there there, their favorite attack Ben. Isn't this another page out of the authoritarian playbook that you ve seen in other countries really harping on crime and immigration and others, and and and has it has it worked in those places? Yeah I mean I was sick, even this in the previous discussion. You know so Victor Orban, who said, reaching laboratory. It's like looking in miniature at this global trend, including the Republican Party here

You know he has his anti immigrant, tough on crime message and what he does with media is you he'll, take one crime and in just blow it out on top Jane and blow it out in the cotton newspapers that reach people in rural areas and hungry and sometimes frankly, it's not even like a true cry like they just just just. mean lining fear, into communities where there really is an actually that much cry and rural hungry the really. That many immigrants, but it was to shape a kind of politics, a fear that turned his people out in a high profile in the book a young woman whose interests we thirty so much younger than you. Now, John, your friend, she has she. She started a political party with some friends. And they did two things- are really smart- that I think are instructed to us. The first is They were a single issue party out of the gate, anti corruption, the everybody kind of suspects or bond is corrupt, everybody suspects he's on the take and he wanted

hosting Olympics in Hungary, which everybody knew he would have done more prudent able to skim a few billion dollars off the top to enrich himself and his cronies- and they got a lot of time- with an anti corruption message which, by the way, is popular everywhere, including with Orban supporter right. So it's a reminder that sometimes- As you know, this is, as you guys talk about, don't forget to make Europe offensive message. It has the most traction these places and in here it's the same thing: it's corruption, its tax breaks for corporations in the wealthy, but then the next thing they did is they and very deliberately after they lost some elections in their first try. They went in all these rural places and they showed up. And they went door to door literally Imre. Like your end of the first reaction, I got. You guys are socialist your George Shores puppets because that conspiracy theories and hungry too, but they they ate into the support that debt whereby has in the reason Orban is actually politically vulnerable, is because of a very concerted effort to to drive a very negative comment.

don't corruption into start showing up in all these places, even if you're gonna lose the right in and I do think, There is no other way to do it. I mean Obama used to say to us. I remember him saying to me than others: and you're nice and twenty twelve, where he drew a big rally, and I was kind of the blue- do boosted people showing up indeed always go to some barbecue place- indeed shake every hand in the place and usually was like people will grumpy a medium and he's like look like every in that placing some be Anti Christ. But you know what it's like a few. I'm just gonna, say well actually like yeah beseems. good man or see as a good marriage. Maybe some those people will vote for em? Maybe they won't be spread the most. nefarious conspiracy theories about him and he's like that when the armor- I have you know it it's a reminder, like you, do too sharp and all these is that the only way to push back against the the diet of misinformation and disinformation people are being

yeah, and that, certainly you know about detect it stays Abrams, but that's the states, Abrams Playbook in Georgia right show up everywhere, talk to everyone and and don't leave anyone out dandy. Think that the New Mexico re shows that Democrats have finally found a way to rebut the defined the police attacks for these crime attacks could certainly stands bury. It least we don't Emmi. We know that they didn't hurt her or they didn't you. a margin that was bigger than buttons idle. I dont want to draw all the conclusions for this, but it seems pretty clear that advertising against it both responding to the attacks in insulating yourself from them is gonna, be one piece of a successful twenty strategy and what I thought was interesting and I watched a couple of thee Stansbury as which is, she made the

point the credentials yourselves all law enforcement, making a harder for someone to believe that she would want to abolish or defend the police in the most right wing for jar of sense of that term and then pivoting merely to it. Keep your opponent right, and so, if you don't do well on it, you don't play by. There said the roles as what we often talk about issue. You call it out you, cracked, the record in you and you move back to more for to sort of stronger territory in that's good. This is not going away by their think. Their several elements of this crime is going up in parts of the country at it. In Democrats need to a need to address it. Rhetorically and substantively. Second, the you know it's we always have to recognise. The Republicans are not focusing on crime against crimes going up. Crime is just one part of a decades. Our strategy to make my people more scared of non white people, a sort of their central political this add that's immigration. That's welfare! That's crime! That's all this! That's all business can be there, but it is

not some like right wing fever dream. I was. I was looking at pulling on crime this morning in preparation for this by guest, and I saw the sea a yacht oh, you got Paul which showed that America, more Americans raided crime as a very big problem, then the colonel Ferris race relations, the economy, political correctness and north written when you see that often you think it's gonna be nice. defy five Republicans and then dependence more closely the middle of the night or, if you Democrats, but in that pulse it was forty. Nine percent of all Americans found crime to be a very big problem. It was forty five percent of Democrats and This is something that our voters are also concerned about and we have to have responses to it that are not dismissal of the issue. We have to have progressive policy response and progressive messaging around it. diffuses the republican attack, but doesn't dismiss it in a way that makes our voters think we're out of touch with what is happening in their district

I will say also she did two things at once here in this campaign. She didn't completely disavow her vote for the brave act, which was this proposal push by black lives matter activists that would divert some police funding to the community and she talked a lot during the campaign about Rachel Justice. She didn't shy away from at either in the need for police reform, and yet she also had a bunch of ads with cops in them and talked about public safety and health. Public safety funding was important. She brought public safety funding to Albert Turkey to protect citizens. So she really tried to do two things at once and I dont imagined she would have wanted to run this campaign without the add with the cop in it or talk here about actually supported public safety funding.

But also she didn't shy away from talking about Rachel Justice and police reform, and she did she wasn't like some central democraticals I go now. I can't talk about that. Their attack me, so it is an interesting balance that she struck there, that I wonder if other candidates will will try to do this that will voters are smarter than most politicians, and certainly most political consultants think they are so you can be both right. You can have. Can about police conduct in what works accountability- and you want to be very clear about the structural racism in your community, ethically law enforcement and also be for funding that makes your community safer. You can do all of those things you can talk about it in a way that makes sense is not an either or, and sometimes we default into that, and so in kudos. Our campaign team for putting this office has very well, then I do think it is a model for some Democrats. It's gonna be harder, and this is not a, positive statement about american life in America, politics. But these attacks are always more vehement and more danger

when they are levied against black and brown candidates, and so you know that that is gonna come against a lot of these candidates and they're gonna have is and there I say one more thing about this, which is resources the resource We should not dismiss the the resource advantage. Here is that we, in some case in these houses where we lost Republicans for spending money and Democrats warrant on these attacks, and so the fact, and since we spent more than our opponent, is something we should just given the background that we haven't exactly. We shouldn't assume we figured out exactly how to do this, but that there's a maybe units or of the seeds of a strategy going forward. Or when we come back Stacy, Abrams pot,

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novel the number one New York Times bestseller, while justice sleeps Stacy Abrams, welcome back to the pot. Thank you for an enemy, So we were just talking about the coordinated Republican. tack on voting rights, I'll be honest I'm I'm sort of it right now about what to do Mansion and Kaerusson Cinema have ruled out getting rid of the filibuster mention has said no, filibuster carve out for voting rights, which is what you suggested, and even if there were no filibuster he's idiot actually support before the people act as written, which we can't pass without em. So how do we protect the right to vote? I begin with the past that people take positions based on the current environment and that the more we see evidence of

perfidy and malfeasance the more likely we are to see change. I believe that, as secretary of a former secretary of State, the Joe Mansion understands how fragile our democracy actually is without the rule of law to protect the most vulnerable voters and his ethos, which is to say that he wants to protect the voice of minorities and the seven it should extend to protecting the rights of minorities as american citizens. Part of we are seeing play out here is, shifting the narrative from one of this as Democrats, verses Republicans to one. this being Republicans verses, Americans. This is not partisanship. This is about citizenship and the more we can amplify and population evidence the proof of their intention. I think the more likely we are to actually see a shift in behavior. I can't say that for certain, but I know that give my time in the state legislature. There were more

That's where I was absolutely certain, or at least certainly. I should have been convinced that new movement was possible, but I spot happen now that, notwithstanding we still have to fight will we need to get to the place where we can get people on board- and that means really articulating the critical provisions of before the people ACT, which are essential That may mean that we can have everything we want in the for the people act but we must have enough to preserve access to the ballot and I think what we saw happen in Texas. What happens in Georgia? What happened in Florida? We haven't Arizona was about to happen no higher what happened in open, and in Kansas and in Iowa signal that this is not a limited issue. This is not a southern issue. This is not a black issue. This is us citizenship, democracy, issue and it is a continuation of the insurrection and I know The Senator Mansion and Senator Cinema have both signalled that they believe

That the insurrection was wrong and thus we should be holding them cannibal, and vining. The evidence necessary to demonstrate that a few disagreed with the attempt to dismantle are democracy on January six. You should disagree with this coordinated. On our democracy at the state level? Have you hadn't conversations with mansion or cinema about this time, not. Do you think you might? I would hope so, but part of my research stability is too makes that we as a nation, are speaking with one voice about this issue that we

move this beyond at a conversation of what happened in November, twenty twenty two conversational. What is going to happen to us in twenty thirty? If were twenty twenty two, twenty twenty four. If we do not address this triple assault on our democracy, you mentioned making sure that a final bill had the most critical provisions of of age are one of the four the public. What do you think are like them? We can't live without provisions in that bill, so I would start with what's happening at state level too, to signal so there three pieces. One is the anti voter provisions that are sleeping our country, and that means that we have to protect. Voters in right to access rights register the right to stay on the rolls their right to cast a ballot and the right to have those valets counted, so he registrant staking cast. Can you count? That means we to have automatic voter registration Cindy registration than we have to have it in early voting, no matter where you live, because we know

will have been growing. Cotton you haven't, can take off Tuesday in November to go on boat and we have to have no excuses absentee balloting, because the republic can intent. To limit voting to a single day unless you're infirm disable elderly or in the military, though, should not be the only xx. Since we make to a system that was put in place long before our common evolved before a nation about. So we have to push back against the anti voter provisions. The second wave of attack is against Elect workers themselves and we are seeing this play out in response to the horizon. it lies told about election workers and Michigan and in Georgia and in Arizona and and were these laws, are weakening their protections creasy their liability and putting them in her, his way by allowing more pull. Actors, meaning pull, intimidate us to come in and question their work without evidence or without knowledge, and then the third attack that happening is that

we are watching subversion of american demands see by allowing legislators, new people in power to over. In the outcome of elections mean texts as the bill that was stopped briefly. Unfortunately, it will come back in special session so that you try to overturn election without proof of fraud, which means that you Don't tell you if you just don't like the outcome and there can be those who pushed back see. That's not what it says exactly, but I'm a good enough lawyer and its immortal they ve done in Georgia, when laws are this poorest and when their this poorly written and this hidden from investigation, you know that Intention is to allow the unspoken to become the rule and when we can have our elections overturned by the bad actions of others. That is equally problematic right now, before the people addresses the anti voting provisions, their conversations about adding were protections in for election worker the separation of democracy, but those are the three pieces that way

an absolutely have to move. If we want to see sound elections having fort really interested in that last part, because I know a lot of people have pointed out that the current version of the fourteen people act doesn't include enough protections around elections aversion. Have you heard of what slave proposals anywhere. That would address that, whether it's you know us legislature overturning the election, whether it's the House of Representatives, whether it's a county board secretary of States off, is obviously Republicans are trying to plant trompe peep. when all of these offices. But how do we prevent against that? What what? What can we do to prevent election subversion? they're, not only trying to plant people in there actually trying to strip people power, what they did to secular state, Katy Hobbs and we ve seen vestiges of vessels when Republicans one recent elections go, they go in strip the constitutional officers, a power that had been people have enjoyed for or that these offices have old. Fort Ducky did not centuries. So what we know is that this They knew.

The new phenomenon, and so I dont think legislation has been introduced, but I have great faith that legislation will soon follow because we're just now this play out. Now we ve been warning about it for a while, but now that we actually see it happening when the new. We are when they heritage action. A fund for America acknowledges their intention. I think that finally said those that we need legislative actions, and my hope is that as this bill moves forward If amendments are allowed, that we will see the kind of amendments necessary to protect against what is happening at the state level. You know it's like performer how one of the more pernicious aspects of other suppression is that it makes people think this just isn't worth it. I might as well stay home if this round of voting directions becomes law, or at least have some of them become law. How do we get people to believe that their vote in twenty twenty two matters and will be countered by talking about? What's

happening now. As long as this is framed as Democrats, verses Republicans as progressive forces conservatives, it's a pox on all your house's, but when we fall in this for voters as a common nation about your right to be heard in the future. If you were unhappy with the response in your community to covert nineteen and you, I have to say the next election. This is gonna, be a problem. If Children didn't have access to the technology they needed to participate in remote learning the sky The board elections matter and these laws are not just about the presidential election. These laws once they become incorporated into our fabric, they affect every election and every facet of life, and so we ve got to talk about this as one an attack on the morrow. See and to an attack on commuted when european? There's a community that you will not have the right to make decisions. Without someone coming in and possibly overturning you're your choice.

regardless of where you stand on the political spectrum as a citizen, that is a subversion of democracy, and so I think the way we get people on board We do it we're trying to do through Stop Jim protein dot com, which is that we're talking about voter suppression every day, the more we talk about it. The more people realize this is a systematic attack on their it on their right to vote for communities of color. In particular, it's been a systemic issue, but that we have to faint frame this as a systematic tat. They can only be supported the same way. We took action in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one and that's why showing up in declaring what we walked speaking one in twenty two. What, if anything, would prevent you from being a candidate for governor of Georgia, Try about were in and out of another approach nicely time. Life locust right now is on making sure we have elections.

but I am also really focused on making sure that the work that I need to do doesn't get clouded by conversations about what I may want personally. This isn't this is it an all call and my responsibility as someone who is speaking about this issue is to be solely in senior we focused on how we make our democracy stronger, and so I'm not making any decisions about my personal, you investment, and they times Do you do about have a timeline, because I know that for the eighteen race it was June of this year the year before the race that you made the formal announcement that you run, I don't have time I will say this: it's very different way

wasn't. Seventy members, where I am now monster, is different and part of what I hope for is that we are building an infrastructure for Georgia and for the country that doesn't require that kind of advanced you behaviour. Luckily, the infrastructure we built in two thousand seventeen morphed into the infrastructure that became here fight. I do not intend to leverage it for any other purpose than to fight for democracy, but what I mean is that infrastructure that made it possible for more voters to be heard, which is what my campaign was rounded. It was grounded in turning out voters who had not been heard before as long as that work continues as long as we continue to amplify the voices of citizens, lift up the needs of residents and community members than that

Work is good and that work is being done and I've got some time to think about the rest. Can we no doubt about writing, for if you do so again but the other night and my wife. Emily was reading your latest novel, while justice sleeps and she had this Ike the expression on her face, and I was I do not like it and she said no, I love but I can barely respond to emails like how on earth do Stacy able to find time to write a novel while she's flipping Georgia, which I thought would be a good question to ask you like

Maybe you want to write this in the middle of everything else you're doing, and how do you find the time? When do you write in defence of everyone? I wrote this book actually a decade ago: Anna, not getting you want to buy it because they thought that there is no. That was absurd, that there would be a corrupt president involved in international entry or that the Supreme Court would matter so well, that's fun there once those became pressed to hear what I went from being absurd to being president, then people were willing to buy the book, and I did spend a lot of twenty nineteen and early twenty twenty tweaking it and bring it up to speed. There is a there come up in their few anachronistic moments in the book a routine had a flip phone. When I wrote it, there are no snark smartphones to be heard of so I had to fix some of those pieces

there were some DC. Folks who pointed out that, when I lived in DC out would ends Morgan was like before. Delegation is not where it is today, but in the last ten years, but I am I right because I love telling stories and I try to make sure I carve out time for myself when I ve got a story to tell or when I'm book contract, to get the book done and, as you know, on the eve of the impetus of a contract leader want the book or their money back, get you to write really fast you about history of deep. Do you find it easier to write your novels or your political speeches and which do you enjoy more so actually don't write must have my speeches down, I tend to speak. Extemporaneous Molly saw usually have. As you know, we exhort a figure out your general themes and I

back to the crowd. When I wanted to see Jenna's my non fiction, writing is just a different type of writing, but for me I've always written fiction and nonfiction. At the same time, I wrote my romance novels when I was writing your my treatises on tax exemptions and unrelated business income tax policies. So for me it's it's just too different in my brain, but does the same besides a that's. That's unreal compartmentalization reiterating a treatise on tat. So that's why you're writing them romance levels, not to me people. Do that. I imagine I did I'm in the small club- yes How is being a novelist affected? How you think about political communication I certainly I have experience of writing with rock Obama and he wasn't a novelist, but he was a writer and watching his transition.

from being a writer into being sort of a political speaker was interesting to watch, but someone who's Britain fiction, I'd be even more interested to know how you have you see that, whether its politics or advocacy or business or or writing it, it's all about telling a good story and when I say good story in its about one making sure your audience constituent themselves in your narrative too, that they share your vision for what is to be and three that you are so compelling in your imaginings that it feels possible and real. Those are things that you have to do, no matter where you are and on the use in the universe of behind,

yours and for me it it's self reinforcing. If I'm a good fiction writer, it's because I have to bring enough pathos inhumanity to what I say. If I'm writing well and nonfiction. It's because I can take what seems like a stultifying. If not absolutely you do is paralyzing we borings topic and make you care about it. For a while and when I am talking here when giving political speeches, whether I'm talking about you, knew hump real report, exemptions or criminal justice perform, you ve got to believe not only that its possible, but- you have a role to play in making it. So, as I see it, all is a three one. So you tell a story: where comes at a broader story, the Democrats tell about what we're for and who are fighting for theirs long running debate. I know you, from my with it over how much the party should emphasise issues of class. an economics verses issues of race and identity,

if you saw this study that came out of your last month, but these two political scientists, like English and Joshua Calla, asked five thousand people about six policies using different messaging frames central finding of their study was that linking like policies to race, is detrimental for support of those policies. Now you ve waited on this larger debate before in a brilliant

and affairs essay about identity politics, which everyone should go, read if you haven't. But what do you think about those findings and and and what they say about how Democrats should frame messages and support for policies I began by critiquing. The comparison to Republicans Republicans are largely a very homogenous party, with a fairly unitary notion of what their mission is. Democrats are everyone else, and so, even with a steady with five thousand people, you're, not five thousand people, and I can vote the same way and you ve got to piece together a coalition. That of that five thousand will include the three honey making that number accident Red Seti, the three hundred people for whom race was resident in fact was the most important part of it. If you leave them out, that is the margin by which you lose an election because they don't show up

This notion that we can be so reductive in our politics on the democratic side, as we ve seen be successful for Republicans, ignores the complexity of our party and the range of needs of our constituents. My point is not that we have to have this overly simplistic messaging, but we ve got to be clear about why we're talking about what we're talking about and who were talking to me just going to your earlier question about the timing. When I started running and twenty seventeen, I had to talk to people who had never heard from a politician, and that took a lot of time and I had to be very specific. My conversation, I told the same story everywhere, but I made certain that I made the story relevant to each person, and so sometimes the relevance of a policy is about the race experience. Some it's about the class experience for others. It's a geography issue for some

it's a tangential to their identity but central to their future and the role of a good politician and the effectiveness of a party is the ability to watch you gum at the same. I'm an to understand that there can be those who join is part of the way and peel off, and our mission is to make sure that, appealing after the other side, there's peeling offices, at distracted and we gotta go and gave him again, that's the most effective way for us to message. But this notion that we have- you ignore factions of our community in order to satisfy and mollify those for whom this is. Discomfitting is exactly how we lose elections, and I am hopeful that, because of the proof, of some communities of color showing up in twenty twenty and twenty three one in Georgia, that we, seen that it is worthwhile to have multiple conversations as long as we have the same core message, which is that we are here with you for you and we are about you,

So one more language question for you about are the most effective way for Democrats to talk about particularly issues of an identity longtime them breaks. Ragists James Carvel stirred up a debate last month. He gave us VOX where he said you know woke MRS problem. Every one knows it: we have to talk about We should talk about Rachel injustice. What I'm saying is we need to do without using jargon, languages unrecognisable to most people, including most black people, because it signals that you're trying to talk around them, The example he uses are words like lightning and phrases like communities of color, which he calls faculty lounge language that most people don't use now see. You just helped flipped a red southern state for the first time since James won his last election and ninety. Ninety two I figured. I would ask you for your reaction to that. As someone who thinks a lot about language in communication and, like you just said, has gone to Caen unities, where people have never heard from

politician. Letter alone had heard progressive language. It again it depends on you, you're talkin, to you, the language that sometimes dismissed as jargon. E sounds darkness to older people, but if you're in a room with eighteen to twenty two year olds, having a conversation about race in you, don't understand their lexicon, you are going to lose them you, so you ve gotta, be we have to be fluent in multiple languages, including what can be termed a relatively as wilderness. It's not that it's about being able to meet people where they are, and that language is very persuasive for a segment of the population that we need to have turn out to vote. There are other communities where I would never use language like that, but I need to have every set of conversations in my back pocket so that when I'm talking to a community, they believe that I understand the or at least that.

We are starting with the same baseline. It's I don't think he's wrong, but I do think there is something that is slightly off key when you presume that every that your experience is normative for everyone, their communities, whom they need to hear you use their language and reflection of their experiences because that's how they describe it to me else and we ve got a lot of communities for whom what's dismissed as wilderness is more. This is the first time we ve had language to describe our experiences of these issues. In our moment. In this political space- and it's an important thing for us to be able to do when she ate yes use the language that makes the most since, where you are, but don't ignore, or miss the language that works and other places. Last question, because We always like to give our listeners something to do, and you do great calls to action. People are worried about voting rights right now and the attack on voting rights and they

calling their representatives and their talking to a Joe Mansion or a curse and cinema which had their message be. What would your message be mine and that our democracy is in peril and that January Sixth, wasn't an anomaly? It was a call to action for so many and our response has to be defending our democracy by leveraging it as best we can. That means one. We ve got to talk about voter suppression and we ve got to use real stories in real examples, and we ve got to talk about it everywhere. This isn't a southern problem. This isn't a republican problem. This is an american problem and we ve gotta be talking about especially on social media, particularly outside of twitter, because the disinformation campaign that is happening so aggressive that we ve got to be everywhere, telling the counter narrative talking up for the people,

talking of the dollar's, winning Rice Advancement ACT and talking about the fact that voters suppression is real number to support all of the voting rights organisations where you live, because even if it's not happening to your community on the macro level, strengthening voting rights everywhere strengthens it for everyone and the number three call your tongue call. Your congressmen women, call your senators and demand that they pass before the people act and the John this only right to inspect and to get all this in a most much more distinct formed to stop Jim Crow too, that camp out standing say save rooms. Thank you so much for joining us as always come back any time. We really appreciate the time. Thank you, John, and please stop Emily. Thank you for reading the book, I well for Decatur based Stacy Abrams for joining us today. Roads baggy fur

being our cause. This is a lot of fun. Everyone please go my after the fall. Its outstanding book go go sign up right now, if you have an already yeah thanks it was a great ride along agenda and, as I said on parts of the world like this is like the audience. I wrote the book for so fervour. It's really good to today, to see to it that there is a pot audience as well as in Bogota heavier via by Everyone Party of America, is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez, our senior posts is flabby causes are associate. Producers, Jazzy Marie in Bolivia, Martinez. Its mixing edited by Andrew Chadwick While someone is our sounded in here, two tiny so mediator, Katy Long, roman puppet Dimitrios, Caroline rest in adjusting how for production, support into our digital team, Elijah Comb, normal Conan, Yell Freed, and my look him who film and upload these episodes is videos. Every week

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