Senator Elizabeth Warren sits down with Tommy to talk about Medicare for All, climate change, Venezuela, Israel, and more. Before that, Jon and Dan talk about Mueller’s end game, Trump’s latest attacks on the media, and the future of the Supreme Court. Also – Pod Save America is going on tour! Get your tickets now: crooked.com/events.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Welcome applies in America. I'm John Barbara Ambient riper later in the popular Tommy's interview with Senator Elizabeth Worn, who stopped by our office on Tuesday to meet LEO and funded, will also talk about
ports that Robert Mahler might be wrapping up his investigation translators,
tax and the media and a frightening report. The Clarence Thomas might retires. The trump can pick a replacement. A move that one democratic presidential candidate might have a solution for
bad news all around and not get some questions. Where was LUCA more, like you know, logos, why more
Bernie Geier, Lucas sat
in our office in she. Didn't you didn't
play out on a wide, sir. I was sort of saint. You know what it's like its Tommy's iolcus roots. She was gonna she's not ready to commit. Yet she wants doesn't see. All the candidates can throw. That is correct. Yes, Lugo wants. Do yeah, look as much more time
he also check out this week's keep it that features and interview with decent marrow check out this week's part c of the word
that features an interview with Tommy and his former boss, former national Security adviser Tom Darlin, that with some very different than the decent marrow interview.
Crooked dot, com, slash events to get tickets to our upcoming shows in Boston and New Hampshire. In April,
Let's start with the Big NEWS the broke on Wednesday.
CNN Nbc in Washington Post are all reporting that newly confirmed attorney general, William BAR in Justice Department officials, are preparing for the end of special Council Robert Mothers Investigation and are expecting to receive a confidential report as early as next week. During his confirmation, hearing bar did not make any commitments that mothers work will be made public
Dan wanna hear what you make these reports. It struck similar watch
as odd, because there is still a lot to lose,
out there there's open investigations into Roger Stone, mothers and illegal fight with some mystery foreign company? There's Jerome Court
he's aborted plea deal, he could be indicted. Still, we don't know, what's going on with George Nator and his cooperation,
Middle EAST influence on the elections. There is the same.
Our meeting with Eric Prince and the Russians Adam Shift just turned over a bunch of transcripts. Four witnesses they interviewed
during the house investigation to see if there was perhaps perjury committed, because many people think there might be
lotta loose ends,
On the other hand,
Mowers office has already started handing off some investigations to other parts of the Justice Department. Some Mahler prosecutors have gone back to their old jobs. People were spotted moving files out of mothers office last week which
really could mean anything dunwoodie. What do you make of all this? I have no idea. I just I've obviously become obsessed with it:
I read everything mercy, Wheeler had to say I read what garret graph from Wired had to saves another very close, Mahler Watcher added eight. We just don't know right,
This is a good sign, a bad sign, a sign for panic, a media reports off it's it's not,
and so I did I address you just don't know what to think, but we probably have to
emotionally and politically start preparing for the end game and in the near future. How does one emotionally prepare for the end?
lower your expectations, John lower your expectations,
what going out the arguments in your head when Mauler has a report that comes out. That is, does not
call specific conclusions, but lays out a pretty compelling case and all the mega hat people don't immediately on Twitter, don't immediately. Just
she's there avatar to William Weld dont, be disappointed bright like the though
much Mcconnell doesn't schedule a Senate trial. What we just have to be prepared that whatever Mahler fines as it relates to Trump
interesting, is very important for the stork or record, but is unlikely in highly unlikely to result in his removal from office from any reason other than the verdict of the voters in the false one. In twenty did we spend too much money on red string with that
well look so we don't know within the report, but you know some people like our feelers fearless.
Editor in chief brain boiler, you know suspect that it's possible the maybe
may be involved in shutting this investigation down early, since these reports came right
you're William Bars confirmation and no brides unsure of this, but he was the least floating that this possibility. Yesterday, I think, actually now he peeped, he probably doesn't think that's the case, but
You know what do you think of that that this idea that we are hearing these reports that there may be the end of the the investigation coming next week, because somehow trumpets involves bar has just been confirmed. You note known Idiot Match lap whose wife is
strategic communications director in the White House, tweeted after bar was confirmed.
Good. Now we have for you a real attorney, general and not mother will be gone soon, which was sort of crazy,
What do you make of all that at first? I would note that, I'm pretty sure the use of the word strategic, Mercedes, slaps titles, ironic, ahead, Phoebe. I look it's very like we have been saying this for a long time that we have been living in a slow motion. Saturday, massacre in reference to win Nixon, fired everyone, the Justice Department, in order to end the investigation into Watergate that has been happening. You know it's, we ve been purging. The top ranks of the FBI, Trump Fire, Jim Commie term, has been tampering with witnesses out in the open reports, are pardons or been floated to people.
Poor man, afore pomade efforts cooperating with Guatemala and communicating with transit areas at the same time like the job is done everything he possibly can to throw roadblocks and status of church. In short, a firing Bob Mahler witches been we that the third, what political, third rail here for him and so
I mean anything is possible, but what he's basically done is removed the people slowly, who
we are supporting the investigation and replace them with loyalists to oppose, investigate, and that includes bar and includes getting rod, rose, Einstein out of the department justice at not say he's out firing hot ride by her, but her right is being replaced in. Therefore, someone else will be in charge of the investigation, and so you don't have to be some crazy, spooky, Moulder conspiracy, theorist too
believe that ultimately trumpets pulling the strings here? Whether he's like actually sent a message to end it right now and bar?
Doing that or he's just forcing everyone's hand through his actions to date, like trumps, fingerprints are all over. That's for sure.
I know that you and me and Tommy refer to him as hot rod. Sometimes I think, that's the first time it's it's actually come out on the pod hot rod, resin sites,
If your name is right up like you to ask all right like that, like that, I don't think anyone in history whose God by ROD, has not been referred to his heart right, either literally figurative. We are radically so I don't need any. Was we shall so yet you you're right that Trump has been openly attempting to obstruct this investigation from the start. He tells us that
he famously told Lester hold. He did you know. Marcy Wheeler said yesterday that she does think that this is mauler making the decision to end this investigation on his own timeline, and she thinks part of the reason it is mauler decision is because he, you know these reports are coming out. Yes, bar has been confirmed, but he hasn't started yet, which means that Rosen sign
still is in charge of the investigation and rose. Einstein has been allowing the investigation to continue uninterrupted for some time now, and also because there's many reports that bar
no smaller as family friends with smaller and wood and would not try to do this to him. Now. That's that's Marcy view of this, but look, I do think that's. It does seem to make sense right that you know if, if
or was it will be hard for bar to shut down the investigation already, because bar has an even gone through his ethics briefing. He has really taken the job, yet he's just been confirmed. Rosen Stein, still there and also
mark and thanked himself. Well, I didn't want to end it while Whittaker was the acting attorney general, because he's such a fuckin goober
and not really legitimate. So now at least I can say
resins time was overseeing the investigation,
but bar was in place newly confirmed by the set it now. I feel good about the legitimacy of how to end this thing. So that's another theory Emmy and very, very compelling yet
so. If the report does come out soon, the next fighters over whether will know what's in it bar said during his confirmation that he wants to be, as quote transparent as possible with Congress and is made clear that the Justice Department generally guards against publicizing, quote derogatory information about
charged individuals. So as that person is Hillary Clinton, yeah thanks thanks coming Pritchett, that no soap
What? If anything, can democrats do about this? Because you could see the situation where and I think in the Washington Post. They said
people in the White House are not expecting any additional criminal indictments to touch anyone in the White House or trumps allies, or anything like that, but they are expecting things in the report to be politically damaging to Donald Trump. Now what the fuck do? They know their a bunch of White House goobers. You don't really know much.
You know that it would be if it does, he might go, be very bad if there is a report that had a lot of damning information about Trump and his clothes associates and yet because they weren't technically indictments, we never know about it. I think I mean there. I mean there is a very real question about the ability to subpoena that report.
Yeah, and you know when I when Marcy was on the pied last Thursday. She explained why she's not worried about the report, but yet this is. This is gonna, be a real question if it if where this is the end of their isn't right, if there's no more indictments at the end of the day, we have Michael Flynn for lying Paul Manafort for tax evasion and lying. We have Roger Stone for lying and we don't have actual crimes which is reminiscent of how the Patrick Fitzgerald
investigation into whether the Bush administration publicize maliciously publicize Lee, classified information to smear Valerie, Plain and Joe Wilson, which simply scholarly be going to jail for lying to the FBI. Early line to investigate him or the actual charge was, but it was a lying obstruction charge.
Charge of actually committed the crime, and that means that is a real possibility is very hard to prove something like a conspiracy here, even though the
like there's the legal facts, and then there is the political facts out the political
everyone in trumps campaign was meeting with Russians to talk about
how to win the election, including sharing pulling information, receiving opposition research and then lying about on multiple occasions, either to the FBI, to Congress or on their legally required national security clearance forms. At the same time, the tromp was doing business with Russia to strike at the other, would be his riches building deal yet to build a town.
In Moscow, with a reported penthouse for fighting urban as a wheat like lying about holiday all now and lying about all of it, the entire time lying about it through the campaign lying about it through the transition lying about it in the early administration- and we know continued,
the transition with MIKE Flynn, calling the Russians talking about sanctions relief after Obama play.
Sanctions on Russia for interfering in our elections, I mean it's like it is.
It is important to realise that you, if there are no more indictments right and
Media goes crazy and- and it will absolutely sir,
into the main
stream media as well. We will get stories after stories. That just say no
Democrats in disarray now had they all been counting on these indictments. What if Trump was right is this,
and he's going to win reelection now, House Emmy. It has got you know my advice if it comes to pass just go, take a walk
off your twitter news for a long time. It is it's gonna be unbearable and one of them
there's gonna be unbearable, is because
what we know not just from news reports, but from federal prosecutors is the Donald Trump and his team were willing to cheat to win the election. In the case of the hush money payments of Michael Cohen, we know that they did she
to win the election and federal prosecutors, not only put my
oh come on in jail for this, but they have implicated Donald Trump, the President states
felony in a campaign felony. So that's one case of cheating too in the election. This other case of trinity to an election is dollar
son by his son in law. His campaign chairman, who is also going to jail meeting with Russians, saying please give us dirt on.
Hillary Clinton, so we can win the election. We know, that's all true. We
no, that he was lying about business deals. We know that Vladimir Putin knew that Donald Trump was lying about his business deals with Russia, which means that the president will allow himself to
compromised by a foreign leader of a government that tried to interfere in our elections. That's not great. We know the to Trump also was dizzy.
The United States and would rather believe Vladimir Putin over his own intelligence agencies, and we know that, because he stood up in front of the world in Helsinki and said that, like
There is plenty of wrong doing era with Russia that should tell us. Donald Trump is unfit for them
job, it's sort of all. We need, but even be on that if we lived in a world with a normal republican Party, that was an essentially a political protection racket for Donald Trump. You could impeach Trump right now on molt for multiple reasons. Without ever mentioning the word Russia yeah, you get, do it I'd his business dealings? You could do it on the obligations we have. You can do it
simply on corruption alone, from the fact that foreign governments are spending absurd and programmers incorporation me absurd amounts of money in his sloppy hotel in order to influence the president and wine, as part of which is a violation of the constitution. My do you could do it on the Stormy Daniels case. You do on multiple
things, anyone need measure Russia, but that's also a moot point, because Trump is not being impeached right right. This is not an argument that is going to be made to a jury of senators night and artemus me to a jury of trumps peers. It isn't arguments we made to the voters in from now until November of twenty twenty and that we have yet to make that argument, regardless of what Bob Mauler Reports- and we have said this before but- and this is important I think about russia- is that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence ragists. We we know for a fact, as you pointed out, that true that run
helps trump when this election we know that trumps, stairs trumps, family and campaigns have sought in benefited. From that help we just can't prove. Maybe we can't prove they all actively worked together, be proved beyond reasonable doubt of that fact, but we know what happened and it is what it
Is I don't like everyone's gonna freak out put your phone in a drawer, put something good on television and go for a walk, walk you dog? If you have the play with your children, don't freak out when the New York Times Blair's across his front page mother
Tromp innocent of all charges will do as part of some sort of guilt
Education exercise over local
Manhattan twitters girls, so I'm ok
by the way, there's another alternative here. There's actually many alternatives, but one is you are listening to this made.
Thursday afternoon when it comes out tomorrow is Friday. There could be more indictments on Friday. This could sound very quaint from it.
The other thing we know that's coming out tomorrow, Friday is smaller,
be submitting a sentencing them over Pollyanna Fort, which is likely to have quite a bit of detail about how he conspired with a suspected russian intelligence asset Constantine Polemic, something he is already pledged guilt,
to an we're going to find out more details about just what that was what that conspiracy looked like what it was when he shared the polling information, all kinds of information about that
we're about to find that on Friday, and then you know there could,
other indictments or the report. By the way we their sorted. This assumption that maybe the report's going to be fine just because
as you know, William BAR the Justice Department know about it, but like the report could also say that the president obstructed justice. The report
good name him as an unindicted, coke and spirit
we have no idea. We have no idea what might happen next week and it may not.
Happen next week, you know of it could be in the weeks to come.
There is a lot we don't know and we should all hold off on making judgments until Bob Mauler speaks or his reports
I mean my advice to everyone, as you can tell from the tone of our conversation. Date is prepared for the worst hope for the best, so that is what I'm doing
oh and Michael Cohen is testifying Wednesday February Twenty seventh we're on the day that are
Rio Summit great job Adam well
Brian Boiler brothers. Out to me later,
now, when we were sort of connecting all of our red string on this together, you know Schiff tweeted last week or the week before, we are postponing Michael Cohen's testimony until February Twenty seventh because of the investigation because of the rush investigation we have been because they have asked us to. Basically,
So that's pretty interesting that why why would Michael Cohen not be allowed to testify until February Twenty seventh what's happening between now and then, who knows? Who knows from worth one more thing to think over? Ok, let's talk about two new stories from yesterday. The first is
the New York Times and here's the lead, even by his standards. President trumps biting attacks on the press. This week stand up. He is praised. Libel lawsuit against the Washington Post, called for quote retribution against NBC
satirizes him on Saturday LIVE and on Wednesday, issued his sharpest words. Yet against the New York Times. Calling the newspaper quote a true enemy of the people. That's first story.
Now. Second story from yesterday is about how, according to the FBI, a coastguard officer who was arrested with fifteen guns in a thousand rounds of ammunition was actually a white nationalist who is plotting to murder, Democrats and media personalities on a quote scale. Rarely seen in this country, the government has labelled him a domestic terrorist.
There is absolutely no evidence. The trumps hateful rhetoric about Democrats in the media led directly to this person's actions. But, as Tommy noted on Twitter yesterday, there was a hundred percent chance. The trump was briefed on this domestic terrorist before he tweeted at the New York Times is the enemy, the people, so that seems beyond fucked up no, yes, John, it does seem beyond factor, but not surprising. I mean-
you know, I have to say, like after the Saturday night LIVE tweets when everyone was sort of freaking out- and I know, Alec Baldwin is freaking out there like trump targeting us another kind of stuff.
As part of me, that is, like you know,
this a little overdone the president's complaining about a sketch. You know that he doesn't like, and that's just typical tromp Pisa whiny baby about shit,
and maybe we shouldn't get you know, and then something like this happens in a reminds you of how dangerous this is
and you know we're only a couple months out from in October, when some Magda asshole sent pipe bombs to Brok, Obama and Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton and hope
of our leaders, democratic leaders and journalists and journalists. It CNN. So you know this stuff is, is is very very scary, and all Donald Trump would have to do is not say crazy. Shit like this, he can complain about the media all he wants. He can complain about his coverage. All he wants words matter when you're the President of the United States and you tweet, shit like
the press is the enemy the people. People are going to listen to you and people were unstable or unwell, or white Nationalist trot
around the internet. They're going to eventually take cues from you, they're gonna think it's ok, because the president says what they think that that's that's exactly right there for all
policy atrocities in the national. Just international embarrassment is to have this fucking clauses our president,
they're like there is a moral dimension to this, which is
if a lot of us six recently country knows that Trump is a joke. There are people who dated the president. The president is sitting in the oval office, like all the normal presidents who came before him and his words matter, and he sets a tone on issues for
some portion of the population, and there is dangerous. I've had the same reaction. You you ve had a lot of time span,
has, even though only a small percentage of the country is on Twitter every week
was on Twitter whenever Trump attacks the press, it dominates our thing. I
things with a few strategic things he dies, which is he knows how to distract
there's no better way to strike the press, then to talk about the press right and it's amazing like can
can the press of the same reaction when Trump targets, immigrants or african Americans, or you know, people other people, colourings Hunter women right like why? Why is the greatest outrage set for it
de threats about ending the White House, briefing or libel laws, or things like that. But we have reached a point where what the present doing is deeply irresponsible and dangerous, and it is. We are incredibly fortunate that no one got hurt back last fall and something very dangerous can happen, and this is what happened to you: have a malicious narcissistic ray
lunatic in the White House and is made it's it's a huge from. It is also interesting that what there there is
in which were trumps. Words now have more power with people like this individual who was arrested on the part of the person who sent the pipelines but less.
Florence on the discussion like no one day
the institutionally. We don't take trumps seriously when he threatens legal action against S, an owl
or an be say or
you know, says: he's gonna: do you know, stop doing the express thing or do Prescott Lake?
we hear is like the he's, like the boy who cried authoritarian on those issues, right, let you doesn't. People are taken seriously any more than that
That's that says. Oh, I kind of war
What is more dangerous than he constantly tracer bridge
hey he's gonna bring Supreme Oppressor, Noah. Take them seriously infringes the freedom of press bide is but beyond that aspect of it that the danger of his words was very evident. Yesterday. Yeah and look he's got a whole, but it's not just him. He's got a whole course of conservative media
and you know some of the crazier parts of the conservative me like the Alex Joneses of the world- and people like that who were who been carrying the stuff insane
for years, and now they have someone who is the most powerful person on the planet parroting that stuff
very, very scarce buzzer, America's brow.
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one last story to scare the
out of all of you. First, the Good NEWS: our roof Baker Ginsburg returned to work at the Supreme Court this week very happy to see again
back. We love roof Bitter Ginsburg, everyone sender, vitamins, so she's back she's back at work,
Now the bad news, Jeffrey Tubing, wrote a piece in the new Yorker this week, but the possibility that Clarence Thomas might resigned from the court's leaving Donald Trump. The opening to appoint a younger conservative justice to replace him to been rights will Thomas retire over the years. He has made little secret of the fact that he doesn't enjoy the job very much with a conservative future of the court secure. Why? Wouldn't he call it a day after twenty eight years now, tubing goes on to say that Thomas's friends, don't think he'll do that. But, of course we don't know Dan how possible as this and how absolutely Fox would we be, as you know, I'm someone who tends to reside in the darker side of things periodically and I
often do it. It is like Alzheimer them all, for lack of a bushel management relate to imagine the worst case scenario and then be pleasantly surprised when doesn't occur, and nothing knocked me for a loop. Then, when a worst case scenario emerges that I have not a majority in it had never even fucking occurred to me that Thomas could resign between now and a Democrat, hopefully defeating tromp next year,
it's our doubts, like obviously that's gonna fucking happen. Of course it is like why? Wouldn't it if it is perfectly in line with how the Republicans think about the Supreme Court and using power in everything
and thomas- is a conservative activists, not a judicial activists in actual conservative activists. His wife runs a very conspiracy laden fringe right. Wing groups is meeting with Trump just recently, and the heads of course, like eight for someone who cares about conservative politics right, not considerably got a reserve of politics. Why wouldn't you resign while Trump Emission Connachar JAMA through you have no idea? What can have what the Senate or the White House in twenty two is? A trump is probably a slight favorite to be present because incumbents tend towards our people and just because of the map. Republicans are slight favoured to keep the Senate, but it is little not much better. The coin flap, and so why? Wouldn't you
do this, if the bavarian line without Thomas Mcconnell add the rest of the conservative world thinks about tat the rolls record yeah. I feel like a moron for not thinking about this because me, the naive optimist was thinking
If Ginsburg can hang on to have a democratic president than we have
democratic president who could potentially replace Ginsburg if she retires
then the next person in line to retire would be Clarence Thomas and
if somehow, a democratic president could replace Clarence Thomas suddenly, now we have a five four living
Georgie on the court again, and things are good, and so I was thinking like that's a scenario that could come to pass. Let's go
For that you know if we get it's another bonus of
being a democratic president and in twenty twenty. But then, of course, you know, the alternative is Clarence. Thomas also understand that the scenario and thinks fuck it on latin Trump or point my group
So how would Mitch Mcconnell handle this? Given the Garlon precedent which, as you know, you don't appoint a Supreme Court justice during a presidential election at so funny? Why dismiss we're gonna do anything because he can't, if
Clarence Thomas decided to retire six days before the election Mitch Mcconnell with GM that through before a democratic over of course. What do you think you? He honestly believes in the norm of allowing the american people to decide who there's a brief word just to be thought now, MRS Mckenna has the political power equivalent a fuck, you money, he would just do it and he would not give a shit what anyone said about it
so that's gonna be bad, but the Good NEWS is at least one democratic presidential candidate may have a solution here. Earlier this week, South Ben Mare people to judge, said in a town hall
well, I don't think we should be laughing at the idea:
of adding more seats to the Supreme Court. Saying quote: it's no more
partner from norms than what the Republicans did to get the judiciary to the place. It is today
This idea has gotten more Erika, since you know gorse, which took a seat that should have been Merrick garlands now soapy
no, you know nothing in the constitution requires nine justices on the court. The court originally had six seats and then various president's in Congress is added and took away seats throughout the first half of the nineteenth century, including in eighteen, sixty three during the civil war, when linked
the Congress added a seat to protect the union from legal challenges. You know to add a Supreme court see you would need majorities in both houses and then the president to sign the law Dan.
We have talked about this once before on the Monday pod. But what do you think of this idea? I think you- and I talked about it once as well, did when I came in opposed, and then I think you if I remember correctly, made very compelling argument. You switch my position, but I can't remember what you argue
was. I actually have very nervous gangs about this, so let me sort of way out the way I think about it. One people to judge is exactly right in why he's raising this witches Republicans gives zero fox about what is good for democracy. The only arose Guerrero Republicans and if we try to hang on to are two governing norms like they,
Like wife rats in the ocean we're gonna get swamp like we constantly its I'll, have a lotta, not law the rotten norms, but not a lot of Amerika. The re insulate Republicans will
like they will destroy a norm, getting back what they want and they, but we feel like it's our job
to restore the norm, but they ve already
as already burn the bridge behind them, and so we have to expand. We we have to widen the aperture of how we think about political power, as Democrats Republicans think about political power for political power sake, the point of having to have more demo
That's think of political power as something that you get, and then it is your job to immediately spend it without any
turn about achieving more political power in order to pass policy now. Democrats are. That is the right way of thinking in the sense that it is good like if you win election, to get this huge house and Senate Majority and get this once in a lifetime opportunity to pass the affordable care act. Even though it's going to cost, you dearly
pause you do, it probably has. I think that by they think about how do we use our sixty Senate seats to get sixty five sat seats? Are thirty five Seed House Majority get fifty see house majority, and we we do have to find a balance between the way we thought about power. May Republican thought about power, something between naive optimism and Mcconnell. Like nihilism, writers siamese something the metaphor we regret, and so I am I really applied people to judge for thinking about this in a railway is, I think, for too long democrats of essential
not a sport to a gun, fire hatred. Just getting clobbered add we think in it. Like you. Even if you hear Democrats, there's even Bernie Sanders the most aggressively progressive leader and the Democratic Party by many measures when
to keep the Senate filibuster. I now wish me out in time of his lavishly will pass with the possible exception we made. It has one thing about a reconciliation, and when you talk to senators most of them think
All republicans are operating in good faith in it.
Harry Red headed use the nuclear option. We still be living in a world where Tipp, O Neill and run a ragged hung out drink whisky and if we just had more bipartisan lunches together than we would pass infrastructure that is fucking stupid and you gotta wake up and realise that nature of the opponent here, and that is right now. I also the only reason I have concerns about this. Is I don't know how it plays itself out in the long run, but I certainly am not. I very much I don't buy is that it would be smirched the independent reputation Supreme Court. That is absurd. One bright capitals and Supreme Court he's a partisan hack would use of very serious things too. I was in Florida where need when a conservative five for majority decides to hand the election and fuck over the planet for George W Bush in two thousand so saga,
out some sort of destroying this independent unvarnished american institutions. Supreme Court is partisan as the other branches of government yeah. I just don't know like how's it going to work. We can add wine and then they're going to add one organ. Add wine and then he venture is gonna, be like sprinkler. Decisions will be like sick.
Three, twenty seven lay right is headstone. How it works. Well knows if that is the the good argument against doing this, is that we add seats than they add seats next time. Baron power and then the Supreme Court, even though it has been growing more partisan and political overtime, especially with the addition of the most recent conservative justices, who you rightly point out, or not just conservative justices. They are conservative activists Thomas's, like that he was even so recent an appointment gorse. It is clearly like that. Cavenaugh is clue like that. We see that in the decision so far may be the only one who's been whose a conservative justice who hasn't shown that he is purely a partisan hack, is John Roberts so far in some instances, but so the idea would be, if we add justices than the Republicans adjusted and suddenly the court is basically just a political tool of whichever party is in control of the White House, and it is not a third independent branch of government.
When we have actually seen this happen in various eastern european countries, places like Hungary, where they just keep adding justices to the court and the court is nothing but a political tool. So it is a concern. On the other hand, you can say.
We just name some of the times in the early nineteenth century, where they change the number of seats between six and nine, there was another time where some one person basically change the make up of the Supreme Court, and that was between February twenty. Sixteen, until April of twenty seventeen, there were only eight justices on the Supreme Court for a full year and two months, and you know who is responsible for that. Not a law passed by Congress and signed by President one person was responsible for that and his name is Mitch. Mcconnell Mitch Mcconnell changed the make up of the court from nine justices to eight justices for a year. So he could wait for republican president and install a conservative activist on this.
In court? That's what Mitch Mcconnell did, and so I think, as Democrats fast to figure out. How do we rectify that extreme violation of a norm? And one way to do it
is this, as in other those there's different plans out there to do this? Someone I saw the Washington post. This has been floating around a plan. Where democrats add two justices to the court to make up for the garland see,
to rebalance the court, and you name those two justices for eighteen year terms, and then after eighteen years, those two justices serve for life, on the federal bench, on a lower federal bunch so than the court goes back to nine and basically
you would add the justices and say we are only doing this, not because we just want to make it but the corridor partisan political tool, but because we are rectifying a serious violation of the cores independence when Mitch Mcconnell decided that he would change the the whole make about the court on his own in order to install
conservative activist? And then you know you basically do it in the name of institutional ism. So that's that's one way to do. That's interesting, thee. The lifetime of what it is
prostitution right yeah they said there is. There is a legal basis to yell professors who came up with this, and I said it's tackling the crew and the constitution at the that. The justices have to serve in the judiciary for life, which is why you could do term limits, but then send them back to the federal judiciary. That's what that's at least, that's what some LA professors think
and various legal scholars as well. I want, if you can, you retroactively, do it that I don't know
I don't know, that's an interesting idea, because it is actually
There should be term limits for federal judges.
Yeah, I mean have you tat. We can't live in a world where the where you,
for we have a half century, a fucking conservative rule, because eighty thousand people in three states decided to Tipp Electoral College against the popular vote like that
fucking crazy way to run a country, well, that I am like India, it really like iron's reading. There is some one of the many articles I read about the just. You talked about how basically the argument for court packing is. This is stupid. That's
imports Supreme Court observation like lottery tickets, for president's right. You either happen when you d, they there happen when you're
in it or not, and if they happen to happen when your present you get to shape the ideological direction that country for a half centuries a crazy way to run a government. So I looked at me yet there are plenty of reasons to worry about this kind of proposal, but here the facts: if Donald Trump does replace Clarence Thomas with a justice who is a similar age to kneel Gorse Ich and Bread Cavanaugh, who were a gourd, which I think is fifty one Cavanaugh, is he like forty, nine fifty a he's around the same age,
and then drawn Roberts is sixty five and I think God Alito is like sixty eight. That is the five for majority on the court. Five conservative justices all in their fifties and Sixtys. That is a couple of decades of us of a very conservative, very right wing court, overturning all kinds of legislation from even the most democratic Congress and democratic,
and if Europe Liberal in this country, even if you're an independent, even if your moderate you have to look at that and think, is
what I want for the next couple decades, knowing how right wing those justices are, and if it's not what I want for the next couple decades when we are facing climate change, when we are facing massive inequality when we are facing people
with high health care costs we can't get by. If that's not what you want, what are we going to do about it.
And there are there remedies that are entirely legal here. Bitter in the constitution, you can add. Justice
you can pass the law. It is not unconstitutional, and so I think it is I'm glad that mere PETE brought that up
and looking into go back to your point about the filibuster like. Have you been surprise how the different candidates have split on all these questions of court reform
rational reform. Basically ways too. You know
still more democracy into our democratic system is, I would call it? Basically, you just have mere PETE,
and Elizabeth Warren, who told Tommy in
in the interview that all options are on the table. With the filibuster she might get rid of the filibuster you have both of em talking about me
potentially getting rid of the filibuster and so far not many of the other candidates. Jeweller brand was sort of
said she think about it. When I interviewed her Biden Biden-
barely loves. It Bernie said he likes it calmly, Harris campaigns that she is not for getting rid of it. At this time.
So I'm wondering why. I guess it's because they're all senators, although good for Elizabeth Warren for breaking out of the pact there, oh Corey Booker, who said he likes to filibuster, one actively, defend it. What's going on with these folks, I don't have a clue. The filibuster is stupid and it is a problem in the short term for Democrats it. It is a gigantic problem in the long term, as long as we can continue to exist in a world where ever Californian Rio may have the same power in new york- and I too have the same power.
And young people have had to be Democrats are moving to places like California in New York. In these other blue states, there in populations are decreasing and other states the power
the progressives have in this country is going through diminished dramatically overtime. If demographic and population trends continue, so we are not going to pass progressive as a unit one shot for presidency you're going to pass on a budget, reconciliation, six, fifty votes, and that is
For one thing: he had one democratic president. Twenty one we're gonna do Medicare fraud there were to be shut,
into another new democratic President get one shot.
Going to pass on part of the green new deal in that
and you limit yourself. If your way of doing this is better reconciliation is a really complicated rules about the kind of things you can do is ask to be budget related. It's it's is harder to do a lot of things that we care
and so we are tying both hands behind our backs
I think we're having senator spent too much time with each other. You know them.
Generous possible view of this? Is that all
amateurs had a meeting, it was with worn, could make it and they decided there.
Land wives were knocking, savory say where the filibuster into we get elected and they're going to get rid of that fucking thing and we are going to pass. Everything
yeah- I guess you only thing I can think of that is dead- is makes sense, other than deeply naive institutional system for a broken institution. Look I have also seen plenty of good liberals, say
The problem with getting or the filibuster is, can you imagine what Donald Trump would have done in which Mcconnell would have done by now? If there were no filibuster, because there is still a filibuster right now and
my response to that, is they tried to rip up the affordable care act through reconciliation may passed an absurd tax cut that was geared towards the wealthy through reconciliation Vive eliminated the filibuster for the Supreme Court, so like I guess they could have done more damage.
But also all the stuff we just said remains true about progressive priorities and I, like I said I really have a concern about democratic candidates going out there and talking to voters about how, when they become president going to pass Medicare for all they're going to pass a green new deal, if they're not willing to think through how they're actually going to get those plans passed, because if a filibuster is in place, if they want to pass the green new Deal and Medicare for all, but they also want to keep the filibuster in place. They're not being honest with the voters that they're just that that it's not going to happen.
And then what's going to happen is we're gonna like democratic president, trumps gonna be gone, Aaron's gonna be cheering, and then you know, President Common Harris or Corey Booker or whoever is
our Joe Biden, rivers in their eyes, going
Oh yeah, I remember in the campaign trail when I type biomedical from the green new deal actually can get that done, because you know we we need sixty votes and we don't have sixty votes. So sorry, one and that's going to make people more cynical for next time and they can make more cynical about government predictable,
that's what's going to happen, so it really does bother me and again I don't. I would, rather you say, I'm not for Medicare for all,
I am, for you know, exe.
The lowering the age where you can participate in Medicare to fifty five, and I actually think I can get some republican senators for that. I think that's probably a stretch also, but at least like it be realistic about both your plans and your plan to get them done. That's right. The other part that bothers me about it is in the Democratic Party right now, all the good things are happening
The grass roots level right it is, you know, new groups like swing laughed or run for something it is the people running for office. Veto from school board to state legislature accept
that is really exciting, like really it's the new members of Congress who got elected, who aren't from the political establishment right, it's the knitted, a new party, this more diverse and gender and, if necessary, and background and ideology that is all right at the top of the party. I'd really worry that we just have our blinders on about what we're facing add. If you don't understand the ways in which the Republicans have been should teach at least stacking the deck against a growing progressive majority. This country, then you're gonna, be unable to succeed as they are gonna. Throw everything at you, the Republicans, while
can't Amy was in going off a cliff decided. They would rather fuck over Brok. Obama, then save the economy. So the these are this. This is this cynical hacking group we are dealing with. We dont approach that we don't rethink, how we approach Republicans and how we think about political power. We are not going to achieve
fracturing thing to do and this isn't just likes. This is an opportunity cost. This is life and death for things that Medicare for all, and it is the fucking planet.
That is melting underneath us and were
worrying about norms and institutions and filibusters at having
color glasses, rustling period, the centre that didn't exist when the film us are put to do such important things like. I don't stop the Voting Rights ACT for awhile, like what it alarms me about was habit. I really want like this is not yet lay. I want everyone putting on the war paint trying to do Mcconnell late, but we have to think seriously in aggressively about how we handle this, and I really think there is
Washington DC bubble. Naivete going on the point you just made, how we shouldn't be Mitch Mcconnell light like Democrats, do not have to frame this as we have to play dirty like they play dirty. This is about minority rule. Republicans are trying to
rule and have power with only a minority of voters electing them. We might have
situation, where a vast majority of the american people elect a President elect a Congress who is promised them to expand healthcare access? Who is promised them to combat climate
Change was promised all these things, in the reason that those that that progressive majority made up of Democrats in
and non voters. Maybe some disaffected Republicans the reason that
majority won't get. Those policies is because republicans have tried to put in all these rules in place
two governed by majority rule in all we are saying, is that the voice,
the majority of people in this country should carry the day is a set of democratic reforms. It is not playing in the mud like Mitch. Mcconnell is playing in the
It is merely saying we want more democracy in our democracy. I think that's the way to fragment and like we want everyone to them,
and we would have been riots vote. We would have been Congress. We wide people's. Worse is natural
by doing there's enough. That leads to more progressive policies, great right at once that, once that, once those obstacles have taken out, it is incumbent on both parties to make an argument for
A vision for the country totally are willing to do that, Republicans, no, they will lose if they will do that, so their rigging the game. Yet, if you believe, if you believe you can
assemble a majority in this country, for your policies go for it and if you get that majority you get to put those policies in place. You won the argument, but if we,
in the argument. We get to put those policies in place. That's a demur-
I see, and I know that we have a republic underrepresented democracy in all these things, but Republicans put far too many rules in place: an abuse, the system in far too many ways and violated
too many norms, so that now we have rule by minority. We do not have ruled by majority in this country, and I think that's what democratic candidates need to start talking about heads Republicans when tales Democrats loose is the way the right
when we returned one Democrat who has certainly figure this out, Tommy will be talking to Senator
Elizabeth Warring parties.
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You get five dollars find ours does go to world central kitchen. We raised tens of thousands of benefit,
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I am honoured to have in studio Massachusetts Resident a United Centre Elizabeth Warrant. Thank you so much for being! Oh thank! You
delighted to be here- you just met pundit LEO, and I did so most important question the day we gotta give people what they want. How is your new golden retriever puppy, barely doing
I'm telling you Bailey is taking to campaigning.
So he now comes to the events in New Hampshire were near by
He runs its own separate photo and I keep.
Everybody is not a competition
I'll. Do wine railway right, and I have to keep saying that be.
More people wanna get their picture taken with Bailey. He is painfully cute, employs check him out and centres in society, but I mean just amazing: ok,
and I just want you know, he's completely in favour of affordable child young universal Childcare, affordable health care he's exists on all he's for all this cannot capital accountable capitalism he's in the house. We have. We had to do the whole thing on Glass Steagall, which was an early on, and I think, maybe he's a little young when I first introduced him to it. I heard that you now yet he really push you towards the no first use nuclear power are actually. This was a big deal for him and I think it came from the other guy said: the dog partner had been talking about it, for
I'm tired and get out there just comes a moment. Wages around
I'm just go ahead and saint we're. Just not gonna. Do this mix this that's right and make a statement of principle
You're alone no first use heap. He really as opposed to nuclear war, so
but I say yeah that'll work together or I would love to dig into that in a minute. I but first question for you. So do
ring about president trumps,
During beautiful city, even speech I he said
we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country. You stood, you clapped. You said your capitalist. Why are you a capitalist,
cause. I see the value of markets and all that
They can produce a lot of good if they have rules, but let us all be clear markets without rules are theft, and I am opposed to theft. There is a real
in that the folks on Wall Street. The big ceos dont want me
This is the kind of ending anyone, but you that's exactly. Maybe that will be there tat to anyone, but are you not because I get
how the system works and how it can work when it works right and how the
the guys who are ripping off and making it not work and
really do want to. I wanna see at work. I want to see us as a country not just can t
you to produce more wealth, but I want to see us continue to produce more wealth. Were that means
for ten. It is not just for those at the top but opportunities for everybody, and I mean not like kind of everybody. I really literally mean everybody who I think it's perfect
how your cause you Cortez and some Sanders? And then President Trump picking up the man,
of socialism. These I'm sure it's a big supporter. It's been discussed a lot regionally, and so I mean I'm just gonna help. People understand the distinction, because you use
port Bernie Sanders, no care for all bill. You citys for the concept of a green new deal. You know, I think people look at you and they look a centre centres and they think they're there's a lot of similarity there on policy views, but he's a democratic socialist, your democratic capitalists and unjust, hoping. Maybe we can help listeners, understand that distinction and how you might differ on policy cell
Bernie I've been friends since long long before I ever gotten politics courses, not saying
patient in banana thankful hung on the political and of its always been the policy, but the best
I can do is is explain my end of it. So let me let me give you two parts to First Party: is we ve got a country right now that works great for those at the top, and it is a country that works great for joint drug companies. Just for peace
who are trying to get prescription fails, works great fur giant oil companies that want to drill everywhere, but not for people who see climate change as its bearing down on us. It works great
For investors in private prisons, but not for the people whose lives are destroyed in whose communities are torn apart when a government works just for those at the top, that's corruption, plain and simple, and we got a call it out, because what happened in this country is,
in fact, on every decision that gets made from China ones that we see out in front like drilling
offshore day on to my new regulatory decisions,
there is almost always somebody in the room representing the rich, the powerful or multiple someone's trying to get the field tilted still a little bit more in favour of their clients and not just once, but twice twenty times, two hundred times two thousand times and the consequences been. We now have a government that really does it's: it's not working for the people, and so what ever issue brings you to the table: weathers around economic issues, a gun, safety, climate change, net neutrality,
if all intersects, through this fundamental piece of corruption, of of a government that list into the folks with money instead of a government that listening to the people who elected us to get there, so I
store with we have to root out the corruption.
And then we're gonna change the rules in this economy and more?
US away from an economy that works again giant corporations who can by political influence we ve gotta, get to an economy where there's more balance in it,
we need it ought to be easy to join. The union ran right. We ought to make
easy to have more work or power, accountable, capitalism says worker schedule.
Forty percent of the seats on the lists. Isabella already put forward forty per
and the seats on corporate boards way
is to get more power back into the hands of workers. That's how we start to re, write this economy and
I just keep working through that in every part of taxes, progressive taxation, I put her arm
an ultra millionaires tax. I out a proposal and is think about this. If we taxed people, families that huh
more than fifty million dollars and assets. We if we charged him two percent a year, and they put that back in the kitty to help build opportunity for everybody else. We could pay for universal childcare which bring down student. One
there. We could make a big down payment on a green new deal. We can make the investments that make this country work, and that's that's for me.
What this is all about you ever there wouldn't be a lot of investing in Numb Nantucket, somehow
all that we need new decks and places depart boats in such so
state along these lines. I mean a lot of this. Twenty twenty democratic cannot support Medicare for all. I think it sort of table stakes really in this race YAP. Some people think you
interesting. You said that there are a lot of past they get to universal coverage, but there are some
critics on the left, he said aloud. Twitter fun place to be. Who vigorously disagree:
They sincerely believe that a public option I won't get us a universal care.
We need to eliminate private insurance rashly fix a broken healthcare system, Bernie Sanders, for example, till the New York Times at the hearings, the only rule for private insurance in the system he envisions would be cosmetic surgery. You wanna get your
Stick something like that. Why do you disagree with those who have more draconian take on how to get to universal health care so
let me start by saying I believe in Medicare, for I'm
response or yeah? I'm signed up for this
but remember even the bill that Bernie has put on the table
has a lot of wearing em over time right it does.
Just happen immediately. Nobody throws a light, switch and says we're there. It's gone.
Its ways of how we get some people, how we get some more people? How
some more people and by the way, how some people never end up and so, for example, veterans, are, are kept in a difference.
Question about how Medicaid gets brought into it's a big and complex system to be able to do this, and so there are folks who thing, for example,
one way you could later this zoos. You could say in a lot how beautiful
say, Medicare nail starts sixty and then
you're from now. It starts at fifty five, and your firm has starts at fifty in a year from now starts at forty five or
we go the other way, and we say
everybody thirty and under is covered by Medicare and
another year, another two years, everybody thirty five and
there is covered by magic. How about-
we let more the population shift medic here immediately by letting employers by directly and drop private insurance and put people in domestic care. How about? If we let people individually
be able to buy and Medicare instead of having private insurance. In fact,
I tell you, I have a bill that
but at last year that Bernie as a co sponsor on that says, if you're gonna have any
private insurance. One of the the
Visions we ought to put into law right now is private insurance has to at least cover what Medicare covers so
That's what I mean by there are a lot of different had,
but we all know- or at least I know where were aiming
and that is the center of this. Where we're trying to head to is that everyone has Medicare coverage,
and that everyone in this country has covered at a price they can afford? And let me just add on that: how think about what it means that Democrats are talking,
about. Ok is the way to get there, that you do it burning
well as George over four years, other people say they stood over six years. Some people say: let's build up from Medicaid. Instead it from an attic hair, others
start with the young people started the older people lots of different ways. That's it
rotation Democrats, her haven't you just rejected this. That's all or nothing while well, but here's mine point while the Republicans are out,
at the same moment, doing everything they can write nail to take away healthcare,
from tens of millions of Americans and
still got the lawsuit pending gown and taxes that that they're, trying to repeal of the affordable, correct the Medicaid other
trying to cut Medicaid and they're doing everything they can through
nature, s and the regulations around that. To undercut it shall I think this is a great moment for what primary sir about is to get the ideas out there a lot of people to talk about. But the point is to build the kind of far
of energy grass roots energy in this country, for medical care, for all
show that Denmark,
that's when twenty twenty we ve got the house we ve got the Senate. We are ready to move forward and get everybody cover. It has been a very substantive primary, so it has let's keep it that way, recognise listening.
Of Europe. You ve been perfect. So President tromp reasoning declared a national emergency on the southern border said he can take a bunch of money from other places to pay for his stupid wall. There is no emergency. This is absurd. I think everyone knows that including Mitch Mcconnell, even though we slip up on it, but it also clear to me. I think that the publicans aren't going to stop
get me. The Congress could block him in this instance that would require republican votes and I think, we're all sick of waiting for them to be courageous. So I guess the question is to you: is shouldn't Democrats and Republicans if you're not going to step up and protect the institution of Congress
enforced the old rules, then these are now the new rules and that we're gonna play by these rules when a Democrat is elected and we fully
intend to use a national emergency to advance democratic priorities, or things are actually emergency like climate change gap, which it
an emergency right, we got a lotta real emergencies, so
I see this unknown. Why ready to give up the way you implied in that question advice
now in the following, since.
There is no emergency at the border said. The facts are just wrong on this. Second,
I think he has legal authority to do this.
And he's not going to be able to do anything right now. I should know sixteen states and soon and we're going to see a lot of line x. Just going to be the beginning of the lawsuit says, give me like fuller,
but for lawyers you spell constitution right, but we're.
Piling on if these losses, ultimately the court
we'll settle out? What is the legal authority here of
if the President of the United States show the threat here is not imminent. We can continue to have this this,
constitutional debate around it.
President is wrong on this, but I do think,
It is a moment to talk about what you think. A real emergency is an,
to talk about that emergency in terms of trying to highlight four olives,
is the responsibility of governments, governments, job
Look out there and see. What's coming and climate change is upon us say some really controversial.
I hope, you're, not everybody. Listening, B, b b com out there, this is controversial in Russia.
I believe in science and climate change is real
The Ets man made our up and we have got to act, were running out of time
on this. The urgency of the moment and banging on that drum, I think, is critically em.
Wouldn't right now and- and I want to say it- I
Wanna. Do the emphasis on that in a big public sensing
and because I see our opportunity in twenty
team. You know
through November of twenty twenty as a chance. The pull more people in on the core issues, and I think what I think, the questions about power President prisoner very, very important come on. I believe in this, but we gotta be out there talking of the american people
about the stuff that touches their lives. We really do have to be talking about a government. That's not working for them. Talking about universal childcare. Talking about people are just gettin crushed by student loans. Talk
the importance of raising the minimum wage in the opportunity to join the union. Talking about climate change,
me about guns, safety, talking about the things and
making them real that that affect people, every single,
and saying to them, I look
maybe already a Democrat, then you should be fired up democratic,
maybe you're an independent, but man
you're, worried about climate change or, if you're worried about guns safety or, if you're worried about your state alarmed at or how you're gonna get your kid in some kind of high quality affordable day care
we are the party who is working for you or the
who's trying and that's our chance to wait back some of those trump.
Yours I want is to use this period of time to build the grass roots movement.
So when we went in twenty twenty, we are ready to start
those changes. Look I'm a hundred percent with you, but I do think there's a lot of Democrats out there who look at the past few years and are pissed off they wagon,
Mcconnell, stealing a Supreme court seat.
Look at the way Trump right now is
ignoring the magnets key act requirements. He asked her to report the Congress about whether the Saudis, Woods essentially salaries for murdering a journalist, their pissed off
that he's using a national emergency declaration to take away from Congress its most clearly articulated power in the constitution, which is the power the purse, and so I think, they're wondering are Democrats. When we get power back going to fight
fire with fire, or we can try to return to norms and institutions that seem a bit.
If someone is Craven his Mitch Mcconnell in charge for the republican tight, I think that's what I'm trying to get
so so mainly the best place to look at that one? How? But if we do it in the specific regime around random, when we think of
the rules on voting right? What's gonna happen,
as sixty person majority are really gonna have a fifth of us, or are we going to say fifty one? Now
I'm somebody who believed very,
very strongly in filibuster reform. On the record on this, I fought for it for a long time, because the Republicans,
Politely blocked us right
they weren't letting us put any body in the courts, but it was worse than that, not worse the equally bad, they also were letting us, but anybody in the consumer agency said my agency couldn't get its legal, full legal authority.
I'll, be there about her shut down the Anna Larvae and
The answer to that nothing. It was the right answer, which is to say we're done on the filibuster and
before I strongly supported Harry, blew up very well,
up, and I think Harry was right to blue alive. I strongly supported him when he did that
while the Republicans turn around and they
the fellow buster and blew up even more so they said even on a Supreme Court nominee and we and even done anything right. So first
steal, a Supreme Court sea than they turn around and changed the rules on fella buster on a Supreme court, see
and so, when it swains,
around us, what are we gonna do a mine?
answer on. That is all
Options are on the table that that's how we gonna do this. If the republic,
We're gonna try to block us, I'm keeping
Is that we're trying to move forward, then you better believe we got it,
Bali options on the table, and I
that's the way we should be describing it right now on everything that the Republicans are doing
that nobody's gonna forget what happened here and all the options are on the table. We're not gonna play, but
them play by one set of rules, and then we play
in a polite. Everybody drinks tee in an keeps a purled pinky up while they do it, I'm just not for that. I've done the morning Joe civility rules. I like that answer very much to turn to some form.
See. That's ran it ok, so there is a humanitarian crisis in Venezuela. People are literally starving to death. Hospitals dont have like gauze or banned days with most basic supply
The Trump administration has recognised the National Assembly President, one quite oh as the president's encouraged. A bunch of other countries follow suit and, frankly,
was a pretty impressive diplomatically way by them. He also
sanctions Venezuela's oil industry, which is a major step which could cut off all their supply of dollars in their ability to have an economy,
do you agree with those two steps, recognising Guido in the sanctions on the oil sector and in if, Sir,
How do we back up step as bold as saying there's a new president and its this guy that we named especially given our history, and let me show you
I want to. I want to broadcast, went out just a little bit start with the fact that Maduro is obviously a dictator he's terrible he stole in this election. It's a nightmare, the nightmare for the people of Venezuela. So that's part. One part, two
This notion of using our diplomatic tools, I'm all for it. I think recognition
I think getting our allies to do it. It's way to bring diplomatic pressure.
Economic sanctions. Now I support economic sanctions, but now we're gonna start.
Turn the dial some here, we have to offer humanitarian help. At the same time,
we can't let people starve, it doesn't matter that murderers willing to let his own people starve. So, for example, let me pick up one it's at least
little easier to deal with a lot of people are fleet that country and that
Is there a loading up around
the borders, the countries around the borders, the social services, are under enormous strain. Refugee camps are springing up, we
should be leading the international community to get help to those people to make sure that they ve got food. They ve got medicine, they ve got care and, frankly
that makes it easier for people who were in Venezuela. They have
people dividing the resources more people saying an option that if they get out of the country at least for a period of time- and that puts more pressure,
on Maduro Depart. You didn't talk about
though- and I just think it's worth mentioning here- trumpet
something else besides during the diplomatic recognition to some am all for the diplomatic part of this
He also Delano Sabre rattling. Yes,
America's history in South America? Frankly,
history all around the globe. Now I think
rattling sabres when
we should not.
Considering a military intervention is real mistake. I think that it causes the president to burn the credible
many of the United States and remind everyone of
times when we have intervened that we're not only bad for our government, they were sure bad for the local evoke. So I think that our focus should be on.
Climatic and on on him
tearing relief and I have to emphasise,
this part. Again, I said it, but I want let it just going passing working with
is why we need allies. This notion now that truck posies up to put
then Kim Jong Angie at hand
get along with Canada who can get on with it
Merkel, everybody life can exactly Argentina, the Europeans that
our allies. In this. These are the times that we should
working with our allies are european. Our allies are canadian allies. Our asian allies
to move in and support together. That increases the press,
or on Maduro it it tab. It helps with you
monetary relief, and it is
under touch any notion that the United States is big footing around south.
Or any other part of the world. This reason we need our allies in these
This is one of those times we need to work together. We'll have a lot more diplomats,
an economic power. If we do that agreed the first bill that the Senate put forward as a bill called S, one which that a whole bunch of stuff was military support, Israel, I think it was
some policy towards George in some additional sanctions and Syria, but then there was a really controversial provision that would
state in municipal governments to punish companies that boycott divest from or play sanctions on Israel, so called media s media.
Why did you oppose s? One? Shall I oppose the boy kind, but I oppose a law that permits punishment of people who want to support
the boycott. This is one where I stand with the ACL you. I just don't think we do that in the United States. Some opposed, I opposed it when it came up earlier, have spoken out against it. I've written letters on this. I don't think that's the place we go. I know that is real faces, real challenges set of the Palestinians. I think the way we can be a good ally to Israel is weak.
Push again toward a two state solution toward a long term solution in this area and look I get it is real lives in a very dangerous part of the world
its liberal democracy, we don't have a lot of allies over there that follow the liberal democratic traditions. But a good ally urges friends to get together and work out a solution and the Palestinians and the Israelis need to be back at the negotiating table.
United States should not be dictating terms. We should not be putting cheats on the table are taking them off, but we should be pushing them to negotiate a two state solution. So totally agree- and you know the prisoner Obama spent a lot of president's spent a lot of time
pushing the Palestinians and the Israelis to
I don't know she Middle EAST peace process. It is a solution, but no one.
Your sticking point in that peace process has been israeli settlement, construction minor, and you know it.
We put a lot of their allotted carrots. Their allotted,
offered Netanyahu. Some that have now been reported in terms of military,
hardware and other incentives have come to the table and indeed to their credit, he's really.
Have some settlement freezes and the Palestinians refused to engage? But you know at this point:
we are at a point where a lot of numbers of the lake who party present that meows are Prime Minister Daniela's party or talking about annexing the West Bank, and it feels like the chance for incentives to bring them to the table for a two state solution or to NC.
Construction are unlikely to work and I'm curious if you would consider a pressure track that included some sort of punitive approach that might force them into negotiations or to stop suddenly construct. So let me say that I think we have to stop to acknowledge what has changed during the Trump administration.
The pressure toward a two state solution obviously has gone away and in fact the whole publicly
Naming Jerusalem as the capital and moving our embassy took one of the
was it should have been decided by the parties, not our decisions, their decision and how they wanted to handle that
made a very clear were standing on one side and these
patients and the problem with that is it
doesn't encourage negotiations, show in fact the Palestinians refused the toxins that happened.
Exactly right. Letter is magical plant, that's very go at pause
The Israelis have lessened Centre Teuton right, that's that's part of what's happening in this show
the way. I see what you are talking, though she said, we have pushed
this far under the Obama administration and now Trop is completely reversed it. I dont therefore draw the conclusion that
happened under the Obama administration was never going to work that that you couldn't keep pushing harder because over time,
realities are bearing down on Israel, demographic realities, births and deaths
what the region looks like, and I think that the
This is a moment not while tromp is in there playing the game that he's playing, but that the opportunity soon to get Israel back to that
able and get the Palestinians back to the table. If we, the United States, can be an honest broker and can occur
again, other nations other allies to help support. Then I'm I'm I actually.
Just a little more going on optimism. Let's call it a glimmer. Can we start? Can we start with glimmer on procope programme? But when I look at Israel, look it baby
Yahoo, putting up campaign signs at
finding photos of him and President Trump this weekend here
Eastern, a tv, add attacking his opponent any and accusing it of collusion
with Obama behind back back and had this grainy darkened image of Obama
I try. Does it worry you that such a close ally has fully aligned with one political platter, republican per yes? No, this is the part
that's what I was talking about: the need for twenty administrations. Guess I and I honestly I don't
good for Israelite, I'm ethics is terrible for Israel and that that's
erections going courts. Also, remember you know he. He is
investigation and others in his administration in his family. Resolving that you're not write me. Oh I'm sorry, which one where we talking about yeah sent supplies in both places. Doesn't it, but I think that is part of the point trumpets not forever, and neither is it a good point. So she is a little bit
I know your brother's all serve in the military, dumb and one flew combat missions in Vietnam. Did their service shape? How you view, let's say the use of force or the use of military as president- and I guess, is there a post world were to conflict that you look. You think that was a right, justified use of military action is an interesting question. Let me tell you how it shaped. I think it
you don't doubt ITALY did that I grew up cuz. I'm my brother's a lot older than I am. I grew up in the shadow of a family, constantly worried that one of my brothers wouldn't come home. That Donna Reed flew in in Vietnam was obviously the main one
Two hundred eighty combat missions, that's well what an idiot countrymen hundred eighty eight, that's incredible! Yes, it is
To this day I feel my heart flutter
I say that light? I live.
Watching my mother always of checking the mail in other, it was always there, but I think of that in terms of the fairy personal reminder both of the incredible bravery and sacrifice
of those who say I'll put it on the line by my brother, John whizzed was stationed in Morocco
much safer. It was at a different time, but still he was here
far far away couldn't come home for a year. There was some shooting there with it and they have agreed that's what they agree to do David. My youngest brother, trying to combat Matic not turned out. He never had me set to combat. So the first part of it, for me, is the the reminder that it is an extraordinary decision to sign up for military.
Service and that that means there is a moral obligation incumbent on foot
those who would send our military into harm's way to make sure that it is done for well thought out. Reason rose when truly our security and safety are on the line, not not just for politics, not just that. It's that it's gotta be real and its
hard to find a place where that's been the case right I mean, I think, that from a drive anything we all know now that Iraq was sold to the United States under false pretences. Yet, but you know, if someone I loved had served in Vietnam in it. Would piss me off that the Gulf of Talkin resolution and sixty four was forced through Congress
under false pretences and when Johnson in the administration figured out that there were those false pretences,
was never reads the american people and they continue to use at authorization so curious. If what its, when men Amira said right, he knew that we lost, but he didn't pull out and thousands and thousands of people continue to die.
Young Americans. Eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old, had been set over and he'll later claimed as part of his sir. His great confessed.
Three new was lost, and yet he kept sending our our brothers our sisters to die every day without would
me off: I'm in what's a defining moment in our history. Obama serve oppose Vietnam President, but I think for a lot of people
in the military. There are some who feel that Vietnam is an instance of where we should have gone all in earlier in didn't have the backbone to win the war right. Like you hear that from some parties, others, I think you think. How can we possibly trust our government when they tell us why were going into orange trees like it? If that experience, especially how personal it is for you,
maybe makes you distrustful of some of the claims that might be made for why we could go to a war in IRAN or whatever. The next thing might be self.
I think of it, is
Surely we have learned our lesson that we need to ask the question once it s. The question twice
but the evidence over and over and over before before we move in and obviously on, during the George W Bush
ministration the whole weapons of mass destruction was made.
It's just a lie to the american people. I think of this. Just a little bit differ,
only, and that is, if we're going to use military force, that we need to be a lot more thoughtful about what exactly we think military force
can accomplish. It was a big toolbox out there and there's a lotta diplomatic tools in there and there's a lot of economic tools in here.
Why military, ok on the fraud and then the question is what's the back end of this look like
what show the military do x and then what and what do we expect to have happened
Is it the military gonna go this far and in economics
what's gonna move in and it's gonna cost something to happen or allotted diplomatic help, show
For me, I think what frustrates me
and it has in virtually
reduce dashing net,
using military force since
I've been old enough to follow it,
is there's always a lot about the rodya. Yes,
and nothing about the middle and the back end and the thats.
We end up in the endless war of Afghanistan,
That's how we end up. Yes, that's exactly right and that can't be right. That cannot be our approach going forward. We are
we're running out of time, but you and congressmen Arrowsmith recently introduced legislation that says quote it is the policy of the United States do not use nuclear weapons first, just close quotes a very brief, but very important pieces.
Station, and I think, a conversation that again, unfortunately, isn't just academic,
knows we use nuclear weapons. World were too, but that didn't swear us off using them,
bitumen debated using nuclear weapons are Korea
Eisenhower was telling Johnson to use them in Vietnam. Westmoreland was talking about it with a working group. We are planning
and a trillion dollars on nuclear weapons to upgrade our arsenal. Why did you think it was important to put this policy fourg Z also noticed he put it in
foreign policy strategy, and it was it jumped out of me, that's right. In fact, I don't hide this year. This is right out front and I'll take
If we're having a conversation in the. U S, centre right now
I sit on sending armed services about usable nuclear weapons. Spectacles
Egypt nukes little. They exceed every word you because of the whole matter, euphemisms and its oh well,
want nuclear weapons, so we can totally blow up a city, but not
free around it and
would mean usable
by definition, means more likely
to use and that that's been the push from.
The Trump Administration and the Republicans jumping up and down for this. I think
that we need to have a conversation about nuclear weapons and I think we need to make clear there is a real risk to that kind of conversation.
And that kind of move in our nuclear arsenal. If we
are out there saying. Yes, we could be first use country the odds
That's something goes wrong in the next big crisis.
And someone Miss calculates, a signal that we ve sent more missile
rules that are conventional weapons, that we have sent that we have
crease the odds of a nuclear holocaust global, and I wish you fire question: Francesco Mass
she's. It's our home state. We produced a lotta winners. We have patriots, regrets Austria, the Celtics, even the bridge
and everyone in the room now hates me. We have
ass luck with presidential candidates to caucus carry Romney
had Kennedy Kind and eighty. Why can I just stop you either?
I can't I know I know we go back a little further. We had one serious bad us, but why are you the Massachusetts and a guess based database state, whatever we who can put it over the top? For me decision about politics? It is never wise.
This is my life's work and it grows out a who I am. I am the daughter of a janitor who got a chance to be a public school teacher to be a college.
So to be a United States Centre and now to be a candidate for president of the United States, because America invested in a college education for a kid like
because America set the minimum wage in a place where my family could survive and didn't lose its home and get tossed out on the street. I believe in America that recognises the value of every kid. That's our best. That's that's our best statement of who we
you so much for coming. I won't tell the other guys that you look at the best. We can clearly here Pandit marking, as the interview Koreans to a close, yes, well, Bailey loves it he's he's he's done. Thank you get is a good he's, very good,
right said, had worn? Thank you so much for coming they. I won't tell the other guys that you said look as the best we can clearly here. Pundit marking, as the interview Koreans to a close, yes will Bailey loves it. He's he's he's done. Thank you.
Is it good at his face to Elizabeth Foreign for joining us and we'll see you will see a next week
Albion studio next week. We get us special episode. We have we
Great set of interviews next week can be really fun.
I'll see you down your next. We get back.
Transcript generated on 2020-03-30.