Democrats win a stunning upset in Wisconsin, Joe Biden wins the endorsements of Barack Obama, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren, and Data for Progress polling guru Charlotte Swasey joins Jon and Dan to break down brand new polling that details which arguments about Trump’s handling of the coronavirus are most persuasive to voters.
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pod we got some brand new polling about trumps, responds to the corona virus. That will talk about with Charlotte suasion from data for progress laws
About a huge when for Democrats in Wisconsin Stew,
of major endorsements, Joe Biden receive this week from Brok Obama, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth worn, and how the democratic talk about this crisis as we head into an election against Donald Trump, but first
don't miss parts of the world this week. Former sector
of the Navy. Re Mavis talks to tell me about the Navy captain who was fired for asking the government to protect his sailors from a corona virus outbreak on board the? U S, S, Theodore, Roosevelt and then best friend of the pod Samantha Power joins.
About the failure of the U N and other global institutions in responding to this pandemic, also vice hands book. If you have an hour
The education of an ideal is, it is fantastic. Finally, donors are two pod cast a dive into some of the non political aspects of corona virus. Six feet apart with Alex Wagner in America, descended corona virus with Doktor Abdul L said, bring you stories from the front lines and expert analysis.
Find them both wherever you get your pike by Dan. We are going to start with something that is all too rare these days. Good news! Why? Two's? Yes,
this, not the Jordan documentary coming at this weekend. It is not about that. On Monday, we finally got the results from an election in Wisconsin.
That never should have happened and election where republican politicians and conservative judges forced
tens of thousands of voters to risk their lives in order to cast their ballot? They did everything they could to make it harder to vote absentee
College kids, who were sent home when the virus hit couldn't vote
Ninety seven percent of all pulling locations in the city of no Aki were closed. They pulled out all the stops, so they can hold on to a state Supreme Court, see that would allow them to purge potentially hundreds of thousands of voters from the rules before this November and yet
a lost in a that's, been decided by less than a point for the last few elections. Jill Karasowski beat the Trump back incumbent justice by over ten points, stunning
upset in Wisconsin dear. How did this happen grew
It was great. It was just great. I convince myself, there was no. There was everyone. Frankly, everyone commit themselves, so there is no way the Democrats can win this
I made the Democrat there was constant Democrats idiocy. Had I call on election day talking about how
was likely to be a stolen election and we won. There was good
I don't even like. Like usual,
what these special actions I need. Let myself hope that winning
I'd, be one of the possible outcomes just because it like this
conditions under which this election was held and the fact that you no more appalling locations were closed down and in blue areas and in the state, I was shocked, I think even Ben Wikler
hero. Chair of there was concern. Democratic party was pretty shock to the abbey did like I
I would eventually because I'm stuck at home and can't leave guide deep into the county by county data as the result for coming and just but not because I
are we can win, but because I wanted to see the effects of republican voter suppression in Milwaukee, county and elsewhere,
and as I am preparing myself to be angry about the results.
The more and more you look at it, the more and more. It becomes clear that we might want to close race, and then you look at the results and Joke Roscoe runs way within. It was amazing and it is a credit to I was. It was council voters by it to her campaign and Benwick learn. The damage was caused to democratic party for coming up with a strategy to navigate.
Probably the most challenging electoral environment in american history. So Tuttle a bit more about that strategy. How do you think Democrats ended up winning a race that seemed out of reach
is even before the the Supreme Court there was gardens of was happens, recorded and others got involved in trying to steal the election for the report.
Against the Scots and Democratic Party had, and they crosbie campaign put in place a strategy to campaign during a quarantine, write em, like its port and from you
send it almost every single campaign focuses
all of their GEO Tv on person, a person contacts right, getting people in a room to make phone calls getting people to not door,
having town halls in Raleigh. If you can see people and get them to sign, voter cards are the volunteer and all of those things are illegal. So what are you in a in a in a shell
play situation. So what are you doing here? And there is up.
Series of articles ourselves. What one want in the near times subject, though, that goes to the digital techniques, that their scouts undemocratic across a campaign used.
Some very new stuff, like they recognize like
smaller state campaigns like a state supreme framework has been generally don't have the money to write that effective to Rhine, digital ads on like Hulu or Youtube, but because run a quarantine. The amount of people watching this arises is so far
that it was a cost effective spanned. So they did so. They were buying adds pre rolls on Youtube and on Hulu for effective. They want old school and did
telephone town halls
something that no one has done a long time, the classic him he was getting. According to some support, six thousand people on the telephone town halls
active, obviously intense interest in the election and people being at home with
things, no ability to weave got them to get on these calls, and I think the other thing that was really important was and you in
Ben talks about this in some the enemies eastern afterwards is the republican tactics
for so brazen in so offensive in their envy. The role Supreme Court blade was so partisan that an outrage people to get involved too
You know there's a derogatory that there is an absolute backlashes voter suppression and that helped move votes and get people to fired up about election. They may not have otherwise been followed up,
Yeah there's a backlash, especially in communities of Color Ben noted. I mean just the idea that Republicans we're going to make it as difficult as humanly possible to vote safely in an election so enraged. So many voters, especially voters in places like Milwaukee, that they either figured out a way to vote absentee for the first time in their lives,
or they, you know, risked their lives and stood and very very long lines. We should say that you know usually absentee ballot. Voting in Wisconsin makes up like ten twenty percent it most of the electorate, make. It was like seventy or eighty percent, which means that these concepts, Democratic party and organ and progressive organizers, basically trained and entire electorate to vote absentee in the
span of about twenty six days is twenty six days before the election that they realise that there is a shut down there. They had to do this and
no bends had they reached out to voters literally millions of times the attacks phone call online, and so I just think that the effort was incredible and look on the UN's flip
I too there was that the Republican Party chairman and mine, Monroe County in Wisconsin, told the New York Times. He gave this
use about why sort of republican turnout was low, while republic
encourage early in absentee voting. Many elderly either do not have the wherewithal to request absentee ballots or the inclination to vote in person on April. Seven
So there was only a backlash that force with the cause more Democrats to want a vote. It was about
gosh against their own voters because their own Republican,
there's themselves worse, either scared
The girl, folk or couldn't figure at the absentee ballot programme, because the Republican Party
visions tried to make it harder to vote.
Is it along those lines, one of the things that the Wisconsin Democratic Party and others were doing was. They were literally doing
organize we're doing. One on wine face time, tutorials with voters on how to vote absentee yeah right, let's leveraging every digital told everything. That's notable is when we talk about this in previous by cast, but the supreme, the United States Supreme Court waiting here and a partisan, very disturbing five for decision to force this election to happen and to prevent and to prevent Democrats for making an
all male election or or postpone the election, and if you want to demonstrate to voters in the most crystal clear way why US states Supreme Court election matters, have the United States Supreme Court trying to steal that election right so that I think that also helped draw very real attention to this and helped demonstrate why this mattered, even if the primary that was on this date, was essentially no our contested by this point. So what? If anything, can the result
on Tuesday tell us about November in Wisconsin. I have read a lot of stories. They talk about how this is a super positive sign for Democrats in it means that the political environment shift
and I want to be cautious about that. But there is a lot of optimism there. So let me try to do this.
A day on brand class.
For us? It is then away
Give us really give examples. The wet blanket I'll give you the wet blanket which is- and this is like a real window into my mentality these days. We
taxing about this issue in the crooked meet a slight chance about how great this was everyone sharing the articles about the map of.
Your turn out now is exactly what a winning Wisconsin turn out would be in November, and I went and trade system,
Sad person, but I try to find a near the pines which, if you I went to fund the New York Times article from June twenty twelve, because in twenty twelve the Democrats ardour calls
Walker, Ripe and Scott Walker. Despite being the subject of many many protests in a very engaged race between Democrats, Republicans pretty easily was able
you stay in office, but I wanted you read whether the New York Times story about
Tat day was very simile. Bullish about Republicans
he was content in two thousand and twelve, and it turns out they were not because of how far we
Com in eight years is the only line about it is this gave some
public ins, the possible idea that they might possibly maybe have a chance of being somewhat competitive. Almost cotton farmers godsons combat eight years
but like so here's the things we should be wanted one, it is a special action
not necessarily predictive of anything to this there was a there was a democratic primary on this day, even if the contest was largely over. This was still a time when Biden in Bernie Supporters
turning out evasion. Mostly my mail- and there was not a simple way- there's not a somewhere republican contests on about, even though
did went his uncontested primary and the Aral Sea and his own campaign congratulated, and for which, I think is very funny.
Yeah. Congratulations, you be
well. I will say, though, even about that so Trump received six hundred
Ten thousand votes in his primary Dan Kelly, who was the conservative justice that loss to jail, Crosbie
received six hundred and ninety two thousand votes,
So it is a little interesting that the conservative,
since you lost still receive more votes than Trump and a primary, which means there are some people who went to vote, who voted for Dan Kelly and just decided not to even check the Box for Donald Trump
in his primary, where he was uncontested. I would love to find those voters and survey them and try to figure
Is there maybe they just but he's here, but here's them.
Paused, like that's all contacts for why we should not gay overconfident about this. But the important point here- and this is the part about the special actions it is transferable- is
it was they. It was a gigantic tests of the organization Benwick lower than was caught. The democratic party has built and they crush that test right anyway,
like we talked about it about how is like whatever it is. Twenty seven days they had to figure this out, but that they can accomplish
in this way, seven days because of all the work they have done for the last couple of years to have a real organization that was recruiting volunteers that was that was beat. It was engaging in activism from the very beginning to prepare for this moment.
And in a close race that could be all the difference, and so we should see. I think we should feel very
bullish on the sort of organization Democrats are going to have in Wisconsin on election day. Even if we this election may not tell us a ton about what republic in turn out would look like under you're not going to return to normal electoral scenario. Yeah, I'm looking to turn out was fifty two percent of twenty sixteen. So it's a completely different electorate, but you can start comparing travel a little bit better to the election. First aid Supreme Court seat that was held in April, twenty nineteen, which was an off your election, and you know the liberal justice sort of improved. You know across the board, from the challenger back in April of twenty nineteen, which is a good sign. You look at counties like Dane County, where Madison is college, town and turn out and democratic margins were both up indian commie, even as a lot of college students didn't vote this time, so that a very good sign that,
a traditional democratic stronghold is getting even bluer and turn out as up so you know there are, even with the caveat that turnout was much lower than it will be in November of twenty twenty. There are signs in some of the suburban margins and some of the blue or places that democratic turn out and democratic margins, specifically over Republicans in serve the traditionally blue and some purple areas are improving. As we get close
in November in Wisconsin, which is a very good sign. We should just say explain why this matter so much consumption can be saying you guys are so fucking desperate
good news that you just want twenty minutes talking about. I was scattered Supreme Court race
yeah, you do that
and so Satan
in courts Matter attack. Just
we think about how important it is for a progressive majority, are the United States Supreme Court for all the exact same reasons, state Supreme Court's matter in public
to build up a huge majority. I've never Scottsdale Supreme Court that had ruled many,
times in very policy decisions that were very favourable to govern Walker. The COPE brothers in general republican efforts to suppress the vote, but more specific,
Equally in this situation, there is currently a case that has worked his way through the Wisconsin Courts,
where a conservative law firm is trying to force the state to purge two hundred nine thousand voters from the voter roles that
The election commission had refused to do that because they believe that, based on the limits of their data, that would kick a lot of eligible voters off the voter roles and therefore disenfranchises
and so the conservatism in pushing this. That case has been deadlocked and supreme court. Three three Kelly
accused himself, because he peace on the ballot and so with cross key replacing Kelly. There is a chance that we will end up with a four three decision that could prevent that vote approach of that's why they sinks matter is justice in port edict that we have to remind you all the time, which is the best way to win national actions is to win local actions first, because it gives she is, gives you the best chance of having a fair election day. Last question is: what do you think this means for the police?
go fight over whether we should give everyone the option of voting by mail in November. You would think in a normal, rational world, the repulsive look at this and say men that did not work out for us. We should obviously let people vote. Maybe they would be personally offended disturbed by the images of these people. Standing and wind potentially getting krona viruses because,
they decided be assholes. I don't know that's what can happen. I actually think it's going to cost them to double down on the suppression. The take away from this will not be. Why did we know we didn't do vote by male? Therefore, their wall? We never by male it'll, be what other suppression techniques we do. What other vote approaches can we do? What other ways can we women pulling places in urban democratic areas? What other ways can we make it harder for people to vote a pandemic, and so it makes me I am. I never bet
on the goodwill of Republicans and I suspect that there will be a winning bet, this type as well, which means that you know Democrats have leverage when it comes to the next economic relief bill, and we have launched sort of a call in campaigns that you call your representatives and make sure the Democrats fight for voter protection resources in the next bill. Could vote save America dot com, slash com,
all you can be connected the text or email or phone call via your representative. There is even a scripts we have for you, but that the main things we want people to ask for our
two billion dollars and safe election money for states, more
vote by mail more early voting and making sure that every in person voting location should have what they need to run a safe election. This is what we're asking for, and it's very, very important that these measures end up in the neck
relief Bell are so democratic, a good NEWS in Wisconsin. They also gets.
Good news on the party unity front as Joe Biden.
The endorsement this week of Bernie Sanders Brok, Obama and Warren as Brian Shots tweeted
ends in array.
Let's start with Bernie, who endorsed by many,
Joint live video appearance on Monday. Here's a clip we ve gotta make promptly one term president.
And we need you in in the White House. I will do all that. I can see that that
go, and I know that there is an enormous responsibility on your shoulders right now and it's imperative that all of us work together.
To do what has to be done, not only in this moment but beyond the small in the future of this country,
so then I thought this was a very enthusiastic and heartfelt endorsement on Bernice part. I can imagine what more binding would have wanted from this, or what? What did you think of that?
great, I thought when I originally saw that they really do a
zoom conversation together, I was nervous that it with them.
Just awkward and strange, like they're, like even I've known each other for well over a decade and we're doing this in its though always a little awkward so and binding Bernie to be more competing. Gives you each other like three weeks ago. She like he could be
speed for disaster, but it actually went wrong.
When great- and it was compelling and like they had thought out how to do this. Like the first question that Bernie asked Biden about was about the minimum wage, because Biden has been a supporter of the fifty dollar minimum wage for a long time, it was an opportunity for Biden to say two Bernie
porters like here is an issue where we agree right. They started with an area of agreement that was not about. I was
so just struck by wine, which
to its credit, has done this campaign is talk about the stakes of beating Trump, whether he is a nominee or not, but also struck by the fact that there seems to be.
A very real respect and affection for each other. There they came through
It is not to say their best friends or anything like that, but the day
that there is a respect there and if there is no sort of like awkward grievance or are gradually. I thought it was great. I think we have mostly rightly tended to downplay sort of the importance of personal relationships and politics over the years. You know, because, partly because we double
everyone being like, you know, Brok, Obama, John Vainer, should go play golf and that will solve all the world's problems and you have a drink with Miss Mcconnell right, you ever dream is regarded and
Obviously, that's not how politics mostly works. People are driven by a sort of larger political and structural incentives, but
Do you think, on the margins, in some cases, having good relationships with people in politics ends up paying off Joe Biden as someone who has a lot of very strong good personal relationships and somewhat so far, the focus has been like. You know his relationships with people on the other side of the ILO
how useful or not that is, but I think Barack Obama for a very long time has had a good relationship with Bernie Sanders and and
and Bernie Sanders likes Joe Biden and Joe Biden likes Bernie Sanders and in what could have been a very contentious into a primary? I think that you know there were larger forces at play, which is that Bernie Sanders believes deeply. The Donald Trump is the most dangerous threat to our country and thinks that beating him is the most important thing ever, but he also likes job
and that that came through in that video. It's like good relationships where between Democrats Republicans is not going to cause Republicans to Saturn republican things right by good relations,
within the party to clean. The contacts are primary, can matter right and us
I was struck by how somebody stories talked about how one of the things that Bernie really liked about Biden is that
Bernie was new and he was either the house or, as in the senator and Bind had been around for a long time from a gesture commitment of our relation very senior member. That bind was always very nice. Damn right like allow,
people have become very nice to Bernie and and given him more attention and respect in the last few years it has become the leader of incredible political movement, but fewer people were respectful, unfriendly
To him when he was just this democratic socialist, too cautious with the Democrats and was off dead, balloon voice, opposing democratic ideas and the fact that he appreciated how Biden entreated him them in that bore fruit in the city,
nation, I must say what our old boss, who stepped into the twenty twenty campaign for the first time on Tuesday, to endorse his former vice president in a Twelvemonth video, where he praised by leadership, qualities, praise Bernie, Sanders, progressive vision and laid out the stakes in Nagoya
Amber here's a clip, but if there is one thing we ve learned as a country from moments of great crisis, is that the Spirit
of looking out for one another can't be restricted to our homes, where our workplaces,
our neighbourhood saw our houses of worship it halls
has to be reflected in our national govern the cat
leadership, that's guided by knowledge and experience on
turkey and humility. Empathy and grace
I got a leadership, doesn't just belong in our states, capitals and mayors offices,
it belongs in the White House.
And that's why I'm so proud to endorse Joe Biden Proper,
so the United States,
choosing Joe to be my vice president was one of the best decisions I ever made and it became a close friend
and I believe Joe has all the qualities we need in a president right now.
Then, what you think of the video
it was even out of body experience. I felt,
so long since we ve seen Brok, Obama speak innocent,
that obviously we lived for ever
every single day, several times a day like watching this.
Since you writing his speeches and be sometimes editing the speeches and to have him speak. What like it was surreal and very comforting
I put a very comforting, see broiler vein.
I realize you can expect anything else from us. Like the Daisy Miller, I've gotta hit the video that guy's bore. You know why he does not want to allow aid say they. Love brought drew up its doors, and you know why you,
be biased and you can be right to and we set executive and you know what
Eighty five percent democrats agree with us, so I'm through with I mean I thought he did a few things in that video that are notable first, then, you sort of Situated Joe Biden is uniquely suited for the moment that, where an enemy he started talking about the pandemic, which also struck me because it's the first time we seen Barack Obama tweet a few times about the the pandemic. But it's the first time we ve heard him speak about maybe the greatest crisis in our lifetimes,
interesting, but he sort of at the very beginning, talks about in a clip that we heard how you know we're seeing the leadership we need at this moment in cities and in states and in our communities and the way we treat each other and then he sort of you know slyly says an end. We don't you see that leadership in all those places it belongs in the White House, meaning yet it's not fucking there now and Joe Biden is the guide to provide it, which I think was it, and it was better than just him. You know touting all Joe Buttons random qualities like he's, trying to set up Biden as the candidate for
at this moment in time, visa be top right. Out of that was a very effective, partly now threat, which was it. He took things that we have heard Barack Obama say about Joe bite me for Joe Biden make the case
himself along these lines about his life
variances advocacy, working class people, but but Obama rooted in this moment and
we talked about how binds message that
out some- why I think the potentially outdated at times during the primary and our different political environment is very relevant in this moment and the context around the changes and about Obama made that clear,
in a very effective way in yet I also find it notable that you know, as he was talking about Bernie. You know he said if I were running today, I wouldn't run the same race or have the same platform as I did in two thousand, and eight Democrats need to be bold. He said the affordable care act in the Paris agreement aren't enough when it comes to health care and climate talks about how Biden has the most progressive platform of any democratic history. I thought that was sort of interesting, because yes, Biden has a lot of leadership, qualities that are a perfect fit for this moment, and yet he wanted to remind Democrats that we have to be even bolder and more ambitious than when he ran for office, partly because the times of change, and also partly because this pandemic in this cause
This is his sort of highlighted a lot of the inequality in our society that existed long before the the pandemic. Data thing I'd say is above and deliver the shit out of everyday of yeah. He did
time and time others. Yes, we analyzed dream like how many times have we seen him record a video where he is either tired or annoyed that he Esther heard them.
Or maybe right for the first time and none of those things were apparent in the video recordings.
But while we just is a little bit of contacts on that, is that for
eight years. The last thing the Brok Obama did on almost every Friday was record yet weekly Youtube redress,
add and if he was isn't gonna record the weekly Youtube address, he would recall,
other videos, it had to be died and
oftentimes that with wood pile up with things that even under the best circumstances, seems maybe not like his favorite thing to do
so he would sit down. He would do the weekly address if there be like and Sir
We have a video message to the local Elks Club and we have our birthday tribute, Patrick Lady.
And it was like- probably in hindsight putting his lease favorite thing as the last thing he had to do. Every week before he went home to have dinner with his family was scattering mistake, but
When I saw what I knew you'd circular that this would be part, maybe a twelve minute
dress the idea, the Brok about business-
therein deliver well twelve minutes of direct a camera remarks seemed impossible to imagine, but
you can start to tell his span hit
do you want to get off his chest both about Joe Biden and we,
ship in the White House and in the Republican Party and
also like the rest of us, have been stuck at his house and not be able to talk about it to a lot of people, so he
And then he relish the opportunity to communicate with the world and away he hasn't done a long time. I was pleasantly surprised by you know the extent to which he got a lot of that office. Just about Republicans I mean he said Republicans occupying the White House and running the Senate are not interested in progress, the interested in power. He said the others
as a propaganda network with little regard for the truth. On the other hand, pandemics have way of cutting through a lot of noise and spin to remind us of what is real and what is important. We need Americans of goodwill to unite the great awakening against a politics that too often has been cut.
Rise by corruption, carelessness, self, dealing, disinformation, ignorance and just plain meanness.
Not mincing words,
Recently my sadness and made me excited for him
get out on the virtual campaign trail
can we were those zoom rallies? Ok, let's go
that you have the nearer times had backstory on the endorsement reported that Obama tried to quote Excel,
Read the end game of the primary by having a few conversations with Bernie that helped him make the decision to end his campaign. What did you think of that whole story?
It seemed like a story that tried to make
Obama, so my fellows, I think I think, the real tat he didn't the real
a way of this is that against
the recommendations of a lot of people. He stayed neutral throughout this process so that when the result was clear here,
be a person who was seen as not having put their thumb, honest
What could be involved in conversations about? How do we get to where we already are right, which is Biden habit?
was there. Someone in the party- and this was a
I think this goes all, but it doesnt sixteen on the challenges, like Obama, eventually in the end, and she doesn't sitting of action after Couldn'T- have blocked up the
Are you raise help play a role in bringing that campaign to a conclusion,
because Obama include
We're so closely associated? It was believed that Obama had been so far
What a Hilary in that primary erase? It was hard for me to play that role this time. He stayed out of it and was able to bring us to a place of unity that isn't it just is worth putting this into context, which is in two thousand and six in two thousand and eight. The democratic primary ended and the opponent endorse the nominee in the summer, and we have that process all wrapped up in April, which gives the binding campaign a much longer runway to build the infrastructure campaign they need to take our trump cards are not so
fighting a war on our left flank throughout April May and June. So on. I know what is in the best way for the bombing campaign to make the most of this largely unsurprising, endorsement by Obama,
I mean I think, there's like to contacts to talk about this in one is: let's say we return to normal in a bomb making barn storm the country now and look about. Is this massive asset to the Biden campaign, because he is someone who can draw huge crowds and draw huge press attention and is very popular in particularly with a with sets of voters who, by needs to persuade the former
in a bomb twenty twelve hours. You sat up two thousand sixteen, but also the Obama transfers. You are people who supported tramper, also favourable to Obama. You people who are open voting for proper, also Faribault about Us Obama, can make the case to them, and I think there are thereby campaign should pick moments where the two of them are together, because that will draw a lot of attention both on the campaign trail or in an awkward zoom conversation in an interview right, like they're, like you, can see a moment where the two of them were doing interview together would get massive attention and you can do that traditional way where you would do sixty minutes.
After the best football game you can find on the schedule presuming there was the ball which would get us you you'd ratings, or you can just produce it on your own and get someone like opera or someone else to moderate that conversation and put it up on the internet to build to sort of Cuba came or violate, but I think a bombing can testify can do to specific things, addition to being out there with binding, which is one
testified. Joe Biden, the person, and that is gonna matter, because for trying to win he went he has to tear down Joe Biden the person right
The second thing is what you also didn't video which is raises takes on the election. I think no one better than Obama explains what is at stake in an election in explain what happens if we went and what happens if we lose, which will help motivate people who may not of incipient is ass much a binding. This primary young people who may not feel direct connection him Obama can help
explain why it matters that we elect Joe Biden are the last major by an endorsement of the weakest from centre. Elizabeth Warren were released. A video of her own on Wednesday here is a clear and on all the other. Candidates have competed ways in the democratic primary there's, no one. I have agreed with a hundred percent of the time.
Over the years. But one thing I appreciate about Joe Biden is: he will always tell you where he stands when you disagree illicit and not just listen, but really here you entreat you with respect. No matter
where you're coming from and has shown throughout this campaign that when you come up with new facts or a good argument, he's not too afraid or too proud to be.
Persuading Sudan. I love this endorsement because she personalized it is someone who has disagreed with binding, but still
it respects him in part because he's willing to listen and learn and be open to new ideas. What did you think
I agree that it is a phenomenon endorsement, if spoke directly, to the people who may not be therefore bite me yet
is it because are here, you have, it was with worn a famous progressive.
Became famous in part by battling with Joe Biden over economic issues explaining that binding as someone who listens and that he has a good person and that he can be moved on these issues
I thought it was incredible. Was written was very well that video and has very powerful message that they can vary and pack for with some of the democratic voters that show by this age persuaded
behind him, and not just as voters, but as volunteers and donors,
quit break and when we come back, we'll have Charlotte Swazi from data for progress to talk to us about some brand new pulling on trumps handling of the current of our
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has unofficially begun. I want to talk about how much trumps responds to the pandemic might shaped the race and what the most effective argument might be about how he's handled the crisis so with us today?
is Charlotte Swazi, the vice president of pulling and data data for progress who completely nails many of the primary poles. The season Charlotte,
thanks for venier thanks? So much for having me. So we talked you guys a few weeks ago about doing appalled tested a trump argument about how great he's done, handling this crisis against a few different, progressive arguments to see which ones voters found most persuasive like which cause them to say there, there less likely to vote for Trump Charlie
to talk about how you guys went about conducting the pull you absolutely I'm. So even this as a message test. Basically what that means is that we split vote.
Is into a couple different random groups. We use a control
where we shut I'm kind of a standard message
His reason one that's like trump- is on Twitter, too much picking fights and not like actually doing anything
and then we show them each about like a different groups. We each show one of them our task message, so we tested a couple different things. This time
we tested like his response. Dependent
is costing lives we tested at their crisis shows we
structural economic change
are we tested. One says that he slashed the safety net in the middle of the crisis and then is it
hundred variable. We use we just a couple of things, but the main wine is. We asked people if they're playing about four tramper.
I did in the general election and because we
them into random groups. We can actually look at the differences in the proportion of people who are poor, intend to better Biden Trump and figure out what the effect. Our message is hard on that as an interesting people know, you know. So. Each responded in the pole gets a trump message and I think the tremors such was Trump says, he's done a great job leading the country through grins. No one saw coming. The pandemic will be much worse if he hadn't ban travel from China and he passed the largest economic really fill in history to save jobs and help. Workers Democrats opposed the travel ban held the economy hostage for a wish list of radical left its policies
in care more about blaming Trump and saving the country. So we gave tramper a pretty good argument that he actually uses it was pretty fair yeah. We try to make them as realistic as possible. Also in this case it was something that, like you actually here being said. So what did you find? Was the most effective argument of the various progressive arguments that you just mentioned that
we tested, so the one that was most effective in our experiment was the one hitting him on his failed corona response and how his ears
since the pandemic and failure to kind of wicked properly is actually
lasting lives. Specifically, it talks about unavailability of tests
I confess to later- is the fact that he didn't sufficiently provide funds to let people had this been Democrats, bons, that's a limited bass actually in and what was the effective that argument on the horse?
race between vitamin tromp. So we find like point eight facts per cent of facts
it's a little tricky to interpret, but basically how you can interpret that. Is it it's moving. People in that group like shifting overall top line between Biden Trump by point eight percent.
They may not sound like a lie in the scheme of things that actually pretty significant effect.
Especially when you have a Trump message in there is well yeah.
And what was the next most effective message so that the next most effectively
and was saying that he slashed the safety net
the pandemic, so cutting people off of food stamps things like that incident, the least effective was the one about structural economic change, which I said aghast at this crisis shows me to increase minimum wage port workers on corporate.
Forests limit CEO pay off like that. You that actually had a little bit a backlash. Its way
all become like more likely to support trump as a result of hearing the message din?
what jumped out at you in the and what did you think of the messages that there were more effective here? Why a couple things why
and is that tromp actually has good arguments for himself, because, with the the arguments that are tested in Nepal were Trump is acting like a normal president. Were you say you know, Trump is working with Democrats to address the crisis. Jump is working to local issues that actually is ineffective. Argument
but the Good NEWS so that spanish member had the Good NEWS, is trumpets, temperamental, incapable of acting like a normal president, but it desert a bit ate like.
This may even be something that you could interpret down the line as a positive in the political environment for
is. There does seem to be in these very abnormal times a desire for a president to do the normal things president's do in Crisis
The second is, I was very struck by how the Trump cutting the social safety net was very effective. Argumentative does any like this is be further explored down the line, but that the Cruel republic and echo,
what policies predated this crisis are looked at in aid in a new, more intense way in the context of this crisis, as we become too no more people who have lost their jobs are lost. Their wages in a more people have a direct connection to the people left behind in this economy. Right now than they did. You know, informers,
unemployment a few months ago. I think that that, like there is an interesting roadmap here for Democrats, but like the thing that I threw the cost,
We know that give everyone is than usual
all of this, and, despite being in this incredibly historic time, with this massively fumble response or a pandemic to the economic crisis, we are seeing twenty million people who have file for unemployment. Claims of lesser away
is the re, still remains a very, very close race and the arguments don't yet change. The overall dynamic of a very close race were Biden. Probably
as a popular vote advantage in Trump. Has an electoral college advantage
what did see whether he can navigate that, but by an has good arguments, Wolverstone a very, very close, raise yet me. We should say that the horse reason this was binding. Forty eight Trump forty five and you know- that's obviously at a national popular vote led right there. But you know if you start doing a few, these arguments that move it point eight points or even a pointer to need the direction it is. The difference between a popular vote lead that Trump could still win in the electoral college with an one that starts to become difficult for him to make up, even if he does better in some of these swing states. Charlotte what'd you. Why do you think the messages
that tested most effective did so, where you surprised, do you have any idea, thoughts on on why they might have been self active? I was actually fairly surprised by these results, as I often am with our message services on a sleigh. I didn't entirely expects
going over the fact that transactions are costing lives to be super effective with voters.
Like I'm on twitter, I see that all day every day and I kind of thought we'd hit saturation by
Why was also really showing that that's not true, like for voters, for
but who are a little bit less online like that? Is not fully sunken yet, and it's not something that's fully baked into how they think about trust.
And it is still very effective- can highlight these like genuinely terrible thing.
That were preventable, but our habit. It yeah wanting that struck me as the tea. The messages that described in greater specificity, the effects of his failure to lead were more effective and messages that sort of sort of levied a judgment on her.
And his leadership itself re. There was the could the control one was about he's on twitter too much
he's not reading these pointing the finger at governors and he's playing politics, but they didn't have as many specifics about sort of. Why he's costing so many lives why he didn't give states the equipment they needed and then in the safety net specific cuts to social Security, Medicaid the Affordable CARE act, food stamps those seem to have.
In effect than just talking about Trump himself. Yeah, that's cancer, that even seeing and are pulling like hitting here-
for not listening to experts and going on twitter and being erotic and unreliable
It does not really think in with voters, especially persuadable. Voters, like you have to remember that this is a fairly narrow segment of the population is actually being moved in their opinion by this messaging, whereas talking about his axe
and what he's doing and the impacts is much more effective than when you think about it.
Because we ve talked about how we ve seen other poles where trumps. You know, chaos and you know his picking fights actually what did show some effect on others. You know,
I think it's a couple of things. Wine we have also seen in are battleground stay appalling, that more specific. The argument, the better it does right, because people, I think, have a natural skeptical.
M of political arguments. But if you there's, some detailed seems like it s more research in specific and not like wrapped in all this political rhetoric, then it has,
driven better so that it can this morning before. I think this raises a very important point for progressive strictly
the groups will be out biting campaign on Supermax also make the argument is there has been there
conversation happening among sort of the democratic political world about,
Hell trumps tweeting in its obsession with twitter. Is this like sort of killer argument again
from you, see in a lot of points, but what I think is important is that
reading itself, is not the problem
whenever we have our think like
would we be thinking about this?
They won't trunk, just one people like the Democrats
just spend a year making arguing about tramping on twitter too much like no fucking wonder we lost like Twitter. Like
argument that we have seen that does work against Trump afford. Europe is that Trump is obsessed with himself
in Twitter is just the most visual manifestation of that, because it's not that he's doing these things on twitter, it that he is doing that without the he say. Anything that's what I said. He saying that, and so you have to connect trumps in competence is chaotic, behaviors obsession with himself with actual consequences for people and the messages
here they did very well, are ones where you understand the consequences were he's not listening to exports right, there's just an act. He did. It says something about him that he didn't listen. Experts is consistent with a perception or of what a lot of voters have about him. It seems like you have to make sure you nail the costs of the chaos and the costs of the tweeting and the costs of the focus on himself in the ego for actual people and so to constantly keep the human cost of his decisions and his failure.
Leadership failures sort of at the top of every argument for voters riot Charlot is that nobody would, we would say to him he absolutely lake. I think the
describing his actions as terrible as they may be, unless you connected specifically to something that happened.
Is not as persuasive to this segment of the population, whereas if you can be like ok, he's erotic
and didn't plan while and is obsessed with his poor numbers. Therefore,
people are literally dying begun the failure to act. That is just much more impact for, and I think it keeps it very real for people YAP too
You also gave voters a series of twelve statements about the latest developments in the federal government's current of irish response and asked how concerned they were by each one. What are some of the
main findings there. I'm I mean
the main finding there is that it's a lot of it is pretty, have later
Bi partisanship, like we find Democrats being very concerned about pretty much all of the sort of Trump Action
flavoured things. So let me describe like an example like Trump is really
is to use its power to order american companies to build equipment like ventilators and masks like we find Democrats very concerned, like seventy percent, whereas republic,
really seeing of twenty percent, and I think that comes back to
one of the things we saw. These questions is real reluctance to criticise Trump from Republicans. Like
We try to set up these frameworks where we're describing
the carmes were describing like specifically failings
he has the orders.
Really willing to take that step and say that are concerned about it or say that they agree? He should have acted differently
by describing those things to them, does make them more likely to support democratic, so it is thinking in anyway yeah. I notice that, because the private
most concern. They were of any of the twelve statements had to do with testing and the lack of testing.
Over. Fifty percent of voters find the lack of ample krona virus testing to be very concerning an additional twenty. One percent of voters find the situation somewhat. Concerning that seventy one percent
but notably the way that we phrase that one Trump wasn't really part of it. So they could be critical of the lack of testing, but they didn't even necessarily have to,
you thought you'd never make it as a result of something that Trump specifically dead. Just the administration hadn't basically kept that promise
then, what did you think about this? This group of testing guy? I think that
all of these issues, even if they are not moving a lot of numbers in the horse race have
rules of concern that are incredibly high for statements made in a partisan context and yet insurance exactly right about how people
can react to these things in its also from an electoral context. We shouldn't really
care about that, because these are not, if you think about it, in the context of the Biden campaign or a say,
races running in this world. Those are not available. Voters to you so whether those arguments work with them or not, it doesn't really matter what is nailing which you have to now,
What which arguments worked ass with what you're, persuadable universe, s writing percent? Will universe can be be now consequent independence in this group? It could be the soft republicans. Organs are Democrats who are deciding between candidates and
also people deciding to vote, and you can see how some of these arguments can be even delivered over time, particularly as
the reality on the ground. Spreads more proportionate across the country can be very powerful,
Showed you any am Lazarev big, take ways from from the setup holes for rum progressive, looking to make an argument about trumps handling of the crisis.
I think the largest take away for me. It's just that.
The news is not as saturated for a lot of voters as it might feel, and the people are
learning about the effects of the pandemic. There still learning about what parts of it were prevented ever
to that. I just sort of not prevent. While at this point
and describing to them the fact that there are specific policy failures that can be connected
fast in lives is really powerful and that that is
more powerful to them, then criticising trumps approach to it
Will the tired, specifically to these just really terrible harms, is the most effective thing so
our people, with a lot of specifics and details about the consequences of his actions without putting a lot of spin on the ball when it comes to Trump himself seems like sort of the most effective strategy here
absolutely while shroud thank you for joining us? Thank you for conducting this very useful Paul. Thank you that when we come back to you- and I will talk about all this- should shape Democrats trumps latest push to force people back to work before
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Ability for Trump are his ego and the general chaos he causes. Do you think that still holds and what are some of the ways the pandemic highlights. These flaws that we're talking about the news this week.
Like ass? We talked to I Charlotte the corona viruses and has not fundamentally change the contours of the election, but it has added.
Additional salience to a lot of different arguments you would make and it creates a different context to make their men and
the persuadable voters that we need are, despite the predictions of a lot of people and resistance, twitter and others. We now
are not just one bad piece of information away from losing chopper. They it's like, they know, tat
was a bad person. They know that he is chaotic. They know that he tweets too much.
But up until this crisis, they were
able to create a
Permission structure that, while the economy still doing fine, we're not at war with North Korea
thing out in a lot of the prediction,
Doom and gloom that you were here from liberals have not come to pass
and now that is always a very privileged view for a certain set of hours because of you are someone. Immigrant communities or voter of colors are tweeting q, you're, obviously suffering very specifically at these
but now we are seeing the life or death consequences of what it's like to have. Someone like Trump is President right where it is flying the disregard, a experts he put in his own political and personal interest.
You go ahead of what's best for the country, and so now you have these ways who demonstrate to people very specifically the consequences having someone like Trump as leader, while one pervert example of that the wash
impose reported that two senior iris officials say that many Americans will have their stimulus. Checks are delayed because Donald Trump wants his name on them.
Also, the Iris website that was set up to help people check the status of their checks basically collapsed.
The overwhelming demand from so many users when it launched on Wednesday and people who could access the website, often found it frustratingly unhelpful and we actually have a few people.
Who called into Pierre, say and told us about their very, very frustrating experiences trying to get their check. Let's take a lesson high, nine insure back, so I went on to check my IRA stimulate at payment status, and I found that they have the wrong thing. Countless said, I know they have my correct bank account, because
I just got my tax refund like two weeks ago, maybe, and but now they have their own information listed on the IRS website, and you can't change it from what I can tell. You can't update your bank information because they're trying to prevent fraud. So what happens? If my payment goes to somebody else, do I just not get that payment.
Who do I call? How do I get that fixed high, mainly Miss Allison, I'm calling from married in Connecticut? I am actually a medical practice manager and I was for a load about two weeks ago, so I really really need
The money when I heard people were getting some payments today. I logged back onto the government website only to see our message that said,
They couldn't determine my eligibility right now. I make way
under the thresholds, as does my partner and we ve filed tax return. So I can't understand what the problem is.
And there's no way to call our contact. Anyone about at swine very fearful that we will never see this money and to add insult to injury. Connecticut, has been about five weeks behind and processing unimpeded unemployment claim. So I have no income right now.
And the fear and anxiety is very high. This does seem like something that would obviously the story came right after we did that data for progress, Paul,
I would love to test something where the specifics and the human cost of trumps ego witches people actually not getting checks that they so badly need to put food on the table because of Donald Trump Vigo omitted like the perfect fit of you know what what pisses people off usually about Donald Trump in court quote normal time
Tromp politically, in the course of credit krona virus pandemic gives us so much ammunition to make arguments. Guess I'm? U use essentially needed all alike and on.
Coming tracking Paul all times. You can add new questions and because, like we did that
We did the Paul as
yes, we're Charlotte, there are devasted
attacks on trumpet right. Like the note
among many others. The fact that he was sending millions of masks to China weeks before the court of Auditors had America
that put those very concerning too many people,
as a rule, has the double impact of also undermining the argument he's making against Biden on china- the? U S heart about last week, but
the Trump the stimulus,
extreme millions of Americans, so he can be the first present american history to sign the check in anything.
Safari is here,
legally allowed to sign the check right,
so we have to sign the memo wide of the Czech sofa basely the place
your grandmother used to write happy birthday on your check when you were a kid, but I don't know he's gonna radically signed his name, but it is the perfect
it is like. I would love to
he pulling on this I'd love to see a bunch of really smart consultants and creative types make ads on this too.
Did it seems to be on its face to be the perfect manifestation of how Trump's message is not America first is Trump's first, and I think this can be very powerful, because it's something that people can easily understand
and is very specific to trot because a lot of times, and you talk about trumpeting as political interests first or even its financial interests. First, a lot of the persuadable voters were pretty skeptical of politicians. Are both parties will say? Well that's what every politician right mode
Politicians are kind of corrupt every politician care more about their election, anyone else, but delaying it
check so that they can write their name on. It is something that is very specific to trap. That is why our trump is uniquely bad in this area, and
I'm very just see the self play itself out of a campaign. Try it again- and you know Charlot pointed this out many times in the in the research. The key here is the delay of the checks. The inability to get the Czechs like trumps idea to put his name on the checks in the first place, is fucking absurd by you in theory. You could see it as a smart political play, that is, people get their tracks and they see the name Donald Trump. They say. Oh Donald Trump did this he's the one they got me this track, and I feel good about that he's trying to fight for me in this bad economy, but the combination of the checks being delayed, which, of course, you know, Donald Trump denies and the system for getting the checks being slow and not working and people like Stephen Menuhin, I think, was on television the other day saying oh well, this this relief check should get people through the next ten weeks, and you know, I think, a lot of people think of one thousand two hundred dollars is gonna, get them through the next ten weeks. That's a fucking absurd. So I think, as people
continue to sadly, struggle in this economic crisis. The fact that Donald Trump can't seem to fix the situation that you know Republicans are appropriating more money and more relief for people and trying to block it. I think that is going to make this argument even more you no effective against I'll drop. The other big thing that really bothers voters by Trump is the chaos he causes and that has been unfold display in this latest debate over when it is safe to leave our homes and go back to work. Tremble reportedly tell governors today that they can lift locked
If they want, even if there is no plan to ramp up testing or key people safe at work yesterday, he announced that a bunch of business leaders were part of yet another white. Has economic council there's like fifty of these, but most
business leaders then said the way has never notify them before Trump announced it and on a call with Trump later, a bunch of them told them very ready to bring people back to work until there's a plan to keep them safe and ramp up testing which trumped doesn't have. How do you think Democrats should handle this trumps already? Looking to blame democratic governors in the media for wanting to keep people say,
during the pandemic and some of his rightwing pals or funding open our state protests in places like Michigan a North Carolina. What you think about this- and we should be very hard
he thought his right wing pals. It is his corporate paddles right. This is
These are groups funded by billion areas like the devices and which is we ve. Seen this play a thousand times. It is billion air funded, populist rhetoric with four put for the purpose of political.
Policies and its notable just gotta get on our rabbit. I hereby
the protests in Michigan, which is one of the absolute hot spots of the country. There is this: I saw this tweet of a person. I will now remember to credit.
By the top two stories and adding it was the Detroit Free press website yesterday were Wine
You know groups protests Governor Whittemore stay at home order to open,
Scouting ice rings to store bodies omega, which speaks to this.
But I so I think their couple things about this one is. I think that there is a trap here. The Democrats can fall into because this like this, is being framed successfully by tromp. As I want open the economy. Democrats do not
I want to help you economically Democrats, United, that the best thing for John the situation would be to never get his wish.
It would be just seen as a person who push for it and then being stopped from by Democrats in
egghead scientists and elites and everyone else
so he can say he forfeit about having to suffer the consequences of the decision he was fighting for. That's that's, that's been his place and twenty sixty right. He he doesn't care if, but he can't deliver on any of the promises that he's made. He Prob,
we know, as most of them are absurd. He merely wants to be seen as fighting for the wall, even if he doesn't build the wall fighting China, even if he continues to get role by China like it's all about perception. He just wants to be perceived as the one fighting on behalf of the average person against all these a lettuce, liberal forces. That's his whole fuckin story at so never. I think that this cannot be trumpets open it down,
I keep a close its everyone wants to get people back to work. But Democrats insists that tromp have a plan to do so. He does not have a plan.
The aim is not in
in the months that we have been sheltered in place. Trump has not done anything to build up the testing capacity. We need you to simply is not built up the infrastructure to do the sort of contact tracing you need to do is that if you want to keep people safe, you need a plan to do so.
I think that's one parliament with the other parties we should be very clear. Trumped does not want to clinical where people go back to
he wants to allow companies to force
employees to go to work in the middle of a pandemic, so yeah.
Not you no longer have a choice between your paycheck and your house, and
We know that that is once time, because these very same groups were funding these protests. You are pushing trump to clinical, open. The economy are this:
in groups pushing Congress to pass a law that would prevent them from being sued if any of their employees.
Get sick or die after they forced me to go back to work, which I think he says everything about what is happening here. You shouldn't have to choose between your health and your paycheck. That's the message for Democrats and Donald Trump and his corporate friends want you to have to make that choice. They want you to force you to choose between your job in your life and Democrats. Believe there should be a plan in place so that everyone can go to work safely, and you can talk about all the possible ways that that plan could be coming to fruition right out. We have the ramp up testing. We have to ramp up contact. Tracing employers have allowed responsibilities to make sure that workplaces are safe for people, and I do think that that refrain, where's the plan where's the plan is gonna, be the best way to sort of re frame. This argument, so it's not Donald Trump- wants to fight to keep the economy open. Democrats, don't
I do think this was interesting from this week's navigator pulling, which is a sort of consortium of progressive groups that have been doing a daily tracking Paul. They asked in thinking about the impact of corona virus on you, which you more worried about you and your family's health and well being or you in your family's financial situation.
Health one. Seventy two twenty eight- and that includes seventy six percent of Democrats and sixty nine percent of Republicans, but then they are
it's an independent, saying, they're more worried about the impact on the broader economy, which I does I do think is a warning for them
our economy as a whole. It's fifty five. Forty five health, with a majority Republicans and independent, saying they're, more worried about the impact on the broader economy, which I does I do think, is a warning for Democrats to make sure that you and again it goes back to the poem governs issue we had with Charlotte to make sure you personalize the impact of what's happening on people's family on their health on their finances like it has to be, has been more personalized
about than it in an argument about open the economy are done. I think it's right. It is easy to look at the pulling right now. Are you see huge majorities of people couldn't usurers Republicans supporting the social distancing say
that we should continue it for some period of time.
And it's easy and important to look at these protests are happening in to inform the public and inform reporters that this is not enough.
The case is just a grassroots uprising of normal citizen.
It is a billion, are funded. Grasped hops operation by, I think,
should not be overly sanguine about our political position over the long term.
So we have to democratically very
specific civic, that we want to open the economy, we have to frame who trumpets fighting for its for employers and employees, and I think we need to set specific benchmarks for what trump needs to do in order to be able to Quantico openly
me and like they're, much different plans out there. Tat has a plan or other plans, but I think it would be helpful for us to come to a conclusion of we need
some out of tests available on a daily basis with turned around and why not have time or we
the following structures set up, or we need this amount of funding to do this, because
The is one thing to say, and this is working,
benefits from his briefings that you need a plan that he goes up there and just spouts off a bunch of dishonest and out of context numbers about ventilators and testing kids and abbot labs in all those things,
By he currently is so far from what we actually need. We have to tell people what he actually needs so that it puts in context and Amber said he is spouting out at this briefings. Everyday yeah. That's right, where's the plan
right? That's all. We have heard today thanks again to Charlotte Swayze from data for progress for joining us, and we will talk to you guys on Monday, by everyone,
pod. Save America is a product of cricket media, the executive producer
Michael Martinez, our system producer is Jordan Waller its mixed.
Edited by Andrew Chadwick Kyle Segment is our sound engineer. Thanks to town you so Maneater, Kate,
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Transcript generated on 2020-04-17.