Trump spends the weekend picking fights with our biggest trading partner (Mexico) and our closest ally (the U.K.), the mass shooting in Virginia Beach puts gun control proposals back in the spotlight, and the Democratic candidates for president descend on California to make their case. Then London Mayor Sadiq Khan talks to Tommy about Trump’s U.K. visit, and Cherokee journalist and activist Rebecca Nagle talks to Tommy about her new podcast, This Land.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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download the app for free today and put the power Ziprecruiter technology to work. For you. Welcome to pod, save America, I'm John Fabric, I'm John love! It on the floor later in the pod Tommy's interview with London, Mayor City Khan, who made time for us this morning to talk about President Trump's visit to the UK by all accounts going
he's pumped about it.
So here conversation time he had with Rebecca Nagel the host of Cricket Medias Brand new podcasts out today this
plant? I've had so many people text me this morning to say they were listening and loved. It, that's fantastic,
to this land, if you haven't subscribed,
What are you even doing to be
but listen through the entire podcast for Tommy's interview and then go download that first episode, but first we get a lot of news to get through from Trump's latest trade text. His trip to the UK to all the way
two thousand and twenty news also a reminder we will be on the road this week on the t words you're, going to be able to hear our Thursday night show in Chicago on Friday and our son.
Show in DES Moines on Monday and there still tickets to come, see us at those shows an in Minneapolis at cricket, dot, com, slash events going home, the DES Moines Home to DES Moines, maybe I'll find the truck that I abandoned at a gas station in two thousand and seven
that would be wonderful yeah. I don't think so. In one thousand nine hundred and ninety four f one hundred and fifty in the tranny went so I just left it there. This happened.
But it's going to show you. The apple is live in in the clover jar. I mean the club love in the club. One night only
lots of great stuff going on the store. Okay, let's get to the news on Friday,
Trump announced that he will raise tariffs by five percent on all goods coming from Mexico quote until such time,
illegal migrants coming through Mexico and into our country, all capital letters stop the president said
in Mexico doesn't comply. He'll raise the tariff an extra five percent every month until it hits a maximum of twenty five percent. Even Trump's own
economic adviser recently admitted that american consumers pay the price for these tariffs, which will affect everything from cars to electronics, computers, alcohol, lots of different shit lot of guys. What are the other potential consequences of Trump's new trade tax,
mazing leadership, everything getting better yeah, it's them. I mean it's, it's gonna make it. People
you saying the goal: avocado prices, you know it's like mostly auto parts and all the beers we drink, coronas to Sekiz like a lot of consumer goods, that a lot of people like are going to go up if you live in Texas Alot of in,
it's from from Mexico are going to be more expensive, and so I don't know a a big picture. This makes us look like a pretty unreliable trade partner writ large. He just negotiated the NAFTA to point out. The Us Mca thought we have that behind us and he's arbitrarily slaps
escalating tariffs on Mexico to deal with a immigration problem that is actually coming from other countries in Central America. That seems
crazy! Yeah! You hear a lot of when you read about analysis of this people say: oh, it's going to disrupt the supply chain, which is something everyone's like what
Does that mean that was in the model? Here is an example of that the american auto industry is you just said they
american auto industry right now is facing the most layoffs over the last four months that they've seen since the great recession, which is when the auto industry almost collapse completely and a lot of parts in american cars are imported from Mexico and that happen.
That that's what they mean when they say the supply chain? There's all these american manufacturers, the head of the American Manufacturing Association, said they would be devastating consequences for american many factors, because this because so many different parts in so many different manufactured goods and this
country come from Mexico, not just number. They go back and forth like yet we built a big system and it's not a perfect system in there plenty of reasonable criticisms, and it's interesting that you see some of the criticism of Trump's proposed replacement for NAFTA kind of coming at him. Saying things like you know, we don't know this to be a good enough deal for american workers. Everybody recognizes that there's been blow back because of NAFTA, but one of things we built is that international system across our southern border, where it's supposed to be open things, go back and forth products start in Mexico and up in the? U S, go back to Mexico to be completed products starting next that you know they stop products start us go to Mexico, come back like things move across the border as they're constructed as we built this international system of of trade, in which I border is supposed to be more open, so so to introduce this very simplistic notion that we're just gonna stick at attacks on things coming in
allied how complicated international trade has become in part because of the you know, agreement the United States has been privy to for the last thirty years. Yeah I mean on a micro level. We are just making it really hard to do. Business like, for example, go pro just moved a bunch of its operations from China to Mexico. To avoid terrorist
and then they wake up in the morning and they read about this new tariff.
Mexican and how we're going to see what happens when a dog
goes to the Grand Canyon right, exact
on a on a macro level like this could actually start to hurt the economy. You know like yeah, it's been weird watching the
trade war unfold, because there are a lot of dire warnings and then the markets just kind of absorbed
Slow escalation were all bunch of boiled frogs, but Josh Barro wrote a smart piece this weekend, where he talked about how some economists think
the latest iteration of China Tariffs in Mexico. Tariffs could hurt GDP up to a percentage point which is like that's uh
big deal for someone. If I were Donald Trump and I were trying to run a reelection campaign, I thought
maybe a little more worried about the general economic sentiment in the country. Then, whether my base thinks I mean enough to immigrants. I feel like it's a really solidified the case studies, uh huh,
verbal person, anyone who lives south of the border yeah
I think he understands the economics
around trade to say that to say the least, but yet to Josh's piece was very good, because I think up until now, a lot of these terrorists have affected. I think you said, like you know, seven percent of the imports of ten percent of the airport exports are some some low percentage of imports and exports in the country. So therefore it's a small percentage of the overall economic output, but when you're getting up to, if we get up to twenty five percent tariff for Mexico and yeah
twenty five percent tears for China, which he is certain to China to now you're talking a significant chunk of the economy. I mean already american how's, the
american household has paid about eight hundred and thirty
one dollar more because of higher prices due to tariffs, and they think that these new there's an estimate that these new tariffs could cost. Seven hundred and fifty five thousand american jobs in Mexico,
that is a lot better evaporates, any value from his crappy tax cut for the average family, and it also I mean yeah Trump's numbers on trade. I mean Harry Enten from CNN, did a piece on how Trump's
approval on trade issues generally are actually down from where you started. So people aren't looking at his track record and thinking this is going well. In fact, it's hurting. How do you think Democr
talk about this. And how much are they talk about this? Because I do think you know it's tough. Obviously, the consequences could be devastating.
Economy a? Could a road trumps advantage on the economy that he's had in polls as you've, just pointed out with that, you know, Harry's analysis on his numbers on trade but, as we also know trade, a sort of a complicated issue to talk about, and you know what you think Democrats today yeah I mean- I think it's some. I think it's similar to immigration in that. I think you can talk about this as a strategy. That's failing right, like you know,
getting some as long as we're in the trade war, he can claim any problem. You have a China or any problem you have with Mexico. Is why he's doing this right?
Then you go down the list of things he's trying to achieve with China and he's just not getting that he's not getting what he wants out of this trade war. You look at what's happening with Mexico, he's now sort of goal that I'm going to put a tariff on this unless you deal with a systemic,
multi decade, long failure of our immigration system
I don't know how you can look at that. I mean he may be able to declare some kind of victory if they're sort of a natural trend in a reduction of migrants try to cross the border because of that and the seasonal change in the
where people come to this country, but for the most part you know you look at the actual list of things he wants they're, not totally crazy demands right to have Mexico, do a better job securing its southern border to Mexico.
I came, for example, you're, not remembering 'cause, he wouldn't he didn't lay they didn't leave them out anyway, with Mexico is no idea what standards it has to reach right now, they're sending their foreign minister to the United States for some emergency meeting to try to figure out what the fuck they have to do. Even Mulvaney said when asked what is the goal of this set of TAROT, so we're going to evaluate that an ad hoc basis they want to see Mexico do something to reduce the number of migrants coming in to do something along its southern border to help them with the asylum situation along the southern border, which makes him look to do, but they don't know what they're supposed to do to prevent this out. Come from
Ray Mulvaney, went on meet the press about bunch. Sunday shows this weekend to one humiliate himself further by just being an asshole and pretending that it's okay to move a ship named after
John Mccain, because you're rise at Prek got us. He said the catalyst for the surprise tariff on Mexico was
is a video of a thousand migrants coming from Tijuana cross the border into us in this major incident? In that just like that's how
your trade policy that Ray just got Trump's racist dander up,
so that is either like. So I guess the case I'll be making is about immigration, which is
the China Trade WAR is a whole separate problem that might create massive economic problems. This incident with Mexico feels like he has set up a situation where he's going to get some minor concession and then declare win on it. I think we need to be making a case against him. That he's been president for a couple of years. In his immigration policies have failed. The maximum cruelty policies have failed. The Democrats need to go after and hammer him on it yeah. I think I would make it. I would link it to a broader economic case against the president were Democrats I would be doing events with the farmers in the Midwest have been hurt by this I'd be going to auto plants right now. I'm going with
doing, events with auto workers. I was talking about how you know: average families auto workers, farmers they're all being hurt by Trump's economic policy while
c e o's big corporations have never done better yeah. There's a study out last week the corporations paid ninety billion dollars less in taxes. As a result of this tax cut, and you know
Profits are doing better than ever and they all use the the tax cut for stock buybacks and everyone's doing great on Wall Street and most of the people in the middle of the country
getting fucked and and in for Mexico to EL, it will devastate a lot of these border communities, communities that
show with a lot of trade for Mexico. They there are number one trading partner. The other question is
the mexican government stop asylum seekers from traveling through their country? To the US,
don't really know the answer, but I don't think that a punitive reaction that punishes the country of Mexico is going to solve a much broader systemic problem. That starts with incredibly unsafe northern triangle countries where people are going to leave
no matter how mean we are to the mexican government period and there's an international right to asylum, to seek asylum that Mexico wants to honor its also we've seen a few immigration plans from overwork from Castro that include as part of their plan to help countries in Central America and to help Mexico deal with the flow of people. There's a kind of Trump's all stick, no carrot right, and it's also it's also like slapdash in mercurial like there is a you could imagine a disciplined right wing, Ravon, just administration that hates brown people with a sophisticated plan to try to kind of punish Mexico if it doesn't help while providing rewards to Mexico to try to help them manage the process to like actually achieve apology outcome. But when it comes to trade deals where it comes to the IRAN deal when it comes to the Paris accords, there's no stick! No carrot! It's all! Just you shoot the hostage
You punish Americans without a clear plan for how to get out of it. You pull yourself out of the deal without a clear plan to replace it with something better. That's what he knows how to do. He knows how to lash out. He knows how to walk out of the room is what to do with closely. It will do with anybody. Donald Trump knows how to walk out of the room and he doesn't know how to actually make a deal in the room except it like. There's no
situation, there's room room to walk out of like the border still there that is going to happen. You know so, like I you're right. That's what he's trying to do VOX suggested that trumps trying to get Mexico to sign with them as a safe third country agreement, which says that basically Mexico's a safe place for people fleeing from Central America to just stay there for those central american migrants fleeing will not be entitled to asylum hearings. That's a pretty, devious, cruel way to treat a bunch of people, because I don't see anyone suggesting that just parking in Tijuana is remotely safe, that's incredibly unfair, on safe thing to those people yeah. So, in addition to his trade wars with China and Mexico, our chief diplomat is doing his best to
with politics in the UK during his visit there this week in an interview with the Sunday Times, Donald Trump said, Britain should be okay, with a no deal brexit and walk away from the EU. If they can't get favorable terms, Prime Minister, Theresa may is scheduled to step down the list of those angling to succeed. Her includes former foreign Secretary Boris Johnson
who trump praise during his interview, the president also said that Nigel Farage should be involved in the brexit negotiations. Tell can you talk about the state of brexit politics right now and what's going on in the race to succeed, Theresa may just so, we have some set up.
For Trump's visit. Sure I mean Theresa may worked for years to try to put forward a brexit plan to try to get that through parliament and it was rejected several times, so she finally decided to step down.
On and now there's a race to figure out to see who will lead the Tories after as to that they'll be chosen by you know, let's, let's call it with eight a stupid
it's okay, a older whiter, more conservative faction, will figure out who the next Prime Minister is on the conservative side. So it will on its not likely to be someone good, but that's not going to solve the problem of breaks it I mean they keep punt, they keep blowing through the deadlines with the E. U, and I think the question is whether they'll ever be able to get a deal through whether they'll have to vote again on Roeg's intense, throw back to the people and see if they still really want it or I have what was called a hard break that where the
We just haven't negotiated any of the relevant customs or border issues or anything that would you know if any
You would normally do during a bilateral relationship with another country which would just be like an economic catastrophe would just be as much uncertainty as you can imagine. So it's an ongoing
total mess. Yes is it? What are the consequences of a no deal, brexit or hard brexit? That they're talking about? Is that just ask I mean I don't know
all of them, but like one example, is what happens to Northern Ireland's right
right now between Ireland, Northern Ireland there's an invisible border because Northern Ireland, for the? U K the Republican Republic of Ireland as an independent country in part of the e? U, if the? U K exits? The e? U you need some sort of border between the two countries, all of a sudden for customs and what not, but that's like a incredibly fraught thing to do, because the good Friday,
man, which ended the you know. Decades of terrorism in Northern Ireland
was designed to soften that border and increase access and travel between the two sides. So you could reignite.
Troubles, reignite the IRA and all the things that we saw in the 90s and 80s that were so horrifying. So like there's all these second or third order effects. There's all these massive economic impacts of a hard brexit and like I don't think anyone can really predict what all of them are. I certainly can't, but it would no one thinks
that's a good way to run a railroad and what is Trump trying to do here, aligning himself with both those like Boris Johnson and for Rosh what it? What is he he's he's now he's you know interfering in british domestic politics. What's his what's his goal here,
that's a hard question. Is the aligning with these people running with people that, like him against the people that don't like him
this is like right, wing, populous around the world or his buddies kind of thing or what's going on there, I mean I look your guess of what his motivation is is
his mind. I mean he basically said Nigel Farage came to event. I did he was really liked him. It was exactly what love is just so I don't. I don't think it's very complicated he's sympathetic to people who are not
women who are racist, so it's kind of works itself out,
cons, OP, Ed, Amir Khan of the Mayor of London. We talked about the fees for Quest Assam, really tied trump to you other far right leaders in Europe, like Viktor Orban and and Marine Le Pen, and sees this as a scary, global movement- I think, is right. We were talking about this before the pod Tommy, but I find myself very unsettled by
by Americans up at reading it agreeing with all of it, but then realizing that he's writing an op ed about a foreign leader who is our leader like it was very, very sort of upsetting to see a foreign leader talk about the United States and the lead
United States is chosen in a way that is completely accurate, yeah
I mean look, I mean he said that he said that our president is a global threat, which I believe too, but when someone else has it, that's not in your countries are like. Oh yeah. It was a little weird for me to interview him because I agree with what he wrote, but it is a strange feeling
to talk to a foreign leader about a really rough criticism in american president. That said, I think one of the things that we've failed to do is just speak honestly and bluntly,
he did in that out. That definitely isn't party has, I thought the same thing. He made a global case for why nationalism in these far right parties are dangerous and I think it was
compare a case I was like I could. I would love to hear a Democrat make a case this. I'm not your Democrats make all kinds of their cases idea. Well, no it there is I'm some in there if there was a conversation about some of the protests that are happening in London against crime and what I appreciate about one of the organizers is, they said you know we're not doing this because we don't we're not opposing and protesting trump, because we don't like America. We feel that we're doing at
because we want to because we actually like America and we like american values, and we don't believe this president represents those values. So I'm glad that that is at least part of this. You know it is
Amir Khan made that point as well as open, and it you know it's it's it's shameful. It is shameful to send Donald Trump to represent us. It is shameful that there's a giants below
soon baby flying over London of our President in a fucking diaper. It's all it's all embarrassing. It's embarrassing to have him call Megan Mark
nasty, and it's embarrassing even talk about that. To have him compare city content, build of Lazio, 'cause like no one deserves that, and it's embarrassing.
Does kidding bill was his response to that, though, going back to the Cantando, not I think I'm done stop saying kind on what you you, the crescent seen brother here, yeah yeah, that's
The third Krasinski look. I I think that like and I and I talk about this in there I mean I don't think that Donald Trump or Boris Johnson and I as a fraud, is going to up and the historic relationship between the US and, U K their cultural ties. Everyone knows someone who lives in the United Kingdom and vice versa. So that's there, but, like treason, made,
didn't need to give him a state visit that was a naked attempt to kiss his ass and curry favor.
You know he's only the third american present
to receive the honor of a state visit he's hanging out with the queen at Buckingham Palace. Today he's got a private
lunch with her. I wonder what the hell they're going to serve, that the part the parliament was like no way in Hell, you're addressing this body, because they would have booted out of the place. So tomorrow
sees a bit. You know like you get. People are gonna, say what they think about you and and that's how it is. How does the queen get stuck with that meeting of everyone in that color? She survived the blitzkrieg she can get through to get either a lunch with an it's fine. I thought she probably had either way yeah right now, the first rich american press, you that acidic off the table from been around a few,
years, buccaneers or british.
It's it's. A small thing I see is a very big, important issues, but there is something it's a bit: it's a bit like were, you know, were dating someone and
realize that if we weren't dating them, we be just constantly making fun of them
I think I don't think with helping me, but it's like it's like it,
it's sad to know it's sad to know that, like you're sitting at the queen
your your your your your your boyfriend, and then you just know that when the queen goes back to to make funny your boyfriend, you kind of agree. You know I just thought of this. I listen. I I've. I think you sucks till I didn't I don't want to. I don't
you know yeah I, like maybe the tradition of politics and at the water's edge. I guess
is there for a reason, 'cause, it kind of feels right. It feels weird to be criticizing him as he's over in London, but we're past the point of no return. He deserves it. I don't think that we can sit quietly while he tries to spread his
random far right, nationalist garbage politics like it's. Actually,
were there in some european Castle, trying to
kind of color rush into yeah they're, trying to fix in front of trying to victims of castle they're trying to fund in help these kind of parties get power all over the continent and it's dangerous yeah yeah. I mean it's a shame.
The american president is a threat to the global world order and one of the most dangerous and evil people who never empowered, but anyway, until two thousand and twenty
I'm two thousand and twenty at least they don't let him stay at Buckingham yeah. That was the true wind for community
I can't think I yeah that was a british accent. Yet I write in here is doing. Here is a person my stage of Russian, my mistake: it's fine all right before we move on to.
Two thousand and twenty. I do want to mention the mass shooting that occurred in Virginia Beach on Friday, where a dozen people were killed and many more. When did the shoe.
There was a minute municipal. Employee also died and was found with a forty five caliber handgun extended magazines in a silencer
and just as a reminder about how important state and local elections are. The Washington Post reported that in January, Republicans in the Virginia Legislature defeated a bill that would have banned the sale of high capacity magazines like the ones the alleged shooter used in Virginia Beach. Guys do, you think, were the reasons that the coverage of mass shootings like these moves on so quickly now is because our politics around gun control is so stuck. I mean it did strike me as incredible that this happened on a Friday afternoon.
And even by Sunday you can see the Sunday shows all about this. You didn't hear many people talk about Democrats at the at the California convention which about to talk, but none of them really any court Booker mentioned it Cory. Booker should get a lot of credit because he his whole hidden. Most of his speech was about it. So most people of the
decided to no avail but other statements on Friday, and then that was that you know yeah I mean it's, you know, there's we know we. We tend to sometimes get the direction of bombs and solutions backwards. In that you know, people tend to care about a problem when they believe they can solve it, and so I think there is a sense of hopelessness, gripping and there's also just this natural equilibrium, which is a heinous thing, but the more mass shootings there are the less deserving they are of coverage in the sense that they are more common and less news worthy and yet also at the same time, the more coverage
shootings got the more that may lead to the inspiration of other mass shooters, so we're in this sort of delicate murder equilibrium where, when they get more coverage, they start to happen more when they happen more, they get less coverage and we're just sort of trapped in this cycle. It's also it's just hard to it's hard to shock us anymore. I mean the the LAS Vegas Shooting killed, fifty eight people and wounded four hundred and twenty two or more. If you count people harmed in the panic in the stampede that resulted in it's like if an event that shocking and terrifying doesn't change something immediately in our country, the way New Zealand,
This horrific shooting Christchurch did like what the will so it it's hard for me to even I just get so angry when I read the stories and I feel incredibly frustrated and and the and angry about it, but, like I don't know why I guess I should focus my rage and say one credit score Booker for making a speech at the California convention, because he he had the chance to make the case for himself and his campaign to five thousand devoted activists in he instead decided to make it about the issue of violence and how we respond as a nation come together not about self, and I really think it was. It was impressive, inspiring and and good for him to. I think we should talk more about some. The candidates. You put four proposals to you: take executive actions to deal with gun violence, so Comma Harris's been out in front of that and it's important third, I mean, I think it's we should thank MIKE Bloomberg and every
town in moms, demand, action for funding and then working twenty four slash, seven on these campaigns to put in place common sense, gun safety laws and to go right at the NRA, because, because of them, because they're funded and financing this grassroots energy behind them were actually making progress for once, and it doesn't feel as shitty
as it used to. But you know, look I didn't mess. I want to talk about this issue today because it is so hard and it does feel really defeating at Times yeah- and I I do think you mention this time, but the the the Good NEWS in this cycle is. I think the democratic presidential candidates are talking more about gun control in general and and more importantly than talking about it, putting up policy proposals to address the issue more than they have in the past. Booker wants to establish a national gun licensing program. Kamel has talked about a series of executive actions. You take mandating background checks in banning imports of air fifteens Swalwell, whose may reducing gun violence. A centerpiece of his campaign has proposed a mandatory gun, buy back program for military style weapons. So we have a. We have a couple candidates here. Who've propose some pretty far reaching things. I do think, like you said Tommy, the ones that are proposing executive actions like Kamel are our most interesting to me because you know we live through the Obama administration and
We see this all the time, but when a universal background check bill that was sponsored by Joe Manchin and Pat Toomey, conservative Republicans are paid to me, couldn't get through the Senate. I don't know what can gather sandy hook after sandy hook, afters after children were murdered. I don't know what can get through Congress, and so I do think that when it comes to exact actions and express on gun control, the next president democratic person should have a whole slew of them ready. The other thing- and this goes back to the Virginia case his you know. We started this gerrymandering fund to help flip to state legislatures as of their democratic, so that we can re draw these districts. But the other reason that state and local elections are so important is because some of the
sweeping effective gun control. Measures that have passed over the last couple years have happened on the state level and in the Virginia legislature right now, we're talking about a few seats for Democrats to take control of the whole legislature and then I'll have to take control the governorship and imagine what can happen if a democratic legislature in a Denver.
Governor can sign a bill on universal background checks on banning high capacity ammo, that that makes a real difference, so you can donate to Jerry, go to votesaveamerica dot com, fuck
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And have no and you don't want to be sitting there, stop to stop to stop pushing it around and everyone is waiting for you they're, trying to get by yelling and you're like no
gonna go. I I I mean I have it. I got it. What are you laughing at? I'm not sure either. I think you, I think you heard in you into their keys a child. I think about a million.
People are the innuendo flows in the innuendo. Don't worry about it! That's perfect! Six are designed to
lifetime. But if any of your suitcase breaks away stand up, customer service team will arrange to have it fixed or replaced a
the one hundred day. Trial on here sometimes have trouble getting the suitcase into the overhead uh. You know it's tough to do your podcast when one of your hosts is just such a fucking, Bro total Bro, that's just the biggest bro.
You kidding me how we're just trying to like talk about the news, read the Mets and then we got fucking day my voice. Is you got fucking frat boy, John love it over. Here I be to shut the fuck up, I'm just trying to read so I made
habits making far Joe. I think he had a teenage boy that was yesterday. I was Tommy. Listen to that love in this
into the little listen to the lilt in my fucking voice. I did not get called gay in high school for four straight years to be called a bro on my own podcast
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for twenty dollars off a suitcase, ok, okay, let's talk about the twenty twenty primary that
immigrated candidates descended on California over the weekend for the State Democratic Party convention, an move, on's big idea summit. California is obviously home turf for Senator Kamala Harris who had a big presence at the convention and got a great reception, but the biggest applause went to Senator Elizabeth Warren, who also turned out six thousand people at a town hall in Oakland on Friday night Warren also appeared to take a
Piper Joe Biden during her convention speech. When she said quote some say: if we all just calm down, the Republicans will come to their senses, but our country is in a time of crisis. The time for small ideas is over. Bernie Sanders also took a shot at by it.
Biden. By noting his absence at the convention in saying quote, we cannot go back to the old ways. We've got to go for it with a new and progressive agenda. Let's start with Kamel Harris between polling in the convention this weekend, it seems like she has a little bit of it home turf advantage, but she certainly doesn't seem like
the front runner out here in California. What you guys think of that, and and what do you think of what she had to say this weekend and and her presence at the convention just in terms of home town at home field advantage? I do think just politics as nationalist and I just don't think that that's as important as it once was end of all states. California is a tough one to have him say
management because it's like you, know a joke. It's a lot of people are larger than most countries, so it's hard to have at home state advantage. I think, as a senator- and I don't think that is just going to lie to her. I think we'll see a similar they'll be questions about whether Elizabeth Warren has any kind of home field advantage in New England, and I think that's hard to justify. So I just think in terms of this idea of home field advantage. I think that that's not as important as it once was just as we're all watching the same news.
At the same time, yeah I mean I think people were making note of the fact that it was also San Francisco based events and that's where she came up politically. So people thought that you know you might have a political organization to really pack those rooms and it didn't seem like she did that. That said, I don't think we should
too much of the enthusiasm or lack thereof, from like six thousand people in her room? It's a small,
what I noticed about Warren speech that impressed me was. I thought that she didn't just: do you a litany of trumpet tax and stayed a bunch of things that every single Democrat in the race stands for she made a broader case that was about corruption in Washington, and I thought that actually had people revved up and and really excited and and Booker did a similar thing like he made a much broader speech. That was a a critique of, but a brand of politics. He was a good
we could in action, it was a critique of thinking, small, and I thought that seemed to really impress the crowd. It's interesting. We're going to have a lot of these known they have been done in the past, is cattle
Kohl's where you have a bunch of democratic candidates at one event, and then everyone compares them right and
we're going to have a whole bunch of these in the primary in a field this crowded in a primary, that's become this nationalized. It becomes even more imperative to stand out at these events, and the question is
How do you stand out and you can stand out by making a case for your candidacy that differentiates you from the rest of the fields that tells a story about why you should be running an employee
he talks about why other conditions- and you saw Warren Bernie to some extent, booted judge to this as well sort of take jabs at Joe Biden or the centrist candidates in the field trying to start drawing lines, Kamilla sort of went up there and she you know she. She really had the biggest applause line of the.
Weekend. When she said you know, we need to impeach Donald Trump, but that was an applause line and you don't,
really know what the rest, the you know, the rest of his speech was more the standard, democratic, fair and a lot of the candidates did that as well
and so I do think that Donald Trump is. This point is sort of just something you throw on at the end just to get the crowd
champs interested the energy and she did and she did. You know it's interesting. I feel like a lot of the conversation about the war in crowd in Oakland was about the comparison to Harris, but I think it's actually less important for what it means for Kamala and more what it means for Warren. I do think you know I notice on the road there all a crowd as a self selecting sample, and it also be taken with a grain of salt, but I do think there is
kind of in through the Azam for Warren. That is growing and maybe not manifesting in the polls, but there does seem to be a kind of excitement about her candidacy that I think, is masked by a little bit of the worries about her electability and all that's conversations that we've been having. But when you see a crowd that big, I mean think when you see the response are like when she talks about pride when she tweets out a Jeff of herself at a pride parade, there's a kind of love for her amongst a set of Democrats. That I think, is interesting and important, and I think the question is that I'm always trying to figure out is how big is that set of Democrats, because you
one of my complaints about boundary before we started doing this was that it's a bubble right course, and our crowds are self selecting the people who show up at a California convention or very self. Selecting- and you know, like you say
look at the polls. It hasn't necessarily materialize the she's been gaining in the polls, so the question is: does the does the net the media coverage is getting, which has been very positive lately? Does that start translating into movement among the polls from people who aren't paying attention to the race? Quite as closely as we are some of the activists in the democratic base? That's I think we have to figure out and
I, I suspect it will because it tends to be a lagging indicator, but I I think the elephant in the room, or in this case not in the room, was Biden. He didn't speak at the event,
and that was certainly noted by some of the speakers and then the young
exit interview with Bernie, where they basically said you know. Do you think that if buying is nominated, it could lead to a defeat like two thousand and sixteen in Burney said. I fear that it could be. I really do. I fear that you could have a campaign without a lot of energy without a lot of excitement, and that seems like that's the case. A lot of these guys are going to make against Biden that he is centrism or that he is. The safe choice
I don't know whether that's true or not, but I do know that if it is not in these rooms making the case in response he's going to lose, that
right. So I'm wondering, when they're going to have him out there or what the argument is not to have him at these major events where you're talking to some key activists yeah. I also that there's,
I wonder what you guys think about the other dynamic is the Bernie Warren Dynamic, because you know they have. You know they're both progressives out there sort of going after some of the same pool of voters, though I I imagine both and would say their pool is much larger than just progressives, but you see them both trying to go after Biden, because they it benefits both of them to be the one who's taking on Joe Biden because they get more media coverage. But how do they differentiate from each other or do they even need to? At this point I've? I were the the thing that I found interesting as I do that that that multiple candidates have all at the same moment realize that it's that Joe Biden can serve as a stalking horse for what they're running against you is really really dangerous for Joe Biden, and you know it is like that that is going to be something that you can starting chipping away to support
in a way to support and to me it is actually really effective for them. So it makes sense to me that Bernie and Warren would kind of make their same critique at the same time for a while. I don't know if at some point that ships, but for now when they, when the biggest pool of voters, is sitting in the by the number like that. Just makes a lot of
and that the danger there is- and we've seen this happen in previous races, if you're, the one who is most strident going after the front runner. Sometimes that could damage you because remember
whether job you know whether you like to buy it or not. His approval ratings among Democrats are very high and so most democratic voters. If you ask them, even if they don't want support Joe Biden, they like Joe Biden, and so you have to be very careful at how you attacked Joe Biden or how you draw contrasts with job. It's like that. It's like v planned they've just there.
They just want somebody to launch the negative attack, but either one of them wants to do it. Yes, I do. I could see this ending up that would just like, with that kind of using burning
the kind of battering ram, they're, all kind of a grab on to the back of his jacket into sort of run forward, pushing him ahead. Like I like, I like I. What's that what
the thing at the front of the locomotive called cowcatcher. You know to sort of knocking off things cowcatcher.
Never heard it called the cow catcher the little thing in front of a train, cool, cool, dark, sorry, I'm salt of the earth. I know what those things are, not for sure it didn't seem
very afraid. Either, though
the cases are different. Warren and and Bernie are sort of making cases from the left, although even though
Case of different warns is about the system and sort of Washington in the system. Bernie's is more about progressive ideas and then booted judges cases more past future, and it was interesting because it made me think of Obama's case in a weight against Hillary was sort of a combination of past future and running against the system
there's kind of a combination of Warren and and PETE's case. I could see the I can see it being very useful to all the candidates to have someone out there saying the Biden
ability, argument is actually quite weak and dangerous, and and and that being valuable, as other candidates are making more substantive policy case. I just think that's. That is a like it. Click for me, as I was seen as we can because like that is that is an assault on Biden. I have in all directions: yeah, none of the ball back falling on just one of
opponents said that to me like he does nominate, he can have it. You know he can go out and win it. It really is there for him, and the burning critique to me is some poor like what are you going to do to like get young people excited about your cancer? What are you gonna do on policy? What are you gonna do in terms of the tenor, your campaign to kind of show, people that you're not just going to play it safe that you're going to kind of lead this big movement yeah and also look what's your theory of what's wrong with our political system today,
ahead of a funny story that Joe Biden has been saying, this is not your father's Republican Party since two thousand six, it's always been true. Well, it may put any probably stole it from that. What's this is not your father's Oldsmobile ad back and God knows where these things are sticky and he's right in a look, it's better that he's saying that than saying Republicans are going to come to their senses and have an epiphany once a Democrat wins are working with us. I guess we're saying is we want? You know he can't be his father, our father, Joe Biden, right,
you know like he has a guy. We get come on man. I just had to say what click for me this weekend, as I just cannot believe that these cattle calls people are gonna have to listen to up to nineteen twenty twenty one. Twenty two speeches that is terrible. There was a not just for the speaker, not just for the people in the room, but for the speakers, if your day
the last like we would. We need to find a system for grading these people on a curve. You can't sit in a room for
and again, ten hours. This is as as all these Kerry to starting to prepare for the debates and honing their debate strategy. If you go into that debate, thinking that you're just going to go up there answer questions be on your message: talk about your policies and that that's gonna make it
prince you're wrong. At the same time, you don't want to be one of those people who gets attention at the debate by lighting yourself on Fire Donald Trump like work for him. It's probably not going to
were Democrat right like Condon
I'm going to get you know, sort of debate or some zinger
during might, nor when I have made the wrong way or some like you know the best singer against Donald Trump, that's not gonna get you noticed, but you've got to find a way at these debates with is going to be ten person. Ten people on stage every night to defer,
ran she ate yourself in a way that advances your candidacy and separates you from the rest of the pack without getting too cheesy or strut.
One of the reasons that going to be challenging for many of these candidates is they don't have that argument? It doesn't exist and they will discover it at the fucking debate. Yeah yeah. This is not your father's Oldsmobile had seems to have debuted in nineteen. Eighty eight,
That was a previous fighting campaign.
Yeah there was a clue that information whatever you want. There is a quiz, ontime dot com where you had to just type in from memory all the democratic candidates and did fun thing.
It was fun that was the one thing. It was fun, though, that that will work was hard to type. I feel like it didn't register my apostrophe properly, so I didn't really get the credit for it. Oh that's a bummer, so the New York Times
Alicia piece over the weekend about California earlier two thousand and twenty primary that quotes democratic strategist, Chris Lehane saying that the best strategy for the candidates who won
in California is still a pretty simple one win Iowa, and I thought this was interesting because
and other times piece over the weekend by Jonathan Martin argued that quote, the explosive growth of social media has nationalized the race and made Iowa and New Hampshire less important than they used to be J Mart wrote the quote. The feedback loop between the in
and it in television news is the most powerful title force in politics, Tommy who's right here
I don't know who's right in this piece. I'm not going to make a prediction. I think it will be very hard to argue that Iowa is not absolutely critical to whoever wins is now
nation somewhere in early February, I mean like there's just no way that you can raise enough money to spend it on a real organization on Super Tuesday to win California, unless you have a ton of momentum
going into it, it's also sort of it's a kind of thing. Well, there's only one way for it to be really shown to be a true prediction, and that is if the nominee of the Democratic Party,
does not do well in Iowa or New Hampshire. I find that hard to believe yeah, I'm very I I'm so with that
to the Dan argument that basically says in the effort to make other states like California, more important in the process. It ended up making places like Iowa and New Hampshire, more significant, because it's so hard to compete in a place like California, it's so hard to get people to knock on doors every day. You know there's so many folks at stake after Iowa New Hampshire that are doing well there will you have a big impact. I think J Mark makes a good point, that bomb social media, cable news and the fact that more people are more engaged than ever before because of Donald Trump and his presidency sort of helps nationalize the primary in a way that hasn't been before, and so you do see these candidates trying their hardest to find these viral moments, and part of that is because there's an incentive to do it because it helps in the national polls. It helps you raise money among grassroots, don't
there's, but I think if we, even if we look back to two thousand and eighteen, some candidates, some democratic candidates running in some of these Senate and House races had these ads. That went viral. Had these viral moments, where, like sensations on Twitter, raised a whole bunch of money and did not win, and some of them did. But I do think that if you asked a lot of these campaigns any of the campaigns democratic campaigns, they would tell you that there is no substitute
for having a ground game and having a real organization in Iowa, especially to a lesser extent New Hampshire in South Carolina. But you know you see Elizabeth Warren
Cory Booker, better O'Rourke, have invested a ton of money in a lot of staff in Iowa people who judge now that he's going to raise a shit load of money is starting to ramp up and put a lot of staff in Iowa
well. I think a lot of these and and Bernie is always had a big organization. I think a lot of these candidates are realizing that if you
you know where it's still early right now in may- and I think it makes sense-
is that right now a lot of them are going around the country go to these different cattle calls going to California. I think if you, this store
is going to look a little different in October November December, but when they are camping out in Iowa for weeks at a time. The other piece of this, too, is it's. It's actually, maybe not so fine, it's not so hard a distinction in the sense that
You you're, when you're campaigning nationally you're campaigning in Iowa to now. You know that that they're part of this nationalization of the politics so
Iowa. New Hampshire can remain incredibly important while at the same time competing nationally is part of how you get votes in early states. When so much of your interactions with candidates are not person to person or face to face, but through twitter, through social media. Through what you see on top yeah, I mean look, I I think PETE Mayor PETE is a top tier candidate because of that so
in town hall, and because he did a ton of the national press better. I would like you to Dan Pfeiffer had as a candidate because of social media, and that- and I fell speech that went by all right, Comma Harris is known to use. We also are viral moment from various hearings.
None of them will be president if they don't do well in Iowa New Hampshire, and I think that is the key to see you I mean and in use in this
Tommy having been in Iowa and and worked in Iowa. I
I wonder if you know, there's a bunch
on viral moment, makes them pay attention to a candidate if a poster calls them they'll, say yeah,
they can in a scene in town hall, and I really like them and I'm interested. I want to learn more and maybe I'd support them. Right now does do those opinions change when you start meeting candidates. One on one in these events is is: is one on one interaction with the cat. It's still sort of the most powerful driver of
vote for them again, well good for better for worse yeah, I mean, I think. Undoubtedly I look. I was pockets corner political junkies. You know they're watching the sea in a town hall, the read the National NEWS right like they're just like us, but
they have this incredible, honor privilege sure
meeting these people one on one- and I do think that like when you see some,
in a room. When you get that some hard questions that will help you make up your mind, yeah, not just like them to decide. Okay, I'm gonna caucus for you, I'm a volunteer for you know. Doesn't we get a little taste of that here in the sense that we had? I think, roughly four thousand?
of the six thousand democratic, and it's come through our office, yeah and third, the way through, and it is like six lined up outside waiting for us to be done.
But I think I see a man with a Condon sign up yeah, that's the calm down sign
is actually there's actually a scientifically. There is no proven example of an organically existing condoms on there are one hundred percent manufactured and carried with the campaign, HA
But you know we see that that candidates come through here and you know they've some. I think there been better interviews and work.
Reviews and even more revealing or less revealing, and we've also seen what they're like when they're interacting with the like forty political junkies that are quick and we excited to meet them and some of them, the charm, the pants off you and some of them. It's like go fish.
Yeah part of part of dug into this week's love it or leave it to here, which is which there it look their candidates, the the the MIKE the cameras turn off like that person. Super cool would love to hang out that person there. Some of those I like guys, you got to take a picture they're here yeah I mean, but let's be honest: let's not
Ok, when we return, we will have Tommy's interview with London, Mayor City Con and be sure to stick around after that interview for Tommy's conversation with this land ho
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Little little reminders get a good once you know somebody semi dollars that put it towards the beef box. Let's see what else someone's really like the full Wiley joke, you know that was during stamps dot com, and what have you done for me a lot of Lee or manages which is in a real winner funny at that you've mints turns into reading. Compliments about your
apparently with his people said it. What other? What else to run into you know. He didn't tell me and nothing. This says I
we joked about getting all the cocaine down the drain and some out awhile ago, but the records that we we quarter so so much now at this point that it just comes, I don't remember any of it. Did I not as I got off you know the guys
you don't think in an ad we talked about flushing cocaine down the toilet. I hope not. I think we did anyway
say hey to my in laws fabric and that's maybe wrap this thing up it.
The character download today download it
when, when on the line, all the way from one
in England is Mayor City Con, Mayor Khan. Thank you so much for joining us today. It's great to be in
on the podcast just apologize at the outset, last year you
Riser in London as part of your European, a tour, and I couldn't make it- and I
I'm really sorry for that, but I'm really pleased I caught up with you too. I want to reassure you, I'm not in
hi bill snapping Americans, just one particular one that I thought
you are incredibly kind,
apologize and it was not necessary at all, but I notice you have a new.
Paypal Name Donald
you you wrote, I
a very long, sternly worded op ed this morning,
Why did you want to make this case about Donald Trump before he touched ground in the United Kingdom
well. The thing that concerns me is: I'm not sure if your listeners realize this, but Donald Trump, basically is the pie.
Just a boy for the far right movement around the world. I
and here I first came into interaction in naturally join his campaign when he basically decided
he was going to ban Muslims from coming into the USA, but it's going to make it
Section for me, because-
who is the mayor of London and the point I made an applied courteous way was: there's nothing exceptional about me. I think banning
It seems I'm going to the USA is a bad policy. I know
many Americans who are proud to be Americans, but also proud Muslims.
And it's not the sort of America, those of us who love America no,
and over the last few months and a couple of years, we've seen a number of policies that
president has announced, but also some of the things that he has said, which
do cause concern to those of us in London, those of us in the UK and those of us in Europe and you'll know, but actually the
the office of the President of the USA is really special is probably one of the most you know is the most unique
in the world the ripples of what he said,
the President of the USA,
the President, you say: does I felt
around the world another
made a number of things he is said and uh causing problems to those of us? You know a number of one thousand miles away and there are also afraid people in hungry people in France, at people in ITALY
people in the UK and across the western world who are
having their views, which are poor and normalized and mainstreamed because of some of the things
Donald Trump has said and done yeah I mean that's what those so anything that the piece was you you make this. This is a global case against him and you tied
name two national lists in far right leaders like Viktor Orban or Marine LE pen, I mean: do you see Trump as a piece of a larger puzzle that is tide together? Somehow? Well it
study. History will just concerned brief, but go back decades. What is the
the far right playbook the far right playbook is. Well you pick on
order communities. You pick on law
online communities in order to manufacture an enemy.
You fabricate lies in order to stoke up fears, or does it need to
at least 2a promotion of hatred of immigrants. It also can lead to we've seen it in the UK
seen it in hungry, France, ITALY under the USA. Sympathy for whites of premises
I you'll the other policies which caused huge concern. You know attack in women's reproductive rights, running back some of them
focused Maiden Og BT rights, and so the assumption we all made is progress.
Is one way and
Patience is being the lack of pace tools,
progress on gender inequality, on L,
Bbt rights on pluralism.
You know the situation, we're not simply are not making progress, but we are going
backwards, and so you know my
This was articulating the views of the just Londoners but
you have many many decent Americans are speaks on a regular basis. Yeah
so? Historically the Us Uk Alliance has been viewed.
Special, extraordinarily close. There are reports that the quarter million people are planning to show up to protest. President Trump's visit. What do you think? That's
says about the state of the Us Uk relationship
important to distinguish what we think about Americans versus
the views. Many lenders and british people have about your current president. It is a fact that not just myself,
many many people in my country, Love America, love, Americans, love the culture, many of us study and revere some of the things your founding fathers said so
plus, you know, love your contemporary presidents uh in more recent times from Roosevelt to Eisenhower from KEN
Of course, the one and only Jed Bartlett. But the point is that,
but you've got situation where many of the things that I've been
said and done by Donald Trump cause huge offense, and I'm afraid it is the case that
you know the reputation of America isn't as great as it has been in the past. Because of the actions of this president, that's not to take away from the fact that will be commemorating the
75th anniversary of the D day landings. You have also the Prime Minister of Canada here
in our country. There are others, come in from Australia,
from New Zealand President Makron, that's really important,
The frustration amongst londoners and other people around the country is that President Trump's been given a state invitation as a state visit
be a state banquet tonight and the view is- and I agree with this view- the red carpet
and all that goes with a state visit- is not an honor that should be best
out on this president yeah, so, first of all tough hit on a president, Santos and J
Smith, who you know does not as well, but tell me the year out that you talked about her as well. Yes, you called on
some may to issue a rejection of this far right agenda and you know said that his views are incompatible british values and I I've course you know. I agree with that. The incompatibility point with her
Spec to the state visit. You know I mean clearly prime minister may made this choice to try to curry favor with the Trump Adminis
early on. I don't know if she believes it's paid dividends. I suspect
but I mean do you worry at all that some sort of rebuke of him, while he's over there, could lead to a vindictive punishment in response like the tariffs he just slapped on Mexico for no
clear reason ready to question a lot of might this in relation to the USA and a special relationship. We
did you see as how best friends as our best mate and
my view is that they expect
we have all a best mate. A best friend are higher than they
as of an acquaintance. So I normal friends, so they
occasions we have each other a higher than we expect
other countries who, on our close allies and with who we don't have a special relationship. That means, surely
you must have a relationship or we can call each other out. We can have a russian honesty and candor, and that means if we think that
friend is acting amount of that's not their interest in our interest. We disagree with it.
We should say: listen, you know what I think you're wrong on issue a on on issue be, of course, upon the
first. He will be with you, but I'm going.
You make a mistake here and he does. My concern is being that our promise
out, your analysis is spot on. It was for self interest, which was the prime minister thought would make her look.
You know like a world leader, particularly with concerns post Brexit, and it's back for
and I think what has led to
situation where Donald Trump at feels he can say and do anything because others will be sick.
And I think it's important uh we're not asking for Theresa. May I'm not asking for it to do sort of Hugh Grant in love actually, but I think
but you know, she's in robust
woman says that I disagree with the rolling back on the rights of women and you know or abortion. I disagree with your views on LGBT
right. I think it's wrong to separate short
from their parents. You know what Muslims can be westerners and
by the way you protectionism
work and I think the concern I have with
top portion at who are becoming popular is rather than addressing the phase people have they play on them?.
You see with Donald Trump PC with knowledge of fraud. You see in hungry, you see in ITALY, you see in France and one of the Christian to have all of my site, the progressive lefties. You know we'll go
the pitch. We go to take home these issues. We've got to address people's faced with to educate the public,
in a non patronizing way. Public education is really important, will be complicated page because we're because we're scared of Upsetting Donald Trump,
engine. Nigel Farage, I mean Mister Mayor when President trumps of ham handedly endorses a far right politician.
Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage. Do you think it helps them
Our are british citizens, okay, with Trump just dive
into your most sensitive political debates time after time. Well, it would
You you an interesting interesting fact, which is when President Obama made the point which every
greeted by the way if the
leave the European Union
Power will be less than it is to,
and I think that you know and present present Obama, not no reason. You were saying that you know you could well be
low down the pecking order, because of your size versus the European Union and the right
bring in the
three nine two, Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson repute.
Isn't having the audacity to make a perfectly reasonable point about. The
all of us leaving Eve low behold. Those very same people who criticized President Obama for quite a interfering with british politics, are now jumping over backwards because president
Trump has said that Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson will be wonderful, fortinbras in case,
one of the prime minister in larger Farage's case should
he didn't you can go Chasen's with the european and put on make to those people is a spokesman for the goose is sauce for the gander. The color,
on hand criticize President a when he says
your country, but then welcome a president be says about a credit because you may well. I can, I think, so, it's up to the conservative membership to decide whether it's a good about thing having Donald Trump's endorsement. Much of your way,
but the next prime minister of a country will be chosen by the british public. He
she will be chosen by conservative Mps and conservative members and they are in their profile,
quite elderly, quite right wing, not representative of the country.
As far as the countries concerned, you know I'm
It is a a huge project. Endorsement have Donald Trump.
Saying that you're his yeah certainly didn't help him hawk trump steaks. So we'll see. So I want to go
you said earlier, I mean what does it mean in your in your view, for progress is to get on the pitch like what can well meaning people do in the United States and Europe to stop the rise of these right wing, populist movements that seem to be spreading across Europe. We've got it set we've
except that there are decent, genuine people who are voting for Brexit who voted for Trump, who voting for
LE pen, in in and on and on windows, where we would accept that we call criticized voters, for
you know, being racist of beans and effect, a very real reason why the virgins
so these leaders and the reason they're doing so is because they're not seeing the fruits of globalization. They seen the consequences and there a need
be about d industrialization. They wired about the pace of change in some of our countries, and so what we have to do is understand that their concern is legitimate and then try and
address them and meet the challenges head on so, for example, if politics
he said you know. Yes, it's true the car factory, where you work
has closed down, but don't worry when I become the president or I
we leave the archimedean I'll reopen them. It's going to be explained in a flight, Curtis RD.
You know you can't now in
Basically, in the Uk Build Bill, Cosby competitive with far e,
or with countries where they've got a bigger market than we have and we are going to realize in countries like ours and the USA, low skilled, low paid jobs are the future of our economies.
We've got to have high skilled, well paid jobs, so we have to think about what
one of the emerging markets, so the green agenda is very important. So in London we have policies too
the needs of climate change, but poor quality and that's needed jobs being created in relation to low carbon green jobs. So we want, you know, people who are
text ivy people who have the skills
they come from London and work with us with the solutions of some of the chai.
Is we have in the same applies to the UK and the USA of the country in the western world week, because I have a future where I work for cities politico aged at is doing you know, which helps with poor salaries because
Realistically, we can't compete with those countries that can do this. These pieces of work much cheaper,
particularly automation. Another thing we should be afraid of the fault in
shuffle issue we should we should serve the wave and make sure I work. Forces are ready, and my crystal among my side is we're not engaging with the public spending time
educating them spending time finding solutions. What we do is vacating their pitch and criticizing the voters for choosing people who play on their fair
and I think we gotta get other picture. That means making an emotional connection with the voter understanding where they come in through
and then meathead on people like Donald Trump, now
frogs and others around the world yeah. Well, we have like three football clubs worth of players on our pitch right now. So if you want to borrow some, we can, you can probably do like a lend lease program go back in time a little bit. So I mean,
talking about the economic future, that's getting complicated by globalism. I mean it. Certainly I think Brexit could make that I can
the future even more complicated how
is that debate, fight
even though it's a call at this point impacted the people you repre,
and in London, and you think, there's an end in sight
I think our country is divided. I think our country is unequal. I think there are similarities between the UK and the USA when you look at the sort of a pulse
of the USA, that voted for Trump we've got a similar comparison in the UK voted to leave the European Union
and that's a problem
and I'm afraid what's happening is unrealistic.
Promises are being made by politicians here, but, like surprise, Johnson, Nigel Farage,
and you know the public voted in support of them would simply be annoyed when those promises aren't men,
they're going to be angry and that's what causes me huge concern. I can't see a short term prosperous future
my country Burnham.
In some of the toxicity of the discussion taking place. Some of the candidates in the conservative-
We are promising that they will
leave the European Union even without a deal catastrophic
the UK economy for job
wealth and prosperity. Big promise to make
What would happen if it doesn't happen if we don't even October 31st, which is the next extension
people going to be angry, and so what it needs to Tommy's the public being further.
Cynical about politicians which makes our life harder's major
positions which allows the far right to exploit this and so
You know, they'll blame the European Union, they'll blame,
In politicians, and what we should really worry about is when you've got officeholders, criticizing judges office holders criticizing the free press office holders
who should be talking about making deals with countries. The importance of multilateralism, walking away from a Paris accord the climate change agreement, walking away
from a deal to remove nuclear weapons from IRAN, walking away from a road map that leads to peace in the Middle EAST, walking away from the European Union. Arguably the most successful trading block
that the world have seen, but also in the last seventy years. You know what we've not had a war.
In mainstream Europe, and so it does worry me at the fact that the the bright part of the spectrum of politics
setting the agenda, but what worries me more is that the fruits of this will be exploited by the far right and these fruits are poisonous yeah agreed
final question, and thank you again for your time. I mean we had this big debate in the United States
only about whether Donald Trump is an aberration of history or just sort of the latest version of the modern Republican
and certainly it's not the first time that race
is in Mars. Xenophobia has driven us politics, unfortunately, that's something we've seen time and time again, but the
conversation does feel supercharged these days by
Fox NEWS in the increasingly white nationalists
that you're seeing on that channel, have you guys
seen a similar evolution in the media in the UK, specifically from me,
Talktone news outlets in your: are they exacerbating the problem in Europe
system? The way Fox NEWS is in ours: lots of sugar
in the UK and the US there's saying we still, which is you know, know the the is
ten years behind the USA set up in the USA we see if years later- and so we've seen in the Uk- is now
what you saw in the USA with the tea party, the impact in on the politics of the republican Party.
You'll see in the UK, the brexit part,
because you know your front is formed in part to the politics of the
go to you'll, see in the the proliferation of social media, completely no checks and balances.
We seen how Facebook can be exploited, we've seen how far
countries can exploit referenda can
use. You know,
automation, bots, to get messages amplified and so to be
concerned. We've got so we've seen, for example, some of the work
the shop in the USA looking in a blessing to be done from the twenty sixteen election,
we know the role now of Russia in that was seen now.
Some revelation about the impacts of constraints so far in
intervention on the impact we know in the referendum in two thousand and sixteen here. So there are lots of similarities, the challenge we have
Somebody who you know position is how we make sure that we reach the public and one of the things we got accepted, Progressive pulled in the last days,
The medium sometimes not immediately find attractive the realities. Many of my voters do read the meta price. Many of my photos, Londoners do go in summer,
this website that you and I might not find it desirable assembly if you want to be the president of the USA and you're a democrat- is a fact
search shipped many voters you to persuade to vote for you watch Fox NEWS Mass One.
London is that we have, and I think we've got a address. It had a I've got no problem talking to media group
sold journalists who work for you, globalization. That being,
I think, it's important because it gets me to a new audience, otherwise would get seven. The meeting is important because without that which is an echo chamber, you know. There's no point me simply speaking to you might try there's no point. Somebody spark to be the next
from the democratic party. Just speaking to his or her tribe. We go to persuade people from another tribe people whose
Home looks at how time devoted full you for the the two
jealousy in my country or for Donald Trump in your country, too.
Back to Austin. So it's really important to do so. There's a there's, a view I have, which is. You know that
is no such thing as our people being
and we just I tried, all people should be the entire lecture and so
that's why we use the tools you've got to expose. Why
well, where lies being told exposed with this fabrication interference exposed.
Close to being broken, but the same time realized that to
national tools, a reaching voters
has changed and as doctors there anymore their animal, we go to evolve to make sure
We continue to be relevant to the voters. Mayor kind. Thank you for your time and thank you for making such a clear case about the
the disconcerting rise of these far right political leaders. It is one of the
issues of our time that I don't think it's talked about enough and I really appreciate hearing from you about it. It's a pleasure
see so excited to be here with Rebecca Nickel, the host the creator, our new podcast, this land
we are here in the cricket media studios, in LOS Angeles, which we have been describing as seventies, cable access. I that's the vibe, I'm getting the
type cool. Why did you want to make this land? I think it's a history
he and his story with really high stakes in the present day that most people don't know about you know, and so, when we're talking about even just the Supreme Court case, that impacts the treaty, rights of five tribes and half the land in Oklahoma, it's barely been covered by the mainstream media and then, when we get deeper into the story, we're talking about the history of are specific tribes like what's
happened to our land in Oklahoma. It's stuff that you know is the foundation of american history, but something that's not taught that people haven't heard about, and so I think in a bigger picture, you know the wall we kind of hit as native Americans is that when our cases are in front of the Supreme Court,
our issues are being debated on the floor of Congress. It
I mean a country where the public doesn't have a basic understanding of what those rights are and what those
the issues are, and so it makes it really hard for us to drum up public support, because we need people to know about these issues and understand them for lawmakers to pay attention. Frankly, yeah lawmakers are probably rather ignore the very ugly history there being present, yeah
or or have the same just blank
ignorance as the rest of the country. I know
you know you have a deep family connection to this story, you're an expert, your journalist activist, but was there anything you've learned that surprised you during the process, I mean, I think
you know we we went out and I think one of the things I'm really proud about about the podcast is just all of the voices that we've been able to bring to the table so from you know,
The chief and AG of Muskogee Creek nation, like our experts, are historians but also like our elders are first language. Speakers like our family, and I think just
turn over again. What I heard from people is just how how important our relationship and our connection to the land
and where we are in Oklahoma, is and how much this case means to everyone. Even the music is,
It's beautiful and yeah. It's me by Chickasaw Composer, draw tape, that's really cool! What do you hope people take away from the show? I mean like big
picture. I want people to kind of have this moment of oh crap, I wasn't paying attention to federal indian law. I wasn't paying attention to what's happening in the courts and the rights of native Americans, and I need to be not just because it impacts native Americans, but because it impacts everybody. You know when the far right wants to tinker
the little piece of the constitution. They used federal, indian law to do it because nobody is paying attention. Yeah I feel like.
There are probably a lot of big monied interest out there who don't want people to listen to. This show yeah talk about who those interests are and what their steak is. In this case yeah, and so I mean like most things- it comes down to money, but basically the opposition. The people who have lined up against the tribes and don't want the tribe to win are the Trump
Ministration oil and gas companies in the state of Oklahoma, and then there are also you know, some like sheriff associations and like cattle ranchers, that also filed briefs. But those are the big players and you know,
Eastern Oklahoma and the land. That's impacted by this case, sets on and one of the country's largest oil and gas reserves. And so, if your bottom line is money and profit, you don't want that land to be tribal lands, and so that's one of the big issues. That's lining up against
rides in this case, but also in general, I mean a crazy statistic that I think most people don't realize is that our tribes occupy two percent of land in the United States and that land represents one slash, five of all oil and gas rigs.
In the US tribes also sit on, like, I think, is it like a.
Third really, I think one slash three to half of coal West of the Mississippi and so
even though we have a small amount of land, there's a vast amount of natural resources, and there is a concerted f.
Open that land up to extraction me to to people who live on those lands feel like there's a target on their back from these. You know big oil and gas companies. I mean, I think, it's a case by
key spaces. Depending on the tribe. I mean it doesn't mean that, just because land is a reservation, no oil is ever drilled there. It just means that it's
complicated and it depends on the land, but tribes often have say in what can happen. I think the big
your picture of what's going on it.
Actually, it's like, tragically basic, I think, there's always been a desire for more and more native land, and even though I think people think that that was like a chapter of history instead of something that's
I'm going and happening today, and so when you look at some of the theories that the far
right is trying to promote in the courts or even some of the policies that the Trump Administration is passing, there's this sort of in goal to get rid of trash
and for there to no longer be sovereign nations within the United States that have these land rights gets a great story, because this is a complicated case right.
Yeah, there's a murder, that's more recent! There's, a murder that happened in the past yeah I feel like justice is a complicated question.
In any discussion like this. But what is justice look like to you in this case yeah I mean, I think, one of the things that's interesting about this case. I think people could hear about it where it's like. Oh my gosh, like their these five tribes in Oklahoma. It's like half the lend an like. Of course, the Supreme Court should give that land back to the tribes. Of course it should be returned and that's actually not. What this case is about. The truth is is that our treaty rights are Lee.
Little rights to that land would never terminated. It was never ended. It was never dissolved by Congress and so we're not asking for anything to be returned or given back we're just asking for our legal rights to our land to
Big knowledged do people who are living this day today have faith in the justice system today
I heard a just a man so overall and our wind re at the Supreme Court is about thirty percent of your tribe and you're, going up to the Supreme Court. You have about a one in three chance of winning. Well, how should we eat additionally brow
beat the shit out of people subscribe and download. This show yeah. So I mean, if you're interested in the story, you want more people hear about it. You can check it out this landpodcast dot com and then subscribe and listen wherever you listen to podcasts and if you do that, like extra step of leaving a review rating
It helps other people see it. That's great and I have to say I was in the first episode. My wife has some select family members have in it's like it's a.
Being amazing stories so beautifully by you so yeah for doing it yeah. Thank you so much for have
Thanks to me,.
What is the oldest? Not your father's is Oldsmobile.
Ninety eight. So it clearly is your father's, almost Oldsmobile or any of our
Those mobile still around, I never had a nose over my life retired at random right. I know that you can get anymore right. I think it's not, and also I I don't understand. What's going on with you ache, I got that. I wish you a two mile if you it's
Is it cool? Buicks? Aren't people? Don't I think buicks are fine. I don't understand why the Buick,
cool, okay, well, that we're we're ending with a new look at thanks to Mayor City Con and thanks Rebecca nickel for joining us today and we'll see on the road.
Transcript generated on 2019-10-12.