The impeachment inquiry moves to a new phase, Republican Congressman Devin Nunes may be implicated in the scandal he’s supposed to be investigating, and Michael Bloomberg officially enters the Democratic primary. Then Democratic digital strategist Tara McGowan talks to Dan about why Democrats need to focus more on digital advertising.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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I welcome the POD save America, I'm John Babbler, I'm dyin Pfeiffer, later on the poor
dance interview with democratic that digital strategists CO, founder of acronym terror. Mc Gowan, before that, we'll talk about the escalating impeachment probe and Michael Bloomberg. Entry into the presidential Ray
few other part you want to check out this week from us. The second episode of Tommy Special POD, save America on the ground in Iowa Series drops tomorrow on Tuesday, Tommy takes us inside a carcass.
I no know exactly how it works too. Great episode pursued is also
funny episode of Lover leave it from over the weekend. You should check out on Wednesday, you'll hear them
giving mailbag episode that Tommy love it and I have already recorded, as well as in
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MR check out last Thursday's epic episode of hysteria featuring glorious Steinem, who was here at crooked media headquarters. High
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John had even put book from out the outline, he did it for me fucking. I wrote you know if that happens, I just did it off the cuff. I just did it Africa for just came to meet with you you,
you just made it into the Pfeiffer family, Thanksgiving dinner. What a bank or force fans
I read in the impeachment hearings are over for now, but,
new evidence and new co conspirators just keep coming out of the woodwork potential,
including be top Republican
the committee, that's been run
The impeachment inquiry? That's right, Devon Newness, my
been part of the same election rigging scheme that he supposed to be investigating as part of the entire committee over the last
two years report say that Nunez has,
conspiring with corrupt ukrainian officials to take down Joe Biden he met with,
in Vienna in twenty eighteen and his staffers, scrapped a twenty nineteen trip when they found it
they have to notify Adam Shift and instead met. Vs sky
and how do we know all the stand? Huddle weird, these reports coming from
more than the internet, Dan governed from love partners. The indeed
Soviet born mobster, who so the Trump pulled him aside at the White House Hanukkah Party and gave him a James Bond Sale Mission to get
on Biden in Ukraine,
Now his lawyer is telling reporters. This is,
what he wants to testify?
M M and by the way he isn't just wanted.
Defy. He has records about all this.
So what was it was your reaction to this story about definitions, involvement and in how big a deal you think this is, I mean even by the standards of Devon. Nunez is incredible: corrupt stupidity, this
pretty my blind. Is he sat there for days?
pretending as if this was all some sort of hoax and he was in on the crime to begin with. Fleur in on the crime. We can talk about
would you believe this or not, but it is certain-
very credible give in how the innocent staff have handled have been
Since the day tramples elected, remember
we're getting over the White House or to people off about the Russia Investigation hiding in bushes, with
was discovered his
rapper who cash Patel
who came up in the Future Hill hearings. As someone who was involved in you,
in policy and the ways in which they probably shouldn't have been so? Is it
barely credible, I guess, give in what we ve seen from
it s an staff, thus far yeah and look at you know. It explains a few things one why definiteness looked so bad of shape earlier in the week when Eric swore, while ass free, previously reported daily, be story about how poorness helped arrange calls in Europe for newness to be read into the record, so explain
that you know, and then definiteness of courses asked about this by Maria Bergamo, another big trump supporter, posing as a journalist over the weekend and deal with me.
This doesn't deny it he doesn't tonight. He basically just says he is planned,
the Sioux CNN and the daily beast, which is how he read
now, when someone talks about him or reports, things that live harnesses lawyer set
but he said he could discuss it because it involves criminal activity which seem
to be a little bit of a tell if you will
in his in his mind. The criminal activity is on behalf of the new,
organizations who again reported what this guy's lawyer is saying now coming the question in a you raised is: should should we trust live
and you know what you think. He look at
we have to take with the grain of salt by it is
credible. It fits with a pattern and helps explain Nunez
is very specific reaction when Erics wall while brought this up it does
honestly speak to the immense stupidity of Nunez
If this were true that he
would sit on the committee. This whole time ages leave himself open to that. She could have easily
accused himself bushes.
We want everyone. The republican Party would have wished and see
kind of sort of layered by Jim Jordan. To begin with,
likewise, I think we should vote.
Assume. This is one hundred percent true, but I think it s. These fits
patterns of behaviour. Yeah look. The other thing we know is ABC News report on Sunday that the House Intelligence Committee is already in possession of videos photos and audio recordings handed over by partners that include Giuliani and Trump. We, of course done over seven newness is, is part of that as well, but it certainly seems at this stage that the whole partners
There is much more of a Michael Cohen, stuff, tat style thing with something else, because, as we know, you know, Michael Cohen said he was gonna flip on track
sounds like well, who knows, if he's telling the truth and out he's a liar and then, of course, Michael Comin out all the receipts. You know it does seem like if Parnassus Turn
over evidence anyway. It wouldn't, I wouldn't really make sense for him to lie about the stuff and the here's. The other thing you need to know like, of course front from Devon Newness perspective right, like the source of all of these conspiracy,
Series is the same right, and so, like John Solomon, you know pretend reporter that used to write for the hill and a bunch right, rightwing conspiracy theories right, like how long have they been pushing this bullshit narrative that somehow Joe Biden did something corrupt in Ukraine.
And so it would totally makes sense for not only Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani, but the other crazy right wing trumpet Assholes in Congress like liked avenues to completely by into this.
Endeavoured to distinguish himself like yeah. Well, twenty eighteen Joe Biden
going to run for president I'm going to get to the bottom of this conspiracy theory that I've heard from John Solomon that you know he had some corrupt activity in Ukraine, so I might as well send some of my fucking staffers over there and go meet with the fired, corrupt prosecutor myself and hopes that I can get some dirt in the odds that Devin Nunez
guess. Selfie, with a fired prosecutor under
a welcome to Vienna sign with the hashtag Biden. Time is like at least fifty percent,
The only thing we know is you know, Adam Smith, who is the House chair, democratic, democratically arm Services Committee was in it
over the weekend- and he said Devon- Miss will likely face and ethics investigation over this news. That would be Devon. His second ethics investigation in just a couple years, the first while he was ultimately cleared of
leaking classified information during the Mahler hearing. So that's great. We should also mention that documents release laid on Friday.
By the State Department show that Secretary of State might palm PEO got on the phone with,
De Giuliani, at least twice in March, to talk about the smear campaign against
were Ambassador Marie Ivanovitch in palm pale Ass, ready to send over a packet of his nutty conspiracy theories, which Rudy did in an envelope that with but the trump markings on
then how significant pompiers role here? Well, it's not surprising. I mean, of course, of course, my compatriots, who is the ultimate polluter?
All hack tromp ask yes, sir. Of course he would be involved. Thirty
way he would like he would have too much firmer to not be involved in the criminal conspiracy. There
so what's it like? Yes, it like
it says so much. That is not a surprise. Right, like those priorities, involve not surprised, no surprise that he has lied about it,
number one. He went on this,
she's right after the reports about the whistle blower came out and he basically pretended to have no knowledge of any sort of conversation with the Ukrainians. Only to then find out days later that he was on. The call
I made it just the applicants, are, speaks or lower expectations, but it's like, if you just sort of do the roll call of criminality here,
Involved in this criminal conspiracy in some way shape or form, either the crime itself for the cover up. You have the attorney general, the President, the vice president, the Secretary of State,
director of national intelligence and what else you for staff
and the White House and the presents personal journey all have somehow been involved in this and now
possibly also the top ranking Republican House Intelligence Committee. It is
the heavy, easier question users who wasn't involves in Washington year when,
Trump mega donor turned Ambassador Gordon Salmon testified TAT quote: everyone was in the loop, he wasn't getting.
We're not gonna get we're. Making this shut up. Gordon Simon testified that all of these people might have seen us
though, who knows what he knows, but certainly palm PEO
were in the loop, and you know, and Fiona Hell basically the next
sort of backs up silent and she's like why Henry lies at the time. But yes, there were some of us who are doing foreign policy, national security or thought
we were doing that, but then there was
another group of people who involve who include apparently
most people in the upper echelons of government who were doing.
Domestic political error and, as she said, for Donald Trump and and seems like my compared with part of that meanwhile,
all we got Rudy Giuliani has been out there and television saying that he has
as some kind of insurance policy. In his words that will stop Trump from throwing him under the bed.
On Saturday he sought to clarify this on Twitter. Here's is tweet
all caps truth, or so you know some goods coming
The statement I've made several times of having an insurance policy if thrown under the bus, is sarcastic and relates to the full,
I was in my save about the Biden, families for DEC,
monetizing of his office if I disappear,
It will appear immediately along with my rig.
Oh chart what the fuck is he talking about this?
rooted Rudy Giuliani, a mirror,
his mare, ran for president. This is what he has been reduced to. If I disappear, magical files will be released
but there are the files that trump in bar want to come out worthy to be certain that so he now I'm just gonna end up in a black site on barge
If a Poland knows bit like poor people demanding the Rico charge like it makes,
It's so stupid
and sad and his Blake
a museum, and I don't know it's at sends out. The right word. It is may serve infuriating that this person has certainly a large amount of influence at american politics.
Our huge Mamma and not apparently based on the testimony of every Trump Administration official who has gone before Congress really Giuliani was directing our fucking Ukraine policy
here. He is not making making less sense than even Donald Trump and a tweet. I mean this man is
Did you not wait? Did you read Olivia? Does he story this morning about what it's like? I didn't have a majority in itself. It is so funny. It appears
way. He addition to but Dialing PETE Report
and leaving crimes on voice males he. He also he's very
big into using the you know like that,
the reactions on the Iphone like the like in up like the thumbs up, it ass, a nation point, and he will
often like go back like thirty seven tax, unlike some of his own statements,
he he sometimes will send to reporters just things aren't for them at all, and he sent one rapporteur a picture of him on a boat smoking, a cigar or something like that hit.
Quoted somewhat, as Rapporteur is the best
they get Rudy as like, eight or nine. When he's quota little loosened up, but not yet unhinged. Oh my god. That's the sweet, but
just like a couple of drinks. In I mean we should note the the import of this is that reduce honey,
Is currently under federal investigation and there could be a situation where he is indicted or charged with something, and then the question is what will he say about Donald Trump? You now don T think Rudy goes down for Trump. I dont know. Why do you say why do you think.
Tromp in their publicans haven't throwed Rudy under the bus. I think the other the early for the insurance now
I think I mean. Obviously the insurance policies hung about, is fucking nonsense, but I do think that the reason the Trump hasn't I mean
Tromp is doing something very unusual. Witches he's not thrown Rudy under the bus, but he's also not talking about him any more or defending him.
And in that middle ground. That would that tells me, as Trump knows, full. Well, that Rudy knows everything and and could be very damaging to him and doesn't want to piss him off, but also doesn't want to have a ton of association with him anymore, because he is under federal investigation and could very well
be in big trouble. That's my thought what you think. I think that is certainly part of it,
tromp has been crossed.
My most of his wife and his majesty a prison so he'd like he's more thoughtful about how not to go to jail, then he is on almost
the other issue,
But I also think this is a little bit of the trap of the perfect call. The fence, which is
because Trump can never admit doing
Anything wrong, even
we wrong he's forestus, Stick by Rudy in Mulvaney right, you
people who could easily through under the boss and by us in the most tip in any other normal
the normal seem so fuckin quaint, but any normal political situation. There would be a fall person right it would.
We would decide, Republicans would go to shop and they would say the best way.
Text. You is to get rid of really like someone has to take the fall cuz. We need to be able to blame someone other than you. Is there going to be a moody, for
overly enthusiastic in his service, a view and crossing some lines and we're gonna play
mulvaney for allowing,
but the security to be held up in creating this problem, and
Mommy's going to go and we're going to shoot on Rudy and his me persona non grata for a while, but Trump can't allow that to happen. Cuz. He can't admit that anything went wrong.
And so he has put himself in this-
very strange position yet strange? One word for it.
Let's talk about the evolving republican response to impeachment, beginning with the target of the investigation, Donald Trump on Friday
He wanted us all to know just how little he cares about impeachment. By calling his spokespeople Fox and friends and ranting for fifty three minutes strain
no commercials here is a clip.
They have the server right from the DMZ Democratic National commit. Who has the circle the
we I wanted, and they told him get out of here- you don't get it without giving a do, they gave the sermon, do crowds
try go whatever it's called, which is a country which is a company owned by a very wealthy, ukrainian and
still want to see that serve. As you know, the FBI's never gotten that server. That's a big part of this all thing: why did they give it to ukrainian company, where you were they did that? Are you surely David to Ukraine
What the word is, that's what I asked. Actually my phone go with. You know I mean I asked it very point blank because we're looking for corruption. That's that's what the word is. That's what the word is. Fucking nonsense!
nonsense. Every word of that was complete nonsense and you can tell because even Foxen friends was, can you huh
has stumped Steve duty. He has
is made Steve doozy question him
I'm sure that's absurd from Santa Carla Fox in France a thousand times before the election, and I hope he does but the next time.
I'm positive. They produces a fox in France
Not just spend the whole time on a reaction shot as do see
kill me than the other person like,
they're, trying so hard, not to look horrified and like keep a straight face, but
can't, as they know they
facilitating just ab
Weird stupidity media is like it's a truly mind. Boggling
is worth noting that
A server is not a thing. It is twenty nineteen meet the
To my that is the craziest.
Of all was the man thinks we talk about this before, but
is not said nearly enough. It is not printed nearly enough in the stories about this. The man thinks that a physical server is lost somewhere in UK
and he doesn't realise that when the FBI check this out, they were checking fucking cloud compute, the emails or in the cloud there is no physical server. The president may be impeached over ask
forcing extorting the ukrainian government to look into a conspiracy about a server that does not exist. He is the president of the United States.
Also another foreign point crowd strike, not ukrainian company
An american only basins, Adele California,.
Guided, owns it Russian born does nothing to do nothing to do with the Ukrainians at all no server
not in Ukraine, not owned by Ukrainians. Fbi already checked it out, check, check, Jack Jack, Donald Trump still believe this republic and members of Congress still believe this, like Fucking Devon, newness Senator John Kennedy, who started spouting this bullshit on tv. I mean it's fun to mark this, but why is this crap,
straight conspiracy, like really problematic in other than the complete blithering.
It is. The idiocy of the president is a political party as an ear,
I support it over the weekend this
mercy theories of is part of a Russian in
elegance operation to
try to avoid blame for the twenty sixteen election efforts. That's exactly what they're doing and like they just most wake up. Every
day, if you like, I can not Bob leave these people boy but like when they started this,
like a lot of things, it's a bow
creating doubt on the fringes of the internet and hear you
the present states calling into a national television programme, just echoing you have all of the Republicans
in a nationally televised congressional hearing, echoing it, even though-
all of the intelligence agencies of the government of said. President right
by appointees of said party have
that it is not true and they still do what it is.
Committee is mine, is my bogglingly stupid and dangerously so yeah arenas sofa uninteresting line from the New York Times,
said: the russian intelligence officers conveyed the information about this conspiracy to promote
Russians and Ukrainians, who then used a range of intermediaries like oligarchy, business men and their associates to pass the material to American?
medical figures and even some journalists who were likely unaware of its origin. The official said
interesting that the New York Times wrote about this since one of the journalists who did write about this conspiracy theory now works for the New York Times can Vogel at the time he was at politico and wrote the famous politico story about the ukrainian involvement in twenty sixteen election, which has since been debunked but has been read by just about every republican defender of Donald
During this impeachment process, so that that was interesting, John, as you know, can Vogel can do no wrong because can vocal told us that I mean problem,
Your time, for, even in a very oblique way.
Fitting that one of the people who currently works for their news organization gut snowed by a russian intelligence operation. I mean this
what the sad part here and scary part as this is what the Russians, this law, as you said, the Russians with the Russians could only dream about re vat
ukrainian conspiracy theory, all they want they. They don't expect that everyone, United States, will certainly believe this. They wanted just so just enough doubt and make this a partisan, divisive issues so that eventually Democrat
and you know the intelligence community in the media neuronal believe the truth, which is the Russians, were involved in election, but one major political party and an entire conceive. Conservative media infrastructure and the president had states all believe now something different or at the very least. They think that the Ukrainians were involved. In addition to the Russians, you have some Republican saying that why I believe that the Russians were part of this, but you know, maybe the Ukrainians were part of this too. Who knows all a russian intelligence operation? That's what they're all fallen
right. Now I mean there's a term to describe this, which is called useful idiots, which is how you'd high describe people who become part of an intelligence operation without knowing they are part of it.
And that is the entire republican party right there.
Like this is not to delve into like.
Sort of Russia. Conspiracy thinks that this
is a very simple fact that this is there
the relegates our saying something that is no not to be true and their entities
thing the Russians want than we say. That's right! That's exaggerate! So, in addition to just defending Donald Trump, Republicans have also started to launch a counter attack over the last several days on that Foxen friends call trumpet very excited about an FBI. Inspector general report he said, will be historic when its released in early December. The inspector general at the FBI, who is independent, was looking into whether law enforcement officials abuse their power when they asked courts to allow surveillance of Trump campaign. Official Carter page
According to the Washington Post, the report will say that the FBI did not abuse its power, that the surveillance was warranted, but that a low level FBI employee who no longer works there may have altered and email that was part of the surveillance application. Now the post story says.
Even without that altered email, you note, the the surveillance should have been approved anyway, and so didn't it shouldn't have substantively changed. The decision by the courts
but you know how big a deal with the Republicans make this. They will make a huge deal and I suspect that
not all but a decent person. The media will follow along because this just now automatically lends itself
to it? He said he said story.
Bright every, like both sides want a guy like you, gonna do both sides journalism, it's very easy here, because it's like the fund,
Mental fact is everything. The Republicans have been saying is wrong. There
no Quantico coup. There was no attempt to overthrow presidency. There was no criminality involve. There was no conspiracy. There was nothing. There was a
intelligence operation that was signed off awed by federal judges, big
as a there, was
but will cause to do that.
And then there is a low level bureaucrats who altered and email adds those. Today,
We treated as of equal importance, and that is unfortunate and alarming when they shouldn't, because if, if the reports about the report, our true, the report will actually blow a hole through multiple
Conspiracy theories that Republicans have been pushing for quite a while. Now they keep saying that, like. Oh, you know that the Democrats funded as dirty dossier from Christopher Steel and that's why there was an investigation into the into a Donald Trump and his campaign, and you know the Washington Post says this report will say: no absolutely not. This investigation was not started because of the dossier. These application for surveillance did not get approved because of any information in the dossier and that, while the dossier existed, and maybe some of the information the dossier was incorrect, none of the investigation into Donald Trump campaign happened because of Christopher Steel or the fucking dossier, and that is basically the foundation of the republican conspiracy that the Russia Investigation was a hoax. That was the foundation of that and this report could completely blowhole now
Looks like the original. I think the post broke. The story, I believe on Friday or time is basically been a flat circle, since we started groups reading at the crack of dawn, but I think it was Friday. The.
And the story wed with the FBI attorney. If I remember correctly, with the FBI, Tournay altering the document
and I get like I sort of understand from journalistic perspective. Why that's the case because that, like a FBI, employ doing something wrong and getting fired for it is quite a good news.
But the context of this is so important because
the actual news is the primary
in point of the prisoner of party over three years has been undermined by the inspectors.
Appointed by his attorney general right.
Right should be the end of that. But because, like it's like
new, like contacts is often more important than what is going to quote knew, but because what? But what was new here is going to sort of muddy up the variant port contacts at this report provides yeah, I mean that's and which is what they do for everything I mean. There's like. I think, there's trump is on record saying this abyss inspector general is everyone should respect his work? He does amazing work well if he blows a hole in the conspiracy theory. I don't know if he'll be saying that, although, like you said, we held cherry pick,
We want and just lie about it. That's what they do now. My mom, it's like Heaven, Mccarthy, who, on the day after someone testifying for the nation that there was a quid pro quo, Kevin Mccarthy, went out and said:
I enjoy the testimony. There was no quid pro quo, it's like if you can do,
I hate the term gas lighting by that's what's happening here I mean they're, not even the relevant trying anymore, to come up with lies that are believable anyway. That's that's that's,
rat commissioner, the question here, just as we talk about sort of Nunez and Japan
you know, I notice that the people like there was an element of like being in public life, where
someone had allegations about you or your office, your boss, you had to respond to questions about it in some way, shape or form ad
public? Its now just don't respond.
Like? There is no comment from
staff about this either like reporting requirements. It is this true, yes or no, and you
I have to say something right.
In that answer, you could devise you know the reader in the reporter could sword divine where it's going right. Did
confirm or deny it did they outright deny it today
Try to provide some sort of contacts with like, but now- and this is-
I think really something has changed since trumps. Come on the scene of the Republicans. Just don't respond to their borders. They don't wanna respond to.
And they have. They have decided to deal legitimize the non partisan media,
and the only legitimate media is fox and other rightwing outlets, and so because they ve legitimize the rest of the media and said that its biased and fake and out to get them just like Trump has said for the last couple years. They don't believe they have any kind of obligation to
to answer reporters questions and in the rare moments that they are on television, answering questions from non partisan media. Like you know, I don't usually watch the Sunday shows, but I have for the last couple weeks just to keep up with impeachment and mostly they
in just run circles around the hosts. You know even when the hosts are trying their best like. I am faced the nation to the Sunday Kelly and Conway
gets on their with Margaret Brennan and just lies for ten minutes straight. Nothing that she says resembles the truth at all and because Brennan's trying to get through all of her questions, you know she doesn't stop incorrect everything, and so these people figure. Well. I got five minutes on television
they're gonna have to cut away after that, so I can just keep lying and lying among lying in the Mets it and then I'm done and then there's no consequence for them.
I mean so. Obviously, some like Jake Tapir do pretty
although scenarios, but it is also the host an impossible position, because what are you doing? I intervenes theirs I mean you have to you have
be willing to get into a very uncomfortable exchange. That Republicans will then used to point out that you're some kind of a partisan hack, gray like if it or you have to decide. I'm gonna ask this
and about one thing and when they lie, I manage keep going and going in going on that one topic in that one lie and try to call them out for that and get rid of the rest of the questions that I was going to ask I mean, so you have to make that decision and I almost think thou be more useful, but I think maybe the most useful thing would be to not book congenital liars and your shows anymore. That's what is it
I do think the opting out of mainstream media ass, a political strategy is not something that's being talked about enough.
I know it doesn't video like they may
or conversations are having among reporters, but it's not showing up
like its is treated as if
they weren't there to take the cause, oppose a deliberate strategy not to answer any questions over a three year period. Yeah, it's it's it's pretty bad will they know what they know, that the public believes that the media is incredibly biased, that distrust of the media is an all time high, so they,
Don't think that there is any any downside to doing this, it's just like the White House deciding take care
so. The briefing and never you know we have a press secretary who's, never done a White House briefing right now, because they just don't they there's no punishment for spat,
not great, then I know its, not positive. Murder
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So, in the second part of the republican Counter, attack on impeachment is being led by June.
Sherry, Chairman Linsey Gram, who announced on Thursday that he'd be launching an investigation of his own into the Biden family and to give you more context, around Lindsey Grams history was Joe Biden. Here's a clip from an interview he did with Scott Conroy during.
His presidential campaign and twenty sixteen eighteen can admire Joe Biden as a person. This, probably you got a problem. As I heard it, you need to do some self evaluation. Gus was not like. I call them after bow died. Any basics said well Bow was my soul tat for a long time. He came to my ceremony and said some most incredibly heartfelt thanks. If anybody could ever say too, maybe
the nicest person I've ever met,
he is as good a man has got ever created. I mean what is this? What is the say about Lindsey, Graham Green did he's just her renders human being
Yeah, it's like how can one person be part say those things with
its was seemingly
through emotion a few years ago and be acting this way in this moment. I am I
just want everyone to understand. It is not as if Lindsey Gram had this relationship with Joe Biden and suddenly Joe Biden, there is a possibility that he was engaged in some kind of wrong doing and his family as well any think. Well, I have a good personal relationship with him, but this thing came up and I have to do my job as a public official and the socks, but that's the way. It is that's not what we're dealing with here. What Joe Biden is being accused of witches pressuring for the firing of a corrupt ukrainian prosecutor in
as part of the problem with how the present handle this, because they keep saying there's no evidence for this. There is no evidence of its not that there's no evidence for this is that, like from Barack Obama down through his entire administration through the global community, everyone's through every Trump Administration official who has testified before Congress to a person, every single one of
Has said that not only to Joe Biden do nothing wrong. Joe Biden did the right thing. The right thing by pressuring for the firing of a corrupt ukrainian prosecutor, he was correct,
I was corrupt. That's why the Obama administration wanted and fired. That's why three republican senators and torn
sixteen signed a letter in favour of what Joe Biden was doing in Ukraine Republicans and when he did it, it was public. Everyone knew at the time. Every Republican in Congress knew the Joe Biden had put pressure
to fire that prosecutor Shokhin everyone knew was happening and at the time everyone knew that Hunter Bind was on the board of policemen. It was public information and no one said a fucking word until Rudy in Trump tried to go, dig up the start in Ukraine and
Orson investigation to button. Everyone knew he did the right thing and Linsey Graham knew it too, and with that knowledge that this is all bullshit
The is now opening investigation into the Biden family, his good family friends, to tarnish him. That's what's happening to me
like you, don't like the entire buying conspiracy theory reminds me a lot of the Obama, birth or conspiracy, because
yeah is something that starts on. The forage is of the internet, gets picked up by Trump and the Republican Party and sort of the
structures of journalism may allow it to fester a bit because you're right, it is
like good for the reporters for saying there is no evidence to support every time. It comes up
and they ve to India. You know the non partisan media's on a very good job of that, but Europe,
It is not only is there no support in all of the evidence proves it false,
It certainly thing where you know Donald Trump or Russia.
Ball or drone course ie or some other Yahoo says. Barack Obama was born in Kenya, and you say what is now having to sport. That will know actually there's a giant
this evidence, including his fucking birth certificate. That says he was who was born in Hawaii and so
Actually like it. I they do thing it's important to go. One step further,
There's no evidence suggests well. There
improving it yet right, as opposed to the fact
and all of the evidence it became, which is quite substantial, proves the opposite. Well, and part of this is conflated with.
Bunch of people in the media and on the left saying well, you know it certainly was shady four hundred Biden to get this position on a board fur.
Nothing in getting paid all this money, and it's like that. Fine that has absolutely nothing to do with the allegations here, which is that, yes,
under was on the board, but then Joe Biden took an action that somehow decrease the chances that accompany that his son sat on would be investigated
when, in fact all the evidence suggests that when that prosecutor was fired, it increased the chances that worries me would be investigated, increase the chances,
And I don't know I don't I dont know if, if everyone has made this point enough, I don't know if the binding
champagne is made enough, though I sit there on twitter all the time talking about it. I've seen no Joe Biden say we did nothing wrong. I don't think it can. I don't think it's possible for it to be made too many times, because it continues to get lost in all of this. We have to disentangle two things: weather. What's the weather,
and was qualified to be on that board in the intentions of Burma and put him on that board in separate that from whether he thee.
Access it. He was theoretically being paid for gave him anything in the oven.
Is very strongly. It did not, since his father.
Made a very public push that put the company on
for his son, sat in greater legal, Geoffrey and end in case you didn't get that this was all a big game that Lindsey Graham, is playing here's this response today when he was confronted with. While you said all these wonderful things about Joe Biden than the past. What are you doing, and he said quote I like Joe Biden. All I can say is that Joe didn't pull any punches when he ran against Mccain. That's the way the system works were not going to live in a country where just one party gets investigated. What I just with thought was a stunning statement that has not got enough attention today that Bit Lindsey Grand basically just admitted oh yeah. This
This is politics, we're just doing this to try to smear Joe Biden as he tries to run for president because look, it was a tough campaign in a way to against John Mccain, and so you know, if you use the
Our of the federal government to smear political opponent- that's just the wave, that's just the way things work, that's basically what Lindsey, Graham is admitted and yet
ass, there were arguments disputes negative ads on both sides,
it's in the Obama Biden became Pelon camping. Yes, there
No criminal conspiracy, there was no use of taxpayers dollars to smear anyone. In fact, when a question
was raised by some about whether John Mccain was eligible for the presidency, because he was born in Panama, not comic. On the
actual? U S, soil, the President Obama and job,
I supported the notion that he was elsewhere for the presidency and how possibility ensure that to be the case yeah right. Let's,
pretend, let's not have
like it wasn't all hope and change in two thousand and eight there were fight spite, let's not pretending to the same things as they are fucking not well again, and this is what there this is. What the Republicans are counting on right is that voters believe and people believe that politics is rough and tumble and unfortunately, a lotta people believe politics is corrupt anyway, and they think it's all a game where everyone tries to smear each other and their hoping. The bake inflate traditional rules of engagement, where you run negative ads and say all kinds of bad things which happens and campaigns all the times, and people can complain about whether it's bad or not Irena, conflate, that with using the power of the federal government using the powers of your official office to get personal favours and to do political bidding as opposed to the public interest, which is the which is it. What's it core of this entire impeachment inquiry right now and
What scary about Woollens Graham is doing? Is it's not just on the trump anymore? It's not just Donald Trump anymore. Now, it's Wednesday Gram, its Devon newness. I mean we are having this whole fucking discussion in the media about well. Can Democrats convince any Republicans to vote with them on impeaching downturn? How do we convince the Republicans? We can't convinced the fucker.
Republicans, because some of them are in on the conspiracy
What are you talkin about all we're gonna get going to convince them to vote bill there? They're fucking com
this is right now their co conspirators we're going to convince them of anything you well, it's very important we did convince one of them
and they kicked him out of the party. It's an unanswerable question of hate him if he agrees with the Democrats and they ve, though either public and party it impeachment.
Is by partisan. There is bipolar support for impeachment. There is bi partisanship in Congress Beechwood because it just in a marsh. There is
partisanship in that country between a whole
the former Republican elected officials and never tramper types
is by partisan support for impeachment Kelly and Conway's own household.
I was just reading a grape he's in the new Yorker right,
before we start recording this bill welt, former republic and governor of Massachusetts,
also former Watergate lawyer, running against Trump now for the republican nomination and he's like, I literally couldn't conceive of a case that is more impenetrable than this one.
Having gone through Watergate and having been a Republican. Must it his life heavings at. I cannot conceive one. There are plenty of conservatives plenty of Republicans who believe that would Donald Trump did.
Peaceable! You don't have that on the other side. Just to be very clear,
in the twenty twenty republic, improve presidential primary half the candidates believed from should be impeached. The other half its trump I mean now we should ask you know, is their risk for Biden and all of this, because now we're talking not just about what grams gonna do in the Senate, but what's gonna happen in the Senate during a potential impeachment trial itself, and you can tell that one of the strategies that Trump and his republican defenders are going to use is we're gonna, put Joe Biden Hunter Biden on trial as opposed to
tromp, so you know, is there a risk and in what is what what can I do about it? I even with this whole process started. I thought I was pretty worried if I had been undermine campaign about having quite worried about how this we know whether this would damage
By its candidacy, whether it would affect in over here the person
should have elect ability of binds like debility among democratic parameters.
We ve been talking about this nonstop for two months now and theirs,
suggestion that that has had any impact on the democratic primary I'd.
Now, as the nominee like worry about, it
thing there is risk when you get out of bed in the morning
but it seems like Denmark
primary voters at least
they may choose not to over by and for other reasons, but there's nothing that I've seen yet. That suggests that binds being dragged into this impeachment issue has affected him or will affect him going forward.
Primary. There is an open question about.
Impact impacts. It'll have among some number of general election voters
dependence republican Lino Republicans, who could potentially vote for democratic nominee
we know what is in fact I have with them, and I think didn't have time will tell on that, but there I think there should be
There should be more concerned, because this is basically rerunning that twenty sixteen play of trying to make everyone seems alma at least almost ass, bad ass trump.
Yeah. I worry about it a lot. For that reason I mean tonight they were the other reason I worry about his. I think that these things end up being cumulative over time.
And you might not know right away, but you know over time you start seeing your favorite billowy ratings decline gradually and suddenly. You know now look Hillary Clinton at this stage in the race,
Was more unpopular, have lower favorability ratings than any of our any of the democratic candidates? Do right now, so they
already done a number on her at this point, but
does it mean that the more
Anyone who watches Fox NEWS, anyone who gets their information from the conservative ecosystem is going to hear that Biden is not just a bad democratic candidate, but this you know corrupt politician, who probably did some crimes right, like that they're gonna hear that over and over and over again and that so that's the whole republican base not like mine, was gonna, get a bunch of public and votes anyway. But you know in a close election everything matters and I think if I was the Biden campaign, I was heard of Mount and aggressive paid media campaign at some point that at least defends him against some of this stuff. But I don't know they also don't have that much money in their running into primary sets can hard to do now.
Yeah. There definitely going to need to be some paid media push back on this, and also that there is an operative like there is both risk. An opportunity here for his candidacy
Is he peers bet on Elect ability and the great lake
What are the great pieces of evidence that that he could
The be the most likely was the fact that
the entire Trump administration was so scared of running and stem that they engage in a worldwide cream.
Conspiracy to stop him from being the nominee yeah yeah, that's rare, so this brings us to what the Democrats in common
should do next, while shift has not rule out the possibility of more hearings hit. His intelligence committee is currently riding up a report that it will send to the House Judiciary Committee, which will then decide whether or not to draft articles of impeachment against the president's. That's what's happening right now. How concerned, are you about
The fact that we still have not gone testimony from Bolton Mulvaney, maybe even partners if federal prosecutors are holding on to some of his evidence for trial. Obviously, the House Committee has some
video photographic, audio overruns evidence whatever it may be, but even with partners there might be a little delay here. What do you think about all this? I have been a advocate for a while now of the most fulsome impeachment hearings possible, with as many witnesses as possible, getting touching on many different.
Elements of trumps, corruption and criminality as possible, but I'm starting to change my opinion on that. Given how open and shut this case is and how everything has gone, the right way for Democrats, every witness was even the once. The Republicans Cobb were devastating to trumps case that, like the crime, is
proven a hundred ways from Sunday and
just one, to start to wonder whether there are diminish
in return like, if you told me, you could get more vainly and Bolton in here the weekend after Thanksgiving. Yes, definitely do that right if you could get Giuliani and here the weekend after Thanksgiving even for a deposition, if not actual testimony in
black. Definitely do that. If you're going to have to be involved in a Supreme court case for six months,
June answer that question. I just don't know that you'll be able to hold the nations attention long enough
to receive the sort of political communications pay off of the actual impeachment vote itself? Yeah? I I agree with that.
If we follow this debate with the brain boiler, who believe something different ways that they should end in look or brain would say, as I do, that you should wait six months for a court case breaking you should at least try and set a deadline for yourself that if the court's don't decide by a certain date, then you just say
ok, we're gonna go with what we have and I get that and I don't think there's harm in you know. Trying to supply
Bolton they already have a subpoena autumn ovine, who, just you know, basically has defied it under there's harm. But I also think if the Democrats set up the idea that they need these witnesses to complete their case, then, if they dont get them, which is very possible. Suddenly it seems like oh well, democratic Democrats, don't have it and, like you said this is an open and shut case. We have it we have
the evidence and I dont know now. I do think it's important, because a lot Republicans are saying you know it's like the will heard defence. Well, he did something
I disagree with on foreign policy, but it certainly not unimpeachable in the way you counter them
part. One way you can do that is they well. This is part of a pattern and look at all the other things.
Damn right. I mean this, and this goes to a question of not just more witnesses, but do you bring in other impenetrable offences is part of a pattern. The guy consistently is corrupt. He consistently tries to get personal favours using the powers of the presidency.
Set of using them for the public good over and over and over again, and you can list a whole bunch of episodes of this. So I do think the pattern of behaviour is important, but this also assumes that we're trying to prove this I've we approve it in
court to a jury of Donald Trump peers, and instead you have a fucking jury of loyalists Trump, loyalists conciliate if, if Republican
I'm going to believe the evidence that you know,
crowds of already laid out if they're, not gonna, believe the testimony of Trump Administration officials themselves, they're, not gonna, believe anything. They're, not gonna, believe a
audio recording we're down from says, hey, I'm gonna go bribed the Ukrainians to make sure we smear Joe Biden they'd make up excuses for that. So what are we doing?
what would a jerk a jury of Donald Trump peers be like who has met,
hawk again picketing Roscoe, though like unspoken, cabin, and I guess and look like there, you know we are in this situation. Where is he is committed
he is abusing his power more more. All the time we haven't even talked about- and I know Tommy's going to talk about it more on policy of the world this week, the fact that you know Trump has basically basically or
Did the defence secretary to allow a Navy seal who was accused and then convicted of at least one war crime to keep his status interfered in military just
and basically thee
secretary of the Navy has been fired now because he wanted
to run his own military justice to instil discipline in the ranks and make sure that someone who was guilty of taking a photo posing next to a dead body. A seal wanted to get to make sure that this guy faced zero punishment whatsoever, even though his fellow seals
free as long as your loyal to me as long as you go on right, wing, radio and start saying that Donald Trump is great and
The military and you commit a war crime. You can get off Scot free as long as your loyal to me
As long as you go on right wing, radio and start saying that Donald Trump is great and the Democrats are criminals most messed up, if you are, if you were trunk, I feel loyal to me. You in the military can do anything and get away with it. That's where we are right now
surely even worse than that, because this isn't some without even like a perverted.
Principle of trumps. He
Spending to the pleas and requests of peat hex F?
a fox personality who is essentially Steve, Deuces under study
This is why this is his call. Celeb. Is the host of job is doing a favour for the host of Foxen friends a weekend. Its is warble. Is horrible,
one last question on all this, so we are heading towards the judiciary. Committee will receive a report from Schiff they'll drop articles of impeachment. You know this vote will go to the whole house. The house will vote on impeachment. If the house, in fact, in peaches, Donald Trump it will go to the Senate, there will be a trial. John Roberts will preside over the trial. Various house members democratic US members will present
The case they will be the prosecutors and then Trumbull have his defence. How are you feeling about the perspective trial like what should Democrats be doing differently,
if anything differently. What kind of how should there messaging evolve in this? You know. I have this sense. Just sort of reading the coverage this weekend and seeing where the Republicans are going that their headed tor
look not only is Donald Trump Innocent, but look at all these Poles Democrats.
Opinion, really hasn't, move that much no unreal
cares. The Democrats have failed. No Republicans have decided in Congress to join them.
And so what are we really doing is actually gonna be a big big victory for Donald Trump, because the Democrats have failed at their at moving public opinion. How do how to shoot them?
handled Wabi that's been concern from beginning it's one of the things they gave. I think both of us pause about pursuing impeachment in
immediate aftermath of the Mueller report, is that
the overwhelming. Most likely scenario is that the Senate on a party
basis will acquit Trump and
There is another question about how the media will handle that. How will that peace? Is that a victory for
I mean yes in the sense that he's not being dragged out of office, yet it's a victory by. Is it really?
like there is real concern that I think the thing for Democrats is to continue to frame throughout.
The whole process, the
larger more important question is it ok frame
president to use the power of their office in taxpayer funded security assistance to try to rig in american election
If you think that is, ok photo quit, if you do not doubt trumpeter be removed from US
speak like you have to frame the question and not and much like Schiff and all the Democrats in the house did a great job is don't get pulled down into the bullshit
the Republicans editors senators. Are there not to be as absurd as
on a whole is Jim, Jordan and Nunez, and a bunch of these other yahoos who were on the intelligence Committee
But there are gonna, be people who are going to be performative. Assholes, like Tom Cotonou, Josh, Holly or hold on to other people, are looking to shine
star entranced republican Party, and you can't get dragged it too, that the second thing is
use this as an opportunity to put tremendous pressure on Corey gardener. Susan Collins, Tom tell US junior
the more authentic sally and the rest of the Republicans who are running in blue.
Purple states in twenty twenty they
if they are going to end up doing what is best
their party over the country make them pay a political price for it in the moment in everyday between now until the election. Yet look, I public opinion polls already show that about half the country believe President should be impeach in room from office. That is extraordinarily significant on its own. That is higher public approval for impeachment than in any president, the past, except Nixon right before he resigned, that's where we are already, and now we are in an extremely polarized environment, where I would be shocked if any Republican who gets their information from the conservative ecosystem media ecosystem believe the giant Donald Trump should be impeached. I would be shocked by that, because that's not the information there getting all the time, so I don't think we should expect public opinion to move all that much except it's the most polarized and in history, but I do think this is always been about. Some of these republican,
senators who are vulnerable and some of these swing states, and we need to make very clear that a vote to acquit Donald Trump is a vote to green light, foreign interference in the twenty twenty election and as a vote to green light. The idea that the president can use the power of his office to destroy any one who challenges his power, that's what this is about, and I do think that the Democrats should make those points over and over again it's about rigging an election, and it's about the president, using the power of his office to destroy any one who challenges and that's what he's doing right now and if he gets away with us. If they think that's ok, then what we are saying in this country is
When are you get into office and you have some power and you have some control and influence over federal dollars, federal agencies, people who work for the for the government law enforcement, the CIA anything you can use that to destroy
the career of anyone who challenges you. Even if it's a conspiracy and we're saying that's, okay in America now and you know what, if the Republicans say, that's okay, then I'm not going to regret conducting this impeachment trial for a second. I will not regret it for a second, I don't even care if it's been unpopular right now. This is about the sanctity of our election.
Our democracy, and there is nothing more important than that. Those great should we senator it's just you know
over the weekend? I was just like reading all the stuff, and it's like it is. It is pretty depressing and a little bit scary that we are sort of careening towards this, because I do think look if you know if, if he, if he has acquitted, which of course he probably will be when you, when you see all these republicans talking unless we talked about, if he is it's going to be bad, but we still have a chance to get rid of it in and twenty,
money, but it sort of makes the twenty twenty election as if it wasn't already the most important election ever even more critical, because if this man who we know committed these crimes is
exonerated and then wins a man and David Puff has been sameness. Imagine imagine what he will do when he never has to face voters again and a second term. He has for years never having to face accountability or voters. Again, it's pretty scary and it should scare everyone into you know getting off their asses and working there, Bert their hearts out for whoever we nominated as the democratic Domini.
All right. We'll talk about two thousand and twenty speaker that over the weekend, New York City mayor, Michael Bloomberg, officially announced his candidacy for president with a video and a very expensive ad campaign. Just this week he's
over thirty million dollars and a hundred media markets across two dozen, mostly super Tuesday states, to put this in context. The current
to spend in the democratic primary Billy near Tom's. Dire is spending one point: two million on television ads and every other Canada spending half a million or less than half a million verses, thirty million in a way.
In his announcement. Bloomberg argues he's the right person to take on Trump and I believe we have a quick clip from his.
Manette, there's an american waiting to be rebuilt or everyone without health insurance is guaranteed to get it in every one who, like stairs, can go ahead and keep it where the wealthy will pay more in taxes, and this
Brooklyn Middle Class will get their fair share.
Jobs that just allow you to get by will become jobs that lets you get a white blue for president jobs, creator, leader problem solver. It's going to take all three to build back a country.
Dear what do they were the video other videos,
was good in the sense that it takes his by
graffiti and distills it and a pretty authentic way to a set of issues that would be of most interest to a democratic primary electorate which is not
An easy considering he was a republican like three years ago.
Here's the republic, and I guess I guess, there's actually longer than that. I think he switch in his last term from republican, independent somebody
they republican mayor of New York, city
billion air owner of a media company ah and is now running the democratic primary. And so we know that that's a marketing challenge, to say the least.
Yeah and look you can tell who their audiences for this as it is not democratic primary activists. It is not progressives, it is people who are moderate and progressive, leaning who think
I thought you have heard a Bloomberg. I think he was already was a successful mare, rich guy on the business and a look. I guess he did stuff on climate which he did on gun control, which he did, and I like that
You know he's rich, but he says in this add he's gonna raise taxes, and you know he's gonna give an option. You know to go in indirect, swipe it Medicare for all, but said he you know is for,
adoption in the video, and so that's the kind of body, and these people are probably less engaged in politics. The question is how many of them are there right, like and in the other big bet he's making he
as part of a strategy is again. These ads are running in Super tuesdays states. He skipping the first for primary states. He skipping the debates because he's not taking contributions and to get into the debates. You have to have a certain number of donors so because he's not doing that is, can escape the debates and he's betting. Will these very sleek well produced adds be enough for all these people and supervision
these states to certainly say yeah. I like this guy and I'm gonna, take a chance on them. Even if I don't really know that much and I haven't seen him in the debates, I think
it is a long shot for Bloomberg.
The reasons we suggested he's getting in late. He if the former Republic end
you have some real challenges with the aftermarket community based on law enforcement policies that were in place when he was the mayor of New York. Like
real challenges, but if there were a path, this is the path it is, don't get so
then in their early states, wait wait it out when it sort itself out
and if, for some reason, Biden were to falter in those early states and
maybe only Sanders and Warren make it out, and you ve set yourself up for the potential to be.
The moderate alternative. I don't need not electable the moderate alternative to this other group in this sort of bring in
what remained of the Biden Coalition or what remains of the Buddha Judge Coalition and ended. The thing is this: is it hath
only available to a millionaire
I guess he is advertising campaign, is one thirty, two thirty four million dollars, which I think is like some little ass. Also me Louis, like the equivalent of writing a thriller check for the average American.
And to give you a sense of this sense of scale. This is from Shane Goldmacher near Towns York reporter that if you
watched the five pm newscast all week.
In on embassy and your hometown of US interests. You would see twenty sixty seconds, Limburg.
That is an ungodly sum of money
he is running more ads,
each of these markets, all around the country, then
almost any Democrat is running and the mind market in the most important state- and they are, though, is the first stage in the democratic progress as it is an I got, the sum of money will it work,
open question. I mean it's a it's a long red, that's the big question is: does this work, I mean we. We we have seen that Tom Steyer's, a significant ad spend, did get him onto the debate stage. It did get him pass the threshold and polling, and suddenly you saw him pop up in a couple pulls in early states at like three four five, six percent
higher we started than he is now, and the thing that Michael Bloomberg has going for him over Tom's dire is he's much richer as much richer, billionaire Tom's, dire
and he's got higher name, I'd, even Tom's dire for the thing that the thing it say about all of this, though, is bloom.
Does not. He is
surrounded by some really smart, very data oriented put a cooperatives like they definitely see a path. I think that they think there
probably clear eyed about the narrowness of that path with they. They see.
And they wouldn't have done this without believing that there was an investment that investment here could pay off.
That later this is not a.
Like. I'm not saying Bloomberg does not have a large. He go everyone in politics,
Equally billion are some politics, have a larger go by.
walked away from the possibility of running many times before, because he didn't think he could win and he made a different decision this time, and that suggests that
thing in their data shows a path and, as we should at least thing about it, I think the New York based
media complex tends to overrate his chances by it. We shouldn't underwrite them, either yeah look, you can, you can buy adds, but you can't buy enthusiasm and that's basically there about right now that that you don't really need a lot of enthusiasm or grassroots support to when the nomination and the presidency and that you can just sort of message to the are part of the electorate and maybe the more disengage part of you,
trade and that's gonna, be enough- and you know I don't it's quite a bit to make- because I dont think clearly. Enthusiasm alone is not enough to make you present aid states. But if you look at the people who have won nomination, the presidency, all of them have some sort of fan base and we have yet to see the Bloomberg fan base materialise. Perhaps we will, how do you think is
He could change the race for any other candidate. I mean, I think, that's really. I've tried
Think about this in the context of Reno.
All that you all the candidates fighting for
in some ways to get to fifteen percent and four delegates or whatever, and I think there
He'll thing is, as we do not know the answer to that until after probably South Carolina
It just it's a wholly different thing based on
The candidates are out there. I think them
likely scenario is. It affects no one right.
And all this money
stays in the low single digits that support
it is dispersed among two or three candidates
no. If its
it's a two person race coming out of the early
It's between Biden and born
I didn't sanders whatever else and then Bloomberg getting.
Four percent- that four percent could be decisive.
Are we mostly coming from Biden
If it's three candidates, less so is really
what we really need to know who that who makes it out
We states with any chance of humility delegates going forward to know whether Bloomberg gets there, but it's like that
If you have to see to really be specifically, those boomers gotta go from where he is now too,
while fifteen percent almost everywhere and that's hard yeah, that's a hard thing to do, even with all those millions and billions
I think I think right now he serving as a arguably effective punching bag for Bernie Sanders, analyse beforehand because he's making their case for them that a billion urgent by democracy and of their their whacking him and I'm sure, that's that's helping them sure. You know him. He may be making a mere peat and Joe Biden a little bit nervous and sees you know trying to get into their land or, namely, clover char. But, like you said, I think if you write like let's, let's give the ad campaign a couple weeks and let's see what happens in these early primary school, it's really just
to protect the stuff now, which is why we don't do it. Ok, when we come back, we will have dance interview with acronyms terror. Miguel
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to day. I am now joined by the founder in sea of acronym, a leading, progressive digital strategy. Nonprofit tear Mcgowan. There are welcome back to pod, save America,
and thanks for having me back, of course,
since your last on the show in the spring Akron
is another. Seventy five million dollar digital campaign on behalf the Democrats
What can you tell us about why you launch that and gives an update on your progress
absolutely so, we the programme that we launched out of action,
and are affiliated Pack called Packard. Him is called for is enough and ends ass, David Plus, we know you know very, very well.
Joins me in and rolling this campaign out and in code sharing it with me. So, and you know,
you and everybody else at parts. If America than
you know sounding the alarm as have we had acronym for awhile about really the unprecedented spending the Trump card,
he has been doing online and as if
right now. The trunk happiness bent over twenty million dollars on Facebook and Google alone, and they really are running a general election campaign and we ve never seen spending like this this, the early or in the ways that they're doing it. So
after sounding the alarm for a really long time. We we really felt that it wasn't enough to to just kind of b, be raising the alarm bells and talking about Trump spending, but to really make sure that we also on the left, word deriving
formation facts and narratives to voters in the battleground states every single day where
getting their information online. So you know,
One thing that I think can get easily misconstrued is that I really don't think that it's about matching Trump dollar for dollar the way.
Traditional political consultants, think about kind of television spending or points in a computer
the way, we really believe that he, even if Trump wasn't spending any money online, because
If the way the information ecosystem exists today and where people
their information online. We should be doing this anyway. We should be renewed.
Ending voters of the states of the election and getting them the information about the corruption in this administration, everything
all day- and so you know are alarm- is heightened
by what trumps campaign is doing and able to do while we're in a competitive primary. But but honestly, this is something
we should be doing anyway.
Expand on that a little more. When you talk about the way the information ecosystem is today, what you mean
absolutely sue. You know four for decades. In decades- and there were very few trusted channels where people went to get their news and information, mainly television, radio and newspapers, and and now we live in a digital age where, where media and news and information is distributed across so many more channels, end
people of all ages and Anne and backgrounds are getting their information online and on their mobile phones and on social media, and
become a lot more about a passive expire
and where you're, you know, your scrolling there, your news either your instagram feeds, are twitter,
and in in your really taking in. What's given to you on these platforms from your friends and and people, you trust her. Influencers in your
kind of dough.
Two specific websites or or newspapers, to get that information, and so the way at platforms like Google and face the path
changed. The media environment in in a lot of really disruptive way is right, foreseeing seeing
A lot of traditional media companies and publications not be able to keep up or make the revenue they need to stay in business. These plants,
have monetize our attention right. We're spending so much time on them that you
You actually really have to spend money to to get your message across even to people who, like your facebook page
follow you on Twitter and so an trump,
and his campaign really understand that, and so they not only you know, have the bully, pulpit and drive a narrative. Tat gets picked up by the press, but they also pay
I guess I hung on the flames of their lives and misinformation by putting money behind those ads and behind that
intent on social media platforms and for a really long time we just we haven't been doing the same thing on our side. We ve kind of
continue to rely on the traditional media and an earns media too
to drive information and make sure that that folks, her are getting reached with with
information, and that's just not the case we have to
a lot more deliberate because of the way social me.
It has changed the way we consume information. What
hypothetically. The trunk campaign was spending no money and you guys are other democratic and progressive entities were not spending money on the sort of digital campaign you're talking about
with the information ecosystem, as it exists, benefit one side or the other absolutely, and so,
If, if, if we
spending any money at all. If neither side were spending any money. Frankly, at all on social media platforms, people.
It still be getting their news and information there and
so the information that they would be getting worse
publishers and incumbent.
Politicians and candidates who have large basis of support or follow,
on those platforms so trump
obviously and invested heavily in Facebook since twenty fifteen his
campaign and of course in
being in the White House in having the bully Papa. He has an enormous audience and reach as
Publishers like Fox news and bright bar that amplified his message so
Then, if we weren't spending any money at all and they weren't spending any money at all, they would still
able to reach a lot of people, and
you know they wouldn't be able to target people who don't like their pages, but because they have these built up
science is when they post something in their audience, sees it and engages with it or shares it. Then
expands that reach- and so
putting money behind continent. Social media platforms allows you to targeted and ensures you break through, because that's how the platforms work right now. But if you didn't
do that you have to rely on your existing audience and Trump just
as a huge competitive advantage over the left, because we don't have
the candidate right now, we're not I mean we don't have a nominee, and so we don't have a centre of gravity. Our leadership. That's that's able to kind of drive a consistent narrative to a large audience. The way that Trump does
Over the weekend. The Wall Street Journal reported that your effort, the with acronym acronyms programme, is being helped by
James Barnes who was the Facebook employ who is embedded in the trunk campaign in someone the trunk came in
for tourists are what are called envy Keaton
about the decision to bring James on board in and what, if any way you could share with us that you ve learned from him in his experience. Yeah
we're so James
was not an obvious candid,
your work- and I am obviously so he he was here. He wasn't it
look and is now a registered Democrat? He also was the Facebook employee that was embedded in the trunk
pain, as you mentioned, which you know was not his choice per se?
at the time he was doing his job and there
he had democratic counterparts, one of which is also full time an acronym and has been for a while to tender Mesopotamia, and she worked on the democratic sign work closely with me when I was running
what priorities and twenty sixteen so the way that it
when it came about. Is that an James had it, you know, are real
person all and motivation and reason after the election results to two to one.
About how he could
do whatever he could in in his power and in his control with the expertise he has about Facebook and and and political messages
and an advertising on line too
Trump out of office, and I think
no people's motivations are something I think about a lot. Whether people are motivated by money or power or different things,
James really spent a lot of time. Thinking about the implications of the work he did and not that you know it was there the reason that Trump one you know. I think that there are so many factors involved without win, but he felt a risk.
Its he he personally voted for.
Larry Clayton. He was personally really
really shocked, as many of us were after the election. But of course had this more personal experience being a part of the other side
and while that that meant that when I first heard about James, I had no interest in meeting him
For my own personal reasons of how hard I and so many of my colleagues and friends porter our time
our hearts and our lives into making sure Hillary Clinton would be to the president
it took some time by
I was really interested in intrigued in in in his
background and in knowing, if he was
He was being honest. Honestly, I was curious, and so I you know I I decided that it was worth the conversation and James, and I had many many many conversations before I brought him on board and built a lot of time.
With him and realise that his motivations work, your he, he very much
to do whatever he can in his control to get trump.
In, and that is how I feel
That is how everyone an acronym feels, and he brings a lot of really interesting experience and knowledge and expertise to our team, and we feel really grateful to have him on board how
You described to allay person the difference between how Trump used Facebook Anti doesn't sixteen and how Democrats did well
it's? I would say that it comes down to kind of, but the culture of the camp.
Means and something I
about a lot is there.
The similarities between President Obama,
president tramp in and even Bernie Sanders, each of their first campaigns for president there's there's a common approach that they all took
that I think, is really interesting and none of them were the obvious candidates.
None of them had an obvious path,
They all were disruptive to the status quo in
of different ways and they all really empowered risk taking.
And I think,
ass men and innovation in in Digital out,
each and organizing and communication to build movements frankly and
I think that when you are the underdog and you do not have
clear path, especially that candidate running for
for national political office, you
to try everything you ve gotta, throw everything at the wall and
that is that is where innovation is usually born, and so I think that what happened
the term campaign is that they did not have a clear path.
They used every tool and channel available to them and and
and very quickly and that they could raise a lot of money and identify supporters when they had no idea where to start on Facebook,
and so that meant that they invested even more and Facebook, and I think because
So many of us in the Democratic Party, including myself, who worked on President Obama's election campaign on the digital team in two thousand and twelve-
because we were really known as the ones who drove a lot of innovation in the digital space when it came to campaigning, I think,
we rested a little bit on our laurels. I think
we you know took for granted that these,
firms were changing so quickly and that the other side, especially trumps,
campaign was, was you know
experimenting more and taking more risks, and, frankly, just pouring more money into these platforms
and so in large part. I dont think that we have all our playbook as much as we could or should up, and I say that feeling a great deal of responsibility for my own role in my own position in twenty sixteen, and so I do think that an
You know when you suffer a great loss or you're an underdog. You are
compelled out of necessity to try things differently, and so I dont think that they had any. You know dark, banter or or some you know rocket science strategy. I just think that day they needed to take risks, and then they put money behind the things that they found that were working and not that ended up giving them somewhat of a competitive advantage over the world.
A few months? I guess there's been this larger conversation.
Among Democrats and progressives about Facebook?
advertising sort of sparked by facebooks decision to not fact check the ads from politicians. So you you know if you
You believe that tramples more likely than a. Why fix for someone to do it and then we,
that United Europe are about eight from spending advantage on Facebook and be the innovations that they made in two thousand and sixteen it
It sounds appealing to some that Facebook would
Allah, twitters lead and ban political avatar.
Given a very outspoken opponent of that idea-
can you explain to why Facebook Benny Plutocrats would be bad, would help trump and hurt Democrats
yeah absolutely, and I want to say, I want to start and be really really clear that
I think, one of the biggest dangers and threats to our democracy and certainly to Democrats Prospect of taking back
power in and getting trump out of office.
November is is the spread of misinformation and lies, and
the way that misinformation and spreading is incredibly complicated. It is a complicated problem, and so it's going to require complex
it nuance solutions, and so on,
think, while everybody is quick to find a silver bullet to make sure that we are we,
regulating and eliminating the spread of
information online. It's
fortunately not going to be as simple as any one policy change most
because a lot of misinformation spreads organically,
is that I just described with with with China
rules and bronze and candidates who have really large followings on these social media platforms. They don't even know
to put money behind
is to really get those to spread, because.
Often times it starts with. You know a meme or it starts being seated out by a network of of organizers online and then it in it, and then it spread like wildfire because it drives so much engagement. So one thing: that's
important to note is that, even if all of the social media platforms and technology platforms like Google and Facebook band
political advertising on their platforms. It would not stop the spread
This information on their platforms- I think that's really important to know so
twitter came out in very you know: righteous
black way about banning political adds, number
line. Most political advertisers and campaigns do not spend money or significant.
Sums of money on Twitter, because it's really an influence or space, you can
Influenza narrative, you can, you can drive a narrative there, but you're not really reaching most of the american people, that's not where their stuff.
Their time, and so,
It didn't hit their bottom line, and yet it made them. You know it was. It was
I think a very positive move from them from a pr perspective, but it applied pressure on platforms that that all
much more powerful than twitter at at reaching voters in
in reaching people across this country. So
What Google has done now in
essentially limiting targeting keep up its capabilities, indifferent tools for political advertisers, one it again
won't eliminate misinformation or the spread of misinformation across Google channels and
properties and add networks and in two
it will also have,
a really negative in and potentially dangerous impact on, the ability.
A grass roots organisations and campaigns to bill.
And communicate with their supporters
to raise money online. Every on Facebook, that is, that is an online fundraising appeal from
small or in surgeon candidate.
A campaign that is those are tied
this political adds so
it's really important that people understand, and we know
the broad, still still shaped, shifting definition of political adds, as defined by these platforms that are not regulated
also you know how how political ads are being used to really derive grass roots, support and fund, raising, which essentially
democratizing our campaigns more than we ve seen before before those existed. So it just
I think that it is a complicated problem that requires complicated solutions, and I think people it makes
The people are very quick to try to you, know lobby or demand what sounds like a silver bullet solution, but
just not and so more than anything else, what we wanted to do is try to provide some context in new wants to that conversation that yes,
need to get rid of misinformation line. That's gonna take a lot of
a lot of work in a lot of time in a lot of thoughtful and discussion. One thing
Facebook could immediately is closed. Their loophole.
Allows politicians to lie in advertisements so no
Other political advertiser, including acronym in tackling him our organizations are
To lie, we are behold into being fact checked for every advertisement we place on those platforms. We believe that candidates and political,
elected officials should be held to that very same standard, and that is a very simple loophole that Facebook good clothes that their unwilling to do, and I
that's also adding two to this debate, the where
to explain this to people and in a way
I is less eloquent than yours was, but is that Facebook,
or Google and wherever else banning political adds would limit the ability of the democratic,
how many to respond to the information that's already spreading like wildfire on these platforms
and it would limit their ability to raise grass roots dollars to be able to compete with trumps war, chest and infrastructure
that's really equally important to me as getting information and facts to voters at the same clip as they are spreading lies and misinformation is the fact that
we are. We are the party of of an incredibly diverse and an end.
The ordinary election
We have power in numbers on our side if we can communicate to them and turn them out in the election next year, and in that
also means getting our candidate, the resources that they need to compete. And so I think that's just an important piece of the conversation. That's been missing as well,
Don T you up to pitch are listeners who to Sup,
or your efforts.
But in doing so, can you tell us the scariest thing that you ve seen the Trump campaign doing on
advertising shore, so
our teams. Don't we
too much focused on on what trumps campaign is, is doing online and who their reaching and how and too
please give me,
a great deal of anxiety and the first?
for how long and the term
campaign has been at this work, spending money and collecting data about their supporters and finding other likely supporters in the battleground states. It's not.
For fund raising and and and having a big email list to fund off of the term.
Campaign has really
essentially mind an enormous amount of data already
is going to make them more effective at targeting both their supporters and turning them out, but also potentially spreading lies and misinformation to our potential supporters online that
Diana finding do supporters right, yeah and finding new supporters- absolutely
If we believe you know I dont have. I dont have proved to back this up other brought pastels and pretty pretty
fair and about anything, is Fox news. Interviews back
We believe that they are actually identifying likely supporters and registering them,
I a brand new people who ve never voted before. I've never been part of the process,
we're very registering to vote and will turn out as Trump supporters in states like Wisconsin
so TAT in Michigan that that we know could really come down to a very small number of votes in the elections of that. That's really scary. To me, the other thing that we're seeing that I
is only going to get worse
over the next coming months is
smaller audiences voters with with persuasive messages
in the battleground states, too,
to build support for trump among these audiences, so the examples that I've been giving is it you know reaching,
Venezuela experts in Florida with spanish language adds about their bold position,
what's happening in Venezuela right now. They administrations position targeting
different voters with messages about bills they passed and how you know. This is what it takes like. No more, MR nice guy right. This is how we change Washington, because I think
of trumps strongest,
August messages is actually the most disingenuous one he has, which is that he's there to drain the swamp, and he is not
emblematic of the corruption that that that she talks about being seen on both sides in DC when
is literally the most corrupt president we ve ever had in this country, but that is
since that resonates with people, and it is something that they drive a consistent narrative around and then and then really kind.
Get surgical with how they communicate that two people who they know it will resonate with dirt
Thank you so much. How can our listeners support your efforts?
in so many ways. So one when we launched for is enough, and we did it. We we launched it through our pack. It's really important to us that, while of course I funder his to make sure we have the resources we need that
This is a space where people can get involved and contribute their time, their small dollar donations and their voices wall
we while we are in the midst of a primary. So for everybody who are things I eighty over, what trump is able to do and build, and the voters he's able to talk to you right now, we're still focused on a primary. This is a space for,
You can lend your support. You can lender small door donations. You can buy merchandise that we have, but also,
just using your voice and making sure that we are all
we are all in in unison. Community
eating as loudly and every single day we can about the stakes of this election and how corrupt dissident
Situation is and how he is broken. Promises to people that took a chance on him, and so before is enough
has a simple cited
for dot org and
then go there to find out more and you can buy swag
we have impeachment pins and t shirts
and am, and we're gonna be rolling, more content out, but also to your listeners in particular, because these
folks are paying attention and and and they care deeply about, the sticks at this election is do not think that
because maybe you don't live in a battleground state or were you dont
The ability to write, Milly back big checks to organisations doing this work is that just me,
out there on your own social media channels. Every day is really important, and I think that what we
We have to remind people that the other
side theirs? They are
a smaller group of voters and then our base
They can be louder and that can in
once the narrative in that can really influence the election, and so we ve gotta get really loud and we ve gotta be consistent.
And we ve got a focus on on on the
the shared mission that we all have, which is getting Donald Trump out of office, so would love.
Encourage folks to help donate, be a part of our campaign, but also just and you can use
hashtag for is enough to make sure that your team
king about the stakes of this election every day in your own voice, because that really will matter Tara. Thank you so much and we want
are we talking you again soon, as his campaign plays out? Thank you didn't think he's
for everything you guys to keep folks informed, really appreciate it.
Thanks to terror for joining us today and Happy Thanksgiving Dan. Yet you have everything is giving to evidence, given everyone
as we all will see after the break
pod. Save America is a product of cricket media. The senior producers, Michael Martinez, our sister,
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Carolyn rest in time you so mediator and came off production support into our digital team, Eliza Cone, Normal Coney and Yell freed in my will camp who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.
Transcript generated on 2020-02-09.